The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Patriots, Browns, trade deadline, NFL stats, and the Herd hierarchy

Episode Date: October 30, 2018

Colin discusses the legacy of the New England Patriots, why the NFL is so difficult, what probably got former Cleveland Browns HC Hue Jackson fired, NFL stats that are improving, the trade deadline, and the Herd hierarchy. Guests include Chris Broussard, Dustin Fox, Albert Breer, and Tony Gonzalez. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to her, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast.

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I love all of it except for this clown guy behind you. I know people are freaking out. I'm really not into clowns. Yeah, yeah, I get that. I totally get that. You know, last night would be easy for the New England Patriots to mail it in. I mean, we saw Green Bay at home as a huge favorite over the Niners get outplayed. We saw Minnesota at home, huge favorite over Buffalo get waxed.

We saw the Saints at Home big favorite struggle against the Cleveland Brown. but New England can win these games with their eyes closed. By the way, there's a reason you don't see a lot of 70-year-old roofers in Arizona. That's not a career that's supposed to last long. There's a reason you don't see a lot of 70-year-old guys on oil derricks outside of Louisiana. That career's not supposed to last 50 years. You can be a podiatrist, a baker, a veterinarian for a long time, a sports writer for a long time. The fact that the Patriots dynasty continues is unbelievable.

This is not supposed to be this way in professional football. Here's how long this thing has lasted. Ladani and Tomlinson got drafted in 2001. The same year the dynasty started. He played his entire career, then retired, then waited the mandatory five years, and was voted into the Hall of Fame, and it's still going. I mean, the guy was drafted, the guy played, the guy waited, got it inducted to the Hall of Fame, and the thing's still going. It's incredible.

Basketball, dynasties, and basketball, pro basketball go hand in hand. Dynasties in football don't last this long. First of all, there's the injury component. Guys get hurt. In the NFL, Gronk hurt, Edelman hurt, Hightower hurt. They've had great players hurt in the playoffs, miss the playoffs, miss Super Bowls. What if Durant and Curry couldn't play in an NBA finals? So in the NFL, you have random and regular injuries to star players, and the Patriots have had

him for 18 years. No effect. I mean, last night, James White, they made him their best receiver. And Corderel Patterson, wide receiver, they made their best running back. They just invent new ways to win. They never play down to opponents. I mean, in football, if you have a bad quarter, you lose. the game. You're out of the playoffs. In football, an unlucky break, a tip pass that becomes an

interception. You lose. You're out of the playoffs. In football, a bad call in the fourth quarter, you're out of the playoffs. You should be out of the playoffs, even if you're a better team all the time. In the NBA, a bad quarter, who cares? It's a seven-game playoff series. An unlucky tip pass? We'll make it up tomorrow in game four. A bad officiating call? That's game two of this series. the NBA also is not a coaches sport. Okay. The NFL is a coach's sport. That's why they pay football coaches in Boise more than they pay the Yankee manager or the Atlanta Hawks coach.

Football is a coaching sport. And the minute you win the Super Bowl, your coaches leave. Your assistants leave, your coordinators leave. Philadelphia lost its best two offensive guys. Go ask Philadelphia. Go ask the Giants. Go ask the Steelers. It's hard to get back.

Go ask Drew Breeze. Go ask Peyton Manning. Even if you got the quarterback right, you're losing your best coordinators. You're losing your players to injuries. Tip passes, bad breaks, bad calls. It's a one and done. It's March Madness. Bad quarter.

Bad eight-minute stretch. You're done. You're out. Bad break. Bad call. And the dynasties aren't supposed to last this long. This is unbelievable. I mean, there are no 70-year-old rooferes in Arizona.

That's not a career that's supposed to last that long. There are no 70-year-old guys in oil derricks in Louisiana. I mean, in the NFL, you win your division. They make your schedule tougher the next year. Doesn't work that way in the NBA. It doesn't work that way in college football. Doesn't work that way in college basketball. Doesn't work that way in hockey.

It doesn't work that way in baseball. In football, you win your division. Let's give them a tougher first place schedule. I mean, it's just incredible what's happening right now. Here's how long this dynasty has lasted. The New England dynasty has been going on so long. It started before the Houston Texans were a team. LaDadian Tolenton's entire career, drafted, played, weighted, Hall of Fame.

It's still going. No signs of slowing. And it's not supposed to work this way. Last night was a classic opportunity to stumble. And they didn't. Of course, they didn't. Here's a story on the Browns that's interesting. Baker Mayfield, who I've been critical of, won't exactly miss Hugh Jackson.

According to stories, Mayfield didn't love Hugh Jackson. You know, you can tell the same story two different ways. I will argue that hard knocks got Hugh Jackson fired, not the two, five and one record. You can spin that two, five, and one record a lot of different ways. If you didn't see Hugh Jackson's ego on display, you could spin it like, hey, we're a legitimate field goal kicker from 4 and 4. You could spin it that, hey, this thing, we were 0.16 last year with a rookie quarterback, Steelers twice, Ravens, Chargers, Saints, we're 2.5 and 1. But remember the hard knocks moment with Hugh Jackson. These reality shows are divorce magnets.

They make nobody looks good in these reality shows. Des Bryant was on an Amazon reality show. Can't get work. Look like a crazy person. Nobody looks good in a reality show. Remember this, hard knocks a few months ago? Our team has to get mentally tougher and be able to fight through the shit that we've got to fight through. We've got to change this drastically.

And if we got guys that haven't done shit sitting around doing nothing, you know, I just don't know how we're going to do it. Well, I respect you saying that. I mean, I used to sit in the same chair. Let me finish. Let me finish. I used to sit in the same chair as you guys sat in. And I used to feel the same way. I just want to kill them, okay?

Until all of a sudden, I sat in this chair, and then they're not there. Say it again. But the chair I sit in, a little different in the chair you guys sit in. I get to watch from a different lens. I'll talk me a long time ago. You know, what is it that I'll give it to me? If you're a team, you do whatever the hell you want. If you're a team, you do it the hell you want.

Okay, so this one's mine. So that's just the way it's going to be. So you see that ego, and then when you see it resurfaced in eight weeks, you're like, Oh, hard. If you don't see that with hard knocks, you can spin two, five, and one a lot of different ways. By the way, with Andrew Luck, the cults are three and five,

and there's nothing but optimism. That's with Andrew Luck. Three and five, arguably in a worst division with Andrew Luck, nothing but optimism, because you don't see Frank Reich's ego. He's not on hard knocks. Okay?

The Jets, what are they like, three and five? The Jets, Todd Bulls, quiet. You never see him. You never hear from him. He's understated. Respectful, quiet, no ego. Jets are three and five? There's nothing but optimism. We just got to get Sam Darnold players. The Colts and the Jets with quiet, understated coaches who don't go on hard knocks, who don't show the ego. Everybody's like optimistic. Yet with a rookie quarterback, you face Drew Brees, Flacco, Rivers, Ben twice, or two, five, and one. And everybody's like, whoa, man overboard.

Even the Brown's owner yesterday when he made the move, listen to this. It's hard to win in the NFL. If anybody knows that, it's us. And I think the message today is we're not going to put up with internal discord. That we want people who are collaborative and work together. So you want people who are collaborative and work together, but yet Greg Williams is your guy now? yelling, screaming, Greg Williams is your guy now. Longtime guy that in New Orleans paid players to hurt other players.

Bountygate guy. He's the uniter. Really? We want people who unite people. Greg Williams can't keep a job. He's a screamer. He's a yeller. He's paying guys to hurt other guys.

That's a uniter? I'm telling you, reality TV shows, if they call you, hang the phone up. Well, unfortunately, they don't have a choice. I know. I get picked for hard knocks. But I think if you do get picked and you know that this is what's a possible outcome to the situation, you just have to fake your way through it. People are not meant to be videotaped all the time. In your house, at your work, we all have bad moments.

We all lose our temper. We all say silly stuff. You try to perform when the camera's around, even if you're kind of an authentic person, you feel like. You got to perform. It's almost better if you do perform because if you forget the cameras there, that's kind of when it becomes problematic. But you could spin two, five and one a lot of ways. But Frank Reich, quiet, understated, they're three and five with Andrew Luck in a bad division.

Everybody's like, love Frank Reich and the way we're headed. Sam Donald's Man Overboard, 3-5 Todd Bulls, understated, quiet, professional. Not a peep, optimistic. This is Man Overboard? You can spin two, five, and one. I could make an argument. Let me just, can I just throw a name out to you? I'm going to throw out a very interesting name for this Brown's job.

I haven't heard it mentioned anywhere. And I think you're going to be shocked. I'm going to do that in the other side. He's a current NFL coach. He's a top NFL coach. And I don't think he's going to have a job in four months. That's next. In L.A., it's The Herb.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. By the way, I saw the names floated yesterday for the Cleveland Brown job, and some of them are just idiotic. And there's a name that's completely missing. First of all, here are the odds to be the next full-time Browns coach. Bill Belichick, idiotic.

Jim Harbaugh would not leave Michigan for Cleveland. Idiotic. Sean McVeigh is going to leave the Rams. Really? Jared Goff, Gurley, richest owner in the NFL. He is now going to leave that for Cleveland. That's ridiculous. Here's the name that's not on there, and I can't believe it's not on there,

and it makes a ton of sense, and it's good for everybody. Mike McCarthy of the Packers is not on that list. How's Mike McCarthy agree? First of all, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rogers have a, at best, frosty relationship. McCarthy has worked with Rogers and Favre. He can deal with ego. Baker's got an ego. He can deal with personality.

Baker's got a personality. He's dealt with Favre and Rogers. Okay, John Dorsey runs Cleveland. Where was he before Kansas City? Green Bay. Who was there? Mike McCarthy. By the way, Alonzo Highsmith is now the vice president in charge of

personnel for Cleveland. Where was he before that? Along with Elliot Wolf, also in the front of us. Green Bay. You got all these connections between the Packers. Listen, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rogers, it's time. I'm not blaming anybody. that relationship's coming to the end.

Once Aaron signed that massive contract, there's going to be more pressure on Aaron to win games. Aaron is worn out. Not all, Pat Riley used to say this all the time. Not all relationships. After about 10 years, players tune out coaches' voices. Every 10 years, Pat Riley said, you need to get another job.

After 10 years, Aaron's just tuned out a lot of Mike McCarthy. By the way, Mike McCarthy's at fault too. He can be old school and rigid. Aaron's a little more progressive and adaptable. So you got the California cool guy and the guy that looks like the Milwaukee Police Sergeant and they're one guy's old school, one guy's new school, and they're just done with each other. And I'm not blaming anybody. Mike McCarthy is a good coach.

Aaron's a great quarterback. But I cannot believe that name's not on the board. John Dorsey's an old school guy that knows McCarthy an old school coach. They're a perfect fit. And this roster is good enough to win. This is a good roster in Cleveland. Baker's not quite ready yet to be a star, but it's a good roster. They got players.

They got a pass rusher, a couple of good backs, a star-wide receiver. I mean, they got a world-class young corner. Denzel Ward could be a pro bowler. They got players here. So if you got Belichick's name on that list, that's idiotic. Sean McVehan Harbaugh? Those guys are not. Those guys are winning in great places.

If Harbaugh comes back to the NFL, if it's not going to be for dysfunctional Cleveland. Belichick hates Cleveland. He'd never, yeah, I'm going to leave Kraft for Jimmy Haslam. I'm going to leave Brady for Baker. I mean, honestly, was this done by a couple of drunk poker players in Vegas? Who put these odds up? Mike McCarthy, to me, let me shift to this, too. Everybody says Lincoln Riley.

Listen, I think Lincoln Riley's really good coach, Oklahoma coach. Let me just throw this out to you. Okay. Steven Spielberg is good for every actor's career. But that doesn't mean many actors can elevate Stephen Spielberg's career. Takes a special actor. Okay, Lincoln Riley, all his quarterbacks are good. How do we know that Lincoln Riley looks at Baker Mayfield and goes,

yeah, that's who I'd want is my NFL quarterback? He probably looks at Russell Wilson. He probably looks at Aaron Rogers, Carson Wentz. I mean, Lincoln Riley has obviously been great for Baker's career. Baker was a walk-on, couldn't get a starting scholarship. How do we know that Baker is so great for Lincoln Riley's career, especially in the NFL? Kyler Murray is the new quarterback at Oklahoma. Through eight games compare Baker last year to this new kid, Kyler Murray?

Kyler Murray's numbers are better. A much better athlete, much better scrambler, and his passing yards, and his passing numbers are slightly better. Lincoln Riley would never say it publicly. Kyleor Murray may be a better fit for him in college than Baker. Every quarterback Lincoln Riley's had in his entire coaching career, they're all stars. Lincoln Riley's a smart guy. How do we know he looks at Baker and goes, that's the guy I want to tie my career to? Hell, the kid he's got right now is performing better than Baker did.

