The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Saturday Special - Colin sits down with Darren Rovell

Episode Date: April 6, 2019

Colin talks with the Action Network's Sports Business Reporter Darren Rovell about the disastrous collapse of the AAF and what it means for the XFL.  They also talk about the NFL's misleading stance on gambling and the changing profitability of social media in this exclusive podcast. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed.

you just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The main investor of the entire league had not been mentioned until a week and a half ago. And the issue is he failed a simple Google background check. Welcome to our Saturday. podcast where we talk about things that sometimes don't fit for the show, things I want to extrapolate on or poke and prod on, that I just think are interesting. So you wake up on a Saturday. And you know, if you listen to me, I like business. Sometimes it doesn't kind of work for my show, but I love it. And Darren Revelle is a sports business reporter and senior executive producer for the Action Network, which is growing like crazy. My buddy Chad Millman's over there. Used to be at ESPN, NBC, CNBC.

Darren, how are you? I'm good. Good to hear your voice, Colin. So we had DM'd. I slid into your DMs. A couple of times on the AAF. I joked. I did not want to get Adnan Verked.

So when I have information at my company and in our business, I just try to stay away from getting involved in stuff because sometimes it's proprietary. I found out about eight to ten days into the. A.A.F. I really liked the idea. I bragged about it for a couple of weeks. And then I found out about eight, ten days in, they didn't have any money. I do think spring football works. And I think the XFL, for a lot of reasons of which I'm not going to discuss until mid-May, I think it works. What do you make of the AAF shutting down? Do you think it's a negative for spring football going forward? Is it a positive for XFL? Where does it land for you? Not a negative for spring football, I think just by virtue of the first week and how exciting it really was.

I think they hit on a model that I hope the XFL is going to go after, which is just get good football players. Don't try to get Tim Tebow and obviously the end, Johnny Mansell, which is a different story. Get players who are good. Logan Woodside, who honestly, I'm a big college football fan, never heard. of them. There were a bunch of guys in high profile positions that I had never heard of who were good. Yes, Trent Richardson led the league in touchdowns and okay, so he'll be a guy. You can get a couple names. But if it's good football, I think the lesson overall is that you should go for good football instead of marketing first. The rest will come.

Yeah. And this is some, yeah, listen, I'm a big believer in two things, capital and leadership. XFL's got a lot more money. They've also got Oliver Luck, Vince McMahon, and those are successful, smart guys. I tend to think the XFL will also have better TV partners. So I just, I've always felt the XFL's got better people at the top. Your takeaway on that opinion. Well, the problem with the TV for the AAA was that it was kind of like pseudo big. It was, yes, you're going to start the season on CBS.

But then you're going to go to CBS Sports Network and Bleacher Report and others. So when there was a successful first week, let's say there weren't the financing problems, there was really nowhere to go. And people, I think they made too much of the tech and said, well, people are going to be able to stream it after that. The bottom line is that TV is still the place where people go, where they're the most comfortable with. And the phone is the second device. It is not the first. Maybe one day it will be.

Yes, with the cord cutting, it's more, but it's not the first device. So they made that mistake. I just want to say on the financing part, you know, they made several huge errors. One was that, you know, it took me forever to find out who is, you know, Peter Thiel and Peter Churning and a whole bunch of people were named. that were being thrown out, well, the main investor of the entire league had not been mentioned until a week and a half ago. And the issue is he fails a simple Google background check. How is that possible? Reggie Fowler, the guy who was going to buy the Minnesota Vikings before

the Wills took over, pledged $170 million to back the league, and at $28 million, things started getting tight. I just don't know how, given that you've seen in the past that he hasn't come through, that that is your main backer. And then they were so strapped that they had to make a deal with the devil, which is selling out to a guy like Dundon who has a different objective than you have. And it just, after a while, it's not about the football, Colin. It's about just the financing wasn't right, and they just got caught.

