The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Richard Sherman Podcast - Rod Woodson on Steelers football, 2000 Ravens defense, 71 INTs & NFL DB play today | Richard Sherman

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Hall of Fame DB Rod Woodson joins Richard Sherman to talk about his legendary NFL career—from starring with the Pittsburgh Steelers to winning a Super Bowl with the Baltimore Ravens. Woodson shares the mindset and instincts that made him one of the best to ever do it. He breaks down what made the 2000 Ravens defense special with Ray Lewis, shares stories from his time in Pittsburgh, and explains how he became a true ball hawk with 71 career interceptions. Rod also talks about today's NFL, how offenses have changed, and what young corners need to succeed now. He and Sherman get into film study, coaching, leadership, and what it takes to survive in the NFL at DB. If you love football, defense, and great stories, don’t miss this one.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The New York Giants and Super Bowl. I said, man, you do can't beat us, man. I know you watch ball. I mean, the fundamentals are gone. Welcome back to the Richard Sherman podcast. I'm happy to have a legend on today's show. Hall of Famer, Super Bowl champion, former defensive player of the year, nine-time all pro.

Man, the list is long. 11-time pro-bowler, not just a DB. He played safety, kick return, pump return, did it all. Two-time interception leader in the National Football League and still holds a record for most picks. is in NFL history with 12. It's my honor to welcome Rod Woodson to the show. Appreciate you joining me.

Man, I appreciate you having me on, sir. It's my absolute pleasure. You are an absolute legend. 71 interceptions in the National Football League. I mean, Dick Knight Train Lane is ahead, but I still, you know, I got to go back and look at some of them Dick Knight Train Lane. But 71, like, that was crazy. You got drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers in 80s.

stepping into that old school Steelers culture. What was your welcome to the league moment back then? Oh, shoot. That was like, that was my first game. We played, I think, with New Orleans. You know, and I held out. So my rookie year, it was 87. So that was the holdout year.

So remember the scab player, so to speak. So the holdout. And then I didn't sign my rookie contract until October 28th. So I only played about five, six games, seven games. When I remember my first game, kick returner, to have me kick return, you know, college brudge, you know, you kick return, you break, hole opens up, it stays open in college.

Not so much in the national football league. I see the hole, I hit it, dude, I got, ah, I go this way, ball go that way, former recovery, they get the ball on a five-yard line, we lose by three points. I mean, I was devastated, you know, coming on my first game. But that was my well-being-to-the-fell moment because I just thought I was fast.

I knew I could run. I was like, man, all these dudes can run. Everybody can run football league. I mean, the best of the best of the best of the world. But I was lucky I had John Star Wars is still playing. Donnie Shell was still playing. And Donnie became, they pared me up with Donnie on the road games. So I got a lot of knowledge from Donnie.

Mike Webby. Webby was still playing. So I got a lot of love from those older guys to teach me the right way. Hey, don't hang your hat. It happens. It happens in the Nashville. Like, everybody's going to have those moments

where you get got. Right. No question about it. And that's, it's such a hard lesson for you to learn because you come from being in college, being so dominant, and then you get that wake up. But then it's like, you've got to snap back into that,

like, I can play with these dudes. So when did that happen for you when you say, hey, man, I can still play. I can play in this league too. Yeah, you know, I never, it was kind of crazy, Shirn, because I'm a quiet dude, but I never had a problem with me believing in who I am. I was the youngest three boys.

So my oldest brother, my older brother, middle brother, they used to beat snout out of me. But we used to like, we used to race. So Reynolds and Chestnut used to play against projects and everything. But we had track meets, we had football, we had basketball, we had baseball. And then we started running. I was dusting cats.

And they was four or five years older to me. I'm like, you got to run. So I kind of gave me some confidence of who I was. And I never, but I never really had a doubt because my brother beat me up all the time. So it kind of toughed me up mentally. And then when I got into the league, I was blessed with Tony Dungey. So I had Tony as my DB coach,

M-I-D coordinator. So I played safety in college. Right. So I played safety in college. They moved me to corner when I ran my 40 at the Combine. And so I had to learn how to play out there. But to say that, like,

I think there was moments that I had where I had to learn how to play corner. I had some doubts because I remember one time, I was playing against, the Buffalo Bills and James Lawton out there. James Lothan runs right, and James can run. James can run right by me.

I kept back over. I didn't even turn. They throw the ball up, touchdown. And I come to the sideline and Tony looked at me and said, what were you thinking? I said, coach, I have no idea. You know, but I was like, so I had to like figure out how to like play that position.

But once, it was like year, I would say, because we were kind of young in our secondary, we had five rookies in our secondary, my rookie year. So I think that the second year, probably three-fourth away through the season, where I started saying, oh, yeah, yeah.

I got a feel for this. I still had Tony there. Tony leaves after that. And then the guy named Rod Russ comes in. and Rod like week two cusses me out you mother effing I mean

he gave it to me and he said you need to learn this game and I was like gee I said well teach me and me and him went into the office

for about four weeks and his first question to me sharing was how many formations can the office get into you know I'm thinking I'm like oh god 500.

He was like, man, how many eligible receivers? I said five. He said, they can get in five formation. And I was like, what? He was like, yeah, what they do, they try to confuse you with these different people. But if a receiver is by himself on the backside and he's flexed, he's the X.

Don't matter if he's a tight end, don't matter if he's a running back. So he's going to be the X for their offense. We make him the running back all the time. So it confuses us. on the defensive side, but they move these pieces around, and then the final formation comes out, and they only run about five plays.

So we can go through the process. It took me in about four weeks to really, like, really, really believe it. And that green light clicks on, I'm like, oh, get out of here, coach. That's all they do. That's it. That's all they do.

They disguise what they're doing. They're scined their attention, and you just got to believe it. I said, oh, shoot, don't worry about that. And I'm going to believe it. And then after that, I went to seven straight pro bowls as the corner, but it was for, it was because having a guy like Tony initially because I was messing up.

And Tony, you know, Tony don't yell and scream and all that stuff. But then I need to ride after Tony left because Rod got me straight. He got me straight up here. But he also taught me the game. So I think if I didn't go to Pittsburgh, I probably wouldn't have been as blessed. but going there having Tony give me love at the cornerback spot and let me feel that I'm worthy to be out there

I never had that self-doubt but getting that love from your coaches and then learning from those old heads, those OGs. I mean, that was, I was overly blessed. And then after that, Dick LaBoe comes in for five years. So, you know, my 10 years at this point, And I was like, I was overly blessed with too much knowledge at the coaching position. And I just had to be able to exorver wanting to launch home up.

And that takes, that takes some humility as well. It does. It's being open to those conversations and open to the learning. I think the thing that helped me develop fast because I honestly, I'm not a great peddler. So I couldn't pedal. So I'm six three with big feet and not a great pedal. And so because I came from receiver in college. And so I played receiver my first three years.

