The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Prime Cuts - Aaron Rodgers “Got “Weird”, Shedeur Will Start, Landing Spots for KD? Knicks Coaching Search

Episode Date: June 14, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week! First, he’s joined by John Middlekauff,, host of “3 and Out” to Aaron Rodgers becoming “weird” late in his career (3:30) which lead teams to pass on him. They compare his relatively short “prime” to some other all-time great quarterbacks (7:00) and debate whether Matthew Stafford could surpass Rodgers on the list of all-time QBs if he plays 2-3 more good years of football (11:00) They address the concerns coming out of Minnesota about quarterback JJ McCarthy and whether the Vikings could be in trouble at quarterback this season (14:45) and Colin predicts Shedeur Sanders will be starting for the Browns by week 8 (20:30)  Then, he’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to discuss the Knicks struggles in finding a head coach to replace Tom Thibideau (30:45) and explore the best potential landing spots for Kevin Durant (42:30)! (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Aaron Rogers got married. I saw he had a wedding ring on, and I was talking about this on FS1 today. In the last year, I've had a couple of buddies who are GMs in the league. And one of the lines I've used in my business for a long time is weird, doesn't work. You can be, you can have an ego, you can even be a little temperamental. You can make mistakes. But if you're weird, eventually companies will move on from you. And I had a general manager tell me I was out with him about six months ago, and he said, Aaron just got weird.

And he said, and there's a story that McVeigh passed on him. Kevin O'Connell passed on him. He was the Steeler's third choice. And I was writing down a list today of the quarterbacks I would take over Aaron in the league, and there were 16 of them, including like Bo Nix. I'm not paying Bo Nix anything. he's more coachable, he's more athletic, he throws a fine ball. I think Aaron's just gotten to a point where I think Pittsburgh's about the only offer he had

and reportedly according to Scheftery was their third choice. Yeah, I mean, I do think it's pretty bizarre that he signs this contract and he's sporting a wedding ring. I mean, these quarterbacks, you know, who they're married to is kind of, I mean, they're pretty big stars, right? They're like actors, NBA stars. Josh Allen gets married. all know it. Not all these guys even married famous people like Josh Allen or

Tom Brady. They're married to other famous people. Patrick Mahomes married to his high school sweetheart. Peyton Manning's married to a girl. I think he dated in college. Who cares? This whole thing of like, I got things going on in my personal life, which I assumed it was negative stuff. Turns out maybe he was just getting married and wanted to push this off. It's just kind of

the, I've always been pro Aaron Rogers as a player because I thought he was incredible. You know, I thought in the peak of his powers, he's one of the best athletes in terms of their sport I've ever seen in my entire life, which is weird because when you look at the totality of his career, it almost feels underwhelming for how good he was. You know, I think he let down in the playoffs. I mean, they lost a couple years ago at home to Jimmy Garofalo and the 49ers offense. I think he scored 13 points. That can't happen. But I think this whole since, because we knew he was

going to go to Pittsburgh. It was just when he was going to sign. But that picture of him with the wedding ring is just a little bizarre. I mean, there's really no way around it, right? And you've been on this forever. Listen, as someone that got, I got married for the first time at 40 years old. Now, there is a, and a lot of my friends and my brother got married in their late 20s, early 30s, your life is dramatically different. You know, I mean, obviously then you have kids. It is a completely different lifestyle. And he's just kind of been in this weird spot. Obviously, also as a player, he's no longer the same. His mobility is gone. He's just not a dominant player You can argue Tom Brady had a 20-year prime.

A 20-year prime. Now, even though he was really good past 40, I don't really consider it maybe 41, and then the prime ended. But he was still through a great ball at 40. I'd give him that first year and a half in Tampa. I think he was pretty damn good. 20-year-prime. People forget this.

Aaron's last year in Green Bay, they played an average Lions team at home and lost. and it was Aaron, I think it was Aaron's last, was it his last game as a Packer. And he got outplayed by golf in that game. Early outplayed. Aaron, so that year, if you go back statistically, Aaron was a B plus quarterback. He didn't play his first three years in the league, right? He sat in the bench. His fourth year he started, he went six and ten.

I can argue Aaron had less than a 10 year prime. I mean, because he hasn't done anything in four years. He didn't do anything the first four years. So, I mean, Aaron's prime was about half of Brady's. I'd give him 2009 to about 21, 20. I mean, he won the MVP in 21, 20 and 21. Yeah, about 10, 11 years, max. Think about that.

