The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Prime Cuts - Buss Family SELLS Lakers, KD’s Preferred Destination Caitlin Clark Exceeding Expectation, Ja Morant A “Cautionary Tale”

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week! First, Colin’s joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1! They start with the major breaking news that the Buss family has sold the Los Angeles Lakers at a $10 billion dollar valuation, and why it’s a massive positive for the Lakers to no longer be a mom & pop operation (3:00). They compare and rank the biggest brands in American sports (13:00), and argue that star players under contract can do as much for a valuation as the brand’s legacy. They pivot to Caitlin Clark and debate whether the media is UNDERRATING her superstardom and how great she will become on the court (15:30). Then, he’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight”, to break down other top NBA storylines. They discuss what to make of Ja Morant’s future as his trajectory is pointing down (31:00), and explain why Morant is a cautionary tale (35:45).  Finally, they react to the reports that Kevin Durant prefers the Spurs as a trade destination and debate whether it’d be the best fit out of his potential suitors (40:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

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Again, create the account. The redeem code C-O-L-I-N, $20 off. Download the GameTime app today. Last minute, tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. All right. We get Nick right for an hour, and it's a newsbreaking day. The Lakers just sold for a $10 billion evaluation, which I've believed for a long time, Nick, all these sports franchises are undervalued. Whenever they say, you know, the Cowboys are worth $7 billion. My take is if somebody in Saudi Arabia had a good month with oil, they buy them for $13. billion because you don't know if Google is going to be around in 20 years or Microsoft. You know the Dallas Cowboys are going to be around in 20 years. In fact, I remember reading a story years and years ago.

They went back to like 1980 and they took the 30 leading companies on the Dow Jones. And 25 years later, only one was still like a really, it was like Chevron or something. And so my point is the Mark Walters group is the Dodger owner. It's a really good group. and it does make me think, okay, the bomb and pop Lakers are over. Because that's been the big knock in L.A. is that, I mean, people forget, little old Dan Gilbert could buy the bus family four times. They've been one of the poorest NBA ownership groups. Correct. And one of the poorest from a net worth perspective.

And I would argue that they have been one of the more poorly run organizations in the league. and I know that's weird because they have the second most championships, and they just got Luca and LeBron went there. But I think that they have squandered a lot of opportunities. I think that since Dr. Bus passed, there are very few things you can say the Lakers do top notch in the league. And while they have been, you know, willing to spend, I think they've, you know, last decade they've spent like the seventh most money,

they should be, the seventh most for Los Angeles Lakers is not maximizing the market and the brand. I understand it's not baseball, so there is a cap, like, and in the new NBA with the aprons, just spending recklessly can really hamstring you, but this is a massive net positive for the Los Angeles Lakers, for their fans, in my opinion. You should not have, they're in a weird spot where similar to the Cowboys, where ownership's primary source of income is the team. And that's one of the reasons I think the cowboys don't necessarily spend the way they should. And that's how I have felt about the Lakers.

So listen, I don't know much about Mark Walters. I know that he bought 26% of the team from, I think, Anshutes or whomever, with the guarantee. Part of that was, if the buses sell, I get the first opportunity. and now he's in. Now, I agree with you. Historically, sports franchises have been undervalued. I wonder if we are now getting to wear $10 billion, $10 billion, kind of like, that's a lot of money. So the Celtics sold for $6 billion.

The GDP of Boston, the gross domestic product, is $600 million annually. It's a trillion in Los Angeles. The Los Angeles economy would be the 20th biggest economy in the world, meaning it would be bigger than about 185 countries. And so. And they own the, the Lakers own their arena. So that's an important. So like you just, if the arena's worth $2 billion, given where it is in the real estate and whatever, so now it's not six versus 10, it's six versus eight. And you take the fact that L.A. is a bigger market.

And, you know, as much as this will pain our buddy Bill Simmons. the Lakers are the biggest brand in basketball. Listen, the Celtics were in the finals two years ago. It didn't get a good rating. It didn't get a number. I mean, when the Lakers are in the final, regardless of who the star is, it generally gets a much bigger rating. Well, yes, it's also true. The Lakers have never been in the finals without one of the biggest stars in the league.

