The Herd with Colin Cowherd - OKC Takes Game 5 Over Pacers, Durant Wants To Join Spurs, Ja Morant’s Future? Desmond Bane Perfect For Magic

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Colin’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down game 5 of the NBA Finals plus some of the top stories from around the league! They begin with the Thunder taking a 3-2 lead over the Pacers, powered by SGA and Jalen Williams 71 combined points and tip their cap to Williams for the years of work he’s put in to reach his high level of play (3:30). They also highlight Chet Holmgren and the OKC defense as one of the biggest factors in the win (9:00) and discuss why they feel the eastern conference will be wide open going forward (14:15). They react to the massive haul paid by the Magic in the Desmond Bane trade but also point out why he’s the perfect piece for Orlando to add (25:30). They discuss the tumult surrounding the Grizzlies, what to make of Ja Morant’s future as his trajectory is pointing down (29:00), and why Morant is a cautionary tale (34:00).  Finally, they react to the reports that Kevin Durant prefers the Spurs as a trade destination, debate whether it’d be the best fit out of his potential suitors (44:00) and comment on the positive trends in the league (53:00).   (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Heavy Monday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having a great start to your week. Well, the pivotal game of the NBA finals tonight. Series tied at two back in Oklahoma. City and the thunder behind 71 combined points from Shea Gildes Alexander and Jalen Williams take a three two lead in the series. Colin Coward is joining us again. Colin, you and I talked last after game three, I believe, about the rosters. And we talked about how down the roster, Indiana is pretty close in terms of depth of talent, but that the top end on Oklahoma City

can be tough to contend with. And I thought both J. Dub and Shea were brilliant tonight. What were your thoughts on game five. Jalen Williams is such an interesting player. So he goes to a small college, Santa Clara, and, you know, he's a slow developing player. And the last part of his game to mature was scoring. You know, he was long. He worked really hard. I think both of his parents were in the military. You know, classic, like hardworking, no BS. You know, you can see his game. You can see the work he's put into it. Whenever you see a guy with great touch around the rim, a lot of guys can hit jumpers. Everybody, you know, everybody sits and shoots jumpers all day at practice. But when I see a guy that's elegant and soft around the rim, like, that's work. That is years of working in the gym,

often by yourself. And, you know, so here's a guy, small college, develop slowly, comes into the NBA. And you and I have talked about this. I always thought, because check Holmgren was, he's a really good defender. First half tonight, he was incredible. And I always thought because his body type is so unique, can you pay Holmgren, S.J. and Jalen Williams. And I always thought they'd just keep Holmgren. But his offense is so all over the map. And Jalen Williams is just such a natural easy score that you just feel like, if I said for the rest of his career, he averaged 27. And like, not all of them are men. memorable. It's just, he just fills the box, like it's jumpers, it's touch. It's just,

he's just such a natural, easy score. I don't even know if he has a go-to move. Almost every guy, like, if I said, close your eyes, Jason, 27 points a game, if I said Durant or Steph, and I give you players, you can kind of see the archetyque of their offense. Like, you could say, okay, that's his move. That Halliburton's three. with Jalen Williams, it's just all over the place. Threes, driving, transition. I just, there's not a lot of guys in the league like him. Yeah, his power, I think, is his signature.

And I've actually found this really fascinating because if you dig back through NBA history recently, we're on like a decade plus now where power dominates in the NBA finals, unless your name is Steph Curry. Like you go back and it's like in, In 2024, you know, Luca, Luca's the best player in the playoffs. He brings a ton of power to the position. 2023, it's Yokic. Obviously, Steph in 2022, but in 21, it's Janus, power. 2020, it's LeBron. Power. 2019, it's Kauai. Power. You go back again, more Steph Curry, but then it's

Duncan and Kauai. There's a reason why power thrives in this setting, and it's because it gets super physical. I mean, it's really fascinating to me. I've talked about this concept with you before, but to me, ball pressure and physicality on the perimeter in the NBA is similar to me like a pass rush in the NFL. And we see this so often in the NFL playoffs where a pass rush gets hot and nobody can protect the quarterback and plays all breakdown within the first second and a half after the snap. And it changes the entire dynamic of a game. And that's the test you have to pass with this Oklahoma City Thunder team, with this Indiana Pacers team with their ball pressure. These two teams, they pick you up full court. They're super physical.

