The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Saturday Special with Clay Travis and Bryan Curtis

Episode Date: April 11, 2020

 In this exclusive podcast Colin talks with Bryan Curtis, Editor at Large for The Ringer about how radio and TV hosts around the country are a source of familiarity to people seeking escape from Covid-19 newsColin is also joined by Clay Travis of Fox Sports Radio and FS1 to talk about why so many people in the media got the devastation of this virus so wrong and how Clay has been one of the few voices spreading positive news during this pandemic Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, everybody. Welcome to our Saturday morning podcast. From this point forward, foreseeable future, certainly for the rest of the year. We're doubling the length of it. Two guests, not one. And we just think more people are at home.

behind the rope here a little bit, stuff you don't care about. Our podcast numbers have gone up, actually, despite having no games, because more of you are home looking for entertainment. We're all kind of Netflixed out, perhaps. I think I've watched everything I can possibly watch on Netflix. Our first guest here Saturday is Brian Curtis, the ringer's editor at large. He's got a press box podcast, Twitter at Brian Curtis. He just wrote a really interesting piece on the ringer titled How Sports Radio Hosts

have become grief counselors during the time of coronavirus. And Brian, how are you this morning? Good, Colin. How you doing? You know, actually, I'll start with this. I'm doing fine. I've never been a watch game talk about game guy. That's not really my show. I can do that. And I think most guys can do it.

I do broad topics. So for me, my radio numbers are up. My digital's up. My podcast up. Tuesday, Wednesday. My TV ratings were up from last year. and there's no games. So it hasn't affected me. I see ESPN's numbers in some shows down 20, 30, 40%. It's not a shot, but I think they have different kinds of shows. So for me, it's not been that big of a deal yet.

That's obviously a huge traumatic situation for America. But when you listen, that's what you do for a living. Do you think some shows are built more for this sort of stoppage and some aren't? Absolutely. And it really is. I think if you talk to sports radio hosts, they'll tell you it's the men from the boys' moment, right? Anybody, as you say, can do, we watched the big NBA playoff game last night. Let's talk about it. But there's another tier of sports host who can say, I can tell stories, I can be entertaining. I don't need those raw materials to do a good show. and at a time like this where you don't have the raw materials, you've just got to be a great entertainer, right?

And it really does separate, I think, certain tiers of sports talk people. You can probably say writers, too, from others. It really does. Yeah, there's no question. Some people are more comfortable telling stories. I mean, one of my favorite announcers of all time is Vin Scully. I can remember, you know, listening to Vince Scully in my life, and, you know, a ball would get on the field,

or he'd have a two or three minute delay. and Vince Scully could just tell unbelievable stories. A lot of guys are more mechanical that do play-by-play. They're not personalities, but a hairy carrier, a Vin-Skulley. They're storytellers who just do play-by-play. Now, there is, the Paul Feinbaum was talking about in the article you wrote for the ringer that, you know, he's uncomfortable. Is there a balance to you?

How much, if you were a program director, do you believe that we should discuss the virus and its impact to a certain level? So I think it completely depends on the host. And I don't think there's exactly a right way to do this. Find Bomb's idea over there on ESPN is. My entire show is going to be about the coronavirus to some extent. I'll have John Calaparion, but we're not going to talk about basketball. We're going to talk about how this has affected his life, how it's going to affect sports, et cetera, et cetera.

There is another type of sports host, I think, who says, you know what America wants right now? They want Joe Burrow. They want Tua. They want, should Miami trade five number one picks? to get the number one overall pick. Pure escapism. I'm guessing that you and a lot of people probably fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum, where you say, I cannot pretend the coronavirus isn't happening right now. But people are tuning in here at least partly because they want to hear sports and they want to hear something else. I will give you this alternative, which I think

is fascinating about sports radio. There is a possibility here, and I've heard you do it on your show over these last few weeks where it's not that we're just talking about coronavirus. We're almost giving people an alternative to CNN and Fox News in a different way to consume it, right? It's filtered through a different mind. If you have callers, they're expressing kind of different kind of fear than maybe you hear on Andrew Cuomo every night or Chris Cuomo. Excuse me, I guess they're both on. But you're just getting a different kind of take, a different kind of way to process the virus than maybe you're going to. getting elsewhere in the world. You know, it's interesting. We both live in L.A. County. There's 10 million

