The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Rich Paul

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Rich Paul, one of the most influential figures in sports, shares countless stories which include dice games where grandmas' money could’ve been taken. He delves into how he convinced LeBron James to return to Cleveland after the infamous and contentious letter from Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Rich sheds light on the strategic pitch he gave not only to LeBron but also to the key figures in his life: his wife, and his mother. Additionally, the episode explores the everlasting debate of Jordan vs LeBron, offering Rich Paul's unique perspective on the matter. This episode is a rollercoaster of captivating stories, sports strategy, and deep insights into the world of agents, making it a must-listen for all sports fans. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Cliford show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Who are the pretenders?

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Void in Ontario, bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See sportsbook.draftkings.com slash football terms for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. If the Jordan-Lebron debate ever going to end. It ain't going to end, but Brian's a goat. All my life. Then grind in all my life. Sacrifice.

Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life. I be grinding on my life. All my life. Then grind in all my life. Sacrifice.

Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll a dice. That's why. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Sheh. I am your host. Shannon Sharp, I'm also the proprietor of Club Chet, and the guy that's stopping by for conversation on the drink today is one of the most powerful figures in sports. He's a self-made super agent, founder, CEO of Clutch Sports.

His agency represents over 200 athletes in multiple leagues. He's negotiated over $4 billion in contracts. He's an entrepreneur, a businessman, and he's from the east side of Cleveland to the top of the sports world. His newest memoir, Lucky Me, a memoir of Changing the Odds, Rich Paul. How you doing, bro? This is three points? No, don't even start. Go ahead, tell your story.

I'm good now. I've been trying to get on club, shay, and you skip over everybody but your dog. But it's cool. Don't worry about it. You know what? You know, I got my own brand of cognac. I sent you about out. I know you got it.

It's on my shelf, yeah. You didn't let me an investment, but it's fine. Don't worry about it. To come, to get to where you got, to come to where you came from, and do it in the class and the manner in which you've done it and to help those coming behind you to show them i did it you can do it cheers bro cheers thank you let's let's start with the book look at me a memoir of changing the odds why was it important for you to write this book i think it's important because we need as many positives examples positive examples as we as we can and oftentimes it doesn't have

to come in a figure. It can come in a storyline, a shared experience. And so this book is lucky me, but it's really about us. This is a gift for me to you in terms of whether you're youth, where you came from a certain community. I think everyone aligns with the people that have been that has been reaching out and the comments that I've been getting from all people. I was in the gym this morning. The man came into me, he had to be 70 years old. And he just was, you know, he was just floored by the story. And he was just like, man, you know, just more blessings to you. I think that impact is really helpful, right? And for me, I didn't know how much I actually needed to write the book. I was withholding that trauma that I went through for all those years.

And I didn't find out that I needed to release that until I was writing the book. Right. And so for me, it's not necessarily about sales, et cetera. If I can help one person change the perspective that I started here, I'm going through this right now. But I see an example of somebody who also went through some of the same things. And I don't have to finish here. I don't have to give up hope on my life. I don't have to give up hope on an opportunity that lies ahead.

I can take little bits and things of what I do have. Not so much focus on what I don't have, but let me focus on what I do have and make the best of that. Just to get to the next step in life is what I deemed important today. And so I'm ecstatic for you to get through it all. I know you touched on some of it. But, you know, it was, I haven't been able to get through the whole book, bits and pieces, obviously, because it's just such an emotional roll of

poster for me, but as we were writing it and as I was, you know, just going... You're telling it. Telling it. I did the audio book, which was extremely emotional. And at the end, I'm not going to spoil it for you, but at the end, I, you know, I do something for my mother. Right. And it's tough. In the book, you mentioned that your dad owned a corner store, convenience store.

Yeah. You worked in the store. So by that stretch of the imagination, you kind of, you kind of get on rich. I mean, you got a little convenience store. You know. Well, we felt like that, but that wasn't the truth. Okay. Because you got to remember.

So the store was my, was my Savannah State. Okay. Okay. That's where I got my curriculum. That's where it was at. Right. But I also just, I learned math. I learned customer service.

I learned marketing. But the most important thing I learned was people. Right. Because there's all walks of life coming into that store. And, you know, through the course. throughout the course of their day, their energy is different. You know, so you had to be able to balance certain things. I had to learn this at a very young age.

Everybody's not happy. Everybody's not saying somebody had a bad day. Yeah, and they probably became your problems. Right. I had to watch my father navigate his way through this to make margins on boston baked beans and cigarettes and beer and wine. That's not, those aren't big margins. You understand what I'm saying?

But yet and still, his approach to open. that store every morning, how he treated people, whether you had a dollar or a hundred dollars, was important. And he explained to me, and there's a chapter in his book, where we talk about just having the empathy for others, where he taught me that this is your family. These customers, these consumers, it's important to take care of them, right, and to treat them a certain way. it really

affected my life and really shaped me, right? Because I would learn stuff from a textbook, but my education came from that store. Right. I think the thing is, rich, is that empathy, I think empathy is being able to

divorce your ego, set aside your ego and see yourself as someone else. And I think when people would like circumstances, it's easier to have empathy. Because your dad saw himself, he's like, I ain't really rich. So he saw himself and some of these

poor, less fortunate, less having than others. And so he could empathize. So was he that type of store owner that, hey, Mr. Paul, how you doing today? Hey, hey, Savannah, hey, Ricky, hey, Johnny. Ms. Sharp sent you down there,

little Shannon. Yeah. You don't got a dime in your pocket, but you need bread. Right. You need soap. Right. You toilet paper. Well, Ms. Sharp sent you. That's all. he needed to know miss sharp's sitting because she didn't already call before you got there right you understand so now when you get there and then you may be standing there looking and he may say what you want boy you said man can i have some of the uh cherry clans go yeah go ahead

take you know and so that that exchange now you become shannon now you shannon from such and such now here come little rich you know what i'm saying how my dad treated shannon miss sharp's grandma son at that moment and now you're Shannon you get them saying mm-hmm save my life in a lot of ways and people don't understand that and so my dad would always tell me you wants a man twice a child and I never understood what that meant and then he explained it to me right around the age on the cover of that book and he said as you climb as you born a child you grow to become a man as you get older you start to become a child again and how you treated people

as a man will have a direct correlation of how they treat you as you become a child again and that always stuck with me and I come from a place where your money didn't matter that don't matter who you are at your core is what matter and so despite my successes

I always carried that with me even into the representation business, which you and I both know as a former player, that don't exist, right? And so I brought that with me. And it's extremely important. And I live with that every day. I read in the book, and it seems to me one of your proudest moments is that the family was struggling. You didn't have a whole lot to eat. And you go ask your uncle, he gives you $20 out of the register. And you go, and you go and hit a lick. And you were able to go buy bread. You were able to go. You were able to by a deli meat, we call it lunch meat in the South.