and it's the powerful guys that thrive. I mean, you don't think it's a coincidence that T.J. McConnell was awesome again tonight because he brings power to the guard position. And what J. Dub is, is he is a big, strong wing that brings downhill power. And you're right. Like, I would argue J. Dub's, you know, skill, talent in position on the game is his versatility. He's just really good at everything. You look at other power players from the wing, like look at, look at, uh, look at, uh,

Jaylen Brown from the Celtics, nowhere near the passer that J-dub is and the processor that J-dub is. J-dub brings this mix of downhill power with shot-making from all three levels, the soft touch around the basket, the mid-range pull-ups, the three-point shooting, but also the playmaking to boot. And then he's also been a guy that's been one of the most important defensive players for the Thunder all season. He is, to me, the definition of the type of player that's going to thrive in the playoffs for a long time, a big strong forward that can do everything. He is the Jimmy Butler of this era. Yeah, and he's one of those guys. Yeah, that's right. I was thinking about his comp tonight, and he's got Jimmy Butler.

You know, he's only about six, five and a half. Like, he plays bigger than his size. And I think that's his length and his touch. But I really thought the story of the game wasn't SGA. I thought the story of the game was Holmgren's defense first half around the rim. I mean, the Pacers probably missed eight chippies. And then I thought in the second half, every time they got close, it was really J-dub that hit a shot. And I mean, so did SGA.

But I was like encouraged. I thought the fact that Indiana got it down at two or three, I was like, this is impossible. This is not winning this game. You know, without Halliburton, to be pretty competitive in the second half, I think speaks well to Indiana. I think they'll play really competitive basketball in game six. You know, I think we've kind of established defense wins championships. And I thought the last three minutes of the last game and tonight, early and late, it's just, we're seeing this defense, like you say, they clog you up and suffocate you on the of the perimeter, you drive sort of sometimes out of control because you're just, they've got a

body on you, and then you throw up kind of a wild shot, and it's often met with resistance at the rim. Even the follow-ups to your misses, even the follow-ups are contested. There's just length and Hartstein and Hungren and bodies. So I think we're seeing, and I talked about this the other day with J-MAC on the air, when we have historically great defenses against great offenses, defense usually wins. It's just disruptive. We've seen Patrick Mahomes blown out twice in his career, both in Super Bowls when he couldn't be protected. I feel like Indiana has just been disrupted,

and without Halliburton at full strength, they just don't have a flow. There's no flow to their offense. Yeah, I thought, I thought Shea was great again tonight. I thought, you know, it's been interesting. He's had a couple of higher scoring total games in this series. He had 35 in game four, didn't think he was particularly great in that game.

had, I think he had 34 in game one. I didn't think he was particularly great in that game. But in this game, you could tell right out the gates, he was making that concerted effort to keep his teammates involved. Colin, they only attempted 16 threes in game four. They had 17 three-point attempts just in the first half tonight because of the better floor game that Shea was playing, keeping everybody involved.

But every time I think about this Thunder team, it is the defense that I'll remember. Like when people talk to me about this Thunder team, I will remember them as a defensive juggerna. And like it's the two-layer approach and you had, you described it perfectly. It is the physical ball pressure that causes you to rush and panic. That is then layered by the rim protection.

And it even extends beyond Shea or beyond Chet, like Shea several times tonight, deflections around the basket because he's got super long arms down there. Chet to me is like kind of the secret sauce of this defense though, because, you know, Colin, we saw a great example in the Houston. a Golden State series in round one. You can have really good perimeter defenders, but every team needs to have big guys on the floor

because big guys are a part of basketball, right? Like, you can't just go out there and play five guards. You'll have all sorts of issues. And big guys are targets. They are the point at which every offense tries to get into your defense by attacking your big guy in pick and roll. And Chet is just this freakish weapon because he can do all the big guy stuff

in terms of length around the rim, but he can also switch out onto the perimeter and guard these guards. And so it's like the, it's like the, the ace in the hole for this thunder defense. It's like you, a lot of times you'll fail the first test.

