The Herd with Colin Cowherd - REACTION to J.J. Spaun winning the U.S. Open

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

John Middlekauff reacts to J.J. Spaun winning his first major at the U.S. Open at Oakmont Country Club in Pittsburgh, PA. John revisits his previous take regarding if Cinderellas in gold are done in regards to Spaun pulling off an improbable victory. John debates whether the Oakmont course is the most difficult in America. John also reacts to Rory McIlroy's continued confrontations with the media and wraps up with a Middlekauff Mailbag to answer your golf questions. 03:43 - Are Cinderella's actually dead? 06:31 - J.J. Spaun 14:39 - Oakmont is the hardest course in America 29:07 - NBC U.S. Open broadcast 29:35 - Rory McIlroy vs the Media 36:13 - Mailbag 36:42 - What's going on with Rory McIlroy? 39:50 - Unfair coverage for LIV golfers at Majors? 43:48 - Should the PGA tour consider more difficult courses? 46:02 - LIV Golf 50:40 - Benefits of finger lock grip style 52:12 - How to play a consistent 18 holes Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The volume. What is going on, everybody, John Middlecock 3 and out podcast? How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well. And probably not as well as JJ Spahn, who just won the U.S. Open. J.J. Spawn at 120 to 1 on Draft Kings before Thursday, and he took the first round lead, was

121 to win. So one of my big takeaways or takes coming into this tournament was Cinderella's or dead. I believed it too because of the Zanders, the Rorys, the Shephlers, the ROMs, the Brisons, they had just taken over the majors for the last six or seven majors. And honestly, it hadn't even been that Close. And then JJ Spawn, 120 to 1, wins the U.S. Open. Very, very cool. Awesome moment for him on, really on 17 and 18. It's always cool to see, like, the underdog bang some, like, 80-foot putt.

And, like, how's he going to celebrate? And he's hugging his caddy. So we'll dive into JJ Spawn. The course, obviously, is a fascinating conversation because do we want chaos? Do we want carnage? I thought I did. and then as a consumer on my couch for the last couple days. I don't know.

Is this doing it for me? Do I like some more birdies? Do I like it this difficult? So we'll dive into that. We'll take some of your questions as well. At Golo Pod is where we do our golf podcast. I think we get some questions about Rory McElroy and his, I don't really know what's going on with Rory,

but kind of a bizarre couple months after an incredibly hot start to the year and finally winning the Masters, kind of going the other way. somehow Scotty Sheffler still like finished I think in the top ten At one point in times It was like a Scottie Sheffer A couple of puts away from winning this tournament

His floor is incredibly high But he didn't And the still photo of him at the end Look like he'd had enough Like he'd just climb Mount Everest But you can listen to this podcast If you listen on Collins feed Make sure you subscribe to Three and Out podcast

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and redeem the code, John for $20 off. Down the Game Time app today, last minute tickets lowest prices guaranteed. When I said, I think on our preview U.S. Open Pod, we did five of the biggest stories that I thought coming into the weekend. Obviously, Bryson, Scotty, Rory led the charge when it came to players. And then my two other big stories were Cinderella's are dead and obviously

Oakmont, the course anytime you go to widely considered the hardest course in America. And that's the player saying that. That's just not the media or people on the outside. The players are all reiterating. This is the hardest course I've ever played. but I truly believed when you factored in the difficulty, my take on the Cinderella was just based on evidence. Ever since the split, we have seen a couple guys rise. Obviously, Bryson has become a dominant, dominant player. He got ejected this week.

But Rory, Scotty, Zander, I mean, the top guys, and it's not even just the top guys, it's who they're competing with down the stretch, right? It was Rory versus Bryson. It's been Scotty versus Moracalla and Ludwig. it's been Scotty versus Rom. It's been you know, Rory and Xander

versus Hovlin. It's been the top guys all duking it out in the majors for the last couple years. And not since Wyndham Clark like two years ago have we had like, God, didn't see that one coming. And even looking back at that one, you saw the picture that went viral from Tron at No Lang Up.

I mean, Windham losing his mind in that locker room. But I don't just say things to say them. I truly believe it's going to be really, really difficult given where we're at with technology, given it how far these guys are hitting it, and how well the top guys are playing. I mean, Rory's finished in like the top

seven in the U.S. Open for like six straight U.S. opens and literally finished second, the last two. Scotty's on a tiger-like run. Listen, say what you want about Bryson. I mean, up until this weekend and really up until Friday, he had been a dominant player in the majors. So it's like

you have some guys. I mean, those three guys, when their careers are over are going to be known as some of the greatest players of all time. They're in their prime. I mean, Roy's a little older, but they're dominating in these big moments. Like, how can you bet against them? And then every once in a while,

in a sport like this, and this is where it paralleled tennis so perfectly. It's like, and I'm not some huge tennis guy, but for the last 30 years, at least of my life, of following sports, when I was young, it was like Agassian-Sampras, then it turned into Federer, Nadal, Jokovic and now it's this crew of like

Alcatraz and this guy's center and it's just the same guys, every single Grand Slam are either in the final four or in the finals. And for the most part if there's a group of three or four of them, two of them are a lock to be in the finals. And that's what it felt like golf was going to be like. And then this week happened. And it's one thing,

golf tournaments are long. Anyone who's been gambling on golf knows that when you take a first round lead, you can't just like put that guy in stuff. It's really hard to fend everyone off. Obviously, JJ Spawn played excellent on Thursday. On a course that was kicking everyone's ass. You had guys struggling to break like 75.

