The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Rodgers/McCarthy Feud, Lakers Desperation, Patriots' Plan and NBA Regular Season Woes

Episode Date: April 5, 2019

Colin goes deeper into the Bleacher Report about the former Green Bay Packers HC Mike McCarthy and QB Aaron Rodgers, why the Los Angeles Lakers are in desperation mode, a possible plan for the New England Patriots, and why he is starting to not care about the NBA regular season. Guests include Tyler Dunne, Mark Medina, Rob Parker, Christian Laettner, and Jason McIntyre.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app,

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Ah, this is The Hurd. We've got a loaded Friday show. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Los Angeles. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1. Man that I have a power night of sleep last night. Nine solid. Joy Taylor is joining me on a Friday.

Good morning. Oh, Lord. It's crushed it. last night. What does that mean when you get excited about a full night's sleep? Don't you wake up every morning and try to figure out in your head how much you slept? I do every day. Sometimes. I'm obsessed by it. I'm obsessed by sleep.

There's like an app on your phone that can tell you how much you sleep and how you slept. No, I just, depending on how much you rolled over and stuff. I literally grab my phone right before I go to bed and I think, okay, take 15 minutes off. Last night, I just power slept. I got so much energy. We got a great show today. So I want to start with this. I always tell young sportscasters, because I go speak to colleges, I'm meeting a kid tomorrow.

I always tell them the same thing. In 2019, you don't have to be controversial. Tell the truth. It's controversial. Nobody wants to hear the truth. Everybody's PC. Even the guys I compete against all over the country at this job, it's Captain Safe Take.

Just follow, go to Twitter, and say obvious stuff, and don't ruffle any feathers. Eight, nine years ago, I was critical of Aaron Rogers. He was the golden child in the NFL. You couldn't touch him. I got massive blowback.

I remember one time I didn't get blowback. I had Peter King on it. I said, Peter, I'm watching his body language. I'm hearing things from former players. And Peter King's really connected. I'm like, the guy's a diva. He's part of the underachieving problem here. And Peter's well-sourced.

And Peter's like, I'm not hearing it. And I don't have as good as sources as Peter King, because he literally, that's all he does. And I remember getting off the air that day thinking, am I missing something? I'm watching him. I'm hearing him. But I always trust my eyes and I always trust my sources.

And I stayed on him. And it's so amazing because the last six months, it's all coming out. It's all coming out. No more denial. No more. You're a heda. Take your cheese head off. It's the reality.

That article yesterday, I thought it overwhelmingly clobbered Mike McCarthy because it unveiled new information on Mike McCarthy. It was a very well done article, very well sourced. A lot of quotes. Not all anonymous. Aaron Rogers, I mostly knew it. So it didn't strike me as new information. This is what I felt about Aaron for years.

He's aloof. He's not a great leader. He needs to grow up. He's overly petty. But there is a moment in this article because the story broke 10 minutes before our show yesterday. So I consumed the article speed reading. And I missed one nugget of. of this article, and I think it's incredibly damning for Aaron Rogers.

Tyler Dunn reports that Mark Murphy, who's the CEO of the Packers, he's a Harvard guy. Mark's played for the Redskins for years. Mark Murphy's, you know, super smart guy. Really, really, one of the smarter guys that runs any team in the NFL, that he called Aaron Rogers after they hired Matt LaFleur. And he said, don't be the problem. And he repeated it to Aaron Rogers. Don't be the problem.

Murphy, it says, is tired of the diva stuff relating to Rogers. Folks, his own family's taking shots at him. Grow up. Own it. Young sportscasters, trust your eyes and trust your sources. Don't back down. I was right on Tebow. That's not a starting quarterback.

And Aaron Rogers, I've never been more right in anything. When I read that yesterday, after I got off the show, don't be the problem. Oh, okay. Okay. By the way, the article continues, here's an important non-development regarding the 12 hours or so since the report. The Packers have said nothing at all in response to various claims and contentions that cast Aaron in a not-so-favorable light. They're worn out by him. worn out by him.

The story continues, says Ryan Grant, former Packer. Aaron's always had a chip on his soldier with Mike. This is incredible. Since 2005, 14 years, because Aaron was mad that Mike passed on him when he was with the Niners. They took Alex Smith and Aaron's from NoCal. You're still holding that grudge? I mean, what? So you can't deny it anymore.

You can't deny it. Put the cheesehead down for five minutes. Be a grown-up. Take off, put them a palm palms down and do a better job if you live in Green Bay of actually reporting on a team and not supporting it. Not rooting, but reporting. This stuff, you can't deny it anymore.

You can't. Listen, one of the greatest attributes of Tom Brady. And for years and years, Brady and Aaron Rogers were compared, and I always said they're not even the same personality. Aaron's much more big Ben, much more passive aggressive, much more heavy in a locker room. But one of the great qualities of Brady is that he makes really bad plays. He's had pick sixes in Super Bowls. Tom makes big mistakes. He doesn't have the arm strength or the ability to escape things.

Tom's made massive misuse, big games, small games. And he's had fights with his coach. He's had yelling matches with his. coordinators. But you know what Brady has the ability to do that Aaron doesn't? Get over it. Quickly. It's called maturity. It's called being an adult, not holding grudges. That's what separates Brady from Rogers. Leadership, not talent. Tom's thrown terrible pick sixes and Super Bowls. And the next drive, he's eight for eight. He gets over stuff. He fought with Belichick. This year, got along great. He's had screaming matches with Josh Men,

McDaniels. I'm not saying a little bit of Aaron's chip on the shoulder is all bad. I like the chip. But it can't be a personal peeing match. Like, grow up. Get over it. I mean, 10-year grudges, that's just chain, smoke, and hate. You got to move on. That's beating you up. It's not beating anybody else up. McCarthy's over it. You're not. And there's another quote from Bleacher report from a former Packer Scout that says, Aaron's become worn. down and bitter about everybody's expectations and the type of leader he should be. He's Brett Fav 2.0. He used to say I'll never be like that guy.

He literally is. So I thought the report yesterday would just a bombshell on McCarthy, and I thought it told me mostly everything I knew about Aaron Rogers. And I've been told, by the way, entrusted my sources and eyes for 10 years, family, teammates, you know, they've said Greg Jennings is not a hater. He was totally validated in the article. But if this puppy was bad in 2005, I mean, that's on errand. Get over it.

Move on. Mature. Lead. That's just not acceptable. That's just embarrassing. That's one of those things you wake up and read the article. And if you're the guy, you're like, man, I look like a kid. And you can't have a kid running a franchise.

Let's shift to this. words are important. If I said to you, this is critical. Critical's not the same as, oh, this is desperate. Like critical is a doctor says, listen, you have got to improve your diet over the next two years

or you could have some physical issues. Desperate is, we got to get you a new heart or you're dead in six hours. Critical is important. It is important that you eat more vegetables. Tell my son, much of the disease starts in the mouth, brush your teeth two, three times a day. That is critical. Desperate is, oh, we've got to give you a new lung.

Call the doctor immediately. You know, when people go to the hospital and they have to have an emergency surgery, that's desperate. The Lakers are not in critical condition, according to the articles I'm reading today. they're in desperate shape. This story from Brian Winhorst says something. Historically, LeBron has sort of been involved, but not all the way involved, because he doesn't necessarily want to be known as the guy who couldn't close the deal in free agency. He doesn't want it all on him.

LeBron has perfected the art of influencing deals without taking ownership of them. According to Winhorst, in all honesty, he's been recruiting players to come and try to be in Space Jam this summer. He can't close the deals. Some of the top players, one in particular, they don't want to be punked in the movie by LeBron. Optics Matter for Stars. This is a thing, folks. When you call yourself the chosen one and the king, you have elevated yourself among even other great players. Paul George chose Applebee's and O KC in Westbrook over LeBron. Kawhi Leonard reportedly, more interesting. interested in the clifers than the Lakers.

Just think about that for a couple minutes. I saw an anonymous scout said yesterday, the athletic, very fine subscription-based publication, surveyed 12 execs. Too many question marks said one of the scouts on the Lakers. Magics destroyed the place. They got rid of DeAngelo Russell and Julius Randall for what, Rondo? and to get out of Timothy Mavsgov's contract, I don't think it's fair to say that magic has ruined the place.

But six months ago, they had a plan. Let's get LeBron. Today's Lakers have hope. That's not a plan. There is a very real wheel of possibility. There are eight to nine players that are available to the Lakers, from Zion to Kyrie to Kauai to Jimmy Butler to Kimball Walker to Boogie AD, Clay Thompson, Kevin Durant. My feeling is, Boogie is theirs if they want him, but I do not think he makes the Lakers a better place.

He's combustible and somewhat talks it, albeit talented, but he only works in an organization like the warriors who are so rock solid that his nonsense doesn't become a tipping point and sway the boat off course. Boogie does not work with the current Lakers who lack leadership. but I'm reading stories and the word I keep hearing from LeBron, this offseason is crucial. No, it is not. It is desperate. And you got to do better in that wheel of possibility than Boogie Cousins. All right, good stuff.

All sorts of good stuff today. By the way, we're handing out a trophy on today's show. And I'm not talking one of those little bowling trophies you get in high school because you bowl like a 130. I'm talking about a massive trophy. This thing is gigantic. What for? Journalism. This should have heard is defined by Big J. journalism.

And we're giving out a journalism award to somebody that's coming on our show today. Oh, okay. We're not giving it to ourselves. No, I mean, we might as well. But this time we're giving it to somebody else. Okay. It's a massive expensive trophy. That'll happen the next phase.

15 minutes. And also, this is interesting. You know, Joey and I have talked about this. There are certain topics I'm just over. Like the topic I'm totally done with, hey, can the Warriors flip a switch? Yeah, I'm not going to do that topic. The other topic I've told my staff I'm worn out on, hey, is Tom Brady going to retire after this year? Who knows? Let's let it play out. But the newest Tom Brady retirement story has a fascinating twist. It's really interesting. I consumed it this morning and it makes a lot of success.

That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed the game. morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker

room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

care games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're a good person because you're a free. Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, as we have real conversations about

healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud.

But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness. professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't

feel like you don't feel like. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face like, up and smile. That means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can, like, I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. By the way, we have Christian Leitner on the show later, which is so fun. I was telling Joy the other day. Zion Williamson's, I was trying to think of the last college player, which I literally would run to a TV to watch. I think it's Christian Leitner. Patrick Ewing, so Christian Leitner's on the show later. Zion's out of the tournament, but he's always a topic. And by the way, in less than 10 minutes, Tyler Dunn's going to be on the show, who wrote that Green Bay story, and we're presenting him with something massive and impressive.

and he deserves all of it. I want to say this, though. I'm over the, is Tom Brady retiring stuff soon? There's two things I will not use his topics. Number one, can NBA teams flip a switch 40 years watching? Answer's always yes. Number two is, when's Brady going to retire? Who gives a rip?

Enjoy it? I don't have any insight on that. But this is interesting. Greg Bedard covers the Patriots for the Boston Sports Journal. And there are people in the latest story that have not ruled out the possibility of Tom, playing one more year, winning it and saying, you know, Sainara, I'm out of here. But there's a wrinkle to this one that I'm just going to throw out. And I appreciate Greg doing this because it's real work and it's thoughtful.

Let's say Tom plays this year and they win. And by the way, they're going to be better than last year. We know that with their draft picks. We know that with their roster. Belichick is telling people, I've told you this in the last couple of weeks. He really does feel like his roster is going to be younger, more athletic. more nimble, more dexterity, more flexibility next year. They kind of felt like this year was a regroup year.

I mean, Gronk wasn't really available and crucial until late in the year. So this story goes on to say, listen, Belichick after this year, after this upcoming year, it's going to have the most cap space he's ever had, $86 million. That's like New York Jets level. That's a ton of cap space. And there are going to be some free agents like an Edelman that you could move off of, a Kyle Van Nuoy, good players, but you're not going to re-sign them. And if Brady won again, there is this sense that if your Belichick said the story,

and you want to walk away by setting up the next guy, this is the way to do it. You could handpick your quarterback, a ton of cap space, very little dead weight to clean break. Because the story also talks about the nuclear option, that if New England wins big this year, and doesn't re-sign free agents, and either Tom walks away or they convince him, they can tank the season and get Trevor Lawrence from Clemson, who is in my opinion, in my sources' opinions, the best quarterback to come out of college since Andrew Luck and people, and I agree with this, think he's better than Andrew Luck.