Like when Pascal hit that three to make it 95, 93, from that point forward, Indy could barely get the ball across half court without turning the ball over. So like, their guards can do an insane amount of damage. But it's like even if you pass that test and you get through the ball pressure and you move the ball through their defense and you get something around the

rim, it's just arms everywhere that you're dealing with at the rim and all of those misses all of those contested rebounds that they came down with Oklahoma City's defense is layered it's frightening it wears you down I mean like Indy was right there and they let go of the rope for like 90 seconds and they're down 13 points and I'm with you as we had the game six I think Indiana always is going to have a chance at home with the energy Oklahoma City is young we have discussed on this show Oklahoma City on the road is not the same team. But I thought Indiana's chance to win this series was to win the home games because I just

think Oklahoma City can leverage their athleticism at home in a way that Indy just can't match. Yeah. And again, Halliburton's heard it's not the same team. It'd be like taking, you know, to some degree, SGA out. So I thought Caruso again tonight. I mean, they forced 23 turnovers. The Thunder did. Think about that.

Indie's a team all year that didn't turn. the ball over. Like Halliburton doesn't turn the ball over. So you take Halliburton out a lot tonight, and it looks really sloppy, really fast. Again, they're just, they're just a special team. I think, you know, Indiana is a surprise to be here. And the West is much better than the East. And so like in the football, the AFC is much better than the NFC. So the AFC becomes much more predictable because you have four or five elite teams, chiefs, bills, Ravens. And I think the West is more predictable because you have like, Oklahoma City has the leading score and the best defense. And Denver has the best player in the world. And the Warriors have the Steve Kern and Draymond and Butler

and Steph. And you kind of know what you're getting in the West, whereas in the East, it's like, who's healthy and who's hot. So Indiana just flies through. But I, but I will say is, so I think the East is wide open. And I think Indiana's pop or, now they were in the Eastern Conference Finals last year, but I mean, they flew through Milwaukee, flew through Cleveland, controlled New York. And we're two, two with this team. And I think some of the trade that Memphis and Orlando made was Orlando going, okay, the Knicks don't have a coach. Tatum's hurt next year. why can't we do an Indiana? We got Suggs, we got Bancarro, we got Wagner.

Let's go get a Western player who averages 19. He may average 22 over here. And I think Orlando looked at Indiana and thought, why not us? I mean, they don't have a guy that scores over 20. Bankero could be first team all NBA next year. So I think when I watch Indiana, I think they're, they're encouraging. They've got young ascending players. They've kind of meshed together in the east, and you're like, okay, it was one thing when Boston was winning with a stacked roster.

Indiana? I think I said it during the Boston-Rlando series. I'm like, man, they're about a year away from being really, really good. So I think Indiana is one of those teams that may not make it back. And it may just be lightning in a bottle. I really like him a lot. but I think O KC is historically special defensively and we're seeing it. Yeah, the East to me feels wide open in a different way where I agree with you.

Like Boston was like this clear number one out east. But then you had this like group of three, four teams that you knew we're going to be in the mix, you know, Milwaukee, New York. That was the mix that we knew was going to be at the top. But now with Boston kind of dropping out of that group, it does feel wide open. Like Cleveland is very good, but everyone knows there be. beatable. Like the, the Bucks will be there if Janus is still there, but like, we know that they're beatable. The Knicks, we know that they have their flaws and their issues. They have a front

court that you can attack defensively. And I think what the Pacers have demonstrated in a lot of ways is that you can, you know, outkick your coverage, so to speak, in terms of the talent on your roster when there is a great deal of one, the coaching that that maximizes the talent. But the second piece is from a general management perspective, like actual complementary pieces that fit in accentuate each other. And that to me is what I look at with the Desmond Bain trade. Because like your initial reaction when you see that sort of thing is to go for first round picks unprotected. Like my goodness, that's a steep paycheck. And like I get that on the surface and ultimately whether or not that ends up being worthwhile will be whether or not this

team has success. And if they have success, they make the finals, no one's going to care about those four first round picks. It's about whether or not this pays off. And Desmond Bain is a perfectly complimentary player to what those two guys do. He is one of the best jump shooters in the NBA. Among 58 players this year to attempt at least 500 jumpers, he ranked 12 in efficiency. And the magic couldn't shoot last year. That's what they couldn't do. They couldn't shoot.

By the way, you want to know who was number one on that list? Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is still the best jump shooter in the NBA. I thought that was interesting when I was digging into the data. but he specifically shot 60% from the field on shot attempts coming off of off ball screens. So when he comes running off of action off the ball, he knocks it down at an extremely high rate. He shot 52% on threes specifically coming off of off ball screens. Wow.