people, 200 corona deaths, 40 from nursing homes, people who would not go back into the workforce. You know, one of the things I, but tourism will never be the same for the foreseeable future in the world we live in. Tourism is not going to be the same. The airline industries are not going to have the level of capacity, right, that they've had. We know that. So I do think it's important for the industries that can survive this. I think restaurants and tourism are going to take real hits, real unemployment. I think you could talk 30% of restaurants won't reopen. So I do believe we have reached a point. L.A. County, 10 million people, 200 deaths, 40 from nursing homes. Those people wouldn't go back into the workforce. We have to pivot now back into talking about

the economy. That's why I am pro-draft. Because if we can't do games, we have to absolutely do free agency. You know, do horse games on ESPN. There's going to be a handful of things that we can absolutely pivot to and do, so we must do those. That's my takeaway. Where would you land on that? So I always think it's important to distinguish between something being a, quote, unquote,

bad look or bad optics and something actually being bad. Right, right. And when I heard people criticizing the NFL for, you know, powering on with free agency, powering on for the draft, I never heard it get from bad optics to actually bad, right? What is bad at the end of the day about this? You know, is anybody, is anything being taken away from our energies about where we should be concentrating with medical professionals? No, of course it's not. I don't believe that's the case.

And I'd be the first one to say if it was. So, and I do think also, Colin, you could make the point when you're talking about people losing their jobs. There are a lot of sports media people losing their jobs right now. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And we need those people to keep their jobs, too, or at least keep them as long as they can. So if the NFL's silly season and all of this talk obviously is silly to some extent, but if that content in the universe keeps people working, then I'm all for it. I'm okay with it.

I mean, think about my former employer. They have a cruise line business dead. Theme park business, dead. NBA business, not playing. A movie theater business. So I work at Fox. So we don't have those businesses anymore. We sold off our movie production business, our movie business.

We don't have the NBA. We don't do cruise lines. We don't do theme parks. So my former employer is in the bullseye of this economically. I have friends that will lose their job. So to me, I want the NFL draft, even though it'll get a huge rating on now my rival network. Because I think when you have opportunities to do things and they're just, as you put, an optic issue, we have a responsibility. I honestly feel I've been optimistic on it.

But I do think social distancing works. My takeaway is I think my audience is looking for some optimism. What would you say as my program director is if I came to you and I said, Listen, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, it is a stream of hopelessness. I'm going to do hopeful for the next three months. What would your response be to that? Yeah, and I don't think there's necessarily a problem with that. And I think there's, you know, look, there's an obvious difference between optimism and hopefulness.

And then with some people, that gets into bad information, right? Where you're putting bad information and like, oh, don't worry about this. or oh, we should just all go back to work next week or something like that, which is clearly not going to be the case. But a hopeful tone, a way to kind of pull people out for X number hours a day, sure. I'd be all for them. By the way, at the Ringer, how have you guys covered it? Well, you know, I think Bill Simmons's example is really interesting in this, right? Because he was one of the early guys who said, look, there's no difference between sports and pop culture.

It's one big subject. So when something like this happens, you can just see, and we can just see, and we're just see. haven't stopped writing about sports, but you can just see pop culture kind of filling the void where sports would have been at this time of year. And it's funny, when I look at sports radio, I see the same thing happening, right? A lot of those shows were already doing TV recaps of HBO shows and talking about movie trailers and stuff. And that has just kind of filled in where that's changed.

And when you talk about ESPN, I think it's fascinating because one thing ESPN has really leaned into under the new regime is we are a sports network full stop. we don't really bring that other stuff in here unless, you know, it really has a sports angle. Well, what happened? There's no sports at all, right? So they're sort of left in this kind of funny, uncomfortable position of we have gone to great lengths to say, we are just sports. This is all you get here. You don't get anything where I'm going to let anything else creep in.

And now there's not, you really need stuff to creep in just to kind of make the day go by. It's weird. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself, about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overweigh.

The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays,

the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From, From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you. conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021.

And I'm Kunky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

MJ's documentary is going to two a week, 10 total, take five weeks. I think it's fascinating that LeBron James, who's always been chasing that ghost, will now be sitting home watching the worship for MJ be ratcheted up over the next two months because a lot of 20-year-olds who are very active on social media did not see Michael Jordan play life. They didn't. Many early 30-year-olds didn't. You and I did. So they're going to get their first introduction to the rock tour that was MJ.