Brady's at 20. And I, and I, so if you really look at Peyton Manning's pride about 14. Usually, you know, I mean, Mahomes may be one of those 17 to 18 years. Aaron just, and I think a lot of it was just Aaron. I don't think he was as committed in the offseason. I think he wasn't, you know, I thought he was really good the year he went six and 10, but I didn't think he was, I just thought he was talented. He wasn't a winning quarterback.

But I think a lot of that is just, I've always been one of these people. I'm not impressed by people that get jobs. I'm impressed by people that keep them. Like, I think there is a real skill to being LeBron James or Tom Brady. or Derek Jeter. And it's a commitment on nutrition, what you eat, sleep. And I think that's a skill. I think discipline's a skill.

Maybe people don't. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe mental health professionals would argue that discipline is, you know, it's not a skill. Anyone who says that not is a moron from the Navy SEALs to our athletes to our CEOs. What are they? 100% it's a skill. And I just look at Aaron's prime. It's half of Brady.

And you can say what you want, but that last year and, Green Bay, he was a B quarterback, and he's gone downhill since. I mean, he's just a pocket guy now, and he's not even like an elite pocket guy. He's just a pocket guy. Well, I think when you look at his contemporaries, or definitely his peers over his career, because he came in a lot later than Peyton and Tom, he was way more physically gifted than those guys. Those guys couldn't run Tom and Peyton. Couldn't run at all. I would say Drew Breeze definitely wasn't a mobile quarterback and he just had more skills. I mean, I would say Peyton and Drew Brees are known at best average arms, right? They hung their hat on accuracy. Tom had the best arm of that trio,

but those guys worked like they could get cut next year. I mean, everyone you ever talked to that was around those guys, they were discussed like they were Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant or Tiger Woods, their addiction to their craft and how much it meant to them. I do think Aaron really benefited a lot. I mean, Tom Brady goes to the Patriots. who sucked, right? Him and Bill turned that thing around. Peyton went to the Colts who had the number one overall pick. And Drew Brie's and Sean Payton showed up to the Saints that were known as the Ains.

This guy went to the Green Bay Packers, who were a model franchise for 15 plus years before he got there. And I always think that like, listen, him and Devante, sometimes, you know, you kind of make up your own problems in your head when life's going a little too good. And it felt like those two guys, I mean, they have to look back after the couple of bumpy years of going, we actually had it pretty good. You know, it can be a little boring in this town, but we had a lot of success here for a reason. I'm looking up, Aaron, Drew Breeze's career from the first five years with the Chargers and then, you know, that 15-year run or whatever it was with the Saints. If I go back to Drew Breeze, a smaller athlete, you can say his first great year was 2004 with the Chargers. So let me count these years. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,

9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 50, 16. I would say Breeze had either 16 or 17 elite years. I mean, and I think Brady's 20 plus. So, and again, this isn't Bash Aaron. It's just when you go, and I've said this before to you, if Stafford won another Super Bowl, Stafford was better in college, he was better early, he was much better later.

If Stafford plays three more years, and under McVeigh, they would be good, they have, I mean, they've got their shit rolling. If he gets one more Super Bowl, you're going to look at Matt Stafford and you're going to look at Aaron Rogers and you're going to have to have a real hard conversation because that means Stafford's playoff record is going to be significantly better than Aaron Rogers, which is basically 500. People think I'm crazy when I say this. Stafford has more to gain legacy than any player in the league over the next three years.

I will say this about Rogers when it came to Stafford. He was one of his biggest proponents over the years. You know, when he was middle and away in Detroit, he's like, you guys don't realize. And obviously the football people held him in high regard, kind of got screwed that he got drafted to this franchise that. I mean, they're going to be kids right now in Detroit that have no clue how big of a joke that franchise used to be. I will say, I think Rogers kind of morphed a little more into like an NBA player, right, or like receivers off the neck than these quarterbacks. I mean, even Tom for a long period of time, just kind of shut his mouth,

kept his head down, dealing with Bill. I mean, Peyton, would he have ever gone to Denver if they hadn't cut him in Indy and he hadn't had the neck injury? He just would have played it out forever in Indianapolis. So, yeah, I just think Aaron, and part of it might be the nature of that franchise. You know, you've talked about this. a lot of people have over the years. There's no owner to really get involved and kind of calm everyone down.

