The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Small Ball is Here, Zion Williamson, Michael Irving back peddles and Cam Newton is done in Carolina

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin and talks about how what the Rockets are doing and what the Pelicans are doing with Zion Williamson is the same thing. He calls out Michael Irvin for completely flipping his opinion about Tom Brady potentially going to the Cowboys. Plus, former NFL Offensive Lineman Geoff Schwartz says Cam Newton is done in Carolina and Phillip Rivers should be a broadcaster instead of playing for another team. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The story I told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown, If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart radio app by searching herd we're listening to fox sports radio what up welcome in this is the herd wherever you may be and however you may be making it part of your day live from los angeles i'm dug gotley filling in for colin cowherd radio only which means we can do this show totally naked that's the note he left me you can do the show naked

I'm in a hoodie. What are you wearing Gottlie? I'm in a hoodie. Goulet, not in a hoodie. Tooie, not in a hoodie. Anyway, we're here for you. Antonio Daniels, lead analyst for the New Orleans Pelicans

will join us half past the hour. Jeff Schwartz will join us at 10.30 on the west. Was that 1.30 on the east? And Nick Swisher, we'll talk some baseball, believe or not. We've got a lot to get to. I want to start with this. We got a lot to get to.

There is growing controversy over the Poodle winning best in show last night. Pluto or Golden Retriever, right? Like this is, the upper crust always works, always wins. Man, the Pudal had a cool cut. I'm just going to tell you, Pudel's barber, you're the real, you're Kevin Durant, you're the real MVP there. My sheep, Boodle is boycotting the Westminster. Kennell Club dog show. That's because there are no doodles.

Doodles are not yet considered. Worthy, worthy, mm, mm, worthy of acceptance. All right, we got some dog talk to get to. I saw that, I saw that, or actually was listening early this morning,

Clay Travis had a couple on from one of those cruise ships, which is quarantine. In the all-time non-injured, non-injured living nightmares. Right? Like anybody can say, like, what's your worst nightmare? I mean, like, there's lots of abduction and, okay,

but things that actually don't do anything bad to you. Like, nothing actually harms you. Anyone's top five would be quarantined in a cabin aboard a cruise ship. What a cruise ship. Sixers get another home win. The best home team. In basketball, the Clippers, the Clippers got their butts beat. We got a lot to get to.

Let me start with this. So there's a correlation in these stories. Correlation in these stories. Last Friday, I guest hosted for Colin, and it was fresh off the rockets getting a win as they have downshifted to small ball, right? To completely go in small ball and it screwed the Lakers up. Now, you fast forward to last night and the Rockets beat the Celtics at home, 116, 105. There's lots of weird things with that game.

This might be the strangest, and we don't have the crack research crew on radio only that we used to have on TV. But, Goulet, you can look this up if you want. Has there ever been a game in the NBA where a team scores 116 points and they only get five points off the bench? I don't even know how you begin to look that up, but that seems to be a low output off the bench. Five points. Austin Rivers hit a shot. Ben McLemore hit a shot.

Nobody else made a shot for the entire bench. Russell Westbrook continued his tear, 36 points. He only took two, three-point shots. So maybe the real hero in the story is not, is not Darry getting rid of Clint Capella and getting Robert Covington. The real hero in the story is

whomever, Darry or member of the coaching staff, was able to convince Russell Westbrook to stop shooting three point shots. You're the real hero. The grand experiment in Houston is just the latest incarnation in what was started by Golden State. I correlate this story.

The Rockets beating the Celtics, their second big win over a title hopeful team since going completely selling out and going 6 foot 6, 6 foot 7 in Under League. And Zion Williamson having 31 points. Now, when Zion Williamson was coming out of college last year and fast forward to this year, I have said and continue to say that Zion Williamson is not LeBron James. There's a little LeBron quality to him, but he plays actually the same position as a Draymond Green. He's a power forward at 6-5 in change, 6-7 in shoes. He's a small ball center. If you watched him last night as the Pelicans,

I mean, they absolutely positively destroyed the Portland Trailblazers. All of his points, and it's really easy to find. find them on social media. All of his points are against either Hassan Whiteside, who is the center, a couple are against Carmelo Anthony, who's the power forward, and then some Trevor Reza when they got caught in a mismatch. He's too big and strong for Trevor Reza, too fast and athletic for White Side and for Carmelo Anthony. This dude is a freak of nature. But, you know, I remember reading Malcolm Gladwell's book The Tipping Point. And there's supposedly this moment when everything tips, everything changes.

And maybe that was Golden State winning the title, or maybe it was winning 73 games the next year. But I always feel like change is not instantaneous. The change comes slowly and methodically, and it's helped out by other factors. That's what I got when I read the book. I also thought the tipping point was more of a, it's like a swell of a wave where you can see it off in the distance and it's coming and it's coming and it's coming and it's coming and it's coming and it's coming and it's here. And then it just washes everything and its path away. There's a lot to it. There's this changes my thoughts over what I guess the warriors will be, how good the warriors can be next year.

Maybe the ceiling for whatever the rockets can be. but this is the next wave in basketball. It is here. It has arrived. Anyway, you can't win a title that way. That's not true. The Golden State Warriors did. Now, did they play that way the entire game?

No. Remember, they had Bogot, and then they had Javel McGee. They would always start with the traditional kind of shot blocking, rim-protecting center. Bogot, one of the great illegal screeners in the history of the NBA, also a very good passer. and I miss his personality in the NBA. And like Javelle McGee's a rim protector and dunker. But if you want to say you can't win this way, I beg to differ, the Warriors did win this way.

The question becomes, can you win solely playing this way? But the New Orleans Pelican scored 138 points against the Portland Trailblazers. The Trailblazers have what we're told as a, you know, an elite level shot. blocker in a Hassan White side. And he could do nothing, nothing with a 19-year-old rookie, Zion Williamson. Part of it is the rules. They allow you to be super physical in the post.

Part of it is post players aren't developed in terms of their skill in the low post. Part of it is analytics tells us that a post-up shot is, in fact, a bad shot. And that the volume of three-pointers taken and having sometimes four shooters on the floor or maybe five shooters on the floor, opens up the lane and allows for greater movement. And so smaller bodies that are more agile, like Zion, can function better. But this is not the tipping point.

This is not the crest of the wave. The wave has already crashed. I mean, if you watch the Bucks play, the truth is, that's really how the rockets are playing. It's a different body. Okay, but, you know, Janus is not a good three-point shooter. He hadn't hit five.

I don't think he's hit four since he hit five against the Lakers. But Janus, because there's no center in the lane, nobody posting up and he put four shooters around him, now he can operate and do whatever he wants. That's essentially what the rockets are doing. That's similar at times to what the pelicans are doing. What's amazing about it is we're so caught up in the fact that the rockets, haven't won to this point. I don't think they were going to win anyway,

that many of us, myself included in denial over what may be the ceiling. Like, look, they're just trying to be the best at what everyone else is, in fact, doing. That's what everybody's doing. LeBron did it. It may not have looked like it when he had, whether it's Chris Bosch playing center out at three point line,

or Kevin Love playing center. But the truth is, LeBron is Janice is doing what LeBron would do, which is go one-on-one, try and play downhill, and if you help, have three-point shooters all around the basket. That's what we do. That's what basketball has become. And people were in denial of moneyball and baseball forever. Nick Sabin was in denial about the spread and running tempo offense.

And guess what Nick Sabin has run over the past couple of years? You guessed it, tempo and spread offense. This is not the crest of the wave. This is the wave crashing down and taking everything in its path. The future is here. It is here. Right? You ever come up with a good idea for an app?

You're like, man, there's a good idea for an app. Okay, don't tell you. Let's search and find out if there's an app like that. You're like, damn it! Somebody already invented that. Honestly, my wife one time she was sitting there, she was like, you know what we need? We need an app.

And I am doing that. That's not her voice, but I'm doing the you know it's a woman's voice. You know what we need. We need an app that's a mirror, right? You press the app and it's a mirror, so you don't have to cover, you know. She doesn't even wear hardly any makeup.

There's an app that's a mirror. And then I was like, well, that's a great idea. But man, maybe somebody thought of that. I haven't seen it. Search, you're like, damn it! We can sit here and think that the rockets invented this thing. And then they go and search like, yeah, kind of what the bucks are doing.

Kind of what LeBron has done, similar in some senses, some, not totally, to what, you know, the Pelicans are doing. Damn it! The future is now in NBA basketball. And we'll talk about the Sixers a little bit later on in the show, but it's fascinating to see if the Sixers are able to evolve and to be one of those teams with two guys that might not fit together in that form of basketball. That's really the challenge there. It's not that they're not great. Ben Simmons and Joel Embed both had 26 points, but can they both be great and elite level on an NBA floor at the same time now?

Get to that with Antonio Dandals a little bit later on the show. Plus, I don't know if you guys saw the Knicks hired some dude who's a former record producer, who I'm sure is a big shot in his own world, but he's supposed to rebrand the Knicks. Oh, my gosh. Wait until I play you this sound. But coming up next. Michael Irvin was a wide receiver, but he could have been a cornerback yesterday because that guy had an amazing back pedal.

I'll tell you why Michael Irving reminds me of Frank Pantangelo next in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you, exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves,

their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

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Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, Ms. Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about Defon. the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run under court licking his fingers while he got the ball.

Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. days just two days away. You need to act fast with 1-800flowers.com. Today, you can get a 24-stem, colorful roses medley for just 29-99

or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. To order, go to 1803flowers.com, enter the code heard. All right. Lots of things we can take away from the Godfather. Right?

Leave the gun, take the canoli. Go to the mattresses, that's when you're going to war, you're going to the mattresses. I do believe, there's a lot. There's a lot. But the Frank Pantangeli, this is Godfather 2 now. I remember Godfather 2. Godfather 2, one, it goes back to, it goes back, and then it goes forward, it skips

through time. It goes to Sicily, where Michael is hiding out, right? gets married. This is no spoiler alert, right? The Godfather is 30 years old, at least. But I thought this was interesting. You go back two days ago, or I guess three days ago, two days ago. Two days ago.

And Michael Irvin, Colin has been big on this Tom Brady to the Dallas Cowboys thing. Right? Tom Brady to the Dallas Cowboys. And I was like, yeah, I just, I don't really, I don't really see it. Well, if you listen, Michael Irvin was the one who also said that Tom Brady to the Cowboys made sense. This is interesting. Hall of Fame wide receiver, Michael Irvin created a stir by suggesting that Tom Brady could replace Dak Prescott. That was three days ago.

Right. Now he's walking back those comments. He started the whole thing saying some. very significant people led him to believe there was a chance the Patriots free agent could end up with his old team. Then he wanted to clarify. I'm going to clarify what I said. I am blown away by this, Irvin told Clarence Hill to the Fort Worth Star Telegram. I said what somebody said that should no way be taken as my thoughts on what should happen.

Ain't no way in the world that should happen. That would be insane. Are you kidding me? Are you out of your mind? It's over for Tom. Wait, wait, what? Wait, three days ago, you're like, man, I'll tell you what. Tom Brady could replace Dak Prescott.

Now you're like, no way. It's over for Tom. That's crazy. Who said that? Like, Michael, you said that. Now, I was just repeating what I heard. But it actually came out of your mouth in first person. I don't know what you're talking about.

This is like Frank Pantanjali before Congress. Were you a member of the Corleone family? Did you serve under Capo regime, Peter Clemenza, under Vito Corleone, also known as the godfather? I never know Godfather. Mr. Pantanjali, you are contradicting a sworn statement you've previously made to me in sign. Oh, I was in the olive. oil business with his father. But that was a long time ago.

Oh, that's all. Look, the FBI guys, they promised me a deal. So I made up a lot of stuff about Michael Corleone, because that's what they wanted. But it was all lines. The, everything. And I kept saying, Michael Goli on this, and Michael Goli did that.

So I said, yes. Yeah, sure. Right? Here's Michael Irvin. I'm just telling you right now, the Super Bowl of Miami, some very significant people. I had conversations.

We were leaning in that direction. It was shocking. I had a vodka cranberry in my hand. Oh, blame the booze. I had a vodka cranberry in my hand. When they said, I put the drink down and said, let's talk a little more about this. I promise you, I had a conversation with people.

