The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Ryen Russillo on NBA Draft Coverage, ESPN stories, Great Podcasting, College Football | Colin Cowherd

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Colin is joined by Ryen Russilo, host of the Ryen Russilo podcast at The Ringer! They start with Colin’s take after the NBA draft: that marquee sports broadcasters do better work when they are allowed to specialize in one sport rather than trying to cover them all and diluting the on-air product (4:00). They discuss the decline in entertainment production in Hollywood (16:15) and contrast and compare what makes for successful broadcasting vs podcasting (25:15).  They talk about their own podcast consumption, and weigh in on Jake Tapper’s controversial book “Original Sin”, Tapper’s media tour and the public blowback it has received (37:00). Colin explains why the most “cringe” thing in politics is when people denounce comedians as “”unfunny” just because of their political views (41:30). They review the NBA Draft and discuss why the talent entering the draft the past two years has been far more NBA ready after a twenty year drought (54:00).They point to NIL, conference realignment  and the transfer portal being a boon for the quality of college sports (1:00:45).  Finally, they discuss former college coaches like Nick Saban and Urban Meyer transitioning into broadcasting and why they’re so good on TV (1:07:00).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

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It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was funny. You just understood. That's how personal it got.

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Well, it's nearly two months until the Cowboys play their first preseason game, but Dallas is about to heat up. That's because one of Gulf's biggest stars, Bryson DeShambo, is coming home to play the Live Golf Dallas event, June 27th to the 29th. Dallas is going to be out in force to see their hometown favorite in action, but he's going to have a stacked fight on his hands. Brooks Kepka, Phil Mickelson, Joaquin Neiman, the current frontrunner of the individual championship. So they're all be leading their teams into battle. And if it wasn't enough to get you out in the zone, here's a live show from Texas's own Whiskey Meyer Saturday, June 28. Best of all, there's loads of ways to beat the heat. It's going to be the coolest place in Dallas that weekend.

So if you want to come make some noise with Bryson to Can't Miss Experience, grab your tickets now at livegolf.com, L-I-V-Golf.com. or if you can't make it this time, you can follow every shot live and exclusively on Fox Sports. Okay, Ryan Marcella is joining me. I'm doing 30 minutes because the guy works his ass off and I'm not going to grind him.

That or he can go on local Des Moines Radio and talk about the 28th pick in the second round. Okay, so I have something I'm going to throw at you because you're a writer, and I was kind of proud of it. I never could tell if people are being... Well, actually, I can tell. Usually when people say, hey, you're a writer, it's actually an insult because there's nothing of note yet,

but at least publicly. But yeah, okay, I think we're cool enough that I'll let you make the joke, but go ahead. Okay, no, I have a lot of respect for your writing because I think it's hard. So you know how people talk about phomo? I do. And I had a teenage daughter, and I lived through it a little bit. You were jealous of her? And I came up with something.

Oh. No. So what's funny is through the years I've tried to think of something, you know, kind of an anecdote to it. And I said, I came up with I have phobia, which is fear of being in. anything. And over the last several years on effing TikTok, if you're not selling me sit-ups and mushroom coffee and vacations in, you know, Bogota, I'm like, there's this thing going on. And I, and the reason I bring this up, because I think as a broadcaster sometimes, Fox really protects me. and I'm not joking.

They, they, like, put a fortress around me. They don't let it, because they understand three hours a day is a lot of talking. And I've watched Stephen A. Smith, some of the criticism about him,

and my take, he and McAfee bust their ass. They work really hard. I mean, McAfee has no days off in the football season. And my takeaway is, is that it's impossible

to be like the perfect parent. Great in your career. four kids, every recital, every little league game. My take is most broadcasters at some point, pick one or two things. You've picked NBA among yours. And NFL is mine. I go a mile deep on it, and everything else suffers a little bit. And I don't, you and I don't, we both worked at ESPN, but I always felt the ideology of ESPN was if you make good money, we're working you. We're getting you on a lot of stuff. Fox, interestingly, is the opposite. Their thing is, we'll compensate you. We want you to be great on what you're great at,

but we're not putting you on a bunch of stuff. And so when I watch the NBA coverage, and I think, the NBA is big enough, you should just do NBA, and that is your beat. Like Winhorst is not doing baseball. Am I a relic to think if you're in a network and doing a sport and you're a marquee personality, that's it. That's what you do. No, I don't think you're a relic. I do think that there's a tendency for those of us, again, this is a very small window of the population, but that do this all the time. Because like when people ask me like, hey, what do you do?

And then they're immediately like, that's amazing. That must be awesome. And I'm like, it's great. You know, I had some goals. I've reached some. I haven't reached others. But I think you and I would admit like your worst day going into ESPN to bullshit for three hours.

Like even I is a younger guy that was mad at the world and felt slighted at every turn, I still could allow myself to go, hey, this isn't that bad. Like, this isn't that bad of a life. But what I would say is the difference is that when I go home, work doesn't stop. And for me in Connecticut, too, especially at that time, it was waking up, thinking about what I was going to say, prepping to say what I was going to say, say what I was going to say for three hours, four o'clock, run home, gym, food, and then watch games and think about what I was going to say for the six hours I was watching games on top of the 20 for football. And look, I've probably, because of my background, felt like I had to prove myself all the time.

So I almost felt like you owed the audience, right? You owed the audience to be into it. So as you say, like, is it to be a relic to suggest that you should really only follow one thing? Well, if you're a win horse and that's your beat, I don't expect winhorse to break down the college football rankings on a Tuesday night. But if you're doing what you and I were doing in some forms, like you're still doing exactly. what you're doing. I'm doing less, but as much as I'm an NBA guy, I'm probably living in Florida and not Manhattan Beach if I'm not doing any NFL. Like, you have to figure out a way to do NFL. And I love college football. I like it more than the NFL, so I still want to watch college

football on Saturdays. I've definitely, as I've gotten older, been like, can I, is there any way? I can, like, dial back some of this. I mean, baseball is a sport I love, grew up with. It was my first job. I don't have time for it. When all this basketball stuff is over next week, I'm not just going to be like, okay, it's baseball season and I'm going to sit at home. Let me get out of the house. I'm going to travel. I'm going to do some things. So I don't know if you're saying this because it's the right approach to prevent ourselves

or if it's a little, if you'll allow me, like, is it at all self-serving what you're saying at this point in your life? No, I think what I'm saying, I misstated it. I think you're from if you're on a marquee television network broadcast, I'm a generalist. So nobody considers me an expert. right? Like, I'm not on the NBA draft or the NFL draft or the postseason baseball or the Indy 500 crew or the World Cup. I'm a generalist. I'm not on a network Tiffany Markey event. But as I watch the criticism for broadcasters that make mistakes on these events, my take is

once you pay $11 billion for events as a network, like, I don't want to see Joe Buck and Aikman. That's what they do. They go a mile deep. they should have an off season and I don't want to dilute them. Like that's what I think of them as. They're the NFL guys. Yeah. And look, they don't want to be diluted.

