The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Russell Wilson, OBJ, load management, Cowboys-Eagles, and Tom Brady

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

Colin gives more reasons why Russell Wilson should be the MVP, why Odell Beckham Jr. wants and should be traded, his thoughts on the LeBron James-Doc Rivers remarks at each other, why the Cowboys-Eagles game has so much on the line, and why he thinks Tom Brady doesn't really care about not making the Pro Bowl. Guests include Nick Wright, James Harrison, Jim Nagy, and Bucky Brooks. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the Heard at Fox Sports Radio. com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching

HARD. Fox Sports Radio. Oh, on a Wednesday, what a beautiful job by Fox Sports. Look at our studio. Live in Los Angeles, this is The Hurt. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. If you are driving around and you're listening to us on our 300 radio affiliates and

XM Serious and a podcast and all that stuff, they have gone out. Beyond above and beyond the Call of Duty. Our Christmas set is absolutely remarkable. Tip of the cap to the production people who did this. They always do a great job decorating for the holidays. It's very, very charming. It'll put you in the holiday spirit. This puts me in the hall.

I got my sweater on today. Well, it's very cold in here, too. So it's literally like a little winter wonderland in here today. Well, it's great. That's the voice of Joy Taylor. It's great to have you in. So I don't know if you noticed yesterday. I'm not really an awards guy, but the Pro Bowl selections came out.

And that's, you know, we find out how good all these players are. And Baltimore had 12. Boy, Lamar Jackson, oh, my. He has 11 teammates who are unbelievable. He's got a Pro Bowl running back and a Pro Bowl right guard and a Pro Bowl tied in and a Pro Bowl fullback and a Pro Bowl left tackle. And a Pro Bowl kicker, a bunch of Pro Bowl defensive players. And then the Pro Bowl votes came out for Seattle.

Russell Wilson and Russell Wilson, he has won and he doesn't get a throw to him or hand to him and he doesn't protect him, but it's Bobby Wagner. He's on the other side of the ball. They're probably not even barely in the same locker room. That's interesting. Most valuable player. Now, I have always felt when they created the award, a bunch of people sat in a room and the word valuable was important. The word most wasn't and the word player wasn't. Because there's a lot of

awards. The key word when all these people, men, women sat in a room was, what's the key word in the mirror? Valuable. It's not most improved player. We've got that. It's the most valuable player. So what does value mean? Value to me and I take pride in this and what I do. The inability to replace somebody easily. It does not MPP, most productive player. Not most talented. player. It's not what the awards are. It's most valuable player. Howard Stern to FM radio. He left, dried up. How's Cleveland been since LeBron left? Dried up. How are the Niners for about four years after Harbaugh left? Embarrassing. Those were Howard Stern, LeBron, Jim Harbaugh on the NFL. Unbelievable. Okay.

Russell Wilson, one pro bowler to support him. Lamar Jackson's got 11 guys, six offense and special teams to help him. Now, I get that Lamar's a better story, and writers who vote on this stuff love stories. He's fun, he's exciting, he's unique, he's fresh, he's new, he's highly productive. But the word is valuable. Baltimore without Lamar Jackson, there's a lot of quarterbacks you could put in there, and it's pretty talented team. He makes them better.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, that's not the argument. Seattle's a bad football team without Russell Wilson. And they are now the number one seed in the tougher conference. The inability to replace you. Who in God's name in the NFL? Aaron Rogers has, we, we always argue that it doesn't have any talent. Aaron Rogers has more. Kansas City's got six.

Baltimore's got 12. Folks, what Russell Wilson's doing with the 31st best pass blocking line, below average special teams, defense is 27th and total yards, 29th against the pass. I'm outside of a couple of decent running backs, guys got nothing to work with. There's a huge difference between talented, J.J. Watt to me was talented. But the Texans are in first place again without him. Blake Griffin to me was super talented. Clippers are better since he left. Pistons still stink with him or without him. There's a lot of athletes that are talented. And there's a lot of

a lot of athletes that are productive, but how valuable are they? I'm not saying Lamar isn't valuable, but it's called most valuable player. I don't think there's anybody close. In fact, there's three players in the last decade in the NFL that, to me, are just more valuable than any player, and it's not Tom Brady because they won 11 games when he left. Andrew Luck, Aaron Rogers, and Russell Wilson. I mean, what's the Seattle Seahawks? franchise story without Russell Wilson. I'm from there. You know what it is? A lot of losses. And man, remember Steve Largent?

That's the franchise. That's the franchise. No, it's not Pete Carroll. Because Pete Carroll was there for two years and went 7 and 9 and 7 and 9. Well, Richard Sherman. He left. And they're the number one seed in the NFC. The word valuable is the word everybody struggled in the room to come up with when they name this award. Because they have most blank player in other sports and there's other words. Valuable?

One pro bowler? Others guys got left tackle, left guard, kicker, running back, full back. And by the way, although not pro bowlers, way better receivers. Just saying, I know he's not the cool story. Do you know Russell Wilson? here's a pretty good story for you, is the second leading passer rating guy in league history never received one MVP vote.

Eight years. I think that is a pretty cool story. All right, let's shift to this. Report. Steelers were among teams. Odell Beckham encouraged the trade for him. Ooh, that stings a little. So now the four teams that have been rumored to be after him or he's been rumored to be interested in are New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle, and the 49ers.

What do they all have in common? Great coaches and they win. Odell Beckham folks wants to win. He didn't put the four biggest markets. He didn't put the four teams for the most cap room. Odell Beckham's like, I want to win. I want to win games. so I want to go to New England.

By the way, New England doesn't pamper stars. Odell's not looking to be pampered. He's not. Pittsburgh's defined by Big Ben. He doesn't even want to be the biggest star on the team. Seattle is way up there. Way up there in the Pacific Northwest. It doesn't have to be in Paris, New York, or L.A.

And the 49ers. I mean, they don't even have their stadium in San Francisco. All four have in common wants to win. Not a drug guy. Not a crazy in-season guy. He didn't fight with coaches and getting arguments with it. He's I want to win guy. He's Randy Moss.

Hey, a little needy. A little needy wants a little attention. I get that. I'm Odell Beckham Jr. today. I demand a trade. And here's why, because Odell Beckham Jr. is the only NBA player, at least the first in the NFL. He's global.

Most NFL players go to American colleges. They're domestic. NBA guys are global. They come from Germany. They come from France. They come from Spain. They come from out of the country. NBA is a global league.

Mostly the NFL is a domestic league. OBJ is a global star. He has double the Instagram followers, double of even guys like Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Patrick Mahomes. He's also the first NFL player to get an NBA sort of shoe deal. He's the NFL's first,

first NBA player. And what do NBA players do? They're like, I'll take a little less money. out and go win. Do you think Anthony Davis is happier now that he's taking a little less in in L.A. or making more money and losing in New Orleans? Think Paul George now is a little happier in Los Angeles? Yeah, AD got a couple of weeks of pushback and Paul George, boo! I can't believe you left is boo, but nobody cares because we embrace NBA stars, the Miami Hedels, that take a little less because they want to win games. Kevin Durant. Okay, I'll take less. You can have Andre Aguadol and

Golden State. We don't really punish athletes when they take less money when they want to win games. In fact, I think we hate them more when they just go for the money and don't care about winning. That to me is ludicrous. I mean, I get wanting money, but once you get up to 300 million, what's that matter? You want to win games? You want to sit home and watch playoff games. Odell Beckham has told you the four rumored teams, Seattle 49ers, New England, Pittsburgh. He wants to win. He's not asking. He's not. asking to go to media centers. He's not asking to, he's not asking to go, be the highest pay. He didn't ask for the guys with the most cap space. He's just looking for guys well-coached win

games. Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, Kyle Shanahan. That's what he's asking for. Consistent winners. And Cleveland doesn't. And, you know, so when I look at this, I don't think even Cleveland would hold it against him. I think he should demand a trade. I think he should go to privately go to the general manager John Dorsey and if John says no then go public and be a little uncomfortable Cleveland needs offensive line help not weapons help so Cleveland can get offensive line help they're not going to find it all in the draft

and they need three new offensive linemen maybe four so if it's not going to hurt his brand it's kind of on brand he's an NBA guy he's a star we get that stars move this is on brand for him it's not off brand And this would be off-brand for, you know, wholesome Tom Brady or wholesome Eli Manning or this is on-brand for him. It would be weird for Drew Brees to demand a trade because we link him to New Orleans and Russell Wilson to Seattle. Outside of Cleveland, everybody would get it.

And Cleveland's been so bad for years that we don't really hold it against people. Even LeBron for leaving. We really don't. Cleveland did. We really did. don't. OBJ, you're the only NBA player in the NFL, demand a trade, privately first, public if they say no, it's time. All right, coming up next, LeBron takes a shot at the Clippers, and the Clippers take a shot bat at LeBron, the story behind the story coming up next. Nick

write this hour too. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, A blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows.

Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series. because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the bar like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah,

you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guys, get your own shampoo, Dove Men Plus Care, available at Walmart. Stop borrowing your girlfriends, your wives, get your own. Dove Men Plus Care.

So in Los Angeles right now, the two best teams in the NBA are. The Lakers right now are the best team. The Clippers are building sort of for the championship, resting some of their stars. It's called Load Management, primarily Kawhi Leonard. So LeBron took a not-so-finly-veiled shot the other night at Kowahua. why Leonard and the Clippers and load management. Here it is.

If I'm healthy, I play. That's just going to be your approach all year. I mean, that should be the approach. I mean, I don't know how many games I got left in my career. I don't know how many kids that may show up to a game that are there to come see me play. And if I sit out then what, you know, that's my obligation. My obligation is to play, play for my teammates.

And if I'm healthy, then I'm a play. If coach sits me out, then I'm not healthy. And it's just that simple. I prefer that, of course, from my start. is LeBron a little bit of a hypocrite. He's taken some nights off. But I've never thought of LeBron as load management guy. I mean, he did start the trend.

I think he took a night off and he called it load management. But I've always thought he's a guy that puts in the work. And then there's the Clippers with Kowai Leonard who clearly has a strategy and Doc Rivers fired back at the Lakers and LeBron. It's our philosophy. I don't know what theirs are. You know, I think theirs is whatever LeBron says it is. To be honest.

That makes a lot of sense to me. But, no, I think I like what we're doing. I think it's the smart thing to do. And, you know, who knows, we'll see it to end. Let me just say this. Load management works not only for Kauai. It works for the Clippers. You can go right now and get a Clipper ticket for $12.

The Clippers have been the exciting regular season team. It was called Lob City. And nobody cares. They got rid of all of them. They didn't take over Los Angeles. And when they had Lob City, they didn't have two NFL teams in town. They didn't have that new soccer team. They've been the regular season team that everybody talks about.

And it didn't move the needle whatsoever. It didn't get them a new arena. It didn't get them talked about more than the losing Lakers at the time. A seismic shift is needed in Los Angeles. When you share an arena with the number one brand in a sport, you don't make up ground by beating them in November. You gain ground by beating them in the Western Conference finals and then winning a championship.

