The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Russell Westbrook, Kyler Murray, and the NFL draft

Episode Date: April 24, 2019

Colin discusses Portland Trail Blazers series win over the Oklahoma City Thunder, how players like Blazers G Damian Lillard are changing the game, what the Thunder should do with G Russell Westbrook, more on where QB Kyler Murray may land in the NFL draft, and the Oakland Raiders possibly leaking stories. Guests include Nick Wright, Ric Bucher, Enes Kanter, and Jim Jackson. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Rick Buecker, Jeff Schwartz, Jim Jackson, Nick Wright, Joy Taylor. That was her voice you just heard for our radio audience. Joy, how are you? That was wild. Great game. That's one of the best playoff games I can ever remember. Seriously, that is the best playoff game I've watched. It almost felt like Golden State and LeBron, Kyrie, hitting the shot. I was just completely riveted, so let's start with there.

Listen, I'm not going to bring out the hammer on Westbrook today. What's the point? Why be mean-spirited? I'm not a bully. that game wasn't about Westbrook. My game was about Damian Lillard. The series was about Damian Lillard. Westbrook got you to the series. Just like movie stars get you into the theater. And then you watch the movie and you realize there's a new movie star.

It's official. Damian Lillard has moved himself in to the top four elite point guards in the league. I'd call him the killers. Steph, Harden, Lillard, and Kyrie. They are the killers. You don't want the ball near their hands with a minute left. Westbrook, okay, I'll be a jerk once. He's the momentum killer.

That final sequence, Oklahoma City had this game one. It was going back to the Midwest. The final sequence is what just drives me crazy. Paul George was absolutely on fire. 14 of 20 shots. If it wasn't for Lillard's amazing series, it was a Paul versus Damien series. series. And Westbrook had the ball and you'd think you'd want to get it to the hottest guy in the world not named Damien Lillard. And here's what transpired.

Eight on the shot clock. End game clock. Westbrook into the lane on Amidu. Forced up a shot. Rebound and rebound in chief. In a tie ball game, Damien will bring it up the floor with 14. You want the last shot. Damien clears mid-court. He's got 11. Tied at 1-15. Crowd rising to the feet. George will defend Lillard. Spread floor. Lillard with 47 a night. Working it down to two to one, a deep three. Unbelievable. Again, this is not about hammering Westbrook. I said it yesterday. He's a relentless talent, uneven, a little stubborn for me,

but he's moving away from the current game. Lillard is an amazing talent who's moving toward it. That final sequence, one guy put on a 1995 move trying to draw the foul, the other guy pulled up and nailed a 37-footer. It's the way the world works. You can still defend Westbrook. Hell of a talent. You can still idolize him, buy his jersey.

I get it. He's fun. He got us all into this series. He got us into the theater. I watch him constantly. Westbrook gets me to the theater. But once I watch the movie, I like the new young movie star, the 28-year-old who went to Weber State, who's up in the Northwest.

He's the new movie star. He's a killer. By the way, I can put up the stats and the numbers. It was lobsided. One guy average 33 a game, one average 22, one shot 46%. Westbrook had a minus 43 in the Silord series. Lillard had a plus 55. Again, there's no reason to drop the hammer.

No reason to bag on the old movie star. I just like the new one. I just like the new one. Last night, listen, Westbrook got his triple double. He's a monster. He's a triple double monster. He's an athletic tornado. He's unbelievably relentless.

But as I said yesterday, the game's moving away from him and the game is moving toward Russell Westbrook. And I think it's a very difficult time. Royce Young covers this franchise OKC, and he has been a Westbrook defender as I have been relentlessly on Russell. But he said something in his column last night and it sounds like to me it's time for something parents do with their kids

when they move into teenage years. It's time for the big. talk. Royce Young said, when the thunder were rolling mid-season, Paul George might have been the best player in the league. The thunder took on Paul George's identity. Westbrook happily took a step back. George was the best player. Westbrook, the complimentary piece. Westbrook was playing a different style, staying on the ball less, hockey assisting more, taking smarter shots. But then Paul George got hurt, and the thunder transition back to being Westbrook's team. The locker room was more serious and tense, with each game feeling significant, each loss frustrating.

Oklahoma City, it's time for the big talk with Russ. You sit him down and how it lands, it lands. You say, Russ, you're going to get your money. We love you. It's the same thing parents tell teenagers, but we're going to have a little sea change here. This is Paul George's franchise. Last night, Westbrook took 11 more shots than Paul George. We just can't have that. We just going forward, that can't be the case anymore.

It's the big talk the parents give the teenage kids. Now, the parents have an advantage. They've got built in authority. Their parents, year 16. Westbrook has a four-year deal, and they've enabled him. Ice cream for breakfast. Hugs after losses. Defending him after bad performances. I'm not sure how it's going to land. I did like Westbrook after the game, put his glasses on, was humble, admitted he wanted to look in the mirror. So if you're okay, see, there's hope. I did like this from Westbrook last night. My process always look at myself first and figure out what I could have done better throughout the whole season to put our team position to be able to win games.

That's all I look at and figure out how I can be better, you know, coming back and how I could did better to help us win the game. Like that a lot. It's no time for me to be a bully. No time for me to hammer Westbrook. He got us all into the theater. There's just a new cooler movie star now. Damien Lillard.

Let me shift to this. Damien's shot was the 37-footer heard around the world. And after the game, Paul George says, I don't like that shot. I mean, that's a bad shot. I care what anybody says. That's a bad shot. But, hey, he made it. That story won't be told that it was a bad shot.

We live with that. Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, and James Harden. That's not a bad shot. That's a new shot. And there's a big difference. Damian Lillard was 8 of 12 from 30 plus feet. Four of six last night. Steph Curry has changed this game.

If the NBA had a new logo, you know the old one, it's Jerry West. If they had a new one, it should be Steph Curry launching from 33 feet. I do not believe last night was a bad shot. It's a new shot. This is what the new logo should look like, Steph from 34. Russell Wilson has done this to the National Football League. Russell Wilson has proved. Athletic 5-11, occasionally run for first downs, that can win Super Bowls too.

That can be the cornerstone of an NFL franchise too. Smaller, run around a lot, hyper-athletic, make throws, but Steph Curry has changed the NBA. That's not a bad shot. It's a new shot. And Russell Wilson is why Kyler Murray gets drafted and why 5-11 and a half Baker-Mayfield gets drafted. and why Johnny Mansell got drafted and why next year there's going to be another 5-11 six-foot guy that's going to get drafted.

LeBron did this a lot in the NBA. He was a positionless player. It used to be the point guard was a one, shooting guard was a two, small forward was a three, the power forward was a four, and the center was a five. And then LeBron came in and went, and we got this guy in Cleveland.

Yeah, he can do all that stuff. He can do one through four easy and five if we have to. And LeBron sort of made the league really labelless and really positionless. I just think in pro football, 70 years ago, they used to use this term. Well, it's the forward pass. Because apparently before that, they had backward passes. Now it's just you pass.

Used to be called the forward pass. Then the game changed. This is what Amazon has done to retail. They've eliminated malls. It used to be, you'd say, are you going to do some online shopping? And that's no longer a term. Now, all shopping is online. shopping.

They're game changers. Steph Curry, Russell Wilson, and Amazon. That was not a bad shot. Not a lot of others can take it, but it's a new shot for Damian Lillard Hardin and Steph Curry. All sorts of fun today. So we got the NFL draft tomorrow. And everybody's lining up with Arizona.

They're taking Kyler Murray. They're not taking Kyler Murray. and we will give you the very latest. There's some interesting anonymous sources coming out on this story. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Great to have you in today. Wild, wild NBA night last night. OKC Portland's one of the best games I've seen in years. Congrats to the Blazers. They move on. and Oklahoma City moves on as well to a very interesting offseason. So NFL draft is tomorrow.

The number one story is obviously Arizona. What are they going to do with the number one pick? So I'm hearing a million things. Mel Kuiper yesterday said it's 99% sure Arizona has taken Kyler Murray. Peter King agrees. Joel Klatt said this week he's got a source. Antonio Bryant, a former NFL player, says no, they're taking Nick Bosa. the coach of Arizona, Cliff Kingsbury said, we're still working through it.

I'm getting a million different angles on this. Here's kind of where I fall on this is that the fact that they're still considering taking Tyler Murray, that's basically code for we're taking him. We're just waiting for the best offer for Josh Rosen. That's what it feels like for me. If you're still talking about this and aren't closing the door on it, that tells me you're just sitting around waiting for a better phone call. Washington, New York, somebody gives you a better phone call.

Maybe the Chargers, who knows. I will say this, first of all, selfishly, I work at Fox. We have the NFC. Selfishly, I'd love to see Kyler Murray go to Arizona because it's a really interesting team. I'm going to have a division on the West Coast with Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson, Jared Goff, and Jimmy G. Yeah, I'll take that, please. Fox, we have that division. For us here in the building, it's great for business.

Arizona's unwatchable. They'll be like Cleveland last year with Baker. Can't keep your eyes off it. So selfishly, I'd love to see it happen. And I also selfishly, I know Josh Rosen and his mom, I'd like to see him go somewhere that he's got a shot to succeed, like a New York where they've got some nice offensive pieces. Yesterday, a bunch of stuff came out on Kyler Murray.

This is the way it always works out. People get anonymous. They take shots at all these young quarterbacks. This happened to Rosen right before he got picked. Nobody liked him, blah, blah, blah. Now they're coming out to attack Kyler Murray, said one anonymous scout, I'd be scared to death to take him. He does not like the process a month.

to Saturday. He just loves Sunday. All right. Okay. That's fair. And here's another guy comes out and he says, Baker had an elite skill, accuracy. Kyler's accurate, not anywhere near Baker. Baker's like a gym rat. Everybody loves him. Kyle, Kyler, I don't think he's a big film football guy. He's like, hey, I'll do whatever the coaches say make plays.

Well, I would say there's a lot more ways than one way to lead. Here's the way I look at it. The world's evolving. Just like basketball went from two-point shot to three. The world's evolving with quarterback. So we've got to just understand. it's not the same old, same old. You can still hit Chris Paul still shoots mid-range shots. Kevin Durant still hits mid-range shots.

You can still score that way, and you can still be an immobile quarterback. Matt Ryan, Jared Goff. But you got to remember, here's my whole thing. If you decide to take Kyler Murray, then you've got to go all in on this stuff because he's going to spill some paint. Kyler Murray reminds me of three players, Russell Wilson, Johnny Mansell, and Michael Vick. Two of those three were successful. Josh Rosen reminds me.

of three quarterbacks. Matt Ryan, Jared Gough, and a little academic Peyton Manning, kind of a brainiac. All three were successful. But that's five out of six that were successful. And Johnny Mansell may have been, but he had an addiction issue. Both ways work. But if you go in on Kyler Murray, it's a non-traditional way to do it. And you may not have all your coaches in the room that buy it. You may have an old football coach that likes a pocket guy. What you're going to do is what Seattle struggled initially to do, hand the franchise over to him. Seattle pushed back on Russell for about three years. Now it's Marchand's team.

It's Pete's team. It's Richard Sherman's team. No, it's Russell's team. You were in 7 to 9, 7 to 9 before Russell Wilson got there, and he started winning your games, not cornerbacks and not head coaches. The quarterback did. So you've got to build a staff that is all in on Kyler Murray and totally support him. And this just isn't a football topic.

When you do something that's new to a market, You got to have everybody all in. You don't want snipers in the building. You don't want negative old guy in the building. You've got to go all in on it. Russell Wilson had to kind of overcome first couple of years in Seattle. A lot of doubters. Some of them in his own locker room.

Some of them on defense. Some of them on the staff. Because when you're doing something a new way, all these rookie quarterback stumble. They all stumble. Baker out of three interception game. Peyton Manning had his third year in the league, I think, had like 30 picks or something. So when you try something new and you're a rookie quarterback and you're going to stumble, you don't want snipers in the building going, yeah, I told you he's too short.

Yeah, I told you, you're a run-around guy. You've got to go all in on him. And I think Cliff Kingsbury would be all in on him. So I think you can win both ways. You can win with Rosen. It's got a very Peyton Manning. I need good tackles. I'm a distributor.

I'm pre-snapping it to death. Or they can go Kyler Murray, who's more instinct. instinctive. He's more of a creator than he is a distributor. I'm okay with both. And I think we're moving, like the three-point shot in basketball, we're moving toward the Kyler-Murie style, and we're slowly moving away from the Josh Rosen style. But at this point, a lot more Super Bowl's won the Rosen style than the Kyler style. Selfishly, it's a fascinating move. It's a fascinating move. The NFL has got something going right now that's really cool. Really unwatchable teams are becoming fascinating overnight.

