The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Open Mike - Dolphins’ Mike McDaniel on decrypting Tua’s brilliance, how to build Dolphins around QB

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Miami Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel joins his friend, Mike Silver at the NFL owners meeting in Phoenix, AZ and talks about landing his first NFL head coaching job, the process of evaluating Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa and the exact day he figured out how to build Miami’s roster around the young quarterback. He also discusses growing up with standup comedian and actor, Dan Soder, and how it helped his confidence for press conferences and speaking with players, what he learned during his first NFL job working under HC Mike Shanahan, coaching in Washington DC with Sean McVay and Matt LaFleur, Dolphins DC Vic Fangio’s influence on the team and why he takes him clothes shopping. #volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Joey Dardano. And on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions.

Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help From a Hypocrite,

the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hippocrite Wednesdays on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Well, we've done some unbelievable things on Open Mike, but one thing we have not done ever is been together. Right.

Me and the guests. We've Zoomed. We've been virtually together. I have Mike McDaniel here. We're in Arizona. Mike is changing the game. Literally, I think you guys made some rules today. and kind enough to join me here on open mic. Hello. I feel honored to be a part of the first real open mic. Right. For a real open mic to occur, I think we could agree that there needs to be two mics.

Correct. With two mics. Two mics with two mics. And we are very open. Very open. We're open to all sorts of things. Including a discussion about all things. all things football.

But I actually want to start with a different sport because when you walked in, I was setting up and you ended up having a phone conversation with an old friend of mine. Yes. And two of my favorite coaches talk and shop. And why don't you tell me or recap for me what you asked my friend Steve Kerr to do for you?

So as I understand it, this is to let all the viewership know the type of contacts that you have and who you talk to. Yes, it's a name, it's a name dropy thing. Yes. Steve Kerr was on the phone. Correct. Which I fanboid out to.

And, you know, got on the phone, babble, my heart was racing. I was babbling all sorts of complimentary things, which he took in stride, told me he could teach me how to shoot like Steph, which I'm excited about. So I guess I'm here to disclose the possibility of a career change. You know, so, you know, Steve and I grew up together in L.A. I was like the only warrior fan at our school because I was born in San Francisco, Niner Warriors, you know. I used to get clowned by him and everyone else.

Wait, wait, wait. So he took your fandom, shamed you in the present, and then made it his objective. to be the head coach of? I prefer to look at it this way. I win. Like he was like, oh, warriors, whatever. I think, you know, that's why I go to victory parties on the road after championship shamelessly and all that.

So I would say this. You know, you brag about your friends. I will say that he did retire, not only as a five-time NBA champion, but with the highest three-point percentage in NBA history, he still has it. Right. He also was second to Will Chamberlain, believe it or not, because he and I were texting about this.

Will Chamberlain played the most games in NBA history without fouling out. Steve Kerr retired as the second before being passed by Jamal Crawford, I believe. So he's measured competitively for the motives of the team. Well, what he said is I average 14 minutes a game, so that really helped. So when you're not on the court, you're not fouling. Correct. You miss 100% of the fouls. You can't.

I'm better at not fouling than he is, though. You, zero foul. Well, you have, you've caused a stir a time or two. And so I should, you know, for you viewers, Mike and I have known each other a long, long time. I was kind of like poking my head in Cleveland and Atlanta into coaches. offices and locker rooms. I felt uncomfortable. Yeah, asking questions like, how did you guys like totally mind-eff that team?

Right. And then we worked on your voice and your delivery of words. Correct. And then you stopped talking like that. Yeah, and then I went on television and just decided to talk like myself. And here I am on a podcast, you know. Discovering yourself. Incredible.

So we've known each other a long, long time. And I, you know, I was so excited when, you know, I was so excited when, you know, I was, you You started getting noticed and ended up becoming someone who could interview for a head coaching job. Oh, yeah. You knew me well before. So you've seen. Yes. You, I remember vividly there was a combine experience.

And we were at the Asian cuisine. What was it? P.F. Chang's. And, you know, I met Brianheimerdinger there and he was eating with you. And I remember vividly you going, who is this guy? Yeah. Right? But then...

Because literally the first thing you said after saying hi, I'm Mike, the waitress came and you asked some insane esoteric existential question about the tea or something. And you know, you were working on material. It was, I didn't know you well. But I was just kind of looking at, you know, Kevin Murphy and Brian Ibringer going, like, what is happening? And they had, you know, they had done you justice. They're like, look, you got to meet McDee.

