The Herd with Colin Cowherd - No Such Thing As Too Many QB's

Episode Date: August 22, 2019

Colin discusses the importance of drafting QBs, when Tom Brady retires, and what the Steelers are probably thinking watching Hard Knocks. Guests include Mark Schlereth, Greg Cosell, John Elway, and Jason McIntyre.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The story I told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown, If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app.

by searching herd. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Thursday. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We are live in Los Angeles on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Greg CoSell, one hour from now, NFL meat sandwich. Joy Taylor is joining me as we, today we're packed.

Tonight is the beginning of. of a bunch of good week three NFL preseason games. Starters will play tonight. It's a cross your fingers night. Nobody gets hurt night. It really feels like the official start of football tonight. The official start of the NFL season is tonight where starters play. Some guys like Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield may play into the second half over the next three or four days.

Veteran players, obviously, in New England, they want to know who's going to be the backup, not Tom Brady. Aaron Rogers, it looks like we'll play. I'm going to give you two headlines today. start with the first one. They both sound controversial, and they're both regarding iconic first ballot Hall of Fame talents. Here is the first controversial headline. Packers must make drafting quarterback a high priority. It was in USA today. Whoa, clickbait, fake news. No, not at all. I don't understand, and I've watched the NFL draft my entire adult life. I don't get why teams don't draft a quarterback every year or every other year.

It doesn't matter if you have Patrick Mahomes. It doesn't matter if you have James Winston or you have somebody in the middle of the pack, Dak Prescott or Cam Newton. It's the only position in the NFL that you can draft it. And if you've got a great player at quarterback, you don't even have to play him and he can have increased value. You draft somebody behind Aaron Rogers. He learns from Aaron Rogers, just like Aaron learned from Brett Fav.

And two years later, you can move the pick for where you drafted. Jimmy Garoppolo was more valuable having sat behind Tom Brady and gotten hurt than he was out of college. New England has drafted 10 quarterbacks since they first won a lot of. a Super Bowl. Fourth round, third round, third round, third round, second round, third round, fourth round. Good draft picks. And they would be able to trade those picks and get equal or higher value for them. This sounds like a controversial headline.

Of course Green Bay should draft quarterbacks every year. They've drafted two since Aaron Rogers started. And every time he twists an ankle, it's man overboard in Green Bay. So if you have a great quarterback, Big Ben, Mahomes, Luck. You draft the quarterback, third or fourth round, because your first couple of rounds are where you get your stars and where you plug your holes. This is a league that has viable free agency. You plug your holes with free agency in the first two rounds of the draft. By round three, 35% of the players are busts. They're whiffs. They can't play. So if you have a great quarterback, you draft them, let them learn your system and move them as you get the next guy.

for equal value. If you have one of those really, really, haven't we seen enough quarterbacks? You know, Andy Dalton, James Winston, Marcus Mariotta, I'd argue Cam Newton, some would argue Kirk Cousins, you obviously draft a quarterback because they're not taking you to a special place. And if you have a bad quarterback situation, of course you draft him. The NFL draft is fascinating, is that there's all sorts of. to tricks to it. It has changed. The most important position in football is the

quarterback position. Look at what we draft now at quarterback and what we use to draft. Like, I don't get this. The league has become solely overwhelmingly about what position quarterback. I would draft it every year. I don't care if I have Patrick Mahomes. I'm going to bring in Patrick Mahal. I'm going to draft a third round pick to a fourth round pick every year in Kansas City. I'm going to take that quarterback. He's going to learn from Andy Reed and Patrick Mahomes, and A, he's a safeguard in case Patrick gets hurt, and B, if he's not, I can trade that pick in three years and get equal value.

So it's not a bust pick. It's just something I don't get about the draft. By the way, most young quarterbacks I really like. Carson Wentz, injuries. Deshawn Watson injuries. I mean, a lot of these guys that I like, Carson Wentz, Andrew Luck, Deshawn Watson. I got injury concerns. I think that sounds like a controversial headline, and it's an obvious headline.

Of course Green Bay should draft a quarterback. They don't have a ton of holes to fill in this roster. They needed a center, a safety, and a tight end. They went and drafted all those positions. They should take a second, third round pick, learn from Aaron, sit behind Aaron. Maybe he's the next Aaron. If not, trade him for equal value two, three years later. Here's the second headline, which sounds.

controversial. Adam Schaefter acknowledges this could be the last season for Tom Brady. Whoa, clickbait, fake news, trying to get attention. No, let's listen to Adam Schaefter's thoughts on this. People forget that people have lives and they have families, and sometimes, you know, you want to do what's best for your wife or your kids, and Tom is 42 now, and I'm sure that his family has sacrificed plenty for him to do what he's done and to be as dedicated as he is to his job to do it at the level he has. So again, if it's me just looking at it from the

outside, I'm just reading the signs, right? His home is for sale. He's on a contract at Voids. It's just saying that this has the potential one way or another for this to be his last season in New England. Of course it does, and it's really happening soon, and it's really happening soon, and it's going to change the National Football League dramatically. Listen, if you look at the greatest quarterbacks of all time, there are no exceptions here. They all had great coaches. There is no great quarterback who had a stiff as a coach.

Bradshaw had Chuck Knoll. Okay. Montana had Walsh. Fouts had Air Correel. Aikman had Jimmy Johnson. Tom Brady has Belichick. Marino had Shula. Elway had Shanahan.

You know, it doesn't, there is no, God, he was a great quarterback. Roger Stobach, had Tom Landry. Okay, so Belichick and Brady, I don't give a rip who gets the credit. They are the league's pattern. Brady can play poorly, Ram Super Bowl, and Belichick beats you. He completely works Sean McVeigh. Or it's not Belichick's best game plan, Philadelphia, but Brady throws for 500 yards. You have to have both.

And to me, what's clear in the NFL, this is not a controversial headline. This is going to happen soon, and it is going to open the door for Andy Reed and Patrick Mahomes. I think there are five quarterback head coaching combos that have a chance. And I think Reed and Mahomes feels like over the next 10 to 12 years, they'll have the greatest opportunity to be in the Walsh, Montana, Aikman, Jimmy. Bradshaw, Noel, Brady Belichick, Elway Shanahan model. I think, though, for me, Mahomes and Andy Reid is it. I'm going to get a great coach, a great quarterback, a great GM.

I'm going to get stability from the franchise. They draft well. They have dysfunction in their division. Currently, Oakland. And in two years, I think the Chargers, Denver, and Oakland could all have new quarterbacks. If I had to rate them right now, because the league has to be. no exceptions. You find an all-time great quarterback who wins Super Bowls or gets close.

They all have great coaches. I'd go Mahomes Reid number one. If you told me next 12 years, who's the next quarterback coach dynasty? I'd go read Mahomes one, Goff McVeigh two, Wentz-Petersen 3, Luck Wright 4, and Wilson Pete Carroll 5. Now Pete's getting up there. I don't think Pete has probably four years to coach, maybe five. That's why I put them fifth. I can't put Garoppolo Kyle Shanahan because I have questions about Garoppolo's health. And frankly, how good is he? I think he's good. I don't know. But what Schefter is saying, this is not even, it's close. And when Tom leaves, it is going to open the door wide open. And we have four or five coach quarterback combos, which in my opinion, as long as the quarterback can stay healthy,

Wentz, luck, we have a chance to see a next dynasty here. And I think Reed and Mahomes feels like 12 years, five Super Bowls. Not saying they'll win all of them, they'll get to half of them. That's what it feels like to me. Good stuff today. Coming up next, of course, Pittsburgh can't take their eyes off hard knocks and Antoni. Brown. The ratings are in and Pittsburgh's freaking out and some thoughts on that coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports

Radio, FS1 and the IHard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior. And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This mental health awareness month,

tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness. emotional well-being and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection.

If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the player. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out. real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the

iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So the ratings are in for HBO's hard knocks and Pittsburgh is watching more than any city in America per capita. The ratings have tripled in Pittsburgh for hard

knocks. And so they've been fantastic and A.B. went to Twitter yesterday and said tweet my ex-Sil thinks of me. Well, of course she does. Watching your ex implode on Facebook is a hoot. It's absolutely validating. Pittsburgh's a stable organization. They don't have a lot of dumpster fires. So to watch one of their stars go to Oakland and be a tire fire on the side of the road is absolutely captivating. Listen, when LeBron left Cleveland and went to Miami, you know the second highest ratings

every year in the NBA for the finals? It was Cleveland. If Tom Brady left New England, you don't I don't think Boston would watch him if he went and played for the Chargers or the Miami Dolphins? Of course they would. But I think narcissism is a hell of a drug. I think AB thinks they're, you know, A.B thinks they miss me. I think the Steelers are like, oh my God, what a mess. I think they're laughing at him. Listen, we have a history.

Fans see this. Production leaves teams in trouble. We have a history at this position. Ocho Cinco left. Bengals got better. Marvin Harrison left. Colts won more games. Randy Moss left. Patriots went 14 and 2. T.O. left three times.

Three different teams got better. Des Bryant left Cowboys. Cowboys got better. I think the New York Giants, and this is not a shot at OBJ, will win more games this year without OBJ. Star receivers are demanding. Of the 16 interceptions Big Ben through last year, 10 were targeting Antonio Brown.

Star receivers that are verbal and noisy create an environment offensively where you do feel like I've got to feed them the ball sometimes to your detriment. I think Pittsburgh, I think fans are underestimating Pittsburgh. I think Vegas is underestimating Pittsburgh. I think the media is underestimating Pittsburgh.

They're over-under, that's called a future bet in Vegas, is nine. I think it's one of the best bets on the board in Vegas. Steelers over nine. And I'm generally a believer, take the under on over unders. I almost always bet fans tend to feel their teams are better. I am general rule bet the under in Vegas. Pittsburgh's bet the over.

I don't think people understand how motivated Big Ben is. I don't think they understand how motivated Juju Smith-Schuster and James Washington are. I think if you look at Pittsburgh, look at their last six games. They will have the best quarterback and the best offensive line in six of their last six games. At CINC, hosting Cleveland, at Arizona, Buffalo, at the Jets, and at the Ravens. They will have the best quarterback and the best O line and the most experienced coach in every one of those games. That feels like five and one to me. So, you know, yes, of course Pittsburgh is watching hard knocks.

Everybody goes to Facebook after the breakup, and it's wildly entertaining when the X is imploding. And A, B, to some degree, with Oakland until yesterday, felt like he was imploding. But I don't think, I don't think they miss their X. I think they're laughing at their ex. Here's Joy with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So the Cowboys' ongoing contract soap opera continues. The latest chapter comes from Stephen Jones, who took a veiled shot at Zeke's agents by telling the media yesterday. I have a lot of respect for most agents. I really do. I think they're trying to do their job for these players. But I do think sometimes they don't have the same end game that maybe the player should and that we do.

Not really a veiled shot, kind of just basically said everything but his name. Look, Zeke's agent is a legitimate agent. It's not like he's, I don't think he's being duped or pressured or influenced to do something negative. Yes. I don't love him being in Cabo right now, whether it's a state of a art facility, the greatest training facility on planet Earth. It's still in Cabo and there's a connotation there that implies that you're sitting around and drinking margaritas or what you like to say, guava smoothies. Yes. I enjoy margaritas when we go to Cabo. I enjoy those too.

