The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Prime Cuts - Do Broncos Have The NFL’s BEST Defense? 49ers In Trouble? Trade Giannis? Browns Building DOMED Stadium

Episode Date: July 5, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week! First, Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL! They start by debating whether Cowboys star pass rusher Micah Parsons should be paid top dollar (3:00) and who will win the NFC North (7:30). They discuss the 49ers recent lack of draft success and whether Kyle Shanahan has had too much say in personnel decisions (12:15) and shout out Sean Payton for the incredible turnaround made by the Denver Broncos and argue that the Broncos could be poised to win the AFC West on the strength of their defense (18:45). Then, Colin’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “Breakfast Ball” on FS1! They discuss the massive gap between the western and eastern conferences in the NBA and the reasons driving the disparity, (32:00) and debate whether the top player in the east (Giannis) can power the Bucks to a finals appearance with Jayson Tatum out (38:00). They also talk about why the teams that have traded star players for assets almost always lose the trade and caution the Bucks about trading Giannis. They pivot to the NFL and the backlash to the Browns plan to build a domed stadium and debate whether the tradition of snow & bad weather games is worth keeping in a quarterback driven era of football (45:00).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I was saying this the other day, I think what the Kansas City Chief started doing, and I think the Rams have followed suit, is there's kind of a trend that the Steelers are not doing this, which is, listen, we're going to draft our defense. We're going to stay young, cheap, and twitchy. Defensive players get hurt more than offensive players. So you want a younger defense. We will pay for Chris Jones. The Rams, I think, will eventually pay for Jaredverse.

You want to have most of your money on the offensive side. Left tackle, quarterback, weapon. And that feels like what Kansas City started to do with Mahalms. Like, we're going to pay for some stuff to help him, offensive line, but we're going to keep our defense super, super young. You know, because offense is more choreographed. It's more of an offensive league. You want to make fewer mistakes.

Now, the Rams defense was the least penalized last year for its age, which just doesn't even make sense. But anyway, this week I talked about Michael Parsons, and I said, I couldn't pay him top of the market. I like him. But I don't think he has the strength of Jared Verse, the consistency of Miles Garrett. He doesn't play inside like Chris Jones. I don't think he's as kind of intimidating or as consistent as Max Crosby. I don't think he's as good as Trey Henderson. That's my interpretation.

How do you, I think he's a splash player and a really good one. How do you view Michael Pars? Yeah, I think he's better than probably the way you just described him, but I'm with you, like the upper upper echelon of, you know, of Miles Garrett or whoever they are at their position, Justin Jefferson or Trent Williams, you know, given what you have to pay for a pass rusher, you know, Bosa a couple years ago got $125 million guaranteed, give or take, so what's Parsons, $150 million. I mean, are we talking quarterback contract? But Jerry's already down this road. I mean, the chance to trade him or move on would have been before the draft. And we also know

the way that Jerry does business is like anyone thinking that Mike is going to get paid during the Fourth of July holiday hasn't been falling the Cowboys. This is going to happen mid to late August right before the season. And it's going to be absolutely top of the market. And I've always theorized, I don't know if Jerry has this incredible investment. He never likes pulling out the cash until the last second, but he does, I mean, he's done it very consistently now with D.D. Lamb, he waits until the last second on his premium players. They would have been way better off clearly. Like, we have enough evidence now. The market's only going up and up and up. So they should have paid them after last year. It would have been way cheaper, but they're down this road.

I'm with you. If he's the cornerstone, like you're Ray Lewis, you're Reggie White, you're Chris Jones. Because the one thing, Chris Jones, at this point in time, in his career, takes some plays off. but in a big game, he can be the best player on the field. And Michael Parsons can, but against the run, is he an elite player? I would say no. He's a special pass rusher, but when does a pass rusher come into play? When you're up, 10 points. You know, is this cowboy team going to be leading a lot of people?

I don't know. So I think, yeah, I mean, I like him. I mean, he's definitely a high-end player, but he also plays a high-end position that costs a premium, and any time that a guy like him gets paid, it's an astronomical amount of money now. It's essentially like what they paid Tua a couple years ago at quarterback. I mean, I would imagine his number comes in 175.