I always joked once I'd been in the business enough that I was like, I want to come back as a former college football quarterback. And I want to see you at the end of August and then maybe I pop up on the draft and then I'll see you. Like, that's the gig. That's the ultimate gig. But there is something that happens to all of us. I remember I was trying to fight my way through Boston.

I go, why does this guy get a radio show? And then he's on this TV show. every single night. And then he's also doing preimposed this. Like, why can't you just have one job? And for whatever it is, our industry, I don't know. This has changed a lot. It's like we still need all the stuff. And I know ESPN's taking a ton of shit because of their draft coverage. I used to be on the radio coverage. You know, I was never going to be on TV there. So the fact that I was never at that desk, I couldn't even, it wasn't like, sure, I would have loved to have been able to do it. I was never going to be able to do it. I was never going to be invited to that. So my criticism is not based on like any

jealousy. I usually like to think I'm pretty aware about stuff. But, you know, whether it's, you know, I don't really feel like talking about Stephen A all that much and, you know, hell, my contract's up here too. So like, what am I going to start doing ripping everybody everywhere, right? That wouldn't make a ton of sense. I think I would ask anyone this. It's like the draft itself is a huge commitment to be prepared for that. And it, right? Oh my God. And so I used to drive myself crazy just having to do the radio thing and then I would host a combine for television. I did that for like five years. And I love the draft. It's my favorite sporting event of the entire year. But what I'd ask certain people is, do you just want to be on the marquee event without any

concern for how prepared you are for how much goes into this? And that's where I think it's either somebody who's working too much. You could say, this person's spread really thin. But, you know, I just feel like it happens a lot in our industry. It's like, do you, Do you want the title or do you want the job? And I think a lot of guys love the title. And if people are going to let you do whatever you want to do, then what are you supposed to say no? But I look at some of the thoughts around like,

oh, you know, this person's a huge star. So we'd like to get him involved here. I like to get him involved there. It's like my first thought is if I were offered something, it's like, am I even ready to be on this broadcast? And if I wasn't, I'd be ashamed to be there. I was on the draft. NFL draft for two years on radio.

And I, and again, I'm pretty good talker. I didn't feel, I just didn't feel, I just, I kind of was like, oh, no, no, no, I shouldn't be stealing somebody's gig. I'm not going a mile deep. I mean, I read everything. I made calls, but I'm thinking, I'm not, this is not me. This is not what I am. I'm not good enough on this to do this.

And I'm not knocking anybody who, like, there are certain people that they are so good on stuff. They should do it for the rest of their life. But it's interesting, as I've watched some of the criticism of people. And a lot of it's been Stephen A. And my takeaway is, man, it's, I think in these marquee events, I think networks have to step in and just say, you've got to have specialists. It's almost like in baseball. There's literally the bullpen. There are set up men, closers, and middle relievers.

And I think if I ran it, like at the volume, like I have Daniel Cormier for one thing. I don't bleed my guys over at all. I want you to be a middle-coftus golf and lives for it. But it's like at the volume, and I have much less of a budget, my whole thing is I'll be a generalist. Nick Wright's a generalist. Everybody else is a specialist. And I like it.

When I go to a guy, I know exactly what he's going to talk about. Yeah, but here's, and this is not a disagreement. this is about the programming part of this and the realization that I had you know the epiphany years ago that I realized like ultimately I think there are certain people that are stars and not stars because the audience as much as they complain about it it's a lot like a movie like if you suggest a movie to somebody else the first question they'll probably ask is who's in the movie and if you're like oh it's a bunch of underground guys you know you're second city you won't you won't know a single guy. The other person is more likely to be like, well, I'm not, I'm probably not going to watch that,

unless there's some art house goon, right? So when I think about how some of this stuff is staffed, when you are a star in our business, wherever you are, ESPN Fox, the idea is like, let's get those people on. Like, look, Mike and Mike, along with you and all those years, monster radio shows, monstrous successes. I think I remember, you know, Mike and Mike finding new ways to get the Mike and Mike part of it on some more of the NFL coverage. They had their own NFL show. So you can be saying, hey, this is spreading our guys a little thin because, you know,

it's a brutal life in general to work a morning show. But at the same time, it's like, hey, we're launching this new show. Well, who's on it? Oh, these really good young guys, these awesome researchers, you've never heard of one of them. Well, you're not, you're not introducing that up front. Advertisers aren't excited. Whereas you go, hey, we got Mike and Mike for 30 minutes, the Mike and Mike football show that were playing in the afternoons once a week, turnkey. Advertisers were already excited about that. Like, wasn't there even a time where it was thought that you could be on college game day?

And you probably would have done it. And it actually would have made sense because it probably would have brought a different level of juice to the show, that not to say that that show was ever really in trouble because it's a great show. It's been a great franchise for a really a long time. You would have been prepped up on it because I know how much you love college ball, but that's probably spreading you a little thin, especially with the travel, but there's a point in time where I'm sure you would have said yes, and it would have brought something different to that show. Yeah, no, I, listen, I, McAfee bust his ass. He's got my respect, and so does Stephen A. This is not criticism of them. I mean, McAfee could fall to bed and be interesting

with wrestling. The guy's like an encyclopedia. He's just unbelievable. I, Years ago, Nick Kahn asked me about him, and I'm like, how come he's not on the payroll? He's like, the best wrestling guy out there. They didn't know if Roman Raines was the guy. I'm like, I'd make McAfee or heavyweight champ, you know, put him on something and add 40 pounds. That's who I'd watch. No, it's just interesting.

So the other night, I will. Nick, he's busy. So the other night, I had dinner. It was one of these, I don't do this. This is not my scene, but it was the San Vicente Bungalow is the one in Santa Monica, so it's overlooked in Santa Monica. Very nice. And so I had it with an executive with a streaming service, and it was just kind of a,

you know, just a nice guy that a buddy wanted me to meet. We had a great, great dinner. And we were talking, and this guy said, he goes, people have no idea. Like, Sunset Boulevard is dead. Like, it's been dead for two years. And I don't think, and this person was talking about, When he does Zooms at this big company he's at, he goes, I get budgets. Should we do it?