It should be noted. No, the optics aren't good on this. I don't think he's down there partying, but it's just not great optics. So I don't think the advice in that regard is great. I would be exactly where the Cowboys are practicing just in a different facility the entire time. I would want my teammates to think, yes, I'm holding out. Yes, I'm trying to get, you know, secure my future. But I also very much care about what you're going through in training camp,

and I want to be near that energy as opposed to being in Cabo out of sight. pretty much out of mind for everyone I'm sure that's at training camp because while we're talking about this everyone else is just worried about the season and getting ready for that. I don't think Zeke is being duped by this agent, but I do think like doctors and pilots, there's differences in the quality of competency. Sully Sullenberger lost an engine and landed on the Hudson and nobody got a twisted ankle. then you hear stories about planes. Pilots run a deep conversation about their girlfriend and hit a mountain.

I've had bad doctors. I've had some great doctors. I've had four agents. One great agent. Not that the other ones weren't competent. So there are competency levels. Tom Condon has been doing this for 100 years. Rocky Arsenal doesn't have another huge client.

Zique is his guy. That doesn't mean Rocky Arsenal's incompetent. But to your point, I don't like the Cabo optics. And I'll tell you this, I believe with all my heart that Jerry backed an immature young player and really went to the wall for him. I think Jerry's pissed. I think Jerry feels like, okay, I went to the wall for you. And two years out, then the optics are going to Mexico? So I think there's some animus here with Jerry.

There's some animosity from Jerry for sure. and that's obviously going to probably be shared by Stephen Jones as well. But, you know, agents make money when you make money. If you're paying an agent and you're not making any money, you are actually being dup. So, yes, there is some investment in this agent getting Zeeke this major contracts, of course. But I think there's a lot of those personal feelings going on here with Jerry that are playing a role in whether he's going to get this extension done soon or not. So Leveon Bell is doing everything he can to make sure he is ready for his return to football after a year away. And since he won't be playing in the preseason, Levyon has a request from his teammates.

They kind of look at me like, we don't want to hurt him in practice, you know, but at the same time, I tell them, like, y'all can give me a little something. If they don't sometimes, like, I'll try to get them something, get them a little upset or something. A lot of times, you know, he'll start seeing guys get a little frustrated, so they try to hit me back, and that's what I need, you know. But they won't take me to the ground. They're not really going for my legs, you know, but hitting me up top and things like that, you know, I need all that. It's very self-aware from Levyon, because it's true. He's not getting any play in the preseason, but he hasn't played for a year or not. That's great because he has fresh legs, but you need to get a little action.

Like that first hit is going to feel a lot worse if you haven't had a few of those in the training camp. Bill Polly and the Hall of Fame general manager once told me, he said, you have to hit. You have to build up calluses. Because you need to hit for three weeks. He goes, we've gone into camps and done two weeks of hitting. We're not the same team. Like, you have to be ready. If you're not sore through the first three weeks of camp, like you're not hitting hard enough.

You have to build up callous. And so I agree with Levy. You know, Andrew Luck once, I had him on the show and he said, I love getting popped once early. Like he goes, it wakes me up. The speed of the game all of a sudden, pow, and he's like, oh, there's real urgency here. Lux's like, I need to get popped early in a game and take a shot. He's probably on an island at his position with that wish.

But for running backs, you're going to get impact every single play. So, you know, you're right. You do want to be a little callous and get right. for the season, especially because Leveon's been away as long as he has. And finally, two months after Janice won the NBA MVP award, James Hardin has a bone to pick. In an interview with 97.9, the box, Hardin shared his thoughts on how the media influences the MVP race. Once people, once the media, they create a narrative about somebody from the beginning of the

year. I think they just take that narrative and then run with it the entire year. All I can do is control what I can do. And I went out there and deal what I'm supposed to do at a high level. You know what I'm saying? A season probably, it's only a few other seasons that anybody's ever done that before. I think players' reputations are almost right on. What do we think about Kauai?

Quiet, plays two ways, gamer. I don't think that's a media running with a crazy narrative. I mean, what is the narrative? You had an incredible MVP-level season. Yonis just deserved the MVP. Yes. I don't think there's any doubt, Yonis. And even though I don't like to count what happens in the postseason towards the MVP,

sometimes it validates it more. you saw that they were the best team in the league. He was carrying that team. Yonis was the heart and soul and everything to that team. He deserved the MVP. So I don't like this because it kind of discredits Yon. He's kind of trying to discredit Yonnes' his MVP. Like we wanted Yonis to get the MVP.

He just won an MVP. Who cares about the MVP? Win a championship. My only knock on MVP voting, it's not a statistical award. No, it's not. So Yonis, you can go to Staten will win MVP if it's statistical. Westbrook won it, Derek Rose. It is most valuable. You take Janus out of Milwaukee. Right. Okay. Mike Dan Tony's made every guard in his career All-Stars. Like, you take Janus out of Milwaukee.

They're Orlando. They're just an irrelevant franchise. It's no question. Look, Hardin had a 32 game streak with at least 30 points, second NBA history behind only Wiltz, 36.1 points per game. That's obviously had an incredible season. But it's like you said, it's mostly opinion. He's just writing that way. The media and the way that we create narratives does sort of influence it in some way. But nobody's saying he had a horrible season. Didn't he finish second the MVP voting? Did he? I don't follow it. I mean, Yonnis just deserved the MVP and that's okay.

It's kind of like an unnecessary job. Yeah. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. I didn't know if that was two or three stories. I may have just cut you off in traffic.

No, we're good. Didn't even put the blinker on. I just cut right in front of your car. Mark Schlarith, multiple pro bowl, Super Bowls. Let's bring him on. Mark Schlerich. Hi, Joy. I love St. Greg CoSelt, top of the next hour. By the way, I hear you're all

fired up on, so I don't know Rocky Arsenal. I know Todd France has Matt Ryan, has Fletcher Cox, has Dack Prescott, Todd France, been around a long time. You don't hear about Matt's contracts. Dax deal. Fletcher Cox is probably next to Aaron Donald,

Best E. Lyman in the league. There are low profile agents. Drew Rosenhaus would tend to take guys who are a little more outspoken. He takes controversial guys. I don't know Rocky Arsenal, but there is a, there are degrees of competency in pilots, doctors, sure. Talk show host and agents. I don't love the Mexico optics on Zeke.

I don't love the fact that Jerry went to the wall for you, appear to be getting Commissioner Roger Goodell in hot water defending you, and two years out, you hold out of camp. I don't love that. Well, no, I don't either. And I understand where Zeke is coming from. I understand the fact that you want a new deal and that the running back position, we've seen this, the deal.

First off, the deal negotiated by the Players Association, right? You're negotiating on behalf of players who aren't in the league yet, and you stuck the first rounders with four years and a fifth round option, or a fifth year option. So you stuck them with five-year commitment to their NFL franchises. where you can control their salary and their ability to earn money. So even if you outplay that contract, as Zika has, two of the three years he's been in the league, he's led the league in rushing,

like you've outplayed it. You deserve it. But if you're going to get a new contract, because you still have two years left, you're going to have to give something back. It's going to have to be team friendly. Right. Like that's the way it's going to work.

You're not going to go and usurp the contract that they gave to Todd Gurley last year. Now, I will tell you this, the Todd Gurley conference. If you look at it, it's face value, they're probably upset that they gave that contract. God, yes. Well, what about David Johnson? David Johnson's $13 million a year. He went on the witness relocation program last year.

Where was he? Right? And then you look at, you know, Devante Freeman, who I think is one of the best backs in football. He's an $8 million a year guy. He was hurt last year. So why would you give that contract to a running back? I'm with you on the optics. The other thing is Jerry Jones jokes about Zik Who and the agent.

And the player say, hey, I thought it was disrespectful. Well, what's disrespectful is the fact that you've been suspended a couple of times? That you've gotten called to the principal's office down at Park Avenue several times. Like, every time you go out, you're a potential powder cake that they have to worry about. That you've got to sleep if you're the owner with a cell phone because you know that Zeke Elliott might get himself in trouble. Like, that's disrespectful. Listen, I remember when I was a young broadcaster, when you resigned Jalen, Smith, for instance. Sure. He's a great

story, but Dallas feels he's a great kid. So I remember when I broke into broadcasting 30 years ago, and I was a play-by-play announcer, and I remember an executive saying, we like our play-by-play announcers, married. He goes, you're single. Now, I wasn't going to get the job anyway, but it always stuck with

me. He said, you're on the road 82 times a year. Single guys on the road, Los Angeles. Now, players, we can't control. Broadcasters, we can. The point being, there's a lot more to getting a contract than just talent. Melvin Gordon is liked by the Chargers. They traded up to get him.

Zeke has not been a good citizen of the Cowboys. He has hurt the brand. He has put his team in peril. He has been suspended. You know, we've worked at major corporations. When these corporations go and look at Mark Schlereth or me or Joy, some of it is, are they dependable? Are they dependable?

Zeke has not been a good cowboy citizen. Dak has been great. Amari's been great. Jalen's been great. Vanderec. Jerry has rewarded DeMarcus Lawrence and Jalen Smith. They've been good dudes. Like that's part of it. You know, in regards to Jalen Smith, just an incredible story. Great story. The kid was going to be a top five draft pick, right?

Gets injured, devastating knee injury in the bowl game. Essentially, may not ever play again. Drop foot, you know, you name it. Right. As bust it is, but to get back to where he is, he's developed himself into a great player. He gets rewarded with a contract yesterday. You know the thing that bothered me about that? The press conference became a message to Zeke and to Dak. Instead of a...

Instead of celebrating what that kid has done. That bothered me. Took his shine away to basically point the finger at other guys who aren't there right now to talk about getting your piece of the pie. Yeah. You know, there was some of that in the press conference. And here's the thing. I will never feel sorry for a billion dollar or a billionaire owner that claims poorhouse because of salary cap issues.

You can pay everybody that you want to pay. Now, your offensive line right now, Smith makes $15 million a year. Martin makes $14 million a year. Frederick makes $10 million a year. Collins makes $10 million a year. Right there, I just listed $49 million. you don't think you can renegotiate all those contracts, give them extended deals, get their cap value down quite a bit, and save yourself $30 million somewhere?

Of course you could if you wanted to. But that goes back to Jerry is angry. Joey and I talked about this yesterday. There's no animus with a DAC deal. There's animus here. I believe Jerry, in fact, I got a Dallas reporter yesterday, DM me. Guys lit into my DMs. He's like, you nailed it on this.

Jerry's passed. I went to the wall for you and you were not a good guy. Right. Absolutely. So I just think, listen, by and large, I would have a hard time if I was a billionaire. If I liked the player and I thought he was good for the room, I'd struggle not paying him. I think most of these owners liked their players. They like being mentors.

They like changing lives. You know, Nick Saban says, you change lives in college. Well, Pete Carroll told me that before. Like you can change a life as a college football coach. Well, a billionaire owner can change a family's history. I think most of them do like, but I'm the billionaire. You're the millionaire. You've got to be a good guy.

And I don't think Zeeks's always been a good guy. If I'm going to invest in you, make sure that I'm investing in somebody that I can count on, that I can rely on. That I don't have to work. Like I can put my cell phone away and don't have to worry about it ringing. That I can sleep well at night, knowing. that I invested that money in you. And, you know, I mean, I get it. I think that's going to get paid regardless.

But like, the way the running back position is in this league, would you pay a running back? I would. I just wouldn't. I'd struggle with it. Yeah. I always look to Belichick, what would Bill do? Bill keeps drafting running backs every year. Right.