They come in at 120, and then they'll meet somewhere 140, 150. So now the Cowboys, to me, it's the way they built their team. They're all in on two players, Micah Parsons and C.D. Lam. C.D. is an excellent player. Micah's damn good. and a quarterback who's, you know, on his good days, like eight, and on his bad days, like 16th. And that's, and the coach staff has a lot of question marks. So I don't know.

I go back and forth. I know everyone in your down on the Cowboys, rightfully so. Usually that's the time, like when a team actually is better than you think, but you look at their division, they're the third best team in their division. Schedule is pretty difficult. I mean, Dak, I think we got to ask major question marks about what he's going to look like now off another major, major injury. you know, is he completely immobile? Yeah, I mean, they've invested a lot in the offensive line. So they're going to pay them. And then it's just going to be, he's got to be, you know, a 15 to 18-sac guy to make you feel good about it moving forward. So I was a little surprised you like the Packers doing the NFC North. And I'll kind of throw out my belief system, which is, I think to win a Super Bowl, you have to have seven elite players generally close to their prime or just out of it.

And, you know, there are obviously exceptions. But if you go look at the Patriots dynasty, it was like Edelman, Gronk, you know, Tom Brady. They'd have Logan Mankens. There'd be a pass rush or somewhere, a one great corner. And they always had like six or seven guys who were really step up big player guys. Now, they, I mean, the Ravens teams with Ray Lewis obviously had that. The Chiefs have mostly had that where they have Chris Jones, one elite corner. They almost always have a good six.

safety. Now they've got linebackers, Travis Kelsey, Patrick Mahomes, again, Joe Tuny for a couple Super Bowls. But it's like at least like five to six really high-end players. So I look at Detroit. And I think Detroit, Jemir Gibbs, Amar on St. Brown, Hutchison, Penae Sewell. They did lose their center, which I think is a real thing. That hurts. He was an elite center. But I see about five guys with them who I think they have a young safety we like, right? Who's that? Detroit. Yeah, Brian Branch, the Alabama kid.

Brian Branch. Yeah, yeah, Brian Branch. I like Green Bay's running back, Josh Jacobs. Jire Alexander, I liked two years ago. The receiving core, I thought, was incredibly promising at the beginning of last year. but now they drafted a receiver in the first round signaling they don't trust it. Here's my knock on Green Bay. Do they have six elite players?

Because that's kind of what wins the Super Bowl. Philadelphia certainly just did. Yeah, I mean, I think they're very beholden on and predicated on the quarterback playing really well. And two years ago down the stretch, he was a top six, seven guy in the league the way he played. Last year, obviously, it was really bumpy. So to me, if he's a Pro Bowl guy, he definitely has the physical characteristics. I think the question mark on him coming into the season is very fair. I'm with you on Jacobs.

I think Kenny Clark is a excellent player. Xavier McKinney, who they signed from the Giants, was excellent last year. I think they're receiving unit. I'm with you. I mean, there were high hopes for a couple of those guys, concussions, injuries. Watson couldn't catch. Now he's got a torn ACL. I think the tight end Tucker pretty good.

So I- So I-grave is the other tight-in. I mean, they got two good tight ends. To me, they are, I'm with you,

like do they have the Justin Jefferson's and the Micah Parsons and the Fred Warner's? I think you could push back on that and that's more than fair. Coaching staff's pretty damn good. Like their talent is good, right? They won 11 games last year and one and five. So they are a good team. This is a team sport.

It's my pushback always on the NBA. There's more talent than ever. Well, it's not an individual sport. It's a team game. So it's like, are the teams that good? And so I think the Packers are probably better as a group than they are individually.

Because I'm with you. If you just did like a draft from scratch in the NFC North, their players might not go as high as some of the other players, but you go, they've been running circles around the Bears for years. And last year you would have gotten into the year, bears have all these great players. So it is a team sport. Their head coach is not just the head coach who's proven to be good. He's the play caller, which is powerful. And I think Jeff Hathley proved to be a pretty damn.

good hire. I mean, their defense was vastly improved. So I more like the reason when we did the segment last week about picking them to win the division is they won 11 games where the quarterback was banged up and they won one division game. And honestly, they kind of got lucky to win that against the Bears if you remember. They could have got 0 and 6. So it's like, that's not going to happen. I would say on average, they're going to split, let's say 3 and 3. And then their culture, I just think that I like their coaching staff. And I'm betting a lot of little on the come on the quarterback, which I could go the other way. But I think they have a long history. Even if they goes Montana Young to Jeff Garcia, if this guy's Jeff Garcia,