The magic could not create space for Palo and Franz. That was the problem. The Desmond Bain in Memphis, they so desperately needed him to hit shot. because he was their secondary shot creator. It was a little bit too much for him. But in this setting, next to Franz, next to Paolo, it's more important for him to be able to create openings for them. His ability to shoot on the move, shoot it out of screens,

shoot off the dribble, specifically in the context of Franz and Paolo, you're going to get a, it's a force multiplier rather than a diminishing return. And that really is the key. Like when I'm looking at talent, it's like they could have gone and got Bradley Beal and maybe that's a player that you think is a, maybe a higher regarded player in the league or something like that. Desmond Bain's talent fits perfectly with those guys in a wide open conference.

And that's a huge, big, strong team that should be able to cause a lot of damage with their physicality. And the last thing I'll say about it, Colin, Desmond's not the best defender in the world, but he's pretty solid. Jalen Suggs is the best guard defender in the world. And so he will never have to guard the best guard on the other team. He's going to be in favorable

matchups. He's going to be surrounded by physicality. His skill set perfectly matches what Franz and Paolo do. I think it was a type of swing that could legitimately put them in the finals. And Colin, you're the one who's always preaching this on your show. Yes, it was expensive.

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see dkng.com slash audio. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

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It's like Oklahoma City. You don't have this aged star. You don't have this one gigantic paycheck. It's like everybody's pulling in the same direction. Like, they bring in Hartinstein. He's a starter, but like kind of a role player, but great energy. and everybody welcomes him in. Like, everybody that, like, Bain, I was watching the videos today when he got to Orlando,

the guys were like, it's just like, he's one of the guys. He's a young guy who, by the way, because he was in Memphis behind John Morant, probably didn't get appreciated a lot or a lot of attention. And Bain was the more mature player, the more consistent player, the more available player, and the better shooter. But John Morant's great for highlights, so Bain gets overlooked, but not by Smart GM. So Bain's probably like, okay, now I get into a more, You know, this is, I mean, Suggs is a Gonzaga guy, Bancaro, a Duke guy, Vagner's that Michigan guy.

Like, these are grownups. They're ready to play. And I thought, I think we talked about this in the Boston series. It was like, two or three times, you and I were like, why the hell is this series so competitive? Like, Orlando can't shoot. Boston takes the most, this should, we should have some blowouts. And we didn't. The games were really competitive.

We felt that way about the Knicks and the Pistons, too. It's like, God, Kate Cunningham's really graduated to another class. And so I liked it. And I also just aggressive wins. Go get Katie in Golden State. The Lakers, you know, trade for Gasol, trade for Shaq, take big swings. Trade for AD. Absolutely.

Poor Zingis and Drew Holliday, Boston. Like, you have to take swings in this league because you're not going to be able to bank these stars. You're not going to have the heedles. You're not going to have Katie to the Warriors. So what you're going to do is can you get a group of rules? really good B plus A minus guys that all fit. And Orlando fits.

Bain literally fits perfectly with a team. Yeah, it'd be better if it was two first, not four. But those are going to be low first round picks anyway. So I can live with it. And there's like this, the splitting the difference to timelines approach comes with its own shortcomings. Like obviously Golden State was very fortunate on the strength of Steph to win in 2022, but they've been paying the price for not cashing in on some of their

assets over the course of the of the last few years. I feel like Dallas is kind of staring down the barrel of a similar type of situation. Like, you got to capitalize on the value that AD brings to the table if you want to have sustained success around Cooper Flag. And like, I just look at it is, I look at it as just an aggressive move that fits perfectly. Desmond Bain has grown a lot to as a passer coming off of screening actions. And I look at that as something like a simple dynamic in the NBA that can cause all sorts of problems is if you can run a two-man game where they don't want to switch. And the problem is, is when Franz and Palo are together, they get guarded by similar players, big strong forwards. And with Jalen Suggs, he never shot the ball well enough for

teams to really account for him in those actions. If you, as Desmond Bain, as one of the best shooters in the league, come flying off of a screen with Palo, you have no choice but to either switch or to show, in which case Palo will get better matchups, he'll get more. He'll get more smalls to attack. He'll get more openings to attack. I think it's just a really, really smart fit. John Moran, on the other hand, going to be 26 years old at the start of next season. I feel like, I want to hear your take on the John Moran at Memphis situation. Okay, so I feel vindicated. So I have, this has been one of my strongest NBA takes forever, which is if you're under 6'4 in this league and have the ball in your hands a lot,

If you cannot shoot John Wall, you know, Westbrook, Derek Rose, John Morant, you're going to have to drive to the basket against bigger players and you're going to get hurt more often. If you're Steve Nash or Steph Curry and can shoot, it can prolong your career. You can do a, you know, you don't have to drive. You get a lot of no contact looks. And my take on John Morant was, yes, I always said I thought he was a poor man's Derek Rose. He was about 15 pounds less than Derek Rose. And, you know, I understand the NBA media. He's a highlight player.