So he doesn't get cornered. So he doesn't get, and they're all like SEC running back. You know, I think that's, I think that is analytically where you go at running back. You think Sony Michelle, who was great as a. rookie. Never get a second contract. You think you'll get a second contract from New England? Absolutely not. No, and it'll listen, there's certain positions in all of sports. That's analytics changes every. Hell, managers in baseball now have no influence. Do you realize a rural college program, Boise State, will pay their football coach four times what the Yankees

will pay their manager? That's the sport. Baseball managers because of analytics and football running backs because of analytics simply aren't worth as much. I got to bring Schlerath back. I got a lot of stuff here. I see two topics that says Mark is fired up on this topic. Don't go anywhere. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapidly. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes

about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about All healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior,

and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection.

If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted

this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That means. Man, hell get the flying. He running the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mark Schlarith, three Super Bowls, multiple Pro Bowls is joining us. I got John Elway on the show later. Oh, do you? Yeah. Listen, John is in a tough spot now. He's got Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reed for the next 10 years. Chargers, Tom Telesco has built a, the Noah's arc of the NFL, two good pass rushers.

He's got two good receivers. They've got two good corners. So the Chargers have two of everything. They had two good running backs with Melvin Gordon. Now he's out. So Oakland's dysfunctional. So John's got his hands full. I mean, you do Denver radio in the morning.

Yeah. The Peyton Manning thing was a great get by John Elway. Since then, there's a lot of questions. They've had four or five iffy drafts up top. I want to shift to this, though. I have this theory. There was a USA Today headline today. Aaron Rogers, you have to draft a quarterback behind him.

My theory has always been. I don't get not drafting a quarterback either every year or every other year. If you're a great team, you can sit him. He learns from the quarterback, never loses his value because I can say on the market, we can't plan because our quarterback's great. If you're bad, you draft one. And if you got Andy Dalton or Cam Newton, you do because you know there's limitations. I think it's a mistake.

Like, if I was Green Bay today, I would draft a quarterback. Now, I don't know how it would sit with Aaron Rogers, but New England drafted 10 when Tom Brady was in his prime and took second, third, fourth round picks. Am I crazy on my theory? No, you're 100% right. I mean, 100% right. You should always be the business

of drafting and developing quarterbacks because we don't know. We don't know when you're going to catch lightning in a bottle. We don't know when the game just makes sense to a guy. Like, I mean, go back to last year. year's draft. I like to call him the Hall of Fame 5, right? You got Baker Mayfield, right? You got Sam

Darnold. You got Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, and you've got Lamar Jackson. Like, Baker Mayfield played pretty well. I think Sam Darnold has a chance to be really good, right? Josh Allen right now, you know, we know he's an

athlete in Buffalo, but we're not sure what he is. Everybody said coming out of that draft that who was the number one guy, in regards to the most ready to play. Josh Rosen through the best ball. Josh Rosen, everybody said he's the guy that's most NFL ready. That's what the draft experts say.

Like Ryan Fitzpatrick, they pulled him off the couch after seven birthday parties where he gained 40 pounds, right? He wasn't Ryan Fitzpatrick. He was Ryan Fatspatrick when he came to camp. And Josh Rosen can't beat him out. Now, I know he's got a lot of NFL experience, but even the head coach is basically saying, hey, man, like Josh Rosen isn't ready to play yet.

Carson Wentz and Jimmy Garoppolo, Dak Prescott, we didn't watch them play in college. We didn't watch Patrick Mahomes play in college. We didn't watch Brady play much in college. I mean, if you look around the league, I mean, it's amazing how many of these quarterbacks, we didn't watch them play in college. Big Bena didn't watch in college. Philo Rivers was

at NC State. You should always be in the business of drafting and trying to develop quarterbacks. Here's the other thing that makes no sense to me. This league, it makes no sense to me. So how many teams decide we can't keep three quarterbacks? Right. We can't keep a guy.

Almost everybody. Right. We're just going to keep two, right? Because that bottom roster spot is so important for special teams and depth of a roster and practice and everything. So you have a 53-man roster. You only draft 46. So the guy that you kept to play special teams in place of developing a third quarterback on your roster never suits up. He never gets in a game.

He's inactive every flippant. weak. But no, the most important position in all football, the quarterback position, we're not going to keep three guys and actually develop guys. By the way, only position in football, you can draft, not play, and it doesn't lose value. If you put him behind Patrick Mahomes, you can sell Bruce Veach and Andy Reid, Brett Veach, their GM, and Andy Reid can sell, he's fantastic. You can put him in spots in the preseason to

succeed. You put them with the right personnel against the right teams. That's what, by the way, Ryan Mallet could never play. People thought six years in, Ryan Mallet can play because they didn't expose him. Jimmy Garoppelow was worth more as an injured backup than he was coming out of college. Yeah. You put them in, you put them in a couple preseason games. Like the fourth preseason game. I mean, I've played a bunch of fourth preseason games. You know what the fourth preseason game is? What? We'd be looking at film. Like you're prepping for the game. And I'm watching film and like, oh, this blitz.

Coach would say, don't worry about that blitz. What do you mean? Don't worry about that. It's right here on tape. They did it last week. Yeah, they're not going to do that. What do you mean they're not going to do that?

Yeah, we've got to deal with them. They're not running that blitz. Don't worry about this. Don't worry about that. Like, it's so completely vanilla. Right, with guys who are going to be UPS drivers in a week. Right. And so, yeah, you can prop a guy out.

You can go out there and make them look like a superstar in the fourth preseason game. You're right. You can create value. But in a game that has a dearth of quarterbacks, why would you just keep two when you can keep three, the guy that you're replacing is never going to get in a game anyhow. The guy that you're saying is, hey, he's valuable special team commodity.

He's never getting a game anyhow. And what if you find lightning in a bottle? Because you work with a kid for three years. And all of a sudden, the kids, like he's got football acumen and he's got aptitude and he makes it. Like, I don't understand that. So earlier today, guys put it up. I said, if you look at the history of the NFL, there are no exceptions to this. when you find a great all-time quarterback,

even the ones that didn't win a Super Bowl, Fouts and Marino, they have a great all-time coach. There are no great quarterbacks with slapy as head coach. It just doesn't work that way. So that when you say who deserves the credit, they both deserve credit. Don Shula helped make Marino, and Marino was an all-time talent.

I said, once Brady retires, and I think it's sooner than later, obviously, Adam Schaefter talked about it yesterday. He said, you know, listen, he's got his house up for sale. the contract sooner than later. These are the five quarterback coaching combos. I think for the next, I would say, 12 years,

I think have a chance to end up in multiple Super Bowls. I went Mahomes Reed won, Gough McVeigh, Wentz, Peterson, Luckwright, Wilson, Carroll. Pete Carroll's not going to coach 10 years. That's why I have them fifth or else I put them a little higher. Am I missing one here? Well, I mean, just off the top of my head, and I think that's a great, I think you're spot on with your list.

I think Bill O'Brien, like I think if people were talking about Bill O'Brien getting fired last year in Houston, there would have been six teams lined up to hire him within two seconds. Okay, they won their division. Right. By the way, they went to the playoffs with T.J. Yates, with Brian Hoyer, with Matt Scha. Matt Schaub. They went to the playoffs with, man, who else has he had to play quarterback for him where they actually were like a playoff contending team? One year, he had three different quarterbacks start.

games for him of Ryan Fitzpatrick, and they went to the playoffs. By the way, he doesn't have a GM right now. I think he's a great, vastly underrated coach. And I think Watson has a chance. Yeah, it's really interesting. Now, he has got to be better about protecting his body. The problem with guys who are gifted athletes, and this is, this is another, this is Carson Wince, I'll bring this to Carson Wens. Okay. Okay. The problem with guys who are exceptionally gifted athletes is your entire life, your default mechanism has been athleticism. So when things break down, you make decisions from the neck down. When you play in the NFL and you play quarterback, your default mechanism better be from

the neck up. You better learn how to get rid of the football. You better learn how to throw it away. You better learn how to do the Peyton Manning self-sack. You cannot have your default mechanism be from the neck down because the guys on defense are trying to murder you. I mean, literally, I picked up a fumble once and ran with it. I ran with it once.

And I was like, note to self. Don't ever do that again. Mike Meriwether tried to decapitate me. Well, no, it's Chris Cardero's talks about it's almost biblical. If you have a great singing voice, you will sing in the car, in the shower, you'll end up on TV or a stage. When you are a gifted athlete and it's gotten you out of trouble your whole life, of course, Michael Vic talks about it all the time.

He's like, listen, I was the fastest guy in every field I guess. got on. Trouble, I don't need a second outlet that's called my legs. I'm going to use them. They're right here. I don't have to teach him how to move fast. And you know, it's funny. I've had this conversation with Michael and he goes, I wish, you know, you start looking

back on your career and go, I wish I would have developed a different default mechanism. I wish I, but you're so gifted. Of course. And so Deshaun runs himself into trouble all the time. Yeah. You know, and even you look at, you look at the second year of Carson Wentz when Carson and Wentz was, you know, quote, quote, the MVP up until he tore his ACL, right? On a scramble, by the way.

He had almost 300 yards rushing. Like, he kept drives alive. He made all kinds of great plays with his legs. Like, that's a recipe for disaster. Eventually, they're going to catch you. Listen, I always go to this. We gave Johnny Mansell so much credit because he moved the ball against Nick Sabin. I mean, I got him drafted.

Like, oh, God, he beat Nick Sabin. If he did a little homework, the first time he beat him, Alabama had come off two brutal games. He had a great first half. Didn't do anything in the second. Nick Saban had six weeks twice to prepare for Deshawn Watson. Couldn't stop him.

This wasn't regular season after you played LSU. After you played Georgia. No, I got six weeks. I couldn't stop it. Ten seconds. Oh, now I don't have time for ten. Well, I'll do this another time. Another story. Another story. Another story. The great American storyteller. Yeah, there you go.

Mark Slareth. Our two, Greg Kosell. Next. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete, the athletes, the members. themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask

the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done it. enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, search.

Learn the hard way and listen now. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized,

but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted. at this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys

like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the bar like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah.

You figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down. the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ah, here we go, hour two. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening.

We are live in Los Angeles on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Greg CoSell in about five minutes. He's been breaking down two divisions. Every time we brought him on during the preseason, today he breaks down the AFC South and the NFC South. So those are good divisions. NFC South's crazy. You never know. Saints, Carolina's had good teams. Atlanta, I think, last year I had Atlanta getting to the Super Bowl. So he'll be joining us. And Joy Taylor joining us. By the way, Cam Newton's at New England in week three. So that's a real game.

Cam's going to be playing. Cam's in a very interesting spot. This is really funny. He only makes $22 million a year. Now, again, let's put it in context, a lot of money. Patrick Mahomes is going to sign probably a $38 million-year contract in the next year. Cam's at 22, and I don't think he gets another contract. First of all, the analytics are in. This has become very much a precision-throwing league, and he's not a precision-throwing quarterback. I've compared him to Russell Westbrook.

The game changed. Russell Westbrook, you have to be able to shoot threes. John Wall can't and Russell Westbrook can't. Sometimes the game moves away from you. It's moved away from Cam. The big strong-armed guy that's not precise, that's not what the league is anymore. And there's always been this whole thing.

Cam doesn't have any support. Five top 10 defenses in eight years. Three different Pro Bowl offensive linemen. Way better, way better than average running backs. And Greg Olson will get Hall of Fame votes. Makes it in, I'm not sure. It's not that. He's had stability and coaching.