We call lunch me too. Y'all call lunch me, yeah. Okay, okay. I'm trying from Jonesboro, Arkansas. Okay, okay, so we call it D. We call it, we call it lunche. So you were able to buy some things. And at that moment, it dawned on you like, man, it made you feel good.

I can provide. Was that the moment that you saw, because we all have a purpose. Yeah. Same thing happened to me. When I would get paid, I would buy, I would, you'd give my grandmother $10 or the $40 that I made. It wasn't much, but it helped by something. Absolutely.

From that moment on, I've been a provider my entire life. My job is to provide for my family. Was that the moment that you said, you know what? Rich Paul was a provider. Yeah, because me, my brother and sister, I got two older sisters and an older brother. I'm the youngest. But my older sister, Brandy, and my older brother, Miko, we lived together. So my mom wasn't there.

Okay. My dad had his family. And so there was plenty of times where it was no one there. So we had to do things as a collective. How much older are they than you? My brother's three years older and my sister five years old. But you know, seven and twelve and that's, I mean, you know, that's a big jump. Yeah.

In terms of responsibility, right? Yes, yes. And so I watched my sister babysit other people's kids. kids and then, you know, take her money and I would go to the mall with her. That's how I learned fashion. My sister taught me about clothes. She made that bug bite me for clothes and all that. And then I watched my brother do what he had to do. And so I had to play my part. And so when I was able to do so, like you're saying, whether it was that, whether it was shooting jump shots and not having no money and had to make it to win and going to get the, you know, I used to buy the

juice, the lunch meat, because my mother taught us how to do this a couple pound of lunch meat, the juice, and then we would get the bread or whatnot. You said you're going through the juice too quick, so I had to get Kool-A. Exactly. I had to get the Kulae, because it was going too fast. We had to stretch it, you know, and so, but when I, when I, I felt, like you said, I felt good as a young kid. And I'm going to, I went to a school called Upsen in Euclid, Ohio. Okay. I'm in the fourth grade. And I remember this adding to the cause in the fourth grade.

And I didn't have nobody to say to you, you better be going to school. It was a decision that I had to make that I wanted to make at a very young age and so did my siblings. But there was also times where I used to walk the parking lot. It was a place called the Americana. My dad had a little, we called the Honeycomb Hideout.

He had a little Honeycomb Hideout that we had to take over, right? Because we had nowhere to go. But I would walk and pick up a quarter of. quarter here, a dime here, and there was a little bar next to another apartment complex called the Horizon House back then. It was a little bar in grill, and they would have these cheeseburgers, and as a kid, you can go in there before a certain time and order from the grill. And that's how I would eat some days, you know, and so all those things don't shape me. I don't look at that as a negative thing, and it was a struggle, but I didn't know it as much, right? And I didn't know it as much,

because i didn't know anything per se different and with and because everybody around you was probably going through the same thing you didn't think you were any different because everybody else was struggling because you know what separates you at that point you could be struggling and have a new pair of shoes on yeah right and it elevated you so those things i always had things right but what i didn't have is that family infrastructure that consistency in the household I didn't have that. But what I was able to control, I control. Just because I didn't have X didn't mean I was going to sit in class and be a dummy.

I wasn't going to follow the class clowns. I wasn't going to do abacadabber on my test just because. You know, I wanted to be in school. I didn't want to miss school. And that showed a lot about me as a person. The things didn't make me. That was, you know, because I can make shift. My sister taught me how to make shift things where you can go to,

T.J. Max and get a Ralph Lauren. It may be a little defective. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're just the same. And so I learned those little things to feel good. Because, you know, when you don't have much, especially back then, the littlest things elevated you. Make the biggest difference, right? And so that was important to me. But I also knew then the responsibility of right from wrong at that, at that point. And that's what I was about to get to. You said, okay, I'm a hustler. I rolled dice, trying to hit a leg, shoot pool, I can shoot jumpers.

Car, jump, casino, race, whatever you wanted to do, bet. You didn't want to do it, but you didn't go. A lot of times kids like, well, I didn't really have a choice, so I had to go this route. You never. Not then. When I made those choices, I understood because I had the influence in front of me. So I sat on the porch until it's, when I jumped off the porch, it was because of survival. Because, you know, when you have an entrepreneurial spirit in the hood, what's your options?

Right. What's your real opportunity? Right. The lady who took that picture, we called her pitcher lady. She would, that was her, that was her hustle. She would had a Polaroid and she would come on the block and she turned our best outfits into pictures. That was art. She could have been Dina Lawson.

That was art. She could have been, that could have been Instagram. But nobody's coming. Nobody recognized what she was doing and recognized the business of it and say to her, you ever thought about this and let me invest in that. Everybody on the right of me had a hustle. Everybody on the left of me had a hustle. The person in front of me had a hustle and the person in backing me had a hustle.

There's no careers. There's no great job. There's no equity position. You get what I'm saying? There's no VC. There's none of that. I didn't even know what that meant You understand what I'm saying and so Understanding what it means today is different, but when I look back on it The only difference between me or someone like me and anybody else in the world that has been an innovator a genius You know created something and built it and grew it

they had the opportunity, the option, and someone willing to support. We don't have that. So we had to turn to what was placed in our environment. Now, some people did it, and they did it with malice, they did it with whatever. That was never me. My intent was always, I always tried to find the right even within doing wrong. That makes sense. Yeah.

What's the most money you like rolling? You say you like rolling dice. So what's the most you made? in a day in the most of you've lost. When? What age? Because see, did you have to understand? So what age did you start rolling dice?