He shoots 400 par. He doesn't make a bogey. And he's just kind of rolling. And he's had an excellent season. He has multiple seconds. I try to figure out how much money he had made in his career. It's hard because the PGA app is so delayed. I think give or take he had about he had made.

Now, he's 34 years old. And he's been on tour for a while. Like $12 or $13 million. so far in his career, which obviously for most of society is a lot of money, but relative to golfers, you know, nothing crazy, right? This year, coming into this tournament, he had made like $5.5 million. After today, which I think the prize was about $4.3 million, he will have made about $10 million this year. So he won't have doubled how much he has made through the course of his career,

but he made about 40% of his career earnings in the last six months. He is on an incredible heater this year. And I'm kicking myself, not because I should have bet on him, but I'll never forget, it was probably like January. I'm in the car. When I'm driving around running errands in the morning, I typically will flip around between Coward and the Golf Channel. And Colt Nose, who works for CBS and his podcast partner Sleez,

they have a radio show. And Colt was saying, I just played with JJ. It might have been the member guest. It might have been the member member or some tournament at Whisper Rock, where all the good players play golf here in Scottsdale. And it's like, I'm telling you, this fucking guy is playing at a really, really high level. Obviously, Colt played on the PJ tour, played at SMU, knows what it looks like. So I was like, God.

And then I actually think the next week was the Honda in Hawaii and JJ played really well. And if you've just watched his season, like he became or he was a revolution. I mean, literally a ball revolution at Sawgrass from winning the players in regulation. Then he goes in the extras on Monday, hits it in the water, and gets boat raced. It happens. Finish the second. Still makes $2.5 million, or $2.2 million. Probably more money than he'd ever made in a tournament in his life.

He only had one career win coming into this season. And then today, you know, you're watching, obviously it's just a complete blood bath. You're like, what's the final score going to be? It felt like before the rain came, my name. is two or three, and he's just like bogey, bogey. On the second hole, he hits the pin. It goes back like 100 yards, gets totally boned. I think on the third hole he hits the rake.

I mean, he's just getting bad break after bad break, and you're like, I don't even think he's playing that bad, but relative to the other scores, you're like, it just might not be his day. Listen, your JJ Spawn, you finish fourth or fifth at the U.S. Open. That's an incredible accomplishment. Like, that's a really, really big deal. I would bet if I pulled up JJ Spawn's Wikipedia right now,

He has never finished before today in the top five in a major. No chance, actually. I would 100% bet against that. Looking today, he has never finished. He has one top 25 in his career in majors, and that was at the Masters in 2022. He hasn't even played in the Masters in 23, 24. He played this year.

He finished 37th at the PGA Championship. He did not play in a major in 24. He played in one major in 23, and he missed the cut. He played in two majors in 22, and he missed the cut in one of them. He played in one major in 21 and missed the cut. And just a couple weeks ago at the memorial,

he also missed the cut. So this is a guy that like, you know, it's the crazy part about golf. That any moment you get hot, you get in the right position in a tournament like the U.S. Open, a lot of stuff, like in any golf tournament, a lot of it's out of your control.

And luckily, the course just started ejecting guy after guy. I mean, at one point today, it looked like Sam Bird's going to win the U.S. Open. Sam Burns are going to win the U.S. Open. And then you look up, you're like, did Sam Burns, where did he finish? Sam Burns finished tied for seventh. Him and Adam Scott,

it felt like one of those two guys was going to win it with like eight or nine holes left. Adam Scott, Adam Scott shot 79 today. Both those guys shot 79 and 78. And J.J. Spong just kept plugging. He kept plugging. He kept plugging. All of a sudden, it's like, God, he's even.

And everyone's over par. And then he fucking drives the green on 17, hits the shot of his life. honestly, it reminded me a little bit. If you can remember back to 2020 when Colin Moracawa won the PGA championship at Harding Park, it's 16 or 17,

I think it's 17. Cool course, but it's 17 to driveable par 4. I mean, if you're playing the tips, you've got to hit a perfect drive. And he played that cut, he drove the green, tapped in for Eagle, and he won the tournament.

I mean, it was the reason he won the tournament. When he drove that green on 17, you're like, I texted a buddy immediately. I'm like, if he knocked this in for Eagle, it's over. And then he two-puds for Birdie, and you're like, God, he's in pretty good shape. And then everyone else is falling apart. Hovlin, you know, screws it. I guess Hovlin made a good chip on 17, but was still a couple back.

You're like, I don't know, he's going to need him to bogey and he'd have to birdie. This is going to be JJ's moment. And then he knocks it in on 18 that my take was humbled by the fact that in golf, randoms, especially in the U.S. Open. Like the Masters, there are going to be people that play well there, but the top dogs in golf, especially now that Rory's won it, Scottie Shepler's obviously extremely comfortable there. You know, John Robb is extremely comfortable there, right?

Those guys are going to be factors if they're playing well. Bryson has kind of figured that out. The PGA Championship, for the most part, does not play like the U.S. Open. So length is a big factor. And if you look, Scotty Schaeffler, John Rom, last year, Zander Schoffley, Victor Hovlin, Bryson D. Shambot, I do believe those two tournaments are typically going to be, I might need to change my outlook a little bit for the U.S. Open,

because when you get moments like this, and listen, I root for carnage. I do. One time a year, I'm cool with it. But then you're watching it, you're like, is this that fun to watch? Like, I respect the shit out of all these guys. I can't even imagine how difficult that course was, just to play 18 holes. Like, that wasn't fun for anyone. I mean, it was fun for JJ when he won it.