Yes. Even just the basic of like, hey, you want to take my jet with your new wife or your buddies to wherever you want, just the, you know, the Eddie DeBardo, Jerry Jones, the robber craft, like kind of taking care of you. There's no, that guy doesn't really exist. So I honestly think that those guys, and if I was a Packer fan, we'll see how the Jordan Love stuff plays out. But it's like, God, why did these guys make such a big stick?

think we could have kept it rolling for a couple years. We have a really good coach. It's like, remember when he was having at odds with Goudicons? It's like, what, what are you actually mad about with him? Like, what did he do? You know, what are we talking about? And let's face it, his ego was really, really hurt with the Jordan Love draft pick. Well, looking back, and there have been a lot of articles, so was Tom. And what did Tom do? Went out and said, I'm going to dominate and win Super Bowls, and you're going to have to get rid of that guy, not me. Aaron kind of took the different tactic. Like, screw you guys. Get rid of me. And obviously age, let's face it. in the history of sports,

isn't Aaron's career parallel the most guys we've ever watched? Once you get to your late 30s, you get an injury, popped Achilles, and you're just never quite the same. And then usually you go to these weird franchises or in this scenario,

kind of a desperate one. I think they have a lot of guys from Cam Hayward to TJ to Minka that are like serious cats. This has got to be like, wait, we had to wait for you. It's not like,

you're the greatest thing since sliced bread here, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not, this, I think this year he'll win eight or nine games. He'll have 23 touchdowns, 10 picks. He'll be fine. I'll miss a game or two. But it is interesting when you look back. I think Aaron views himself as picked on or marginalized by the media. And when you just start looking at Peyton's career and Ben's career and Breeze's career and Brady's career and Elway and Marina, you just start looking at some

of these careers. Aaron's prime was just not as long. And some of that, he sat behind far, but I thought he aged really quickly. And you can speculate why he did, but he did. Okay, so I want to throw this out. The J.J. McCarthy stuff's kind of fascinating to me because he was the one guy in this quarterback class two years ago. I didn't like. I just didn't see it. I thought he was a bit small. I thought he was athletic enough. I'm always very, very cautious when people say he's a winner. What the F does that mean? Doesn't mean anything. Danny Werfel was a winner. Every Florida coach, every Florida quarterback. Hebo. Under Spurrier was a winner. Johnny Mansell was a winner. It doesn't mean anything.

I always believe that if you look at most NFL quarterbacks, they had, even Brock Prudy, who I don't love, they had to carry their college offense. Big Ben, Aaron Rogers, Philip Rivers, Eli Manning. You know, they're not playing with five-star guys. That's why Ohio State you think would have 10 great NFL quarterbacks. C.J. Stroud is their first really good one. USC's had very few great NFL quarterbacks. Alabama hasn't. LSU hasn't. Burrell obviously is, but he was a transfer.

But J.J. McCarthy, his last two years, he threw the ball over 30 times one time. He never trailed. He had a great run game. And so I look at him, and Ross Tucker came out with a story. And I think Ross is very credible guy. I don't know him, but very credible guy. He said, listen, there's concerns.

They wanted to re-sign Donald. And I heard the same thing. But because of my relationship with Donald, I wondered if people were telling me that. My source was telling me that because they knew I loved Donald. But they had said they actually want Sam. And I couldn't believe it. I'm like, no, you drafted J.J. McCarthy. He has to play.

If Ross Tucker says there's concerns, I believe that. Do you? Yeah. I mean, I think that going back to that Detroit game when he was really skinny on the sideline, you know, at the end of the season. after meeting multiple injuries. And I also think it gets back to the way in which he played. This was not a guy that had to carry his offense in college.

He handed the ball off and they played defense and they had 30 NFL guys over a two-year span. Right. I mean, look at Stetson Bennett was on a team that, you know, any decent quarterback could have navigated. And I think the concerning part is you have to massage this if you're the team. So it's like, okay, Darnold gets 55 plus million guaranteed from Seattle. It's like, you can't. They were like, we're not going to give him that. I think they wanted to keep Daniel Jones.

Remember, they made a big deal to bring him in on the practice squad last year. But then Chris Ballard starts sniffing around, hey, we'll give you $14, 15 million. So then they're thinking, well, how would this look if we match that or even give them a little bit more? It tells everyone we don't believe. So they were kind of in a weird spot. I think they would have loved, you know, Daniel Jones markets only 8 to 10 easier to justify. What did you start getting, once they gave Daniel Jones that money, I don't know where you stand on this.

