The Herd with Colin Cowherd - NFL Combine reaction; Kyler Murray/Cardinals fit; Antonio Brown's Big Ben bashing

Episode Date: March 5, 2019

In this episode, Middlekauff gives his reaction to the NFL Combine, understanding draft value, if the Cardinals are really a good fit for Kyler Murray, why massive Combine interest shows the NFL's dominance, and the latest in Antonio Brown's scorched Earth campaign against the Steelers, and answers questions in Middlekauff's Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to www.theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Now that's tasty. eBay motors.com. Let's ride. What's going on, everybody? It's me, Middlecough, also known as John Middlokoff, 3-and-out podcast, a little NFL Combine edition. Combine. I'm recording this on a Monday afternoon.

ended a little bit earlier today. It's all wrapped up. Just one of the all-time unique combines, and I'll dive into why. But my main thought is I'm going to dive into a conversation that often happens, especially on social media with anyone that loves talking about the draft. And I think sometimes we miss the point of what the exercise, not the actual exercises, but everything that just happened over the weekend. Also going to hit on Kyler Murray, the talk of the league.

and why I think some of the teams that he's being rumored to are not ideal fits. The big winner of this weekend, Adam Silver made some comments about millennials, and they're so angry at the Sloan Conference in Boston. I thought the NFL had a fantastic weekend and it'll dive in. Antonio Brown, one of the truly great receivers we've seen in recent memory on a historic six-year stretch is on an incredible Scorce Earth campaign right now of Ben, of just any human

that gets in his way. I've actually coming around on him but we'll dive into some of that too. Also, we'll end with the Middlecoff mailbag. Easiest way to get a hold of me, social media. Follow me at John Middlecoff. Twitter.

Instagram is where I answer the questions for this show. You'd slide up in those DMs. Also doing a YouTube page, John Middlecough. I go live every day. on Periscope. I'm also simulcasting it on YouTube.

So if you want my takes, they flow on the internet. But I'm going to start with this. And I think we struggle with this element of the combine. The NFL Combine does not determine whether you're going to be a good or bad player in the NFL. It just determines where you're going to go in the draft or helps determine that. And I think if you looked at it like this, if there was an $800,000 home, and you only had to pay $800,000 to acquire that home,

you would not pay a million dollars for that home just because you really liked it. And the draft works the same way. If you're drafting 12th, and you love a player, and you know that you can get that player at 26, you are moronic if you don't trade back, not even to 26, but into the early 20s,

and draft that player. Because if you don't, you're just wasting draft capital. Just like a lot of people, again, you can really love a player or love an asset in anything in life. And a lot of people listen to this, work in various businesses. You can be head over heels for a business. If you're in business acquisition or for some merger or whatever you're doing, you have to have an economical understanding of what that costs.

Even if you have to quote unquote overpay a little, you never want to overextend yourself too much. And I tweeted something earlier today. The moment Greedy Williams, when I woke up it, it happened, or I guess it happened like 7 a.m. 10 a.m. Eastern. Grady Williams ran a 4-3-8. He measured in at 6 foot 2. He's a 2 year starter at LSU. And he's, you know, DBU. He is going to be a top 10 player. Now, does that mean he's going to be a great NFL player? Or that Byron Murphy at Washington's not a better player long term? No. But I do know this.

If I want Greedy Williams, I got to draft him high. Because he's not going to last on the board. The other guy ran a 4-5-5 and had really short arms. His value, you might be able to, you should be able to get him in the late 20s. Now again, that doesn't mean he's not going to be a 10-year borderline pro bowl player. But if you were to draft and you're like, oh, Byron Murphy Corner 1. And let's say you're drafting 12. You're a moron if you draft him there.

if you can get them at 28. Just like my home analogy. You are insane. If a home is $500,000, you don't hand the guy a million dollar check. Now, if you love the home, maybe you're like, oh, there's some competition for the home.

Maybe I'll pay 600 grand. And we see it all the time, and it's the big reason the Howie Rosemans, the Bill Bealechecks, are running circles around the meathead guy. I want this player. Just draft him wherever.

Draft picks are capital, and that capital turns into money. So you better be very, very careful and have a great understanding of what guys' values are. My favorite player in this draft might be Nekeel Harry. He's my favorite player in the draft. He's not the best player, and if I was drafting 15, I would not take him 15, because at the end of the day, he's probably going to go to the late 20s, early 30s. Another one of my favorite. I love Devin Bush.

Devin Bush is probably going to go somewhere between 12 to 20. So if I'm drafting four, if I'm John Gruden, I'm a moron if I take Devin Bush there. Not because he's not going to be a good player, because I just wasted a ton of value. I could trade back and get the same thing. That's what Bill Belichick has been doing forever. He knows value, and he's even unique

because he can coach guys that he values more than others. I had a front row seat, how he knows this like the back of his hand. knowing where players are going to go in the draft is a huge element of the draft. Like, not drafting Devante Adams with their first round pick several years ago, and taking them in the second round is good business. Devante Adams is a top 10 wide receiver now. Should they have taken them in the first round looking back? No, because they didn't need to.

I use the analogy of Chris Ballard was sitting right next to me and I go, Chris, and there's a decent chance he may go, Darius Leonard, the linebacker they took in the second round, was my favorite player in the last year's draft. But I would have been a moron if I liked him more than Quentin Nelson. But wouldn't he have been an idiot if he took him six overall? The moment Quentin Nelson worked out and lifted and the tape, it was clear he was going to go really high.

So instead of taking Darius Leonard number six, you wait until the second round because that's where he's going to go. And I get into all these arguments. This guy's not that good. the times. Yeah, it's clear. They don't just do the combine for shits and giggles. The times matter. Heights, weight, speeds matter.