Well, that's not a lot of like, oh, that Lakers time they made the finals with that scrappy underachieving team. No, it's LeBron or Kobe or Shack or Magic or Kareem. or will, but still your point stands. Yeah, no, they are, the, this is a fun one because you did your Mount, what was it? Mount Rushmore. Just more. Because they're just more than everyone else.

If we were to do, God, this is, this is corny and make funnable content. It also, I'm sure, will crush on TikTok or something. If we were to do the Mount Rushmore franchises in American sports. Four. To me, there are three no-brainers, and then people would argue about the four. Fourth, but the three no-brainers are, the New York Yankees,

the Dallas Cowboys, and the Los Angeles Lakers. Those to me, do you think I'm missing anything there? I think those are the three brands that are truly, every corner of the world, somebody's walking around wearing a t-shirt, even if they've never heard of the team. Yeah, I think, I will say this. I think the LA Dodgers,

because of the Walters group, perfect spring, summer, fall weather, Otani now is, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Dodger games are now, an event. There are fans from the Pacific Rim every home game. Road attendance for the Dodgers is number one in the league. They played the Yankees. I think it was last year. It felt like 25% of the crowd was Dodger fans. They travel incredibly well. I think the Dodgers over the last

eight, since they've been purchased from the Mark Walters group, I think they have become, and I mean this, I think they're a step ahead of the Yankees. They don't have all the pennants. They don't have all the titles. But this ownership group is much more. It's got deeper pockets. It's more aggressive. I mean, the way they are pushing contracts down the road, they are a revolutionary franchise.

But they're not a bigger brand than the New York Yankees. I think they're getting close. I think Otani changes it. I really do. Well, if the idea is like Otani brings in a whole similar to, I understand, I think he brings in the Pacific Rim. Yeah, like what Yao Ming did for the Houston Rockets, where all of a sudden it's like you have this whole new market.

But if, so the, because I really, the, maybe eventually the Dodgers get there. If it's Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers is the three. The teams across sports competing for that fourth spot, Dodgers definitely are in the contention. The Celtics are the warriors? No, probably not. because that's good. The Warriors are like the Chiefs in that it's the supernova of the moment in Mahomes or Steph Curry, but they don't have a history to where they're this big brand. So do you think the Dodgers now have surpassed the Cubs? Yes. As the second biggest brand in baseball. Yes. Okay. Because again, remember, Chicago wanted the Olympics. Why couldn't they get them? Because they were not considered a global city. They were considered maybe our they're like Chicago is one best North American city seven years in a row from Condi Noss,

architecture. It's an unbelievable city. But it's not viewed as an international city. D.C., San Francisco, L.A., New York. Boston similarly is not necessarily seen. It's seen as kind of provincial, provincial, parochial. So I think they've surpassed. And the Cubs, the Ricketts family, which by the way, they live about five minutes from where I'm sitting right now,

they are um it seats 36,000. Their revenues just don't, they're not close. They're just not close anymore. So, um, and I think the Cubs are historic and they matter domestically, but I don't think they pull a big number for that might be right. And it also might be a lot of the benefit of the Cubs, um, when a way or benefits their wrong word, but brand recognition, for lack of better term, of the Cubs had to do with, if you're a millennial, when you were growing up with like basic cable, for some reason, you got the Cubs

games because of WGN, so you could like watch your team and the Cubs. And so they, they had that. And now people can watch whatever teams they want. I just saw the, who do you, sorry for this slight detour, but after the Cowboys, what do you think the biggest brand in football is. Like, I hesitate in the moment it's obviously the Chiefs, but you wonder, like, if

Mahomes retired, like, then the Chiefs for everyone, nobody cares. If you bought the Chiefs today, well, you would have to consider Andy Reed and Patrick Mahomes part of the buy. So this idea, well, the brand, well, what is the brand? Right now, Jerry Jones

is 80. They're dysfunctional. Their roster's bad. There's value to it. But Kansas City's got the best quarterback in the league for the next 10 years. So, I mean, when LeBron James went from the Miami Heat back to Dan Gilbert and Cleveland, I talked to somebody in that equity space. He said that was a $400 million day for Dan Gilbert. The Cavs without LeBron, even with Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell, LeBron changed the, it was a paradigm shift economically for Cleveland. But literally, Ken Griffey saved baseball in Seattle.