He's, you know, you know how Kyle's a genius, Kyle Shanahan. Mike is also, like, especially with the run game, he's doing stuff that is, you know, way next level and blah, blah, blah. Which is why I pay those people to say that. Exactly. And but then I also remember the very next day, because that night I think we ended up out as one does at the combine until three, four in the morning. had this crazy time at Prime, the infamous Combine Haunt. And the next day I saw you and I go, dude,

that was awesome, man, we party. That was so great. And you were like, oh, I don't drink because you had, in fact, stopped drinking. And I kind of just looked at you. I get that a lot. And you said to me, that is a skill that I could make you, you know,

assume that I was partying with you when in fact I was drinking Red Bull. Or one could call it a person. personality flaw that people can't diagnose between sobriety and under the influence. Or, you know, in a serious related question to me being sober, it was a, the combine was a very practical application of something that I had to solve because one of the things that, you know, the anxieties of stopping drinking is that now all of a sudden you're going to be become a social hindrance, you know?

So combine time and stuff, I, when I stopped drinking, I didn't want the, that to limit my ability to interact or be really a social weight. So when you told me that, I was like, Yeah, and so for people that don't know, the combine is basically spring break for coaches and talent evaluators. You know, you, you became,

head coach your very first interview we've joked with your now partner in crime general manager chris greer known for just being an abusive you know rancid personality across the land but uh we've joked about how i called chris greer uh to kind of check it on the coaching search i love that story and i and so this is a true story i can't go the story the way you told it to chris yeah and so chris was like he was very aware of all that's well because so what happened was i was i was i I remember I was driving and I was down like in Oakland, I think, and I was driving it. And, you know, we kind of checked in and I said, hey, you guys are running a great search. And this was sincere.

I said, you know, Brian Dayball, I go, look, dude, I mean, how can you not be amazed by what he's done with Josh Allen? I don't think he's trying to be Bill. Belichick, I think he's his own guy. Went on and on about Dayball. And then we got to Vance Joseph. And I sincerely was like, I love Vijay. He's good energy in the building. He's so smart.

You know, he's going to be a great head coach to the second. time around and then I kind of go oh yeah and Mike and then by the time I got done talking about you Chris goes pause so you basically just called to try to stick up for Mike and you couched it as and I was like okay I'm busted sorry I mean Chris Greer has a uncanny ability to read yeah people yeah that's scouting he sniffed you out but at the same time he appreciated the And I appreciate it, as you tell it, you know, what you thought was like super camouflage and covert. Yeah, I don't think I did well. But the one thing I really felt like I wanted to convey to him, because he obviously met you and understood a lot about your credentials.

But I just, you know, Chris is a very nice guy. And there have been some discord in the building. And I just, you know, one thing I've always thought about you, because most coaches are crazy in very, in different ways. but you see the good in players, and I want to get into this, but I've talked to you for so long about this player or that player, and a lot of coaches fall back to like, he drives me crazy, does this, and you see the positive, like, as your fallback. And so I just thought, like, that positivity,

if nothing else, was going to be something that should be accentuated when he was talking about you. So you get the job, and I'm like, you know, I was torn because I was really happy for you in psych, but I was like, ah, now I have to share them with the world. And I remember your first, I remember the first time Kyle let you do a press conference as the offensive coordinator. And it was on Zoom. It was during COVID.

And you're like, hey, you should watch, you know. And so I watched. And I text to you afterwards. And I'm like, you know, how did it go? And you're like, I don't know. It was on Zoom. And I'm like, did anyone get the joke? And you're like, I don't think anyone got it.

No, but that's been the story of my life for whatever reason. you know, searching for that one laugh. Maybe, you know, when I was five or something, maybe it took me a while to get that one laugh. But sent for as long as I can remember, it didn't matter about the majority. It was about just getting one person to think something was humorous.

And I thought, and over time you start to like the jokes that don't hit, with most of the people, but then get your little, your little sect, you know, the little audience that actually understands. The faithful, the faith, right. Well, you know, one thing that I really appreciate, because I have the same horrible sensibilities, is you will beat a joke into the ground shamelessly. Absolutely. So we all saw the Mike Jones. There's a journalist named Mike Jones, very good journalist, and when he would ask a question to you, you would. Well, that, I guess people could, that was the first time that something that I said in jest kind of went viral.

Right. And that specific one, you have to understand in the context of the way it was distributed. This was Zoom. And a Zoom interview is pretty weird when it's, you have multiple interviewers because it's active speaker. So you don't know what's coming. And that particular instance, I hadn't seen Mike Jones. since the days in 2013, probably in Washington. So his face appeared, and it was the first thing I thought of.

And so he started asking a question, I interrupted. And I said, who? Mike Jones. So I see, I love the pause. The pause. That's everything. It's a hip-hop reference that, you know, some people were able to immediately grasp.

