The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Richard Sherman Podcast - Richard Sherman SETTLES DEBATE: Seahawks' 2013 Legion of Boom vs. Broncos' 2015 No Fly Zone

Episode Date: February 21, 2026

This episode of The Richard Sherman Podcast dives headfirst into one of the biggest defensive arguments of the modern NFL era: the 2013 Seattle Seahawks’ Legion of Boom vs. the 2015 Denver Broncos’ No Fly Zone. Sherm gives respect to Von Miller, Aqib Talib, Chris Harris Jr., DeMarcus Ware, and the dominant Broncos Super Bowl defense — but then breaks down, stat by stat and tape by tape, why he believes Seattle’s defense wasn’t just better… it wasn’t even close. From interceptions and passing yards allowed to playoff performances and Super Bowl opponents, Sherman explains how the Seahawks shut down one of the greatest offenses in NFL history and why turnovers, intelligence, and scheme made the Legion of Boom historic. He also clears up the man-coverage vs. zone-coverage myth and explains how Seattle’s communication, football IQ, and depth separated them from every defense of the era. Plus, Sherman discusses:- Why turnovers matter more than style points- Peyton Manning’s historic 2013 offense versus Cam Newton’s MVP season- How Seattle’s scheme influenced Denver’s roster build- Why modern NFL defenses rarely stick to heavy man coverage- The philosophy behind the Legion of Boom’s four-season dominance Hit subscribe and turn on notifications — we’re dropping new content all offseason, including news, analysis, and breakdowns of your favorite teams and players. Wherever you are in the world, you’re with us — and we appreciate your support. All lines provided by Hard Rock Bet.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome back to the Richard Sherman podcast, and you know what time it is? It's the offseason, which means we can get into pointless debates about which defense is better. The 2015 Denver Broncos No Fly Zone or the 2013 Seattle Seahawks Legion of Boom. And in my personal biased opinion,

it's the Legion of Boom, and it's not even close. But I will make that point in a lot of ways, surgical way throughout this show, and you'll see what I'm talking about. But first off, we'll start. I got a ton of respect for the 2015 Denver Broncos, Vaughn Miller, DeMarcus Ware, Akieb, Chris Harris Jr., some of my favorite corners, some of my favorite guys to watch on tape. Some of the best corners in the National Football League during the decade that we played, very effective.

Like my guy, T.J. Ward, big-time hitter, a guy who played the game at a high level, played it the right way. Darian Stewart was a ball hawk in that secondary. also laid the hammer. Had a lot of respect for those guys. Bruton, who played a really good, really good at that season. But I just don't see it.

I don't see it being close. You talk about our defense, two defensive player a year candidates that year who came in top five in voting, third and five, respectively. Two first team all pros. Cam got a second team all pro. We got two all-decade members, Chris Harris, Jr. made the all-decade's team, so we've got to give him respect there.

But that season, I mean, it really, if you really looked at the paper, it's not even a debate. It's not even debatable. It's not, if you go back and look at it, it's not even debatable. If you look at the opponents we played in the Super Bowl, in the offensive efficiency and effectiveness of those teams, Is it debatable? It's really not. MVP Cam, no question about it. Great year.

Great season that season. You got shut them down in the Super Bowl. But was that season better than Peyton Manning's 2013 where he threw 55 touchdowns and 5,000 some yards? No, I'll tell you that's true. No, it wasn't. All MVP seasons aren't created equal. And the one Peyton had is in the history books for a reason.

And we shut it down and we made it look easy because of the deep. team we had and because of the defense we have, because of the players we had. Now, let me explain because your general manager, John Elway at the time, he said it best. He watched our secondary and said, hey, we need to recreate that to get back here. And we appreciate that. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. And we're flattered. You built a defense based off the Legion of Boom. And they got to the Super Bowl in dominant fashion and got the job done. That's something to be said.

I can respect that. But to then go back and say, we were better. I'm going to need you to prove that point. I'm going to need to see the numbers. Because the numbers, they're not numbering. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. I know it's tough with no football.

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14. That's not a ton. That's not a ton. That's not a lot of interceptions in general. I had eight alone in 2013. If you just look at the starting secondary, if you look at Chris Harris Jr. had two. Akeeb had three.