Jeff Garcia was banging out Pro Bowls. Now, he's got a wild approved. He's even Jeff Garcia, right? He's going to need a big season to stay healthy. But he got injured in that first game in Brazil. And I just felt like that kind of derailed their whole deal. Yeah. And I think when you're a young quarterback and you get hurt and you get out of a rhythm. Yeah. I don't think, it's like a veteran quarterback who comes back. I felt like Jordan Love never got into a rhythm last year. He was gone. Then he was back. Then he was inconsistent. Then he had a couple great games stretched. Then he struggled. We don't know if he was 100% healthy. So I do think he's super talented. So there was an article this week. I think it was maybe Thursday. It was after you'd done Monday,

Tuesday, Wednesday shows. Sports Illustrated.com said, you know, now that you've paid Brock pretty a ton, you're coming off a losing season. Let's say Christian McCaffrey gets hurt or Trent Williams and they're they're seven and ten they just I mean let's face it McCaffrey is a he's the bell cow he he touches it they're really good um I think Kyle's excellent and I I you can get away with firing a great coach I mean Philadelphia is a factory and they let go of Andy Reed but um I do see something with San Francisco and I worry about and I saw this the last six or seven years or maybe more with New England, and I talked about it a lot on the air,

is that Belichick had too much say in the draft, and they started drafting very poorly. I thought Pete Carroll had a stretch with John Snyder before the last year, I think it was, maybe the last two, where he had too much power. Pete did when Paul Allen died. There was a void. There was a hole in the organization. Snyder almost left. You remember to Detroit, he wanted the power back. And then when he got it back, the drafts were great again. And I thought they had the best draft this year in the NFL. So Schneider. And so you see this.

You've talked about this. The coach makes the money. And if the coach starts winning Super Bowls or getting to him, he's going to have a say. I think Sean Payton, this draft, had real say I could tell. Either John Lynch misses a lot or Shanahan has a little more impact than I'd be comfortable with. I didn't love Pearsall as a pick. I think they've drafted too many receivers. I, the offensive line drafts, picks have been weird.

Jake Moody is a kicker third round. I didn't love. There's a lot of real misses. Is that Shanahan usurping Lynch? He is the most respected kind of revered guy in the building. What do you make of the Niners bad drafts? Well, I think I told you this around the draft time because I had a personnel guy tell me, because he was listening to podcast.

He's like, the way we describe it is coaches view drafts like a depth chart. Hey, I'm missing a guard. We need to draft a guard high. I don't have a starting guard. Where front office personnel view it through the lens of over the course of the next three or four years. How do we build this team and see big picture? And I think this draft, you know, for the most part, was pretty clear. Kyle, they had some emptiness in their depth chart, right?

Because they let half their team go during free agency and with the cut. So when you make $15 to $20 million, and John Lynch, I think, is one of the highest paid, if not the highest paid GM, but relative to coaches, he's not making as much. And Kyle had in his contract the moment he got hired, he has the final say. Same with Pete. I do think Pete and John over time work together, no different with Kyle and John because they have a high level of respect. But at the end of the day, the coach, you know, when he's in these predicaments like the Niners were in this season because they had to kind of revamp the roster financially, they had a lot of holes. And the first thing you try to do with holes is plug them if you're the coach. So I think this draft, there's going to be a lot of pressure on these last two drafts.

And I'm more bullish on the 49ers than everyone else. To me, Kyle Shanahan is going nowhere for the foreseeable future because the ownership just signed Brock Purdy, and Brock Purdy's tied to Kyle. So they're getting a couple of year run. And obviously, if Kyle was let go at the end of this year or the end of next year, regardless of these next couple years, he would be hired immediately. He'd be the number one candidate if he wanted to keep working and would be hired. but people would think about firing their coach, right?

So he's not worried about, like, he's in one of these spots where on like a dayball or McDaniel or some of these guys that might get fired. They're not guaranteed to get another job immediately. Kyle's guaranteed, right, to get immediate another job. But I do think, you know, this season is big because the expectations are lower, but everyone's like, look at the schedule. And I don't know, Edelman, you know, the way they talk about in Belichick, you never, And I understand it's the NFL, but like their schedule is a lot different than playing the Ravens, the Bills, and the Eagles.