We're like, what's funny about this? His name's Mike Jones. So that was right at my wheelhouse. Yes. You just find a small sect. But I feel like Mike Jones got it. Oh, he got it. Yes.

You know, because it is his name. Right. In fact, he would be a third bike if we had him on open mic right now. I guess the whole cortex of the world is being flipped because we're on open mic with two mics, talking into two mics talking about a mic. And since we're talking, since we're on the topic of mics, so I grew up with Steve Kerr, which I've flaunted now, shamelessly. I planted the phone call as you walked in. You grew up with a comedian, literally.

So tell me about you and Dan Soder growing up. That's great. So Dan Soder and I were, we became best friends in seventh grade. And we were both, you know, kind of awkward, oversized head to body ratio. That changed. It did. And then, but we were, we wanted to get involved in the cool kids. And, you know, we had aspirations of middle school popularity like everyone does.

And we had a little sect of friends that was kind of like at that time, it was like, like a skateboarding crew. This is in Colorado? In Colorado? Still in Greeley or down in Denver? No. This is in Laredo Middle School. Okay.

And, um, in, uh, what was unincorporated Rapo County now Centennial. Okay. And, uh, what was interesting about it was, you know, in middle school, uh, to be cool is a little two 25 action are we talking? Oh yeah. Okay. Oh, you 225 exit. Yeah.

the road there you go south yeah you could go on Quincy or Orchard whatever okay um I like and then uh but we we weren't cool enough to be cool in middle school because in cool and middle school you had to be smoking marble reds you had to be well girls had to be interested in you yeah that that killed me we we we didn't we weren't ready for marble reds um and girls weren't that interested in us so we got picked on our little crew um um of friends that were the cool kids, but we were the bottom feeders of the cool kids. And we, on days where we had a ton of unrest

of people just poking at us, we'd be like, you know, one day, you're gonna be a stand-up comedian, I'm gonna be a head coach, and then they'll laugh. And we used to say that, we used to say that stuff. You spoke it into existence. We were both those random quirky kids that had their career, set out at like five years old.

And he literally became an actor and a stand-up comedian. Oh, yeah. Well, he did it the half-luny way where he went, he went to the University of Arizona. He did open mics in Tucson, which, okay, and then he graduates and he moved to New York City. And did it the grab, you know, the don't skip a step. you know work as a waiter serve people so that you can go on these free spots and develop your craft wow you know it's it was the coolest process it's probably a lot like you know training receiver

coaches for kyle shadd had over the off season yeah but he was you want to talk about something entertaining you have a you have a young adult trying to figure out who he is who's who's passionate about comedy he I remember we took a spring break in high school as seniors we drove to and one of those astro minivans nice Arizona or something and it he had this tape of this guy named Dave Chappelle right what year is this 99 whoa 99 was no it was 2000 because it was junior year wasn't senior year now I think of it bad and And he could, and he was like exposing this whole group of friends

and this hilarious Dave Chappelle character. But then he had this unique way, like memorizing a song, where we'd be at the end of the night, you know, maybe it was on that trip, maybe it wasn't a bunch of, you know, guys staying at one house. We just probably went to a house party somewhere because somebody's parents were out of town. We'd go back and then,

he would be able to go, he'd be able to do stand-up routines from other people that we hadn't heard. Whoa. And we'd be like, pissing ourselves. That's crazy. So. And then that morphed into, okay, well, in high school, parents aren't always out of town, so you can't have these parties on the weekends. You're trying to find stuff to do. Oh, let's go to Soder's garage.

And then he would be, we'd be. It's like a garage band. And then he would just be going, he'd get into these grooves and just be rattling off the stuff. So he was getting training. Marlboro was involved yet or was that? I think, you know, what's it called where you can't get in trouble for statute of limitations? Right. I think it passed.

Yeah. So they're probably, I bet there was. Yeah. I never jumped onto that train. Yeah. For whatever reason. But yeah, there was that. There was some, you know, if we could.

find the right adult, maybe some alcohol purchase. Yeah. That type of stuff. Yeah. But we'd be hanging out in there. He would just be unleashing this, and that's where, to me, when I talked to him, that's where he got that drive on top of the, like,

oh, I think this is what I want to do. Oh, no. This is what I need to do. And it's been unbelievable to watch him progress to points of, yeah, he's on billions. That's what people know. But he has special. He has HBO special.

Like just like back at the garage. Yeah. No, Chris Rock has HBO special. Right. You have an HBO special? You're like, it's been really cool to watch. This is an important question. Has he evaluated your, especially since he became a head coach or more high profile?