Forget the maturity for a second, which is I'm never too hard on guys about maturity. I'm much tougher on football players because they're 23 and 24 years old. You bring 22-year-old, you bring 18, 19-year-old guys into the NBA. Okay, they're going to screw up. Like the first couple years, just build in a really bad decision. Now, with John, it was worse than that. But for me, it wasn't the maturity stuff because he's a kid. It was, okay, he's wildly, he's wildly entertaining.

He's an incredible highlight player, but he's not an effective shooter. And by the way, the last several years, it's gotten worse and he's hurt more. So he has aged very quickly. So I've never been a fan of hyperathletic guards that aren't particularly good shooters. Now, Westbrook was so athletic that he could be a poor shooter. he's bouncing around the league now, but there's just not a lot of Westbrooks historically. And Westbrook mostly is healthy. He's a sturdy, he's a running back. Jaws not. I mean, what's Jal? 180? You know, 178, so he's spindly. So I just, it's not that I wasn't a fan.

He was a spectacular talent. But I think everybody in the league thought Zion and Jha were going to take it over. And it's going to be a, it's going to be Bankero and SGA and these players. I mean, it's just, it's just interesting. how much maturity and hard work matters. You know, J-dub, SGA, Holmgren. I mean, it's just like really focused, driven, aspirational players. And I think it was just too much too soon for him. And he got banged up. And I think Memphis by the trade is telling you, we're going to start over. We're going to start. And it's the right move. They can't compete. We knew it this year. It's the right move by Memphis. I actually like what Memphis did. It's just they won't be very good for a couple years. Yeah, you know, we were talking about power earlier. And the one example of a guy who

succeeded despite a lack of power is Steph. And Steph is both a great shooter and someone who has been consistently available to his team. He's been healthy. Yeah. Yeah. And the tricky thing with like, Jaws is going to be 26 years old at the start of next season. And he's just straight up not as good as he was three years ago. Like not as good. He's just not as good at basketball. And like this is the age, 26, 27 is typically the age when players peak. Like Tatum, best season of his career right at this age. This is the age when everyone seems to kind of figure it out. It's where it's kind of where like the meeting point of the mental part of the game and the physical part of the game. And from this point forward, it's kind of like a tradeoff. You get a little

smarter, a little more skilled, but you get a little less athletic. This is the peak, right? And instead, like his scoring volume has like in 2022 takes his team to within two wins of the conference finals he's going head to head with step talking shit to him having such a great breakout playoff run and ever since then his scoring volume has dropped every season since that year his efficiency has gone down he just posted his two lowest games played totals of his career in the last two seasons he's played fewer games in the last two years than he did three years ago combined like it's a it's been a downward trajectory. And so if you're Memphis and you're looking at it, you just got four unprotected first round picks from Orlando. There still is some young, exciting talent on the roster, some guys

like Gigi Jackson that are interesting, Zach Eadie, that's interesting. They have guys in-house that they can continue to develop and be fun, but they can bring in a massive trove of draft picks by trading Morant and Bain and just doing a full pivot. Not to mention Jaron Jackson, who I think carries a great deal of value somewhere around the league. And so I look at it as like basically it's a turning point for John Moran. You either got to commit to him or you've got to get off the ship. And the trade is a clear sign that they're going to get off the ship. Not to mention like they might look to trade KCP.

I wouldn't be surprised if KCP gets moved to a contender at some point in the next season. I think it's just Memphis looking at their situation and going like we're sick of being in this business. It's so, Jai is such a cautionary tale. When you look at big stars that explode and then fall off and don't eventually rise to the level, it's always kind of a maturity thing. It's almost always that. Like you just couldn't handle a spotlight. Like Zion couldn't handle his weight.