I can't tell you who about the same scenario going down. I was like, man, I don't know if it's a real possibility of happening. Now he's like, no, who said that? Who could possibly say that? I don't know if they brought in Michael Irvin's twin brother or brother from Sicily and sat him somewhere next to him. It's an old Sicilian family trick. Or was Jerry Jones doing the old throat slash thing?

Like you're out of the family? I don't know. Hey. But man, that was impressive backpedal by the playmaker. Who said that? You did. I, I, that's crazy. Let's get to Jogalai with the news.

This is the herd line news. Doug, breaking news this morning. The NFL has reinstated Brown's defensive end, Miles Garrett. You may remember Garrett was suspended indefinitely after ripping someone's helmet off and hitting him in the head with it.

Was that wrong? Should I have done that? Was that frowned upon? Yes. This was on Thursday night football back in November. So the, the suspension ended up really being six games. That's about right.

That's what my question was going to be to you is, is that enough of a punishment for on national television ripping a quarterback's helmet off and hitting him over the head with it? I think more punishment would have been making him play for the rounds the rest of the year. Hello! Yeah, I'm fine with it.

Like, was it, was it bad? Yes. Was it embarrassing? Yes. Was he punished? Yes. Are we over it? Yes, I'm good.

Good. There also is, I mean, I'm surprised they may be ruled so quickly. They could have waited until June to, you know, there's nothing really going on right now. But by the time he comes back, right? It was, you know, I mean, look, the only reason I would hold that suspension to be longer is I believe he made up the racist thing. And I would punish him more, right? I would, I would be, but that would be an additional because what you don't know that. I don't, but like, you.

don't mention it immediately afterwards to anybody. You had the microphone in your hand and all you had to say was, look, I'm not going to say what he said, but he said something that set me off. None of that was mentioned. So I would have been okay with an additional suspension because of that. I believe he made it up. I believe he made it up. There are plenty of other men around and he was the only one who heard it and he didn't

mention it until a couple weeks later when he was going before the commissioner's office trying to get out of it. he claimed, you know, he went racial. That one I would have held the suspension greater, but six games like whatever, for whatever reason it's okay to make up that white dudes are racist. Just note, okay? One, you can't take those things back that you said.

And two, I know that social media wants to believe that there's this high level of white racists out there. There's not. We are ridding them slowly. slowly, from the earth, or at least from America, much like we're ridding ourselves of people who say Washington instead of Washington. When was the last time you heard anybody say Washington?

Never. I don't. No? No. Worse your jeans? No. That's a new one on me. So you would be the first person I've heard said it. So one of the many quarterbacks we don't know the future of is the current Panthers quarterback Cam Newton. Cam has said he will be back with the Panthers. The Panthers owner, David Tepper, was also asked about Cam's future, and he had this to say.

Listen, I'm not a doctor. You know, and I said it a million times, is he healthy? I mean, he's not a doctor. So, you know, there's a lot of different things going to happen. But first is, is he healthy? Tell me that, and then we can talk. Doug, is Cam going to be the Panthers quarterback next season? No.

Even if healthy? No. It's not that he, whether or not he's healthy, Can he stay healthy? Can't stay healthy? Look, all of the old guard is gone. Yeah. All right.

Greg Olson gone. Ron Rivera gone. Coaching staff gone. They're all up in Luke Keekly retired to retire. Only Christian McCaffrey remains. That's the guy they're going to build around. And you bring in Joe Brady, who is at LSU. Yep.

And before that he was with the Saints. I'm like, if that's the style of offense they're going to play, which is a high percentage accuracy type of offense, that's not who he is. So you have a high draft pick. So why not draft the next guy? Yes. Or wait. I'm not sure if people realize that two of the quarterback at Ohio State and the quarterback at Clemson are both from the area.

They're from about an hour from each other. They're not from far from Charlotte. And there's a reason that Matt Rule got a long-term contract. I'm going to take the right guy or I'm not going to take a guy. And maybe you get Teddy Bridgewater. who, you know, Joe Brady was with the Saints up until this year. Bridgewater was there. Maybe you'd get, you know, tell you Bridgewater as a bridge quarterback.

Gee, would. Bridge quarterback? Would Trevor Lawrence be popular in a Carolina, Jersey? I don't know. I don't have to go over a while. You think? And finally, the Chargers and Phillip Rivers have parted ways, but Rivers doesn't think he is done playing.

He told Sam Farmer of the L.A. Times, quote, I know I have the passion for the game and I think is going to last my lifetime. I think I have the ability left to go. go play at a high level. You are one of the rare Chargers fans in media. Only. Sure. You're a big defender of Rivers.

Yes. Obviously, he had a rough 2019. After being very good in 2018, 2019, 23 touchdowns, 20 interceptions. 2017, also rough year. A lot of turnovers. Do you think another team will bring him in to be their starter? And can he still be a playoff quarterback in the NFL?

I don't know. Look, the big issue with Philip Rivers is he's going to have to play in a dome or warm weather. The dome is, I mean, like, look at how it hid the lack of arm strength, of breeze at times, or of Peyton Manning for years. You know, Peyton Manning never threw a good ball, but he had to play in altitude, helped him, and even that eventually got exposed.

You know, playing in bad weather is really hard on any quarterback, let alone a older quarterback. But he really has to be protected because he's a terrible athlete. Like, he was a bad athlete, then he tore his ACL and then he got old. And what does that mean? You can't run screen passes. There's no mobility back there.

So when there's pressure, you've got to just get rid of it quick, you know, or max protect. It's a really hard thing to navigate. Frank Reich is his former offensive coordinator, is a former quarterback. They have an offensive line. They're not fully committed to Jacoby Brissette. That makes sense. Maybe Tampa makes sense because his Bruce. Ariens and he just wants to win.

I just, he hasn't been a great deep ball thrower in a long time. And that's Bruce Ariens like to throw the ball downfield. So I feel like it's indie or, I would also tell you this. Two networks are competing for Tony Romo. One of them that doesn't get him should try and throw that money at Phillip Rivers. He'd be a lot of fun in the booth. He's amazing. He's the modern day Danny Don Meriden.

And he just warm and charming and brilliant. And he's a Hall of Fame football player. I don't know if he'll play. I think he'll play an indie. I think that's the plan. Maybe Tampa, but it seems like a reach to me. Or he'll be in a booth. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. And you know, guys, and say I got two years left, it's okay to walk away with two years left. You know, it is. I mean, I think Tony Romo had plenty of years left when he walked away. Let's get back to the NBA. Let's welcome in Antonio Daniels, who works for the New Orleans Pelicans as their analyst course, an NBA champion with the Spurs.

He joins us in the herd here on Fox Sports Radio. Tone, thanks so much for joining us. Let's obviously start with Zion. I was pointing out that when he came in the league, I was telling people like, look, he's a small ball five. He's a power forward, and he's an incredible mismatch. When I watched last night, that was what he did. That's how he dominated the game. am I off? Is he really more of a ball handler like some people think, or is he a small ball five?

I think it's tough to label him at this point. The thing that you said that I've seen from day one, you know, Zion is the first kind of YouTube sensation that has had this kind of success. And from the moment that we remember seeing him in high school, you know what people have always said? his skill set will never translate to the next level. So when he was in high school, people said, well, if I was playing against him little dudes in high school, I'd be dunking on them too. And wait until he gets to Duke. Then he gets to Duke.

And he's 3-60 and windmill and, okay, well, wait until we get to the NBA. Then he does what he does in the preseason. And average in 23 points and seven rebounds shooting 71%. People say, oh, well, you know what, man, those are G-lead guys. Those are guys that don't even make the roster. Wait to the real season starts. And he's playing against a grown man. And right now, he is a man amongst boys playing in the NBA in his nine games so far.

Look, I agree with you. I mean, he's phenomenal. And he's just kind of cracking the coat. The only issue I have ever had and kind of continue to have is, man, all that jumping is a lot of landing. And it's still a lot of weight. And, you know, they can reteach him how to run. But that's just a lot of, a lot of. of torque on that body in your mind.

As a guy who played a long time in the NBA, do you know his body will hold up? I mean, we don't know anybody's body a hold up, but none of us are qualified to say that. It's just interesting to me that the moment Zion got hurt, the moment he got injured, everybody became a doctor or a nutrition specialist. Now everybody knows what's best for him.

And the thing is, none of us can say whose body a hold up and whose body won't. Do we hope it does? No question, because he's a transcendent talent. But as an athlete, and you know this as well, Doug, you have to find that level of comfort for your body that's best for you. Now what other people think is best for you.

I remember playing back when the NBA was more about strength as opposed to quickness. And people say, well, you know what, man, you've got to put on more weight. Like, okay, then you put on more weight. And then you know what? Then you lose some quickness and you lose some explosive things.

Right. So then you say, gosh, man, all right, now I've got to lose weight and get a little quicker. Then you lose weight and you lose strength. So you have to find that level of that medium and that balance that's comfortable for you. But remember, he's playing in a grown man league and he's playing like a grown man, but he's only 19 years old. So he still has some things to learn as well. No question.

I think, though, there is a, as much as we like to say, we're all guessing on health, you know, he did he has gotten hurt several times over right he was hurt before he got to duke a little bit in the summer then he got hurt when he was at duke then he got hurt in summer league and then he got he got injured right when he got to the to the pelicans so we have seen we do have a and and like look like blake griffin was hurt early in his career hasn't really been hurt a ton in you know now that we got to the depth of this career joel embit actually is not as not hurt anymore after going through the first couple years of it but there there is a logic to wondering how his body's going to hold up, isn't there?

Oh, the wondering is one thing. I'm with you. Wondering is one thing. But, you know, saying, like, do you know if his body is going to hold up or not? None of us know that. Right. He doesn't know that. You know, so I get what you're saying.

And also, there's a difference between being hurt and injured and the pelicans actually being a little more cautious than not. Because sometimes a guy is still healthy enough to play, but it defeats the purpose. You know, in Summer League, if you tweak something in Summer League, but why play? It's Summer League and it doesn't count. So, you know what I'm saying? So there are certain situations where there's a difference between being injured and being hurt. You know, he was injured against San Antonio on the preseason, and that's why he had that surgery.

But there are other instances that you can look at and say, ah, you know, was he injured or was he hurt or was he being held out for precautionary, you know, measures? You ever see anything like it? No. And the thing is, I've been telling people this all the time. See, from the moment that I took this job, Doug, David Griffin is extremely inclusive. And he told me, you know, if you're going to cover this team and you're going to talk about this team, I want you to be in depth with this team. So I'm at every practice. I'm at every practice.

I'm at every shoot around. Team dinners, all this stuff. I am there with those guys. I have seen Zion from day one. And here's the thing. I have never in my 13-year career in times that I've won. Washington League and even post career covering the league, I've never seen a guy with this size, this strength, this agility, this explosiveness, this athleticism, with this hands and touch

around the rim. I have it. You know, you can take different attributes from different guys and say, okay, he has a little bit of this or a little bit of this or a little bit of that. But in this package that you have right here with 6'5 pounds, I've never seen it. Yeah. What, can they get him down to 260? Can they get him to 255?

Is there, I mean, he's just thick and big bone, right? Like, he's just a different build. Can they, can they get that weight on? The thing is, Aaron Nelson is one of the best trainers that's out there. And, you know, it's weird because, you know, I know our job is to give opinions, but there are certain things I'm not qualified to answer. You know, I have no idea because I don't know his body structure. I don't know, you know, there are a lot of things that come along with this that I don't

know. And that's why I can say that with the fact of that muscle, that side, that as you call a big boniness, just to have that agility, that ability to go above somebody, through somebody, or around somebody, the ability to contort

his body and dominate the game, the way that he's dominant with the minutes that he's playing, it's amazing to me to watch. No, it's, it's phenomenal. Let me ask your opinion, Antonio Daniels, joining us in the herd Doug Gottlie Gottlie filling in. It's a different way of doing what Golden State did and what the Pelicans are doing.

Do you think, I just want to ask you about the Rockets, they go and beat the Celtics last night. Really, they're playing, you know, Russell Westbrook is their only non-three-point shooter. Do you think that way can win in the play? Didn't one year, I'm trying to think one year when you were in San Antonio, didn't you guys lose to the Mavericks when they went all small, did you guys beat the Mavericks when they won small? I'm trying to, try to remember back.

No, we, when I was just San Antonio, we never lost to the Maverick. So this style, do you think, because now everybody's doing, or everybody's trying to do what Golden State did. Zion's a, you know, just a freak athlete at that small ball five power forward position. The Rockets are doing it, you know, the PJ Tucker's essentially their big guy, right? And they're just spreading you out and going. Do you think that can win in the playoffs? I do. I do, because that's where the NBA is now.