And we've all had this sort of debate for the last four to five to seven years. MJ LeBron, who's better? I think as LeBron sits home, he's a very competitive guy. He acknowledges he's been chasing that ghost. I'm fascinated. I mean, if I was a critic, to watch the debate swing back toward Jordan due to the proliferation of Michael Jordan talk and Michael Jordan documentaries. and LeBron's sitting home watching it, is, will that be, I mean, maybe I just gave you a column. I was about to say, there you go.

It's, I, I, what is your takeaway on nothing else on TV except Jordan for the next month and a half? I'm fascinated by the way nostalgia works, right? That we can just forget somebody who, again, to you and I, is so much in the recent past. You know where I experience this is when people say, Tony Romo is the greatest announcer of all time? Tony Rome was really good, by the way. But I'm like, did we just forget John Madden, who retired 10 years? Do we forget John Madden, who was like a Johnny Carson-like presence on television for 30 years? And I can't believe Michael Jordan would ever slip into that zone.

But I think you're right. This is going to be the Thornburg of Sports Documentary. And you are old enough to get that reference, right? It is going to be something where everybody's just locked in. and it is fascinating to think that people go, oh, wait, this Michael Jordan guy we forgot about was great, and he is the greatest player of all time. And LeBron, and also, by the way, fascinating, just mentally, and this is, what if there isn't an NBA final this year? I think that's a pretty remote possibility, but it's at least a possibility somewhere on the board right now, right? So what if there isn't one, and it's just like we've been reading how Mike Trout now might not break the all-time home run record, not because he did.

anything wrong, but purely the season was taken away from them. Imagine how that plays in all this, where LeBron says, a chance for me to catch Jordan a little bit or at least get on to that podium, win a title with the Lakers. It was taken away from me because of a worldwide pandemic. How wild. Is there a sport to you, and I have my opinions, but I'll just ask it to you first, I think lots of sports could survive missing a season. is there one sport for you, college or pro, that if they could not play and skipped it,

there would be real punitive long-term damage? I think college football comes to mind just because it funds everything else in college. What was the Iowa State AD the other day who said it's going to be an ice age if we miss a college football season? Because you're not just talking about college football, right? College football would come back. But you're talking about the fact that all those sports that don't make money, at those other colleges, depend on college football raking in the TV dollars, right? That'd be number one on my list.

Yeah. It's really interesting you say that because, you know, I've, I'm not Jay Billis anti-NC-WA, but I also think all these, it's just an arms race. That's all this is now. It's just an arms race. And it's a lot of money wasted at universities, athletic departments, you know, just how many smoothie bars does Tennessee football need? You know what I mean? It's like, I think a lot of it's nonsense. But I will say this. I think college football is the only sport right now I wake up in the morning and I feel like perhaps under 50-50 because, Brian, you have to have school to have college football. My daughter's already admitted to me she's going to stay at my house for the next year and not go back to college. She's going to do online classes. If I said to you, I'm,

I'm over 50. I think NFL's 85, 15, NBA is 60-40, baseball, 55-45. College football, college sports. Where are your percentages on the leagues right now? Yeah, boy, I feel almost exactly the same as you. I feel the NFL with the lock

because it's just why would you ever bet against the NFL coming back in some form or another. But you're right, college is tricky. One, it's, you might not have college. And two, as you say with the amateurism thing or pseudo amateurism, however we

want to describe that, are you really going to be able to make those players come back in a way that NBA players come back, right? They're not receiving a check in the same way. Right. You know, so a real, and one of the whole bunch of them go, you know what, I don't want to do this. I don't feel safe doing this.

And let's say it's a couple of the big stars, right? What have we seen in the last couple years? A big star or two or ten say, you know, I don't want to play in this bowl game because I'm just going to blow up my knee and hurt my draft status. If that guy had a really good sophomore season that set him up for next year's draft, why would he be wanting to come back in that kind of environment for his junior year? Wouldn't that have crazy ramifications?

Yeah, you know, Brian, I have two friends who were recruiting coordinators around the country. Both have said the coronavirus, the kids are not going to leave their region. The best southern players will stay in the south. The best Western players will stay in the west. moms don't want to let their kids leave the region. So it is having an absolute impact in college football recruiting. You're going to see more players stay close 30 miles, 40 miles, 50 miles within home. Now, that's good news for the West because it's a very good year for recruiting.