Wasn't a terribly focused player. Zion, I thought, was a tremendously just massive torque. There's just nothing like him. I thought Jal was spectacular. But I think it's one of the reasons I like NIL is kids are going to stay in. in college and they're going to be surrounded by non-basketball players and they're going to be coached hard and they'll go to class and it's like it's a it's a big broad life beyond just basketball and a g league so i think and i've talked about this multiple times i think nils were

going to help the nbba and college basketball and you're going to get more guys the auburn player who j smack loves Auburn's got a guard that's explosive he's coming back to auburn he could playing the NBA. It'll make him a better NBA player and a great college player. So, and some of these European guys now are coming over to college basketball. So I think the coaching in college basketball has always been excellent, sometimes almost too dogmatic, right? Like, it's just so coach-oriented. But I look at JAA, and I think the story of Jha is a little too much too soon and just wasn't quite ready for the stage. I mean, there was a moment in time where you thought, for about a year, maybe two, you're like, oh, he's going to be the face of the league.

I mean, that was about three years ago. And then it all just unraveled. And I don't think we need a face of the league. I thought he, for a while, looked like it. He just wasn't ready for it. It's a lot to ask, and he wasn't ready for it. Yeah, you know, what happens in this league, it's success is so short-lived because people are coming for you.

You know, like Janus looks like he climbs the mountaintop in 2021. Looks like he's going to launch this new. Nope, here comes Yokic. And he's the problem. It's like, Jha looks like he's about to climb the mountain top in 2022. Shea and aunt have both lacked him since they've kind of reached their collective ceilings. And like, I think, you know, I do believe in John Morant. I do.

He has a supreme athletic trait in the ability to get downhill. He actually is an underrated shot maker close to the rim in terms of. of like his floater and like little short stuff. I do think there's somebody that should probably consider taking a bet on him or a chance on him. As I look around, you know, we're going to talk about KD here in a second. And KD is, we're going to talk about it in more detail here in a second, but the athletic is reported that KD is preferring the spurs, which we'll get to in a minute.

Yeah. But like Houston, if Houston can't get KD, like would they consider a guy like John Morant? is there a team out there that has the, that's in a tough position that can afford to take that kind of risk? Maybe a Sacramento, a team that's been kind of stuck in mediocrity. Like, is there a team out there that is willing to take a risk on a guy like him? Because I do think the upside is their calling. Like, I've seen a lot of stuff over the last couple days ranking him at various points in the league. And I do think when he's healthy, he's still like right around the 14th or 15th best player in the NBA,

because no one can keep him in front. He is an extremely talented player. That's the frustrating part, is that it hasn't come together. But I do think that there's somebody out there that's going to take a chance on him, but ultimately whether or not it works out is going to be whether or not Jha actually makes the changes

that he needs to. You've got to improve. You have to develop as a jump shooter to take it easier on your legs. If he develops as a jump shooter, it will make his downhill drives more dynamic and less frequent, which will help him stay healthier and available to his team.

There is a real upside there. He just hasn't been able to capitalize on it. BMW didn't just design an electric SUV. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With the BMW IX, you'll experience unmatched power, utility, utility, utility, my favorite feature, cloud-based navigation. Monitor's charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease.

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We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up as a, potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchen won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business, yes, whiskey business brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official Whiskey of the Colin Coward podcast. Colin, what are your thoughts on the report that Kevin Durant prefers the Spurs?

I was not a huge fan of this fit. We were talking last week about how Wembe being very thin, KD being very thin. Even Deer and Fox, he's a super fast guard, but he's not a power player. Not a lot of power on that roster, Colin. What are your thoughts on KD potentially going to the Spurs? Well, I mean, to me, Wembe Njama and Stefan Castle are the team. Like, there's nothing against Deerrin and Vassel. But I think those two guys are all-stars, one of them all NBA.

So, and I think they're just getting better fast. I think I'm always cautious to say Kevin Durant doesn't. fit anywhere. I think he fits everywhere. That's like my wife, OSA, always says, like salt works with everything. Like my son was a chef, my stepson, it's like, yeah, bacon, grease and butter work with everything. That's Kevin Durant. Like, you can just find a spot for a guy who's the best jump shooter at any given juncture in the league. So, and I also think Kevin, it just kind of figures it out. You know, I don't always like his decision making on teams, but even in Brooklyn, he was the one thing I liked about it. He was the one thing. I mean, in, in Arizona, in Phoenix, it was Bradley Beal

that drove us nuts. Kevin Durant was given me 26 and 27. I'm not disappointed with him. I've been disappointed with, you know, his like team selection, but I just kind of feel like he's water. like he just he just kind of floats and finds his level and I think he'll fit anywhere. And I also think you've got really smart between Chris Paul and Deerrin Fox. You have good guiders on that team, like really smart guys. And you can be a really flawed team if you're intelligent. We've talked about the Miami Heat, like one of the smartest teams in league history. It's like Alan, LeBron, Wade, Bosch, Batier, a Bade, a.