But, I mean, it was, he was probably wanting to shatter clubs. Like, this is going off the rails, right? The rough was outrageously long. The greens are, I think one problem with this course, which, again, is known as the hardest course in America, is, I heard, I was listening to one of No Langups post round. It might have been on Thursday. And one of their guys, Neil said that, you know, the hard part about this course is like A lot of famous courses, there are different landmarks, and you got a pretty good idea.

Oh, now they're on this hole. This is the shot you need to hit on this hole. Oh, I love this par three. If you go to some of the most famous courses, right? Obviously, the masters were very comfortable with. Pebble Beach, we're very comfortable with the layout of the course. Some of the holes at St. Andrews. And then you get to this course, which has the universal respect, number one course in terms of difficulty in America,

and all the holes kind of blend together. So from a viewing standpoint, if you've never played there, you're going 14, kind of looks like 15, kind of looks like 13, this is another long par three. So that part of the viewing experience

isn't that exciting. Besides, you just know, if you miss the fairway, we all know you're fucked. And after you've watched a couple days that you're like, this guy's got no chance, this guy's screwed,

I don't even need them to break it down. So there's a randomness if you do not hit it straight off the fairway, on a lot of tournaments, especially the Bastars, doesn't really matter as much, always factored in the U.S. Open. This one is legitimately impossible.

And especially as it got wet, it got even crazier. So there was, and I'm not trying to diminish anything from JJ Spawn's victory, but there was, it felt like a little more randomness with this tournament than typically in the major tournaments. Right?

I'm not saying J.J. Spawn was not the best player because he had the lowest score, but this thing felt a little wacky. And listen, maybe that's just part of U.S. opens. But I do think the golf media in general, they're huge on this golf on the ball rollback. They're beating that drum, ball rollback. You know two people that do not care about the ball rollback? The players, they don't want it.

And the fans don't care. But the media is driving this. Then they love it. And listen, there are like, I do understand if they hit it a little bit shorter, they'd have more options at different courses. True. But the one thing you see is like some of these shootouts. The media hated the ball hauler last year when Zander won.

Guess what? Pretty entertaining for most people. Because birdies at a course like this are very hard to come by, which is part for the course at the U.S. Open. But as just a consumer, you know, the ending of the tournament is exhilarating. But like, I'd say 60 plus holes of the tournament was kind of like, I mean, and I get it, Johnny Miller's taking shots like Bryson D. Chambot.

You know why he's watching. this tournament this weekend because he can't hit a fairway and part of US opens hit in the fairway. I get it. But this is an individual sport and it's driven by the stars. And when you're just kicking half the stars out before Saturday, and while Scotty was kind of in the mix, he kind of wasn't, but, you know, Rory, who knows, shooting 75 every day, hucking clubs, shattering T-boxes,

it does diminish the experience a little bit. Now, luckily, this is only one time a year and you could argue, it's like once every four or five years because of the course. But while I came into this tournament thinking Cinderella's had no chance, dead wrong, and I couldn't wait to watch the course kick the players ass. I kind of got to take the L on that too because I'm watching and I'm like, I'm kind of bored, I'm going to go play golf on Saturday. I consume major golf course tournaments like I do NFL football.

Like I love it. And I just, I'm glued to the couch. My wife knows there is the Super Bowl and then there are four other Super Bowl. and they're called the Masters, the PGA, the U.S. Open, and the British Open. Now, luckily the British Open so early time, we've got half our days, you know, on Saturday and Sunday. But this tournament, like, it's a pretty big deal on Saturday and Sunday. Didn't do that much for me. And I do, I'll be interested to see the television ratings.

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I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

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And the green looked like a roof. You know how roofs slant? That's what the green look like. You're like, this is, this looks impossible. How could you put on something that looks like it has a 45 degree slope? What do they always say about the masters? The television does not do it justice because you can't tell the undulation of the holes, how the downslope and the upslopes and no lie.

is flat. Though on TV an overhead shot, it kind of looks like a football field. It looks flat. And even with these greens, which are clearly sloped, just at an extreme level, when they have the overhead shot of Victor Hovlin with the putt, you can tell he's playing it five feet to the right or seven feet to the left because that's where the ball starts, but you can't understand it with the slope of the green. So you could argue that the cool aspect of the course does not show on television. And let's face it, most people that consume this tournament are not on the property. This is a television product. That's the point of this business model. And NBC takes a lot of shit because, one, they bought this tournament back from Fox for like 50%, I think even less than 50 cents

on the dollar. It might have been for like 30 cents on the dollar. And they do exactly what they've done before they bought the tournament. I mean, there are a lot of shots today that they don't even have shot tracker on. Like, guys, this isn't the cognizant that this is. That this is, isn't the Honda classic. This is the U.S. Open. How do I not have a shot tracer on every fucking shot? This is 2025. But I think you could argue that television didn't do this course justice.

