The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Nerd Sesh - Summer League Takeaways: Wembanyama struggles, Chet impresses

Episode Date: July 9, 2023

The nerds react to Victor Wembanyama’s struggles in his Summer League debut for the San Antonio Spurs. Then, they break down performances from newcomers like Brandon Miller, Amen Thompson, Scoot Henderson and Chet Holmgren before diving into the ramifications of Damian Lillard demanding a trade to the Miami Heat. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The nerves is where it's at. Welcome everybody back into NerdSash. As always, I'm Carson Brever, and alongside me is Logan Camden. And today we are coming to you all from Summer League here at the Blue Wire Studios in Los Angeles. Vegas. We've gotten a chance to watch a ton of really fun basketball these last couple of days. And we're going to talk about a lot of the most exciting young players that we have seen.

And we have to start, Logan, of course, with Victor Wenbanyama, who has been the talk of the town and had a highly anticipated debut. It was a great environment until Wemby actually started playing. And then I think let a lot of people down. So a disappointing summer league debut from him, what did you take away and how concerned are you about what we saw from Wemby? It was definitely disappointing to say the least, but I don't really think the Spurs set him up for a lot of success, Carson. You see a lot of isolation, a lot of perimeter initiating from Wemby, and I just don't think long term. That's where he's going to be best served. I think you need to initiate a lot more stuff on the low block.

With a guy as big as Wemby, you're just always going to be attacking a drastic size mismatch, which will either you can get an easy post fade, post hook, something like that, or you're drawing doubles, which enables him as a playmaker. I think a lot of people overreacted and were really disappointed. Yeah, it's encouraging that Wembe has all these tools and that his max could be really special and unstoppable. But you're just not setting up for success. He's driving in a lot of crowded paints, a lot of set defenses, and he's taking a lot of tough shots. I think that if you're initiating with him out of screens, out of post-up, stuff like that,

it'll just lead to easier, more conducive offense. Yes, I was disappointed. But I think a lot of things compounded in that game. I think you see a lot of blown layups, a lot of missions. shots and some bad turnovers. And I think it just led to him kind of losing his confidence as the game went along. And that is what really stuck with me. If they'd gotten him easier looks earlier, I think it may have been a better game, but I just think it kind of compounded into just a poor opening performance for him. And he lost his confidence as the game went along. But like I said,

I don't think the spurs set him up for success. I think when we get into real in-game action, it'll be easier and they will run stuff that leads to easier offense for Wemby. I absolutely agree. And listen, Wemby did not play well. Point Blum. He had a brutal shooting night. We did see him at times lose his handle. We saw some of his actual issues exposed in terms of his struggles with physicality as a driver. His issues getting all the way to the rim when he's coming downhill. A lot of times we see him settle for those runners in the eight to 10 foot range.

But none of that is surprising. Like those are realities of his game that we've seen on film repeatedly. And I've used this line before, but I like it. So I'll use it again. It felt like this game plan was designed by some. who watched a highlight reel of Wembe. They called him 7 foot 5 Kevin Durant. And they were like, oh, great.

Awesome. This guy sounds sick. And there's such a fascination with these big men who can do these wing-esque things. Everybody compared Chet to KD. Same stuff happens with Wemby because, of course, he has a unique level of fluidity and ball handling and shooting for being over seven foot tall. It is not the foundation of his game. It is not the bread and butter of his game.

And it never will be. First of all, I would not really expect Wemby to ever be. as good of an offensive player as he is a defensive player. I do think he can be a great offensive player. I think he's a very high offensive floor, but fundamentally, I think this is a guy who is someday going to be the best defensive player on the planet. And that's what gives him the all-MBA value on top of his complimentary offensive production. The fact that he is a guy who you can run pick and roll for and theoretically should be able to get a pick and pop look for very frequently. or if he rolls hard to the rim,

he is like a comically massive lob target and a fluid athlete and a good finisher at 7 foot 5 with an 8 foot wingspan. So I totally agree with you. It was way too much isolation. Let's see what Wembe can do as a perimeter creator. When that's never going to be his foundation, that's something that you are looking at

in terms of upside down the line. As a rookie, he's going to struggle to be consistently efficient there. It's a big reason that we saw him struggle in terms of efficiency as a perimeter shot maker this past year over in France. He was 28% from deep. That's not a testament to his status as a shooting prospect. It's a question of shot quality. He's not going to create seamless stepbacks consistently. He has the moments. It's not consistent at this point. And nor does it

have to be. I wanted to see more pick and roll for him absolutely. I think that's where you create the highest quality looks. I did think though he definitely has to bear responsibility for the fact that he was too tentative. He was not just confidently taking those pick and pop looks. He wasn't attacking closeouts. And so then they would just sort of devolve into even more isolations. A couple of times we did see him roll. It was a very soft roll to the free throw line area.

And so he's not getting the easiest possible opportunity out of it. So you combine that with his finishing issues, which I do think are real and are probably the most significant thing that he actually has to improve on. But if Wembe does turn into like a legitimately strong. guy who can move people around in the lane, I think he's going to be the best player in the world. But that's where he's most lacking right now, a brutal off shooting night.