I do as a talent. I think he has a better arm than Andrew Luck. And you know how high I hold Andrew Luck. I think he's better than Andrew Luck. I do. I always said, I love Sam Darnold. He's not Andrew Luck. Trevor Lawrence is all-time unique. I saw him a year and a half ago in high school at a camp in San Diego with the 11 best high school quarterbacks in the country. He was so much better than all of them. It wasn't close. He looked like a junior in college at 17 years old. Last year, he took apart Alabama. This kid is all-time special,

and he's supposed to be a good kid. And with Davos, when he runs a real program, makes people accountable. He's a great kid. He would be the number one pick in the NFL draft this year as a freshman. Without a doubt, that's not even arguable. He'd be the number one pick. He wouldn't have been the number one pick out of high school, but he would have been a top 10 pick out of high school.

That's how good he is. And I'm not joking here. So this story says, Brady plays. Brady retires. 88 million in cap space. Free agents, you don't have to resign. Clean break the Josh McDaniels. Tank the season to get Trevor Lawrence as he comes out as a junior. It's interesting. The timing is perfect. You move away. You set it up for the longtime assistant Josh McDaniel, who you're very close with. Brady gets his stuff. Josh gets his team. Belichick gets his legacy. And it would be the 20th year in Foxborough. A nice round number. and you could tank in New England. I mean, good God, the Sixers

it was bad for seven years, six years. They've bought so much equity with that fan base. You could easily sell them the plan. I think it's just interesting. I'm not saying it's right. I think it's interesting, and I appreciate the effort by the reporter that they put in for this.

And as a long time, a New England supporter, I would fully back this plan. I thought we weren't supposed to root for it. Oh, not that I root. I'm just saying there are relationships I have that I mean I I openly root for things so I'm not judging you're you're openly a petty which I think is very big of you to admit that yeah you're on the air you often say you're very petty I'm a bit of a grudge holder yeah it's okay as long as you're not my quarterback I'm okay with the news no no no no turn on the news this is the herd line news it's pretty obvious that Jeannie Bus has a lot of respect for Luke Walton but through all the chaos genie has made made one thing clear, his future with the Lakers will be decided by Magic Johnson. She was asked directly about Walton's job during a live podcast at Loyola Marymount University

and had this answer. In terms of basketball decisions, I will always defer to Magic. You know, he's brought a vision of the kind of team that we're going to build and the vision for what Lakers basketball will be. You can see that. But we're still building that roster that will get us there. Well, this is true, by the way. This is what I've been told that she's deferring to him.

Well, isn't that what she should do? Yeah, but the question comes, is Magic qualified to beat somebody running an NBA franchise? We know he's a great player. We know he's a great guy. We know he knows how to run business. This is a real job. Well, he did land LeBron James. Yes, he did.

That's very fair. Home run. But the rest of it, there's a lot of stories coming from legitimate. reporters that it's man overboard. I am not disagreeing with that, and all of the evidence would point to it's quite a dysfunctional situation. Right. However, I think we probably need to give this just a little bit more time.

All right, that's fair. He did land LeBron James. Okay. We are not through the free agency period yet. We're not through the draft. All right. There's a lot of moving parts and a lot of things that could happen. Okay.

So I don't want to move too quickly with the magic doesn't know what he's doing things. No, by the way, I also didn't think it's fair to say earlier in the show I started when the guy said, you know, magic ruined the place. That's way too harsh. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's outlandish to say that. The Lakers were not in a good space when Magic took over. Let's not forget what happened here. It's not like he took over the Warriors and now of a sudden they're missing the playoffs.

No, he didn't take over Alabama football. He took over Kentucky football. I mean, he didn't take over a home run situation. I know we tend to just kind of focus on the now. Yeah. But you can, you know, they have the records and stuff, like, still available online. Magic did not create this situation at all. Now, there were some moves, obviously DeAngelo Russell and, you know, Julius Randall,

there's some moves here that you could examine and say that they weren't the best moves. You could also do that for every single president and GM in the NBA. So I just think it needs a little bit more time. I do think that this offseason is critical. And I like that Jeannie is being very upfront about they're not in the place that they need to be. Yeah. Because that's important. So sticking with the Lakers, apparently getting star play.

to come to L.A. He's not the only thing LeBron is struggling with when it comes to recruitment. Brian Winhorst said on the jump yesterday, LeBron has perfected the art of influencing deals without taking ownership of them. Of course, he will reach out to free agents. The ability for him to close deals, that's different. He's been recruiting players to come and be in Space Jam with him this summer, and he hasn't been able to close some of those deals.

Some of the top guys, he wants to come and be with him in the movie. Interesting. Now, remember, Jordan had Barkley, Mugsy Boggs, Patrick Numer. Sean Bradley, Larry Johnson. But Michael, Michael, as great as Michael was, Michael didn't constantly remind you he was above you. Like Michael had his boys.

By the way, Michael's best friend, B.J. Armstrong, I mean, he had a lot of, like, dudes that he was tight with. MJ has a completely different reputation in the league than LeBron. No question. For a lot of different reasons. And I'm sure everybody didn't have a positive relationship with Michael, Jordan, which, like, you can say that about anyone on Earth. But I do think it's interesting that he's having some issues.

I told you, I don't think that this is the, this is very unfortunate timing to have to shoot this film coming off of this season. And obviously it's not going to come out for a few years, but it's still, it's still like one more thing that LeBron said yes to that is now on his plate in a situation where he's rehabbing from his first major injury and coming off missing the playoffs, his first season in L.A. I wondered about this. I really did. and I'm very interested to see who ends up being in the movie because none of his Lakers' teammates were involved in any of these current projects that he had going on. His best friend's D. Wade.

Well, I think Wade will be in the movie. Yes, I think Wade is in the movie. Yeah, I mean, that'll happen, but it's like, it can't be a buddy cop movie. I mean, is MJ in the movie? Oh, hell no. So it's just a complete... Yeah, well, there you go. I don't know.

It's an interesting story. It is. Finally, Mike McCarthy is the fifth. defending himself against the bombshell Tyler Dunn article. One of the accusations made is that McCarthy missed team meetings to get a massage. McCarthy said that story is absurd. He told NFL Network, I wouldn't even know where to start and stop with the article. But to say that I skip the team meeting for a massage is utterly absurd.

I have a massage scheduled tomorrow. And I can promise you I will not miss my primary responsibility of picking up my two kids from school. All I can say is I can confirm through my own source that this massage, Saug Therapist was in the building. McCarthy regularly marketed this person and encouraged others to use this therapist. So this therapist was not like a hidden artifact in the building. It was a well-known person. I need to know more about this story.

Because seriously, I mean, coaches do a lot of standing. Yes. Back issues. Was he in a situation where he was in pain? And that's why he wasn't in the meeting? Like, what happened there? I feel like that let's find out. Enjoy it with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. I've said it for years. Major League Baseball Media, there's a few exceptions like Tom Verducci. Is a lot of romanticizing and not enough actual reporting. NBA basketball, there's some really good friends of mine who do reporting. I like Mark Stein a lot.

And there's other people I like, you know my Chris Brousard thing. But there is a lot of fawning. but in football there's real teeth to reporting. And Joy, as you and I, this is not just about opinions on this show. We are journalists. You consider yourself a journalist. I am not a journalist. Oh, I think you're more of a journalist.

Do you have sources? I have sources. Of course you do. You're a journalist. I know you do because you tell me stuff that I don't know. So you're a journalist. Now, we may be small J journalism. You're definitely small J.

Because we're not in locker rooms. But you have a bunch of... Well, I would say also, you know, we don't do the vetting so much and the, you know, We don't have our hand in the dirt. And we acknowledge that. But we are, because we're the home of great journalism, we are handing out something. Tyler Dunn wrote a punitive, tough, well-sourced story on the Packers that took months to do. And I was just so fond of it.

We are presenting for the first time ever. Bring that out, please. A trophy. He wins our first ever Big J Award to acknowledge excellent and hard-hitting sports journalism. Let's hear it. Tyler Dunn and let's bring him on. be the coward global satellite network. This has to be a career highlight for this young man.

First of all, look at the size of that damn thing. You deserve a ton of credit. By the way, these stories are difficult because I've never done anything to this level. But you, did you call, let me start with this. Did you call Aaron and say, listen, I'm writing this story. Would you like to respond to it? How did that call go? Well, thanks for having me, Colin.

I appreciate it. You know, the approach to this story, and it was about four or five months in the works, I guess, when I started calling people and having covered the Packers for the Journal Sentinel, a lot of players, a lot of coaches, a lot of scouts, a lot of people in the Rolodex. I wanted that perspective of 45, 50 people,

as many people as possible, to just figure out what happened? I mean, how do you get from point A to point B? How do you get from dominating, doing whatever you want offensively to what you saw last year and the coach being fired. So that was the goal to get people to not have one singular agenda one way or another. We're going to hear the Aaron Rogers story. We're going to hear the Mike McCarthy story.

Let's get everybody. And then if there are things to check in on, things to confirm, let's hear it from both of those individuals. No luck getting either tried on both. But I think that to me, the better story is that cross-section of everybody involved to figure out the answer to that question. Just what happened. And those are the two people that just keep coming up. CEO there is Mark Murphy. I think he, I could be wrong, he's a Harvard guy.

He's a highly educated guy, very smart, played for a while. I remember him as a player, actually. And he kind of runs the Packers. So he had to make a choice here. I mean, he had to make a choice. You're not going to fire Aaron Rogers, so he fires the coach. There's a moment in here, and I think this is great, where he went to Aaron when he announced the new coach and he said, hey, with Matt LaFleur, don't be the problem. Don't be the problem.

When do you believe Murphy could be five years ago started realizing Aaron was difficult? You know what's interesting, Colin, is when Mark Murphy became the president of the Packers, I mean, remember that time. Brett Barb's trying to take his job back. And it's Mark Murphy, Mike McCarthy, Ted Thompson, standing by Aaron Rogers saying, this is our guy. And when everybody is telling Mark Murphy, what are you doing? I mean, Brett Farb just took you to the NFC championship game. You're 13 and 3.

He was unbelievable. He stood by Aaron Rogers. I think he really wanted to be a president who wasn't involved. You know, extremely approachable guy. One of the nicest team presidents that you'd meet, a Western New Yorker. And I think that over time, he just wanted Ted Thompson to run the show, run the football team, and it was on Ted Thompson, really. He never saw the forest from the trees. At least that's what my reporting took me.

A lot of people believe that. He was so involved with the scouting, so involved with the pro days, the draft, building, draft and developed. He never saw this big picture problem that Mike McCart, the Inter-Anne Rogers really couldn't work together. and that it shouldn't have lasted a decade plus. So he never stepped in. Now, I think health had a factor to play as well. I mean, I heard that his speech was slurred. I was moving very slowly.

He was falling asleep in meetings. There were people around Ted Thompson that really feel like a Mark Murphy should have stepped in. Well, guess what? A Mark Murphy finally did step in. Basically fired, in quotes, Ted Thompson, and then stepped in and split Aaron Rogers and Mike McCarthy long overdue. I think it's a good thing. Remember, the fans own the team in Green Bay.

That's the reason there's even football in Green Bay. Yeah. You know, it's a unique setup. It's one of the best stories in sports. But sometimes you need an owner to step in, ball up the fist, slam the table, and make these big decisions. In so many words, and there's Mark Murphy Way, he did that. Yeah.

By the way, he went to Colgate, not at Harvard. He was also the 80 at Northwestern. He has a law degree from Georgetown. I remember he was a very good player for the Washington Redskins, highly educated, just a super smart guy who got stuck in the middle of this thing and had to make a decision. I think he made the right decision with Thompson. I think he made the right decision.

When you, you know, years ago, I said about eight years ago, I started saying this on the air and I got a lot of pushback saying, you know, Aaron doesn't connect with players in the sidelines. There's a lot of eye rolling and I don't love it. When I read your story, Tyler, and he talked about freezing certain receivers, freezing out receivers and going to Devonte Adams and not the young guys and developing them, that is really remarkable. Like that stuff, it's hard to get my brain wrapped around that.

I don't think that didn't happen for years, right? That was like this year, it had gotten so ugly this year, right? Like, that's not a trend of error. And that's just like a peeing match in the last, you know, six games. Yeah, I think you're right, Colin. And remember, there was this talent drain. The system worked, the scheme worked when you have Greg Jennings one-on-one, nobody can hang with.

And when you've got Jordan Ellis on those back shoulder throws, when you've got linebackers trying to cover your Michael Finley, when you've got Donald Driver, James Jones, Randall Cobb, you've got all these players. I mean, of course you're going to win those one-on-one matchups. So it got to that point over time where teams knew exactly what Green Bay was going to run. I mean, you've got cornerbacks calling out the routes. You wonder why the slant route died.