I think Daniel Jones is going to be the starter week one. And that was before the kid hurt his injured, hit his shoulder. Oh, yeah, no, no. He was going to beat out Anthony Richardson. He's going to be the starter. I had an NFL GM told me he had never, this, last year, I texted him about Anthony Richardson. He goes, I've never seen an NFL quarterback that bad on accuracy on shit out in the flat.

And those were the exact words. He goes, the layup stuff is. brutal. He is badly missing layups. And so I thought Daniel Jones would beat him out in camp. Well, to me, what it is is a couple years ago, Trey Lance, it was over the moment they signed Sam Darnold as the two. And then Trey Lance wasn't even on the team. Might be harder to trade Anthony Richardson because of the injury. But I think this team's in a weird spot. They're all in on this roster. It's excellent. And they loaded up because they had J.J. McCarthy's rookie contract. They bought a bunch of guys in free agency. So their team, if you take a

told me they just had, Dak Prescott was their quarterback. I'd be like, well, if he just doesn't turn it over in the postseason, this team's going to be tough. You know, you put Brock Purdy on there, Super Bowl favorites, right? But this guy's never started an NFL game. And even going back to, remember De Harbaugh was suspended and the, and Sharon Moore, they didn't even pass the ball in the second half against Penn State.

It was a special team that he got to, you know, orchestrate and run as a quarterback. He was not asked like most of these quarterbacks in 2012. 25. So I'm very concerned because a lot of times also young quarterback, like Caleb got drafted number one overall. It went shitty. But ultimately it's like, okay, you know, the Bears hadn't made the playoffs. The expectations for this team, they just won 14 games. If they won like nine games and missed the playoffs, it would be catastrophic. There's a lot of pressure on a guy. I don't remember the last time a guy that was drafted this high was like expected anything less than the NFL. championship game. It gets to the Trey Lance and Anthony Richardson. Obviously, Trey was on a team that

was expected to compete for the Super Bowl. So it's different than just going to a team typically drafting in the top five. The Colt, same thing. Like you draft this guy in the top five, he's expected to be a playoff level quarterback. That's different than just going to some crappy team. Like ultimately, Jaden Daniels, who was incredible, the pressure on them to start the year wasn't that high, right? If they would have won six, seven games, he exceeded everything. Same thing with C.J. Stroud a couple years ago, but they got to kind of sneak up on everyone. There's no sneaking up. Minnesota is, I would say, one of the marquee teams in the league coming into the year. It's a tough spot for a young player that's like, what if week two,

we're down 10 and we're going to need you to throw it 45 times? And then all of a sudden, Justin Jefferson's not getting the ball. We know how those wide receivers are. I wouldn't blame them. The two stories in the NFL at quarterback that are fascinating are what is J.J. McCarthy and who will win the Brown starting job? Because so tomorrow, or the time this airs, it's mandatory minicamp. This is not voluntary OTA. So veterans can show up.

And my argument is this owner, Jimmy Haslam, drafted Johnny Mansell and Baker-Mayfield and signed to Sean Watson to an egregiously bad contract. He's desperate for a star at quarterback. He wants a star at quarterback. Well, Kenny Pickett's got no juice, Dylan Gabriel's 5-8, Joe Flacco's old. Shadour is the only potential star.

And if you look at the first five weeks, it's five top-10 offenses, then Aaron Rogers in Pittsburgh. And it's a lot of dynamic offenses and dynamic quarterbacks, Joe Burrell and Lamar Jackson. And, and again, Tua and Mike McDaniel, there's a lot of powerful offenses. If they're dull in the first six weeks, because they don't have a very good roster, they're probably a four-to-six-win team. my take is Jimmy Haslam's going to make a call and say, I want Shadour Sanders. History tells me this owner, we've seen this.

We saw the late great Jim Ursae get pissed off because Carson Wentz had a bad game in Jacksonville, and they shipped him out of town after a 27 and seven season, a 27 touchdown seven-pick season. Carson Wentz, that was his last good year. I think Shadur, the star power will matter. In 90% of markets, it doesn't. Cleveland at quarterback it does. So my guess is there's a lot of dull, small, old. Shadour by week eight is starting.

Do you think I'm out of my mind? Well, you're on board. I know you've been making, you know, tongue and cheek. Flacco's going to start week one, right? Are you on board there? Okay. If it gets to a point, the team's not going to be very good. You know, the defense can only carry you so long in the NFL.