And in recent years, Clemson, Bama, LSU, Ohio State have been poaching the West. So I think this is already having an impact. Brian Curtis joining us, the Ringer Editor-at-Large, host of the PressBock podcast. You know, what I worry about in the media going forward is that I do think blogs, small market radio, unique voices are really, really important. You and I have lived through shrinkage in print. We are seeing websites now shrinkage. We are seeing the magazine industry, ESPN the magazine. It's really going through a tough time.

My takeaway on this is media, guys like me will be fine. The ringer will be fine. Established people will survive. But if I said to you five years media landscape, do we have bloggers? Do we have magazines, Brian? I think it's going to be disastrous. So do I. Yeah, and I think that's the right word.

I think it's at a bunch of levels, right? One is these newspapers you talk about that have just been so short. read it over the years for a hundred different factors. All this is going to do is speed up all those things, right? And let's say there's a small town sports staff that has five sports riders right now, and they've already cut back thanks to furloughs, layoffs, whatever you want to say, to three right now. Is there any way at the end of this thing, at the end of the virus, at the end of the recession, whenever that is, they're going to come back to five? No, no. So you've just lost 40 percent, and you've lost 40 percent here and 40 percent here and 60 percent here and 70 percent.

in here. I just, I feel this business that we're in, and as you say, we're lucky, but it's become this, it's become more and more where it's like, oh, wow, it's not obvious that you can earn an income, a real income in this business, unless you're a handful of people. So what I think you're going to see is more of this kind of amateur thing. I have a full-time job as a lawyer or, you know, at a dot-com or whatever it is, and I do kind of a blog on the side. That's my thing. Yeah. Because I just, just don't see the pipeline. The pipeline was already horrible for somebody 22 out of college trying to get in to radio, writing, whatever it is. It's going to be so much worse at the end of the thing. I mean, just absolutely a different universe than even it is right now.

Brian Curtis, I'm watching a documentary a night. I watched an American Factory Tuesday night. Have you seen that? I haven't. Oh, my God. I loved it. Oh, my God. I loved it. It is just absolutely fascinating. Do you have one I can watch? Do you have any, what's a movie? I saw Anvisible Man, Wife Love That I Was So So. Anything, any documentary you've watched you could suggest. This is a little outside the box,

but there was a documentary last year called Scandalous that came out about the National Enquirer. Okay, we've seen the National Inquirer kind of in the news. The first 40, 50 minutes of that about the National Inquirer's 70s and 80s heyday, OJ, Elvis, John Belushi, all that stuff. you will love it because they have the reporters how they got the news, how they squeezed people for those scoops. I thought it was awesome. Put it on your list.

Brian Curtis. You know, Bill came on the show recently. That was very nice of him. He came for 30 minutes. He was fantastic. So Bill and I have men some sort of olive branch, and that makes me happy. And continued success. The article was terrific. It's called How Sports Radio hosts have become grief counselors. A lot of stuff about Mike Francesa in there, the kind of iconic New York host. and my friend Paul Feinbaum, who does, his show has always had a little more serious tone, but perhaps even more so now. So check that out at The Ringer. Brian, it's a pleasure to talk to you.

Thanks, Colin. Stay safe. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, ref, my mom, I'm going to want you.

to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown, And explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier.

We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. One of the things I like about my Saturday podcast is I just like to hear different opinions. I'll bring on Nick Wright and Jason Whitlock, politically, ideologically, the opposite. That's why I like doing this show.

I've said before, I love Bill Maher, but I can listen to Ben Shapiro. I'm interested in information. Last week I had on Andy Slavitt, who worked for Barack Obama, some people think he's a little alarmist. My next guest, Clay Travis, is getting some heat because people think he's downplaying the virus. And I've said before, I'm kind of in the middle on it. I do think social distancing is a real key,

but I don't think we should wreck the economy for if you take out nursing home deaths, people that would not go back to the workforce, 13,000 deaths in a country of 330 million people. So I do think we need to now pivot to real conversations about working our way with masks and social distancing back to work here in the next couple of weeks. So Clay Travis joins me outkick the coverage. When people push back and say, you are down playing this, what would be your response? I try to use data to come up with opinions in situations like these.