Because as the tournament went on, the course does feel a little bland on television, which clearly it's not. And anyone that plays it, and if you watch any of these YouTube videos of the guys, of the creators, of Bryson, the course looks cool the way they do it. Yet

when they're doing it on television, it's just not quite as good. So, I guess that's a long-winded way of saying, I was a little disappointed as a viewer. And I don't even know if it's the course's fault because the course lived up to the hype. I mean, one guy under par. At the beginning of the week,

they started polling all these players, like, would you sign up for even par? Would you sign up for two over par? And I mean, a lot of these guys were taking these scores. And looking back, you 100% would have signed up for even par. Right? I mean, it took a guy making a 70-foot putt or whatever on 18, to break even par.

So the course lived up to the hype. It kicked the shit out of everybody. I mean, it destroyed most of these guys. So, I mean, Bryce and Deschambeau, not even sniffing the cut, you know, ejecting the Justin Thomas's some of these guys was, I guess, cool. But then at the same time, it's like,

do you really want that? I kind of'm torn. But, I mean, some of these guys down the stretch today, hadn't fell apart. Hovlin actually played pretty well. Robert McIntyre. I mean, look who played pretty well in this tournament beside JJ Spawn.

Robert McIntyre, international guy, used to the elements. Hovlin, grew up in like fucking Iceland. Cam Young from New York. Haddon, UK. Rom, comfortable in the elements. Obviously, Schaeffler is, couldn't putt. So, I mean, Ben Griffin having himself a good season.

Zander Shofley, the sneakiest T-12 I've ever seen. I don't know if I saw Zander Shafley hit a shot today. Shot 69. Kepka actually pretty solid T-12 as well. 73-71 on the weekend. But Roy McElroy somehow finished in the top 20. Did not see.

If you would have asked me before I just looked at the leaderboard, where do you think Rory McElroy finished? I would have been like 33rd, tied for 33rd. He finished tied for 19th. So it shows you. And tied for 19th was plus 7. Like you finished in the top 25. Jordan Spieth finished in the top 25 with 8 over par

shooting 72 on Sunday So I mean I think at the end of the day I don't think this is something that people would want a lot And that that's always something that people push back against When it comes to this tournament Or just tournaments in general is it's too easy, too many birdie fest I do think that's kind of entertaining You know I think we see this in the end

NBA, people push against three-pointers. And I think there is a line where three-pointers can be boring. Just like there are a line, like when Steph Curry and Clay Thompson were hot in their prime, they could shoot 103-pointers and everyone's entertained. Right? But do I want to see some random guy shooting 28% bombing threes from the corner? Right? No.

Right? Do I want to see tournament after tournament where 30 under par is winning the tournament? No. But do we make too big of a deal about 17-8? 18 under. I think we probably do. Because, and that's hard. It's why some of these guys, it's difficult for them to play. And I think if anyone that follows the Corn Fairy Tour, you know, on a weekly basis to make the cut on the Corn Fairy Tour, it's usually like, I don't know what the average is over the last couple of years, but if I had to take an educated guess, I'd bet it's like six or seven under. And typically, a lot of these tournaments to win the Corn Fairy Tour is well over 20.

so that means if you're like 10 or 11 under on the week you're probably not sniffing a top 20 and like there's a balance of that you don't want to see that on the PJ tour but we do like explosive moments and that speaks of the day to day where I felt like it lacked a little juice like it kind of wasn't working

I got a pretty good idea I think what works and what doesn't when it comes to some of these events I'm like I don't know something's just a little off and listen individuals sport, not huge names, might have been it, might have just been the nature of every single guy getting their ass kicked. But they go to this crazy rain delay. And anyone that, if you're watching this, then you, you know, live in the northeast or the south. I've never lived in the south, but, you know, being in Philly, I would imagine Pittsburgh, same thing, these, these

rainstorms can come through. And for a 45 minute, hour and a half, it feels like, is this the hardest I've ever seen or felt it rain? Then all of a sudden it's just gone. And that that clearly happen. And they go to a rain delay. And NBC immediately just goes, they don't even go to like Dan Hicks or Torrico. It's like, hey, you want to get a mic in front of Sam Burns, Adam Scott, J.J. Spahn, Torell Haddon. You want to just bullshit with these guys? People might be cool content. Hey, you want to get a caddy on camera? What's it like out there? What are you guys doing? What do you experience? You want to get some guys that just finished? Hey, hey, can we use you for like 20 minutes to kill some time? Kind of do a roundtable? Can you imagine the NFL if there was a delay in a game? And, you know,

and it was going to be like 30 minutes in a huge game, a playoff game or a late December game, going to an event from like 2008. And they went to Tiger, which I understand, because if I'm an NBC executive and we need a break and we're not going to do any content on site, which is fucking insane. We're just going to cut to something pre-recorded. They didn't go to last year's event. Hell, they didn't even go to 2016, Okamont, where the tournament was being held. They went all the way back to 2008 Tiger Woods.

2008 Tiger Woods. But they went to the Saturday round. Why? Because Saturday round, he's making like crazy Eagles, he's chipping it in. It was incredible. But think about that. They went to a delay at NBC, went to 2008 Tiger Woods, Saturday.

And they didn't really even explain it. They just threw it up there. I was like, okay, I'll watch this for a little bit. And it was cool. First shot they showed, it was him hitting it from like the patrons to the back of the green where he ended up making like a 100 foot eagle putt.

But it's like, what are we doing here? And it's why, like, I do think the criticism of the network and NBC and the way that they do golf, because think about how they do football, it's a big deal. It feels like a Super Bowl every night, how seriously they take the NFL. With Toriko, with Collinsworth, the production, it's a real big deal. And it does feel like with golf, it's like I couldn't believe when they went to the rain delay, which is no one's fault, nothing you can do, that they just immediately went to Tiger Woods 2008 Saturday round.