LeBron James changed the economy. Taylor Swift's tour, give you an example, made $2.1 billion, sold 10 million tickets. That is double the next biggest tour ever. So it's only big because of one reason, the artist. So if you count, I mean, let's be honest, if you bought a soccer franchise 10 years ago and Ronaldo had an eight-year contract. It would make it worth half a billion dollars more. So I think the Chiefs with Mahomes, that adds, to me, that adds half of, somewhere between

$500 billion and a billion dollars. They go from $6 billion to $7 because of Mahomes. Well, so that's the other piece of this. The other piece of this is, if the most valuable team in the NBA is now worth $10 billion, dollars, what is the most valuable team in the NFL worth? Is it 15 billion? Like, honestly, like, what is, if this is the new, because you can't tell, like, as much as, as big of a brand as Lakers are, and I understand the NBA's new TV deal, I get all that. There is nothing that is the machine that is the NFL.

So if the lake, if we now have Lakers 10 billion, Celtics, 6 billion, you know, as the metrics, than the, if, forget the Cowboys. I'm trying to think of a good, you know, a good, if the San Francisco 49ers were for sale, are they a $10 billion franchise? Caitlin Clark, obviously, a huge story and the controversy around it. And I was thinking about,

I was pretty hard on the WNBA when Caitlin Clark came in. And I thought, guys, you can't open up with a New York Liberty in the Connecticut Sun, you want to groove her into some wins because remember she went from the final four into camp, into playing. And the WNBA, they probably knew she would be good. They didn't think she'd quite be this good.

But it's getting to be a little bit like MJ. And they've done a better job this year. They had an easier schedule. They've put the games on television. So the WNBA took a lot of heat, a lot of heat. and Val Ackerman, the commissioner's like, okay, we got ourselves a complete Taylor Swift and tennis shoes rock star. And they've done a much better job this year. The officiating is not great, but the league's now just starting to make real money now, right? Like, so it's the officials,

maybe the last part, you know, it's... Well, yeah, I wonder with that, and I don't know, I'm not educated enough on this about what the hierarchy of officiating is, but obviously, the best basketball officials in the world or in the NBA, want to, officiate in the NBA. I shouldn't say the world. Let's just, let's just do the U.S. I assume the second best, like men's college basketball. Well, yeah.

I would imagine the third best might be women's college basketball, because up until recently, that was a far bigger industry than the WMB. Like, so has the, and again, I am just speculating here, but is the WMBA simply not Yeah. Picking from the, you know, are the people who are the best officials are like, well, it's way better jobs in officiating than I can get. Listen, they flew. So I assume that's going to be.

They flew commercial airlines a year ago. And I, yeah. I mean, the NBA moved out of that in like the 80s. So it's like, it's just a different ballgame. But I was thinking about this. Most of the time the media gets it right when it predicts an all-time star. In fact, I would. argue, and I think people listening to this would push back, that we undersold Tiger.

Nobody thought Tiger was going to have the lowest scoring average ever, was going to have the tied for the most career wins ever, has the greatest earnings ever. Nobody pretty, not even Nike would have guessed that. No, and within five years have the scoring record at all four majors. I mean, the Tiger slam. You know, the Tiger slam. Yeah. No, no, no.

You're right. Tiger was Tiger. LeBron. Serena. LeBron, I would argue all the all-time grades that turned into all-time grades also actually kind of exceeded expectations. Most of the time, I think Bryce Harper at 16 was considered arguably the baseball prospect ever. He's turned out, eight-time All-Star, two-time National League MVP, 340 home runs plus. That is a, if you would have said that when he was 16 on Sports Illustrated. He's going to be an eight-time All-Star, two-time MVP.