You know, it's a pace and space league. And what they're doing, this is the first time I feel like Mike Dantoni has put all the cards in and said, this is exactly the type of team I want to have, and this is exactly the type of team I want to coach. Because this is where the NBA is. How many guys or centers in today's NBA can really, really make the Houston rocket pay for playing small?

Shaq ain't out there anymore. Tim Duncan ain't out there no more. more. You know, Patrick Ewing, Kekima Lajuan, those centers that teams played through back in the day, they ain't doing that no more. And what they're saying is, if you want to put Yokic on the block, or if you want to put Bushibich on the block or anyone else and compromise our defense, now on the other end, you're going to have to guard one of these guards. And that's where today's NBA is. Think about what we're saying about the traditional center. Andre Drummond, who's an all-star and has led the NBA rebound in five of the last six years was just traded for John Henson,

Brandon Knight, and two second round picks. So that shows where the traditional center is now. The way to go now is to do what the clippers did. You want to get guys in between six foot four and six foot eight, six foot nine. So now you have the versatility to guard multiple positions and space the floor. Do I think Houston can win in the playoffs? Yes, because you have two guys that can give you 30, to 40 point tonight.

They have star power. Russell Westbrook has never played with this type of shooting. So you can see the amount of space that he's playing with. Yeah, I think it can work. Whether or not it will is a different case in scenario. Last thing, you spent a long time as an analyst for the Oklahoma City Thunder. And KD, he's given us a lot of reasons why he left. I thought it was, you know, I thought this is the first time he really let us in.

The problem with people is they're tired of hearing it. but he said, you know, they didn't surround us with me enough skill. And I think his translation skill was shooting, you know, when they had Stephen Adams and Andre Robertson, you know, non-shooters. Yes. And even Russell Westbrook and, and Serge Abaka. You know, they kind of got caught in between eras, right? From the Lakers' Spurs era to the Warriors era.

Whether, do you like what he said and is it accurate what he said? Okay, I'm going to be completely honest with you, Doug. You know, we ask athletes to be honest, and when they're honest, we get upset at them. We get mad at them. You know, working with OKC and the fan base the last four years, you know what the fan base's biggest complaint was? There's not enough shooting. There's not enough shooting. So when you have guys like Anthony Morrow and Steve Novak and some of those guys, those guys, you can't play long minutes.

Because they can't guard them. They had three and D guys. They had three, but no D. Or they had D. They didn't have three and D. Correct. Right. They had three or D, one of the two.

So you had an Andre Robertson. You know, but Andre Robertson, if he had Steve Novak jump shot, now you have this different case and scenario. And what happened was Kevin Durant wasn't wrong. And what he said, the fact that the way he said it might have been a little, you know, off. But the fact that he said it, he was correct. The Oklahoma City Thunder for years now has needed more shooting.

Because now that's one of the reasons Kevin Durant left and went to go and state. Because now he's playing with guys that give him space. When you're playing with the best shooting back court in history, now you've got a little bit more space to do what you can do, as opposed to playing. And this is not a shot at Andre and this is not a shot at Stephen Adam or anyone else. That was a part of those teams. But when you're Kevin Durant or you're Russell Westbrook,

you're facing a man and a half every time down the floor. And those guys, those stars want space. Look at today's NBA. That's the blueprint. Luca, surrounded with shooters. Yannin, surrounded with shooters. James Hardin and Russell Westbrook, surrounding with shooters.

The three-point shot is the most valued asset in today's NBA because of the amount of star powers and skilled stars that are present on certain teams. He's Antonio Daniels. He's the late analyst covering the New Orleans Pelicans, just coming off a demolishing of the Portland Trailblazers in which Zion Williamson, the rookie, has 31 points and looks ever bit the part of a transcendent.

future transcendent pro. Tone, thanks so much for joining us, man. Appreciate you, dope. Pleasure is always, always mine. As good as the Pelicans and bright as the Pelicans' future looks is pretty much the opposite of the New York Knicks. It's all encompassed in one interview yesterday. I'll share it with you. I'm Doug Gottlieb. That's next in The Herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer

beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own

experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, Fam? Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player

to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't

have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So there's a couple of things that happened yesterday. It was kind of interesting. So Forbes released their NBA valuations, right? What the value is for NBA teams. And it's not really stunning, I don't know, to me, but I think to some people it might have, might be. The most valuable franchise in the NBA per Forbes, and per Forbes, is the New York

Knicks. You know, like the New York Knicks. What have they won? Nothing, nothing recently. Nothing. In fact, they've done the opposite of win. They're up 15%. The Lakers have won NBA title in 10 years. They're up 19% once. Knicks, 4.6 billion. Lakers, 4.4. Golden State Warriors, you want to talk about something amazing. The Warriors, I remember I have a, not somebody fairly close to a family member of mine who sold a good, healthy number of shares in an NFL team. And it was about the time the Warriors were for sale. And I was like, you know, you should look at the Warriors. Like, the Warriors, they're in Oakland.

Can't sell Oakland. Doesn't work. Not a great buy. The Warriors are worth $4.3 billion. the bulls, it's a massive drop-off at top three into anybody else. The bulls are $3.2 billion. Over a billion dollars. Still, that's with a B.

That's a third comma. That's a lot. Should be pointed out that the grizzlies, followed by the Pelicans, followed by the Timberwolves, those are the least valuable franchises. The Hornets are 1.5, although Jordan sold a minority.

stake to cash out basically what he paid for the team and he still owns the majority of the team. There's a lot to that discussion. What we can't argue is that the Knicks have been a PR disaster for a good number of years, some because of their owners, some because the team stinks. So the Knicks hired a marketing specialist, a brand specialist. and yesterday he made his debut. His name is Steve Stout, and he's like a hip-hop mogul from the 90s.

But he's the hip-hop mogul that you and I didn't actually know existed, right? Like the ones we think of are in Los Angeles. He's apparently New York hip- So he goes on first take and says this. New York City is the hub of sports and entertainment. That's how I feel. And it started moving around. My job is to bring it back. Toronto Raptors they bought in Drake, right?

They brought in Drake to bring that thing. The New York Knicks brought in Nick. Like, the arrogance in that statement is amazing. The Knicks released the statement saying that Steve Stout does not speak for the Knicks organization of things he says. Of course, setting the brand back even further. Is Cam Newton done? Find out next in the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week,

within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Ah, what up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be in, however you may be making this part of your day. Good morning to you. I'm Doug Gottlieb, filling in for Colin Cowherd. Radio only today.

Close optional. Gle, I was kidding with the close optional. I look, there's no dress code, but I do think. think walking around a thong with your chest hair is billowing out as a bit much. But okay. Okay. I mean, normally we're in front of the television cameras. We have makeup and TV.

Collins is off today. He'll be back tomorrow. In the meantime, you're stuck with me, America. My man, Jeff Schwartz, former NFL lineman and brother of a really good lineman. Right? That's really what it comes down to. His brother's awesome, so we'll have him on. Because we can't book his brother because he's actually won a Super Bowl and it's got hard, hard to book him.

We'll talk with Jeff Schwartz upcoming. We want to talk some Philadelphia 76ers basketball as they dominate the L.A. Clippers last night, and Clippers did the thing that a lot of teams want to do when they're getting their asses kicked in the NBA. Want to fight? Right? That's what teams do. Nick Swistrell, join us next hour.

We'll talk about baseball. Baseball who's not actually listening to us. I'm convinced. Baseball is like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, what'd you say? That's what they're doing. but let's start with this. David Teper is the new owner of the Carolina Panthers, and he has made sweeping changes.

Now, here's something I want to keep in mind, and this does relate to what I just talked about last hour. Okay? There's a common perception among fans. You're like, yeah, these guys can lose money on a team because they're making money on teams. Right. And as I told you with the franchise evaluations, that is in fact true. Right. It is. You know, I mean, Jerry Richardson used to own the team.

His family made a ton of money selling the football team. So whatever they lost in a yearly basis, they made up when they sold the team. But here's the problem with that. Okay. The new guard of owners paid top dollar for these teams. whereas the old guard of owners paid a couple hundred million for a team. So if it's worth two and a half billion dollars, yeah, you're working on credit, but your equity, the value of, this is like if you're in a home, you're like, well, you know, if you bought a home for $100,000, that's now worth the million dollars, you can just refy,

you know, take some cash out of the value of it, and eventually when you sell it, you pay back to loans and you're fine. But now the new owners paid it at or above, asking. So once you paid 1-1 for a house that the last guy paid 100 grand for, and now your house is still worth like 1-1-2-5, like you can't do that. Besides, there's only 32 NFL teams. In order to make that money, you know what you got to do? You got to sell the team, which in addition to finding somebody who's going to buy the team, you got to like, wait, I made all this money my entire life so that I could finally, David Tapper is a hedge fund guy,

right? And he made a ton of money, and this was his whole life, and he was a partial owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers. He waited, waited, waited, and now he finally gets the opportunity to buy an NFL team. And now you're like, yeah, if you want to really make money, you've got to sell it. Like, no, no, what if I made money the old-fashioned way? Like, I actually made money on my business. David Tepper is 62 years old. By the way, if you sell an NFL team, you're not buying another NFL team. That's not the way.

Oh, you sold that one? Don't worry. This is not like house flippers. Well, you know, I flip the Carolina Panthers. Now I'm going to go flip the Houston Texans. Now I'm going to, like, no, not the way it worked. You get one shot at this thing. So Tepard takes over, and Ron Rivera is gone.

Ron Rivera is gone. Greg Olson may retire, maybe a broadcaster. Look, Greg Olson is so good, the XFL this past weekend when he's worked for Fox previously. If I'm him, I keep playing and I do the XFL. Like, I do both. I scratch the itch. And then, you know, whenever he wants to finish playing,

he's already met with the bills and the Redskins. I don't know why the Patriots haven't called him already. But he's gone. Like the only one still, the last of the Mohicans, if you will, is Christian McCaffrey. That's what they want to build around. So they hire Matt Ruhle. And Matt Ruhl's like, I need the longest deal in the NFL. They give it to him.

Matt Ruhle hires Joe Brady. Joe Brady is the young up-and-comer. who turned around LSU's office. He went to LSU and he's like, you know, guys, we can throw the ball forward. They're like, no, yeah, yeah. I mean, we can't hand it off. We can still do that, okay?

We can actually throw the ball forward. There's actually no limit to how many times we can do it. And now as Sue is like, huh? Really? Tell us more. Like, well, I was with the Saints and we threw the ball all the time. Get out of town.

Right? He was the one who's like, you know, you have the best athletes. We got this quarterback, Joe Burrow. What if? Stick with me for a second. We actually threw the ball to our best athletes. And we had somebody who could do so accurately. Really? Yeah. Turns out it works. Forward pass. Brilliant.

So Joe Brady, who spent some time with the Saints, and really, it wasn't like he was calling plays with the Saints. He was just like hanging out. Sean Payton's a really guy. but all right, he's a copy of a copy. Still worked in multiplicity. The copy of the copy of the copy was the guy shaving his tongue. He's the copy of the copy. Not the copy of the copy of the copy.

Anyway, you bring in Joe Brady. He's like, okay, so, hmm, what's that mean for Cam Newton? All right, let's check in with Dave Tepper. Remember, this is the owner of the Carolina Panthers. Listen, I'm not a doctor. You know, and I said it a million times. Is he healthy? and how does he's not a doctor

so you know there's a lot of different things can happen but first is is he healthy tell me that and then we can talk tell me that he's healthy and this is of course reacting to Cam Newton saying I'll be healthy I'll be there remember Cam Newton told us he was healthy to start last season

he played in two games he tried to tell us he was healthy the year before when he played in 14 games but at the end he was throwing dirt balls what if we did this what if we did The, you guys, which is it, the median and the mean, which is the one where you take out the highest and you take out the lowest? Which one is that?

