The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Prime Cuts - SGA Is A “Midrange Maven”, KD Trade, NBA Draft, College Football

Episode Date: June 28, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week! First, Colin is joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight”! They break down SGA’s game and explain why he is one of the best midrange scorers the league has ever seen (3:30), and react to Kevin Durant being traded to the Houston Rockets, explain why Houston won the trade, and make their predictions for how each team will benefit (11:00). Then, Colin is joined by Ryen Russillo, host of the Ryen Russillo podcast at The Ringer! They review the NBA Draft and discuss why the talent entering the draft the past two years has been far more NBA ready after a twenty year drought (30:00).They point to NIL, conference realignment  and the transfer portal being a boon for the quality of college sports (47:00).  Finally, they discuss former college coaches like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer transitioning into broadcasting and why they’re so good on TV (57:00).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

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At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs, only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the tie. the ultimate, the all-electric BMW I-X. What I love about the I-X is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. I've had several, while its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out, not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the I-X is completely changing the game with an all-electric

SUV. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game, so why would you settle for anything less from your SUV? After all, there's only one ultimate, the BMW I-X. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine, electrified, BMW. And you know, I was thinking about this as you were talking about SGA. Usually, let's say, for instance, Shaq wasn't hitting his free throws. He still had all-time power.

If Kobe and MJ weren't hitting their jumper, they could go vertical. Magic Johnson struggling from the field. he just had a size advantage, he'd back you down. SGA is not a vertical player. So if he's off and he's off center, he doesn't have power. He doesn't have speed. He doesn't have, he's not a, he's not, you know, he's strong for his size. He's not a vertical player.

He is a mid-range maven. Like he is all-time stuff. And so, you know, I've said before is he's an all-time score, but he doesn't feel like he's in the Curry class where you're like, wow, I've never seen a human, like Caitlin Clark's got some of that. You're like, I've never seen that, right? SGA, I've seen it. Alex English, Kiki Van Dewey.

He's just better at it. And so I do think, you know, when you play better teams and you can get him off his game, he has a very centralized game. He's tremendous at it, but I think we'd both admit he needs a friendly whistle. and because he's so gifted, he almost always gets it. It's not like the hardened whistle, which is like, that feels illegal. That's not it. It's like, that feels unstoppable as different than it falls illegal.

But, you know, he is, I love him. I love his maturity. He's just a smart, hardworking kid. He's impossible not to root for. I know everybody doesn't like, you know, all the flopping. But I have a hard time not rooting for guys who are, more mature than their age with completely refined games where I can see the work ethic. I can see the years you've toiled in a gym.

That to me as a grinder, like I love that kind of basketball. And I think that's what he embodies. Yeah, I think it's fascinating because at his age, you know, being 26, he's kind of in this weird role that's reminiscent of some of the roles that you've seen guys like Tom Brady and LeBron Bion where they're the, they're the. older statesman in the locker room. He's the elder statesman in the locker at 26 years old. It's such a bizarre dynamic. But to, like, if he was an immature player at 26, this whole thing could fall apart because of the youth in that locker room. And he just brings that, that veteran presence. This is a perfect time for us to get into the Microsoft bit. And I'm going to kick it back to you. So welcome to course correction. Brought to you guys by Microsoft. Just like star players and

teams navigating performance hurdles and business decision makers today are under immense pressure to get things right. They must rise to the occasion turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible AI. And when you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles to face. In this segment, we will highlight the player every week that has risen to the occasion when his team has needed him. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. Our player of the week this week is the 2025 NBA Finals MVP. It is now official Shea Gildes Alexander. Colin, I was thinking about a cool way to frame this segment. And all I could

think about is like you mentioned with the Washington Bullets roster. You know, everything for me, as I'm talking about all-time greats, is kind of played through this lens of when I started really following the league closely, which for me was in like around 2005, 2006. You've been watching a lot NBA basketball for a really long time. You've seen a lot of stars come through the league as young players and leave the league as vets. What has been like your first impression of Shea Gildjus Alexander as a playoff performer in the NBA?

That if I go back to Kareem and the Sky Hook, which was unstoppable, unblockable, and he mastered a shot. I'd never seen a player master a shot when I first watched Kareem. I can remember as a kid in my backyard doing it, like nobody else shot the hook. Michael Jordan's mid-range game. If you look at a lot of the great players, beyond just scores, they are the master of their domain. Like, I do what I do, and they're all different looking. There was no other, there was no other Kareem.