About seven or eight. See, my dad taught me, the reason why my dad taught me how to, he taught me and my siblings how to gamble, shoot dice and play cards. It wasn't from a gambling perspective. It was from a survival perspective because he said to us, these are the tools. These are the tools. These are the tools that would allow you to get. from here to here, if you get laid off on this job,

to get to the next job, you're going to need some time. To get by, here's some things you can do to get by. I turned it into my job, you know, because I got infatuated with it, you know, and so. Because the quick, easy money, because you see, because, hey, every role, money's moving. And that's the thing. And so my dad would take me to the family union. and, you know, once the drink... You're in the tuggles and the uncles are?

Oh, come on, rich. Oh, I beat grandma out the money. It don't matter. Oh, come on, real. You beat granny, you took granny money money. You don't grant to money. She ain't got me like $5. I beat your grandma out of the money.

My grandma, the money. Whoever got the money, I want it, I'm beating about the money. You only have to worry about that. Because that's what it was. Right. There's no, when you start gambling, there is no age limit. If you got money, you in play. You in play.

Soon you put that money and they know, oh, I didn't mean to do that. Because, you know, and when we was back in the day, we used to catch the dog. Oh, yeah, yeah. We had to cut that out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, somebody doing this.

They catch it 15 times of you. You seen what I did? I did like this. Man, what did you do? Man, what did you talk about? So that's universal, man. That'd be on for the moon giant. That's we, so when I was young,

we totally cut catching out. Okay. There's no more catching. Right. Now, that does a number of things. It opens a game up. It's speed. it up but then you got the slicksters comedy right so now you got to match

that sickness so now it's it's it's it was you know it's a free free for all so we had spots right and so the best way for me to equated DuPont was like Madison Square Garden or the Staples Center that's where all the everybody was those is the big game that was the big game the average role in that game was probably about thousand dollars row wow you know and it's And it's the who's who, you know, everywhere. So as a young kid, being allowed to be in that game, you know, that's like a rookie starting. It's like a rookie making all NBA team.

But you know, Rich, when that kind of money is involved, people got them things on them. They got them switches. Well, they ain't had that back deal. But that was necessary. But, you know, that's- Because you know money. Money does say to people, especially if I lose a big hit. But I'm going to tell you something about these specific areas.

And every now and then you had issues, but not like it would be today. Okay. There was a lot more respect. Right. But back then, it was just different because, again, when I talk about the who's who, there ain't even no conversation. That's no go, period. You knew that.

That was a, you know, it was a respect and a rapport. But at the same time, you know, it was things that got a little chippy here and there, But it started with these. Oh, yeah, yeah, you got knuckle up. Yeah, you wasn't doing all that. Yeah, you weren't, you wouldn't, you were cleaning up. But again, but we had, so we had the hut. The hut wasn't, the hut was like, you know, the hut was like the United Center, right?

And then Forest Hill Poo, see at Forest Hill Poole, that was again, that's like the staple center or the, or, or the garden. Because that's where all, everybody come there, man, they and they diomante with the vows on them, they Porsche's. They got the gator sandals on. with a fresh pedicure and they pop a dime pair this was I come up on so as a kid I'm seeing guys pop the trunk but they got a case of Don Perry on so as we get a hold of when we get 14 15 I didn't even drink but that's what we wanted okay they my friend cases a moat cases of Dom you know going to Blue Point for dinner and stuff like that as young men because we because we're hanging with

45 year old men that's teaching us this and so I was never really allowed to be a child per se, but the game was given. That's why the seat I sit in today, I got to get a game because it was given to me. Been into a half a dice game recently. No. You don't have a dice game because, you know, some players like to play cards and, you know, with their buddies.

Now, you can't have outside because they're going to try to sleep. They're going to bring the crooked dice up into the loaded dice. That, they'll roll the 10 or 4 all day. I would love to in an environment. You know, you like to be in the barbershop. You like to be, you know, we just love that part of it. But it's just too dangerous. I won't do it today.

But amongst friends, if they were, but now all my friends, they need their back. Yeah. So you can't be, you know, you can't be, you can't be shooting that for eight hours. Because, you know, they need, they got to go out and score 45. You know, you can't do that. So it's a different dynamic now. Right. But they love it.

Right. You know, but again, but just the house, the gambling house, the characters within the gambling, house, the teachings within the gambling house. See, we had to learn by losing. That's how we learn. By losing. These kids today, they want to skip every step in the process and they don't work. They just win, win, win.

No, it don't work. They want to take it. Eventually, yeah, for sure. You were raised by your grandparents and you said that when you, in the book, I read in the book where you went to live with your grandparents, your granny was really strict. Most grandparents are. Detailed.

You were like all the kind of like, Like, damn. What was the first time I ever had my own room? When I moved my grandma, Johnny May, it was the first time I ever had my own room. You know, and I'm looking around, I can't believe it. But it's me, is Johnny, my grandma Johnny May, my grandma Cammy and my Uncle Charlie. Now, they are, these are on my father's side. My great grandmother, all she ate was Wrigley's gone.

So when I would come home from my dad's store, She ate spearmint, not big red, because it was too hot. Spearmint, doublement, and juicy fruit. Because it wasn't no winter fresh then yet. And my grandma Paul, the only thing she ate was peanut M&Ms. My uncle Charlie went to see his girlfriend one day after week. He leave at 10 o'clock on Tuesday. He'd come back 11 o'clock on Wednesday.

He wear a white shirt, hat, Stacey, You could eat off his car. It was so clean, but he was so detailed. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin. Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers, got the ball like you go through a training camp with that Isaiah you figure it out real quick get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball so listen to point game on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts 10 o'clock don't matter what the game the game could be in overtime when that clock strike 10 o'clock if you sitting outside my house you can see him going up the stairs to get in the bed this is what so i know i don't use alarm clock right now to this day because my grandmother get up every day at 3.30 in the morning. Babe, her mom, then she go downstairs and, you know, do what she needs to do. She washing and she cooking

at the same time. Then I get up at 5.30. My dad's picking me up. We opened the store at six. That was my routine every morning. Wow. You said your mom struggled with addiction when you were a child. What impact did that have on you, not having her the mother, we know what the mother brings to the family, the matriarch? What did that do to a young rich? Loss of emotion and vulnerability, you know, because in order for you to love something, you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable. I had to wipe that out because it affected me in a way in which I love my mother, loved my mother when she was around

life for the party you could smell the food coming from down the hall you would have been you would have been so overweight oh my God cakes pies chocolate pie cherry pie

peach cobbler banana pudding I mean it was the work it was unbelievable unbelievable but you know I didn't have that I'm only getting that for two three days at a time I may

