The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Saturday Special- Colin chats with Warren Sharp of Sharp Football Analysis and Sports Business Reporter Darren Rovell

Episode Date: May 23, 2020

In this exclusive podcast Colin talks with Warren Sharp of Sharp Football Analysis who has a unique and very detailed way of breaking down the NFL schedule and why it is unfair to some teams and beneficial to others. They also discuss the futures of Taysom Hill and Cam Newton.Then, Colin talks with Sports Business Reporter Darren Rovell about the impact Covid-19 is having on leagues and franchises. They also talk about what will happen when they come back and how all of this will change the world of sports gambling Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, everybody, and welcome to our Saturday podcast. Well, there's a lot of encouraging news about sports coming back.

And the CDC government website, young people are perhaps much more safe than we, initially thought. There's a lot of encouraging signs, although social distancing should still ensue, wear masks, wash your hands. But I do feel really positive about sports, and especially football because this began in this country late February, early March, and football doesn't officially in the NFL start until September 10th. And there's a lot of different topics I look at and think, this would be an interesting topic. It's been a hard time to provide content, but not impossible. and what I've looked for during this time is people who deep dive on stuff.

Warren Sharp at Sharp Football, Sharp Analysis.com, did an incredible deep dive on his website about which teams were most impacted by scheduling inequalities. And this is something I've said for years. We just think baseball schedules, NBA schedule, football schedule is a non-story. I believe football schedules are a mass. massive benefit. I mean, the Jets last year, at the end of the year, they never went west. Baltimore this year isn't really going west. I think it matters. We've seen West Coast teams traveling east, playing early games can affect teams. So Warren, let's start with this.

You did a thorough investigation showing there is a massive issue in regard to fairness in the NFL schedule over the last decade. Let's explain this. Go ahead. Yeah, so there are, you would think that in a league's driving such to create competitive balance across the spectrum of 1 to 32 as much as possible, as much as possible, they would be able to do that with the schedule. Now, we have to understand obviously that the league doesn't pick who your opponents are going to be. Those are decided based on a rotational basis. A couple are decided automatically based on where you finish in the division. They don't pick the teams you're playing. What they do control is what day you're going to play them.

what time of day you're going to play them. And they're in complete control over that. So what I did is I was prompted to do this when I looked at the Baltimore Ravens since 2008. They played 14 Monday night games. They traveled on the road for 12 of the 14. They only hosted two. I said, wow, this is so crazy. Let's look at the Thursday night game.

And I also found that there was a big disparity in terms of the teams that got to host Thursday games versus those that had to travel. And as you know, when you're playing on a short game, rest, the distance between a Sunday game and a Thursday game, you have three days of rest. And if one of those days you have to travel to your opponent, that's an edge for the team that's hosting that game. And so I started digging into what are some of the other edges that theoretically could be out there in terms of playing on a Monday night game on the road and having to travel the next week or having a negated buy week. And I found a lot of

inequity going around the league. I was actually shocked that there was in something to league completely controls such a difference between the teams that have had it easy and the teams that have had it really difficult over the last decade. So eight teams will play three games on a short week, and that means fewer than six days between games. Cowboys, Giants, Bucks, Rams, Bills, Patriots, Raven, Steelers. But one of those, you believe, really gets hosed. Yeah, there's a lot of teams that I think are just in very difficult to try. with the games that they have to play on these short weeks. The New York Giants are a team that have had to play a ton of games on short weeks.

They've had one of the most inequitable schedules across the league over the last decade. This season, they play three road games on short rest. Wow. And that's a very difficult thing for a team to prepare for. And the one key with this entire analysis is the league controls all of this. So the league could make it such that if we're going to give you some difficult situations in one sense, we'll benefit you in other senses. Maybe we could give you a home Thursday night game.

Maybe we could do some other things to help ease your schedule. But I don't think the schedule makers, A, have taken enough of a dive into this analysis. I mean, I talked to some guys within the league. I've talked to guys at GM levels, at coaching levels, and above, even, both of those two with various different teams as a result of this analysis. And they have told me that they have not seen anybody do as thorough or rigorous analysis of the NFL schedule over the last decade. And they think that this is definitely going to open up some eyes within the league in terms of the different things that they're going to need to look at in the future to try to increase the parity in the equity. We know that some teams they don't want to put on Monday night, right?