All of this comes together to really impact his confidence. Again, the ball handling in traffic, he's 7.5. Like, of course, if he is running these stagnant isolations and guys are able to dig on him and he's got multiple arms down there, he's still a human being. He is more alien than anybody else, but he just wasn't put in a good position to succeed, played poorly, but this is not the way that we see the best version of Wembe either.

Not at all. And I think it's funny you bring up his struggles in the lane when he's driving into those crowded lanes. Like a lot of people overreacted to the turnovers. Guys, Wembe is the lane. Like he's huge. So no, I don't think he was in the best position, but I do think there were a lot of encouraging things that we saw from Wemby.

We can start defensively. It's comical. You saw this a lot overseas and highlights and stuff like that. Wembe doesn't have to move to block shots. He doesn't even look like he's trying sometimes. He can just reach his arms up. And in that position, he's not even trying to block a shot. And he can inadvertently block one.

So I think you're looking at an all-N-B-A caliber, all-defense caliber center as a rim protector. But I really like what we saw out of him on the perimeter. That's another thing. The Spurs had him on Brandon Miller a lot of this game. I don't think that's his long-term bit. I think he could be a really good helpside guy, but long-term he's going to be at the five. But it was encouraging to me the way he was able to kind of take away Brandon Miller and any guy that he was on, his arms are so long.

I mean, Wembe can drop basically further than any other defender in the NBA because of how long he is and just affect shots in at least easy transition stuff. But he's going to be a terrific perimeter defender as well because of how long his arms are. But I did think we saw some other encouraging things to the playmaking. I don't know if you saw that one crossover. He goes in between the legs. He goes crossover to his right hand and in one fluid motion kicks that ball over to the guy, in the dunker spot.

He ends up missing the layup, but it was just so fluid. And I did think that Wembe played an unselfish game, too. He was trying to move the ball into the flow of the offense. Granted, I did think that the lights were a little bright for him. I thought he stagnated a little bit, wasn't attacking. When the defense wasn't set, he would wait for the ball,

and then the defense would get reset. But I liked how unselfish he was. I liked the playmaking flashes. And there's a lot of encouraging stuff. Like I said, in a better situation when there's an actual game plan, when they are running stuff through him, think we're going to see all of his best quality shine. But again, like I said, I think there were a lot of encouraging things in this game, the playmaking, the defense as well. And he's got a really

solid foundation there too. Yeah. I mean, he's Victor Weniamma. He's a generational defensive prospect. Even in, as you said, a strange role, mostly guarding the perimeter, the guy ends up with five blocks. Like, he is just a monstrously impactful rim protector. And that is going to be the value that makes him a star night in, night out. If he goes off for 25 and if he is creating off the dribble and if he is knocking down his triples and all these varieties of ways, fantastic, then again, you have like the best player in the world. But no matter what, if he can fit in offensively and get higher quality looks, then that

defensive value is always going to be there. But I do want to reiterate, like, I'm not confident that Wemby's going to be the best score out of this class. I think that this is something we've talked about before. Scoot's ability to pressure the rim as truly a unique athlete with his combination of quickness, like top notch acceleration, but also power and also vertical pop around the rim. If he's a competent pull-up jump shooter, which I think he'll be, he could totally be more productive in that primary ball handling role.

Brandon Miller, if he totally rounds out the wing scoring skill set and is able to do it out of pick and roll, but also off ball and also in transition with his lethal shooting and size and the ball handling chops, those guys have super, seamless pass to being 25 plus point per game scores. Wemby is going to have to prove that he can be a consistent high level post hub to get to that point. And he has to maybe do more of the effective isolation stuff. And I think some of that will become more efficient when he's specifically mismatch

hunting instead of just these sort of stagnant random feeling ISOs. But Wembe doesn't have to be the best score in the class to be clearly the best player in the class when you consider the unrivaled defensive impact. I agree with you on the play. making flashes. I thought that that was impressive and he just has such a impressive level of vision for a guy of that size and at that age. My opinion on Wembe doesn't change at all from one game. I agree it was an adjustment. He did look uncomfortable. The physicality thing is real. But guess what? Like part of this is just shooting

variance. I mean, he goes one of six from three, right? He got a couple good looks in this game that just didn't fall. He missed a dunk where he did a really nice job creating a look for himself with that spin out of the post. So I'm not. worried about Wemby. We do have some news in relation to Wembe, though, which is that Greg Popovich, at a spry 74 years old, already the oldest head coach in NBA history is signing a five-year extension with the Spurs. What does that mean for his future and the future of the organization? I mean, I think it's bright. I mean, Pop's one of the greatest defensive coaches of all time. And I don't think we thought Papa was going to go anywhere unless he retired. Pops always

been a great defensive coach. He's been, he's built a couple dynasties on the backs of two of the greatest centers of all time, and David Robinson and Tim Duncan. I mean, he's also been great at player development, too. I don't want to undersell that aspect of the guys that we saw. I wasn't a big Devon Vassel guy. It wasn't a big Jeremy Sohan guy. It wasn't a big Malachi Brandom guy. All of those guys looked great last year with the Spurs. But you think back to even other guys, Dejonte Murray took a massively if he was a late first round pick. You think about the Yakub Purtles of the world. Like, Pop is really good at player development and building a winning culture. At this point, I can't imagine the Spurs without Greg and Popovich. I mean, they go,

they go hand in hand together. I think it's bright. I think that Pop is buying in. What this signals to me about Pop is that he's buying in as Wemby is maybe, again, I don't understand state this is the building block of another championship team. And I'm fully all in on that too. I'm glad they resigned him. And I think that he sees bigger things with Wembe.