I may be without it for six months, six, seven months at a time. And I just had to understand, and the way my dad put it to me was a sickness. So I had to just understand it and move on. But it was tough, you know, because parent-teacher conference, I look in the stands, I met my games, homecoming, you know, whatever the case may be, she ain't there, but I'm always, I was always in somebody else's car with their parents or at somebody else's house with their parents, you know, holidays and things like that. It was always that. And so it could break you, but it didn't break me. Mentally, I was able to overcome it, and you would never know. You would never know what I was with out. What you're

dealing with? Oh, you would never, you would never know that because I didn't wear it on my jacket. You said earlier that some of the things that when you started writing this book, you didn't realize how much trauma you had endured. And as you started to write, it became very emotional. And in the audiobooks, it really, audio portion, it really started. Was this the main reason why? Yeah. Because you know, you relive in those moments. You get extremely emotional. You know, I lost both of my parents at such a young age, 19 and 36.

Lost my mom at 36, lost my dad at 19. And, you know, just relive in those moments, man. It's tough. And I know what kids go through today. Because there's, you could be, my dad wasn't present, but he was present. Right? He didn't live in me, but he was present. My mother wasn't there, but I had so much respect for it.

At the time I did get to spend with her, I spent it. It was never a place of, I never came from a place of anger. Yeah, yeah. I never came from a place of disrespect. And by the way, even if I wanted to come from a place of disrespect, my mother could throw down. So she ain't going for that anyway. You're going to get your lip flat, for sure. So, but I never even came like that.

You understand what I'm saying? And so, but when I was writing the book, and especially when I was doing the audiobook, when I got to the end where I write this message to my mom, it really choked, you only get one mom, man. You get one mother. And I try to explain that to my clients today. The way our industry is today, sometimes it becomes a joust, a mom. amongst families. And it's very important for everyone within the family

to have perspective and to have clarity. The agent for many years had a black cloud over that title that was considered somebody that was shady or somebody that was, it was a gray area there. I wanted to change that. The fortunate thing is I have been able to change it somewhat. The unfortunate thing has been, and we talked about it, is that you still wake up every day. I can't change the color of my skin.

And as tough as it is, with the industry, we make it even tougher on our sales because there's still a competition. And don't get me wrong, when you're going out and recruiting clients, yeah, you're competitive. So, but there's a. But you're not speaking ill. You're not speaking negative on someone. No, and that's the thing. To the best man, the best man woman win the job. So I'm not, but I'm not going to say, oh, this person is this, that person is that,

to try to conjure up so the athlete feels some type of weight. Yeah, yeah. Hey, this is what I can provide. This is what I believe I'm the best man for the job, my agency, and I think we can do the best job for you moving forward. And that's the point I was making when we talked about it when we did first take. the point I was making was, of course, I didn't expect white agents to try to help me. That wasn't even an expectation. Right.

Right. But coming from where I came from, the gang was given by the older guys. Right. Whether you decided to digest it or not was on you. But I can't sit here and say that my coat tail wasn't pulled to certain things to help me get through the day, get through the month. get through the year of survival. So that's all I know. I only, I got to give that back.

When I started, that wasn't the case. And I seen people online like, oh, well, you didn't say that. I'm like, you're missing the point. Right. Did you reach out? Did you, I mean, I don't need to call any names, but did you reach out to any age? When I first started the business, I talked to everybody. Because I wanted to understand why are things the way they are.

And what I came to understand is, ain't no different in the block. every man for themselves that's as that's that that that has been placed upon us from a thought process but what happens is when you create those that psychology it stunts to growth

it stunts to communication habits it stunts I should have came up under something that was already built right that's normally how it happens agency they normally come up in a big agency and then they branch out on their own you started differently

you started out on your own you started differently You started out on your own. I started differently. I started at a place, but I don't even count that because there was no education there. There was no plan for me to become who I am today. But what I started to realize is, oh, you know, we work in a small industry, so things get back. Yes. The only difference is the kid on the cover of that book in that environment, when things get back, oh.

We did have a lot. We pull it up. You get them saying in this industry when someone goes and and speaks about you in a very derogatory way for two hours, ain't that much to say. Now the business is the business. Competition is in all business. But when you make it personal, that's a different dynamic. Like Primeston, then you made it personal. Right. But we couldn't do that. It's not in me. I couldn't be trying to talk to a girl. and mention Shannon we don't that's no go where I'm from we don't we don't do that and so but I'm in this game where I left a game that was being played with no rules and no rest but you understand that yes but in the corporate setting it really ain't know there's rules but the rest are assigned

to the establishment in a lot of cases I had to learn that I had to learn narratives I had to learn how media works. I had to learn all these things. And I also had to learn that the smiles is not really the smiles. But I was used to that because I came from that. So I was prepared thoroughly for the position I'm in today.

It's just that it's hard for me to respect it. That's all. Football season is well underway. The baseball postseason is here. New basketball and hockey seasons are punters. While we love watching our favorite teams on television, there's nothing better than being at the game live and in person. And I think I know

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That's Shay-S-H-A-Y for $20 off. Download game time today. Last-minute ticket price, lowest price, guaranteed. You love sports coming up. Your team. Loved it, yeah. Basketball. Your team won the state title.

How good of an athlete was Rich Paul? On a scale of 1 to 10, depending on the year. If you're talking about ages, 7. If you're talking about age 7, let me tell you, age 7 to 12, I was about an 8. Because everybody is just kind of saying. Yeah, about the same height, same age, same age, same 5. Yeah, I got the tape, go look at the tape. I got the tape, pull the tape.

We won the, we won the city championship. I won MVP. I did the interview. I thanked my teammates, everything. Okay. But then once I got into high school, it changed. But it also changed because I didn't put it into work. See, I'm down at the hut.

They gambling. I'm missing something. You know, we got a big dice game. And we got a summer league game at Euclid. I show up at halftime. That ain't right, man. But, you know, I'm down 4,500, man. I got to get back.

You got to get back. Got to get my leg back, go. I had to. But so I just took the bitter with the suite. I understood it, right? But as I talk about this, Me not starting on my team didn't discourage me from being a part of the team. I was a part of a great team.