We always watch the Cowboys. We always watch the Patriots. We always watch the Steelers. We always watch the Packers. But these awful teams, Cleveland and boring jets, and suddenly they're like, you can't take your eyes off them. And Arizona would go from unwatchable to you'd literally wake up Sunday go, what time is Arizona on?

And it's a really good thing for the league. And my gut feeling is Arizona is going to be Kyler Murray's team here within 24 hours. Here's Joy with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, as of just a few minutes ago, according to Adams Shepter,

the Steelers were working on a contract extension with Ben Rapposberger. And now, according to Ian Rappaport, the Steelers have finalized a two-year extension for Ben Ropisberger. Sources say he now has three years total on his deal and Pittsburgh beats their deadline of the draft. he was making on his final year of this contract,

he was scheduled to make $12 million in 2019. So they have just wrapped up. What are the numbers? Do we know the numbers yet? It literally just, like, literally just came out. He was going to talk about them possibly doing one and discuss that. And then they literally just said that they have agreed to it, but there's no numbers yet.

I mean, this made sense for the Steelers. Ben Hobbesberg is still playing at a very high level. Yeah, he had a good year last year. Yeah, despite all the drama and leadership questions and all of that that was going on with Levy on Bell and Antonio Brown and everything else. He's still the guy in Pittsburgh and they needed to lock it up.

So this made sense for them. And to do it before the draft, there's no questions about what they're going to do. I do think in the next year or so, they need to draft a quarterback if not this year. Yeah. And I know Ben Rothesberger has been very resistant to grooming his replacement,

but eventually you have to come to terms with the fact that you are more, and it's going to end at some point or another. I think Ben and Brady would both be okay this year if you said, listen, we're going to give you three more years, but we got to draft the next guy. And I think that's easier to do. I mean, Ben's taking some shots publicly and physically. Like, I think Ben knows now this is the last deal.

I think it's one more year for Ben before he starts accepting that. I think Brady's probably a little bit closer because he's had more success as a reason. I think Ben probably feels like he still has a little bit left to prove. Yes. I know Brady probably thinks that too, but he literally doesn't have anything left to prove. I just, I'm very interested to see how Ben handles it. Brady, too, because obviously everything I have with Jimmy Garoppolo, but I think that was clearly a few years too early.

Oh, no question. But Ben is openly said he's not interested in doing that. So I don't know. It'll be cool to see them kind of put their arms around the next guy if they find the next guy. But who knows? The way the two of them reacted to that, they made. just never do it. Thompson played it was 50, right? Time to see who's going places sponsored by Toyota. Let's go places.

Damian Lillard sent the trailblazers to the second round of the NBA playoffs last night on his buzzer beating three-pointer. After hitting the shot, Lillard waved goodbye to the thunder and as his teammates ran out on the court to celebrate and tackled him. Here's what Lillard had to say after the game about his reaction. I mean, the game, the series was over. That was it. And I was just waving goodbye to him. After game three, you know, Dennis Schroeder was out there pointing to his wrist. They was out there doing all these celebrations and doing all this stuff. And we kept our composure.

And after one win, that was what they decided to do. And we was just like, okay, what we want to do is win four games. When we win those four games, it's not going to be nothing to talk about. So that's what that was. He did more of a goodbye and a stop talking kind of way. you didn't really do like the pageant wave. I'm generally not a big fan of taunting. But I think this series is, I thought it was, you know,

when's the last time a five-game series? Because it was kind of a lobsided series. Was this fascinating? No, it was great. So many components. It was great. It's like you said, Westbrook created the theater for all of us. It was very aggressive, very physical.

Also. Tons of storylines. And he has said the entire time, he was not going to allow all the taunting and all of the trotting and all of the trash shocking to affect the Blazers and himself. So the game's over now, so you can say what you want. And Russ is very, very animated. And I think Russ brings out this.

I mean, Russ is rocking the baby and Russ is raw, raw guy. And I think you sit there and you watch that as an opponent. You're guarding him. And so you go home and do a little bit too. It didn't bother me at all. I'm not a huge fan of players taunting other players. That's not a shot of Westbrook. I just not a big fan of it.

I think it can lead to ugly stuff. But I will say this. For a five-game series, they're usually snoozers. This was fascinating. I loved it. And it's one of those shots where I really was watching. I'm like, okay, great.

Like, we're going to get a little overtime. Like, let's go. Let's see if the aggression, you know, continues. And he hits it. And you're just like, like, even the coach is like, I can't even, I don't even have words for what just happened. But Paul George is kind of right. Like, there's nothing more he could have done.

to defend that shot. You kind of got to live with it. Yeah. I mean, it is a new shot, but not everyone can hit that. And finally, the Lakers have started the search for their new head coach following the departure of Luke Walton. Tyloon and Monty Williams seemed to be the frontrunners. But now there is a third candidate officially in the mix, according to Broderick Turner of

the L.A. Times, Rob Polinka and Kurt Rambus interviewed Jason Kidd yes or on Monday. And Kit has expressed interest in coaching the Lakers. You know, he talked about it a little bit while the season was still going. going on. He's not expected to have a serious shot at landing the job, according to the report in LA Times. But he has been interviewed for that report. I don't know. I'm, I've said from the beginning, I think that Tyloo is the one for the job. Amani Williams would also be obviously a good candidate. I don't know that Jason Kidd solves any of the problems that the Lakers have, but I don't know. We're all, we're all just on this Lakers train, just following along.

Yeah, joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. Well, I'm very interested to see the reaction this morning from my friend Nick Wright on First Things First co-host with Chris Carter. So let's go via the Coward Global Satellite Network. First year reaction. Second, where do the thunder go from here? Well, the reaction on the Dame side of things is you're right that he is one of, in my mind, two guys who that's not a bad shot for that walked the face of the earth, him and Stefan

Curry. and Damian Lillard to come back from what was the highest point and the lowest point of his professional career. Last year, first team all-MBA for the first time, has his team in great position to advance in the playoffs without Lamarcus Aldridge. And then they're swept out by an underman Pelicans team to follow that up with this series, this moment of 50-point playoff game, something Kareem never did, Shaq never did, Steph and Kady never have done. and this shot right there, it's an unbelievable story for a guy who has jumped a few tears in the current NBA Pantheon. Now, to what you're really interested in, the Russell Westbrook libel, that is no longer libel. You do that incredibly annoying segment, where Colin was right. This is where Colin was right. I don't know what to say other than he,

he is our generation's Iverson, and that's not a bad thing. But in 2019, it is not necessarily a good thing. And I even brought a few numbers along to support you. Here is how Oklahoma City Thunder seasons have ended the last seven times they've been in the playoffs. With Russ going 11 of 28, 4 of 20, 8 of 23, 7 of 21, 15 of 34. 18 of 43, and then last night, 11 of 31. Like a lot of shots, not a lot of makes some bad decisions. I love him. I adore how hard he plays. But is he a super high level, effective player in 2019?

Unfortunately, this appears to be where Colin was right. Well, as your mentor, I am not going to hammer my young stallion today. So let's move to something that is more interesting for both of us. where do you go from here if you're the thunder, Nick? What do you go from here? Yeah. So listen, my partner, Chris Carter today said, you build your team around Paul George.

They are obviously capped out. They've got four more years of Russ at $170 million. They got two more years at Stephen Adams of $53 million. They got Paul George locked up. They're paying a shrewder $30 million over the next two years. So this is going to be your team plus Roberson coming back. I am really skeptical that it, team built around Paul George can get to where they need to get to. Here's why. We saw Russell

Westbrook as a secondary option with the best player on the team being Kevin Durant. And that team had a ceiling. Paul George is great. He's not Kevin Durant. And Russell Westbrook might not be as good now as he was then. So if with a younger, more athletic, Russell Westbrook is your number two and Kevin Durant as your number one, you had a ceiling. What are you when it's Paul Georgia is your number one and this version of Russ is your number two. Next year the NBA is going to be different, Colin, because Katie's going to be in New York and a lot more teams are going to feel like they have a chance. But OKC is a tier below the teams that are a tier below.

Portland is excited for next year. Utah is excited for next year. But OKC in the last years hasn't been able to get past Portland, hasn't been able to get past Utah, and there's no mellow to blame this time. They're in a rough spot, which is, I know we're not talking Lakers and you, I mean, you talked about a madlibs of awful Lakers quotes. Kurt Rambis interviews, Jason, kid, the hell is going on. But that's why the Lakers should call Sam Presti and say, hey, man, we got a parachute for you if you think this team that you've built has reached its ceiling and it's not great. Yeah, no, I think what they're going to be to answer your question.

If you have Paul George is the guy in Russell as your two, you're the best version of what you can be. and I think that's better than the worst version of what you can be where Paul kind of waits for Westbrook to make the decision. So let's segue to this. Yeah, but it's not a championship contender. And that's the killer. Yeah, no, no, it's not. And by the way, it's not.

Utah didn't win a championship. Phoenix and Barclay didn't. We have a history of really great teams not winning championships and really talented teams. I don't think we can just take the hammer out and beat up Russell Westbro. solely. Paul Georgia's shoulder was an issue. Stephen Adams does not have, you can't have Stephen Adams on the floor late in these big games. Billy Donovan, good coach, great, I'm not sure.

Sam Presti let Hardin go. So I don't think it's all on Westbrook. It's easy today to blame him for everything, but I thought even last night he had some magical moments. Let's shift to this. You're in New York City. You know, I'm a big believer in. You whiffed on Sam Donald. Don't whiff on DeWain Haskins. Big, strong, not super athletic. everything I hear about Haskins other than a sort of plotting feat I like. What is your takeaway in New York, reading the New York papers every day? They got the six pick and the 17th. They've got an old Eli.

Where do the Giants go from here? I think they should take Haskins, but my take is that everything that I'm hearing and what I'm reading, and it seems my TV partner and good friend Chris Carter's got real intel on this. He just won't quite say, which is they're going defensive. at six and hoping to get their quarterback at 17. And that right there is a broken philosophy. There is a truism when it comes to the NFL draft, and we will see teams screw it up this year.

And that is this. If a quarterback is worth any first round pick, then he is worth more than every other player in the draft other than quarterbacks who are better. And by that I mean this. There is no career arc for a quarterback, where he goes 17 and it's a good pick, but it would have been a bad pick at 6.

If you take a quarterback in the first round and 10 years later it was a good pick, it's because he's a franchise guy. If you take a quarterback in the first round and 10 years later it's a bad pick, it's because he wasn't. So this idea that, oh, there's a quarterback we like, but we don't like him at 6,

well, then you sure is hell better not like him at 17 because there is no player that fits that narrow window. bad pick at six, good pick at 17. So if the Giants pass on a quarterback at six, that better mean they're not going quarterback at all. If they go, if they go Ed Oliver at six and the kid from Duke at 17, then Dave Gettelman is exactly what I think he is, in over his head and trying to play caveman football.

Because that guy does not exist. Teams get this wrong every year. If you believe in a quarterback enough to take him in the first round, then he is more valuable than ever. every other player taken in that first round, except for quarterbacks who are better, why they won't do what's staring them in the face. Oh, the kid who played a pro-style offense, who's the right size, who won almost, won every game he played but won, broke all of Ohio states and Drew Breeze's Big Ten records.

We don't want him. I don't get it, but I don't get a lot of things the Giants have done over the last couple of years. Totally agree. Finally, Arizona, Kyler Murray, Kuyper said it's going to happen. Joel Klatte, Peter King, couple players said it's not. What's your take on the whole situation? It's going to happen, but this is another thing that I wouldn't do. You can't blame your awful season on the coach and then also say,

but our quarterback stunk and the guy who picked the coach and trade it up for the quarterback, he gets to pick the new coach and help pick the new quarterback. It doesn't make any damn sense. Arizona has this, an aging Hall of Fame wide receiver, a superstar corner, a very good pass. and a running back who was good a couple years ago. We'll see what he is now. And that's it. Use that number one pick. Call up John Gruden, who is dying for it. Get Oakland's pick at four. Get the pick they got from Dallas. Get another pick. Support Josh Rosen. Instead of giving him the

32nd ranked run offense and the 32nd ranked pass blocking O line and build a football team. That's what you should do. What they will do is draft Kyler Murray, sell Josh. Josh Rosen to the Patriots for 40 cents on the dollar, and your guy, Tom Brady, is going to get to hand off to my guy, Josh Rosen, and I'm getting sick just thinking about. It always works out well for the Patriots. By the way, listen, you're going to be right a lot going forward. A little, you took the wrong, a little, the wrong exit off the Westbrook Freeway, but I'm there for you. I'm your support system. And I don't, I want you to sleep well.