I think Dary and Stewart had one. Ward had zero. Let's see who else had a couple in this year that played a ton. Bruton. Bruton had two. So basically, if you take their whole starting secondary and even the safeties that rotated in, there's about nine interceptions in there. If you look at our secondary, just the starters, Cam, Earl Thomas, Byron Maxwell, myself,

that's 20 interceptions. Like, what are we really talking about here? What are we really discussing? If you go through passing yards per game, the Legion of Boom gave up, 172 passing yards a game, number one in the league. No Fly Zone gave up 199. That's a, that's a 20, what, 27-yard difference per game? Okay.

If you look at passing TDs per game in the Legion of Boom, what they give up, passing touchdowns a game. That's 2015. Got my stats right here, ladies and gentlemen. I'm not playing today. Legion of Boom gave up 16 passing touchdowns that season. In 2015, the Denver Broncos defense gave up 19 passing touchdowns. Again, how was it a debate?

Gave up more yards, gave up more touchdowns. Now, I hear the debate, oh, they carried this offense and this Peyton Manning, you know, was throwing ducks and doing all this. Their offense held the ball for 30 minutes in the game. Peyton Manning had about the same amount of passing yards through the playoffs as Russell Wilson. They ran the ball for about the same amount of yards as we ran. The difference between the Legion of Boom and the no-fly zone

is your offense would have preferred us. And Keeb said something crazy. He said, we played the sexier brand of defense, and people loved watching us more. You know how many kids have come up to me and said, man, you made playing DB fun again. man, you may be playing DB cool. We would have given your offense

14 more possessions than you guys gave them. And that's not including the picks that went for touchdowns. So when you complain about the offense, but you have half as many interceptions as our defense provided, I don't understand how the conversation is there.

So the offense stopped them from creating turnovers. I don't know. We doubled you up on interceptions. You had 14. we had 28 as a team. We had eight turnovers in the playoffs alone. In three playoff games, we had eight.

At three in the Super Bowl, we had three in the fourth quarter of the NFC championship alone. Every time the San Francisco 49ers offense lined up with the ball, the possession ended with us taking it from them. What are we really talking about? And then the people saying,

oh, well, y'all didn't play any people? in those playoffs. What? What are we? What did we talk? We played Drew Breeze in a divisional. He had 5,100 yards, 39 passing touchdowns to 12 interceptions. That would be an MVP season.

In most seasons, that would have probably won him to MVP in this day and age. But Peyton had more. Peyton had the most passing touchdowns, most passing yards in the history of National Football League, and we held them to eight points. And we didn't make it look that hard. We didn't make it look that hard. Y'all played Cam and a bunch of guys at a receiver that likely wouldn't have been number one receivers

anywhere in the National Football League. Congratulations. He was MVP. Cam had a heck of a year. The Carolina Panthers had a heck of a year. But it's not a comparison, guys. It's not. There's no number stat.

or anything you can put out there that would prove that point outside of subjective opinions about, oh, well, you know, I thought they were better than you guys. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. A pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We played man coverage on third down. Anybody out there, please. Somebody pull up the numbers, pull up the tape. Because watch third down. Nobody's playing 100% man-to-man coverage. So don't get that confused. I hate when people say, we play man, they play zone.

No, you didn't. You played zone, and we played some man. You played some zone, we played some man. We played some man, y'all played some zone. Like, that's how football works. Because, but the difference is, we didn't play zone because we had to. We didn't play zone because we were incapable of playing.

Man, we could have played man. We did play man. When push came to shove, you can watch the tape and somebody can pull up the percentages. I know somebody out there has gone down and combed through our tape and can show you. We probably played, I don't know,

18% man-to-man coverage was probably right around the league average. We played it on third down because you got to play it on third down. I played it on second down sometimes when the situation called for. Played on first down sometimes when the run game and the situation called for. There's a lot of factors that go into playing man-and-man coverage versus zone. But when you have players as smart as the players we had,

you have some of the highest IQ players in the National Football League on your defense. K.J. Wright, one of the smartest players in the National Football League. Cam Chancer, one of the smartest players in the National Football League, myself, Earl Thomas. Then it's a waste of resources to say, hey, we're going to put you on this guy and you stop him. because that might not even be the guy that that that beats you. That might not be. Jackson Smith and Jigba was the offensive player to year this season.

Honestly, the best receiver in the national football league. He went out of the Super Bowl very early. What did man coverage matter at that point? What matters is taking a football away. And that's why most teams play zone now. Most teams play predominantly zone. And you're not seeing a lot of teams that play predominantly man make the Super Bowl because it's easily beaten.