I had great teammates and I was on the second team every day in practice and we made the first team work. Sometimes we would beat the first team. Sometimes I would get in the game. Sometimes I wouldn't get in the game at all. Right? And I look up in the stands. I sit my brother there some died. Nobody in my family really cared about sport.

would be there sometimes. My dude would be there off the block sometimes and support. But it was okay because I understood my position. I understood my role. When we leave out this locker room, now it's my turn to be the man. And that's all. Fair Shane, there never been no robbery. You know what I'm saying? It's all good. So you head after the game, you headed back down to the block, go shake the thing. Oh, we headed somewhere. You know, I may have some. If my dudes came to the game, they didn't come to the game for the game. They came to the game because where we're going after the game.

Yeah, and we would go down certain places, but I respected my teammates. You know, we, and I enjoyed it. I played against Mike Gansy, who's a, he's GM of the cast now. Okay. A lot of guys, we played against Steve Logan, Sam Clancy. A lot of guys that was top guys. We loved it. We loved the game.

We played same bit, same day. He played football, right? His dad. Okay. His son played for USC. Okay. They all played for a team called St. Edwards. I went to Cleveland, Benedictine.

But Glenville was my neighborhood high school. That was pretty good. Techian Jr. Yeah. But on the basketball side was pretty good. We played with St. Vincent, St. Mary, every year. We had a big time schedule. I won the, and I'm really close with a family in Columbus,

the Shottes team family in Columbus. And we, I won the last state championship in St. Johns. and the first state championship in the shot on Ohio State's campus. You know, and so when you plan in it, you don't know, and then you meet the family whose name is on the arena. You know, all these things, just how life takes you. But I was a pretty good athlete. I will say this.

And laugh if you want to. I'm one of the best shooters, though, even still to this day. And I take my chance. If I was in the one of 450, I'd be at the top. These guys like me, Steph, Clay. Clay who? Thompson. Who else is going to be?

Dang. This man talk about he shoot like. If you're just talking shooting, this is the class I'm in. Y'all going down to the gun range? That kind of shooting? No, man. Or you're talking about a basketball into a rim?

Trey. There is Garland. I'm just talking about guys in the league right now that shoot the three really well. Oh, I'm saying. I'll be amongst the time. See, we're having a good old interview. I mean,

was going well. I really, the story that you was telling because it's very similar to mine. But I'm talking about in terms of, I didn't say dribbling, playing, I said shooting. That's all I said. The mere fact that you put in yourself, Rich you're talking legends, you got to throw Reggie in there and Ray.

It's all of us is that used up in there. My point is you're putting yourself in that group. I ain't got no problem with the name you mentioned. It's just the fact that your name is in there. In terms of shooting. I don't care what it is. Well, yeah. I feel good about it. I feel good about it. And I ain't drinking, I'm not drinking no yak. I'm drinking water. No, you should have drank

some more because you used to be saying something like that. I need a reason why you said some bullshit like that. I'm sorry. Why were you saying some pooties is like that? Well, I'm just telling the truth. I put it this way. You know, when two men got discrepancy, what's the next word? Ben it. Exactly. That's all. That's all. Okay. It's the only way for you to find out. I want you to tell the people what you told us before we came on there. I say, You play sports. You're like, you know, we're getting to that. So, yeah, I'm football.

I can run some routes. Go ahead. Yeah, that was a good route runner. I played every position, man. But I'm not saying I was the best because I was, I'm the first to say to you. No, I was not the best on my team. I wasn't the best on any team I ever played on. But you know what I was great at?

Leadership. Having perspective. Okay. Right? Corraling the guys, helping them understand the moment. what needs to take place my practice habits I'm leading the team

when we run in the laps I can respect that because I was expecting you to come out here and say yeah man I could have if I had grew like another five or six years I probably could have played in their favor no one thing about it you got

we don't do no bunch of lines we don't do no bunch of line we don't do no bunch of lines ain't need to be getting on you talking about no line because all somebody's going to do is pull up the tape so I don't need to do none of that no right so

college, high school, you did what you, like you said, you weren't no dummy. No. Pretty smart. Very smart. Attentive in class, make sure I got my homework. Because at that point in time in high school, did you know kind of the direction that you wanted to go in when you became an adult? Not at all, not at all. I thought I was going to be a pro until my father told me I wasn't in the ninth grade. I read in the book that you said you used to like drinking coffee. I did. And then your dad told you that coffee started your growth and you stopped. But you might have stopped a little bit too late because I was drinking black, drinking the coffee black.

Yeah. But you later realized that coffee doesn't start the growth. I didn't know what to believe. No, they could sell, you know, I could sell fried ice cream back then, anything. I didn't know what to believe. And you started drinking tea. So you're in high school, you graduate high school. What's Rich Paul's next plan? I wanted to go to college. I did go to college. I went to college and my dad was still alive. My dad stressed education so much. I just wanted to further my education. Nobody in my family went to college, right? So I went to college.

And I did everything on my own. I remember picking the college I wanted to go to, going to guidance counselor, you know, going to my orientation, right? And seeing the dorm and all that. I had no, my dad or mom didn't come on this stuff with me. I did it by myself, you know. But unfortunately, my freshman,

year of college around September, my dad got sick. My dad got really sick. And I remember the conversation I had my dad because I was talking to him about some books I had to order. And he had this attitude about it. My dad never had an attitude about education. But he didn't tell me anything. My Uncle Joe had to tell me what was going on, you know, my sister. And so, and it just, it just happened so fast. And so I had to transfer to be closer to my sister. my dad and I would that's when I went to Cleveland State and then maybe some days I'll be driving the class and I would just turn around and go sit with my dad because I didn't know how long I was gonna have with them right you know and that was a tough tough thing for me how did you

balance that knowing that death is on the horizon for you yeah while all the wild but I still got to live yeah my dad used to always tell us though I ain't gonna be here forever he used to tell us that. My dad didn't shoot-to-coat anything because life didn't shoot-to-cote anything. Right. And the store was on that corner, and when you stepped out on that corner, you was a part of the environment. And so at that time, anything could happen, right? And so that's how he prepared us. And so it was tough, though. It was tough, but I got through it, but it was, it was tough. But I, I'm glad I did spend those days. And some days, I was just going, just sitting next to his bedside, you know.