He'd be like, yeah, for the best prospect ever, that's in that elite class. Sure. But I think Caitlin Clark, LeBron and MJ, I think they're better. And I thought Caitlin was going to be good. But Gino Oriema, UConn's coach came out and said, and this guy knows basketball. He's the best recruiter in the history of the sport. He's like this idea she's going to walk into the WNBA and crush people. I know.

But here's the thing. all the Yukon folks had like the legendary Yukon players who were then in media and then Gino they all kind of in my opinion had a bias of man this was supposed to be what everyone was saying about Paige Beckers a year ago but Paige had blown out her knee and she missed time and all of that and so they I think that they and they also under estimated what a badass Clark was going to be. And I think they also looked at it and said, well, she's great and going to be great. But she's not better than Breanna Stewart or Diana Tarazi.

And they, you know, if they had a transition, she will do. And the answer is she's a, she is already one of the four best players in the league. Oh, yeah. She is already an absolute, and I say this in the kindest words, an asshole on the court, like the way you kind of need to be, but it's something people historically like in their athletes, like a trash, Larry Byr, Michael Jordan, a trash talker, you know, hard ass. And she is already impacting winning. I think she has the best per game plus, Mike.

minus in the league of everyone that's not on the New York Liberty. The liberty is just crossing. Ten years ago. So the quality of WNBA play in the last 10 years has improved more than any league anywhere. The players are sure. The nutrition's better. The strength is better. Go YouTube at WNBA game 10 years ago.

They did not pass like this. Candice Parker 10 years ago led the league and assists at five and a half a game. A game. not only is Caitlin Clark the best shooter, the best guard, the most influential. She's also dealing nine assists per game. So what she's done is she's really changed the tempo. She's doubling these all-time assist numbers or close to it and giving you threes and shooting nine feet beyond the arc. So, I mean, as much as I liked her, and I thought she would be really good, I remember saying on the air,

She's going to be really good top 10 player really fast. I didn't think she'd beat this. No, listen, she, I agree with you that I do think she is, and in contributing to winning, exceeding expectations. I also think that, and maybe eventually we'll get there, but there are so much in my, I don't know what you said on the air about this today because I missed it, but so much of the social media pearl clutching of basically

we need to protect Caitlin Clark. I just think it's so I think it's patronizing and I also think it fails to recognize this is in my opinion the best case scenario for the league. The fact that

she is has this swagger that there and Brew made this point, and I thought it was a really good one. The fact that yesterday's altercations primarily happened with Caitlin against other white players was actually a really nice

thing because it removed any of the bullshit like, oh, are the black players don't like her? No, you know who doesn't like Caitlin Clark? Most of her opponents. You know, who historically is not that popular in sports,

the young, awesome, swaggery trash talking player. That player usually has allies on their team and their fans. And that's it. Got choked by Dr. Jay. Everybody hated Larry. Right. And so, and so that's awesome. Here's another thing that's awesome. This is only going to make Caitlin better and tougher and stronger. That's great. The fact that it is hard and that, like, because the idea, because some of Caitlin's, like there is a real lunatic fringe on the internet about this conversation. And I hate doing in life, I don't actually really think both sides are a problem very often.

In the Caitlin Clark thing, it is both sides. It is people on both ends of the spectrum are out of their minds. And the biggest Caitlin fans are like, the league, this is the league's cash count. And if they, if they're not suspending these other players, she could get hurt. Like, give me a break. It was a light shove. She fell down. She's going to be fine.

The fever are going to be in big games for a long time. It is, she is sustainably drawing eyeballs. And I do think it is not while people pointed out correctly. Oh, man, when she was out, the ratings dropped. The other piece of this is the ratings dropped, but were still higher than pre-Kaitland Clark WMBA, which means, while, yes, some people are just showing up for her, some people showed up for her and we're like, oh, I like basketball and this is a pretty good product. I'll stick around even if she's not there, at least some people did.

It's the best thing imaginable for the league. It's the best thing imaginable for her. And it is for us, you know, herein, hockey ended last night, basketball probably ends tomorrow in the NBA. It'll be nice to have like a captivating sports story for the summer other than, you know, baseball, so I'm excited about it. NBA Finals are here. This is your last chance to bet on the NBA until next season.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast.