You know, David Thompson was a little Michael, but Michael's mid-range game, he had three or four stock moves. you know, Tim Duncan, the great fundamental, is that a lot of the all-time great players, and I've said this about Mahomes, can be boring. They have mastered what they do, frustratingly so. And I look at a player who knows exactly what he is, but more importantly, he knows what he's not. and he leans into all of his skills. And I think when you watch them play, they can be uneven offensively. The greatest thing I can say about SGA, he's their clear dominant number one score.

So when you play them, I don't have to pick Tony Parker, Duncan, Manu. It's like, stop him and people can't. That, to me, is a fastball. Like that, you know, you can beat them and J. Dubb can have 32 or Chet could have 24 or Lou Dord hits five threes. But the numbers are if he gets to the free throw line, they win. Everybody in the league knows it. And they can't stop him. Like that is precision.

That is mastering a craft. And I just, I just have great respect for that. Yeah, the Dunkin comp is super fascinating to me because Shea doesn't have some super demonstrative personality on the court. He lacks a vertical element to his game. There's nothing that like, like people who play a lot of basketball, like I've stolen little bits of footwork and moves from him that I think are useful moves for young players to work on.

He's brought his own little kind of unique flare to the two guard position, just like Hardin did, just like Wade did, just like Kobe did, just like MJ did. He's got his own like kind of unique take on it. But similar to Duncan, even if there wasn't that, you know, overwhelming optical appeal. It's just surgically effective. And no matter what happened in this playoff run, the most reliable play type out there was give the ball to Shea at the nail.

And he's probably going to either draw a foul or get to a mid-range jump shot that he can hit about 55% of the time. And you know, you know, Colin, it has not been a perfect NBA finals for him. He had some rough games. But here's the thing. Just about every star struggles in their first NBA finals. LeBron struggled in his first two NBA finals. It is an impossible stage to be, to be, I shouldn't say it's impossible.

It's a very difficult stage to perform well in. And to his credit, every single moment in this series where things could have gone south. So like game two, you're down 1-0, you lose that game, series is probably over. Game 4, you're down to 1. You lose that game, the series is probably over. Game 5-2-2, you lose that game, series is probably over. In game 7, series tied, if you lose that game, obviously the series is over. in every one of those games, I thought he was awesome.

This is actually a hilarious stat, Colin, in the four games where I thought he played poorly, which was game one, game three, game four, and game six. In those games, he combined for just nine assists, okay, just nine in those four games. In the other three games, in game two, in game five, and in game seven, he had 30, 30 assists. He averaged 10 in those three games. And if you watch those games from the start, just surgical and precise with the way he was navigating the late double teams, the help at the rim, making the kickouts to three-point shooters, the role man, whether it's Hartenstein or Chet, I thought Chey, to his credit, every time the team needed him to be great in the series, he was great. And I think that is the stereotypical finals MVP performance. I thought he thoroughly deserved it.

And most players don't even do this well in their first time around. Well, my first impression, the sons were three and 17 when Katie didn't play this year. They stunk. It wasn't him. He still get a bucket. If he's a leader in Houston, it doesn't work. If you need a bucket in Houston, it works. And I think today you have to look at the Rockets.

My take is he's going to give you about 65 games in the regular season. If we get two healthy years, then everybody's going to watch Houston via for the NBA championship and feel like they dominated the trade. It is, however, a very good draft. So Phoenix gets the number two, 10 pick. Well, many people are theorizing there are 12 players in this draft, the top 12 players, who are all-star potential. So if they stay at 10 or move up to six or eight, they're getting a potentially really good player, probably with more than one year in college. And again, I don't think anybody will ever unlock Jalen Green. like I think he's the classic, doesn't have a defined game, never probably will.

But we can't deny that he can drop 30 in any given moment, that he's wildly talented. I don't like his game, but I'm not going to deny that he's, you know, long, twitchy, fast, very good transition player. He's just, and there are a lot of these guys in the NBA. You know, they come in and they're talented and maybe either they don't work on their game they don't get the right coaching, or they just, they probably have so much talent from sixth grade on that they never really, there's no catalyst for them to like really burrow down on a specialized, you know, not everybody is just driven as MJ, right?

Like, I'm reading the Caitlin Clark book. I mean, that girl's, she is MJ. She's obsessed. And it just like, not everybody's like that. Some people are just talented. And so, but between a man Thompson and Shangoon, is a beautiful touch, Kevin Durant, and a series of four or five very good young players. And I think Adoka's a very good coach.

That's a real team. But I think it's easy to look at Phoenix and just go, well, they got Greens productive. Dylan Brooks is a very good, small forward defender can give you 17 a night. You got the number 10 pick. You got a bunch of second round picks, which you can turn those into things. Phoenix wanted a little bit of a reboot. they got it. But people on the internet are like, oh, Houston dominant.

