The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Stephen A. Smith

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Legendary sports journalist Stephen A. Smith visits Club Shay Shay to chop it up with Shannon about everything going on in the sports world. Both have experience working with Skip Bayless, so Stephen A. and Shannon share stories from their respective experiences working with Skip at "First Take" and "Undisputed". Stephen A. also dives into the importance of HBCUs, Jayson Tatum being better than Luka Dončić, Devin Booker's "Mamba Mentality" being stronger than Jimmy Butler's, and the real GOAT of the NBA. Is it LeBron James or Michael Jordan? #Volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. It crabs in the barrel mentality, blah, blah, blah.

Nah, man, we're showing something different. Right. You know, first take, I've been blessed and fortunate enough throwing shade on nobody. We've been number one for 12 years. We're going to be number one for 13. It's just that simple. It's just that simple. And damn it if I do it for 15, it's going to be 15.

That's the way that it's going to be. That's how my mentality is. And I don't root for anybody to fail. I just root to be the best. And there's a difference. And as far as I'm concerned, anybody that's with me, we the best. All my life. They're grinding all my life.

Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life. All my life. Then grinding all my life. Sacrifice.

Hustle pay the price. Want a slice. Got the rolling dice. That's why. Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Shee. I am your host Shannon Sharp. I'm also the propriet of Club Shea. And for my first partnership with the volume, I knew I had to land someone big.

He's not big. He's huge. He's ginormous. He's a legendary sports journalist, a featured commentator, premier analyst, famed host, veteran reporter, podcaster, actor, writer, executive producer, businessman, New York Times bestselling author, one of the most recognizable on air personalities, not just sports personality, personalities on television, a cultural icon. And he's also an HBCU alum, Stephen A. Smith. My brother. Bro, we're here. What's up?

We're here. You keep knocking my braces. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry, man. I ain't know I can break anything on you. Oh, yeah, yeah. You can't use right there. Yeah, Bray, I mean, I'm only, I'm going to be able to keep this one because every time I hug somebody comes off.

Yeah, we're good. Bro, how you doing? It's good to see you, bro. How you doing? I promise you I'd be here. I'm here. I need you to tell the people what you went through. because you promised me this because we've been trying to get this thing together for a little over six weeks now.

And I said, Stephen, and can you do Tuesday at noon? Yeah. And you said, I do it. But I want you to tell the people the lengthen which you went through to get here at noon. Well, what happened is that my pastor, for the Christian Cultural Center in New York City, Pastor A.R. Bernard had a fundraising event at a golf tournament in Long Island. Right. And so they were honoring me the night before I came here.

and I had to play some golf, which I don't play. So obviously I have to embarrass myself for a few hours. There's no footage. There's no footage. Not that I know of. Not that I know of. Not that I know of. But for every one good shot I hit, I hit about five to ten bad shots or whatever.

But then after I did that, I promised you I was going to get here in time. So I had to take the private jet, get up here in time. And I flew here last night, got here about two in the morning, woke up at 4.30 to prep for first take. and then did first take and here I am. Bro, that's love. I really appreciate that. Of course. I know you talk about your pastor,

but everybody that comes on, you don't have my own line of cognate. That's right. And I need to get you a bottle, and you'll leave her with a bottle. Ain't around with that. I mean, he knows. Nothing in excess.

Nothing in excess. Nothing in excess. But I want to toast you, bro, because you paved the way for a lot of guys. You made it not just athlete. And I want to give you your flowers, bro. I appreciate you.

I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much, man. Coming from an HBC, U obviously is a very, very big deal. That's something that's near and dear to my heart. I've been an ambassador for HBCU week since around 2019 or so. And in that span, we've generated over, what, about 65 million in scholarships for over, you know, 3,000 students. And so I'm really, really proud of that.

And HBCU's always near and dear to my heart and the basketball coach Clarence Big House games who helped the late great John McClendon in integrating the sport of basketball. they were both HBCU icons and both of them were big time mentors of mine. And they knew I didn't have the game that was going to take me to the next level, but they knew I had the mindset and the tenacity to do what I could to help HBCUs. And all he ever said to me was when I said, what can I do for all that you've done for me? He said, don't forget HBCUs. You make sure that you help any chance you get.