So from the get-go, when the coronavirus started to be discussed in the United States, I wanted to look to what had happened in Asia as a rough approximation of what might happen in the United States and elsewhere. And I looked at what happened in China, Singapore, South Korea, Japan, all of those countries, Hong Kong, all of those places reported that they had managed to shut down the coronavirus. with a relatively small loss of life and outside of China without a substantial amount of death. When I looked at those numbers initially, I took China's numbers as being honest because they had been endorsed by the World Health Organization. Subsequent to that, it now appears that China has wildly understated the number of people that actually contracted the disease and that may have died of the disease,

such that there are likely tens of thousands of people who died of the coronavirus in China. So that suggests now if we had that data from the get-go back in February, January, March early on, that likely Europe and the United States would have responded differently. Right. Because the fear then is different than what we saw. Now, to be fair, South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, all of those countries were able to shut down the outbreak with minimal cost, but I think that's because they didn't trust China. They may have better sources on the ground than China. They may have recognized that what China was putting out into the world was

inaccurate. But when I looked at the numbers initially, I said, okay, China has 80,000 cases or whatever number they initially said, you know, 3,000-ish people died. To me, that sign was, okay, even if 80,000 people get it, and even not knowing that it's going to arise, the United States is going to be able to keep those numbers down. So what I said early on based on Asia was I said, look, I think we're unlikely to have thousands of people die in the United States. I don't think it's going to be that bad. And also that if you looked at the numbers in Asia, that it was likely that we would have less people die of the coronavirus than die of the flu. So people have gotten upset because they've gone back and they've looked at it. And they said, oh, well, you said you didn't think there were

going to be thousands of people dying. Yeah, that's because I relied on China. But I was still, it looks like, going to be right that the cost of the coronavirus is going to be less than the cost of many years in this country of the flu. And so, you know, there are a lot of people out there at the time peddling this idea, oh, 2 million plus people are going to die of the coronavirus in the United States. The CDC had 1.7 million. Yeah. Yeah. And so I looked at that and I said there's no data to support that the United States is going to respond to this so much worse than Asia did. and that sooner or later we would get control of the epidemic.

So that's the background from my perspective. So, yes, there were the people out there who were peddling what I called fear porn. Millions of people were going to die. And I looked at the data from Asia and said, I don't think this is likely. I wish I had had or we had known that China was lying because then that would have adjusted the numbers. But still, even with China lying and even with me relying on their numbers, I'm still far closer to an accurate prediction than the people who said millions of people are going to die. And so the thing that I've said, Colin, I think this is an interesting question, either, and this is one of two things,

either people who said millions of people are going to die have to acknowledge one of two things. Either A, their models were wildly inaccurate, and it was never going to be millions of people who died, or B, the White House Corona Task Force, headed up by Mike Pence with Donald Trump as president, has been so wildly successful that they have saved millions of lives by the actions that they've undertaken. I think the truth is somewhere in between there, but I think it's not a surprise that on social media, many people run to bipolar regions, and that sort of explains my line of thinking throughout, and now it's kind of interesting to me. People are upset at me because I think my numbers are going to end up being far more accurate

than the people who said millions are going to die. And look, the thing that disappoints me, and this has been the case for a long time, is if you have a non-mob-based opinion, whatever the opinion may be, you get shouted down. And people are like, oh, you don't care about people dying. No, no, no, no. I just believe in the marketplace of ideas. I think we should have real debates. It's not just me who said things like this. Stanford epidemiologists have, Harvard epidemiologists have, Oxford epidemiologists have, Oxford epidemiologists have, the head of infectious disease, I believe, down.

in Australia. These are all highly trained, highly intelligent people who looked at the data and said millions of people aren't going to die, but their opinions did not get shared. The opinions of the worst case scenario got shared. And I think as a result, we've had a difficult response public policy-wise where, you know, from the get-go, I've said, look, you have to consider the economic response of a shutdown like this. And I don't think we really have in a very intelligent fashion. Well, you know, the only thing I ever predicted early, I said, this is going to be a spring, summer thing, not a three-month thing. It's going to last a long time. And the second thing I've said is social distancing works. Outside of that, I don't know much. I do know that

once we hit a peak, then it becomes managing this. Yes. We lose 47,000 people a year to suicide. We don't solve it. We manage it. And so I think once the peak is done in a week or two, or never that is. Could be six days, could be 13 or 26. Then we start managing it. Here, I'll throw an interesting scenario. So Dana White had to cancel a UFC fight. Why? Because he was hosting it in Fresno or near Fresno. And the California governor, Gavin Newsom, called Disney. Disney owns ESPN, which owns the UFC, right? And so California, the governor puts pressure on Bob Iger or Disney, whoever now makes the decisions for Disney. Disney calls Dana White and says, pull it. Dana White comes out and says, this has been confirmed, by the way, that Gavin Newsom called Disney.