And again, maybe another championship on horizon if Wembe reaches the expectations, especially offensively that we think he can reach. It's awesome because I think that that was really the main selling point of the San Antonio landing spot for Wemby from a fan perspective, they may be lacking in the kind of really dynamic young guard talent who you can immediately pair him with, right? They don't have a Cade Cunningham. They don't have the Rockets collection of young talent,

although that's more on the wings. Same goes for Orlando. But all these teams who already have that sort of young star who you can attach Wemby to. Kelden Johnson doesn't quite fit into that mold. Devin Vassell, I don't think, has that kind of high end ceiling. But what they have is a level of organizational competence. that has been the best in league for 25 years since Greg Popovich took over. And so I think this is

an awesome affirmation of how much he believes in Wembe and how committed he is to this timeline. Because it's felt for years like once Kauai left, okay, is the window on them as a contender closing. And then once the Damar and Lamarcus duo fell apart and it became evident that that wasn't going anywhere in terms of championship contention, I was like, I mean, he's got to be hanging it up eventually, but he wrote out the low point and now he gets. this generational talent. So, as you said, nobody has a more proven player development record. I mean, I don't know if you even mentioned Kauai. No, I did mention Kauai. Tony Parker, Monu Janobli, Keldon Johnson on this current roster was the 29th pick. That's an impressive

instance of player development. Like, nobody consistently gets the most out of their talent, particularly out of the draft. And nobody has a better history of relationships with international stars particularly, like the Spurs are an international organization through and through. And this just goes a long way in making San Antonio a destination because great, now you have Wembe. The challenge that is going to be on the horizon is how do you build the contender around him? What's your approach? How quickly do you try to make that push, pull some of your young assets, try to bring in that second star. We know that if you go in on the wrong second star, things can go south. We've already seen how much these timelines can be accelerated in today's

NBA. Luca already had things go south with Christopps Borzingus. There's already chaos and discussion about what's next with Kyrie Irving. Zion is already apparently very disgruntled in New Orleans. Like you just don't have the windows that you used to. I think that's a very fine line to walk. But I think that Pop is a guy who is going to put them in the best position to handle this timeline appropriately and to attract the right kind of people to come and play alongside Wemby. And I think that it's just a great sign for the organization. So we saw it Wemby yesterday. Opposite him, of course, was the number two pick in this draft,

Brandon Miller, who was, I guess, a widely criticized pick by some. There was a lot of believers in the Scoot is just a better prospect camp. You and I were not in that camp. You and I both actually slightly preferred Brandon Miller for his versatility of impact, his floor as a wing who can do a whole lot of things at a high level. he hasn't been the most productive and efficient through three Summer League games, but are you concerned about him? I'm not concerned at all.

I mean, primarily because the role that they've had him in in summer league isn't really the role that we're going to see him in at the NBA level alongside Lamello. I mean, he was entrusted with a lot of primary ball handling duties in these games that we've seen, and I thought he's succeeded pretty well. I've liked his handle out of the pick and roll. Brandon, I didn't really like his handle when we were analyzing him in the pre-draft process. It's a lot tighter than I thought. He's a good decision maker.

He's got a good handle. He's good at driving the lane. And like I said, man, again, context is everything. When we're especially diagnosing Summer League games, not only is Brandon Miller entrusted with a lot of ball handling duties where he will be maximized alongside a guy like Lamello Ball because he's such an elite shooter, he's playing alongside a bunch of guards that don't like move in the rock anyway.

Nick Smith Jr. is out there trying to get buckets. James Book Knight is trying to get buckets alongside Lamello Ball. He's going to be feeding Brandon. And Brandon's an elite shooter. I don't undersell that point. He's like a 40% catching shooter. But secondarily, good ball handler, I think has, yeah, man, like 20 point per game to 25 point per game upside. It's not all going to be roses immediately.

And this is not the best situation. I think people can be overly critical of summer league games, but I think Brandon's shown us a really solid floor in a pretty poor situation. Like, there's a lot of times where Brandon is sitting there on the wing. And we see Book Knight or Nick Smith in these games take a contested jumper. when immediately his role is going to be as a close-out attacker as an elite spot-up shooter and a guy who plays off ball. And I think he's going to be great at that role immediately.

I'm not concerned about Brandon Miller. Although I know that like you said, Matt Spahn hour, shout out stay hot, shout out Blue Wire, resident Hornets fan wanted scoot. I think Brandon's the guy. And I'm really excited to see him alongside Lamello. I think it's very similar to the Wembe situation. My opinion on anybody is not going to be fundamentally changed from a few games. few games of Summer League.

If I believe in you as a prospect, I'm still going to believe in you at this point. I do think, though, we have seen some of his limitations shown on this stage. And I think the biggest one is overall adjusting to the physicality of the league.