You say, I read where you said that the streets was your Moore House, was your Harvard, that the knowledge that you got to deal with people in business on a corporate level on a higher side now, all that information you didn't get from books. You didn't get from a college. You got it from the streets and dealing with people in the streets, dealing with people in your dad's convenience. Yes. Yeah.

Because to me, and that's why when they brought up the Rich Paul Rue, I didn't think that made any sense, especially working in the business that I'd be working with in the service industry. You don't learn how to service people from a textbook. You learn that through experience. And when I was out there, that was my experience. At my dad's store, dealing with people

seeing the pitfalls and challenges, and I realized something. You can learn so much from someone telling you their failures. Because everybody wants to know what should they be done. Successful. But you also should want to know what you shouldn't be doing. It's so much to learn from what not to do. And so that's how we learned.

We had to learn the silhouettes of people. We had to learn cars. We had to learn how to just diffuse situations. Like I talk about my friend Cactus in the book. And it was a situation. This is my friend. He lived on the next street. Edmonton, Woodside.

And I told the story not because today, Currently he's incarcerated, but when he get out, not because we won't be friends, because we were friends. But as a young black man, you don't always understand how to communicate, right? You don't want to be judged because you always are being what? Judge. And so what that does is it causes you to act even despite you not wanting to act a certain way. So I tell this story about what took place with us. And I had to understand the position that he was in and I had to pivot.

So therefore, he wouldn't be in a position where he had to act even on something he probably would have regret it down the road. Right. And so that's all I was the reason I told that because it's the same way today. Everybody's committing things and act because. they don't want to be judged or they don't they don't know how to communicate something to someone else and so you know a two minute decision cost them 20 years they like right and we it's too much of that how did you decide to go into the line of work that you're currently in it was organic i love sports i love fashion i love people um i played the game i watched every game i played every sport did taekwondo boxed

gymnastics, football, baseball, basketball. And all my friends played sports for the most part. And then I had another half that, you know, we was kind of split down the middle. And so as I, you know, as I was getting into the Jersey business, I'm selling the jerseys, again, it's just sports and culture is all the same. It's like it intersects. And I've never planned on being an agent. but I always had this ability to connect with people. I knew the game.

I know the game. I could talk football. I could talk basketball. I could talk baseball, right? And so as I started to see what representation looked like, I started to understand that it was, in a lot of ways, it was surface deep. There was a perception that the agent should look like this. And then from that perception, there was an opportunity given,

to others, right? And so now that game was started to be played. Your agent has to look like this. There was a narrative that he had to be a lawyer or whatnot. And then on the flip side, they have a relationship with the shoe company or whatever. And the shoe company understands the players coming in. They know what they have and what they don't have. They're giving that information to one or two or three.

individuals only and then here they come and because of because of the perception of them and how they looked the families deemed them to be what educated better position smart all these different things and then when I got behind the walls I'm like well that's fools go because they don't know our culture for sure So when I'm doing a shoe deal, if I have a signature athlete, there's some things that you need to know to better position that person. There's a reason why certain decisions was made for certain athletes because that representation didn't know cool. Right. Right? Didn't know culture.

But we tend to skip over that and not value certain expertise because it's not packaged a certain way. See, this is packaged. When you look at the best brands in the world, their packaging matters, right? Our packaging automatically was discredited from day one. So now I had to work around that. Right. So started clutch. You says, okay, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to start my own company. Yeah. What was your thought process behind starting your own company? I was so motivated. I was in a position where, you know, you could just feel, was somebody trying to play you. And I wasn't that type of guy. I was never dependent of somebody.

I was always, I knew how to get on my own. Yeah. And so there wasn't no challenge for me to lead the agency I left. And I wasn't really like, you know, they would tell you, oh, it was planned or we positioning like that. That's all bullshit. No, it wasn't. It wasn't planned. I had an issue.

The issue wasn't being resolved. And oftentimes when someone, quote-unquote, feels like they... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered. with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Todd Ramos. I'm Tom Bo.

On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Polisic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team.

And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. gave you an opportunity, you should forever be indebted to them.

But I'm like, no, you can, I mean, I understand the idea of the opportunity, but it didn't, it came because I was somebody's friend. We had to, we have to learn to start being a slave to loyalty. Yeah. And I'm like, somebody gives us an opportunity and we feel forever indebted, although things are not going the way that they should. Nah, I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah.

But my thing is, you know, the opportunity of what entirely? You know what I'm saying? Because at the end of the day, yeah, there's an opportunity, but what's the plan? Right. There was no plan. The plan is just all good as long as somebody else's hat. I never want to be in that position. And it was all good.

I played the role. I played the role. And I was doing my thing. Right. I started to get talent. I started beating guys out. And I wasn't even a registered agent and I was beating guys out. Right? And they didn't know how.

Nobody really knew how, but I had a connectivity. Right. And so when I, when I seen that I can actually do it, I decided, and once I seen I can actually do it, and this didn't feel good and I'm seeing what's transpiring, I'm like I'm out. I, it wasn't, it wasn't a plan. It was May conversation.

Shit. By August, my mind was already made up. Regardless. And I didn't care if LeBron stayed. I didn't care who stayed. I was out. And I had the mentality that I was going to build it. It just so happened that they left with me.

And I would appreciate him of that. You know what you know. I'm not breaking. I'm not interrupting your normally scheduled programming to break news to you. You know what's being said. You know what was said. He got LeBron James. So it wasn't that he was good at what he does, is that he just had the best player in the NBA and everybody says, okay, if he's bad, LeBron trust him, I'll trust him also. Well, that's BS because it actually goes the other way in a lot of cases. It's more challenging, at least for me. Now, when they have it or have

him or if you got this person, it's a different dynamic. You can use your client list and it's to your benefit. It's to your benefit. But when it's me and it's my client list or I got the stars, it's a detriment that comes with that. People don't understand. It's like, oh, you had LeBron and it should be easy. No, it's actually harder. You know why it's harder? Because we come from a place where there can only be one king. Our environment teaches us. to always be competitive. There's no collaboration. There's no communication.