It's okay if you don't want to put the Jaguars on your primetime games because they don't draw much of an audience. And it's okay if you want to put the Colts or the Eagles or some of these other teams on your primetime games because they do. But you can't make the Colts go on the road for 14 of the 20 games on these prime time slates, whereas you let some teams never travel on the road on prime time. It just needs to be balanced a little bit more. Yeah, I see here that the following teams, Warren Sharp saying, were impacted the most negatively by the NFL's scheduling inequalities regarding prep and rest. The Eagles won, the Giants, two, the Colts, three, the Seahawks, four, the Bears five. And then I see the following teams receive the strongest benefit from the NFL schedule regarding prep and rest.

One of them, number two, jumps out to me, the Cleveland Browns. So you have Jacksonville, Cleveland, Carolina, Detroit, and Tampa Bay. Now, Cleveland's a real team with a real roster. their benefit, explain it to the audience. Yes, so they've had a lot of positive things that have gone for them for the last decade. And the one thing that we have to note here is with Cleveland, as well as some of these other teams, bad teams historically, even with benefits of some scheduling help, are not all of a sudden going to become great teams.

There's reasons why these teams are bad that just having extra rest than your opponent are not going to fit, as you well know. So an example for the Cleveland Browns, over the last decade, every team has had 10 by week because there's 10 seasons. The Cleveland Browns has not had a single one of their buy weeks negated. By negated, I mean that you're about to play a team coming off of your buy, who also had a buy the same week that you did. Therefore, they're coming off of a buy as well. That's never happened to Cleveland. In fact, I think there's seven teams in the league.

It's never happened to over the last decade. on average it only happens to teams 1.8 times, 1.8, so less than two times out of 10. The Indianapolis Colts have had six of their 10 by weeks negated. Six of their by weeks, their opponents have also been either coming off a buy or in one case, they were coming off of a Thursday night game, so they had a mini buy. So you can't have it where a lot of teams have zero, and then a team has six of ten. But there's been other benefits to Cleveland Browns are one of the best teams in league in terms of, They haven't had to play very many roads Sunday or Monday night games,

so they haven't been coming off of those with short weeks to prepare, having traveled back to their home late at night and then trying to get ready on a shorter week. That hasn't happened to them. So there's a lot of different factors that have benefited some of those teams, but it's not necessarily going to be the single thing that's going to help this team produce a winning record. By the way, nine teams will play three straight home games. The Niners, the Browns, Tom Brady and the Bucks, the Cowboys, are in there, the Eagles, the Vikings, the Titans.

So I always think that's a benefit. You don't have to basically leave. Four teams will play three consecutive roadies and Cardinals, Redskins, Saints, Patriots in that group. So it's Warren Sharp joining us. Now, for the record, has the NFLDU created measures to help West Coast teams traveling east? Have they ever, because that's one we all know about Warren.

That's discussed by even guys like me. Have they made, are there variables they've added or subtracted to help teams? Yes, they, over the last couple of years, for example, a variable that definitely has helped is they've allowed these teams not to have to go back-to-back trips. They've allowed them to stay out on the East Coast if that team requested. So I believe this offseason there was eight different teams, maybe six or eight different teams, that requested that two games on one coast be sandwiched together so they wouldn't have to

take four trips there, back, they're back across the course of the season. and they could just take two. Once there, stay, extra week, then come back home. So the league has started to allow teams to do that from either coast, and that definitely is helpful. One of the measures that the league tried to implement to offset an advantage that the Dallas Cowboys were gaining was Dallas obviously hosts these Thursday games for Thanksgiving, as do the Lions.

So what the league said is, well, because Dallas is hosting these games, let's give them a little bit of a penalty. let's make them play a road Thursday game, which would be a good thing. That's the right intention because of the edge that's gained by these Thursday games that you host. However, what the league did is they stuck that host game the week after Thanksgiving. So instead of making Dallas travel for a game after Thanksgiving on Thursday, on a short week, they give them the full seven days between games. So therefore, it's no longer a short road Thursday game for the Cowboys.