Is that median or mean? I'm going to have to go to Twitter for this one. Goulet, do you have an answer to that? I think that's neither. The mean is the average. The median is whatever one is in the middle. Yes, but don't you, when you find the median, don't you take out the top and you take out the bottom and then you find what's in the middle? Regardless of which, you can look that up.

have internet. Mine kind of works. Doug Gottliebin for Colin, this is the herd. If you did that with Cam Newton, right? If you eliminated the fact that his name is Cam Newton, he was the MVP of the league. And he just took out his best season when he was the MVP in 2015, which by the way is five years ago, several surgeries ago. And he took out his worst season, which I guess we could say is last year, although maybe it's the year before the MVP

when they were 5, 8, and 1. If you take out his worst season, what is he? What is he? He has one year where he threw 35 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. Keep in mind that season they only played one team with an above 500 record during the regular season. Yes, they were 15 and 1, but they beat up on non-playoff teams. If you take that year out, he's 20 touchdowns and 12 or 13 interceptions, maybe even more. The best part about Cam Newton is his ability to make plays with his feet.

And he's been hit so much and beat up so much, he wants to be a pocket passer. Look, I don't know what's going to happen in Carolina. But it sure feels like you don't do all of these things if you're going to bring Cam Newton back. And even Dave Tepper's own voice and statements have changed. If you go back a month ago, he was like, look, whenever Cam Newton's back, it's his team. Now he's like, let me know if he's healthy. Then we'll talk.

Then we'll talk. You hire Matt Ruhl for a reason. He hires Joe Brady for a reason. You get rid of all the old guard for a reason. You don't bring back Cam Newton. And you also don't make a statement like the statement he made yesterday, which is, he's healthy. Let me know.

We'll talk then. I'm not a doctor. Cam's not a doctor. In other words, the actual medical people are like, He's not healthy. He's never going to be truly healthy again. Feels like Cam Newton's done in Carolina. Right?

Feels like he's done in Carolina. Doesn't it? And if you take out the top and you take out the bottom, is that median or mean? Which one is it? Still neither. You sure? I thought I might have changed.

I now know what the mode is and the range is. Wait, wait, it's the mode. One that appears the most frequently. Mode, I remember me. Taking out the best and the worst is actually a, a Colin thing. I think you may have learned that from him. That's how he judges quarterbacks. You take out

the best season and the worst season. Hmm. Trunkated me. Trunkated me. A buddy of mine just texted me. Trunkated me. Okay. Yeah. My buddy Tanner just texted me. He said truncated mean, his son Jackson, who's only 10. What kind of school do you have your kid in if they're doing truncated mean? Can you look that

up, truncated mean? Yes. If you take the truncated mean of what Cam Newton's doing, Cam Newton has done in his career Like let's this is a this is where like This is like the why do I do this I don't math sucks I get this all the time at home Right so look just do this this is really this is really

Really simple okay he's thrown 182 touchdowns And 108 interceptions Okay so you take out the best that's 35 35 from the touchdowns right And and um And during that year, he had 10 interceptions. And you take out the worst.

And the worst is, do you want to do last year? Right? Last year was a bad year. You only played two games. Right. Does that, or do you want to do the, let's do another one, but he's 18 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. Okay, take out the worst. So you subtract 22 from 108, 22 from 108.

And you have, what is that, 86? Okay, that's the number of interceptions. and you subtract 35 and 18. Okay, that's 43, 53, 53 from 182. So 53 from 182. This is great radio, by the way. I know, I know. I mean, the rudders completely come off when Colin's not here.

I get it. I get it. That's 129 and 86. Okay. So 129 and 86 in seven. seven years. So seven into 129 is

550, what is that? Seven into 129. You have your phone out. You're doing it. I can do it in my head as well. What do you got? 18.4. That's how many touchdowns he throws a year. Seven into 86? That one I can do. That's 12. And change. That's who Cam Newton is.

And that's healthy Cam Newton. That's prime Cam Newton. That's an offense built around Cam Newton with a running game and an old school coach and a good offensive line. In his 20s, average Cam Newton, truncated me in Cam Newton, is 18.4 and 12 point whatever in change. What is the infatuation with Cam? Help me. He wears clever hats, beautiful suits. Oh, he runs.

Not anymore. Not anymore. He dabs. Dabbings over. Grandparents dab now. White parents in the suburbs dab and get made fun of by their kids now. That's...

Trust me. Trust me. The answer's right there. It's right there in front of you. And I think David Tapper in his... I'm not a doctor. He's not a doctor. Is there a doctor in the house?

It's also called a trimmed meme. Trimmed meme. It's the more common. common term. I like truncated. Truncated sounds more official. Plus, my buddy just texted to me and I used it on national radio. Do you own or rent your home? Sure you do. Fortunately, GEICO makes it easy to bundle your home and auto insurance. It's a good thing too because having a home is hard work. Go to geico.com, get a quote and see how much you could say. Geico.com. Easy.

The Philadelphia 76ers dominate the LA Clippers. What I wouldn't do if I was Philadelphia. Next, in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Hey, ref, Mom, I'm going to want you. you to way better.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective

on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by,

like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. man, he running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're buying a car, the process can be overwhelming. Now there's a better way with True Car. Go to Truecar.com, build your car, and compare models by options.

From discovery to pricing to reviews, get everything you need with the new. True car. Let's get you an update on everything in the world of sports. All right, maybe not everything. This is a lot. Here's John Gullet. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So the debate about how much Dak Prescott is really worth has literally been going on for a year now. The Cowboys have reportedly offered Dak, something around 33 to 35 million, depending on which

report you believe. However, there is speculation. Dak, Looking for something more in the 40 million a year range. Kimberly Martin of Yahoo Sports was talking with him about what he is worth. Are you a $40 million quarterbacks? You tell me. I'm asking you. You're the one that it's your project.

You're a prognosticator. I'm not the one writing the checks, though. I'm not either. So I get it. He's kind of playing around, having fun. But he also doesn't say, no, I'm not asking for way more than any quarterback has ever gotten ever. Who is that, by the way, who's interviewing? Kimberly Martin from Yahoo Sports.

She sounds very young. She does. She has been a writer for a while, but she sounds very young, yes. Is Dak overvaluing himself here? I mean, is he starting to get crazy? Yeah, yes. I mean, I get you have to put a high value on yourself and you want to ask for as much as possible,

but at a certain point, he's going to outpriced anything realistic, and he's going to force the Cowboys into a franchise tag situation. Yes. Yes. Now, look, the leverage there is for him is that if they franchise tag, and they can't franchise tag of Marry Cooper. Correct. If they franchise tag, every penny you earn on the franchise tag works dollar for dollar against the salary cap. It does hurt your cap more, even though you're making less. Right. So it penalizes teams that can't get a long-term deal done.

And you always want to come in high, right? Like, never, you don't want to go like, well, you know, but look, look, you're worth what somebody's willing to pay you. right? That's what all of us are worth. There's no definitive amount that you're worth. It's like people ask all that. Was Tony Romo worth the $15 million? It's supposed to, like, I don't know. They're going to pay it.

I guess he is. I don't think he is. I don't think. This whole idea, well, the longer it goes, and Pat Mahomes, like, I don't care. I've seen Pat Mahomes. I've seen Dak Prescott. One's one of the great quarterbacks in the history of the sport.

The other one's a nice player. It's fine. Remind me how they did against the good teams. Not good. Remind me how they did when they had to win this year. They had to win on the road against the banged-up Philadelphia team. Like, I don't care what their gross offensive stats are. They were gross offensively in the big game.

They didn't beat the good teams. He racked up a lot of garbage time this year. As a Cowboys fan, a lot of his at the end of the game, you went, how did he throw for 402 and they lost by 20? I don't understand. Look, and this whole idea of he's playing at a discount like, Okay. He played a discount because the fourth round pick shouldn't have gotten a DUI before the should have been better in college. Should have been better in college. Although he looked, he evolved and he got better. And by the way, he walked into, like, he walked into Tony Romo's team that was ready to, like, Tony Romo was legit. That was a Super Bowl contender team. Yeah.

I think he's mid-30s. I think they want quote cost certainty. I don't blame him for being ambiguous or whatever. But if push comes to shove and he's going to hold out to be one of the highest paid guys. guys and he's willing to go to the mattresses. I wouldn't blame him if they franchise tag. So Michigan State has finally found its replacement for Mark Dantoneo. It is Colorado's Mel Tucker, which is interesting because on Saturday, Mel Tucker tweeted, while I am flattered to be considered for the head coach job at Michigan State football, I am committed to Colorado football for the hashtag the build of our program. It's great athletes, coaches, and supporters.

Hashtag unfinished business. go buffs. We are hashtag relentless. Hashtag culture. Hashtag the build. He has now taken the Michigan State head coaching job. Hashtag chase the money. Hashtag it's a lot of money. Hashtag double his salary. Hashtag you'd take it too. Right. Is this kind of a dirty move this late in the game? Obviously, you have a lot of recruits that have committed to going to you at Colorado,

especially since you already said you weren't going to take the job and you weren't going to go anywhere. I don't think it's a great look. I really don't. No. He's only been there a year. They went a year when it went five and seven. And they turned it down. I did have a good recruiting class or whatever.

And I get that, you know, financially I can't turn it down. Yeah, you can. You actually can turn it down. And you did turn it down. You know, you did. Sometimes you, I understand they keep throwing money at you. But if the answer, was no for a reason bigger than money, then it shouldn't be about the money.

And there are many people that are critical of the PAC 12. Like, well, the PAC 12 just won't pay. Like, or maybe they have their priorities in order. Maybe they do. They don't want to go. Michigan State is overpaying because it's become a bad job. Yeah. Everybody thinks the NCAA's coming.

The Larry Nassar stuff still kind of hovers around the university. And oh yeah, by the way, Ohio State and Penn State and Michigan are going to kick your ass for the next couple of years while you try and get up on. Feet and there's other schools in that division, which I've gotten pretty good. Also, the offer was obviously going to be high because Michigan State is desperate. Every coach has been hired and they got turned down by a couple of, so they had to go all in on someone and clearly they made him a big risk. I would say the mistake was being so forthright and saying you were turning it down. On the other hand, it is brilliant negotiation.

And we just ran a car ad for you for True Car. Now, look, no one does it, but you're in a dealership and you don't like that. like what you're hearing, walk out of the dealership. Leave me your number. Hey, here's the number. Call me if you want to hit this number. You'd be amazed at how many times they call that number. And finally, last week it had been reported that World Wide West, who is one of the most powerful men in basketball,

will be joining the Knicks front office. Doug, I think you actually thought it was a smart move. Because if he's there, you at least get a sit down with every big free agent. They might not sign with you, but the Knicks can't even get in the room at this point. And he would get you in the room. Yes. Well, forget about all that. he isn't coming. The Athletic is reporting that William Wesley is not joining the Knicks in any

official capacity. He does have relationships with some of the guys with the Knicks, so he may be around, but he's not officially joining the team. We already talked about your guy, Steve Stout, who just kind of went on and started talking about coaching decisions, even though he's supposed to be a PR guy. Are the Knicks ever going to be salvaged? This was supposed to be the big salvaging was these guys, and it is not gone. well in the week since they announced all this? Yeah, if they win games, everybody forgets. Like, look, they got some bad luck there.

They tanked for Zion and didn't get him. Then they get R.J. Barrett, and you're like, Pete Warren's, like, Andre Barrett's, R.J. Barrett's kind of mechanical. May not be what he was advertised to being. Look, that said, eventually somebody's going to... Look, one of these guys are smart. I think that Kevin Durant thing is stupid. Like, no way, I think.

I think it's dumb for him to go to the Nets. The Nets are like the seventh most popular professional sports franchise in New York. I'm not saying they're not great or have a really well-run organization with good money. And the GM's brilliant. And I mean, Sean Marks is brilliant for a player, obviously, who grew up in the San Antonio system. I think they're well coached. They have good culture. But they're the Nets.

Like, look, my argument for the NICs, if I'm trying to sell you on the NICs, is simple. We have been the laughing stock of the NBA for the last 20 years. Doesn't mean we've been bad for 20 years. We've been the laughing stock for the last 20 years. We're still the most valuable franchise in the league. Okay. Imagine what we can do for your brand if you help lift us up. I didn't say it's easy, but that's the argument.

Forget about hip-hop moguls and I'm the new Drake and the coaches and all that other stuff. Like, look, if you want to make a whole hell of a lot of a lot of. of money. Be the part of the guy that the group that fixes the Knicks. You fix the Knicks, you own New York. And if you own New York, you own the world. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. All right, let's go to the Herd Global Satellite positioning, whatever thing. I'm a jig. As Jeff Schwartz joins us, he has his own podcast called Jeff Schwartz is smarter than you. Jeff Schwartz is smarter than you. I believe his brother, starting his own podcast.