Has he evaluated any of your, you know, delivery lines, you know? No, because he's a good human that doesn't want to completely blow up myself. Kind of like Kerr doesn't evaluate me. My jump shot? Yeah, right. He allows me to feel as though I could potentially be funny, which I think is a gift that only a true friend could give. Well, I feel like if he needed someone to introduce him,

like let's say, and you just with very little prep, just walked out there with a very dry sense of humor that you typically display, I kind of feel like you could kill. Oh, no. Well, so for me, I'm just a different, like, I can't even venture. to, to, when I look at stand-up comedians, to hold the audience through the transitions, to continue to tell the story and to do that for a set, which is, it blows my mind. Yeah.

Probably in practice with soda in the garage, I realize, okay, well, you know, maybe I'm not a stand-up comedian, but a surprise element of randomity and humor, I can always hit with that. So I'm more of like a surprise attack. Hey, this is funny. Oh, you laughed. Now I'm going to leave the room. Yeah. Yeah, right. Leave on a high note. Right. Okay. So you come to Miami, you get the job. Went one for one. First interview at first head coaching interview. And we've talked about this. The environment has changed. There was a time where someone like you would have been stigmatized. I don't know if stigmatized is the word, but you weren't, your profile wouldn't have been the classic he's going to be a head coach profile time i mean we're right in those times

people are still adjusting um to can do people really listen to this guy no it was it's it's real and um you know i i had obsessed about being a head coach for so long and then i kind of got beaten down um in terms of like there was guys surpassing me and i was like And then a convalence of working with Dan Quinn and there's a group by the name of a Vision Pursue led by Russ Rausch that kind of like, no, no, no. Ironically, the best way for things to progress is for you to stop worrying about that and just worry about your job. Just go do your job. And so then I started doing that. And I don't with no with no ulterior of motives of like, hey, I want to get a, I let go of being a head coach thinking that if I'm a master of this stuff, you know, will happen.

But I truly didn't look at it like, okay, there's these jobs. Let me prepare. And, you know, with the success that the people that have worked, with in the system and and the stuff that um kyle was allowing me to do and that having success and kind of having you know this was a homegrown like people people such as yourself but then coaches and stuff they'd known about me for a long time and known me as a worker um and i don't know if you felt bad for me but i feel like you and a lot of people like were like come on you can do it yeah i i just felt more like, well, you'd been through some stuff and we could get into that, but you know, you alluded to you, you changed your lifestyle, no drinking and all that. And you kind of, you know, as you put it to me, you went full M&M and A mile and decided, I'm going to own that.

So what's tricky is then you get the opportunity, you get, oh, hey, this team wants to interview you. Well, I just spent a lot of time not worrying about the interview. So then all of a sudden, and it's during the playoff run, you're like, okay. And I didn't have time to really overthink the whole thing. And I had one opportunity. And I was very, very, I was looking at it like this. From a historical perspective, a guy gets an interview, okay, now you got a real shot the next cycle. Right, right, right.

And then, so that's the way I was approaching it. And then I did an interview over Zoom, and they asked me for a second one. And I got feet on the ground into Miami. With your giant AirPods. Giant AirPods. No, this was, yes, this was giant AirPods. Oh, no, maybe that was after you got. Oh, yeah, that was.

No, because I was wearing them. But what you're referencing is when I had the job, but at the same airport. Yeah, you got out of the plane. And your AirPods were not the tight little ones like that I wear usually on the show. There was motivation behind that. I wanted to be known as the AirPods. God. Did you did Apple call you like that would have been a net right because they got it for free. They're like we yeah. Exploitation and it's fine. It really it really is. So that I'm not really

thinking that way and then I get feet on the ground and I meet the people in the building and Chris Greer's giving me a tour and I had a bunch of background information from people that had worked for the Miami Dolphins. A lot of coaches have come through and I'm realizing live speed that I'm like this is the this is everything I've ever wanted you know I've been in six different organizations at the time and I'm recognizing

like this place has all the utility and just needs a head coach to fit within you know people don't understand a lot goes into a football team and you have to have synergy from coaching staff and players

but you also all the support staff and those are the ones that deal with players every day that you know I've been in organizations where they have been a huge root of a problem whether it's training staff whether it's

equipment whether equipment whether it's the person all this stuff and I'm like this is well this is perfect so now I'm like oh I can't mess this up you know now you're nervous

It wasn't nervous. It was like hyper-focused. Like, okay, you just worked 39 years. You got about eight hours, dude. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand-new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, This is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out,

help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself.

And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary.