It's a standard rest game for the Cowboys. There's not that big of a difference between hosting or traveling. The issue is the short week in which you have to travel. So that was a move that the league tried to implement, which really didn't have any impact at all to hurt the Dallas Cowboys. So they need to do something else to offset Dallas being able to host all these games and simply making them travel for a Thursday game the week after Thanksgiving is absolutely not helping. Warren Sharp at Sharp football, just terrific stuff.

A deep dive and investigation on coaching prep time, distribution of primetime games, player rest, and how it affects teams. I think it matters. As I peruse all your teams, I think the Eagles got hosed, and the Cleveland Browns got a break. And in the end, those teams, I think have playoff rosters. I don't think Jacksonville will be aided. But like you said, that's not going to make a bad team good. But it is fun. Now, I want to talk about a couple of other issues because last night, a blown call changed the game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way.

Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being in a... internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You really do. are one of these early adapters on analytics that my coaching friends and executive friends read your stuff. So I've made this argument about Taysam Hill that 10 years ago, if you'd have told me Warren, jump into a stranger's car, he'll take you out for dinner. I never would have done it. It's called Uber. Ten years ago, if you'd have told me, you'll no longer go to

a movie theater, you'd rather watch all the movies at home and they'll be released to your home. I would have thought you're nuts. That's the world we live in. Very fluid things are changing. So I look at Taysam Hill and I think, oh, God, no, he's just a better Tim Tebow. But then I start to think to myself, Josh Allen was a wreck often in college. I didn't think he was refined or polished at all. He's 30, but in the NFL, 36 is the new 30. I look at Taysam Hill. He doesn't look like a franchise quarterback my entire life.

But Warren, it's a new world where Lamar Jackson, I don't consider a great thrower, coming in. He's the MVP last year. What do you make of Tason Hill? You know, a different quarterback, but the league is changing. Athletic quarterback matters more. It's a very pro-offensive league now with rules and regulations. What do you make at Tason Hill? Well, he's a so interesting case study because, number one, I think that the quarterback and the offense coordinator slash play caller are so linked that he will benefit tremendously by having a guy like Sean Payton if he ultimately becomes 2B1 in New Orleans, which is what they're talking about having happened.

You know, Greg Roman with Lamar Jackson, if Lamar was there with an offense coordinator that didn't change his offense to enhance the skill set, Lamar would not have had the MVP season like he did, but thanks to the offense, it allowed a special player to blossom and shine a lot more radiantly. With Payson Hill, the issue to me is we don't know yet what he's going to do in the NFL. The benefit is Sean Payton has worked with this guy all the time. And the quotes that Sean Payton has shared are so glowing about Taysam that you have to kind of buy into, hey, Sean knows what he's doing offensively.

So if he believes in this guy this much, there must be something there that we aren't seeing. But certainly when you get the guy in the game and you see the plays that are being designed for him and you see what they're asking him to do on the plays that he's actually executing things. Nothing is really standing out that says, oh, my God, this guy is a revelation. This guy can be a difference maker. If I break down his rushing and his receiving, his rushing, for example, most of his runs are coming as quarterback design runs. They're coming on first and 10. And so you inherently have the added benefit of having an extra blocker there, whereas if you're Drew Brees and you're handy,

the ball to a running back behind you, you lose Drew Breeze as a blocker. So you have one less blocker on those plays. But case until success and efficiency on those first down run, he's gaining 5.4 yards per carry and a 52% success rate. That sounds really good. But Alvin Kamara is also at 5.2 yards per carry, 54% success. Ingram, same yards per carry 51%. Even Latavius Murray had 54% success running in an offense. So he's not really elevating any of the rushing. And when you look at the short yardage, which he's obviously great, he's converted, I want to say 81% of his short yardage runs. You say, well, this is tremendous. It's got to be like the best on the team. Drew Breeze has had 11 quarterback sneaks over the last couple

of years. He's got 100% conversion rate. Zach Line, their fullback. He's had 12 rushing attempts. Paytham, by the way, has had 16 in these short yardage situations. and Zach Lyon has an 83% conversion rate, which is higher than what Kasem Hills is. Now, the benefit of Kasem is you can put him there and you don't know that they're always going to run the football, right? So he could be throwing the football, but they really have an interesting depth of target with him. His depth of target on average, he doesn't attempt to pass much, but is 16 yards downfield. I mean, these are deep, explosive shots. So you're generally going to have a lot of inefficiency in those, like hit or miss so that your yards per attempt will be skewed.