And Bill Walsh literally came in and installed the West Coast for us my first year at Stanford. So actually it was my second year because Harbaugh brought him in. And so I learned it. We learned it from the master. So we learned it from the beginning. And you know most offenses in the National Football League, the foundationally, they're West Coast. Like at their roots, at their screws at their West Coast. So once I learn to play every position in that offense,

then my junior year, I switch over to defense. Now, I can't paddle. I can't paddle now. I can't paddle at all. But I know the route tree. I know where everybody's supposed to be. I know every combination of routes. I know every split, every, like the spacing of everything when they're in a bunch.

What process of elimination? I'm super smart with that. So I understand every bit of it. So when I get to the league and get an opportunity to play, I tell Pete, like I'm like, Pete, I'm going to play with my butt to the sideline. I'm going to almost like get halfway to running the route. Right. Because that's going to put me in a better position to be able to cover these guys like you want.

If I get in a pedal, they're going to be able to beat me. Like, I'm going to get beat more times than not. But if you let me play in this half cocked like shuffle, I can, I promise you, I can get, I can get, I can get, I can, I can break anywhere you want me to be. And I'm already anticipating the routes that I'm going to see the routes that I'm going to get. And so in my first three years in the national football league, I had 20 interceptions. Because it just made sense to me. It was like, hey.

Pete let you do it. Pete let me do it. Now, he told me this. Go ahead. No, go to finish. What he told me, he said, hey, you can do this, but if it doesn't work, this is your career. You know what I mean?

Like, if it doesn't work, you're going to sit down. Absolutely. But, you know, that's what I like. That's, to me, great coach. allow you to be you. Like you knew, you knew your negatives, right? You're not a great back color, you know, but you're long. Like, I rated you coming out.

I graded you coming out. Your short shuttle and your three cone were fast. Like, I mean, and when I look at, like, I got you on my, I got like a little, like a board of all the really good players who've come out the last 25 years. and the guys who are played at a really high level, and you're one of them that I have on the board. I'm like, you know, your 40 time wasn't like 4-3, 4-2,

but you don't need a 4-2 when you're a short shuttle in their three cones as fast as you were. And I was like- Appreciate that. So what I've learned when I started coaching is that every player is different. Some guys got tight-hips, some guys came back cuddle, some guys came back cuddle, some guys don't like press. and you got to allow, the really good coaches allow players to be themselves

inside of their system as long as you don't go rogue, right? Right. And then you got to make plays when they allow you to do that, right? You got to make plays so they can say, see, look, my boy, he's doing this thing,

I'm allowing to do it. All right, I ain't going to let everybody do it. Right. But he can do it. Right. And that was a conversation sometimes in those rooms is, hey, you guys stop doing it because it's not working for you.

You can't play butt to the sideline and make the plays and run this dig for the receiver or break on this pass like he's doing. So just play in your pedal because you're a good peddler. You can feel, you can go with the weave and you can play it that way. But he's better at this than you guys. Right. See, that's a good, see, that's what I love. That's what, because Tony allowed me to be me because I used to jump out of my stands.

So I would be in my, I'll be impressed and I would always jump. And Tony would try to get me to get out of the jump. And then Dick comes in and Dick was like, oh, you jump out of this stance. Oh, he's fine. He was like, because you can get out of it. Right. He said, a lot of guys who. So did you hop to wide?

Yeah. I was narrow hop to wide. Okay. And I never had, I mean, when I first started, I would be a little lower than I wanted to be. And Dick got me more up here, more upright. So being more in the athletic position. so I wouldn't because every time I had to really start running, I had to raise up anyway.

Why have the waste of movements and have these weights of steps? So even in year five, I got better because Dick was like, look, you do this, you're going to get that much better. And then, heck, I think the following year, that's when I was doing the player of the year. Wow. Wow. See, that's another huge, that's a great point,

because that was another huge change. from college to the National Football League is my stance because I was so they told me to be so low in college and I'm 6-3 and it's like they're like you got to get low in your stance and I'm like bro by the time I raise up they're by me because you want me to be so low and I'm like if you let me be in a comfortable stance I can move with them but it's like like you said I got to raise up so when I got to Seattle Pete got in front of me literally maybe first or second day out there and he worked on all of us with our stance and he was like hey getting a stand you could stand in for two hours. And I was like, I can't stand low for two hours. So I'm almost like, I got a slight bend in the knee, but it's almost like a basketball, like I got a slight bounce. Right.

And he was like, can you stand in this for two hours? If I came back in two hours, you'd be in the same position? I was like, yeah, it's like, this is your stance. I'm like, okay. That's a real good point right there. I never heard of it said like that. That's what he, that's how he got us.

I like that. I like that saying. I'm showing, I'm still in that. Yeah. It worked. It worked for me. And ever since then, my press got better. My step replaced, my step kick got better. And I was so much more patient and comfortable because I didn't feel like now I would sometimes jump in my stance like you did. Like if I had a quicker receiver that I was dealing with and I wanted to like speed him up, I would almost jump like almost not like a half an inch forward. Right. To like speed him up. So they can't do all that. Like no, let's go now. Right. Because he taught, did he teach you guys to your, what is it, pure step? Yeah.

Is that what he called it? The Pure Step? Yeah. So he called the Pure Step. So I know, so when I was coaching with Kenny, Kenny had us teaching it. And I was like, I said, give me the philosophy behind it, Kenny. I said, I know you want them to be patient. But then once I learned it, I was like, oh, okay.

I see what the overall aspect, what you're trying to get everybody to slow down. slow your head down, like, if he'd calm. I said, at the end of the day, that's what you want from your players anyway. So I'm like, so that's, that's really good. Like what Pete said to you guys, but what he also let you do, though, he saw, he saw that you're there,

but he said, hey, he can bail and he can play just as good. So I'm going to let him play, I'm going to let him bail. What do you want to bail? And so we would, we would usually only bail if two, if we had two displaced. So that was our cover three philosophy is, hey, if you single, if you got a single receiver,

no two displaced, even if it's a tight end, even if you're on a Z. You're pretty much in man. You're man. You press man. Like he runs a fade. You got him,

come back, you got him, dig, you got him everywhere. Now, if you got two displaced, you have to bail because you have to see two, because you got the vertical of two. That's right. And so, but it would help me see the picture,

and we had such a smart defense, that, hey, if I got two displaced and two starts to go over, then I know one's coming to replace them in that zone. It's either going to be a dig or a pulse. So, hey, hey, Bobby, I need you to go with that one. I got this dig. I'm going to drive the dig. I'm going to drive the RAM route or whatever you guys call it.