You know, there's no connectivity that's there. There's no compounding of anything. So it actually becomes harder. And by the way, I've lost clients because of this. The person next to them feel like they're in competition with me. So, no, I'm not even in that space. You're not in competition with me. The position I'm in right now, I could do anything for anybody

within reason. And I want to do that. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, uh, uh, competing with other agents. I'm not competing with young, up and coming people that, that have a, a guy that want to be positioned and empowered. I want to empower you. But they're putting out there, oh, well, you know, rich angle and do this, rich, see for yourself. I don't need the peanut gallery. See for yourself. And if there's a conversation, it makes sense. And if it make business since then we can do business but at the end of the day it's it's actually it works for me it works against you it works against you in a lot of ways now in some cases it does work for you don't get me wrong there when you when you have the talent that we have at our company

you can't deny that but yet and still unfortunately we have to break down site the psychological barriers of, oh, I learn, I come from it. When I was young selling candy and pop and beer and wine in my dad's store, some people chose not to patronize with us because in their mind, if I spend my money with rich, then little rich get to Jordans. And I don't have them. So God was already preparing me for this position I'm in now. So when I see it, it don't even bother me.

When did you remember? Did you know who LeBron was when you first met it? And what was your first impressions when you did meet it? Yeah, our high schools played against each other every year. Yeah. So myself and Maverick, we played against each other every year. It's mandatory. Football, basketball, baseball, our high school played against each other every year.

Brom wasn't yet, Brian. They had won before, but he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. But I knew every kid. I know every kid because I go to games, all that. And my impression was, he asked me a question about what I had on. My energy was nice enough, not because I was looking for something in return. That's another thing. Our environment teaches us, if you give me something, I got to get something in return.

That's why we never build anything. That's why everyone wants to be the talent, because the talent brings forth fortunate fame. No one ever thinks about building or no one ever thinks about playing a different role within the ecosystem, a physical therapist, you know, analysts, GM, etc. There's a lot of roles to play within the ecosystem, but that's not the popular role to play. And that's why everybody can't be Shatton Sharp, just can't.

Everybody ain't going to wear that yellow jacket and go up and can't. But my jacket could be a different, it may not be yellow, but that's for the Hall of Fame. But I got a jacket on. Right. You understand what I'm saying? So that's always been my mentality. Why is it such a problem is that, you know,

Phil Knight, Jeff, Bezos, you look at some of the greatest men in the world, wealthiest men in the world, women, have had someone believe in them. But it seems to be a problem that LeBron, I don't know, and you don't have to address this, I don't know if he invested money, but I know he invested an opportunity. Yeah, LeBron never gave me a dime. That was the, that's what they wanted to put out there. Right.

But they didn't say that about Jeff Schwartz. They didn't say it about Arndteller. They didn't say it about Mark Bartolstein. They didn't say those things. Right. Right? What do you think happened with them? They just, what do you think happened? You get what I'm saying?

And I respect those guys. But that's not what's being said. Right. You get what I'm saying? When they have the top player, that player don't have to own a piece of their business for them to represent them. That players representing them. They're represented by that, that player is represented by that person because that person is deemed to be capable of doing the job. of doing the job. Same for me.

Same for me. I wanna know this. After Dan Gilbert said what the hell he said. Yeah. He wrote what he wrote. Yeah. Said and LeBron quit, put that thing up in the paper. How in the hell did you convince LeBron

to take his ass back to Cleveland? Legacy. It's about legacy, man. We come from a place where two brothers shoot at each other and sleep in the same bed. What are we gonna set that? for. We're going to put that over your legacy. When you first told him, hey, Braun, check this

out, bro. For your legacy, I think you ought to go back to Cleveland with the title. What the bra said, what was his exact words to you? He was open-minded. He was open-minded, but he wasn't the first person I had a conversation. I had to have a conversation with, you know, we were close. So, Savannah and Unglow and Mav and Randy, we had to

we talked about it. But this was, but again, when you talk about this is my job, this is the role I play. So before you talk to Brian, you talk You talk to Savannah, you talk to glow, you talk to MAM. In addition to talking to them. I talk to everybody. How does Savannah feel?

Well, we've been down like four fat tires. So she understood where I have a perspective on it. Right. And I don't make it about me. What I'm saying is in terms of legacy. Right. And we identified the talent that was currently on the team. And it wasn't about winning.

I didn't know they was going to go to the finals in the first year. That was all I was saying was there's an opportunity. And if you're able to win, it's a rap. Forget anything else. If you win a championship for the city of Cleveland and the Cleveland Cavaliers, I don't care what anybody get on any media platform. It don't even matter. Right. From that point on, it's all uphill.

How receptive was his mom, Gloria? Coming from me, she understood it. She understood it. And she's going to support what he support. Right. She understood it. She's like a mom to me. So when I come, I barely come.

But when I do, I barely come to the table with anything. When I do come to the table with something, they know it's serious. Because I'm not coming to the table just for the sake of coming to the table. Right. I'm coming to the table. I've thought this through. I've strategized it. You know, it make perfect sense and so on and so forth.

And they allow me to do my job. The conversation of leaving Cleveland going to L.A. Whose idea was that? Well, the conversation leaving Cleveland going to L.A. I mean, I talked about this before. And I, you know, people just go crazy. But the conversation was pretty simple in terms of what is it that you want to do? if you want to stay here, let's stay here.

But if you want to go somewhere, your brand is here. You only got so many options, right? We wasn't going to New York, even though New York, you know, was an option. But ultimately, he had already had a place in L.A. and I had the opportunity of spending a year here because I had KCP here and getting a better understanding of the organization. Magic and I talked a lot, I knew Rob just throughout the years, and his family wanted to be in L.A. And so ultimately, it became an easier choice. But when we started doing the process of elimination, there's only so many places to go.

And you know, LJ gets bored about things or whatnot. And people take that out of context, but I'm just saying in terms of, and I said to him, now, the only thing is we already, you came back from 3-1, you brought a championship, and you didn't have been to 8 straight finals. I think he went to 8 straight. Yeah, he went to 8 straight. Four in Miami, four in Cleveland. You coming down off that mountain top.

Now, you know, when we go to L.A. It's all about championships. But all you need is one. You don't need 15. because you're not going to have the time to do that. But if you can get one, you know, and made a decision, and that was it. Like, it's not, again, when I come to the table with something, I don't come to the table that often. So when I do, it has some substance to it.