success rate is going to be skewed, especially if the defense might be thinking you're going to run the football. So I isolated, what is he doing when he's passing within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage? On short passes, what is he doing? The problem is the sample size. He's only done that six times in the NFL, but he only has a 33% success rate, average 3.3 yards per attempt and a 44 passer rating. Those are obviously not very good numbers, especially compared to what Drew Grease is capable of producing. So the bottom line for me is I'm not yet sold on Payson Hill. I haven't seen anything from him specifically, statistically.

That makes me say, wow, this guy could be the next Lamar Jackson. That said, I have a lot of confidence in Sean Payton and his opinion of players. And number two, I have a lot of confidence in the way the NFL is trending, as you kind of alluded to. And the fact that you can get a dual threat guy who's capable of running and putting the defense on their heels, that is one of the biggest advantages in offense has in the league and must continue to exploit is that you can have an advantage of the defense when the defense doesn't know what you're doing. And if you're too predictable, that's when defenses can gain a little bit of leverage in upper hand. But as long as you're an offense that stays unpredictable, you're going to have an edge over defenses thanks to the rule. Cam Newton's an interesting story, Warren.

I was told for years from people inside the building, he was a lot of work. It was a limited audible selection with Cam Newton. He was tough. He played hurt, but there was a lot of drama. And if you look around at what coaches show you they want, backups or not, they don't want celebrity quarterbacks. Now, sometimes with Tom Brady, you don't have a choice. Or Aaron Rogers, good-looking, handsome ads, he's great.

But coaches have shown you. They'll take James Winston and his mistakes, but they think he's a hardworking, mostly humble kid. They'll take Nick Foles, limited, hardworking, humble kid. kid. Marcus Marioota will get second chances. Ryan Tannahill will get second chances. I look at Cam Newton and I think distracted, dramatic, and celebrity. I'm not surprised. He is not, his market, as I predicted, would be a very, very tiny market. He's also beat up physically. Are you surprised at all? What are the numbers say, you know, we know he's been kind of hot and cold

post-MVP season. Tyrod Taylor's got a better winning percentage, and that was not with great coaching. Cam had Ron Rivera, who's considered a very good coach. So I'm not shocked by Cam's small window. I think he's inefficient, inconsistent, and dramatic. Are you surprised the window appears to be smaller than even I thought? In a sense, I am surprised because Cam is the type of quarterback

that is capable, if we're talking about what he can do on the football field, first rather than the off-field stuff and the leadership thing. I think that what he brings to the table is this ability to be multi-dimensional. He's one of the most successful rushers at the quarterback position that we have in the league right now. And his ability to be productive and to convert those plays and to draw extra defenders to try to think about what is Cam doing on the play. Could he be running the football definitely helps the offense.

I would have agreed with you a little bit strong. not that I disagree, but I would have agreed even stronger. Had I not seen what he did in the 2018 season when it was the Turner's first year down in Carolina, I thought it wasn't going to be the perfect marriage. I thought what they were going to ask of Cam, he wasn't going to be able to adapt his play style to the deeper down the field targets. He was very inaccurate. But they got him to complete almost 68% of his passes.

That was the best he's ever done in terms of his yard's, attempt, his touchdown rate, all were the best season he's had second to his MVP season in 2015 when they went to the Super Bowl. So they really were able to coach him to do things and he changed a lot in his game to increase his productivity. So from that perspective, I do believe that he's coachable to modify his game to adapt a little bit to the offense that you're going to throw out there. But there's a couple of negatives. Obviously, he was 30 in 2019 and he got injured. extremely beat up, as you mentioned. He's had a lot of carries, a lot of physical pounding on his body. He's coming off of an injury, the worst off season to be coming off of an injury in recent memory.