Baker's just more well-known. He's a superstar. He's got a big personality. So you remember when Pete Carroll went to the NFL, Pete Carroll helped every USC football players. career. But Pete Carroll didn't draft a lot of Trojans when he got the Seahawks job. There weren't a lot of Trojans that could help his NFL career. In fact, he took Earl Thomas a safety for Texas over Taylor Mays, who was a safety at USC. And people are like, whoa. Remember, Spielberg helps every actor's career. Very few actors elevate Spielberg. I don't think Lincoln Riley necessarily

looks at Baker and thinks, all right, I'm going to give up one of the best jobs in college sports and tie myself to Baker. He may look at the NFL like the rest of us do and think, yeah, I'd rather have this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy. I'd rather have golf. I'd rather have Wentz. I'd rather have luck. I'd rather have Deshawn Watson than Baker.

And I'm sure Lincoln Rowley, a smart guy, looks at that and thinks, yeah, Baker was great for me here. But I'm pretty good with this Kyler Murray guy. And the numbers bear it out. Here's Joy with the News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News.

All right, so let's just continue with that. an online betting service gave Sean McVeigh the best odds to end up as the Browns next head coach. Why would McVeigh leave the Rams for the Browns? That's a natural question. Because he's from Ohio? What does that mean? I don't know. I don't know.

Well, naturally, McVeigh was asked about it, and here was his answer. I couldn't be happier to be here with our players, with this organization. We're going for a great owner and Mr. Cronkey. Unless they decide they want to make a change, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. who would? Especially. God. Especially Cleveland.

No offense to the rounds, but you don't have the best track record as a recent of job lung gently. Stan Cronky, as of this morning, I think Paul Allen, the late Paul Allen was the richest owner. I think Stan Cronky is today. And he's also a total hands-off owner who everybody, he shows up to practice like one day a week for an hour. And they got a new stadium so their revenues are going to be through the roof. And by the way, if you look at the offseason, anybody McBay asked for, Stan Cronkey, paid for. I mean, it's like he's the

best owner right now in sports that nobody talks about. It's cronky. He'll buy any player, no pushback, no meddling, and he's actually not a hermit, but socially, he's hiding constantly. He doesn't want to be in the news. Well, I think honestly, if Sean McVeigh

were to do this, the Browns should be a little concerned because there's no reason. There's no logical reason why you would want to do that. Everything you just said is so blatantly obvious. He won coach of the year honors in his first season, and of course the Rams are undefeated. Brown's not quite in the same

situation. Anyway, so that's just strange. So Ty Montgomery made possibly the worst mistake of his career on Sunday when he decided to take a kickoff out of the end zone with less than two minutes remaining and his packers down by two against those Rams and Aaron Rogers has done more with less, but of course he fumbled

and gave away their chance to come back and his teammates had some skating quotes for NFL Networks, Michael Silver. And here is Montgomery's response to that. We talk about being brothers, we talk about being family, and keeping things in-house, in-house, this, that, and the other, and that's not what happened. I don't know, maybe that's what they do in their family,

but that's not what I do in mine. No one ever said anything to me. No one ever came to me. So I'm thoroughly disappointed in the speculation, and just the backlash that I have to deal with now, because now we're talking about my character. We're not even talking about the fumble anymore. We're talking about my character.

By the way, that was a very good answer by Ty Montgomery. as somebody, now, according to the Mike Silver report, several Green Bay Packer players called tie out. Several could be three. Could it be, you know, Silver went to Cal, so did Aaron Rogers. They're really, really close. I mean, the speculation in the media is Aaron and Mike Silver,

Aaron went off. Well, that report did lend to the idea that, time Montgomery just went rogue. He admitted he was upset for being taken out. He acknowledged that he said there's just no correlation between upset and bringing it out. But he did admit he was mad. Sure. But look, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

And maybe he doesn't want to admit that part of him running it out was logistical. And maybe he's just bothered because people are telling the truth. Or maybe he just ran it out because he felt like that was the best thing to do. And unfortunately, he fumbled. And had he not fumbled, we would not be talking about. about this right now. But, but he does have a point about the other players calling him out. Do you remember when Marcus Williams messed up in the Saints Vikings playoff game, right? I mean, couldn't be a bigger mistake, right? In the biggest moment. And everyone had his back immediately.

And I'm sure they were very frustrated with him for missing that tackle. Probably even a little more than time Montgomery just losing a fumble in our regular season game. Well, if you looked at Aaron Rogers' initial reaction to the play, his initial reaction was turn to a teammate and rip Montgomery. Right, which in that spot, you know that the camera is going to be on you. And look, like, people are allowed to have emotions, right? People are allowed to be upset about

losing. So I'm going to pick apart his body language. He's allowed to be upset. But at the end of the day, you come out and you back him up. Because you could have made that mistake. He's not above having a fumble and blowing the game. And who's to say he wouldn't go out there and throw an interception as soon as he touched the field? But whatever the truth is, at the end of the day,

they do need to have each other's back because everyone makes mistakes. And you're halfway through the season. It can't be man overboard in that locker room now. Right. So you need to get it together. Finally, just seven games into the season, LeBron appears to be running out of patience with his younger teammates and their mistakes. It's until LeBron after their loss in Minnesota last night.

We've got to get better. We know that. You know, we talk about patience, but, you know, we can't have a reoccurrence of the same thing. I think, you know, doing the same things over and over and over and expecting a different result then, you know, that's insanity. So, you know, we have to, you know, we have to continue. We have to get better. You know, we can't keep having the same mistakes over and over.

Well, they're two and five. They lost 124 to 120 at Minnesota last night, and they're giving up an average of 122.3 points a game, which is 29th in the league, and they can't get offensive rebounds. And they can't shoot. Right. Well, look, I didn't expect the Lakers to come out to some steamrolling start. Like, there's a lot of young players here. There's a whole system that LeBron has to figure out and work with. And he's the type of person that has to, that has to, you know, get into a groove with his teammates. You see that every place he goes. They start out slow. He doesn't practice anymore, as he shouldn't.

So there's no reason to start panicking here. I agree. I mean, I do think that they're going to have to add a shooter at some point in the season. But it's not a disaster. It's young guys. It takes some time to develop. Young guys on the road losing close. That's the story of the season so far.

Young guys losing close. To good teams. Portland was a number three seed. Minnesota's got talent. San Antonio is San Antonio. Well, I'm sure LeBron is not. to moral victories of like we were so close. Coming up, they've got a Dallas team.

Let's see them make a run through the Knicks and Brooklyn and the Wizards. So they have played a very tough schedule and they're losing close. So I agree with you. I don't think it's man overboard. I do think, and I'm going to talk about this with Chris Broussard, there is one interesting thing that I think is sort of developing. But to your point, it's early, it's a new team, and they're in all these games to the very end.

going to be all eyes on this team all years long. So every loss is going to be overly examined and every mistake is going to be flown out of proportion. Joy with News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly New York Times.

Where else? New York Times. The Akron B. Journal. He has been our NBA guy now for two years running and is going to be here for a long time. I always forget your Cleveland Plain Dealer stuff. Cleveland Plain Dealer. ESPN the magazine. All your stuff. What a house. People know you're good. All right.

Now, we can spin the Browns two ways. I can spin the Lakers two ways. I can say, LeBron always struggles for the first two months. They're losing close. They're losing to good teams. They're losing on the road. I can spin it that way. How do you spin it? Well, I think there's a lot of truth to that. They've been in every game. They haven't closed. I think that LeBron, this may be tougher than he expected. Interesting. Because as Joy said, him starting slowly or his team starting slowly is not a surprise. Happened in Miami, happened in Cleveland.

The difference was in Miami, you had another superstar and then a perennial all-star and Chris Bosch who could help you carry the load. Same in Cleveland. And also emotionally, you can talk to them. They understand what it's like to be a star player. Why aren't we winning, so on and so forth. Like you said, Cleveland, Kyrie and Kevin Love. Superstar and an All-Star.

Right. And you were in the East. They didn't care about their record. They had time to work through their issues. We only win 50 games. We're the 4th Cs. So what? Nobody in the East can beat us.

Half the teams in the conference are scared of LeBron. Now in the West, you obviously don't have a second star. You don't have anybody to help you carry the load on the court, but also emotionally off the court. You don't have that guy. that guy can understand where you're coming from. And then you're in the West. They're meeting a monster almost every night.

Well, that's what's funny about this. Every night they turn around, it's like, oh, they got the Spurs again. Oh, they got the Deval. Portland, Utah, Denver. They got Portland again in about a week in Portland again. It's, look, this could be, maybe he, LeBron, it's early. I'm not going to make a determination yet. But it's possible he bit off more than he could chew.

It's all dependent now on who they get. do they get another superstar to join LeBron? Now, maybe it looks like it could be Anthony Davis. But if they don't get another guy, this could be a bad four years. Let me throw this at you. You ever see the show Survivor where they vote people off the island? Yes. Okay.

I kind of feel like somebody will be voted off this island. It's kind of an audition to the All-Star break, right? So in the games in which Rondo has played more minutes than Lanzo, they're 0 and 4. In the games Lonso has played more minutes than Rondo, they're two and one. The loss is overtime. I feel when I watch the Lakers, Rondo's an alpha. He's an agitator. That's Rondo.

Lanzo's a little chill laid back. So Lanzo's career, high school A.U., UCLA and even Lest, Lakers last year. It's kind of his team. He's running the show. Now, it's not only LeBron's team. I'm not sure he's running the point guard position. I don't know if Lanzo's personality works with an agitating veteran point guard taking minutes. It seems the nights where Rondo gets more minutes, Lanzo's out of rhythm. Two things.

One, Lanzo has to be strong enough. And I think that's part of what the Lakers want to see. Okay? You have to have a strong enough personality to be able to handle, be able to perform with a guy like Rondo on your team. If you're going to let another strong-willed teammate stop you from playing your game, then you're not the guy to lead us. Or you're not even the guy to be the second guy to LeBron.

Couldn't I argue this, though, Chris, basketball's rhythm like quarterback. Right. If you pulled out Brady every third series and you put in, you know, at the time Jacoby-Berset or Garapolo, Tom would be at a rhythm. Basketball is a rhythm sport. Guys get into grooves. You play for six minutes.

Here comes Rondo. Could I say that in basketball sometimes, guys, it's a rhythm sport. That leads me to my second point. Luke Walton. Luke Walton's a contemporary of LeBron's and Rondos, meaning as a player. Okay. Rondo played against Luke Walton. He knows Luke Walton wasn't that good.

You know, we see a lot of mediocre coaches and mediocre players that become great coaches. But typically, they're coaching guys that are a generation beneath them. Phil Jackson wasn't much of a player, but when he got to Chicago, Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, they didn't know that. They didn't think about him. Rick Carl, I wasn't much of a player, but he's not coaching guys that played against him and knew you couldn't guard me if your life depended on it. Now, how are the, does Luke Walton, and I'm not saying he doesn't, but does he have the fortitude to be able to tell a Rajan Rondo, I'm playing Lonzo 35 minutes tonight.

Well, he's a coach, just tell him. Right. Or tell him or just bench him. I don't know. This is a challenge for Luke Walton because you're coaching guys that are your contemporaries that are roughly your age. LeBron was in the same draft and strong-willed. And you have to, I mean, that's the. the question because I think Lonzo

should be playing more just because we're not winning it this year. Let's see what the kid can do. To me, I think Rondo's going to get voted off the island because he's an agitator and I don't think if Lanzo doesn't work well with him, fair or not,

Lonzo is the guy we've got to figure out if he can play. I know what Rondo is. By the way, Lonzo as a perimeter defender, better. Lonzo as a shooter right now, better. Lonzo as a passer right now, cleaner, better. I think Lonzo's a better player. I think Rondo's a tougher player, a more seasoned player. And he may be a fit with LeBron and that kind of, you know, the toughness and the veterans.

But I don't know. The question is how committed are they to Lanzo's development now? I think they're like, are they still viewing him as we need Lanzo ball to become this great player? No, I think what they're trying to figure out is Rondo Lanzo, which is the dude? neither might be the dude. Like, I mean, going forward, if you get a Kawhi Leonard, if you get an Anthony Davis, where does Lanzo ball fit into that? He can pass.

I mean, he's not even the point. LeBron is essentially the point guard. I mean, Lanzo's best moments have been off the ball, catching and shooting threes. And, you know, he is a great passer, so when he has the ball in his hands, he can make a nice pass here or there. I'm not so sure.

I mean, you got Brandon Ingram's development. You got Kyle Kuzm's. Josh Hart, his surprises and become a really good player. Like, on the pecking order, where is the development of Lanzo ball? Like, they may feel like with or without him, we're going to be fine. If you had to vote one guy off the island by the trading deadline, who would it be? Rondo's the guy for me. I think he gets voted off.