It's an offensive league now with the rules. If they force him to start Sodor Sanders and the coach doesn't want to play him, I do think Kevin Stafansky, by the end of the year, we'll just quit. It'll be one of those situations where Stafansky and Barry, who are very highly thought of, and I was actually in the car today. I was listening to your show when you gave me a little shot out talking about how it was clear during the draft, right? They drafted, they overdraft, to keep the owner off their back, and then the kid kept falling. Yeah, you came up with that.

I think it's true because I asked GMs about Dylan Gabriel and they're like, he's not a third round draft pick. I thought, I knew people that thought the guy was undrafted because of this size. Not that he's not, I mean, he was an excellent college player and I mean, very productive.

But going in the third round, I think, was a jarring move for a lot of teams. Like, wow. And I truly believe they did it. And if the visuals of the owner hovering over him, but he was there in the fifth round,

I do think it's, you have to make plays in practice. I mean, they do have some start, you know, the Miles Garrett's and these guys that are playing every week. And the NFL, it's not like some of these other sports in baseball or basketball where you kind of go through the motions. Even if your team is out of it, you still like practice is hard. The games are hard.

So if you make a guy the starter, he'd better be showing something, especially if he's running the scout team. I remember when Purdy became the starter when Jimmy Garoppel and Trey Lance went down, it was easy to justify to the team because the Fred Warner's and the boasts were like, we love this guy in practice. We've been seeing him. It goes back to the Rogers and some of these guys that run the scout team. They earn street cred with the team. And I do think you throw a guy like that in.

The coach and the GM wouldn't just be behind the scenes. Like, what are we doing? The team could quit on you. But the owner has proven that he doesn't really care. I get asked a lot, like, how can these owners be so successful in whatever line of work they do and then such bad owners? And I do, you know, the thing with football that's different than just running a truck. trucking company or TEPR and is an investing firm. You can just buy your way out of stuff once you get so much capital and resources.

In football, like everyone, the salary cap is salary cap. You only have a limited amount of draft picks. And once you invest in a couple guys, like they do get a huge piece of your puzzle. Right. Like in Flying J, if you buy the wrong building, whatever, 10 million or I write off off to the next thing. And football, like some of like they got rid of Russell Wilson and Denver, it really They crippled their cop immediately.

So you can't just buy your way out of stuff regardless how much cash the owner actually has in its pocket. NBA Finals are here. This is your last chance to bet on the NBA until next season. Draft King Sportsbook, an official betting partner of the NBA, a finals to remember pulling out all the stops. One team's going to be crown champ. Who do you got winning it?

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What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally... calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay.

Jen she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French, me. And she likes Clay? Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque, Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I wanted to move on to the Knicks. So I see this report this morning. and it's from Shams talking about how they're just calling up around all these big shot coaches in the league Jason Kidd, Ema Udoca, Quinn Snyder, Chris Finch. What do you make of this bizarre behavior from the Knicks right now?

I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but James Dolan, who's been in a band, I'm not sure if he still is, views himself as an artist. And that's why he is, his greatest achievement is not the Knicks. I mean, he inherited the cable vision from his dad, right? It's the sphere in Vegas, which is a remarkable. Have you been there? I think you have been there six times, Colin. I absolutely love it. Yeah, so it's a remarkable musical engagement achievement, all time in the world.

And that's really where his heart is. Irving Aves off, a former great promoter. Now I think he's MGM management. He's one of his closest friends. He was, you know, he had a record label. that's who James Dolan is. So when he wants to get a GM, he goes after a star, Phil Jackson,

then he wanted Steve Kerr and Amari Stottomire on bad knees out of Phoenix, and Tibbs isn't his kind of guy. So who does he go after? Jason Kidd, who's a star. He's interested in Kevin Durant, who's a star. That's who James Dolan is. He hangs around stars.

He loves stars. He's a creative. This is not a criticism. But I think he listens. to his players grumble, you know, he sat down with his players. And again, he relates to artists and athletes and stars. Just go look at the history. And when he was doing the sphere for two years, he was disengaged from the team. And they got very patient and very pragmatic and very basketbally and very Villanova-ish. And that's Tibbs. And so you get rid of Tibbs. It's not the same

culture. It's not the same team. You still have the Villanova guys, but it won't feel the same. So it just feels like James. And I almost, you know, he reminds me a little bit of Jim Ursay in that Ursay would rather sit with his guitar and hang out with Dylan outside of football more than anything else. And I think James Dolan's a little bit of that. And I think he's an emotional guy. He's an artist.

He relates to artists and listens to his stars. And he didn't have a plan. And I think it's a big, big. mistake. This, by the way, this is what every Nick fan dreaded is that when he came back from the sphere, he would get hands on. And there are various reports on who has their fingerprints on this, but they're not getting rid of Tibbs.

