The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Saturday Special with Ethan Strauss and Duke Manyweather

Episode Date: April 18, 2020

 In this exclusive podcast Colin first talks with Ethan Strauss of the Athletic and author of the new book 'The Victory Machine' which chronicles the rise and fall of the Warriors dynasty. They discuss why Kevin Durant will not be happy with the book and which personalities on the team meshed and which ones didn'tColin then talks with Duke Manyweather, one of the most respected offensive line coaches in the country about what players on the o-line most impress him in the NFL. They also talk about all of the top prospects in the 2020 NFL draft and which ones he thinks will have the most immediate impact Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Saturday morning podcast. I hope you have a good weekend planned. A lot of isolation. But the social distancing thing does appear to be giving us some great momentum going forward. Crossing my fingers on the NFL NBA seasons, baseball seasons. I got buddies of the MLS. I hope that gets going to two in June or July.

As I told you last week, we're going to extend our Saturday podcast from one interview to two. There's a lot of binge podcast listening. Frankly, I'm listening to more podcasts than I ever have in my life. And I just think if I can help my company a little bit and give you something else to listen to, we're going to do it. And so we'll put in all sorts of different guests today. Two guests I really think have fascinating stories. Our second guest is the most popular private football coach in America over the last two to three years. He's an offensive line coach from Humboldt State. And he's got a fascinating story.

And if you have a team that's going to draft an offensive tackle in the first couple of rounds, we'll ask him about the prospects. But I'm going to start our Saturday morning podcast out with a young man who is very talented, who covered the current and now extinguished NBA dynasty, the Golden State Warriors. Well, we don't have many dynasties in American sports. Patriots had, I think, a couple of them. There's a documentary coming up tomorrow on Michael Jordan.

They had a dynasty. And the Golden State Warriors, it was one that comes to mind. At the college level, they're almost built for dynasties. College football, Clemson, Alabama. Best teams get the first draft pick. But in the professional sports realm, trying to, as a commissioner, create parity, the best teams get the worst draft picks, or hopefully. Ethan Strauss writes for the athletic based in Oakland.

He has what they're calling a very clear-eyed expose, revealing the team's culture with the Warriors, its financial ambitions, its struggles, and the price that its players and managers have paid for all their winning. Ethan Strauss does a remarkable job. I've followed him for years on Twitter. The book is called The Victory Machine. the making and unmaking of the Warriors dynasty. First of all, thanks for coming on.

I love books like this. I can't wait to get it. I've read a couple of excerpts, including the one with you and KD, and it was at times a hostile relationship. So, Ethan, let me start with this. Let's start with Joe Lacob, the owner. Because owners have a great influence on franchises. So when I look at the Warriors, I see a bunch of smart people.

So that tells me Lakeb is secure enough in himself to surround himself with really smart people. That's my takeaway not knowing him. What kind of man is he? So that's true. And I guess what I find interesting about Lakub is that he is almost a caricature. He's almost like Daniel Plain Dew from There Will Be Blood, just ruthless capitalist, no empathy.

But yet, even though he lacks a certain emotional intelligence, it seems as though he can see it in others, in the people he hires who need to have that emotional intelligence. So even though Joe Lakers Bob Myers, very emotionally intelligent guy, he hires Steve Kerr, very emotionally intelligent, and he hires Rick Welts to be his president, very emotionally intelligent. So he lacks something, but he can see what he lacks in others, and I think that was very important to the building of this dynasty. Mark Jackson, they segue to Steve Kerr.

Steve gets a ton of credit for it. I think Steve's one of the smartest guys I've ever met. I think he was a nice player of great broadcaster, great coach, and at least a very, very capable general manager. How stressful. Let's talk about Steve taking over the team, initial championship. Then KD adds another element. Have you seen Steve Kerr go through some tumult personally? He had a really severe surgery, I think a back surgery at one time.

We don't talk about the coach much unless it's Phil Jackson when it comes to dynasties in the NBA. We talk about the players. What's Steve Kerr's last six years been like? Oh, I think it's been stressful. I think it's been, you know, you see presidents at the end of the four-year term. And I think he doesn't regret any of it. And he likes being in the mix and he likes being competitive. And he always wanted to be a coach.

I mean, that's what's interesting about Kerr to me is that he's a guy who always envisioned himself. becoming a coach, even more so than the player. And he loved playing. Everybody who plays loves playing. But this was what he wanted to do. But coaches are crazy, Colin. They're sick in a way. They're addicted to a certain misery.