Should we do it in Vancouver? Georgia, Louisiana, Los Angeles, Singapore. He's like Los Angeles is 30 to 40% more expensive than flying everybody to Melbourne to do the show or Dublin. And I don't think people know this outside of Los Angeles. But, you know, everybody's heard of Sunset Strip. And when I just moved to Chicago, and what was interesting is about two weeks, two weeks, three weeks before I left, I met somebody on sunset at night. Ryan, there was nobody there on a Thursday night. Like there was no juice, stuff boarded up.

And I wonder your thoughts, because you're in this business. You're writing and meeting with people. Does anything get made anymore? How much stuff is being made? I'm not the right guy to ask because I'm, I can answer. it to some degree because of where I'm at now. I do have some really good things that are going on, but every time you get a yes, all you're waiting for is the more significant yes. So I've had a few yeses where it's like, this is a big deal until you have to get the next yes. And so,

you know, I have friends that are in the industry that are like, it's really hard to get stuff made. I also think that we're comparing what's happening now, which is basically a pullback from where it felt like everything was getting made because you had so many. I mean, think about it. Traditional television, traditional cable to now streaming networks, doing whatever they can to get into the content game and try to outflank each other. So whether it was executives at different studios getting promoted and just be like, we're going to bring you in and we're going to do this.

And then just people getting shows greenlit or at least they were getting the pilots. But I don't know how many people were selling things that weren't written ahead of time. But it is a very challenging time because of something that, Again, I'm not really allowed to get all that into it. But, you know, at one point, there's a thing that I was working on. And I was really flattered by how many people wanted to work on this one project. And I asked one of my friends, I was like, man, you know, this is really, I'm kind of in shock. And he was like, yeah, it's also like a good job.

So cool, cool job on your laptop. But it's also like a very good job and people want. Yes. You know, again, this is sort of a weird thing for me because it makes it sound like I'm trying to make something sound a lot cooler than it is. And it's not my day to day. You know, I'm not in the Hollywood game day to day, but it's definitely been a massive learning experience, the seven years of like how I thought it. But I knew I knew I was already naive, which helped me in a way. So I was never really truly disappointed when things didn't work out.

But I think everybody would agree that there was, we might say it's harder to get things made now, but what are we comparing it to? It was like a gold rush of content there for a lot. lot of creators out there. Hotels in Vegas may be booked solid this weekend, but there's one vacancy left to be filled at UFC 317. A new lightweight champ will be crowned. Grab your own crown at Draft King's Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of UFC. If it's the first time you've ever bet UFC at Draft Kings, pick a fighter to win.

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Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad. Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

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of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin, this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk because your primary thing now is podcasting. I thought about this the other day.

I was watching a Joe Rogan clip, and then it was followed by a Dax Shepherd clip. And, you know, if you would have guessed 15 years ago, you just said, what are the biggest Hollywood podcast or the biggest podcast? if I'd have said, Dak Shepard and Joe Rogan, you'd have thought, like, well, did Denzel do one? Or did, you know what I mean? Like, did Bo Bridges do one?

But I was thinking about podcasting, and I was thought, tell me if this is a weird tape. I thought the other day, I was like, what makes a great podcast? Broadcasting, which I grew up in,

and I'm still a broadcaster who has a podcast, but I'm not a podcaster. Broadcasting was always about the skill of broadcasting. You didn't necessarily want to show vulnerability. You were basically polished and you were current. And even if you were curious, you didn't get to talk about what you wanted to talk about.

And I'm watching Rogan and Dax Shepard and I thought, if there's a thread on what makes podcasting really good, Joe Rogan and Dax Shepard have had really difficult journeys. They talk about all their shit. and they're two of the most curious guys, genuinely curious guys. I mean, Rogan cares about shit that I wouldn't spend a minute on, and he's an expert on it. And I was thinking about, you know, people ask me all the time. I want to do a podcast. And my takeaway is, are you insanely curious?

You don't have to be skilled at broadcasting. You can burp twice an hour, twice a minute. But your take on the difference between broadcasting and podcasting, and I think it's tell everybody your warts and be curious as hell. And that essentially, if you're those two, you win. Yeah, I think a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense. And I think you and I are a little similar in the way we got into broadcasting where, you know, look, I had the Syracuse Newhouse School application filled out.

I don't know if I was going to get in. I might have gotten into like some thing that allows you to go there and then maybe you get to the school. And that was with a degree already from Vermont. And then after years of kind of toiling around and then wondering if I really want to take on more student debt, you know, I ended up getting a job in minor league baseball, which, you know, I've talked about. But that was like when I was that was like when I was turning 26, 27. And so, you know, there's one thing about being a broadcaster that understands, hey, this is. how I want to start the beginning of my monologue. And then this is what I want to make sure I do. You know, sometimes even at ESPN, I was like, do you give a shit about anything I say in

between the rejoins and the teases and the resets? Like, I swear, most of the feedback always felt. And then I, like, if I were maybe getting a little pissy, I'd go, Calhard sucks at all the formatics. And you guys all worship him. And I'd be like, well, that's Colin. But ultimately, like, I was, I was sitting there thinking, like, what Colin is saying in those opens, is so much more important than anything else. I don't care if his rejoins suck. I don't care if he gets to reset. I don't care if his teases are terrible.

What's important is the meat. Like, you know, what's the meat? Because the meat is what's going to bring me back. And it's funny, too, because I started to realize, like, when I would drive into work and I would catch you or if I was already there and, you know, you were on in the hallway or on in the office, I would be more annoyed when you had a guest than when you had an open segment, even if I, disagreed with everything that you were saying, I at least was interested in the way that you were

going to perceive things, right? And this is what I think is like a real difference between who is somebody that people want to listen to versus like who is a good broadcaster. Because we can get a whole podcasting thing too, where it's like, look, you can be a podcaster this afternoon after going to Best Buy if you really want to be one. You know, when I first started trying to read books about screenwriting, Robert McKee and Story, which is kind of like a standard book, he would say like, who would ever pick up a guitar and be frustrated that they couldn't play a song that afternoon, but yet everybody would open up final draft and think like, hey, I'm a screenwriter. And it's like, well, because one is the most intimidating thing and the other thing is just sort

of typing and you have to be bad at it before you can be good at it. But you don't realize how bad you are as a writer. You realize immediately how bad you are as a guitar player. And I think there's some similarities in like podcasting where you go, well, what's so hard about that? Like, I'm just going to grab a mic and I hit record and look at me. I'm a broadcaster, but I think the radio instincts helped a lot of us become better podcasters. But the real answer to what you were talking about, which I've sort of delayed in

getting there, is that you have to have life experiences to be interesting. And if you are like, hey, I'm high school football, I am doing all the Syracuse stuff. I'm doing all the Missou stuff, Northwestern stuff. And now I have a job like right away doing updates at 22 years old in Chicago, it gets great that you've already mapped it out and you're already on the air in the traditional sense of things, you know, where you had to kind of get somebody to say yes to you, where now no one has to say anything to you and you can just be a podcaster. But what made you interesting, and I think what makes a Rogan interesting or Dax interesting, is that if you have to fill up all this space, you better have gone through some different

experiences in life to then form perspective on all of these other topics that go far beyond like the technical ability that you might learn in a more traditional way that I don't think you and I ever learned. Yeah, no, that's just stuff I think about all the time. I've thought about it a lot with the volume is when I'm listening to people, what turns me on, what turns me off. And a lot of times, it's people with a lot of crap and they talk about it and it forms their opinions and life kind of perspective. And I think it's speaking. Let me stay on this. Like, I remember you got really personal once because of something you were going through.