Oh, cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream, cream a chicken suit. This is help for me. Hippocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flanks. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you get it. And we talked about you're very positive when it comes to players. You've got a quarterback to a Tunga Vailoa who has basically been consigned by not just outsiders,

most of the NFL as shouldn't have drafted them. Not good. Got to move on and get better. Tell me the process of how you kind of evaluated to it and, and, you know, helped Tima said. This is cool because there's a, this is two-pronged, and there's a specific moment that I think we can, we can detail that's, it was really cool.

Nice. But for context, like, When I first started assessing the situation, you have the fifth pick in the draft and all the things that were involved in his experience thus far in the NFL. I found it was hard for me to not look at him and think of my experience. And in my experience in the world, shoot, I'm a head coach now, and I know where I came from. And I know, like, how do I even have a chance to have this over, to even fulfill this overly ambitious vision or drive or dream that I had? And I knew I had no chance had I had not been built up by my mom that, you know what, you can do, you can do anything. You are the smartest, whatever, everything, you know, a single mom would tell a child.

Yeah. I know at a young age, I gravitated to that, that gave me the confidence that we all have those moments where it's like, okay, I don't know what's going to happen. And so do you go into those moments of uncertainty with faith that you're going to get it done? or, you know, anxiety or apprehension that you're going to fail. And I had gone through all those moments with just vigor and fearlessness because of how I've been built up. So I saw Tua like that, like, how can we even approach the idea of we know what this player is when, I don't know, from my vantage point, who does this guy have that

believes in him? so we have to start with um he has to know that someone's 100% in his corner which i see is that's what a coach is um and that no dude you can do it so i had to convince him that i believed in him so he could so then he can in turn allow himself you know because i've been through it sure and i saw that And then there was a particular moment that set everything off. And it was in early March or something we're going through free agency. And in that free agent process, we're meeting with all the scouts and coaches in a room. And we're discussing all sorts of things about, okay, well, we need to do this, that or the other

and all the different directions you can go in free agency to build your team. And I knew in my mind that Tua needed skill position players that were dynamic with the ball in their hands because I saw him as, you know, this dude is a point guard, right? He has a guess that way. And then some of the people in the personnel were like, you know what? No, we need to spend money on offensive linemen. and I could feel that I knew that I disagreed with it. But I hate the, hey, everyone, no, because I said so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, okay, cool, taking the information, let me go back to the office. Go back to the office, and I cut on the tape. And so I'm cutting on the tape to build the tape to explain to the entire coaching staff and to start the conversation from my lens so we can get to where we need to go. And I'm watching different skill positions and then as I progress through the tape,

I start to notice this trend. And it's like, wow, that's like the seventh different outbreak that I've watched to a throw to the field. And just for a quick, explanation or a quick explanation of that is an outbreak to the field is I see once or twice from a particular quarterback on a season because the receiver is running away from you, meaning the ball's in the air longer, which is a higher risk for defenders to make up that ground, undercut, and pick six for a catastrophic turnover.

This is a high risk throw that the quarterbacks are very nervous to make. And he's doing it. And so show the receiver is going. So like let's say the ball is on the left hash. Okay. We're going that way. Yeah. The ball's in the left hash.

So the receiver from where the ball snapped, the receiver on the right is running an out route. Oh, got it. To the field. To the field. Right. So it would be on the right to the field. And he would make pinpoint throws that are. down the field 10-yard throws, but are literally 40-yard throws.

And I'm like... And fearlessly. And so then what started as an explanation of like how guys needed to be more open for Tua turned into this Marvel session that started at about 6.30 p.m. And then I just start watching until midnight on a random weekday in the offseason. and end up compiling this thing where I'm like, I thought I knew. I didn't even know what we're sitting on.

And so I'm like freaking out, and I'm like, I'm sitting on this. I know for a fact from this night of study that this is the best quarterback for our offense that I've ever come, that I've had a chance to coach. Whoa. And I'm like, freaking out. Right? So then I call, um, I call Ann Nolan. I had a PR.

And I'm like, just write this date down. This is crazy. Okay. Get off the phone with her. Call Chris Greer. I'm like, this is midnight. I'm like, dude, I just got to tell you, I've gone through like 700 different passes from 700. 700 passes.

And I, I, I. I cannot believe what I'm seeing. This guy is doing stuff that I just haven't focused all my attention on this quite yet. And we are sitting on a gold mine. We need to do everything. Everything we do moving forward should be skill position players that have the ability to do stuff with the ball in their hands. Because this guy, if they're open, he'll get it to him. And, you know, and this is something that we've done in San Francisco.

I can see the vision where we have run after the Ketchiak guys. Right. And then. Now you got to tell Tua. But I'm not even there yet. Then I go home. It's probably 1 a.m. I can't even sleep.