Well, look, they wanted Rondo for a reason. They knew what they were getting. This is not a surprise. They knew what they were renting. This whole year is a rental, right? This whole year. There's one year deals with all these guys. But you pick a guy second in the draft.

You're buying Rondo's a rental and a lease. I'll agree with that. Long term. Longer. It's more. And I do, I don't think, you know, I don't think they've gotten close to this place right now and maybe never will get there. But I did think going into this season, okay, there's potential for LeBron and Rondo

to butt heads. because Rondo is a strong-willed guy who doesn't like being told what to do and thinks he knows what's best for the team and the way they should play. And LeBron's the same way. And LeBron's never had a teammate challenge or not defer to him. Rondo's not going to defer. And again, I don't think they're at, they've had any issues yet. But there's always the potential for that.

By the way, you know Ty Louie, he got fired. He'd get hired tomorrow, wouldn't he? Tyloo? No. I think, I mean, if he gets fired by the calves, he won't be in the market long, right? He could broadcast. He won a title. Oh, certainly he could broadcast.

Tyler's going to get another job. I think eventually, I think it was terribly premature that they fired him. Like, I know Tylo was looking forward to showing that he could coach. The verdict's still out. You had LeBron James. Well, I think, I don't think the verdict's out. I think Tyloon can coach. Well, why did they fire him after six games?

Because Dan Gilbert, Dan Gilbert, Dan Gilbert. I don't know if this was Dan Gilbert or did GM Kobe Alman. Well, nothing gets done without Dan Gilbert. I mean, ultimately you have the final say, but they, Dan Gilbert, you think he wanted to pay a guy $20 million not to coach? They should have given him this year to show what he could do without LeBron James. Listen, you can say, everybody can say what they want about Ty Lou and LeBron. You can't win an NBA championship,

even with LeBron if you can't coach. By the way, you go to that Tailu championship against the Warriors. He made several very nice coaching moves. He got the substitution pattern right. I'm not saying he can't coach. But I wanted, and again, I know he wanted to show what I can do without LeBron James. Well, you're not going to win titles without LeBron. I'm just saying.

I mean, David Black got him to the finals too. I think he can coach. I do. I think Ty can coach. I don't think he's necessarily getting the job right away, the next firing or something like that. But hopefully, because, again, he hasn't gotten his chance to show, you know, without LeBron. Chris Broussard, good stuff. Albert Breer next hour, NFL trading deadline.

You know, we've got about six, seven hours on that puppy. So if anything breaks, thank you, Chris. We'll have an update on that. Coming up next, I know a lot of you want to say, you know, this Patriots thing, it's because they're in a weak division. But there's another team in football that's got an equally, weak division that looks a lot like New England and they haven't taken advantage of it. That's coming up next. Plus, top of the hour, our herd hierarchy, tough this week. There are a lot

of legit teams in the national football. I give you my top 10, top of the hour. You know, there's a lot of rival fans want to discredit New England and they'll point to, you know, the AFC is a bad conference. But, you know, the difference between the Steelers and New England is they're both in really bad conferences, but New England's just taken advantage of their conference. If you go to the AFC East, New England's in it, and the AFC North Pittsburgh's in it, let's compare it. So what's the worst franchise in both? Buffalo and the AFC East and then Cleveland.

Buffalo made the playoffs last year. Remember, Buffalo was the perennial playoff team when the New England dynasty started. They unseeded Buffalo. Buffalo was in the playoffs every year. Okay, Cleveland's been in a 25-year abyss. So the Steelers get to face twice a year of far more dysfunctional organization, far more dysfunctional Cleveland than Buffalo. Buffalo was winning this division.

Then New England showed up. And even last year, they made the playoffs. Okay, let's go to Miami and Cincinnati. Both have had tons of good players since the dynasty started. Miami's had a lot of good players in the last 18 years. Cincinnati's had a lot of good players. Well, Miami made the playoffs in 2000. Cincinnati, they won a playoff game in 2000, Miami did.

Cincinnati doesn't want a playoff game in 28 years. So who's more the underachiever? I'd say it's Cincinnati. They both had great players. They both signed great free agents. They both had a little glamour. They both had pro bowlers. I'd say Cincinnati's more dysfunctional than Miami.

Let's go to the Jets in Baltimore. See, Colin, you're wrong. Since 2009, the Jets have been to 2,000. AFC championships. Since 2009, the Ravens have been to two AFC championships. Now, the Ravens are better than the Jets, but the gap's not as big as you think. The gap between Baltimore and the Jets,

by the way, Flacco once went to Foxborough and beat. Mark Sanchez once went to Foxborough and beat Tom Brady in both instances. So Baltimore's better than the Jets. But the difference is that New England plays its first road game once the playoffs start, usually

in the Super Bowl, is that New England takes care of the team. they should take care of. They don't play down to their competition. If you go to the last decade, look at these numbers. If you go to the last decade and both these teams are in divisions where they're the perennial powerhouse. Last 10 years, the Patriots have double the division titles, four times the playoff buys, almost triple the playoff wins, and triple the home playoff games. Tom Brady has never been a great road playoff quarterback. He hasn't been. He's good at home and he's good at the Super Bowl.

But Tom didn't have to play road playoff games because they beat Buffalo twice and they beat the Jets twice and they beat the Dolphins usually twice. So, you know, when you can discredit it all you want, but Joy and I were talking about this yesterday. Did you see what happened Sunday to the Steelers? This would never happen with a Bill

Belichick coach team. Why did he let it roll? I tell you why, it's because Nick's signal for the fair catch. Is that considered a live ball? Is the question? Yes, it is. It's a free kick. the Browns recovered, it's their ball. And the Browns have it.

What a sequence. Have you ever seen a free kick off a safety recovered by the kicking team? Without the kicking team having to do much. Hugh Jackson actually knew the rule there. I mean, so when I look like you can give good is good, bad is bad, efficient and inefficient's inefficient. The difference between the two dynasties is Big Ben has to go on the road in the playoffs. And it's hard to win road playoff games.

Ask Tom Brady. He didn't win a lot of them. Go find Tom Brady's last road playoff win. I think it's like, what is it, Goulet, 2006 or something? It's like over a decade ago. But New England never has to play road playoff games. And they get it by. And they're at home.

I can think of five playoff games top of my head. They won because of Foxborough. Couple against Baltimore. Couple against Peyton Manning. won against the Jets. I mean, they have won a lot of close games at Foxborough in January that I don't think they would have won at Pittsburgh. I don't think they would have won those games on the road.

Wouldn't Jacksonville? That was at home last year, too. I don't know if they win down in Jacksonville last year. I don't think they do. But they won, they beat Jacksonville in New England. So you can't use that excuse. A herd hierarchy top of the hour. Let me go back to something I said 30 minutes.

ago, Vegas has put up odds to replace Hugh Jackson as head coach. He and Todd Haley are out. The name that is not appearing that appears fairly obvious is Mike McCarthy. They have Belichick, Jim Harbaugh, and Sean McVay on that list, and that is ridiculous. Ask yourself this. When you watch the Packers right now, the division's better. Tipping point loss. Aaron frustration. Aaron's new contract. Schedule's brutal. Can't you feel the tension rise in Green Bay? I mean, this isn't me. I think if you lived in Green Bay. Aaron's got a new contract. What does that mean? Amplifies the pressure. He's had a frosty relationship with McCarthy. That goes without. I've had three different sources tell me that through the years. It's not great. Now you've got the

Thai Montgomery situation where McCarthy finally loses it and calls him out. Now Montgomery's calling out whoever called him out. You've got a tougher division. You're at New England, so your schedule is absolutely brutal, and you're a touchdown underdog to New England. You were a nine and a half one underdog to the Rams. By the way, they

just, in the offseason, got rid of Ted Thompson their front office guy. So Green Bay's already made moves to appease Aaron Rogers. Got a new contract. If they don't make the playoffs this year, Mike McCarthy's done. I'm not calling for his job. I'm saying,

over. They just got rid of the GM. They went into this season. Aaron went into this season grumbling about. Remember we know it's at Milwaukee radio station? And he called out the organization. So they've already made one move for Aaron. Now he's got a new contract. The division's tougher. Schedules. They can be out of the playoffs in four weeks at Seattle, at New England, at Minnesota. Heard hierarchy are top 10 teams tough this week. A lot of good teams. Next, I heard. It is just tremendous work by our crew here at Fox Sports and FS. I love this giant pumpkin, though. Yes, we got a couple of, I do love that giant pumpkin. Albert Greer, before the end of the hour, excuse me, before the end of the hour, and former NFLer, a guy that covers now in Cleveland, the Browns, Dustin Fox's going to be

joining us in 15 minutes. We are packed today. Every Tuesday, after Monday Night Football, we come in on Tuesday, and we call it our herd hierarchy. I spend way more time on this than a grown-up should, but I'm into it. And here we go. Our top 10 teams I've seen in the NFL. Heard hierarchy. Time is now. Let's go. The top 10 NFL teams, according to college.

Number 10. It's hard to trust the Houston Texans. Reportedly, I'll put him at 10. They're making a deal with Denver wide receiver, Demario Thomas as we speak. Demarius Thomas as we speak. And they play him this week. Five game winning streak.

Deshawns streak. Deshawn Watson has been unbelievable. And it's remarkable because he's been beat up physically. He couldn't fly on one of the team. trips. He had to take a bus. He's completed 67% of his throws during a five-game winning streak. 10 TDs, four picks, 105-passer rating. J.J. Watt is having a great year again. He's healthy. Eight sacks most tied in the national football league. It's hard to touch this franchise. But if they're making this deal for the wide receiver, it tells you, after losing Will Fuller,

they're all in. They think they can make a run in the AFC. Hard to trust them. This is as much as I can trust them. I've got them at 10, the Houston Texans. Number nine. I got to give Pete Carroll credit. Seattle has done a remarkable job. Right now, they have the league's number one rushing offense and the number one scoring defense since week four. Much like New England, they kind of punnet in September, rework their offense. They are running a higher percentage of run plays than any other team in the league. 53% of their plays are run plays. In a passing league, that leads the NFL. They're also top five, defense. Their pass rush is a little hit and miss, but Pete Carroll's strength has always been defense. They're playing great defense. They're not turning the ball over. Their turnover differential

second in the NFL plus 10. That's a very Andy Reed, Kansas City feel. I thought it was a rebuilding year. It's not. Seattle's for real. Dominated Detroit as a road team impressive this Sunday, Seahawks 9. Number 8. Pittsburgh Steelers are an interesting mix of dysfunction lack of detail and uber talent. Their pass rush right now is frightening. Baker Mayfield had no chance Sunday. Matt Ryan a few weeks ago had no chance against their pass rush. They are 3 in October.

They can go over the top. James Connor has filled in. He's been terrific. But then again, they lead the NFL in penalties and penalty yards and apparently haven't figured out all the rules judging by what happened against the Browns. I have them an eight. I'd have them higher on talent,

but their dysfunction, lack of details, puts them at eight. Number seven. Philadelphia, again, I think they're just a little tighter than Pittsburgh. The problem with Philadelphia, I can make an argument. Seven of their eight games have been decided by six points or less. I can make an argument. They're underrated and overrated. Here's what I know, though.

They are top five in the league in rushing. That matters especially up to Thanksgiving beyond Thanksgiving. The weather in Philly now, you're going to get some rain, going to get some hail, going to get some win. They can run the football. I also like this about Philadelphia. They get people off the field. Get the ball back to Carson Wentz.

Right now, third down defense is something I've always looked at. Their top three in the league, their third. Meaning, they got a pass rush. They get you off the field and they get the ball back to their star quarterback who now has a running game, Philadelphia at 7. Number 6. They were beaten by Carolina, so I'll put Carolina one spot ahead of them. I'm not, you know, this is a coin flip to me, but they did beat Philly,

so I'll put Carolina at number 6. six. Carolina, first of all, has always been sneaky, good at home. Once again, they're four and oh this year at home. They've won four of their last five. We've talked a lot through the years about their running game and they're second in rushing. A lot of that's Cam Newton. I got to give Cam credit. I didn't know with Norv Turner. Cam's got his money. He's got his MVP trophy. He's got, you know, he's got the fashion. He's got the commercials. Would he be coachable? He's been terrific. Multiple touchdowns, six straight weeks. That's never happened in Cam's career. I get a Remember what for years they call him roller coaster cam.

You're going up, you're going down. You're going up, you're going. He has mostly smoothed out the bumps. I've always liked their front seven defense. Ron Rivera, I think, is a very stable, solid head coach. I got the Panthers at six. Number five. I know you're not watching them, but the chargers are loaded.

Everybody talks about Minnesota's wide receiving corps. Well, Philip Rivers is better than Kirk Cousins, and this wide receiving course better than Minnesota. Kenan Allen, Stud, Mike Williams Stud, Terrell Williams, wide receiver, who played it like Western Oregon. They have three long, fast, tall, deep threats. And Philip Rivers, who's always been hyper-aggressive,

is going after them. And here's the thing. The Chargers have had talent for years, but they always kind of like gave games away. They have the second fewest giveaways in the NFL. What they've done, I talked to their front office in the off-season, And they said, we love our talent. Got to stop beating ourselves.