It's like, guys, you got all these players intense, just get a guy on a mic. They're literally doing that, they're just sitting there. Hey, JJ, what was it like when your ball hit the pin? Are you mentally losing it right now? Hey, Sam, do you feel like you're in pretty good position to win this tournament? Adam. what are the nerves like right now

knowing that you have an opportunity to win your second major of your career and like they were talking about on the broadcast become a hall of famer because Adam Scott has said I guess in the past that he doesn't view himself

as a hall of famer because he only has one major they didn't do any of that all these guys are sitting around got a million fucking microphones I'm crazy it's crazy how bad my allergies are here in Arizona

I've never had allergies in my life and my allergies now are pretty outrageous I did want to hit on this. Roy McElroy. And I went back, I'm glad that I didn't react on Saturday night to this tournament because I think it would have been probably pretty aggressive. Roy McElroy is acting like the press,

treat him like he's a sitting president or something. Like he is about to be asked like, what do you think of the ice raids and what's your stance on the trans movement? I mean, they're literally asking you, Rory, how's your driver working? Why did you hit a sand wedge on 13? And I do get, when you go back to the PGA championship, and the driver story leaked clearly the people at the PGA

that test the driver told the media about Rory and that's where the story leaked, even though Scotty Schaeffler and other guys also failed the test. So in that individual instance, I get being mad and I get even not talking for a couple days. I get it. Totally understandable. Emotions run high. Even if I technically kind of want to disagree with like,

bro, you're the most famous guy in the sport, part of being Michael Jordan, part of being in Tiger Woods. Part of being in this position is like taking the arrow sometimes, which you have in the past, but it doesn't just end when you arbitrarily want it to end. But in an individual instance, I get being like, F you guys.

Totally understandable. Now we're like two months later. And for him to come out and say like, I'm mad at you guys. like, what are you talking about? Like, mad at some guy that writes for golf.com? Like, Rory. To say, and I saw Paul McGinley, who is a big part of the Golf Channel, say, like, I don't really recognize this Rory.

He does just look kind of angry. Now, obviously, this course can be pretty frustrating, but he helicoptered countless clubs. He shattered a T-box. He's refusing to talk. the majority of the time. So listen, I'm not into psycho-analyzing what's going on in the guy's life. Who knows what's happening at his home. He had a divorce that almost happened a year ago.

They reconciled. You never know. Sometimes problems don't just go away. But clearly, whatever's going on right now for a guy that looked like his season was about to be a rocket ship, he won Pebble, won the players, then won the fucking masters. If you would have bet at that moment, you think Rory's going to go on to have a massive season, win like five times another major,

or if you would have said, do you think he's just going to mail it in and suck from there on out? I think 90% of people would have been like, he's going to have an awesome season. No pressure. Everyone's supporting him. He's just, everyone's rooting for him. It's fun to watch him play.

He's just kind of vibing. And it's been the complete opposite. And listen, money, success impacts us all differently. Rory's been rich for a long time. So money doesn't impact how hard he's been practicing. He's grinded the last 10 years trying to win a major. He has been filthy rich. But clearly that moment of winning that championship,

whatever that did off the course, to me has manifested it into the way he's kind of operating and acting, and we're getting a different guy. Because whatever's going on is not the human that we witnessed destroy J.J. Spahn in that playoff to make those incredible shots on Sunday. at the Masters. And that sucks. You know? Like it...

Listen, did it suck to have Bryson missed the cut? Of course, it's golf. It happens. Right? I mean, look at John Rom last year. Had a foot issue, played bad in the majors. Kind of got his mojo back. And John Rom's just kind of back being in the mix. Scotty's had some weird moments. Last year at the

British Open, you know, was bitching and moaning. Like, I give you, it's golf. It's hard. Right? But whatever's going on with Rory is not an enjoyable experience. And I don't know why. I mean, he's not really given much insight into it. But I think we're past the point of like he's just mad at the quote unquote media.

That like Sirius XM and golf.com and the PGA tour.com are asking, hey, Rorya, what's up with the driver? Hey, Rorya, how was that seven iron on 14? Like, bro, what are we even talking about? that there can never, there's never been a time in the history of sports where it's been easier to be an athlete and get asked questions. And there's definitely never been a time where it's easier to be a golfer and get asked questions. I think it shows what a complete, listen, golf has always been a rich man's country club bubble sport. It has become less like that to the public given there are more public courses and access to golf, though the prices post-2020 are outrageous in most of these places where we live.

I mean, to play a shit-banger course is like $60, $100. You used to be able to find the crappiest course in America you could play for like $10, $20. Now it's like you couldn't sniff a course for $150 and anything half decent running like $150. So maybe it's shifting back the other way. But a lot of these guys on tour live in their little bubble, remember at all these country clubs, fly private for, you know, starting in their early 20s. Hard to have a great grasp on society.

In a weird way, it felt like Rory did. And now whatever happened over the course of the last couple months, it felt like he's kind of lost it. It's why sometimes when you see a Cinderella moment happen, like J.J. Spawn, you kind of find yourself rooting for it because you're like, that guy's kind of relatable, unlike some of these other guys, right? Like, I bet J.J. Spawn flies a lot on commercial airlines.