I come back at three, refine the tape and come up with, I need to show the whole organization, this tape today. Whoa. I'm going to wait for Chris to wake up. He wakes up at calm. Like, dude, sorry. this is but we need to have can we have a staff meeting at 8 a.m. when are the scouts going to be in? Okay we're going to have and we're going to have everybody in there and I just need to show this tape. I have to get this off my chest and he's like cool and then we get the whole staff together

and I just run through 150 clips in a row to kind of explain okay this is this is the offense that he played within these are some of the things he's capable of and a historical perspective on offenses and and what we what our offense is able to do if we have this type of player with some San Francisco stuff and all and it was like this and from that meeting on meeting ends everyone kind of loosely discusses that afternoon we have these analytic charts of the the people in free agency that have the best ability to separate and have most yak stuff. And the whole organization saw it.

And we just moved in the direction to, all right, we're empowering Tua, let's go. And called Tua in, showed him the same tape. You know, anybody, anybody that was willing to listen, I was making sure they knew because I wanted everyone on the same page. When Tua saw it, how was he? He was, it was interesting because it was like that, um, it was like the most extreme case of a person not knowing how to take a compliment. He was, you could tell he was not used to, um, anything but overly constructive negativity.

So he didn't know how to take it. Did he almost not believe you? No, he was like, it just, it was a slow momentum building meeting that probably clips 75. he starts he starts participating like he's reading the room like this isn't a trick right this isn't a setup and he's like i can feel him get up in his chair and then i'm making the the pitch of okay well dude you're doing all this incredible stuff and in my estimation people aren't open enough this is what it should look like showed him so and he gets fired and then by the end of you just you start you playmakers yeah you start you did you put on nine or did you go all the way back or yeah it was it was

intercut with some nine or clips and things to kind of help him you know i'm thinking about that to me um one of the things that i do that's that's a staple that i learned from i think john gruden taught to kyle shanahan um and it's something that from kyle's tree we all have a little bit our own element And I've made tapes for Kyle for years. And the whole idea is telling a story and carrying a narrative through video to tell your story. So you have more factual, real backbone to your argument. Which translates to a Saturday night meeting with the players where you said this is what we're going to do. These are all the same kind of like skill set or whatever.

And that whole process helped him understand, okay, why am I showing this to you? What this means, why you can trust me in my assessment and where we're moving forward and what he needs to focus on, kind of streamlined. And it was the first building block. And then that on top of practice. this tape and following suit once we got on the practice field, you could see a guy viscerly in front of you. Like, well, maybe I am good.

And by the way, here's Tyree Kill, your new target. And then, so I did the same thing with Tyree Kill, showed him the same tape. And it was one of those that, you know, I was only going this direction if I was without a doubt positive in what I was saying. I was going to ruin my credibility with an organization or Tyree kill or anything.

Yeah. Showed him that. And then immediately, Tyreeks like, oh, yeah, totally. He started telling the world kind of. And then he hits the, which was cool. It wasn't the exact way that I, but it was also semi-genious to Tyreek because, like, you know, this, everyone's talking about Tua, is he this, that, or the other. And then you have this one of one guy come out.

be like, no, this dude is the deal. Yeah, he's like, say, I like, you know, he's more accurate than Patrick Mahoney's. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right. And it was, and, but regardless, that was just, it was something that I think, um, it was a necessary process for the situation that, you know, I kind of felt, I fell into. but was so gratifying because you could watch, you know, I had this philosophy, philosophy of positivity and maximizing people, getting the most out of them.

Yeah. Not saying what they are, okay, whatever. We're in the business of maximizing talent. So if that's the case, why am I talking about all this stuff they can't do? Let's establish what they can do. And let's say, let's raise people's ceilings in their expectations of themselves. You know, well, holy cow, I've had this belief forever.

I talked to the guys that were interviewing me that ultimately hired me about it. And then boom, immediately, here I get to express it and then watch it. Oh, yeah, few. I was right. Yeah, right. And was it about week three where you were like, okay, I think I can exhale on that? No, you know, what was really funny is I felt like I was sitting on a secret forever.

And the relief part was probably right around when we were doing inner squad scrimaging. And it was, we were able to, he was able to execute some of the things that he was doing against our own defense against another opponent. And so there was the relief. And by the regular season, it was like, finally we get to unveil the secret that I feel like I've been sitting on forever, which is like, it didn't take long. I think it was week two, where, you know, we were down by several touchdowns, and we had a 21-point comeback. Oh, the Phillips.