As a personnelman told me, they just knew what was coming because the Packers didn't evolve, didn't adapt. You lose that talent. You draft three rookies. You know, I think that Aaron Rogers got to a point where he felt he needed to play Superman. He needed to put that cape on, change plays, hold on to the ball, pat the ball, wait for the big play to develop downfield. But now the other side of it is you got to help develop these young players. You got to work with them.

Does a St. Brown, does a Valde's Scandling? Does a Jamon Moore have the thousands of reps that a Jordy Nelson had with Aaron Rogers to see the same thing out there and make the same adjustment? No. But maybe that's when you do stick with the call that came in. You try to work with that player. And yeah, as we wrote, it sounds like he just locked in on Devante Adams because that's who we trusted and didn't really want to embrace that development. So a couple of questions I got to get to. Number one, the massage therapist stuff, which McCarthy is denying, but I had a source yesterday tell me once I left the show, I text somebody I trust.

And he said, oh, yeah, the therapist was well known in the building. And this was a real thing. And, you know, the coach was often encouraging others to use the therapist. Were you surprised McCarthy denied the, you know, missing meetings for the massage therapist? Not surprised. I mean, what's he going to say? For one, he wants to coach in the NFL again, absolutely. And, you know, there are definitely are players who weren't that offended that maybe Mike McCarthy wasn't in those offensive meetings.

And as we wrote, there was one, I'll just call him, a prominent starter on this team who you wouldn't expect saying, Well, maybe Aaron Rogers, you know, floated that rumor to try to create a division, create a schism, create an anti-McCarthy faction. So that speaks to dysfunction as well to hear that from a player. But, yeah, after Mike McCarthy said what he said, as every right to say what he says, of course. Ten minutes later, I heard from a player who said that's just bizarre because it was widely known. It's no secret that, you know, he was taken aback that he even denied it. So, yeah, I mean, I heard from multiple sources. That was the case.

Even sources who you could term as pro McCarthy on this subject indicated that. Finally, Tyler Dunn Bleacher Report, NFL feature writer did a remarkable job, won our first ever very coveted, a Big J journalism award with a ridiculous trophy. And he's going on vacation, by the way. He should be driving now, but he did us a favor. So he's a good dude. I know that, and I thank you for that. We'll pick up the first tank of gas.

John, put that on our budget. please. Okay. Finally, Matt LaFleur, who I've been told is smart, doesn't have a ton of gravitas to knock on him. He wasn't great in meeting rooms. He didn't galvanize the guys. He didn't have a lot of alpha, but he's super smart. Sometimes maybe knows he's too smart. The concerns now for Murphy, you've got a wounded Aaron Rogers who's getting beat up in the press with stories like this. He's coming off an injury. According to the story, there's a little bitterness and defiance and defensiveness to Aaron, and here comes this young 35-year-old coach. I mean, give me a prediction. We have a minute left. Prediction for this year with that relationship. As Ryan Grant said,

it's not necessarily going to be the wins and the losses, but how does this look? And as Greg Jennings said, does he make those subtle self-s sacrifices? Does he hand the ball off to running backs 47 times in a conference championship game as Tom Brady does? Does he play within an offense? Because I think the floor is going to come with new stuff. There's going to be misdirection. There's going to be motion. There's going to be route combinations. Nate Hackett is OC.

I mean, you talk to this guy for five minutes. You want to run through a wall for him. I think Lou Gezzi, the quarterback's coach, he's a straight shooter from everything I've heard. The system is there for a rebound. And maybe that leads to excitement. That leads to revitalizes Aaron Rogers. It could.

But I think there is some very expected skepticism from some players is that at this point, Aaron Rogers, with contract in hand at 35 years old, fully embraces that. And look, it's a tough division, too. The bears aren't going anywhere. The Vikings aren't going anywhere. Who knows what happens with the Lions? But if he makes those subtle changes, they can be a Super Bowl contender. He's Aaron Rogers.

You know, he's still one of the best quarterbacks ever. We're talking about all those stuff surrounding the numbers. Tyler, we get a run. So do you. Thank you so much. Congratulations on the effort and the accomplishment. Great. Great work for you.

Thank you. Hey man, thanks a lot for having me on. Enjoyed it. All right. Tyler Dunn, good stuff. Pleacher Report. Coming up next. Watched an NBA game last night. It was great. It should have been better. I'll tell you why next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about. How healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history.

You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going.

from the WMBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki.

The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. at our level at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning.

It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Welcome back. Good to have you. Let me read a spot here. I'm a little behind on stuff. MDrive, great supplement. Use it every day.

just feel stronger. MDrive for men.com. Refine your prime with MDrive. Love doing journalism. Let me just shift the name of the show. Just take the herd off and just put a gigantic J on all of our properties. So last night I watched an NBA game.

Milwaukee in these awful uniforms, I don't know what the hell that was, and they played Philadelphia in their usual uniforms, and it was a great game. It was a great NBA game. And it's one of those games. You get about six of them in the regular season. You're like, oh, this is a playoff game.

And these two teams could meet in the playoffs. So I was glued in. do it. I went home yesterday. I was going to watch this game. And it was really, really good. And I could sit down today and have a little feel for it and say, Milwaukee went on the road and won. But here's the problem. Jimmy Butler didn't play. And increasingly in the NBA, stars don't play. And so what am I supposed to take from that game last night? I know Milwaukee's good. But Milwaukee, last night in that game, Philadelphia needed somebody to make a shot. Jimmy Butler didn't play. He will in the

playoffs. Philadelphia needed to make a stop last night late. The chances go up dramatically if their best player or best athlete Jimmy Butler is available. Folks, when the stars don't care about the regular season, why am I supposed to? This is a classic example of should have been a great game and you could take something from it and go, hey, late in the game, Jimmy Butler switched on Chris Middleton. Because Chris Middleton, he'll get to the foul line. He'll never miss a free throw. But increasingly, what am I supposed to make of the Raptors?

Kauai misses 15 games. What am I supposed to make of the Rockets? Well, Chris Paul missed 15 games. It's one thing if you're hurt, Chris Paul was. It's another thing if you're taking the night off because you want to take the night off. Last night, Jimmy Butler, back tightness out. Would he have missed the game if it was in the playoffs? hell no but he missed it because it's the regular season

last year golden state was a number two seed what's it matter a couple years ago the rockets won 22 straight in the regular season and they lost in the first round of Utah one of the reasons I say the NBA's got two seasons he's got the regular season and it's got the postseason I love the post season I tolerate the regular season this game last night I watched it I was really jazzed up

because I thought this guy has a playoff field to it We got about eight great players on the floor. When you take Philadelphia's most versatile two-way athlete, and this game was decided in the last four minutes, where Jimmy Butler would have been gigantic. He would have made a stop. He would have made a bucket. Instead, they had to kind of rely, because Ben Simmons isn't a shooter.

They had to rely on JJ Reddick, who's a good player, but they're not going to be relying on him as much as a Jimmy Butler late. And so this is a continuing problem, and I think it's a real issue inside league offices. This load management, people go to games. a handful of regular season games, this was going to be a biggie. And it's like, I watched it at the end and I'm like,

well, I can't make anything of it because Jimmy Butler would have made a basket. They would have designed stuff for Jimmy or he would have made a stop because Jimmy's their best defender. And in the end, I'm like, I was just entertained for, you know, second half for an hour. I was entertained, but I take nothing from it. And it should be this morning. If Jimmy would have played, you'd say,

so Milwaukee goes in to Philadelphia and Janus dominates him, B. at least late. And Jimmy Butler can't stop Middleton. You'd be like, okay, that's a thing. Like, that's a psychological thing. Don't kid yourself. Remember when LeBron James, a couple years ago, at the end of the year,

they went to Boston to play the Celtics. And the Celtics had Brad Stevens, young, young, young, young. And LeBron went in the regular season to Boston and was unbelievable. Played like 45 minutes and they destroyed Boston. I think it was a Sunday or Saturday TV game. And LeBron was telling you in the regular season,

oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If I want to destroy you, I will. And LeBron put a psychological stamp over the Celtics. Regular season can matter if the players care. Philadelphia could have beaten them last night with Jimmy Butler and put a little, put a little something in their head. He sits, they lose, it doesn't matter. If you don't care, I don't care.

Show's just getting good hour two coming up next. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Oh, here we go, hour two. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We are live in Los Angeles on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1.

That's Joy Taylor. You know, I got to, can I, can I, I'm happily married. I'm happiest guy in the world, right? But I have a Twitter crush on somebody. I know who it is. Who is it? It's Charlotte Flair. Charlotte Flair, Rick Flair's daughter.

She's married and stuff, and her husband can bench press Delaware. So the whole point is I find her to be fascinating and everything about her I like. See, I used to make fun of, I watched wrestling as a kid. And then it was like, come on, you're 45. I'm not going to watch wrestling. I used to make fun of wrestlers. And then all of a sudden we get into this business of wrestling. When I was at the other place, I remember saying on the air one day, I said, like, wrestling's becoming, it's just a big entertainment company.

And that's all they are. They're goofy and fun. And they're becoming more fun and more joyful. It's not all tough guys. And it's all an act. We know it's great. And so then, now we're doing business with a WWE here at FS1. And I'm meeting these people.

I'm doing sales stuff in Seattle with Vince McMahon's daughter. And I'm going to these events and I'm meeting them. And it's just funny. It's just a massive production. And I have a Twitter crush on Charlotte. You definitely do. I mean, it's, she pops.

Wrestling is completely rebranded to me over the last 10 years. I liked wrestling growing up too, obviously. Like everyone thought they were a wrestler. I would slam my siblings. They used to get real defensive about kind of, now they just laugh at you and say, look at our bank account and it's fun. There's so much crossover in all areas of entertainment,

like having gronk on and having the ball family on and they have, you know, Wiz Khalifa show up. It's, it's all just great entertainment now. For sure. I still think that you should do a bit. You should have someone, you know, like break a chair over your back. Oh, I'd love to. Maybe Charlotte and I could Royal Rumble or something.

I'm pretty sure she could pick you up and throw you out of the ring. Oh, I'm not denying that. Without question. That is for sure. Okay, so last night, Lakers played the Warriors G League team. I mean, that's what it was. LeBron didn't play, Cusman didn't play, Lonswood didn't play, Ingram didn't play. I don't think Josh Hart played. I watched it until it was 31 to 8, and then I stopped watching.

But I got in this morning, watch some YouTube stuff. And there was a moment after the game, you know, K, D, and LeBron do what they do. They start talking and they put towels and hands over. And, you know, everybody freaks out about this. What are they talking about? Oh, my God. Well, first of all, there's a comedian out there, a very funny guy called Savvy the Amusing. And he does impressions.

You can find him on Instagram at Savvy underscore Amusing. So here's what he says they were saying last night. They think I'm going to the Knicks, but I'm going to the Lakers. I'm letting you know, man. You always want to throw off the media, but I knew you was going to the Lakers, man. Magic was like KD on the way. I say he sure is, man. Okay.

I actually think I know what they were talking about. There was a moment last night in the game that was actually funny. Alex Caruso plays for the Lakers, little guy. And, I mean, in the world of the NBA, he's one of those guys. You're like, he's in the NBA. And he can play a little bit. So do we have the sound up of this? He had a massive play in this game, and I want you to watch the play and watch the reaction.

Rondell 3 up high and off the ball. That is poster ready. He just put the Warriors all on a team poster. Oh, my goodness. So I actually think LeBron and KD were talking about that. I actually think LeBron and KD were like, That was crazy, right? Like that's the funniest thing.

I think Katie was probably saying, you do realize now, best player on your team when you don't play is Alex Caruso? I could really watch that on a loop for maybe the rest of time. People do not understand this. Years ago, they did a survey in America. How many guys think they could have played sports, if not for a bad break? It's got to be 100%. It was like 78% that either the coach had it out for me or I got hurt.

Guys are delusional. I hope women are not as stupid. and delusional as men. Folks, Alex Caruso would beat all of you 20-0 in a game of 101. And I mean, that's just Alex Caruso in an NBA games. He's just dunked on Kevin Durant, Clay Thompson, and Steph Curry. Yeah, no.

And his own teammates. Like the average knucklehead that plays in a beer league thinks he's this close to be in Bryce Harper. I mean, the average guy out there has no idea how much greater professional athletes are than them. Like, it's not like, I mean, I swear to God, it's, I've sat, I remember once going to an NFL playoff game and watching Troy Aikman throw a football in Arizona.

And you could hear it. So, anyway, there you go. By the way, here's KD after the game about the conversation. Here's what KD said. Everybody wants to know what we're talking about. It wasn't even that serious. laughing, joking, catching up, you know. But everybody's so interesting, especially of the Brown.

So whatever he talks to, you know, the lip readers are going to try to figure that out. You got to just infatuated with that whole thing. So it's fun, I guess, people try to figure it out. Anyway, very funny story. So let me shift gears to this. So most media don't have a ton of courage. They don't like blowback. They don't like controversy.