If you look at who's beating this team this year, Rams' chiefs. Like, if you go to the last two years, the only people beating the Chargers are like the New England's, the Rams, and the Chiefs. I have the Chargers at five. Number four. But I have the Chiefs at four because through the years, the Chargers can't beat the Chiefs. Andy Reed is own, the Chiefs. And this is an offensive story. Now, they do get eventually, they're going to get some defensive guys back.

But Patrick Mahomes has the most passing yards. most passing touchdowns of any player in the first nine games of his career. And it's kind of a perfect storm. I like Mahomes. We're going Gaga. He's got the perfect guy in Andy Reed, one of the great play callers in football, one of the great play designers in football. He's got the fastest guy on the outside of the Cheetah.

He's got a world-class running back, Kareem Hunt. Got the best tied end, in my opinion, in football, along with Zach Hertz and Gronk and Travis Kelsey. They've got a better offensive line than previous years. That's been coached up. I still don't know if I trust them in a big spot. he's still a kid quarterback, but I got the Chiefs at four. Number three.

May surprise, I have the Rams at three. I keep seeing this with the Rams. Maybe it's lethargy. Maybe it is they don't have a consistent pass rush. And you saw it this week against Green Bay. When they needed it late, they did have it. But four of their last five games, and not exactly against great competition, have been decided by seven or less.

Now, they're the number one running team. Todd Gurley is the MVP, in my opinion, of the league right now. their number one in point differential, second and total offense. But I've watched every snap of every game. Their pass rush is hit and miss. Their linebackers are okay. Now they will get better because their secondaries beat up. But when you can put pressure like the Packers did on Jared Goff,

you can clearly disrupt this offense. And I think it's close, but I have them at three. Number two. And I have New England at two because if I think they met, I think Brady would slice up without a pass rush. I think Brady would slice up their defense, like Kansas City. I think Brady would face the Rams and slice them up with a bunch of Chris Hogan, Julian Edelman, Grong, James White stuff.

I don't love their backs and I don't like the Rams linebackers in space, and I love what New England did last night. Just methodical. Didn't even perform well in the red zone. But here's the thing. 25 plus points on their five-game winning streak. They're the best coach team in football. They're the best quarterback team in football.

They have the best system in football. And I'll tell you this. They don't have a lot of superstars. not what he used to be. But man, they got a lot of guys that can play. James White and Chris Hogan and Gronk and Edelman, Corderle-Patterson, Josh Gordon. Got a lot of dudes. Not all stars.

Maybe none are stars anymore. But they can all play and they can all catch. Number one. Saints are the best team in football. Lost week one to Fitzmagic, and they've been great. They won at Baltimore. That's a tough win for a dome team. They won at Minnesota, convincingly.

That's a tough for New Orleans to go on the road. The Saints have always been that team that I love at home. Don't necessarily trust them big spots going up north, and they blow me away. I loved how they performed against Baltimore. I thought they were dominant against Minnesota. They run the football with a dual-back system. They've got a deep threat. Drew Breeze is completing closer to 80% than 75% of his throws.

They're one of the best coach teams in football. Mickey Loomis has stacked. Now, I don't love their secondary at all. Eli Apple, I think, helps. But again, I think they're going to end up hosting playoff games, and I would not. Be it the Rams, be it the Eagles, be it Carolina. I would not want to face this team down on that dome. No thank you, because they're winning on the road.

Saints, number one, in my herd hierarchy. I spend too much time on that. really it's at some point I need to get a hobby I sit there all day it's very important it's very important to me I've there it is I think I would swap I would swap the Patriots and the Rams right now yeah if they met tomorrow you take the Rams neutral field Super Bowl I think I do yeah I do I think I think I'd take new England in Super Bowl I saw it I think I'd take Brady against those linebacker you see James White last night it's just God Buffalo was like Buffalo James White you may want to

cover him. Yeah, but that's Buffalo. I know, but it's on the road. Rams are, listen, this is all time. I got, I got Saints one, Patriots, two, Rams, three, Chiefs, four. This is inches, not feet. Yes. But I think New Orleans. No one should be offended by this. No, they're inches, not feet, but I love what I see with New Orleans. Okay, I'm going to head to Cleveland next, former NFLer, covering right now the Browns. I'll say it again. Mike McCarthy, Green Bay, Aaron Rogers, Mike McCarthy, wearing each other out. They just fired their GM, Ted Tower. They demoted their GM in Green Bay.

How long's McCarthy going to last? If I'm Baker Mayfield and I'm John Dorsey, that guy that I work with in Green Bay, Mike McCarthy, I'd make a call to his agent. That's coming up. It's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

If you don't think whoever you get for Baker Mayfield in Cleveland, because the Brown's looking for a coach, through week eight in the NFL. I'm just reading this here from somebody that sent this to me. me. The following stats are tracking at their highest since the merger with the AFL and NFL. Completion percentage, yards per game, yards per attempt, passing touchdowns per game and quarterback rating. So basically, folks, the league has changed all the rules to be pro quarterback, pro-wide receiver. If you have a coaching opening, you better get

an offensive guy if you have an opportunity. Lincoln Riley for Baker Mayfield, Mike McCarthy's a name I've thrown out. Let's go to a guy that was a third round pick of the Vikings a couple of years ago out of Ohio State. Played three years in the NFL. Now is a broadcaster in Cleveland, the city that hates me, but I'm okay going there regularly via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Dustin Fox. All right, let's, I like, I love going to a city in the middle of chaos. You played the game.

You're a broadcaster. You're living in that city. You're at Brown's practice. I didn't love firing a coach, an offensive guy, two of them for Baker Mayfield. But your feeling is it needed to happen. Why, Dustin? All right. I can't hear him.

I'll let you guys figure that out in audio. Yeah, I can't hear Dustin Fox. So I'll let you guys figure that out. We'll go to him in just a couple of seconds. Albert Breer and Tony Gonzalez are also guys that will be joining us today. generally speaking, I don't like chaos. I don't like mid-season firings. In college, it used to never happen.

In the NFL, it's not a good signal to free agents, coaching hires. You know, I defended Hugh Jackson off the 0-16 season, and I got a lot of pushback. And my takeaway was, here's why I'm defending it. You're not going to win the Super Bowl with Hugh or without, but you've got to send a message. to scouts, to executives, to free agents, we're not a clown show here that we'll keep a guy Owen 16 because the problem with teams that keep replacing their coach and their GM and their

quarterback is it's the messaging to the rest of the National Football League. And the messaging was lousy for Cleveland the last 15, 20 years. So if you support Hugh Jackson and say, listen, he's 0.16, but we got some dysfunction here that he can't control. I thought it sent the right message, but then you go right back to sending the message that the Cleveland Browns always send, and that is we're going to get rid of our top two offensive guys,

and now give it to Greg Williams, who has a history of yelling and screaming and being old school when it's really an offensive progressive league. I don't like the move. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

All right, we have some breaking news. According to Ian Rappaport, the Texans are closing in on a deal for Demarius Thomas in exchange for a mid-round pick. So it looks like the Texans are getting their will fuller replacement. DeMaris Thomas has three touchdowns, 36 catches and 402 yards. Yeah, no, I mean, he's a good number two or number three. Been in Denver for a long time. Sometimes has the drops, but he's a big physical receiver. He's a good number two compliment to D'Andre Hopkins.

Yeah, gives Sean Watson another threat. You know, there's a couple of teams. Now, you know what this makes me think of? So Houston leads the division. They've got their quarterback. We kind of like their coach. They have a good defensive front. Does this, because I don't think the Colts are out of it.

If I'm the Colts, and they've got a lot of the offensive stuff going right now, do the Colts make a couple of moves in the next six hours for Andrew Luck? Because if you look at the AFC, New England's going to win their division, Pittsburgh's going to win their division. It looks like the Chargers and the Chiefs will both make the playoffs. There is a wild card spot if Houston wins their division. Who's Indianapolis competing against for the second wild card spot? Baltimore, which has lost two, three in a row.

So if I'm Chris Ballard right now, I got Andrew Luck, I got good tight end. I've solved my offensive line. I got a running game. I got a deep threat. If I'm Chris Ballard right now, I may go out and give up draft picks for a pass rusher on the market or a wide receiver on the market. Make some moves. You only have certain windows. to do the winning in this league. So the Giants are tied with the 49ers for the worst record in

the NFL, the midway point of their season. Their offense is in desperate need of an injection of life. And that's why many have speculated that Pat Shermer will decide to bench Eli Manning in favor of rookie Kyle Laletta. And when Shermer was asked about the situation, his answer was very revealing. We'll see. But yeah, I think Eli is our quarterback. But I did say, and again, I know what you're all trying to tease a headline out of, okay? And at this point, all right, Eli's a quarterback, and we're looking at all areas to improve. Well, he so always sounds. The last three times he's talked at the podium, this is what he does.

I know what you guys are trying to get out of me. You don't need to say that. It's like saying I'm the coach. Just talk. Stop telling the media what they're trying to get out of you. Yeah, what we're trying to get out of you is the question that we just asked. In honesty. for a change. We're trying to get an honest answer for a change.

Well, Cal Lauleta was reportedly arrested in New Jersey this morning while driving to the team's practice facility in East Rutherford. What was he arrested for? To NJ.com, sources and Weehawken, with knowledge of the incident, said the 23-year-old was trying to make a right turn from the wrong lane to get on to the 495 East and was directed to keep going straight. Laoletta made the right turn and nearly ran over an officer directing traffic. He stopped by another officer at the end of the on-ramp. That's not great, but it's not the end of the world. I mean, that's just being... No, but, you know, you're possibly going to be the starting quarterback.

It may sway your decision to stick with your life. I think I make an illegal U-turn at least twice a week. Sure. I make random U-turns in the middle of... Do you almost run over police officers when you're doing it? I have brushed several in my life. I'm not going to be out on a quarterback because he made an illegal U-turn on traffic. Well, we'll see what else the rest of the story is.

Finally, one team has decided to bench their franchise. quarterback. That's the Bucks. Fitzmagic is back. Dirk Cutter announced yesterday that Ryan Fitzpatrick will be the starter against the Panthers after James Winston threw four interceptions during the loss to the Bengals. Winston has six touchdowns and 10 interceptions.

So far this season, that's in 13 quarters. That's league leading interceptions. He had 11 interceptions all of last season. They feel like a dead franchise to me. They just feel like a dead friend. You're trapped with James Winston. You're trapped. Just start over. Just draft

quarterback start over. I mean, that's what I would do. I really don't know what other option you have. You know what you have with Fitzpatrick. He's going to come in and do what he did on Sunday. And then he's going to buck's your way back down and back up. And that's just what he is. And that's fine. He's a very solid backup quarterback. I've come to terms. They have two really great backup quarterbacks. It's just just James Winston thinks he's a starter. But they have two great. They put James Winston in the position to be the starter and it's just not working. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. Try it again.

Former Ohio State Buckeye NFL are drafted in the third round of the Vikings via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Let's try Dustin Fox again. All right, here we go. I didn't love the Hugh Jackson firing. Take it away. You got feet on the ground, Dustin. Why were you okay with the firing of he and Haley? Because they should have fired him last season after 131.

It was surprising that they actually brought him back. And obviously there was going to be an offensive coordinator added to the staff. and Todd Haley came in, and if you watched Hard Knocks, you could see this was a marriage that was doomed from the beginning. These guys obviously are both talented coordinators, but there's a lot of egos involved. And you knew as soon as there was some sort of adversity this season, this thing was going to break down. And obviously what happened after the Tampa Bay Buccaneers game last week, Colin, when basically coach Jackson said, I'm going to get my hands more involved in the offense, that didn't go over well with Todd Haley. And last week I was told it was just an ugly week in Berea.

Todd Haley wasn't happy with the way that Coach Jackson had sort of handled that situation. And basically the turning point was they had to make a decision on what was best for Baker Mayfield. And for Baker to have to answer these questions and deal with this adversity as a rookie, they've got to look out for the best interest of their rookie quarterback. So that's basically why both of them were fired yesterday. By the way, Lincoln Riley has got one of the top five college football jobs. He's winning. Baker's gone.

He's got a new guy and he's good with a new guy. And, you know, I mean, he's going to win 11 games a year at Oklahoma. He's young. So I can see him saying, you know what? If I go to the NFL, let me win some more games at Oklahoma. I'd rather go to a little less chaotic place. No shot at Cleveland, but that's reality. So if Lincoln Riley doesn't come, I've thrown out Mike McCarthy, who knows John Dorsey,

and I think he and Aaron are about ready to strangle each other, throw a name out there that you're hearing in Cleveland this morning. Well, you're going to talk to Albert Breyer in a little bit. and Albert and I talk. He comes on my show all the time. And I've heard it now, too. Matt Campbell from Iowa State. Yeah.