Ron Rivera is one of the top defensive coaches in the NFL. Again, he's had five top 10 defenses in eight years. 65% of the time he gets a top 10 defense. So I don't think, so I don't think Cam gets another deal. David Tepper's the new owner. So David Tepper A has been with the stable, high standard Steelers. He's not going to Carolina and going to be happy with a guy finishing third. This is a guy whose first press conference, the only thing he cared about.

Remember that? Here's the only thing the new owner cares about. If I'm moving someplace and we're doing this in Carolina, the first thing I care about is winning. The second thing I care about is winning. And the third thing I care about is, you guys are smart. So that's on and off the field.

That includes a charity aspect, community aspect, and how you make a community better. So you win a lot of ways. And I don't like to lose it anyway. Yeah, Cam doesn't win enough. Well, he was MVP in 2015. This owner wasn't here.

This owner was not. here. He doesn't care about the rearview mirror crap with Cam. Westbrook was the MVP in 2016. Houston doesn't care now. That's for Oklahoma City and their fans and their arena and their memories. Houston doesn't care about Westbrook's MVP.

This new owner doesn't care about Cam's MVP. That's somebody else's plaque. That's not his plaque. So Cam's making 22. That's it. I'm very interested to see if he gets another contract because he's got two years left. And the division it's full of good teams. Saints, Atlanta, Bruce Ariens now with James Winston, it's full of a lot of good teams. All right, here we go. Greg CoSell joins us. Started three weeks ago. We're going to have him all the way until February.

We bring him on at the top of the 10 o'clock Pacific, 1 o'clock Eastern hour on Thursdays. So we're going to talk about the AFC South today and the NFC South. Let's start with the AFC South. We just had Mark Schlerathon. Mark said, I think the Sean Watson and Bill O'Brien are going to be. a very special combination. You know, there is this theory, Greg, that Bill O'Brien's kind of a middling coach, but he did win the division again last year. They've never had what you consider a great GM. When you look at Deshawn Watson, Bill O'Brien, what does the film say? Do you think it's elite coaching, elite playing? Well, the issue for that team, and it's what Bill O'Brien had to try to do, camouflage for poor offensive line play, and there's multiple ways to do.

do that, but one way, and it showed up on the tape, is they used a lot of seven-man past protection concepts, Colin, and that's great to protect your quarterback, and that's certainly number one, but then you only have three receivers that are going out into routes. So it's just a numbers game. The more eligible receivers you remove from routes into protection, the less multiple your pass game can be. So they're likely to start two rookies on the offensive line this year at the two guard positions. So that's still a work in progress.

I really like Deshaun Watson. I spent a lot of time this summer studying him from last year. And when I watched him day after day for a number of days, he's a really impressive kid, really loose-limbed athlete, an easy thrower can make every throw, can make plays outside of structure. I really like the player, but their O-line will be a work in progress. Andrew Locke, we don't know what it is. they talk about a calf injury, calf injuries heal.

And frankly, calf injuries heal pretty quickly. He hasn't had a practice since April, a legitimate practice. Is this roster now good enough to win some games with Jacoby Brissette? What do you make of the old line is clearly headed in the right direction? If luck didn't play for a while, how good is their personnel? I think it's solid. I think there's a drop off. I like Jacoby Brissette as a player, but I think there's a drop off, clearly. I think they would have to rely more on the run game, and I think then that puts a little more of an onus on a Marlon Mack,

who I think is a nice back. The question is, how much of a burden can he carry on a weekly basis? Their defense is clearly better. I think that has to become a bigger factor for them. I think Justin Houston adding him is a real positive because they need that pass rush pressure. They've got a player that not many people know about named Kenny Moore, who's a corner, and he plays in the slot in their nickel. He's really, really good, one of the best in the league. But I think that there would be a meaningful drop off without luck at quarterback. Okay, Mike, one of the teams in the league, and I just don't quite understand this,

Tennessee, in a league where it's hard to have a winning record, has gone 97-9-9-7-9-7-9-7. and that's with Marietta being heard a lot. Vrable appears to be able to coach. They have a good offensive line. They added Adam Humphreys. Delaney Walker comes back. Corey Davis has talent. I think Tennessee,

I think they're pretty good here. It's kind of one of those dark horse teams that if they ended up with 11 wins, I'd be like, all right, good old line, ran for over 2,000 yards, nice pieces in free agency. What do you make at Tennessee when you watch them on? Phil.

They clobbered Dallas. last year. They clobbered New England last year. There is a physical component to this team I like. Without question, they're a little bit old school, which I think my Grable preaches. They have a very good defense. Dean Pease is their defensive coordinator. He's outstanding. They're very multiple defensively. They've got a very good secondary. I think they're going to try to be a run-first team that starts with Derek Henry and have Marcus Mario to work off that. I think They've got some weapons. I think Corey Davis is a really good player.

And I'm anxious to see if he can continue to put up numbers in the context of their offense. This is not profound, but I think much will depend on Mario's consistency. He's very good given weeks. You mentioned two big wins they had against quality teams, but there's an inconsistency to his play. His mechanics are the reason for that. So we'll see if he can become a more consistent player. But there's a lot of pieces in place for them to be a very consistent player. very solid old school kind of team.

All right, time for a hot take. Nick Foles is going to go to Jacksonville, and they're going to finish six and ten, and he's not better than Carson Wins. That's my takeaway on Nick Foles and Jacksonville. Your thoughts? Well, that's not a real problem. I mean, that's pretty, that's like saying two and two is four. Okay.

So, you know, I think Nick Foles is a real solid quality NFL quarterback. He's not an elite player. I think he needs the system to help him be a quality. player. We'll see what their run game looks like. I think Leonard Farnett is a question mark at this moment in time, but I think they need him to be a factor. They still have very good defensive players, so it's very possible that their defense could still be very, very good, which I think they need to be the case. But I think Nick Foles is a complementary player in an offense and a team that has a chance to be good.

Let's go now to the NFC South. Breeze and the Saints, very quietly, they have put together what I consider to be an excellent offensive line, which is a little bit of the secret sauce to this organization. Personnel-wise on the defensive side. You know, Breeze has age. When you just look at their, we know they're well-schemed with Sean Peyton. Do you like their overall personnel? Like Dennis Allen is a defensive coordinator.

I watched a lot of their defense. summer. And I think when you look at that defense, you see a lot of moving parts, a lot of multiple fronts, a lot of pressure packages. They do a lot of man pressures because they're a very good man-to-man defense. And Dennis Allen likes to play that way. And so that increases your options when it comes to pressure. So I think that there are, it's an overlooked defense because of Sean Peyton and Drew Brees. But I think their defense is pretty darn good. we forgot about Atlanta but they had cluster injuries in the secondary Matt Ryan put up terrific numbers last year they have stability at coach they have an excellent GM they did draft and address their offensive line

if there was a dark horse team in the NFC I think I'd probably go with Atlanta what say you yeah I think that's fair you know obviously they feel that with Chris Lindstromple started right guard they like McGarry to start at right tackle I think they're basically telling you that we're going to get back a bit to that zone run game, and with Devante Freeman, who's a good back, I think defensively they're interesting because I think Dan Quinn has made a decision based on today's NFL that you need to be more multiple than playing a lot of cover three. And I think you're going to see more pressure concepts from them. I think they're going to be more aggressive defensively. So I think this team's going to look a little

different on the defensive side of the ball. But you mentioned Matt Ryan, another guy who's overlooked, even though he's been in the Super Bowl. He had a really, really good year. Some said it was the best year that a quarterback's ever had on a team that what, they were six and ten, I believe. He's just a really solid NFL quarterback. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt. Now, a quarterback that gets lauded off and that I struggle with is Cam Newton,

listen, he's had five of his eight years. He's had a top ten defense. They've had three offensive linemen during his tenure make the Pro Bowl, above average at running back. Greg Olsen will get Hall of Fame votes. he's got two years left in a contract. I think the word is out on Cam. I think in a precision league, he's not a precision thrower.

I always tend to like Carolina's defense and personnel. I struggle with their inconsistency with Cam. Your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I think he's been an inconsistent passer. I think the thing with Cam, as you well know, is the fact that he's a big, big man with great running ability, and he gives you that element, which makes him at times difficult to defend.

But I don't think anybody would argue with the fact that he's a scattershot thrower who misses throws at times, but is certainly capable of great throws. But there's an absolute inconsistency and erratic nature to his game. The question is defensively, you know, can they be really good? You know, they're counting on Dante Jackson, the second year corner, to become a really good player. I think McCaffrey is a really good player and will obviously be used in the past game quite a bit. then they've got young receivers who in their mind are ready to become good players. So, you know, I don't think there's a mystery about Cam Newton at this point in his career. We kind of know what he is.

Yeah. Finally, Tampa Bay, if I had to say, all right, make a bet. James Winston's going to improve with Bruce Ariens or at the end of the line here, judgment immaturity, too many picks. What do you make at Tampa and Winston going forward? It's been a very difficult guy to evaluate for me because I think there's talent there. I like the fact that he's aggressive. I like the fact that he's a turn-it-loose thrower.

Certainly has had issues with poor decision-making interceptions. Bruce Ariens is very hard on quarterbacks, but yet he likes quarterbacks to be aggressive. So it seems like a good mix and a good marriage. Hard to know exactly how we'll play out, but this is a team loaded with offensive weapons. Now, they've got some questions at running back. We know that.

But as far as the receiving corps and the tight-end group, This is a team that's absolutely loaded. Good stuff. Greg Kossel, 30-plus-year NFL films on a Thursday. Great talking to you, Greg. Thanks, Colin. Appreciate it. John Elway next hour, James Harrison, Jason McIntyre, tomorrow's headlines today. So we're absolutely full. Coming up, a fascinating poll from a company called Football Outsiders.

And they talk about how 10 times we have had an average quarterback. have a miraculous year. And they put DAC in that group. And I'm talking like the Case Keenamere a couple years ago with Minnesota. Scott Mitchell with Detroit had this great year. Lions paid him and he was a flop. Is Dak just one of those guys? Thoughts about that coming up.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed to This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama,

the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12

and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition

of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade, of my own experience in the middle health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth.

Are you a good person because you're free? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shake my behavior. and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace,

and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and social. connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through

life one hot flash and hormonal crying drag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be with the Adamani Arriva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own.

I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that Ness was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How hard can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard.

Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura Podcast Network available on the I

Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Preseason football continues tonight on Fox as Leonard Fornett and Nick Bowles make their preseason debuts for Jacksonville against Kenny Stills and the Dolphins. Catch the action starting at 8 Eastern on Fox and the Fox Sports app. All right. So NFL Football Outsiders is a website. Now, we all know there's been one-hit wonders in music. There's been some one-hit wonders as actors.

I mean, Mark Hamill was Luke Skywalker. He hadn't had a ton of huge hits after that. It's a fine actor, I'm sure. But there are, you get a role, and it's a big role, and you don't get a bunch of others. There's, you know, Tony Basil, that song, Vegas Girl. Remember she had that song years ago? Oh, Mickey, you're so fine. You're so fine.

You blow my mind. It didn't have any other hits. Like, it's legendary. They do specials about like one hit wonders in music. There's one hit actors. And then there's one hit quarterbacks. And it happens way more than you think. football outsiders had the list of the 10 fluke quarterback seasons.