Listen, I want you to know, I'm sad for Russ. because I love him. When it comes to me and this, it's really good for these spots that you finally got an NBA thing right. So I'm happy for us. We were going to have to cut these things off. Like, I'm glad you got one, Colin.

You got one in the wind, Colin. We'll keep it moving. All right. Good seeing you, buddy. Nick Wright, first things first. NFL draft tomorrow. Rick Buecker next hour, Jeff Schwartz, Enos Canter,

who's a funny guy. I swear to Ennis Canter last night was holding his hip all night. He was all beat up. He played. You know, it's funny. You think about the NFL and you think about the injury. These NBA guys, I mean, how many guys in the NBA are playing 100% healthy? Embed miss games.

Especially this time of year. I think he heard his shoulder too. Yeah, he heard his shoulder. I mean, with football, we just assume there's going to be injuries because of the, it's a collision sport. But basketball is a contact sport. Oh, yeah. And we just like forget that. And they're not wearing pads.

And it's 82 games. And it's the game ends. You're on a flight. You land somewhere at 3.30 a.m. Get six hours asleep. Shoot around. Go back. Take a nap.

It just wears on you. Like you think you could take a charge from Russell Westbro? Oh, no. No. By the way, Stephen Adams is enormous. Can you imagine getting on an airplane? He's got the middle seat. That guy is enormous.

I generally get stuck with the middle seat. Yeah. Coming up next, I'm begging to have somebody like you sit next to me on a plane. Are you kidding me? Over here wide open. When the big heavy guy comes, I always put like a blanket on the seat. Yeah, somebody's got it. Somebody's got it.

You don't want to rub elbows the whole fight? Yeah, coming up next. The Raiders did it again yesterday. They're leaking stories. The very latest coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context

and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies, I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness,

professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WMBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like. you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it.

An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports.

Don't skip meals anymore. Drink Soylent, a complete meal in a bottle, plant protein, essential nutrients. For a limited time, 20% off your first case if you go to Soylent.com and put in the code Herd-20. You ever, and I'm not sure if these exist as much in the Midwest, but I lived the last 10 years, previous 12 years on the East Coast, and now I live in the West Coast, and you see a lot of architecture where there's these houses that they have a lot of glass. You can kind of peer into the house. And whenever I'm in the car with my wife and I see one of those houses, I'm like, I just don't

want people to see me eating soup in my underwear. I don't want to live in a fishbowl. The Raiders are officially the glass house of the NFL. Everything has become public. According to Mike Silver, the Raiders are prepping their general manager, Mike Mayock, with practice drafts. Now, this is not new, but the fact this story gets out over the last several days, they want to see if Mayock, a former TV guy, out of football for the last decade or so, is prepared to handle the flexibility, the nimbleness that is required in the NFL draft.

Mike, my story remains, I do not know why all these stories keep getting out. The Raiders have become the teenage girl that puts everything on. Instagram. Her workouts, her meals, bathroom shots, enough. I've seen enough of your life. I think the Raiders are trying to win tomorrow night. That's what I think they're trying to do. Because it's a lame duck season in Oakland, they're not selling tickets, and they're moving to Las Vegas. And the Golden Knights got a lot of the hockey team in Vegas is beloved, and they've sold a lot of tickets more than anybody thought they would, and the Raiders got to sell tickets. and they want to win tomorrow night.

And right now, the revenues drawing up. They're paying Trent Brown, highest paid left tackling football. And they're paying Antonio Brown's the highest paid wide receiver, I believe. And somebody's got to write those checks and sign those checks. And you've got to have money in the bank. And you'd think everybody has it. But we know that some teams like Stan Cronky, the Rams, richest NFL owner now that Paul Allen has passed, the reason they can sign all those guys, they've got a lot of money in the bank in the off season.

I think the Raiders are just trying to sell season tickets. Well, much like the teenage girls. on Instagram who posts everything that she does. It's the theory of if you post your breakfast, did you actually have breakfast? And that's kind of what I think the Raiders are doing. They're kind of trying to show like, oh, we are doing all these things,

and we are really functional, and we really are very active, and we have all these big plans, a big surprise for the draft, when in reality, we shouldn't be hearing anything from you. By the way, why would you announce and leak a story to Ian Rappaport

that you've got a big surprise at four? Because it makes us think you'll move up to number one. Right. The only team in the NFL, NFL that is going to win the draft more than Oakland is Arizona, because Arizona's got the number one pick. So Arizona, the draft's going to be three and a half hours long. The first half hour, Arizona is going to own it.

Everybody's going to talk about Arizona. Oh, my God, Arizona. Raiders, they want the whole three and a half hours. Because after the Arizona pick, about an hour later, the Raiders have three picks. It's going to be a raider draft. We're going to be talking a lot about the Raiders. So it feels like, to me, the Raiders are, they're making this a very glass house. look inside.

This is selling tickets. The other thing yesterday that happened late in our show, and I thought it was a massive deal, the Seattle Seahawks made a trade. They sent a very, very good football player, Frank Clark, to the Kansas City Chiefs who have to win now and are in win now mode. And Seattle got a first round pick and a second round pick.

You have no idea how big that is. Green Bay knew two years ago they were going to have to pay Aaron Rogers. They knew it. So Green Bay got to. really smart. Last year and the year before, they drafted defense. They had to get their defense young and cheap so they could pay Aaron Rogers. So in 2017, four of their first five picks were defense, Packers. And last year, their first three picks were defense. So seven of the last eight picks at the top of the draft of the Packers have been defense. Why? Because they knew they had

to pay Aaron Rogers. And so when you know you're going to pay Aaron Rogers a ton, they're like, fellas, we got to get young and cheap. So Green Bay smartly, the last two years, has gone all defense at the top of the draft. And I think Green Bay is going to be very good. I think it's going to be the best Green Bay defense since the year they won the Super Bowl. Seattle didn't have that luxury. Seattle thought they had a year to figure out the Russell Wilson contract thing. And then Russell Wilson said, hey, me and Sierra have been talking.

Pay me now or I'm leaving. And Seattle went, hey, okay, here's your money. and Seattle was cornered, and they don't have any picks. The Patriots and the Giants have 12 picks. Seattle this year had four. So this was not a small deal. Seattle now has two first rounders. They don't have a second rounder.

Then they have one pick in the third, fourth, fifth. They don't have a sixth in the seventh. So Seattle went into this draft, like, deprived of picks. So to have two first rounders in the best defensive draft in a decade is a big deal for Seattle. And then they got a second rounder for next year. So now next year they got a first and two seconds and also get a compensatory pick because they lost Earl Thomas next year. This is a big deal. Seattle acknowledged yesterday, Pete Carroll said the pursuit, or excuse me, John Schneider, the GM said, he said, listen, undrafted free agents are going to be a huge focus for us.

What? What? Because they know when Russell put a deadline, uh-oh, we got to pay. pay them now. So you've got to get draft picks. Green Bay, two years smartly planned for it. Seattle's now bailing water on some of this stuff. So I didn't think yesterday

everybody's talking about Frank Clark, and he'll be a very good player for Kansas City. They lost both pass rushers. I think he's better than D. Ford. He's healthier. He'll be a good player. But for Seattle, they are behind the eight ball on these draft picks. They only had four

picks this year. Patriots have 12. Giants have 12. Most teams have seven. They got four. So now they got five. And the key is they have two. I mean, if you have two first rounders, those are two starters. So you're going to get in their bottom of the first round, too.

They're like 21, 28, 29. Those are great first round picks for Seattle because they're not hyper expensive first round picks. So good stuff today. Draft tomorrow, as you know. And coming up, Jeff Schwartz, former offensive linemen, Giants, Chiefs, Panthers. Vikings will be joining us. And as Cantor, Jim Jackson, Rick Bueker. and Nick Wright just had to acknowledge, it was painful for him,

and I've been right on the Russell Westbrook thing. Yeah, I mean, for years and stuff. Listen, sometimes, you know, I say, this is going to happen, and it doesn't happen tomorrow, and it happens over time. I remember when Kobe and Shaq split up, and I said, Lakers made the right move keeping Kobe over Shaq. I had to eat a dirt sandwich for a year because Shaq went to Miami and won. But I knew that Shaq didn't like to practice.

Shaq was falling apart physically. Shack was harder to build around. Shack was distracted by Hollywood stuff. Kobe was the right choice. But for a year or two, I just took a beating. And then Powell Gassal shows up, all right, yeah, Kong guy was right. I'm feeling pretty good today.

But no reason to be a bully, no reason to bring out the hammer. Hour two next. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHard Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across.

When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? the largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small.

The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness. professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain.

It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ledecki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light. up and smile. That means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can, like, I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about

showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Here we go, live in LA, hour two. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we are again live in beautiful Los Angeles on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, Rick Buker in 15 minutes. Joy Taylor is joining me on a very fast and frenetic first hour of the show.

Draft is tomorrow. Wife even acknowledged to me. She's going out tomorrow. I just want to let you be, huh? She's me. Me and an iPad and like four TVs. Unbelievable. So happy.

I mean, honey, I love you. But I got a chance to see the Jets, you know, pick an interior alignment. I'm not using coasters tomorrow. I'm putting coronas on the table. Corona's. We're going to have more than one beer. Oh, yeah. Tomorrow, the idea of watching interior linemen drafted is fascinating to me.

It's a meat and potatoes draft. It is a meat and potatoes draft after the first picket of course, which will probably be a quarterback. What's the hardest thing in the world to do? lift big weight, run real fast. I contend the hardest thing in the world to do is to get successful people to change. They just don't money makes us think we're smarter than we are. Success is a body armor. It is really hard to get smart people to change, smart, successful people.

And I put successful more than smart. Some people that are successful aren't that smart. if they're just successful for whatever reasons. Bobby Knight, really successful. Bobby, one and done, games changing. Just wouldn't change. Bobby Knight, the coach, is Russell Westbrook, the player. Russell Westbrook's already successful.

If you'd have told any parent that your son at 12 years old is going to be an NBA superstar of $100 million shoe deal, make $300 million playing basketball and win the MVP, would that be a successful child? Yes, Russell's really successful. but he's not going to change. You cannot change his game. That would be changing his personality.

If you told Russell, be more passive, that would be total weakness. That's not who he is. So Charles Barkley suggested what I think is the only way to fix this OKC problem. And again, they're a playoff team. It's not the end of the world. They win a bunch of games. They sell out their arena. There are bigger problems in the NBA, basically 20 teams below them.

but here's what Charles Barkley suggested OKC do. I think it's time to move Russ to the two because I think he's too aggressive offensively. You play Schrooter and Westbrook together all the time? Yes, because I think he's so good and aggressive. He's always driving at 100 miles an hour. He should drive at 55, sometime raise the 7. You don't drive your car at 100 all the time.

This is what you do. Schroeder's the one, Russell's the two. You cannot change Westbrook's game because asking to change his game would be changing his personality. But you can change his position.

You can change his position. He's a little stubborn as a dude. His game's a little stubborn. Okay. So let's change the position. It's futile. There was a moment this year they were having a media scrum. It was in March.

It was after kind of a bad loss. And somebody suggested during the media scrum the next day at Shootaround about changing. And Westbrook snapped. I'm reading it here. Change what? Have I changed in 11 years? Westbrook interrupted? No.

You're not going to change his game. And I just don't think, by the way, what Barclay said is what I said about John Wall when he broke into this league. I said this 10 years ago about John Wall. I said he's going to be going 100 miles an hour. And it's a 70 mile an hour league. Is that Westbrook and John Wall and Iverson to a large degree were playing by themselves. You can still get eight assists and play by yourself when you have the ball in your hands. But I think what you have to do is you have to move Russ to the two.

Schroeder's at the one. He's a solid player. Paul's your three. Adams is your big. And then you've got to go out and draft another shooter or two. Do whatever you can to fix that issue. But I think Barclay's right here. And I think Russell, the player, reminds me of Bobby Knight, the coach.

Once you get successful and have stacks of money, And you've got rings and awards, MVP and coach of the year and titles, getting successful people to change about the only way you can do it is if you walk up to them and say, listen, if you don't stop smoking, you're going to die. Well, I'm going to die. Okay, I'll change. I heard a doctor say that once. He said, it's much easier to get some people to change.

They don't have options. He said, once people are successful and have options to convince them in a doctor's office to change their lifestyle, they don't want to do it. Hey, look at me. I'm successful. He goes, the one way to change is, you're going to die if you don't change. Okay, I'll change. I'll stop smoking.