I know that Dorsey and his crew, they like this guy a lot. He's got Northeast Ohio Ties. He grew up in Stark County. He went to Mount Union, was the coach at Toledo, and has just done a terrific job at Iowa State. So to me, that's a name to keep an eye on. And again, it's all about this young, innovative, culture-changing sort of coach that the Browns need to go after.

I'm done with the retreads. No Mike McCarthy. no Mike Malarkey, no any of these old Jack Del Rios, we've got to get that young kind of Sean McVey type of coach. Dustin Fox drafted third round Vikings, NFL a handful of years, former Buckeye now covers them to sideline stuff, very talented young broadcaster and former player Dustin Fox. When, listen, people think, and I said this over and over,

and the reason I said this because I didn't want to be quoted, I said Baker Mayfield's not a bust, he can win. I just don't see him as Russell Wilson. and talented. I don't see him as Drew Breeze, who's one of the best players in my life. But I do think he's got a case Keenham with a better arm. He can win a bunch of games if you give him a bunch of good players and their roster's a lot better than people think. You, I imagine, in Cleveland, they love Baker. Is there anything, though, Dustin? Anything in the last month that does concern you about Baker Mayfield because he's been

beat up a little bit? That's the number one concern. Can they protect him? He's taking a lot of hits over the last couple weeks. The Browns have two tackles on both. sides that are basically first-time stars. One's an undrafted rookie, and the other guy is a fifth-year guy, Chris Hubbard from Pittsburgh, who this is basically his first year as a starter. So they're having a tough time, basically protecting him on the edges. So he's getting killed. This last, I was on the sidelines for the Steelers game on Sunday, and he was just getting

battered and beaten up. And you could sell it for the first time I thought, there was some frustration for him. And I also think that's part of the reason they fired Hugh Jackson on Sunday, because this team, I mean, they sort of, I don't want to say they quit, but there was a lot of frustration I thought from the players, but it gets your point. I think Baker's super talented. I loved him coming out in the draft. He was my top quarterback. So when they got him, I was just thrilled because I think he's a special type of players, a special type of kid with character that is going to turn around a franchise that hasn't had a quarterback since Bernie Kosar,

so he's got all that stuff. But if there is one knock, he's not, and I know you talk about this all the time, he's not the biggest guy in the world. So if he's going to have success in his league, he's going to have to learn to play from within the pocket. He's going to have to have some of those special things that obviously Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have. All right. His name is Dustin Fox, former NFLer, talented broadcaster, got a great future. You see him on sidelines of stuff and he's very well connected.

We screwed up the audio first time, Dustin, you're good at what you do. You got a great future. Appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks, Colin. Appreciate it. You bet it. Dustin Fox. Albert Breer will join us before the end of the hour.

We got trade stuff talking about. It looks like the Texans are going out and getting a wide receiver from the Denver Broncos, who's been around for the Broncos for years. I want to talk about something last night. Clay Thompson broke an NBA record last night for threes in a game, and he hit 14 threes in a basketball game. For those who don't follow the NBA, that's a lot. And everybody's going to talk about Clay Thompson today,

and that was not about Clay Thompson. That was about Steph Curry. last night was not about Clay Thompson. When Kevin Durant wins finals MVP, that's about Steph Curry. This all happens you get because of Steph Curry. Steph Curry had two MVP's, had already won a title. 73 win regular season record was just moving into his prime, held several three-point records, and went to his head coach and said, I'm going to get Kevin Durant,

who's probably a better player than me, will tell him. take away points and shots and probably trophies for me. I want to remind everybody that Carmelow Anthony could not coexist with Jeremy Lynn for a month. Couldn't handle it. I want to remind everybody that Westbrook, Russell, recruited Paul George, who he's clearly better than much harder than Kevin Durant, who he's not as good as. That's all I need to know.

Kevin Durrani had lunch with him. Paul Georgie worked out all summer with him. I want you to know that Derek Rose refused to get on the phone with LeBron James when he was MVP and playing in Chicago. Steph Curry is the most inclusive MVP in league history. That includes LeBron. Moving into his prime. The face of a franchise.

He literally went out, got on a plane, and sold Kevin Durant on Golden State. Last night, yeah, Clay is going to have nights like that. Jimmy Butler doesn't want to play with Carl Anthony Towns or Andrew Wiggins. He wants to be the man in Brooklyn. Every time I see Kevin Durant win in finals MVP, every time I see Clay Thompson go off, I'm like, insecure people want to be the man.

Secure people want to be among many great men. Here's Clay Thompson and Steve Kerr last night. I didn't even know who had the record, and so I asked Steph, I go, do you have the record? He goes, yeah. And so I'm a little slow on the uptake on some of this stuff. Even before I went out from the second half, Steph, the box score and said, go get it.

And that just shows you the unsolvishness that isn't with him. Yeah, I mean, he's in a remarkable player. You know, there's a lot of people that have been saying this for years and years. They're trying to break the Warriors up. Clay Thompson's going to be a Laker because Michael Thompson was. a Laker and Kevin Durant's going to move. I'll believe it when I see it. I'll believe it when I see it.

You're talking about in my lifetime, this, and I don't know if they're as good as the Showtime Lakers or they're as good as Jordan's 95 Bulls. But with the rules in place today, they are the best team I've ever. ever seen when passionate, when they're into it, when they're all in, when they're all galvanized, when they really feel it's a big night, Sebastian I've ever seen. And that includes the Showtime Lakers.

Sometimes the Bulls would not be as great today because they didn't have many elite three-point shooters. And the Warriors would not have been as good in 95 where you could push slender Steph Curry and slender Kevin Durant around. But this thing all works because of Steph Curry. Steph Curry's willing, going into his prime, MVP, had a title. Carmelo Anthony couldn't play for a week, couldn't coexist with Jeremy Lynn. It just shows you how smart and how secure Steph Curry is in himself.

Albert Breer around the corner, NFL stuff breaking. The trading deadline is at what, 4 Eastern today? so that would be one Pacific, meaning we are, we're two and a half hours to go. The Houston Texans are making a move to acquire a number two wide receiver to go along with DeAndre Hopkins. The word is, New England's interested in a big-time receiver. Keep your eye on the Colts. Keep your eye on the Jets, making move for offensive skill people to help their quarterbacks. Yes.

This weekend, Dwayne Haskins, number eight, Ohio State, looks to get back in business as the shoe against Nebraska. That's coming up Saturday at 1130 Eastern on Fox or watch anywhere on the Fox Sports app. For the record tonight, Joel Clad will be on tomorrow. Tonight's the first college football playoff rankings. My guess, Alabama won on Notre Dame 2. Notre Dame's actually played a much tougher schedule, so I would put Notre Dame number one. You know, Alabama's crushing everybody, but who are they crushing? I think you have to reward people that are not afraid to play road games

and out-of-conference games. Alabama has shown they have no interest going on the road. They either want to play at home. Any opportunity Alabama has to go on the road out of conference, they don't want to do it. So it's always neutral sites. So, you know, Nick Saban, I'm not saying they don't have the best team, but if you're asking me who I would put number one, Notre Dame's played a tougher schedule, and Notre Dame's much more willing to go on the road, which I totally respect. All right, NFL trade deadline.

We've got about four hours for anybody to make a move. Let's go to a guy to depend on a lot via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Albert Breer, Monday morning quarterback. Right, let's start with the firing of Hugh Jackson and Todd Haley. Why did it happen? I think as much as anything else, Colin, this is about creating the right environment for their young players. They had the information that they needed on Hugh Jackson. And for the first time and a long time, there's a lot of good young talent in that building.

And it's not just Baker-Mayfield, a lot of good 22, 23, 24-year-old football players, Denzel Ward, Miles Garrett, Jabryl Peppers, Desmond Harris, and Antonio O'Callway, Nick Chubb, and they want to make sure they have the right environment for those kids to grow in over the next couple of months. And things have gotten so bad between Hugh Jackson and Todd Haley that it just became an on-starter,

the idea of going forward with the two of them. In fact, one sign of how icy things were, Hugh Jackson said last week that he was going to get a little bit more involved in the offensive meeting room. I'm told that did not happen at all, that nothing changed, the things remained the same. And it became very, very clear on Sunday to everybody in that building that something was going to have to give. The question became, was it going to be Hugh? Was it going to be Todd?

And in the end, you know, Jimmy Haslam decided that it had to be both of them to create, again, the right environment for those young guys going into the stretch run. Baker Mayfield, there are stories that he wasn't in love with Hugh Jackson. Can we confirm those? That's absolutely true. Yeah, and I think one of the things about Baker is that he can be a little bit difficult to coach and that he evaluates coaches. He's not going to just automatically be on board with a coach just because that's who he's assigned to. You're going to have to sell yourself to him.

And he doesn't want to just know the how and the what. He wants to know the why. And, you know, over the course of his first six months as an NFL player, it wasn't Hugh Jackson giving him those answers. It was Todd Haley. It was, to some degree, Ken Zampizi, the quarterbacks coach. And so, you know, I think in a lot of ways, you know, Baker of Mayfield sort of saw Hugh Jackson as a little bit of an empty suit.

I'm not saying it was a bad relationship, but he was very, very open about how he felt about Hugh Jackson with people that he's close to. And I'm sure that that's something that was taken into consideration when they were looking at the big picture on what to do going into this week. Okay, I hear this kid, Matt Campbell at Iowa State. That's a little bit of the roll of the dice. Is there anybody in the NFL? Any NFL candidate we should keep our eye on for the Brown's job?

Oh, it's early, of course. You know, they got two months to really sort of vet candidates, to look at candidates before they've got to get it going. I think a couple guys you probably want to keep your eye on. One, I think certainly would be John D. Philippo, who had experience having worked in Cleveland, who's a quarterback's guy. He'd make some sense. If you want to look back to Kansas City, where John Dorsey came from,

Eric Bianamy, the offensive coordinator there, would make some sense, although he doesn't have quarterback coaching experience. If you want a veteran name, if Mike McCarthy were to separate from the Green Bay Packers, I think Mike McCarthy would be somebody that the Browns would look at. And again, I think Matt Campbell is a good name for you to look at. I know Lincoln Riley is the easy one. I'm not sure Lincoln Riley is going to leave Oklahoma to go just anywhere. Matt Campbell makes sense on a lot of different levels.

He's from Northeast Ohio. He's got a reputation as a program builder who relates well with people. And I can tell you this with certainty, that there are a lot of people in the scouting circles that John Dorsey runs in that have a lot of respect for Matt Campbell and believe that he's going to be a very successful NFL head coach. The question with somebody like Campbell would be, can he put together an NFL staff?

But I'd be shocked if Matt Campbell wasn't near the top of the list whenever the Browns put it together. By the way, our friend Adam Schaefter, you know him. Detroit is trading wide receiver, Golden Tate, to the Philadelphia Eagles. They need a receiver for a third round pick. Albert, I would be remiss if I didn't ask. I have a feeling that the AFC wild card spot, one of them is going to go to the chiefs of the Chargers. I think the rest of it's wide open.

I think the Colts with Andrew Luck think they could be a wild card team. Are you hearing anything on the Colts adding somebody in the next five or six hours? I would be surprised if the Colts made a move just because of where they feel like they are from a global standpoint in that they've done a nice job in the draft the last two years. They've sort of picked themselves up off the canvas. And they've got a good young base to work with there. and if you want to go up and down the draft class this year, a lot of guys who are already contributing.

On that offensive line, which is becoming a strength now, you've got two rookies in Quentin Nelson and Braden Smith. You have potentially the defensive rookie of the year and Darius Leonard, a couple of good backs and Heinz and Wilkins. A couple guys they haven't seen yet in game action that they have a lot of hope for in Taekwuan Lewis and Dionne Cain. And so the Colts are very confident about where they are from a building

standpoint. I don't think they view themselves as a contender quite yet. They're probably still a draft class away from being that. I don't think that they'd be an aggressor right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the playoff race down the stretch based on where they are right now. It's three and five. They're tied with the Jaguars in the AFC South. I just don't feel like they're the point right now in their building process where they would view themselves as close enough to be the aggressor on a day like to that. By the way, I like the Eagles getting Golden Tate. I like that move. Do you like that move?

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, look, they've certainly had a need for some skill position difference makers. They've taken those hits at the running back position. You know, obviously they went through the early parts of the year without Alshon Jeffrey, and some of the depth issues at the receiver position came to light. And so the idea of adding a golden tape, I think certainly makes sense. He's tough. He's a competitor. You know, he's somebody who's got championship experience having been on those Seahawks teams.