Yeah. Against Baltimore. And that's when people started, or they kind of stopped the Mike McDaniel's crazy to it. They started to listen, which was really cool to be a part. for the player specifically because you're like all right dude people will see eventually and then it happens and they do and he can feel that and then watching how I mean it was amazing how much growth that human being had in the calendar year more so than anything I've ever seen my life that's wild you know so the first person who really gave you a

chance, Mike Shanahan, who I covered a ton in the 90s, know very, very well, and it should be a Hall of Famer hopefully very soon. I mean, it's kind of silly, but Mike Shanahan in the 90s, and you know your Broncos better than anyone, you know,

he won those Super Bowls and had that incredible team with Ed McCaffrey, who was a late draft pick, Ann Rod Smith, who was an undrafted free agent, and they blocked, they were great players. No, no, it was a big deal. And it was against the green from an NFL perspective because he did that.

And he had a high-price-free agent. I think it was he let go of, I want to say, Mike Pritchard and Ashley or Anthony. Ashley Lee. I was Anthony Miller. Yeah, Anthony Miller. Mike Pritchard and had these no names. Yeah. You know, Rod Smith had like, this is an undrafted former quarterback that kind of looked,

looked different. And Ed McCaffrey, who was on his second. Third team, yeah. Third team. And they would block. And they would do. And yak. Yeah.

And it was a bold move for, you know, a team. that was Mike Shannon was being hired because, you know, the city of Denver wanted, you know, they had those on the heels of the L.A. Super Bowl losses. Right. And you had a ticking, you had a ticking lifespan for their starting Hall of Fame quarterback that was the biggest thing that's ever happened to the entire city or state. Right. So the urgency was now. And to do that was And so, you know, as well versed as I've been on the Shanahan way and obviously watching Kyle from Houston on, just, you know, innovate and light it up. But I've always had this way of explaining first Mike and then Kyle, which is informed by that, which is, yeah, you could get a star receiver, but you could find guys like Ed McCaffrey and Rod Smith who the world doesn't think of as stars and be really, really good. thus I'm not going to be like everyone else who freaks out and over extends to get wide receivers.

But, you know, Tyreek makes me think of this. I feel like once you guys got around Julio in 2015, that maybe that changed your mentality a little bit. I think you bring up a good point. It set the brain. It set kind of an expectation of normalcy to to go against a trend so like it wasn't an absolute you know the takeaway wasn't oh you don't have to have star receivers it's that it's about a team and that can look a bunch of different ways and just because one team does it one way doesn't mean you have to do it and

And in that, they were able to get a couple receivers that blocked, which helped them facilitate a true run-pass conflict team, a team that could run or pass on first and second down and, you know, starting the beginning process of all the stuff that we do today. And no, the receiver, yeah, we both. I think all the people in the in the tree have definitely Not just said okay, you don't need to pay receivers quite the contrary right but it's a But I think that lesson manifests itself all over the place where it's We need a team and that can look many different ways and sometimes you don't need a first or second round draft to do things to get things done so then all of a sudden the running back stuff happens

where you're able to get production out of and then that becomes the thing but that to me that's still that's still a different application of something that Mike Shanahan showed us was you know Mike Shannon was fearless Mike Shanahan would just do whatever made sense at all costs

and before you know those are things he was doing before he won Super Bowl out of principle. And then he does that, and then it really shapes, shapes the way we think from a professional football roster assembly, and he sets forth the way we think for the next 20, 25 years, which is why it makes no sense to us, why he's not in the Hall of Fame.

You know, people will look back on 2012 in Washington, and you guys, you went to the playoffs. but didn't win beyond that. But, you know, something seismic was going on. And I, you know, you told me the story. You'd been in the UFL and then came back and you always tell the story of walking in and kind of hearing Sean McVeigh and Matt LaFleur

in these meetings. Oh, yeah. Kind of, you know, I don't know if it's annoying is the word, but just being guys who knew a lot. No, it was annoying for me. Right. Because I was like, I mean, these guys know a lot. It was more like...

And they're young. And they're young. And you could tell they were excited. I mean, they were just very passionate about everything they were doing. And so, you know, to have a third voice trying to contribute to the same area within these staff meetings, that would have been annoying. So it was annoying that I was out of social awareness. cut out of the conversation. So you have to find, to me it was obvious that these guys

are really good. Certain things, what is no one talking about? Okay, well then we get to the run game. We get offense blind play and Kyle's only talked to Chris first or so I was like, that guy, I want to know what he knows, which has got me started in the run game kind of on a different path. than the other guys. It was just a trial of survival and trying to find value. You know, I've known Vic Fangio for a long time.