So I don't, right, it was a divorce, right? Yeah. So you started talking about your divorce. I think you got a little shit for doing it. You wanted to share it with your audience because, especially in radio, which again, the fact that you've continued to do this three hours a day for this many years as somebody that had to do it for 10 years,

I don't know if, I don't know if I could do it. I don't know if I could, like when I was in it, I didn't think about it. Now that I've been out of it for seven years, I don't know that I could go back to doing it. But I don't know that you can become great at this, whether it's the talk show and obviously we're talking audio more here. Think about how many people are investing their time into you. And I've always felt like one of the biggest lessons was that they want to know more about

you. So even though it may seem unprofessional, it may even see weird. Hey, stick to sports. If you can find a way to make the human connection, I think you get paid back. with such incredible loyalty because you open up a little bit more. You show that you're vulnerable. Like all of us want to be right. All of us want to sound like we're the coolest guy in the room all the time.

But like you can't, you can't really do that. Like you have to, you have to be, it's not even self-deprecating. You have to be willing to share moments of your failure. And I think you did that in a way where in the, in the moment, a lot of people didn't understand it. But I really think that's what the audio relationship is about because you have to pay back all of those people that are investing so much time with you as part of their daily routine. Yeah, I mean, people, some people, I know me.

I tune into a show every single morning. Like, I have a rhythm to my day. Like, if the podcast isn't there every Tuesday and Thursday for people, I'm like, I'm kind of bitter. I'm like, you're my, I'm on the train now. I want to be entertained. So it's like you do give yourself to people. By the way, I do take the train.

and I didn't know trains do this. I know it's crazy, right? It's just freaking crazy. So I was in Manhattan Beach the last couple of days. I was in, out. I had to go see dentist and all that crap. So I was just in and out. But, you know, Nick Wright was joking.

He's like, dude, you will be off that train in two days when you get a car service. I thought it was going to be. But the burbs to the city in Chicago are worse than L.A. traffic. It's a 29-minute train ride and they have a quiet car. bro, I have never listened to more podcasts, yours included. I get on that thing in the morning at 7.30, 805 Ogilvy Transportation Center. My driver picks me up. I go to the Big Ten Network, do my show. I, it is, it forces me to podcast.

Otherwise, I just, you know, I'll sit around and just spitball and waste time and clean the house. It forces me to listen to podcasts. I listen to every five days a week. I'm on one for 30 minutes every day. So in a strange way, it forces me to be disciplined listening to other people's work. And I love it. Do you find yourself like trying out things that you would never listen to? Because, I mean, there's so much stuff out there.

Do you look at it? I wonder how much of it is as a consumer versus like an evaluator or somebody who's done the job for this long. Okay. So that's a good question. I trust my staff at the volume. They come to me with stuff. But I trust them to find stuff. the first year I was helping the fine stuff. But now I feel like I've got my farm system.

I mean, I've got my scouts all lined up and that's what they do and they'll bring stuff to me. So I'm generally looking for people. You know, it's like, oh, somebody told me about Sam Harris. Well, let's give that a run. And somebody told me about this. Okay, let's give that a run. I'm experimental. Like, I'll listen to, you know, for about a week and a half, two weeks, I was listening to Jake Tapper interviews. I wanted, I didn't buy his book when I wanted to hear him try to kind of wiggle his way out. of, isn't that passing? I'm halfway through the book and I, it was sent to me.

Where do you land on that? How do you feel about that? I have an analogy, but it's a little too harsh. It's a good line, but it's too harsh. It has nothing to do with my political leanings one way or the other. I think you and I are actually pretty aligned with the way we see the world. You know, I could sit there and get mad about a ton of stuff.

I just don't know why you'd want to do that all day. long and just share it. But some people are super into doing that. You just all day long, let them, you know, fire them off. This is wrong. This is right. This is wrong. I think Tapper, like a lot of people in the media, to pretend that the rest of us were the

assholes that were like, what's going on here? And then to be the guy that writes the book, maybe it's as simple as the publisher's going, this is the best. Like, let's get him to write the book, have everybody be pissed about it. And Alex also wrote the book with him. I just wonder if that was a tactical thing where it felt pretty gross to have Tapper be the guy that's going to write the book that's going to set the record straight. And again, I don't know how much did Alex do more of the work. That's the co-author of the whole thing.

I just wondered if it was like a publisher's dream despite the questions. So Alex is like the guy who just won that primary. you know, the socialist Democrat in New York, I always thought his strength that guy, because the last two weeks I followed that religiously. I was fascinated by it. A socialist in New York, right? I just want to make sure I said his last name. I felt that I didn't have it. Formerly of the Atlantic now, he's got a substack. So I've been following him for years. Much like that mayor, mayoral candidate, Alex has a strength, which is he's not snarky in disagreement. He'll listen. The discourse is redeemable. He's not tap. Tapper's different. Tapper sat on the throne on CNN and could be an a-hole and could be dismissive and snarky. So I'm much less willing to just go, whoa, he missed on that one. It's like how you presented it from your chair. Like Alex Thompson acknowledges like it's almost a journey with him. Hey man, I'm fascinated by this. Whoa, I think I'm right. But he's not dismissive. And that's okay. Like I find that. I find that that too many people, like I always say, I would like to be right, but I'd rather get it right.

