The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Patriots, Aaron Rodgers, Steelers, CFB rankings, & where colin was right & wrong

Episode Date: December 3, 2018

Colin discusses why the New England Patriots will win the AFC, the firing of Green Bay Packers HC Mike McCarthy, why QB Aaron Rodgers is difficult to work with, the problems with the Pittsburgh Steelers, the CFB rankings, and where he was right and wrong over the weekend. Guests include Michael Vick, Peter King, Joel Klatt, Greg Jennings, and Trent Dilfer. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching herd. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. This on a Monday is The Hurd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, it is great to have you enjoyed. Taylor is joining me on a Monday one hour from now where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. It's great to be here.

Morning. Good morning. By the way, I want to talk about the Packers in a second, put New England up first. I want to talk about this. I grew up in Seattle, the home of Starbucks. And I've known people throughout the years that worked at Starbucks, like a couple executives.

And, you know, one of the secrets to a great business, you can be in Seattle, you can be in Shanghai, you can be in Sakaka, Staten Island. It doesn't matter. They look the same. The coffee tastes the same. The service is the same. that's a good business.

It's not like you get a Starbucks coffee here. The bean is burnt and over there. Starbucks, like a good business, is consistent. I remember I moved 15 years ago to Connecticut. I didn't grow up a Patriot fan. And at this time, the Patriots weren't a dynasty. And I started watching New England games, every snap. And, you know, I was in that area with New England.

And the thing that was always remarkable to me about New England, and I've never seen anything in the NFL like it, it's the same team every week. I could take yesterday's video of that game against Minnesota, put it back 11 years ago. It looks the same. It's the same team. No penalties. They don't turn it over.

They never fumble. They're very good on third down. They generally have good pass protection, terrific situationally, and they win in Foxborough by about 10. And here we are in December 3rd, week 14, and I'm looking at the box score last night. The second leading wide receiver in the NFL, Adam Thielen. held a 28 yards. Mr. 100 yards, held a 28 yards. At one point, screaming at Bill Belichick because he was so upset. And here's New England averaging 9.7 yards a pass, seven yards of

play, seven for 14 on third down, and dominated time of possession. They took away Minnesota's great asset, Adam Thielen, got some out, he yelled at the coach, Bill Belichick. It's the same darn team. The only team in the NFL, you could literally tape the tape of yesterday's Vikings game, Viking Patriot game. Just take the tape of it. Eight years ago, looks the exact same. It's a Starbucks. It doesn't matter what city you go do. A well-run business is a replica of itself over and over and over. You don't want to go to a coffee shop or a burger joint where in one place it's sloppy in a mask, the other place it's pristine and clean. Yesterday was methodical and mundane and meticulous. It was New England. And here it is December 3rd. And I'm sitting to myself thinking,

Houston? Oh, you think they're going to go to Foxboro? They've never won in New England. Pittsburgh can't close out close games. Kansas said he's not the same team without Kareem Hunt and the L.A. Chargers? I mean, that was fun last night. Foxborough, 11 degrees. Trust them. That thing wasn't even in doubt last night. And here's the other thing that's amazing. We get caught up in stars. New England had nine guys catch a football. Nine. They had seven guys carry the ball. So they had 16 different people catch or carry the football. And I feel when I watched New England play is I grew up in a lot, my life, my childhood

was fine, but there was a little chaos. I once had a stepdad get into a fist fight with his brother on Thanksgiving. There was a lot of craziness and divorces in my life. And I've gone to therapists about it for years and years. I don't like a lot of chaos. I get up, I eat the same thing, work out the same time, go to bed the same time. I'm not a big drama guy, not a big fan of drama or dramatic people. and every NFL franchise to me feels like a version of Bitcoin.

I mean, even the good organizations like the Saints had a three-year drought. The Steelers have had years. They're just not, they can't get it together. Even the good organizations, the Packers now are a mess. And here is slow and methodical and meticulous, almost mundane New England. And by the way, let me just throw these out there because this morning I wake up and I look at the AFC and I think they're going to win the damn thing again. and England's going to win the AFC again.

Their drama off-season, nipped it in the bud. Here we go. Philip Rivers, 0 for 7 in his career against Brady. Ben, big Ben, 2 for 8. The franchise for the Texans, O for the franchise against him. Andrew Lucks, 0 for 6 against him. And Patrick Mahomes is 0 for 1.

I mean, there are teams and there are people in this league. The Steelers are certainly one of them, I'm almost addicted to drama. Every week there's a story. It's Bitcoin. Oh my God. Cam Newton, Aaron Rogers.

It's like they're addicted to drama. What is remarkable about New England, and I've never seen anything like it in my life in the National Football League. The consistency, it is the same team every year. It's not just Belichick. Didn't look like that in Cleveland with Belichick. It's not just Brady. Because they had it with Matt Castle.

They just weren't as good. It is a combination of both. Ownership, coach, quarterback, culture. It's absolutely remarkable. And I look up and down the AFC playoff picture right now, and I'm sorry, but I'm taking New England once again. I think the chiefs are going to stumble here down the stretch. Their schedule is brutal.

The Patriot schedule in their division is easier. But, I mean, I just don't have any drama. They got rid of it in the offseason. By October, here we're going to. we go. Here comes IBM and cleats. Here comes Google and a helmet. I mean, just the same thing. Incredible. Incredible. Let me shift gears to this. Mike McCarthy got fired yesterday. That's weird. It doesn't happen in Green Bay like that. That's pretty strange, right? Like Green Bay is one of those places they take care of their own. They take care of their players. If they have to dismiss somebody,

they often don't even fire them. They just move them to a different cubicle. This is kind of a classy, refined organization, small town takes care of their people, and they just pushed him out middle of the season, right? And by the way, this of course means all of Aaron Rogers' problems are solved, right? And it was all McCarthy. Okay, because they lost Arizona yesterday. That was all in McCarthy. It should be noted that Aaron now makes 33 million a year. None of the top six highest paid quarterbacks in the league currently lead their division. There's a reason because you can't afford other good players. Aaron's going to be the highest paid or second highest paid guy in this league for several years.

Breeze Ben Brady take pay cuts. Aaron is not. And so he's going to be forced to play with the younger, cheaper players. And Aaron Rogers does not like younger players. He's a highly cerebral guy who gets worn out from this rookie from, you know, Louisville or this rookie from you know, Washington State, he gets worn out. By the way, he's had two major injuries. And this is what I think is interesting.

That everybody's like, well, he just needs Sean McVeigh. He just needs Matt Nagy. He just needs the next young Sean Payton. Really? You think that a newbie is going to walk into Aaron Rogers, 36-year-old hot shot coordinator, first time head coach is going to walk into Aaron Rogers. And Aaron's like, oh, here, take my career.

Go ahead. Hey, it's your team, not mine. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the way it's going to work. This will always be Aaron's team. For nine years, all I've been hearing is Aaron can do no wrong. And we got the problem out of here now, Mike McCarthy. So we'll obviously go 15 and 1, 14 and 2.

But I'll tell you this. you look around the quarterbacks who are really hitting it right now. Gough, Mahomes, Watson, Luck, Breeze, Brady. All of them have very coachable personalities. All of them have an excellent relationship with somebody offensively. Deshawn and Bill O'Brien, Brady and Josh McDaniels, Gough and McVeigh, Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid, Drew Breeze and Sean Payton, Andrew Luck and Frank Wright, all have a very coachable, amenable personality.

All of them, all of them have an excellent offensive partner, and this is the rub. Aaron's never had that great offensive partner. Is anybody considered Aaron's not real coachable? And there's a reason all these years in the NFL, he's never had a great partner. he's never had a great partner. Like if it takes this long, you're 10 years into a career and you've never had the perfect partner, maybe it's you.

I mean, Goff found a partner immediately. And Drew Brees found a partner immediately. And boy, Tom Brady had multiple guys he worked with immediately. And Joe Montana had a guy immediately. And John Elway, by his second head coach, had a guy he worked with immediately. But folks, I know one thing. difficult people, the richer they get and the more famous they get, the more difficult they get.

Go ask Jimmy Johnson about Marino at the end. Go ask the guys Brad Childress who coached Farrv at the end. Go ask anybody who coached Jay Cutler at the end. Wealth and fame doesn't make difficult people easier to coach. if after 10 years, you've never had that relationship. That's almost like a guy in his late 40s who's not married. It's not everybody else. Maybe it's him.

So you can keep telling me all the issues are solved now with Aaron Rogers. And what I've said from day one about Aaron, I don't doubt for a second he's far of Marino-level talented. But he's difficult. he is difficult and the issues will not all be solved for this 35-year-old, twice-injured, highly expensive, doesn't want to work with newbies, legendary guy. They're not all going to be solved. I think he'll win a bunch.

I think it'll be interesting. I think he's a Hall of Famer. I say over and over, it's great to watch. But if you think everybody can solve now, come back in a couple years. It's not. That division's never been tougher. All right. Coming up, you know, I picked the Steelers to win the Super Bowl. And Joyce from Pittsburgh. I did. I picked them as well.

Yeah. It's not the losses, but there is something happening right now with Pittsburgh, and I think it's going to bite them in the butt. And I think it's the reason this morning I don't think they're winning the Super Bowl. And it's not just losing a game. All Steelers games are close. That's coming up. Guys, it's the herd. This holiday season is you rack your brain for the perfect gift. I got tips for treating yourself and everybody on your list, mind-blowing comfort. Tommy John, the revolutionary clothing company that's redefining comfort.

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So that Chargers game last night, that Steelers' Chargers game was Crazy Town. But ask yourself, when's the last boring game the Steelers played? It was week eight. Yesterday was a great example of the difference between the Patriots and the Steelers. The Patriots were playing a game that was Fox's game of the week. It's Brady. It's Minnesota. The World.

talking about it. It was almost boring. The Steelers game against the Chargers, Steelers are favorite, and for the third straight week, Jacksonville, Denver Chargers. It's crazy town at the end of the games. They've had one kind of mundane

performance since week eight. No team in the NFL empties the tank emotionally every week like Pittsburgh. Every week. And I don't think you can do this. I don't think you can play at this level of drama every week.

The Golden State Warriors have a lot of drama, but they are so separated from the rest of their sport. In the NFL, it's inches not feet. But think about teams this year that have been really dramatic. Green Bay and Jacksonville in the tank. Philadelphia, Oakland, in the tank. Pittsburgh has so much talent, they can overcome a lot of the fireworks and theatrics.

but I think it's going to wear them out. Two teams in the NFL this year had some real drama in June, the Seahawks and the Patriots. Pete Carroll got it out of the room. Belichick figured out a way to soften it, and both are great. Patriots, Seattle, humming. You ever watch those shows,

Real Housewives of Orange County, real Housewives of New Jersey, real housewives. You ever seen those shows? and they're flipping tables at lunch. Like, you ever notice for those shows? Like three women go out for lunch in New York, and they're throwing champagne glasses at each other and flipping tables.

And you're like, it's 1145 on a Tuesday. What's happening here? You ever notice for those shows, all the divorces on those shows? I mean, I know I live in a country now that's outraged about everything. Every 15 minutes, there's an outrage, but it wears on you. And I just think Pittsburgh, every game is close. Every game is tight. I just don't think this is last.

I picked them to win the Super Bowl, and I'm watching them yesterday. Could they have a week where a game is over with eight to go? Could they have a week when the last play of the game is in everything? I think it's going to wear them out. And you look at the mundane, meticulous nature of their rival, New England, which had all sorts of drama and got rid of it. And then we all thought Labian Bell was the problem. and he's out of town, there's more drama.

The games are crazier. Mike Tomlin talked about it after the game. I mean, even officiating, here's Mike Tomlin. We didn't establish rhythm in the beginning of the second half. We had a couple of drives killed by penalties, holding penalties. It's catastrophic. You know, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. I'm going to do that because I sent enough money to New York.