And you even wonder why they come back. Some of these guys who wind up on TV and have the coocious job, they come back to coaching. And so I think it was really difficult. And including what happened health-wise is it wasn't just the back surgery. the back surgery was botched in a way and he leaked cerebral spinal fluid and it's frankly the thing he's a candid guy it's one of the main things you just won't talk about maybe in the future he'll open up about it but he does not like to discuss what happened there and the amount of pain it caused

his life and just causing him to miss playoff games in the way it did so I think it's been a very trying half decade for Steve Curry even with all the success um Steve is a highly um functional, empathetic, curious, all the good qualities of people. I would guess that he and Steph connect. I think Steph is one of the not just purely most cerebral players of my life. I think he has a security in himself, a self-esteem that is significantly higher than even great players. I would guess Kerr and Steph, really, there's some Sepatico here, but I could see Steve Kerr

struggling with KD and struggling with Draymond. And at times, perhaps not connecting as deeply with a quieter Clay Thompson. Is the Kerr-Curry dynamic the strongest amongst the roster? I think it might be the Kerr-Clay dynamic. I think coaches love Clay. Clay is no drama. Plug and play. He doesn't need the ball.

He'll be effectively an assassin, as was said. by a former assistant coach Darren Ehrman, a sniper who does what you tell him to do every single time carries it out to a T. And so I think it just presents less issues for Kerr versus always trying to figure out the proportion of how often the step need the ball. How often does he do pick and roll? And you got to remember with Steph, look, to be clear, Steve, insanely thankful for Steph Curry, but coaches are coaches, and they're always going to have their frustrations.

and Steph is like Brett Farr's. He takes risks. He does things out there that he's almost playing with the game, and he badly wants to win, but he'll throw those behind the back passes. He'll just take crazy shots. And so that will always get on Kerr's nerd. And also he'll foul. You'll just foul.

That's a constant frustration. Ethan, he can get so sloppy in critical points of games. I can see where it drives Kerr nuts. Yeah. And so Clay is the good soldier, I think, is just the easiest for Kerr. Steph. There's always a little bit of inks to that, even if it's a good relationship overall. And obviously, Draymond and KD, there was the most friction there. When Steph was recruited by KD, it's like any flirtation or relationship, there's a honeymoon period. And it's well documented, and we can get into this, that KD over time felt, it was Steph's team. And that at some level creates some, if not, it creates some friction. It may just be emotional.

It may not be communicated between the two. But was there a moment early in the KD. Steff relationship where they were perhaps still in the honeymoon period, but you noticed it wasn't ideal. There was fissures there. Yeah. I think the back and forth over shoes, which a lot of fans who aren't in the shoes, might regard as a side show.

But these players, you got to wonder, are they sneaker salesmen first? I mean, these companies, these companies often pay them more money. LeBron says, I'm lifetime with Nike, lifetime. He's not saying that with any of his NBA teams. He's on what, his fourth NBA team? He's only at Nike ever since he was a teenager. So in a way, this is their primary business, and KD was taking shots at Steph's shoes. I think he took some shots in the Jimmy Kimmel show.

maybe on the Bill Simmons podcast. And that was early on, and you've got to remember, it's crazy to think about. But you look at Under Armour stock price. There is a before and after when Steph was the guy playing for MVP's versus when he recruited KD. That really hit that multinational company hard. So there is a sacrifice potentially of billions of dollars that Steph Curry made for the sake of the Warriors and for the sake of winning that held Nike and herd Under Armour. And that was something in the backdrop,

but maybe even in the foreground of the whole dynamic. There's an excerpt from the fantastic book. It's getting great reviews, The Victory Machine, the making and unmaking of the Warriors Dynasty. And you're listening to Ethan Sherwood Strauss from The Athletic based in Oakland on our Saturday morning podcast, the Eve of the MJ documentary, which is why I think the discussion of dynasties is so timely.

So you detail in some depth, great depth, that you and KD went off the rails, and he was suspicious of you and critical of you. Did it start out favorably? Yes, yeah. He's somebody, I mean, when he's in a good mood, he is so engaging to talk to. And I would tell him that it's funny that you're so critical of sports pundits and talk. and talk radio hosts because it's really the ideal job for you. I mean, he would do a great job, host, and drive time. He's got all kinds of takes, not just basketball,

though he knows basketball very, very well, but all kinds of sports, and he's quite studied, especially about the NBA, so he'll say things that might not have occurred to you, or he's talking about the scouting report on a guy. I mean, he's a very engaging guy to talk to when it's not the last season of that Warriors dynasty. and the relationship hasn't gone south.