And that's what I've been doing. What I tell people, Stephen, is that when I went to an HB, when I went to Savannah State, I had no idea of the importance or the magnitude of what was going on at the time. It wasn't until much, much later that I realized that I had done something special. So when you're matriculating at Winston-Salem, did you understand what was going on at the time

and how big of a deal it was going to be later? No, I did it, man. All I was trying to do was get my degree and to make sure that I positioned myself to have a career instead of a job. When I'm giving speeches, I constantly say to kids, there's a difference between a job and a career. Right. A job is doing what you have to do to maintain or elevate your quality of life.

Correct. A career is doing what you want to do. Correct. It just so happens to do those things. Yes. And so for me, if you don't have an education, the chances of you being able to pull that off, even with the advent of social media and the opportunities that present themselves, I think it's a misnomer to think that you don't have to have any kind of education whatsoever. and you're going to succeed from a normal perspective. There are abnormal examples, of course.

There's always somebody that breaks the code, but for the most part, you got to go through that terrain. You got to go through that grind. And for me, it was always understanding that. So when I was at Winston-Salem, it was really about getting that degree and getting practical experiences.

I did an internship at the Winston-Salem Journal. I did an internship at the Atlanta Journal of Constitution. Then I came back. I did another internship at the Greensboro News & Recruit. Then back to the Winston-Salem Journal. before I even graduated. And so for me, that was incredibly important establishing that resume

and really, really showing that I was a worthy individual because if I didn't have those internships, something to prove that I was really, really committed by acquiring that level of practical experience, then it was going to be my resume against somebody from a PWI. And if you're somebody from a predominantly white institution, chances are you're going to get the nod

over somebody in an HBCU. So I understood the climb. I understood the, the obstacles that I had to fight off, and that's what I went about the business to do with. Did you always want to go to an HBCU or it just happened?

Bro, it just happened. I didn't even know what an HBCU was until they came to offer me a scholarship. I had no clue. I heard about the United Negro College Fund, Rule Rawls doing that every year. But they ain't never mentioned Savannah State. So I'm like, all I knew about was the big ones,

the Grandin and the Southern University. Yeah, you know about Eddie Robinson. you're Heidi Robertson, but that was about it because the fact is that when you took it at HBCUs, I mean, there's some up north like Bowie State and the Maryland area and the Maryland area and what have you. But for the most part, that's right. But for the most part, they downside.

South, correct. They ain't out west. They ain't in the Midwest. They damn sure ain't on the East Coast. So if you're living in those places, you simply don't know. Right. And you know what? I caught a lot of criticism because I was one of the top prospects

in the state of Georgia when I was coming out. Right. And I said an HBCU, wasn't my first choice. Had I not, had I made, had I not been Prop 48, I mean, I had Georgia, I had Texas, I had Nebraska, I had all the big schools recruiting me. And more times than not, I'm like, but the best thing that I did, Stephen A, is when my former coach, rest of the soul, Bill Davis, came down.

He said, son, if you good, they'll find you. Right. He said, if I was drafting, he said, I would take you number one overall. Wow. He convinced me. And when I had an opportunity to transfer and go to a PWI, right. I couldn't know. Well, I will tell you this.

It's like, and a lot of, and I've said this to a lot of our white brothers and sisters, I'm like, look, ain't nothing like being surrounded by your own. And the advantage of the page, it's the pageantry. It's her own cousin. Oh, my God. He got it. They just don't understand. They just don't understand.

I mean, you know, the bands, the pep rallies. I mean, Lord. The band played the whole game. They ain't know where they got the ball. You got to be quiet. The band plays the entire game. Whether we got the ball or they got the ball. And then you got the ball.

the step shows and you got the saw rhod and you got the frats and you got the park and everybody's coming back from 20 years 30 years 10 years 15 years to stop you're just bring back memories just bring you back men I tell you said man I listen you've heard me listen people see me on TV you hear me complain about a lot of things like you ain't never heard me complain about going in the ABC no no no no no it's the greatest experience I've ever had in my life let me tell you something right now I had a mentor of mine he's God God rest of soul Mr. Robert Devon, he was a telecommunications director at Winston-Salem State, loved him dearly. He had to convince me to graduate on time. I wanted to do internships to delay and postpone graduation. That's how much I was living in life at Winston-Salem. You understand what I'm saying? I mean, and then everybody was like, well, you know what? You'd be a disingenuous because you went and you did an internship in Atlanta.