If Katie got hurt in Game 36, it wouldn't feel like Houston dominated, right? They're not bringing him there to be a foundational piece. They're bringing him in to get a bucket. Like he will not be, the leader of Shen Gune will still be the, I think the centerpiece of the team. A man, Thompson will be your best athlete and your defensive stopper. He's going to be a bucket guy. So that's why I think it works.

He's still one of the top. 23, 26 best players in the league, I would argue. I mean, I was on the plane when I was flying in today. I started writing down numbers, and I got to like 21. I'm like, he's in that space. And again, Phoenix was terrible when he didn't play. So that's my long-winded answer on. I think Houston will look like they won the trade, but Phoenix got assets too.

I think that what happened in Phoenix is a sign. that like yeah KD, Steph, LeBron, these guys, they're not floor raisers anymore at their age. They're not going to turn a bad roster into a 50 win team the way that 27 year old Nicola Yokic could. Like that goes without saying. I don't,

I do think though that KD has been dramatically underrated because he's been on such a poor roster. Yes. I put this together for you, Colin. This is three stats to show that Kevin Durant is still one of the very best players in the NBA. He was the best jump shooter in the world this year among 58 players.

in the NBA to take at least 500 jump shots. KD was the only player in the league to make over half of them. And in second place was Shea, who made 45%. And if you waited it for threes, his 1.22 points per shot was still number one in the NBA. Number two, he was the only player in the NBA last year to make at least 200 pull-up jump shots, meaning off the dribble while making more than half of them. And three, he was far and away the best isolation player in the world last year. Out of the 10 players ran at least 250 ISOs, his 1.16 points per

possession, including passes ranked number one in the league, a full six points per 100 possessions ahead of Shea, who is in second place. I think he is, when it comes to refined offensive skill, he's still one of the very best players in the league. I would put him in that six to 15 range depending on, and we haven't seen him play enough high levered basketball lately to see where he really lands in there, but I think he's still in that range. And if you ask me what the Rockets issue was, this is a deep team with a load of big physical athletes. If you ask me what their one weakness was, it's refined offensive skill. And that's what KD comes into address.

We were just talking about this with Desmond Bain and the Orlando Magic the other day. When you take a bunch of big athletes that kind of struggle with spacing, and you bring in a guy who like just run him off a screen and he's automatically going to pull two defenders out 30 feet from the basket, it unlocks a world of possibilities on the short roll. A men Thompson will be an amazing short role player. You know that thing that Draymond Green did for Steph where Steph would come on, of Draymond and take two players and then Draymond would go right down the middle of the floor and make the play that broke the defense down. That is a thing that Amend Thompson has been unable to do

in Houston because they just don't generate many of those opportunities because none of their shooters are good enough. KD will unlock that part of Amend Thompson's game. It is not a perfect roster. I was writing down all the names on the roster today. They're a little light on ball handling, but that sort of thing they can get. You know what's so funny, Colin? I remember when the son signed Tyos Jones last summer. I was like, why? You already have this redundancy of all these dudes you can dribble and you're just not athletic enough and you're not

good enough on defense. You need athletes and dudes that can like beat up people in these physical environments. You know who could really use Tyos Jones? Houston. I think they should call, I think Kevin Durant should call up Tyos tomorrow and be like, hey dude, come with me. Yeah, I think Phoenix. I wish Phoenix

would have gotten actually a size. I think Phoenix needs size and I think Houston needs a ball handler. And our takeaway, when we watch Golden State beat Houston, we were like, God, they're so bad in the half-court offense. If you stop Shen Goun, it's over, right? Like, it's just, and so you and I talked about this. He was a perfect fit there. I thought he worked in New York because of Jalen Brunson's, you know, has the ball a lot in his hands.

I thought he would work with that offense, whereas Kat can kind of, I always felt like Kat and Brunson were playing, you know, your turn, my turn, your turn, my turn. KD's kind of like, I'll sit in the, I did it with Russ Westbrook, I'll sit in the corner, get it to me eventually. So I think he fits really, really well. And I think they have the coach. I think, again, it's so hard to judge Houston because so much of their roster is young. I feel like everybody's in the fourth inning. I mean, Amin Thompson could take a big leap. I mean, Shengoon's the only one where I look at him and I think, oh, again, I use this word a lot, but that's a defined and refined offensive game.

He's got European touch. Like he has a game. A lot of their players, I feel like they're just in early innings. I don't know what they are. So, Amand Thompson's obviously defensively defined. He's so strong and athletic and aggressive. But KD gives them refinement. This is a second offensive player.

I know exactly what I'm getting. And that goes back to a little Oklahoma City. But one of the reasons Indiana gave OKC problems. Syacum has an offensive half-court game. Halliburton does. T.J. McConnell does. Like, that's three guys. Even Obie Toppin, when he hits threes, you're like, he's athletic and hit threes.