He just signed a new deal without Dolan, you know, acquiescing to a suggestion or making the move himself. So in the end, this is what the Knicks. man this league's crazy owners in the NFL and the NBA you know that all owners now jason are billionaires it was 10 years ago they weren't they made they were worth 600 million or 800 million they wouldn't blow out staffs they didn't want to write a 46 million dollar check that is a rounding error now to these owners and they're all i see it in the NFL all the time guys will just blow out staffs david tepper write a 60 80 million dollar check you don'ters didn't want to do

at 8, 10, 12 years ago, they do now. So I don't know who they're going to land. They, I mean, they've been turned down by seven coaches, all the good ones, Finch and Emmao Duka and Jason Kidd, and they're just getting turned down by everybody. Yeah, Matt Isbigh, blew out of staff twice within two years of owning the team. It's completely ridiculous.

I, you know, it's fascinating because, like, I tried to look at it in a very open-minded way, because, like, I actually do think Jason Kidd is a better coach now than he gets credit for. A couple years ago, I wasn't super high on him, but he, just like anybody else, as a competitor, has been doing it for a while now, and he's gotten pretty good at it. Like, I is looking at the Knicks for a second. Like, I agree with you in terms of the kind of topsy-turvy, unstable nature with which you look and you portray to people when you fire your coach in a situation like this. But I also think Tibbs left some meat on the bone with this Knicks team.

I thought they underachieved all season. Like right out the gates, they underachieved. He brought it all this talent. He's not a creative offensively. He's not. The team got very predictable offensively. I thought the major issue with this team schematically was spacing, and it actually impacted both ends of the floor.

On offense, what you're mentioning in terms of creative, what he did on offense in terms of his creativity, the spacing for this team was extremely poor, which made life very difficult. But it had a trickle-down effect in the sense that poor spacing also affects your transition defense. Like, if you don't have your guys situated in proper spaces on the floor, then on misses and turnovers,

you don't have guys in position to be back in transition defense, and the Pacers annihilated them in transition. And worse than ever in Game 6, like embarrassing fashion in Game 6, the Seacum and everyone else was just getting runout layup after run out, dunk after runout layup. So like I did think there was like a defensible case to move on from Tibbs to more of a tactician.

I actually see Jason Kidd as a solid option in the sense that he was a master of modern four-out spacing with Luca when he was there, which actually, I think, is a really natural fit with Brunson. And Brunson played for a kid before. So there's like some natural stuff there. And then he did a good job with transition defense with the Mavs, despite them not being super athletic. So I'd give him credit for that. That would work.

The thing there is it's just unrealistic. And if I'm Jason Kidd, why would, like, I don't actually see the Knicks as that great of a job. Like insane New York pressure. The roster is really good, but it's not amazing. It's not like... By the way, Mikhail Bridges wants a new contract. O.G. is getting paid. Brunson's getting paid.

Like Mitchell Robinson. These guys are getting paid. Like that Dallas thing, Lively's not getting paid. Cooper Flagg won't get paid. I don't know if Max Christie doesn't cost much. AD's getting paid, but you get 24 and 11. Like, I look at Dallas and I'm like, I get excellence when they're healthy, and I get an incredible top end with Lively

and flag. I know what the Knicks are. And there's a ceiling and I see it all the time. Yeah, exactly. Like I don't see it as being the kind of job that Jason Kidd would be willing to basically sabotage his situation and force his way there. And then like the other names I saw, I didn't even particularly like, like EMA Udoca is a motivator. That's like his primary role. And I don't think that's a specific need for the Knicks. Like I think the specific thing than NICs need is just someone to come in and take them to the next level in terms of their offensive organization. and their spacing, which will lead to them having a bunch of additional benefits and transition defense. I understand there's a hesitancy to call a guy like Mike Malone. And the reason why is

because he has a reputation for being a hard ass and Tibbs was kind of a hard ass and like I don't think they want to go down that route again. But there's like hard ass and then there's Tibbs. Like Mike Malone leaned on his starters big minutes, but still not even close to what Tibbs did. And one of the things I'll say about Mike Malone, he was an excellent defense and spacing coach. He made a championship defense out of non-championship defensive talent. And they were always consistently one of the best floor spacing teams in the league. And they were very good. And again, we can, we got to at least acknowledge Yokic was there. So Yokic makes it a lot easier, obviously. But he specifically was very good at making

spacing opportunities out of non-spacers, guys like Aaron Gordon, guys like Christian Brown, guys like Bruce Brown over the years, guys like Russell Westbrook even. So like fitting a guy like Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, some of these non-shooting types of players, even Mikhail Bridges, who has struggled a lot as a shooter in this postseason run. Like, I actually think Mike Malone is a really good fit for this next team. I think he's a completely reasonable option that doesn't involve you doing something insane, like calling around the league, because here's what gets crazy. Let's say you call the Mavs and they're like, okay, sure, let's talk about Jason Kidd.