New York Times confirmed it, reported it. And Dana confirmed that, quote, the highest powers here canceled it, meaning Gavin Newsom and Disney. Disney, of course, runs ESPN. My takeaway on that is, okay, but what happens in two months when the ESPN, which is going to lose 500 million without an NBA season, then calls Gavin Newsom for a favor and says, we want to do Laker Clipper game. no fans in the Staples Center. We did you a solid. Can you do us a solid? Because my feeling is California,

and I love living here, and we have a super smart progressive governor. Most West Coast governors are progressive, left-leaning. But will they be overly protective going forward when we have to reboot the economy? So your takeaway on the UFC cancellation, you know, Pac-12 football is going to get no support from Gavin Newsom. I do believe southern governors would back the SEC season.

Talk about the provincialism and the unique situation some states are in. So many different interesting angles there. Let me start with this. I applaud Dana White for trying to get the UFC on television so people can consume it, right? It would be easy for Dana White to kick up his heels, for him to go down to his mansion. I'm sure he's got an incredible place in Las Vegas. do what a lot of famous and rich people are doing, which is just ride out the coronavirus in a sort of gilded mansion and not really worry about trying to get fights going or trying to get the

UFC up and running. So I applaud him for being intuitive, for being aggressive, for being smart, you know, this whole fight island idea, even the idea of getting a location on tribal lands, which would theoretically allow him to get this done for the UFC. I applaud him for taking action there. I do think this is likely to turn into politics as we try to determine when the return date is going to be. And you mentioned the fact that California, and I think you're right, Washington and Oregon, whoever runs those states has done a good job keeping the infections down. Yeah. Those are, I know that I don't know who the governor is of Oregon. I'm assuming he's a Democrat. Gavin Newsom, obviously, and also Jay Inslee and Washington Democrats.

But also the numbers in the West Coast states are not that much different than the numbers in huge southern states with Republican governors like Texas and Florida, right? When you look at the overall infection and death rates, they're not going to be that much difference. So there has been a good response, I think, unique to on the boots on the ground knowledge from mayors and governors, in addition to the way the White House has responded overall. I think if you consider the start at $2 million, now we're going to end up at $50,000, $60,000 at most, whatever that number is going to be. That is a testament to how the nation as a whole has responded. But I agree. with you. I think it's possible, for instance, that California adopts a really, really aggressive

take on this and says, we're not going to allow football to take place in our state. And I could see somebody in Texas waving their hand and being like, wait a minute, we got this huge place down in San Antonio. We'll let the Rams and the Chargers come down to San Antonio and play in Texas for a year. Yep, yep. I can see. Now, it's more tougher for the colleges because they're located in their state institutions and all those things. And I think you're right on the Pact 12. But I can definitely see San Antonio. In fact, there's probably people in San Antonio working on it already saying, hey, let's keep our eyes on what's going to happen with the chargers and the Rams and also the 49ers. We want to get one or two of these teams to play

in our venue. Now, also, Colin, this is going to be complicated because you know well. In Englewood, they got SoFi Stadium that they are building. And they want to use that venue. And I feel like so much of the of the predictions, especially for the fall, this thing is evolving so rapidly. I mean, we're talking right now on what is today. We're leading into the weekend at April 10th or 11th or whatever the heck it is. It was only a month ago that Rudy Gobert came down with the coronavirus. And think about all the things that have happened in the 30 some odd days since then. Yeah. It's been wildly changing in terms of the overall impact of how things have shaken down. And so I think as you look forward and try to contemplate what it's going to be like on May 11th or June 11th or God forbid September 10th, I think, which is when the NFL season is going to come back, that is so far into the future.

If you look at the IHME model right now, which is the one everybody is citing, they basically are saying nobody in the country is going to be dying by June 1. Now, there's the possibility this thing could cycle back up as the weather gets colder like many viruses do. and maybe in November and December, things could change in the country. But for the summer, I think it's likely, if you look at the models in June and July and August and September, when things are still warm, that it's relatively unlikely that there's going to be a major amount of death from the coronavirus or infection from the coronavirus that's going on. Yeah, it's interesting. Even with the temperature, I saw an article the other day where the headline said, temperatures don't matter. then you read the article, and it clearly stated, temperatures matter, but not as significantly as some point to. Because higher temperatures and warm weather usually stem some of the growth.