Good friend of Chris Furster, as you know. He, you know, his persona at least, because I think there's a curmudgeon factor that he plays up, but he plays a guy who doesn't always gravitate to the positive what he's talking, not just about players about. whatever's going on. He's an incredible coach, as you know. You know, first of all, I want to know what excites you about having him as your defensive coordinator. But secondly, there was a report that he was coming to Miami and then Vic texted me and I think

one other person and was like, I haven't made any decisions yet. And then it took a few days before it was official. Did that cause any stress or did you have it under control? internally during that. So I guess I'll go the second question before the first. The yes and no, I was chasing a scenario. I thought the best thing I could possibly do for the football team would be I have a scenario where we could get the foremost expert in a,

a defensive scheme in-house and he would want to be here. So it was like under the guise of, all right, well, he wants to be here. So, and I was confident that I was confident in the roster that, you know, Chris Greer had worked for years to build. And I was, I, from all testes, of my understanding of who he was and all the relationships that I have with different people that have conveyed things to me about him. It seemed like it was a perfect fit between him and I and then what the team needed. And once that started as a thought and then I met with them and I was like, oh no, this is beyond thought, this is the right thing.

I was pretty confident that it would work out. And, you know, there's a bunch of different, you know, Vicksman in the league a long time. So, you know, there's certain things that he is the utmost liberty and should in terms of contract negotiation, all that stuff. For semantics, I could tell, I thought he could tell if it was perfect for all parties involved. So it was something that I was very confident. And since, holy cow, was I right. Whoa. All right.

Awesome. Yeah. Did you have to promise him like, you know, a specific pasta dish every Friday, like naming your boy, Vic, if you have a boy, like anything weird? He made me promise that, you know, that there'd be at least on a couple occasions during the year that I would take him shopping and help his wardrobe. That's amazing because I know your wardrobe and we've been talking a lot. He saw that in me.

Yeah. You know what? How can I dress like you? There's been. I get that a lot. And we've gone on and on and this has been incredible. So I want to keep you forever. We'll have many future conversations.

But let's talk about your wardrobe before we get out of here. There has been. They're just clothes, man. You, I, I, think you have an awareness that maybe there's some critiquing going on in our world and would you know and on the outside very much where yeah what's what's what's up with the word road look look at it like um I look at it like my my personality okay I I think I can be a bit of an extremist yeah and so when when um

You sit there and you recognize that, you know, that there is a certain level of honesty, authenticity, and transparency that's very desirable for professional athletes and just people in general with all the convoluted things that go on in the world. You know, I think for me it's been kind of non-negotiable to be myself. that so then people see that in my personality um well i fight like i don't stop that at my personality i've always kind of like um had uh an affinity for you know however like shoes of i've always kind of like um liked matching my clothes and that's always kind of been a part of me, whatever that style is.

And so even though I know I'm potentially putting a bull's eye on my back, knowing that anything that I do that is not par for the course is kind of doing that, I also don't give myself the option because for me to be in my house, in my closet and then being like oh you know yeah that's what I would wear

but they might say something about it no then I've just I've begun the slippery slope that is becoming something that isn't who I am so I I do I'm kind of oblivious to it you know some of the people that I work with

you know one time in Andy or indie I was getting ready to do an NFL deal and Chris Greer goes oh leather so then I was like oh that that stood out to him it's probably going to stand out to people

okay this might be a thing and then people are commenting on my but I just that was the night we all hung out and by the way I'm just going to go on a record that was dope like I would tell you if I didn't love that leather jacket it's fantastic but regardless if you did or didn't like I was like

you know, this is what I'd want to wear. You know, it's one of those weird, hard lines that you draw on the sand where it's just like, I'm going to be myself. This is part of me. It's whatever. If I ever feel like you need to pick me up or it's getting to you, I'm going to get a tape together, probably 700 different shots of you in clothes. Oh, man.

And we're going to, like you and Tua, we're going to sit down and start watching it. And you might not believe me at first, but I'm going to be like, build me up those zanya shoes with no socks you know that yeah that was you hit that right no and you know what uh you can see that people need that yeah people need affirmation um yeah can you leave us with like an open mic affirmation because we've done now 20 of these episodes and we've had incredible guests yeah but you know you always wonder like is this hitting we're here on the volume great network call okay so i have no idea how long this interview was that's a real compliment absolutely because it was

it was in fact six hours and 23 minutes right I've missed flights I've alienated my family same but wow during the process totally engaged vibrant and no I I went into this thinking this was gonna be an exhaustive chore yeah for sure that I wouldn't enjoy this back and forth totally labor some And you know what? Put a microphone in front of you. And you're something to work with, dude. This was awesome. God, that's just, you know, I'm going to leave these owners meetings feeling more excited than a player who's switching to Jersey number zero.

Official. Thank you for joining us. Can I speak into your mic, Mike, Mike? Mike out. Mike appreciated. Mike fulfilled. Mike desirable. And in fact, Mike Cleggie.

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Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw,

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