They had guys that they, Rick Carlisle knew, okay, this is what this player does. With Houston, Houston's like a younger OKC. I'm just not sure what everybody is. Like, I just need more guys than I go into a game and go, yeah, I'm going to get 24th tonight from KD, and I can drop two or three plays for him. So Houston, to me, is early innings. they could end up being, they could end up looking at, if you told me next year, a team explodes in the West and ends up winning by 7.8 points, I would guess Houston, because they have so many players that are just going to springboard to another level here in the next 50 to 100 basketball games. Oh, no, I totally agree. I think they have massive upside. I think they could very easily be the second best team in the West and the biggest threat to the Thunder next year. I think that's absolutely on the table. They match up well with OKC2 because they have all the big physical size. The ball handling will be the weakness as we.

saw with Indiana, even Oklahoma City struggled because of their lack of depth and ball handling against Indiana's ball pressure. But the youth, the thing that you're talking about in terms of the wide range of outcomes is super interesting because as I was breaking down their depth chart today, I'm looking at it and I'm like, okay, Fred Van Vleet, legit point guard, you know, Shangoon Center, KD's, you're four. A men Thompson, I think defensively functions as either a two or a three. So that could be either. But then it's like Jabari Smith Jr. is kind of a four. plays basically the same position as Katie. I don't think he moves his feet well enough to be a three.

Cam Whitmore could be one of those guys. Reed Shepard could be one of those guys, but like, who knows? And here's the other thing, too, Colin, Houston still gave up one first round draft pick in this deal. They still have a boatload of first round draft picks at their disposal. So they're high, they're like a high likelihood for like, we bring this team into camp, we watch them for 20 games and we go, oh, here are the two things we're missing.

That's exactly right. Let's go get what we need to. They're extremely well-equipped heading into this next season. That's where Houston won the trade. They didn't have to give up another first-round pick. That's where they won the trade. It's not just KD. Because my guess is, because of their depth,

they won't play KD more than like 60 to 65 games. They want him for the postseason. There's no reason to play him 75, 80 games. Because they also know if you're in the West, Jason, you know you're going to be in long series. So there's no, you know you're going to be a long series. So there's no, you know you're going to be in six-game series in the West. It's not like the East where you kind of feel like if Halliburton comes back next year,

they're just certain, you're going to win a lot of series really quickly. You're going to have long series in the West. No reason to have it. You know, I want KD going into the playoffs, you know, off about a two games and nine-day stretch, healthy and ready to go. And I think you have to think about that as a GM with an older player in the West. If you have a step for a KD, all these series are long series. they get a couple more ball handlers.

Like, that's the thing. Like, if they get a Tice Jones, if they get, you know, one other guy of that ilk, then they will be able to rest, Katie. Not just for the regular season, but even in the postseason, like, we saw Houston give themselves a really good chance to win games, even without high level offensive skill because they just go, here's Tari Isson and amend Thompson, and we're picking up full court, and you're turning the ball over now, and it's a mess.

Like, they are able, like, they are able to prevent the redundancy that, Phoenix had where you have a bunch of guys who do the same thing. On Houston, what KD does is so specialized for them that they kind of have an identity separate from him. So they will be able to win games without him. They will be able to carry the load so that he can come in and lift them over the top. I think it's a fantastic on-paper basketball fit. It'll be ugly sometimes. Katie's going to have some nights where maybe the statistical performance isn't there because it's ugly. They can't space the floor as well for him. But they will in turn do the same thing. to the other team.

So to buy Kevin that margin for air. Before we get out of here tonight, Colin, I did want to run this by you because I've seen a lot of victory lapping criticism, you know, let's just say the Phoenix Suns have been the butt of the joke today. Because they took Mikhail Bridges and Cam Johnson and Chris Paul. And they turned them into basically Bradley Beal and Dylan Brooks

and Jalen Green and one first round pick. I get that it looks bad. This is where my brain went this morning. They made it to the finals a year where because of COVID, everyone was hurt. And we had a Trey Young Hawks team in the conference finals, a Paul George Clippers team with an injured Kauai in the conference finals and that son's team. And by the way, they ran into Janus and Janus beat them four. straight times for the title. So they weren't good enough. Then the next year, they kind of have a

great regular season and Luca like embarrasses them, like embarrasses them for the world to see in the second round. They weren't good enough. So they made an aggressive trade. They went and got Kevin Durant. Every one of us would have done the same thing at that point in time. It was Kevin Durant. And we had just seen him be so amazing for Brooklyn in those couple of previous playoff runs. Even the Chris Paul thing. Now, I would argue they should have used Chris Paul's salary as a vehicle with which to bring in more size and athleticism. But you're like, you're like Chris Paul for Bradley Beale. Like, I mean, come on, right? You could talk yourself into it. Again, it wasn't perfect. There were mistakes. There are certain things I would have done differently. But now we're on the other side of this and it's like self-awareness. We're not good enough. We just missed the playoffs in the Western Conference.