I bet JJ Spawn doesn't live in the biggest house in Scottsdale. I bet JJ Spawn like drives a car that more often than that's going to look like mine or yours than DJs, right? And it's why, like as it kind of took shape, it's got to ruin for him. Listen, anytime you're the guy at the top of the mountain, it's where the wind blows the hardest. So you're going to take the most shit. Ask LeBron, ask Brady, ask Tiger, ask Rory. But like part of it is like more. is asked of you to have thick skin and be able to handle it. And for him to constantly be mad,

I just, bro, your life ain't that bad, unless it is. And we just don't know. I mean, I don't know. It's just very bizarre. And honestly, kind of off-putting, you know, as someone that roots for the guy. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action-packed live events to gripping behind-the-scenes documentaries to hard-hitting investigative pieces and in-depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams. Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to viseTV.com to find your cable channel.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast. podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys. remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand, because I don't. competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenshin won. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Let's end on this. Let's answer a couple questions and get out of here. At Golopod.

At Golopod is the Instagram. You guys can fire in those DMs whenever. I don't even, I mean, is there a golf tournament this week? Maybe is it travelers in two weeks? Who knows? There might be a signature event this week. I haven't even looked. But if there is, maybe we'll do some gambling stuff later this week.

But at Golopod, firing those DMs, get your questions answered on the show. This is from Cal. Question. What's going on with this guy? He needs to be admitted to the looney bin or just get some medication. He's speaking about Rory. When a USGA official, he sent me this post, approached Rory about his media availability as he walked from the scoring room to the clubhouse

without stopping and said, I'm good and kept on walking. He did talk on Saturday, but I'm with you. It's just, it's a lot of people, when you're just a nice guy, if you're in the public eye all the time, you're going to screw up. You're going to say things that are going to piss people off. I'm sure I say things every single day on my podcast that someone disagrees with, whether it's a serious thing, whether it's not serious. It's part of, you know, talking.

and anytime that you're a pro athlete and you're the top pro athlete, you're talking in front of a camera and a microphone all the time. Like, you're allowed to make mistakes. But I think this Rory is like owning himself in this situation. He's making it worse. A lot like Morikawa did a couple months ago. It's like, bro, this isn't this complicated. These people aren't asking you tough questions.

Just say, yeah, man, I was emotional. I stormed off on Sunday. I regret doing that. I was pissed off. I wanted to win. totally get it we all would too if we were in your shoes it's not that fucking big a deal but constantly doubling down like screw you i don't know you shit like bro who are you even talking about who are you talking to and you do owe the television partner something you do all these tournaments that you

are making money off something where do you think the money comes from the sponsors do you think this money just comes from the sky now rory is so rich he's so out of touch with that flow uh maybe he just at this point doesn't give a shit anymore which kind of feels that way because it doesn't feel like he cares that much which is his prerogative but him saying like oh they can't force me to do it it's like Roy it's not about forcing or not forcing

it's just about like this is the business you're in we all have parts of whatever business we're in that suck every single human whether you're in sales whether you're a janitor whether you run a construction company whether you're a doctor there's a part of every single one of our jobs no matter what if you start in quarterback whether you

CEO of your Jamie Diamond, you run Chase, there is literally something or a couple things in your daily, you know, operating, you know,

operation that you do, you despise doing, that you put off or something you do on a weekly basis. You're like, I'm dreading doing this. Welcome to life.

And you still got to do it. And we're always like, well, technically I don't have to do it. Yeah, you don't have to do it. But speaking is part of, I don't know,

this business. that is professional sports and the generating mechanism that brings the, I don't know, cash that pays for your hundreds and millions of dollars that you have in the bank. It doesn't just exist because you're awesome at golf. There are a lot of dudes awesome at golf all over the world

that no one ever watches play. But you play on this PGA tour that's this vehicle to generate the coin. Do you think the question for the Golo of Mailback, speaking of the PGA Tour and Liv, Do you think the golf world, more specifically the broadcast partners, can ever get over the Live PGA split? I watch both tours pretty regularly, and I find it frustrating at the majors when they just put, when they hardly go into detail on any of the Live guys.

A great example is Ortiz. As I type this, he's within striking distance on a Sunday in a major. The broadcast only says he's never finished as high in a major. The dude is having a really solid year on Live. I just don't get why we can't celebrate all golfers regardless of where they choose to play. Cheers, brother. Well, I think you'd have to ask them specifically. I mean, was it last year in the U.S. Open when Brandel Shambly was, I mean, actively rooting for Rory against Bryson?

Like, he can't. I like Brambley. I'm a huge Brandl Shambly fan, but he can't deny that. He was rooting for Rory. But we know where he stands. Tweets about it all the time. Listen, some people, definitely in the media.

And to some people in general, you know, get very, uh, on their moral high horse about the Saudi situation. It's like, guys, our country's balls deep in business with them. Like,

so it's like, give me, you're going to worry about the golfers. Like, give me a break. I, I never even, you know,

live is paying us now. We're talking about a little, me and Colin. But I, anyone that's listening to me for a long time, morally I was unfazed by it. I did not. care. I would have taken the money too if they would have thrown in front of me.