And I'll probably pick that. Or, you know what I mean? We had such a great feel for things like that. And it was a lot to do with just you can only attack cover three and what we were doing so many different ways. And when we played man, it was you expect the, three concepts because they think you're going to be in three. Even when we're in May, and you're like, hey, they're going to run three beaters here because they think we're in three.

Let me ask your question. So if you guys were in displaced two, but you had a wide gap between one and two. Did you guys ever lock it? Rare. We started to do it later on in our career in my career, but rarely, rarely because it would cause such an issue. We would still have the buzzer, buzz out there, he would almost be between one and two. Right. So he buzzed because you didn't want to create that big gap when one did the quick hitch and two ran a seven. Right.

And so I would almost angle towards two to overlap to close that lane so there's not that big space. Right. Okay. Okay. You know, I like that. I mean, because it's good to talk to guys who really understand ball, but understand the cornerback position. And the aspect of what offenses are trying to do to defense and how you play inside of that.

Because at the end of the day, so many routes they can run, right? And nowadays, they're running more options off to where our bodies are at, right? That's the old, like, when you go to the run and shoot, the run and shoot was based on wherever our body was at, they're going to run opposite of that, right? Right. And again, when you got the K-gun, which is the Buffalo Bills, and then you got the, what's the other one called, the air raid, air raid, like, they're flooding zones, right? Right.

So, like, to understand, like, the philosophy, how you're going to play against those guys and playing against those, having really good coaches to help you understand the defenses, but then allow you guys to make certain calls inside of your defense, that to me, that's when you're flying really good. That's why your deference was so good. Because you allowed to talk to each other,

make your checks, the major checks, and you go play ball. And we would bastardize it too at times. Like if we got in a unique situation in the game, they trusted us. The coaches literally we would do things on the fly and then talk about it in the meeting the next day. And they'd be like, what did you guys do right here? It was like, coach, hey, you wanted to get them covered.

We knew that Gronk and Edelman were going to quick switch out of this nasty split. They were stacked up on each other. And when they switched, we knew, hey, Cam, you want to be on Granc, I want to be on Edelman. We don't want them to get the match up they want. So when Edelman breaks out, I'm going to take him. You take Gronk up the middle. and we'll deal with it later. We don't have a call for this.

This isn't how the defense is normally played, but the coaches will, look, we both all pros right now. I think they'll live with our decision making right now. Now, see, I like that. And I like coaches. To me, the great coaches in the league are the coaches that allow you to be inside of the system, allow you to be you and make your calls. Because we made, I made some crazy calls.

We made crazy calls, but we knew this defense. We knew what we wanted to do. We knew what we wanted to accomplish. We knew what they were trying to do against us. And our coaches let's do it. And that's the beautiful part of defense. You had 71 picks. Like, what, what, that's, I mean, it's still second all time.

And nowadays, nobody's getting that many. I think I led the decade with 37 in the regular season and four in the, so 41. But it's so much harder because they're letting the quarterbacks be more comfortable. Like, they're not knocked out. they're not concussed, they're not worried about getting killed during the game. What do you think was like your favorite interception? And then what do you think helped you throughout, you know, just to get that many of them? Yeah, you know, what I would do inside of a, inside of resistance, well, I would play cover two,

sometimes at eight yards off. But Tony would let me. Right. Right. So I would play eight yards off. I would press, sometimes cover two, bail, then stop at three. yards. So they don't know if I'm by bailout.

Is he bailing and he's always billing? Or is he belling and he going to stop? Is he bailing because he didn't cover two? Is a dude off at eight? And I would take like three steps at eight yards. And I'm like, if he runs a hitch or a slant, see you. I'm gone. If they don't, then I'm just going to get in their way because I can't touch them

that far down the field, but I still can reroute them with my body so I can get in the way of them and still, because we call it up and outside. So that up and outside and cover two, we would cover that all the way, that soft squats, what we call it. I could take that up to like 15 yards. 15, 10 to 15, that window. I could take it up there.

So, I mean, I would do all kind of crazy stuff. I would play, I would stay. I wouldn't let the receiver and the quarterback see me pressed or being off and say, oh, he's going to do this. And be like, now you don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I'm going to sometimes do it. Some I'm going to quick jeremy.

so I'm not, so I ain't act like I'm going to do it. I'm going to be able to, then I'm going to stop again. And so I try to make them think more. And then I had in my head, I had four formations in my head. And they're going to, these four formations,

as soon as they come out, I'm going to look at my safety and this nod. And he's like, if they'd run, they better not run that route. Like if they run that route, it's over. Right.

I mean, had some teams that run the route and I got them. And I remember Green Bay, Brett Farr's first start. They ran every time Sturray and Sharper's on the weak side, back was offset far, away from the tight end, offset far. They were swinging the back, and he would always run a curl. Slant. No, run.

Curl? Ran a curl on the backside. So I'm like, boy, if they run that is over, got me. Double move, touchdown. then I go back, I think it was like four series later. I muffed a pun. And then they know normally when you make a mistake, you try to recover.

Right. Next play, sluggo, touchdown. Oh. So it's like, so, you know, they can use that against you. But the one thing I try to always do in which I had Tony and the coaches that I had, they just allow me to show different things. Like, we would sometimes, we would, we would cloud

reduce splits we didn't have to sometimes we would cloud it I'll become the safety the safety to come down and beat a corner and they let us do it right

because they knew we were comfortable in making these calls and heck listen at the end of the day even though I was a big corner my safeties are bigger to me right tackle better

they were better they were better track there so to speak than I was so why not put them in a cloud if it's right I mean you played for so many great defenses.

I mean, that 2000 Ravens defense is still one of the best defenses of all time, and they're always in that conversation. We were having this debate online, the 2015 Broncos defense, and then the Legion of Boomer 2013 defense, like which one

was better? And obviously, you know, which one I feel was better. But, I mean, when you talk about that Ravens defense, there's no conversation that doesn't include the 85 bears to 2,000 Ravens every single time. What made that defense so special, you think? Man, you know what?

It was the growth that we had over the first two years, Sherm. Like, I first got there in 98, and the first year we were like 6 and 10 or something crazy. Second year, coach retires. We get Brian Billy to come in. Martin Lewis is the de-coordinator. Martin Lewis was in Pittsburgh with us, right? So we're running the same defense that we should. running Pittsburgh, but if a 4-3 instead of a 3-4, right?

So we had to do some things kind of like bastardized, some of the defenses on the backside because of our, our defensive end instead of outside linebacker. We had to do that, but I think what made us good is that Ray came into his own. Like Ray became, he was making plays, he was already a tackler, right? Like, you know, when I first got there, Ray was, I think he was, He loved the team and tackles every single year his first, I think, three years.