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis,

and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genschen went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I. heart women's sports. Okay, so I feel vindicated. So I have, this has been one of my strongest

NBA takes forever, which is if you're under 6'4 in this league and have the ball in your hands a lot, if you cannot shoot John Wall, you know, Westbrook, Derek Rose, John Moran, you're going to have to drive to the basket against bigger players and you're going to get hurt more often. if you're Steve Nash or Steph Curry and can shoot, it can prolong your career. You can do a, you know, you don't have to drive. You get a lot of no contact looks. And my take on John Morant was, yes, I always said I thought he was a poor man's Derek Rose. He's about 15 pounds less than Derek Rose.

And, you know, I understand the NBA media. He's a highlight player. Forget the maturity for a second, which is I'm never too hard on guys about maturity. I'm much tougher on football players because they're 23. and 24 years old. You bring 22-year-old, you bring 18-19-year-old guys into the NBA. Okay, they're going to screw up. Like the first couple years, just build in a really bad decision. Now, with John, it was worse than that. But for me, it wasn't the maturity stuff because he's a kid. It was, okay, he's wildly, he's wildly entertaining. He's an incredible highlight player,

but he's not an effective shooter. And by the way, the last several years, it's gotten worse and he's hurt more. So he has aged very quickly. So I've never been a fan of hyper-athletic guards that aren't particularly good shooters. Now, Westbrook was so athletic that he could be a poor shooter. And, you know, he's bouncing around the league now, but he's just not a lot of Westbrook's historically. And Westbrook mostly is healthy. He's a sturdy, he's a running back. Jaws not. I mean, what's job? 180? You know, 178. So he's spindly. So I just, It's not that I wasn't a fan. He was a spectacular talent.

But I think everybody in the league thought Zion and Jahl were going to take it over. And it's going to be a, it's going to be Bankero and SGA and these players. I mean, it's just, it's just interesting how much maturity and hard work matters. You know, J. Dub, SGA, Hongren. I mean, it's just like really focused, driven, aspirational players. And I think it was just too much too soon for him. got banged up, and I think Memphis by the trade is telling you, we're going to start over. And it's the right move.

They can't compete. We knew it this year. It's the right move by Memphis. I actually like what Memphis did. It's just they won't be very good for a couple of years. Yeah, you know, we were talking about power earlier. And the one example of a guy who succeeded despite a lack of power is Steph. Yeah.

And Steph is both a. great shooter and someone who has been consistently available to his team. He's been healthy. Yeah. And in the tricky thing with like, Jaws going to be 26 years old at the start of next season. And he's just straight up not as good as he was three years ago. Like not as good. He's just not as not as good as at basketball. No. And like this is the age. 26, 27 is typically the age when players peak. Yeah. Like Tatum, best season of his career right at this age. This is the age when everyone seems to kind of figure it out. It's where it's kind of where like the meeting. point of the mental part of the game and the physical part of the game. And from this point forward, it's kind of like a tradeoff. You get a little smarter, a little more skilled, but you get a little less athletic.

This is the peak, right? And instead, like, his scoring volume has, like, in 2022, takes his team to within two wins of the conference finals. He's going head to head with Steph, talking shit to him, having such a great breakout playoff run. And ever since then, his scoring volume has dropped every season since that year. His efficiency has gone down. He just posted his two low.

games played totals of his career in the last two seasons. He's played fewer games in the last two years than he did three years ago combined. Like it's a, it's been a downward trajectory. And so if you're Memphis and you're looking at it, you just got four unprotected first round picks from Orlando. There still is some young, exciting talent on the roster, some guys like Gigi Jackson that are interesting, Zach Eadie, that's interesting. They have guys in-house that they can continue to develop and be fun, but they can bring in a massive trove of draft picks by trading Morant and Bain and just doing a full pivot. Not to mention Jaron Jackson, who I think carries a great deal of value somewhere around the league. And so I look at it as like a basically it's a turning

point for John Morant. You either got to commit to him or you've got to get off the ship. And the trade is a clear sign that they're going to get off the ship. Not to mention like they might look to trade KCP. I wouldn't be surprised if KCP gets moved to a contender at some point in the next season. And I think it's just Memphis looking at their situation and going like, we're sick of being in this business. It's so, jaw is such a cautionary tale. When you look at big stars that explode and then fall off and don't eventually rise to the level, it's always kind of a maturity thing. It's almost always that. Like you just couldn't handle a spot.