So the Clippers are all in creating a seismic brand shift, the kind that steps on the Lakers in the conference finals. The team is deeper and more rested. And then they win a championship and they can get an arena out of it. They're not getting an arena out of it, winning more games in the regular season. But this is where the Lakers are different. The Lakers have more title 16 than the Clippers have playoff appearances, 14.

The Clippers charge 12 bucks for a good ticket. The Lakers charge 1,200. They have to validate that to the fans who come. They can't be all about the championship, although privately it's all about the championship. People pay a lot of money, and they want to be entertained, and people save all year in Los Angeles

in towns outside of the city to take their kids to one game, because that's how expensive it is. And it matters when you, you're the number one brand in the NBA on a nightly basis trying to deliver for the consumer. The Clippers give tickets away. Even this year, you can get them pretty cheap. And there, in a distracted sports market, the Lakers are the number one brand. It is a massive business. Titles are great, and they want them more than anything.

But there is a burden of responsibility to your consumers. That's why they re-sign Kobe for two years. Remember that? And it didn't help their young players because Kobe got people excited and you left driving home after watching the Lakers lose by four. But Kobe had 38 and you felt good about the experience. The Lakers are a concert. The Clippers are a recital. So the Clippers, the load management thing, the only way to create a seismic shift in Los Angeles where the Lakers are the number one brand and the Dodgers are number two and USC when they're hot as number three.

And the Rams are going to be number four. And the clippers are somewhere in the five, six. How do the clippers get to two? They'll never overtake the Lakers, but how do they get to two? Or maybe two A behind the Dodgers, a championship. So they're all in for that. They're all in for that. Load management works for them.

They're two different business models. And for the Lakers, you drive, you pay, you want to see your stars. Joy with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So the Lions announced yesterday that both head coach Matt Patricia and GM Bob Quinn will be saying with the team in 2020. It will be Patricia's third year as coach and Quinn's fifth as GM. Owner Martha Ford released an open letter to Lions fans about the decision, which read in part you deserve a winning team that you are excited to cheer for and proud to represent.

We also believe that the most successful teams in our league have a long-term plan, stability and leadership and exhibit patience to follow their plan. to that end, we're committed to the year three of Coach Patricia's plan. To be clear, our expectation is for the Lions to be a playoff contender in 2020. Patricia spoke about saying with the Lions, he said, it means the world to me. I think we've seen some strides that we've made with the team this year. We obviously need to improve and build on that going forward. He is 9, 20, and won as the Lions head coach, and they are currently on a seven game, or seven game losing streak.

Now, Matt Stafford had, had the fifth pick in the 2020s out. Yeah, Matt Stafford's been hurt. Right. So that gives them the out to do this. teams don't want to, especially chaotic teams like Detroit and Cleveland, don't want to fire another coach. I don't think he's working. I think the defense is bad, but they have, he does have an out.

My star quarterback's been hurt. Yeah, Patricia's been hurt. Or not Patricia. I'm sorry. Stafford has been hurt. Yeah. But I do also think that if you're going to commit to a head coach, I think you should give them three years.

Firing a coach year after year after year, the way that the Browns do is not sustainable. Like, I don't think Freddie Kitchens is the guy. but you got to give him three years, right? If it was a decision that you made and I think that they will move off of him. When I came over to this company, I signed a four-year contract. And the reason being is because I told everybody,

it's going to take us a year to figure out our set, our staff. We really didn't click here until about month 20. I mean, I was literally counting the months. First year, 15 months, we were like still, we didn't have the right staff, the right guests. So think about a football coach. You're trying to change the culture. You can't do it in Cleveland.

You can't do it in 16 games. You can't. And again, I don't know that, I mean, we're just comparing Cleveland because obviously they're comparable franchises in this situation. I don't necessarily think that Freddie Kitchens is the guy, but we wouldn't really be able to say that unless he had, I think, three years. Like, I think three years is a sufficient amount of time. And if you see a step up in the third year, then like, okay, then we'll trend forward.

But there's a reason why you have multiple year contracts. As you said, things don't happen overnight. So look, they're not in a great situation, but I do like that the lines are coming out front before, you know, the season is over and saying this is what the direction is for next year. It gives the franchise stability. It gives Patricia the comfortability to do his job

without the concern of possibly losing it so he can make long-term decisions. And that's the other thing with coaches that don't have job stability, like, for example, Cleveland. You're making decisions to keep your job as opposed to making decisions that will benefit the organization and the players and the city long term.

Right. So when you have a noncommittal situation or you have an uneasy unstable situation, you're going to make different decisions, which is why that matters. So the cults have been eliminated from playoff contention, but they're not going to make a change at quarterback. Head coach Frank Reich, said they have no plans to test out third string

quarterback Chad Kelly in the final two games and are committed to Jacoby Brissetti. He said Jacobi's our quarterback. We're still fighting to get better for these next two games and really for next year. Jacoby is still a second year starter. They are six and eight this season and they have the Panthers and they're at Jacksonville. His last four games are owned for 57.8 completion percentage, three touchdowns, two

interceptions, 78.1 pass a rating. He is their quarterback for the next 20 games. He is their quarterback. That's what he should say. He's the next, he's their quarterback for the next 20 games, but they're drafting a quarterback if they get an opportunity. Well, they should, though, because it's not like they gave Jacoby Brissette a seven-year contract. They gave him a two-year deal.

A reasonably priced two-year deal. And if they do draft the quarterback, that would be a good situation for that quarterback to sit behind someone like Jacoby Percette, who is a great pro and has shown the ability to win games. I don't think anybody thinks he's Andrew Luck, obviously. He was back up to Andrew Luck. Otherwise, he would have beat Andrew Luck out for the job.

But again, this is something that I like to hear from teams, because what I can't stand is when you go into a situation where it's constantly like, you know, is this the guy, is that the guy, where we're going to see what's going on with Chad Kelly? Like, for what? we know what Chad Kelly is. Like stick with Jacoby Percette, commit to it, and build a stable situation.

So only three players from the Patriots were named to the Pro Bowl this year, and Tom Brady was not one of them. The last time that Tom Brady was not a pro bowler was in the 2008 season when he suffered a season-ending knee injury in week one. He's been selected 14 other times in his career, which was tied for the most in the NFL. He is along with Peyton Manning, Tony Gonzalez, Bruce Matthews and Merlin

Olson to be selected to the Pro Bowl 14 times. That's a lot. It is. He's very good. He's good at the football thing. How many Pro Bowl receivers that were on there for the Patriots? Well, they have Stefan Gilmore.

He plays defense. Dante High Tower. That's defense. Matthew Slater. That's special team. So he didn't have a single teammate who's elite. Oh, that's funny. He has elite teammates.

Where? Where? It's two. 55-man roster. Lamar Jackson's got 11. He's got a guy that's a gunner on special teams and a couple of defensive guys. He probably doesn't even know him. The AFC quarterback's Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, and Deshawn Watson. I don't have a problem with that. It's surprising that Tom Brady isn't a pro bowler. Well, he's not a pro baller this year.

This year. No, not not with Mahomes and Deshaun and Lamar. He's not. But the bigger takeaway is, as you mentioned, what other teammates. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is going to start to become part of the actual permanent conversation about Tom Brady's career in New England. Yeah, maybe you should have a little help. What if I had Bob Taylor and he stunk instead of Joy Taylor? The show would be nothing.

I agree. Yeah, you need help. What if I had Larry Goulet? Well, that's a bad example. Larry Goulet was pretty good for me, actually. All right, Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Hurd-Lie News. I want to hear Nick Wright's take on this. Nick Wright, first things first. coward global satellite network. I don't know if you noticed that Tom Brady had no pro bowlers, no pro bowlers on the offense. What did you make of that, Nick Wright? It's tough for skill position guys to make pro bowls when the quarterbacks dropping balls

at your feet and sailing them over your head. You got to really feel in this offense for Lacos and for Mohammed Sunou that they could have maybe gotten there with a better opportunity. Sony Michelle maybe feels like he could have made it if defenses had to respect the passing game at all and weren't stacking the box. So, yeah, I did notice it, and I feel bad for those guys that are having to deal with a 42-year-old quarterback who is not allowing them to exhibit their obvious greatness, Colin Cowher. I want to go to a Drew Breeze takeaway, because I've said this before. I call it the Great Eight. Eight greatest quarterbacks I've ever seen play. I put Breeze in there two years ago, and people said, you're out of your mind, and I just said,

It's not always just about, you know, the MVP awards. The It, the Leadership, blah, blah, blah. I don't have Aaron Rogers or Farve in there, though they're very close. I don't have Steve Young in there. I don't have Russell Wilson, though Russell's close. But you did something the other day with quarterback tears, and you got some pushback on the breeze conversation. Fire away.

Yep. So, yeah, I'm just going to do from the merger to now. I'm certain Johnny Unitas was a great place. player, but I don't know that anyone actually ever saw him play. So I'm going to set those the Sammy balls aside. There's three tiers. There's the undisputed goat Tom Brady. Then in the next tier, there is Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, and I would include John Elway. Some people would say Marino should be ahead of Elway. I can't get over the five Super Bowl appearances with Elway. And then there's the tier Drew Breezes in along with Farr, Rogers, and Marino. And the reason I

wanted to make this point is I knew there was going to be some momentum towards, well, actually, was Drew Breeze better than Peyton Manning? They played in the Super Bowl and Breeze won. Breeze now has all of the records. And that makes a lot of sense, except we watched the games and there was never a period. And I love Drew, where Drew Brise was considered the best quarterback in football. There was never a moment where I would, where people would say he was better than Peyton Manning. And the analogy I used was, if you didn't ever watch baseball and you just looked at the record books, you would say, oh, Hank Aaron might be the greatest player of all time. But people who actually watch would tell you, as great as he was,

he wasn't even the best player of his era. That was Willie Mays. Even though Hank has everything more than Willie Mays, that's where Breezes. But one thing that I do want to say in two Breezes, his credit. When Peyton Manning threw his 538 touchdown pass, it was a season where he had been benched and was at the very end. When Tom Brady throws his 539 touchdown pass, it says a 42-year-old who can't get these skill position guys in the Pro Bowl that we just discussed. Drew Brees did it in a game where he was 29 of 30 and was perfect. So the fact that at this late in his career is playing at this high of a level is a testament to him, but nobody actually believes he was ever better than Peyton Manning, which was some of the conversation yesterday that I tried to quell a bit.

Yeah, I think, by the way, I think your tears are, I don't, I don't agree necessarily with tier three, but I actually think your argument's good, smart, and the top four I think you have right. Let's now shift gears to Baker Mayfield. Pro football focus has loved him forever. They're acknowledging now he's Dwayne Haskins. You loved him, and I said, slow down, slow down. Police video grabbing stuff, quarterback's a grown-up position.

He's too immature. Can you acknowledge today that you were a little hyper, a little on Baker, or do you still grab the, it's Freddie Kitchens fault? Well, I think it's obviously Freddie Kitchens hasn't helped. I also think that the moment we had before the year, where I had Baker ranked ahead of Deshawn Watson, and you asked me if I have a television, you appear to be ahead in that argument.