They don't like hate mail. Most people run from it. I frame mine. It motivates me. I think it's funny. And I don't know why. I know a couple guys in the media that feel the same way I do. I just don't care.

I remember watching people. I thought I respected when Tim Tebow won six games in a row. And I would go on the air and say, last. This is stupid. But Tim Tebow's following was so huge that media people were like, they were petrified to criticize Tebow and say, this is nonsense. It's not going to last.

It's just a winning streak. And you have a lot of winning streaks in the NFL based on luck and timing and everything's working. And I just never, never ever caved on Tebow. I'm like, great kid. Let him play baseball. By the way, I just met his brother four days ago. But he's not, I'm not building my franchise around a guy that can't make a 28-yard out. It's not going to work.

So whenever you get a story that you know you should push. back on, push back on it. The Cleveland Browns now are that story. So the Cleveland Browns finished in third place last year, had a losing record, are historically a joke. The owner, Tennessee football is a mess, and the Browns are a mess. They both have the same guy running him. Freddie Kitchens has never coached.

He's never even interviewed for a coordinator job. He's had it for eight years. And now he gets Odell Beckham. He's got stars. You've got an ego at General Manager. And nobody will just say the truth. Odell Beckham's not happy here. They're not happy.

Look at him. Does he look happy? Sequin Barclay came out. This got buried in the story. Sequin Barclay came out and said he didn't react for a couple of days when Odell his teammate went to Cleveland. And he said, we talked over FaceTime. He just gotten traded.

He was not happy about it. By the way, I talked to Odell Beckham. You know, I talked about this about two months ago. He never mentioned Cleveland. Don't buy into this Jarvis Landry thing. There is no NFL player that is more L.A. and New York and Paris than O'Dell Beckham. He is an icon. He's a star. It's probably the most talented guy.

I think he's the most talented wide receiver in the NFL. Injury problems worry me. But nobody will just be honest about this Cleveland thing. It has a chance to be a complete nutter dumpster fire. But if you say that, you're going to get major pushback from Cleveland and their fans because, I don't know. Maybe because, I don't know. Ohio's very active on Twitter. Nobody will say, be honest about this.

This thing has a chance to be an absolute mess. Freddie Kitchens with these egos and these stars and these. I can tell you I have this as well-sourced as I can have it on O'Dell Beckham. He didn't want to go to Cleveland. He wanted to go to L.A. And I got this source. He's not happy. And I keep watching him.

I'm like, the guy didn't look that happy. Now, he'll make it work. But this was not his choice. And this is a bad organization that can't win. and have been, they haven't been hired. I think the last time they beat the Steelers in the division was like the 80s. It was like in 1989. So, and everybody, if you say this, people are going to freak out.

Just like eight years ago, I said in Aaron Rogers, read his body language. Read his body language. Watch him. Watch Jay Cutler's body language. He's hard to get along with. Then it came out. Jay Cutler's hard to get along with. Now the stuff's coming out in Aaron Rogers.

If you watch this Odell Beckham stuff and just do a little sourcing on this, this thing has a chance to be an absolute. mess. By the way, NFL executives were quoted in a story. Who did this story? ESPN did a story. NFL execs were quoted on the Browns. Here are the quotes. I know we're in the era of fake news, but these are people that would lose their jobs if there were fake quotes, said an NFL executive. These are executives in the league. The Browns are like the guy you knew in college. It was super fun to watch on Friday and Saturday night, but you didn't want to get too close. I don't see a long-term plan to retain players. I don't see a strategy. It's just, let's just grab some players and win.

Another executive said, I respect adding talent. I'm just leery of a lot of this talent. Another one said, can a first time head coach like Freddie Kitchens manage all these personalities? By the way, another one said on Kareem Hunt, I think he was worth the risk to at least bring him in the building, but he did grow up 40 minutes away from Cleveland where he got into trouble. Could get into trouble again. By the way, Cream Hunt, by the way, got suspended in college, and he's been suspended in the NFL. So he's got a little bit of stuff with him.

Again, basic general sourcing. You can figure that out. But this is the story about the Browns. Everybody's afraid to just talk about. Odell didn't want to go here. Odell's not happy. The owner's a control freak. John Dorsey's a control freak.

Freddie Kitchens could be over his head. I'm not even mentioning Baker, who's a kid. He's just a baby. You're going to get blowback if you say this stuff because everybody wants to celebrate Odell. Oh, no, Beckham didn't want to go to Cleveland. I mean, they didn't want to go there. That's a little bit of, they're a little drunk on the haterade with the anonymous quotes on the Browns. Well, they're executives.

It's not edgy to criticize what the Browns have done over the past two decades. Oh, no, that you're right. Okay, but there's a little bit of hateration going on here. All right, they have a lot of talent on that roster. And a co-chews. you have to hire a new coach. Do you think Odell Beckham's happy in Cleveland? Well, I don't know, Odell.

I don't think, I don't know if he's happy. I wouldn't be happy in Cleveland because I'm from Pittsburgh. So I'd rather be in Pittsburgh or I'd rather be in L.A. or Miami. But that's neither here nor there. Sometimes you go to smaller markets. Like obviously trades are very difficult on players. He just got traded. Maybe he needs a little time to adjust.

Don't you think Odell's the most New York? I don't want to play armchair psychologist for O'Dell Beckham Jr. He wasn't really necessarily happy in New York either. By the way, I'm not playing armchair. I am saying I have it incredibly well sourced that he was. pissed when he got traded to Cleveland. I'm sure he did want to come to L.A. He spends a lot of time in L.A.

All I'm saying is all of these quotes feel a little bit like. Well, they're not made up. No, but I can't even believe I'm like defending the Browns here. Can we just give it a little time? I'm not saying, I'm just saying, I'm going to put it out there. Odell Beckham didn't want to go here. Doesn't is not, I mean, I keep watching him. He doesn't feel like he's all in.

Now, he's great. And he's not going to say. anything and he's going to have a good year, but you think he's going to be there in four years? I'll make a, I'll make a, I'll make a bet. I don't know. All I'm saying is Jared Goff was a bus and the Rams paying everyone was a disaster and they were in the Super Bowl. No, no, no, no. First of all, anybody that called Jared Goff a bus is ridiculous. Jeff Fisher, Goff, it was a terrible fit. By the way, I have not even acknowledged Baker.

Baker's not my issue here. Baker's not my issue. It's a crazy owner. a power drunk GM, a coach that I think is over his head, a superstar wide receiver who's going to want a lot of attention and doesn't want to be there. This thing has disaster potentially written all over it. It does. It could go badly. But I would say, looking around the league, the Browns are not the worst situation to be in right now. No, no, no, no. I think they have a chance to be a nine-win team. but I also think they have a chance to be a seven-win mess.

I think it's going to take a lot to bring all of it together. It is a lot of talent. Does coaching matter? Does coaching matter in the NFL? I do think that it matters. I think it matters a tremendous amount. And I didn't know that Freddie Kitchens had the, was the right choice. If he walked in my kitchen, I would know Freddie Kitchens.

But I would say that if you can connect with your players, the base of any successful coach to me is connection. Because all of the X's and O's, you can put people around you. to supplement that. You have to be on the same page with, first of all, Baker Mayfield, but he clearly is. By the way, I'm not, this is nothing against Cleveland. Like Cleveland guy, by the way, please send a zillion tweets to me. A thousand million tweets to me.

I'll frame all of them. I mean, I'm in the strangest position defending Cleveland. I watched body language on Jay Cutler, and I said, that dude's got issues. He did. We watched body language on Aaron Rogers. You're like, there's stuff going. I'm watching Odell in Cleveland.

you don't see it? I'm just telling you. And I don't have to be a psychologist to watch body language. I can know beautiful women I used to ask them out and they weren't interested. I could figure it out. They didn't need to tell me they weren't interested. It's called like reading people. Can't you tell?

I mean, I do think there's something to it. We did the body language thing with LeBron all year and it turned out that was all right. It was correct. But I just think I think these things need a little bit of time. I can tell my bosses hate me. They don't have to tell me. I can tell when we have lunch. I can read their body.

language. Coming up next. Do we have this, hold on. Hold on. How about that? How about that? On the couch. Some insight on Kevin Durant and the Warriors from Mark Medina who covers them. He's on the couch. Coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd

weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode,

we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering our meeting, businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world. He doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across.

When Jacob met Levin this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in America. in history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them

and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it.

An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile. That means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Tomorrow we've got a double header for you on FS1.

First Mike Trout and the Angels face the Rangers at 4 Eastern, followed by Chris Bryant and the Cubs, taking on Christian Yellich and the Brewers, only on FS1 and the Fox Sports Act. By the way, all the stars in the end of baseball right now, Cody Ballinger's on fire, Bryce Harper, Jacob de Grom for the Mets. All the stars are playing really well right now.

Mark Medina is the Warriors writer for the Mercury News, former Laker writer for the LA Daily News, and we bring him on the show whenever he's in town. Warriors last night's absolute pleasure to see you. Likewise. Collins, how's things? Things are great. So last night, there's a moment.

LeBron and Katie talk. And everybody's trying to guess what they say, and you've got a theory on it. My theory, well, LeBron was definitely talking with them. They were having a little bit of a conversation. Kevin Durant afterwards when I asked him about it, was saying, hey, they're just catching up. They're joking a little bit.

But there were times if you roll back the video that Kevin wasn't even moving his mouth there, I wonder to what extent were they just trolling everyone. They knew the TNT cameras were locked in on there. it's in public view. Are they really going to be talking about their futures and trying to team up together in that setting? They know the optics.

And I think both those guys are smart enough to know. It's part of the soap opera that makes them rich. By the way, Kevin Durant, it's a fascinating player that he's a sensitive guy. I don't think that's disputable, which is fine. That's a good human quality. You don't want to be hard. You want to be sensitive.

And also, everybody claims they don't hear shows like this or other shows. Of course they do. If there was a network that talked about me all day, you don't think I'd hear about it. If you don't hear it directly, you're sitting in your hotel room in Cleveland, waiting for a game and they're talking about you on television. You're hearing all this stuff. But Kevin Durant is you cover him on a daily basis.

He can get prickly, but from what I understand from you, share this with my audience. He's kind of unique. He's not a grudge holder if he's ticked off at you. No, and I think it all pertains to like what kind of working relationship you have with him. But for me, personally, I've enjoyed the two years covering him. there's definitely been some challenging moments. You know, for example, Draymond Green and Kevin Duran had that blowup

against the Clippers in L.A. here in November. And then after Draymond had that one game suspension, you know, they're playing together in Houston. I asked Kevin, you know, just how things are going, how's the state of their relationship, you know, since time has passed. He snapped and said, don't ever ask me that again. But to his credit, a few days later,

pulled me this side in practice and we were able to clear the air. And I think the most important part when you're talking about kind of, Evan. And what that means is he's a complicated guy. It's hard to read him on a day-to-day basis. Sometimes he's moody. Sometimes he's happy. Give me a moody moment. Give me a moody moment. Yeah, moody moment is, you know, after the Knicks make those deals. Porzzygis. The writing is on the wall. They are clearing cap space to get Kevin Durant, right?

And there were a few days that he didn't speak to reporters once he finally did. A few of us asked him about it. and he got very irritable about the whole conversation, fascination, about his pending free agency and him saying that we've been, you know, on top of him all the time in regards to those questions. But then, you know, a few weeks have passed. I think lately he's been in a very jovial mood. I mean, for example, the exchange he had with LeBron, he was laughing about it when I asked him.

He's actually a great quote. Yeah, he's a great quote. And I think the thing about all this stuff, Colin, is how it pertains to his future. The Warriors don't know. The NBA, a lot of people don't know, but there is an overriding sediment that there's a feeling that he is going to leave,

but there's also a overriding sediment that he could easily just change his mind. And he don't know what are going to be the things that trigger that. Yeah, I say I've just because, I'm not Kevin Durant, but I have literally four times made a massive career change. and it is remarkable in all four. And I think I'm very common here.

This is, is there's something that happens, a conversation with a dear friend for me a couple times, a moment and epiphany driving and thinking. This idea that it's all planned out, it's not. I've moved cross country with a family four times. It's too complicated to be planned out. He's got too many, he's got his game, he's got his sneakers, he's got his sneakers, he's got city, it's got Silicon Valley, he's got friends, he's leaving a dynasty.