So, yeah, it began, it did begin quite favorably. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hard way with me. your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? this is Clifford Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clivert show on the Eyeheartedly. radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through

life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own.

I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that Ness was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard, you know? Well, that's lighting.

They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, it is. I always thought it was interesting. And maybe I should ask this later.

But Lee Jenkins once called him a wander. And I think that explains a lot. He didn't feel loved enough in Oklahoma City, Westbrook getting too much love. So then he goes to San Francisco. where the Star Guard is even more loved than Westbrook, and now he leaves Steph, a great teammate, to go to Kyrie Irving, who grew up liking the Nets. It's almost like, I think Lee Jenkins nailed it.

He's a bit of a wanderer, and he keeps wandering into relationships that are fraught with potential peril. You know, how would you sum up, you know, KD. Wanderer. Is that accurate to you? Colin, it's so accurate that I actually saw when Lee Jenkins was on your show saying that, and it's in the book, because I thought it

captured it perfectly. I thought it nailed it. Yeah, he's searching for something. There is a void there, and he's looking to fill the void, and perhaps when the situation is blamed, it's really a blaming of the symptom and not the disease. Could you blame using that word Steve Kerr for not after the KD. Dremont spat, which clearly there was just this. People forget.

people forget. What do they say? They never forget. They forgive but never forget. Could you criticize Kerr for not immediately sensing that KD. Dremont spat was too personal, had crossed a line. Is that a fair criticism? Or did Steve try to make men fences with those two? I think you try to mend fences. If I'm going to criticize Kerr, it would be a lineup decision. I think the team did what it could do at that point to get. everybody on the same page, insofar as they could be gotten on the same page to compete for a championship, and they came really close. But there was no way, I believe, that they could have salvaged the relationship going forward.

Katie already had a foot out the door. That's why they were fighting. It's because he was gone. That's why Draymond was yelling at him. So I don't view it as a situation where Draymond chased him out of town. I view it as a situation where Katie had already detached. He was already out of town, and that pissed Draymond off. that's what caused that whole blowup.

When you cover a dynasty, it is unrealistic not to, I mean, we'll see this in the documentary with Jordan. There's egos everywhere. Coaches want credit, stars want credit. I mean, good God, I can remember. I knew the trainers during the Lakers dynasty. You know the PA announcer during Jordan's Bulls run. Give me some players on the periphery of this, like an Andre Iguodala. We know there's a KD and a Steph and a clay and a Draymon.

Did players ever take sides, an Andre Iguodala with Steph or with KD? Was there ever a fissure in the locker room in the last year when clearly everybody, according to you and others, knew it was over. Even the Warriors knew it was over. Did players less powerful players, popular players, do they start picking sides? I don't think they started picking sides because KD was just his own side. He had really gone off and sort of floated away. And so there was no side to take against him.

And he was so great. I mean, the respect, there's something interesting here where, A, the other players, they don't dislike him. They want him to be happy. It's not like a Barry Bond situation where he's just completely prickly and you hear all these stories. Everybody prefacees whatever they're saying about him before they complain with he's not a bad guy. So they didn't hate him and they had this immense respect for what he could do on the court. Huge.

I think players respect size. I mean, that's this weird subplot where if you talk to players, they'll say Katie's better than Steph for the most part. and I think part of that, I don't know if that's true or not, but I think part of that is if Steph gets you, he fakes you out in a way and you tell yourself as a player, oh, okay, I won't fall for that next time. And maybe you will fall for that next time, but that's just tell yourself. KD, he just shoots over you, you can't block it,

you shrug and you go, that's impossible. And that's, so players have this immense respect on the team for what he could do. They just really wanted him to be happier and to lock in, and they were invested in that project more than perhaps being angry at him and hating him. And it was almost amazing to me in a way that he could maintain that, and you could maintain that sympathy with all the dramas that the team was getting put through. Ethan Strauss, the athletic. He's got a new book.

It's called The Victory Machine, The Making and Unmaking of the Warriors Dynasty. Mark Jackson is a man of deep religious conviction. San Francisco, and it always feels a tad more agnostic to me. It's very independent thinking in the country, San Francisco, even with the virus, shut things down first. It's an independent city. It's not part, and I mean this as a compliment, it's not part of the collective. It's always been very, very unique, architecturally, artistically, just culturally.