So those things work against him. And in addition, I can't comment as much because I don't talk to a lot of the other guys around the league who would be evaluating him from a leadership perspective and in terms of his maturity perspective and his work ethic perspective. I can't really comment on that, but I can say that if he was healthy, I think he's worth a short-term contract for a team that didn't have to invest a lot in him. But the question is, is a team willing to take him and is he willing to sit as a potential backup, those things he's going to have to reconcile in his mind and the team is going to have to get on the same page with him. Expectations of Cam, wherever he goes, are going to have to be very clear and he's going to have to buy. in completely to what the coach wants him to do. If he can do that, I think he's definitely going to be an asset and a plus EV attribute that a team would bring on if he can fall into what his role is going to be. I think he's enough of a good player right now, but the injury really hurts him this offseason. Okay, I want you to go check out Warren Sharp, SharpFootballanalysis.com.

It's terrific stuff. The schedule stuff is fascinating. You'll be you'll be unhappy to know the Cowboys get a bit of a scheduling break and that'll drive all of you nuts and the Eagles don't. But it's all fun. It's all good. Warren, I love having you on. Thanks so much. Go to his site. Great information. My NFL guys are all over it. It's terrific. Thank you, Warren. Thank you, Colin. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room

stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of

my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me Keer games is we have real conversation

about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the AIDS. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for Blackburn. people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's our Saturday podcast and another one of our guests today is a guy I've known for a long time. He is a grinder.

Darren Ravelle, NBC, CNBC, ESPN, his Twitter's at Darren Reve. He's a sports business reporter, senior executive producer for the Action Network. And he's got an expertise and information that very few do out there from everything from ratings to branding. And I want to start with the last dance. It got big ratings. And obviously there's a scarcity of content out there right now for sports. How much, if at all, did it combat some of the revenue ESPN Disney issues? Was it lucrative?

fun to watch. Oh, I think it was lucrative for them for sure. Now, I don't know, obviously, I don't know how much Jordan got paid for it. As the relationship worked in the 97-98 season NBA entertainment essentially said, okay, we're going to do this, we can shoot this, but it only works if you are the one who's in control of the content. So it was ultimately Jordan's to sell, even though it was a partnership with the NBA. So I don't know how much they paid, but I'm sure ESPN had a nice margin on that and got people to, you know, get back to the network.

I mean, the key is, and is this real or not, whether it could be worth a little bit more, do you get people who are cord cutters to say, man, I got to see this. It's not going to be on Netflix until whatever. Does the timing matter for people to say, well, if I can't get it now, maybe I'll, you know, get, I'll bite the bullet and get cable. So the question is not only, you know, in the dollars of advertising, but does ESPN somehow get more subscribers? And, you know, over, I don't know if I believe that that would be the case, but on Sunday they have the Lance Armstrong drunk dock. If they get all these docs that are really, really strong and people feel they need to watch it. in real time. I do think there's some sort of carryover. Small, but some. Jordan's brand is the greatest brand, not just in wealth, in terms of appeal, broad appeal that I've ever seen. Now,

some of it may have been the convergence of Nike was growing. He was their first superstar brand in sports. Maybe it's that. If I said to you, the Jordan Dock is still the most powerful, or the Jordan brand is still the most powerful NBA brand, because if you look at shoe sales, what's the biggest brand take out Jordan for any athlete in the world today and then give me the top three in America? Someone who's branded themselves not just an athlete. You know, I would say the Tiger Woods T.W. with Nike as that brand was on its way, was on its way. And then things happened in 2008-9, you know, went down. you know, the Golden Bear and Jack Nicholas is still strong, but it's really hard to name because

there's no one generating the revenue even close. You know, Jordan, the Jordan brand is going to do three and a half billion this year. And the secondary market on Jordan's is probably a $500 million market through people buying on goat and stock act. So that's even, some of that money, Nike's not even, you know, cashing in on, there's really no one close. I mean, like, Ronaldo would have the highest in terms of if you want to buy an Instagram mention from him, you know, he's the guy who would be $150,000 for one mention. Or, you know, LeBron, LeBron costs by himself. But no one really kind of owns. the brand, like Michael does, even though, again, technically he owns nothing, but he's probably