I'm better than my brother ever was. That's actually what it is. Brother, your brother, he basically threw out of 1600, right? Perfect score in the playoffs. Yeah, one pressure in 143 pass snaps. It was pretty impressive.

He had the highest graded linemen that PFF has ever graded in the postseason. He was locked in, man. It was pretty wonderful to watch. Obviously, Super Bowl, he played great. Yeah, no, it's pretty awesome. It's a shame that you sold his tickets and didn't get a chance to see it in person.

Jeff Schwartz joins us. I wish I would. Jeff Schwartz joining us. Let's start a place that you live in, a place that you played, the Carolina Panthers. So Dave Tepper, let me play for you what Dave Tepper had to say yesterday when he was asked about Cam Newton. Listen, I'm not a doctor. You know, and I said it a million times. Is he healthy?

I mean, he's not a doctor. So, you know, there's a lot of different things can happen. But first is, is he healthy? Tell me that, and then we can talk. Tell me that, then we can talk. Then we can talk. What do you take that to mean? Well, I saw this from the beginning.

There is zero chance. Cam Noon is back in Carolina this year. As soon as Roan River was fired and it was clear they were going in different direction, they have changed everything in the program. They have a new coach, obviously. They have a new strength coach. They have a new trainer, right? They have new, you know, Tepper is a fairly new owner for the Panthers.

They've already, you know, Jettison, Greg Olson, Lutkeekly was a surprise retirement. They would have kept him, but you're going to see more cuts on this roster. Matt Rule is going to bring in his own guy. They're going to bring in their own quarterback, whether it's a draft, whether it's a rental of agency. I just can't see Matt Rule being forced to keep Cam. And look, if Cam is healthy, he's still a very good quarterback in the NFL,

but how do you time that rule with Cam and what if Cam gets hurt? You know, the middle of the season, now you've wasted Matt Rule's first season, and you don't have a quarterback for the future. It feels very much like this is a year today. We'll walk from Cam. Cam, we'll find a spot if he's healthy. But this makes total sense, and I never thought, can we back this year healthy or not.

And I think Tepper's comments or really no comment is kind of more evidence that that's going to happen. Why not just say, you know, we're making a lot of changes here? We'll see. Why not, you know, I guess maybe what's the win in saying that hurts his trade value? Yeah, you might as well just wait. I mean, there's no harm in waiting, but I think we'll see when Frangency approaches, obviously if they release Cam before Fratency,

we'll know more. But maybe Matt Ruhl looks around and he says, look, you know, I want to get this quarterback, but can we afford him? You know, Cam's still relatively cheap. I think 20 million for his service if he's healthy. Maybe he truly is healthy now and then they want to keep him. I think ideally they would rather move on.

Jeff Schwartz joining us. I saw this from Michael Irvin. Michael Irvin three days ago said, you know, I'm talking to people Miami, and the Tom Brady to Dallas thing could happen, and then all of a sudden he does a complete 180 and says it'd be crazy to replace Dak Prescott with Tom Brady.

Let's start with Tom Brady. Tell me where outside of New England it actually makes sense. Well, I mean, it would make sense like a place like Nashville and to the tires. You have a good defense and have a good defense, and have a really good coaching staff and have good players and a good general manager and have room to build around Tom Brady. I think that makes sense because you look for me.

You think Tom Brady goes to Nashville though? Well, it feels like this for me that like Payne Manning when he decided to change teams or when he was forced to because of the Colts cut him, he was going somewhere to win, right? At age 43, Tom Brady's not going to the Raiders just to play Vegas and make money in a city that doesn't, a state doesn't have tax, right? He has money. He's not going somewhere to break the bank. He's going somewhere to win, and so you have to look at the teams and have a chance to win.

And so the Titans, I think, in that division, would have a chance to win. I don't think he could go there, but that, to me, is more realistic than the Cowboys, in my opinion, who have an offensive with McCarthy that's not really built for Tom. If Josh McDaniels went to Dallas, I would 100% by the Tom Brady was going there. I just can't see that happening because of the reason I just said. I just don't see him doing that, making that jump. You know, if you're looking for teams that win, the Colts are maybe possibly a team, I don't want to see him going to get in the,

but he's not going to pay him. He's not going to pay. Yeah, that's fair, too, but it's about winning. So if he goes to Dallas, is he going to win? That defense is not good enough to win now. He's got about two years left, two or three years. That's why I think he stays in New England. But I don't think he's going to Dallas for a money grab.

No, I'm with you as far as winning and branding. I actually think the Vegas thing makes a ton of sense because lots of guys go to Vegas for one last kind of paycheck. I don't think they're all that, you know, they're crazy, terribly far off. And they have shown the wherewithal to go out and get players.

I just, I don't know how he fits with Gruden's system. I just, you know, this is what I liken it to on my show. It's try to learn a foreign language in your 30s or 40s. Right. That's what he would be doing because he's played in one language. I don't think it's one pure sense.

system. But as you know, most people in sports know, like, all right, this defense, what do we call? We call it Chicago. Now, we call that Detroit. Okay, so Detroit is Chicago now. I am so confused. Right. You start calling things one thing. And now we've got to completely change the verbiage for, you're not going to change it. You're going to have to change it. The quarterback's going to have change it. And we've done one thing one way for 20 years. Like, really going to go, that doesn't seem to be something that works. Also, at his age, too, like, along the same one is, like, you know, his trainer right now has full access to, you know, to the facility. And that could be the case.

It will obviously be Vegas, but does he want to go to a new facility, have a new routine, have new trainers? Like, all this stuff is new. Well, right now, to your point, he knows everybody. He knows the routine. He does the guys do stuff for him in the locker, right? They have their routines down. I don't think he is his age.

He wants a new routine just to make more money. Right. It's a great point. And, like, remember he skipped out in OTAs last year, you can do that on a team you've been with for 20 years. You can't go to a new team, go like, hey, we'll take a couple weeks off here. Like, yeah, kind of. We don't really, no.

That doesn't, no, no, no, no, no, we can't do that. Jeff Schwartz joining us. What about Philip Rivers? He says two years left. Do you think he has two years left? I think he'll be in the broadcast moves before he plays football again. I just, if we're looking at the way quarterback, the position is going right now, I cannot see a team investing in a quarterback that can't move whose arm is not Exactly.

You said Tampa? No, I said can't move. I agree with you. Okay, yeah, can't move. And, you know, just can't, just his arm is deteriorating. If you can still throw the ball, but we've seen over the years his arm strength gear a little bit less. I just can't see me.

You know, people mention the Colts. Why? Tampa Bay is not a good fit either because Bruce Aaron is like big arm quarterback that's not rivers anymore. I just, I can't imagine a team unless they're super desperate to have an injury or two. Maybe so maybe this is a signing in August when someone gets hurt, unfortunately. or maybe September you bring in the rivers. I just can't see a team investing two or three years in a quarterback that can't move anymore.

Look around the NFL. All the best quarterbacks have an ability to move and escape the pocket and make plays with their legs. And I just can't imagine a team signing up for three years of immobile Philip Rivers. No, he was a bad athlete. He's never played another sport. Like, you know, most of these guys play hoop or baseball, whatever. He's never played another sport. He's not a good athlete.

Then he tears his ACL. now he's in his late 30s. Like, he's the worst athlete in the sport. And we've gotten to a place where you don't have to be Lamar Jackson, but you've got to be able to move a little bit. He can't even operate in the screen game because he's so bad athletically. Correct. No, it's all true.

You don't have to be Lamar Jackson, but you've got to be Pam Holmes, Russell Wilson, I mean, have some movement. You've got like Big Ben moves decently well in the pocket for a guy his size. I mean, Tom Brady is not half bad in the pocket. as well. And I just think that Rivers doesn't even move in the pocket well. I mean, he's just old. And so I think he'll be great if he gets an opportunity to broadcast somewhere. That, to me, is the better option. Just get in a broadcast, you've had a great career, just be a charger for life.

I know you're in Florida now. And just get ready for your post career. Okay, so let me ask you about DAC. What's the magic number? So I don't know what it is, and I wrote this yesterday for SB Nation. It feels very much like we're getting into a Cousins Redskins standoff where, you know, the Cowboys have a number. They offer them $33 million this offseason. He said no. Dak has a number.

Back has the amount of years. Both teams aren't moving off their spots. You know, both feel they have the leverage, and the franchise tag is going to be applied. And, the franchise tag, while a lot of money, I think for quarterback, it's just not. ideal for both parties, right? As a quarterback, you'll get millions and millions of dollars of guaranteed money over multiple years, so you're set for life. But even though a franchise tag is

is $30 million, you're still set for life, but you're guaranteed, you know, $100 million and you know you'll be for at least five more years. On the team side, you want to get a long-term contract done because they can set your cap up, you know what you need to get, you know, to surround your quarterback with, and you have a peace of mind for five to seven years. And so the franchise tag, I think for that position alone, is something that no one really

wants to use. And I think we're going there because Dak has dug in and he's waiting for a home's deal probably, which has nothing to do with his deal, is waiting for a possible new CBA that might be ratified in March. I doubt it. But that will change the idea, what his worth will be because we'll have more money, hopefully on the player's side. And they're an impact.

Here's the thing. How good is he, though? Right? Because the argument for Dak was like, the argument. The argument for DAC was like, well, you know, you might not be great, but they win. Okay, this year the Redskins were an abject disaster. The Giants were an abject disaster. The Eagles literally had practiced squad guys, and they still couldn't win the division.

Yeah. Okay. That argument goes out the window when that's the result. And when he didn't have Amari, they had no offense, when they didn't have two years ago, and when they didn't have Zeke, they had no offense three years ago. Like, what are we doing here? And when their left tackles out, they also doesn't finish in. It's a valid point, but I think you're stuck as an NFL team, right?

Because if you're doubts, right? You have obviously 10 ones with the line. You have Zhek. You have, let's say, you start a lot in the back. You have young tight end. You have calls on defense. They just didn't play well last year. You hope that the coaching change helps with that.

So you're close. And then if you get rid of DACD though, what do you do? Do you go in the draft? Do you try to sign what in Tannenhill for cheaper? What do you do if you do? You're kind of, this problem with all these things. Like the Rams and dogs, you're trying to just stuck. But you have to hope what the Niners did.

You know, you pay Jimmy G. And you hope you get to Super Bowl. The last seven minutes of the game, he makes the two throws he needs to make you with the Super Bowl. That's the hope I think for Dak Prescott. If everything else kind of works around you, your schedule breaks for you, you get to Super Bowl,

the past five minutes of game, he needs the two throws he has to make. And then Pam Holmes did it. Jimmy G didn't do it. That's why the runner did when the Super Bowl. among many reasons, and you have to pay in that hope. Otherwise, you're stuck.

What do you do for Dallas? You're too low in the draft to get Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, in my opinion, is not a guy, Jake Fromm, Easton, those guys, you're not taking the first-round fire on those guys. So what do you do if you're the Cowboys?

You're kind of stuck. Jeff Schwartz, this is the kind of stuff that you get and the Jeff Schwartz is smarter than you podcast. It kind of stuck. It is. That's what you get. You're stuck. Yes.

Cowboys. What is nothing to do? I don't know. I don't know there's nothing. nothing to do. We do have the tendency to do what we've always done, right? The Brady thing doesn't seem to be a one that would work. Neither would be, neither would, uh, uh, would get in Philip Rivers, but, you know, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Marriota. Is, are those better than Jack Prescott, though? I don't know, but I, I will tell you, I will tell you, I will tell you something.

They won't cost you, they won't cost you, they won't cost you $40. They won't cost you $40. Yeah, I would not pay that $40 million. I wouldn't pay him 35. million. I don't know if it's franchise them. They offer 33 already, so they obviously feel comfortable in some asses. Well, there's also a value to having cost certainty with a, with a quarterback, right? That's what his value is, he's solid, he's consistent, he doesn't get hurt, it's cost certain. But it's like Draymond Green.

Like, he can't do it on his own. He just, he can't. But there's only five quarterbacks in NFL are doing on their own, though. I mean, and I think that's the thing we have to realize about the NFL is. Right, so those guys should make $35 million. Everybody else should make in the 20 million. Well, exactly. Gilly, but it doesn't work that way in the NFL.