I mean, they're playing a lot of the Titans and the Saints. They have no excuse to not win. I think at minimum nine games. And part of it is when you pay a quarterback, you know, it's the Bucky Brooks tractors and the trailers. Regardless where Purdy is, if you're willing to pay them, you should be very competitive with him as your starting quarterback. I'm hard on Tua, but there is no disputing. When Tua plays 16, 17 games, the Dolphins are just going to be a competitive. team. Right. So now, even as they've changed the construct of the roster, I think at minimum,

anything other than nine wins, if you're the 49ers, based on this schedule, based on, you know, investing in the quarterback would be viewed as a disaster. And I expect, because again, it's a coaching league. And I do think Kyle's pretty awesome. And if he wasn't, McVeigh a couple years ago was really humbled by the experience and came back. And obviously what they've done the last couple of years speaks for itself. You know, Coach Reed when he was fired, had a big chip on his shoulder, came back. That had to be a pretty humbling year for Kyle at 6 and 11 with all the money they were spending the way they lost those games. Now you bring in Robert Solie, your guy. I think they're going to come with a fury. I think they got a lot to prove. And I'm higher on Purdy than

you are mainly just because of the offense. But I'm with you. If McAfrey gets injured, their record with and without him speaks for itself, though they have been very, very, very, open about like he's good he's in great shape you know i know people have been going to practice that he looks good last year was weird you know the achilles weren't working and then he tears his knee when he finally comes back so if he gives them i don't know 90% of the season i think they'd be in pretty he's a he's a unique player right oh i think he is i think take out walter peyton and maybe barry sanders i think he's as good to running back as i've ever seen in my life now adrian peterson was more forceful and faster maybe but he couldn't catch he had a fumbleish

issue. I think McCaffrey, Walter Payton was stronger than Barry Sanders. Barry was Shifty. Walter was shifty and incredibly pound for pound. I mean, Walter Payton is one of those. Could have been the strongest guy in league history pound for pound. He was incredible. You couldn't tackle him one-on-one. Linebackers couldn't. So, but I think McCaffrey is in that class. I think he's just, he's a remarkable player. You know, I was, as we go through all this stuff, something popped in my head the other day. PFF had Sean Payton as the second best coach in the league. And I actually, and I'm not saying this because I get along with Sean, and we really hit it off. But I'm also saying this. I don't think he's quite getting enough credit for what he's done in Denver.

And some of that is Harbaugh soaks up so much of the glare because he's such a character. And then there's the reigning dynasty in the division. And now you got Pete Carolyn Chip Kelly. So Denver sort of gets lost from a publicity standpoint. But John, think about this. So he goes into an organization and the culture's broken, the quarterback's a mess, and there's impending new ownership. So he goes in the first year. I think they, one game, they win three more games. He makes Russ functional. He cleans up the offensive line from like 21st to like seventh. It just got ranked second, by the way, PFF's grade starting the season. It's now second.

Last year, with Herbert Mahomes, Harbaugh, Reed, he has a rookie quarterback. They end up leading the league in sacks. It is now a bona fide top offensive line with really one Cortland Sutton, one dependable weapon. And I just, I looked at them last year and I thought, I thought they'd be good with Bonix. I don't think we understand it. You start looking at that division in almost every other division with the number two O'line, Sean Payton, a very capable young quarterback, leader in Sacks, they get Greenlaw and Hufunga. I'm like, are we, I think what he's done there, last year they make the playoffs with $89 million,

I think it wasn't dead cap money. Are we undervaluing? Because of the glare with everybody else what he's done in Denver. I've watched a couple of his press conferences during OTAs. He thinks his team's pretty good. he thinks his team's pretty good because defensively they got a chance to dominate. And if you have a dominant defense with an offensive coach who's proven like your floor is so high. I mean, your floor is immediately like 10 wins.

And someone sent me this DM recently. They said, you know, everyone talks about Jaden. And I understand why. But pull up the stats for Bo Nicks and J. I think we talk about Bo Nicks like he threw 18 touchdowns. He threw 29 touchdowns. Now some of these are scheme touchdowns. But his numbers, you know, the accuracy is something that I think he has to work on.

Now, the weapons, they have the running back in the draft. But I do think that, you know, is he a guy under Sean Payton? If he just becomes like Sean Payton's version, even if he's not, Drew Breeze or whatever, but just like a Jared Gough, a Brock Purdy, like a consistent starter for a while, they're going to be really good for a while. And I know last week you had the Chargers to, they could be to win the division. It's not inconceivable, right? Because he's a unique second-year player. How old is he?