I will concede that. However, I am a person who once upon a time bought up a bunch of Blockbuster stock when it was at like 18 cents because I was like, well, how much lower can it go? And the answer was to zero and I lost all the money. But right now, I'm not saying Baker's the Blockbuster stock. What I'm saying is it's not going to get,

worse than this. I saw him be brilliant in Oklahoma. I saw him be excellent last year. Now, you made a very compelling case about what box does he check, and he sure seems to still think he's a better athlete than he actually is when it comes to escapeability. I think with the right coach, with the better system, he can recapture some of his rookie season. But at the moment, you appear to be closer to right than me, but I'm not yet abandoning Baker-Mafield. One more football topic. OBJ is global.

He's not domestic. Most of our football stars, even Brady, are domestic stars. NBA basketball, it's a global product. We saw the NBA China deal blow up. It's a part of the business. OBJ is the first NBA player in the NFL. He has double the Instagram followers.

He spends a lot of time in Europe in the offseason. He is a shoe deal, which just did not exist, even for Brady and Rogers and Mahomes. I think he needs to demand a trade from Cleveland. I think he's a good kid who's a little needy. Aren't we all at 24? He's Randy Moss. I don't have to worry about effort, quality of human being.

I have to worry about that. A little needy. Look at me a little bit. I get it. Stars are like that. But I do think he's an NBA business model. We would be okay with him moving if he went to a better team. And the four teams we've heard rumors about are all winning teams.

I think he should demand to trade the John Dorsey privately. And if not, doesn't work, go public. And Anthony Davis, it be a little uncomfortable for two months. What say you? Is it nuts? You know him. No, I don't think it's nuts. I don't buy the report that he was asking the Steelers to trade for him.

I know they're a great franchise, but they are unsettled at quarterback and they play in really cold weather. of those things seem to be super attractive to Odell. But Odell does deserve to play with a good quarterback for the first time in his career. I thought he was getting that with Baker. He has not. So much of the sideline stuff has to do with lack of winning, not lack of touches. And the truth of the matter is, he now, as much as I love him, he's got as many great seasons, three, as he does what the hell happens seasons?

three, he's going to be in year seven, and these careers can be shorter than we think. So if he does get moved, it is incumbent upon him to make the next place work. Yeah. Finally, I like and prefer LeBron's load management strategy. But I can't. Oh, thank you for asking me about this. I'm so happy you're asking me about this, but go ahead. But the Clippers have been fun in the regular season and excited.

and nobody gives a rip and we still think of them as second tier. They're going all in a title. It's the only seismic home run they can hit the change, the paradigm in L.A., where they're just not another team. I get what they're doing. I just don't like it. I prefer the Lakers-Lebron way. Your thoughts?

Well, listen, of course LeBron's right that you have a responsibility to a degree to play when you're healthy. No one is saying you've got to play all 82. but load management has hurt the league because people are acting as if what Kauai is doing is standard. It's only standard for Kauai. No one else is missing anywhere close to the number of games Kauai is missing, which is why Doc Rivers comments were so incredibly rich when he's like the Lakers do, whatever LeBron

wants. You coach a team who had a player come to you and say, I will sign here if you move heaven and earth to acquire this specific player, and by the way, I'm only going to show up to work three out of four games. And they said, no problem, Mr. Leonard, what else would you like? And but there's a reason for this. And this is why it's important, because the same day Doc Rivers took a shot at LeBron, Kevin Garnett was on Bill Simmons podcast, and he said, oh yeah, we had LeBron shook, we, what did he say? We defeated LeBron, and the only reason the heat beat those Celtics is because basically the league had the fix in.

We have Paul Pierce go on television all the time and say that he's a better player than LeBron, that LeBron got unfair help. We now have Kevin Garnett saying the fix was in and Doc Rivers taking a shot. What do all those guys have in common? They still are not over that LeBron James ended the Big Three era in Boston

and then to add salt to the wound, took Ray Allen from him as well. That's when Doc Rivers then left. That's when KG and Pierce then went to Brooklyn. That's when it all fell apart. So as much as Doc Rivers can be respected, his commentary on LeBron James should be understood. There is a history there. And his commentary on one player controlling an organization, you've got to look in the mirror, pal,

because the claw controls the clippers more than any player controls any organization in all of sports right now. I agree with that. Nick Wright, great seeing your first things first. Have a happy holiday, buddy. You too, man. Merry Christmas to all you guys. Talk to you soon. All right, good stuff. Coming up next, a ridiculous Eagles Cowboys this weekend.

And I just read an article, and it says the biggest game of the year, biggest game of Carson Wendt's career. Put down the typewriter. What? Not top five. And I'll explain that coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves,

their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, games from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a lot. a decade of my own experience in the middle health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, Fam? Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and

Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Eagles, Dallas play this weekend. I've learned something in my years broadcasting.

The bigger the game, the more ridiculous, the reaction after it, and the more ridiculous the projections before it. WIP Radio, Philadelphia, this is a sports town that thought Nick Foles was better than Carson Wentz. I'm not joking. There's no punchline. They really thought that. Nick Foles, by the way, is now carrying a clipboard

for a fourth place team. Nick Foles didn't win a game this year. Nick Foles got replaced by something called Gardner Minchu. This town thought Nick Foles was better than Carson Wentz. So when Philadelphia talks, just smile. It's not worth getting into an argument. Let them have their pale ale at the bar and get into fistfights. So this is an organization and a fan base that just doesn't know what they're talking about most of the time.

So WIP Radio, you call and scream a lot on that station apparently for Nick Foles. this is the biggest game, referendum game for Carson Wentz. Here's the article this week. Referendum, biggest game in his career. Really? So Carson Wentz loses. Is he not talented? Jason Garrett wins.

Is he now a great coach? Dak wins. Is he an all-time great franchise top five quarterback? Dallas wins. They're eight and seven. Are they not still underachieving? What changes in this game? Nothing.

This game's not a referendum for anything. It's just a game where one of these two underachieving messes make the playoffs and will be the weakest NFC playoff team. Remember what I said several months ago these teams met? And the world went crazy on it. Oh my God, this means Dallas is great. And what I said then three months ago, two months ago is what I'll say now about this game. Philadelphia and Dallas, neither of these teams are good enough to put the other away.

They've got massive secondary issues in Philadelphia. both have brutal schedules. I think the loser of this game is fine. I mean, as fine as somebody is in that division. That's exactly how I feel today. These are not good enough teams to separate from anybody, but they're talented enough that they can sort of mostly hang with almost anybody not named Baltimore.

There is no referendum on this game. Carson Wentz got his money, has total support from the owner, absolute support from the coach and GM, He's won games back-to-back weeks with nobody to throw to. Nobody to throw to. I mean, it's remarkable. They're winning games.

They beat Green Bay when they actually had some components. But they've mostly not had them all year. But the bigger the game, the more we overreact after it, and the more projection we offer before it. This game means nothing. I mean, this is the idea that three quarters of Philadelphia thought Nick Foles, who just got beat out by Gardner Minchew, was better than Carson Wentz, shows you. This happens in these cold weather cities. They like sports more than warm weather cities.

And it's very obvious why. In warm weather cities, you can go outside, you don't watch as much TV, you bail on your team when they're average. There's more stuff to do in Miami than there is in Buffalo. And in Miami, if your team's bad, you just go outside and there's cute girls. cute guys, go to bars, Port City, restaurant. Buffalo, it's minus nine in snowing. You stay inside and you watch a story about the bills. So these cold weather cities, they get their great fan bases, they love their teams,

but that creates sort of a intensity and passion that borders on absurd. And Philadelphia can be just absurd when it comes to their quarterbacks where they've not had very many good ones. In fact, you can argue they've never had a great one. Randall Cunningham, you had Jaws, you have. Donovan McNabb, they're certainly all good if they had the all-time great. Not really. Carson Wentz is the most talented player they've ever had at that position in the history of the city.

And an hour ago, you thought Nick Foles was better. There's no referendum on anything in this game. It's kind of amazing that Philadelphia is still hanging around despite the fact that the first month they had cluster injuries in the secondary. The second month, they had cluster injuries on the offensive line. The third month, they had cluster injuries now in the wide receiver unit. He's throwing to tight ends and running backs you've never heard of. In fact, one of the, I was looking at this this morning.

One of the last, one of the winning touchdowns last couple of weeks was to Greg Ward. Two years ago, he was a quarterback for the Texans. Or no, the Houston Cougars, my bad. Wrong Houston. Houston Cougars. He was a quarterback in college. And then earlier this year, he played in the AAF, San Antonio Commanders, a year ago. That's one of his winning touchdown throws.

So this game's done a referendum on anything. Oh, you know, there's a lot of different versions of me. There is dad me, there's work me. And a new character I'm trying to develop is a fair column. I can have strong punitive opinions, but I'm also, I try to be very fair. And so, you know, I used to do something all the time called buy, seller, hold. And sports are all kind of like stocks. Am I buying the player?

let's say in the NFL right now, Patrick Mahomes is $100 stock. Baker Mayfield right now is like a $22 stock. He and Dwayne Haskins at the bottom. But I am going to recommend we buy Baker Mayfield stock. Now that is work, Colin, and fair calling. That's interesting. So why you need to buy Baker Mayfield stock? because one of his big support groups today

wave the white flag in him. They give up. They stop supporting him. His number one support group, maybe number two, wave the white flag. I'll support Baker next. Geico takes 15 minutes, save 15% in car insurance. Go to geico.com and see how much money you could save. One more herd?

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever. you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the

drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments, to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing

and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows, without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when

they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ah, here we are hour two, live in L.A. Studio looks great. This is The Hurd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me. Joy, how are you?

I'm great. I'm in the holiday spirit. Looks very nice here today. Sparkly. Well, where are you going for Christmas? I'm going to Pittsburgh. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to fly Christmas Eve. It shouldn't be as bad as Thanksgiving Eve, right?

I'm flying on Christmas Eve. Yeah. I don't think Christmas Eve is busy at the airport, is it? I think everybody's by, I think Saturday and Sunday the airport's going to be jammed. Yeah, most people leave before Christmas Eve. Yeah, 23rd will be rough. So we're on the air next week, by the way, Monday and Tuesday Christmas Eve. Then we bolt.

I fly to Utah. You fly to Pittsburgh. Yeah. I'm going to hang out in the snow. I will likely be hanging out in the snow, too. Okay, so it's time to introduce a new character on the show. Fair, Colin. So I was never a huge fan of Baker-Mayfield.

I think he's an NFL player. I would not have picked him in the first round. I do not think he's Drew Breeze. I'll give you a prime example. When Drew Breeze broke the touchdown record on Monday, the following day, every talk show host in America talked about it. Did you notice none of them talked about his athletic ability? They talked about the guy, the human being, the resilience and the toughness,

the maturity, the competitive flair. how he basically is the franchise. You can trust him, how players love him and respect him. We didn't talk about his accuracy and his arm. So the comparisons to Drew Breeze on Baker Mayfield to me were ridiculous. Their temperament, their maturity, their leadership styles are completely different. They're different. If you want to compare Baker Mayfield to Jim McMahon or Jeff George or in terms of temperament and style,

I get that. has nothing in common with Drew Breeze other than they're both about six feet tall. But everybody now is selling Baker Mefield stock, including pro football focus. Now, they have been his biggest supporters. They had him number one quarterback coming out of college, not Lamar, not Donald, not Josh Allen, not Rosen Baker. I did not. They are acknowledging he's a disaster. They're kind of waving the flag on him.