If you would offer me $200 million like Bryson Deschamboro, Brooks, Kepka, there's zero chance I would have turned it down. None. And I think there's a jealousy factor on the players, some of them that stayed because they clearly could have got $100, $150 million. And that money's gone now. That money no longer exists in the sense of it's been reported that lives done, giving out the huge bonuses. Bryson just talked about it, about, you know, renegotiating. We'll have to see that plays out. Now, he's kind of an outlier, but I do think the broadcast partners, like whoever you're in business with, and it's a serious business partner,

so let's use CBS. CBS is embedded with the PGA Tour. The PGA Tour is a huge deal to CBS. It's a lot of programming for them throughout the year. And they have been partners for a long, long time. So anyone that you're in business with, and you have, like there's, and you've made much, with, there should be some sort of loyalty to that. So I get some of these commentators that are really close with people on the PGA tour having a bias.

Right? They did pick a side. And they can't hide. Kevin Kisner, who is now, and I'm not saying he did this, he's a PGA tour member. Like that's his crew. These are his guys that stayed. Now, who knows? Maybe if you're having beers with kids, he doesn't actually care.

But like, if you told me he did or doesn't like love the situation, it's kind of understandable. So we're all products, especially in business, like, who are you in business with? Anyone listening to this that knows people in the booze business knows that it's a really big deal to them when you're with them and you order their competing brand. I were like, no, order the different one. Do you think it's because they really love the taste that much or it's like, no, we're not doing it. business with these motherfuckers. We're trying to take them down. It's part of life.

That's part of, you know, it's part of business. So I think there's a competitive thing there. I do think they get treated differently for sure. You know, you don't have to treat Bryson and Rahm differently because we know him so well. But I'm with you on Carlos O.Gees.

He's clearly a really talented young guy that I don't know that much about. Right? I would love to hear more, but you're just not going to get it. So I don't expect it to come. Big fan. I watch every major with my dad

and thought about the U.S. Open that is really the true test of the year and isn't a birdie fest. Do you think it would be beneficial for the PGA to have a yearly tournament that rotates a top course every year that they intentionally make extremely difficult for the pros? The common golf fan might find it boring,

but people like us who enjoy the carnage would love to see these guys struggle more than once a year at the U.S. Open and it's not always super low scoring like it could be. What are your thoughts? Also, if you're ever in Rochester, New York, just play some golf at Oak Hill. I don't think a lot of the guys would play.

I really don't. I don't think they'd show up. I don't think they'd participate. And you can say they're really soft. But if I told you're Kyle Shanahan or Sean McBay, would you rather play the 85 Bears or the 2001 Ravens? or would you rather play the Jags? What do you think they're going to say?

So I think part of it is people try to avoid difficult situations, mentally breaks you down when you don't have to. And most of these guys now are so rich. They can pick their schedule, the business model, they don't, you know, unlike on the PJ tour, unlike Liv, you don't have to play any tournaments. It was thought forever that it was going to be forced to play these signature events and it's Rory's proven.

Scotty and Rory, both have skipped signature events over the last couple months. And not because they're injured. They're healthy. So I think one's enough. After watching this, and I'm pro carnage to a point until I've like,

I kind of want to be entertained. It's not really entertaining me. So I would say that's not going to happen. Because one, I don't think they would get the buy-in. I think there would be courses they would volunteer. Say, hey, come to my course. course, we will trick this bad boy up and kick the shit out of these guys. And I think the guys just wouldn't show.

I've been thinking about the backlash Liv Golfers have faced and wanted to get your take. Why do you think players jumping from the PGA to Live get so much flack while similar shift to entertainment like big name actors moving from traditional Hollywood studios to streaming platforms seems to go mostly unnoticed or even celebrated? In both cases, there was once only one clear path of success. until a player came along offering top talent more money and flexibility. Yet live golfers are often vilified while actors making similar moves are seen as progressive or smart. Is it a source of the money, the tradition of the sport, or something else entirely?

Well, I think with a movie, right? What show was I watching recently? I was watching Stick, the Owen Wilson Golf Show, they put on Apple TV. that if that was on Netflix, if it's on Apple TV, or if it's on Amazon Prime, if enough people are talking about it, I'm going to end up watching it and liking it. And ultimately, like, I'm not invested into CBS, into Netflix, into Amazon, I don't really care, right? Like, when I went to see a movie, for example, as a kid, I don't go to movies anymore,

it didn't matter to me what studio produced the movie. If the stars were in the movie, like when I was a kid, Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, Tom Hanks, you name it,

Denzel Washington. They drew you to the movie. You didn't give a shit the, as you get older, you know more about like the directors. You're like, oh, it's Scorsesey film. But when you're young,

you don't care. It's like, this guy's just really famous. I want to go watch The Rock. Right? I want to go watch this famous actor in this movie. You don't know who directed it,

who produced it. you don't care. And I think there's an element, like an actor, is an independent contractor slash independent business in himself, a lot like golfers. So like when you have, there are only so many golfers that truly move the needle. And the number's under 10.

And when they play against each other, it helps and it matters. Watching Tiger play against Phil is much better than watching Tiger play against some random, even though it's still Tiger, playing. But when you get Tiger playing against a legendary player, like that part of what made 2019 in the, him winning the master's cool is like Cantley, DJ, Fienow, like there were other famous guys there that we know or knew at the time. Like this is a pretty big deal.

Right. And golf's an individual sport. So you can't separate and live, take, took Bryson and and ROM and look, Hatton is a really good player. I mean, these guys are like writer-cuppers. And when I remove, if there are, obviously there's top 100 players, right? But there's a big difference between like the top, I would say 20-ish.