Like Zion couldn't handle his weight. Wasn't a terribly focused player. Zion, I thought, was a tremendously just massive torque. There's just nothing like him. I thought Jal was spectacular. But I think it's one of the reasons I like NIL is kids are going to stay in college and they're going to be surrounded by non-basketball players and they're going to be coached hard and they'll go to class.

And it's like it's a big broad life beyond just basketball and a G-League. So I think, and I've talked about this multiple times, I think NIL is really going to help the NBA and college basketball. and you're going to get more guys the Auburn player who J. Mack loves. Auburn's got a guard that's explosive. He's coming back to Auburn. He could play in the NBA. It'll make him a better NBA player and a great college player.

And some of these European guys now are coming over to college basketball. So I think the coaching in college basketball has always been excellent. Sometimes almost too dogmatic, right? Like it's just so coach-oriented. But I look at JAA, and I think the story of Jha is a little. little too much too soon and just wasn't quite ready for the stage. I mean, there was a moment in time where you thought, for about a year, maybe two, you're like, oh, he's going to be the face of the league. I mean, that was about three years ago. And then it all just unraveled. And I don't think

we need a face of the league. I thought he, for a while, looked like it. He just wasn't ready for it. It's a lot to ask, and he wasn't ready for it. Yeah, you know, what happens in this league, its success is so short-lived because people are coming for you. You know, like Janus looks like he climbs the mountaintop in 2021. Looks like he's going to launch this new. Nope, here comes Yokic. He's the problem.

It's like Jha looks like he's about to climb the mountain top in 2022. Shea and Ant have both lacked him since they've kind of reached their collective ceilings. And like, I think, you know, I do believe in John Morant. I do. He has a supreme athletic trait in the ability to get downhill. He actually is an underrated shot maker close to the rim in terms of like his floater and like little short stuff. I do think there's somebody that should probably consider taking a bet on him or a chance on him. As I look around, you know, we're going to talk about KD here in a second. And KD is, we're going to talk about it in more detail in a second, but the athletic is reported that KD is preferring the spurs, which we'll get to in a minute.

But like Houston, if Houston can't get KD, like would they consider a guy like John Morant? Is there a team out there that has the, that's in a tough position that can afford to take that kind of risk? Maybe a Sacramento, a team that's been kind of stuck in mediocrity. Like, is there a team out there that is willing to take a risk on a guy like him? Because I do think the upside is their calling. Like, I've seen a lot of stuff over the last couple days ranking him at various points in the league. And I do think when he's healthy, he's still like a right around the 14th or 15th best player in the NBA because no one can keep him in front. He is an extremely talented player.

That's the frustrating part is that it hasn't come together. But I do think that there's somebody out there that's going to take a chance on him. But ultimately whether or not it works out is going to be whether or not Jha actually makes the changes that he needs to. Like you got to improve. Like you have to develop as a jump shooter to take it easier on your legs. If he develops, as a jump shooter. It will make his downhill drives more dynamic and less frequent, which will help him stay healthier and available to his team. There is a real upside

there. He just hasn't been able to capitalize on it. But Colin, what are your thoughts on the report that Kevin Durant prefers the spurs? I was not a huge fan of this fit. We were talking last week about how Wembe being very thin, KD being very

thin. Even Deere and Foxes, he's a super fast card, but he's not a power player. Not a lot of power on that roster. Colin, what are your thoughts on KD potentially going to the Spurs? Well, I mean, to me, Wembe Nyama and Stefan Castle are the team. Like, there's nothing against Deerran and Vassel. But I think those two guys are all-stars, one of them all NBA. So, and I think they're just getting better fast.