It's just a fact. I don't know saying I always agree with it, but there's a reason they do it. There's a reason they've been doing it forever, and we'll continue to do it. What it helps determine is how and where you have to pick a guy to acquire him. And because this is not fantasy football, but real football with real dollars,

and real draft picks, it does matter where a guy's value falls and doesn't fall. This is an economic exercise. That's what the draft is. It just happens to be with humans. But you better know, and I'm not saying that we all know after the combine exactly where and when a guy is going to go,

but you start to get a much clearer picture. Like, I can give you eight names off the top of my head that are going to go in the top 15. We have an idea. So if you want to get Rishon Gary, who I'm not necessarily, necessarily in love with, it can't be argued that he's going to go on the top

seven or eight picks. So if you want him, you better get in there. If you don't, then don't take them, or trade back or whatever. But you can't be like, I think I can get this guy. I wouldn't take him with anything before the 18th pick. Then you won't get him. So understanding the value is, I'd say, 90% of the game.

Because we've all watched the film, especially the leak. You know when a guy can play or not. once you get past like the first round it gets more difficult but that's another element of this combine the best players from Roshan Gary I mean Bosa's the Josh Allen's

Devin Bush, Devin White Nekeel Harry who's again he's not quite on their level went to the combine Greedy Williams and dominated height weight speed agility drills I mean DK. Mekkaf ran a 4-3 he's like 6 3

1.6 body fat his combine was incredible. And was he a top flight player? No, but he was widely viewed as a fringe first round pick. He helped his stock. So I get a lot of people, can I get this guy? I'm a diehard Niner fan. Can we get D.K. Metcalf in the second round?

No. I'm not saying you shouldn't take him in the first round because he's going to be a great player or whatever, but his value is first round now. That's just, and it is what it is. You know? So, but that's what makes this draft so interesting. is the majority of the players that we've been consistently talking about.

Kyler Murray, Dwayne Haskins, all the defensive players that just dominated on Saturday and Sunday. We're good at the combine. They hit certain thresholds. They ran really, really fast. They jumped really, really high. Usually, there's kind of a disconnect. Sometimes at the combine, you get these workout warriors that weren't great on tape. That's not really the case here.

You go, damn, Quinn and Williams just ran a 4-8. Yeah, he dominated at Alabama. So it just, their value, and this was going to be really hard for a lot of the GMs. There are going to be a lot of Pro Bowl players on defense from this draft. And I talked about it on my other podcast, because we talked a lot about the 49ers, Haberman and Middle Cop, you can find it on iTunes. It's going to be really difficult for John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan if Kyler Murray goes one, and they don't trade from 2 to 6 to get Odell Beckham, which is a fluid situation.

but let's just hypothetically say the O'Dell Beckham thing does not happen and John Lynch drafts at number two he's going to pass on several Pro Bowl players like that's just a fact he's going to be judged and there is pressure on who is the number one player because once Kyler's off the board the number one defensive player on your board

now that doesn't mean he's going to be the number one player on every board but he sets the domino effect whether he thinks Josh Allen's better than Nick Bosa whether he thinks shit, Gritty Williams is the next superstar player. I don't know.

Devin White, whatever. But he will be judged on that for the next several years because there's a group or seven or eight guys that the league just views as I don't want to say can't miss because no one's truly a can't miss. But if you're a high character guy,

you have good tape, and then you work out really well, those guys just don't fail. Like Josh Allen, he's not going to fail. Now, is he going to be a pro bowler? I don't know. But when you're 6'4, You play super hard.

You're 280. You run a 4-6. Your tape's really good. Like, I don't know if you're going to be an all-pro. I don't know if you're going to be Kalil-Mac. But you're not going to be bad. Like, look at Clowny. Once Clowny just stayed on the field,

as long as he just plays hard, he's really, really good. Now, does Kalil-Mak better? For sure. But Kale-Mat, but Javion Clownie's pretty damn good. If you hit a certain threshold of size and power and speed and you just try hard, You're going to be good.

And there are a ton of guys in this draft. Like, Devin Bush ain't going to fail. Devin White ain't going to fail. Now, they're not going to go probably in the top five, but they're going to be good players. There's a chance both those guys are stars. Between Gary, Oliver, Quinn and Williams, one of those three guys is probably being all pro one day.

So John Lynch is going to pass on these guys. This draft is really difficult. Because at the end of the day, even if three guys, Bosa, Allen, and Quinn and Williams, in a draft room, if you're John Lynch, all have the same grade. Let's just use for arbitrary argument's sake. The top grade in their grading system is like a nine. So they're all nines.

But let's, they wouldn't be nines because let's just say they're like eight-eighths or something, like a high-end player. You still have to stack them. So if all three of them are on the board, who do you take? And if the 49ers do not trade for O'Dell Beckham and move back to six, we're going to find out who they valued as the best player in this draft. And then the Jets, I mean, they're going to have a tough decision. Well, if Bosa's off the board, who do you think is better?

Quinn and Williams, Josh Allen, Devin White, greedy Williams? Hell, Devin Bush, all these guys. Who do you think is going to be the next superstar? And then the Raiders. Okay, Bosa and Allen are off the board with Kyler Murray. Who do you like more? Ed Oliver, Quinn and Williams, Devin White? because a couple of the guys you don't take

are going to be pro bowlers. Now, as long as your guy in the clowny analogy, it's hard to crush the Texans. Because you know what? You go, God, I got clowny. It's, again, my overpay home analogy, if you do overpay a little bit, if the home was $500,000,

and then I pay $600,000, but in seven years, that home is worth $750,000, you don't feel that bad. Now, if you also could have bought another home that you could have paid $600,000 for is now $900,000, that hurts. But if that other house that you could have bought for the same price is only $50,000 more than what your home is worth, you don't feel as bad. So the Texans, would they rather have Khalil Mack?

Hell yeah. Do they really lose sleep over it because they got clowning out? So that, that to me is the type decision that's going to determine this draft is really, really difficult because the best players on tape worked out the best and all these teams need defensive guys. So I think

with the Kyler Murray startup, and it's pretty damn clear he's going to go number one overall, the next seven or eight picks are fascinating because there's a chance that just by luck team draft an eight or nine gets the best player because they're all going to be pretty good but hell, maybe

Devin White becomes the next Ray Lewis and he goes nine. And just because, like, some of my favorite players, my favorite players in last year's draft were, Rokwon Smith was my favorite player in the draft. But if I was drafting one, I wouldn't have taken them one overall. And I think that rings true for all these, you know, GMs. Sometimes your player in your draft is not necessarily the best player in the draft.