Like, Katie misses a few games and we completely fall apart. Like, I understand it looks bad when you zoom out. but to me what happened to Phoenix is just what happens when you get aggressive and it doesn't work. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what should.

we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast

for people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and, friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsClyce brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo SlicLife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay.

Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world. right now. And I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. So I said today on the show, I said, listen, I'm not going to come in hot on the draft because it's a projection draft. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I mean, I just, I said, I think Cooper Flag is really good. I think he's a more aggressive, better defender right now at this point than Tatum. I said, I think he's really good. He's not good as Tatum. He's really good. The kid from Baylor, he's a disruptor defensively.

He looks like he's going a thousand miles an hour. I'm like, that's an NBA athlete. Is he going to score a lot? I don't know. I thought the Spurs did pretty well. What I do think, and I've talked about this a lot and I want your reaction, I've been on this now for about two months. There was about a 20-year period.

So you and I grew up with the Big East. And if you were a great player in the Big East, Pearl Washington, sort of an exception, or if you were a great team, you were going to be an NBA player. Ewing was going to be great in the NBA. I mean, it's just the way it was. There was about a 20-year run in college basketball. When the G-League happened, guys went to Europe, played one year of college, where, like, Doug McDermott was the college.

player of the year. Tyler Hansborough was, you go to the pros and they were rotational guys. And then two years ago, I watched Yukon and I went, oh, shit, they're seven NBA players. They have NBA length. These are great players. And I thought, oh, that team could play with UNLV and Duke. That is a real team. And the reason it happened was guys are staying maybe a year longer with NIL. Now American universities are poaching European players. I don't. honestly feel like the last two years when I've watched college, we had a 20-year period. We were trying to pretend the sport was good. And Jay Billis said this day or day.

NBA guys don't miss open shots. Like, it's just the seven-foot guy shoots better than the 6-2 guy in college. And I do feel like the NIL for all the bitching about it, Rick Bettino said this here today. It's kind of made the G-League irrelevant. I watched the playoffs, Indiana, Oklahoma City. You know, G-League guys? I mean, Amend Thompson's one of the only G-League Unite guys.

It's like the second, two-year college guys, three-year college guys. Chet Holmgren one year probably should have stayed a second because his offensive games hit and miss. But I do feel like the last two years I've watched college. And I think this will help the draft, Ryan, because it won't all be Euros. Even the Euros are coming and playing now at Texas. They're coming to play at Connecticut. I feel like college basketball was kind of unwatchable for 20 years. and people kept saying, oh, it's great.

It wasn't. It was diluted. It was bad. In the last two years, I've been glued to March Madness, and there's just more NBA dudes. College basketball is in a weird spot because, you know, growing up, I probably would rather watch Big Monday than NBA, you know, back when it was the Big East. And then, you know, it was incredible. And then you had those pack 10 teams that were loaded with NBA players, you know, going back to those UCLA squads.

I remember Washington State loving that team that year. Robbie Calgill. Well, I guess you want to talk about the NBA guys. So shout out to Robbie. But I'm with you because I think I even remember like you and Gottlieb arguing a bit about it being like, hey, look, college basketball is largely irrelevant up until we get to March. And with everything feeling like it has to be an event, which I think Silver is doing

with the NBA, it's like, hey, we've got the in-season tournament. We've got to play in. We have more almost like specialty events that we can partner in different. different ways. Like we're kind of just titling some of the same stuff. But, you know, if this means more revenue, then that's the game. And even though, like, I've talked about baseball with this being like, hey, be really happier, this incredibly successful local market thing and that your playoffs are an incredible product and you just hope that you have enough storylines to carry over that secondary interest. The tournament doesn't necessarily need all these crazy storylines

because the event itself is still one of the greatest sporting events in the world. But your right to point out, like, whether it was Ignite, we know it would scoot, they had Dyson, they had Hardy, Jamelin Green, Kaminga, and then you had the Amin Assar Thompson deal with overtime, I think.

Yeah. It was starting to feel like, okay, this is, this is like even more tenuous for a product that was already really struggling with its regular season in college basketball. So I think the tournament has always been something everybody's always going to care about because it's

basically like a football version of gambling in a different sport where it's just so much fun and you almost feel left out of American society if you're not in the tournament. I don't know that they're ever going to recover any of that stuff from the regular season, but the draft trends of what was happening with guys circumventing college because of the compensation, going to New Zealand, you know, playing the Australian League and they come back here. It hurt the draft. Likewise for you to have eight, what, college guys before Esengay, well, S and Gay went 11th.