25 years old? Like, he's played a lot of football. And he, I think unless you watch him, he didn't move a lot at Oregon. Sean lets him move. And he can, I mean, he's an athlete. That dude is ripped. When I went to the Oregon, Utah game, I saw him play the Huskies, but I was up. So I bought really good seats for Oregon, Utah.

I wanted to be behind Oregon's bench. And he's on the sideline, and he is cut. And you just watch him in these NFL games. And I always kind of look at it when a quarterback runs, how's the outside linebacker? How's the outside linebacker stack up? He runs past him. I mean, when he gets ahead of steam going, he can move past guys. And I remember when Johnny Mansell broke into the league, he went for a couple runs

and the defensive end chased him down. And you're like, yeah, that's not going to work. That's just not going to work when that guy's chasing you down. But I, Sean is one of those no-nonsense guys. and he's a little gruff. I remember when he said something, and Aaron Rogers, you know,

when he said something about Nat Hackett. And again, I don't think the media always gives Sean quite a fair shake because he's pretty rough and pretty direct. But that Huffunga pickup, you know, he's been banged up. He's an elite safety.

Well, to me, I mean, two years ago he was all pro. In Green Law, I mean, a lot of question marks with his health. But if you, if,

One of those two guys is a full-time player, let alone both of them. The violence of their defense will be, it'll be one of the, if not the, if not the hardest hitting defense in the league. I mean, they already were right up there last year. And, you know, we talk a lot about this when it comes to quarterbacks, especially young quarterbacks, is the intangibles, the maturity, the focus, the drive. You know, Bo Nicks, and Jane gets a lot of credit for that, rightfully so. But Bo Nicks should be right there, too, in terms of, you know, the way they spoke about him at

Oregon, his maturity, also what he's been through. A lot like Jaden. And I would say unlike Jaden, it's easier to fail at Arizona State. No one really cares. Team hasn't been good. You struggle at Auburn when you're in his situation? Like that was a, that was like an NFL, the way they're covered, the amount of people that care. The spotlight that was on him.

Remember he was, I think his first start was against Justin Herbert. Remember that Oregon Auburn game a long, long time ago? I mean, he won it. He played a big throw in the corner. He played a big, throw as a freshman into the corner of the end zone to win it. And then his career just kind of unraveled as their program did. And then he went to Oregon.

You've seen him in two stable environments, Oregon and Denver, and he's thrived. So it's safe to say like, yeah, pretty impressive guy. I would bet on Bo Nix because Sean Payton clearly not going anywhere. I mean, they are a 12, 13 win season away from Sean Payton then getting a huge contract extension, right? He was given five years, 90 million. They have a good year and the trajectory of this franchise. And listen, I would have assumed when Sean got the job that General Patton, the GM would have been fired.

It feels like it's worked pretty seamlessly. They worked together. Maybe Sean's realized, like, got to pick my battles, like, let's just get along. And it feels like they got a pretty stable organist. That's the thing with Pete Carroll and the Raiders. Like Jim Harbaugh's kind of matured. Sean Payton's at a different stage in his life. Obviously, you know, Andy's the most human vich are on the same.

It's a really, really difficult division with these guys. like, that have really figured it out, that have cracked the code, of personality, what it takes, the energy that it takes, what they're looking, they know exactly what they're looking for. It's pretty scary. Yeah, no, I think, I think actually, Patton's a pretty good GM. I thought, I didn't think the problem was, I thought the problem was hack it. And listen, it happens. I mean, Bob Kraft is a good owner.

He hired Gerard Mayo, and he just wasn't ready for it. Like, it happens. It's hard to hire coaches. I mean, they took a huge swing on Sean McVeigh and Los Angeles. They wouldn't let him out of the building. That was a guy, but, you know, at one point, Lane Kiffin was in the NFL and was a pretty good coach. The dysfunction of the Raiders ended that. And they hired to hack it right to because they thought Rogers was going to come, which I would have done to at the time.

I mean, that was. Yeah. Listen, Josh McDaniels was a guest on my show and we kept in touch. He's a really, really sharp guy. It just hasn't worked his head coach. He's a tremendous coordinator. So whatever the magic is, I don't know exactly what it is. Some guys work, some don't.