This idea that he's got it road mapped out, it's not the way by the way, that's not the way life works. You don't marry the person that you had. How many times have somebody been married and they said, I was, the last time of my life, I was looking to meet somebody. I literally had made up my mind,

I didn't want to date, boom, you find the love of your life. Right. And I think this idea that Kevin's got it mapped out to a bunch of hooey. Right. And here's the thing. The NBA, including the Knicks, they mapped things out long term because of all those different contingency plans, but everything's always subject to change. So when you're talking about the Warriors, I think the obvious benefits speak for themselves, where he's won two titles, he's won two finals MVPs. He might win a third here.

They're going to Chase Center next season in San Francisco. He's already had some business ties in Silicon Valley. Does he want to tap into that financially? The Warriors can offer him the most money, five years, $221 million. But Colin, here's what I think, Kevin Durant, one of the most unique players, not only in the NBA and professional sports, right? For him, his right of passage, usually guys and their criticism that awaits them. It goes away once you start winning a championship. For Kevin, it only accelerates it because the criticism that he's been getting is, hey, he took the easy way out. He went to the Warriors, a team that has Steph Curry, Draymond, Gray, and Clay Thompson.

and they've already wanted title together. So every time that he's had that milestone, that criticism just gets louder and louder, and it bothers Kevin. Mark Medina, you covered the Lakers for the LA Daily News, why we brought you on the show because we thought you had some really good sourcing

and you were a smart young guy. There are, it's unraveling a little bit. Joy had said earlier, let's slow down. He did Land LeBron. Your sources, because you still have sources all throughout the NBA and Los Angeles, it's obviously been a choppy year. what is your gut feeling on that wheel of probability in all those players?

I don't think they land. I think Boogie Cousins is probable. And after that, I don't know if they have the pieces for Anthony Davis. Do you think there's some master plan, some great plan here? Are they kind of just making it up as they go? You know, it's very hard to read. First of all, as far as free agency goes, I can rule out some names here or right here. Clay Thompson, he's not going anywhere.

He's told me he wants to be a warrior for life. I think as soon as 901 hits June 30th, he's going to agree to a deal, assuming the Warriors offer him the max, and I think that they will. Kevin Durant, he might leave the Warriors. I don't think he's going to the Lakers. Look, he and LeBron, they might be chatting it up during a game.

There is mutual respect for obvious reasons, but just knowing how Kevin Durant takes, I don't think he wants to play with LeBron because of all the circumstances and the circus that surrounds him. I don't think he would respond well to say, you look at how LeBron handled Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love and the leadership style in Cleveland, I don't think that would sit well with Kevin. But to the larger point you ask, as far as where the Lakers go from here, I think they're in this really precarious position because, look, the young guys,

they've shown some glimpses of good things. They're not special. But, yeah, you hit it the nail on the head. There's not a feeling of, hey, this guy's going to be a star, but you don't want to just give up young guys for nothing. How do they find that middle ground? Because not only do you not want to run the risk of losing a good young asset, even if it's not a game changer, but you also want to establish a little bit of continuity, a little bit of culture,

it's a very tough position because you have that, but on the other hand, you know that if you get a star, things change like that. But Colin, I think when you look at this season and the Lakers and what went wrong, I'm not making an excuse for them, but injuries were predominant things.

I think of LeBron was healthy and some of their young guys were healthy. They would have still been able to sneak into the plows and maybe cover up some of the issues going on. But let me push back on that. Lonzo now injury prone. Brandon Ingram, a serious medical condition. I don't think those are all solved if they stay. Lonzo has not shown an ability to stay on the floor. Right.

And fair point. And that's what I was going to get into here where if they were healthy, it may have been at least enough to get to the plows. But wouldn't it solve everything here, right? Because I think when you're looking at the moves that the Lakers made, yes, they got LeBron James. They got the big name. But underneath that, their moves haven't really panned out. They didn't surround LeBron with shooters. They got a bunch of veterans on one-year deals.

None of them can shoot. Yeah, none of them can shoot. And it's kind of an awkward dynamic. When you have guys on one-year deals, you wonder to what extent are they trying to make sure that they're securing their future versus doing what's best for the team? I think to some extent the young guys have gotten a bad rap where they have developed, but not to the point that, you know, that they're showing clarity on how they can be stars. But for them to just be thrown out there in the Anthony Davis trade discussions, obviously everyone's on the table, but there was a lot of consequences post trade deadline from that.

And I wonder if they can ever recover from that because the feeling around the NBA is the way those trade negotiations were handled. There was a lot of resentment built from some of the young guys and kind of a feeling that LeBron was detached from them. And they have to kind of bridge that gap from here on now. By the way, Steph and Steve Kerr, too, the smartest guys, the nicest guys in the league. What's that been that like to cover him? Yeah, it's exactly that. And I think the thing with Steph Curry is the thing that might be obvious, oh, he makes a bunch of 30-footers. He's such a great shooter. But he's the guy that, kept everything together this season.

I would venture to say that if you removed Steph Curry, maybe the Draymond-Duran incident would have festered longer. Maybe the integration process with DeMarcus wouldn't have been as seamless. He is a guy that has a really good pulse on the team and tries to do a lot of things proactively to make everyone feel comfortable. And the fascinating thing about Steph Curry is it's, the feeling is it's not contrived. This is authentic in who he is. is who he is.

Low maintenance. Low maintenance. And I think the other important thing is what Draymond Green has said about Steph is that there's no fake BS. Guys in this league and in professional sports, they can detect that easily. With him, they feel it's all genuine. So that makes his leadership qualities, I think, even more valuable because they know that he has their best interests.

Good seeing you, bud. Likewise. Always, always a fun time. Love having you. All that insight on the world. Warriors. Mark Medina, Warrior writer, Mercury News. Joy with the News. No. No. No. No. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Let's talk about some more news from Mark. More than one year about being waived by the Lakers,

Andrew Bogot is apparently still upset about it. Bogot told Mark Medina, I was basically lied to. The Lakers told me I'd be there the whole year. They went against their word and waived me at the deadline. It's part of the business, but it's disappointing because I have two young kids and all that. I was stupid enough to take their word on something. I shouldn't have. I say this all the time. I will never, ever understand this move. I wish front offices would stop doing it.

It makes no sense. You are not obligated to tell a player you're not going to trade them or move them. Don't do it. You may have to do it. And then what? Then you're a liar. Why do you even say it?

It makes no sense. It just creates an environment of distrust. You don't have to do it. If a player asks you point blank, are you going to trade me ever? You can say, I can't give you that answer right now. You're on the team right now. a part of this family, this is a business.

I can't give you an answer. It's a real simple rule in life. Make fewer promises. Just in life, don't make promises ever. Especially don't make promises that you literally cannot eat. By the way, because you can't keep most of them. Just don't make, in life, over-deliver. Under-promise, over-delivers a great rule in life.

Relationships, teams, business. It's remarkable. I mean, we see this in sports so much. It's not just in basketball. And I never understood it. You're just setting yourself up for failure and you're just creating division and bad energy that sticks with players and franchises for a long time.

All right, so one of the most heated bidding wars is upon us as we get closer to Zion Williamson becoming the number one overall pick, which we all assume he will be. According to ESPN, there is a brand base in China that's also hoping to get in the mix of seven bidders and one unnamed company willing to offer 10 million per year. So there's a bunch of bidders for Zion Williamson, not just Nike. Adidas, Under Armour, New Balance, Puma, and Anta.

This is a two-horse race. It's Nike and Adidas. I don't know. Someone may be willing to give him a whole lot more money to trump them. From what I, and I trust a source on this. Lots of sources today. Nike is going to make sure. Nike is willing to overpay him significantly. After the shoe explosion. Well, that's an interesting thing.

You know, Gottlie brought that up last week. Obviously, Nike and LeBron have a great partnership, and LeBron's shoe sells well. But LeBron's shoe is a very, very heavy shoe. It's made for a bigger guy, obviously, which Zion is. So is Zion's shoe going to be similar to LeBron's, like, or is it going to be a more, I guess, casual wear-friendly shoe? You know, because LeBron's shoe to me is a basketball shoe built for LeBron. It doesn't translate well to streetwear, the way that's, you know, the same. sneaker explosion has in Jordan.

So I don't know. It'll be interesting to see what the style of it is, especially after that shoe explosion, how they actually design the shoe and what it looks like. I don't know, though. I think there could be some sleepers in there. Adidas just signed Beyonce. Well, Adidas is big that's big boy money.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Nike and Adidas. I don't think that Nike is the only one that is... I'm going to go with my money on heavy, heavy Nike lien. Okay. All right. Well, you have the sources today. Finally, sticking with Nike, The Jets have a new coach, new stars, and now a new uniform. Did you see the Jets' new uniform?

I loved it. Did you? They changed their uniforms in 1998, and they unveiled the new uniforms last night. Super Bowley. Their home away and alternate uniforms will include a shade of green that was developed for the Jets called Gotham Green. Oh, I love it. We're also unveiled at Gotham Hall in Midtown, Manhattan. That gives them one more win at least.

I really like the stealth black ones. Oh, I love the black ones. I will say the first time. I saw the uniforms, I did get a flash of like any given Sunday the longest yard. Because they're very simplistic. Sam Darnel. It's going to be wearing a lot

of games in that black roadie. I do like the black one. And just as a note, speaking of Gotham, the Joker movie comes out. They just put the new trailer out with Walking Phoenix. I saw that. Looks good. Yeah, it does. I saw that last night. I'm excited for that. It's not so October though. Enjoy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly news.

Rob Parker's going to yell. at me. That's coming up next. Rob Parker's going to yell at me. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies, I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds,

just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast.

Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that.

Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like. you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals.

At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports.

Now, be able to get a new car with your tax refund, get a new paint job, MACO. M-A-A-A-C-O. Today, get your dream paint job during tax season sales event, MACO. Rob Parker's joining us. Boy, this Aaron Rogers story is great. Finally, the truth comes out on Aaron Rogers. Come on, Colin, you're not buying all this. This is revisionist history. And I'm not saying that there weren't some issues.

The guy who got away Scott free in this piece is Ted Thompson, their GM, who didn't go out and get enough defense to help Aaron Rogers. And you've got to admit that. Yeah, no, if you've noticed in the last two and a half years since Ted Thompson left, they've drafted defense, free agent defense. And you would keep it all those bad defensive coordinators around. So all I'm saying is when you pull the cover back, Colin, from most teams or most great teams or iconic situations,

there's plenty of pimples and stuff that you look at and go, oh my God, look how terrible. No wonder they didn't win, no wonder this didn't happen. But even teams that have won, they've had these things in the back. Now, I think it's over the top, this whole notion that McCarthy should have been gone years ago. Let me see. You want to talk about what he did in Green Bay? How many coaches when a quarterback went to eight straight playoffs?

You want to take a look at the list? Take a look at the list, and the list is stellar. Landry was one of those coaches. Belichick. Belichick. Walsh. No, Walsh wasn't on that list. And I think don't we have the list?

And the other one is Chuck No. So those are the only three coaches and McCarthy. You want to know the coaches who aren't on that list? Shula, Parcells, madden. So I'm saying when you look at the stretch with Aaron Rogers to act like they weren't doing anything or they didn't get enough done, I mean

that's an incredible list. What about all this Aaron stuff though, freezing out people, holding a grudge since 2005? He looks very petty. No, that stuff is petty. And you know what? Sometimes you get that when you deal with people who are, you know, like, what's the right word,

when you're, I don't want to say better, smarter than everybody, but when you're a prodigy or when you're one of those guys, sometimes people like that are a little off center. Would you agree with that? No, I think you can make an argument.

He's a good-looking guy. Aaron's super smart. He gets frustrated. He doesn't suffer fools gladly. He gets very frustrated with people. So I think that's a fair, but Tom Brady's probably not a prodigy in terms of talent.

He's a combination of great things. Yeah, so I think that there's a combination and don't forget to Aaron Rogers, who was passed over on draft day, came into the league, pretty angry. You know what? A lot of people and held that against people because now we look at at him and say, skill set-wise, he might be the greatest whoever threw a football. I'm just saying some of this stuff in Green Bay and the underachieving, some's on errand too.

Okay, but you also some, but most is on the coaching staff and the GM from this standpoint, Colin. Look at the games that they, they're an on-side kick away, right? When Bostic, remember the tight end? Yeah. Got in the way of Jordy Nelson. That would have been another trip to the Super Bowl. You remember the run in 2016. Aaron Rogers finished the season with like 22 touchdowns and no picks.