I was like, have you ever heard of Spelman? Yes. I have. I mean, it's right down the block. That's right down the block. Atlanta just started, and look, Atlanta's always been Atlanta. That's right. It just exploded in the last 20th.

But Atlanta was back, Atlanta back in the 70s. Atlanta was like that. How about that? And then on top of it all, check this out. So you've got to take a route. If you're going down, you're going to I-85. If you're coming up, you're going to 85, I-85 North. You're passing HBCUs in route.

Yes. So it's like, yeah, I mean, what's the sale of them. But I'm stopping. Johnson C. Smith. Yes. You got Johnson, Smith. I mean,

it's Bennett College in Greensboro, all girls. I mean, it's just beautiful. You got Allen. You got Sanctal out of state. Yeah. And T.

It's like, Lord. I mean, I used to take a long ride because, you know, you could cut through and get to Winston-Salle state.

But I used to take the long route because you had to pass through all of them things to get to Winston-Salem. I was like, why would I want to rush? Why would I want to do that? I tell a lot of people,

I tell my white counterparts, I think, I think everybody, should have to experience one semester at an HBCU. Yeah, yeah. To get the field, to get the ambiance of what it's actually like. That's right. And to have some of those teachers, because the professors, Stephen A, I believe they sincerely

cared about Shannon Sharp. I remember going to a class and his name was Haynes Walton. And Stephen A, he'd come to class with a piece of chalk this big in his pocket. And he started writing on the board. I was like, okay, I'm taking notes and everything. And he said on this page, such and such. And in this chapter such and such, well, damn. How he knew all that?

of that every day for like three weeks. So I got the text. I said, I'm going to find out how he knows so much. I started reading text by Haynes Walton. Yep. He wrote him. Damn. He wrote, I know everything.

And from that point on, I felt that every class that I went to, every professor, doctor, they could teach me something. And I was attentive. Now, it didn't hurt that, you know, they were in class, too. That's right.

That's right. So I was at the front of the class. I was there having me a brief case. I had on, you know, on Friday. I had hard bottom shoes on slack. Had me a nice blazer. Pretended like I'm going to beat something one day. Y'all need to go ahead and get on those shape.

That's right. Ain't no question. And listen, they cared. They held you accountable. They did. They felt like they were an extension of the family that you departed from. Right. And they made you feel like if you disappointed,

if you ended up being a disappointment, you disappointed them. Yes. You disappointed yourself. you disappointed your family, you're disappointed your community. It was at a level of accountability. And not only that, they highlighted the obstacles that were waiting for you. So it was like, listen, we've been here, we did it, this was waiting for you. What you're going to do about it?

And there's a sense of pride that kicks in. But more importantly, when you go to an HBCU, I think this is the most important thing for folks to understand, particularly as it pertains to black folks. Usually, in every walk of society, we are alone in certain reasons. respects. Yes. When you go to an HBCU, you got company. Yes. People who look like you, who share your cultural identity, who share your trials and tribulations, the obstacles, the pitfalls, everything. You literally are looking at people hanging with people and talking to people every day where your experiences are not far into them. They all know it. And so they're going

to lift you up unless you don't want to be. When you don't want to be, they know to leave you to the time because you ain't about anything. We're going to stick with people who's about something. And that's self-accountability. And that's self-accountability. ability elevates everybody. I think back, Stephen A, one of the, one of, I started off, I was Prop 48, so I had to start off in developmental studies. Right. Developmental studies is remedial.

Right. So in other words, all you're taking is classes that doesn't go towards graduation. Right. Dr. Joyce McLemore, I never forget, I had a reading class. And after two days, she called me up. She always called me Mr. Sharp. To this day, when I go back and see her in Savannah State, she calls me Mr. Sharp. She says, Mr. Sharp, I don't want to see you in next, next quarter.

Yes. They all say that. She said, you're too smart. She said, you have no business being in this class. Now, Mr. Sharp, I don't want to see you next quarter. She told a story. Everybody, because about that time, I ended up graduating, got my degree in playing in the NFL. She said, y'all see that young man on television?