So, well, no, Colin went, well, you went 11th. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other guy went ninth to Toronto. And even Yeager Demen, you know, he comes from Russia, but he's at BYU because of the NIL stuff. Whatever it was, and I don't know all of a sudden if everybody's going to, to be prioritizing regular season college basketball over the NBA. But there was something that was incredibly fearful as these other alternatives that the NIL has helped college basketball solve in the short term.

Yeah, no, I just, I watched the draft last night, and I watched the Yukon a couple years ago, and I watched March Madness, and I'm like, okay, I'm back into the sport. And I, I've always been sort of loyal to the number. Like, I stopped talking college football for about, 10 years because it was Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia. And I felt like nobody Denver West gives a, you know what. And when the, I remember when the PAC 12 sort of, when USC decided we're going in UCLA, I got a call. I was in Turks and Kekos with my family. And Eric Shanks called me and said, I just want to give you a heads up. This is going to be announced in about three hours.

I was in an airport and I couldn't tell anybody, but I started doing some social and having our staff get ready for it. And I remember thinking, oh, I can talk college, I can talk college football again. you know, like, oh, USC's going to a conference. And then there was a lot of talk even that about Washington, Oregon getting in. I'm like, okay, that's a real conference that they'll be able to compete. They'll get some Midwest kids. They'll get Big Ten money. They'll be more fortified because the Pac-12 was paying to $30 million a year.

Big Ten's paying you a 70. USC was complaining to me. It's like, we can't compete with anybody. We don't have the money. And so, like, I feel like, you know, I just, follow what the audience is following. And I would see those numbers. For Alabama couldn't sell up some home games.

I would see some of those numbers. And it was like, people were getting tired of it. I was getting tired of it. So Alabama, though, I don't know. I'm going to push back on that. Alabama was an incredibly spoiled fan base. To the point where Saban had to beg fans for day games to come in

on some of those lower level matchups because they just expected the national championship every time. I mean, it's the only campus that I'd ever been to when I used to travel for college game day because I did the radio part of it along with TV. where it was the only, it was the only campus. I'd be like, oh, game base here again. Like, whatever, you know, let's, I'm going to sleep in. You know, every other place, it's like a, not even a national holiday,

because you know it might not ever be coming back. So as you say that, though, like, let's be honest, would you have avoided talking college football based on some numbers if you were still at ESPN? Because I sensed an SEC, big 10 shift there, buddy, when you started, when you started, uh, work at somewhere else. No. Well, no, I would say this is that clat is a big 10 guy. And so, yeah. So I was always, I said this for years.

SEC is the best. They went on recruiting day. They went on draft day. They went on Saturday. That's the best. I don't want to hear it. But I did notice about four years ago. And when the NIL started and there's a lot of money in those big 10 schools, those are 60,000 student body. A lot of those graduates do very well. I started noticing like four years ago, I'm like, yeah, people are poaching Georgia and Bama and they don't, like, I think McSabin realized like before Texas came in, it's like, oh shit, Texas is bigger than Alabama. Texas looks better than Alabama.

So about four years ago, I started saying, and then it was the Harbaugh team before they won. I'm like, yeah, I think that's, they're as good as Georgia. Like I'm watching the Saturday, and I'm like, they got like 10 NFL guys. guys, you know, all over the field. Georgia maybe has 12. So I do think about four years ago, I just watched the games and it's like, you know, and I started watching Caitlin Clark,

I was just like, well, shit, she's shooting from 33 feet. That doesn't even make sense. I mean, the line's 22. So I tend to trust my eyes. And when the Big Ten, when Harbaugh's team the year before they won, I was like, oh, they caught up. At least the top of the Big Ten's as good as the top as the SEC. Yeah, I've heard this.

I actually think people are, like more unfair and how they critique the SEC than it is about being pro-SCC because I just see a lot of media members that all have Big Ten backgrounds that have been like incredibly celebratory about what's happened the last couple of years. Now, I've heard the NIL theory.

I think Saban would have figured it out if he was motivated to figure it out, but he may have been right. He's also over. He's been there since 2009 or no, 2007, excuse me, 2007, that first year where they lost to Louisiana Monroe. So, no, I'm trying to remember if I have that year right.

I feel like, I feel like I'm messing up a year because I would have been on college game day for Tuberville, Iron Bowl. They got smoked. I think that would have been 2008. So, anyway, I got to look that up. I need more results. I need more parity. I mean, I need more balance because, you know, the people that didn't like the SEC still didn't like the SEC when they had seven different national, or excuse me, seven national championships in a row. you could run through four or five programs.