I'm going to read this to you. Ultimately, while the situation, may not be perfect for him. It was the Brown's drop-back passing offense, which is the primary problem. Only 52% of his targeted passes this year were considered accurate per hour charting. Only Duane Haskins,

quarterbacks with at least 100 such drawbacks, were close. He's Baker's awful. Today I could bring out the hammer. I could crush Baker, but I'm not going to because he's not this bad and it's not all Freddie Kitchens. Next year, this is why I didn't think Baker was going to have a huge year,

although I thought he and OBJ would be more productive. Next year, we already know who they play. They play the AFC South and the NFC East and the Jets. Okay. So the AFC South is bad teams and inconsistent teams. And the NFC East has two rebuilding messes. And the Jets, nobody trusts them. So even more than that, this year, he had to face Belichick and Mike Vrable early and Wade Phillips early.

What's interesting about the schedule next year is they won't play a first play schedule. And most of the teams they play have offensive coaches. Right now, the Giants do. Dallas does. Philly does. Cincinnati twice does. The Jets do. Inconsis, Texas does.

the Colts do. The Jags are going to hire an offensive guy. So he's going to go from facing very good defenses and defensive coaches to more offensive, leaning, inconsistent to mediocre teams. Baker's going to be better. He's going to do fewer commercials because fewer are going to be offered. He's not going to be as distracted. They're going to have a weaker schedule.

They're going to play weaker defenses. They're going to play weaker defensive coaching staffs. Baker's going to be better. better. He's never going to be Drew Brees. To be great in this league, temperament feels like about half. Lamar, all in, Deshawn, Russell, Andrew Luck, the guys that really you build around, a lot of it's upstairs. Do you have this sort of intuitive maturity? It's innate. It's who you are. You're a grinder. I mean, Lamar Jackson had he been offered commercials would have said, I haven't done anything yet. It's just not who he is.

Brady for years was offered commercials, winning Super Bowls. He said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Finally did one with all his offensive linemen. Baker's got some instinctive, intuitive things I'm just not a fan of, and he's not Drew Breeze. But the schedule's weaker, the coaches are weaker. He'll face several teams with new staffs. Washington will have a new staff.

The Giants potentially could have a new staff. Jacksonville's going to have a new staff. There'll be no Pete Carroll, no Belichick. There's going to be a lot of coaching changes. for the opposition he plays, Baker will be better next year. Listen, you play Cincinnati twice a year? Okay. He's going to be okay.

He's a franchise quarterback. Not mine, not mine, but he is a franchise quarterback. Going to play a game today with James Harrison. It's called Harrison or Harris-on or Harris-Off. But before we get to that, let's bring him on. 15 years in the NFL, all-time sack leader for the Pittsburgh Steelers, James Harrison, multiple Super Bowls, multiple Pro Bowls. All right, before I get to our little game here,

I said, listen, NBA players often demand trades. We hate them for an hour, but if they take less money, they want to win games. OBJ is not a bad human. His career stacking up the injuries and losses, giants in Cleveland. I said, if I was OBJ, I would privately demand a trade. I never fit, never my place.

The teams he wants to go to reportedly New England, Seattle, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, A coaches winning cultures. The kid wants to win. Yes. So that's one thing I'll say about it. I don't have a drug past. He's Randy Moss.

He's great and a little needy. Whatever. Demanding a trade. Are you okay with that? I'm okay with that. I don't see a problem with that. I think the reason NBA players can demand trades and get it done is because their contracts are fully guaranteed.

And you know, like, I have this player here. I have to pay him no matter what. And if he's here and he doesn't want to be here, am I going to get the best out of him, get my money's worth. No, I'm not. So what I do is I find where he wants to go, a team that's willing to accept the terms that I wanted to give to get him there and trade him. I don't see a problem with a player in any position wanting to do that. So if NFL players finally get that same setup going, then you will see a lot more players going places that they want to go getting

out of situations that they don't want to be in. I have no problem with a player wanting to go somewhere else if he feels the situation he in isn't fitting for him. And do you think, BJ is a good guy. Needy but a good guy. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. He's a good guy. I mean, I've had conversations with him. I've talked with him. He's a good person. You know, he wants to win. He's looking at it, you know, and he has injuries. He's playing through injury right now. He has been.

And even, you know, Becker-Mayfield said things weren't handled correctly. So with that being the case, you know, he wants to win. He wants to win now. And he doesn't see that happening there. And the fit is just not working for him. Tom Brady didn't make the Pro Bowl. Maybe a bigger concern. Not a single offensive player for the Patriots made the Super Bowl. Lamar's got 11 teammates who made the Pro Bowl. Tom's got Dante High Tower in a corner.

And Matt Slater, a terrific special teams guy. There's been a lot of blame on Brady this year. I think it's just as much the culture and it's a rigid system. It's hard for young players to walk into it and star. It's a very rigid, complex system. That's why they like guys like James Harrison. They like guys that are in the league. Stefan Gilmore, you know the game.

I'm not teaching you the game. You're 29, you're 30. I blame a lot of this on their culture, which is too rigid. I wouldn't blame it on the culture. It's just they're number two and drops. If a lot of these guys catch these balls, then the numbers are totally different from what you're seeing now. And Tom has done more with less in the past.

And right now it's getting to that point to where he's not able to do that. It's not a Tom Brady year. It's not a Tom Brady performances that you're used to seeing. The, you know, the offensive line is so bad. They can't pass block. They can't run block. He's not getting that normal, you know, time that he needs. So they're trying to set up different ways to get the ball out of his hands faster.

And, you know, guys are jumping on to, you know, that he's going to do a quick throw to whoever it may be. Julian is playing hurt. And at times he looks like he's just wore down in, you know, third and fourth quarters of games. And when you're playing hurt, it wears on you. It makes you physically tired along with the actual pain that you're trying to play through. Yeah, it's funny. I told my son this. When you're cold skiing, you got to be warm because if you're cold, it's saps your energy.

When you're hurt, same thing in football. It just sucks the life out of you. Yes. I said I'm going to support Baker. I think next year they face weaker teams, third place schedule, far more offensive coaches than defensive coaches. Baker's fine. He's not Drew Brees. Stop the comparisons.

I still think he's a stock you can buy. on the market he's a stock that's at 25 and I think he's closer to a $40 to a $50 stock. Do you buy that or are you done with him? I buy it and here's why I buy it is because he has regressed from what he was last year even coming out from his rookie year coming out of college. He was like one of the most accurate, you know,

throws that were coming out. Now you're seeing him consistently throwing the ball high and I think that comes down to things as far as like he doesn't have Freddie Kitchens as his quarterback coach anymore. That is, that is, that's the head coach now. I don't see you letting a rookie pick his head coach, but okay, that's what you do. Now he has another quarterback's coach.

His quarterback's coach is a guy named Ryan Lindy, Lindley or something. Yeah, yeah, played. This guy played for five teams and three years in the NFL. I think he got a three touchdown, 11 pick record. And some guys aren't great players and they're better coaches. But he was coaching as a GA, a, in San Diego State in 2017-2018. He was a running backs coach last year,

and now he's Baker's quarterback coach. So I'm trying to understand exactly what it is that he is going to be teaching him that obviously is not helping him to go to another level from what he was last year to where he is this year. And when that's your actual guy that's supposed to be teaching you to improve

and you're actually regressing, and he's not a proven coach himself, then what are you doing? Do position coaches matter that much? I believe my position coach was Keith Butler, and I credit Keith Butler with everything that I have except for. The only person I credit more is Dick Leboe. It's Dick Leboe and it's Keith Butler.

My position coach was a great, great, great position coach. What did he take a pull out of you that you wouldn't have had? He gave me all the skills that information and knowledge to go out there and play my position, and things where he's like as far as just technique, you know what I'm saying, and how you can perform better if you're set up a different way to get the run done versus get the pass done or transitioning to that.

Like your position coach can help you a lot. It's Dick LeBoe and it's Keith Butler. Those are the two guys I credit. Without Dick LeBoe, there's no James Harrison, but Keith Butler is the guy that formed what Dick LeBoe ended up putting me into. All right, here we go. We're going to play the game.

James Harrison joining us. Harris on, Harris off. I'll give you my four awards I would give. Are you on it or you off it? All right, here we go. Harris on. I love this graphic. Okay, here we go. You can look really mean when you want to.

All right, Harrison, Harris off. Russell Wilson has one pro bowler. Lamar has 11. Russell Wilson has the 31st best pass blocking line. The 29th defense were special teams, and they're the number one seed in the tougher conference. Wilson's my MVP, on or off. Harris off.

Okay. I got to get that to Lamar Jackson. I don't care what you do have. What you don't have is about your performance of whatever it is that you do have, okay? And Lamar was told by every team that he is going to need to transform to a receiver. And Harbaugh gets him. He brings him in, and he makes him into one of the most prolific players in the game right now. Okay.

You're a Lamar Jackson. guy, Harris-on-Harris-off, my coach of the year. Nobody's mentioning him, but a coach that does more with less, Sean McDermott of the Bills, one pro-bowler in a division with the reigning dynasty, is going to make the playoffs, double-digit wins. The Bills, Sean McDermott is my coach of the year, Harris-on, Harris-off. Harris-off. You're way off today.

How you not go get at the hardball? He took something that 31 other teams said it wasn't possible and made him into exactly what he is right now, which he's going to be is the MVP. You've got to get that to hardball. 11 pro bowlers. Front office sounds great. He made 11 pro bowlers.

What? Made. Made. They were drafted by brilliant executives. What's wrong with that? That's part of the team. That's part of the coach. Everybody, you say he ain't got no choice in who's drafted?

it. Come on. Do you think Harbaugh has a say in who gets drafted? Why wouldn't he? He got to coach it if that's not the talent I think I need that I can build and make into what I want. Why would I be like, oh, it's cool, go ahead, draft me. Would I be like, hey, draft, give me you in the third round. Like, we're going to make you into whatever it is. Hurtful.

All right, here we go. Offensive rookie of the year. I believe John Gruden has a style and Josh Jacobs, a last. loud Gruden ball to flourish. He likes powerful running backs because he was a rare Alabama running back that came into this league without 5,000 carries. He was fresh. He was energy.

He elevated Derek Carr. Josh Jacobs, my rookie offensive, my rookie of the year, Harris on or Harris off? Harris on. I totally agree with you right there. Just looking at what his body of work this year. I mean, I don't see anyone else that, in my opinion, comes. comes close to that, that is a rookie. So, Harris-on.