And you think, you know, that's kind of harsh. Scott Mitchell, 1995, literally had a season. He threw for 4,300 yards when nobody back then threw for 4,000 yards. 32 touchdowns, 12 picks. Scott Mitchell had an unbelievable year. They signed him to a huge contract. It's one of the worst contracts ever signed. Derek Anderson, Eric Kramer for the Bears, Case Keenham.

Eric Kramer for a year in Chicago in the mid-90s through at the age of 31, had 30 touchdowns and 10 picks through for over 4,000 yards. It happens in football. You get the perfect offensive line. You get a really good play caller. You get a weaker schedule. Your divisions in flux. You have a good defense.

And you just, you get good protection. You may have a star running back or a top receiver. It happens in music. But it happens in football. So what's interesting, though, they put Dak Prescott. his rookie year on this list, and I just don't think it's fair. Okay, this is not a one-hit wonder. There's a difference between a fluke and a lower ceiling.

First of all, the year they're using, DAC went 13 and 3 as a rookie. They won at Green Bay and at Pittsburgh. They came within an Aaron Rogers' miraculous throw of getting to the NFC championship. But he's also gotten significantly better. Dak was 7 and 1 in the last eight games last year, once you gave him a legitimate top receiver. I'm not denying.

He entered the league with easily the best offensive line in the league. A driven, powerful, brilliantly talented running back. Tony Romo was his mentor. Nobody had any film on him. And frankly, Jason Whitten was a guaranteed safety blanket, the best eight-yard hook pattern in the league. I'm not denying any of that. But in two of three DAC years, he's dealt with suspensions,

major offensive line injuries did not have a top receiver. In fact, this is the first year he's had a top receiver. Dak's not a fluke. Dak has a lower ceiling than Patrick Mahomes. But I don't think it's fair to put Dak on this. If you go to the last eight weeks last year when he finally got a legitimate receiver, 12 touchdowns, three picks, 104 passer rating, completed 72% of his throws was 7 and 1. Dak's a real player.

He doesn't have a whip. He doesn't have a great arm. He's not Patrick. I don't think he has the talent of luck. I don't think he has the skill set of a Carson Wentz. He's not a fluke. He's not a one-hit wonder. He is a quarterback that's an excellent leader, durable, mobile, coachable that is not going to throw you like Patrick Mahomes or Jared Goff. He doesn't have the whip. But I don't think it's fair to put him on this list. The only other guy in this list, Randall Cunningham had a great year in the late 90s with Minnesota. Randall Cunningham was talented. I don't think Randall Cunningham should be in this list.

The rest of these guys have talent, they feel like fluke. Dac to me is not a fluke. He's just limited. Joy with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So Ryan Flores has insisted that his week one starting quarterback is still to be determined.

Oh, great. But it seems like it's Ryan Fitzpatrick's job to lose. not the best situation to be in. And obviously, Fitz has lost, more quarterback battles on his one, or he wouldn't be on his eighth team. But he's hoping to make Flores a decision an easy one and said, being a starting quarterback in this league, I think it's something you can never take for granted. You have a lot of people in the building. You have a lot of people in that locker room.

A lot of fans are relying on you to go out there and do your job. For me, it's the reason that I still play. It's a position that I love being in. I'm excited to have the opportunity to compete to do it. Tonight's Dolphins Jags preseason game will be on Fox at 8 p.m. Eastern. so we will get to see a little bit of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh Rosen. In two preseason games, Fitz completed 5 of 14 passes for 40 yards, zero touchdowns, zero interceptions.

I have some thoughts about what teams will be on the very low ends of the league this year. Miami's down there. Unfortunately, I think so. Or up there. I mean, yeah, well, yeah, I guess it's funny how you're rating it. It's obviously I would love to see Josh Rosen as a starting quarterback, whether he's ready or not, I just, I mean, I don't understand what you have to lose.

Brian Flores isn't the first year of his deal. They're not going to fire him next year if it's a disaster. And Ryan Fitzpatrick is not going to lose any confidence not being the starting quarterback. He's been in that position before. I think it's a complicated situation, obviously. Josh Rosen may not be ready to be out there, in theory. He's probably not. But what is he really learning from Ryan Fitzpatrick?

If this is a situation like Brett Farve and Tom Brady or even Alex Smith, with Patrick Mahomes. Like, you feel like that's a solid. I mean, Alex Smith is a starting quarterback. Like, that's a respectable situation. And no disrespect to Ryan Fitzpatrick, but I think we all know what Ryan Fitzpatrick is at this point in his career. Ryan Fitzpatrick may also be a great practice player.

Harvard picks it up fast. You know, I mean, let's be honest about this. Some guys, I mean, if you go to practice and you look at practice film, Ryan Fitzpatrick has his moments. I mean, what Ryan Fitzpatrick is, he's the great classic backup quarterback. He can be great. Right. But Fav was great almost 13 of 15, 16 Sundays.

Ryan's all over the map. But is it possible? Ryan's just better at practice. For sure. I'm sure he's amazing in camp. I mean, how many training camps has he been in? Right. So, but I just, I want direction from the dolphins.

I want direction from the New York Giants. I want direction from teams that don't know who their quarterback is. This is what we're doing. Like, what is the big decision between Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh Rosen? While Wyant Fitzpatrick is more capable right now and has more experience, obviously, it's not a situation like Eli and the Giants. Eli is in the better position at that moment. Just make a call.

So it looks like the situation between Melvin Gordon is going from bad to worse. According to NFL networks, Ian Rapp reported the two sides are still at a stalemate. He reported at this point, Chargers running back Melvin Gordon's holdout is expected to continue into the season. Sources say contract talks have not progressed as he hoped, and he'll continue to train in Florida for the four. foreseeable future. He is heading into the final year of his rookie deal. He's scheduled to make 5.6 million in base salary this year, looking for a raise, obviously, or for the Chargers to trade him. And even though he missed four games in 2018, he still ranked fifth in the NFL with 14 touchdowns. Now, he made some money because Melvin was a first round pick. So it's not like

Melvin hasn't made some dough. Like, he's made some good money. Like, Zeke, like they've made real money. And he does deserve a new contract. Like, it's not, it doesn't, this doesn't, this doesn't feel like Zeeck to me where it's like you didn't expect it or it feels a big force. Right. You don't know what you're going to get from him. It's just unfortunately the position. And I think running backs especially, there's a bit of a pendulum with running backs. Like you run into a year where everyone has the highest value for running backs.

You know, there's a huge explosion of, you know, like you have to have a solid running back, a high level running back to win. And then it swings back and you're like, oh, maybe we don't. Or, you know what I mean? Like it's, it just depends on the year. And unfortunately, when your contract is up, that's kind of. how it goes. And I feel like that's the situation that we're just not valuing running backs at that level. Listen, analytics have changed a million things. Baseball managers have no power.

Back to the basket centers are done. And running backs careers, you don't get a second contract. Like, this is what analytics, this is what metrics have done to certain baseball managers now do not fill out their own lineups. Honestly, though, the Steelers didn't make the playoffs last year. And you can argue it was a bunch of different things, but Levion wasn't there. Patriots won the Super Bowl, right? It's the Patriots. They're a system. They're a machine.

So I don't like comparing like, well, the Patriots have different running back every single year or whatever. Like, it's the Patriots. You can't compare other teams to how they do things. Todd Gurley is out. The Rams don't win. So for all this talk about there's really not that much value and the analytics. Like, there is some mounting evidence that you may actually need that guy. Maybe not the rushing champ, but you need a high level, reliable.

a well above average running back to win. Finally, whether it's his feet, the helmets, or hard knocks, Antonio Brown has completely dominated preseason headlines. And yesterday, HBO announced the ratings in Pittsburgh for Tuesday's episode were three times the national average. So 412 was glued to everything Antonio was doing. And after AB saw a report of the news on Twitter, he had words for Pittsburgh tweeting,

my ex still thinks of me in response to the ratings being more than triple the national average. He's also in Canada for the Raiders preseason game in Winnipeg tonight against the Packers. This doesn't surprise me. Obviously, there's some animosity towards Antonio Brown and Pittsburgh for the way that things ended. Now, I don't think that that's fair or really rational because there were a lot of factors that played into the Steelers not making the playoffs last year. I think there's plenty of blame to go around. But if you're a Steelers fan, why would this fall apart for you?

You got Antonio Brown the sixth round. You couldn't have gotten more value in production out of a player in the sixth round than Antonio Brown. What are you complaining about? I think when he bailed on the team in week 17, I think it was like, I think that's just an unwritten rule. You just don't do that in the NFL. Like it's just, you got to be there for your brothers.

There's some elements to that. But I also think the Steelers are such a strong brand. And that fan base and the city is like it's all about the Steelers. Like there's no individuality. Even though Tomlin is a player's guy, it's always a feeling like you're a stealer. Like you're part of a family. So I get it. But it's also like the complaining about like he's a diva and, you know, it's just you got a lot out of Antonio Brown.

And for that matter, Antonio Brown, Levion Bell, and Ben Rathesberger were there for quite a few years. and I don't recall any Super Bowls with the three of them. So if you want to place blame on anyone, I think it should be equally distributed because that was an opportunity with three superstars that got completely squandered. By the way, I'm looking at all this aerial video. Pittsburgh's a beautiful city.

Well, thank you. I think so. City of Bridges. That reminds me of Portland. I've never been to Portland. But Portland's very green, right? Well, Pittsburgh's apparently very green. It's green in the summer. And it's a biotech center, so it's thriving.

Yes, a lot of schools there too. It's not your, you know, Cleveland's not. Pittsburgh is thriving. You know, there's a lot of that Midwest, St. Louis, Cleveland aren't growing. Pittsburgh's like thriving. A lot of tech. Some good universities.

Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. You know, we were talking about Josh Rosen. You know, it's amazing how impatient teams are with quarterback. So Josh Rosen, Arizona fired his offensive coordinator midseason. They fired his head coach at the end of the season.

season, and they still, they moved off him. So he had a bad O-line, a bad coach, a bad coordinator. Arizona's like, we gave you enough of a shot, we're moving on. I saw a story here where Earl Thomas, the Ravens, former Seahawks safety, they've had joint practices with Philadelphia, and Earl Thomas came out and said, Carson Wentz is great. We're just impatient. Troy Aikman, in his third year in 12 games, had 11 touchdowns and 10 picks.

in his third year. Peyton Manning's fourth year, he was awful. They were six and ten. 26 touchdowns, 23 picks. Aaron Rogers sat for three years. He came in and in play, they were six and ten. People forget this. Troy Aikman's rookie year.

He was 0 and 11, nine touchdowns, 18 picks. Can you imagine if that was your rookie quarterback and you had to sell to the public, this guy that was 0 and 11 through twice as many picks with talk. radio today. This kid named Aikman, he is the future. You'd spend an entire offseason and being mocked by your fan base in your local media. We don't, I mean, literally Troy Akeman one time as rookie year lined up behind the guard, not the center. Do you know what that would be like on the internet today? Carson Wentz is fantastic. We just don't have any patience. We do this with TV shows. The Seinfeld show would not work today. It wasn't very good year one.

you wouldn't get a year two. You just don't get second years. They cancel shows now after a bad episode. A bad episode. Manning's fourth year. Aaron Rogers' first year is a starter four years in. Troy Aikman's third year rookie year. Carson Wentz is fantastic.