I'll stop eating, you know, pork chops for breakfast or whatever you eat. And I think with Ross, you just change his position. You still say, play your butt off, be a human tornado, be relentless, be athletic. Don't screw with this game. It is what it is. We're just not going to give you 31 shots. You're going to get 19 because Schroeder's going to make different decisions on who the pass the ball to. Well, this is the difference between being great and being the greatest, right?

You have to evolve. It's hard to get to the top. It's harder to stay at the top. That's why athletes like Tom Brady or LeBron are so fascinating because they've been able to be great for such a consistent amount of time. And evolve. And evolve because the game is not going to stay the same, no matter what sport or what company or what business you're in.

Everything changes. You have to stay with it and find the way to be great with that change. Yeah. Chris Carter talked about that on first things first this morning. What he would do if he ran the Oklahoma City Thunder. The change that need to be made is the franchise needs to revolve around Paul George. I need to somehow get him healthier for the playoffs. Let's not forget, George didn't play well in the playoffs, but, justifiably he did have a bad shoulder injury.

He was spectacular, the first two-thirds of the season. So for me, if I'm the franchise, all right, Paul George is going to be the guy. And when I start getting in games like this, I'm going to lean on him more because it's easier to when your leader is a two-way player, compared to being the way Russ and the way Russ plays the game. And I think I talked about this to start the show an hour ago.

Parents do this all the time. They sit down and have the big talk with their teenagers and it's uncomfortable. But parents always have the built-in authority. They're parents. I think you sit down and you try to, there's an old saying in coaching

as you're kicking a guy in the butt, you're patting him on the back. And you're going to kick Russ in the butt and pat him on the back. You're going to say, Russell? we love what you bring to the table. We love your athleticism. We love your intensity.

We're going to move you to the two, and it's going to be the same game. Because if you ask him the changes game and his position, you lost him. You just ask him, want to move you over to the two? There'll still be times you'll have the ball, but we want to be more distribution-based at the point. And Schroeder's our guy. And so you have the big talk with him and how it lands, it lands. enabled him for a long time. I don't have a lot of pity for OKC. If I could see this coming three years ago and I don't

work in a front office, OKC should have seen this coming five years ago. I shouldn't be able to get it right before a team. Okay, I've been on this for like three and a half years now. This is not, you can't win with this. I can bring out the hammer today on Westbrook. There's no point in that. I won the debate. The key is now where do you go from here? And I think Barclay's right. Just move him over. Schroeder in. too. And I also think I want to show it again, you know, we talk a lot about Westbrook because

because they've really been the team that got us into this series. I mean, if this was, we didn't, nobody watched last year when Portland lost to the Pelicans because you didn't have the marquee got to get you into the theater. And that is definitely Westbrook. But Damian Lillard, for a five-game series that was lobsided, was just a fascinating player. And I think he now moves into the top four point guards in the NBA. And it's taking him a while. What I like about this is that Damian Lillard is a great example for all you college kids. Okay, for all you college guys, I think you're going to walk into the NBA and take it over. Dame walked into this league.

He's been swept in series. He hasn't made the playoffs. He's had injuries. He's had to share the ball sometimes with CJ McCullough. It has been a long road for Dame to this moment. This has not been easy. This has not been linear. Michael Jordan, a lot of you forget.

watch him if you're 20 or 30 years old. Michael Jordan got the you-know-what kicked out of him for six years in the east. He got his butt kicked. He got tossed like a crouton and a salad bowl all over the floor. And then Michael got that

body armor. So by the time Michael was the man and Larry Bird was done and the Pistons were done, Michael was just a rock emotionally, physically. And Dame's a rock. Because Dame's seen the bottom. Dane's missed the problem. Dane's missed

the playoffs. Dame's been hurt. Dane went to Weber State. Dame's been swept. It just shows you how hard the NBA is. This idea, I'm a star. Give me the shots. That was Magic Johnson's life. He walked into the league and had Kareem. It doesn't work that way. That's not the way the league works. That is once in a lifetime. Michael Jordan got crapped on and Barclay did and Stockton dead and Isaiah dead and everybody did except Magic, who just happened to inherit. I don't know, the best center of all time. Let's go to the show. shot that changed the world, at least for Dame. Eight on the shot clock.

End game clock. Westbrook. Into the lane. On Aminu, forced up a shot. It rolls off. Rebound and Chief. In a tie ball game, Damien will bring it up the floor with 14. You want the last shot. Damien clears mid-court. He's got 11. Tied at 1.15. Crown rising to the feet.

George will defend Lillard. Spread floor. Lillard with 47 a night. Working it down to 2 to 1. A deep 3! Blazers win! That's just a great scene. Right next to the fans at the Rose Garden. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Steph, Hardin, Kyrie, and Lillard. The Killers. Coming up next, Rick Buecker, plus the Pittsburgh Steelers have made a move, and I think it's a smart one. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the trials, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapy. Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across.

When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small.

The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WMBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain.

It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't. Don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard.

Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Sunday, NASCAR returns to the legendary Talladega Super Speedway for the wildest race of the year. Bush, Hamlin, and Lugano battle for the top of the standings and try to avoid the big one. The Geico 500, Sunday at 2 p.m. Eastern on Fox.

Told it to this week. I went 68 miles an hour on Sepulveda. I just looked at coughs, and I just looked at coughs, cops. I drove by and was like, what are you going to do? I was like Dame. Bye-bye. 68 miles an hour. Nothing you can do. We got a lot to get to. Rick Buker, senior writer, Bleacher Report, now a member of our FS1 staff, love to have him. Okay, let's start with this. A lot of people are saying this morning, oh, you guys, what took so long for Damian Lillard, but I think in life, just like for movie stars, we can be a good actor for years, and all of a sudden, Ray Leota is in Goodfellas, and you're like, oh, okay, Ray Leota.

Everybody knew he was good for years. I thought last night, Damian Lillard's career needed a moment. Yes. And that was the moment, right? Like, he's better than Russ Westbrook, right? You're not, you not only need a moment, you need an opponent. And Russ Westbrook and the stature that he comes in with, Paul George, the Oklahoma City Thunder in general,

gave Damien Lillard the opportunity to prove that he is the better basketball player. That's what we go away with. Nobody was saying that going into this series, but they're saying it now. Damian Lillard is the better basketball player. I would still say that

Russ Westbrook is the better athlete. Yes. But we have found and has been proven that being the better athlete in the playoffs, where it's not about athleticism, it becomes that it, it, it's a great equalizer in the playoffs. Playoffs become about execution and intelligence in how you play the game. And Damien Liller demonstrated that he has that over Russ. Okay, so Chris Carter was talking about this on first things first this morning, about the changes that need to be made. Do we have that by, I want to play this Chris Carver.

of this morning. The change that need to be made is the franchise needs to revolve around Paul George. I need to somehow get him healthier for the playoffs. Let's not forget, George didn't play well in the playoffs, but, justifiably, he did have a bad shoulder injury. He was spectacular, the first two-thirds of the season. So for me, if I'm the franchise, all right, Paul George is going to be the guy. And when I start getting in games like this, I'm going to lean on him more

because it's easier to when your leader is a two-way player. compared to being the way Russ and the way Russ plays the game. Now, what do you make of that? There's a distinction here between being the leader and being the best player on the team. Russ ceded to Paul George at the beginning of this year. He did. That Paul George was the better player. That's why Paul George was the MVP candidate this year.

But you also have to have the personality and the desire to be the leader. Paul George doesn't want to carry that any more than Carmelo Anthony wanted to carry that. Russ very much wants that. And the fact that he's made room for Dennis Schrooter, he's made room for Paul George, even the idea that he needs to move off of the position. He's moved out of the traditional point guard position already. That's what I liked about what he did this year.

He learned that from last year and how they got beat by Utah in that, you know what, I need to allow the pieces around me to take part and I need to take advantage of what they can do. He did that this year, far more. So what he needs to learn from this series and the same way that you learn from that one is that now I need to blend my game

the combination of what I do. I still need to be aggressive but looking to get the ball to other people. I need to attack when I can and I need to bank my emotions. I was okay with the way he played in last night's game. Yeah, I was okay with it. It was what Westbrook does.

There's other games that have bothered me far worse. I don't like at the end him going to the basket. George was hot. Yeah, but here's the thing. Look, Russ got to the basket. He had one-on-one on the outside. He got there clean. Nobody came.

Everybody stayed home, so he got to the basket clean. The problem is, is he hasn't been doing that all year, playing that way, making those kind of decisions all year. It's really tough when you get to an elimination game, and now you're going to attempt to do something under that pressure that you haven't worked on. all year. And by the way, Damien Lillard, there was a time where Damian Lillard, not the emotional basket case that Russ can be, but there was a time where Damian Lillard was upset about the fact

that he didn't get his just desserts, that he was never recognized. And he played like it. He played with that chip on his shoulder. And then at one point he and I had a conversation, because I noticed that something had changed, the demeanor had changed. And he basically said, I've come to accept that maybe that's just, that's my story, is that I, I'm not going to be recognized. I'm demanding that everybody recognize me. I'm going to prove to you just how good I am. Won't you give that to me?

And then finally he went, you know what, screw it? Let me just go win. I'm just going to go play. I'm not going to worry about the accolades or whether I'm fully recognized. And what you saw last night, and you saw in this series, oh, they're mocking me.

Now, the old Damien Lillard, he would have been coming back on that. Damien Lillard just said, we're going to win four games. I want to move on to the next series. Charles Barkley said this about the Thunder going forward. Let's play this bite. I think it's time to move Russ to the two.

Because I think he's too aggressive offensively. You play Schrooter and Westbrook together all the time? Yes. Because I think he's so good and aggressive. He's always driving at 100 miles an hour. He should drive at 55, sometime race to 7. You don't drive your car at 100 all the time. What about that?

idea. I don't think it's a terrible idea. It's not. It was, first of all, he allowed that to happen to a certain degree this year already. Why can't he learn to drive 55-60 when need be? Because I think your personality is

your game. Kobe, I think to ask a guy to change his game is asking a 30-year-old with a pile of money to change his personality, and they don't. If Russ, if Russ had not changed this year, I would agree with you. because I've been waiting for this.

But he did. He changed for a little while. Well, as long as Paul George, so this is the thing, and this goes back to KD. As long as everybody else is getting it done in a better way, Russ is like, okay, I'll roll with this. The second you show a hesitation or you can't get it done, Russ is like, oh, okay, I'll drive, I'll drive. If Paul George stays healthy, then I don't think anything changes.

But when Paul George gets hurt, Russ looks around and says, I got to take over again. I can't fault him for taking that approach. And I'm not giving up on Russ Westbrook for the same reason that I saw the change in Damien Lillard. I saw the change in LeBron James when he went to Miami and he lost that first year. And I saw what Russ did this year. I'm not, yes, he's 30. Yes, you would have hoped that he would have gotten it by now. But I don't see a guy who's so obstinate that says, my way is working. I kind of see that. Right? Now, I'm. And I'm not saying he can get there. But I'm not ready to close the door on Russ Westbrook figuring it out.

Okay. Let's move to two things. You've got an email from Magic Johnson's story. So Magic steps down. And when he left, he said something about there's a lot of talking behind people's back. And we read that to believe Polinka was taking shots at Magic. There were a couple stories that surfaced that Polinko would walk into the main room and go, Hey, everybody, where's magic?

accentuating the truth, which was magic was gone doing something that celebrities do. So what is your story on this? My understanding is that there were some emails that were exchanged between Rob and Jeannie. Jeannie Bus and Rob Polinka. Yes. About magic and about what magic was and wasn't doing. They were critical emails. And somehow, some way, Jeannie, from what I understand, was ceasing or blind ceasing magic on everything.

That was sort of protocol, standard issue. you. Somehow the exchange between Rob and Jeannie ended up on that string of the blind CCs that were going to Magic. So Magic now is seeing emails from Rob to Jeannie that were critical of what he was doing. And maybe most important in all this is that there was no indication that Jeannie was backing Rob up in terms of either going to magic and letting him know that this was going on or going back at Rob. and defending magic, that was not happening. And so when he talked about the backstabbing, to me, my understanding is that's what started it. And the fact that Jeannie waved goodbye and said, you know, thank you for all that you did, was that she didn't necessarily disagree with what Rob was saying.

Oh, Lord. Let me shift to this. So I'm watching the Sixers series. If I'm the Lakers this morning, I'm rooting against the Sixers. I want the Raptors to crush Philips. Philadelphia and leave a bad taste in Jimmy Butler's mouth because they're not getting rid of Embed and I doubt they get rid of Ben Simmons. And they'll keep Tobias Harris because he's cheaper than Jimmy Butler probably.