You're like, okay, they could win a national championship. They're playing for a national championship. It didn't feel like the other conferences could be that deep. Certainly the Big Ten is in the conversation now, especially when you add a team like Oregon, you could say, hey, you're also adding Washington who plays in a national championship two years ago. So that puts them on the probable list,

even if that is probably more of an aberration for that program and just having an incredible year where everything kind of came together. So you might be entirely right about the balance of a flattened, out the top here a little bit. But I guess for the people that I know hated the SEC so much, they were still arguing against the conference when they were winning all these titles.

And so now if the standard is that... Yeah, I wasn't one of those. That the Big Ten has won back to back with two different teams the first time in 80 years, then the thing that you said didn't even matter when they were winning is now the thing that matters the most because you could also, you could also just say, hey, the SEC had an awful quarterback here. So maybe there is this shift, a shift that's long overdue. You know, sports are cyclical.

Maybe the Big Ten's about to have this incredible run. But it's very hard for me to say that because of the national championship results, and look, Tennessee looked just fucking frigid against Ohio State. That looked like a football team that was not interested in competing. And they get trucked in that game. I just have a hard time I like the people that do this for a living that are on the evaluation side

they're like that's still the best conference like are you like what's what's going on? I think the sixth best team I think I will say this year I think about the sixth best team in the Big Ten will be Washington and I think the sixth best team in the SEC could be Oklahoma

and so that to me is where about I think about where we're at. I think they're both. And if they played, it's a go either way game. Whoever is at home wins. Because I think Penn State's going to win it. I have picked, I remember when Ohio State lost to Michigan, I said my favorite part about college football is Ohio State's going to lose as a 20-point favorite in their last

big game and they're going to get into the tournament. And by the way, Kansas City, the year, the one the Super Bowl two years ago, got beat by Oakland in like weeks 16 or Las Vegas. And I'm like, yeah, they should be in the playoffs. I don't care. just like put the best teams in. I got Penn State winning it. Singleton's amazing.

Drew Aller's getting better. I think they're the best backfield by a mile in college sports. Just to clean it up. It was 2008, Iron Bowl. Tuberville did get smoked and that was his last season. So that's, I remember just being down there for that. But Sabin had already been there. Obviously the previous year when he had the bad record and people were like,

is this guy really going to be that good? He's really good on TV, by the way. Yeah, I think he, you know, I think he wants to, he takes it really seriously. Yes. Yeah. Like he's right. I know a couple of guys that are really close with him that are with them all the time when they're on the road.

And he is like adamant about making sure the stuff that he's talking about. Like he's he's not just out there. Like he cares. He actually cares like what are we doing? Oh, absolutely. How are we doing it? Which actually makes the most sense ever if you know anything about the guy where I remember this story because I'd been down there a bunch of different times and I really loved I just have so much

respect for Sabin I've loved interviewing him I always hated any Belichick comp because I was like Belichick is not interesting like he goes out of his way to not be interesting and that's like the game he's playing and Sabin is really thoughtful and for whatever reason people try to like lump them in because they were both successful and had kind of this tip they're not the same guy and look I think the world of Sabin and it seems like whatever he's going to do he wants to make sure like, okay, what's the best possible way for us to go ahead and do it, which is exactly the way he runs a football program. Well, yeah, it's when Urban Meyer is a friend of mine.

And like Urban watches film. Did I ever tell you my Urban? And that's when Urban comes on the show mine. Like, I will talk to him before the break. I'm like, have you watched, he will have watched film. I never forget years ago when LSU played Ohio State, Jim Tressel was the coach. And I saw Urban. I can tell this story now.

I saw Urban in, I think he was at Florida or was leaving or I forget what it was, but I think he was at Florida at the time. Yeah, because they had just won the national championship the year before. Yep, and they were, LSU was playing Ohio State. And I caught him in the hallway. He went on for about eight minutes. He literally described the game. He said, Ohio State will move the ball early.

Mo Claret had a big run early, I think, for a touchdown. He said, ultimately, LSU's got about twice as many good receivers, twice as many good running backs. They'll wear them down. They'll pull away in the second half and they'll win by like 14. And he went like for eight to ten minutes. He literally, I mean, he'd watched film for both teams. He literally, he recited the game. So I took that and went on the game and talked about the game, basically using all of his stuff and say, hey, listen, I just talked to somebody I trust, blah, blah, blah.