We're just not patient. Now I think most of it's this device in our hands called the phone, where we live moment to mom. Michael Jordan didn't have to endure. It's like Michael Jordan didn't come into the league for six years. It's like he just entered and won titles. Michael Jordan ran through coaches, couldn't get along with teammates, was a relentless ball hog his first five years in the league.

You couldn't coach him, you couldn't play with him. He was averaging 37 a night, but nobody wanted to coach him. He was running through coaches and running through teammates before he got Scotty Pivot and Phil Jackson. Troy Akeman was a mess this first couple of years. Couldn't win games. A lot of touchdown, a lot of picks. So Carson went says, great, but we just don't have any patience with anything.

social media phones we want now we want good there's there and there now if you are bad i mean i laugh at people uh sam darnald what did he show me he was the highest rated NFL quarterback the last month with that old line those running backs and those receivers god let it breathe here a little bit like let's let lamar jackson dischaun watson sam darnall i mean we've all annoyed at baker mayfield great we could have all these guys could be great how's josh allen and Buffalo is supposed to be great. Their offensive line last year was the third lowest rated in the league. They had no wide receivers.

God, we just don't give anybody any time now. You're not allowed to have a bad sitcom. Forget a year. You can't have a bad episode. James Harrison, who once again gave me a head massage this morning in the makeup room. Joy witnessed it. I don't understand how you don't notice. It's getting a little weird.

He'll be joining us, the two times of a bowl champ. Be sure to catch live editions of the. heard weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff

nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments, that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kyr Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you give you. It's your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series. because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court,

and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. James Harrison, multiple Super Bowls, multiple all-pro linebacker, Steelers, all-time sack leader. You know, we were talking about agents earlier today about Zeke, Rocky Arsenal. I don't know much about him. I know Todd France at CAA has Matt Ryan, Fletcher Cox, Stack Prescott. There's guys I do know, Dunn. The guy's been around.

Who was your agent, by the? David Dunn. When I first got in, it was a guy named, I don't even want to mention the name because he was terrible. Okay. It was him and another gentleman, and they were actually terrible, terrible. So bad to the point to where I ended up having to, you know, fire him and ended up getting with my agent that I have now, Bill Perrice. But it got to the point to I was with the Steelers, did the practice squad thing for the first year. I ended up getting released in 03 after the first, well, not even before the first week.

So I made the team on Monday, did the off day, came in Wednesday practice, and they released me after practice. Sat out that whole time for another maybe six weeks or so. They brought me back on practice squad for two weeks and then released me again. so I was out the whole rest of the season. And that whole off season, you know, all that, nothing was going on. No cause, no nothing. And I ended up talking to one of my friends,

and he was telling me about, you know, his agent. His agent was a better agent. So I ended up, I couldn't get a hold of this guy. Like literally couldn't get a hold of this guy. And so I ended up getting with the other agent, sending the legger fired. the other dude. Come to find out two days later, Baltimore had been looking for me for like three or four weeks to try and get me to sign with them. Couldn't find your agent. Couldn't get a

hold of an agent. No, so this is my point. Not all pilots, dentists, lawyers, and agents, quarterbacks or linebackers are equal. There are bad agents. Now, I'm not saying Zeke's got a bad agent, but man, going to Cabo, Jerry backed Zeke after some really bad mistake. two years out going to Kabul. I'm sorry, James, that's a bad look. Yeah, I would agree with you. And right now it's at a point where I believe Jerry is a little upset. He's a little pissed off.

And you could tell in his last comments, you know, he was almost, you know, holding back what it is that he really wanted to say. So I think right now, you know, he may be in a situation where you got two years left. I'm Jerry Jones. I got trophies. I won another one, but do I really need it? I can be real nasty and spiteful. You got two years I own you.

You're mine. Now, I don't know if this still applies, but he would only have two years left, only two years on the books if he ended up sitting out two years. I know when I came into my second year, it's a thing called exclusive rights. If you only got two years,

your rights are still belonged to that team. They do. only negotiate with that team. That's right. They can not pay him for two years, and then I think franchise tag him. Right. So you're still stuck there.

You could possibly be stuck there not getting paid for four years, but you, like, you don't really, you want to play nice, you want to try and get your money, but at the end of the day, if I'm Jerry Jones, I'm a billionaire.

I want to be like real nasty and spiteful. Now I'm hurt and upset because of something that your agent said, about how you guys feel, that could be a long two to four years. You know, my dad used to always say this. Most of your employment decisions will be made when you're not in the room. Okay? So be a good person and or get good representation.

Yes. Because you're not going to be in the room when people are raising their hands going, I'm for this employee. I think he embarrassed the Cowboys. I think this is a big mistake. I think Rocky Arsenal was too aggressive. I think Cabo's bad optics, and I think Jerry, to your word, is ticked off. Oh, yeah.

And you can play, you know, again, Jerry's got $7 billion, three Super Bowl trophies. He won one with a couple with Jimmy. He won them with Barry. Like, he can play hardball here. Yes. And by the way, this league, quarterback's harder to find than running back. So if Jerry wants to be spiteful, by the way, the other thing is you don't want to back powerful people into a corner.

Did you ever, you never held out, but was there ever a hold? out in your Steeler career by another player? Heinz, he had a holdout for training camp. Was it, was it acrimonious? Well, it was, they weren't going to negotiate until he came in. He ended up coming in. Everything ended up working out. But that was really the only person that.

And Heinz is a pro. I mean, they just wanted Heinz to come to practice. They wanted him in camp. He was holding out from training camp. He wanted a new contract. And they were like, you know what, unless you come in here and work with us, we're not going to even negotiate a new one. When I put up a list earlier of Brady will retire,

I'm not going to try to predict it, I don't have any idea, probably a couple years left. But in the history of the NFL, there's no great legendary quarterbacks that didn't have really good coaches. You can't have a bunch of slapies as a head coach. Bradshaw had Noel, Aikman had Jimmy, you know, Joe Montana had Walsh, Tom's got Belichick.

I said if Brady retired in the next year, these are the coach quarterback combos, to me with the best chance over the next 12 years to win multiple Super Bowls. Mahomes Reed, Gough McVeigh, Wens-Peterson, Luck Reich, Wilson, Pete Carroll. Your thoughts? I would agree with all, but I think the Wilson-Pete Carroll thing, they've been together for a while. I mean, they've done some things, but they've done that with great defenses too. So I don't agree with that last one, but the rest I would agree with you.

It does feel like Mahomes and Reed, you would be disappointed. If it didn't happen, definitely. In the next 10 years, if I said, they made it. Not 10 years. Like the next year or two, if they don't have at least one trophy, it's something, something has to be done, especially after seeing what they were able to do that first year with absolutely no defense. You know, I've said this, I think Pittsburgh is going to have a really, really good year. Yeah. And we have a history.

Des left the Cowboys, they won more. Ocho left the Bengals, they won more. T.O. left three teams. They all won more. I think Antonio's a remarkable talent, but I do think there was drama. I think sometimes quarterbacks feel like they have to get the ball to star receivers. It opens up the offense. I have John Elway on next hour.

I think it's really hard to evaluate a lot of talent. Yeah. Like I think James Washington's going to be real good. I think he's going to be good. Yeah. I think he's come along, especially from last year to what we're seeing now in this preseason. Yes, definitely. James, could you be a GM?

Could you evaluate young talent? I'm horrible. You're horrible. Tell me about that. I just can't. I can evaluate someone that is doing something now and what they've done. But to say in the next three or four years, this guy right here is going to be this monster that we need. Let's get him.

You couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Is it some of that because nobody thought you were that? That so much of that, what you just explained, is not. physical, it's mental and commitment base. Well, yeah, like I said, I was undrafted. I didn't get, you know, all the opportunities that guys that are drafted high. I sat behind a guy actually for three years because he was a second round draft choice.

So, you know, not getting that opportunity, I think you kind of doubt yourself. You know what I'm saying? And then you have to go in there and work and grind. And now you're like, you know what, I wasn't a one. So just because you're drafted at one don't mean you're going to come up and be this Hall of Fame player. Yeah. James Harrison is joining us.

So we got some preseason games tonight. We got Cam Newton's playing New England. Aaron Rogers is playing Oakland. Just off the top of your head, how do you think Aaron Rogers Green Bay new coach do? Your gut feeling on that. I think if things are ran the way Aaron Rogers wants them ran, then it'll be okay.

If it's any push or pull going on, then it's going to be a difficult transition. And like they say, The quarterback is the one that stays, so it may be a hard year if that happens. Do you think they'll be pushed back? Do you think it'll be at times bristly? Do you think there's a chance it's ugly? Anything's possible, but I don't think, even if it is ugly,

I don't think it'll be played out to where you can actually see it's ugly. You know, the team may know, things aren't too good behind closed doors, but I don't see it playing out openly like that. Aaron can't take another PR hit. Like Aaron's going to keep it low profile. James Harrison, John Elway's coming up. Third hour on our show.

Be a best hour potentially of the week. It's the Herd in L.A. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Well, I just had the greatest five-minute conversation of my life. You know, I don't think I've ever interviewed John Elway,

but I grew up. His family is from around my hometown. And his parents, John Elway has a huge, huge connection. family to the Pacific Northwest and the coast of Washington. And I've said this before. John Elway was the first great professional quarterback I saw live. I was at a Seahawk game in the kingdom. And John Elway was a phenom.

He didn't get college football on television much. You heard about John Elway. You know, the Yankee contract and him, Marino. But you didn't get all these college football games on. You know, ESPN wasn't running 500 college football games. Fox Sports didn't have 150 football games. and now John's had a remarkable career. In fact, Jason Whitlock has said for years,

John Elway's his favorite player of all time. He was mythical because you didn't get to see all his college games. Like now you watch Trevor Lawrence. You can watch him 10 times a year at Clemson. John is now, of course, the Bronco general manager, and I'll try not to fawn over him via the Coward Global Satellite Network. You know, John, it is, first of all, it's an absolute pleasure. You went and hired Vic Fangio.

Now, everybody, anybody that had a cup of coffee, with Sean McVeigh got a job, it's an offensive league. You went with a defensive coach and an older defensive coach. Did you feel like there's risk involved? Why did you go that way? You know, I kind of went into the process with an open mind. I want to try to find the best head coach out there. So I tried to grow in without any pre-drawn conclusions. And obviously, everybody was going young and going offense. But I just wanted to sit down and meet with them all before I came to any conclusions. And I had, you know, every candidate I interviewed was really good.

And but Vic was the last one. And Vic really struck me in the fact that, you know, his attention to detail, his understanding of the defensive side of the game, of football, and his past history. And really thought that he was a perfect fit for us at the time. He's a no BS guy. He gets right to the point. But players love playing for him because he knows, the players know that he puts them in the best situation to be successful. So, you know, I had about a five-hour interview with Vic and really

figured that he was going to be the guy. I still think football is still all about blocking and catching and being disciplined and attention to detail. And Vic has all those type things. And really, you know, never had an opportunity to be a head coach. And I thought with what we needed at the time that he was a perfect fit for us. And so far, it's been tremendous. You know, John, as a general manager, very few great players in any sport have become a great general manager because when you're a great player, maybe it is hard to forget evaluation just to understand what it's like to be a grinder or a mediocre player. And I look at football and I think to myself, I would really struggle to evaluate receivers, but I feel pretty good I can watch a college running back and say, that guy will work at the next level. Are there positions for you, John, in evaluation that you feel strong? with that are harder. Does your quarterbacking help you or hinder you on some evaluation positions?