I mean, the end of the game, offsides, off sides, off sides. And Mike Tomlin doesn't want to talk. It should be noted. The Steelers, Joey, still play, arguably the best team in the NFC on the schedule, The Saints, and the best team arguably in the AFC, the Patriots. How much drama? How many wild finishes can a team deal with? I mean, the thing about the Rams, you're watching the Rams this year,

And most of their games are sealed with about eight minutes to go. It's a nice flight back. You don't hear a lot from them. At some point, this has to put, you can't empty the tank emotionally every Sunday. Well, the way that they play, and the way they play the Raiders and the Bengals game could go either way anyway. They're going to make it interesting or they're going to make it dramatic. They came into the season loud. This is who they are this year.

Wow. In most years, actually. Crazy. Joy Taylor with the news. No. No. Turn on the news. This is the her.

line news. So, the Packers entered yesterday's game against the Cardinals as double-digit favorites. Instead, they came away with the 20 to 17 loss. And obviously, Mike McCarthy was fired shortly after. Now, offensive coordinator Joe Philbin will step in as the interim coach. And it's no secret, at least now, that Aaron Rogers and McCarthy were not on the same page. But former Packer, Mark Chimera, believes to blame on Aaron should be even more weighed. Aaron's not going to come out of this looking good.

Aaron might be happy. but Aaron, to me, looks like the prima donna basketball player in the NBA that wants his coach fired. And there were rumblings last week because I listened to a lot of the national media that were saying that Aaron Rogers is difficult to coach, whether that's because he's smart or whatever the case may be. He's not going to come out of this looking. He may be happy, but I don't think he comes out of this looking good. He got his coach fired. Mark Shemar, a former Packer, by the way, I think he's right here. I don't think it's a good, I mean, I said this last week, Joy, for the first time,

time in Aaron's career, I drove into work last week and I listened to local and national shows. And for the first time last week, all week, it was like, yeah, Aaron's 50% of this mess. And that, he was the golden boy, our entire sports casting career. Oh, yeah. He's been the golden boy. Untouchable. He's better than Tom Brady. But those, the gloves are off here. I think a lot of people are coming to an opinion, which I had four years ago and it was called a hot take, which is, I thought this thing was done after the buff. Remember the Buffalo game? When they played Buffalo and they looked like garbage and, you know,

Aaron came out and just said, hey, I don't do the game plans, man. The coaches do the game plans. It's like, okay, you do the game plans too. Like this thing has been simmering for two months. Well, I don't necessarily agree with everyone that Mike McCarthy was untouchable because he's gotten them to so many playoffs and won so many playoff games and won a Super Bowl. Like at one point or another, sometimes the rhetoric wears old.

And sometimes the voice just becomes stale. And that's not, that doesn't mean that Mike McCarthy isn't a great coach. Right. Who will get another job. Yeah. And we'll be successful there. But sometimes it just, the relationship wears thin. And look, at the end of the day, you have to pay Aaron Rogers.

You can't get rid of Aaron Rogers. So in those situations where something's got to give, the one who can give is going to give. And that's what it is. It's not necessarily all Mike McCarthy's fault. What the problem with Aaron Rogers is now, it's on you. bro, because everybody knows that this happened because of you. You're the one that has the power here. You're the one that has to say... Once LeBron

ran David Blatt out... Oh, no, he had to win a championship. With Tyloo. Right. Like, we're... Okay, it's like, okay, Blatt had a winning record. You ran him out. Now LeBron, you've got to make this thing work. You can't keep blaming the coach. Right. Exactly. At one point or another, it has to be you. And now all the pressure is on Aaron Rogers. Whoever

they bring in, it doesn't matter whether they're progressive or they're not. You have to win now, because this was your... This was on you. So, Lamar... Lamar Jackson's development in the NFL as a passer. He's a work in progress. He completed 12 of 21 passes for 125 yards against the Falcons, but obviously he did a lot of running too. He carried the ball 17 times for 75 yards and a touchdown. And after the game, John Harbaugh was asked if Jackson had done enough to remain the Ravens starter. Done enough, sure. Oh, absolutely. He's done

enough. I mean, he's played great. He's 3 and 0. He's played well. You know, what way we'll go, what direction we'll go, we'll see. There will be no quarterback controversy in our locker. Our guys want to win. They know all three guys can win. Whatever way we decided to go, it's only going to be to make our team the strongest it can be. Maybe we play them all three. Maybe we play one of them.

I mean, I don't know. We'll figure it out. You know, it's interesting. Dak had a great rookie year, Vince Young, RG3. When you're a runner, when you have, I think it's very difficult to be a defensive coordinator and you have almost no film on Lamar Jackson. Right. Listen, Tebow had some initial success.

Running quarterbacks are so different than the rest of the league. You know, I'm sitting watching that game yesterday and Atlanta's guessing. Dak, your first year, you're like, oh, he runs a lot and with Zeke. And then after about a year and a half, people have film on Dak. And it's like, I think this was Tribesky. That was the biggest critique of Dak. Anyone who doubted Dak after his first year, that was what everyone kept saying. wait until they get some film on it.

It's going to change. And it looks like it has. Yeah, and I think in Lamar's case, he's different. Nobody has great film. It's a couple of weeks. You know, I watched there was a couple of trick plays in here that Baltimore smartly used his ability, and I'm like, Atlanta doesn't know what's going on.

Well, I don't blame Baltimore for using him in this manner. And if it's bringing you success, which it is, they've gone three and O with him. They've averaged 28 points in 395 yards per game, which is a big jump over Flacco. And I realize that Flacco has won a Super Bowl and, you know, he has, he is a starting level franchise quarterback, but you have to stick with the hot hand here.

I don't like the idea of doing quarterback by committee. That's just not a position that you rotate out in the NFL. Just stick with Lamar. If he falls off, then you put Flacco back in. And I don't, hopefully the Ravens won't, won't botch this, but we'll see what happens. Finally, Tom Brady has more Super Bowls than Super Bowl rings. And now the quarterback in league history, he, including postseason games, he's the NFL's all-time leading passer.

He's also won more games. any quarterback ever and this season he had a very unique goal because we know he's not a runner speaking of Lamar Jackson he wanted to finish his career with a thousand rushing yards and a five-yard gain yesterday against the Vikings his dream came true and he played a little coy about it after the game I don't know I'm not gonna say the ball I don't know where it went but yeah it's just you know played a lot of football and obviously I'm not very a scrambler but I hope I can make a couple plays you know running for it and made a good third down on that one.

And I just give a lot of credits the offensive line. They blocked their tails off to the day against a good front. And I don't want to make too much of a, you know, four or five-yard gain. That wasn't really the difference in the game. He did smile, though. Did you notice that? He knew it.

He knew. I feel like he's kind of, like, how LeBron always knows, like, what's going on when there's, like, a record about to happen or something like that. Like, he knew when he got it. And it's, like, it's Brady. He's going to, obviously, he's going to give the credit to the offensive line. Like, he's, it's kind of a funny thing to do. Colin, at the end of the game, he kneeled forward.

Did you see that? When he was kneeling the ball, he went forward so he wouldn't lose a rushing yard to go back under a thousand. That's funny. I mean, it's just funny. I mean, we're showing the Combine footage right now. He's just notorious for not being a good runner. And it's so Brady of him not to keep the ball. Like, oh, I don't need that one.

Joe Hay with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Greg Jennings was a multiple time pro bowler won a ring with the Packers. A decade in the NFL is a top flight wide receiver. He is joining us via the Coward Global Satellite Network. All right.

So the Packers fire Mike McCarthy. My takeaway, which used to be a hot take, but I hear now everywhere is, I don't think Aaron's the easiest guy in the world to coach. Am I wrong? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. When you have a guy who holds so much in his own hands because of his talent, his ability, his skill set.

And now because of his pocketbook, it's going to be a challenge for the Green Bay Packers to go out and find a coach who is willing, not who's willing. Because a lot of coaches will be willing, but who can take on the task of coaching not only the Green Bay Packers, is one of the most story franchises in all the football and all of sport. But Aaron Rogers with him on the downslide of his career. You know, Greg, because he signed that contract, that's going to guarantee that his teammates are going to be younger. You can't afford expensive guys. I think Aaron is hard to play with for young players. I want to go back to your career.

as you grew with Aaron, made a little more money, had now established yourself as an elite receiver. Take me back to your first two years with Aaron when you didn't have all the coin, when nobody knew who Greg Jennings was. Is he hard to play with when you're new, when you're young, when you're not established? Well, I think the difference for me was

I entered the Green Bay Packer organization with Brett Farb as my quarterback. So once Aaron took over, you know, I had had a couple years under my belt and had started to make a name for myself. And so we as a receiver group, we as an offense, we had success. And then in comes Aaron Rogers, who we knew who was going to be a very, very good talent. And he didn't prove us wrong or himself wrong. And I think for me, when I look at young guys on that team with Aaron Rogers that quarterback, he's going to have to understand that I'm going to own it.

And what I mean by that is I have to deflect everything off of my young guys because I want to protect them. I want them to grow. I have to learn how to be a nurturer. I have to learn how to take the blunt of the hit as well as the experience, all the success and praise that comes with things. And I think that's one thing that young guys will struggle with with Aaron Rogers is his, he's not always been willing to say that was me. That's my fault. Let me take that off my young guy's shoulder.

That was all on me. Is the Green Bay job, is it a great job? I mean, let's face it, small town, only thing in town. They don't go get a lot of free agents. They've got their own culture. They like the guys they draft. If I said to you, Greg, if you went into coaching and there were 10 jobs available, Is Green Bay a great job?

Because I think a lot of people think it is, but is it? You know, it's a great job because you have the opportunity to leave one of the most storied franchises in all of football. In this situation, it is a job that you think of with great detail, meaning not only am I taking on the Green Bay Packer organization, but I'm taking on Aaron Rogers. I'm taking on one of the faces of the National Football League at 35 years old, and I have to overcome what Mike McCarthy, what all the media, what we all saw Mike McCarthy was unable to do, which was get the best out of an Aaron Rogers talent that he possibly could.

Can you do that and can you handle what comes with not doing that if you choose to take that job? You know, it's very interesting. You're in a very unique position, Greg, because you played with a legend who had a stack of money was the most popular guy in the world, Brett Farb at the end. And then you were introduced to a young Aaron. And I've heard, you know, Jimmy Johnson with Dan Marino, Brad Childeris with an old Fav. Those guys are, they have a strong point of view on life when they're young. But the time they get rich and famous and old, they're tougher. Go back to your Fav years, the last couple. because I think Aaron's entered that territory. Rich, popular, established, iconic. Was Brett in the last couple years? I know he was great with you, Greg, but was he sometimes difficult? I think Brett Farr was definitely difficult

for Coach McCarthy coming in. McCarthy and I, Mike McCarthy and I, came in to Green Bay at the same year. His rookie year was my rookie year. And what I noticed and I experienced with that is when you enter into a relationship with someone and you have no type of rapport with them, it's even that much more difficult and challenging. The luxury Mike McCarthy had was that he had a relationship with Brett Farr,

dating back to his early coaching days. And so the Green Bay Packers understood we can bring this guy in because he's going to have Brett's attention. And I think when you look at Aaron Rogers and you look at the comparison with Brett, far, that's the only thing that's different here. Or that's the number, that's, yeah, that's the number one thing that's different. There is going to be no coach that really has a relationship with Aaron Rogers. So you're going to be coming in starting from scratch, a guy who, who has one of the highest IQs in all of football, who believes that he knows just about everything, if not all of everything. Can you, can you be thick-skinned enough, strong-willed and strong-minded? And

strong-minded enough to butt heads with that at times and tell him, no, this is how we're going to do it. This is what you need to know. And this is how I can help you grow. That's going to be the challenge for the Green Bay Packers. Can they find that coach that can do that? You know, the division. With no previous relationship.

Yeah, no. Listen, I think you're bringing up the stuff that I question. The idea that you're going to bring some, you know, Sean McVeigh hot shot in and say, okay, tell Aaron how football was invented. You know, I just don't see that working out. Let me ask you this, though. Let's go to physically with Aaron. He just turned 35 yesterday.