making $125, $150 million a year from Nike. How much do you think it is he was Nike's first star? And first in, you know, early adapters, first in means a lot. A lot of it was timing. I mean, if you read Malcolm Gladwell's book, Outliers, you know, it's all about life and timing. And, you know, what we had when, Jordan was there was, you know, Magic and Larry and Dr. Jay had their converse deals. But the NBA became what the NBA did, and the dunk contest really came into it, you know, where it really got comfortable in terms of people loving it. And you had the best guys dunking, and then you had the photo, and then you had the banning of the shoe,

and then you had just Jordan being so good, and black and red being, the colors that they are and he happened to play on the bull. I mean, it's just a tremendous confluence that you can't really generate. And, you know, so I think a lot of it was a fortune, and a lot of it was just, you know, the fact that they nailed the right guy. And it was, and it was certainly at the right time. Darren Ravelle is joining us. I want to move to the NCAA. College football, you cross your fingers on it. The NCAA yesterday approved voluntary workouts for football and hoops program starting June 1st. I had a source tell me last week that even as formidable an athletic department as Ohio State,

if they do not have games, they'll lose, you know, that will be the kind of tsunami financially. They're not sure if they could overcome. That's why there's a story today. They want 20 to 30,000 people in the 105. seat horseshoe, 105,000-seat horseshoe, they just need some revenue. Is it time that we look at

college sports, where football essentially pays for virtually everything, a handful of college basketball programs make north of, say, 7 to 10 million? Could you privatize football so they don't have to carry things? I think going forward, there's

going to be real limitations on the size of athletic departments. A handful of Olympic sports, you know, men's and women's soccer, basketball, you know, there'll be some regional specialties. But when you look at the need, the necessity for college football for this whole thing, or it's a Jenga game, you pull it out and it explodes, do you think this has implications going forward, massive changes going forward on the whole sports system of college? I don't even know if we can think about changes before we think about how crazy this is and how massive it is.

Yes, Ohio State, you know, 85% of their revenues are on college football. Wow. And the bigger the stadium and the tradition, the more you have. You know, so you go down the line and you think about LSU and Michigan and all those guys up top. I know that there has not even been renewal. There's been some schools. There's some massive schools that have barely gotten. 50% renewal of the season tickets.

So, like, even if we have a vaccine tomorrow and we return to 100%, the question is, would people even go? I mean, there's going to be a hit no matter what. So this is kind of like the, we rely on this system that we've created, which is why the athletic directors say, well, we can't really pay the players because this is our system. There needs to be some sort of change in the system, and this is. maybe the wake-up call because we've seen, you know, the first sports to go are pretty much usually track and field, swim, and we've seen, you know, 30 to 50 programs being cut in the last

four weeks. So it's got to be a change, but first we have to look at this and say, wow, football is just such a big piece. And before we boasted about it, and now we say, oh, my God. Our sports, Darren, for instance, I think the NBA could not come back and be fine because it's a star-driven league. And with social media, stars get a lot of attention quickly. Kevin Durant comes back. LeBron, your stars, that, you know, December they open a season up again. We'll come back to the NBA. I do worry about baseball.

It's very international. It doesn't, it has an anonymous minor league system. We don't know many of its young stars. we, it is a, it's not a star-driven sport. It's a habit-forming sport. Correct. When the habit goes, you just forget about it. I think baseball, which has lost a lot of social currency, a lot of water cooler talk over the last 10 years.

Shows like mine do not talk baseball until the World Series. And I'm not saying my show is be all end all, but on the two biggest sports networks in America, ESPN and Fox, the talk shows don't talk about baseball. You talk about what people want to hear. Yes. So my question is, I think baseball is in a more dire situation than the NBA, which could pull us, I mean, look at the Jordan documentary. It pulled us right back in. What do you make of what happens if there's no baseball or no hockey?