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So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert, smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world. right now. And I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Most of the time, if there's a sort of a trend in sports, I love decoding it. It's one of my favorite things to do. Like, I've, you know, I've got my theories and beliefs. The NBA West is now so much better than the East. It has been for 30 years. And a lot of it's just because bad ownership in Charlotte and Chicago and Atlanta and Washington. It's like the all bad owner front office teams are all mostly out east.

The West Denver and Houston now are capable of winning the title. OKC just did. San Antonio is going to make a huge leap. Minnesota's really, really good. The Lakers have Austin. Reeves, LeBron, and Luca. Golden State has Butler Drain on and staff, and the Clippers are viable. You could argue all of those teams. I mean, the Warriors were a playing team last year. All of them could compete for the Eastern Conference finals. I'm not sure they could win it.

I don't think the Clippers could win it. But it is interesting. The only thing I can account for the dominance, it's like SEC times two. Like the SEC had a 20-year run, but now the Big Ten feels as good or better. The West is pulling away. Some of it's just Tatum and Halliburton's injuries. My guess is its ownership stinks out east. I mean, the Knicks firing Tibbs. I mean, any thoughts on the domination to Winter League and the weather's better out west? I mean, I don't even know.

I think that that's actually a piece of it, right? I think like some of it is people want to go to L.A. That's two of the teams. the Warriors became a juggernaut, world-class organization, Silicon Valley business. That's out what all these guys now have podcast companies and media companies and all of that. Your ownership point out east is luck of the draw. Some of it is lottery, too, right? Like the Spurs won the lottery in the Wendley-Lamma year, West.

Dallas wins the lottery in the Cooper flag year, West. You didn't mention Dallas. Dallas has Kyrie, Anthony Davis, and Koum. super flag. No, you're right. I forgot to put Dallas, and there's six teams I love. Right. Exactly.

So, like, so some of it is blind luck. Some of it is, some of it is weather. And, you know, Miami has been an attractive destination, and they're just a little down. Right, right now, right? Like, they easily could have gotten KD. And I would not have loved that Tyler Hero, Bam out of bio, Kevin Durant, Big Three, as like an NBA champion contender. But we certainly would have talked about them as.

being viable in the Eastern Conference. And this isn't what your main point was, but I'm going to bring it up anyway because I'm fascinated by it. I think that what Milwaukee did made sense. I know they're getting killed for it, but they were just the five seed in the East. You are as much of an NBA fan and historian as I am. Can you think of, because I have a period of time that I'm thinking of, where the gap between the best player in a conference and the.

second best player in a conference has been larger than what it will be next year between Janus and the second best player in the East without Jason Tatum. Because like second best player in the East next year, Kate Cunningham, Jaylon Carroll. Bancaro, sure, Jalen Brunson. Like, Janus is 30, 12, and 6 and still a top 15 to 20 defensive player in the league. and the only reason he's not top five defensively is because he's doing so much damn work on offense. They were just the five seed. They absolutely believe that they can win.

And they might be dead ass wrong. And they gave up everything for Dame and Drew and then Dame got hurt and not like Miles Turner's game. But Milwaukee is saying, Janus gave us everything, including a title, and he wants to be Kobe. He wants to be Tim Duncan. He wants to be here forever. So in the East, why can't he grind us to 50 wins and the four seed and his third MVP, which would be there's only nine guys in NBA history who won three or more MVP's.

And like that season, even if it doesn't end in a title, that's a season that Bucks fans would love. Like that, that's a worthwhile. exercise and professional sports entertainment. I think if the bucks with Janus and the dame injury and the salary cap situation and the lack of draft picks, if they were New Orleans, if they were in the West, they would trade Janus. But they look at it and they say, we've got the best player in the history of the franchise at the peak of his powers who wants to be here. He's not looking for Miami or L.A. or movie stardom or anything like that.

like, okay, fine. We'll stretch Dame and we're going to just try to grind out as many wins as possible. I think there's something admirable in it, even if it won't end in a championship. Yeah, so I have the opposite take, which is it is so hard. First of all, dynasties mostly come in certain NBA cities. Or when you have a transformational player, Andy has a great coach, like Duncan and Pop, Kerr, Katie, Curry, you know, magic and, Riley, you know,

LeBron, Wade, Spolstra. And so Milwaukee has never gotten the coach right. And it's also not an desirable area. And in my life, and we're seeing it now in the 70s, and now we're seeing it over the last seven years. It's just one, there's no great teams with the new CBA and Aprons.