A couple of shoulder surgeries. Do you believe he's got four to five years left of great quarterback play? Or do you watch him now and think, you know, physically, he's back nine. He's hole 11. What do you see physically with Aaron? Physically, I definitely see him on the back nine. Back 11 is good. It's safe to say.

But here's the thing, when you watch Aaron Rogers and you look at what he can do physically, if he can stay healthy, he can be elusive and he can be electric. My question is, and I've mentioned this before on your show, where I think in order for Aaron to continue to play into his early 40s, as he has mentioned that he would like to do, he has to become a more popular. pure pocket passer. Stop going outside the pocket, outside the tackles and taking those extra hits. Because when Aaron Rogers has been hurt, it has come to his ability to extend the plays, get outside the pocket, and then expose himself. If he's willing to become a more primary pocket passer, then yes, I think he can play at a high level, extremely high level, for the next four or five, six years.

Yeah. That's kind of what I believe, too. It's not like he's not a pocket guy, but he is a jazz musician. He's an ad libber. He goes off script, and he gets you a lot of home runs that way, but that's how the guys track him down and drive his shoulder into the turf. Greg Jennings, great talking to you, bud, thanks so much. Absolutely.

We are loaded today. We got Peter King. We got Michael Vic. I got Joel Clatt. I got Trent Dilfer, top of the hour, where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. Coming up next, I've got a lot of thought. about the college football weekend, what the committee did. Did Georgia get hosed?

Is Alabama vulnerable? Did Ohio State get host? College football thoughts? That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. All right. So college football has got its final four set.

This is the final four that we bought into a week ago. couple weeks. Last couple of weeks, we've been on Bama, Clemson, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma. And so that's the final four we got. We said Georgia had to beat Alabama. It's not fair that if you lose to Alabama, Alabama should not have to play a couple of weeks later. That's not fair. And we didn't buy into Ohio State because, and the committee agreed with us here, you can't lose to Purdue by 29 points. What the committee really told you, and this is what we talked about, I preach this Friday. This is what I preach Friday. I said, ugly losses are more harmful than a good win is helpful.

Because everybody, even bad college football teams have impressive wins. But great college football teams don't get beat by 30 by per don't. Okay, so Ohio State, the committee told you that Georgia's ugly loss to LSU eliminated them. It wasn't the Bama game. if Georgia beat LSU and lost to Bama, they'd be in this thing. The committee told you that Georgia's loss, coupled with Bama's loss, or Bama's win over Georgia, those two, you're out. And Ohio State, you're not going to overcome a 29-point loss.

And I agree that none of those five teams ahead of Ohio State would lose to Purdue by 30 points. But here's the other thing. So now here we have our final four. Bama Clems in Oklahoma, Notre Dame. That's who I think should be in. And I think it should be Georgia 5 and Ohio State 6. I'm great with that, and that's what the committee saw. But I hear now a little complaining about this.

Georgia, I mean, come on, I watch that game. They are every bet as good as Alabama. Well, perhaps. But remember this. In the South, there are two things SEC teams do. They refuse to play a number. ninth conference game like other conferences. They only play eight.

And they argue that's because it's so tough down here. And then they also face more cupcakes out of conference. And our argument is, well, it's so tough down here. Okay, fine. So we're going to let you play one less conference game. And we're going to allow you more cupcakes. I mean, did you see who Georgia played out of conference this year? It was typical.

Middle Tennessee State, Austin P. UMass, I mean, forget Georgia Tech, that's an in-state rival. If you're going to be allowed to face one less conference game, all right, okay, you got it, and face three absolute cupcakes. All right. Then I'm going to judge your season on a handful of huge games. And Georgia, you had three big games this year. Florida, LSU, and Bama, and you went one and two.

I wouldn't judge you so harshly. But if you're going to have the SEC won't play a ninth conference games, faces more cupcakes than everybody, they always have an in-season buy right before the big game. All right, we'll give you all those. But then I'm going to come down on you hard on two or three big games. And you add three biggies? I mean, don't talk about Kentucky.

Nobody gives a rip about Kentucky football in Kentucky. I mean, nobody cares. I'm going to judge on three games. Florida beat them, LSU blown out, Bama beating. One and two. Can't go one and two in your three big games. because you got three weeks this year against Middle Tennessee State and Austin P and UMass

that were weeks off. Then you have a buy. And I'll give the Southern teams all that. But then I'm going to judge your season on one or two games where I'm not going to for everybody else. And in the end, I thought the committee did a good job. I thought the final, everybody always bangs on the committee. If I have to hear Dickie V and somebody rail on the college basketball committee,

they do a great job. If those guys in college basketball didn't know what they were doing, then you'd have nine seeds and eight seeds and seven seeds in the final four. You ever notice who's in the final four? One seeds, two seeds, three seeds, four seeds, because the seeding's good. All the media does is act outrage, a bunch of phony fake news. Every year, if you go to the elite eight, it's always seven of the eight teams or one seed, two seed, three seed, four seed, and maybe they'll be like a seven seed.

That means the seeding was good. And you can say what you want, but the bottom line here is once again the committee got it right. And they did something that I think is very, very important for all of us to remember. It's not your wins what the committee looked for in your worst moment, how bad were you? Because in the history of college football, the last 28 years, no national championship team has ever gotten blown out, ever. Now, they've lost, you know, Ohio State lost to Virginia Tech. I watched that game. It wasn't a blowout.

It was two really good football teams and it was a two-score game. You cannot lose by 30 to Purdue. LSU lost Alabama like 29-0. You're out at home. Done, over. You can go to the Outback Bowl. You can go to the Sugar Bowl. Not playing for the national championship.

Kirk Herb Street defended Georgia's case to be in the playoff. Here it was. I think the committee has said that, two losses is too much for Georgia to overcome. This is a historical moment as far as evaluating the committee and moving forward because the eyeball test to me clearly Georgia is a top 14. But at some point you have to go with what is instead of what might have happened. I agree with that too. I'll say it again. If Georgia doesn't get blown out by LSU, they lose an overtime. And if they scheduled out of conference, Wisconsin, Utah, and they want to

those games. I may think of it differently, but when you go three and four cupcakes and you won't play a ninth conference game, I'm a judge really harshly on one or two or three. And you were one and two, George, in those three. You were one and two. Your season boils down in the SEC to a couple of games because you're not willing to play big dogs at a conference. You won't even play average schools at a conference and you won't play a ninth conference game. There you go. Where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong at the top of next hour. I got Michael Vic, Peter King's Got News, Trent Dilfer, Joel Clatt joins us from New York as well.

All sorts of good stuff. I'll tell you, the Green Bay situation with Aaron Rogers now, you know, we were talking about this as we got ready for our show today. We were just sitting down and we were just talking about it. A year ago, a year ago, I was being told, I didn't agree with it, that Brady was not the goat. Aaron Rogers was the goat. A year ago.

A year later, one's man overboard, drama, the other one, still the goat. Talent is really important. I tell young broadcasters this all the time. Talent matters. Coachability, relatability with coworkers, every bit is important. Here's where Brady and Rogers aren't close. coachability, leadership, working well with others. Ain't close, bruh, not close.

Rogers way down here, Brady way up here. Colin right, calling wrong on Monday with Joy next. All right, here we go, hour two to Monday. This is the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening in Los Angeles, Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and right here, FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me. I got to tell you, since that Rams Chiefs Monday Night Football game, the ratings

at every network up, up, up, up, up. That rating for the Patriots yesterday in Minnesota was through the roof. It was like a 16. I mean, does anybody really understand an regular season NBA game getting a 16? And a regular season NBA game will get less than a 1. You're getting like multiple games now

are getting 11s, 12s, 14s. I know it's ratings talk. NFL right now is on fire. It's offensive. Most of the quarterbacks are healthy. And we start it. every Monday at this time where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. Where Colin was right?

You know, you pay Kirk Cousins, $28 million, it's the double whammy. You're paying him too much, and he can't deliver in big spots. Last night was weak. Four yards per pass. He had a third and 11 last night, a big third and 11 late in the game. He could not get rid of that ball fast enough to a slant pattern. I mean, in the end, when you pay $28 million, you're basically. better be getting all world performance.

Because even Breeze, Brady, and Ben have taken pay cuts. Two more years for Kirk Cousins at 28 large. They're now 6.5 and 1. It's a good roster. Adam Thielen, 28 yards. I mean, Kirk Cousins, it should be noted as 6-2-200 pounds. You know, Carson Wentz is 6.4.5, 235. Not a physical specimen.

And I, you know, when you pay him that much, I like him, but I always thought there's a lot of fools gold here. Colin was wrong. I think this year, a lot of times I start cool and then get hot in betting. My Blazing 5 is on a two-week losing streak. I didn't think Lamar Jackson would be 3-0. I didn't think Andrew Luck and the Colts would be shut out. And I didn't think the Vikings would be barely competitive. I mean, listen, Blazing 5, I'm going to have to fire some employees in the Blazing five staff because right now they're not getting it done. How the hell do Andrew Luck get shut out? That game was beyond.

I almost threw a shoe at the television this weekend. Not very strong for his MVP case. It's like that shrugging emojis moving up a little higher. Where Colin was right. The final four in college football, what we predicted it would be a couple of weeks ago, Bamma Clemson, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma. Oklahoma does not have a great defense.

I'm not saying they do, but a wizard as a coach, a lot of great playmakers, tremendous mobile quarterback, they'll make Alabama sweat a little. And the committee rewarded Oklahoma for only having one blemish on their schedule, a very good team in Texas that will go to a good bowl, and they avenge the loss. Meanwhile, what the committee said, and I agreed with, was Ohio State's 29-point loss, coupled with the fact that Ohio State, what did they do well all year?

Not running the football, not defense, not coaching. A lot of drama. I think Ohio State was a very good football team in the last two games. I thought they were very good against Michigan and very good against Northwestern. I thought Oklahoma, outside of a game against Army, pretty much gave me a good effort all year. Got it right. Where Colin was wrong. Yeah, as Joy mentioned, my MVP thing got screwed up.

I had Breeze and Andrew Luck running away with it. Well, Drew at his worst game ever and luck got shut out. Fellas, I got 10 points combined. And Mahomes, by the way, led his team in rushing and had four touchdown passes. It's not that I don't like Mahomes. I do. I've just been a little cooler on his ad-libbing style than everybody else. He's a tremendous talent.

But I saw him play some in college. And my sources have always said, he was a little loosey-goosey. He's got a perfect system now with Andy Reid. He's got a great deep threat or two. He's got Travis. You know, it's all perfect. for him and we've seen guys like Dak when it's all perfect be great but I think Mahomes wrapped up the MVP yesterday where Colin was right um listen Baker Mayfield bummer you don't

get to face Cincinnati every week we told you now he's going to face on the road a real defense in Houston and come back to earth three picks in the first half Cleveland as an offense had four turnovers Baker got shut out in the first half By the way, he made some really nice throws, but here's what I didn't like. And this is what I've never liked about Baker. Baker had a little success. Yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, last 10 games. Okay?

Baker was very quiet when he was losing early. He was a professional. Baker had a little taste of success. Ooh, Cincinnati and Atlanta's defenses. Lamar tore up Atlanta's defense. Lamar's a kid, just like you're a kid. But Lamar, I'm not hearing anything from Lamar, Jackson. I don't need. Lamar Jackson's won three straight. I don't hear a peep out of him.

Baker Mayfield went in a little winning streak. Well, this is reality. Baker, there's a lot more Houston Texans than there are Bengals defenses in the NFL. Where Colin was wrong. Pete Carroll should be coach of the year in the NFL. He should be coach of the year. I've said this with Pete. I think Pete's going to be a Hall of Fame coach. I'm not doubting that. I want a national title in college and a Super Bowl. I'm not doubting that. But I've been told through the years by veteran players, his sort of raw, raw energy wears thin with older players. Well, he has done a masterful job. He got rid of some of the older, noisier players.