And so if the Sixers get whacked by Toronto, I don't think they will. I think it's a very, very good series. I think it's a six, seven game series. But if they lose in five or they lose, they'll probably fire their coach. And Jimmy Butler potentially says, I'm done. And he moves over to the Lakers because we know he loves Los Angeles. We know the Lakers aren't getting KD, Clay, Kyrie, Kawhi, blah, blah, blah. They're not getting those guys.

Is that, if I'm the Lakers, I kind of think it's a Hail Mary, but Jimmy Butler's, if I was the Lakers, I would be all in on going to those games, making myself present. I think Butler's the guy they get. You do know what happened with Jimmy Butler and a bunch of young guys in Chicago. It was horrible. And Minnesota. Not great.

And Philadelphia. Issued. I don't want to bring him to L.A. and put him with another group of young guys. But you trade all those guys to get Anthony Davis. Okay, but okay, well, that's a whole other ball of wax, and I don't know that that happens. Yeah, I mean, because you're saying that Jimmy Butler is,

you're not saying you're, I'm saying he's the life preserver to save this LeBron Laker thing. He's the life preserver or the whole thing drowns. And I'm saying that if he's your life preserver, we're lost at C. That's just not, I don't see that as the solution. Now, I will say that regardless of what happens with Philadelphia, from what I've heard, Jimmy wants to move on.

This is not a referendum on the success or failure of the Philadelphia 76ers. He's looking to go elsewhere. But that said, I know that he and KD have talked. And if it's a matter of going to New York, He's made it very clear. He wants to go to a major market. It's not just L.A. It's L.A. or New York.

If he has those two options, and I look, and I'm on the Knicks, I have the same concern about Jimmy Butler. But the difference is that in New York, you can shape the team around Jimmy Butler and Kevin Durant. Here, I don't know that you're going to be able to move these young guys and get something in return. So it's LeBron, young guys, and Butler.

Listen, there's a big issue here that didn't get reported much. Brandon Ingram has a blood issue. Yes. I don't believe he's on the market. I don't believe anybody he's going to trade for him. So now you're down to Kyle Kuzma, who got exposed late and Lonzo that can't stay healthy. No, the value of these Lakers players are not going to get you anything on the open market. That's for certain.

Okay. So then it, all right, I did like my life preserve. There are no easy answers for the Lakers. For Laker Nation, I wish there was. This is not a simple. Everybody thinks they're like one step away. Magic said it on the way out. We're just one player away.

No, yeah. Thanks a lot, Magic. Of all the things that Magic did, that might have been the worst thing that he could have done, is to suggest they're that close because they're not. Good seeing you, Rick. Rick Bueker, part of the FS1 team. Joy with the News.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Genuinely disappointed there, Colin. Well, I mean, I live in a city. I'd like, you know, I don't want to see LeBron's last four years, just hobbling around. I'm with you.

I like to see, it's like Tom Brady. I like the way Drew Breeze's career is ending, and wins and playoffs. And I don't like to see Brett Far with the Jets. I like to see Brett Far with the Vikings. That's how I like to see stars and their careers. Kobe gets 60.

You're like, that's the way Jeter home run, last New York. Who wants to see the old star hobble away? I'm 100% with you. There's a lot that could happen in the playoffs. It could change all that goes. It's going to be a little patient. So in a completely unsurprising move,

the Cowboys exercise Ezekio Elliott's fifth year option on Wednesday, which keeps him under contract through 2020. The reigning NFL rushing champion will earn $9 million, a little over $9 million in 2020, unless he agrees to an extension with the Cowboys by then. Right now, he is the 10th highest paid running back for average salary per year with $6.2 million. Todd Gurley is making $14.4 million. But as we know, there's a lot of extra factors in the Ezekiel Elliott's. situation. Obviously, they're working out Dax's contract and they want to figure all of that out

and see how they're going to pay him. But Ezekiel Elliott has had some off-the-field issues that have kept him away. So they're probably playing a little bit safe there. Now he hasn't had in trouble with his recent, but. They have gotten Dallas, you talk about, they have gotten incredible value out of Dac and Zique in the history of the NFL. Well, that's why I think it's ridiculous, this idea that Dak Prescott owes the Cowboys any kind of There are DJs in Dallas that make

more than Dak. He's the quarterback, got him into the playoffs two of the last three years. In my lifetime, Russell Wilson's the only other player that you're like, the organization's getting a thousand times the value of his contract. Of course. And look, I mean, you can argue that, oh, like he doesn't want to try

and win and he needs to give the team some flexibility. I mean, if I'm Dak and his agent, I'm like, well, you just had how many years of me making basically nothing in perspective, and you had plenty of flexibility and you weren't able to put the pieces around me to get to a Super Bowl. So what's me taking a discount going to do? Save the franchise. Tony Romo got heard of his man overboard.

He saved the franchise. He's going to get paid. I mean, Zieg's going to get paid, too, in a few years. So, just the book of Russell Wilson, he became the highest paid NFL player this month when he signed a four-year, $140 million deal with the Seahawks. So he's giving back to the teammates that kept him safe on the field some of the time. He gifted each member of his offensive line $12,000 in Amazon stock. Love it.

And he wrote them a letter thanking them for protecting him every day. He said, you sacrifice your physical and mental well-being to protect me, which in turn allows me to provide and care for my family. This does not go unnoticed, and it has never forgotten you have invested in my life. This is my investment in yours. It's awesome, because by the way, you keep that stock for 12 years, and if it grows like it has for the last 12 years, that's going to be worth $300,000 to each player.

If you want to take it out or you give it to your kids. I mean, it sounds kind of nerd alert, but I mean, if you want to give me some stock, I'm cool. If you could give me a watch. It's a really thoughtful. Yes. It's very Russell Wilson to give his offensive linemen stock as a gift. Some of the other gifts that have been given out, or at least we're given out in 2018, Polaris Rangers, Jared Gough and Todd Gurley gave those to their offensive line.

Carson Wentz gave yes. Yeti coolers. I'll take the stock over a Yeti cooler. Those are very, very good coolers. Custom jeans from Eli Manning. A big green egg barbecue. My brother has one of those. Jason has one of those. He used it all time. It's actually very good. Joe Flacco gave slushy machines and Josh Allen gave out iPads. I feel like they probably all. I'll take the Amazon stock. Thank you. Yeah, not close. Nothing against the other guys. They make money too. So it's not like, you know, you're not trying to outdo each other with the like I make more money. thing, but that is a big contract, and it's a cool gift to give.

Finally, the 2019 NFL draft starts tomorrow. It's like a second Super Bowl for you. Oh, it's as much fun as I can have. You're going to eat some chili? What's your snack? You know what? I'm going to do DoorDash, me and my son. I'm going to sit there and just have somebody bring me food from some.

Do you like wings or hummus? Oh, yeah, I love wings. Wings, you listen, burgers, wings. What's your wing flavor? Plain and I can dip it in a hot sauce. Oh, you're a dipper? I'm a dipper. Yeah.

Yeah. I go lemon pepper. Anyway, most believe it's a foregone conclusion that Arizona will take Kyle Murray, as we've much discussed, and Cliff Kingsbury says final decision has not been made. Yeah. We're still working through it. It's a process, but I wouldn't say the hay is in the barn. Oh, please.

He's smiling when he says that. I mean, he can't say anything. They've got to ask him, but he can't say anything. Look at him. Play the bite again. He's like, we haven't made a decision yet. Actually, we're going to play it again? Play it again.

Let me, he's just, he knows the answer. We're still working through it. It's a process. I wouldn't say the hay is in the barn. You know what? He does have a natural turn down of the, of the smile. So I would agree with you that he is smirking. He can't win there.

Actually, they better have had made a decision. They knew that unless somebody comes to them, you know, night of like the Raiders, trying to move up. I mean, this is, they should have a pretty good idea of what they're doing. I just, whatever they do, just, I mean, for, our sake, I guess it would be great conversation. But don't keep both board racks. Just please don't do that.

They're just different styles. It makes no sense. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Annas Canter. Portland Trailblazers is going to join us next. I'm so excited. He's a funny dude.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories,

their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth.

Are you a good person because you're afraid Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose

on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness. professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going.

From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it.

An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ledecki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything.

I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart women's sports. Welcome back. Good to have you in. Ennis Canter has been in the NBA for eight years,

most famously with the Thunder and the Knicks. But at the trading deadline, Portland decided to roll the dice and bring in Ennis Canter. He has been incredibly valuable. He was huge in this series, had to go up against Stephen Adams. And via the Coward Global Satellite Network, Ennis Canter, one of the good dudes in the NBA. Okay, so you've played with Ross, and you've played with, you've played with Dame. You played with both of them. How are they to play with. Let's start with that. Man, well, I'll say Russ first. Playing with Russ, it's so, well, it could be so tough sometimes because when you are,

like I think I said before in your show, when you are in his, when you are his teammate, you cannot talk to nobody, you cannot look at nobody, or, you know, just focus on your game, you can talk to whoever after. But I think playing with Dame is so much different because, because, I mean, he always keep his coolness, always keep his calmness. And, I mean, they're both amazing players, really, really good leaders. But, man, Dame is just another level, man. I cannot see enough about that guy. What did you make of the shot?

Were you surprised he took that shot last night? Well, actually, he was working on that shot in the morning in a shoot-around practice. And then he took those shots. I was like, what is he doing? You know, because I never see anybody takes those shots before. And he was working on it this morning. And then when he shot that shit,

ball, I'm like, oh, my God, this is crazy. And then when he made it, I'm like, it's unbelievable. You know, he made the same shot five years ago against Houston. And I was in Turkey watching that game with my dad. I'm like, this is something so special. And now here, five years later, I'm his teammate and witnessed that shot.

It's just, it's unbelievable, man. When the shot went in, what was it like being in that arena? Is that the greatest moment of your basketball life in America, the excitement, the arena? What was it like? I will say I've been playing in the NBA basketball. It's my eighth year. And I never see. It's probably one of the greatest play I have ever seen.

The crowd was going crazy, plays was going crazy. And the best part is, Dave is turn around and just vae it and buy it and buy it. bye-bye. Because there was so much trash talking through this in serious. Just because he turned around, waved him, bye-bye. It just, I was like, wow, this is so cool, man. By the way, last night you were grabbing your thigh. You had a shoulder injury. You were grimacing. Enis, it looked like you were in pain for much of that night. What was it? I mean, it just looked like you were in pain, were you? Well, I was in, well, I mean, going against Stephen Adams is not easy, man. He's probably one of the strongest,

maybe the strongest guy in the whole lead. But, you know, I separated my shoulder first quarter, and then I just didn't want to quit. And then I went in the locker room and a half time. They give me an injection. And I was like, they asked me if I can play. I said, you know what? Yes, let's go out there and just finish this job.

So I just went out there, literally play with one arm. And I try to do the best I can to just. stay in the game, man. Well, you were there big last night of note. You know, just to ask you, Portland obviously moves on. It's a great win. It's an incredible feeling. Do you worry that last night was so emotional and so crazy,

will Portland be able to duplicate that going forward? Or, you know, because I worry about that. When a team plays its greatest game, they can come out flat the next series. Are you worried about that? Yes. I feel like this team have enough talent to beat every team on every court. All we got to do is just play hard, play smart, stay together and have fun. And I say this even the playoff stars.

I feel like this team, we have enough talent to win a championship. But we just have to pay attention to little details and just go out and have fun, man. Because when you have Dame and CJ in your team, those are the guys that's make themselves better and make everybody else better around them. And that's what makes you really special. So that's why I'm really excited about the second round and third round. And maybe I hope the finals, man, it's going to be a very interesting basketball. So this series had a lot of trash talk.

A lot. A lot. I mean, it was yap, yep, yep, yep. Now, on the court, too. You don't know about that a lot of the trash show because it was on the court. And I was hearing it. It was unbelievable. So now, are you?

you a trash talker if you and I were playing and you were going to trash talk me like what what's your trash talk see when I was with okay C just because of Russell was trash troper with almost the whole league I was a trash talk now I see that now I saw I saw dame so I saw dame so I was like about the trash talk dame came up to me and say hey man stay cool and stay calm don't worry about none of these let's just win and this is our job so I was like okay So I did not say a word to Stephen Adams, Russell Westbrook, or Paul George. The whole series, I was like, you know what? This is what leaders want us to do.

So just go out there, keep your calm, be cool, and just win it, and just turn around and say bye-bye. Yeah, that is awesome. So were you a good trash talker? I was actually, you know, I actually was my, when I was with OKC, but after I sound important, man, I did not say a word. Yeah. Finally, I think Damian Lillard now is one of the four great point guards in the league. I think it's Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, James Hardin, and Damian Lillard. To me, those are the killers. Those are the four best point guards in the league. Do you agree or disagree?