Is there an order for you of leagues that need to get back? Yeah. Remember, you know, the 94 strike just. killed so much of the momentum and then, you know, needed five years later, four year, five years later for Sosa McWiarmesh. The issue here is going to be, they might not get back, but it might have nothing to do with COVID. It could have to do with a labor negotiation. The only way they're getting back now is this revenue share, which never existed. The players are worried that this is going to lead to a salary cap, which they've never had. And the players say,

hey, we've never been partners with you when you make money. Why when you lose money are we partners? So I think that if baseball could get back in the virus scent and doesn't, I think there's further damage beyond not playing. It's a fan who's been in on the sport basically says, no, now I'm angry because you could have gotten back and you didn't. And that's why I think baseball is they they have the most to lose and then they have the most to lose on top of that because there's a negative public relations with the fact that they might not get back because of labor, nothing to do with the virus. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you

exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at a podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Were you surprised how quickly Adam Silver pivoted to shut the league down to we are not built for a a long-term pandemic and a sense of urgency collectively with his stars that we've got to play this year. Were you surprised, it's almost like California's Governor Gavin Newsom. Two weeks earlier, no sports. Suddenly, somebody got in his ear and we're opening the state up. I mean, I live here. It was, I mean, we were all like, what happened? Who got in his ear? Are you surprised by

Adam Silver's quick pivot? Not really because it wasn't as quick as you would imagine. I mean, it, it happened. over weeks. I mean, I think that out of all the commissioners, I trust Adam as a not only working for the owners, but as a guy who understands, you know, the general temperature of the water. He's really good at that. And I think, I think when he had a chance to fully look at the financials, because they're certainly modeling. everything. When he fully looked at the financials, he said, we, you know, we definitely got to get back. The whole thing with getting back is all about the athletes are going to get COVID-19. They are. I mean, at least as of now, if they started today, there's going to be guys who will get it,

and they just have to survive. I mean, if a player dies, that's going to be a pretty bad public relations nightmare. But you just have to say, well, these are the healthiest guys in the world. and, you know, we're going to try to get the conditions as good as they could be. But ultimately, even though baseball has a 67-page handbook on what they're going to do, in order to get back, you have to accept that someone is going to get the virus or a bunch of people will and that they'll survive. You know, it is interesting. When this first started, one of the things I said on the air is this is a health crisis.

and I said about two weeks later, this is becoming a financial crisis. And then about two weeks later, I said it's now becoming a massive mental health crisis. But initially... Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, when I said that initially in March, lots of pushback. And I said it on the air and I got pushback. I said, folks, this is just not, it's just not a health crisis. We have 47,000 suicides a year.

We've never solved mental health, nor we manage it. Correct. We manage it. now I think the media is coming around to the point of okay I do think initially I don't think the media did any favors to the public I think there was a lot of panic scary headlines and not accepting people were losing jobs in your world as you have viewed sports opinions on this do you think we've handled it well in terms of balancing the multi-crisisies we face. Now, I have a unique perspective. I'm 20 miles from New York City, and I'm pretty much I live in the first place where you can actually have land in a backyard. Why does that mean something? Well, we've had 1,600 deaths in my county of 800 people. I know 200 people who've gotten it, and I know 10 people who have died. So I am in this, you cannot walk anywhere without a mask,

and in most places mask and gloves. And, you know, so I see this side, and, you know, we've had more deaths in my county than the entire state of Texas. So I have a perspective of, like, okay, the people who say you're freaking out about this, well, I'm living close to ground zero. So, but I do think that there is some sort of need to be able to move on. It's just, it's so uncoordinated. And, you know, it's good that Gavin Newsom is moving on in a way because, I mean, otherwise, you're just going to have the chargers and the Rams playing in Dallas. And there is a, it is a definite push pull here.

I think mental health, especially mental health. Unfortunately, I think just as many people are going to die from mental health issues this year as COVID in this country. I agree. I think that's going to happen. I think, you know, the financial part of it is devastating. Then you have other issues where you create these new issues by trying to get a solution. So you create an unemployment program where in New Orleans, if I'm a waiter in New Orleans,

I now get for 13 weeks more for unemployment than what? what I got when I was employed. Now, how does that help me wanting to get back, unless I'm taking money under the table, when we do get back? It doesn't. So there's a lot of problems that are created here, and I do think that there's only so much you can say. You're not allowed to say the mental health thing too early.