So what is your take on the player empowerment? We see players being able to, I'm not happy here, I'm going there. I'm not happy there. I'm going somewhere else. I'm not happy there. The James Harding situation. Yeah. What's your take on the Hardin situation?

Well, I mean, in James' case, I think from what I understand about and what he's said publicly, I know James known him for a long time. It's a personal thing that he feels as if something was promised. Was positioned for him and it's different. I don't know if it's totally basketball because I know James loved the game of basketball. And, you know, there's some things that probably could have taken place prior to, but that's up to them. I don't represent James, you know, but, but yeah, it's a tough situation for him, man. But ultimately, when you're in these type of situations, the one thing that's very important that I think people have to monitor and understand is your value.

Right. You want to keep your value up. And so you think about the value coming from the extension that could have been in Brooklyn to currently now. Well, he's never going to get that money. We don't know where that is. Rich, he's not getting that money. What was it? It ain't for me to say.

I don't know where it is. I don't know, but I'm just saying. I don't see it. I don't see him at that age wanting out of Houston, wanting out of Brooklyn, one and out of Philly. And somebody trusting him to give him that money. You've represented a lot of guys and you get close. You build a relationship. But how hard is it for you to part ways with a guy?

A guy said, you know what, man, this is just going to. It's not that hard. It's not? No, because at the end of the day, you have to understand, you're not going to be able to please everybody. And sometimes we can work a very, very thankless job. Sometimes you could do everything right and it's not good enough. Because, again, our athletes are being taught a certain way. They're being taught.

everybody should be doing stuff for you for free they're being taught that come play for my aAU team I'm gonna give you this your parents can fly on us so now you build when it comes to doing business and and it's a talent right so now if anybody has an entitlement to that talent

that's like the steering wheel of the car so now well what are you doing He's scoring the points. What are you doing? We don't only work on July 1st. We work all year round, but it's not looked at like that. So you have to start to distinguish yourself from who actually values you and values your expertise.

Because treat me the same way you treat that person sit behind the counter at the Louis Vuitton cash register. They ain't giving you no discount. You ain't coming to them. You throwing everything on it. And you, because it costs more and it's a little. thing, it's the statute thing, you want to show that you spent 200,000 at the store, right? But then when it comes to someone who... Your percentage, they want to cut your percentage and have.

That don't make sense to me, right? But this is what's happening in the space. Right. And for those that lead with that, because there's a lot of companies that lead with that, they do it playing on the ego that I'm so good that they want to work for less. Right. Because I'm so good. But when you think about life, nothing else in life works like that.

If you need heart surgery, you want a discount? You owe the best. I'm just asking you. I have to know. You got club Sheshire, your production crew. You want to just get some guys off the street? No, hell no. But only in sports is where they can feel.

the ego so much that it causes you to have bad business practice. Now people may say, oh, you're just saying that is self-serving. No, it's in anything, anything you do in life that's worthy. There's no shortcut to that, right? You go up in Hermes. You can't even buy nothing. By what? You know, you want to buy that?

This is my, no matter how much money you got. This is my point. So that's what I'm saying. But when they can't get it there, they go and pay what? Double and triple. Yes. You get what I'm saying? They play over retail.

So that's, I, my thing is just about respect. I mean, I can't say what other people do and don't do. It's just, but for me, it's just, so it's not that, it's not that hard when, if it's not working out, then it don't work out. I'm going to get you out of here on this one. And you're the closest to the story, so you would know. what is with the vitriol of the older players towards LeBron? It seems like, and it seems like a lot of the old players don't want to give this younger generation the credit that they deserve.

But it seems like a lot of the ire is pointed at 23. Why do you think that is? It's really corny to me. Absolutely. And I, like I said, you know, and when you're out there, you deal with certain things. It's layered, in my opinion. You got to remember, when LeBron came in, A lot of guys were still in their prime, and all the attention turned to him.

In 2006, all the attention, boom, 100 million dollar contract, real 100 million, not that fluff that'd be going out today. I'm talking about a hundred million dollar contract. Never drew up in NBA basketball in NBA. They ain't never seen nothing like that. You know, Jay-Z sending a private jet when he's sitting in high school. We're going up to New York every weekend, every other weekend, whatever, when you could. You know what I'm saying?

all these things. They wasn't, and so quite naturally in the neighborhood, you develop what? An envy. It's much easier for you be like, man, that's some cold, man, that's some, that's player. That's real player, man. I appreciate that. I'm proud of you. That's the hardest thing to do.

The easiest thing to do is what they do. You know, you have. And then now when you give that to a media platform, and now it's even, even trickling down to some of the younger players. They purposely don't say his name in things. Oh, I played this because of these people. But again, everybody didn't always had a mama mentality. The mama mentality came after Kobe was really done.

Then all of a sudden, everybody had the mama mentality. Because the mama mentality, everybody frowned upon it because they say he was ball hogging. Yeah, but when he was playing, because I was there, he wasn't hanging out with none of these guys. You give what I'm saying? I do. But I'm not surprised because I come from it. I wish it was different, but I'm not surprised because I come from it. But what impresses me more is that guy don't do unto those what they do to him.

His door's always been open. Every time you see somebody, man, what's up, show love, etc. Even when there's... Is it too nice? Too nice. Because George. Because Jordan gave. the players he played it with it but he like i am fully with y'all colby reeling then fool

but you got to understand some familiarity breed disrespect and i tell him that sometimes they can walk past somebody and don't even speak that make that person want to speak to you more if you speak to that person every time it becomes and that's that's the treatment that he gets sometimes you get them saying they get on draymond for being his friend it's craziness right but but but again this is this is not a about that's not a athlete thing. That's a people thing. And that's why I said,

what I said when we were talking on first take, we have to break those I'm not going to do one to those others as they've done to me. That's just not what I come from because you don't want those habits created. So. Is the Jordan-Lebron debate ever going to end?

It ain't going to end, but Brown's a goat. Jordan is a goat, but Brown's a gold. One guy got gold horn, the other guy got platinum horns? Yeah. Might got a little platinum in here, but it's like platinum and gold. And then bronze's all platinum. Lucky me, a memoir of Changing the Ours, Rich Paul. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. All my life. They're grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll of dice.

That's why all my life. I be grinding on my life. All my life. Running all my life. Sacrifice. Pustle paid the price. Want a slice. Not to roll a dice.

That's why. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving.

for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, the Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.