Haslam, it's like, jeez, high functioning. They didn't have a center. Chalmers drove everybody crazy. Wade and LeBron kind of had duplicate games, and you're like, yeah, they got to four straight finals. Like, they just figured shit out, right? And I kind of feel like if you put Wemby and it's Fox and it's, you'd have to move off, I think Harrison Barnes we talked about before.

I think it was the, but I mean, I just think KD would work. I think it would just work. I think Houston needs him more. But, I mean, I think he looks at Houston and thinks, all right. Like, San Goon, yeah. Amand Thompson, is he a great offensive player yet? He's more of an athlete defensive player. I don't know.

I think Katie Smart and looks at it and just thinks, man, I could have bad shooting nights and we could score 128 in San Antonio. Like, I think that's how he looks at it. maybe I'm wrong. You know, I want to be clear. Just because I say it's not my favorite fit doesn't mean it can't work. Like, I'm a big believer. Don't overthink things.

Like, don't overthink Kevin Durant next to Victor Wimbunyama and Darren Fox. Like, they're going to score a lot of points and they're going to be able to get a certain number of stops. There's, I, there is, we were just talking about with Desmond Bain. There's a reason why Desmond Bain's shooting is so incredible. incredibly valuable in the Orlando context on a team that not only doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots, but doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots off the move. So it's uniquely super valuable to that team. KD, anchored by the physicality of Houston, I like the kind of like force multiplier effect he could have there. That said, even in the context of San Antonio, he's obviously

a massive upgrade. He's obviously going to make them way better. There's even like some interesting stuff you could look at in the big picture. KD. is like probably the best shooting workout guy in the league to pair to pair victor wembe yama with he's legendary for the quality of his shooting workouts him going game speed him working on shots that are specifically available in NBA games off of certain actions katy is like a legend in his workouts off the floor wemby's going to be doing all those workouts with him you know he is and it would lead to a certain development in terms of wemby's big picture help but it looks to me more like less of a

immediate contender juggernaut and more of like kind of a fun place for Katie to end his career where he can go hand in hand in Wemby. That's what I think. I think Katie looks at it and thinks this would be fun. I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have to drop 28. Points would come easy.

And I think Katie looks at it and thinks, okay, Deeran Fox, you know, Wemby, the structure of the organization, they draft smart players. They don't draft a lot of ego. They don't draft a lot of dummies. I think Katie looks at himself and thinks, okay, Houston's got this.

There's a lot of stuff in Houston that I'm not sure it's ever going to be great in the playoffs. It's a lot of hyper-athleticism and length and running. And that's fun. But I think, I don't think at this point he wants to be a mentor. Right? Like I think he wants to go, I don't go have some fun and play with really smart players, highly functional players. and all put the pressure on me to figure out where I fit. You know, like, they don't need him.

I think Houston needs him. I think the Knicks could really use him. So I think, you know, I think for KD, it is, I think it's perfect. That would be fun. It would be fun for him. And I think it would be fun for us. It falls in line with the same ideology that led him to Golden State. You know, like, to your point, KD could win a title in Houston.

but it would be a chore. And offense would come very difficult. He'd be facing crazy looks. Now, the flip side of that is he wouldn't have to be the same statistical monster in Houston that he would be in other situations because Houston's defense is so good that he would just need to basically lift them over the top on the offensive end of the floor. But there is something to be said about basketball is more fun when the ball is moving around and you're playing with more offensive skill.

Yes. Like KD, if there's one weakness at this point in it is. career. He doesn't pressure the rim a ton. Well, Deeran Fox sure as hell does. So, like, he's going to get to play off of those advantages and play off the ball. Like, there is a, Katie has told us to our faces exactly who he is for years. He loves basketball and he wants to play a fun brand of basketball. That's right. And so even if we look at it on paper and go, oh, Houston, big strong physical team, they can anchor him with defense. IMA Udoca is not the best offensive coach in the world. That team doesn't have a lot of offensive talent. It would be a lot like Oklahoma City in 2016. And I'm thinking he looks at that and

goes, I'd rather play fun, free-flowing basketball with some more talented offensive players. And so with that being the case, I mean, San Antonio is going to be a really interesting team if they pulled something like this off. All of a sudden, a guy like Jeremy Sohan becomes super important because he'd have to be such a defensive anchor for them in terms of size and strength. Stefan Castle, obviously, defensively as a guard would have to do a lot of that work. Again, I'm not sure that I would view that Spurs team is exceptionally dangerous. But what a fun way for Wemby to start his career and what a fun way for Katie to end his career.