And you have to know that, you have to identify where you can get them, and you have to find a way to get into that sweet spot, give or take a pick, if you want that player. Now it can backfire, and you can look like an idiot. but the best GMs are not afraid to make those type moves to find kind of the sweet spot for a guy because you never want to overpay. This is an economic exercise.

I say it over and over. I got this on Twitter all morning long. Greedy Williams isn't that good. Greedy Williams is that good. What lazy analysis you call them a top 10 pick. Sorry, in the history of America. You started LSU. You make plays for two years.

You six foot two and you run a four three eight. every GM in the league is going to go, yeah, he's going to be a top 10 pick. Again, that does not mean he's going to be a pro bowl player. I think we have to separate the two, and I think that conversation just does not happen enough. Well, I think the entire league thinks that Kyler Murray is going to be on the Arizona Cardinals.

We'll have a pretty good idea well before the draft because they will have trade Josh Rosen. If Josh Rosen is still on the team by the time the draft is here, it'll be pretty clear that they're probably going to take Nick Bosa, or Josh Allen or whoever they like the most. So we'll know in the next week, and I think the entire league expects Josh Rosen to get traded. I expect Josh Rosen to get traded. But we say this all the time in sports.

It matters the most in sports because in a normal company, I'd argue you might be better going to a dysfunctional place when you're young in the real world, not athlete, because it kind of teaches you about things that don't work. Now, we could argue that. I didn't go to a normal job. Like, I worked in college recruiting, and then I worked in the NFL.

But I would imagine, I'm not saying, would you rather, you know, work at some shitty company than Goldman Sachs or Google or something? No. But I don't think it's the worst experience if you are a smart person to work for a dysfunctional place when you're young to kind of see what it looks like.

So then when you're older, you know the mistakes not to make. Well, as a quarterback, when you are drafted, that you definitely want to go to a high-level place because they are dependent on you. They are asking you to be a high-level player from the moment you get there. And when you look at the Cardinals,

let's just say some things we know factually. Their general manager got suspended last year for DUI and has not really had a good couple years. Now, I've defended them, but recently it's been a disaster. The last coach he hired lasted 11 months, and then he missed training camp, because again, his own team suspended him because he got a Dewey. I've been to Scottsdale. I'm actually going there this weekend for a bachelor party. If you get a DUI in Scottsdale, you're a moron, because there are DUI checkpoints everywhere.

Like I said, you're either dumb or you're an alcoholic. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Cliff Kingsbury has been a head coach before, not in the NFL, but in college. and did not have a winning record. Again, that's not emotional, that's a fact. So you combine a GM that hasn't been good lately, that's had some crazy things happening outside of his life, then on the actual field and in his job, he hasn't done a good job.

It just hasn't been going very well. You combine that with a guy that has zero NFL experience, non-player, any coach at any level, and then it's coming from college where he did not win. big. I mean, just overall, it was under 500. If they draft Kyler Murray number one and trade Josh Rosen, Josh Rosen is going to be the guy viewed as the person to save these two guys' careers. Really make Cliff Kingsbury's and save Kimes.

That's a lot of pressure. That is a lot of pressure. Now, maybe he is that good. And I like him a lot. And I'm biased because I just watch a lot of the NFC West, so I wouldn't mind him being in it at all. But this notion that it's the perfect fit, how are the Arizona Cardinals the perfect fit for anyone right now? Their offensive line is god-awful.

Their best receiver is a 40-year-old Larry Fitzgerald. He's a little younger in that. Kirk kid's pretty good from A&M. But again, worst offensive line in the league. Their running back has been an elite player in this year, in this league, but missed two years ago with an injury. last year was kind of not totally his fault

but you get my drift defense not I mean their team was in shambles so just to think that it's it might be a no-brainer for the Cardinals to trade Rosen and I got no problem you see this happen in the NBA all the time when you can upgrade a guy

a year later you trade a lottery pick you just get rid of them like it's if you think Kyler Murray is dramatically better than Josh Rosen you should take Kyler Murray and trade Josh Rosen I have no beef with that but I think you see a lot of of people just saying it's a seamless fit. It's a perfect fit.

Cliff Kingsbury. How do we know Cliff Kingsbury can do anything? He scored some points against Oklahoma State or against Texas, just Texas, or Oklahoma or whoever. I mean, we all watch the Big 12. The defense is terrible. Not like he was winning the games. And it's not like, you know what?

Well, he could never, because you're Texas tech, they were never getting the blue chip recruit. Now he'll have guys on defense. You watch the Cardinals defense? last year? Terrible. God awful. Well, he's got experienced guy named Vance Joseph. You check Vance Joseph's resume. Defense has got worse in Denver and then his one year at coordinator in Miami, I think they ranked 29th or 30th as a defense. So there are to me, I got 50 more question marks on just the Cardinals in general and as an overall football operation than I do Kyler Murray.

So to think that this is just, it's a no-brainer. Now, it might be a no-brainer. Like, of course, Kyler wants to go one. I just don't know. If you're him, would you rather go somewhere else? Is this really where you want to go? Would you rather go end up in New York and play with Sequin and Odo Beckham? And at least Pat Schumer has a resume of having some success in this league.

Hell, would you rather go take your chances with Gruden? Again, that's a pretty big stretch. I'd argue Grude Mayock, just big of a red flag and question mark right now, as Kime and Cliff Kingsbury. Gruden has won before, but I mean, that one we're talking 2002. Last time I checked, I think it's 2019. So I think we better be careful. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversy.

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podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses steve burns dustin ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid

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He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin. Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got to. the ball like after you go through a training camp with that i said you figure it out real quick get your ass up and down the court and you're gonna get the ball so listen to point game on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts what's up guys this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of

stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes hey ref my mom wants you you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Careful, this notion that a guy can come in, it's hard to overcome madness and just weird. and people that are over their head. You've seen it with Carr, and you saw it with Killea Mack and with Amari Cooper.