And he kept getting better inside of the game. Then he started making big plays in these big games. But I think what really made us good is, to be honest, is that we had leaders across the board, so we had leaders up front. We had Sam Adams, Tony Saragusa, and everybody knows Goose, because Goose was so crazy and silly,

and he talked crazy. everybody. But Sam Adams, that dude could get it. Sam Adams can get it. So having a guy that's 3.30 and another guy that's 3.50 sitting there

in a three technique and a two technique, you couldn't move them. So you couldn't run the ball against this. So defensively, as a defensive back, you know, do we at Chris McAllister

and Dwayne Starks at corners. And then the other safety was Corey and Kim Harris. So, you know, they would rotate back and forth. But we didn't worry about the run game. Like, if I'm in the core, yeah, I'm a part of the run game. But if I ain't part of the run game, I don't even come up because they,

nobody run their ball against this. Right. I mean, Sharon, we had five games. We didn't score a touchdown on all. Oh, I saw it. I saw it. It was a stretch, too. And we won three of, I mean, so we could score on defense.

And we knew how good we were. Like I knew when we played the New York Giants in the Super Bowl, I said, man, you do can't beat us, man. If they get across the 50-yard line. So the Giants beat Minnesota Vikings who were really good that year, and they had some ballers. Like I was a little nervous going against Randy, Chris Carter, and all them dudes.

I mean, they had some players over there on the Minnesota Vikings' offense. I was a little nervous. me and Ray we got there Monday so that first week we're looking at tape a half go by we're looking at that Minnesota

Giants game we're like we looked each other and said man if they get across the 50 we quit we quit we ain't good we ain't good

and they got across 50 one time from a Kip return so we're like we just had confidence in who we were I mean it's like you guys with the Legion of Boom, you guys had swag, right? You knew you were good.

You knew, you know, like, I mean, you guys are going to change courses of games, making big plays, knocking people. I remember, man, what was your safety? What was a strong safety? Cam Chancer. Cam, hit the tight end for the New York. Vernon Davis. Hit the tight end from San Francisco by the goal line.

Yep. Man, he hit him. I felt it on TV. I like, doubt. dude he didn't want to go back like if i'm him i don't want to go back here there was so many plays like that and on that play it was raining that day i would never forget because they they ran uh we used to call it like an x beater so condensed x split he goes to to run a pick route on the linebacker that's covering the tight end right and the tidying wheels around and runs to go yep

and so he took crabtree i'm covering crab tree and he picks off malcolm smith and then Vernon goes up the sideline, but Cam read it quick. So Cam's in middle field safety. He's on course. And it was raining. And I somehow saw the sweat get knocked off that man's face. Forget the rain. Forget the water from the ride.

I saw the sweat get knocked off. And it was a legal hit, but the ref threw the flag. And I said, ref, I see why you do it. It was legal now, but I see why you through it. I mean, I was ready to throw a flag and I was on his team. Man, I mean, that hit was one of the most vicious hits. I seen. I don't think people even thought about it too often.

But man, as a player, when he hit him, I said, oh, bro, he don't want to play no more. He don't want to play. We played him in the NFC championship game that year, and he ran a crosser. And people talk about the way Cam hit Demarius Thomas in a championship in the Super Bowl. But he hit Vernon the same way in the NFC championship. Vernon was running a crosser, a shallow cross, and we ran a robber, and they picked off the man covering him. And he came down as the robber and he, and didn't even,

Vernon fumbled the ball. Cam didn't even look at it. He went to do this celebration. And we were like, hey, Vernon does not want to play. He don't want to be out here with this man. And to what you said, like that was the year Denver broke all those records

and Peyton had all those records and he was throwing a ball all over the yard. And we watched a tape. And what we saw was they weren't running anything super complex. They were getting people tired. And they were lining up fast. They were in a hurry up and guys couldn't get their calls. They couldn't get their checks.

And then they're running slant flat. They're running curl flat. They're running drive basic, like simple stuff. Like hit seven. They're not running complicated offense. But when you're not lined up and you're confused and you're tired, fatigue will make cowards of us all. Right. And so we just ran gasser's.

We ran gassers from the beginning of that week because you got two weeks from the beginning of that week all the way to we got to New York for the Super Bowl. were running gas, we're like, hey, they're not running us off this field. That's one thing you're not going to do. Like, we're not, we're not, y'all not running us off this field. Y'all don't have to beat us. And we run a super, we rarely huddle anyway. So it's not like y'all going to catch us in between. We rarely go to the huddle.

We look, we're running what we're running and can y'all deal with it? Like, y'all, y'all, y'all not going to be confused by what we're doing. Y'all, we're not going to be confused by what y'all doing. Line it up. And I remember they were on like a, maybe a 12 or 13 play drive. And Demarius and Eric Decker tapped out of the game. And when I tell you, Rod, I called them everything in the book on their way to the sideline. I said, y'all in the Super Bowl and y'all tapping out, like, this third down,

y'all bringing in these backups third down in the Super Bowl and y'all down. Like, y'all not built to win this game. You're not built to beat us. Y'all know where you, y'all shouldn't even be out here with us. See, that's what I, that's, I mean, that's, but that's, and it's, you know, people say, oh, that's arrogant. But it's not because it's a fine line between. confidence and arrogant. And I'd say you walk that line.

Like the great teams always walked at it. Like, I wasn't a real talker, but all my boys were. And we always backed it up, though. Like, when I was in Pittsburgh, we had some, we had some freaking defenses in Pittsburgh. We blitzed everybody. Right? And then when I got to Baltimore,

we had that year in Baltimore where we were like, that was one of the best events arguably in the history of football. In the history of the game. Right. Ten points a game. And we, And we knew how good we were. And we talked, I mean, I didn't talk a whole bunch, but all my boys talked.

All of them, all of them talked. And I was like, she, hey, y'all feel that? I mean, if you thought, does that who get you going? And that's what fires you up? Then go for it. Right. You know, and then depending the coaches, let us do it. Because, and I would say our defense was a bunch of quiet.

Like, Cam didn't talk a lot. Earl rarely talked. Bobby Wagner was on that team. Like, it didn't really talk that much. I was probably the loudest. But they were all like, hey, I'm with him now. Like, I'm with what he said. So if that's where y'all want to go with it, that's where we're going. Like, I'm not shying away from what he said.

I just don't need to say it. But in 90, I want to talk about 95. Because that was a crazy season for you. It was. Like, you tore your ACL. rehabbed all throughout the season and then came back in the Super Bowl. Like, what was it, 19 weeks or something like that?

Yeah, so, I mean, it was the first game of the season going against Barry. The crazy thing is, man, I did some stupid stuff. Like, I would, so we played on the Astro, old Astroft, right? And normally when I play on the AstroTurf, I would break my shoes in. My game, the shoes I was going to wear that week.