Yeah. Darren Ravelle, sports business reporter and senior exec producer for the Action Network, a growing, fledgling, but growing and growing fast business. Zion's upcoming shoe deal is Nike's the current favorite, you know, Adidas, Puma, Under Armour. I thought it was reasonable when Zion got hurt and exploded through his shoe. at the time, I'd shut him down. Yes, me too. You felt the same way?

Yeah, shut it down. Now, I think he actually helped his brand by coming back. It made him more joyful. It made you see how much he loves the sport. So I think he actually made money. Plus, Nike's going to have to win this deal because if he doesn't go with Nike shoes, he's basically telling you he didn't trust Nike shoes.

So I think he's going to make a fortune. Let's go back to when he was hurt. Do you think there were discussions about not bringing him back? Yes, among his people. I mean, Coach K would never tell you that, but I'm sure there was the discussion. The bottom line is, these guys don't have enough insurance. I mean, I think I was unable to get what his total disability insurance would be, which was if he got hurt and was to never play again. I think it's around 10 million. That is preposterous. If the NCAA is allowing schools to pay for these guys' policies, it has to be adequate and commensurate with their real

market value. So he had a $10 million policy around, and I know he had an $8 million loss of value policy. Again, not, if he would have started to, if he got hurt and he slipped to the 15th pick, he would have started collecting, but it would only be a total of $8 million, which should not come close to falling from one to wherever he would fall. So that was the first thing. It just, it doesn't make sense. It's like you run the, it doesn't make sense to run the third leg of the triple crown.

Right. Because the horse, if, if the horse wins the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness, you can't buy $55 million worth of insurance. So it actually does not make sense to try to win the triple crown. It's the same thing. It doesn't make. sense for him to play. And on the negotiations with him, I think everyone's obsessed with having a number.

I think his only issue is that when LeBron had the negotiations, you've got to remember, Adidas had not bought Reebok yet. So in earnest, it was Adidas, Reebok with Sonny Baccaro and Nike. And to have three players really in the marketplace makes a difference. I don't think Underarmor's in the game. I don't think Puma's in the game. balance or sketchers, I think it's just Nike and Adidas, and I think at the end of the day, even though there is something to the fact that Nike has to win him, I'm not sure that a two-horse

game is going to generate something bigger than LeBron's rookie deal. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different

intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about on healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets. meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant, this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds,

just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WMBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that.

Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me.

And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world, Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports.

I want to shift to sports gambling. Web. Yeah. Obviously, the action network's a big player in that, and I have great respect for Millman and people involved there. Peter Churning group, really smart guys. Have you tried us out during a game? Oh, no, no, no. My guys on my staff are big fans of your app.

Big, big fans of your app. I mean, basically you'll never look at another scoreboard again. If you're a gambler and you put in a bet, you know, we're basically telling you in the moment your likelihood to cash. Exactly. Which is like, you know, we debuted a live wallet feature. I mean, you're going to watch the scoreboard in our app as your gambling. because we're telling you where you are. It's so much fun and it's so much agony. There was a stigma for years about sports gambling, and I think it's mostly off the table.

Now, obviously, in 40 states, it's still not, you know, Supreme Court ruled it's legal, but it's not in a lot of states. In some states, Utah could be conservative in an Alabama. If you have sort of conservative culture in the state, politicians will, you know, I mean, you just know. Native American tribes is a big one, too, because it screws up their, you know, sovereign. deals and they're worried about not having the same deal. Are you, that hurts Florida and North Carolina. That's good information. Here's my takeaway.

The NBA's all in on it. You know, everybody's all in on it, except, ironically, the NFL, which is still standoffish with it, even though they've benefited much more than any other professional league. are you surprised by sort of the, if not indifference, the sort of eloof, cynical NFL stance on gambling so far? Okay, so they're publicly aloof, but privately they know what they're doing. Now, that seems like, well, what are you talking about? Why would Roger Goodell, who's going to take another L?