And this is a younger defense. They play discipline. They play with great energy. This is a perfect team for Pete Carroll. And he is, I think, rebooted the running game. And right now they're a five seed. They're red hot. They've got some good home games coming up.

Listen, I always thought Pete was a good coach. But I thought a lot of his stuff, it had about a, you know, It's like a seven-year window, and then the divorce hits with Pete. But he has rebooted it, and he should be really proud because this is a, no mistakes, run the football, assignment defense, no drama. Congrats to Pete Carroll. Where Colin was right. Listen, my knock on Cam Newton has always been, I'm not doubting you're talented, but dude, you're a roller coaster.

They were six and two. They're now six and six. He had four picks yesterday against one of the worst defenses known to man in Tampa Bay. He has never had back-to-back winning seasons. But hey, he looked cool coming into the stadium. Nobody looks cooler. And nobody looks cooler than Cam. But I don't want to hear about he doesn't have weapons.

DJ Moore is a terrific young receiver. Devin Funches is a very good receiver. Greg Olson's going to make the Hall of Fame, arguably, at tight end. And McCaffrey has been terrific in their old lines above average. I'm tired of hearing about the excuse. You can't be in this league eight years and be throwing four picks against the division rival, and you know all their players. You face Tampa Bay twice a year.

You know their schemes. You know their – Tom Brady knows Miami, the Jets, and Buffalo. Those are the games Tom knows every trick in the book for those teams. That was classic roller coaster cam. They just didn't look prepared to play. Where Colin was wrong. Atlanta was my Super Bowl pick. Now, they had some injuries early, but come on, man.

You cannot have this level of offensive talent. And in four straight week, score 16, 19, 17, and 16 points. I mean, there's just way too much talent on this team. And I don't really know who to blame. I'm not in that locker room. But even if they had health, because I thought in the first month I could blame injuries. I mean, they came in on crutches. It's more than that.

It's the culture. They're too finesse. Matt Ryan's not played well. Maybe it's Sark and Matt Ryan. But, you know, I just, I overvalued the stability of Matt Ryan. Second year was Sark. They're a mess. And they got way too much offensive talent to be scoring in the teens at home.

Where Colin was right? I went to the Chargers draft room this year. And everybody thought I was being a homer. And I said, Derwin James is going to be the, the steel of the draft. And every NFL source I had said, man, you were in the right draft room tonight

because Derwin James is great. I think he could be a top three safety in this league. I'm serious. Last night, he was unbelievable. And now the Chargers, for all the doubters out there, they didn't have their best player offensively. They didn't have their star Melvin

Gordon running back, and it doesn't matter. Because they had Justin Jackson, a seventh round rookie who was great, but Derwin James put on a clinic and validated why I said when I was in that Chargers room, the steel of the draft, not because I was there, was Derwin James. He is absolutely incredible. Where Colin was right? Well, Cam, Baker, Rogers, and Ben went 0 for 4 yesterday. Football's hard.

It's even harder with drama. Baker Mayfield kept that Hugh Jackson story alone. for an extra six days. And Big Ben kept that interception in Denver alive for another five days. I was talking about it on Friday. You know who wasn't dramatic this week? Russell Wilson and Tom Brady. Okay.

Quarterbacks are the leader of a franchise. They're like presidents. You're supposed to be fire extinguishers, not gasoline. And the dramatic four, and I talked about him last week, Cam Baker-Rogers-Bin noise, drama, theatrics 0 for 4 yesterday. Peter King's around the corner.

Joel Clatt, Michael, Vic, Trent Dilfer, just starting out today on a Monday. Who we got in Monday Night Football tonight, guys? No. That's kind of a stinker. Yeah, I guess it is elimination. Yeah, I guess... New Redskins Eagles is important.

It is. I love watching Carson Wentz. So I'm all in all. I'll just watch the game because I like Carson Wentz. Boy, football's good right now. We're only about 60% of the way through. All the cream now rise into the top. Peter King around the corner. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. You know, I'm watching the Packers yesterday, and I'm thinking, you know what Green Bay

reminds me of? They remind me of that sitcom that's like great for seven years. And then you can kind of tell it year seven. It tails off. It's not as funny. They kind of lose their creative edge. And so the sitcom decides to bring it a new character to add life to it, like the office brought in James Spader or friends brought in like Paul Rudd.

And it's either a resurrection of that sitcom or it marks the end of the sitcom. And if you ever notice with that sitcom after about six, seven years, that the top actors now get producing credits so they get a little more power and they get a little more money. And when you watch the credits at the end of the show, they're actors and the executive producer role. And that's what Green Bay feels like. Like, okay, let's bring in another guy.

We've lost our creative edge here. Let's bring in another guy. And, you know, as Greg Jennings said earlier, you bring in another guy, does Aaron have a relationship with him? Will he respect him? Even if he's a hot shot guru. Greg Jennings talked about the danger

in bringing in a new guy with Aaron Rogers. The luxury Mike McCarthy had was that he had a relationship with Brett Farr dating back to his early coaching days. And so the Green Bay Packers understood we can bring this guy in because he's going to have Brett's attention. There is going to be no coach

that really has a relationship with Aaron Rogers. So you're going to be coming in starting from scratch. Can you be thick enough, thick-skinned enough? strong-willed and strong-minded enough to butt heads with that at times and tell him, no, this is how we're going to do it. This is what you need to know. And this is how I can help you grow. That's going to be the challenge for the Green Bay Packers.

It really is. There's going to be a lot of challenges here. And it does have a sitcom feel to it. Like, you know, all these great, doesn't matter if it's Seinfeld, curfier enthusiasm, you get about seven years into that thing and you'll lose your creative edge, modern family, friends. They're still funny. and they're still relevant, but you bring in somebody to inject a new angle on it, easier to write to.

And sometimes it's a resurrection, but most of the time it kind of marks the end, the end of the sitcom. So we'll see what the new guy does. Pros in the nose start with Lowe's 5% off on eligible purchases made every day with a Lowe's business credit account, exclusions, apply C-Store for details. US-only. Joy Taylor with the News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News.

So we talked a lot last week about potential destinations for Cliff Kingsbury, despite some reported NFL interest. He appeared to be maybe joined the USC staff as a offensive coordinator. Well, our very own Peter Schroger dropped a little Schreger bomb on the situation yesterday. I could tell you that last week, when he was fired, one of the first texts that he received was from Sean McVeigh, another coach in L.A. Sean McVeigh reached out to Kingsbury because they had a history together.

said, hey, we're about to go on this playoff run. I can use all the intel and all the juice that I can get. McVeigh offered some sort of role to Cliff Kingsbury and said, if you want to finish out the season with us, there could be a spot for you. I'm always looking to get better on offense, and I trust your offensive instincts. Just imagine that. He goes to L.A., but not to USC. By the way, Joy, what is this right there?

That's for Big J. Journalism. Big J. Journalism. My sources told me yesterday that Cliff Kingsbury is about a 64. USC lien. He likes the opportunity to use and play with USC's talent, but he has an NFL, two teams

interested. They're both teams west of Denver. One of them is the Rams. There's another team west of Denver that is interested in having him be an employee. So that's where I stand, but he is a 60-40

USC lean today. Couldn't you take the NFL job being that, you know, we're getting towards the end of the season and it's the playoff run and then go to USC? It's not like he hasn't been a head coach in college before. No, it's a very good point.

And then you have NFL experience on your resume if you want to take an NFL offensive coordinator or if someone wants to take a risk head coaching opportunity next year. If you're going to tie yourself to a struggling NFL team or a struggling college team, to your point, just take the NFL job.

Because then you can come down. It's easier to go down and up. It's not a long-term commitment either way. So what difference does it make? You might as well get the NFL experience and leave that door open to you. You've been a head coach in college. No, I think if I was his agent and I would probably say to him, who's the quarterback you're working with and take the highest-level job you can. Yes. And that would be NFL. Because you don't have a long-term commitment in the situation.

Might as well ride the hot hand. So Deshawn Watson joined some elite company during yesterday's win over the Browns. He became only the third quarterback in NFL history to have 40 passing touchdowns in the first 19 career games, along with Kurt Warner and Dan Marino. They are now nine and three, and the number three seed in the AFC tied with the Patriots and game behind the Chiefs. You trust the Texans make a good playoff run. No, I don't. But Deshawn Watson is somebody that we literally outthought the room. It's amazing that he was not the number one pick. When I watch, Some people are hard to categorize.

I can look at certain guys and go, okay, that's a pocket guy, and that's an athletic guy. Deshawn plays the position differently. He extends plays. He can run, but he'd rather to throw from the pocket. I think we outthought the room on this guy. I think he did in college at Clemson exactly what he's done at Houston. He comes into a really formidable roster that's already really good, and he just goes, and he just adds another 20 percent.

And when I watch him play, I just, in big spots, he just generally makes, he's a playmaker. But that's what he was in college? I know. So what was the big deal? What was everyone thinking? People were like, I talked to scouts and they're like, I don't think he's a great throw with the football. And I'm like, and I push back on this.

I said, either's Tribisky, but I get a guy who started for like three years in college. Not only that. to me, playing huge in big games matters. Yes. Like, all you have is college to go off of, right? Like, this is the tryout for the NFL, your college resume. His college resume is great. He played great in big games against the biggest team.

What more can you ask for? Well, this happens a lot. And scouting is that we, you know, it's a prime example. Is Adam Thielen doesn't get drafted. Tony Romo doesn't get drafted. Sometimes we look at your school. A lot of times, God. You know, that guy that Thomas kid for the Saints

Did not run a great... Michael Thomas did not run a great 40. And so everybody's like, well, it's like, you know, but he was great in big games. These combines, we start looking at all these like numbers. Can you play or can you not? Numbers are important and that's fine, but do a healthy dose of both.

And at the end of the day, if you're talented and you know how to win and you've been in situations where you've had to win and you've made it happen, that matters to me. Finally, Pat Beverly was ejected from the game last night in Dallas after he forcefully bounced the ball towards a fan that was sitting on the baseline. We talked a little bit

about hecklers a week ago. After the game, Beverly said the fan twice had yelled at him, bleep your mother. Everly added, I can accept the bleep you, Beverly, but out of lines is my mother. There's some things that are unacceptable. After I told the refs, I told security.

Dallas security told them both of them again, and he said it again. So if no one's going to control fans, what are we supposed to do as players? I back the players on this. There's no excuse. I don't believe in heckling. I think hecklers should be ejected. I think what's happened is players make a lot of money and there's a lot of animosity among fans. By the way, you're not only heckling a player, but you're ruining my experience and I paid $300 for a ticket. Right. So I don't believe in this. You have a right to say anything. I don't

think you should be allowed to heckle. You can criticize a player, but there's a line between on a player for an hour, being a jerk, and I'll support players 99 out of 100 times in this case. I mean, I'm totally behind him as well. And like he said, I mean, he even said, I'm okay with you saying things to me about me, but you start involving someone's family. There comes a point where people feel like I'm paid for this entertainment. Like, you're my entertainment, you're mine to do with what I want because I paid for. And the reality is, they can take away your seat and give it to someone else who will happily pay for that seat.

You will not make everyone else's experience miserable and be disrespectful to, these are human beings. Listen, I don't think you should be able to heckle a comic. If I pay $200 to watch Seinfeld, I don't want to hear some idiot. from Schenectady, heckling Seinfeld. Nobody came to see you. Nobody came to see a heckling fan. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously he's going to deal with a fine. And, you know, I don't know if he's going to be suspended or not, but he told him.

So what can you do? All right. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly news. Well, a major story yesterday, Green Bay does not have a history of firing coaches mid-season. It's sort of been this sort of above it all, almost a collegiate feel where let's let him get out of the season. But Mike McCarthy got.

whacked. Let's bring in Peter King, NBC Sports via the Coward Global Satellite Network. All right, Peter, you've covered this league for a long time. Packers don't generally do that. How did it land for you, the firing, you know, in week 12, 13? I thought it was smart by the Packers. I thought it was actually humane. This, you know, what would have happened over the next four weeks? What the Packers were doing obviously was not working. I mean, they're a 500 team over nearly three years. It's not working.