They did it for a minute in Oakland, and then they were just overcome by dysfunction. Baker kind of did it, you know, for a little bit of the year. We'll see if you can do it for the next couple years. I don't think it's just some lock bet that the Browns are just going to become this power. And we all think it's fair to say that Baker's really good. Can he overcome? Is Freddie Kitch is a good coach? I don't know.

had never called plays in his life before Hugh and Todd got fired. John Dorsey's been a GM one other place. He got fired because he couldn't figure out the salary cap. So let's just, let's pump the brakes a little bit that Kyler Murray Cardinals, perfect fit. Yes, I do believe he warrants going number one overall. Can he overcome Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kimes issues? I don't know. This episode is brought to you by Royal Caribbean, an award-winning global cruise line.

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Terms and conditions apply. You remember a couple years ago, the NFL was really just the go-to move for the media, especially the sports media, just rip it. The ratings are down. Roger Goodell's an asshole. The NFL doesn't care about CDE. The NFL doesn't care about anyone. The NFL is the devil.

It's like, uh, I don't know if that's really the case. The NFL is just a sports league, trying to make money. And it turns out a couple years later, everything's kind of quieted. And the NFL is on top, running circles around the other two leagues. Adam Silver's top players in the NBA, constantly say things that are just so beyond outrageous about how angry and unhappy they are, despite making, you know, $25 to $35 million a year, just an NBA salary, not counting the shoe deals.

NFL players don't really have shoe deals. I think the only guy that got a big shoe deal was Odell Beckham. It kind of is like an NBA player, and his shoe deal was like $5 million a year. To put into context, Kevin Durant is $300. But I think when you looked at the NFL this weekend and the Combine, it, it was just a great television product for happiness. You see all these coaches, everyone just kind of BSing, everyone having a good time. All the players are just so honored to be there.

There were countless videos of multiple guys that ran Devin Y to LSU, I think ran a 4-4-2, then he gets on the phone to his mom and dad and cry. And it was just like, you know what, this is just fun. Because at the end of the day, these guys are achieving their dreams. it's about to become a business, but it's still football. You know, it's still a passion. It's how most of these guys got here. And it was just enjoyable to watch.

And I think one thing the NFL has done a good job of, and it just kind of naturally happened. And I understand why it happened, because when you become that big and that powerful people are going to come at you. Welcome to America. You know, the wind blows fast to the top of the mountaintop. And the NFL is the top of the mountain top. But everything's just about them is kind of becoming fun and cool again.

make the NFL great again, we can argue about the football. It's a little soft for me, but they had to change because CTE became such a big deal. Concussions became such a big deal, and they did. And this year, the NFL, because they have so many good young quarterbacks, about to get another one in Kyler Murray,

and all these players just seem really likable, for the most part, all the first rounders, texting around the league, like all these guys are pretty high character guys, pretty sharp, pretty impressive. The NFL's about to get a pretty good crop of guys coming into the league. And really, for the most part, part they have the last several years. The league is in a great place. There was a story I think

Peter King wrote that very soon, with Stan Cronkey's palace that he's building, the NFL network is going to be in the building. The combine, we're in the last couple years of them being in Indianapolis. They're going to be in L.A., which I like, because going to Indie, for me personally, can be kind of a challenge. But if they're in L.A., it's a 45-minute Southwest flight. I'm excited. I can't wait for it to come to L.A. But when it becomes to LA, he even wrote that they've been talking about making it a prime time event. That's the interest in the NFL. The NFL combine, guys running 40s and jumping vertical jumps and lifting and just having press

conference is going to become a prime time event. Think about the power of that. And to me it just speaks to the NFL is just in a really, really good place right now. and it's just maybe it's the the love of football that this country has. I also think there's just there's something the league has and the setup of the sport

that fits our culture perfectly. The urgency, the every game matters. I mean, what's NBA and Major League Baseball fight? The games in the middle of the season don't mean anything. It doesn't matter if you win or lose. In college and in pro football, every game matters. you can lose some games and still get in

in pro football, but you can't lose too many games because you will not be a playoff team. And here's the other thing the NFL really has going for. I remember growing up, college basketball used to be a really big deal. Because all the NBA players played college basketball for multiple years. So you got to know them. I've been watching Grand Hill until his junior year.

Shaq played at LSU multiple years, AI, multiple years of Georgia. You just watch all these guys. Well, the football, that's never going to change. All these guys go to college. Even if they kind of mail in their third year, you got to go on a ride with a dude at Ohio State or Alabama or USC or wherever. Not really USC anymore. I think first year in like 35 years,

they didn't send an underclassman to the combine. We get to know these guys. I've been hearing about Rash... Even if you're just a casual football fan, you're like, God, I've been hearing about Rashon and Gary for a couple years at Michigan. I've been here to Devon White or Greedy Williams for two years. All these teams playing big games. all the Ohio State guys, Bosa.

Now, he's a little unique because of brother, but all the Clemson guys. It's just, it's the NFL's the setup of it, and then when you factor in one season starts with gambling, the other leagues just can't hang. And we already just naturally like football more. Now, me personally, I'm just a unique sports fan. I watch so much of everything.

I actually like the PGA tour the best. But it's just, there's something about the league that the other two are just, They can't replicate. In baseball, because of the draft, they can't. There's nothing you can do because we don't watch college of baseball. But basketball, the one powerful thing they used to have is they'd have superstars playing college basketball for multiple years. And when you do that, the draft becomes bigger.