There's going to be three L's in Roger Goodell's last name now, because he's going to take another L. and he knows he's going to take it. But the thing is, in these meetings, in the owner's meetings, they basically showed the last owner's meeting, they basically showed a timeline as to when they were going to acquiesce to all this. And so they sold the sponsorship to Caesars to be the official, like hotel, gaming hotel of the NFL. And it does not include gaming.

So all the other leagues have done gaming deals except the NFL. The NFL does this pseudo-examination. deal that doesn't even include gaming. Now, I came out with a story saying this is so dumb. What are they doing? We know they benefit more than anyone else. And someone called me and said, you know, you realize that they just created a category where they sold nothing for more money than the gaming deals of the other leagues. You understand what I'm saying? Yes. Cesar's gets nothing, but because there's kind of an association to the NFL and they're not selling the gaming deal, Caesar's paid more money than MGM paid for the NHL NBA and Major League Baseball deals,

and that includes gaming. So some of it is purposeful, but it's going to roll. It's going to roll. It's going to look like idiots. No one will look like more of an idiot than Gary Batman. When I was in Vegas, and I know your history of being in Vegas, but when I was in Vegas for the Vegas Golden Knights, I said, what are you going to do about gambling?

This is the day that they became a franchise. I flew out to Vegas. What are you going to do about gambling? He says, well, the two sports books that are closest to T-Mobile Arena, we're going to take the nights off the board. And I'm like, what? What do you? Team Mobile Arena is half owned by MGM.

And then 18 months later, it's like, you know, well, I made a mistake. And once it was overturned by the Supreme Court, we just had to do what we had to do. Well, yeah. I mean, but you spent, how much money did you guys spend fighting? it for four or five years. You know, it's funny about the NFL. I've said this, Darren. Comedians, by and large, are liberal because it's much funnier to attack power.

Yes. Right. And media, by and large, are liberal because it's much better. And it's much, same reason, right? The media is almost anti-NFL that doesn't cover the NFL because it's powerful. And I've noticed this. To me, it's just tangible. Do you see the same thing?

like Goodell takes a beating. The NBA's got a tanking problem, a parody problem. No one cares. Nobody cares about the regular season. The media doesn't even address it. You know, it's almost like the NFL is like a real world WWE. There are plot lines to, oh, Goodell, who does he hate? Does he hate the Saints?

Does he hate Robert Kraft? he hates the Patriots. You know, how stupid can you be? How many times? I mean, it's almost like when Roger Goodell does the state of the NFL at the Super Bowl, it's almost like the media comes in there as if they're tigers and Roger Depple's a fresh piece of meat. Oh, there's no question.

It's so transparent. Yeah, it's so transparent. People are out of breath because they get a shot in front of 300 people. to ask Roger Goodell and make him look stupid. Even though no matter how stupid you want to make him, he's just going to straightly answer the question and not show any emotion, which is his MO. Yeah.

I've said this for years is we don't like anybody in power anymore. The approval rating of Obama was like 48%. I don't know how he's offensive. It's one of the least offensive families in the history of our country in power, and he was 48%. Nobody likes anybody. Goodell, by and large, they've had some real stumbles on domestic violence. But other than that, he's a very good, very smart commissioner.

He just gets hammered. You know, it is funny about the NBA, because I love the NBA. I tolerate the regular season, but I grew up with the NBA. I love the NBA. And I like Adam Silver. I think he's a little, I thought David Stern was too pro owner. I think Adam's a little too pro player. Is that a fair criticism?

I think so, but I think that Adam is also acknowledging how powerful the players are. And I actually think his respect for the player is worth money to the owners. I know that doesn't make sense, but I feel like his respect for the player comes off so that when they enter negotiations, at least they have a chance. You know, the NFL shouldn't be the league going through work stoppages. The NBA is where the players truly have power, though they don't get a commensurate share of revenues through that power. And stars mean more in the NBA because they control more of it on the court

when you get a star how much they're worth. So I think Adam Silver knows how good of a deal he has, and he thinks that respect is valuable. Yeah. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama. the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardaway with me, your host.

your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know.

Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going.

From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't. Don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile,

that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abbey. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

I mean, listen, the league is always been as popular as the likability of its stars. Magic was likable. Dr. Jay was likable. MJ was infinitely likable. Shack was very likable. D. Wade's likable. I think LeBron's mostly likable,

although he's a little polarizing now. I think Steph Curry is incredibly likable. I think Zion is just, It's so engaging. His smiles amazing. Yeah, so I think they're in good shape. The parody issue, you know, Durant probably leaves. I think they'll be fine.

But I do think the tanking issue is real. I think the load management situation where good players take major games. I'm watching Sixers' Bucks and it has a real feel to it. Oh, but Jimmy Butler decided last second not to play. Do you think that is an issue going forward, which is the players do have so much power? Maybe they're misusing it a little bit in the load management. stuff. It's a major issue, but the problem becomes that I don't see it being less of an issue anytime soon. Agree. You know, in Europe, in Europe, they have all these soccer players

on bikes and doing things and rule players out aggressively. You don't have to be hurt to sit out. If you show a tendency, like if you, they look at your tendons, they look at your hamstrings, they look at if unfortunately you haven't slept enough and you have a susceptibility to injury, they look at it as the investment. They don't care about the ticket holder. But it does become a major problem with the tickets. I mean, to have a game where it's the one that stood out this year was the Lakers Bucks with Janus and LeBron out in the only time in Milwaukee in its new arena, you know, where someone in Milwaukee for the first time, I mean, people were spending like $5,000

receipts in Milwaukee. I mean, and it didn't come with an extra piece of cheese. I mean, it's just, it's unreal. That's a lot of money for Milwaukee. As any coach or general manager will tell you, the foundation of any great team is great talent. So it's no surprise teams dedicate so much time and effort towards finding the right players. And the same rule applies when it comes to hiring. you need top talent.

But you don't have endless resources to find it. Luckily, they do at ZipRecruiter. They scout talent for you. One click sent your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards. The powerful matching technology scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and then invites them to apply to your job. It is so effective at ZipRecruiter that 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in a day. First day. And right now our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this

exclusive web address. ZipRecruiter.com slash Colin. That's C-O-L-I-N. ZipRecruiter.com slash Colin. ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. A. Ravell, Sports Business, Reporter, senior exec producer for the Action Network. Okay, couple of things. Stephen A. Smith, big story this week. Eight, 10 million bucks a year. Of course. I don't think that's a big deal. I think that's where salaries are going. I just have one thing. Yeah, I mean, I have one thing. And we're going to be on the same page there because I think we both feel we create value and we've been rewarded.

But for Stephen A, I think he has to do more with social. I think he has to be more involved genuinely outside when a camera is not on him. Yeah. He has to have more raw moments by himself when he decides to turn it on. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I went heavy. I told my staff when I came to FS1. I said, let's not pay too much attention to Twitter. Let's get it right on Twitter. Let's have edited, polished rants. I said, let's go heavy Facebook.

Last year, my Facebook made over a million dollars. We had 331 million views, which is the top. Wow. Yeah, I blew away. Every North American sports host, Sports Center beat us, but they, you know, our sports center. we went heavy, heavy into Facebook. ESPN did not allow that. Fox has been incredibly welcoming of Facebook. They've helped me a ton on that is I think as a rule, individual people are too into something you can't monetize Twitter. I think Instagram and Facebook and YouTube is so visceral. When I walk around and 16-year-olds, 18-year-olds, 20-year-olds.

That's how they consume my show. It's my Facebook page. I'm not a Facebook guy, but I now spend about 80, 20 on Instagram to Twitter. I made the move about a year ago. And, you know, I'm a heavy proponent in Twitter. I stay in it. I stay in it in the moment. But when it's not an actual live game, I'm on Instagram a ton.