You got Aaron Rogers. He's a great player. You got Mike McCarthy, who's a very good coach. And for some reason, whatever the blame is, it'll be in a book in 2037, exactly what happened to ruin this reign of Packers. But the bottom line is very simple, Colin. You know, it wasn't working. and the reason that I say this is humane is that a month from today

Mike McCarthy will be on the interview circuit. Yeah. Okay? Would Mike McCarthy like to get fired on January 1st and on the morning of January 2nd have an interview with the Cleveland Browns and then get flown in a private plane to New Jersey, have dinner with the Jets,

and then the next day, would he like to get flown to Tampa? I mean, you know, here's the whole thing. This is going to be, and I'm sure he scoffs at this right now. This is going to be good for Mike McCarthy. Yeah. You know, everybody knows he was getting fired. And so it's going to be good for him. And it'll be very good for the Packers,

not only to set up what they need to do about getting the next coach, but to have a philosophical discussion. about where we are as an organization. We got a first year general manager. Where are we as an organization? What kind of coach do we want? If the Packers were to fire Mike McCarthy the day after the season, they're in this sprint-a-thon with all these other people chasing Josh McDaniels and whoever else it is.

Calm down. Go slow. Figure out what you want to do as an organization. This is the smartest way to do it. NBC Sports, Peter King. Peter, Josh McDaniels, I hear, John D. Philippo. You know, I've made this argument. The idea that you're going to inject some newbie, the next Sean McVey, and Aaron Rogers, is going to be like, all right, you take over the program.

I don't think Aaron's the easiest guy to coach. I think Aaron has a strong point of view. Jimmy Johnson saw it with Marino. Brad Childress saw it with Brett Farv. Once a legend gets popular and rich and has a title, these are not the easiest people in the world to coach. do you bring in the new guy or do you bring in an established guy? Which way do you go on this? Well, I mean, I think you have to figure out, okay, who is the established guy and who is the new guy?

Yeah. The only way that this is going to work, because look, a couple of years ago, I had a long sit-down with Aaron Rogers. And one of the things he told me is, I want to be coached, I want to be coached hard. If you ever listen at these Super Bowl press conferences to Josh McDaniels talking about coaching Tom Brady, they go at it. Yeah. You know, and they go at each other pretty hard. That is what I think Aaron Rogers needs right now. But there also needs to be a give and take.

A couple of weeks ago, when I was fortunate enough to sit in on Saturday night with the New Orleans Saints, I saw a couple of hours of Drew Brees and Sean Payton. And particularly, I saw Breeze tell Sean Payton, hey, here are the plays I really want to run tomorrow. Let's talk about them. And they had a back and forth about it. Yeah. There was, they were peers.

And that's what needs to happen. Whoever the coach is, if Aaron Rogers is going to roll his eyes when this guy says, hey, we're going to try more RPO's next year. Well, they either have the wrong guy or Rogers has got to get slapped into. reality and I don't think that's going to be the case with Aaron Rogers. You know, it's interesting. There's obviously some teams that, you know, I think the, you know, Minnesota Kirk Cousins, 28 million next two years, I was saying this watching that game last night, that Minnesota's coaching staff, Minnesota's GM and their owner, they're not going to say it publicly, but they've got

to have a little doubt in 28 million the next two years when Adam Thielen 28 yards, it was classic Belichick, take away your greatest weapon, what do you have? I mean, I look at Minnesota and I think realistically, there are some regrets with cousins. A little bit, Peter, a little? Maybe a little, but I think there are more regrets right now in the running game and the fact that their offensive line is a total mishmash. And that's the thing. If I'm looking at the Minnesota Vikings right now,

I'm going out and buying the best offensive linemen I can find in free agency and two of my first three picks are offensive linemen. That needs a big rebuild. It's exactly what Chris Ballard did when he got to Indianapolis. If our franchise player is our quarterback and he's got the crap beat out of him the last couple of years that he did play, well, it's up to me to figure out a way to protect them. And that's precisely what the Indianapolis Colts set out to do. And everybody said, oh, my God, you can't pick a guard number six. Quentin Nelson, what are you doing?

Well, if he's going to stabilize your line in part anyway for the next eight or ten years, yes, you do. You do use the sixth pick in the draft on them. When you've got Andrew Luck that you're trying to protect. And it's the same thing. when I look at the Minnesota Vikings, there are too many cave-ins on that offensive line. In my opinion, they've got to address it and they've got to address it fast. You have a go-to-the-week every week in your column, Peter King, NBC Sports,

a player that is responsible for his team's loss, that you really think, often a star, that he's got to own it a little. Who was your go-to-the-week? Oh, my go-to-the-week this week was Cam Newton. It was almost O'Dell Beckham. If the Giants lost that game, I was going to put the goal. Goadhorns on him for not diving for the onside kick that would have ended the game in the fourth quarter. But Cam Newton's just too loose with the football.

He's throwing four interceptions. He's thrown seven picks in this four-game losing streak. I mean, you know, a Norv Turner offense, you should not be throwing that many interceptions. Norv Turner's reputation is you usually have a safe house. You know, you usually got somewhere you can go, even if it's not a deep throw. And I think Cam Newton, he's too far into his career in a game that basically probably cost the Panthers any chance at making the playoffs. To throw four interceptions at Tampa, I'm sorry, it's inexcusable. Finally, Steelers Chargers was Crazy Town.

It was typical Steelers. Every game, Denver's crazy. Jacksonville's crazy. They haven't had a boring game since week eight. Going forward, I argue, this kind of drama wears a team out. You've got to have a game like last night for New England where you kind of feel in control for three hours. This morning, do you trust Pittsburgh in the playoffs this morning? Well, I'll just say I'll make one point about Pittsburgh last night.

I mean, there's a good chance that Chargers are one of the best five teams in football. They've got a quarterback who's playing as well as he ever has in his life, and that's saying something for a guy who's probably going into Canton one day. At age 37, Philip Rivers is

a king right now. So do I have concern for them? Yes. I do have concern for them, but I would have more concern for the Pittsburgh Steelers physically. especially now that James Connor limped off last night.

Yeah. You know, especially now that Ryan Switzer, you know, has gotten absolutely steamrolled two games in a row now, and he's been a good little returner for them. I would, I'd be a little bit concerned with the physical toll these games are taken on the Steelers. Good stuff, Peter King football morning in America on a Monday, NBCSports.com. Good talking to you, Peter. Thank you, Colin.

Yeah, that thing was crazy last night. That game was yesterday. I'm telling you, man, this league right now is humming. There are so many good games. So many good, so many good football games this weekend. College, pro, last night yesterday. I was just sitting there after I threw a shoe at the TV because the Colts lost. It's just one game after another, after another.

Russell Wilson, tip of the cap. Guys, he good. Russell Wilson. Man! I want Russell Wilson video before the end of the show. I love watching him play. I love... Jimmy Johnson told me yesterday.

I don't know if he said it on the air. Jimmy Johnson told me in person yesterday on the Sunday show. We were off air having oatmeal. And Jimmy says, minute and a half left. One quarterback in the league. He goes, I'd take Russell Wilson. Legs, brain, arm. He goes, I'd take Russell Wilson.

And I'm like... That's on Brady, huh? I think I would too. Russell can make you place with your feet. He is so good. I don't get it. I don't get the pushback. We were a little wrong on the Seahawks, huh?

Yeah, they look good. Joel Clats around the corner joining us from New York. His thought, strong opinions. Did the committee butcher it? That's coming up. Thursday, Marcus Marriota and the Titans look to keep their playoff hopes alive against the Jaguars. It all starts at 730 Eastern on Fox, NFL Network, and streaming on Prime Video. All right, we got some college football.

Let's go to New York City. Joel Clatt, the voice of college football at Fox, via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Here we go. All right, Clatster, the committee criteria. What are the final rankings, Joel, tell you about what mattered to the committee? Yeah, okay. So it wasn't about your performances or your defense or your offense, and it wasn't about four best.

No, no, no. What the committee told us and what they really have told us for a couple of years now, we're boiling it down to like, this is the bottom line. for the committee is what are you at your worst? Yeah. They're going to take the highest floor of the year, Colin, the highest floor of the year. And I say that because that's very clearly what they gave us. If you were debating between three and six and how do you rank Notre Dame through Ohio State, the only way that you get them in this order is if you look at their floor. You see, Notre Dame's floor was a bunch of one possession wins, so wins against bad teams like Ball State, Pitt, and USC.

The floor for Oklahoma is just a three-point loss to Texas. Then you get to those bad losses for who? Georgia, a 20-point loss to a ranked team, and then a 29-point loss for Ohio State against Purdue. That's the only way, the only criteria that puts those teams in that order. So that's very clearly what the committee did. I don't disagree with that, nor do I disagree with Georgia being fifth and not in, although I think they're a very good football team.

Is there any circumstance for you that a two-lost team that lost team that lost their conference championship game could get in? None, none whatsoever. I mean, it's been very clear that this committee is not going to put a two-loss team in, period. If they didn't put Ohio State in as a two-loss team last year over a one-loss non-champ in Alabama, then they sure as well better not put a two-loss non-champ Georgia in over a one-loss champ this year in either Ohio State or Oklahoma. Listen, the bottom line is the best we saw Georgia look all year was a loss. And quite frankly, if you've got a 14-point lead twice and you've knocked out the Heisman

trophy leader, you should win the game. Yeah. So Kirby Smart's got this on his shoulders. You've got the game basically won. It's tie ball game. You're at the 50-yard line. You called a ridiculous fake. That's your problem, not mine.

Don't come crying to me needing a get-out-of-jail-free card, okay? You had a chance to win and you didn't. Therefore, you need to go home. Yeah, by the way, they had three big games this year. LSU, Bama, and Florida. They went one and two in their big three games. You've got to win more of those games. Okay.

So now we got Clemson Notre Dame. Let's start with that matchup. I like Clemson. I like Clemson, but I think Clemson's a flawed team. Your thoughts on that matchup? There is one major flaw, and I actually think that's where Notre Dame could exploit them, because I think Ian Book is a really good quarterback. He has shown a lot of efficiency since he got put into the starting lineup for Brian Kelly.

And Clemson does not defend the pass well. Look at what they did against South Carolina. They were an absolute sieve against the past. Everywhere else, they're a pretty great team. Yeah. You know, and I would err on the great side of things, but you can get them through the air, and that's why I think Notre Dame has got to go.

It really helps that Notre Dame is strong against the run. They're good in their front seven defensively with a guy like Jerry Tilleri, because that's going to put the onus on a true freshman in Hunter Lawrence rather than Travis Eton being able to run the football for, let's say, 150 yards. If you put all of that on the Clemson Passing game, I think there's an avenue for an upset for Notre Dame. I'm going to pick Clemson, but I think, Colin, this one's going to be a one-possession game late.

I think that Notre Dame is going to have a shot. Okay, Bama, I think beats Oklahoma, but I do think Kyler Murray running around is going to be, it's not going to be easy. I think it's going to be a 47-35, you know, two touchdown Bama. What do you think? Listen, you're so happy right now. You're like my kids when I give them ice cream before dinner, right? I mean, you got it.

You got your lappy taffy. You got your exciting matchup that you wanted. Yeah. Listen, I'm also excited, right? Nobody is going to turn down watching Kyler Murray play against that defense and against potentially to a tongue of Iowa if he's able to get healthy after this high ankle procedure that he has. Here's one thing that I'm concerned about for Oklahoma, though.

Oklahoma is not nearly as explosive as they can be if Hollywood Brown's not on the field. He's imperative for them because he gets the safeties out of the box. His speed is so important for their run game specifically, and if they're balanced, they're dangerous. If they're not, they're not nearly as dangerous. So his health, after leaving that game in the second half with that foot injury, I think is the number one key to the game. If he's on the field, I think Oklahoma has a shot. If he's not, I think Bama rolls. Finally, I've got to be honest, is in college football, we tend to think it holistically,

but you should cut it into seasons. DeWain Haskins, the quarterback for Ohio State, two months ago, I was like stay in college. I think he's the number one pick now. You called the game. I think I'd take him number one if I needed an NFL team in the quarterback. I tell you what, he has put together quite a case. He has come out and stated that he's going to play the Rose Bowl, so that'll be another game in which he has a chance to go against what I would deem one of the better past defenses and all of college football.