There won't be. You just can't do it. I mean, even a team I like next year a lot, Orlando, they may never win a title. Just have a bunch of one-A player and a bunch of B-plus-A-minus guys. But in NBA history, that sometimes one is enough. Think about how good the Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, Dennis got teams were. No titles.

Think how good the Sacramento Kings were. They couldn't get through the Lakers. No titles. Is that Lua Linder got one, Yokic got one. My take is OKC won't win it next year. They're too inconsistent offensively. In Houston now and Denver, all these teams in the West, They're just going to chip away at everybody.

Is that if you win one, and you have Janice, and you win one, and you still have a wildly productive player, but you can't get the coach right, and you get old really fast, which happened in Milwaukee three years ago, Middleton, you know, lower body injuries. You're like, yeah, this is getting old fast. Is that when you watch the Rudy Gobert trade, I would have gone, oh, we can get six uncontested first round picks, an All-Star and two rotational players. But I do think smaller markets, the Orlando's and the Sacramentoes, they hold on to stuff because it's the big show in town. It's of mice and men, Lenny, squeezing.

They can't let go. And it's like, guys, you have been so old and such a bad matchup against younger athletic teams like Boston for three years. I mean, I think people are forgetting. They were favored over Indiana. Indiana destroyed them. The games were competitive. Yeah. I mean, listen, I think there is some truth to that,

but there's also, like, they've had bad injuries at bad times. Like, I was at game one, Buck's heat, and it was the one seed v. the eight seed, and they lose to Miami. Yonis falls on his back in the playoffs, gets hurt. Isn't the same guy the rest of the series? Dame

hurt in the playoffs. It doesn't play this whole series. Middleton has gotten hurt in the playoffs. I think they got won and then they haven't won playoff series since and were the national responses like, oh, well, so then they haven't been close since.

In Milwaukee, they're like, well, we've also had bad injury luck to go along with it. And you're definitely right. They want to hold on to it and it's the big game in town. But has Utah won the Rudy Gobert trade? Like the team that trades the superstar for the four or five or six assets, there's not a lot of examples of it working out. It worked out in Oklahoma City. They traded Paul George and they get

SGA and a draft pick that becomes Jalen Williams. But they also had Sam Presti doing the trading and the drafting. And there aren't many of those guys out there. Like, what's a trade for Janus, where you're going to turn around and be like, yep, the bucks are going to be back in the NBA finals in three years. Okay, this is the one. So, KD, Shen Goon, Amon, Thompson, don't win. They don't even get to the finals. And Katie's one year older. And then Houston says, Fratita says, okay, we're going for it.

Okay, we're going to go for it. Shengoon, an all-star for Janus. Jabari Smith, who's going to back up KD this year. Sure. And five unprotected first round picks and maybe a deep bench rotational players. Now it's KD, Amand Thompson, Janus, and other young guys. Oh, I get why Houston would want it. But if I'm Milwaukee, I get, I mean, Shengoon's going to be a 24-a-game guy for next to eight years.

He's really a beautiful player. Yeah. So is DeMazis. What is he won? Well, no, no. Okay, okay, it's fair. It's fair. But then I get Javar.

It's hard. It's hard. My point, my point is it's, I think you're always going to lose on that trade. And even if your point is, okay, well, 80 cents on the dollar is better than 50 cents on the dollar. There's something to, and you, I think we can be a little national, remove fandom, live in a bunch of different places. There's something to Janus loving Milwaukee and Milwaukee loving Janus. He was the 15th pick in the draft. He was a skinny kid from Greece. And when he came to Milwaukee, you can Google the stories. The NBA was buying the arena back from the bucks.

Yes, I remember. You need to get public financing for your stadium or we are going to move your team. And they got the financing. They opened the building. Ownership says this is a commitment to show that we can build around and win with Janus. They built a new practice facility, a beautiful new arena. And then he delivers a championship. And this is just a silly anecdote that I happen to know just from being in Chicago. But like, Janus, whenever he would come and play the Bulls, he would go to, you probably know the right. You know Avli, the Greek restaurant. Yeah, yes, yes.