And I look at that, and I say to myself, when Mark Jackson left, it wasn't that he was fired. It always felt like they didn't respect him and that they sort of rolled their eyes sometimes. And I always, my gut feeling was they kind of look at the God thing and kind of shrug and roll their eyes. Is that, am I whiffing on that? Am I reaching? But I felt like Kerr was such a different thinker. He was, he fit San Francisco's sort of.

identity better than Mark Jackson did. I think that you're right about that and it was a cultural mismatch in a way. But it wasn't the entire story of why it all broke down, although it's part of the story. Because Mark, he had a preacher's job, he had his own church in L.A. And when he took the Warriors' job, he went, okay, well, I still got to go back down to L.A. and do services on Sundays. And the Warriors went, what? it didn't occur to them that Mark would cherish his job before taking the warrior's job,

his job as a preacher, so much that he would maintain it as a part-time job while being a coach. That did not compute for Joe Lake of and everybody else with the Warriors who were saying, no, it's got to be 24-7, 365. So in a way, it got off on the wrong foot just with that cultural mismatch right there, and that was a subplot in the whole dynamic going sour. Was there a warrior player initially loyal to Mark and not to Steph? Loyal to Mark and not to Staff. Or not, my bad.

Loyal to Mark and not to Steve Kerr, my bad. Loyal to Mark and not to Steve Kerr. Oh, I'm sure. Okay, so that's a good question. I would say that Draymond was somebody who was very much empowered by Mark Jackson and turned into something of an emotional leader. and obviously it wasn't that way with Kerr, even though ironically his career flourished under Kerr. But you have to remember, it flourished because David Lee got hurt in training camp in Kerr's for a season.

And so, and so Draymond got the shot. It's never been an instance where Steve Kerr pulls Dramont aside and says, I believe in you more than anybody else. And so here you go, new role. It was more just circumstantial. And so there's just always been a fraught dynamic there between Kerr and between Draymond. Covering a dynasty, I would imagine far more highs than lows. You leave the arena with a win.

People are in good moods. Was there ever a stretch when it was not as elevated? Not as fun, where it was intense. Was it for you during the KD and you public spat or at the press conference? He said, you don't know me. You don't know what makes me happy. And he was talking to you. Was that the ugly moment and weak?

or were there times that it was not burdensome, but difficult to cover a star-studded dynasty? Yeah, it was all of those things. And also, I don't want to get too much into my travails because, let's face it, fans don't care. They don't care how happy I am or how stressful it is for me. But it gave me some insight into what these guys go through. You know, to be part of the news when I was called out in that press conference, and I'm watching people on TV argue with each other about whether or not I'm good at my job, thought to myself, man, this isn't emotionally healthy. I mean, how are these guys not insane?

I mean, this isn't a normal thing. You can think about it in the abstract. Somebody can say, hey, turn your phone off. Well, that doesn't work when every second cousin you have is texting you that, hey, this guy said something good about you, this guy said something bad about you, and your emotions are rising and falling with that. To me, it really just revealed that being famous right now sucks. It's not good. And again, it's just. gave me more sympathy for KD, even if I think that he wasn't handling it great, it made me understand that, hey, when Adam Silver is at the Sloan conference and he's saying that the modern superstars are all miserable, a shocking admission by a commissioner, by the way, that he's not joking around. I mean, this is a real thing. The technology is real, and the issues are real. Have you talked to KD since he departed? I did. There's a text exchange in the chapter that he tells KD where,

hey, I've got to do due diligence and reach out to him for the book. He was not exactly thrilled to be partied to that project, is what I would say. Ethan Sherwood Strauss is joining us. You know, the book is obviously not about this season. But when you look back at the book, how do you think it will be received by the current warriors? And for that matter, Katie. Well, yeah, Katie reads everything. I don't think he'll like it very much.

The Warriors, I think they'll be grousing on, you know, they think this much, this is too foregrounded, this is too backgrounded, I think I have another GM saying that Steph was shopped around. I know that the Warriors disagree with that perspective. But there's something interesting about dynasties in the NBA that's different from the other sports. You mentioned the Patriots. It seems like in the NBA we are more drawn to the fall from a literary perspective than the Rye. The rise is something we can all just appreciate as the basketball that we enjoy in our living rooms. And yeah, we'll read about it. And yeah, we'll hear a takes on it.