He was in this very class. But he worked his tail off to get out. And I did. A lot of my teammates were embarrassed. Because, you know, it wasn't a regular class, Stephen. It was a trailer. That's right. And, you know, it was right next to Peacock Hall where I went.

I would go eat breakfast. and walk right up in it just as proud because I wasn't ashamed because I put myself in that situation. See, you shouldn't be ashamed of something that you put yourself in. Right. I put myself in that situation.

But a lot of times people don't see themselves and putting themselves in that situation because they're not willing to absorb and accept accountability. See, the beauty of being involved with athletics is that you're surrounded by people who make you accountable for yourself. You, it's like a human mirror.

You know when you didn't work hard. Right. You know when you didn't put in the work. You know when you didn't listen to the coach. You know when you're not. you didn't do all of these things. So that transitions to other forms. It could be the classroom. It could be anything else. I remember even before I got to college,

seventh grade, it's in my book, Straight Shooter. My seventh grade teacher, Mr. Caravan, looked my mother dead in the face and she said, your son is not a dummy. She said, he doesn't listen with things he's not interested in. He drifts. Right. So what happens is, you think he doesn't know and he didn't understand. He never heard him. He will literally drives.

and he doesn't hear anybody anywhere. He said, but when you find out what he's passionate about, you'll have a star in your hands. And that's what you said. And that came in handy because years later when I was a beat writer, especially when I was covering the 76 and stuff like that, I have this uncanny ability. I'm not saying it's a gift, but I have this uncanny ability.

I have been in an arena with 20,000 people, and I didn't hear a word. I didn't hear anything. Like I'm on deadline. I got an article to write. I got 20 minutes to do. to write 800 words and I literally have the ability

to block out all the noise and it reminded me of what Professor Caravan said to my mother about drifting I drifted to a different place except this time I saw the positive in it because a lot of times if you hearing that noise you can't focus you can't concentrate you can't get

the job done right I could because I could lock in and I could tune out the noise you sound like an athlete if you heard athletes say it say it's like everything slows down, everything is moving in slow motion. I don't hear not one of those 85,000 or those 30,000 fans are screaming. I hear nothing. Everything is just hushed.

And I can actually hear my heartbeat. That's how quiet it is, even though I'm in the stadium with 80,000. And those are the great ones. As an athlete, those are the great ones. Because the ones who hear all the noise are the ones who succumb to it and they panic. They sweating a little bit extra. palms sweaty, back sides tight, they can't really handle the pressure. They fold under the pressure.

But when you can be composed and poised under pressure, particularly on the field of athleticism, whether it's a quarter play, the field of play, or whatever the case may be, you've got to start your hands. That wasn't me. That was me when it came to my job. I could tune out all of that noise. What people have is pressure.

It's like we do television every day. I'm in front of the camera, bro. I worry about nothing. I'm not phased. I don't care who's in front of me. I don't care what noise people are saying on the outside. I don't care about the camera folks. I don't care about the producers in the control room.

I don't care about the bosses upstairs, whatever. When the camera is in front of me, I believe I own it. Right. And I'm not phased by anything. It just doesn't phase me. But I've seen people who have been reporters, for example, and you put them in front of the camera, brother, they're sweating bullets. They're nervous as hell.

They're stuttering. They don't know what to say. They're trying to gather their thoughts. They're trying to be ultra careful. They don't know what to think, what to say. or whatever the case. And I'm like this, they have no chance. Yeah.

They have no chance. But people think it's easy. Everybody can't talk on camera. Right. Everybody can't speak in front of us, in front of an audience. Right. We've seen some of the greatest players. Yeah.

Not be able to do what you and I do on the regular. And people just like, well, how do you do it? Right. You just do it. I don't, I don't see you. Right. I don't hear, all I hear is my own voice. Right.

Right. You. I'm a little different than that. I think that you and I would be a little bit different than that because that's your gift and that's cool. Me, as anybody producer, anybody would tell you, when I'm on the air, that's why they named me the executive producer first. I ain't asked for the job. I didn't need another job. The last thing I needed another job, bro. It ain't like they throwing extra money my way for this.

You know what I'm saying? It ain't happening. But they came to me and I'm like this. They were like, why? They say, you're producing the damn show anyway. On the set, you're looking at the camera. I know this camera is on. I know this camera is off.