He's going to go up against that. past defense that has been very good. He has put together some tape column that I think puts him well inside of the top 10 this year in the NFL draft. And because of that, I would argue he should leave school. I always think it's good to get more reps. If you start with that premise, that's fine. But when you're in the top 10 or slated to be in the top 10,

I think that you've got to come out because you don't have that lottery ticket every single year. And there's only so long that you can play for free. Dwayne's a really talented guy who's thrown for a ton of yards. and I don't think he's going to be able to replicate this season next year. Because remember now, that Ohio State team loses some of those wide receivers. Three seniors going to leave that wide receiver core. So I don't think he's going to be able to throw for 4,000 yards and what is it, 47, 48 touchdowns, whatever he ended up with.

I think he needs to come out and I think he's likely going to be in the top 10. Colin, I'm not going to be shocked at all. And I know this is hyperbole. I'm not going to be shocked at all if he's the number one selection. I just won't. That position and the film late in the season, I think, might do it. Joel Klatt's got his holiday sweater on. Looks like a real professional.

He'll be at the Holiday Bowl doing Northwestern in Utah, December 31st. Yeah, buddy. Going to be a good game. Good talking you, buddy. You bet. I tell you what, I have fun eating that Laffy-Taffy watching that Orange Bowl. I will. Good stuff.

Now, I mean, you know, it's funny about the NFL. We all understand, Joy, the NFL, like you have pre- Thanksgiving and post- Thanksgiving and playoffs. But college football fans, like, they just think the season's one big glob. And teams get better in play. players get better. Dwayne Haskins for Ohio State. Four games into the year, I'm like, he needs more reps.

I'm watching him the last three weeks, and I'm like, oh, that's the number one picking the draft. That's who I would pay. Who right now would have the number one pick in the draft? Is it Raiders or 49ers? Okay, if I'm Raiders, I stay with Derek Carr. Who's the first team that needs a quarterback that's going to draft? New York Giants, now they're winning too many darn games.

That kid at Ohio State, man, he has got a gun. he is big, he is mobile. Like, I'm sorry, but when you watch and make this throw right here, that's an NFL throw. That is 55 yards on a dime to a moving target. I mean, even though the Giants keep winning games, they may be the first one. Oh, I would take him to need a quarterback.

Yeah. Again. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm just sorry, but that kid, Cincinnati, let's move off Andy Dalton. Move up in the draft. Jacksonville, move off Bortles. Come on. This kid can play.

again. I didn't think week four, I'm like, he needs 15, 20 more starts. That kid the last three weeks has been unbelievable. Michael, Vic, Trent Dilfer, three-word game. Our last hour today could be our best hour. Casper.com code heard. Casper.com code heard. A hundred nights risk free. The code gets you $50 off select mattresses. Terms and conditions apply. Casper.com code heard. Wow. This is the herd hour three, wherever you may be, and however you may be. And however you may be listening. Live in Los Angeles, Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio,

and FS1, Joy Taylor is joining me. This show is flying by. It is flying by. And this hour, we're packed. Coming up in five minutes, Michael Vick, in studio. I got Trent Dilfer coming up.

And best for last. We do it every Monday. The three-word game, every NFL game can be summed up in three words. But, well, well, well, Aaron Rogers on his birthday, Yes, it was his birthday yesterday. After the game, Aaron Rogers got his wish and Mike McCarthy was fired.

This, of course, means all of Aaron Rogers problems are solved. Right? And it was all McCarthy. Because they lost Arizona yesterday. That was all on McCarthy. It should be noted that Aaron now makes $33 million a year. None of the top six highest paid quarterbacks in the league currently lead their division. There's a reason because you can't afford other good players.

Aaron's going to be the highest paid or second highest paid guy in this league for several years. Breeze Ben Brady take pay cuts. Aaron is not. And so he's going to be forced to play with the younger, cheaper players. And Aaron Rogers does not like younger players. He's a highly cerebral guy who gets worn out from this rookie from, you know, Louisville or this rookie from, you know, Washington State. he gets worn out. By the way, he's had two major injuries.

And this is what I think is interesting. That everybody's like, well, he just needs Sean McVeigh. He just needs Matt Nagy. He just needs the next young Sean Payton. Really? You think that a newbie is going to walk into Aaron Rogers, 36-year-old hot shot coordinator, first-time head coach, is going to walk into Aaron Rogers.

And Aaron's like, oh, here, take my career. Go ahead. Hey, it's your team, not mine. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the way it's going to work. This will always be Aaron's team. For nine years, all I've been hearing is Aaron can do no wrong. And we got the problem out of here now, Mike McCarthy.

So we'll obviously go 15 and 1, 14 and 2. But I'll tell you this. You look around the quarterbacks who are really hitting it, now. Gough, Mahomes, Watson, Luck, Breeze, Brady. All of them have very coachable personalities. All of them have an excellent relationship with somebody offensively. Deshawn and Bill O'Brien, Brady and Josh McDaniels, Goff and McVeigh, Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid, Drew Breeze and Sean Peyton, Andrew Luck and Frank Wright, all have a very coachable, a meaner. personality. All of them, all of them have an excellent offensive partner, and this is the rub.

Aaron's never had that great offensive partner. Is anybody considered Aaron's not real coachable? And there's a reason all these years in the NFL, he's never had a great partner? Like if it takes this long, you're 10 years into a career and you've never had the perfect partner, maybe it's you. I mean, Goff found a partner immediately. And Drew Brees found a partner immediately. And boy, Tom Brady had multiple guys he worked with immediately. And Joe Montana had a guy immediately.

And John Elway, by his second head coach, had a guy he worked with immediately. But folks, I know one thing. Difficult people, the richer they get, and the more famous they get, the more difficult they get. Go ask Jimmy Johnson about my friend. Marino at the end.

Go ask the guys Brad Childress who coached Farrv at the end. Go ask anybody who coached Jay Cutler at the end. Wealth and fame doesn't make difficult people easier to coach. If after 10 years, you've never had that relationship. That's almost like a guy in his late 40s who's not married. it's not everybody else. Maybe it's him. So you can keep telling me all the issues are solved now with Aaron Rogers.

And what I've said from day one about Aaron, I don't doubt for a second. He's far of Marino-level talented. But he's difficult. He is difficult. And the issues will not all be solved for this 35-year-old, twice-injured, highly expensive, doesn't want to work with newbies,

legendary guy. They're not all going to be solved. I think he'll win a bunch. I think it'll be interesting. I think he's a Hall of Famer. I say over and over, it's great to watch. But if you think everybody's solved now, come back in a couple years.

It's not. That division's never been tougher. And this is also something that I think you see in a lot of professions. I'll just speak for men. I'm not going to speak for women. When men get successful, it empowers our point of view. Like, I have a way I see the world.

The more successful I've become, it empowers the way I see the world. My way is right, right? It doesn't matter if you're a comic, a sportscaster, a quarterback. So Aaron sees football a certain way, which is I'm going to add a little out of a lot of these plays. Like, this is who I am. This is my DNA that all make it right. You can call the play, 70% of the time I'll use the play, but about 30% of the time, I'm ad-libbing out of this play. So, you know, this becomes a problem because as Aaron has been empowered, popularity, Super Bowl, Pro Bowls, money, as he's been empowered,

you know, his point of view is now stronger than it's ever been. Dan Marino had this, Brett Farve at the end. Once a guy's a legend and has trophies and a pile of money, to prove that he knows what he's doing, he just feels stronger about his worldview. And so I think this idea that you're going to bring a young guy in, I don't think that's the answer. Now, maybe you can get a young guy with a perfect personality, but remember, Josh McDaniels for New England is a young guy who's been empowered. He's got money. He's got six trips to the Super Bowl, whatever it is. So the kind of person that Aaron Rogers' personality

would demand maybe the kind of person that he would butt heads with. You know, Mike McCarthy, I could argue, is kind of the perfect guy. You know, low-key, doesn't want attention, little old school, but it's definitely, you know, he's not going to try to bulldoze Aaron Rogers. You know, you get one of these young hot shots, and they get a worldview, and Aaron's got a worldview, good luck. And the other thing is about this job is the expectations, through the roof. When Sean McVey took the Rams job,

the expectations were save Jared Gough, just saved that thing. And he did. Nobody said Super Bowl. To be honest with you, nobody even talked about playoffs. Sean McVeigh was brought in to save Jared Gough, the number one pick because he looked like he couldn't play. Matt Nagy was brought in to save Mitch Trabisky. We watched Miss Trabiski the first year.

I didn't know if he could play. So those guys come in with much lower See, nobody says this year McVeigh's got to win the Super Bowl, even now. Nobody thinks Matt Nagy's got to win the division, though he will. But the guy that comes in with Aaron Rogers, the expectations are Super Bowl or maybe you're not right either. So there's a lot of jobs out there. I talk to my coaching friends about this all the time.

Some jobs sound like they're great. USC football sounds great. But what happens when the athletic department is completely dysfunctional? Is it a great job? Pittsburgh Steelers, head coach. Ben's dramatic. A lot of baggage with Ben. Is that a good?

Cam Newton is my, what, ask Norv Turner. Four picks against, you know, Tampa Bay. A lot of jobs sound great. You want to know what a great job is? A great job's going to a place that has some good players, but hasn't really done anything. Like Houston's a great job. I got a bunch of good players.

We don't have much of a history. Ooh, I get Deshawn Watson. You win a couple of playoff games are throwing a parade for you. I don't think Green Bay is as good as job as everybody thinks. Yeah, but it's still only one of 32 NFL head coaching jobs. But they're not all equal. No, they aren't.

But, I mean, you better be somebody who has the opportunity to pass on that if you're feeling like it's not the right situation. I agree with you. You can't just look at, oh, it's a head coaching job. There's an organization. There's people above you. Yep. There's different types of fan base.

You have to come in with players that are already there that weren't picked by you or brought in by you. And now you're dealing with Aaron Rogers. You don't want to bum it, quarterback, but legends come with their own Samson. Especially this particular legend. Yeah. Michael Vicks around the corner, Trent Dillford, too. Looking for the perfect holiday gift. The original Untucket shirt, designed to be worn on tuck.

Ontucket.com code heard 20% savings. Michael Vic is joining me 13 NFL seasons for Pro Bowls, comeback player of the year, and number one pick. So Aaron Rogers is going to have Michael a new coach in your career for three or four times. You got a new coach. How long does it take between there is symmetry? You're looking at each other and you're on the same page. It takes about a good three months.

You really have to understand the intricacies of the offense and it's more detail. And then you start all over with new language. So of course there's going to be suggestions that you want. want to make changes that you want to make. Ideas may come up, things may surface. And if that coordinator, if he's coming in with a system where this is his system, but you see things that you may not like or may not be comfortable with, then you start from scratch and you have to figure out a way to, you know,

make it to everyone's liking and that the play caller can call it when you want it as a quarterback and when you want it in the game at the right time. So it's all about feel in this situation. It's very difficult. Luckily for Aaron Rogers, this only happened to him once. It happened to me three or four times. So it makes a difference in your makeup and your performance. Why was Andy Reed probably the best of your changes?

What did he do that perhaps the others didn't do as well as Andy Reid? I think Andy believed in me in the passing game. Andy, as you can see with Patrick Mahomes, Donovan McNabb, Kevin Kopp, anybody who lined up on the center, they had success. that's Andy understood what he wanted to do and what he wanted you to look like as a player. So he could step back and look at your strengths and say, okay, he's good at reading this part of the field or he's better reading down the middle. And he'll design a game plan based on that.