Yeah, right? Like, I get ripped on Twitter because I say something too early, you know. But things need to be said. things need to be said. And it's the most difficult thing we've ever had. It really is. And I think everyone is under so much. I just think having the perspective of actually seeing the deaths, knowing how sick people got, to me, it makes me a little bit more wary, but I'm right on top of the financial capital of the world. So, you know, it's, it is definitely a unique situation. And it is so hard. and how are you right? How are you right in any sense? So that's why these guys are under so much pressure,

Colin, because, you know, what happens if a whole offensive line gets it? What do you do? And what's the, how do you replace people and what sports better at that? I don't know. God forbid there's a death. Is that, do we stop again? Real questions, Darren Ravel. You know, let me just segue briefly, pivot brief. because you only got a couple minutes left on sports gambling, pen gaming, draft kings are two of the hottest stocks. Yeah, they're blowing up. Yes. Thank God I have a smart broker.

Going forward, bar stool, pen gaming, how does it look for you in five years, ten years? You buy all these convergences of these companies, these connections? I mean, one of the reasons why I moved from a major media organization at ESPN to betting is because I was sure that it was as Teflon, as you can imagine. And it will be because even against the background of job losses, maybe people losing their salary by 20 to 30 percent, people are very bored right now, one, and two, the value of fun. and adrenaline has the greatest value we've ever seen against the background of what we've gone through. So people are going to come back to betting. Betting is going to be one of those industries that will instantly rebound. Draftings, since their conversion, it wasn't an IPO, since April 23rd, they're almost doubling their stock price against no real sports.

and so betting is definitely going to be a big bet, and then you have another thing. You have all these states now that have to come up with more money. And you have New York where Cuomo has said, I don't want to, in the last budget, I don't want to generate new revenue. We're not doing any new revenue. Exactly what he said.

You're going to tell me in their fall meeting when they call this emergency fall meeting, and they need to make $13 billion up that online gambling is off the table? I don't think so. So I think states are now going to open up faster. I think the value of gambling is greater. And again, I think it's one of the quick rebound industries will have. Darren Revelle, I always appreciate 15, 20 minutes. I hope you're doing better and well. How is your county doing today in regards to COVID? Yeah, so I think there's certainly fewer deaths.

I mean, I literally had an anxiety attack when I heard what was going, when I heard about the people who were dead being thrown in the hot. If you drove by the hospital, you saw three or four freezer trucks of people, you know. I mean, I literally had an anxiety attack when it reached its height around April 15th. So, you know, just the idea that, oh, if I got sick, like, the hospital's not available. Doctors are not available. But I think it's getting better. We're still not doing anything close to meeting with friends. I'm more concerned for my children who, you know, my daughter had a virtual sleepover the other night.

I'm like, how does this thing work? She's like, well, we put each other on FaceTime and then we go to sleep. I'm like, oh, so you're like sleeping together. And she's like, yes, I want to go out of the room and cry. That's how it works. You know, my twins are watching a virtual egg catching, you know, where they're at some farm and they're, we did it. The one thing we did, we did a petting zoo, but it was a drive-by zoo, you know, where you can't get out of the car. And so it's, it's, you're trying to make this not a scar on their life.

I'll say one last thing. you know, it's amazing how much we've bashed technology and keep the kids away from the iPads and all this. And now the iPads are saving them. Oh, yeah. I believe, I believe that they won't look back on this. Let's say this is a blip on their radar, that they've been able to see friends through FaceTime and other things where they've managed to have a semblance of a normal life and for this not to be some black hole. So that's, that's, that's, that's, that's what I worry about. But, uh, uh, you know, hopefully, hopefully everything can get back. But I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a slow guy by the fact that I'm, you know, I'm, I'm sitting here and near, near,

ground zero and, uh, you know, three or four people on my block got it. And one guy was in the hospital on a ventilator. It's like 9-11 in terms of, I was in New York that day. no one around the country, if you weren't in New York or don't live around New York or don't have people in New York, you have no idea. You just cannot have the same perspective. Right. And that's where we are here. It's good to talk to you, Darren. Best wishes and well to your family.

And I have read and seen the difficulty it is for you. And I just wanted to reach out and talk to you. And I appreciate you doing it. Thanks, Colin. Love you. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the Internet Logger. lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in.

I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL

late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. get your podcasts.

On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist

and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world

that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.