I do agree. I will put, I mean, I don't like, I don't know. I know you don't like Russell, but I will put definitely Russell in the top five. But Dave is definitely out there. It's not that I don't like Russell. It's his game that drives me crazy. Didn't it? It drove you crazy once in a while, didn't it? It does, yes.

I'll be honest. Yes, it does, too. I mean, that's how we get himself going. He has to fire it up. He has to yell, try to get out of the people's skin. He has to rock the baby. But that's just how it's personality. But, well, I mean, that's what gets him going.

Yeah. Hey, Ennis Canter, congratulations to you in the city of Portland. We love having you on the show. and continued success going forward, man. You guys are a blast to watch. My favorite show, my man. Thank you so much. Always nice talking to you.

All right, N.S. Canter and the Portland Trailblazers. Good dude. I would have loved to hear him trash talk. He'd be a funny, it'd be like a stand-up comic trash-talking. You know what I love about that interview? N.S. said, I was going to trash talk. And then our leader, Dame said, let's just stay calm. There's no reason for trash talk.

He goes, so I decided, okay, well, Dame's our leader, and he said, no trash talk. So I'm not going to trash talk. Like, I love guys. who are, they're okay with a pecking order, like follow our leader. You know, I say it in the NBA, you only got 13 guys in a roster and about seven play, and there's one or two great players. And if the one or two great players do something, if they're hardworking, it changes every attitude.

If they're trash talkers, it changes every attitude. The leader in your locker room in the NBA, because in football, offense to the left, even at halftime, offense goes into one room, defense goes into another. In baseball, the pitchers are down to the bullpen. But in basketball, if you're, you're not going to, you're not. ball, if your best player has an identity, the team takes on the identity of the player. And OKC is a little chirpy. And with Portland, they're not.

And so you had these two different styles of guards playing against each other. And I think Russ sucked Damien into a little of the trash talking because that's what Russ does. Yeah. And it's a star-driven league. So generally, the state in the attitude of the star and the personality of the star is going to determine the culture. Like you said in the NFL, that's why the coaching is so important because really the coaching determines the culture.

Really the only example of that in the NBA that's different is the spurs because they are the identity. Popovich is really the identity. You have to be a spur as opposed to being a star playing for the spurs. But overall, that's how it goes. So listen to this. Damia Liller just went to his Instagram and he posted this from Sun Su, the Art of War. He posted this on his Instagram, quote, it is the unemotional, reserved, calm, detached warrior who wins. Not the hothead seeking vengeance and not the ambitious seeker of war.

fortune. I wonder where that and who that is directed at. That is very, very intriguing. That is from Sun Tzu, the art, that small book, The Art of War. That is often quoted from leaders and business leaders and all that stuff. So we got ourselves a heck of an NBA series, Boston, Milwaukee. Is that start this weekend? Oh, Lord, that's going to be a good one. That's going to be a really good series. Mother's Day, show Mom, always been there for you, how much you appreciate her. Go to 1-800flowers.com, 36 sorbet, roses, 36 bucks, a buck of rose. I can even do that math. 1-800flowers.com, click the radio icon, enter the code her. John, did you say there's going to be that series starting this weekend, does it? They haven't announced it yet, but it could.

That's going to be so good. The latest on Big Ben, Jeff Schwartz, former NFL offensive lineman, Jim Jackson, were loaded. Best for last as well. Fantastic first two hours. Ennis Canner, thanks so much for stopping by. Nick Wright, Rick Buecker. It's The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app.

Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Ah, here we go. L.A., we're live. Hour 3, this is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeartRaddy, we're on Fox Sports Radio, we're on FS1. That's the station you're watching right now.

It is great to have you, We're also on Sirius XM Channel 83. I'm told, but I can't listen because I'm on. That's Joy Taylor. Joey, we've got some NFL news here draft tomorrow. You want to hear this? I do. All right.

So Mike Garifolo, he used to work with us. Now he's at the NFL Network. Good dude, knows this stuff, is reporting an Ian Rappaport. Put that on the screen or we can't put it on the screen, that the Washington Redskins, who need a quarterback. They had Alex Smith. He got hurt. They got Colt McCoy.

So Andrew, so is Garofalo the one breaking this story? I want to give credit to the right guy. Garapolo is. Because I got Andrew Siciliano and Ian Rappaport. Which guy's breaking it? All right. Okay, Garifolo's breaking it. He reporting the Redskins have explored moving into the top five.

Well, who would that be in front of? Oh, the New York Giants at number six who won a quarterback? This tells you right now the Redskins want to draft. Dwayne Haskins, the Ohio State quarterback. That's all this tells you. That's exactly what it tells you. By the way, it's what they should do. I don't care if you have needs.

If you have a needed quarterback, you're a bad franchise. You're not just a bad football team. You're a bad franchise. You can be a bad football team. If you got the right quarterback, when the Rams had Jeff Fisher, they weren't a bad franchise. They had Jared Gough. They just need the right coach.

You got the right coach, get a left tackle, you're good. So this tells you, and I like Dwayne Haskins. I don't, I think we're, you know, it happens every year. We just, We do this with 18-year-olds. Okay? I think I read this one time. I don't even think your brains fully developed until like 24.

Can we stop beating these guys up? It's like the NBA draft. Oh, the kid doesn't do that. He doesn't do that. Yeah, he's 18. You know what I was doing at 18 running around the school, pulling up fire extinguisher alarms? They're 18.

They're playing in front of 80,000 people. They're not perfect. That was a goofball. Have a little faith in your ability to develop a player. Yes. Like this is kids tall, strong. Every time you listen to him, says the right thing, coachable. He doesn't have great feet.

Brady Manning, Eli, who's got great feet? Plan the NBA if you need to have great feet, all right? Your wrong sport. You want to steal bases in baseball. My quarterback, he's big, he's strong, he's accurate. I don't get the, I don't think, I think we're overthinking, Dwayne Haskins. Is he ready to play right now? No, probably not.

Needs another 12 months of watching Eli Manning or watching a veteran do it. But so that's the story of Dwayne Haskins, who, again, I don't think he's an A prospect. I thought Andrew Luck was an A prospect. Carson Wentz was an A prospect. Sam Darnel, I think he's an A prospect. I think he's a BB plus prospect. I think he is a bigger, sturdier version, perhaps, of a Matt Ryan. Well, Matt Ryan got to a Super Bowl.

So that's the story right now. Mike Garifolo reporting Redskins have explored moving into the top five. I think it'd be great. Good for him. Coming up in 15 minutes, Jim Jackson stops by. Well, well, well. Blazers move it on. That was wild last night.

As good series as you're going to get for a five-game series. Last night told us a lot about Russell Westbrook and a lot about Damian Lillard. So let's listen once again to the final sequence. Eight on the shot clock. In game clock, Westbrook, into the lane. On Amidu, forced up a shot, it rolls off. rebound of chief. In a tie ball game, Damien will bring it up the floor with 14.

You want the last shot. Damien clears mid-court. He's got 11. Tide at 1-15, crowd rising to the feet. George will defend Lillard. Red floor. Lillard with 47 a night. Working it down to two to one, a deep three. Unbelievable. This is not about hammering Westbrook. I said it yesterday. He's a relentless talent, uneven, a little stubborn for me, but he's moving away from the current game.

Lillard is an amazing talent who's moving toward it. That final sequence, one guy put on a 1995 move trying to draw the foul, the other guy pulled up and nailed a 37-footer. It's the way the world works. You can still defend Westbrook. Hell of a talent. You can still idolize him, buy his jersey. I get it. He's fun. He got us all into this series. He got us into the theater.

I watch him constantly. Westbrook gets me to the theater. But once I watch the movie, I like the new young movie star, the 28-year-old who went to Weber State, who's up in the Northwest. He's the new movie star. He's a killer. By the way,

I can put up the stats and the numbers. It was lobsided. One guy average 33 a game. One average 22. One shot 46 percent. One shot 36. Westbrook had a minus 43 in the Silard series. Lillard had a plus 55. Again, there's no reason to drop the hammer. No reason to bag on the old movie star. I just like the new one. I just like the new one. Last night, listen, Westbrook got his triple double. He's a monster. He's a triple double monster. He's an athletic tornado. He's unbelievably relentless. Royce Young covers this franchise OKC,

and he has been a Westbrook defender as I have been relentlessly on Russell. But he said something in his column last night, and it sounds like to me it's time for something parents do with their kids when they move into teenage years. It's time for the big talk. Royce Young said, when the thunder were rolling midseason, Paul George might have been the best player in the league.

The Thunder took on Paul George's identity. Westbrook happily took a step back. George was the best player. Westbrook, the complimentary piece. Westbrook was playing a different style, staying on the ball less, hockey assisting more, taking smarter shots.

But then Paul George got hurt, and the Thunder transition back to being Westbrook's team. The locker room was more serious and tense, with each game feeling significant, each loss frustrating. Oklahoma City, it's time for the big talk with Russ. You sit him down and how it lands, it lands. You say, Russ, you're going to get your money. We love you.

It's the same thing parents tell teenagers, but we're going to have a little sea change here. This is Paul George's franchise. Last night, Westbrook took 11 more shots than Paul George. We just can't have that. we just going forward that that can't be the case anymore it's the big talk the parents give the teenage kids now the parents have an advantage they've got built in authority their parents year 16 Westbrook has a four-year deal and they've enabled him ice cream for breakfast hugs after losses defending him after bad performances I'm not sure how it's going to land

I did like Westbrook after the game, put his glasses on, was humble, admitted he wanted to look in the mirror. So if you're okay, see, there's hope. I did like this from Westbrook last night. My process always look at myself first and figure out what I could have done better throughout the whole season to put my team position

to be able to win games. That's all I look at and figure out how I can be better. you know, coming back and how I could have did better to help us win the game. Like that a lot. It's no time for me to be a bully. No time for me to hammer Westbrook. He got us all into the theater. There's just a new cooler movie star now.

Damien Lillard. Let me shift to this. Damien's shot was the 37-footer heard around the world. And after the game, Paul George says, I don't like that shot. I mean, that's a bad shot. I care what anybody says. That's a bad shot. But, hey, he made it.

That story won't be told that it was a bad shot. We live with that. Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, and James Harden. That's not a bad shot. That's a new shot. And there's a big difference. Damian Lillard was 8 of 12 from 30-plus feet. Four of six last night.

Steph Curry has changed this game. If the NBA had a new logo, you know the old one. It's Jerry West. If they had a new one, it should be Steph Curry launching from 33 feet. I do not believe last night was a bad shot. It's a new shot. This is what the new logo should look like, Steph from 34. Russell Wilson has done this to the National Football League.

Russell Wilson has proved. athletic 5-11, occasionally run for first downs, that can win Super Bowls too. That can be the cornerstone of an NFL franchise too. Smaller, run around a lot, hyper-athletic, make throws, but Steph Curry has changed the NBA. That's not a bad shot. It's a new shot. And Russell Wilson is why Kyler Murray gets drafted and why 511 and a half Baker-Mayfield gets drafted. and why Johnny Mansell got drafted,

and why next year there's going to be another 5-11, six-foot guy that's going to get drafted. LeBron did this a lot in the NBA. He was a positionless player. It used to be the point guard was a one, shooting guard was a two, small forward was a three, the power forward was a four,

and the center was a five. And then LeBron came in and went, and we got this guy in Cleveland. Yeah, he can do all that stuff. He can do one through four easy and five if we have to. And LeBron sort of made the league really labelless and really positionless. I just think in pro football, 70 years ago, they used to use this term.

Well, it's the forward pass. Because apparently before that, they had backward passes. Now it's just you pass. Used to be called the forward pass. Then the game changed. This is what Amazon has done to retail. They've eliminated malls. It used to be, you'd say, are you going to do some online shopping?

And that's no longer a term. Now, all shopping is online. shopping. They're game changers. Steph Curry, Russell Wilson, and Amazon. That was not a bad shot. Not a lot of others can take it, but it's a new shot for Damian Lillard Hardin and

Steph Curry. Coming up next, Jim Jackson, plus the very latest on Big Ben's new contract, two-year deal for the Steelers, what it means, and the very latest on a potential draft move by the Redskins up the board. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays and noon east. 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard radio app.

You know, a friend of mine in the NBA just sent an interesting text to me regarding, you got to have a big talk with Russell Westbrook. This is kind of fascinating. So I was saying, you know, parents, you have to have that big talk to your son or daughter, and it's uncomfortable. But you're an authority position, so you have an advantage. With Russell Westbrook, you're his boss, but he makes eight times more than his bosses. But my friend said the big talk has happened before in the NBA, before Tony Parker won the finals MVP in 2007, Popovich went to Tim Duncan and told him, we got to go through Tony now. Tony Parker is going to run our team.