You know, it does. I think because, you know, it's as much tape and you would think that my, you know, that I would think that I'm better on the offensive side, having been a quarterback and played on the offensive side for so long. It does help me with assignments and knowing routes and how, you know, with wide receivers, how ride receivers, what I liked in wide receivers. But it also helped me, you know, I also look at the defensive side of the ball and really look at corners and safeties, which a lot of times are the toughest ones, but I know what I liked going against, and I like what I, I know what I did like going against. And I think that that helps me as an evaluator with the secondary, as well as linebackers and pass rushers. And so I think my experience,

but from the viewpoint of all the defensive tape that I watched, because I never watched offenses other than a review of our game. I spent all my time watching defensive players, and so therefore, you know, I felt like sometimes I'm better looking at defensive players than I am offensive players, not necessarily running or wide receivers, but because of what I've watched my whole career. But, you know, then again, you know, you have your strengths and you have your weaknesses and you rely on your scouts and you rely on the people around you that have that you feel like are good in different areas and, you know, you trust them and what they see. you were unique. You had the arm. You had the size. You had the intellectual pedigree. You had,

you were an athlete. You were very much, I would say, a Patrick Mahomes. You know, you watch him playing. Even a guy like me can figure it out. But if you look at the history of the NFL, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, I can go, Peyton Manning wasn't very athletic. Philip Rivers played at NC State. You know, there's a lot of Phil Sims. In fact, I'd argue there's a lot more Phil Sims in the history of this league than there are John Elways. How much to you is arm talent? And how much of this quarterback position, John, is guts, chip on the shoulder, toughness being able to get hit, leadership?

Do you, because you had a great arm. Does arm matter to you a ton? You know, I think it helps. I don't think it's an end-all. Obviously, you don't need a great arm. You know, I think there's plenty of guys in the league that have proven that you don't need a great arm. You need the intellect.

There's no question. As you said, the players, that you just mentioned were all tremendous players that weren't necessarily great athletes, but they're still good athletes to play in the NFL. So, you know, and I will go back and the one thing that I guess I did learn over my time playing, Colin, is the fact that

to win, what I believe is to win a Super Bowl, I believe you have to win it from the pocket. And, you know, you can get outside and make plays, you know, run around and make some, you know, third down, pick up some third downs and do that. But I don't think you can make that a consistent.

way to win football games. I think overall you have to be able to win it from the pocket. And that's why the guys that you mentioned are so great and have had so much success because they're not necessarily getting out running around, but they're able to win it from the pocket. And I think to win championships, that's what you have to do. You know, John, one of the things football is safer today, John. There's less hitting.

There's fewer two a days. But here's what I don't like about it. I think offensive line play has deteriorated. I think it's harder to know you don't get let you get less practice with offensive lines. I think that position. So we have this asset called quarterback and I think it's harder to get people to protect the quarterbacks. I know in Denver you've had some hits and some misses on the offensive line. Football has changed.

It's safer for the players. But do you think all the safety measures and less practice are good for the players? I do. I think it is good for the players. And I think that, you know, with rule changes, they're making the game safety. I think they're taking the unnecessary hits out of the game, and that's what we're trying to do, is to prevent the big hits that are not necessary. Football is always going to be a physical game, and it's always going to be, you know, blocking and tackling. But I think with where the rules are going, going as far as the amount of practices, they don't beat on each other nearly as much. much than, you know, than we used to, which, you know, helps with the health. I will all say when you're talking about the offensive line, I would also say that, you know, they're not getting

trained in college as well either, because the offenses are changing in college and with the spread offenses and they're in two-point stances, you know, the downhill running game is, is not there anymore in college football. So the offensive linemen are not getting trained coming out of college like they used to either. And so it just takes longer for, the offensive linemen develop once they get up to, you know, the NFL level. Finally, John, you obviously, you know, you have aged very well. You're running an NFL team. But you were diagnosed about 10, 12 years ago with Dupitran construction with your hands.

And, you know, weather-related, DNA, family. I want you to talk about that a second because you've largely been seen as somebody that is very healthy post-football. But you do. you got diagnosed with something years ago. I did. It was back in 2005, and it's called DuPetrans Contraction, and it's really the bending of your fingers in your hands to where it becomes they bend more and more all the time.

And at some point in time, you know, they just continued to bend. And so I was diagnosed in 2005, and at that point in time, the only option was surgery. And after playing 16 years, and I'd had plenty of surgeries after I retired and had decided that You know, I didn't want to have another surgery. And so it continued to get worse on me, my hands. I have it in both my hands on my ring fingers, and they just continued to contract. And then about two years ago, I found out that there was a non-surgical option to be able to fix the problem of Dupitrin's.

And so I'm proud to be a part of this message to be able to get it out to people and get the understanding of what Dupitrent is about. And there are a lot of different options now, more options than there used to be. and you can go to facts onhand.com, and that explains a lot of it. But also, if you feel like this is symptoms that you may have to go see your hand doctor and see if it's something that they can fix. By the way, you're in the AFC as a general manager. Have you ever texted or called Tom Brady and say, Tom, could you just retire already?

It's good God, you've got a trophy room. When you talk to Brady is an all-time great, what makes it click for him? You know, I think that, you know, it had a chance when Tom was young, when we were both younger, to play some golf with him and get a chance to know him. And I really tell you that obviously the success that Tom's had has been tremendous. But I think, you know, ultimate, we see everything on the outside, the fans see what he's about. But ultimately, you know, what makes Tom click is, you know, is that heart and what's inside and the desire to win, the competitive nature that he has, the toughness, the mental toughness. that he has and to be able to play big and big games. And, you know, that's what he's done so well for so long at 42 years old. He's still clicking along. I can't wait until he's 47. I don't

know if he'll still be around, but I'm hoping to be at 47. Then we'll all have a chance. By the way, John, I remember when you retired. I remember it. It shocked people, John. You had good football left in you. Have you ever for one second thought, you know, I was a super, I probably had two more years left. Because I remember when you retired, I was a kid, I remember thinking, John Elway retired. Do you ever look back at that and think you could have gotten two more years out of it? You know, I guess I always look at it, especially when you get away from the game,

you miss it and you say, you know what, maybe I could have played a couple more years. But I've just looked at the situation that I had in Denver and having coming off two world championships. My last season there, I kind of had some hamstring problems. And I cracked a rib. So I had some health problems. What I found is I didn't heal. And so the game didn't heal very well. And so the game became harder and harder.

And I just thought, yeah, sure, I could have probably played a couple more years. But I really just thought being allowed to leave the game on an all-time high with two championships was the best way to go. And if I left something on the table, I'd rather leave it on the table with something left to go. And that go a couple more years and have left one year too late. So I want to make sure I left too early rather than too late. John, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I admire your career and you personally and for joining us on the herd today.

I really appreciate it. You don't, you know, you didn't have to do this. And I thank you so much for stopping by. Boy, thank you for having us on your con. I really appreciate it. It was great talking to you about the Grace Harbor up there. And nice to know though. I know someone else from the area.

Yep. John Elway, Bronco GM. His parents were, went to Hokweim High School. which is about 20 minutes from where I grew up. Good stuff. By the way, aluminum carry-on luggage, best I've ever had, away travel.com slash Colin, $20 off when you enter the promo code, C-O-L-I-N.

I kind of fall in there a little bit. Well, I mean, yeah, it's John Elway. It was like the first pro quarterback I ever saw live. I can remember being in the kingdom as a kid. First row upper deck. And just watching John, I remember this. I'm a high school quarterback, crappy. And John's just flicking the ball in the Seahawk helmet,

Old Kingdom, flick in the ball, the 50-yardland, half shirt on, and just like a golfer, just hitting the flag. And it was like this. Just boom, boom. You know who it reminded me of? Trevor Lawrence at Clemson when I watched him two years ago to high school camp.

And you're like, what? Isn't it crazy? Like, kids will only know of him as... Oh, God, John Elway was... Yeah. Well, most kids didn't remember John Madden as a football coach. He was a commentator or a video game guy. John Elway was almost mythical.

You didn't get a C college guys You didn't get Alabama's got 11 games on TV or 10 I saw John play one time on television Like that was it Like the rank Washington Huskies went down to Palo Alto And that was it And then you know And then I saw a bunch of video

Then he was all over video And you could go back and watch games But yeah all time stuff Joy with the news Turn on the news This is the herd line news Well the latest chapter In the ongoing saga

of Zeke and his holdout was yesterday. We do an update. Yesterday Stephen Jones took a little shot at Zeke's agents telling the media I have a lot of respect for most agents. I really do. I think they're trying to do their job for these players. But I do think sometimes they don't have the same endgame that

maybe the players should and we do. And now we have a big update from Ed Wurter who just reported sources. The most recent offer in negotiations between holdout Ezekiel Elliott and the Cowboys came from the team Elliot has been offered a contract making him one of the NFL's second highest paid running backs.

Take it. Take it. The team is offering him more than Levyon Bell and less than Todd Gurley. So Todd Gurley has a contract of $57.5 million with an average of $14.4 a year. And Leveon Bell has $52.5 million, with an average of 13.1 per year. See, if you're going to ask for something two years early, I'll give you the security, but I won't make you highest pay. This is completely fair. And based off of what happened with Todd Gurley last year in the Super Bowl,

it's going to be very tough to argue that you need to be the highest paid running back. That and obviously the incidents that he's had. This is a great offer for Ezekiel Elliott. And as smart, the team put it out there because now if he doesn't take it, it's going to start to look a little bit out of hand. Yeah. Hey, Zique, you want it two years early and you have all sorts of baggage. You're not going to get everything.

When you ask for a contract two years early, I'll give you the security and the money up front, but I'm not making you highest paid. You've got to give something back. And again, if you would have been a perfect citizen, I would think differently. But that's part of the game, too. No, you're absolutely right. And this is a great situation for both of them. Because not only would it get him back on the field and back in practice, it would end the holdout, get everyone back together.

But this also is what he's looking for. Now, this is the kind of the conversation that Stephen Jones was having where it's like, okay, this is a really fair offer. Based off of everything that comes with Ezekieliot, this is a fair offer. Now, it becomes, I just want to be the highest paid. I mean, Leveon Bell held out for a reason. He got the money that he wanted, and he still isn't the highest paid. So you've got to be realistic at some point. And I want everyone to get paid and get their money, and they should, and Ezekieliet deserves it.

But this is a really good offer. So, Colin, what's your favorite tailgate that you've ever been to? Have you been to a lot of tailgates? Yeah, no, I went, I've been on a boat at the University of Washington, eating crab and drinking good cold deer. That's pretty strong. That's pretty strong, yeah. Yeah, University of Miami, tailgates, especially in night games, are basically like a scene out of euphoria. It's mayhem.

They're good tailgates in Miami, yeah, although very hot, so you've got to be prepared for the humidity. Well, a recent poll asked fans which NFL player they'd enjoy the most having at their tailgate, and the result of, are kind of interesting to me. So Tom Brady won, 42% of the vote. Aaron Rogers got 19% of the vote. Gronk, who obviously is not currently playing, but 18.7% of the vote, Antonio Brown, and then Baker Mayfield.

This list is very wrong. These aren't guys I would have picked. First of all, Tom Brady doesn't eat food. Or drink beer. So I don't want someone at the tailgate that's like, where's the grilled avocado? Not that avocado isn't a nice addition to many dishes. It usually goes in guacamole at tailgates.