And so, you know, I know the Lions weren't wild about the idea. of parting with Golden Tate because in so many different ways, he fits what Matt Patricia is looking for. In fact, I talked to somebody there just yesterday who said, we need more guys like Golden Tate here. So certainly, you know, it's going to cost you something to get Golden Tate out of the Detroit organization. I think the Eagles giving up a three shows how they value him. And I certainly like it from the standpoint that you're giving your young quarterback another weapon to work with. And the guy who I think from a system and a program standpoint really fits is a competitor and a guy who's a fighter. and a heavy player.

All right, good stuff. I want to thank Albert Breer, Monday morning quarterback for coming by. It's a trading deadline, a few more hours. Thanks, Albert. All right, thanks, Colin. I got to tell you, I like what Philadelphia is doing. Joy, I keep saying this over and over.

Aggressive is winning in sports. The Dodgers were aggressive, Machado. The Red Sox were aggressive with, go get a J.D. Martinez. Astros with a Verlander. Warriors with Kevin Duran. Well, just take advantage of the windows that you have. instead of harvesting all of these draft picks that are completely unknown,

you get three or four years out of a solid receiver. Isn't that a better situation than saving up all these draft picks to draft someone that could be a bust? You know, this is really weird. Like first round picks are gold bars. But even the teams that have given up first round picks are not being punished. Philadelphia didn't have one this year. They're okay.

And Kansas City gave up one from a homes. And they're doing great. and the Rams, I always go to the Seahawks. Rams didn't have a first or a second this year. The Seattle Seahawks in the middle of their dynasty, three straight years did not have a number one pick. The Seahawks, in the middle of their dynasty, did not have a first round pick for three straight years.

If I can get productive players, I'm going to take them. And Golden Tate is due some money, but are you going to get a better player than Golden Tate in the third round? No. You're not going to get a better player than Golden Tate in the third round. a better player than Golden Tate. Now, he's expensive, but again, if you've been smart, that's what drafts are for, free agent at the end of the year. And people say, well, you're renting him. No, you can sign Golden Tate. He's got, A, he's expensive. Most of the good players are.

B, it's becoming a wide receiver quarterback league. C, if you want a Super Bowl, and, you know, right now the NFC, east wide open, have a chance to make the playoffs, win the division still. I mean, I like Washington. Philadelphia's got better players. So I like what they're doing. I get it. I'm actually surprised Detroit gave him up. Matt Stafford's a good quarterback.

He's never out of running game through the years. They don't want to pay him after the year. Isn't Detroit still in a playoff race? Is Detroit in a playoff race? Seems to me Detroit's in a playoff race. I mean, three and four in that division, Green Bay struggling. Minnesota can't finish things off.

Chicago's lost a couple of close games. Seems to me Detroit just gave up a good player. What's the message you send to your fans? What's the message you send to your advertisers? What's the message you send to Matt Stafford? You're punting on the season? Because you don't want to pay him? He's pretty good player.

I mean, Matt Stafford's not going to get a guy in the third round as good as Golden Tate. Well, we don't want to pay him. All right. I think I, uh, uh, if you've got the dreaded stuff he knows this cold and flu season, try VIX, sinex nasal spray. Use as directed. Be ready when congestion. strikes. All right, we got a good last hour. That Mike McCarthy thing. Albert Breer bought it up as well.

I got a text this morning from a buddy of mine in the media business said, keep your eye on McCarthy. A lot of rumbling out there. Aaron and him, not getting along. Hour three next. Hour three, this is the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening live in Los Angeles, Iheart Radio. Fox Sports Radio and FS1, Joey Taylor is joining me. This is NFL trade dead day. This gets so much more discussion in the NBA. In the NBA, you talk about it for hours and days and nothing ever happens. In the NFL, increasingly, NFL general managers, the young coaches and the GMs are willing to make moves, a lot of them. We've had a lot more trades in the last couple of years in the NFL. It is not a figment of your imagination. So the Lions kind of still

in a playoff race, but they're up against the trading deadline, and they just traded away Golden Tate, a good wide receiver for a third round pick. I don't think it's a steal. I think a third round pick has value. They didn't want to pay Golden Tate. I don't think it sends a great message to Matt Stafford. And I think what it does, I think it hurts the momentum and the confidence in Detroit's locker room. And I absolutely believe in Philadelphia's locker room today, there's an infusion of optimism because Golden Tate's a playmaker.

They are running the football in Philadelphia now for the last couple of weeks. They're running the football. and they're in a lot of close games. So a Golden Tate on the perimeter can make a difference. So I like Philadelphia here being aggressive. You know, basically Detroit said we're up against the trading deadline. We can either get nothing for them. We don't want to pay them, so let's get something for them.

So they got a third round pick. I don't think it's great for their team in their locker room. I think it's great for Philadelphia. Philadelphia either rents him and wins big. Could let him go or they sign him big contract. I mean, Golden Tate can play. Also, Houston, the Texans just got wide receiver, Demario Thomas from Denver for a fourth.

That seems fair. Golden Tate's a better receiver than Demario Thomas, who can have the drops. I think Golden Tate's got more peak years left. So that was a fourth rounder. Deadlines at 4 Eastern, 1 o'clock Pacific, so two more hours left in a couple of hours. But I don't think it's the end of moves. Keep your eye on the Colts. Albert Burr doesn't think so.

Keep your eye on the Jets and the Colts. Well, last night the Patriots eventually took a while, weren't great in the Red Zone, got an impressive win over the bills on Monday night football. So let me start with that. The fact that the Patriots dynasty continues is unbelievable. This is not supposed to be this way in professional football. Here's how long this thing has lasted. Ladani and Tomlinson got drafted in 2001.

The same year the dynasty started. He played his entire career, then retired, then waited the mandatory five years, and was voted into the Hall of Fame. and it's still going. I mean, the guy was drafted, the guy played, the guy waited, got it inducted the Hall of Fame, and the thing's still going. It's incredible. Basketball, dynasties, and basketball, pro basketball go hand in hand.

Dynasties in football don't last this long. First of all, there's the injury component. Guys get hurt. In the NFL, Gronk hurt, Edelman hurt, Hightower hurt. They've had great players hurt in the playoffs. the playoffs, miss Super Bowls. What if Durant and Curry couldn't play in an NBA finals?

So in the NFL, you have random and regular injuries to star players and the Patriots have had them for 18 years. No effect. I mean, last night, James White, they made him their best receiver, and Cordarell Patterson,

wide receiver, they made their best running back. They just invent new ways to win. They never play down to opponents. I mean, in football, if you have a bad quarter, you lose the game. You're out of the playoffs. In football, an unlucky break, a tip pass that becomes an interception. You lose. You're out of the playoffs. In football, a bad call in the fourth quarter, you're out of the playoffs. You should be out of the playoffs, even if you're a better team all the time. In the NBA, a bad quarter, who cares? It's a seven-game playoff

series. An unlucky tip pass? We'll make it up tomorrow in game four. A bad officiating call? That's game two of the series. The NBA also is not a coaches sport. Okay. The NFL is a coach's sport. That's why they pay football coaches in Boise more than they pay the Yankee manager or the Atlanta Hawks coach. Football's a coaching sport. In the minute you win the Super Bowl, your coaches leave, your assistants leave, your coordinators leave. Philadelphia lost its best two offensive guys. Go ask Philadelphia. Go ask the Giants. Go ask the Steelers. It's hard to get back.

Go ask Drew Breeze. Go ask Peyton Manning. Even if you got the quarterback right, you're losing your best coordinators. You're losing your players to injuries. Tip passes, bad breaks, bad calls. It's a one and done. It's March madness. Bad quarter.

Bad eight minute stretch. You're done. You're out. Bad break. Bad call. And the dynasties aren't supposed to last this long. This is unbelievable. I mean, there are no 70-year-old rooferes in Arizona.

That's not a career that's supposed to last that long. There are no 70-year-old guys in oil derricks in Louisiana. I mean, in the NFL, you win your division. They make your schedule tougher the next year. Doesn't work that way in the NBA. Doesn't work that way in college football. Doesn't work that way in college basketball. Doesn't work that way in hockey.

Doesn't work that way in baseball. In football, you win your division. Let's give them a tougher first-place schedule. I mean, it's just incredible what's happening right now. Here's how long this dynasty has lasted. The New England dynasty has been going on so long. It started before the Houston Texans were a team. Here's a story on the Browns that's interesting.

Baker Mayfield, who I've been critical of, won't exactly miss Hugh Jackson. According to stories, Mayfield didn't love Hugh Jackson. You know, you can tell the same story two different ways. I will argue that hard knocks got Hugh Jackson fired, not the two, five and one record. You can spin that two, five, and one record a lot of different ways. If you didn't see Hugh Jackson's ego on display, you could spin it like, hey, we're a legitimate field goal kicker from four and four. You could spin it that, hey, this thing, we were

old in 16 last year with a rookie quarterback, Steelers twice, Ravens, Chargers, Chargers, Saints, we're 2.5 and 1. But remember the hard knocks moment with Hugh Jackson. These reality shows are divorce magnets. Nobody looks good in these reality shows. Des Bryant was on an Amazon

reality show. Can't get work. Look like a crazy person. Nobody looks good in a reality show. Remember this, Hard Knocks a few months ago? Our team has to get mentally tougher and be able to fight through the that we got to fight through. We got to change this drastically. And if we got guys that haven't done shit sitting around doing nothing, you know, I just don't know how we're going to do it. Well, I respect you saying that.

I mean, I used to sit in the same chair. Let me finish. Whoa, whoa, let me finish. I used to sit in the same chair as you guys sat in. And I used to feel the same way. I just want to kill them. Okay. Until all of a sudden, I sat in this chair and then they're not there.

again but the chair i said in a little different the chair you guys said i get to watch from a different lens i'll talk me a long time ago you know what was it i'll give it to me if your team you do whatever the hell you want it's what if you're a team you do it the hell you want okay so this one's mine so that's just the way it's going to be so you see that ego and then when you see it resurfaced in eight weeks you're like oh hard if you don't see that with hard knocks you can spin two five and one a lot of different ways by the way with andrew luck the Colts are three and five, and there's nothing but optimism. That's with Andrew Luck. Three and five, arguably in a worst division with Andrew Luck, nothing but optimism, because you don't see Frank Reich's

ego. He's not on hard knocks. Okay. The Jets, what are they like, three and five? The Jets, Todd Bulls, quiet, you never see him, you never hear from him. He's understated, respectful, quiet, no ego. Jets are three and five? There's nothing but optimism. We just got to get Sam Darnold players. The Colts and the Jets with quiet, understated coaches who don't go on hard knocks, who don't show the ego. Everybody's like optimistic. Yet with a rookie quarterback, you face Drew Brees, Flacco, Rivers, Ben twice, or two, five, and one.

And everybody's like, whoa, man overboard. Even the Brown's owner yesterday when he made the move, listen to this. It's hard to win in the NFL. knows that it's us. And I think the message today is we're not going to put up with internal discord that we want people who are collaborative and work together. People are not meant to be videotaped all the time. I'm telling you, reality TV shows, if they call you, hang the phone up. trading deadline Philadelphia Eagles have acquired

once again Golden Tate they have Alshon Jeffrey Nelson Aguilar Zach Ertz the tight end now they have Golden Tate in a passing league so I like the move by Philadelphia I think they're a championship team

I've said before I feel like I feel like there's about eight or nine teams in that championship window it kind of feels like Houston's the last one in although I don't quite trust them, but they're the closest. I would put in, but I don't truly believe it.

But Philadelphia's got Aguilar and Ertz and Carson Wentz. There are O-lines heads of injuries, but now they add Golden Tate. You know, this is a Philadelphia organization that's going all in, and I think they should have. I'm a little surprised at Colts and Chris Ballard. I think they would have given up a third pick for a Golden Tate. Maybe they don't want to pay him. Albert Brewer says they like their players.

but I'm surprised the Jets didn't go after him to give Sam Darnold some help, but they maybe thought it was too expensive. They have a ton of cap room next year. So, and Golden Tate is a grown-up, practice hard, play hard, good after the catch, a playmaker, good on the edge. So the Philadelphia Eagles won aggressive today. I like it. And Detroit's like, we don't want to pay them.

I think it kind of punctures the momentum in their locker room. Players know who can play. Golden Tate can play. Tony Gonzalez around the corner. By the way, I thought about this, Joy. Can you imagine today if there was a broadcaster trading deadline? Like I always, I always, I will say this. Fans are always saying, well, these guys make a bunch of money.

A lot of people make money. Doctors make money. Lawyers make money. Realtors make money. There's a lot of money in the world. Can you imagine being a pro athlete and being traded? Family, kids, schools. I imagine there's a lot of anxiety on a day.

Oh, my God. I always say everybody's like, well, they make a lot of money. I got news for you. There's a lot of people in a lot of big cities making a lot of money. You don't trade them. I would say this is part of the job. So, I mean, I fully understand what it's like. I mean, my brother was traded, so I get it.