Because even Kyler Murray, who's a one-year starter, he's obviously the cash cow in this draft. You need quarterbacks. Last year, that's why last year was so big. Johnny Manzell's year, Tim Tebow. you need a polarizing quarterback. But you also just need other guys that we know who they are. You know, the year that Clownie came out, Khalil Mack, that whole draft, O'Dell Beckham, all those guys,

we had just heard about Brandon Cooks and Oregon State. JJ Watt, I remember the draft I actually attended for the Eagles, but you even, Cam Newton went one, but you could siphon him out just all the other players. You had heard about forever. You're like, God, I've been hearing about Michael Brockers for a while, or JJ Watt, this guy at Wisconsin. They just become kind of in our vernacular because even if you're a casual college football fan,

you're going to stumble into the big games. And the big teams usually have the top guys. I think the NFL is in a fantastic place right now. We're always going to complain about replay, about certain things. But I think this weekend kind of just put the NFL on a pedestal, just how happy and fun it was. And my guy, DJ, I said last week, he means a lot to me personally for him helping me out professionally. He was really good. And it was just fun. Him and Rich are fun. And the NFL former players they have on the field, just a good event. Now, you can make fun of the underwear

Olympics all you want. It was really enjoyable for me. And I think a lot of people, I went out on Saturday night, met this girl, and she was at some birthday party, and a bunch of guys came up to me. And, you know, I'm humble brag. You're like, I'm a middle cop. We love you on Twitter. But all But in all seriousness, all they want to talk about was, God, do you see D.K. Mekkaft? God, do you think one guy was a Jets fan? Another guy was a Lions fan with a bunch of Bear, Niner, and Raider fans, but they all wanted to ask about, you think we can get this guy then? And that's just something special the NFL has going for it. The Combine meets college football, meets the power of the draft, and it's only going to get

bigger because in a couple years, they ain't going to go back to Indy. They're going to L.A. and it's going to be Hollywood. Antonio Brown. I don't know if we've ever quite seen a human, definitely an athlete in the prime of their career, go as scorched earth as he's going. Now, he's saying just some incredible things,

and I find him pretty entertaining, and I don't even think he's lying or wrong about the things he was saying. I'm going to try to load a video right now, see if I can do it. That's how a guy he is. He doesn't feel like he's the owner. Bro, you threw this shit to the deal line, man. That's an incredible comment.

That's incredible. I've watched that video, I don't know, 500 times this weekend. He's not wrong. The Ben is a major red flag. He blames everyone else. He, on that, what he was talking about on that specific play against the Denver Broncos, Antonio Brown was somewhat open. Ben screwed up.

And Ben never taken. takes responsibility. But A.B., you've been in the NFL long enough. You're not a 20-year-old player. You're 31 years old. A couple things. You just don't get credit. Like, I'm a humble guy from six-round. Okay, you're now three contracts later, the best receiver in the league. You work hard. We get that. But you just go and scorched earth on a quarterback, even if you're not wrong, and we all think he's a little bit of a fraud, though he's earned the right and proven he's one of the Hall of Fame quarterback, you're not going to win that battle. Here's the other thing.

If LeBron James and his people, which I think is a little screwed up, that LeBron claims he's this player-friendly guy, LeBron never says a goddamn thing on the show, but Antonio Brown, who says by far, probably the best comment they were ever going to get on the shop, just hurts himself. If LeBron really cared about Antonio Brown, if that's John Middletoff's show,

and I'm just a media guy, guy, I wouldn't go, hey Antonio, I'm going to cut that out. But LeBron, who is a player and doesn't need the money, could be like, you know, let's save this until you're traded, because this is not going to help your cause. They made him look bad. And again, Antonio is not lying or is not technically wrong. It is kind of stupid that the teams just want guys to just lie to the media, even though we all know what's really going on. Like, Ben screws up a lot, and he refuses to take responsibility. One time when he threw the pick in another game, remember the fake spike pick. I can't remember who they were playing. He blamed Todd Haley. That Todd Haley, that Ben wanted to spike

it, that Todd Haley told him that. This is a blatant lie. But Antonio Brown is still on the Steelers. He's trying to get traded. If you're trying to get traded and he's been in the league long enough, just go silent. Just go radio silent. Then after you're traded, if you want to go score stirth and people go, why does Antonio Brown care about ruining his own trade value and what the Steelers get back? Because he's not just ruining his own trade value. He's making it.

Kevin Colbert said last week, when he had been on the trade block for like two weeks, that three teams had called. This was a guy that had averaged 11 or 11 catches for the last six years and 11 touchdowns. And I think like I did the math a couple weeks ago, like 1,200 yards. He's on one of the great. six-year stretches we've ever seen in league history. And he's under contract.

And three teams called? Because it's stuff like that. And I've defended Drew Rosenhouse, even though he unfollowed me on Twitter like a year ago, that maybe I was crushing one of his clients, that Drew used to be kind of crazy, and it's kind of how he made his mark. But the last 10 years,

Drew realizes I'm making way too much money. I need to be in with the GMs, and my players, I can balance it. This is not the way to handle it. The T.O. style does not work. It makes your client look like an idiot. Now, again, I actually kind of, he's growing on me. I love, because he's not wrong.

But he keeps bringing up this humble six-rounder. Bro, you get helicoptered to training camp. So we get it. You work hard. I mean, this is the NFL. A lot of guys work hard. You're really good. But to just shit on everyone that you've been around for the last five years

is not going to help your cause to get out of there. Now, you could argue that, and someone brought this up, could you trade Ben Rathesberger and keep Antonio Brown? Maybe, you know, try to get Josh Rosen or something? That's not crazy, but that's not the way the league works, not with a guy of Ben Statcher. And they're, they're in bed with Ben. It's just, they're all in. It's too late. So Antonio, they're going to not choose you, and clearly you don't want them to choose you. But if you want to help your ability to get out of town, stop talking. It's funny. for me and I love ripping the video

and tweeting it out or putting it on Instagram but it is not good for you because you are way too good of a player for three teams in the NFL to call. Do you know what Kevin Colbert should have said? 31 teams called and 31 teams called then again the next day. Three teams? It shows you.

Antonio Brown who people in my position love. He's fun. He's just crushing people. He looks like, remember if you guys ever seen the movie you can't even answer this, but I'll just throw it out there to myself. Commando, Arnold Schwarzenegger, mid-80s, shows up on that island by himself with all the guns and just takes on the whole island. That's what Antonio Brown is doing right now to everyone who's been involved with him with the Steelers.