What are you going to offer us? We already acknowledge this is not a championship roster. So you're going to give up assets for a coach. You need players. You need talent in there. So like specifically defensive talent. court. So I don't really understand what the end game is here. Yeah, I just, I am on the short list of people that think Dallas is going to be really good,

really fast. I think Flag and Lively are, you know, they're Duke guys. They're going to be quick learners. They play at the highest level of competition collegiately. I think one's going to be one's 21 or 22. He's going to be a rim protector for the next decade. So Cooper Flagg can be out in transition, won't have to worry about being down low and getting jammed. up, which has always been what LeBron loves. He doesn't want to be messed up in that junk. He wants that ball out and up the court. So, and I just, you know, PJ Washington, Christy, if Kyrie comes back, I'm not sure what

they're going to do with him. A.D., I would forget the taxes, forget everything else. I would not lead Dallas. I think Dallas is a good job. The situation that's fascinating to me is Houston because I think, I think, you know, you I think right now San Antonio is about ready to pop. So I like San Antonio and they could get Janus. And I think OKC is set.

And I think Houston's going to be in that group of three young teams a little lost. Because Jalen Green, I'm in Thompson's excellent. Sengoon's excellent. But there's just a lot of athleticism that's not very good in a half-court game. And I think OKC has popped. San Antonio's going to pop. And I, so I could, if I'm, if I'm Adoka, I, I would consider the job. I think Houston's one of those that, look, like the national media, we hover in, we drop in, we go, oh, I got Houston.

I, I didn't like what I saw. I'll be honest. And I think you can push them around. I don't think they have a lot of half court possessions that are just sort of lost. You don't get good looks. They look a little disorganized. I, but Jason kid to me, the next five years in Dallas are going to be fascinating with just this trajectory that goes through the roof.

The roster is weird because it's kind of imbalanced in the sense that they just have an absurd amount of front court talent. Like you don't need lively Gafford, Anthony Davis, PJ Washington, and Cooper Flag. Like that's five starting caliber players that all play the four or the five. So like I do see an imbalance there. but there's an insane amount of talent. And I actually go the other way there, which is like they can afford to go into training camp

and just bring all these guys in and start playing and basically look around the league and be like, who's going to throw us the godfather offer for PJ Washington, for Daniel Gaffer, for Anthony Davis. You could argue that AD is going to be the target that someone goes after. Because AD's hurt now, so he's got that classic everyone's down on him. They think he's old. They think he's beat up.

AD comes out of training camp looking like he's in great shape, motivated kicks everybody's butt for a couple of months, he instantly becomes like a dude you could flip for an enormous mountain of assets. And so I look at Dallas as a very, very healthy situation moving forward. It's not the same Luca Donchitz were right on the doorstep of the title, but they do have a lot of big picture potential. We got a report from Shams today that Kevin Durant and his business partner,

Rich Climand, are kind of canvassing the league looking for potential opportunities. The five names. that were thrown out in the Shams report where the Houston Rockets, San Antonio Spurs, the Miami Heat, the Minnesota Timberwolves, and the New York Knicks. Where did your head go

when you saw that report this morning? Well, I think he works everywhere. I think there's very few players that fit everywhere, and KD is one of them. He doesn't necessarily need to be the soul of the team. He doesn't need the ball constantly in his hands. You get great length, a willing defender,

24, 26, I think KD fits everywhere. You know, if I was KD, I think he fits New York well, but Brunson has the ball in his hands. I mean, in his mind, is he thinking, Brunson's got some Westbrook, like, dribble the air out of the ball and I'm sitting in the corner. Like, I could see him, like, I've been through that. you know, Kyrie, who he played with also, can be a little bit like that. So I could see KD just saying, you know, because he's got the leverage here, I could see him saying, I've kind of done the ball-centric guard thing. I just don't want it again.