So, like, I never get too rigid on the right thing. I think my thing, what Tapper was, bro, you came off as really condescending. I'm not into it. Bill Maher has strong beliefs, but we'll laugh at himself if he's wrong. Like, we just be like, totally own it. And I'm like, that's exactly how to present it. Now, Bill's obviously a comedian, so he's better at that. But when the media is, and the media mostly lean,

left, CNN certainly does. When the media presents itself as your argument has no merit, it's like, guys, we all have TikTok. We're all seeing the Biden videos where he's just stiff, standing stiffly. It's like, yeah, we've all had a grandma like that or a grandpa like that. We know what's happening. So that's why I'm willing to give Alex the benefit of the doubt and not Jake Tapper. Yeah, I would say, were an agreement on that one. You know, I remember when Bobby Knight went through all of his different stuff

and it was the Neil Reed incident where, you know, he choked a player, allegedly choked the player. And then the video came out, right? And so it was like, okay, well, now the video's out. And then Bobby Knight had a book that came out. And I remember, I didn't want to buy it because I don't want to read, you know,

200 plus pages of his self-absorbed vibe, even if I can respect what he was capable of doing there for a really long time as a basketball mind. But I remember jumping to get, man, I'm paraphrasing this because it was a really long time ago, but I remember where I was. I think I was like in Kenmore Square. There's Barnes & Noble there. And I was like, let me just see if I can find like the Neil Reed part of this book. And the way he tried to rationalize it.

And it was like, you know, I also thought it was really interesting, like how grainy the video was. And I just was so disgusted. I was so disgusted reading that being like, you're trying to figure out. I mean, this is almost like the defense attorney trying to. conjure up any reasonable doubt, but you're like, hey, look, like, this is a kid that went to your school and you lost your shit and you have a track record of being unhinged. And now that you're going to tell me, you're going to tell me that I'm an asshole for like questioning what happened here. And that's why I'm, I'm not super political at all. It has nothing to do with Biden or if it were the other way around. I'd feel the exact same way if you felt like you had very, curated opinions on this national story. It's a global story. Anyone that had any kind of common sense was like,

what's going on here? And then to be just reprimanded by so many people and then to have one of the guys that reprimanded you now making millions off of this book, I wouldn't want to write it. I'd feel bad. Yep. Yeah, that's how I felt. No, I, and it's, and by the way, I can,

I can respect somebody's political acumen. and their work ethic. But that's how I always fall. The other thing about... The Mavericks pick. The Paul, that might... So much for the draft recap today. Dude, listen, you've done that, that shit.

Whatever you want to do, man. Everybody knows you. So... No. So it's one of the things... This is the one thing about political talk that... where it gets, it's really cringy. When like a comedian, a funny comedian, Dave Chappelle's really talented.

It could be John Mullaney's really talented. It doesn't matter who it is. Nick Kroll. These guys are talented people. And they do something that's funny, but it's a little political. And like, or like Bill Burr says something. Now everybody's like, Bill Burr's not funny. F off, he's hysterical.

The guy is one of the all-time great stand-up guys. The cringiest thing political people do, or even the public does, is when you take a comedian and let's face it, one of the funniest things Saturday Night Live ever did, and I'm no comedy judge, but when they did that bit on the night Trump won and all these liberals are upstairs, I think Chappelle's in that, and they're in the apartment upstairs. Did you ever see that one? I think that's the funniest thing I've ever seen. Oh, it's all.

And what they're doing is Saturday Night Live, it's pretty introspective, looks at themselves, and they're like in a New York apartment. And it's during the election. And I think Chappelle's in it. And they're making fun of themselves and how New Yorkers talk, like, as Trump is winning state by state. And it's like that moment, I had more respect for Saturday Night Live, because they were making fun of themselves.

It was a real moment. I know you look that up afterwards. But there was a clear. shift with S&L where it was like, hey, and I don't know if that was because they were just, I don't know that it was aligned with Trump's victory, but it felt a bit of like, hey, we've been doing kind of the same material here for a long time. Right. For a long time.

And when I see like a breakout clip of a monologue from a late night host and you're just like, dude, that was that was a joke from like nine years ago, you know, you're still doing this shit and has nothing to do with like political, like, sensitivity. activities. You're just like, hey, I'm more offended as a content person, but you get to recycle this shit constantly. So I don't know if S&L did it, whether it was self-awareness, whether it was tactical or, you know. It was Chappelle, by the way. It was Chappelle. It's really, and it was a moment for me. It was like, oh, they get it. Like, they get, we're all kind of making fun of what they've become.

And I, so my, the only thing about politics where I'm really like, you know, is when people start telling me comedians who I've laughed at for 20 years aren't funny. You know, Chappelle did a transgender thing. And it's like, it may not be my favorite thing, but don't tell me he's not funny. Don't tell me he's not talented. That, and I always think to myself, are you trying to convince me that this comedian that I've watched six Netflix specials isn't talented? Like, stop.

Like that's how it's almost like it poisons people. They get so into politics that they think they're trying to convince people on the internet. Stuff we know to be true isn't true. That's where it's weird. I just don't have any time for that stuff. I'm not passionate enough about it. I mean, I certainly have thoughts. I can think some things are right.

I can think some things are wrong. But in our world, like, it doesn't really do us any good. I think every now and then, like, you'll feel motivated to go, hey, I'm actually going to use my platform to say this kind of stuff. I feel like there was a generation behind us at ESPN. end. Like, I've always, you know, this kind of goes back to your radio days, but, and I think I've said a version of this before. But every now and then, like, maybe every six months during your prime back then, you would, you would let something fly that was like a societal observation. And maybe there was a little hint of politics in there, but it just, it still felt safe,

but it was a departure from the, I don't know if the Steelers have enough, you know? Like, you were like, look, I got to do three hours. Let me, let me expand. a little bit, but it didn't feel like that's what you really deep down wanted to do. And it usually was really good. And then it would stand out because it was a departure from the norm. It was insightful. Maybe it got some people in the car thinking a little differently. And it would have this moment where it would kind of stand out. And then I started noticing like more and more. I was like, I feel like everybody's kind of doing this like a lot more. And then it was like, I don't know. I still like to watch games. And I'm right. Like I'm not. I'll admit like I don't. I don't.

know that I'm super educated on this. I can have a thought, but they'll be immediately all these people telling me that I'm wrong, depending on how they're aligned. And so, you know, back in the day of starting this whole stuff of like, hey, I want to do NFL Mondays, but I'd really start, you know, I want to start talking about like, you know, county seats and, you know, the change of representation. Like I like to start mixing that in a little Tuesdays. Maybe I can compare it to the Rangers bullpen. I don't know. But like, I'll figure out. away but let me start dancing in those lanes and i i think we had talked about this where i started to wonder like are you doing this to stand out are you doing it because you think it's right

are you doing it because it's just fucking way easier than watching a million games and staying on top of everything and so it felt like for a while there the job was kind of changing and it has nothing to do with like how i feel about what you do or you don't believe in when we started i got in because i loved sports and i don't know if the s and l things like a good parallel to this but maybe it has kind of come back around. Like maybe, you know, yeah, it's like sports kind of matters all over again because if you're really doing yourself,

unless you're just going to lean in so far one way or the other, you're like, okay, I'm aligned with this group and this is always going to be my group and they're always going to have my back and I'm going to have daily content and make fun of the other ones. Like the political content people, I'm jealous of them. Like every day you get something that you can make fun of that you'll have so many people supporting you.