They go to Atlanta and the defense gives up 44 points. There's nothing Aaron Rogers could do. I'm not totally exonerating him. There are those moments out there. I don't know if Tom Brady, other than that Super Bowl, where they gave up all those points to the Eagles, all those Super Bowl, all those player for appearances, Aaron Rogers' defense gave up over 40 points like that.

three or four times. I'm not saying he's, it's all air. And I do think, I think the stuff where you know, Mark Murphy's like, don't be the problem with a new guy acknowledging we're over some of your diva stuff. We're kind of over some of it. Okay. If you want to line up with a rookie head coach who's never been a head coach in the NFL. No, I don't love that higher. Compared to a quarterback. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like to do that when Aaron Rogers doesn't make any sense to me because this is the one thing that people have to be honest about. Every year, despite even the bad defenses that they had, they were always in the mix and always had a chance. They won that division almost every year.

I mean, and a lot of it was on the back of Aaron Rogers because they didn't have a good defense. Let me shift to this. Story out. Brian Winhorse. LeBron struggling to even recruit stars to his movie Space Jam 2. Have we reached a tipping point where the chosen one has elevated himself so far culturally. above NBA players that he's no longer attractive to play or be part of. I definitely can see that.

I mean, even I think LeBron has, because I think people have seen the act for a long time now, and LeBron's not that guy anymore. He might get 27, 8, and 8, but it doesn't have the same impact that it used to. Well, yeah, he's not defensively he mailed a season in. Right. And I think also people look at him and go, okay, yeah, he dictated this move to L.A. He really came here to get his Hollywood stuff going. And he's an aging superstar that showed his age.

And LeBron has always been the one. He gets all the, reaps all the benefits and the rewards. And when things don't go right, see, he doesn't have any help. See, it's the other guys. The coach. They need to go. It's the coach. They need to go.

Kevin Love is no good. Kai resists. So people have watched that for years. And they're like, listen, we know the game with LeBron. they win he gets it you lose you get it exactly and I said it's the other day LeBron has been seeking power

LeBron and his guys have been seeking power for 12 years they got it they got all of it and power turns a lot of people off absolutely and especially when the way that Anthony Davis thing went down it was a bad look just from the idea that he was willing and even flirting you remember

AD was on his barbershop show and he wanted to play with him he was very public with that that he wanted to play yet he had teammates and they're trying to make the playoffs, you know? Last Sunday in the LA Times, the calendar section, LeBron, as he announced, he wasn't playing, was in the calendar section. And the optics for me, LeBron, would you stop?

Would you stop just for an hour? Let's get back into basketball. The seasons were like, we're in the season. Do this the minute after the finals end, then spend four months doing all this stuff. And that was the other problem people thought he had, and let's face it, let's count. probably has more projects going than the Lakers have wins. And nobody would have imagined, you know, coming into this year. Oh, we thought they were going to be a 45 win.

Exactly. By the way, an executive said, what do you make of this quote? Magic has destroyed the place. That seems a little extreme. Even for me, that's extreme. It seems a little. You know what I mean? Destroyed, I wouldn't say that.

Has he made some missteps? Absolutely, Colin. I told you this before, starting with the Paul George, assuming. Remember? The Paul George thing, the fact they didn't get an interview. Says a lot. It's not great. And then, right.

And so you start there and now look at where they are. This was supposed to be what, Colin? A look-see year, right? Nobody expected them to win anything. So halfway through, they panic and go, we need AD. We need AD right now. And that blew up in their face. They still should have made the playoffs.

They shouldn't have put all those names out there. All those guys, they got to be professional. No, when someone tells you nobody's any good and we're willing to get rid of all of you guys right here right now, they're supposed to rally around and play for a guy? No, I thought magic was too glib when magic said, hey, if you're a pro, you've got to deal with these rumors. It's like timeout magic.

You're magic. Nobody ever wanted to trade magic. Exactly. It's easy to say, you've got to get used to this stuff. Nobody's ever want, everybody wants to be with magic. Nobody ever wants to get rid of magic. And Colin, here's the other part. Second seconds.

Okay. They just don't have, if they don't get a big star, how are they going to trade the players who are banged up and injured for anything? They can't. It's spring cleaning time. Casper.com. Caper.com. Code Herd, $100 toward the purchase of select mattresses.

Alaska, Hawaii, additional fees. Rob Parker's is named. Great job. Hour three next. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Oh, here we go on a Friday.

Can't wait. Last Hour, Hour 3, and we are live. This is The Herd, wherever you may be, and however, you may be listening. IHart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1. You know who I'm having a few minutes here? About 15 minutes? Christian Leitner. Duke Star, last great college basketball player. No, I shouldn't say that.

Anthony Davis was great. He's the last college basketball player that I got up on a Saturday or Sunday. and I turned the TV on to find where Christian Leitner was playing. You have a Duke thing, but he was there for four years. So he was great, and then he came back, and he came back, and he came back. I mean, he was just like, can you imagine Zion coming back three more years? That's the way college basketball used to work. It's incredible.

It would be something. It'd be interesting to see what he thinks about what Zion has done for Duke's normally hated reputation. Yeah. Because everyone was rooting for Duke. Oh, no, no, I think. I think. Leitner was easy to dislike. Zion's incredibly easy to like.

Just their sort of their personalities. Christian walked along with a little bit of a chip and he was good-looking guy and he kind of where Zion's just smile, smile, fun, fun. Certain people are just really, really likable. Zion's really likable. He plays the game with that kind of energy. Yeah, Grant Hill at Duke was really, really likable. Bobby Hurley, I thought, was a likable guy.

He was tough. He was a little small and he was feisty. So Christian Leitner, Sirius XM, Channel 83, the Hurd's on also. Later and Best for Last. It's one of my favorite things we do every week. Tomorrow's headlines today with Jason McIntyre. Well, a huge story, mega story involving Aaron Rogers and former Green Bay coach Mike McCarthy broke yesterday right before our show.

So I'm starting right there. Eight, nine years ago, I was critical of Aaron Rogers. He was the golden child in the NFL. You couldn't touch him. I got massive blowback. I remember one time I didn't get blowback. I had Peter King on it. I said, Peter, I'm watching his body language.

I'm hearing things from former players. And Peter King's really connected. I'm like, the guy's a diva. He's part of the underachieving problem here. And Peter's well-sourced. And Peter's like, I'm not hearing it. And I don't have as good as sources as Peter King because he literally, that's all he does. And I remember getting off the other day and thinking, am I missing something?

I'm watching him. I'm hearing him. But I always trust my eyes and I always trust my sources. And I stayed on him. And it's so amazing because the last six months, it's all coming out. It's all coming out. No more denial. No more.

You're a heda. Take your cheesehead off. It's the reality. That article yesterday, I thought it overwhelmingly clobbered Mike McCarthy because it unveiled new information on Mike McCarthy. It was a very well done article, very well sourced. A lot of quotes. Not all anonymous.

Aaron Rogers, I mostly knew it. So it didn't strike me as new information. This is what I felt about Aaron for years. He's aloof. He's not a great leader. He needs to grow up. He's overly petty. Tyler Dunn reports that Mark Murphy, who's the CEO of the Packers, he's a Harvard guy.

Mark's played for the Redskins for years. Mark Murphy's, you know, super smart guy. Really, really, one of the smarter guys that runs any team in the NFL. That he called Aaron Rogers after they hired Matt LaFleur. And he said, don't be the problem. And he repeated it to Aaron Rogers. Don't be the problem. Murphy, it says, is tired of the diva stuff relating to Rogers.

Folks, his own family's taking shots at him. Grow up, own it. Young sportscasters, trust your eyes and trust your sources. Don't back down. I was right on Tebow. That's not a starting quarterback. And Aaron Rogers, I've never been more right in anything. When I read that yesterday, after I got off the show, don't be the problem.

Oh, okay. Okay. By the way, the article continues, here's an important non-development regarding the 12 hours or so since the report. The Packers have said nothing at all in response to various claims and contentions that cast Aaron in a not-so-favorable life. they're worn out by him. Worn out by him. The story continues, says Ryan Grant, former Packer. Aaron's always had a chip on his soldier with Mike.

This is incredible. Since 2005, 14 years, because Aaron was mad that Mike passed on him when he was with the Niners. They took Alex Smith, and Aaron's from NoCal. You're still holding that grudge? I mean, what? So you can't deny it anymore. You can't deny it. Put the cheesehead down for five minutes.

Be a grown-up and do a better job if you live in Green Bay of actually reporting on a team and not supporting it. Not rooting, but reporting. This stuff, you can't deny it anymore. You can't. Listen, one of the greatest attributes of Tom Brady. And for years and years, Brady and Aaron Rogers were compared, and I always said they're not even the same personality. Aaron's much more big Ben, much more passive aggressive, much more heavy in a locker room. But one of the great qualities of Brady is that he makes really bad plays.

He's had pick sixes in Super Bowls. Tom makes big mistakes. He doesn't have the arm strength or the ability to escape things. Tom's made massive misuse, big games, small games. And he's had fights with his coach. He's had yelling matches with. his coordinators. But you know what Brady has the ability to do that Aaron doesn't?

Get over it quickly. It's called maturity. It's called being an adult, not holding grudges. That's what separates Brady from Rogers. Leadership, not talent. Tom's thrown terrible pick sixes and Super Bowls. And the next drive, he's eight for eight. He gets over stuff.

He fought with Belichick. This year, got along great. He's had screaming matches with Josh McDaniels. I'm not saying a little bit of Aaron's chip on the shoulder is all bad. I like the chip. But it can't be a personal peeing match. Like, grow up.

Get over it. I mean, 10-year grudges, that's just chain smoke and hate. You've got to move on. That's beating you up. It's not beating anybody else up. McCarthy's over it. You're not. And there's another quote from Bleacher report from a former Packer Scout that says

Aaron's become worn down and bitter about everybody's expectations and the type of leader he should be. He's Brett Farr of 2.0. He used to say I'll never be like that guy. He literally is. So I thought the report yesterday was just a bombshell on McCarthy, and I thought it told me mostly everything I knew about Aaron Rogers. And I've been told, by the way, and trusted my sources and eyes for 10 years, family, teammates. You know, they've said Greg Jennings is not a hater. He was totally validated in the article.

But if this puppy was bad in 2005, I mean, that's on errand. Get over it. Move on. Mature. Lead. That's just not acceptable. That's just embarrassing. That's one of those things you wake up and read the article.

And if you're the guy, you're like, man, I look like a kid. And you can't have a kid running a franchise. Let's shift to this. Words are important. If I said to you, this is critical, critical's not the same as, oh, this is desperate. Like critical is, a doctor says, listen, you have got to improve your diet over the next two years, or you could have some physical issues. Desperate is, we got to get you a new heart or you're dead in six hours.

Critical is important. It is important that you eat more vegetables. Tell my son, much of the disease starts in the mouth, brush your teeth two, three times a day. That is critical. Desperate is, oh, we've got to give you a new lung. Call the doctor immediately. You know, when people go to the hospital and they have to have an emergency surgery, that's desperate. The Lakers are not in critical condition, according to the articles I'm reading today.

They're in desperate shape. This story from Brian Winhorst says something. Historically, LeBron has sort of been involved, but not all the way involved, because he doesn't necessarily want to be known as the guy who couldn't close the deal in free agency. He doesn't want it all on him. LeBron has perfected the art of influencing deals without taking ownership of them. According to Winhorst, in all honesty, he's been recruiting players to come and try to in Space Jam this summer.

He can't close the deals. Some of the top players, one in particular, they don't want to be punked in the movie by LeBron. Optics Matter for stars. This is a thing, folks. When you call yourself the chosen one and the king, you have elevated yourself among even other great players. Paul George chose Applebee's and O KC and Westbrook over LeBron.

Kauai Leonard reportedly, more interested in the clifers than the Lakers. Just think about that for a couple of minutes. I saw an anonymous scout said yesterday, the athletic, very fine subscription-based publication, surveyed 12 execs. Too many question marks said one of the scouts on the Lakers. Magics destroyed the place. They got rid of DeAngelo Russell and Julius Randall for what, Rondo, and to get out of Timothy Mavzgov's contract? I don't think it's fair to say that magic has ruined the place. But six months ago, they had a plan. Let's get LeBron. Today's Lakers have hope. That's not a plan. There is a very real wheel of possibility. There are eight to nine players that are available to

the Lakers, from Zion to Kyrie to Kauai to Jimmy Butler to Kimball Walker to Boogie A.D. Clay Thompson, Kevin Durant. My feeling is, Boogie is theirs if they want him, but I do not think he makes the Lakers a better place. But I'm reading stories and the word I keep hearing from LeBron, this offseason is crucial. No, it is not. It is desperate.

And you got to do better in that wheel of possibility than Boogie Cousins. Christian Leightner around the corner. What does he make of Zion? Did Duke underachieve? Players won and done it. He came back for four years. Christian Leitner, one of the great college basketball players of my life. Joining us next.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels. of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman, catapulted, Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness,

professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WMBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you,

but don't ever feel like you don't feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas, and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to, win more gold medals.