Pat Riley and Spolster are very convincing people. Miami's a great place to play. No state tax. It's a winter league, a lot of warm weather. Like Miami's a really attractive place out east. But I'm a KD fan. I think he fits in a lot of places. And Minnesota, he obviously fits.

And we've talked about this. Like, LeBron and his prime was great, but he had to be the offensive ecosystem. You had to, Chris Bosch had to reduce, you know, got marginalized. Kevin Love can get marginalized. Guys, get away from the rim. You know, Kyrie Irving, you can't have the ball. So Kevin never provides that kind of obstacle.

Like he just kind of fits. So I can tell you this, if you were a GM and you talk to a coach or players, a lot of guys would raise their hands and say get KD. Because I think he loves basketball. He's a good teammate. He's got a good sense of humor. He doesn't need to be the media darling. I think he's really liked and respected in the league. I 100% agree.

I love the point you made about his fit. Like he, all five of these teams, the basketball makes a lot of sense. There's one, the one team that I was like, that doesn't make as much of a sense in terms of the basketball fit to me was the Spurs. Because it's like, I don't love the idea of putting a super thin front court player that likes the perimeter next to another super thin front court player that likes the perimeter. I wasn't a huge fan of that one.

It also just doesn't really fit San Antonio's timeline. So the Spurs one was weird for me. The heat, I like the fit. I just don't know why KD would go there because it just feels like another move to a team that's not good enough to win the title. Like I'm just not sure that it like is, is Kevin Durant, Tyler Harrow, Bama,

is that enough to win the title? I don't, I don't think so. When I'm watching that kid, Benedict, Matherin, yeah, Matherin for Indy tonight. I mean, I'm not trying to overreact here, but when I'm watching him and I'm like, Jesus, he's just a kid. Like, you're going to get this two out of three games next year.

Like this is, I mean, by the way, again, I think, we'll see the third leading score on the team or fourth leading score this year. You're like he coming into the, coming into the series, he was actually the highest per minute score for the Pacers in this playoff run. Because I was in a shorter role, but his like points per 36 minutes was the highest on the team. Yeah.

Okay. So I watch him and I think, oh, he's going to become a full-time starter. And it will be Seacum, Halley, and Matherin are their three leading scores. So, I mean, I just, I'm looking at the east and I'm like, I think Indiana is going to take a leap next year. You know, they'll play with a finals. level confidence. So I just, I don't think, I, I just, I, and I'm not just saying this because they're up

two to one. I look at Indiana and I'm like, man, that is a team with, I mean, outside of, I mean, Siakum, he is what he is. If I feel like 75% of Indiana, all those players will be better next year. I mean, Siakum's game is his game. better than they were last year. Yeah, it's just like, all of them. I was just so impressed with them tonight.

So we can start talking about with Tatum out next year, it's going to run through Indy. We've got to be honest about this. It's going to run through Indy. They are deep. They're well coached. Most of their players are ascending. But East is running through Indy. Yeah, I agree.

And I don't see the heat as like an obvious, like, oh, he goes there and he's all of a sudden the favorite in the Eastern Conference. reference. I like the Rockets fit. I think his skill set is desperately needed as a guy who's a shot creator. Oh, God. Shoot from the perimeter. He also brings length at the rim, which is not like the Rockets are a big strong team. They're not like a long arms team.

Like Jabari Smith Jr. is like the one guy they have that offers. The Rockets need him. Jason, I would argue the Rockets need him more than any other team that he would play for. They need him. Their half court offense gets lost a lot. Yeah. And he would go in there and immediately vault them into top tier championship contention. So that move makes some sense.

I will say by far out of these five teams, my favorite fit is the Timberwolves. It's a similar lack of redundancy in the sense that he brings kind of like exactly what the team doesn't have, which is a rock solid secondary ball handler next to Ant who can really generate shots for his team. But they can surround KD with elite super physical defense, which is what he hasn't had in these other destinations. And also similarly, Nasreed, not super vertical, Julius Randall not super vertical. Rudy Gober is vertical, but like they, Kevin Durant would be a guy at the four spot different from Kat last year, different from Nas, who brings real vertical length to the table where you can imagine Jaden McDaniels, Kevin Durant and Rudy Gobert on the floor together in that front line.

And it's like all arms, just everywhere. And it would just be really, really difficult to handle. But it's going to be really interesting. I'm hopeful that we get a pretty quick, like, a set of action here in late June where we find out where all these guys land. But Colin, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to join us tonight. It was good to see you. Colin, it was great to see you, man. Great to see you, buddy.

Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called. Hey, Jonas.

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