I would wear them throughout the week so they can, like, fit my feet. I didn't do that that week. I didn't do it. It was stupid. So it was overly hot, first game of the year, Barry Sanders. You know, I'm like, this little dude right here, man, like, we got everybody got to come and tackle him because he everywhere. So he breaks out on the right side. I plant, and, man, my foot got stuck.

I try to turn. And, you know, normally if I wear the shoes I should have been, my foot would to turn with me. That thing's great. I jumped up, felt a pop. Good thing is, man, I, I, Bill Cowher was cool as all get out as a head coach. Because Bill, back then, Sherm, if I went on IR, I was done for the year. Right. Wasn't coming out. And so we met with the doc on Monday, and Doc said, hey, it's going to be eight, he said, it's going to be like eight to ten weeks. I like, I think the time. Right?

So I'm counting, and he said it could be up to three months, four months, could it be up to six months. But I'm counting the shortest period of time, right? I'm like, okay, this is September, October, November, December. I can get back. Right. I was like, co, just give me a shot. And luckily, Colonel Lake don't get a lot of love.

But Colonel Lake played outside line back at UCLA. and came in and played strong safety, played our dime, played our nickel, moved the corner when I got hurt, played balled out the whole year. Wow. I was blessed that nobody else got hurt, Sherman, that year,

because anybody else got hurt in the secondary, he had to put me down. Yeah, I got an hour. You know, and so he gave me that green light. He left the light at the end of the tunnel for me. And I got to play in my first Super Bowl. We didn't win, you know, because in three Super Bowls I played in,

my quarterbacks through eight interceptions. So you don't win a lot of Super Bowls that way, right? But I at least got to play in it. And I still give Bill all the love because he gave me that opportunity to even try to come back, to motivate me to come back. So, you know, yeah, I heal fast normally, but Bill gave me the opportunity to get out there.

I only played like 18 plays in the game. But you know, back then, they weren't getting an 11 personnel a whole bunch. Right. I only went out there in sub package, and that's the only time I got on the field. Just talking about that, like, how different do you think you'd be in today's game, you know, where they, it's so much different. And I love, I love the old school and I love all, we were talking about before we got on, on screen about Mel Blunt and Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes and just the guys who really,

really fundamentally change this game and yourself included. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call

it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drum, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls,

we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more,

follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. But it's such a different game than you guys played. because of the way they protect the quarterback. Like, not to say they weren't protecting them back then, but back then you might have a quarterback half-concussed in that game. Might have been closed line two or three times in this game, dropped on his head. In today's game, boy, they're kicking half the defense off the game

if they land on him wrong, you know? So I just feel like their comfort level, and that's why the accuracy numbers are through the roof and pass-er rating is through the roof because they don't, they're so afraid to make a mistake. they'd rather throw the ball out of bounds 15 times than throw an interception. You know, I think back then, quarterbacks were like, hey, whatever it takes to win,

we're going to swing it around the yard and try to get a win. Now they're like, hey, if we don't win, cool, as long as I don't throw five interceptions. Yeah, I mean, I think a couple things sharing with that. Like, okay, first of all, you know, we sued the league to get free agency. So it started there, right? So we sued the league for free agency. And then the league was being very dishonest about CTE concussions, right?

So they got a lawsuit with that. And so where we at today is because of those two things, right? When you sue your employer, what is going to happen? Where they're going to openly protect themselves in some capacity, right? So that's where the league is at because of the, you know, quarterbacks are protected in the pocket, out of the pocket, receivers are protected over the middle of the field. I mean, you've got to let them catch two feet, turn, and then you can hit them.

Well, heck, it's two. Right. They already caught the ball. So, you know, so that's one. Secondly, man, you know, I know you watch ball. I mean, the fundamentals are gone. The fundamentals in football across the board is gone. It's not the same game that we played when you talked about, you know,

like everybody plays with the butt to the sideline. Right. But you could do it well, right? And you knew you could do it. with it. All these guys can't do it. Right. There's nobody backcaddles anymore. So it's the game is, it has changed. It's changed because we did have those lawsuits.

But what makes me more disappointed? And I'm glad the guys are making money. And let me say that. I'm glad they're making money. Right. That generational wealth they can give to their kids and they're, hopefully their kids and their next generation. I'm hoping they can keep doing that. But man.

Like, where is the professional? in the game. Like, where's the foundation built at the position? Like, I just don't see, like, you see the players come through and they might have two or three good years, but they ain't going to have eight, nine, ten. They don't even want to play ten years anymore, right?

It ate in, shoot, they got enough money for the rest of their lives in the next couple generations. So, you know, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. like thinking about like where the game was at, it's a little softer. And think about this. I don't know when you first came in, how long were you in training camp?

Two weeks, two and a half. When I first came in, when we was five weeks. Right. Banging. Two days. And I'm, you're going to do it. And then probably the end of my career, because I played 17,

at the end of my career, we were one on, one off, one on, one off. We were probably, about 20 days in the training camp. So, I mean, now is what, 16 days, 17 days of training camp. You got what, they got, how many times they can put on shoulder pads? What, 17 or something like, 13?

17 during the season, yeah, something like that. So they don't really get their ever hit and tackle, but you still should be able to form, we used to call it third up. Like, I'm going to be in my sweats. But if the rainback come out here, he'd get in his shoulder. Right. Protect yourself.

He's still getting it. And he better covered our ball up because we're going to be poking. Right. So. See, that was a thing I think we kept going is we were hitting. And we took so much pride as a defense because we had so many great players. I would think there's three or four Hall of Famers on that defense. I mean, Bobby Wagner being the most obvious one.

But like, we would tell Pete, don't run ones versus one. because we're not going to let them move the ball. We're hitting everything moving. And if you want that, that's why we lost so many practices and all that and all season because he would, he would, in OTAs, you know how they say, hey, let them catch the ball. And like, we're not built like that, Pete. We're not letting nobody catch this ball.

We're not letting. And if you're going to show highlights and do all the things you do and try to hype this offense up, we're going to break their necks to dislodge this ball. So if you want to avoid that, send us home. Send us, send the defense home. And then you guys can run normal practices. but while you're out here doing it like this

and you're trying to show us up, you're going to get somebody hurt. And that's what would happen. We'd be on that off-season and you got broken collar bones and broken arms and broken this. And it's like, all right. You know what, Sherman,

but you know what I hear from you, though? You guys took leadership in the locker room. Mm-hmm. Because it's your team. Yeah, I mean, right? Pete, the head coach, but it's your team. Mm-hmm. Right?

And that's how we felt. Like, we felt, yeah, Listen, Chuck Nullo was a coach, you know, Bill Carroll was a coach, but it's our team. It's our line. We're going to practice the way we need to practice to win. And if you don't like it, you know, Chuck was old school. So Chuck was like, she, hey, guys get hurt. He's going to go 10 yards down the field and huddle up.