And I think when you get a new coach, like the situation that's going to happen with Aaron Rogers at some point, it has to be a big guy who's going to come in and look at Aaron Rogers and be able to use his skill. along with being able to call plays that's going to be innovative, exciting, and make the offense look different. But you and Aaron both had a strong point of view. What if Aaron's like, I mean, do you think Aaron's better with a young hot shot or an old veteran? See, when I was thinking about this opportunity that's going to rise for him, I'm thinking Andy will be a great coach for a guy like Aaron Rogers,

because look at what he's done with Patrick Mahomes. And Aaron Rogers and Patrick Mahomes have the same type of ability, strong arm. They can move. They can manipulate the pocket. But you don't want to overcoach him. But you don't want to overcoach him. So a young guy may come in and you don't want a guy who's going to be intimidated by him. That's key. Yes, it's going to be very key. But a guy I think

maybe like Sean McVeigh, who will be so offensive-minded that he'll get the respect from Aaron Rogers very, very quickly. It's interesting. You played with Big Ben for a year and they've had a, every game they play in Crazy Town. Yeah. I mean, win, lose. It's all Crazy Town. It's very

interesting, Big Ben you once told me is different than other quarterbacks you've played with. Like you said his audibles are simple. Like why? I mean, when I watch him you've just always said it was different around Big Ben. Why? It was just greatness. I mean, I

could see why he had won two Super Bowls. Why he had won so many games over the course of his career with various offensive coordinators. But it's pretty much Big Ben and he sets the tone for the offense during the week. He comes in, he figures out what he likes and what he don't like during the week if it's a play

that just didn't click too well. He'll take it out. He'll take it out. And Ben had the uncanny ability to just take the game over himself. And I always thought that was big. And I've seen it as a sign of greatness. And even at 11, 12 years in the league, when I was there, I was looking at like, man, if I can go back and do it all over, I would try to do it like Big Ben.

Was he tough to coach? He wasn't tough at all, and he didn't need a lot of coaching. I mean, he just needed advice. Advice. Yes, like, okay, Ben, here's the coverages that you're going to see. What do you like? Ben will sit there, he'll jot things down. He'll watch film for about 30, 40 minutes.

He'll talk a little bit, and then he'll move on, and he'll go out on the field, and he'll execute it, and then things may come up, and he'll change the play. You know, I think that's why there's so many different moving parts of this team, and it changes week to week as we see. one of the guys that is terrific, but you had questions about him. I remember you didn't love Deshaun Watson out of college. Yeah.

You thought he was, I think, a system quarterback. Yeah. What did you doubt and what are you seeing? What do you make of his rise? Well, I think what he's doing right now is phenomenal. And I didn't doubt whether he would be a good pro quarterback. I just questioned, could somebody find the right system that would sort of. suit his style of play. And he landed in the right hands with Bill O'Brien. The offense

looks nothing like it looked in Clemson because I just thought he may be a product of the system. Sure. And you can see why. Because, you know, it was all shotgun. It wasn't any under the center. And now you see him under the center, play action, got a good running game. I mean, he's just doing things that I didn't think he could do. Yeah. Prove me wrong. And I'm glad that he was able to do that because the Texans found the quarterback. Yeah. He did the same thing at Clemson as he's done at Houston. Really good roster, and he just took it on his shoulders. So I'm going to take you about 15% higher. We're going to win these close games, not lose them. New England last night. I said this. They remind me like, you drink, you're not a coffee drinker, are you?

Occasion. Okay. So I go to Starbucks or Peets. I like Peets. A good business, everywhere I go to Pete's. If I go to a Pete's in Atlanta, if I go to a Pete's in L.A. Assistant? It's the same thing. When I watch New England, Mike, every game looks the exact same. If you in your prime would have been with Belichick, I wonder, would you have been bored with this? It's so much about precision. It always looks the same, regardless of the personnel that's on the field. It's a thing of beauty to be able to watch Tom Brady and Bill Belichick year after year be so consistent. And you put anybody in the lineup and these guys are going to get it done. I think it's a mindset.

I think they're very intelligent. And what's the difference between Tom Brady and Bill Belichick from the other 31 teams in the league that had multiple coaching firings and offensive coordinators are getting fired and defensive coordinator is getting fired? Why are they able to do it over and over again time and time again? Because they literally drive to work every day and they know what their teammates and coaches are thinking. It's a well-run business. It's a well-run business.

and that's why they're so tough to be. I mean, I look at the New England Patriots every year like they're going to be contending in the Super Bowl. And that's just because of what they've been able to prove over and over again season after season. Finally, Lamar Jackson. He's better than I thought. Better than I thought.

But I knew he was good. I just thought in a pro football set, the NFL setting. You know, when the hashes get tighter, things might not be as efficient. When you say hashes get tighter, what does that mean in my audience? Because in college, you got the wide hashes. So, you know, you can stretch the field and you can use your speed. I did it.

You know, I basically killed it in college. And Lamar did the same thing. The only thing I thought about him falling into the right hands. And Marty Morningwick has done a great job with this kid. You had Marty. Yeah, I had Marty. And Marty understands what it takes to make a running quarterback successful. And I will say this.

You and Lamar are not huge athletes like a Ben. Yeah. Like Andrew Luck is. big. Right, right, right. Small a stature. Do you worry that Lamar running around gets tagged once or twice? Well, I like what they're doing right now.

I like the fact that Lamar is doing what he needs to do to win football games. I like the fact that Marty is structuring the offense around him and taking advantage of his talents. Because look, they sort of in dire straits right now. They got to win every game. Right. It's critical. But, you know, I do worry that, you know, he may take on too much. you know, he may get hit too much down the stretch,

but they got to do what they got to do. And, you know, as he gets older, it'll get more difficult. But the most important thing is him finding a way to take care of his body week in and week out. Yeah. When you first came into the league, you admitted you were just having fun. You were running around. And he didn't really think much about the body thing.

Right. And then somebody tagged you. Yeah. And then you were sore for a month and you're like, I've got to figure this thing out. It made me want structure. I wanted to evolve as a passer so that my running game could just become an asset. Me taking off and scrambling for 15 yards can be something that happens periodically throughout the game. But for the most part, I'm 80% pass, 20% run.

I really wanted it to be that way and I worked extremely hard. And I always stressed that to Jim Moore, Greg Knapp, who I had early in my career in Atlanta, and just felt like, you know, if I can evolve as a passer, I'll be a better asset to my time. team. Good senior, bud. Get on that plane. Good senior. Are you flying to Fort Lauderdale or Atlanta? Fort Lauderdale. All right. Here I come. Here I come. Thanks, Mike. Joy with the news. No, no, no,

Turn on the news. This is the Herd Line News. So those Packers, they were supposed to win yesterday against the Cardinals by a lot. They were double-digit favorites. Instead, they lost 20 to 17, and Mike McCarthy was fired shortly after that. Offensive coordinator, Joe Philbin,

will take over as interim coach, and it's pretty obvious now that you're once hot take is pretty accurate that Aaron Rogers and Mike McCarthy had some issues. They went on the same page. And former Packer, Mark Chimera, believes that Aaron should have a lot more of the blame. Aaron is not going to come out of this looking good. Aaron might be happy, but Aaron, to me, looks like the prima donna basketball player in the NBA that wants his coach fired.

And there were rumblings last week because I listened to a lot of the national media that we're saying that Aaron Rogers is difficult to coach, whether that's because he's smart or whatever the case may be. He's not going to come out of this looking. He may be happy, but I don't think he comes out of this looking good. He got his coach fired. I agree. I don't know that he's coming out of it looking good or bad.

I think time will have to tell if that's what happens. Well, I think it's the first time the Golden Boy has got a little pushback from the media. Yes, no, that is true. He's definitely getting pushed back now, as he should. It's not all on the coach. he is the one that's out there having to execute it. And if you get all the praise for carrying the team when they're great, you have to get the criticism for when they're bad.

That's how it works. But I think more long-term, whoever they bring in, is clearly going to be someone that Aaron Rogers agrees to work with. Yes. And it better work. Now, I'm fine with moving on from Mike McCarthy. I think after a while something just becomes stale and you need an infusion of energy or a new goal or a new system

or just something to change it up. Because obviously this isn't working. You can't get rid of Aaron Rogers. So really, what choices did the Packers have? I know everyone feels like, okay, you can't fire someone like Mike McCarthy. What do you do? I mean, it's the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

It's not going to evolve any more than it already has. So we'll see. Time will tell. Lamar Jackson's development as an NFL passer is a work in progress. He completed 12 with 21 passes for 125 yards against the Falcons. But he also did some running too. He carried the ball 17 times for 75 yards and a touchdown. And after the game, John Harbaugh was asked.

if he had done enough to remain the starter. He's done enough, sure. Oh, absolutely. He's done enough. I mean, he's played great. He's three and no. He's played well. You know, what way we'll go, what direction we'll go.

We'll see. There will be no quarterback controversy in our locker. Our guys want to win. They know all three guys can win. And whatever way we decided to go, it's only going to be to make our team is the strongest it can be. You know, maybe we play them all three.

Maybe we play one of them. I mean, I don't know. We'll figure it out. By the way, winning NFL game, is really hard, and they're 3-0 with Lamar. Don't mess with it. I don't want, I mean, you're going to play all three? No, not interested.

I think he said that for PR at the day as per, you know, he didn't want to just play Lamar. That's just, that's a terrifying concept. Lamar has some limitations as a rookie. Joe Flacco has limitations. He's not accurate. Listen, you just said it. You're winning.

Don't mess with it. If it goes south, it's just like the situation, I mean, obviously it was a little bit more dysfunctional, but this is a situation with Ryan Fitzpatrick and James Winston. Like, he's winning. If it turns into a disaster, you put Joe Flacco back in. But don't change it up while it's working. Finally, Tom Brady holds lots of records in NFL history. He's won more Super Bowls than any quarterback. He's one more games in any quarterback, and he's the NFL's all-time leading passer. And he had a specific goal this year to finish his career with 1,000 rushing yards. And a five-yard game yesterday against the Vikings made that happens.

and that threshold was, though, at risk during the final kneel down. We have video of that. Brady dropped back a couple yards and kneeled. He had gone right back. He would have been under 1,000 rushing yards. So he crept right up to the line and kneeled it for no yards to clinch the victory and save the mile mark. He did not keep the ball, though, because he's Brady.

And that's just, you know, he just has enough of those NFL history balls. But we know that Brady is not a rusher. No. And if you look at some of the other quarterbacks, Michael Vick that we just had on, like the games, the amount of games that it took to reach this thousand yard mark. Yeah. It's kind of funny. So it took Michael Vick 22, Cam Newton 23, Russell 31,

Josh McCown, 91, and it took Tom Brady 265 games. Yeah, his time's yards per carry isn't very impressive. No, to reach a thousand rushing yards. but no one's ever accused him of being a running quarterback. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd line news.

Okay, I want to go to my guy, Trent Dilfer, decade and a half, a Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, joining us via the Coward Global Satellite Network. All right, what kind of coach does Aaron Rogers need, Trent? I think that's a coach that has a lot of sophistication.

A coach that can, actually match him. A coach is going to work as hard as him and invest as much into their offense being creative. A coach is going to make his job easier. And I think that's the crux of this whole thing is that if you go back and look at Aaron Rogers' career, going back to Cal where Jeff Petford coached him, he was very coachable. Get Jeff on the show. Jeff will tell he's as coachable as any player he's ever had. But he pushed the coaching staff every single day to bring their best stuff. When he first got to Green Bay and he was back, he was back. He was back. out Brett Barb. One of the friction points between Brett and him was Aaron wanted to be coached.

Aaron wanted to be, he wanted to grow as a player. He wanted to inspire the scout team that he was running. He wanted to enhance his game. So he was hard to coach in the sense that he demanded a lot, but he wanted to be coached. His first few years as a starter. That staff was on edge. McCarthy was still heavenly involved in the offense. It was creative. It was cutting edge. It did allow him to do his job the best. And Aaron was very coachable and very engaged. And then this last four to five years, and we talked about the other place, Colin, this isn't new news. It might be new news to some people. This is old news to me and you.