But we're fascinated by why it falls apart. You know, David Halversham breaks of the game. It's not about the Portland Trailblazers winning the championship. It's about what happens afterwards. When we talk about Jack and Kobe, we're not talking about how great they played together. More often we're talking about, wow, why couldn't those egos get along? Why did it fall apart? And then you take it to everybody gathering around their TVs on Sunday and watching the last dance and watching the Bulls.

We're fascinated by the last dance. We're more fascinated by that than the beginning of it. That seems very specific to the NBA for whatever reason. Yeah, I think a lot of times in the NFL, perhaps, a dynasty ends because of injuries, which are not as interesting and glamorous. And in the NBA, it ends because of ego, which is, of course, fascinating and creates great stories and mythologies. So when NBA Shaq and Kobe break up, we want the story. It's like a Hollywood divorce. You know what I mean?

And I think the NBA, I've always felt the strength of the NBA and why they'll overcome this virus, even if the season isn't continued, is because stars have an ability to grab our attention quickly. Baseball does not have a lot of stars that get me back. It's a habit sport. But in the NBA, even if they did not have a season, I still want to watch the Warriors next year. I want to watch KD. I want to watch LeBron. and I think the strength of the league is sometimes it's liability. It's too labor-driven, but it's star-driven, and let's be honest, I'm going to buy your book

because I want to read about all these stars who didn't get along. I mean, that's why I want to get your book. It's the part we can relate to, too, right? Maybe that's why it's that I know the average reader can't relate to what it feels like to win a championship or to shoot over a seven-footer closing out. But you can relate to people at work getting on your nerves. Everybody can relate to that or a marriage going south. I mean, these are the human element.

And the NBA players are more palpably human than the guys who are playing in helmets. You know, we see them out there in their jerseys. It's tangible. And Draymond and Katie have a blow up. We all know about it. And increasingly so, because now we've got these super spies and lip readers. When Kerr was mumbling or muttering to himself that he was sick of what Drayman was doing in a game last season. It was captured.

It's a story. So, yeah, it's particular to the NBA that we're very much drawn into the personality aspect of it in a way that maybe we aren't with the other sports. The Athletic is based in Oakland and Ethan Strauss. Ethan Sherwood Strauss. I love that middle name. Is the author of the Victory Machine,

the making and unmaking of the Warriors Dynasty, I cannot wait to get my hands on it. You could send me an autograph copy. That would be really kind of you. and I would suck up to you to get it, and I would say nice things after you delivered it. So, hey, you do great work. Just a big fan, Ethan.

And thank you so much for coming on our Saturday podcast. Hey, I'm a big fan as well. I feel ridiculous doing an autograph for you when it should go the other direction. But thanks so much for having me on. Really appreciate it. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This line. You know these kids.

This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref. My mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he can. gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history, too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Our second guest on our Saturday morning podcast is somebody I had not heard of until maybe six months ago. Duke Mannyweather. And there's a chance you haven't heard about him either. Bruce Feldman at Fox Sports and for the Athletic wrote a recent article. He said in the past three plus years since going out in his own, the 34-year-old Mannyweather,

a combination of line coach, functional movement specialist, and powerlifter, has emerged that is the hottest name in football's private coaching world. For the record, two years ago, he began hosting the offensive line mastermind. It's a summit in the Cowboys facility. 47 players showed up, eight Super Bowl rings, and multiple all-pro bowl-level players. And Duke is joining us now. You played some offensive line. You look like a tough physical guy that wasn't long enough.

That's my scouting report, Duke. Is that fair? That is very fair. That is very fair. I had to live in the weight room. I had to pay attention to the film. I had to get the schematic advantage. I had to really attack the process and control the things I can control.

And that was how strong I was going to be. That was how refined my technique was going to be. And that was my overall knowledge of what we were trying to do for me to have a chance to even be on the field. I think your position is essential because I think offensive line, in a sport where everybody's getting better, I'm not sure the offensive line is. College football now is running spread offenses. The road graders feel few and far between. Is that the biggest issue you see with college linemen going to the pros?