It's like it's, you know, then Bill was. It's kind of the same way, because Bill's that, you know, most defensive coaches are kind of old-schoolish and it's some type of mindset, right? So Bill is kind of like that. But once you go to the OTA-1 and OTA-2s and OTA-3s, I mean, you know, it puts you in a different mindset because you're always in the building. Because, you know, when I first came in, what does it know? I mean, we had a whole bunch of our all-season. I did all my own workouts. OTAs, everybody's in the building.

every single day they're working out, they're doing the little things. So it is a different game. But what I like about you, you remind me, like, we could have played together. And I don't say that, I don't say that lightly. Like, when I, like, you got to be a baller to be able to play on that Steelers team or that Raiders team. Like, you've got to have that mindset, just like you're, you're a Legion of Boom. You've got to have a certain mindset to be a Legion of Boom.

You can't come in there soft-minded. it. You'll run them out the field. Like, make it up. You ain't the part of the Legion of Bow. We knocked. Right. You ain't built like that. No. So, I mean, so that's what I like about your teams, because we were so much alike. And when you started going from the different generations, every good defense all thought alike. No question.

You talked to Mel Blunt and he talked about the steel curtain. You talked to me and Joe Green. Because me, Joe Green was our defense line coach when I was there. that dude would mean he's like we should watch the 8mm film when I first came in the lead and the deep in the line disarmrored go he would throw that projector against the wall and you could hear it like

because you know Tony quiet Tony our room is right next to the line room Tony he talking to us but he ain't yelling Joe you can hear man it felt like like AC units were hitting walls I don't ask. This dude is crazy.

If he was any, as a coach, he was like that. As a player, I couldn't even imagine planning it to do. But being in a locker room with him, being in a locker, he's going to hold everybody in confidence. So I think all the great defenses over the generations all had a certain trait. And that one trait is, hey, we about that business. And it's a standard.

And it's a standard you live up to every, day. And I think that's the, whenever I talk to people and I talk to young guys and people want to be great defenses, I say, like, there's an accountability that has to be there that's inherent, that there's no disrespect that you got to disrespect anybody or anything like that. There's always love in it. It's always, hey, we have the same goal in mind. So when you're holding each other accountable, it ain't no MF this and you're because these are grown men you're dealing with. You know, you can't play like that and expect to get a good result. but men that desire the same thing and hold the same standard can accept accountability and coaching from one another.

They can accept, hey, I need better from you right there in order for us to get to where we're getting. You don't have to be like, hey, what are you doing on that play? It's like, hey, you just got to look at him. Like, come on now. You know, hey, we better than that, huh? Come on. Next play, I can't wait to see you on this next play because they got you messed up if they think that's about to happen again. Like, I know you better than that.

Right. And I think the standard that we held ourselves to every day, and I'll give Earl Thomas. promised a lot of credit for his practice habits because he practiced like his hair was on fire every day. And so when you see that and it's jumping off on tape, you have to match it. There's no, there's no like, hey, man, look at him. He's doing a great job. I hope he plays like this out of game day. It's like, no, I'm like that too.

Like, I'm there too. And I'm at the ball and we're punching at it. We're smacking at it. If he gets interception, I need to get two. And we're competing in that way within the scheme, within the confines of winning football. And when you do that, it just makes for a beautiful product. And I appreciate it being able to play with those guys and having like-minded people. And I'm sure you feel the same way with everybody in your building and the defenses you played on.

When guys are tied in going the same way, it's a tough thing to stop. It is. And like I said, man, I think there's so many different traits that carry old from generations, from every defense that when you start talking about these good defenses, everybody had the same mentality, the same mindset. But the one key is you policed yourself. I didn't need my coach to tell me, right? I police my, and we policed each other.

Like, we'd be like, hey, I mean, it's like, sometimes you get into arguments with each other. That's what families do, though, right? Family, hey, sometimes you get on each other, but you love each other at the end of the day. And that's what I've always seemed to learn from listening to the, the purple people eaters, the orange crush, the steel curtain, you know, I guess we're called the bullies of Baltimore, right?

You know, leads in a boom. All those good, great defenses over the course of time all have a certain trait. And that one trait is every time we come to work and we crossed our white line, it's about work. We're going to play like, we're going to practice just like we want to play on a consistent basis. And that's what, I mean, that's the reason I love walk you guys play because, man, you guys brought the wood. You brought, I mean, it was, watching you guys play was, like, reminded me of our teams. And when I, when I give love to other defenses, it's not no, it's not tongue in cheap. It's like true respect it because you don't see it that often.

It comes around once every 10 or so years, those type of defenses. and in the different generations, but man, the way you guys played, man, it was fun to watch some dudes, man. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. And that's why I get so frustrated with this man versus zone debate with people

where they're like, oh, this corner played all man. He was better. It's like, first off, not anybody in the league that's playing straight man in this day and age. There's not nobody. And it's not because they can't. It's because the rest of the defense can't. Like, there may be individual,

corners that can play man 90% of the time and be fine. But can your linebackers play man all the time? Can the safeties play man all the time? Because if they can't, then that's not good defense and nobody's going to put them in those positions to figure it out. And so, you know, that's one of the frustrating things because they'd be like, oh, you were one of the best zone corners. Like, no, I was just one of the best corners. Like, I played it all. I played whatever they called on the play. And I made it work. And I wanted to hear your thoughts on that. I think, because, look, so remember when we first started talking, you said, listen, I'm three, and cover three. If I'm the X, DB, I'm playing, I'm on the X side, right?

I'm playing man. It's better man. I'm up and outside. I'm man. Now, if he runs shallow cross, I ain't chasing him, right? I'm crawling across. But he's going to be reduced split if he's going to run shallow cross. Right.

Or he's going to be, you know, that's the only way he can. get to it. So to me, having those arguments about zone like, you know, when people say zone, I said, listen, great defensive backs can do it all. I can play as if like, I didn't play 100% man to man.

I play man zone. I did it my way. The great players can do both. And the great defense can do both. It's hard to just say, oh, We're all zoned. Well, you're going to be all covered two? And display cover two all day?

You can't do that. So I don't think people, when people make that statement, I don't think they understand football. Because if they don't know. There's versions, even though you're inside of, even though you might, it might be a zone call, you got a concept of man somewhere on that zone call.

Unless it's a condensed split. If it was condensed split, then we're probably playing the true zone, right? Because we're backing up a little bit. We're going to let it be. that like unfold and never going to match it. Right. That's other than that,

there's always a version of of playing the zone, of playing man inside of each one of their defense, each defense. So, you know, I'm not a fan. And when you get to third down. Saying what that is,

what I'm a fan of is ballers. Can you play ball? Can you play deep? Can you make play? What I really like is like making plays on the ball. Like when the ball goes up, that's my ball. and ink the receiver ball.