And if Liv takes four or five of those top 20 guys, it does diminish some of these bigger tournaments, non-majors. And obviously there's a jealousy factor and there's animosity. and a lot of these guys, you know, said no. So there are a lot of different variables. But at this point in time, I think we've seen this sport, just like any individual sport, is not strong enough. And it's just golf's niche operation.

This is not football. But even football couldn't overcome if some league just stole Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hertz, and Justin Herbert. It would hurt the league. So I think there are a lot of factors here. And inevitably, like, they've had conversations and working towards stuff. Who knows when it actually plays out? But, like, it's, I understand why people are mad.

I understood why people took the money. And I understand while this is not a sustainable model for everybody. And inevitably, whether that's in two years, whether that's in 10 years, I don't know when. I'm done even guessing or slash even caring. It's why at first my reaction is like, I don't want to do business with Liv. It's like, well, they got top players. So if I can get access to the top guys, yeah, they can come on the pod. You know, can I get John Rahman?

Can I get Terrell Haddon on the pod? Because I'm like PJ Tours giving me those guys. So I, we're at the point now. It's 2025. So let's attempt to figure it out. I played baseball growing up. Played golf for about two years now. I still gripped the club like a baseball bat.

What is the benefit of the finger lock or different grip styles? Does it help with more consistent swing or do you think it's essential to learn how to hold the club? I've tried every once in a while in interlock and my fingers, but it feels awkward. You'd have to YouTube. I would YouTube like golf coaches talking about the golf grip and the interlock. I don't know the benefits in terms of grip pressure. I would say you definitely have better grip pressure in terms of holding the club than a baseball bat. which is obviously a lot heavier than a golf club.

I've been playing golf. I mean, I was awful at baseball. I quit after Little League. I've been playing golf much longer than I ever played baseball. So the interlock grip is like what it feels like to you with the baseball bat. Gripping a golf club like a baseball bat feels weird to me. The interlock grip, even when I just do it with my hands, standing, you know, sitting on my office chair feels like a normal movement to my hands.

so I can't imagine there be many good players over the last 50 years that did not have an interlocking grip. Could be wrong, but let me say this differently. There's a very, very short list of guys in the history of golf, definitely modern day, that grip it like a baseball bat. Okay, last question. I've recently gotten into golf and have noticed that my first few holes go well. After that, my plans, my play starts to go downhill. Do you notice this with your game?

Is there a solution? As simple as slowing down and taking more time for each shot. Also, you keep track of your handicap. How much have you improved since you started playing? Well, I mean, I've had a handicap for 30 plus years, so it's gone up and down. I would say, yeah. I mean, I would say my downfall of golf is I struggle with 18 holes. I mean, I have a ton of respect for all the guys that play professionally,

collegiantly, because you're playing day after day. So it's not even just 18 holes. It's you might have three straight days of having to focus on every given shot. I shot 83 yesterday. And I finished triple. I finished five over in the last four holes, which is by far the easiest stretch. So like, I mean, if I just, usually I finish even or one under on that stretch. And I finished five over.

It might have been, you know, had a transfusion and then a beer. But I just, I kind of didn't focus on a wed shot. and all of a sudden it kind of spiraled and all of a sudden I'm like, what is going on? And if it wouldn't have been for probably like a 10 foot par putt on 17, it would have been six over on the last four holes. So focus on golf, it's what the game of golf is much closer to the like, I would say kicking in football,

elements of baseball, it's a lot of thinking and a lot of focus. You know, in basketball and football, you just get to play. Obviously in football you have to know the play But if I'm a tight end and I'm running a five-yard out route And I have an inside release If the guy shaded over my right shoulder Right like I just get to play full speed I just get to play right

If I'm the offensive tackle and I have a reach block Like I just fucking go full speed Right if I'm the linebacker and it's going to be third and one Like I know this is probably going to come between the guard and the center Buckle that chin strap and just go you know golf like the harder you try sometimes the worse you play but you do need to try but you also need to focus so it's just it's a mentally it's what makes it just a fun unique challenge that no matter how good you get it keeps you coming back for more no matter how bad you are every good shot kind of keeps you interested um it's one of the only things that kind of you know for us as you get older helps you meet new people get you outside i mean i don't know what else would get me outside for five hours and 105 degrees. Not many things, probably nothing, besides a swimming pool. So I think it's just, it's a special game slash activity that you always are in the,

in the process of trying to figure out. But I would say one of the more difficult aspects of the game of golf is upstairs. And even once you get to, you know, let's say I'm just, let's say you're a 20 handicap. You keep playing, you keep practicing. If you're a decent athlete, it's pretty easy to start kind of working your way from like a 10 to a 15 or excuse me, like 20, 15 down to a 10. Once you get into that single digits, I've hovered between a six and a three handicap for really probably six, seven years now. And I wonder if I've hit a ceiling, not because I don't have the shots. I mean, you can, you can watch me play a two whole stretch where you're like, is this kind of like a plus too handicap. But mentally, I don't really have it. I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm a mental

midget, but I struggle like in life with just, I don't know if it's ADD, but just pure focus where I have a lot of respect to people that just can consistent, you know, scratch and better golfers, if you're not like a college golfer, how do you, how are you able to focus on the shots for five hours? It's hard. It's what makes the, the game difficult, but it's also what makes it fun because even once you start rolling you kind of feel yourself one bad shot will humble your ass fast so we'll end

on that. Congratulations to JJ Spawn, U.S. Open Champion and Oakmont I guess for kicking the shit out of everybody. The volume. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick and guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask. other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you. giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me?

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