Well, I think also Katie looks at LeBron and thinks LeBron's always figured it out is LeBron doesn't want to do a lot of the dirty work. Like if he went to Houston, Katie'd have to do some of the dirty work. He'd be like, he'd be like Steph in Golden State where it's like, oh, Steph plays poorly. That's the narrative when they lose. It's not Jimmy Butler and Steph. Houston very quickly, he would be, because Jalen Green's a hot and cold shooter, and very quickly, if Houston loses, it's like, well, Katie, you know, he had an off shooting night.

We traded for him. He was supposed to save us from this. That's right. And it's just not the case in San Antonio. He'll be part. And I do think as players get older, they're looking for fit. And, you know, it's, it's, and I'm okay with that. I think as I've aged, I've always liked fit. It's, it's just fun to be part of, a group, a mix of young and old, but you don't want to be a mentor. Like, I just don't think, Katie, at this point. I think fun is a really interesting word because Kyrie is fun to play with. That's why he went there. And Golden State no longer because of relationships, he wasn't, he wasn't having a good time. He was winning. And so, yeah, I'm okay with it. He's had an, he's had an all-time career. He's a different cat, but I've, you know, I've come to terms with not

everybody's the same. When you want to enjoy life's simpler pleasures, reach for Green River Whiskey, whether it's Rye Whiskey or Single Barrel Bourbon. You're getting over a century of craftsmanship packed into every bottle. Hop on over to Greenriverwiskey.com and discover a legend in a bottle today. I really do think, though, what you're seeing right now in the NBA I really like, and I know we don't have a super team, but it's becoming like the NFL. it's a very GM-driven league. Like, the smart GMs are going to win. A lot of them are in the West,

and they have been for 30 years. That's why the West is overwhelmingly top to bottom, always deeper than the East. You just have more good owners and more good GMs. And the other thing is, I think we've really seen this. There's a lot of maturity in the league right now. Like Indiana and Oklahoma City, I mean, these are grinding outfits. I mean, I think Indiana plays pretty good defense.

I mean, again, juxtaposition with OKC, juxtaposed to that. Well, it doesn't look the same. But there was a, in the second quarter in this game, I was like, God, Indy has given them problems. So I just, I think the league right now, it went through a cycle where it felt kind of, you had old stars and two young guys.

Like, you know, and you had these jaws and these zions. It's like they're just not ready. I just feel like we've got this group of Halliburton and SGA, and Jalen Williams, and it's just like really good Tatum, really good young players, totally dedicated to the league. And fewer and fewer old guys are relevant. And I think it's, I don't, it may not get ratings, but I'm, I really like O.K.C. And I really respect top to bottom both organizations. The point about maturity is, is a good one because these two teams are relatively young.

and young teams, young, young NBA teams famously don't play defense because young guys in general, it takes time for them to learn how to prioritize how they spend their energy. But yeah, I, you know, I'm generally pretty happy with the trajectory of the NBA. Every era in the NBA has some stars that are a little bit more boring. You know, like, for instance, to me, Shay, she's like the guard version of Tim Duncan. He's not the most exciting player in the world for me to watch, but he's incredibly dominant at his position. but we do have musty television.

I think Wemby is musty television. I think Anthony Edwards is musty television. There are certain guys in this league that bring the pop. And so we just need to take some time over the next couple of years for the public to kind of ingratiate themselves with these guys. And I'm still a big believer in the NBA. There's stuff they need to clean up. There's certain things that can get better.

It's not perfect. I wish they'd shorten the season a little bit. But like, this has been a fun playoff run, Colin. I've really, really enjoyed it. And the Pacers have like reinvigorated my love of basketball in a real way just because of the, uh, just a super, super fun brand of basketball that they've played. I, I've really, really enjoyed it. But Colin, we really appreciate you giving us your time tonight, man. You bet. Um, uh, for all of you guys that are hanging out on the YouTube

stream, we are headed over to Playback when we're done. So Playback. Dot TV slash Hoops tonight. We'll take some callers and watch some film. Colin, it was good to see you, buddy, and we'll see you next time. All right, Josh. The volume. Hey, guys. It's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests. from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I compete. there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast

for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.