I think I'm always cautious to say Kevin Durant doesn't fit anywhere. I think he fits everywhere. That's like my wife, OSA, always says, like salt works with everything. Like my son was a chef, my stepson. It's like, yeah, bacon, grease and butter work with everything. That's Kevin Durant. Like, you can just find a spot for a guy who's the best jump shooter at any given juncture in the league. So, and I also think Kevin, it just kind of figures it out.

I don't always like his decision-making on teams. But even in Brooklyn, he was the one thing I liked about it. He was the one thing. I mean, in Arizona, in Phoenix, it was Bradley Beal that drove us nuts. Kevin Durant was giving me 26 and 27. I'm not disappointed with him. I've been disappointed with, you know, his like team selection. But I just kind of feel like he's water.

Like he just kind of floats and finds his level, and I think he'll fit anywhere. And I also think you've got really smart between Chris Paul and Deerrin Fox. You have good guiders on that team, like really smart guys. And you can be a really flawed team if you're intelligent. We've talked about the Miami Heat, like one of the smartest teams in league history. It's like Alan, LeBron, Wade, Bosch, Badi, A, Badi, and. Haslam. It's like, geez, high functioning. They didn't have a center. Chalmers drove everybody crazy. Wade and LeBron kind of had duplicate games, and you're like, yeah, they got to four straight finals.

Like, they just figured shit out, right? And I kind of feel like if you put Wemby and it's Fox and it's, you'd have to move off. I think Harrison Barnes, we talked about before. I think it was the, but I mean, I just think KD would work. I think it would just work. I think it, I think Houston needs him more, but, I mean, I think he looks at Houston and thinks, all right, like San Goon, yeah, a man, Thompson, is he a great offensive player yet? He's more of an athlete defensive player. I don't know. I think Katie Smart and looks at it and just thinks, man, I could have bad shooting nights

and we could score 128 in San Antonio. Like, I think that's how he looks at it. Maybe I'm wrong. You know, I want to be clear. Just because I say it's not my favorite fit doesn't mean it can't work. Like, I'm a big believer. Don't overthink things. Like, don't overthink Kevin Durant next to Victor Wembeyanama and Darren Fox.

Like, they're going to score a lot of points and they're going to be able to get a certain number of stops. There's, I, there is, we were just talking about with Desmond Bain. There's a reason why Desmond Bain's shooting is so incredibly valuable in the Orlando context on a team that not only doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots, but doesn't have a guy who can make jump shots off the move. So it's uniquely super valuable to that team. KD anchored by the physicality of Houston, I like the kind of like force multiplier effect he could have there. That said, even in the context of San Antonio, he's obviously a massive upgrade. He's obviously going to make them way better. There's

even like some interesting stuff you could look at in the big picture. KD is like probably the best shooting workout guy in the league to pair to pair victor wembanyama with he's legendary for the quality of his shooting workouts him going game speed him working on shots that are specifically available in mba games off of certain actions katy is like a legend in his workouts off the floor wemby's going to be doing all those workouts with him you know he is and it would lead to a certain development in terms of wemby's big picture help but it looks to me more like less of a immediate contender juggernaut and more of like kind of a fun place for Katie to end his career.

That's right. You can go hand in hand and wendy. That's what I think. I think Katie looks at it and thinks this would be fun, is that it wouldn't be, I wouldn't have to drop 28. Points would come easy. And I think Katie looks at it and thinks, okay, Deerne Fox, you know, Wemby, the structure of the organization, they draft smart players.

They don't draft a lot of ego. they don't draft a lot of dummies. I think Katie looks at himself and thinks, okay, Houston's got this. There's a lot of stuff in Houston that I'm not sure it's ever going to be great in the playoffs. It's a lot of hyper-athleticism and length and running. And that's fun. But I think, I don't think at this point he wants to be a mentor. Right?