Where did he get traded to? He was traded to the Redskins. They're pretty good then, though. Yeah, but I mean, it's still very uprooting, especially when you, I mean, if you've played for a team for over a decade. But if I was Golden Tate, now the good news is, If I'm Golden Tate, I'm like, oh, I got all sorts of good teammates. I go from Matt Stafford, who I like, to Carson Wentz, who's a better talent. And I go to a better O line, a more experienced coach, a great GM.

It's nice when you go to a good situation. Sometimes you're not traded to a great situation. But I think a bigger element also is just mentally. I mean, you're going in every single day with your teammates and your routine and your family is here, and this is where you live, and this is who you're fighting for. And then all of a sudden you have to flip that and reprogram your brain. to assign yourself to a completely different loyalty. What if my boss came down and said you've just been traded to the Bravo network and for an intern to be named later?

Colin, you're going to work at National Geographic. Well, I do like giraffes, but I don't know my... I mean, it is amazing. But I mean, if this was part of your job, you would be mentally preparing yourself for that possibility. Right? Collins? Maybe. It's called Vice.

You're going to be on the show tonight. I don't know any of those guys on Vice. Other of your new teammates. Good luck. You're going to meet them tonight. Learn the playbook. Learn the script. You'll be on Vice tonight.

Tony Gonzalez, around the corner. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. It's just so interesting to watch, by the way, the Patriots last night.

You know, like with Tom Brady, when I watch the Patriots is we've got a plan, we're staying with a plan, follow me with a plan. When I watch Green Bay, a lot of times it's like we've got a plan. I'm not sure Aaron loves the plan. R-E-L-A-X.

I'll just get it done. I mean, like last night was a classic, be patient, let it work out, stay on the plan, and we'll win it over time, got to pick six. You know, Greg CoSells talked about this multiple times. A lot of times with Green Bay, I feel like they've got a plan. Aaron Rogers isn't married to the plan. and in the end in the fourth quarter, Aaron Rogers, a human life preserver,

comes in and says, I got this. And that's why I always feel with New England, I get much more consistency, whereas unpredictability is a little bit of Green Bay's brand. Even though New England and Green Bay in the last 10 years, along with Pittsburgh are the three winning its teams, it was so methodical last night. It was so New England.

And I think it starts with Brady. Brady is a, here's the plan, be coachable, do your job, follow me. This is what we're doing. With Green Bay I feel like they've got a plan too but Rogers is this close always to bailing on the plan. Greg CoSells talked about this before

it doesn't look or feel the same with Green Bay's plan as it does with Tom Brady and Belichick's plan. The reality is when you watch Aaron Rogers and it takes nothing away from his performances over the years but he's not truly a rhythm player Colin. He's kind of

an offbeat player, an off-rhythm player. He's more like a jazz beat. He's a second reaction player. And very often, there are in the timing of the play, and he doesn't make those throws. Now, he might move around and then make another throw, but there are times against really good defenses where that doesn't work. It's tough to be consistent that way against higher-level defenses. And that's why you see often with Green Bay, they'll just putter around for quarters. And then in the fourth, here comes the human life preserver, Aaron Rogers, R-E-L-L-A-X to save it.

England, even though they weren't good early, I always feel like they've got a plan. Tom is coachable. Tom's leading you. Do your job. Let's be patient. But it's part of a plan. I always feel like with Green Bay, Aaron's not totally locked into the plan. And at some point, it's going to throw the clipboard.

He's going to throw the binder off to the side and do his own thing. I feel that actually a lot. And I think that all starts with their personalities and who they are. Well, it's NFL trading deadline, wraps up in a couple of of hours. Here's a guy that played for 17 NFL seasons. He missed two games in 17 NFL seasons. He is a 14-time pro bowler. He is Tony Gonzalez. And it's interesting because you played with Kansas City and you played with Atlanta. And you traded there or a free agent? Which was it? To Atlanta, I got traded. Okay. So what is it like to be traded?

Well, at that time, I was very happy about it. I was sad to leave Kansas. the city, the fans and all that stuff. But we had a new regime coming in. Todd Haley and God, I've had a Piole. Scott Piole from, and we were rebuilding. So I was like, get me, get me out of here. Okay, so for you it was good.

Yeah, it was great. Worked out great. Obviously, went to the Falcons, Matt Ryan, went to the UFC championship game, yada, yada, yada. How long for Golden Tate? How long does it take you? You're a smart guy, went to Cal, learn the playbook. I mean, God, you're wearing one uniform forever. The next day you're in an eagle

uniform. Is it weird emotionally? Okay, on this, I can't imagine being traded a National Geographic Network and tomorrow I walk into their offices. Is it hard? Well, I think you would be able to make that transition. It's all up to the player. You could do that. Talk about animals and traveling and all that stuff. You could do. I think you do a good job. But first of all, I got traded during the off season. So I had a chance to kind of ease my way into it. But for these guys that get traded halfway through the season,

you just got to go out and put the work in. Yeah, it's going to be difficult. You're going to meet all these new people. But that's just how it goes. I don't think he'll have a problem with that. Well, he's going to a better team. Going to a better team. So that helps.

I mean, be honest with you, when you went to Matt Ryan, it made you feel, I mean, that was easy to put the work in. Yeah, and here's the one thing that I did for sure is because first thing I wanted to do, I met with Matt one-on-one, and let's watch some film. And let me tell you what I'm good at and where I like the football. And talk to my coaches, okay? let me tell you how I like to be coached. You know, let's just set out.

Now, I'm not telling you what to do, but I'm telling you what I like. That way we can make this transition a lot better. So we don't run into problems. And sometimes you do run into problems. Was Matt put off at all that you walked in and said, hey, I'm the new guy. This is what I like. Was he cool with that? Well, it was only his second year.

I've been a leave. You were a stud. He was a kid. Yeah. No, but I love Matt. Obviously, we still get along. So, yeah, we got along great. And we still do.

That wasn't a problem. You know, when an anonymous player called out Ty Montgomery of the Packers this weekend. And like I've always understood, there's people in my business who tend to curry favor with critics. So they, you know, it's kind of like your bulletproof vest in our business. Take care of the critics. They won't rip you. I've known a lot of guys that do that. You know, I mean, somebody called him out to Mike Silver, said he was selfish.

Were you ever in a locker room that you, you, you, knew that certain guys were leaking stuff to the press. Like, I always think that's strange. I've worked at three or four media companies where I know there are people that are leaking stuff about me and other people to the press. That's part of our business. And do you ever feel that? Because somebody called out time on gummery to Mike Silver.

Were you ever in a locker room and thought, that guy's a talker, that guy's a talker, that guy's a talker. You have certain guys because Mike Silver has relationships in that locker room. So when he comes in and says low to people, he'll go to certain guys that he's friends with or whatever. So you kind of put two and two together. Right. And he's a, I bet it's him doing it. But you never know.

Aaron Rogers and Mike Silver are close. So if I was in that, if I was Thai Montgomery, whether this is accurate or not, I'd watch his reaction on the sideline. Aaron's, I know they're close. And I'd be like, they both went to Cal. And I'd be like, oh, Aaron just called me out. Probably. But we'll never know. We'll never know.

Did you a talker? Did you have a little sourcing in the NFL? A little sourcing? Did you have Peter King? You dropped little stuff to him? I had that little guy, Jay Glazer. Oh, you told him stuff? Well, I mean, we were friends.

And so I would get information. Sometimes you got to strategically leak stuff. But I was never like that. I wasn't talking about players on my team. I just kept my mouth shut up. Okay, I'll be Glazer. Hey. Hey, Gonzales.

No, he calls him Vato. Hey, Vato. You got any scoop? Goop. Yeah, what's going on? What's going on? What's going on? Yeah, I got a little scoop here.

So you give him a little something. I give him a little something what's going on around the lot. A little bit of breadcrumbs. A little something. Why not? That's what an NFL insider is. That's what our boy, Schrager does. That's what Shreggs does.

That's what an NFL insider, that's what all of them do. When you, the whole Cleveland Brown situation, how many coaches did you have in the NFL total? Four? Shoot. Head coaches. Four, five. Anybody fired mid-season? season? Never in the middle of the season.

But you had situations where you knew he was going to get canned. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I don't love the idea of firing Hugh Jackson and Todd Haley in week eight. I don't love it. What do you do, though, when you got guys that have egos, because they're both been head coaches, the office of coordinators. They're both offensive minds. The rumor I heard is that Hugh Jackson did not want Todd Haley.

That was a Dorsey decision. I don't know if that's true or not. And so, and Todd Haley, one of the reasons that, that, because I knew we weren't going to be good, but another reason I didn't want to stick around Kansas City, I knew Todd Haley was coming in. Now, I did some research about Todd Haley. He's got an incredible ego, and he'll yell at you, and he'll go off. You don't like that. I don't like that at all.

I don't like to be talked to like that. And so I was like, I got to get out here for sure now. I'll retire if they keep me. And that's kind of what I said to him with the Chiefs. Like, I cannot stay here and play for a guy like this. I don't know him. called around. I knew players that have played for him,

and they told me this is him, but he's a good guy, and if you get it, yada, yada, he's a good play caller. And there's no arguing that. But from a personality standpoint, I'm not playing for a guy like that. I don't want to at that point in my career.

And so I'm thinking that this is what happened here. Dorsey said, you guys have to get along. They said they're, you know, different philosophies. And then boom, you know what? Kind of like with my kids, where they're fighting over who gets the last pancake

or they keep fighting, fighting, fighting, so sometimes I was like, you know what, next person that says something, and both you guys get in trouble. And I think that's what happened here. I like that.

You have always been a sensitive guy. You don't want people yelling at you. No. That hurts fair. Why do you have to yell at me? Don't tell me. You know you're going to screw up. You know that.

And so why do you have to yell me if I don't catch the ball or I miss the block? Just tell me I just didn't. I didn't do it right way. You're sensitive. You're a very sensitive. That's one thing about him. Was your brother sensitive, Joy? Was he sensitive?

I don't think he would appreciate sensitive. I tell him that he is moody. Everybody's a lot of people are like, everybody's not moody. You want your bosses yelling at you? What if they came here and said, you know what, Con, that last show was horse pucky?

I don't think a lot of people like to be yelled at. I think some people become more conditioned to that being normal, and then they're more accepting of it. It's like maybe they've just dealt with yelling coaches throughout, you know, from the time that they were playing pee-wee ball all the way up so they don't get offended by it.

But everybody responds to a different type of criticism. Yeah, in high school, my football and basketball coaches yelled at me, but I was in high school and I think I needed it. Yeah. But I would say at this point in my career, I know when I suck. Yeah. And so I don't need it. Like when you went to Atlanta, at that point, you know when you had a crap practice.

Oh, yeah. I always thought if I coached, like, what would I be like? And I think there's an old fly. philosophy out there that you're supposed to give three compliments for every criticism. Yeah. I would much rather, no, I can't say that. I'd probably bark. Sometimes I get impatient.

I'd bark sometimes. You bark. I bark at my kids sometimes. God. You're a dog. By the way, he doesn't want to get yelled at, but he just told us a second and go, I tell my kids, neither are you get pancakes. Go to your room.

Well, they're kids. You can be stern without yelling. That's what I want. I think a good coach knows what each individual plays. or at least takes the time to observe what they react to. You can't treat every player the same. Everyone doesn't respond to the same. It's not even just every player.

Do you treat every person that you interact with the same? No, because everyone responds to criticism and confrontation differently. Bill Belichick. I'm playing at the Pro Bowl. You are with Bill. I'm at the Pro Bowl and Bill Belichick's our coach. I went out there. I remember it was a kickoff return.

I remember I had had a bunch of my ties all week. I wasn't really wanting to play football at this point. And so we get the kickoff return and I don't even block the guy. The guy goes down and makes a tackle, whatever. I come off the sideline, Bill Belichick. Didn't yell at me. He just looks, he's looking straight ahead, and I'm walking right by him, and he goes, why don't you freaking block somebody, Gonzalez?

And he wouldn't even look. And so he walks by, and I remember I got kind of upset by it. I was like, okay, well, that's how you talk to me because I listened. And I went out there the next time I blocked the guy, and the same thing, I'm walking by him this time. He doesn't even look at me, and he goes, nice block, Gonzalez. And I was like, I see why this guy's so good. because I don't think he yells.

I don't think he doesn't strike me. He's not a big yeller. No, he's the best coach in NFL history, without a doubt to me. And I think that's part of how you communicate with, it's part of it. It's part of it. Whether you like it or not, whether it's fun or not, he communicates in a way that you understand.

And if you don't do it, then by the way, I think it's fascinating that on a kickoff return of all that mayhem, he spotted you as the dog. No. How did he, like, a kickoff? I've been on the sideline for a kickoff. It's just mayhem. It's just a bunch of dudes running, and he spotted you in the other side of the field.