No. Right. But for us, like, I want, you know, look, you do this long enough. You're going to have plenty of people that don't like you. But I don't know why I would ever really want to, like, have one career where I'm trying to, like, show off of like, here's, here's all this other stuff that I could talk about to get to. Again, because I don't know that I feel super comfortable about it. But the boss, the boss would always be like, what the fuck are you doing?

Why are you doing this? Somebody may love your football stuff. They may love your basketball stuff. But the second you start doing some of this other stuff, like, you're immediately going to piss off people that are just listeners and viewers and we're not actually in business to be losing those people. So even though I know there was an argument in the past of like, it doesn't matter about any of that. I'm like, really? Because I've never worked anywhere where they were like, hey, don't worry about your audience size. Just do you.

Yeah, that's still, it doesn't matter what platform. It's all about that. Hey, everybody, this message brought to you by Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey at the Colin Coward Show and the herd podcast summer is here. So it's a lot of long days and warm nights and the perfect time to kick back with a glass. Just that it two nights ago of Green River Whiskey. You're grilling, you're out at the lake, just enjoying the sunset with friends and family. Green River is your go-to pour this summer.

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What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

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We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracy. I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud.

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you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight. real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClease on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. So I said today on the show, I said, listen, I'm not going to come in hot on the draft, because it's a projection draft. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I mean, I just, I said, I think Cooper Flagg's really good. I think he's a more aggressive, better defender right now at this point than Tatum. I said, I think he's really good. He's not good as Tatum. He's really good.

The kid from Baylor, he's a disruptor defensively. He looks like he's going a thousand miles an hour. I'm like, that's an NBA athlete. Is he going to score a lot? I don't know. I thought the Spurs did pretty well. You know, what I do think, and I've talked about this a lot, and I want reaction. I've been on this now for about two months. There was about a 20-year period. So you and I grew up

with the Big East. And if you were a great player in the Big East, Pearl Washington is sort of an exception, or if you were a great team, you were going to be an NBA player. Ewing was going to be great in the NBA. I mean, just the way it was. There was about a 20-year run in college basketball. When the G-League happened, guys went to Europe, played one year of college, where like Doug McDermott, was the college player of the year. Tyler Hansborough was, you go to the pros and they were rotational guys. And then two years ago, I watched Yukon and I went, oh, shit, there's seven NBA players. They have NBA length. These are great players. And I thought, oh, that team could play with UNLV and Duke. That is a real team. And the reason it happened was guys are staying maybe a year

longer with NIL. Now American universities are poaching European players. I honestly feel like the last two years when I've watched college, we had a 20-year period. We were trying to pretend the sport was good. And Jay Billis said this day or day. NBA guys don't miss open shots. Like, it's just the seven-foot guy shoots better than the six-two guy in college. And I do feel like the NIL for all the bitching about it, Rick Bettino said this here a day, it's, it's, kind of made the G-League irrelevant. I watched the playoffs, Indiana, Oklahoma City. You know, G-League guys?

I mean, Amend Thompson's one of the only G-League Unite guys. It's like two-year college guys, three-year college guys. Chet Holmgren, one year, probably should have stayed a second because his offensive games hit and miss. But I do feel like the last two years I've watched college. And I think this will help the draft, Ryan, because it won't all be Euros. Even the Euros are coming and playing now at Texas. They're coming to play at Connecticut.

I feel like college basketball was kind of unwatchable for 20 years, and people kept saying, oh, it's great. It wasn't. It was diluted. It was bad. In the last two years, I've been glued to March Madness, and there's just more NBA dudes. College basketball is in a weird spot because, you know, growing up, I probably would rather watch Big Monday than NBA, you know, back when it was the Big East.

And then, you know, it was incredible. And then you got those pack 10 teams that were loaded with NBA players, you know, going back to those UCLA squads. Remember Washington State loving that team that year. Robbie Calgill. Well, I guess you want to talk about the NBA guys, so shout out to Robbie. But I

I'm with you because I think I even remember like you and Gottlieb arguing a bit about it being like, hey, look, college basketball is largely irrelevant up until we get to March. And with everything feeling like it has to be an event, which I think Silver's doing with the NBA, it's like, hey,

we've got the in-season tournament, we've got to play, like we have more almost like specialty events that we can partner in different ways. Like we're kind of just titling some of the same stuff. But, you know, if this means more revenue, then that's the game. And even though like I've talked about baseball with this being like, hey, be really happier, this incredibly successful local market thing and that your playoffs are an incredible product and you just hope that you have enough storylines to carry over that secondary interest. The tournament doesn't necessarily need all these crazy storylines because the event,

itself is still one of the greatest sporting events in the world. But you're right to point out, like, whether it was Ignite, you know, with Scoot, they had Dyson, they had Hardy, Janeland Green, comminga. And then you had the Amin-Azar Thompson deal with overtime, I think. Yeah. It was starting to feel like, okay, this is, this is like even more tenuous for a product that was already really struggling with its regular season in college basketball. So I think the tournament has always been something everybody's always going to care about because it's basically like a football version of gambling in a different sport where it's just so much fun and you almost feel left out of American society if you're not in the tournament.

I don't know that they're ever going to recover any of that stuff from the regular season. But the draft trends of what was happening with guys circumventing college because of the compensation, going to New Zealand, you know, playing the Australian League and they come back here. It hurt the draft. Rath-wise, for you to have eight, what, college guys before Esengay, well, S&G went 11th. So, well, no, Colin went, well, you went 11th. Yeah. Yeah. The other guy went ninth to Toronto.

And even Yeager Deman, you know, he comes from Russia, but he's at BYU because of the NIL stuff. Whatever it was, and I don't know all of a sudden, if everyone. he's going to be prioritizing regular season college basketball over the NBA. But there was something that was incredibly fearful as these other alternatives that the NIL has helped college basketball solve in the short term. Yeah, no, I just, I watched the draft last night, and I watched the Yukon a couple years ago, and I watched March Madness, and I'm like, okay, I'm back into the sport. And I have always been sort of loyal to the number.