I mean, so Tom would be literally you'd be wanting to hang out with him. And he'd be boring kale. This is more like who would you just want to hang out with? Like a tailgate is, who you invite to your tailgate is very specific. Like if this is me, I'm going with any offensive linemen in the league over Tom Brady. Because they just eat like crazy. You want people that eat and are like fun.

And drink beer. Yeah, you're not per take. You aren't just hanging out asking for water. You know, an interesting guy that is smart and fun. Larry Fitzgerald literally has played for like 20 years. And there's been enough dysfunction in Arizona. If you got a couple beers in Larry, hey, what happened here?

What happened there? What happened? Right. You've got to be more strategic with this. I want somebody that gossips. Baker would be good. Baker's fun. Oh, yeah. He'd gossip.

But he's going to be the life of the party. Obviously, we know what Gronk is. That makes sense. But Baker doesn't have much of a career. You're going to ask him about questions. He's been in the league like an hour. But a tailgate to me is, like, you're getting ready for the game. You're all hanging out.

You know, you're drinking or eating a bunch of food. I'd want somebody from a real, like, tailgatey city like Kansas City or Pittsburgh Brett Fav would be pretty good Brett Farr would be well now we're getting into retired guys so that's a little different You think too much like a host

You seem to want to interview the guy You wouldn't be fun to tailgate with You would just be asking questions all the time I want someone who's a fun hang Who's a fun hang in the guy? Baker would be phenomenal he would be a good time I think like Juju Mahomes

And you want young guys too If like tailgated recently You like been around that you know I wouldn't be that much fun I didn't say guys we've got to go to bed early I'm going to be responsible We got to be responding to drink and drive is not acceptable Of course not no no no

None of that So finally the XFL officially announced their team names And logos yesterday Yeah I saw that And they are glorious This is my list So well not my list is the list of names But also the ones I like the most

So they have the Dallas renegades The D.C Defenders The Houston Roughnecks The Los Angeles Wildcats The New York Guardians Seattle Dragons, St. Louis Battlehawks, and the Tampa Bay Vipers.

I thought actually Dallas, that's a great helmet. I thought Dallas had the best name and the best helmet. I think they have the best name also. I love D.C. Defenders. And the L.A. Wildcouts is fun, too. You know, a little ode to Wildcats, Goldie Hawn. You remember that movie?

No. It's the sport of kings. It was Battlehawks. I don't know what a battlehawk is. But I like that logo, though. And it's very Seattleish. It kind of It's the

Seattle's the drags St. Louis Seattle is the Dragons, yeah. Is it Game of Thrones or sign on watch those shows? It is a big game of Thronesy. But yeah, really good names.

Good stuff. Renegades, defenders, and wild cuts. And by the way, when the camps end, the NFL, XFL is going to select eight quarterbacks once all the NFL cuts are done, then they'll have their draft in October.

Well, Oliver Luck announced that XFL's first signing on our show, which is Landry Jones. The inaugural 2020 season kicks off in February on Fox and FS1 draft is in October, mini camp in December, and then training camp in January of 2020.

They're also going to have some pretty cool rules, like unique extra points, modified set up for overtime, and they're going to have a shorter play clock to, you know, increase the tempo, yeah. Good stuff. They've done a really good job on their social media stuff. They got really slick. You can tell it's WWE

is part, you know, running this league. Yeah, the marketing's been great. Yeah, the marketing's been. I love all the logos, like simple, great names, really strong. Yeah, it's really slick. Yeah, it's really slick. really slick. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Line News. Jason McIntyre, one of my favorite segments, tomorrow's headlines today, wrapping up a Thursday show. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Jason McIntyre founded the big lead,

then bailed on it after he made a fortune. And then he comes to Fox, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, all that stuff. and we created this segment that America loves called Tomorrow's Headlines Today as he takes his former newspaper vibe, your understanding of the industry, and you give us headlines early. By the way, nice pants today. Oh, thank you very much.

How kind of you, Colin. I got these, the nice wardrobe department here at Fox. We're like, those look great, Jason. Lo-with-them. Everybody look at Jason McIntyres. They're new. Yeah, I got them. Hey, by the way, can I ask you quickly about your tennis match with Doug Gottlieb?

Because you keep ducking me. And Gottlieb was like, Cowher's good. He beat me. Yeah. So when are you going to play a real tennis player? I don't play people in their 20s. Oh, I'm not my 20s. Oh, come on.

I got to, you know. I'm not that good. But Gottlieb said you kind of dusted him. Like, you know, 6'3, something like that? Oh, let's not get into that particular. He's so humble. He's humble. It was fine.

Are you working with Agassi's old coach? I'm working with, sadly, strangely, bizarrely, I'm working with Roger Federer and Pete Sampras. Oh, wow. No wonder you crushed Gahly. He just, he happens to be at our club occasionally. He called me on the air and he said, I like your show.

Let's go have coffee. We did, and he said he was a tennis coach, and I'm like, yeah, that's funny because I'm a crappy tennis player. Oh, yes, obviously. Paul's great. All right, tomorrow's headlines today. Who's going to win the standoff, Cowboys and Ezekiel Elliott, tomorrow's headline today? Yeah, well, this one's easy, Colin, because, you know, you've been wrong all week. The headline will be, dear Cowboys, Zeke Help, as in Seek Help, obviously.

Listen, this is getting ugly. I'm sure you just saw within the last 30 minutes the report from Ed Werder that, you know, the Cowboys said, we'll make you the second highest paid player at the position in the league. And Ezekiel Alia's like, that's not going to cut it. I want above Gurley, this is getting ugly. And I don't see a winner here, Colin. You know, Jerry Jones is a billionaire who I thought pretty deftly handled the Tony Romo done, Dak Prescott in.

I thought he did a good job. So did I. I don't think he's doing a good job with this. Because, again, we've shown the stats a couple weeks ago when Ezekiel Elliott's out, Dak Prescott struggles. And I want to remind you, Amari Cooper has buried. practice with this team since August 3rd due to a heel issue. You're looking into week one against a rival.

Here are the numbers. Stack with and without Zeke. Now Amari Cooper's kind of got a bum wheel and you're playing a rival, the New York Giants. Now, we talk gambling a lot. I'm already on the Giants getting seven and a half in week one. If they lose that game, Jerry Jones is going to have to come begging and groveling

to Ezekiel Elliott to come back. I don't see how you can be confident in the Cowboys without Ezekiel Elliott. I just, tomorrow's headlines today. Will the Antonio Brown drama ruin the Raiders entire season? I mean, Raiders fans have been killing me

online for about a week. They're just so angry. Well, when you go, no playoffs, 15 out of 16 years, you know what happens? So the headline will be for the Raiders stung by a B. Oh, not bad. I like that.

Very creative staff we've got here. Hey, here's a funny note. Somebody mentioned this to me. You know, Antonio Brown's been chirping about retirement since March. He just happens to keep bringing it up. But now he's got the cryotherapy injury. He's got the helmet issue. Colin, this is just not going to go well. I don't see how anybody can be confident in the Oakland Raiders. They've got so much going on. Vegas, the new stadium, Gruden, three first round rookies they're trying to work in. This is going to

be an unmitigated disaster. I think it could be who they're paying and how they're paying it. their offensive right tackles, the highest paid linemen in the league. Their big-name players all come with some baggage. I don't mind having baggage in a locker room. I would prefer it not be with my best players. Remember, this was their splashy signing in the offseason. We're getting Antonio. And Vontes Burfect.

And then Trent Brown's overpaid. Richie incognito. By the way, he's suspended for the first two games. Another lineman is injured. So they're going to be down two linemen in the opener against the Denver Broncos and Von Miller and Bradley Chub. I'm telling you, you look at that Raiders schedule. Toughest in the NFL by far.

But most travel in league history. I mean, four back-to-back trips, if they're one and five, just remember I said this, Antonio Brown's never played on a losing team. I can't wait to see how he performs when they're one in five. Adam Schaefter suggested Tom Brady could quit soon. Will Tom Brady actually call it quits after the season? Yeah, I know why you're bailing on talking about Brady quitting because he'll never quit, but the headline will be Tom Voyage.

That's three for three, Joy. He's feeling these. It just lines up for Brady going out on top. Now, I interviewed him a couple times early in his career. One of them was at a Victoria's Secret Party in New York City. Cool. Classic Brady. He's just a chill guy.

He's very relaxed. And when you look at John Elway going out on top, right? Peyton Manning going out with a Super Bowl win. Even guys like Jerome Bettis, Ray Lewis, everybody winning and exiting, I just don't see why Brady would go beyond this year. 42. Well, his health and wellness brand, he's not going to limp to the finish line. Tom wants to be formidable physically.

Forget not winning a Super Bowl. I think the one thing that would spur an exit is an injury, and Tom is physically kind of wobbling to the end, because his brand is health, extension of career. That would be bad for Tom, the football player, and Tom, the post football player. Yeah, TB12, baby. I mean, listen, if Brady can keep going, that would be incredible. And it's just everything to me lines up.

By the way, did you know Grankowski departing is a huge loss? Brady's passer rating is down 15 points in the 33 games that he has lost Grankowski since Gronspin with the Patriots. Well, that's why they brought Demarius Thomas. They drafted in Achille, Henry, and Josh Gordon. Those are physical receivers. They don't have that physical component. Tight end is a big question. We'll see what's going on on on left tackle as well.

Finally, will the Cardinals quarterback, Kyler Murray, bounce back from his rough preseason start? Oh, boy. It's easy to go after Kyle Murray and Cliff Kingsbury, right? The headline will be two sport athlete picks the wrong sport. I already want to apologize for going in on Murray. He has struggled, but if you read Cliff Kingsbury's quotes, they're showing nothing in the preseason. They're doing two tight-end sets.

He doesn't do any of that in the regular season. So they're not really showing anything, but I've got the craziest stat on the Cardinals. Last year, their offensive line started 13 different guys. 13. That's the most the league has ever seen in 18 years. Wow. Josh Rosen, you can see why he struggled.

Kyler-Marie, I just have a feeling we're going to see baseball memes on social media every week that he gets destroyed because he's going to take a lot of hits. Cliff Kingsbury, I want to like him, Colin? This is a guy who essentially was fired at his last stop and he had a losing record. And now he's a head NFL football coach because everybody says, hey, we got to go young. We got to spread offense. We got to go. I just, I think it's going to be a rough year. and we're going to see some people mocking.

It was a very interesting draft for them. So if you watch, you know, if you watch PFF, the Cardinals' offensive line is a huge problem. Here was their draft picks, though. It was very funny. Quarterback, corner, wide receiver, and receiver safety receiver. They went perimeter on a lot of their draft picks. My question with Arizona is, once you get the quarterback, your job is to, to protect that asset.

Yeah. It's amazing. They went quarterback, then a corner, a receiver, one defensive end, a receiver, a safety, another receiver. That's their top six picks. Like, I'm interested. Maybe they believe he can just run his way to safety, but they got to address this offensive line.

It's old. It's unathletic. It's injury prone. It's a mess. People were worried about Lamar Jackson taking hits last year with the Ravens. I mean, Lamar Jackson is considerably bigger than Kyla Murray. I'm worried. You know, some of these.

NFL linebackers. These are heat-seeking missiles. Yep. And Kyle Murray's a tiny guy. It could be a rough, rough first year. J-Mack, good stuff. Get your free credit scorecard today. Learn more at Discover.com slash credit score. It includes your FICA credit score. Checking it will not hurt your credit. Limitations applied. Discover card. We'll see you tomorrow. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

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