And I just don't think it's going to benefit him big picture. Okay, let's get into the Biddlekopf mailback. Easiest way to get a hold of me at John Middilkoff is my Instagram handle. You slide up in those DMs, and then I answer questions. Why do you think OBJ will be on the 9th? by the end of March. I said this on Twitter. Gut feeling resources.

I think it's a combination of two things. One, I know for a fact the Niners really want them. Two, I know for a fact the Giants' management, Gettelman-Shermer, some combination, are more than open to trading. Now, the one thing I am not sure about, I don't know anything about this guy, is the owner of the Giants.

Most teams, when you trade a player, the owner gives you, that's why they pay you in the NFL, their coaches and GM so much money. But a player of OBJ's stature, just because he's so famous, John Marr would have to sign off on that. They paid him, I think, $20 million bonus last year. Now, I'll say this. I do think it's easier to stomach if you get swap 2 and 6 and get a second round pick and next year's, let's say, a second round pick. That's a lot for OBJ, a guy that you may not really want. Will John Mara sign off on that? That would be the one reason why I'm not going to say it's 100% happening.

My gut says it does happen, though, because they have their new star in Seguan-Barkley, and they need a quarterback. So you get up to two, you take Dwayne Haskins. I think you could also do this. You could take Bosa at two, then use one of those two second-round picks to take a quarterback. behind Eli. And they said that, you know, I think Gettleman went on record at the combine saying

that he wants to model after the Kansas City Chiefs. You have Eli mentor a guy. Well, didn't they take Kyle Luleta two years ago in the second round? I think the Giants are a dumpster fire. And I also think they just kind of want to reset and get rid of Odell Beckham. So, yeah, it's a combination of sources, gut feeling, and just kind of the perfect time. And I just think the Niners are going to be really aggressive in their pursuit of Odell Beckham. Okay, John, huge patriot fan from the UK. I'm a fan of Daniel Jones Duke. And everything I've seen from him seems like he'd be a great fit in New England behind Brady.

Any thoughts? Do you think he will fall far enough? Do you think Bill would be interested? And if not, where do you envision him landing? Yeah, I can see that. Do they take a quarterback at 32? I don't know if it's crazy just because they have two seconds and three, threes. So they go, well, we basically get an extra first round pick because Isaiah

win will be coming back from his Achilles injury. We drafted him in the first. If we love a quarterback, Daniel Jones, I'll be honest, I haven't watched that much of Daniel Jones besides the senior bowl and maybe the bowl game. I don't really like any of these quarterbacks beside the top two, but if Bill wants to draft him in the first round, he knows what he's doing. The highest quarterback he's ever drafted is Jimmy Garoplo. Turn out he's pretty good. So, and just look, he's had a lot of NFL guys beside that over the years. And Hoyer, I guess Mettenberger was a miss. But you know what I'm saying?

If Bill's going to draft a guy high, he's going to hit him. Hit on him. So I guess it's not crazy they could use that pick 32 on a quarterback. When you just factor in, they have so many picks in the next two rounds. And they could pair two threes to get back up in the second. They could do a lot. So yeah, I think there's a decent chance at the end of this draft, or let's just say at the end of Friday. So between pick 32, there are two-twos and three-threes that the New England Patriots draft a quarterback.

Tom Brady, go. He's also 41 years old. Got to be 42, then 43. I mean, how long can the guy play? The answer right now would probably be forever. Hey, John, listen to you since the summer and can't get enough. I like you, dog. Lifelong Patriot fan.

Should we use our first round pick on a two? tight end or a pass rusher. Well, this guy just asked about Daniel Jones. I would say this. If Gronk retires, and even if he doesn't retire, they're going to take a tight end. And if Fant, if the other guy from Iowa that I know DJ on NFL Network likes more, I can't, Hishmanada, Housman Zada, that's not his name, but it starts with an age. They could take either one of those guys, they'll both probably be gone.

I think they could easily justify a Nikiel Harry, you know, a Keem Butler, a guy like that, take a big body target. For as good as Gronk is, the one thing he always brought to them was a big red zone target and just a down-the-field target for Brady. They can't just completely depend on Edelman and Hogan and

all the little white guys that they draft. But they're going to need a big target, so I would go, Belichick's not big on taking receivers really high. Though he did trade a first round pick once upon a time for Brandon Cooks. Could he trade

pick 32 for a player. You know, the Steelers and the Giants are not going to trade them. Odell Beckham, so I don't really think that's an option. I haven't really read or heard about any of the big-time receivers being on the block. Would Atlanta trade of Julio? They definitely need more offensive weapons, which is crazy because they just won their second Super Bowl in three years. So do they really? I don't know.

It's a question. Super niche mailbag question. Are you four against college hoops walk-on on the winning team coming in late in a blowout and trying to get buckets. Frame of reference. I like where this question's going. I watched a Cal State Fullerton kid drill an and won against your alma mater yesterday.

And wouldn't have batted an eye had I not seen Cal Poly was the other team. And immediately my brain jumps to where you land on the widespread practice and hoops. Love the pod. You know, what's funny is I wouldn't have really known this was going on until I was, I went to a Sacramento Kings game with a bunch of buddies on Friday night. Mom lives in Davis. If for those references, it's like 15 minutes away from Sack. Well,

I live in the Bay Area. It's about 45 minute drive home. So I got up really early. After a long night of drinking, no big deal. Went right to the gym, sweated it out. And I drove home and I was listening to you know, early in the morning during the fall, they simulcast college game day. Well, they do the same thing in basketball. So I'm listening to Jay

Billis and they were talking about these college walk-ons coming in late in games. Slash like team managers. I got no issue with it. You know, it's a blowout game. I don't get offended. You know, maybe if you're in junior high or even high school, there's a way to handle blowouts and non-blowouts.

Once you get to Division I basketball, it doesn't happen in football, I guess. Well, I mean, could you be offended by, what's his name? Jake, I can't think of it. I want to say Jake Long, but it's not Jake Long. Jake something. God, I can't believe he can't see. In USC in certain situations put him in games. Jake Ryan, no.