It's not easily beaten because you just don't have the personnel, but schematically, it's easily beaten. You can have the best corner in the league in the scheme they can run a play where people get in his way and the receiver just weaves his way through all the way across the field and is now open. Mike, there's nothing protecting the DB

from just getting picked off during the play by bodies. So you leave a lot of things up to chance, up to the referees calling a penalty. So our defense was, hey, Really smart players, we're going to run the same defense as often as we can. And when we got to run man and keep things tight, we will. But we're going to allow our intelligence to benefit us in the maximum way. And that's what we did.

That's why we had so many turnover. That's why we had 28 interceptions, 20 by the starting secondary. Because smart players, we're putting themselves in position to be successful. Like when you run the same defense, it's nothing special. They're not, the coaches weren't putting a ton of seasoning on these plays. It's not some exotic blitz package where we're depending on the coordinator to put us in position to be successful. No, it's really smart players saying, hey, this is what we're running, this is the formation they're giving us, these are their tendencies in the formation, communicating thoroughly.

Hey, you got this, hey, we're going to bastardize this way to give them a too high look or to give them this look, and then we're going to run the route for them and we're going to take the football from it. They gave us opportunities to see the formation. to see the ball. That's why we ran the defense we ran. Because we were really smart and it would make us really, really effective. And that's why we led the league in turnovers.

We led the league in passing yards. We led the league in scoring for four years straight. You know why we do that? Because we are coaches on the field. We're understanding what we're dealing with. We're understanding the personnel we're dealing with. And then we're just damn good players. And we'll go back to Leaves.

commentary about if you put the two secondaries against each other, I'm picking me all day. First off, and Lee, there's not a corner in this world that's going to say anything other than what Leab said. I'm sure if you ask Chris Harris Jr., he's saying the same thing. You asked Byron Maxwell, he's saying and saying, that's how we built. That's how corners talk. I'm not picking nobody over myself at any time, any place. I'm sorry, especially guys that played in the same time as I play.

So I respect that. I ain't got no problem with that. But that's not saying the necessary truth. If you took, there are guys on our secondary that if you took from our secondary in 2013 and put them on the Denver Broncos secondary, they'd be the best guys in that secondary. Is that debatable point? Is that something that we're debating? I had eight interceptions in a season.

That season, the seasons we're comparing to, 2013 versus 2015. That would have objectively been. a better season than anybody on that secondary. Earl Thomas had five interceptions that season. First team all pro. Third and defensive player at a year voting. That would have objectively been better than any season anybody on Denver Broncos secondary had.

Cam Chancellor, second team all pro. With a ton of devastating hits, a ton of really incredible moments that you weren't seeing. I mean, some of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history that you're really not appreciating. I wish I could break him down for you. He was getting a seam that we're seeing alert, falls off the seam to cover the overall out.

that should have been wide open. Peyton Manning was pulling his hair out about it because they thought that was a gimmy. And it should have been, if not for Cam Chancell's incredible play. But I say all this to say, the gap between the 2013 Legion of Boom and the 2015 No Fly Zone

isn't even a closable gap. Now, let's step back. If you compared the 2015 Denver Broncos to the 2015 Seattle Seahawks, then you got a better argument. You got something to say. Damn, you got a point. make. That was a down year for us. But we still let the league in points. We still were better than

the 2015 Denver Broncos in point. We were second in yards. We gave up less passing touchdowns, had the same amount of interceptions. Like, again, you're not even going to be able to find a great gap there. They had, they gave up to, uh, 199 passing yards a game. I think we gave up to 10. Like, people are like, y'all lost to the Panthers that year, and they beat the Panthers. We gave up 161 yards and one touchdown to Cam Newton. I think y'all gave up 245 in the Super Bowl. Like, it just doesn't always work out perfectly in these games. Jonathan Stewart had a great run in the game.

There was some plays that our offense would have wanted back. Some plays we would have wanted back. Shoot, it wasn't our best work. That was an off year. We did not play as well as we should have in that game, and they played the better game, and they won. That's why they won. But to act like this was some crazy deal,

and to actually ignore the offense that we faced in the Super Bowl, which is one of the statistically greatest of all time, and we made them look like they were a JV team that got to play on the same field as us. They got the garbage time touchdown that we were pretty upset about. Demeris had a bunch of catches, and garbage dime, but for the most part, we just dominated them from start to finish. They ran that hurry up stuff.

We were better. We were more prepared. We were ready for all of it. All the smoke. We scored, even if you take away to PAT, our defense scored eight points in that game. Our special team scored six. So that would have been 14. That would have been enough to win without our offense stepping on the field with the kind of game we played.