It made me sound so smart. but he, I like these ex-coaches because a lot of times, I mean, Sable will watch film before that Saturday show. Urban will go and watch film and break it down like a coach. And it's, and they're so freed, right? There's no pressure. They're watching film now without an agenda, not to protect anything. And I think both those guys provide something, that film knowledge that's really valuable to me as a consumer. Yeah.

So LSU wanted in 07 when they had the second. loss. Remember, that was the year in 2007 where UCF, Boston College of rank number two, West Virginia, if they'd beaten Pitt. It's still one of my favorite college football years ever, because whenever you go through any like the research packets for the upcoming weekend, it'll be like, this is the last time, the last time this happened was in 2007, because like 2007 was a free for all. And even though LSU had that second loss, they're like, look, I was going to vote this team back in. I remember Tressel after the fact saying that was a game when we were preparing for it. We knew we had no chance. And then they lost Ohio State. and excuse me Ohio State loses the Florida the next year and that was the thing like this is the Big Ten argument this is the Pro Big Ten argument that for years we were conditioned

like remember the Alabama Michigan State games where you would just go Jesus Oh 34 nothing or 357 That isn't happening as much anymore okay and that's not just about Michigan and Ohio State National Championships and I think they're kind of like further the point is that

We may be on the cusp of this thing that, like, is real. It's just so hard for me to think that, like, there's going to be another region. You know why, though? So here's my take on this. Alabama's doing car washes and bake sales. And Ohio State's not. Big Ten schools, most SEC schools are smaller schools. I think Auburn's like, is it 16,000, 18,000?

Wisconsin, Ohio State Michigan. Those are like small cities, man. I mean, it's nuts. And they, all those graduates go all across America and they go to New York and L.A. and they make a bunch of money and they give it back. It's much easier for these Big Ten schools. I mean, USC's now spending $20 million NIL, the 2026 class. They just went and bought this insane class.

And that's just because of NIL. That's not because they suddenly figured out how to recruit. They've got money. And so now the Big Ten's got Seattle, Los Angeles. Columbus, you know, these are massive. I mean, Penn State's got Philadelphia and New York graduates everywhere.

SEC is a lot of small towns, and I just don't think the NIL money, I mean, I just don't think they have the NIL money in most instance. I think Georgia does, but I don't think a lot of teams do. Georgia is also closest to the biggest city in the South, Atlanta. Well, there's more money, more attorneys, more doctors, There's more, you know, venture capitalists in Atlanta in the South and they're Georgia.

I do think sometimes, too, you'll have, you know, it's a very human nature thing, but you become motivated by something that you don't think you can get as opposed to expecting it, right? I mean, it's the King of the Mountain analogy here where, you know, as Georgia is motivated to spend when they put together these runs. Like, what if Alabama's not in the playoff for 10 year? What do you think, like, what do you think that NIL is going to be like? or whatever, you know, like Ohio State after losing to Michigan before the season. And it's still, this is one of the things I think with college football that even though people

love the expansion, I don't. It's more of a reflection of how much I hate to realignment. I've already done these rants far too many times. But I'm watching your network and it's Ohio State Michigan. And the broadcast is like, this is for everything. And it's like, yeah, except it isn't because Ohio State's going to lose this and then win a national championship. And I will forever miss that that is not on the line.

But yes, it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of this incredible rivalry and what was like an ugly, awesome, just a brutal game. And the emotions that game are just like they're on the TV screen. It's a fucking awesome product. But when I think about Ohio State this past off season and grabbing Caleb Downs as soon as Sabin's out of there, going to get Will Howard, which at the time, remember, like the summer was a bit of an argument.

and be like, hey, well, if he was that special, like, why is this guy leaving K State and all these things? And it just works. And we knew that it was supposedly this $20 million program. Is this about, Ohio State should always be able to fund all this stuff. You name the top blue blood programs, the places where it matters the most. I don't know that this is ever going to be an issue. But there is something about that void. There is something about feeling like this is bullshit that motivates you in a way that's just hard to replicate when you're used to all of success.

So I think that's what will probably happen amongst the top school. It's just a matter of like how many of these top programs do you think will have access to maybe a spending spree? And look, apparently now we have a cap at 20 million for an entire academic department. Yeah. Good luck figuring that one out. Good luck being the tennis coach. You know, like, hey, I really like this kid from Choate. You're like, yeah, well, our guy needs a sixth defensive back.

So, sorry. Yeah, that thing. A bit of a circus Yeah Well I told you It was only gonna take 30 minutes But that's not We can't talk for 30

This fucking thing's already got an hour Sorry I didn't mean to do that I really didn't I want I know you're busy I know you gotta do like 16 local hits In Spokane I feel terrible Are the Sonics coming back

So Well no man I just love Love talking to you You know how I feel about you So whatever you need Same here All right buddy

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