My mindset was always like that. Interception first, PbU second, tackled he catch it. That's how I thought. Me too. Right. And the great, to me, when you talk to the great deep,

Mel Blunt, that was the same way. Limbarnie, the same way. Dick LeBow, the same way. All the great defensive backs have that mindset where that ball, mine, man, when it goes in the air, I got the same right to the ball as a receiver. I can't climb on his back and all that stuff.

I get it. But I still got the same right. So what we used to teach was, hey, Tony used to teach us, if you make contact with the receiver the same time the ball get there, that is not pass interference. And I was like, really? So we used to do a drill on the big tackling dummy where he throws a ball right on the outside edge

and we used to come up with our shoulder pan. and going through the ball. Right. And so it gets used to the contact because normally BBs drop the ball when they're making contact with the receiver and trying to catch the ball at the same time. We used to do that drill over and over and over.

We did too. You did the drill? I mean, I love that. I don't ever see anybody do that drill anymore. Yeah, Chris Richard. Chris Richard had us do it all the time. And it would be the point of contact drill or a point of whatever,

or the point of contact, whatever they call it, point of attack. And either you go for the PBU or you go for the pick, depending on the time you make it. Right. But go for the pick until you can't. Right. Yeah.

I mean, see, that to me is, that's how you get good really deep. DBs who can make the contact, still get interceptions. Most DDs get PBEs. And they'd be talking about people. Listen, I love Peebies, but I say game changers? get tigs.

Right. Like, when the ball touched your hand, you got the pit. So in today's game, what DB has you like? Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers,

and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella a band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the story. stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Has you enthralled and infatuated with his game and how he's playing a position with the way you think about it? I like, obviously I like Sertan. Like, I mean, long, can run, can make plays. I mean, I like paddles too. I like Woolen, you know, with Seattle. I like Gonzalez. I like Mitchell. I like Stingley, down in Houston. There's a lot of players that I individually like, but the defense, like Mike brought that, like, that dog to back to Seattle. But watching Houston Texan defense,

like them dudes, them dudes remind me of you guys. Because they was knocking cats out. I was like, man, this is, This is Leasing the Boom 2.0 because they're hitting everybody moving. Mm-hmm. I mean, and so, I mean, I like watching those type of games where defenses are flying to a ball and laying cats out. And if they get a flag, they get a flag.

Like, so, that's not going to detour me that I'm going to play fast. You know, but so I've got a group of players that I really like to watch, but I really like to watch complete defenses like just male offenses. because it's a little harder to do in the day's game because everybody is overly protected on offense, right? So it's harder for the DVs to do that. And then they just got to figure out how the rest are calling the game that day and how they're going to play inside of the game. Right.

And that's the hard part because it's so subjective in this day and age. But if you're building a perfect modern-day DB, what are three traits that are non-negotiable? Ooh My three traits And nongociales Toughness Mm-hmm

I guess Grid is kind of like Toughness So Toughness Uh My medocable Toughness

Short I can't Uh Chew That's a great question You can encompass anything. You're going to encompass football IQ, ball skills, speed, athleticism. So the toughness, the football not playing in the box, sir, like if that makes sense.

I know it's not a one word or one trait. But a lot of times we live in this box and the defense tells us this is X, Y, Z, this is, you know, You got your one-third corner, you got two-to-one, two displays, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we live in that. Right. The great ones don't live in there. You're right. Right.

And so you try to find those guys who understand football, but at the end of the day, football is a simple game. It's not easy to play at a high level on a consistent basis, right? If you go back to, and I'm going to, I'll give you the third treating it. once I make a statement. But go back to Pop Warner when we play Pop Warner football. The football goes to the right side. Every player's over on the right side with the ball. And as we grow, especially defensively,

your coaches are going to say, I need you in the middle of the field or your defensive end. You can't fold early. You can't do this. You can't do that. I need you here. I need you there. I need this.

And we get some, most of the players, 90% of those players are going to get locked in and saying, I have to do this because my coach is telling me to do this. But the real good ones, sir, got a filter in the head. I remember Rob Russ, a guy told me he said, hey, listen, coaches are going to say a lot of different things to you. Listen to them, look at them, smile at them.

And in your head, if you want to say, shut the half up. Say it in your head, but don't say it to the coach. And he said, but always smile at him. So, man, anytime I thought you'll say something

that I really didn't agree with, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I got you, in my head door, I'm like, F that, like, I'm going out to have to be called. So to me is like, try to find that guy

that can play outside the box and make plays for you. That's one of the things you're always looking for. Then I think thirdly, ball skills. Because the balls matter. I mean, getting the football for your team matters.

So, PbUs are great. But, man, getting interceptions changes the dynamic of the football game because if you don't score, it shortens the field for your offense with the probabilities of them scoring increases. Right. And that's the part I think that's going away from playing DB in the league, at least corner. Like, they're not taking a ball away at the level that it used to be taken away.

When they take bad angles, I mean, if you really watch it, if I'm really being honest, when I'm watching games week in and week out, because, you know, I call the game for the rabness. And I'm watching the games, I really get frustrated of guys not knowing how to play. Like, don't you see your angle? Do you not see where you're at?

Do you not know, like, your split rules? Do you not, like, you don't see that? And then in their heads, and then obviously they don't because they do it over and over and over. but the problem is, Sherim, if you think about it, there's a lot of young coaches out there. Not saying that they're bad coaches, right? I'm saying they're still good,

but I learn from all my OGs. There are older coaches that have been through the rigors, that been through it, and they taught me all the nuggets that they learned over the course of their time frame, like being a human being. A 30-year-old ride and a 60-year-old ride, I'm way wiser at 60 than I was at 30.

right that's what we get and i think that's what happens in football that's what's happening in football because we've gone so young in coaches but we're young in the lead too right so you know starters or if you're a first round or second rounder i mean you're starting you're playing you're getting a lot of reps and heck i know i mean when i came in the league man i was i was getting bond over bagdad i mean i was getting got you can't you can't get got these days i was learning I was learning, but I was still getting got. And it took me a little while to keep going. I mean, if I was into the league today,

they were like, oh, that dude's a bust. That part. He's a bust. Because we don't give these kids, like I always say, you've got to give them three years. The third year should be the year. You should see glimpses and flashes, the first two.

That third year should be that. And some guys, you can see it in the second year, right? Right. I think we should give kids at least three years to, like, try to get through this whole thing and to learn the game. But also, hopefully the coaches learn more and they can give it to the players. You know, my biggest thing with the really good players are that, man, just don't live in the box, bro.