Like I think he wants to go, I think I'll have some fun and play with really smart players, highly functional players, and all put the pressure on me to figure out where I fit. You know, like, they don't need him. I think Houston needs him. I think the Knicks could really use him. So I think, you know, I think for KD, it is, I think it's perfect. That would be fun. It would be fun for him. And I think it would be fun for us. It falls in line with the same ideology that led him to Golden State. You know, like, to your point, KD could win a title in Houston, but it would be a chore. And offense would come. very difficult. He'd be facing

crazy looks. Now, the flip side of that is he wouldn't have to be the same statistical monster in Houston that he would be in other situations because Houston's defense is so good that he would just need to basically lift them over the top on the offensive end of the floor. But

there is something to be said about basketball is more fun when the ball is moving around and you're playing with more offensive skill and when you like KD, if there's one weakness at this point in his career, he doesn't pressure the rim a ton. Well, Deer and Fox sure has held So like he's going to get to play off of those advantages and play off the ball. Like there is a, Katie has told us to our faces exactly who he is for years.

He loves basketball and he wants to play a fun brand of basketball. That's right. And so even if we look at it on paper and go, oh, Houston, big strong physical team, they can anchor him with defense. Eme, Udoca is not the best offensive coach in the world. That team doesn't have a lot of offensive talent. it would be a lot like Oklahoma City in 2016. And I'm thinking he looks at that and goes,

I'd rather play fun free-flowing basketball with some more talented offensive players. And so with that being the case, I mean, San Antonio is going to be a really interesting team if they pulled something like this off. All of a sudden, a guy like Jeremy Sohan becomes super important because he'd have to be such a defensive anchor for them in terms of size and strength.

Stefan Castle, obviously defensively as a guard would have to do a lot of that work. Again, I'm not sure that I would view that Spurs team as exceptionally dangerous. But what a fun way for Wemby to start his career and what a fun way for Katie to end his career. Well, I think also Katie looks at LeBron and thinks LeBron's always figured it out is LeBron

doesn't want to do a lot of the dirty work. Like if he went to Houston, Katie'd have to do some of the dirty work. He'd be like, he'd be like Steph in Golden State where it's like, oh, Steph plays poorly. That's the narrative when they lose. It's not Jimmy Butler and Steph. in Houston very quickly, he would be, because Jalen Green's a hot and cold shooter, and very quickly, if Houston loses, it's like, well, Katie, you know, he had an off shooting night.

We traded for him. He was supposed to save us from this. That's right. And it's just not the case in San Antonio. He'll be part. And I do think as players get older, they're looking for fit. And, you know, it's, it's, and I'm okay with that. I think as I've aged, I've always liked fit. It's just fun to be part. of a group, a mix of young and old, but you don't want to be a mentor. Like, I just don't think Katie at this point. I think fun is a really interesting word because Kyrie is fun to play with. That's why he went there. And Golden State no longer because of relationships, he wasn't, he wasn't having a good time he was winning. And so, yeah, I'm okay with it. He's had an, he's had an all-time career. He's a different cat, but I've, you know, I've come to terms with

everybody's the same. I really do think, though, what you're seeing right now in the NBA, I really like. And I know we don't have a super team, but it's becoming like the NFL. It's a very GM-driven league. Like the smart GMs are going to win. A lot of them are in the West. And they have been for 30 years. That's why the West is overwhelmingly top to bottom, always deeper than the East. You just have more good owners and more good GMs. And the other thing is, I think we've really seen this. There's a lot of maturity in the league right now. Like Indiana and Oklahoma City, I mean, these are grinding outfits. I mean, I think Indiana plays pretty good defense. I mean, again, juxtaposition with OKC, juxtapose to that, well, it doesn't look the same. But there was,

in the second quarter in this game, I was like, God, Indy has given them problems. So I just, I think the league right now, it went through a cycle where it felt kind of you had old stars and two young guys. Like, you know, and you had these jaws and these Zions. It's like they're just not ready. I just feel like we've got this group of Halliburton and SGA and Jalen Williams. And it's just like really good Tatum, really good young players, totally dedicated to the league. And fewer and fewer old guys are relevant.

And I think it's, I don't, it may not get ratings, but I, I'm, I really like okay. Casey and Indiana. Like, I really respect top to bottom both organizations. The Volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey, Jonas on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Remember me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation.

I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit season two is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city, in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people.

Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.