I think that you see that from him in terms of his propensity to just get into instant foul trouble. But you can't get into real foul trouble in Summer League. He's fouling eight times in a game. Even in this last one, it was his best performance yet

with 5,0,031 minutes. I think he's having some, trouble navigating screens on that end, which although I really liked him as a defensive prospect, was a challenge of his just as a bigger wing who at times takes on those perimeter assignments. And sometimes he's just sort of hacking guys on the way through that. More significantly though, I think offensively, rim pressure is going to be a challenge for him. Because we have seen him more in that primary ball handler role, as you said. And he is a phenomenal shooting prospect. He has an incredibly impressive level of ball handling and presence out of pick and

for a six nine wing of that age. Like he'll hit people with the hostage dribble and trap you in jail. He's tremendous at manipulating defenders and drawing fouls. He's a good playmaker. The one thing he doesn't have is that really high end first step. And he's a good vertical athlete, not a great one. He has creativity as a finisher, but he's not a big, strong guy. So that's where he has struggled.

In terms of getting into the lane, he's not producing those attempts in the restricted area. But I also think some of this is just he's been on. off shooting. Like I thought he got good looks. He ended up five for 15 in this game against Wemby. Some of that is just he's missing good pull up looks from midrange and from deep. But I thought in the fourth quarter of the first game against the spurs, he started cooking. And it's just because his jump shot was falling at the level that we expect from a truly elite shooter. But I really like the playmaking flashes we see from him. I think he is a tremendously aware guy does a good job of hitting rollers consistently.

I really like the foul drawing. I like the manipulation of defenders. And I totally agree. In a more off ball role playing with a playmaker like Lamello, he's just going to get higher quality looks. Summer League offense is rough. And if you are the guy who is carrying the primary load

and it's something that you're capable of, like Brandon Miller has these pick and roll chops, but it's not his primary role, you're going to struggle to be efficient. You're going to struggle to be consistently productive. So no, I'm not really worried about Brandon Miller. I did like what I saw from Brandon defensively, though.

I mean, he had the big block in transition. He jumped a couple of passing lanes. Like, I've liked his hands outside of the foul. He's using him a little too much. That's fair. I don't know. I did like what I saw to Brandon defensively, too, though. I legitimately think that if he can get the fouling in control,

I think this is a guy that could guard one through four, maybe with a little more size. He's still not big enough. And I do think he needs to be more aggressive when driving the rack, too. This is a guy in college. I mean, he averaged 4.7, free throw attempts per game last season. But I think a lot of that is the manipulation of defenders.

He's so good at getting guys to bite on pump fakes at trapping dudes on his back. Like, I think it's more that than the rim pressure that gets into the line. Yeah, but I don't know. I think that he needs to, he needs to lean into that a little more when we finally see him get to the league. I'm still very confident Brandon Miller is a prospect that he's still my number two guy. Yeah. And I don't want to like, I don't want to just, I just don't want to like diminish scoot or anything.

I love scoot too. but I think Brandon Miller is going to be a... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. My mother-in-law spent years sabotaging our relationship until karma made her pay for it. Wait a minute, Dakota. How bad did it get? Well, it got bad enough that her son-in-law had to eventually arrest her himself. She moved in for two weeks, lasted for five.

She left nail clippings in the bathtub, candy stuck to the furniture, and then she pressed her ear against the bedroom door and burst in screaming. She did not burst in while they were... She did. kicked her out and paid for her hotel, and they thought, it's finally over. Days later, she called her son-in-law at work, claiming that his partner had been in some kind of freak accident and had been rushed to the hospital in an ambulance.

He called every hospital in the city, and his partner was making coffee the entire time. She faked a medical emergency just to test whether or not he loved her son? Yeah, and she sat in the hospital parking lot, waiting for him to see if he would show up. When that didn't work, she walked into the son-in-law's police station and filed a kidnapping report against him. She filed a kidnapping report against him in his own police station.

Spoilers. Karma's going to show up in the best way possible. So if you want to hear how this story ends, search OK story time on the IHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you're listening to podcasts. Dog in the league. Well, I think finishing at the rim against NBA length and defense, even in Summer League, is something that we've seen be a challenge

for all the top prospects. It's just a level up from what these guys are used to where most of them are convincingly the best athlete on the floor. and I think it's something that we saw a little bit with a couple of the other top prospects who we watched go head to head yes for that being a men Thompson and scoot Henderson in what was a really fun Trailblazers Rockets game who impressed you more between those two Scooter a man

that's a tough question I'm probably going to go scoot just because of how he started out with that jump shooting he starts out 4-4 and oh man my mouth was watering dude and you see scoot Henderson turn on that jump shot it's like he has no holes in his game he's a complete offensive beast. Hits a couple stepbacks, hits some pull-up jumpers, and that's the one real hole in his game. I'm going to rattle off some numbers. Last season with the G-League Ignite, 35% on pull-ups, 33% on stepbacks. He was 24% overall on jump shots. And so that's the biggest hole in his game. So when he starts out 404, we're in for a show. The rest of the way, he goes 0-04 on jump shots.