I would also point out that we've seen, for instance, it's hard somewhat to know because the infection rate in, let's say, Florida, has definitely been impacted by the number of New Yorkers that have gone from New York, where they may have gotten the virus and gone down to Florida where they've been test positive for the virus. So knowing where the virus is originating is obviously a big part of all of this. And certainly the biggest outbreak by far in the country has been New York, but many other places have had New Yorkers who have moved in Florida is the number one location for that. So again, I would just look at it if you look at the data on Florida, Texas, which are, you know, Ron DeSantis and the governor of Texas, whose name I'm forgetting, but actually went to Vanderbill Law School where I did. So I should definitely not be forgetting his name. But they're Republicans.

and they've had a good response and a good success. And certainly in Ohio, DeWine is a Republican. So I think in general, what I would like to believe is that we've had a fairly nonpartisan success across the board with trying to stamp this thing down. The best way to do that going forward is going to turn, I think, into a big political hand grenade. Because I think that Trump and some Republicans are going to be more inclined to want to get the country back to work. And I think some Democrats are going to say, no, no, no, we can't. stop what we're doing now because we risk a further outbreak. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments, the moment, that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls,

we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Destin. Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me care gains is we have real conversations about healing growth fatherhood pressure and purpose on my new podcast learn the hard way open your free iHeart radio app search learn the hard way and listen now what's up guys this is cliver taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man.

They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives' show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game.

As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. By the way, let's go politics just for fun because we're both busy guys, and this is our Saturday podcast. And last time we did some politics. So let me give you my theory. I never bought into Bernie Sanders and here's why. Bernie's into revolutions. Women are powerful voters in America.

Women do not believe in revolutions. Women are about coalitions. Our wives build, you know, I mean, your wife, my wife. They build networks through our kids, in our communities. Women have a medical issue. They create race for the cure. There is no race for the prostate. We don't do that.

Bernie Sanders is all about a revolution. Elizabeth Warren, to a lesser degree, was about a revolution. There's been so much tumult with Trump. I don't think people want a revolution. I think they want is boring. Joe Biden is mostly, we know Joe Biden. We're comfortable. He doesn't, you know, he'd rather.

not have debates. So Biden separates because to some, he's the anti-Trump. Whereas Bernie, there was a Trump-like, you know, clean the swamp. Bernie bros, people just don't want all this tumult in their life. So I think Biden is the antidote to that, right? He is a little lower key. I mean, he's got his controversies, but he doesn't want debates. So you and I both very early on, felt that Biden would be the guy. That is my theory why Biden won. The minute he got momentum in South Carolina, it's really truly what everybody wanted,

which was a low-key candidate. That's my theory. What is your theory on why Biden won and what are his chances going forward? I thought initially it was going to be Biden because all the things that you just said. Biden, to me, is the anti-Trump. and he's a guy who will take this election is going to come down to the big 10 states.

There's going to be a lot of noise about, oh, who's going to win Texas or Georgia or, you know, we're expanding the map and everything else. Ultimately, I believe, come November, the determination of this election is going to come down to, you tell me who's going to win, Pennsylvania, Michigan. I'm not even sure Ohio is going to be that tight of a race, but we'll see what happens in Ohio. Wisconsin, maybe Minnesota, if there's going to be an expansion of the race there, depending on who Vice President Biden is going to pick as his nominee, as his running mate. And so the Big Ten is going to decide this.

And this, I don't think gets enough attention. Donald Trump won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania by 77,000 total votes. Isn't that incredible? Amazing. That's less than the number of people who go to the big house to watch a game in Michigan. Less than the number of people who go to Beaver Stadium to watch a game in Penn State. Less than the number of people who go to Camp Randall in Wisconsin to watch a Wisconsin. Wisconsin game. That is crazy. So one Big Ten football stadium decided three different states in the

Big Ten. So I think it's going to come down to that. And so when you look at, when you look at, you know, kind of the data, I would be stunned if it's anything other than what happens in the Big Ten states deciding this election. Because the places that voted for Trump and the places that voted for Hillary, 90% of them, maybe even 100% of them, are going to break the exact same way come the election in 2020. And so I love sort of following this. And look, I was anti-Bernie very much. And so when the Tennessee primary happened on Super Tuesday here,

we have open primary. I can go in and I can vote in the Republican primary or I can vote in the Democratic primary. We don't have, you know, a defined party that you're a member of. And I voted in the Democratic primary for Joe Biden because I wanted to vote against Bernie Sanders. and I would have voted for Donald Trump against Bernie Sanders. And I'm not troubled.