Like when you talk to Troy Palomalo, you talk to Edry, they didn't live in no box. and they don't have a no box I remember I was in shoot we were playing C well we're playing the Raiders when I was with the Ravens we covered three Tim Brown was a shallow cross

and I'm covered three now I'm going to take the shallow cross Ridge Gannon like this though I took off and by the time I got to the other side of the numbers he hit me in the chest with the ball touchdown it was like a 20-yard

touchdown I cut in the sideline And then Marvin was like, you can't jump that. I said, coach, he was looking at him. He was looking out in. So I'm like, hey. So, you know, to me, getting those players who still know how to play and are willing to play inside of their system, those are those generational players.

Like players like you can make plays, like the Legion of Boom, the guys who play with you, who can make plays. Those are the type of players you're trying to find. And they're hard to find. Yeah, they're really hard to find because that's a sensitive balance because like that's why people don't understand. They're like, you guys were just playing cover three.

It's like you don't understand how many times we broke that to create interceptions. Like, hey, it's cover three, but hey, two and three are vertical. It's three by one. Two is vertical. The overrout took the safety. The safety bit on that. Two is wide open. I leave one wide open to go pick the seam of two.

Not because that's the way it's written. And because the way it's written, the safety probably should have been leaning there and then, you know, force the ball somewhere else. But that's not how it always happens on the field. And to be able to see it and react to it in real time and correct the mistake and create a turnover in a position where it would have usually been a touchdown because of the mistakes. That's what difference makers do. And I want to ask you about something else before, because I want to take your whole day up.

What do you think of this whole Max Crosby thing? Like he was a Baltimore Raven for like five seconds. Now, Trey. And I did a podcast talking about what the race. Ravens got, you know, and how good he can be with the Ravens if Nandi Madi, Maddibakey comes back. I'm like, that, I was blown away, because I didn't see the news, and then I got a text from one of my dudes, and like, Max felt a physical.

I'm like, what? I'm like, well, that's crazy. I mean, it's just, I mean, a very unfortunate for the Ravens and for Max, because I think Max wanted to have a kind of refreshing. moment to go somewhere else and play football. So that's, you know, I know it's frustrating for him. Unfortunately, hopefully he finds he gets healthy again, whatever it might have been, whatever his body's going through, he gets healthy again.

Just unfortunate that the Ravens didn't get him because if the Ravens would have got him and I don't know where Nomdey Matabake is at with his recovery from what his neck injury. And if he came back, oh, man, that defense would have been crazy. Did you hear what happened? No. They picked up Trey Hendrickson. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, yes. I saw Trey. I saw Trey. So, so Trey had, he's had 10 more sex than Max over since 2019. So I think that's, but they had to keep those picks.

That was when they lost Lindenbaum and they lost, uh, likely and they lost all these people. I think that's what, what cost him. I think they, they had a, they could have went either way with Max Crosby. I mean, they knew what he was, they knew where he was in his recovery coming back, regardless. Like, they had already talked to Eletros. need to bring him in to see it. But I think once free agency started to go and they started to see that, hey, Trey Hendrickson's market is going to be what it is and we could potentially get him and then

keep our picks. Oh, you think they were, they saw it? That's what people are saying. Who? You know, because this is what I said, this is what I said when I thought the deal was going through, what they're going to get max. Because I said, the only way it makes sense. to get Max if Nanda Mada Biki is coming back.

But if Nami is not coming back, you need a detackle, you're going to need a center, you're going to need another tight end, you need another receiver, right? You're going to need, I mean, the interior defensive front rushing-wise, rush-wise, was lacking last year.

So I was a little surprised about that. unfortunate, but I that's a interesting way of looking at it though. Like if they saw how it was unfolding because my thing is giving up those pigs

because you need them. You need them. You need those pigs. The only way you give them up is that Annami is coming back, but if Nami was or he's still question marked, you still need you still need office alignment.

I mean, Lindenbaum, he was the anchor of the center outside here. I mean, Ronnie Stanley, I get that. But, you know, Linden Mall was a baller. Likely leaves. You know, so, I mean, it's, it would be, that's, that's an interesting take because I saw that. But I never thought about it like that. Yeah, that's the way it's being perceived.

And that's the way my brain is seeing it is saying, hey, we could get him, we could get a comparable player. I think they think Trey Henderson, a guy who's been in their division, who has been very productive, great player. comparable to Max Crosby. You can argue with somebody else about who's more valuable. But I think it's close enough that they say, hey,

we keep multiple first round picks that we can use to strengthen our team and get the same player without losing the picks like that. That's a home run. And all we got to do is have a little bit of a black eye in the public for a second. Like we got to deal with a little bit of turmoil that, hey, we backed out of a deal

and our word isn't as good as it used to be. Right. Yeah. I mean, I live with that. I was, I was shocked that the Ravens were going to give up two peaks because it's not what they do. That's not who they are. So I was shocked about that. Then I was like, okay, Crosby, I get it. Dude's a baller.

He got that dog inning. He can be a closer because if you look at the last several years, they've lost a lot of games in the fourth quarter where they didn't make plays for them. So I kind of get it. But if Nambi's not coming back, now that's a head scratcher move for me. but I kind of like what you're saying if they saw how everything was unfolding in the free agency market

and Trey, yes, Trey is inside the division already. They know what they're getting because the one thing that lacked from the Ravens last year was PATHrush, consistently. Right. I mean, didn't have it consistently. Now, they got Green, Mike Green, who I think is going to be a really good player. But then if you bring,

you bring Henderson in, and I was thinking like, you bring Crosby in, you got Namede, you got another couple of young guys on the other side, even Van Nuoy, then you got some players and your defense solid again.

Right. But I like that, I like that. But you know, one thing I like at the end of the day, they keep their picks. They keep their picks. And they need them this year. And they need them to be competitive. All right. Well, I appreciate you, Rod. This meant a lot to me, man.

this was a great conversation. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I appreciate you joining me. I don't want to take up the rest of your day. I think we can talk to five hours about football. Yeah, I tell you what, man. Anytime, bro. Anytime.

I got much respect for you, bro. I love what you do. I love you on TV. I love your takes on TV. Anytime you want me on your show, bro. You hit me up. I'm on. I appreciate that.

We definitely going to hit you up because I love to do it. We can talk ball all over day. I want to do this again. The one thing I tell my, You know, I told my wife for all the time, I said, I know a little bit about a lot, but I know a lot about football. I know a lot. And you're a brilliant football mind, and I love to hear your thoughts about it.

So we got to do this again, no question about that. Yeah, most love for you, brother. As always, you guys could be anywhere in the world, but you're here with us. We had an incredible guest, and we're going to have incredible guests all offseason long. So stay tuned. Hit that sub button if you knew. Appreciate you. Hey, guys, it's us and the Jonas brothers.

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