But to see that ceiling realized a little bit, to see those flashes, it was very impressive. But I was also just impressed with how easy it is for Scoot to get to the rack to get downhill, to put pressure on the rim and to get easy looks. Again, the surrounding pieces here are not great in the Portland Summer League. I think with real NBA talent around him, you're seeing him maximize guys and get open looks for shooters as well as easy looks for himself. And I think this is important to note too. He goes 15, 5 and 6 in basically three quarters too. He doesn't play that last quarter because he gets injured. It's very close. I was very impressed with the men, but scoot with what I saw with that jump shoot, jump shooting ceiling in the first half.

That's what really intrigued me about Scoot. Yeah, and it was particularly out of the midrange. He had that one step back three, but that's where we know that he's much more comfortable at this stage. And it's really remarkable how much he reminds me of Russ. Like just in terms of their athletic composition, there's no other dudes out there with this combination of ridiculous acceleration first step and then also that power and that explosive verticality around the rim,

the ability to pressure the rim so consistently. I thought Scoot was super impressive. the inconsistency as a jump shooter is going to be a reality. It was a reality this entire season in G League of Night. Sometimes he put on clinics, sometimes he couldn't make a thing. But his ability to generate that pressure around the rim, the playmaking that feeds off of that where he's very heads up and dynamic

and potentially how he can impact the defensive end of the floor with great athletic tools and a high motor. I didn't think that this was a standout game from him there, but he does have that ceiling as well. I would probably lean scoot as well because of the pull-up jump shooting show that we did see from him early, but both these guys showed that they are standout athletes, stand-out playmakers, as we've known. And I did like a lot of what I saw from a men. It was fun to see him against any version of NBA competition just because the overtime elite

experience is so weird. You'll see them playing in a high school gym against dudes who are just like not in the same stratosphere athletically as him and ASAR. So to see him on a stage like this was fun. he remains such a uniquely special ball handler for six, seven. Like he just loves that in and out dribble. And let me tell you what, it's very effective. I think he's one of the best one-handed passers that I've ever seen. His ability with a live dribble to create opportunities for his teammates with such velocity from so many different angles at his height.

He had that one where he was driving the baseline and he threw that one-handed bounce pass to a guy who was able to just get an open dunk out of it. it's such a special trait. And athletically, he does pop. I think Scoop popped a little bit more. Scoot is just next level. But so is a man. I think the challenge for him in this game was really finishing around the rim,

which is interesting for an athlete of that caliber. I think there's a couple reasons for it. One of it is just the adjustment to this level of size and athleticism and not being able to just completely athletically dominate everybody on the floor. I thought he was weirdly focused on switching from his right to left hand from the right side of the room, which he did on a few occasions. His left hand is really not that good. I noted it as an area that needs improvement for him as I was scouting him.

And there were a couple times where he had really awkward finishes because of that. But I think the biggest thing that is going to remain an issue for him is that until he can reliably knock down those floater range shots, he's going to have to just force some tough finishes out of pick and roll because he's got to go right at you. It's all he's got. He did have one nice floater in this game, but that's not a weapon for him yet. So there's going to be some of the forcing tough finishes. But what I did love was how consistently he used his rim pressuring for playmaking. He ends this game with five assists. I thought that he could have easily had three or four more. Like it was a really nice game from him in that respect. And then you saw some of the two way stuff with him too. he ends this game with seven stocks.

There were some very overtime elite gambles in there. He had such a dumb reach and foul. Sometimes he's just like chasing guys from behind and seeing him catch him sleeping. Like there's going to be an adjustment from that kind of super free flowing chaotic basketball into more structured NBA stuff. But some of the gambles paid off and his shot blocking. He and us are both just have special size and length and athleticism at that position. So I love what I saw from both.

of these guys, like they didn't play exceptional games by their standards. None of these top four guys have so far, but they're all very special prospects. And it was fun to see that translate to this stage. For sure. And I, you mentioned the NBA structure that we saw too. A man was really good out of the pick and roll, I thought, in this game. And what's really, I know we've noted through the pre-draft process, too, that he's got exceptional burst. One of the quickest first steps I've ever seen. But I was really impressed that out of pick and rolls, out of dribble handoff, stuff like that, he's able to get into the lane and to draw a defender so quickly. If he does develop that in-between game, that mid-range, that floater game, it's going to be really hard to defend him.

But a lot of passes out of the pick and roll where he can just see over the defense and see angles that other guys can't. And defensively, I was astounded. I thought it was a really, really good performance from him hands-wise, jumping passing lanes, blocking shots. Yeah, I was really impressed with the men. I think the finishing thing is a real issue, and it was weird to me too, dude. He drove right side and switched to that left hand. like four times. Two of them got stuff. Two of them he converted. That's a real issue, but he's got such great athletic traits. And I think if he can figure out scoring in the long

term, he's got everything else. He's going to be a good defender. He's going to be a good playmaker. And I really liked his court vision. I think long term, you're looking at a guy who just has special athletic traits for a guy who sees the floor this well. The Rockets also, of course, had another very interesting first round pick out there. That being Cam Whitmore, who was seemingly a consensus top 10 guy and then fell all the way to 20. What did you see how to him in this game. That guy's like the, I wrote this down on my notes. That guy's like the Energizer Bunny, man. He just plays with such intense energy throughout the game. I love it. There's a there's a lack of control with Cam Whitmore that he needs to reel in. Like, I see it like

Jade and Ivy kind of just, I got to go. I got to go. He's the Tasmanian devil. He was in this game for sure. Dude, he is just full go all the time. If he can rain that in and reel it back a little bit slow down. I think Cam Whitmore is going to be special. That's the one thing that I noted. about Whitmore that was a little off. He doesn't have a great shooting performance here. He drove a lot of crowded pains from like, Cam, kick out to a shooter. You know, you got an easy three there. And he struggled to finish through contact.