You know what? That's a great point. And I think the first thing we need to touch on is that the college football landscape is not really designed or made or it's not even their job to develop guys for the pros. Right. That being said, I think the teams and the programs that do a really good job pumping out in line, and they really harp on the fundamentals from the ground up. And you look at your schools like Notre Dame, you look at your schools like Iowa, you look at Wisconsin, you look at the things that Duane Ledford had done when he was at Appalachian State,

when he was at North Carolina State and Louisville, when you look at guys like Brent Key, Mario Cristoball, all those guys, take an old school approach to developing from the ground up. And that stance, that's feet, that's hips, that's hand placement, that's inline angles in terms of run blocking, that's getting to your set point and pass protection. And they harp on those things every day. When you talk to a guy like Herb Hand down at Texas, he is harping on the small fundamentals that you might have heard in Pop Warner and high school and Peewee football, but they're making

that important every day. And that's why those guys have a great. track record of really popping out great line in every year. You work with Donald Penn of the Raiders. He's your classic bad body, very good football player.

When I look at stuff, I look at length. I mean, I just, when I see a left tackle, I want to see a guy that's long, almost NBA long. What do you look for? You are not as a person particularly long. You're very

muscular. If I said to you right now you're working with a kid named Mackay Beckton from Louisville. He'll go top 10. What is his strength? He looks big. He looks long to me. Yeah, you know what? So with Donald Penn, we worked really exclusively together

during his holdout. And again, like you said, it's one of those old school tough nose guys, long arms, big physical SOB. With Beckin, Beckin's a little different because he's got that old school size like your Orlando Pace like your Jonathan Hoppin. With

that new school athleticism that he can jump out the damn gym at 355 pounds and reverse duck. So when you look at guys like that, it's kind of freaky. It's kind of scary. You know, he's a guy that is big, powerful, wrong, explosive, can change directions, can bend. His work ethic is really strong. I don't know where this stuff is coming from about, like, him being lazy. He's really not.

He's been with me since before Christmas, and he is not left. He's training every single day. He blew up the combine and took like one day off just to kind of nurse tight hamstring. And he's been right back at it. And I've been kicking his butt every darn day. So we've been having fun taking this time to develop. But, you know, he's a guy that, you know, has tremendous upside. But he's better than what people give him credit for in terms of his technique.

When you look at it with some of the things that he can do with his past protection with his hand, His hand usage is really above average compared to some of the guys that you see in the college game. I like Jedrick Wills from Alabama. I think technically he's very strong. What does it say? When you look at him, what do you say? See? You know what? Jetric has really good film in Alabama. Does a great job of maintaining a functional base, get those hands inside. You see him being able to move the point of attack. You see him being really smooth and confident in his. pass set, being able to get to the top of his past set when guys are trying to attack his edge.

So Jedrick is a far guy to watch. And then you just see that physicality in him finishing guys and dumping guys on their head. I think that's one thing that I love to see from offensive linemen when they go out of their way to finish guys. And it doesn't always have to be a knockdown, but it's just giving that little added extra to let you know, hey, I'm here all day. You got to pick yourself up because I'm coming at you again. Do you have to be strong?

I look at Austin Jackson from USC, and I see a lack of dominant power. Is strength with all the NFL guys you work with? You work with guys right now like a Mitchell Schwartz is a pro bowler, a Trent Brown, Elaine Johnson. Those are the guys you work with. Do you believe strength is vital? Yes, it's absolutely vital.

Strength is the basis of every athletic movement that we're going to perform. So with that being said, is not just the absolute strength and the raw strength, but for offensive linemen, it's being strong in the necessary angles and areas that you have to be. So being strong, you know, loaded unilaterally, being strong in the core, you know, being able to rotate and anti-rotate,

being able to have that power output, being strong through the hips, being strong through the upper back and the left, you know, all those things where your strike comes from and where your anchorability comes from. So all the guys that you just mentioned, and bitch I work with or consult with, all those guys are uniquely strong in the necessary areas that offensive linemen need to be.

They may not be 100% weight room strong, but, you know, they can strain, they can engage their core, they can, you know, really tap into their back and stand guys up and redirect force up. And that's really important. If you don't have that functional strength, then you're not going to make it in the NFL. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramers sending on to Ernie. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines.

I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team.

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfirm. Finals are potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. I'm going to give you an NFL offensive lineman. And in a sentence, tell me his greatest strength. Trent Brown Raiders.

Length, power, athleticism. He's a freak. Mitchell Schwartz, Chiefs. consistency, very cerebral, probably the smartest guy I've been around. Lane Johnson Eagles. Addicted to the process, we'll do any and everything to make sure that his body is right, to make sure that he is always the best that he can be. You know what?