Like, I stopped talking college football for about 10 years because it was Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia. And I felt like nobody Denver West gives a, you know what. And when the, I remember when the PAC 12 sort of, when USC decided we're going in UCLA, I got a call. I was in Turks and Kikos with my family. And Eric Shanks called me and said, I just want to give you a heads up. This is going to be announced in about three hours. I was in an airport and I couldn't tell anybody, but I started doing some social and having our staff get ready for it. And I remember thinking, oh, I can talk college, I can talk college football again.

You know, like, oh, USC's going to a conference. And then there was a lot of talk even then about Washington, Oregon getting in. I'm like, okay, that's a real conference that they'll be able to compete. They'll get some Midwest kids. They'll get Big Ten money. They'll be more fortified because the Pac-12 was paying to $30 million a year. Big Ten is paying you 70. USC was complaining to me.

It's like, we can't compete with anybody. We don't have the money. And so, like, I feel like, you know, I just follow what the audience is following. And I would see those numbers for Alabama couldn't sell up some home games. I would see some of those numbers. And it was like, people were getting tired of it. I was getting tired of it. So Alabama, though, I don't know.

I'm going to push back on that. Alabama was an incredibly spoiled fan base to the point where Saban had to beg fans for day games to come in on some of those lower level matchups because they just expect in the national championship. every time. I mean, it's the only campus that I'd ever been to when I used to travel for college game day because I did the radio part of it along with TV where it was the only campus. I'd be like, oh, game day's here again. Like, whatever, you know,

I'm going to sleep in. You know, every other place, it's like a, not even a national holiday because you know it might not ever be coming back. So as you say that, though, like, let's be honest, would you have avoided talking college football based on some numbers if you were still at ESPN? Because I sensed an SEC

Big 10 shift. there, buddy, when you started, when you started working somewhere else. No. Well, no, I would say this is that clat is a big 10 guy. And so, yeah. So I was always, I said this for years. SEC is the best. They went on recruiting day.

They went on draft day. They went on Saturday. That's the best. I don't want to hear it. But I did notice about four years ago. and when the NIL started, and there's a lot of money in those big town schools, those 60,000 student body, a lot of those graduates do very well. I started noticing like four years ago, I'm like, yeah, people are poaching Georgia and

Bama and they don't, like, I think Nick Saban realized, like, before Texas came in, it's like, oh shit, Texas is bigger than Alabama. Texas looks better than Alabama. So about four years ago, I started saying, and then it was the Harbaugh team before they one. I'm like, yeah, I think that's, they're as good as Georgia. Like, I'm watching the Saturday, and I'm like, they got like 10 NFL guys, you know, all over the field. Georgia maybe has 12. So I do think about four years ago, I just watched the games and it's like, you know, and I started watching Caitlin Clark. I was just like, well, shit, she's shooting from 33 feet.

That doesn't even make sense. I mean, the line's 22. So I tend to trust my eyes. And when the Big Ten, when Harbaugh's team the year before they won, I was like, oh, they caught up. At least the top of the Big Ten's as good as the top as the SEC. Yeah, I've heard this. I actually think people are like more unfair and how they critique the SEC than it is about being pro-SCC because I just see a lot of media members that all have Big Ten backgrounds that have been like incredibly celebratory about what's happened the last couple years. Now, I've heard the NIL theory.

I think Sabin would have figured it out if he was motivated to figure it out. but he may have been right right he's been there since 2009 or no 2007 excuse me 2007 that first year where they lost to Louisiana Monroe so um now I'm trying to remember if I have that year right I feel like I feel like I'm messing up a year because I would have been on college game day for Tuberville Iron Bowl they got smoked I think that would have been 2008 so uh anyway I got to look that up um I need I need more results I need more parity I mean, I need more balance because, you know, the people that didn't like the SEC still didn't like the SEC when they had seven different national, or excuse me, seven

national championships in a row, you could run through four or five programs. You're like, okay, they could win a national championship. They're playing for a national championship. It didn't feel like the other conferences could be that deep. Certainly the Big Ten is in the conversation now, especially when you add a team like Oregon, you could say, hey, you're also adding Washington who plays in a national championship two years ago. So that puts them on the probable list, even if that is probably more of an aberration for

that program and just having an incredible year where everything kind of came together. So you might be entirely right about the balance of it flattening out the top here a little bit. But I guess for the people that I know hated the SEC so much, they were still arguing against the conference when they were winning all these titles. And so now if the standard is that the – Yeah, I wasn't one of those. So the standards that the Big Ten has won back to back with two different teams the first time in 80 years, then the thing that you said didn't even matter when they were winning is now the thing that matters the most because you could also

you could also just say, hey, the SEC had an awful quarterback year. So maybe there is this shift, a shift that's long overdue, you know, sports are cyclical. Maybe the Big Ten's about to have this incredible run. But it's very hard for me to say that because of the national championship results, and look, Tennessee looked just fucking frigid. against Ohio State. That looked like a football team that was not interested in competing, and they get trucked in that game. I just have a hard time with the people that do this for a living that are on the evaluation side. They're like, that's still the best conference. Like,

are you like, what's going on? I think the sixth best team. I think, I think, I will say this year, I think about the sixth best team in the Big Ten will be Washington. And I think the sixth best team in the SEC could be Oklahoma. And so that to me is where about, I think about where we're at. I think they're both. And if they played, it's a go-either-way game. Whoever is at home wins. Because I think Penn State's going to win it.

I have picked, I remember when Ohio State lost to Michigan, I said my favorite part about college football is Ohio State's going to lose as a 20-point favorite in their last big game and they're going to get into the tournament. And by the way, Kansas City, the year the one the Super Bowl two years ago, got beat by Oakland in like week 16 or Las Vegas. And I'm like, yeah, they should be in the playoffs. I don't care. Just like put the best teams in.

I got Penn State winning it. Singleton's amazing. Drew Aller is getting better. I think they're the best backfield by a mile in college sports. Just to clean it up. It was 2008, Iron Bowl. Tuberville did get smoked and that was his last season. So that's, I remember just being down there for that.