Yeah. You know, the thing about John Gruden, we think of him as this quarterback guru, but the history shows what he does develop are really good running games, power running games, and Jacobs, fresh out of Alabama, without all those carries, to me was the shock of the first round. Finally, defensive player of the year, Harrison, Harris-off, with Duck Hodges, they're still a playoff potential team. J. Watt, I think for the Pittsburgh Steelers, in that excellent linebacking core, is a dominant

player and a game changer. Harris-on, Harris-off, defensive player of the year. I want to say Harris-on, but I can't. Harris-off. I have to give it to Gilmore. He is shutting down whole players, whole sides of fields. Stefan Gilmore Patriots. Yes, no question. He's taking players that are number one receivers and just totally shutting them down. And when you have a guy that can cover a receiver like that, that gives you that extra time you need to get to the quarterback. That gives you that extra time you need to whatever it do on the front seven. You know what I'm saying? So with his play and the numbers he's putting up as far as interceptions, you know, defending, people's not even throwing his way.

Come on. All right. Harris on, Harris, I appreciate you playing with us. Love the picture of Harris off. Look very intimidating. Harrison, you're a businessman. Man, Harris off. I'm not doing business.

I'm not doing a look. Yeah, it was a frightening look. Good seeing you, James Harrison. Coming up next, Dynasties in College and Pro, Belichick and Sabin, they're both ending. Why? We'll talk about that coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern,

9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the Internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, Nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answers. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsLice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam, Ms. Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the player. without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves,

I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night-night base. is our offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two great bowl games are coming your way on Foxx. and FS1. First on December 27th. It's the San Diego County Credit Union Holiday Bowl as number 16 Iowa battles number 22 USC on FS1. Then on December 30th, Cal faces off with Illinois in the Red Box Bowl on Fox. Both games also available on the Fox Sports app. By the way, I have my college football picks. I have USC Iowa is one of my picks, Clemson, Ohio State. And then I'm picking LSU, Oklahoma. And our marquee three picks tomorrow. I told you I made my largest bet in the history of my life on Clemson, Ohio State. You'll find out. tomorrow who I bet on. Yeah.

It's a giant gift. By my standards. It's by most people's standards. Let's not get into the number figure. But you know what it is. I told you. It's the most I've ever bet on a football game of any kind. And I find the... So if you win, we all get holiday bonuses. How about that?

That's a suggestion. I wouldn't say it's a... I mean, you can certainly suggest that. Okay. All right. Here's Joy with the news. No. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So the Falcons only won one game through halfway point of the season. Yeah. But they've turned things around and won four of their last six. Yeah. Dan Quinn's future as Atlanta's head coach seemed to be in jeopardy when the team is one in seven. But Matt Ryan says the team is doing everything they can to help him out. Yeah. He has the respect to the locker room and the guys play hard for Dan.

There's no question about it. We all appreciate everything that he does for us, the style of coaching. He's got great relationships with all of the guys. in our locker room. And so we love them. And, you know, we're playing hard and doing everything we can for him. It's kind of interesting because that's basically what we've been saying is happening in Atlanta. Because it is a lost season, obviously, after that start.

But, you know, the first four game, or I'm sorry, eight games, they're obviously one in seven, 21st and points per game, 29th in rushing yards per game, tied for sixth and for most turnovers. And since the by, they're four and two. Their offense is eight in points per game, 14th in total. cards per game. Can I offer this, though? I'm not going to give football coaches credit when they say, you know, players play hard. If you don't play hard in football, you get hurt. It's like hockey.

Like, I'll give you, like, I have to see wins. Like, in basketball, I get it. 82 regular season games. You don't have to play hard every night. You don't have to play hard for every quarter. If a team's busting their butt and losing in the NBA, I'm like, they like the coach. They're playing hard in Atlanta. Yeah, but they're winning. They're four and twos and sub-bye. Okay, four and two. Who they played? San Francisco.

I mean, they just beat San Francisco. And then you can only play who's on your schedule. Like, we're not, we're not saying they're one and seven who they play. I'm not, I'm not anti-Dan Quinn. It's just they were so bad for like eight weeks. They were awful, yes. Like not competitive. It's hard for me to go, well, they played pretty well at the end.

By the way, Dallas suddenly is playing, if they win this weekend, they're playing well. It's not always how you start. Sometimes it's how you finish. It'd be nice if you started okay. Yes, instead of terrible. I agree. I'm just saying I do think it's interesting, and it's interesting that Matt Ryan is saying that. It has a little bit of a Ron Rivera feel to it where it's like the locker room is still in on this coach.

And Dan Quinn is a good coach. I think after obviously Shanahan left, there's been a gap there that they need to fill. And maybe that's just the issue. And maybe Dan Quinn is the issue. I don't know. But I just don't think that they've recovered from that Super Bowl and the loss of Shanahan. Yeah, I think those are both good points. But I don't think that Matt Ryan is done.

No, Matt's got seven, eight years left. He's fine. Matt's good. So, Odell has reportedly been vocal about his desire to leave Cleveland and has been telling other teams to come get him. Come get me. And another destination on his list was just revealed. One of the teams he has said to be interested in is the Steelers.

He reportedly told one Steelers player before their games this year that he would love to be in Pittsburgh. Browns and Steelers obviously met in week 11 and 13. Pretty much all the teams that he's been rumored to be with are contenders. Am I crazy on this? I think Russell Wilson, Big Ben, Tom Brady, would absolutely go to their GM and say, let's do it. I don't think OBJ wants to win. I've never seen him.

I think he's needy, but I've never seen him as doesn't play hard. He plays hurt. He plays hard. By the way, for all the messes in Cleveland this year. Odell's not one of them. He's not one of their pride. He's been very quiet, actually. The only time we even really had conversations about him not being quiet was the watch situation.

Yeah. He's needy. Which was a few days. Yeah, I, I'm not into needy people. He's a little needy for my taste. But I think most coaches in the NFL deal with needy all the time. So I, I wouldn't be my cup of tea, but Baker's too needy for me. I'll take needy with results.

I don't like needy. I'll take, I'll take less. I don't love needy, but we live in Hollywood. It's the, it's the. No kidding. You and I are the only stable people around. The whole city. needy except us.

I have a coffee, a glass of water. I have an emergency here. I got corn nuts. I'm good to roll. So I myself is not needy. But I do think that O'Dell is a winner. That's why he's not in New York anymore. Let me tell you something.

Good teams who need the top lifted, New England would make a call. There's no question New England's making a call. It doesn't look like he's going to be in Cleveland next year. And for me, personally, I'm happy about that because I don't know that what the situation is going to be with the head coach or the quarterback's coach or what's going on with Freddie Kitchens in that organization. And if anything is going to improve on the offensive side of the ball, I'd like to see. I would like to enjoy Odell's greatness again. Can we acknowledge this?

Sometimes a divorce is good for both people. I think Cleveland's better without Odell. They'll get a draft pick and their offensive lineman. And I think Odell's better. Some divorces, you're your friends. It didn't work anymore. I mean, I just think O'Dell leaves It's not the end for Cleveland.

Cleveland's going to get it picks. They can now have David and Joku, Jarvis Landry, two good running backs, a better offensive line, weaker schedule. I don't think it's injurious. Is that a word to Cleveland? I think it's fine. I also kind of feel like this. Hey, Gouleta, is that a word?

What did you say? Injurious. I don't think it would create chaos for Cleveland. I think it would solve a dilemma on their front. So I don't think. And it just never really felt like a fit anyway. Can we be honest about that? now? It's not a word? I don't

think I have to look that up to know. Injurious is not a word. Listen, I said about 4 million words a week. I get a mulligan. I get one mulligan the whole week. So earlier this week, LeBron James said he's not planning on taking games out this season, and if he's healthy, he'll be playing. The clippers, on the other hand, are implementing

load management for, obviously, for Kauai Leonard. And Doc Rivers said rest was part of their team philosophy while also taking a little dig at the Cross Town Rivals. It's our philosophy. I don't know what theirs are. You know, I think theirs is whatever LeBron says it is, to be honest. That makes a lot of sense to me.

But, no, I think I like what we're doing. I think it's the smart thing to do. And, you know, who knows, we'll see it to end. Not really crosstown rivals. They play in the same building, right? You know, Lakers clippers to me are not. It's like Jets' giants. Is it really a rivalry?

I don't, it's. Well, I think amongst L.A. fans, it is. I think for the rest of the country, it's not. It's kind of a hammer-nail situation. Lakers fans just don't acknowledge. Until this year. I talked to a lot of angry Lakers

fans before this season started. Why? Clippers are nothing. They'll never be anything. Laker fans get very defensive. Yes. It was, it was entertaining. Look, to me, this is all just like

NBA pettiness, which I obviously love. But this was a non-story from the beginning for me with LeBron because, I mean, what are you talking about? The first time we ever even had a major conversation about someone, sitting out without being injured was LeBron.

People were making posters and bringing them the games. I traveled across 10 mountains to get here to see LeBron James play and he's not playing. It just feels like it's not even a necessary thing for LeBron to say because it is a little bit hypocritical. I mean, obviously the Spurs and Pop were fined for this. So he kind of originated it. But it's just like we know what Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers are doing. It's actually not.

And it's like Nick Wright said, it's not really a league-wide thing. Yeah, it's just, they made it. a name for it now. So now anytime you make a name for something that everyone does, it all of a sudden becomes scary. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The heard lie news. Okay, John

found the word I was looking for. Okay, injurious, not a word. Injurious, yes, injurious. I'm, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that that's what you are going for. Does it mean the same thing as he was trying to say? Yeah, causing or likely to cause damage or harm. Injurious. Which was ingenious for you to find

because that's a lot for you to do over there beyond getting us hockey scores every few days. All right. So I'm about to say something. I'm not saying it's true, but it looks like it's true. One of the reasons we've said this about the NFL, there's week-to-week parity, but not really year-to-year parity. Like they say about kids all the time, boy, the days are long, but the years go quickly.

So in the NFL, week-to-week, you never know who's going to win, but year-to-year, you kind of know who's going to win. I think we've had, it's pretty remarkable how much we love football. We basically had a dynasty, a concurrent dynasty, in college football. Alabama for 10 years, and the New England Patriots for 10. You guys always complain about the NBA. Same teams win every year. Not really.

No, not really. Toronto won last year. That would be like Jacksonville winning a Super Bowl. They can't get to one. The reality is there's almost as much parity in the NBA as the NFL, but for some reason, maybe it's because the stars all go to the same five or six cities. It bothers us when one team dominates pro basketball. And we all know that Duke and Carolina and Kansas dominate college basketball.

basketball. But we've had two concurrent dynasties in football and everybody's okay with it. And I think they're both dying. Belichick and Sabin are on HBO this week, the two geniuses. They're both close to 70. Let's be honest, nobody at 67, 68 quite has the energy that they do at 48 or even 58. And basically, if you look at the history of dynasties in sports, they die for three or four reasons. Age, Brady's 42. Age. Belichick, Sabin, both close to 70. Or it's injuries. Julian Edelman, Gronk,

beat up, retired. Alabama's not injuries. It's the transfer portal. It's players leaving early for the NFL year after year after year. Also losing top coordinators. Belichick's lost several. Sabin's lost a half dozen and you just don't replace them with as good an executive or a coach.