I'm going to use two sentences for him because his dedication is unreal. When that guy is hurt, he will spend around-the-clock time rehabbing and trying to get back, man. there's nobody that loves the game or offensive line more than Lane Johnson. Now I'm going to give you guys who are legends. Tyron Smith of the Cowboys, why has he been so dominant? Some say he's the best tackle since Jonathan Ogden. What's his strength? Tyron Smith is a freak, man.

He's an outlier. He's very consistent in his past set, probably has the strongest hands and balance that you'll ever see. So with Tyrant, he's so efficient with his movement and that his, Freakish strength is unreal, very above average hand usage. Best offensive lineman you've ever coached or seen on tape or seen live. Colin, man, you're putting me in a situation here because I work with some really good guys. You know what? I'm going to go outside the box here because he's a guy that's really starting to pop on people's radar and getting the respect that he deserves.

But Toron Armstead, Toron Armstead probably has some of the best feet, probably one of the most pure athletes, but beyond that, what he does to bring some of the younger guys along with him, what he demands out of that room at the saint, what he does to take care of his body, what how he studies, and then all the things that he does in the community, man, that guy is a Hall of Fame guy in my book. How about that?

Yeah, the Saints offensive line's been underrated last several years. When you talk to offensive linemen, of all the positions in football, defensive linemen get a lot of love because he gets sacks. how much does the mind matter? Do they have to be mutters and grinders because they're going to get no publicity? Yes, absolutely.

Part of what we do here with O-Line Masterminds and just all the guys that I train or consult with is you could train your body, you could train your craft, but oftentimes people forget to train their mind. So we try to give these guys mental resilience tools and understanding who we want to be and how we need to be.

What is our preparation preparing for? So we try to get those guys, those mental tools in which they could tap into and realize when things really get hard that they've been there before in their training. They've been there before in their mind. They've been there before in their affirmations. We always tell these guys that you have to trust yourself. And trust is behavior over time and positive behavior over time. So you know once you put in the work, once you've been very deliberate in practice, that you can trust yourself.

And then confident, we tell guys, you've got to have confidence. And confidence is the positive story we tell ourselves about that work that we've done and that trust that we have because of the behavior over time. So we're really big on the mental part here for what we do with all our guys. And I think that's what really gives us a competitive edge over anybody else doing what we try to do. His name is Duke Mannyweather, and he hosts the annual Offensive Line Mastermind Summit. But it's in Dallas with the Cowboys facility. Super Bowl rings, eight, multiple pro bowlers, almost 50 guys showed up.

He's got a Twitter following of many offensive linemen, and I'm fascinated by it because he's a private football coach, which has exploded as an industry. And he's one of the really hot coaches, Duke Mannyweather. So when you watch a guy play, can you tell, I've been told this by offensive linemen for years. Every week we're hurt. when you watch an offensive lineman, can you see where they're hurt? Can you see where they're tender? Can you see what they're hiding?

Some things are obviously blatant that you can see when guys are kind of compensating. There's certain things like on backside cutoff. You can see where a guy typically has no issues driving from his backside and open up the front side hit to cut guys off. And then when they start to struggle with that, they have to take more steps.

They can't really open up the hip. So you can kind of see that from them. But what I do a good job is paying attention to the guys that I really work with. And I've got a baseline. I understand how they move. And I understand, you know, where their imbalances are or where their deficiencies are. And so if I see something on tape, I'm going to write it down. And most of the time, I'll text them during the game and say, hey, what's going on with this?

And they go, oh, shoot, you can see that. Like, oh, yes, I can see it. You started to move this way and compensate it that way. Then all of a sudden, it kind of unravels. And from that, I can kind of give them an action plan, hey, here's what you can do immediately to kind of fix that or try to relieve. Because a lot of times what ends up happening is these guys, especially playing, you know, on one side,

they get so much shortening, you know, of the hip flexors and so as that it starts to inhibit their actual movement. Pat level starts to raise up and can't eat into hip extension. So we try to make sure that we're giving these guys every tool that they need on their all to be able to take care of their body and really try to correct. yourself when they can. But this game and this position is so violent that injuries are going to happen. These guys have to turn in the master compensators at some point because you're not going to get through this entire season without being dinged up and nicked up. Who's the strongest

offensive lineman you coach seen viewed, watched on tape or work with? Probably viewed. It has to be Tyrant Smith. Work with Jeremy Parnell who played for the Dallas Cowboys and then played for the Jaguars, you know, having a great 11-year career. Jeremy Parnell is probably one of the strongest, most physical, and just explosively violent players that I've ever worked with. And then if you're going to watch some of his battles the past four years with JJ Wat, man, I don't think a lot of people paid attention to him, but they were heavyweight fights.