I'm scru-not. I'm butchering his last name. But he's blind. He's on the team. And in blowouts, they'll talk to the other coach if they're in that situation. And he'll come in the, I mean, let some kids have some fun. So my first reaction is once you get to D1, college, basketball, football, any pro sport, I have zero. I repeat zero sympathy.

For the team getting their ass kicked that gets mad about some weird practice, whether it's getting a young quarterback rep and still throwing deep bombs, whether it's shooting three-point shots, you know, in a blowout. I always say this in basketball. If you're up like 40 with five minutes left, let's just say it's a college game. What's the kids supposed to do? Just dribble out the 30-second shock clock every, what's the college basketball? 35 seconds?

30 seconds now, same NBA, 24. What are you supposed to do? Just throw the ball out of bounds? the end of the shot clock? No, you got to shoot the shot. So who cares? Stop. This is the big leagues slash high-level college basketball. You gotta stop them. Hey John, thanks for reading this. I wanted

to know if you ever checked out some rugby. Las Vegas is hosting their international sevens tourney this weekend. I did stumble upon the rugby sevens. I had a bunch of buddies at Cal Poly that played in college. New some guys that played a cow that was, you know, the powerhouse in rugby

forever. I got no issues with rugby, actually. If you just show me a sweet rugby game, I just don't really know the rules that well. Because I always like rugby more than soccer. Now I've kind of grown to like soccer more than rugby. There is no disputing. To play a high level of rugby,

some of these international games, when you see Australia play New Zealand or the UK, those guys are badasses. They're not wearing pads. They're hitting each other. I've always said, though, if our best, I said this about soccer, but I know, you could make the argument,

soccer is such a skilled sport. that even if our best athletes play soccer, we still might not win in soccer, I would probably disagree with you, but I understand it. You will never, ever convince me. If our best athletes and our badasses that play in the NFL,

some little guys that play in the NBA, the Mike Troutts, even in baseball, focus on rugby, we'd be the best rugby country in the world. I don't think it would be close. I'll believe that until the day I die. I may have missed it, but I haven't heard you mention Robert Kraft,

and the pinging allegations against him, for solicitation. Considering a high percent of prostitutes are victim of human trafficking, your platform go a long way of shedding light on how disgusting it is. Maybe you're waiting until more info comes out. I said that I've talked about it on all my other platforms. I think it's pretty simple. That everyone that I've ever talked to about massage parlors,

call it a rub and tug. Every single person, every single where you go. People, when you bring up a massage parlor, I got six or seven in my community. I don't like massage parlors. So I just don't go. But we all know what goes on in these things. So whether you're super famous like Robert Kraft,

just nobody, people go. Prostitution is the longest running profession in America. Now, I know nothing about human trafficking, but here's what I do know. That Robert Kraft did not go, it's not financing the human trafficking. I look at it upon, like, yeah, if the women are being held against their will,

it is, I don't even know what to say. I can't even begin to, it's just awful. That's beyond disgusting. But all those men that went in there had no clue. So, and I've seen this analogy, and I do think it, you know, has some parallels. Forever, people went to jail if you bought a bag of wheat. Now it's legal where I live.

I think you could use, if you bought cocaine, like you went to party in Vegas. If you buy a bag of cocaine, do you agree with the, with the cartels, they're killing a bunch of people in Mexico? No. Now, it's a little different

because you don't necessarily see the death, and technically, if you solicit a prostitute, you are, if she's being held against your will, I mean, that's pretty bad, but you don't know. Robert Kraft didn't know. He just went to get a release. It really is that simple, that black and white.

So did he break the law? Sure, we could argue, where did the law even start? It's kind of arbitrary, right? Because there's, I know, about four hours away from me in Nevada, it's legal. Now, the women, the details that I've read is it was not, these women, they're trying to nail them on human trafficking are not corroborating. Now, you could read other things that they, of course, they're not cooperated, they're being held.

Why aren't they going after the people that trafficked these women? I think it is a complete waste of time to get some 77-year-old man unless he financed the human trafficking, which I think we can all safely assume he had nothing. to do with, wasting time going after Robert Kraft. To me, this is very politically driven that, oh, it's really famous, they nailed Robert Kraft. Why don't you nail the people that are setting up all this human trafficking? Like, I'm sorry, I just not offended by prostitution. It's the longest running profession in the history of the world. Why? Because of men and women. It's just, it's, that's, Google it. Longest running profession, history of America,

prostitution, because people are willing to pay for sex. I also say, of the everyone on Twitter was just flabbergasted that Robert Kraft went into one of these places. Even though once you get off Twitter and everyone you talk to, everywhere you've ever been, whether you're in San Francisco, whether you're in Philadelphia, whether you're in Texas, everyone jokes about when they drive by a massage parlor, oh, that's what's going on in there. So then everyone's shocked? I just think it's very disingenuous. If Robert Kraft had anything to do with the human trafficking, he should immediately go to jail. But again, I think it is beyond safe to assume he had nothing to do with it. He went in

for a release and he got one. Am I supposed to think that he deserves jail time? No, I think it's a complete waste of time. I think the police should spend less time going after Robert Kraft

and more time going after the people that's set up if those women are being human trafficking which again has not been confirmed and it sure hasn't broken yet that's what's going on. That's what was said but as we've seen

you've got to be careful with headlines Jesse Smollett a couple weeks ago had everyone thinking one thing and then another thing happened. So yeah, I mean, is human trafficking? I'm not naive, probably the wrong word. I know nothing really about it. Beside that it's a beyond terrible, despicable, disgusting thing

that goes on in the world. But to think that I look at Robert Kraft any differently than like most men that walk into these places, and again, I have five or six massage parlors in my own community, in Walnut Creek, I'll promise you one thing. Not all the moms in this area are keeping them in business. So it'd be naive to think that that's not how these things stay up and running.

That's my, you know, it's probably not the most PC thing to say, but that's just a fact. Bagels fan here and consistent listener. Steelers are a mess and I personally believe the Ravens can't be consistently competitive with Lamar. Browns are undoubtedly improved but still feel like a wild card type team. How far out are the Bengals in the AFRs? See North. Mixed in Green, Dunlap, Jackson, 3rd, Gino, are elite talents. We can't be that far off, can we? I think Andy Dalton will have to play really well again.