Listen, I think football's had two concurrent dynasties now for a decade, and for some reason we hate basketball dynasties, really NBA dynasties. They drive us crazy, right? But we've had basically the Warriors times three in the NFL, and we basically had

Duke times five in college football. And I do think they're both coming to an end, mostly two genius, defensive-minded guys for the same reasons. I think Nick has just lost. There's an emerging power, in Clemson. There's an emerging power in Kansas City and Baltimore in the NFL. And when you've got this emerging power, this rival that's younger and faster and the coaches are younger and the players

are younger and they're more dynamic. And I think it's happening and I think it's a good thing. And I think football will survive. But when I look at the Sabin HBO stuff with Belichick, there's a lot of similarities. And one 10-year run, it just doesn't feel the same. Bama doesn't have as many good players to me as Clemson. Today is signing day, early signing day. Clemson got nine five-star offensive or defensive linemen. Alabama got half that. And I look at Baltimore and Kansas City and San Francisco and New Orleans.

It's better players. It happens. It's been a good run, but I think it's ending for both. Coming up next, Jim Nagy, this is just for me. This is like a, I mean, this is like a, Snapchat if I was 14, right? Like this is the best thing ever. I get now the executive director of the senior bowl.

This is a guy that was a scout forever for top teams in the NFL. And we're going to talk about Joe Burrow, who I think's overrated, Tua who I think's underrated. Justin Herbert may be, I'm not sure where he's rated. We're going to talk about the talent in the NFL, college coming in. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. All right, staff knows what I like.

staff knows I like the minutia of football. The Senior Bowl is one of my favorite, favorite weeks of the year. Jim Nagy is now the new executive director. You were a scout for, you've got four Super Bowl rings. One of the best scouts in the game. 18 years as a scout. You help for years the Seahawks and the Patriots. Two interesting cultures.

So let's start, Jim, with that. Pete's high emotion. Pete loves young players. Bill tends to, in my opinion, like older players. little more rigidity. So I think they're kind of different cultures. Did you see any similarities between the two? None.

Absolutely. No, that was the rewarding thing of working for both franchises because you can see, you can do totally polar opposite things and get the same result. Just, you know, the mantra in New England is do your job, right? And in Seattle, it's we're all in. And they're just, like you said, Pete is what you see is what you get.

Bill is what you see is what you get. Like people always ask about both guys. what's portrayed in the media and what they put out there is who they are in the building. You know, Pete's going up and down the hallways on scooters and, you know, and you're in the New England building and it's, you know, it's crickets. I mean, it's, you could hear a pin drop in that building. So it's two completely different ways of doing things and they obviously both get results. When you, let's say, when you, it's funny, I was talking to Bill Pollian years ago.

And I said, Bill, I won't go public, but did you ever really whiffing a guy? And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, we got a guard in years ago. I knew two practices. I'm like, well, whiffed on that one, can't play. It is hard because some kids in college can dominate inferior opposition, but when you put an equal up next to them in the NFL, they're just, they don't have the soul to burl through another man. Like I've been, I've told that by players.

The NFL scares some guys. They just don't have the stomach for it. Like Ray Lewis is coming at you. I'm out. Is there a position as a scout, which you, to this day, it's the hardest position for you to figure out? I think linebacker was for a long time, and then I was lucky enough to work with two guys that won the Butkus Award.

I was with Matt Russell in New England for a long time, and then Dan Morgan in Seattle. So just sitting with those guys and watching tape with them on linebackers and trying to pick their brain really, really helped. But like you said, missing on players, I always felt like going back in the history of the time I was doing it, when you really miss on players and the team misses on a player, you're really missing more on the person than you are the player

because the tape is the tape is the easy part is watching the tape. It's figuring out the guy and what he's going to do he's got some money in his pocket and more time on his hands. That's the hard part. I think that's when you miss. Okay, let's start with Joe Burrow. Joy loves Joe Burrow. My takeaway is a year ago he completes 57% of his throws.

He is athletic, though not hyper-athletic. He's got a good arm. It's not special. It's not Mahomes. I think we're forgetting that he plays at LSU, which is essentially an NFL factory. I like Tua. I think he does remind me of Breeze, not Baker.

incredible accuracy. When I saw him play LSU on a 70% leg and he was that accurate against NFL DBs, I was like, okay, I'm in on Tua. When you look at those guys, let's just talk Burrell for a second. Should I consider as a scout, he's playing with nothing but NFL guys. Well, you know, I kind of made that point last year going through the draft process on Kyler Murray and Dwayne Haskins. Every time they took the field, they were lining up with better people and the guys they were playing against. That's not the NFL. You know, throwing in a huge windows. You've got first-round receivers running everywhere. So you could make that point with Joe. I just think Joe's unprecedented. I've been asked a bunch like, what do you make of this Joe Burrow thing?

I can't come up with anything. I mean, I've never seen anything like at this meteoric rises. He's on. In one year. In one year. When I did him over the summer, I thought third or fourth round pick went to the manning camp this summer and met him for the first time. Like you said, physical tools doesn't blow you away. He didn't stand out at the manning camp. But what did stand out was the guy. And that's what's so great about going to the manning camp, which I couldn't do when I worked in the NFL. They don't let NFL people go down there. So that's been the best perk to me of the senior role job as I get to go to the manning camp. But to see Joe like around other alphas and to see who gravitates to who is really intriguing.

And what you can't undersell with Joe Burrow is the guy. You know, he's a guy's guy's a coach's kid. You know, his dad just retired this past year from Ohio U. So he grew up around the game. You go to the game. You go to the game. I saw them play Florida in Alabama this year. and you just watch pregame, like, who responds to this guy is that, you know, black guys, white guys, small guys, big guys, you know, everyone gravitates to this guy.

And you see him throw a touchdown and come off the field and see how guys, people go out of their way to get to this guy. That's fascinating. And it doesn't, you know, that's the stuff scouts look for when they go to games. And a lot of people poo-poo that stuff, but it's real. I mean, that stuff matters. And those guys play for Joe Burrow. So, yeah, you can look at the physical stuff and you can pick that apart. Is it overwhelming?

No, it's not. But the football player and the guy is overwhelmed. All right, Tua, injury, would it make you not draft him? I'd have to have my doctor's ask that. But, no, that's a tough one. It's going to make a team roll the dice a little bit. You know, that's going to be the intriguing thing is the decision Tua makes. I think he can go and I think he's got four ways to go.

He can just come out and force a team to roll the dice on a hip. If he's good enough by July, he could come out supplemental and have a workout and prove to teams, yeah, my hip's good. Or he could come back to school, sit it out and go through the pre-draft process. So he's got a lot of different things to look at with the injury. But I'm with you. I've always been a fan of two. I saw them play five times this year. When he was being recruited by Alabama and I was working for Seattle,

everyone in the building said he's just like your guy. He's just like your guy, meaning Russell Wilson. And there's a lot of similarities. There are. You know, height-wise, they're similar. Russell's a better athlete, I think. Russell is a better athlete, but they're both springy. They're both bouncy guys.

And the difference is, though, like if you're a Tua fan, he throws with better anticipation than Russell does. and he sees the field a little better than Russell Lowe's. But they're both accurate. And again, I love Russell. I love Russell. I'm not putting Russell down. But those are two as anticipation,

field vision, accuracy are off the charts. All right, Jim Nagy, executive director, senior bowl. I'm so into this stuff. I'm going to go home and listen to this again. I'm just so fascinated. Give me your best right and why you found a guy, small school.

Guys like me barely know anything about him, and you knew it. And where were you when you found him and tell me the story? Oh, that's so self-servative. I don't do it. I do it for three hours a day. Well, that's the thing. Where we're at with the NFL nowadays, by the time you draft a player, there's been seven sets of eyes on the guy.

So it's gone or the days of you can just claim that you found this guy. There's been a bunch of guys. But really, the ones that scouts can hang their hats on, is the undrafted free agents. The guys that don't go to All-Star games, the guys that don't go to the Combine. And just going way back in time, I know you're a Pat's guy. Remember Mike Wright, a defensive lineman? Yes. He was played there for eight years.

He went to Cincinnati, was a backup level player, even in college, till the very end. And I was at Cincinnati this one day. And for the Patriots, you had to look at every single senior. So some teams go in and they only have, you know, a handful of guys earmark to look at. And I had the clicker in my hand that day. So I was rewining and rewind, and other scouts were like, who are you looking at? And I'm like, I got all these guys to look at. And Mike Wright was really the guy I was rewined and look at.

But he was a 300-pound guy that vertical jumped 38 inches. Whoa, my Lord. And he played eight years. So he was a good role player for a long time. Any stars, any perimeter dudes? Stars. Edelman, you know, Edelman was a guy. That was my last year in New England.

So to see Julian play quarterback, he knew he wasn't going to be a quarterback. Now it would be interesting if Julian came out as a quarterback. Now that the leagues opened up a little bit more to shorter guys. So you found him? No, I'm not going to say I found Julian. But you pushed for him. Yeah, yeah. I pushed for Julian.

He was, you know, he was a phenomenal athlete. when you met with the coaching staff, the one thing they said, most competitive guy they've ever coached. So to me, if we're going to take a shot on a guy late, let's take a shot out of a competitor. You know, a Gemini I.E is joining us,

executive director of the Senior Bowl. He's got four Super Bowl rings. You started as a PR intern for the Packers. When, you know, some teams, the Saints draft extraordinarily well. I've been critical of the Patriots drafting. Bill does what he wants to do. Are there people, though, in this league that have what you would call an eye.

Mickey Loomis for the Saints appears to have an eye. What is it? I think there is. I think Jeff Ireland does a great job. He's done a great job. He got booted out in Miami and nobody wants to hear this because he's had some controversy.

He's been great in New Orleans. He's been great. I think guys do have a knack for it. And I think the really good teams, they exhaust the process. You know, our mantra in Seattle was, we never have all the answers. I mean, we will push all the way up,

we would push all the way up till draft day trying to figure a guy out. Wow. Whereas some teams, they move on to the next year's draft. They have scouts working on next year's draft before this draft is even here. You know, the teams that really exhaust the process, try to get to know these guys. When you spend the spring, rather than just go to Pro Day and get a 40 time and leave, when you stick around afterwards and take a guy to lunch or take a guy to dinner and really spend time, the teams that draft well really get to know the person going back to when you get them wrong,

you get the person wrong. Did you like Lamar, by the way, 30 seconds. Did you like him? Amar? Yeah. I didn't do it. I didn't go into Louisville, but what he's doing right now is unbelievable, but I will say this, what Baltimore is doing around him, really buying in organizationally surround him and in like being on the same page with that vision. That doesn't happen all the time. There's a lot of draft rooms where you have a plan for a player and then you draft him and then moving forward, it all goes kaput and the player doesn't

work out. So kudos to the Ravens for sticking to the plan. Jim Nagy, great meeting you, Hour 3 next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays and noon Eastern, 9. NAM Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsClyce brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hard way. with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so

many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and loss. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? this is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, the Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker

walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball like,

after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stop using your girlfriend shampoo, dub men plus care, wide range of products,

available at Walmart. Bucky Brooks played in the NFL, former NFL Scout, Panthers, and Seahawks. I love that. We're talking Joe Burrell. We'll get to that in a second. By the way, you have incredible contacts in the NFL. from playing in the league, from scouting in the league.