I know we've talked about this off the air. I'm genuinely not troubled by Biden versus Trump because I think that we're not going to get that revolution. Yeah, no, I'm the same way. The way I look at it is America's spoken. We're not into the young candidates, Mayor Pete, Kamala Harris, Betta O'Rourke. The country rejected those. We're not into the revolution candidates, Elizabeth Warren, and Bernie. he Sanders. We're into these, you know, part of the country is into Trump who's pro business,

and then part of the country just wants less tumult, right? Less chaos. So I think there are two clear choices here and whoever you want to vote for, vote for. I think the way to beat Trump, if you're Biden, and I think you're right, I think if you beat Trump, if you're Biden, the thing, let me go back a step, you were talking about Bernie and Trump. A lot of people who are political experts are blown away by the fact that in New Hampshire, for instance, there are a lot of people who are deciding before they go vote in the primary, am I going to vote for Bernie or am I going to vote for Trump? Because they find that to be crazy. But that is an emotional response. Bernie wanted, and provokes that response among his diehards, much like Trump does. I don't think you out-anger

Donald Trump, right? And so I think Joe Biden's best angle in order to beat Trump, if I were sitting down trying to advise him, I would say, you don't try to make Donald Trump into the worst human being who's ever existed. You beat him by saying, I think Trump has done some things that have made sense for the country, but I think I can do a better job. Not like he's the worst president that's ever existed, because people who believe that already are going to vote for Joe Biden, right? The way you appeal to people who are in the middle part of the country that are open to being Democrats or Republicans is by saying, you know what, Trump wasn't a completely unmitigated disaster that will upset the left wing, but it will appeal to the middle and just say, hey, I think I can do better. I'm not saying,

he's an awful human being. I'm not saying he's the worst president of all time. I just think I can do a better job. That to me is the way Biden wins, not by trying to out anger Donald Trump, by trying to be the evuncular grandfather candidate who's going to make peace at Thanksgiving table.

He's going to keep all the younger kids from yelling at each other. Yeah, the steady hand, the adult who's got a history of foreign affairs, you know, under Obama, the economic recovery, he's steady. We have memories fondly, many moderates, myself included, of Obama. We overcame a virtual depression at one point. It was possible. We didn't get there, but we could have. So I have very positive memories of Joe Biden. I do worry about what appears to be some cognitive decline. I think that's a big issue. Yes. So I think debates are not the friend of Biden. And he may get a break here on the virus, and we can't have debates. But, All right, Clay Travis, see, this is what I like. I like discussions.

Outkick the coverage, his most recent book, Republicans by Sneakers 2. He's kicking butt. Lock it in, Outkick.com, all sorts of stuff. Big news coming up on that site, and you'll hear that, oh, in the next 30 to 45 days. Clay, great talking to you. Hey, appreciate it. Always enjoy it. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, Clay Travis, joining us today. And earlier, we had Brian Curtis, of course, from The Ringer. So a very nice Saturday podcast from this point. forward. We're going to try to do 45 minute to an hour podcast with a couple of guests. Why am I doing that? We're going through tough times. My company is. Any additional podcasting length I can do creates opportunities through revenue. And if that saves jobs, I'm all for it. I don't mind putting in the time. So I may add a half dozen podcasts, maybe three or four more. I don't know. It's up to whatever my company can sell. But I think we're all

kind of end this thing together, right? It's a cliche. But we're going to double the length of our Saturday podcast, give you a second guest, and it creates some opportunities for our company that can hopefully stem off some of the really bad economic news. We're all going to deal with going forward. So, yeah, yeah. I mean, can we be clear here? We're all bored out of our minds anyway. Hell, even if you don't like me, it's something, right? Saturday you're having coffee. You know, you're reading your local paper, petting the dog and thinking to yourself, how do I burn 14 hours until I go to Netflix tonight before I go to bed? Anyway, have a great weekend. Be safe. See you Monday.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kier Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really

not safe to have anywhere, but you're having him with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart. Podcasts. Guaranteed human.