AJ Green would have to stay healthy. They have huge question marks with the head coach. I mean, he's a quarterback coach. He's super young. Can the guy be a head coach in the NFL? For every Sean McVeigh, there are a lot of failures of all ages. So, yeah, the roster is not that terrible, and they just, they were actually sneaky humming this year.

What, or do they start pretty well? Was it five and one or four and four and one? They just had a ton of injuries. But to think that Zach Taylor, it went bad for Marvin, but the chances that Zach Taylor ever has the resume as a head coach of Marvin Lewis, it's slim to none. So, yeah, I don't think it's crazy. They're not that far away.

But the difference in the NFL of being pretty close and being a disaster is pretty slim. All these coaches is cliche to say, game of inches, game of bounce ball here and there. The difference of 6 and 10 and 9 and 7 is legitimately 4 or 5 plays and one broken leg or a torn ACL. Now the difference of 4 and 12 and 11 and 5

is a lot bigger, but when you go 9 and 7, you just like, God, we were a play away from 10 and 6. When you go 6 and 10, you feel like it. three or four went. It feels like you're going to be drafting in the top five. So I just don't. His press conference was impressive.

Watched him since Nebraska when he was a player. But actually doing it as a head coach is hard. We just do not know. And until he coaches some games, and it's not like Andy Dalton is this quarterback that anyone can coach. He's kind of a niche guy. He's had some moments with the right coordinator. and some really good defenses.

Jack Taylor couldn't even hire a defensive coordinator. Took him like seven guys turned him down. The more I talk about it, the more I don't feel that good. What do you think the Bears will do in terms of free agency and the draft? Key positions, trades, free agents, and signings. Well, Callahan, the slot receiver, I think they're going to try to resign. They resigned or extended before free agency Bobby Massey, right? So they got their offensive line pretty well together.

They restructured Kyle Long's contract. I think Jordan Howard will be a guy that they look to trade. And they could probably get a fourth round pick for him. They don't have a first round pick the next two years because of Cleo Mac. Now, they got Cleo Mac, so who cares? Their second round pick's not that good because it's way down the line. Now, luckily, they got the Raiders second next year because of a pick swap. So even though they don't have the first round pick next year,

they should keep their fingers crossed that the Raiders suck again. So then they're going to have a really high second round pick. When I think about the Bears, their defense is pretty stacked. D-line is incredible. They still got Danny and Roquan's a second-year player. Their secondary, Fuller's under contract, Prince is under contract, Eddie Jackson's still young. Their defense is pretty set.

So let's go to offense. They probably need a more perfect running back in Nagy system. Like they need a Kareem Hunt type. So will they draft a running back that fits Nagy to go with Terri Kone when they trade Jordan Howard? To me, that makes some sense. They got some young tight ends. they got Alan Robinson.

They could probably draft another wide receiver. If Mitch gets better, their team is already kind of ready to roll. The Bears on paper pretty good. Question for the pod. Do you see Patriots drafting Tom Brady's future already kind of talked about that? If so, what round and what prospect?

I say over and over. I don't really like any of these quarterbacks besides Haskins and Murray. Now, to be fair, I'm not a scout anymore, so I'm not just like dive and diving into the tape. but I got no life. So Saturdays for 15 straight weeks, I watched college football all day.

And in my living room, I got multiple TVs. Will Greer to me, you know, kind of a poor, kind of Mason Rudolphy. Daniel Jones is interesting, but, eh. Who are the other? I mean, besides Haskins and Kyler Murray, Gardner Minshue almost quit football

and went to coach for Nick Saban before Mike Leach signed him last year. Jake Browning stinks. I just, I don't know. You know, maybe Bill drafts one. In Bill Belichick, I trust. But until he pulls the trigger, I'm going to stay lukewarm on this class. For a team like the Denver Broncos with multiple coaching changes in a short period of time,

what is the impact on the scouting department? Do they have to adjust a new profile and align to the coach's style ignored to avoid bias? I think it's really hard. Because schemes can change and it's easy to go, well, we don't like that type guy, we like this type guy. We ran a 4-3, but Vic Vanjo's going to run a 3-4. That type's easy. But what do they really look for?

If you work with a coach for five or six years and multiple assistants, you kind of know how they think. What type guys they like? The Broncos, they change like every other year. How can they have any consistency? Here's the other thing. Elway lost his right-hand guy in Adam Peters to John Lynch. That was a person pretty important.

I guess he still has Matt Russell. But yeah, it's really difficult. You know, we all can, you don't need to be, you know, Ozzie Newsom to go, you know, if we run a Seattle type defense, the type players we look for, or Vic Fangio type defense, the players he's going to look for. But what players does he truly like? You ask the guys, the scouting guys,

and I got a couple buddies on the staff, non-coaching staff, but on the scouting staff, about Vic Fangio, they know what he likes, what specific play, like everyone's going to like Cleo Mac, but why he liked Akeem Hicks, or why he liked Roquan Smith, or why he loved Eddie Jackson. You just know exactly what he's looking for. And we got no clue what these guys are looking for on offense.

So it's, I mean, I was with Andy for two and a half years, and then Chip came that last six months. I only lasted until the draft. It was really hard for all those guys. Now, Chip is really extreme. You know, Vic won't be that extreme, but Vic's also never been a head coach. coach. So, yeah, you know exactly what he's going to look for on defense, and I think they can

figure that out fast. But what does he want on off? I don't even know what his offensive philosophy is. Run? Pass? Who knows? We're about to find out. Thanks for listening. If I didn't get your question, I'll get to it on Friday. Can't wait. This was a fun podcast. Good time of year for some NFL, college football, combine. We'll just keep it rolling, baby. Have a good week. Three and out podcast, John Middlecough. Adios. the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with one 800 flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate covered berries, gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your Valentine with 1,800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for 3999, or upgrade to 24

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What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Dude. Hey, Rhett, Mom, I want you to wave at. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of it. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis coming to, he's like, you know, I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.