We knew four and five years ago there was real friction there. There was some stuff that Aaron didn't feel as if that coaching staff was as invested as much as he was. That was giving him and his offense the best stuff each week. And now it culminates in Mike McCarthy getting fire. So to answer your question, it needs to be somebody that can come in there and say, hey, Aaron, Number one, I'm the head flipping coach. And my job is to get the most from the least and the best from the best. And most of this group is the least.

But the best is you. And I'm going to demand the best from you, but I'm also going to give you new tools to be more successful. And that's all McVeigh does. That's all McDaniels does. That's all Sean Payton does to this day is they try to get the most from the least and the best from the best. And when it comes to getting the best from the best, it takes a certain amount of intellectual property. it takes a certain amount of creativity to help that quarterback make that job a little bit easier than it is. Steelers Chargers, I swear to God, every Pittsburgh game, they give everything emotionally.

There are no easy games. They're all dramatic. I said they're like the housewives of New York City. They're flipping over tables and throwing champagne at each other at lunch. I mean, doesn't that take a toll on the Steelers after a while? Every game comes down to the final play. You've been on teams that were in blowouts and close games. Can you just keep playing like this emotional level through the playoffs? Drama creates inconsistency. Lack of drama creates consistency. I'm sure we're going to segue at some point and talk to your love buttons, the Patriots.

And they lack drama, therefore they're consistent. The Steelers are inconsistent because there's always drama around whatever they're doing. Even their head coach who tries to be so stoic and tries to be so stuic, and tries to be so stern. He creates drama with some of his commentary. So they create drama. They're inconsistent on the field. The great teams, be college or pro,

they try to eliminate every aspect of drama because they know that it will turn into consistency between the lines. And I'm watching New England last night. I said I could take that game from last night and replace it with one from six years ago, and it looks the exact same. They do the same thing. They take away your weapon.

Very few penalties, no fumbles. They're good situationally. their pass rush is inconsistent, but always seems to be pretty good in a big third down. What do you make of their consistency? Well, forever they've mitigated risk, right? They've taken risk out of the equation. They're like a great investor. I have a lot of very, very wealthy friends that are great investors.

And those great investors don't take on risk. They're actually very careful with risk. But they'll out vet the things they're researching to invest in. They'll do more research. We'll talk to more people, and they'll take just steady gains. And I think that's what the Patriots do, is that they take all the big risk out of it. They're going to outwork their opponent. They're going to vet their opponent a little bit better.

And they're going to say, hey, we'll take small little margins over and over and over, week after week, year after year, and know that that's going to lead to victories. That we're going to be sitting pretty thin. We're never going to put too much out there on the table. We're never going to risk too much that we may get exposed. That's what they do offensively. That's what they do defensively. That's nice game plan against, um, against,

I'm sorry, yesterday's game playing at Minnesota was as simple as you could possibly be. Play really soft or come up and blitz everybody. Play really soft or come up and blitz everybody. I mean, it was that way all game long. That's as simple as it gets. But they knew that when they blitzed everybody, it would force on a fourth and 11 for the ball to come out at two yards. They know that on first and second down, they want to play action, push the ball 15, 20 yards down the field. They weren't to give up those plays.

So they know you better than know yourself. That takes away the risk. and they're just going to be willing to take steady gains over and over and over. The team that you like before the year, and you said this a couple of months ago, the Chargers are the best team in Los Angeles. Lord, Derwin James could be rookie of the year. Physically, I mean, that second half was unbelievable offensively. Philip Rivers, after the game, was talking like he was 23 years old.

His energy is unbelievable. I mean, you must, that was a tip of the cap to you. They were exactly in the second half. what you said about what did you spot two months ago? They were Patriots in the second half. They played Patriots type football, if that's even a word. They came out, they made huge half-time adjustments, especially in the run game.

In the run game, they went to a spread offensive run game, giving the ball to the back, offset from the whole he was attacking. They forced him to a personnel group and they wanted him in. They play actioned off that. They threw the ball underneath the Keenan Allen. They made great adjustments. what they did more than the else, would they just executed.

And we use that words a lot with New England. We don't use it a lot with a lot of other teams. They just came out and for one half of football, executed to the highest, highest, highest level you possibly could. Pittsburgh didn't give them that game. Fendon fumble it around. They didn't throw it to the chart. They didn't, the Pittsburgh didn't make a ton of mistakes.

They just got outplayed, out executed. It felt very much like watching a second half of a Patriots in a big game. Yeah. By the way, I still think New Orleans is the best. team in the league? Who do you think? I don't disagree that. Okay.

I still think they're the best team in the league. It's funny. It's all that kind of, you know, Rams, Patriots, Chiefs, I kind of feel this, I haven't talked to you since the cowboy thing on Thursday night. Do you feel differently about Dallas or do you think they're still kind of a low-ceiling team? I still think they're a low-ceiling team. I think they're very good.

And I said that when I first made that comment that they're a high-floor low-ceiling team. I think they're going to make the playoffs and they're going to win their division. But I don't think, and they might even make their full. first playoff game interesting, but I don't think we can talk about them as a championship football team. I think he's talking about championship teams. You're talking about the Patriots, chargers, maybe chiefs in the AFC, NFC, NFC, Rams Saints. Yeah. I would have put the Steelers in that conversation a few weeks ago, but again, that drama, that inconsistency gives me pause.

I think this time of year, we need to change the conversation between who's good and who can be great. And there are certain indicators when you're looking at teams that have the chance to be great. Quarterbacks obviously won, play football or quarterback relationship, but critical downstops on defense, the ability to get off the field, holding teams to field goals, end a half, end a game. Look at the teams that play great, end a half, end of game. Those will probably be the teams that are playing in the Super Bowl. Great stuff. Decade and a half in the NFL, a Super Bowl, Pro Bowl, Trent Dill for good stuff, buddy. Thanks, brother. Coming up next, the three-word game, every NFL game can be explained in just three words.

One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Hurd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Thursday, Marcus Marriota and the Titans look to keep their playoff hopes alive against the Jaguars. It all starts at 730 Eastern on Fox NFL network and streaming on Prime Video. All right, let's not waste any time. In our best for last, it's the three-word NFL game. can describe every NFL game in three words. Here we go. Saints, Cowboys, Cowboys for real. They're seven and five. They've won four straight. First place in the NFC East. I know their love,

hate. That's the best front seven, in my opinion, right now in the NFL with the best linebacking duo, Cowboys for Real. Cardinals Packers. Happy birthday, Aaron. He turned 35 yesterday, and I don't think he's a young 35. He has two shoulder surgeries. And Mike McCarthy is the first Packer coach to ever be fired in season. I don't think it solves Green Bay's issues. I think it creates new ones. He is sort of an interesting mix is errand of arrogance, talent, aloof, and difficulty. Ravens Falcons, Lamar keeps winning. They're currently a six seed. They're hot. He's on a three-game winning streak. And frankly, when I watched Atlanta against Lamar Jackson yesterday, some of that stuff, they just don't know what he's going to do. The element of surprise in football is a real

thing. And the Ravens with Lamar right now, Flacco had his strengths, but was predictable. Lamar has his weaknesses, but he's unpredictable. Bears' Giants, best quarterback, O'Dell. O'Dell now has two 40-yard touchdown passes this season. Eli Manning has zero. Yep, he had a 49-yarder yesterday to Russell Shepard in the third quarter. That's two on the year. I've got to be honest. It kind of had a Nerf football field to it.

Backyard football, but it was fun. Colts, Jaguars, luck ran out. The first shutout of Andrew Luck's career. I've said this. He is carrying a good, not a great offense. Two of their best offensive linemen are rookies. They don't have a number two receiver. They have a series of C plus B minus running backs.

And on their big plays early yesterday, penalties negated the play. Brown's Texans, not so dangerous. Yeah, Baker didn't wake up dangerous Sunday. He threw three picks in the first half. At one point, he had interceptions on back-to-back plays. Listen, he still had moments. I still contend he throws a great football from the pocket, and he had a couple of beautiful throws,

one to Callaway, who fumbled it later. But in the end, just because you have a couple of weeks' success against Atlanta and Cincinnati's defense baker, keep the noise down, don't be gasoline, be a fire extinguisher. Bill's Dolphins, I didn't watch. Listen, I have to make choices. Every week I have to make choices. I didn't watch that game.

Vikings Patriots, surprisingly, never a game. Vikings only scored three points in the second half. They averaged about five yards of pass completion. The Patriots do what they always do. They take away your number one weapon. They take away your fastball, Adam Thielen, five catches 28 yards, and what do you have after that? Kirk Cousins and not much else.

Rams Lions, first two clinch. Yep. 11 and 1, clinched the NFC West for the second straight year. By the way, they're currently one game ahead of the Saints at 10 and 2, 11 and 1 and 10 and 2, in hosting playoff games throughout. Now, the Saints beat him head to head would have a tiebreaker, but if they win out the Rams, all those playoff games in sunny Los Angeles. Panthers, Buccaneers, not super, man.

Cam through four picks. That is the most since his rookie season. And it should be noted that you're talking about the 27th best defense in Tampa Bay in the NFL. He took unnecessary risks yesterday. This one's on cam. I've called him for years, roller coaster cam. Moody people become moody players. This isn't good enough in your eighth year in the NFL.

Broncos bagels making their case, as in case Keenham. Listen, they are right on the Baltimore Ravens' tale. teams peak at different times. In the last three weeks, they've beaten the Chargers, they've beaten the Steelers, and they thumped Cincinnati. Keep your eye on Denver. Chiefs Raiders, Silver, and Wacked. Raiders 2 and 10 become the first team in the NFL, eliminated from the playoffs. Now, I don't think that's terrible news.

I think the Raiders want to go heavy in the draft, although Gruden doesn't have a history of being a great drafter. Jets Titans, Jets hiding Darnold. Okay, he had a sprain foot. He said two weeks ago the foot was fine and Sam Darnold's still not playing. It is real obvious what the Jets are doing. They're telling you, our offensive personnel is the pits. We're not putting Sam Darnold out there. Sam Darnold played linebacker in high school.

This is an incredibly tough kid. And the Jets don't want him to take a beating like Josh Rosen. the Cardinals do this, by the way. They won't let Rosen pass even when they trail by three touchdowns. 49ers Seahawks rinse and repeat Seattle now, number five in the NFC. Russell Wilson is having a year. Do you realize Wilson has the best passer rating in the NFL since week three? It's got the second best passer rating in NFL history. Maybe it's because he's 5-11. He plays the position differently. Good Lord is this guy magic. By the way, Richard Sherman tried to goad him.

He didn't buy it. Russell Wilson had one of his best games in what could have been a chatty, cocky week. He didn't bite any of Richard Sherman's quotes. Chargers, Steelers, Offsides, Offsides, Offsides. Last play of the game, Steelers off sides three times. They were trying to throw off the Chargers kicker, Michael. Bagley, who missed his first field goal, had the second one blocked, and so they are trying to get him, instead of a timeout, not only timeouts to freeze him. They're trying to get off-sides and get

into his head, and he missed the first, but they were off-sides. He made the second they were off-sides, and they were off-sides again the third time, and he made that kick, too. And finally, tonight Redskins Eagles, one last chance, Eagles currently ninth in the NFC, they got to win tonight, because the remaining games for Philadelphia at the Cowboys, at the Rams, Texans, and the Redskins. So if they do not win tonight,

it's over. So Philadelphia, 9th in the NFC, really on the outside looking at. Too many injuries, not dangerous enough on the outside. It's kind of a, it's a reboot year. Have a nice offseason, reboot it, get healthy, get another wide receiver and free agency or draft one.

The herd brought to you by Geico, been saving people money on cars for 75 years. They keep it simple. They know what they're doing, want to save money. Go to Geico.com. Tomorrow, Andrew Whitworth of the Rams. Best offensive tackle maybe in football plus the herd hierarchy. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves.

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Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of

stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast. podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was primed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to him, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.