But Sabin had already been there. Obviously the previous year when he had the bad record. And people were like, is this guy really going to be? be that good. He's really good on TV, by the way. Yeah, I think he, you know, I think he wants to, he takes it really seriously. Yes. Yeah. Like he's right. I know a couple of guys that are really close with him that are with them all the time when they're on the road. And he is like adamant about making sure the stuff that he's talking about. Like he's, he's not just out there. Like he cares. He actually cares like what are we doing? How are we doing it? Which actually makes the most sense

ever if you know anything about the guy where I remember this story because I've been down there a bunch of different times and I really loved I just have so much respect for Sabin. I've loved interviewing him. I always hated any Belichick comp because I was like Belichick is not interesting. Like he goes out of his way to not be interesting and that's like the game he's playing. And Sabin is really thoughtful. And for whatever reason, people try to like lump them in because they were both successful and had kind of this tip. They're not the same guy. And look, I think the world is Sabin, and it seems like whatever he's going to do,

he wants to make sure, like, okay, what's the best possible way for us to go ahead and do it, which is exactly the way he runs a football program. Wait. Well, yeah, it's when Urban Meyer is a friend of mine. And like Urban watches film. Did I ever tell you my Urban, and that's when Urban comes on the show, mine. Like, I will talk to him before the break. I'm like, have you why?

And he will have watched film. I never forget years ago, when LSU played Ohio State, Jim Tressel was a coach. And I saw Urban, I can tell this story now. I saw Urban in, I think he was at Florida or was leaving or I forget what it was, but I think he was at Florida at the time. Yeah, because they had just won the national championship the year before. Yep, and they were, LSU was playing Ohio State. And I caught him in the hallway.

he went on for about eight minutes. He literally described the game. He said, Ohio State will move the ball early. Mo Claret had a big run early, I think for a touchdown. He said, ultimately, LSU's got about twice as many good receivers, twice as many good running backs. They'll wear him down. They'll pull away in the second half and they'll win by like 14. And he went like for eight to ten minutes.

He literally, I mean, he'd watched film for both teams. He literally, he recited the game. So I took that and went on the game and talked about the game, basically using all of his stuff and say, hey, listen, I just talked to somebody I trust, blah, blah, blah. It made me sound so smart. But he, I like these ex-coaches because a lot of times, I mean, Sable will watch film before that Saturday show. Urban will go and watch film and break it down like a coach. And it's, and they're so freed, right?

There's no pressure. They're watching film now without an agenda, not to protect anything. and I think both those guys provide something, that film knowledge that's really valuable to me as a consumer. Yeah, so LSU wanted in 07 when they had the second loss. Remember, that was the year in 2007, where UCF, Boston College of rank number two, West Virginia, if they'd beaten Pitt. It's still one of my favorite college football years ever because whenever you go through any like the research packets for the upcoming weekend, it'll be like this is the last time. The last time this happened was in 2007 because like 2007 was a free for all. And even though LSU had that second loss, they're like, look, I was going to vote this team back in.

I remember Tressel after the fact saying that was a game when we were preparing for it. We knew we had no chance. And then they lost Ohio State. And, excuse me, Ohio State loses the Florida the next year. And that was the thing. Like, this is the Big Ten argument. This is the pro Big Ten argument that for years we were conditioned. Like, remember the Alabama Michigan State games where you just go, Jesus.

Oh, 34-0-0. 35-7. That isn't happening as much anymore, okay? And that's not just about the Michigan and Ohio State National Championships. And I think they're kind of like further the point is that we may be on the cusp of this thing that like is real. It's just so hard for me to think that like there's going to be another region. You know why though? So here's my take on this. Alabama's doing car washes and bake sales. And Ohio state's not. Big 10 schools. Most SEC schools are smaller schools. I think Auburn's like, is it 16,000, 18,000. Wisconsin, Ohio State Michigan. Those are like small cities, man. I mean, it's nuts. And they, all those graduates go all across America and they go to New York and

L.A. and they make a bunch of money and they give it back. It's much easier for these big 10 schools. I mean, USC's now spending $20 million NIL, the 2026 class. They just went and bought. this insane class. And that's just because of NIL. That's not because they suddenly figured out how to recruit. They've got money.

And so now the Big Ten's got Seattle, Los Angeles, Columbus. You know, these are massive. I mean, Penn State's got Philadelphia and New York graduates everywhere. SEC is a lot of small towns. And I just don't think the NIL money, I mean, I just don't think they have the NIL money in most instance. I think Georgia does, but I don't think a lot of teams do. Georgia is also closest to the biggest city in the south, Atlanta. Well, there's more money, more attorneys, more doctors, more, you know, venture capitalists in Atlanta in the south.

And they're Georgia. I do think sometimes, too, you'll have, you know, it's a very human nature thing, but you become motivated by something that you don't think you can get as opposed to expecting it, right? I mean, it's the king of the mountain analogy here where, you know, is Georgia, is motivated to spend when they put together these these runs. Like, what if Alabama's not in the playoff for 10 year? What do you think, like, what do you think that NIL is going to be like or whatever? You know, like Ohio State after losing to Michigan before the season. And it's still, this is one of the things I think with college football that even though

people love the expansion, I don't. It's more of a reflection of how much I hate the realignment. I've already done these rants far too many times. But I'm watching your network and it's Ohio State, Michigan. And the broadcast is like, this is for everything. And it's like, yeah, except it isn't. Ohio State's going to lose this and then win a national championship. And I will forever miss that that is not on the line.

But yes, it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of this incredible rivalry and what was like an ugly, awesome, just a brutal game. And the emotions that game are just like they're on the TV screen. It's a fucking awesome product. But when I think about Ohio State this past off season, and grabbing Caleb Downs as soon as Sabin's out of there, going to get Will Howard, which at the time, remember, like the summer it was a bit of an argument,

like, hey, well, if he was that special, like, why is this guy leaving K State and all these things? And it just works. And we knew that it was supposedly this $20 million program. Is this about Ohio State should always be able to fund all this stuff? You name the top blue blood programs, the places where it matters the most. I don't know that this is ever going to be an issue,

but there is something about that void. There is something about feeling like this is bullshit that motivates you in a way. that's just hard to replicate when you're used to all of the success. So I think that's what will probably happen amongst the top schools. It's just a matter of like how many of these top programs do you think will have access to maybe a spending spree. And look, apparently now we have a cap at 20 million for an entire academic department. Yeah.

Good luck figuring that one out. Good luck being the tennis coach. You know, like, hey, really like this kid from Choate. you're like yeah well we our guy needs a six defensive back so sorry yeah that that thing a bit of a circus yeah well i i told you it was only going to take 30 minutes but that's not we can't talk for 30 this fucking thing's already got an hour sorry i didn't mean to do that i really didn't i want i know you're busy i know you got to do like 16 local hits uh in spokane that's available yeah i feel terrible are the sonics coming back so um well no man i just love love talking to you know

how I feel about you. So whatever you need. Same here. All right, buddy. Appreciate it. Love all you. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

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Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

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This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akila Hughes, and Rebel Spirit season two is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more, amazes to enslavers than there were to enslave people.

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