And off the air, I know where your contacts are on the air. When he says stuff, he knows stuff. I will say this. Joy makes the argument. And I've said this when I first brought this show over from the other place, you know, we would tell staff, 15 months, don't even look at the ratings. We're trying to create staffing. We're not going to be right for about 15 to 18 months.

Don't look at the ratings. So the idea that a coach, Freddie Kitchens, could get a job, and then in 12 months, didn't work your out. Do you believe, I think he's dead coach watching, walking with the helmet stuff has heard him, the T-shirt stuff. Last week, the argument in the sideline, I think there's an easy out for John Dorsey, but do you think they'll can him?

No, I think they should stick with him. I think the hardest thing that Freddie Kitchens has had to do in maybe 16 months, He went from being a running back coach to an offensive coordinator to a head coach. Each of those job descriptions are different. The responsibilities thrown at you are different, and it takes you a while to adjust. What Freddie Kitchens took on this year, I don't know if he did it by design being the head coach and the offensive coordinator play caller, but it's tough. It's something that really an experience coach has to be able to do because when you're the head coach,

you're responsible for the entire team. You create the vision. you're the problem solver. You coordinate and communicate with the coordinators who then carry the messages to the team. And you handle the big issues that take place in the locker room. When you're the coordinator, you do all that plus set a game plan, figure out what we're doing on third long, what's I go to two point play, what do we want to do in two minute.

That's a lot thrown on an inexperienced coach. And then with the big personalities that Cleveland took on, Jarvis Landry, O'Dell Beckham, Jr., Baker, Mayfield, that was a lot for him to kind of manage. I think year two, he'll be much better because he'll take all the things that he learned this year and he'll trim the fat. He'll go immediately in minicamp and OTAs and kind of set a clear vision for how this team is going to act, how they're going to play.

He will spend more time working with Baker Mayfield to make sure that he gets them right. And I think in year two, we'll see a better product from the Cleveland Browns if Freddy Kitchens is the coach. By the way, they face far fewer elite defensive coaches. Next year they get a lot of offensive coaches. They get the NFC East. They could get Schumer.

They could get Peterson. They could get Garrett again if they win a playoff game. They face the AFC South. They are going to get Bill O'Brien. They're going to get Frank Reich. I think this is a thing. I think what Hurt Baker this year is not just Kiffins. Kiffin.

It's a new coach. They faced a first-place schedule, and it was loaded with Pete Carroll's and Belichick. and I think it was a big jump for Baker. And I'm not a big Baker defender, but the schedule next year features a lot of offensive-leaning franchises. Yeah, and also, like, I think sometimes as a young player, you can be seduced into thinking that the league is easy

when you have success right out the gate. Because he has so much success, he surpassed Peyton Manning's Ricky passing record. They won a string of games at the end of the year. You can kind of go into the off-season thinking, oh, I got this. I figured it out. I have it. think this year's struggle can make Baker a better player for the rest of his career. If he's able to go back and honestly assess, here's where I need to work on.

Here's some of the aspects of the offense that we need to expand. He and Freddie Kitchens being on the same page in terms of this is the best way for us to play together, where we get all of the pieces involved while also allowing me to play at my best. I think we can see a better year in year two, year three for Baker Mayfield. and a better coaching year from Frida Kitchens as they stay together and grow. And you think they will, Bucky Brooks. Obviously, with the erosion of offensive line play, pocket guys, unless they're really special, feel like they're dying a little bit.

Trevor Lawrence is a pocket guy, but it should be noted he's got 400 yards rushing or something like that, six, seven touchdowns rushing. Do you think Lamar this offseason will make a lot of GMs and coaches change the way they think about quarter I think he would change it. I don't think he would change it where we'll have this rush where everyone is looking for the next Lamar. But I think what Lamar will do, he would change the way that we evaluate quarterbacks. The pecking order will always be the same. It's accuracy, decision making.

Then you put athleticism and leadership in some order, leadership, athletic, where have you stack it? But I think now what you have to get scouts and evaluators to do, don't tell me what he can't do. What I want you to do is give me a vision for how this guy can play and succeed in the league. If you look at Lamar Jackson, we didn't think that Baltimore would completely revamp their offense. They would do the things that they're doing now to enable him to play the way that he's playing. But by making those changes, they now have an MVP at quarterback. And I think a lot of what we do with quarterbacks is not just evaluating where they are as college players, but it's, okay, here's what they do really well.

What can we do to mimic the success that they're having in college while helping them grow into being a franchise quarterback as a pro in four or five years? Yeah. By the way, the Burrow, two, a thing, I think two is better than Burrow. I think we do this all the time where I think Justin Herbert, I'll say it now, has more natural talent than Joe Burrow. I think he's, I think Herbert's got a great arm. But he was in a system, Mario Cristobal in Oregon.

They like to run the ball, big power offensive line, didn't have a backup ready to go. They didn't want to put him in harm's way. And then at the end of the year, a little bit, Oregon's a little more aggressive, a little more downfield. Herbert runs a little more against Utah. We talked about this yesterday with Jeff Schwartz. If I said to you, Herbert, Borough, Tua, how would you rank him? I'll rank him toa, borough, than Herbert. To me, Tua is special.

Tua is a left-handed version of Russell Wilson. I'm slightly biased because I've known him and watched him since high school. I personally coached him at Elite 11 events. He was on my team when we run a 7-0-7 thing. And what Tua does, everyone would talk about on the field, the armed talent, his ability to make plays. He is an outstanding leader and connector. And in this league, it is about connecting with your team. teammates and getting everyone to

pour the boat in the right direction. Tua does that. I think Joe Burrow also does it. I think the difference between Tua and Burrow, Tua is more talented. Yes. Tua is a more talented player. Better arm. It comes out

like a rocket. I think the accuracy. I think Tua is a more accurate player. Totally agree. That said, I like Joe Burrow a lot. I think if you dig in his background, there's a lot to like about him. Look, all State basketball player, Mr. Ohio and football. He is a guy that has had to kind of scratch and claw his way up depth charts, first

at Ohio State, then he goes to LSU, and he has success. I think the one thing that I would say that I would pause, the significant jump from his junior year to his senior year at LSU, completion rate 57% to almost 80, 77% as a senior. What does that tell you? three to one, like a 300% increase in touchdowns. Joe Brady comes over from the New Orleans Saints. He's not the offensive coordinator. He's the passing game coordinator.

They work together to put together an offense where it works for Joe Burrow and the talent around him. So I just need to see if he can do this without the kickstand, without Joe Brady's offense. Can he do this as a transcendent player? Because when we're talking about someone being number, one overall. Think about the number one quarterbacks.

You got to be great at something. You got to be great. And look, he's a terrific player. But when we think about number ones, Cam Newton was the number one, transcendent athlete and player. Andrew Luckish. They talk about a generational talent. Like

Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Joe Burrow, where would we put him in? We can put him somewhere in there. But the difference between Baker and Jared Goff and Burrow, they need a little assistant. Jerry has to play a I watched Kyler Murray last weekend.

He's a number one pick. Yes. Like his feet are, I mean, it's absurd. Right. And so, like, people need to understand the standard for, when we talk about top five and number one overall, you're talking about a generational talent, someone who can be a perennial pro bowl player, someone who you can see, man, in 15 years when he finishes, he's going to be a gold jacket guy.

Like, keep your standard to that. Not, hey, he's the best quarterback. in this draft and you should always take the quarterback. No, when you grade him, grade him on that ideal vision of when he plays. And at the end of his career, we want to talk about Joe Burrow being a Hall of Famer. If he doesn't grade out like that, don't give him a grade that is worthy being number one. He still can go there, but don't grade him in that fast. You see, for the record, we've talked about this about a year ago, blame who you want in New England.

Brady doesn't have a ton to work with that's obvious. Is he declining? Oh, he's definitely declined. Where do you see it? Hips, Twitchy. I just think he has missed more layups than he normally misses. And when you get older, 42 years old, you don't like being hit. The pressure has affected Brady more than it ever had. That I've noticed.

He used to welcome the opportunity. You bliss me, I'm going to make you pay. If you bring heat, if you let me see what you're doing, I'm going to figure out. This year more than any other year that we can remember, he hasn't been able to do it. Yes, the talent around him is not. what it's been, but he's also not the same player that he's been. And so the great thing about the Patriots and Bill Belichick, he would take his ego out of it. And they will play a different way, starting this week.

You will begin to see how the New England Patriots see their team and how they're going to play in the playoffs. In my mind, you'll see a team that defense, special team, selective playmaking on offense. We've seen the last few weeks, gadget plays, trick plays, half back pass. things to create explosive plays. They have to do that to get those big plays. That's how they play. They still can win the entire thing with Brady not being at his best.

Just the margin for error is smaller than we've seen in the past. Bucke Brooks, good seeing you. Thanks for having. Don't stress out this holiday. Casper.com code gifts. 25% off gift orders over $100. Offer expires Christmas Eve 1224. Joy with the news.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd. line news. This story has me stressed out. Why? So the Celtics and LeBron faced off in plenty of playoff battles during his first stint with the Cavs and with the heat.

Yeah. Kevin Garnett was on Bill Simmons podcast recently and spoke about how his Celtics team was never intimidated by the king. You feel like you can break LeBron at this point? We broke LeBron. In game five. So get your a bit out of here with that, all right? Do you understand how you got the Cleveland, how you got the Miami bill?

That's true. You broke them into that same. I said, stop bringing that up. Fair enough. So they was talking shit to him, okay? The media. And the league knew that they had an agenda in which we wasn't part of the agenda. You understand?

Right. And that's how they end up winning that series. Yeah, I said it. The Seas, we didn't give a fuck about LeBron. We didn't feel LeBron and we didn't think that he can beat all five of us. What was that? Okay. All right.

So here's the thing. Respectfully, no. The Celtics did not break LeBron. what in fact broke LeBron was Cleveland. Because the last year that he was in Cleveland before he went to Miami, he was playing alongside J.J. Hickson, Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Shaq, and Antoine Jameson started in place of Hickson in the playoffs while Garnett was running with Pierce and Ray Allen and Rondo in Boston.

So it wasn't the Celtics that made LeBron go to. Miami, although, you know, they were playing obviously great basketball. It was the fact that Cleveland had no one there with him. And yes, he's LeBron. He's the chosen one. He's the superstar of the NBA. He's going to need to play alongside some other good players. And I would

like to remind everyone again that you know, the heat, they did take less money, the heatles, each of them, LeBron, Bosch, and Waite all took less money to team up together to form what was really technically the second big three because we all referred to the Celtics,

Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett as the original big three. It just wasn't in the flashiest city in the world. And they only won one title. They were the other for years. They won one title. Yeah, that was the other note that I wanted to mention. Boston won one title. Since 2010, this brokenness of LeBron James,

he went to eight straight finals, won three titles, three finals, and won the NBA MVP twice. Yeah. And he also won the MVP twice before that happened as well. Also, game six in your building for life. I just don't like this idea that the Celtics are responsible for what happened in Miami. And also there's an underlying level of bitterness because Ray Allen did come to Miami and hit that shot of all shots. Boston loves Boston.

Boston people love Boston. Boston teams and players love Boston. It's a very regional brand. Boston hasn't been mostly relevant in championship circles for most of the last 25 years. That 2008 team was great and very memorable. Fun. We love talking about it. Fun. But let's just be serious.