Maybe it should. Maybe it should. Great stuff. Thanks so much, Jeff. All right, take care of, but. All right, coming up next, the Philadelphia 76ers got a win last night. It's not just one win, but would I be very cautious if I was Philly? That's next. I'm Doug Gottlie.

This is the Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the HARD weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the Internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker

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This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like, Lebronnell. Ron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves,

I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us. us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Valentine's Day is just two days away. Oh, damn, wait, remember. So you need to act fast with

1,800flowers.com today. You can get 24 stem, colorful red, excuse me, colorful rose medley for just 2999. Upgrade to 24 red roses for only $10 more. To order, go to 100flowers.com, enter the code heard. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin.

So here's what happened last night in the NBA. Rockets, small ball, beat the Celtics. Whoever convinced Russell Westbrook to not shoot threes, I tip my hat to you. Like you have, you have, you have solved one of the world's great mysteries. Why does he keep shooting shots he cannot make? But I saw this one.

Ben Simmons had a triple double, 26, 12, and 10. The 76ers beat the Clippers. 110, 103. Joel Embed had 26. Tobias Harris had 17 and 12. Josh Richardson was great in the fourth quarter. It had 17 of his 21 in the fourth quarter. Kauai was awesome.

The rest of the clippers outside of Lowe. Andrew Shammit, not so much. I know it feels it feels like you got to split up, Mbied and Simmons. Doesn't it feel that way? It feels, I mean, Colin has asked about it. A lot of people have talked about it. I believe Joel

M. Bede, and we've talked about small ball, but one of the reason that small ball works is because there are very few NBA centers who can score with their back to the basket, defend the rim, shoot in the perimeter, the basketball. Joel Embedde is one of those guys. He is a unicorn. M. Bedeed is a unicorn. He can do it all. He doesn't always do it all. He's not always in great shape. I am

always concerned about a guy's health when his body is broken down so readily. And look, let's just be honest. This is one of the things with foreign players. We don't know what his what his body was like growing up, what his nutrition was like growing up, if his body's going to continue to break down. I think Embed is the more transcendent player. But that's not because I don't think Simmons is awesome. I do, but Simmons got to shoot the ball at some point.

I'd be cautious about breaking him up. And I use Kobe and Shaq as an easy parallel as to why. Right? I mean, they're a bucket away from beating the Raptors last year. Bucket. That hit the front rim twice and the back room twice. Four bounces and backboard goes in. Otherwise, I think that game goes overtime, whatever, but doesn't matter.

Point is, they're that, it is closed. Look, I don't think this was the job that Brett Brown was brought in to do. Brett Brown was brought in to be a stabilizing force when they went through, epic and complete suckitude, right? When they were awful, he was, like, just solid. Del Harris wasn't the guy in L.A., they brought in Phil Jackson. They won three titles. Doug Collins is a great basketball mind, really good coach.

Couldn't get past the Eastern Conference Final. They brought in Phil Jackson. They win six titles. Now, I don't know who the modern-day Phil Jackson is. I don't know if, you know, if it's Jeff Van Gundy. I don't know who that guy is. But I know that I'd be very, very cautious of jettisoning in one of these two players because you're not sure if you can get it to work together.

Because in the regular season, guys aren't getting along. Shack and Kobe had trouble getting along. They did. Shack and Kobe did. But eventually they found the right guy. I know eras have changed. And I understand you could build an entire team of shooters around Ben Simmons or around Joel Embed, and you might win more regular season games.

But whoever has more great players tends to win in the playoffs, and that was almost the case last year. Just be very cautious. Something's happening in the NBA, which I believe is the opposite of what baseball is trying to do. That's next time. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Hurt. One more HARD?

The HARD streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search HARD to listen. or on demand whenever you'd like. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlie. Filling in for Colin Cowherd. Radio only today, kids. Let's get, wow, let's get wacky.

Let's tip our cap to the Houston Rockets who, they figured out something that a lot of of us who played basketball always wondered about either our team that we were on or a team that we watched. Right. Like, hey, coach, what if we just played our five best players? Like, no, we've got to have a big guy out there. Why? Well, I don't know.

Don't you have to have a big guy out there? Or you just put your best five players out there. I watched the Rockets play last night as they beat. the Boston Celtics at home. And I know what happens is people say, you know, people say small sample size Gottlieb. They beat the Lakers great. They lost two. What was it? The Sons. And who else did they lose to? They turned around right after I went on. It's like, hey, this is kind of a win for analytics. Yeah. And, yeah, I lost to jazz and the buzzer beater. Like, okay, you're not going to win every game. Secondly, when they lost to the Sons, they didn't have two of their best players.

I didn't play in the game. It was on a back-to-back. And oh, yeah, by the way, they expended a ton of energy beating the Lakers, a game that everybody cares about against the Suns. The team that doesn't. And their bench isn't good. Their bench scored five points last night out of 116. Like, right, the real flaw to the Rockets is not going to be small ball. I don't believe they'll be beaten in the playoffs because of small ball.

I believe they'll be beaten the playoffs because they have no depth. right at some point guys wear down somebody gets hurt you're going to need some depth and they when austin rivers is your answer off the bench like yeh yikes yikes anyway um but i was i was look when you watch zion williamson play when you watch zion williamson play go watch all the highlights of last night he had 31 points he was amazing amazing but look at who he's going against. Hassan Whiteside is guarding him. Like Osama, Portland.

Hassan Whiteside is the center. By design. A sign white side is guarding Zion Williamson. Why? Because Zion Williamson is playing center. Occasionally it was Carmelo Anthony. It was the power forward. There was a couple times Trevor Reasons guarding him. Trevor Reesons is a small forward.

He got caught on a switch. And Zion is just too strong for him. Just too strong. And look, most of them are rolling. to the hoop or putbacks or just athletic plays where somebody's not paying attention to him. I know he hit four threes in that first NBA game. You're like, wow, if he can shoot. Do you know how many three Zion women since played nine games?

In the eight games since, he hit four threes and had 17 consecutive points. You know how many threes he's made? The same number I've made. The same number of Gule has made. The same number Greg Tui's made. Not one. So let's not overreact to one great game shooting the basketball. that's what needs to be added to his game in order to make those guys come out and guard him.

But the pelicans are using him in a brilliant way. There's a small ball five and there's a power forward. I remember there's a player a guy named Derek Williams. You guys remember Derek Williams? He was the second, yeah, La Marotta High School. This is true story. He ended up like, Sean Miller gets to Arizona for. from Xavier. And he had, it was a weird hire because he had no West Coast ties, and he really didn't hire a West Coast assistant. But USC was getting in trouble for the O.J. Mayo deal. Right. So USC lost their entire recruiting class because they were all thought they were going on probation.

Momo Jones and Derek Williams, they end up at the last second getting out of their commitment to USC and going to Arizona. Derek Williams goes to Arizona. his last year at Arizona, he shot like, I'm going to say almost 60% from three point range. And so at the time, and this is only, can you guys look at what year Derek Williams came out? I'm going to say it's like 07. A lot of people like to pick out that I undersold Steph Curry. You're like, oh, you said this about Steph Curry and Rubio. I did. Listen, so it's only nine years ago.

Wow, it's amazing. I did. I missed on Steph Curry. I thought he would be a Jeff Hornacek type because he wasn't a point, he wasn't a two, I didn't feel like he'd guard, I didn't know what his body would fill in and be like, and he's become one of the greatest players in the history of the NBA,

two-time MVP, first ever unanimous MVP. It's okay, like, you know, you're going to miss. A lot of people missed. The Timberwolves missed twice. I'm not sure he becomes Steph Curry if he gets drafted by the Timberles. Oh yeah, by the way, the Golden State Warriors when they were trading for Andrew Bogot,

they told the Milwaukee Bucks, and this is documented, I said it before it was ever documented, they told the Milwaukee Bucks, Montay Ellis or Steph Curry. We don't think they can play together. Pick one. The Bucks chose Monta Ellis. So not only did the Bucs not know,

Warriors didn't even know what they had. They didn't. But that's okay. If you go back and look, when Derek Williams came out, he was the number two pick of some of Timberwolves. And I was like, you can Google what I wrote about him. I don't see it. He's playing the four or the five in college,

and you want him to be a two, three? Like, it's a completely different, defensively different movements, offensively different shots. He's open because he's guarded by college slug big guys. The genius to Sean Miller was he had him play down two positions. if Derek Williams came out of college now, he wouldn't have to change positions.

Like, he wouldn't be Zion Williamson because Zion's ability to guard to score in the post is just better. But his career would have been better, would have been longer and more effective if he didn't have to switch positions and go to being a guard. I also think that the NBA,

the renaissance of the NBA began when they listened to their fans or even their haters. We didn't like the way the Knicks played and the heat played. They were fighting and hand-checking in, scoring in the 80s and throw it inside. There's a double team and kick it out. We didn't like that. We like free-flowing, free movement. We liked up and down and people shooting threes.

and though the NBA's regular season doesn't do great in terms of ratings, I think that's more because there's just too many damn games on, right? They're on all the time. There's no important game ever on TV. The fact is the NBA is a lot more watchable now in terms of style. The rocket style is watchable. The buck style is watchable.

You've got a great athlete who has space to be a great athlete and make these incredible dunks instead of always getting banged around and end up at the free throw line. Major League Baseball is, listening to us. Major League Baseball is talking about expanding their playoffs to 14 teams. And I get what they're trying to do. They're like, hey, what's the best playoff system? Ooh, ooh, I love March Madness and the selection show. Let's have our own selection show. Oh, good idea, Jimmy. What are we going to do? How are we going to have a selection show?

We're going to have a reveal? No, no. We'll have the top seeds pick who they're going to play. I like it. Write it down. Put it on the board. let's figure it out. Has anyone ever had a problem with Major League Baseball's playoffs? Right? Like, that's just me. Every memory I have outside of Bo Jackson hitting a home run in Anaheim Stadium that still hasn't landed in the All-Star game. Outside of that, just about every baseball memory I have of a moment is playoff baseball.

Playoff baseball is so exponentially more exciting and better than regular season baseball. It's a joke. Right? Why are we doing the more is more thing there? Look, I've always thrown out the suggestion. Why do relief pitchers warm up in the bullpen where they have a mound and a plate? The mound can be a replica of the regular mound, and it's the exact same distance. Why do you get to warm up on the field?

Nobody does that. It's not like Jamal Crawford's, you know, Mr. Sixth Man of the Year or how many times over. It's not like when he checks into the game, Jamal can go like, hey, hold on, guys, let me get a couple shots up. Right? In football, when you change quarterbacks or change running backs, not like, hold on, let's play a little catch on the field. You want to speed up baseball? Why do you get to warm up? Why do you get to warm up?

They have layup lines before the game and a halftime. Not during the game. You know, I think you can make the regular season more exciting if you had in-house betting. you had a section, you know, it can be a right field where every, you've got to be 21 or older, you get a laptop, you get an iPad, not a laptop, iPad, you get one of those deals where you can run your credit card, you can bet on every pitch, going to be a curveball, going to get a hit, whatever, make a little more exciting. Maybe you have weighted games, you know, you have one game that's weighted more in terms

of the playoffs or bonuses or, I don't know, there's lots of things. Fix the regular season. No one has ever, has anyone ever gone like, you know what I don't know, I don't know like? I don't like postseason baseball. I don't like postseason baseball. You're not actually addressing the problem. The problem is your season is too long. The problem is your season at the end

and the most important time that everybody loves coincides with football season, which is more popular. The problem is you have teams in Tampa that should have been moved a long time ago, but you won't move it because you're like, well, you know, we can't know. Move your team.

You can sit here and tell me you don't, like Roger Goodell. Oh, I don't like Roger Red Guy. This is that. Roger Goodell has fixed his business 10 times over, right? I mean, for 25 years, they didn't have a team in L.A. He's like, all right, let's get two.

Vegas growing burgeoning market. Oakland can't support an NFL team. Let's get them out of there. Let's get him to Vegas. Make it happen. By the time Roger Goodell is done, mark this down. Today's date is February 12, 2020. It is 11-11. Write this down.

Roger Delt will leave his job as commissioner of the NFL with the NFL on all five major networks. It'll be on CBS, on NBC, of course it'll be on Fox, it'll be on ESPN, and I'll be on ABC. It's never been done before. No professional sport has ever been on every network and cable

and the biggest cable outlet. That'll happen. Right? Because he listened to you. He knows what the customer, the customer has an insatiable desire for football. And he'll figure out a way to make everybody continue to pay more, more money. It was just like Thursday night football.