The Gonzalez block somebody. Yeah. Freaking block somebody. Oh, he dropped that. Yeah. That's different. Different. Believe me, you dropped that thing before that word.

It's a all different ballgame. Me. Now he means business, and I knew it. Tote Gonzalez. Trading deadline, any more stuff will have it for you. Thanks, Tony. Joy with the news. No. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. I do not like to be yelled at. Most people don't. Yeah, I get. I don't really like to be scolded at all, though, because I'm a spoiled brat. So the NFL trade line is approaching quickly, as you mentioned, 4 p.m. Eastern, and it appears the Steelers will not be buyers or sellers. You know, a lot of people are wondering about Levi-on-Bel's situation. Well, he has not reported or signed the franchise tag, so he is now untradable.

The next deadline for Bell is next, the next deadline is after week 10. Well, he's going to go there within the next two weeks, right? Yes. Because he wants to be able... He must show by November 13th to be able to play this season and not risk another round of the franchise. attack. So he must show up by November 13. I'll go back to this. A very good team

in the NFL is getting arguably the first or second best player at his position and totally healthy and totally rested with nowhere on those tires about Thanksgiving. I got to tell you this, if I'm in the

AFC right now, I'm like can you imagine adding Kareem Hunt to the Chiefs right now or adding Todd Gurley to the The only thing that concerns me is as good as Levy on Bell is, he has not been playing football. So I'm sure he's in great shape. I'm sure he's in great workout shape, but football and game shape is different. That's the only thing that concerns me.

Isn't that why they invented? I mean, it makes a difference. We see guys at Miss Training Camp, like you come in, you have to catch up a little bit, even if you are an elite player like Levy on Bell. It's the only thing that concerns me. Also, Mike Tomlin said this morning that Ben Rathesburg has a broken index finger who's not throwing hand. They don't anticipate it being an issue.

Sunday against the Ravens, but there's just a little bit of news on the Steelers. So possibly the most ridiculous thing you'll read today, an online betting service gave Sean McVeigh the best odds to end up as the Brown's next head coach. And why, you say, would McVe leave the Rams for the Browns? Well, he was asked if that was a possibility, and here's his answer. I couldn't be happier to be here with our players, with this organization, working for a great owner and Mr. Cronkey. Unless they decide they want to make a change, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

certainly not with the Browns. He's 32 years old and just signed a five-year contract. With the richest owner in a new stadium coming up, with a franchise quarterback, a starback, the best interior defensive line. They're also undefeated. Yeah, I don't think he'd want to leave. Plus, it's a nice place to live. L.A. is expensive, but if you're making money, it's a great place to live.

I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. Finally, Tyne Montgomery made a huge mistake on Sunday when he decided to take the kickoff return out of the end zone with less than two minutes remaining and a timeout. taking the ball out of Aaron Rogers' hands, and he fumbled the ball away to end their chance at a comeback. His teammates had some scathing quotes for NFL networks Michael Silver, and Montgomery responded to that. We talked about being brothers. We talk about being family and keeping things in-house, in-house, this, that, and the other, and that's not what happened. I don't know. Maybe that's what they do in their family, but that's not what I do in mind.

No one ever said anything to me. No one ever came to me, so I'm thoroughly disappointed in the speculation, and just, to just the backlash that I have to deal with now because now we're talking about my character. We're not even talking about the fumble anymore. We're talking about my character. Well, it's interesting because we saw Aaron Rogers show absolute disgust with the move, and we know Rogers and Mike Silver are close. So whether it's true or not, if you're time on Gummery, like Tony just said, you know when guys are boys. You know when certain guys.

Yeah, it's interesting. Will this be, will this agitate locker room? I don't know. I never really know what exactly to read out of those like locker room breakup situations. Everybody's not always going to get along. And when you're losing, it's even more frustrating and all those emotions are elevated and everything is a bigger deal than it would be if you're winning. So I do agree with him.

I don't like that everyone kind of threw him under the bus. Everyone makes mistakes, even if it is a huge fumble at the end of the game and he should have just taken the knee and put the ball on Aaron Rogers' hands. But it was to say Aaron Rogers would have gone out there and just thrown an interception or got hit and had a fumble. Yeah, you could say that. You can't, you can't overreact to the situation. And unless there is, like, there is absolute proof multiple people come out and put their name on it.

I heard McCarthy tell him, don't run the ball out of the end zone. And we're all basing this off rumors. I don't know. The bigger picture to me is that there shouldn't be this kind of discord. You're allowed to be emotional and react to, you know, losing the game. But it's, it all comes from the top to me. Green Bay, you can just feel it. that this thing is about ready to splinter.

If they go to New England and get, and New England's a touchdown favorite, if they go to New England and they lose this one, and by the way, then they have at Seattle, at Minnesota in the next three weeks after this week, I feel like this organization's close to splintering. Because if you look at the NFC, a wild card team appears to be coming from the NFC East. Either Philadelphia or Washington is one of the wildcard teams. and then Carolina and the Saints are both hot.

A wild card team is coming from that division. So that would tell you Green Bay better win their division. And if you look at Minnesota's schedule going forward and you look at Green Bay schedule going forward, Minnesota's is a lot easier. And they get the Packers at home if there's any sort of tiebreaker later because they tied the first time.

So I don't know. This game with New England and Green Bay Bay feels like the biggest regular season game in Aaron Rogers' career. That's the best way I can put it. I mean, it probably is based up the circumstances and all the rumors and just the whole energy in the situation. Yeah. This feels like the biggest regular season game in Aaron Rogers' career. Joy with the News.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. Coming up, it's the Hurd's first annual, most dysfunctional NFL franchise pageant. I will be hosting the special event next in Best for Last. It's The Herd. Sunday, it's a Fox NFL doubleheader, starting with Matt Ryan and the Falcons, taking on Adrian Peterson and the Redskins.

Then it's America's Game of the Week as Todd Gurley and the Rams battle Drew Brees and the Saints. It's all on Fox in the Fox Sports app. Check local listings. Ram's Saints is going to be the game of the year in the NFL. Rams Packers, I thought, was the best football game. The two games I've seen this year, I was just jaw-dropping. Kansas City, New England was jaw-droppingly good. Packers, Rams was fascinating.

Green Bay crushed. for the first two and a half hours. This could top both of them. Undefeated Rams at the one lost Saints at the Superdome. Let's go best for last. After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet. Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best for last.

So yesterday, the Browns in week seven with a rookie quarterback, fired their head coach and their offensive coordinator in an offensively driven league. Disfunctional. And I think we all kind of think, you know, the Browns by far and away are the most dysfunctional franchise. But if you go look at the last 10 to 20 years, Joy, you lived in Miami, you've seen dysfunction. I mean, when Marino left, they could never get it right in Miami. And it's amazing.

We thought there's a lot more dysfunction in this NFL than you think. And today we're going to do something called it's the most dysfunctional franchise pageant. Here we go. It's time for the herd's first annual most dysfunctional franchise pageant with your host, the sensational Colin Cowher. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right.

So here are the 10 contestants in our first ever most dysfunctional franchise pageant. Bills, Browns, Raiders, Dolphins, you'd agree with that one. Yes. Jets. Jermersay. Giants, Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, and Dallas Cowboys. So what we're going to do, like a beauty pageant, we have to start now eliminating. We have 10 dysfunctional franchises last 10, 20 years.

Now we start eliminating the contestants. So here's the first question. Does your team have a top 10 statistical quarterback? Because if you have a franchise quarterback, you're not that dysfunctional. Well, we have to eliminate two of the teams. Detroit has Matt Stafford. And the Colts have Andrew Luck. So you can't be that dysfunctional if you figured out the most important position in the sport quarterback.

We're down to now eight contestants, Bill's, Browns, Raiders, dolphins, jets, giants, Cardinals, Cowboys. So how about this? Have you won... What do you want to do in this league? You want to win a playoff game? Have you won a playoff game in the last 10 years? Dallas, you got two of them.

Arizona, you got a Super Bowl appearance. Giants won a Super Bowl. Jets went to two AFC championships. So Dallas, Zona, Giants, Jets, you cannot be the most dysfunctional franchise. We've eliminated more contestants. We are now down to four contestants. We could have a surprise, here in the most dysfunctional franchise pageant.

Who are the final four contestants? Bills, Browns, Raiders, and Joyce Dolphins. How about this? So we asked if you had a franchise quarterback. You can't be totally dysfunctional if you get that right. Indie Detroit, boom. We asked, last 10 years, if you won a playoff game. I mean, if you want a playoff game, you're not that dysfunctional.

Hard to win a playoff game. I mean, Tim Tebow won a playoff game. That's hard to explain. But now we're going to do this. Last 10 years. Have you... How about this? Have you won a divisional title in a decade?

Listen, there's no division bad enough where that's not an accomplishment. So have you won a division title in the last 10 years? So let's see here. Now, in Oakland in 2016, you tie the Chiefs for the best record in the AFC West, but you lost the tiebreaker. So Oakland's still in the running for most dysfunctional. But Miami, now Tom Brady may have been hurt. But Miami, 10 years ago, won the division. So let's eliminate Miami.

Still counts. It counts. Hey, injuries are part of football. Sure. Joy, we are down to Bill's, Browns, Raiders. I have a feeling this is going to be like that movie usual suspects. Bruce Willis. You know, you're going to get like a crazy ending.

Wasn't that? No, it was a six cents. Well, both have crazy endings, but Bruce Willis is not enough. Okay, you're right. You're right. Kevin Spacey was in there. Okay, so we're down to Bill's Browns, Raiders. Here we go.

Okay. So you have the franchise quarterback. You can't be that dysfunctional. Right. You won a playoff game last decade. You can't be that dysfunctional. Hell, you want a division. You can't be that dysfunctional.

So let's go to this. How many? head coaches have you had this century? 18 years. The Browns have only had nine bills and raiders 10 each. The Browns are

not the most dysfunctional. If you can't keep coaches and we've got to add up the coaches, the Browns have had fewer coaches than the bills and raiders. We are down now to the two contestants in the most dysfunctional franchise

pageant, Joy, your Miami Dolphins won a decade ago a division. They were eliminated, much to the chagrin of Joy Taylor. We are down to Bills and Raiders. Okay. So what would be the deciding factor, Bills and Raiders? How about this?

Did you ever trade away a potential MVP? And with that, I'm sorry, Buffalo. You have not done that. And the Oakland Raiders by trading Khalil Mack Not winning a division Not winning a playoff game

Not having a top 10 statistical quarterback Oakland congratulations John Rudin take the baton The Oakland Raiders Do you have flowers for them? Well, what are those things in front of your desk for Halloween? We have a puppy skeleton There you go, Raiders

Some leaves I feel like we did leave the Bengals out of that They just missed the cut. They weren't pretty enough. You know what, though? They've made the playoffs a bunch of times. They've actually drafted. They have been very functional in the NFL draft.

The Bengals have drafted a lot of good players. They've won the division. And here's another thing. They don't fire Marvin Lewis. How long has Marvin Lewis been there? They're going to keep Marvin Lewis now. Yeah. So you say Bengals, but when I look at Bengals, they keep the coach.

There's not great turnover. They have won the division with the season. Steelers and the Ravens, you know what? They draft well. They got good players. They've had a lot. And when they get good players, they mostly keep their good players. Yeah, I don't know if maybe dysfunctional is not the right word for them. It's more just like.

They've underachieved. Yeah. There's a big difference. Like I said last week, there's a difference between demanding and difficult. There is a difference between the Bengals have underachieved. But if you go look at the Bengals, same owner, same quarterback, same head coach. And by the way, I can make this argument. they've also found and developed good coordinators who have left to go and get good jobs.

I mean, Jay Gruden, Zimmer, they've had good coordinators there. They're more functional than people think, but they have. They're just consistently. They've underachieved. They shrink against the Steelers. That, you can't argue. They have been in that shrinking stage. They're a little like Andy Dalton and Kirk Cousins.

I know they're good enough, but they shrink in big spots. They're the extra slice of bread in the club sandwich. you. That's what they are. Kind of empty calories. Tomorrow on our show, Nick Wright stops by Joel Clatt. Tonight is the first playoff rankings. So tonight watch TV. I told you, I think Alabama is the best team, but I'd put Notre Dame number one. They've had more impressive wins. I'd go Notre Dame one. I'd go Bama two. I'd go Clemson three. And I don't know. Oklahoma for? Ohio State, no. Michigan. LSU. If you go back to the history of the first playoff ranking, there's always two SEC teams. So my guess, LSU will probably be in there.

I don't know. I don't know. Oklahoma's pretty impressive, too. They're pretty impressive. Car shopping's confusing. A lot of terms, dealer price, list price, invoice. Here's what's not, saving three grand off MSRP, new car, used car. Doesn't matter. Go to truecar.com and Check out the true price inside of the true car. We'll see you tomorrow with Joel Clatt, The Rankings, and Nick Wright in L.A. Good show. It's the herd. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment,

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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