At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Dallas Stars Battle of Blackhawks, Discovery Card, Discover card key matchup, find out of social security numbers like yours are on the dark web, risky websites everywhere. Go to Discover.com slash free alerts, limitations apply. By the way, the Cowboys getting very close to signing a DeMarcus Lawrence, a great pass rusher, 26-year-old to a contract that's just coming down. You know, they need him.

He's great. By the way, there's over and unders in Vegas are coming out over the next two weeks on wind totals. And generally, as a rule, fans go overboard on wind totals. So always bet the under on win totals, because fans generally have more optimism. Vegas has more reality. The NFC East wind totals on one of the sites right now, Eagles 9 and a half, Cowboys 8 and a half, Giant 6, Washington 6. Seems pretty accurate to me. I think Philadelphia has a chance if Carson Wentz can stay healthy to get into the 10 and 11 win total. Everywhere else there feels pretty good. you know, Cowboys were going to be a good football team.

I saw a win total this morning. They got Cleveland at nine. Everybody in Ohio is betting the over on that. Everybody. Be very careful about the Browns, betting over nine wins. Everyone in Ohio is going over nine wins. Duke Johnson's demanded to be traded. Odell Beckham, I contend, doesn't want to be there.

Kareem Hunt, not until week eight. They just traded a good interior offensive lineman, and they have a rookie head coach. Listen. Do you think anybody in Ohio's taking the under on nine for Cleveland? Cleveland's crazy. They love their sports. Ohio. Crazy.

No, they do. I've always said Browns fans. I have a lot of respect for Browns fans because for the most part, you have nothing to root for and they're there every single year. I think it's a lot of expectations which the Browns in general have not played with in a very long time. It's a lot of things that have to come together, all these things you just mentioned. Yeah.

I think Cleveland will be in the 500 area. Now, they may be a game over nine. I think the over under nine is a good Vegas number. That's a good. By the way, Vegas doesn't have a lot of people nine or nine and a half. That's like elite territory. I think they have New England at 11. And I think New England has a chance to be really good this year.

So, and that's Brady and Belichick. Do you think, I would just ask you this. Does coaching matter in the NFL? Yes, it does. Who are the last four coaches left? Annie Reid, Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, and Sean McVeigh. Freddie Kitchens is the Brown coach. Never been a, never been a coordinator for a full year.

Mike Tomlin's still a good coach. Yeah, I mean, Pete Carroll, yeah. But, I mean, there's some. A lot of Super Bowl trophy. Mike Thomas got Super Bowl trophies. Listen, you could be in a lot worse predicaments than the Browns are in right now. It could be worse. It could be worse.

You could be the Dolphins. Well, they're tanking. But I still get aqua water. I'm excited about their new coach, and I'm going to see what happens. But I just wish we had a quarterback. Yeah, you're going to be a 4-12 team. But that's okay because you get the number one pick, and you know who the number one pick is going to get you next year?

I'm not. Oregon's quarterback. No interest in Tua if that's the direction. I'm not in on Tua either. Is it an NFL quarterback? I have to see more. He's been hurt a bunch. I don't see it for the NFL.

A little small. He plays in that Alabama system or they don't ask him to do a ton. That kid at Clemson, they open the playbook for that kid. You can do anything you want. Every Alabama quarterback, you know, is restricted to some level with Nick. By the way, don't skip meals. It's soylent. I drink it every day at three.

It is a meal replacement. Go to Soylent.com. 20% off your first case. If you put in the code, Heard 20, here's Joy with the News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd Line News. So Jeannie Bus has been defending Luke Walton for most of the season.

And through the chaos, Jeannie has made one thing clear. His future with the Lakers will be decided by Magic Johnson. She was asked directly about Walton's job status during a live podcast at Loyola, Marymount University, and had this answer. In terms of basketball decisions, I will always defer to Magic. You know, he's brought a vision of the kind of team that we're going to build and the vision for what Lakers basketball will be. You can see that, but we're still building that roster that will get us there.

I'm totally okay with her deferring to Magic. There's a reason why Magic's the position he's in. He's taking a lot of heat right now, rightfully so. They did not have a good year, and the optics of it were pretty much a disaster. but he is still in the position that he's in and that's his job to make those decisions and like I said earlier I think everyone is it's the Lakers so we had

unrealistic expectations of what they were going to be this year kind of ignored the roster ignored the pressure that is in Los Angeles and kind of thought this was a year they could sort it out and that's quickly not what it became and then injuries and whatever else we know what happened but he did land LeBron James

we are entering into a historic NBA offseason with the draft and the free agents that are out there and the movement that is possible. So I don't think it's the end of the world for the Lakers. They are the Lakers at the end of the day. And there's a lot that can still happen. But I do think that, like we mentioned earlier, this offseason is critical, not only for

LeBron James and his legacy, but for the Lakers future. If you told me they landed Jimmy Butler, although he comes with baggage. Can't get along with anybody. I'd feel better than I would with Anthony Davis because I think LeBron would play. very well with Butler. I'm not convinced LeBron plays well with Biggs. He didn't play well with Bosch. I mean, again, they won titles, but he marginalized Bosch, he

marginalized Love. If they could, if you just told me today, they land Jimmy Butler, I would be like best case scenario. I think that's the best case scenario. I think Anthony Davis sounds bigger, but Anthony Davis can't shoot threes, and that's the league. The best case scenario is Kevin

Durant. Well, that's not going to happen. The second best case scenario is Kyrie Irving, and that's very close. And Clay Thompson, I could argue, would even be better than Kyrie because he's a better defender? I just think Kyrie would be better because there's no get to know you. Yeah, thing. And Clay Thompson, there's a lot of options I would get to before Jimmy Butler.

I do think Anthony Davis would be better, although they still need to put shooters around him. And who knows what LeBron's game's going to be like? He is getting older. He did have his first major injury. He doesn't play defense anymore. He doesn't play defense anymore. It's an important offseason. Stick with the Lakers and LeBron. Brian Winhorst

said on the jump yesterday, LeBron has perfected the art of influencing deals without taking ownership of them. Of course, he will reach out the free agents the ability for him to close deals. That's different. He's been recruiting players to come and try and be in space jam with him this summer, and he hasn't been able to close some of those deals. Some of the top guys he wants to come and be with him

in the movie. It's almost like you had a source on this. No, I don't. I don't have any sources. Kind of felt like it earlier. If I have a source, I say I have a source. You don't hear me say I have a source a lot. Most of my gut feelings are just correct. I don't, I had some concern

about this just because I've had some reservations about this movie to begin with because Space Jam is very near and dear to hoop fans' hearts. And not that I don't think that this reboot is going to be a failure, I certainly don't. I think LeBron is great at entertainment and he's put great people around him to make this

a success. But I did think it was going to be interesting. What are the roles that these guys are going to play in this movie? Because it's a new world and everybody is a star. And there's no like big brother situation going on here in a lot of cases. So I don't know. Like what's the script look like? Do you know there's two great movies in the history of the world that I have not watched? Raging Bull and Space Jam.

Okay. I haven't seen Raging Bull either. I've never seen Space Jam. Which, relax. I'm going to get around to it. You need to see Space Jam. What is it? It's one of the all-time greats.

I mean, I don't, I feel embarrassed saying Space Jam is an all-time great movie. It's just a necessary movie. You have to watch. John, have you seen Space Jam? Yes, I have. I was a kid in the 90s, so how could I not? I saw it one time, a long time ago. What did you think?

I don't remember anything, honestly. So I'm more with you than Joy. So would you put it like I? No. I mean, here's breaking news. Michael Jordan not nominated for an Oscar for that. Really? I mean, it's Space Jam.

Like, it's just a movie that you need. At this point in your life, I don't know that seeing Space Jam is going to be effective for you. You kind of had to see Space Jam when the Space Jam thing was a thing. I never watched any of the karate kids. What's wrong with that? I had a girlfriend. I'm sorry. Wait, wait a time you haven't seen Rocky now?

No, I saw all the Rockies, the big ones. No, give me a movie. What do you mean the big ones? I mean, I've seen the big movies. I watched the best movies every year. I saw Rocky. So you've seen all the Rockies? Give me some movies.

I didn't see Karate Kid. I don't even know. I know what it looks like. I have no idea, though. Again, I think I had a girl. What did you choose to do instead of seeing Karate Kid? I had a girlfriend. Oh.

Whoa. I mean, do you take your girlfriend to the movies? Listen, all I'm saying is, if you have a girlfriend in high school and in college you don't do that guy stuff a lot I didn't hang out What is guy stuff about seeing karate kid? I'm watching movies

Karate kid with a girl What are you talking about? Like a movie date is like the If you ask a thousand people What's the best date? You're going to say dinner or movie or a combination I would never take a girl to karate kid Most people see more movies

On dates. I don't go to movies with other guys I go with a girlfriend Yeah, like you were going to get together with your bros like, bro, karate kid. I didn't go to movies with dates. Wax on, wax off. Your girlfriend actually would have liked karate kit because there was a nice, you know, yeah, love story in it. My girlfriend and I did other things besides watch karate kid. You are fascinating. Finally, Mike McCarthy is defending himself against the bombshell Tyler Dunn article.

We had him on earlier and discussed it. And one of the accusations made was that McCarthy missed team meetings to get a massage. And McCarthy said that story is absurd. told NFL Network, I wouldn't even know where to start and stop with the article. About to say that I skipped, but to say that I skipped a team meeting for a massage is utterly absurd. I have a massage scheduled for tomorrow and I can promise you I will not miss my primary responsibility of picking up my two kids from school. All right. Well, guys deny stuff. Everybody denies stuff.

Of course he's going to deny that. We're just not going to come. The only way I think he couldn't deny it is what I said earlier. If he was like, yeah, I did get a massage because I was having a back spasm and I couldn't walk. So I didn't make the meeting because I had to go and fix my body. One stuff is on paper. I mean, here's how much people deny stuff that's written. Charles Barkley is the most outspoken guy in TV. He wrote an authorized

biography and denied something in the book. Remember Michael Wilbon wrote the, I think it was Michael Wilbon wrote the Charles Barkley like autobiography bookers. They wrote a book together. There was something in it and Charles denied it. Time out. It was authorized. I mean, everybody... I mean, this is a report.

You have the right to deny a report. I just, to me, that's the only way that that makes sense. Like that's something that could actually happen, just skipping a meeting to get a massage. Of course, he's going to defend himself and he has a right to. And there's a lot in that article that goes both ways. That massage therapist, I will tell you I have this sourced, was encouraged to be used by McCarthy other players.

There was actually somebody in the building thought it was a little bit of like they call it a mole. Like she was seeking information and very much asking, how are things? And very talkative and chatty and bordering on a little suspicious. And it was a real thing in the building. I think the one thing that that report showed is there was a clear disconnect in that relationship. And it probably is for the best moving forward for both of the people that they're not working together anymore. Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.

Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. By the way, he's the last college basketball player that I'm. I would wake up in the morning and I wanted to watch. But college basketball players now, it's one and done. They're not around.

Zion Williamson is the last player since Christian Leitner that got me jacked up to go watch a college basketball game. Christian was a All-American multiple years, dream teamer, two-time champ, actually made an NBA All-Star team. He's joining us via the Coward Global Satellite Network, the great Christian Leitner. First of all, Christian, we talked once before years and years ago, and I appreciate this. I want to start with this. I heard a lot of criticism about Mike Shashefsky, and you know, this team underachieved, and I thought to myself, wait a minute, you have these kids on campus for an hour and a half.

I didn't think Duke underachieved. I think one and done is hard to coach. What did you make of the way the season ended for Duke with all that talent? Hey, Colin, how are you doing? Great. Great. You know, I think the season ended a little disappointing for the team and the guys and the players on the team and the coaches and for the program. But as fans, I mean, we just got to take what we can get.

So I was very happy with the season. I loved watching every second of them playing, not only Zion. But, yeah, do I wish they got to the Final Four? Of course. And especially because it's here in Minneapolis. And I'm always at the Final Four. and I used to play for the Timberwolves up here. So it would be great if the Dukies were here,

but you can't make it every year. You know, the one and done is interesting. You were a bright kid. You had a point of view when you walked on to Duke's campus. But even you stayed for multiple years at Duke. Would you have been ready as a freshman to go to the NBA Christian? No, not even close. I think I could have maybe left after my junior year.

But not after my freshman and sophomore year, for sure. After my sophomore year, I was still only 230 pounds. So I don't think that's enough weight or enough muscle on me to be ready for the NBA. By the way, Zion, people have made comparisons. I see some Charles Barkley with him. What do you see, Christian? I think he reminds me of Shaq within five or six feet of the bucket. Like, he's just unstoppable when he's five or six feet of the bucket.

when he's five or six feet from the bucket. In the full court situation and transition, he reminds me a little bit of LeBron. And then for sure, he reminds me of Barclay in terms of his intensity and how hard he goes for the ball and how great of a rebounder he is. So he's a little bit of mixture of all three of those guys, if he asked me. You know, it's funny because I worry about his ligaments.