Like network TV was dying on Thursday. Thursday night used to be much, must-see TV, right? Remember we used to watch NBC and we're like, ooh, Cosby into all those other shows that were in between Cosby and Cheers. It's a different world. Right? and then it was into cheers. And then eventually Friends was on Thursday night

and Seinfeld and whatever. But Thursday night went away and he was like, you know what we should do? Put NFL football on Thursday night. Ooh, you know what we should do? Put it on the NFL network but also put it on network TV. Oh, we should split it up. Oh, Fox wants to, fine, we'll give Fox better games.

There we go, done. Meanwhile, Rob Manfred's screwing up the one part of baseball everybody likes. Nobody's ever going like, hey, we should fix the playoffs. The playoffs are great. Fix everything else. else. How about getting it so they're not banging trash cans every time there's a breaking ball? So we actually know who's legitimately the best team. You know, what are we doing?

You don't fix the best part. You fix the broken part or the unwatchable part. That's what the NBA did. That's what the NFL's done. NFL's like, teams aren't throwing it enough. It's not exciting. You know what we'll do? You can't hit the quarterback below the knee and above the neck. you can't touch a wide receiver beyond five years, but five yards. Meanwhile, Major League Baseball is like, oh, oh, you like playoff baseball. Let's ruin it.

And let's leave the regular season as is. Canadians versus Bruins is today's Discover card key matchup. Discover matches all the cashback you earn on your credit card at the end of your first year. Even more amazing because Discover is accepted over 95% of the place in the U.S. that take credit cards. Learn more. Discover.com slash yes,

2019 Nielsen reports limitations apply. Hockey's done at two. Three on three in overtime. Three on three in overtime. All right, coming up next. Nick Swisher is going to join us. How would he fix baseball? And baseball has said they're not going to put an asterisk by the Astros World Series.

How do players feel about the players not getting any punishment? By the next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo SlicLife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I gather. manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nasree. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball like.

After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Doug out leaving for Colin. This is the herd. The weather can be unpredictable on the roads, but that doesn't mean it can't be tamed. Michelin Endurance XT Silicon Wiper Blades are the real, a real world proven for extreme weather performance, lasting two times longer than other blades.

new Michelin Endurance X-T silicone wiper blades. Today only available at Walmart. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. Let's welcome in Nick Swisher. Quick programming note, especially if you listen to 570 a.m. in L.A., Mookie Betts and David Price. David Price. I'm kidding.

The Mickey Betts and David Price, their introductory press conference on the long-awaited trade with the Red Sox and the Dodgers. 1 p.m. today will be carried live, I'm sure, on AM 570, from Dodgers Stadium. Let's start with that, Swish. Look, the Dodgers need right-handed hitting. They bring in a guy who is an MVP, a little bit of a down year before.

Does this put them over the top? Oh, I mean, come on, bro. You're bringing over an MVP to a team that has already been to the World Series multiple times. I mean, I think this is a huge move moving forward for the Los Angeles Dodgers. I even think keeping Jack Peterson,

I think it was an awesome move. I think he's a locker room guy. I think they've got so many different weapons over there. I think what you're going to see moving forward is a better David Price. I think this is going to rejuvenize him. I think this is going to bring that swag back. And I think you're going to see him back at the top of his game. Clayton Kershaw is going to be pushed as well.

Dave Roberts has got some tools over there. He's got an unbelievable opportunity to win. And hopefully they can make that happen. Okay. Well, wait, wait, wait, I love you. But where is Jack Peterson going to play? How many outfields? They're going to play with five outfielders?

Right? Hey, I'm just saying it's not all about the talent you have in that locker room. I got it, but they're going to move Jack Peterson anyway, right? I mean, they trade him once. They'll trade him again. Well, I tell you what, he has to feel a little left out at this situation. You get traded away, and then all of a sudden, then they're like, no, no, no. The trade fell through.

So now you're back. You feel kind of icky a little bit. I'm interested to see, bro. I mean, if you do keep him, everybody in that locker room knows him. He's been there since his rookie year. he knows what that organization is about and he brings value to that locker room uh Trevor Bowers an LA guy right Hart High School UCLA uh never shy with words he said oh bro did you see that hold on I will I will read it I'll read it for people yes I saw it I want to read for people who

didn't Nick Swisher's our guest Doug Gottlie filling in for Colin so Major League Baseball proposed these new this new playoff format 14 teams in like the best teams can pick who they want to play here's Trevor Bauer. His Twitter handle is out, Bauer outrage, perfect Twitter handle. No idea who made this playoff format proposal, but Rob, Robin Rob Manfred, is responsible for releasing it,

so I'll direct this to you, Rob Manfred. Your proposal is absurd, too many reasons to type on Twitter, and proves you have absolutely no clue about baseball. You're a joke. Oh, man, that's like, that's firm, right? You think? I mean, super firm.

Like, how do you speak that way to somebody? Well, you didn't. He tweeted. He tweeted it. It's very different. Yeah. I mean, that's the commissioner of our day. Yes.

I don't know, man. I mean, everybody can be themselves, and I always preach. You've got to be you. But at the end of the day, you've got to have respect as well. And I don't know, man. Whether the format was bad or not, it doesn't matter, man. You know, maybe he's getting what he wants. We are talking about him on this show.

So maybe he's getting what he wants. Okay, so what are your thoughts on this proposal? playoff format. I understand what the commissioner's trying to do. Remember, man, like baseball is a little bit behind football and basketball when it comes to the, you know, the youth watching and the excitement level. So I think what the commissioner's doing is he's trying to make it cooler. He's trying to make it younger.

He's trying to make it where more people pay attention to it. And I can't blame him for that. I'm not quite sure that maybe that format is the perfect one, but I can't fault the commissioner for trying to move the game forward, trying to be progressive, trying to keep up with the time, do things that people want to see. Because everybody loves the drama

within a television show and everyone loves the drama within sporting events. Why not be able to try to combine the two? So I see where he's at, you know, I think there could be some tweaks. But at the end of the day, I applaud him for being progressive

and trying to move our game forward to catch ourselves up with the other big two. Yeah, I just, I don't, no one's ever thought baseball's playoffs are the problem. It's the regular season or pace of play or, you're right, resonance with, you know, with teenagers, the coolness of it.

I don't know how this makes it cooler. Yeah, man, like when's the last time, like, there's one shoe out there I know for baseball, the Mike Trout. No, there's two. I want to see some other ones, bro. Give me some, give me some, you know, give me some nasty, like, I don't know,

Ronald O'Koonier Jr. Give me some of those, you know? Have to swag the game out a little bit. Move it forward with our youth so we can continue to keep this game great. There is. There's one other shoe that actually, like, look, I have a 10-year-old son, so I actually feel like I'm pretty in tune with some of, like, and I'm getting more and more in terms of my baseball culture.

What's his name with the Francisco Lindor? Like, his, honestly, like his new balances are kind of cool, and the kids either wear travel. or wear lenders, that's it. Yep. Nick Swisher, Nick Swisher joining us. What are your feelings about the Astros?

The players have never been punished. Everybody else has gotten punished, but the players have not, and the more the athletic digs in, it appears that this was, basically, you know, Carlos Beltron was kind of the ringleader. How do you and other players view those players not being punished? Have you spoke on this topic yet?

Did you have an opinion on this one yet? I do. I thought they should. Look, I think they should have asterisk or taken away the World Series. You don't need to declare anybody else. I think that's the only way to do. There was no World Series champion that year. Yeah, I just like, look, they got caught cheating.

I know. I don't know. It is crazy. And I know that baseball, and I know that players can, one of the great things about baseball is it does police itself, right? But, like, how many high and tight fastballs make up for the fact that Clayton Kirshaw, this is his legacy. And part of his legacy is game six in Houston,

and we cannot erase that from our minds, and they refuse to erase it from the record books. So I'm sure there's lots of guys that are ticked about it. I just wonder what you think and what other players think. Yeah, I even think there's a player out there now that's suing the Astros for, I think, $31 million because his start more than any other starts, The trash can was more in effect in his, and I think he gave up something like eight runs and maybe never had the opportunity to pitch in the big leagues again.

I think there's a lot of factors that go into this. I'm with you on this. I think that the title should be stripped, and it should just be an asterisk year. There was no World Series champion that year. Because the ickiness on that organization and the ickiness on that championship trophy is so bad right now that I don't think it's very fathomable for people to even understand or feel, bad about these guys because people don't like two things. They don't like liars. They don't like cheaters. And this is, this organization did both of those things. And I think that all of these

players that now are somehow, you know, anonymously coming down on Carlos Beltron, well, of course you can pound on him. He's not in the game anymore. Of course you can blame it on that guy. So I'm interested to see what the Houston Astro guys say because they will have had enough time now to have gained the right story moving forward because you haven't heard much from Alex Bregman on social media. You haven't heard much from Justin Verlander on social media. There's been a lot of quietness over there with the Houston Astros this year, and I am really interested just as much as everybody else is, give me something. Don't have all this stuff be behind closed doors.

Tell us what happened, because at the end of the day, that's what we want to do. We want to try and get to the bottom of it. I don't know. I think it's just, there's a lot of craziness. going over there right now. Spring train is going to be very interesting for them as well as the Boston Red Sox moving forward. Yeah. Yeah. And the Red Sox seemed to

trading mooky bets seems to signal, hey, like we're going to play for next year, not for this year. Last thing, and this is a little bit off, a little bit off topic. Shohei Otani is going to be cleared. Apparently to pitch they believe by May.

And kind of like Lost in this is, before he got hurt, like dude was considered by a couple of my friends who play Major League Baseball, the best player in the sport because he was one of the better pitchers and one of the best hitters. Which is crazy, which is like Little League stuff. That's never been done.

He's like a real life Kelly Leak. Yes, he's Kelly Leak. That's a great point without the motorcycle, and he doesn't look like Steve Nash. Yeah, you have those bad pants at the time, you know? Yes. What's the likelihood he returns coming off of Tommy John? and he's spent a lot of time away.

Tommy John, he returns anywhere near that form this year. Pitching. Oh, bro. Hey, I hope it happens, man. Because in my mind, that's the quiet, dark horse this year in the American League, is the Los Angeles Angels of Anahom. I'm telling you what, you bring over Rendon, you've got Mike Trout. All of a sudden, you know, I think with everything that Upton's doing with the changing of his number,

there's a lot of good things going on over there. Joe Madden is now the manager. Yeah. I think there's a lot of great. things happening for them. And if they can get this, if they can get anything to what they think they can from Shohei offensively as well as they can with him on the mound, I'm telling you what, man, that ALS better be ready because the angels are coming. And there's a lot of great things that Joe Madden brings along with him and swag is one of them. And I think that's the one thing

that that team has been missing for a long time. And if I'm telling you what, if Shohei does his thing, Randone does his thing, Trout sticks to being the MVP. There's going to be some interesting competition out there in the West for sure. No question, especially with the Astros kind of being dethroned here and, you know, losing their best pitcher to the Yankees and all the other stuff that goes with it, it allows kind of that there's a void there. Obviously, the A's

have been a better team and a better run franchise, but we'll see. Swish, great stuff. You need to have some coffee. When are we playing tennis? I know that's what I'm saying, man. I want to get out there, bro. Hey, me and you, bro, we'll do it for the gram, you know? We will do it for the gram. It. Nick Swisher, Fox Sports, Major League Baseball.

See you soon, Swish. Thanks so much. All right, homie. Nick Swisher makes coffee nervous. Makes coffee nervous. Look at you, John Gullet with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Boy, he has some energy, huh? Never. Just woke me up. I'm good to go now. So there's been a lot of noise surrounding 76er's center, Joel Embed, after some Instagram comments, and he's kind of... He did it for the Graham. He does a lot for the gram. When he got introed last night, at home, he got booed.

Then he went out, had a hell of a game, 27 points. 76ers beat the Clippers 1-10-2-10-1-03. He was asked if he had expected to hear booze from the home crowd. A little bit. But that's cool. Tonight, you know, I could have, you know, shushing me game. But, you know, but it was all about having fun again, you know, just getting back to myself. Like I said, an ice game, after an ice game.

I think when he's having fun, he's certainly a better player. Do you think the 76ers are still a threat in the East, given the talent they have, even though they're obviously further down in the playoff rankings? Yes. I absolutely think they're a threat to use. No question. Would you put them as the set?