He struggled to make shots in general. But his athletic traits are freakish, man. He's such a, he just plays with such a brutal force right now that if he can rein those things in, I think you're looking at a guy who could be really special. He's got a long way to go. Like, he's got to, like I said, he's got to reel himself in, but there are very few guys with these kind of special athletic traits.

And that's why I think Cam was a guy who was regarded so highly, but also the rawness and the out of control element is a reason that I didn't like him as much as say a Jarris Walker, even a Taylor Hendricks, these guys who have higher floors because of their multifaceted impacts, the fact that they have several high level traits with Cam. You're pretty much looking at freak athleticism and everything else needs to be refined. I thought first of all, we talked about this with Brandon Miller. He is a prominent young pick. So he's in an on ball role. he's running some pick and roll here at a volume that I don't think he will be in the season. And that's just not where he thrives. He doesn't have the playmaking chops. He loves his step back. But as a pull-up jump shooter, he's pretty erratic. And he was in this game. He only made one and he probably took six or seven. He goes five of 18 in the game overall. And there was very much a bull in a china shop field to it. It's like, all right, straight line drives into people's chest at 6.6.2.30 with a 40 inch vert being strong as hell.

can I finish through you or am I going to get stuffed by NBA length and guys knowing exactly what I'm going to do and being in position. And it was a combination of the two. I thought he was dynamic in transition. I also a lot of times he was totally out of control on transition. So this was the Cam Wittmore experience. I think this is a reason maybe why he fell. He definitely needs refinement.

But I think in a role where he is more of a catch and shooter and a close out attacker and his offensive role is simplified to really maximize his strengths because he was a good catch and shooter and he is a great closeout attacker with his athleticism. He'll do well. I believe in him. I think he was an incredible value pick. There's just not room for him to try to do a lot of the ball handling stuff here in Houston with Jalen Green and Amen Thompson and Jabari Smith obviously. But I think he's better suited for a more complimentary role anyways. I do want to quickly shout out Jabari Smith, obviously a second year guy. So summer league, you expect him to play a little bit better. But this was a really impressive second half from him. He has the incredible game winner that I'm

sure a lot of you guys saw just a crazy catch turn and fire from like probably 26, 27 feet with 0.6 seconds to win the game. But he goes over 30. I thought it was really strong in terms of pullup jump shooting, face up shooting. I thought he had some nice finishes just fitting in offensively. because he doesn't have that level of fluidity and creation off the bounce. He's not that high-end athlete in terms of a first step or anything. Like I've said, Brandon Miller is in a different category than him to me. And that's a reason that I felt so much better about him as a prospect overall. But Jabari Smith is a special shooter and he didn't really show it this year.

He had a rough year in that respect. He was under 31% from deep. So just seeing that, seeing that aggression, seeing what he said after the game about how he wants to be out here with his teammates getting better. I was pleased to see that from him. And I think this rocket score is going to be really fun. There is a lot of refinement that needs to be done. They need to learn how to play cohesive NBA basketball and whatnot.

But they really have stockpiled a lot of talents who I think have a ton of talent. The king of the castle in that respect, though, is what Sam Presti has done with the Oklahoma City Thunder, who we also got to watch. Chet, obviously, after missing what would have been his rookie year with injury, your boy, Kason Wallace. What did you see out of those guys? I don't know. Sam Presti has built a young stud,

Boltron here with all these different guys. Yeah. We can start with Chet, man. I really was impressed with his poise and defensive impact on both ends of the floor. But I think Chet immediately can take this Oklahoma City Corps. They were 13th ranked defensively last season. And if you didn't watch a whole lot of OKC basketball,

they were always engaged. They played hard every night. one of the tenants that I liked about OKC, even though you're not talented, like Houston, right? Houston defense could come and go. They played hard every night with the 13th ranked defense. But they significantly lacked size in length, and Chet immediately will step in here and be such a great rim protector, a guy who can also switch out to the perimeter. But I think he can propel the thunder to being a top 10 defense next season. When you have all these great offensive pieces, the Josh Giddies of the world, the SGAs, just special, this is also a team

that with their starting five and their bench unit, you're not going to have any guys who have offensive liabilities. Everybody's going to be able to shoot. Everybody's going to be able to handle a little bit. Everybody's going to be able to play make a little bit. It's a really special unit. And you look up and down the roster, man, the two J-dubs, SGA, Giddy,

and then the other two guys I point to Trey Man and Kaysan Wallace, who? Oh, man, I have stockpiled all the Kaysan Wallace stock in the world, Carson. He looks so good, has 20 points. Most of it is off catch and shoot, but I really liked how he played within the flow of the offense. This is an Oklahoma city team that, like I said, doesn't have offensive liabilities.