Yeah, so the guy who owns it is Lou Canellas, the local sports anchor on the Fox affiliate in Chicago. He's a restaurant tour also. It's probably his main business by now. There's one in, there's like five locations, four or five locations in around Chicago. And there's one in Milwaukee that Janus, everyone was like, oh, Janus is going to leave Milwaukee and go to the Bulls because he wants to like have all the good Greek restaurants in Chicago. And he's like, no, I'm just going to. open a good Greek restaurant in Milwaukee. Like he brought the Greek food to Milwaukee.

Like the guy, it's a throwback, man. Like, we, like, Steph Curry is the Warriors. It would be weird if he played somewhere else. Tim Duncan was the Spurs. Kobe was the Lakers. Like, there's, I am just rooting for the purity of the 15th pick of the draft who delivers the title to the small market. And he's like, I'm happy.

I'm happy. I'm not messing with happy. I don't think it could, I don't think, I think you're, you like moving, you like L.A. You're like,

you're like, I like London and L.A. and Europe and backpacking and biking. And like, you like moving around. And I get it. But this guy, I think he just likes Milwaukee.

I think we project on to Yannis, would we, we want Yonis to play for a championship. That's right. And he, and I'm like, why can't I play for a championship here? And he's probably wrong.

So this is something that I've never understood. I don't understand the advantage of it. Back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. When the NFL, you literally could be average at quarterback and winner division regularly. You ran the ball, you played defense, the NFL allowed all sorts of clutching and grabbing and hitting late.

I mean, there's videos of Joe Montana being slammed to the turf, which would get you thrown out for like six games now. So I never understood snow games, but I do think there was an era in which if you were built right, run game, weren't great at quarterback, defense, snow games were a little bit of an advantage. The Cleveland Browns come out over the last week and they're like, we're coming out with a new stadium. And people are like, oh, my God, there goes the home field advantage. I'm like, you have a horrible home record over the last three decades first. But my takeaway is it's a quarterback league. Snow, Brady is an exception that I would watch him and Manning play in Snow, and I'm like, oh, Tom's winning the game.

I can tell him pregame. They take that shot on CBS and Manning would be freezing in Fox probably. Tom's winning. It's over. is that the snow game today, there's not many of them it feels like, but I think it's always been completely overrated. There's a reason we play ball games in better weather. I don't want my football screwed with by ice storms and sleet,

and I think it remains the most overrated thing in American sports, the snow football game. I want my games to be played like they are supposed to be played. So I'm glad the Super Bowl is in a dome. Right. I do. But I like December regular season games in snow. Like I think there is something to like lamp.

Like there's like some stadiums that should just be grandfathered in. Like Fenway is like a little bit of a pain in the ass. But you'd be bummed if they changed Fenway. Wrigley. They've renovated Wrigley and they've made it better with video boards and accessibility and all of that. But like, that is still a brick wall out there covered by Ivy. It's not the most practical thing in the world, right? Like if Pete Crow Armstrong, who's going to be the starting center fielder for the National League,

ran into the brick wall and broke his shoulder, we would do the topic of like, should there be a brick wall in center field? Yes. That's pretty dangerous. That's pretty archaic. But there's a charm to it. It doesn't have to make sense. Lambo, like if the – so you'd say,

that the Packers should put a roof on Lambo Field? No, I think, um, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I think Green Bay is what Green Bay is. I think it's, I think it's history is the frozen tundra and Vince Lombardi. Right. Right. Because it doesn't make any sense for an NFL team to be in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Right?

If we were starting, if we were starting the league tomorrow from scratch and you picked 32 cities, we wouldn't pick Green Bay. But we all agree the NFL is better with Green Bay existing. What is laughable about the Bears is Green Bay is always drafted quarterbacks, Favre, Aaron, and Love with above average arms, and the Buffalo Bills with Jim Kelly and Josh Allen, understand the value of a whip in northern climates. That's why it was always indefensible when Mitch Tribusky,

whose ball died 24 yards down the field was drafted by the bears. It's like, is there a dome stadium that was just agreed to that I'm not aware? Like, there's some teams that don't even understand. The weather advantage is this. Dome team draft Tua. Warm weather, Tua. If you draft them in cold, you're idiotic and should be fired as a general manager. Hey, guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumored me with Robert

Smigel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the top. toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jench can win. She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lerabana Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last?

Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the Aihart Reefat. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.