The kid is his torque, his power. I just haven't seen anybody that's bad. I don't worry about his game. I just worry about, I mean, I saw what he did to that shoe. Do you think he has to play lighter? You transition college to pro. Does he have to be a little lighter in the NBA? I totally agree with you.

He creates so much torque and explosiveness on his body that it's incredible. And I don't worry about his ligaments like you said, but I do worry about his flexibility. He is so muscle bound and so explosive. that I don't know if his flexibility is maybe as great as it could be. We saw him go down when he blew his shoe out and he pulled his groin and hurt his knee a little bit. And when you're an NBA player, you have to be extremely flexible also. So I'm sure they'll work on his flexibility. And I'm sure they'll try to get him down to maybe 11 or 10% body fat.

I think he's looking great right now. his body's probably at like 12% body fat. And they'll tighten him up a little bit in the NBA and they'll work on his flexibility. So when he does slip or he does twist an ankle, he's not out for an extended period of time. You know, Christian, a Duke is so well-run and so smart and so stable and players are so supported.

And then Duke players often go from that perfect environment. And then they go to a bad NBA team with a bad owner, bad players, and there's not as much stability. You know, tell me about when you go from Duke, they do it right, and you just have so much support. And then you often go to a lousy NBA team that's completely dysfunctional. Was that a problem for you in the NBA? Could it be a problem for Zion and Dukeies? Well, that's exactly why you choose to go play for Coach Kay, because you can tell that he's doing everything the right way.

He's doing everything basketball 101. When I was young, my father taught me to play defense first and to be an all-around good offensive player. So that's why I went to Duke because they use a motion offense and they allow their big guys to play outside. And sometimes when you're on an NBA team, it's not quite the same program, the same system. Maybe everything's not run at the highest level in terms of on the basketball court. but I'll tell you, Colin, I still loved every second that I was in the NBA, even when I was on NBA teams that didn't have a great record or we didn't make the playoffs. I loved every second of it.

Yeah, four final fours at Duke. You were an NBA All-Star. I remember a year in the NBA, I think you average about 19 and a half one year. You're one of the five. I remember when you played up against Shaq and you gave Shaq headaches. I covered your teams that beat you in LV and one that lost. You are as great a college players have ever seen. what's interesting in the NBA, you played with a wizard and an older Michael Jordan.

And, you know, LeBron now had his first injury. He's still great, but he's not quite LeBron of seven years ago. We go back to your Michael Jordan, he was still very, very good, but he wasn't Jordan, Jordan, right? What was it like? Well, he wasn't Jordan at his most prime, you know, when he was 27, 28 years old. but he was still unbelievable that year that we played for the Wizards together. And I think he scored 50 once and 40 a few times. So, you know, he was still incredible.

And I loved every second of it. And it was just a blessing for us to see him in D.C. for a year or two. Yeah. Listen, Christian, Landlake's bot shots, a horse competition among university teams built around basketball shooting robots. The event is Sunday at noon, a Dales L. High School in Minneapolis. It is free to the public. Christian, are you from Minneapolis, but you played there for years? You're from Buffalo, right?

Where are you from? I'm from Buffalo in New York, but yes, you know, I played for the Timberwolves. So I have great connections up here. I do my basketball camps up here all the time. And just think everyone will be able to see the Admiral David Robinson on Sunday at De LaSalle High School. Also one of the great guys of all time. Christian, absolute pleasure seeing you again. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Colin. Keep up the good work. All right. Thank you very much. Yeah, he was four final fours at Duke. That team, folks, Bobby Hurley, Brian Davis, Grant Hill, Christian Leitner. And I remember when Leitner went up against Shaq in college,

Leitner gave him fits because he pulled Shaq away from the basket. Leightner was a six-elem, you know, Leitner was a little bit like Dirknavitzky. Six-11 and a half long, quick, and could shoot. I mean, he was, Leitner was and people always think, oh, it didn't work in the NBA. He had several good years, made an All-Star team. He made the dream team, by the way, as a college kid.

He made the dream team. The MJ Barkley dream team. Good stuff. Coming up tomorrow's headlines today with J-Mac, Jason McIntyre, do not go anywhere. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app.

The big lead.com. Also, Fox Sports Radio, every Saturday for three hours. Great show called The Big League coming up. Winners podcast. Okay, every Friday we do it. Jason McIntyre, we do this. I went to the 900 Club last night. I missed you.

Didn't even call me, huh? Went to the 900 Club with my son, knocked down meatballs. With the 12-year-old? My 13-year-old now. We knocked down beers. No. I knocked down a beer and I had meatballs. And that's the place usually you and I go in Manhattan Beach.

Why are you giving that out now? People are going to just be hanging out there all the time. It's a private club. You know, you can't just nobody else can go there. We should go there and watch the final four. Oh, no, you have no interest in the final four. I'm going to watch an illusionist in Vegas on Sunday. Magic. Get out of here with that.

Okay, Jason McIntyre. We call this tomorrow's headlines today, the J-MAC Journal. Who is the NBA MVP? Well, you watched that game last night, right? Thrilling game, Sixers' Bucks. I think the headline about the NBA MVP is easy, Colin. My big fat Greek MVP. Listen, I don't see how this is a discussion.

It's got to be honest. Don't give me this guy who dribbles 500 times a game, right? He's just going between the legs for 20 seconds, each possession. James Harden. Janus has to be the guy. He has to. And he's also, this is somewhat of a popularity contest. It's one of those things where, you know what happens with the sports writers that cover the NBA?

They feel like they need to reward like a special year. Like Westbrook, triple double. We don't think he's going to win titles, but let's give it to him. Harden, he's never going to beat LeBron or the Warriors. Let's give it to him. It feels like it's the give it to him year, even if he didn't have a great year. I mean, Janice and the Bucks, right?

They were the seven seed last year. They're now the number one seat in the East, best record in the league. Janus leads him in assists. This is a situation where I think you're right. The media saw last year, hey, we gave it to Hardin. What happened?

They missed 27 straight threes in game seven at home, choked it away. It's a regular season award. It is, but the postseason does matter. No, it doesn't. It literally doesn't matter. Well, not for this award. But that's why we didn't see Russell Westbrook,

He averaged a triple double. They gave him the MVP. He averaged a triple double again. No MVP. Average a triple double again this year. Not even in the discussion. Postseason matters in the head of the voters. I would say, again, I think it's a gift.

The MVP's become a gift. It's like... Doesn't Yonis deserve it? He does. This year he does. But I would say Westbrook didn't because he had the triple double. That's an incredible accomplishment. He doesn't play any defense.

And again, we've talked about this. And everybody's worse when they play with him. The Warriors don't even try in the regular season at this point. Not when they pick their spot. So should Curry and Kevin Durant be eliminated from MVP consideration? Because they take 20 nights off during the season? Curry and LeBron became a victim of themselves.

They're so good at what they do, we just stop paying attention. It's like at some point, Curry is the most valuable. Their greatness became boring. So how can you give an award on the regular season when we say all year the playoffs matter? Well, that changed the award. That's maybe a good idea. Don't give it until after the regular season. All right.

Is Kevin Durant going to the Knicks tomorrow? was headline today. You know, Rick Buecker made some headline news this week with his prediction. And I got to say, do you remember what happened a couple years ago, Kevin Durant, where he announced his departure from Oklahoma City? I think the headline will be my next chapter. I'm staying. Thank you.

Okay, Colin, here it is. Here it is. Okay, 2016, we're leading up to July 1st. Kevin Durant was still in the thunder. And about 97% of the media predicted he's just going to stay. And then he left. Right now, everybody is saying, Knicks, Knicks, Knicks, what do you think Kevin Durant could do?

Hey, I could stay in Golden State win four straight titles. That's something that Jordan never did, LeBron never did, Magic, Larry Bird. Kevin Durant wins four straight, puts himself in rarefied air. He instantly becomes a top 10 player in NBA history. No question. There's no doubt. You do a one plus one contract. Just one year, then an option out.

He could win four straight. I think he could do that. I think that's where he's leaning right now again. We've got two months, three months to go. I completely... It makes the most sense for Durant. I've moved four times. You make these moves when you have an epiphany.

He's going to hold the MVP trophy, and it's not going to feel like it does today. Has the title window closed for LeBron? Tomorrow's headlines today. This is a tough one. We've seen people selling superstars quickly. And we're seeing a lot of LeBron. It's over.

I've been listening to you this week, Hammer LeBron, a little bit. I think the headline will be. return of the king, Colin. A lot of people sold Peyton Manning. Remember when he had his neck injury? Oh, he's done. The Colts said, let's... Okay.

He went and in Denver 55 touchdowns, won a Super Bowl the following year. Andrew Luck. He's not a top five quarterback. He's hurt. Comes back. He was phenomenal this year. Just because LeBron was hurt. Just because he missed the most games in his career and the Lakers missed the playoffs,

I think it would be foolish to sell stock in LeBron. Remember, this could be a blessing in disguise. When you go to the finals, eight straight years, Colin. He's worn out. That's 20 extra games each postseason. That's two extra seasons, about 160 games. I think this is a phenomenal break for LeBron. I think he's going to be Space Jam 2.

He's filming that this summer. That's going to be a recruiting tool for LeBron. Hey, Kyrie, Anthony Davis, come check out Space Jam 2. Yeah, L.A. I really do think LeBron is going to be able to pull off the unthinkable. Everybody's saying nobody wants to come here. Did you read the story in the Bleacher Report? this week? It's going to be tough for LeBron to get anybody. Maybe he gets

DeMarcus cousins or something like, just be patient, okay? I would not sell stock in LeBron James. Will Aaron Rogers make another Super Bowl tomorrow's headlines today? Colin, this was one of the worst stories I've read about a star player in years. Agreed. Absolutely brutal. The headline will be Fail Mary. Aaron Rogers, one of the great Hail Mary passers in NFL history. I don't think he's getting to another Super Bowl. And our great researcher who prepped me for this said, do you remember Brett Favre got to a Super Bowl early won it in Green Bay? Then got to another, never got to another one after that. I don't think Aaron Rogers can make another Super Bowl. Well, first of all, Matt

Nagy is one of the great young coaches in football. He's got to play him twice a year. Kalil Max's going nowhere. So there are real issues having to face a great coach and a Lawrence Taylor-level pass rusher, not to mention most of the NFC outside of New England, the next eight best teams in the league. It is a lot of NFC teams you'd have to get through. If Russell Wilson stays in Seattle, I don't want to say Aaron Rogers is done. The talent is obviously there.

But Minnesota Vikings are good. One of my sleepers, we'll talk about them this summer, the Detroit Lions. I know, that's fine. Everybody laughs at them. That division is going to be brutal. But how does Aaron Rogers face his teammates? I was talking with Greg Jennings here at FS1 about this. It's not going to be an easy

sell when he walks into that. Everybody's reading this story. It's on every show. There's a report out there that he hasn't talked to his new coach, Matt LaFleur, since he's been hired. I don't know how accurate that is, but that's three months, Colin. I know. It's weird. Aaron Rogers, man. It's weird. You've got to clean this up.

It's a family stuff. They haven't met in person is the story. Okay. But it's also, he doesn't talk to his family, him and. Well, no, his family did join him in Milwaukee. He has a strained relationship, it appears, with his brother. With everybody. Well, he's difficult.

I've been tough on him. I think he's a little aloof. He's a little California cool. And I think now you can't deny any of that. Okay, finally, thoughts on the Jets' new uniforms. Tomorrow's headlines today. As the biggest Jets homer in the sports media world, I'm going to steal a phrase from a guy you know well.

The headline for the new Jets jerseys, look good, feel good, play good. Dionne Sanders, of course. I don't know why people are bashing this. Joy, I know. Joy, the Dolphins fan. She's got to love these jette. I was actually at the Dolphins unveiling for when they unveiled their new uniforms. It's a fun little event.

Certainly. I like the black. The black ones are right. Very good. I've already ordered my Sam Darnal jersey. Have you? This is a playoff team. We can scoff.

Colin, I'm telling you, everybody watching out there. Now, go look at the AFC East Futures, okay? No Grankowski. Tom Brady's going to be 42. I saw it at seven, which is obscene. Oh, God. I'll spend the money. by the afternoon.

Listen, brand new coach, Adam Gaze, Jameson Crowder, Levy on Bell. I'm buying a lamb bowl with my jets over under. See you Monday. Last night,

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me. And he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

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If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of you. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in too, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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