I think it's going to be great defensively next season. You also are going to have great ball handling and decision makers all 48 minutes. That's giddy. That's SGA. That's Trey Man and that's Kaysan Wallace. The Thunder are slowly building a juggernaut here. I think they're going to be really special next season. But I do think it starts with Chet and how he's going to be able to transcend this team

defensively. Absolutely. And I loved Chet as a prospect. Keep in mind, I'm only 21. I've been really evaluating prospects for probably six years. But I said before Wembe came into the fold that Chet was the best prospect that I had ever seen because he has such a unique combination, or it was unique until Wembe came along, of rim protection of the flashes of perimeter skill with his handle and his perimeter shot making

while being this massive pick and roll target, highly efficient across the board offensively and the playmaking chops. he's just another guy who I think is going to be so consistently impactful on both ends of the floor. And I thought really went out there and bawled out today. And a lot of it came down to his level of aggression and really comfort on the floor, embracing the physicality of it all, showing us aggressive creation out of the post, rolling hard to the bucket, fighting on the glass, really engaging in the physicality of that arena for a guy who is, every bit as slight as YMB. I just thought he did so much better in those categories and it really

made all the difference in terms of his impact on this game. Immediately you see the rim deterrence, just such an awesome rim protector. And I really was impressed by his finishing, his aggression, off the bounce. He, again, is just another fundamentally unselfish guy. He had an awesome touchdown outlet pass in this game. I think super high floor, super high scene. Super high scene. He stays healthy. He's going to be an all-MBA guy to me. And absolutely is what this OKC team needs. They have perimeter creation out the wazoo with the combination of SGA and Giddy and Jalen Williams and now bringing in Kaysan Wallace. And they have tons of length and athleticism on the wings and two-way guys. And it's like you said, basically everybody on the roster can capability

shoot and playmake and attack closeouts and defend. But they were small last year. They were big positionally up until you got to the five and we're looking at them starting Jalen with a Y Williams to have a legitimately high end rim protector, a very high end roller and target there. I think Chet is exactly what they need. And I'm so excited to watch this team play because I have very high expectations for them. Like what range do you see them in next year? Dude, I think they could be like a top six seed maybe. Like I said, dude, effort was not an issue. That's one of the biggest things that you see with these young teams is just giving effort. That wasn't an issue with Oklahoma City last year.

They're very talented. They're very hungry. They've got a superstar on offense. Chet Holmgren could be a superstar on defense. Yeah, I don't know. Playoff series win, maybe that's a stretch. Final thing on Chet, too, I just want to get out real quick. That's how you properly use your big man who can do all these different things.

We saw on the summer league floor. The DHOs, the pick and pops. It immediately gets a defense in rotation. That's how the spurs need to utilize Wemby, man. But yeah, I think a top six seed maybe is attainable, man. If they can stay healthy, I said, you got a superstar in SGA and a potential superstar in Chet, and he addresses their biggest need from last season. I'm very high on the Thunder.

I think they very well may be the best, really young team, like where all of your core guys are legitimately young since the 2012 Thunder, since the hardened Westbrook, KD iteration that obviously went to the finals. I do not expect them to go to the finals next year. I would be pretty shocked if that happened. But when you think about the other very good young teams in recent years, they're few and far between. We had the 2021 Grizzlies in Jaws year two with him at 21 and Triple J at 21.

And that entire rotation really composed of guys who were 28 or younger, young Dylan Brooks actually balled out in a playoff series, if you can believe it, even rotation guys like Desmond Bain, D Anthony Melton, who were like 22. Still, they were a pretty quick first round exit. They put up a solid fight against Utah. You're like the 2018 Sixers where they're two best. guys, 23-year-old Mb, 21-year-old Simmons, but they had really important veterans who were like

30-plus with Bellinelli and Ilyossova and JJ Reddick. This is a team that I think just has so much talent that they are going to be firmly a playoff team, but they also have these important things like the guy, the top 15 player who is going to consistently manufacture high-quality offense in SGA. Now they do have that foundational defensive piece where already they fly around on that end and play with consistent effort. They do just have a general high IQ in synergy. I mean, even in Summer League, they're operating on a different level than any other Summer League team that we've seen. And yeah, they have more talent out there on paper, but they have a lot of guys who are playing the right way. And I think Chet really exemplified that too. So to add to that foundation,

this dynamic two-way center and a very pro-ready, versatile two-way guard like Kayson Wallace, everybody's going to get better. Nobody is at their peak. yet. We saw even Usman Jang, who obviously was a lottery pick for them, but didn't really play much last year. He was impressive today, flashes of playmaking. His shot was one of the bigger questions about his game. I thought he looked fluid and confident there today. Knocked down, I believe three triples. He becomes a consistent rotational guy. They're just sitting on an embarrassment of riches. And we had an interesting conversation today. We were just sitting watching the game with Jason Timph and Livmoods, our volume teammates, who just did a great show here,

and talking about the potential of them to eventually stockpile these assets and go all in on a star. Because they have 15 first round picks over the next seven years. Like that is just impractical. You cannot build a roster with that many talented guys on it. And at some point, you're going to have to be paying these guys at much higher values than their rookie deals. So it is going to be interesting to see how they manage this. They have the assets right now, like to look at Damien Lillard. and they can absorb his contract just by moving,

uh, who is the Lou Dort. Thank you. And, uh, immediately they're like at least on the fringes of contention. That's a really, really good basketball team. So I think that's something that they might have to embrace at some point.