You're going to be the two. And Tim Duncan was like, I'm good. My friend said, when Kauai came along, Pop told Tony Parker, he's our best player now. We've got to go through Kauai, Tony, not you. And my friend said, Russell needs to adapt or die. And so San Antonio has gone to Tim Duncan and Tony Parker in a different time said, all right, it's time for the big talk. let's sit down and have some pasta in a glass ofino.

We're changing things. You're the two, not the one. I do think Russell, I think Russell could submit to some of that, but he's a very different personality. It's not a bad personality. He just, you know, it's like your strength becomes your weakness. I mean, that's just the way life works. Like hard-headed people, you take somebody from a hard-scrabble life, didn't have the

greatest family, and they rise to the top, and you're like, well, the reason they did it is because they were so hard-headed and so myopic and so single. single-minded, and then they get to the top, and you're like, God, I wish they weren't so myopic and single-minded. Well, that's how they got there. Russell Westbrook, if you look at where he came from in his life, and he was doubted by everybody, and he wasn't a five-star recruit in UCLA, he had to sort of forge his way into this league and be his guy. And at that relentlessness, which is what made Russell Westbrook, the MVP. And now we're all saying this morning, hey, scale back, be passive.

It's not really who he is. He's never been my kind of player. so I didn't buy in when everybody else bought in. I just said he's talented, fun to watch, but he would never be my one. Now you're trapped in O.K. Because he can't be your one. So good luck with that talk. Also, this story, Ben Rothesberger has agreed to a two-year extension with the Steelers three years total.

Big Ben is not Brady. It's not going to end this way. We all had a friend in college or high school who drove motorcycles, who jumped off houses into a pool, who partied really late. and they were hard-living people. And they don't age as well. You see him at 44, they look 54. That's Big Ben.

He's taking a lot of hits. He played the position differently than anybody I'd ever seen play the position. He sat there and got clobbered. Tom Brady is the guy that's 44 and you go to the high school reunion and he looks 38 and everybody says, I think he uses Botox. Did he get a facelift? Are those hair plugs? Brady has been built and he plays to age really, really well.

So does Matt Ryan. Big Ben doesn't. Cam doesn't. These are just guys that constantly play hurt. I think Big Ben knows this is the last contract. I don't think it's going to be painful. I think he still plays at an incredibly high level. I think he threw for over 5,000 yards.

He had twice as many touchdowns as he did interceptions. It's not an Eli situation where he's not effective. You can win a Super Bowl with Ben. Pittsburgh's got all sorts of issues. They're not all been. He doesn't solve all of them and he's not to blame for all of them. But I think three years and he's done. done. And, you know, I think Brady could play to 44, 45. I think Ben's going to get to about

39 and you're going to be like, he was the hard partying guy. He hasn't aged as well. He's just taken so many shots and hung in that pocket and taking a beating for years. So good for him. There are not many people on the planet in the history of this game that play like him, look like him, move like him and throw like him. So a new three-year deal. A formidable deal, deserves it. And there you go. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So Damien Millard sent the trailblazers to the second round of the NBA playoffs last night with a huge walkoff three-pointer. After hitting the shot, he waved goodbye to the Thunder. And his teammates ran out on the court to celebrate. Well, today Damien posted a little quote on Instagram, which seems to call out maybe all the Thunder or maybe a certain member of the Thunder, not sure. It says it is the unemotional Reserve Calm Detached Warrior Who wins, not the hothead seeking vengeance And not the ambitious seeker of fortune

In Sun Tzu, the Art of War You know the warrior that wins now? The Golden State Warrior. That's the warrior that wins all the games now, actually. Well, you know, maybe right now, but, you know, some things can be changing in the off-season. You're always talking about Damien being one of those guys that isn't like

Kevin Durant or LeBron that wants to go and join up with another team. He wanted to pave his own path. He wanted to win on his own. Well, Earl, Watson, my fiance, tweeted this a little bit earlier today. He wrote, got to tell this story. When everyone in the NBA

was teaming up or trying to strategize this summer, Dane told me this. I don't want to join them. I want to beat them. Calm as ever when he said it, but I got chills and said, realest bleep I ever heard. Hashtag, keep the competition alive. Actually, I remember when they were having this conversation? We were on vacation.

and he was telling me about it, and we were like, let's have a drink to that. Like, cheers to Dane. That's really different. This is who Dame is. And this is his personality. And now we're getting to see this on the biggest stage. This isn't even the first big shot he's hit like this. But to what you mentioned earlier, Westbrook created this theater for us.

And now we're getting to enjoy what, not only what Dame is, but what the Blazers are. Yeah, and I think there's also, and I think this is just the way politics and society works. There's a lot of fear-based stuff. LeBron and Kevin Durant are mobile. Janice doesn't want to leave. Damien doesn't want to leave. 90% of the stars in this league, in athletes in sports, they just want to sign, buy a house,

have a great life, and don't want to leave. But when owners are trading players left and right, players are like, okay, we get some power too. There's always this fear that, oh, my God, LeBron's just picking the best team, and Kevin Durant's picking the best team. Yeah, but Damian Lillard's not, and Westbrook chose, and Paul George chose to stay there.

And, you know, so I think Damien, there's a lot of Damien Lillard in this league. League. Janice does not want to leave Milwaukee. And by the way, Duncan never wanted to leave San Antonio. Tony Parker didn't. Manu didn't. So I think the Damon story doesn't get the headlines of the KD mobility story. But this is very typical and I like it. Well, there's value in balance, right?

And that's what Damien's bringing. So it's nice that he's able to have this moment on the biggest stage and show what, you know, having a franchise on your back is like. So, sorry, I got a little mixed up here. So the Lakers have started the search for their new head coach following the departure of Luke Walton. Ty Lou and Monty Williams seem to be the frontrunners, but now there's a third candidate in the mix, and that is Jason Kidd. Now, he was kind of rumored throughout the season because he talked about it a little bit, but he has reportedly been interviewed. According to Roger Turner of the L.A. Times, Rob Polinka and Kurt Rambis interviewed kid on Monday. So Kurt Rambis was in the interview thing now?

So now he's in the front office. Is that official? or he's just like stumbling to Applebee's and join him at the table? What does that mean? I don't know. So Rambus was at the table. I don't have the answer. Rob Polinkin, Kurt Rambis reportedly interviewed Jason Kitt. So I don't know.

I don't know how that all worked out or how that happened or transpired. You just kind of threw that thing in there. I don't know. I don't have the answers, Colin. I don't know what Kurt Rambis is. If you said that Trump interviewed Mueller and at the table was Robert De Niro, I'd be like, well, is he part of the White House now? I don't know. It's also being reported that Monty Williams is getting a follow-up interview.

So they're getting closer, I guess, to, I mean, obviously whatever happens with the Sixers series is probably a big determining factor in what move they make. Because he's going to have to make a decision as well. This may very very well be a position that he doesn't necessarily want, but he's got to show some leverage with the Sixers. So don't know what can end up happening, but they still don't have their front office sorted out clearly either. So finally, Josh Rosen has been showing up for voluntary workouts with the Cardinals. despite his uncertain future with the team. And Kingsbury has taken note of Rosen's efforts and is very impressed with how quickly he's picked up on the new uptempo offense.

I think Josh has done everything humanly possible to show what type of quarterback he is, what type of competitor he is. I've said it all along. I mean, couldn't be more impressed with his approach. And he's a great player. I mean, he's a top 10 pick for a reason. You see it out there. Just how cerebral he is, how quickly he's picked up our system.

Drive up that trade stop. Yeah, they're trading Josh Roswell. I hope he ends up with the Giants. So do I. I don't want to see him with Washington. They're a mess. Now, it would be very interesting if he ends up with the Patriots, but I think he ends up with the Giants. There's no way they keep both of them.

It doesn't make any sense to go into a season with two quarterbacks in any scenario, but it extra doesn't make sense to go into a season with a top 10 quarterback in his second year and a number one overall pick, rookie quarterback. That's too much dynamic. That's too much competition. If you have an older aging quarterback who's kind of still fighting for the spot and then eventually can take the back seat and help that rookie learn how to be a professional maybe. But I wish the draft was tonight.

It'll be able to be here very soon. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. By the way, this Mother's Day show, Mom, how much you appreciate her? 1-800 flowers.com, 36 Sorbet-Bey-R-R-S-E-R-S-E-R-D.

$1-800-Flowers-com, and of the code, Heard-Hurt, H-E-R-D. Let's bring in Jim Jackson almost a decade and a half in the NBA, the well-dressed man. Oh, my Lord. Westbrook. What about Westbrook?

I'm going to see you all morning. What do you think of what I've had to say? You've got all kinds of theories. Well, you're talking about this brain, this thing up here, stuff. I know. There's a lot of stuff working up there. What do you make?

So what do you do with Westbrook? What do you do with them? Well, what can you do? I mean, it's a management quandary right now for OKC. Barclay says move him to it too. Okay, so, but I always reference Larry Brown, Alan Iverson. Okay. Johnny Davis was there.

AI dominated the ball. He was at the point. Larry Brown comes in, my first year trying to figure out during that course of the year, he brings in Eric Snow. Yeah. So AI can move over to the two and play more. But at the end of the game, AI had the ball up. top. But that move wouldn't have happened if it wasn't Larry Brown. See, that's the difference.

So Iverson respected Larry. They fought. You know, I would tell the AI, say, listen, bro, you're not going to win this battle with Larry. Just figure out how to work your game within what he wants to do. And now when you see... By the way, that team got to the finals. They got to the finals. And when he talks about the guys he respects Larry Brown is what up. It was a fight. It was a battle. You were there. I was there. and it took AI a while to figure out what Larry was trying to say. And OKC, the only, listen, mistakes down the stretch of the game was due to a lack of discipline. Defensively, they gave up something. Offensively, some turnovers and tough shots, okay?

Unless, if you're going to move Russ to the two, five, but it better be somebody in that pilot share that he respects. You don't think he respects Billy Donovan? I don't think he's had a coach that, demanded the kind of discipline he needs to be the best Russell Westbrook. Okay? Scotty Brooks wasn't that way. Billy Donovan is not that way.

Okay? So Billy Donovan is going to go to the Russ and say, well, you know, I really think I need to move you to the two. Come on, man. He'll look at him like he's crazy. But let's say it's somebody in that pilot position, that first seat that he respects and says, it's not going to be like that all the time,

but we do think that we'll have a better attack with you and Paul George on the wing at times. But at the end of the game, you can still be at the point. So what you're saying is you've got to fire another coach to appease Russell Westbrook. Well, is Billy Donovan really the coach they think that can get them to the next step is a question. Well, I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

I'm saying is, haven't we done enough baby and how about let's stop firing coaches and say, Russ, you're at the two. It's the talk parents have with teenagers. Right. I mean, just instead of just keep placating him, just say, we're moving you to the two. Shroder's a nice player. And by the way, if you watch Shroder and Russell Westbrook's body language, they get along. Well, this year, you know, and I was listening to you and Rick earlier today, and I agree with Rick.

Russell has taken a big step in regards to falling back, especially at the beginning of the year when Paul George was really rolling. He allowed Paul to be Paul, okay? And Russell took that step. So you've got to give him credit for that. Yes. And I do believe that the structure of this team has to change. Because, listen, against this Portland team was a tough matchup because Stephen Adams couldn't guard the pick and roll.

Okay? Right. So they were doomed from the beginning, okay? What you need is to restructure a little bit. You need another shooter, and you need a pick and pop four or five guy to really work the pick and roll with these guys. So it's not only just Westbrook, why they lost, it's some structural issues that still need to change a little bit.

They don't have enough shot making. No, they don't. Is Paul George a one? No. Oh, time out. In my opinion. You don't think he's a one. No.

Why? I think he's a 1B. I think he's a 2. Should be your 2. Second best player. Yeah, I think he should be your, because listen, let me tell you something. I don't mind being vice president. Vice President is not a bad job, okay?

Dick Cheney did a lot being vice president, okay? There's nothing wrong with being a 2. Scotty Pippen was a great secondary guy. But you're paying him, Paul, like a 1. But that's the nature of the business. You pay some guys big money because that's what the salary struck. sure is. So that has, to me, that designation doesn't mean anything. To me, I think Paul is the perfect complimentary player to a big superstar. I really do, because the way he plays, two-way player,

I don't know if he has the persona or demeanor to be a one. So Russ is your one in your world. Paul's your two, but you want Paul taking the last shots. Well, it depends on the floor of the game. See, it can't be, a game is not scripted, okay? The game is not scripted. We go back to that Damon Lillard shot. Yeah. Great shot, right? Who made the basket right before that? It was McCollum, who hit that big two. Yeah. That put Lillard in the position to do that.