I mean, the bucks are the favorite, obviously. Are they number two? Yeah. Yeah, what not? Like right there, I mean, Celtics, obviously, I think, are in that conversation as well. But the Sixers have more talent than most of these teams. Yes.

They have a very talented roster. You know, I mean, like, look, a lot of Boston's going to come. Like, is Jason Tatum ready for that level? Jalen Brown and Gordon, what will Gordon Hayward look like? I mean, I think they're close. I didn't like the Hal Hortford deal. I just, why do we need another big guy? Why?

Because the 76ers team motto is, let's just be taller. Yeah, that felt like, and I don't know how much say Elton Brand has in that level of decision, even though as a general manager, like sometimes that comes from other places. But if that's on Elton Brand, like, what are we doing now, dude? What are we doing? But there's no reason to believe that they can't win four out of seven against, they are just as likely to win four out of seven against any of those teams as vice versa. So last week, Hall of Fame Wide Receiver, Michael Irvin, suggested that some powerful people in Dallas were discussing the possibility. of moving on from Dak Prescott and bringing in Tom Brady. Obviously, the internet reacted accordingly to that.

He then walked back those comments over the weekend, saying that it was not Jerry or Stephen Jones that said it. He's now going even further, saying, quote, I said what somebody said, that should no way be taken as those are my thoughts on what should happen. Ain't no way in the world that should happen. That would be insane. Are you kidding me?

Are you out of your mind? It's over for Tom. So not only does he now not think that's going to happen, but he now thinks Tom Brady is just done overall, apparently. Is he going too far? Yes. Did he back up the car through another wall by mistake? Yes.

He's doing the Frank Pantangeli. We played it for you earlier. Frank Pantangeliaglii, Godfather, too. Michael Coyone. Oh, no, no, no. It's the FBI guys. They just told me. The sword statements.

Right. Yeah. You said this. Like, oh, no. they offered me a deal. You know, they offered me a deal. Yeah. To go from Tom Brady, you know, I heard Tom Brady to the Cowboys to Tom Brady's done.

I mean, that is a remarkable 180. And hard to believe. Somebody got to him. That's what happened. I thought maybe somebody got to him in the first place. Maybe Jerry said, hey, why don't you say that we're Tom Brady's possible because it'll help our negotiations? My favorite part of the quote was when he's like, you know, I was drinking a couple of cranberry vodka's. Like, too much information.

And why? You just start off every, anytime you're going to say something that could be controversial, should you lead off with cocktails? That way you have your now. I like that. Oh, I had a couple drinks. I had a couple drinks. Okay. Because I like, I'll like, oh, that makes a lot more sense, Michael.

Thank you. And finally, the Chargers and Phillip Rivers have parted ways. Rivers, however, does not think he is as done playing as I think many people think he should be. He told Sam Farmer, the L.A. Times, I know I have the passion for the game that I think is going to last my lifetime. And I think I have the ability left to go play at a high level. You are the lone member of the Media Chargers fan club. You are a big defender of Phil or have been a big defender of the... We had a meeting about this last night, me and my lone member.

We had Jeff Schwartz on earlier who said he thinks actually it's more likely River. becomes a broadcaster before he ever plays another NFL game. I think he'd be amazing. Do you think there is a good spot for him? It's kind of like Brady where Indy's the only one. Okay. I mean, there'll be people that say Tampa because it's warm and Bruce Aaron. Yeah, we've talked about it.

Tampa doesn't fit his style. No. They like to throw the ball deep and he... He does go deep to the other team. Yeah. Like, look, I love Philip Rivers. Okay, I love Philip Rivers. I think he's a great player, a great competitor or was.

Yeah. He's a Hall of Famer. I believe he's a better quarterback than Eli Banny. Yep. But he single-handedly lost them four games last year. When they played the Raiders, remember the Raider game? Yeah. Up in Oakland.

When, what was it, overtime, whatever, he threw the ball eight times, no completions, zero. Go watch the tape. Like, he kept throwing the ball down the field when there's guys open underneath. Like, he has the best underneath guys in the league. He's got Austin Echler. He's got Hunter Henry, Keenan, Keenan. Allen's a great like and he keeps throwing the ball deep. Mike Williams, what are you doing?

This is this weird thing this year where when the plays broke down, he just kind of lobbed it up. Yes. And that's not what veteran quarterbacks do. Yeah. The Detroit game. That's a James thing. They're playing. Yeah, they're playing in Detroit.

And they're driving for a game winning field goal or, and he throws the ball deep. When he's got Austin Neckler for a check, it throws interception. He was awful this year. And I can only think that the reason he did it was he knows he doesn't have the arm strength. And so he's got to, you know, gas. guess early and he kept guessing wrong. Yeah. Because that's not his style. I think that Frank Reich was

his favorite coordinator and quarterback coach he ever had. It's a dome. They have a good offensive line. And they're not sold in Jacob and Bruce. That feels like the only possible destination. I'm not a buyer into Tampa. I mean, Bruce Arons knows, it's forgotten more about quarterback play than I'll ever know. I will say to what Jeff

Schwartz says, he would be a great broadcaster. Great. Great. I'm just listen, if you want to, you I'm not friends with Philip Rivers. You can Google Doug Gottlie, Philip Rivers. Every year we go down and do Chargers Camp, and he and he comes on and talks for like a half hour.

And you think, are we best friends? He's amazing. Yeah. He's amazing. I think if I'm CBS and I lose Romo, if I'm ESPN and I don't get Romo, or, you know, we already have, obviously, Troy and great guys, but he'd be an incredible broadcaster.

And that's John Gle with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd line news. You know, it's interesting. I think that the Romo final dollar figure is one of the reasons that Breeze is considering, because I think Breeze would be really good as well. Breeze is good.

I think Rivers would be better because he has that southern kind of awes shucks, you know, but either would be amazing. But I think that, you know, no one's ever been able to make more than $5 million as a color analyst. Jakeman's got to love this, right? He's like, I just crushed it in the Super Bowl that had an incredible year. Like, he wants to run, Roma, I'm sure to get paid. But I would guess that that's why those guys are like, you know, I could go back and play and get my head beaten in and have to go through OTAs, or I can make, you know,

seven, eight figures broadcasting. Come on next, speaking of quarterbacks and Breeze, one would think that Teddy Bridgewater would be the heir apparent. That's not the case. Wait to hear what a former coordinator in New Orleans said about Taysome Hill. Find out next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottliebun for Colin, this is the Herd, Valentine's Day, just two days away, so you need to act fast.

I'm going to 800 Flowers.com. Today, you can get 24 stem colorful rose medley for just $299, upgraded to 24 red roses for $10 more. To order, go to 1,800flowers.com, enter the code herd. Colin will be back tomorrow. Tomorrow. I'm Doug Gottliebin for Colin Coward. Mike Westoff is a former special teams coordinator for the Saints, not last year, the two previous years. Of course, Taysam Hill was a special team's star, and then he became their red zone quarterback at times over the past two years. Since moving on, and of course, Westoff was a special teams coach from 86 and 2018, said, take a look at Baltimore. It's the same kind of guy.

Tassam Hill does those same kind of things. I think he throws better. If Hill were to become a starter with the Saints, he said, I think you'll see an offense similar to Baltimore. That he can do a lot of different things. And Sean Payton is extremely qualified coach. He's very, very creative. So here's what's funny about that.

There are a lot of people that what they do is they, they do the race thing when you say, hey, like I've said, I'm just not a buyer into Lamar Jackson long term. You can show me Lamar Jackson's numbers and how he's improved in his accuracy. He has. He was inaccurate as a college quarterback. Colin has pointed that out, and I pointed this out as well. Please don't do me do the commercials of Lamar Jackson somehow being done wrong by the NFL

because every team passed on him, including the Baltimore Ravens passed on him. right he was the first round pick it's not like he went undrafted Tony Romo went undrafted i haven't seen any commercials about Tony Romo going on going from undrafted to quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys to lead broadcaster CBS and we all wanted to be about something it's not right we wanted to be about something it's not look when Lamar jackson was getting ready for the NFL draft his mom was his agent he was very very evasive about workouts at the combine when he sat and it's quick meetings he wasn't great and the people i talked to said like look you had baker mayfield who really knew how to win a room

and was great at the whiteboard and sam donald and josh rosen then he had lamar jackson who's just a nice, quiet kid, but was way behind in terms of speaking the true language of NFL football. All we have to go on is what we see on tape, and if you watch his last bowl game, it was bad. What's happened previously, we've had plenty of running quarterbacks who haven't been accurate enough to be NFL quarterbacks or haven't stayed healthy, RG3, into league. And, you know, it's a position of leadership. And at the time, in a room full of people he didn't know, he wasn't really comfortable. Additionally, you would call his mom and say, hey, can we get a workout?

And they wouldn't call you back. Whereas every other quarterback you called and they say, tell us when we'll be there. Really hard to evaluate that way. Tasum Hill was a hard evaluation because he was always heard in college. People forget it. At BYU, he had a couple incredible games. Then he would get hurt.

I've talked to Sean Payton at the Super Bowl, and Sean Payton said, that guy's a starting quarterback in the NFL. Remember, Sean Payton. is the guy who discovered Tony Romo. More than called the plays and helped Drew Breeze become a Hall of Famer. He's the one who discovered Tony Romo. So, you know, like, look, I don't even think it's a slight on Teddy Bridgewater, who everybody thinks is great.

Teddy's going to get a job. Breeze can have a job or may go into TV, and Taste the Mail could be the guy. What's funny to me is the same people that claim, you know, they basically make, basically do that it must be racism because he's, He's a black quarterback with Lamar Jack, which is not accurate because no one said that about Russell or Pat Mahomes. No, no one, it's just about his level of accuracy in college and at times in the pros. And the idea that we've seen this style of football, like Kaepernick ran it, he's a better runner than Kaepernick. He might be a better thrower than Kaepernick.

But the league did figure it out. Vince Young, to a lesser extent, RG3, they tried to make him into a pro-style quarterback. Credit Baltimore with not trying to make him. something that he's not, but this style has had limits in the past. People have figured. Tarad Taylor, people figured it out when Greg Roman was there in Buffalo.

But it's funny, the same people that thumb their nose that think critics have it all wrong about Lamar are the same people going, you can't tell me that Tayson Hill throws better than Lamar. Okay? Maybe he does. He may not, and he's

crazy athletic. Maybe not like Lamar who's probably the most athletic guy to ever play the position. he's a freak and if Lamar can improve as a thrower which he has from year one to year two can continue to improve well I couldn't taste him home I don't know it's it's going to be absolutely

absolutely fascinating fascinating stuff we played for you the sound of Dave Tepper this is the owner of the Carolina Panthers when asked about Cam Newton and if he'll be back because Cam said hey when I'm healthy I'll be

back, take a listen. Listen, I'm not a doctor. And I said it a million times, is he healthy? I mean, he's not a doctor. So, you know, there's a lot of different things can happen. But first is, is he healthy? Tell me that, and then we can talk. That's not the

undying support of an owner that can't wait until a star quarterback comes back. When he's healthy, this is his team. That's the undying support of an owner of a franchise quarterback. When he's healthy, we can talk completely different conversation.

Are we parsing words? You bet we are. One, that's what we do. And two, that's the reality of it. Rout of it. Smart people say really, really smart things. And they don't walk themselves in the corners. And that's what David Teper, who's a really smart guy did. Last thing, we saw last night, two different versions of small ball, both be crazy effective. If the Houston Rockets don't win in the playoffs, I don't believe it's

because of how they're playing, I just believe it's because they don't have enough guys that can play that way. They're just out of dudes. They scored 116 points, and their starter scored 111 of those points. But the small ball does, it works. There's going to be some bad nights. There's going to be some nights when they don't hit shots, but they get into foul trouble. They get to the bench. Totally different.

That's one of the reasons that teams like to post them up. I just think you just keep attacking, attacking with your normal offense. they get into foul trouble, it becomes House of Cards. And then Zion Williamson has 31 points, but he does so playing center and power forward. Small ball has arrived in 2020, much like Moneyball arrived back with the A's. And the spread offense arrived

with Oklahoma winning the national championship in 2000. These changes have happened. You're going to have to deal with it. You're going to have to adjust to it if you're in those leagues. Collins is back tomorrow. Have a great day. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is The Hurt.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

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