And part of it is because Twitter is just impossible to sell with. It's just a news network. Yes. Between the swipe-ups and the new Instagram shopping where you can click on things, it's much easier to sell. And their Facebook and Instagram are obviously owned by the same company. Yes. Facebook and Instagram's algorithms are exceedingly better than anything Twitter does. Yes.

No, I just have to go where the money is. I just had this meeting Wednesday. I got back off a little brief vacation. and I had Wednesday, I met with my Ross, my social guy, and I said, let's scale back, let's go heavy into Twitter next 24 months. Let's just go, or not Twitter, let's go heavy into Instagram next 24 months. I said Twitter plays to vanity, but you can't monetize it, and it's kind of a sewer. And so I just think Instagram is more joyful, it's cleaner video, and you can monetize it.

Well, that's true, too. I mean, it seems like on Twitter, everyone can't wait to get you. On Instagram, everyone's your fan, and everyone wants to be positively lift you up. And that does count for something. Yeah. Finally, Darren Ravelle. Russell Wilson, to me, is the most underrated player in the NFL since Steve Young, because he's different. And he's getting Kyler Murray drafted.

He got Johnny Mansell drafted. I think he helped getting Baker Mayfield drafted. And he's going to be the highest paid quarterback in the league. this has been a defensive first football team. Pete Carroll's a star, Legion of Doom. What do you make of his contract? I think he's worth every penny. I think when you put Ciara into it, I think they're a power couple, a J-Lo-Arod feel. I think Seattle's gotten a discount with him. What do you make of the idea of a $35 million Russell Wilson contract? I'm good. The only thing I'm not good with is he needs to figure out how we just talked about

Zion and LeBron and NBA guys are really good, despite being celebrities and having cameras in their face of being genuine. Russell is a cliche ball. He's very, it's very difficult for him to be real in the moment. People think he's fake. I think he needs, I think it's not only if you're paying a guy $35 million, are you going to do what I pay you for on the field? I think he needs to have a better relationship with people, with fans. There's a lot of people counting on him,

and I just think he needs to do work off the field to be kind of just a more genuine person, because I feel like fans want to feel close with their stars, and I think they feel close because it's Russell Wilson, he's their guy, but I don't think they feel close on a level of like, I know who this guy is and I buy anything you tell me to. So I think he needs to work on the, on the genuine side. But yeah, I mean, we can't, we can't look at numbers as if they're fixed. I mean, NFL teams by the moment are getting more valuable. And as a percentage of what that team is worth, it's the same as

when Joe Montana got four million. You know, the business is 10 times bigger. And the cap space is going up every year, too. So it's a smaller, smaller percentage. Darren, I love talking to you. This is good stuff. Saturday morning podcast. Darren Revelle, you made me smarter. A lot of things I just didn't know that you provided for us when you're in Los Angeles again. Where do you live now? I'm in New York. Actually, I mean, I live in New Jersey, which is great because there's 14 apps to bet. Really? 14. 14. Wow. Well, it's like living in New Jersey is like living in Europe. There's nothing in New York and you cross the border.

And the guy at New Jersey Transit who is cold called for seven years, you know, he's cold calling saying, hey, we're trying to sell sponsors. Nope, nope, no, don't want to buy it. Then gambling gets legal and drafting calls. Can we wrap the outside of the train? And then Caesar calls and says, hey, can we put our logo on the floor of the train? Hey, can we draft King's Fan duel? I mean, it's insane.

And that's part of the reason why I made the jump, by the way. I mean, just to see it before your eyes, how many times do you get to see a mature business that's not mature in 48 other states? And it's just going to roll out, and it's just going to be incredible. Jersey's Europe with a bottom bang and a lot of exits off the freeway. There you go. There you go. And a jug handle.

A jug handle. Good talking to you, Darren. All right. Take care. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12

in the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. We perform. starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue, 42. Hey, Brett.

My mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano.

It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to you.

He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.