They didn't do much. They won one title. They won one title in those years. And the heat went to four straight finals and won two titles. And one of them was with Ray Allen. And again, Game 6 in your building for life. So the Ravens lead the league in wins. And now they lead the league in pro bowlers.

Baltimore had 12 players named to the AFC team this year, which ties an NFL record, which was set by the 73 Dolphins. Bills had won. How about that? Playoff team with one. Pretty good. The Saints had seven. Yeah, that is good.

Kansas City 6. I think you made a good argument for McDermott earlier. I mean, I still think, I think it depends on if the Steelers made the playoffs. But to me, Mike Tomlin is right now. But I do think that it should be a team that made it to the playoffs. And McDermott is definitely. They don't have a single offensive or special teams pro bowler. And they're going to make the playoffs in what is now an offensive league.

That's pretty damn good coaching. And I believe they still. still have a chance to win the division as well. So the Saints were second with seven pro bowlers and the chiefs at six, Steelers and Eagles both tied at five. And Lamar Jackson obviously had the most votes, the pro bowl votes for the year. So finally, the Lions announced yesterday that both head coach Matt Patricia and GM,

Bob Quinn, will be staying with the team in 2020. It will be Patricia's third year as coach and Quinn's fifth as GM owner, Martha Ford, released an open letter to Lions fans about the decision, which read in part, you deserve a winning team that you are, excited to cheer for and proud to represent. We also believe that the most successful teams in our league have a long-term plan, stability and leadership, and exhibit patience to follow their plans at that end. We are committed to year three of Coach Patricia's plan.

To be clear, our expectation is for the Lions to be a playoff contender in 2020. Cleveland and Detroit are just beaten franchises. Cleveland and Detroit. Chicago's got a bunch of good players won a division a year ago. I just look at the Browns and the Lions. They're not even Cincinnati, I'd say it's three teams. Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Detroit.

Who do you feel the most optimistic about next year? Because honestly, it's kind of the main goals for me. I'd probably say Cleveland if, no, I don't feel optimistic about it. I think Cleveland's going to be... If you had to choose. I think Cleveland will win the most games next

year of Cleveland, Cincinnati in Detroit. Cleveland will win about seven to eight games next year. And I do think Baker will be better, but the problem is, Pittsburgh gets Big Ben back, so you're not going to go 2-0 against the Steelers. Yeah, the division is rough.

Yeah, so you're going to split. Not that the line's division is any easier. I just think I do like that they are committing to three years for the coach. I don't think that you can get anything done in a year. So even if, you know, either one of us think that Freddie Kitchens is necessarily the right guy for the job,

he does deserve another year. Otherwise, what was the point of hiring him? Listen, I think you should give coaches more than one year, but I cannot believe Cleveland's going to retain Freddie Kitchens. after the helmet thing and the T-shirt thing and the sideline thing? They're a very undisciplined team, yes. It's giving them an out.

Like, if you're, I think, I think Dorsey knows his guy's over his head. He just got three outs. The helmet, the T-shirt, Jarvis Landry calling him out. The team looks like it's un- It's unraveling. I just, to me, I think that Mike McCarthy would do an incredible job there in Cleveland if he was given the franchise to run. Here's the problem if you're John Dorsey.

If you give Freddie Kitchens another year and Mike McCarthy gets hired. I mean, again, how many... Well, Mike McCarthy may not want that job. He's going to have options. Not as many as people think. His reputations, it's a lot of Aaron Rogers carried you. That's a lot of the reputation.

I know, but that's just what it is among my guys. He's not a hot property. He interviewed twice last year, people were like, not even interested. Like, not even... That's why, by the way, he's changing his persona doing a lot of this. if you notice he's in the Peter King columns, he's now trying to change the persona that he's not just sort of an old school guy that can't.

I don't know. His resume is pretty impressive. Aaron Rogers is there or not. I know, but I'm just telling you, his reputation in the league is like the game's passed him by. He's trying to change that narrative. That's why he's releasing all these stories about how he's got into analytics.

I think for Cleveland to be great, but I think the three or four elite jobs, they wouldn't consider him. That's what I'm hearing. But I think for Cleveland, by the way. I think it would be a great fit in Cleveland. Yes. I agree with that.

Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Line News. By the way, for those that wonder, like Tom Brady restructure his deal this year, he can't be franchised. So he's a free agent at the end.

I'm reading this this morning. So Tom Brady didn't make the Pro Bowl, which I don't think Tom Brady cares about. What I think Tom Brady cares about is no offensive players in the Patriots made the Pro Bowl. Tom, when asked about about a year ago about the competitive advantage,

he was on Jimmy Kimmel and he said, listen, winning's a priority, my wife makes a lot of money, you can only spend so much, the more I make, the less for other guys. There's a competitive advantage standpoint. I like a lot of good players around me. I still think that matters to him. But here's the thing.

When you watch Drew Breeze on Monday night, Drew Breeze and Brady both take pay cuts. But Drew Breeze, looks around and they went and got him tight end Jared Cook. And Drew Breeze looks around and they spent a fortune on his offensive line. And Drew Breeze looks around and he's got

an offensive-minded coach that drafts good running backs. They keep giving when you're taking a pay cut. What am I getting for the pay cut? Because Tom and Drew don't have to. Drew's taking a pay cut and looking around and they aggressively go get Jared

Cook. Mike Thomas is now the second high paid wide receiver. The offensive line is highly compensated. Brady's asked to take a pay cut, looks around, and doesn't have a pro bowler next to him. And it's an organization that hasn't drafted a skill player pro bowler since Gronk. So that's why Brady restructured his deal. He's got leverage.

They don't have a succession plan. I understand Brady's bitterness here, why he's been cranky all year. He doesn't have any help. I'll take a pay cut in life if you make my job easier. Brady now is second in the NFL and pass attempts. They're asking more with a Worse O line. So I think that's where rubber meets the road here. I think that's the problem with Brady.

I'm not going to let you franchise me. I want to be in on the game plan and I'll take a pay cut, but I'm not taking $24 million. I want $30 and you got to get me players. That's why I said the Amari Cooper situation to me, if Dallas hesitates, go get Amari Cooper. I think Amari Cooper in New England changes everything Edelman now is a two. Nikiel Harries of three.

Mohamed Sunuz of four. That's a real lineup. And then you go address the tight end in the draft. But I get Brady's bitterness. I'll take the pay cut, but Breeze takes a pay cut, but looks around, gets nothing but help. They're asking him to throw less. Coming up next, cowboy coaches.

Seven, eight really good choices. Our thoughts on who would be the best choice that might surprise you. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Discover.com slash cashback match. Right now they're matching. All the cashback you earn at the end of your first year automatically with no limit with the Discover card. Great to have you in today. Speak for yourself as after us. I don't think Sunday when the Eagles host the Cowboys, it's going to be a defining game for Carson Went. nor do I think it's a defining game for Jason Garrett.

But if Went stinks, he's not going to get fired. If Jason Garrett and the Cowboys stink, I think Jason Garrett's probably going to get fired at the end of the season, though I think Jerry Jones has a great deal of affection for him. And so today and best for last, there are nine candidates that at some time or another have been connected to Dallas, and I think they're the most legitimate nine candidates.

So we're going to do a little bit of a well- review on rating stars out of five stars, where do the candidates rank in terms of being the next cowboy coach? Okay. Let's start with Jason Garrett. Jason Garrett's two and a half stars. Here's the upside. He's won three division titles in nine years.

We know he's competent. The downside being, and this is why, to me, he's only two and a half. At this point, is his message white noise? I think it is and he's never shown an ability against the elite coaches in playoff appearances to match it. Five playoff games,

two wins. To me he's only a two and a half star candidate. White noise at this point, the message, people have heard it so much, they're not urgently driven to it. Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh, I'm going to give him three and a half stars.

Control. is important for Harbaugh. He struggled his first time in the NFL, not having total personnel control. Now, he was 44-19-1 as a head coach. He got to three NFC championships and a Super Bowl, but I do think there's a personality clash. As he's aged, many think he's more into control now than he's ever been,

and Jerry has, as we know, total control. So he's only a three-and-a-half-star candidate. Josh McDaniels. Three stars. Again, he's worked in New England and nowhere else. I do think he is what most teams are looking for, and Brady would consider a cowboy move. I believe this.

If New England low balls him, he's only 43 years old. I worry about his ability to flourish outside of the NFL's reigning dynasty. Remember, in Denver, he was only 11 and 17, and he wasn't very good with personnel either. Do the stars, John? up if Brady goes with him? No, but he'll win more.

Right. Urban Meyer. Organizationalally, he's the best candidate of the nine. He's a maven organizationally. I would give him four stars. The knock on him is that he's never been an NFL coach nor shown a great deal of interest. He's only 55. I do think for the first three years, because of his college football connection in acumen, like Pete Carroll initially to the

Seahawks, Dallas would have great drafting success the first three years with Urban. His influence would be substantial. But I take a star off because he's never had shown keen interest in professional football. Matt Ruley. Three and a half stars. Ruhl's done a great job in Baylor. Turned it around overnight. Offensive guy was a like a position coach in the NFL.

So he's got a little NFL moxie there I like. The downside is the Big 12 is not. the NFL. I mean, there's no conference in college football that's less NFL than the Big 12. Matt's a young guy, a little young for my taste, 44, and I don't, I'm not quite

as in love with him as everybody else. Lincoln Riley. Now, I'd give him four stars. I don't think organizationally, he's as good as Urban Meyer, nor does he have the history in multiple organizations. But he's not, he's a guy very comfortable. I'm

told not controlling every room. And this is why in Oklahoma, Bob Stoop still has influence. He gives his coordinators a lot of power. I think that that is my favorite quality. He's bright. He's the right age. Little young, little young, but he doesn't seek power and can work well when others have it. I put him at four stars, though not organizationally as good as Urban.

Ron Rivera. Four and a half stars. Alpha male, defensive guy, two-time coach. to the year, again, not somebody who demands total control on the brand. I think there's an alpha male quality and his defensive strength is the cowboy's weakness. I think he's the best available candidate. Nick Saban. Like Urban, I put him at four. He likes control. Jerry doesn't relinquish it. And his age at 68 is a little heavy for me. It's about five, six years more than I'd be comfortable with. But I do think

Nick Saban is the candidate not being mentioned that it's remarkable that we don't consider it. I think Urban Meyer and Nick Saban are organizationally as good as any coaches in college football. Nick has a background in the NFL and for the record he did not bomb

in the NFL with a Miami Dolphins. He was 15 and 17 with below average quarterback play and they were on the defensive side, personnel side, turning it around. So that's my Welp review. Revere, top at 4.5. Yelp review. Ron Revere at number one,

four and a half. Urban, Nick and Lincoln Riley at 4. Harbaugh's insistence on control, I don't think works there. Go to MDrivefermen.com. The code is 20% off. The code is heard, and you get 20% off. We will see you tomorrow. Greg CoSell stops by.

Our college football picks too. Reggie Bush in house tomorrow as well. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories,

their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12. and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygle and Friends on the I-Heart radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano.

It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in.

He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.