There were times where Jeremy Cornell would take JJ Watts' soul, and you can see JJ just standing there because Parnell is every bit of 6-8, 320, low arms, and just powerful. He would strike through people. Duke Mannyweather. Great talking to you. Bruce Feldman's got an article on him. It's fantastic.

It's in the athletic. I love what you're doing. This is a big draft. Tristan Worf's at Iowa. Do you like him? What do you see? Love Tristan Worves. He's a guy that has really great tape at right tackle at Iowa.

There's some tape to him play a left tackle as well at Iowa, but I think his better tape is on the right side. That being said, I do see some issues with him with his top end range and pass protection when he's out in space and then being able to redirect and take away to inside. You kind of saw some of those similarities when Brandon Sheriff was playing left tackle. He kind of saw some of those similarities with some other guys that played out on edge and kicked inside. I think Tristan Works is going to be a phenomenal player. I think his best position may end up being an all-pro type guard where I think he could be really special.

I see like a Quentin Nelson, you know, Zach Martin. type guard out of Tristan works, man. I tell you what, he's going to get every opportunity, though, to prove that he can't play tackle, especially the way he tested. With those physical traits and those, you know, timing and all those marks,

teams are going to be intrigued and say, hey, everything that we see suggests that he should be able to have the athleticism to play out on the edge. But I just think that that guy can be a special interior offensive linemen. And I'm looking forward to see who drafts him. I'm looking forward to see how he ends up developing.

Thomas, Georgia, your thoughts? Andrew Thomas is very consistent, has a very violent style of play with that to do a lot in Georgia's offense. I do think that he needs to continue to improve on his technique. His footwork to me doesn't look as efficient. When you watch him, he kind of bounces and it's really choppy instead of being definitive, getting his feet into the ground and making a stand. I think he's going to really need to continue to improve on his hand.

A lot of times he let guys into his brain and this is with his hand. That could be a death sentence in the NFL because hands are one of those things that are a direct reflection of your feet. And again, his feet are choppy, so his hands oftentimes are off-starter. He's got to work on that, but has a chance to be a really good player. Let me throw one more at you. Austin Jackson, USC, as we noted earlier. Yeah, Austin Jackson had a phenomenal combine, and it made me go back and watch tape on him.

And, you know, my tape is, when I watch the tape, it's really what I thought, show flashes of a guy that could be really good, but just not consistent. And as you touched on, you didn't see that strong functional power. When you really dig into it, though, part of scouting and evaluating is really doing the work and research on, you know, where these guys' background, what's their capacity for development, who coached them, how good can they be? And so when you look at him and what he had to go through through last off season, you're like, oh man he's just scratching the surface so i understand why he came out and it's really intriguing what he can be so i'm excited he's got the same agent as tyrant smith and joe pato and so i i'm not mistaken um i think often has been doing some work with tyrant probably and i know joe has

probably put him in a great situation so uh i would not be surprised again he's one of those guys that can sneak into the first round or at least be your early second round the guy yeah he didn't have great coaching at USC on the offensive front. There's no question about that. Andrew Thomas had much better coaching than Austin Jackson did. Duke, Mannyweather, great stuff. Thank you so much and continued success. Thank you, Colin. Thanks for having me. You bet. Hope you enjoyed our Saturday podcast. I wanted to run through those college guys for you. Austin Jackson, somebody I watched a lot. He's got a tremendous upside. Tristan Wirfs at Iowa is good, but probably moves inside. Andrew Thomas, is very consistent. Great family, great backtown.

Great background. Mackay Beckton's probably the overall best talent. Flash is wild power. My scouts absolutely love him. So it's a very good offensive tackle draft, and I thought Duke Mannyweather addressed those players and more. Thanks again, we are extending our Saturday podcast, adding some length to it.

A lot of people are home. We figure we'll give you a couple different interviews every week. Hope you enjoy it. We'll see you next week. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with. Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way On the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast Or wherever you get your podcast What's up guys? This is Clever Taylor The 4th and on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff

Like being an internet famous referee We're in the middle of a game This linebacker Wops up to me, he goes, hey ref, my mom wants you to wave at her What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42 Hey, Rhett, Mom, I want you to weigh better.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.