So the game is not scripted. So you like Westbrook more than I do. I do. Do you think I'm unfair to him? No, I think you have your criticisms because they're there. I'd rather have a guy that I would have to pull back and say, hey, I need to rein you in a little bit. Okay.

Then a guy that I would have to try to figure out every game. Is he going to show up? You know what I mean? I would rather have that. And I just believe in my heart that a guy like Russ just needs somebody that can direct him in the right way. He's never had that. Okay, give me your top five point guards in the NBA today. Okay, I want him in order.

You want him in order. Yeah, you can't just throw stuff out there. This isn't soup where you can just throw everything in. I want it in order. Let me write this down. That is. Yeah, one of these shows don't put the heat on you. No, you put the heat on.

I have the problem with it. Man, I love Kyrie. So do I. I love Kyrie. Put him number one. I got Kyrie 1. Okay. I got step 2.

I'm not pushing back. I love Kyrie. I got step 2. I got Hardin at 3. Okay. I got now I'm going to put, I got to put Dame in there at 4. You're speaking my language. Now, here's the, here's the thing.

Russ or Kimba? Okay. Oh, I tell. I'm going with Russ. It depends if I'm the owner. Well, no, no, we're not talking about it. What are we? What are we doing right now?

We're two guys at a bar talking. Well, I'm slosh then. So I don't even know. I don't even know. Exactly. That's it. Okay. So Kyrie, Steph, Hardin, Dame, I'm Darryl Morey if he's listening.

Right now. Right now, right now, Darrell is like, no, Hardin is number one. That's Darryor. They're all great. Yeah. I would say I would put Steph one, Kyrie two, and then it's just hardened. They're all great. Right.

I think Steph is the world's greatest shooter. I can't, I can't. He's the world's greatest shooter. Now, if you're a GM and you're talking about Steph, a lot of depends on where you're at. Is James Harden the same player at another organization as he is in Houston? He's great, but he's not. Dan Tony elevates him 8, 12%. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. So it's all dependent on that. Could Kimba be in that top four if he was with a different, if he was planning in Golden State? No, he's not staff. Okay, but okay. So we don't, but that's how you judge him a lot of times. Okay, so what we're acknowledging, we agree the four best guards are Kyrie, Steph, Harden, Dame. I don't disagree with that.

I'm still going to give Westbrook that fifth spot. Well, what are my options? Cambo, Westbrook, what else? That's about it. I mean, in regards to your top five. Oh, I like Chris Paul. I do Chris Paul. Chris Paul's on the backside of it.

So that's why I kind of put him right there on the backside. Coachable, tough defender. Well, but that, you know, some people in Clippeland might say otherwise in regards to coachable and things like that. I do Chris Paul. Okay. All right. We're close.

For the record, I have this theory. It's a crazy theory. Is that there have been, I don't even want to personalize this because it'll seem, I just don't want to give somebody else I've competed against. But there are times where I root for people to chaos. Because I know if there's chaos, I can swoop in. and maybe hire somebody in my network from another network if they have chaos. Did I give it away there?

So I can root for my rivals to have some chaos. Nobody gets hurt, but chaos is good because I can swoop in. So I'm the Lakers today. I ran the Lakers. I want the Sixers to get swept. I want Jimmy Butler to be like, get me out of here. These guys are cuckoo. They're young.

They don't play hard. And then you swoop it in. Because I don't think KD. I don't think Clay. I don't think Karee. They're not going to Lakers. No. Jimmy Butler, to me, is the,

The guy, if I'm the Lakers, I go after. He's temperamental. I think he can be convinced. You can sell him. He's a guy that you can, most of these guys, you're not Clay Thompson's personality. You're not swaying him. Jimmy Butler's moved. He's beacons.

He's the moving company. He's like, he'll get in a car. You convince him, boom. I'm rooting if I'm the Lakers for the Sixers to go man overboard and get Butler. Do you think Butler works for LeBron? Well, let me ask you this. you say that sometimes that Russell can change he is who he is

right think Jimmy can't that's what you're saying no I think Jimmy's built for the NBA moving forward more than Russell and okay so he can shoot the three a little better okay but I'm talking about as far as culturally and attitude why because from what I gather is that

he was really high on the Clippers list but right now because of some things that are going on they've looked at that culturally that they may not want that in the locker room. I agree. He doesn't fit the clippers. I totally agree with that. But you're not getting the other five guys. Well, no, because here's the issue. A lot of people, we have cap space. We can go get two max players. Well, it's very limited who you can get. And you named it because

those other guys, KD, Clay, they're not coming. Kauai's not coming. Anthony Davis is not a free agent. So forget about that. By the way, Jimmy, it's interesting. Jim Jackson joining us for the radio audience, 14 years in the NBA. With Brandon Ingram's blood issue, which is similar to Chris Bosch's, the guys I talked to in the NBA say Brandon's off the trade list. So I thought a year ago,

I got Brandon, I got Coosma, I got Lonzo. So Brandon's off the list, not tradable, and Lonzo can't stay healthy. I'm not sure the Lakers have enough to get Anthony Davis. It's a tough situation because their best leverage was during the year before all of this kind of stuff happened.

Even if you threw in a Josh Hart to kind of sweeten the deal if you needed something else. Now you're getting to diminishing returns on that potential that we saw from the rookies, okay? So the Lakers, now, I would rather be the Lakers than to be maybe New Orleans or Memphis because

if you structurally change the system, you can bounce back and be I still have LeBron. And you still got LeBron, but you're still the Lakers compared to a lot of other teams. So I'll take that dysfunction in the Lakers, but Jimmy is interesting from this perspective. The question I always has is, what do

you want. You say you want to win, but then you want it to be your team. So you leave Chicago and Minnesota could be your team, but you fought kind of with the guys, but you wanted to win. Then you got to Philly, you got a great opportunity not only to win, but to be an all-star every year in the east. Okay? Think about that. You got a chance to be an all-star every year in the east. And by the way, get paid. And get paid. Now, that changes when you get to the West, as Damien Lillard. Yeah, he's not going to be a All-Star. You see what I'm saying?

So all these intangible things that make it make sense. You're going to be the second guy here, quote-on-quote, but at the end of the game, the ball is going to be in your hands in Philly. So you're saying with Jimmy Butler, what do you want to be? What do you want to be? You know, do you want to win or do you want to win your way? What is it? Because it's no question he can play.

There's no question he can be an asset. If it's about winning, you just stay in the East. You stay with Philly. And all the other. stuff that comes with it. You're going to get that in the east. I mean, in the east right now, it's trending like this. But you'll be an all-star, you'll win, and

they'll pay you. And they'll pay you. And again, you'll have the ball in your hands at the end of the game. Either you're going to make a shot or you're going to make a play. Ben is not going to do that. Simmons is not built for that yet. Jimmy Butler is. Good seeing you, buddy. You got always. Jim Jackson. Good stuff. We've had

Ennis Canter, Enos Kanner, Jeff Schwarz Schwarz, Jeff Schwarz, Rick Buech, Nick Wright. NFL Draft Edition, Buyseller. around the corner. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. All right, we do it every day at this time. Buy, seller, hold. Here we go.

Time to buy. Colin will decide if he'll buy it, sell, or hold. All right, it's time for buy, sell, and hold. John, are you ready? Are you providing the question? I am providing. All right, let's go, John, buy seller or hold. Buy seller hold that Kyler

will not get drafted number one overall. Well, we know that quarterback has now always been the most important position in this sport. Now it's overwhelmingly so. In three of the last four drafts, a quarterback has been taken number one. And as we know, Cliff Kingsbury, a college coach who did the air raid system, recruited Kyler Murray greatly at the college level. And for the record, Vegas is usually good on this. They have Kyler as the overwhelming favorite to be.

be the first overall pick. So John, sell, sell, sell. Kyle Murray will get drafted number one overall. Buy seller hold that Josh Rosen will be a New York giant. Well, according to various reports, the Redskins now today want to trade up and get to the number five pick, which would be one spot ahead of the New York Giants who are telling you they're not going to pick a quarterback at six. I still don't necessarily believe it. It should be noted that the Giants have a lot of defensive weaknesses with Olivier Vernon going elsewhere, Landon Collins going elsewhere. So the Giants GM loves defense or the Giants need defense.

So John, sell, sell, sell. I don't think Josh Rosen will be a New York giant. I think it's the best place for him because I like their offensive pieces. Evan Ingram, the tight ends, Sterling Shepherd, Golden Tate, Sequin, Barclay, upgraded the O line last two years. I think it's the best place for him. I don't think you'll end up there. Buy sell or hold that Nick Bow,

Bosa will be the first defensive player drafted tomorrow night. Well, I think he's the second best player in the draft. My executives and scouts say Quinnin Williams at Alabama is the best player. Nick Bosa's second best. He had 12 and a half sacks last year at Ohio State. And when he left, they weren't the same defense. And you know the value of edge rushers? Just look what Kansas City gave up for Frank Clark, a first and a second round pick.

So John, I think in the NFL today, edge rushers are key, not interior defensive linemen. He'll go number one as defenses. go. Buy seller hold, John Elway will draft a quarterback in the first round. Broncos have the 10th pick. First of all,

they just signed Joe Flacco. And Flacco is really Elway's kind of guy, big, strong arm, sit in the pocket. There's also reports now that Elway loves next year's

draft class, which is from Herbert and Atua from Alabama. And also, they have massive needs on the offensive line. So I think they're much more willing to go heavy O-line this draft. So when they bring in a quarterback and with Flacco who's not mobile, they protect him.

So John, I don't think they'll take a quarterback in the first round. I think they'll take an offensive lineman first, second, and third, or two of those three rounds. By seller hole, Dwayne Haskins will be drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals. The reason we bring up the Cincinnati Bengals is because he played at Ohio State, And I believe the new coach for Cincinnati, 35-year-old Zach Taylor, is going to get over Andy Dalton fast. By the way, Andy Dalton had an injury. Tor ligaments in his thumb in November did not finish the season.

And he ranked 26, by the way, NFL in passer rating last year. And I think Zach Taylor is going to spend about six practices and go, I need a new quarterback. Dwayne Haskins is an Ohio State kid. By the way, Zach Taylor in his previous coaching career, went out and coached with Jared Goff, so it's not like he needs a nimble quarterback. Dwayne Haskins is not athletically nimble.

Jared Goff is not athletically nimble. So John... Buy, bye, bye! Yeah, I think the Bengals at 11, that's where I think Duane Haskin ends up, and I think it's a really, really good fit. And finally, by Seller Hole, the Raiders will give us the biggest surprise

of the NFL draft. Well, the Raiders are saying and leaking that they're going to be a big surprise, at number four. Maybe they'll trade for Janice in Milwaukee. I don't even know what big surprise means. I seriously, I have no idea. I think they're trying to sell tickets.

I think the revenue is drying up. They now have the most expensive left tackle in football, the most expensive wide receiver in football. And this is not a big revenue franchise to begin with, bottom end of the league in revenue. And now it's a lame duck franchise in Oakland, so they're selling no tickets. And the Golden Knights are selling season tickets in Las Vegas,

and they've got to sell Raider tickets. Mark Davis wants them to sell Vegas and Oakland. That's why I think the Raiders are leaking all this nonsense. Big surprise at four. You drafted a soccer player? What are we talking about here? I mean, I don't even know what that means. So John... Sell, sell, sell. They had the few of sacks last year. Josh Allen's a edge rusher from Kentucky, everybody likes. It's not really a surprise, though. That's not a really a surprise. Take a position you need. It's not... Yeah. By the way, tomorrow, and tomorrow's the NFL draft, I'm going to have Jay Glazer. He's terrific.

David Shaw for the NFL network is one of their analysts, Stanford coach. Daniel Jeremiah, moved the sticks podcast, former NFL scout, Peter Schrager. We're going to be crushing it tomorrow. If you turn to another show tomorrow, it's sad. I would be sad by you because you just, I mean, literally it is, yeah, that would be like choosing Westbrook today over Damian Lillard. There's just be a bad, bad choice by you. How good was that last night? That was just.

So fun. It feels like we really, It felt like a game, like we had a longer series, right? Right. It felt like a, like it was huge. We got everything we needed out of that series. You only downside to a great NBA game. I just sat there last night and I just couldn't stop eating.

Like when a game goes three and a half hours, I'm like, peanuts. I already had them more. I had a piece of chicken. I had a fruit roll. I had peanuts. I had half of a burger. I made myself. No, seriously.

You're such a grazer. Oh, totally. Well, cow hurt. What do you think? Cow, that's what my lineage. It all comes full circle. It's a herd. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

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