And again, I keep hearing this like, oh, man, they drugged this offense. we, I would imagine we would have drug them there too. And we'd have made it look easy. We'd have made it easier with more turnovers. We took the ball. We took pride in getting on the field and saying, hey, we about to take the football again. And in this day and age, it's hard to do. So I say all that to say, if you guys, if somebody can show me a stat or a number that makes their point, I'm all ears.

But there aren't many. there aren't many and the man versus zone stuff isn't isn't what y'all making it out to be right now in this day and age nobody's playing more than i think Denver played 30 32 percent Cleveland played a really crazy amount i think they might have played 40 which is out outrageous for this time i don't think before them that the league average is like 34 35 at its highest in 2019 it's at about 22 right now. The league average of man coverage, percentage of man coverage plan. Most people only play it on third down.

It doesn't make a ton of sense to play in a red zone because teams are getting too creative. And again, it just feels like lazy coordinating to put your defense in those positions where, hey, it doesn't matter what you do. They can pick you off. They can run away from you. They can motion back and forth, get lost at the snap and then run the opposite way and you beat.

Like, it really puts a lot of weight on the secondary and on the player to get things right. And even when you get things right, it might be an incredible catch. Like, that's why the Super Bowl winning teams over the last couple of years have not played a ton of man coverage. A lot of them are six. Vic Fangio, six, this two hybrid cover three, three fire zones. A lot of coverages like that.

That's what the league has moved to. And again, if you really look at it, a lot of teams still play cover three, because it's still great against the run. It still does the job that it needs to do and stacking eight in the box and getting guys gap sound. Seattle Seahawks still played a lot of cover three this year. They played too high, they played six,

they played four, they played two men, they played regular man, but they played a lot of three as well. So I just don't get it. I don't get it. Y'all can tell me I'm wrong, but the numbers support what I'm saying, and I don't see what the numbers,

how you can beat those numbers. If the numbers were the opposite way, I wouldn't have an argument to make. If you said the Denver Broncos had had a better points per game than us, we had 14, they had 18, then I wouldn't be able to make that argument. If they had given up less passing yards per game than us, I wouldn't be able to make this argument. If they had double our interceptions, I wouldn't be able to make this argument.

And the opposite would be true and it would be factual. If they could make the claim, hey, we had double y'all interceptions. Like, what are we talking about? How would that be an argument? How would it be an argument? If you said, hey, we had 13 more turnovers than y'all as a defense, how would it be an argument? The part of the argument that changes it is the two Hall of Fame pass rushers they had.

Von Miller was the best player on that defense. I think if you ask anybody who the best player on our defense that season was, it would start with the secondary, regardless of who you pick. Now, Bobby Wagner is, in my opinion, the best middle linebacker they ever played in National Football League and his numbers and accolades support that. I think Cliff Aver and Mike Bennett are two of the best pass rushers. They're going to be underrated for most of their career. But in 2013, they weren't even the starters that year. It was Chris Clemens and Red Bryant Steel.

And people don't even realize that. That's what made us so great. It's how deep we were. Bruce was coming off the bench. It was a lot of guys, great guys. Truck drivers coming off the bench. Brandon Meebane was starting. KJ and Malcolm were rotating at times.

KJ. and Malcolm were rotating to the point where Malcolm ends up getting Super Bowl MVP. It's crazy. And then we're not even talking about Walter Thurman III, who would have been a starter on every team in the National Football League that season. And he got a little banged up and things didn't work out like it should,

but one of the best nickels in the National Football League that season as well. And Byron Maxwell would have laid, from the 2013 season, would it lay at the Denver Broncos interceptions? Like, if it was the other way, would it be an argument? It wouldn't. So that's why I don't understand where the angst and this conversation has gotten and how it's gotten out of control. It's like not supported by anything.

And if it was, I would respect it. I would respect. If Leib had eight interceptions, first team all pro, fifth and defensive player at a year voting, and I had three interceptions, and we won the Super Bowl and we were playing a lot of man, I'd say, Lee, you had a better season that year. Like, I think I'm better, and I think I, you know, I still got my numbers and I still do my thing. But if we're comparing them to seasons, he got that one. That's all I'm saying.

That's all I'm saying, guys. Got a lot of respect for what they did that season. dominated. But what we did is better. And that's the easy way to put it. Appreciate y'all joining me. As always, you can be anywhere in the world, but you're here with me, and I surely do appreciate it.

We'll see you next time. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions

because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, reader Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano. And on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice.

Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager.

And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.