Just because you can't keep building a fantasy basketball team of guys who are under 25. But I do want to quickly touch before we get out of here on the Damien Lillard issue because last we spoke, it was after he had to van. the trade request last we spoke about this, that is. And it seemed like he was headed towards Miami. And since then, that narrative has really only grown, even as the Blazers have said that they are far from exclusively talking with Miami and they want the best trade package.

Dame is apparently having his agent go around and tell people that if they trade for Dame, they will have an unhappy superstar and that they shouldn't do that. What's your take on that? Dame exerting his influence to that extent where he is really trying to force his way to one specific location. It's really unprecedented, Carson. I mean, we've seen guys in the NFL too, right? You think about rookies coming immediately into the league.

Eli Manning, I'm not going to the San Diego Chargers. You think about John Elway. I'm not going to play for the Baltimore Colts. We've seen it in the NBA. Dominique Wilkins. I'm not going to play for the jazz. We've seen Steve Francis, didn't want to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies, right? there's been a precedent of guys asking out to James Harden, Vince Carter, Ben Simmons.

The list goes on. But the unprecedented part about this is Dame is saying, yeah, I want to go here. I see this on both sides. For the Portland front office, I get it. You want to get the most valuable assets that you can by sending him to whatever location you can. You don't really care where Dame goes now because he's no longer a part of your franchise. I see it on Dame's side too. Dame has spent his entire career here, putting his heart and soul into these seasons with Portland

and he wants to finally go to a winner. It's tough. I honestly think I'm probably a little more on the dame side, Carson, like I think you can work out a deal where you get a three-team trade and can work it out. But it's truly unprecedented. We've never seen a superstar say, you're going to trade me here and you're going to do what I say. And he doesn't have a no trade clause too, but I do think it's scaring off teams. I don't think you want to trade for Damian Lillard.

If he's saying, I'm not going to be happy here. I'm going to immediately ask out. But it's, it's unprecedented, man. It's just kind of crazy. It is fascinating to think about in terms of the progression of our idea of player empowerment and mobility because there are like several examples and they're pretty much all in distant history now, but of legitimately all time great players demanding trades and just being straight up denied. And then they stay in the same spot and they end up having great success.

I don't think that would happen in Portland. I think that Dame both sides absolutely would be best served by moving on. But I was just thinking back, like Scottie demanded a trade after the 97th season. They won another title. Akeem demanded a trade in 1992 and then they were able to eventually put together a championship caliber team and win two titles. Kobe demanded a trade in 2007. Stuck around. They won two more titles.

So there was a time where like it was actually conceivable that you could turn down a star player's trade request. Now like the best you can do is postpone it, right? KD requested a trade last off season and it ended up happening. midseason. I can't think of a situation where a guy was outright denied like that. And it's gone from, okay, the standard is like LeBron building a super team to maybe it's Katie joining a super team through free agency to now guys obviously requesting out at every few months. We have a star who does so to specifically I want to be traded, not just a contender, not just here's my shortlist, specifically to this team that cannot offer you the best package of assets. And

I don't love that. I do think if anybody's earned it after all of the years of incompetence that Damis had to deal with and whatnot, maybe it's him. But he signed a mega extension there. And the reality is Brooklyn can put together a really good package. He could go there and they wouldn't be as good as Miami. I think Miami becomes a top tier title contender. But they'd still be a really good basketball team.

OK, C, I don't think would do that. But theoretically, if they were to, they would be a really good basketball team. So I'm all in on dame saying, hey, I want to win a title and I would like you to at least meet me there and trade me to a contender. But to say specifically this one, apparently he didn't even want to go to Philly where now Darryl Morey will not put Tyrese maxi on the table. So Philly doesn't have a great package to put together. I just think that is a bit too far. And obviously this is a players league. It is the most player centric league that there is.

This is a new level, though. And there's an ocean of gap between these two sides. but I ultimately think that Dame's going to end up getting what he wants. I don't think another team is going to put the offer on the table. And would he really hold out if they trade into one of these teams? I don't think so, but I don't know that anybody wants to call that bluff. So it's going to be fascinating to see in terms of long-term ramifications what this could mean for star mobility and power and influence around the league.

So that's going to do it for us here today. Guys, this was an absolute blast. Thank you to Blue Wire for letting us use this studio. This was so much fun. If you want more of our content, you can find us across social media, Twitter at Nerd underscore Sesh, Instagram, and TikTok at NerdSesh.

You can listen to the podcast across audio platforms and you can subscribe to the volume YouTube page to see all of our content there as well. With that, as always, I've been Carson Breber. I've been Logan Camden. And this was NerdSound. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends,

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