I'm imagining what the audience is doing because I have a connection with the audience. This is what they want to hear. This is what they don't want to hear. This is who they want to hear from at this particular moment of time. This is who they want to hear what in this particular moment of time. All right, Steve, it's time to jump in. All right, Steve, it's time to lay back.

Because the objective is the show. It's not me. It's not you. It's the show. And the objective is to make sure that the people on camera are maximizing their potential in terms of their presentation to the audience

to grab a man. and the reel them in. Right. That's how I'm thinking. Right. And now, it didn't, it wasn't at the beginning. At the beginning, I was a lot like that. But as time went on, you're just seeing it, you're saying, well, wait a minute. Why did this person?

I've always, that's what I've been. See, for me, I'm, I got, look, I know what everybody's supposed to do. But I focus on it on my job. Now, if I need to tell somebody they're out or they need to, hey, this blitz, you're hot, or you got a block. Well, you showed the world that. What you posted on Twitter? You're saying, who laid it up for you?

Who laid it up for you? Who laid it? you already do. And then you're like, yeah. That's what you're supposed to do. That to me is my job. Let me ask you a question. Like, when you say, like, these viral and people ask, like, when do you know

what you're going to say? A lot of times when stuff goes viral, I had no idea because I don't know what he's going to say. Right. You don't know what everybody's going to say, but sometimes it just happens. A moment happens. How much it is just reactionary? Because, like

I said, you have a lot of different, you have mad you have Ryan Clark, you have D-O, you have Swagoo, you have so many different people, so it's hard to get a beat or rhythm to what they're going to say. If you don't know them, and if you don't know the audience. And so what

happens is, I know what the audience wants from Ryan Clark. I know what it wants from Swagoo. I know what it wants from Molly. I know what it wants from Mad Dog. I know what it was from Oloski. I know what it wants from Shannon Sharp. For the purposes of that show.

And so I'm looking at Shannon Sharp And I'm like And three times a bow champion That's one of the greatest titans in NFL history That's a Hall of Famer And damn it he laughed And he's boisterous He's gonna come right at you

And all of this other stuff Okay This is what they want And this is what they're going to get Now you don't want to give it to them too much All in one bowl Right You want to spread it out

You want to spring it out You want a little bit here A little bit there little bit A little, all right, it's 10, 10, 5, 10 o'clock. Boom, 10, 15, here we come. The momentum is swelling. All of a sudden, there might be a little bit too much. You might want to dial it back a little bit, because we're coming at 11.

Right. Anybody come to 1115? Hell, but we come at 11.30. See, that's how I'm thinking. Okay. So it's like, okay, yeah, I want you to shine, and I want you to be you, because I'm going to be me. Right.

And so here we come. And the audience is watching. How do you know that? Because you paid attention to the audience. Right. You're not sitting up there manipulating them. You're not disrespecting them. you're showing them you appreciate them because you're paying attention to what they're telling you and showing you they want.

A lot of times you have talent. And it's like, listen, this is my lane. And there's something to be said about that when you know who you are and you know what you bring. That's not to be disrespectful. That's to be appreciated. Okay, here's his strength. Well, if I have a different strength, how do I get to compliment that? So he can shine while we shine.

That is the objective when you're trying to win. It's applicable on the football field, on the quarter plate, or on the television set. But how many people are thinking like that? I'll tell you who. The winners think like that. The losers don't. It's very simple. You know what?

I want to address some comments that you said because you said condolences in advance. He's the modern day black hope. He's not used to getting beat down. Welcome to the beat down. Well, let me tell you, let me elaborate. First of all, obviously, I wasn't talking about physically. I got no shot. I got no shot.

I mean, let's get that out of the way right now. Let's get that out of the way right now. You know what I'm saying? Let's get that out the way right now. I would not talk about Mississippi. I got no shot whatsoever. But, you know, I've seen you debate quite all. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I've seen you. I'm good at the thing. I'm listening to. You can do your thing, but, you know, you ain't never been up against me. You're serious. It's a little different going up against me. You see, what happens is you got people that are trying to win the debate to be right. Yeah.

False. It's about your perspective up against mine. and who can convince the audience their perspective is better than the next that's what it's about you see a lot of times somebody like somebody that it's a mistake to argue with Shannon Sharp

about the facts of football you don't do that not if you didn't play oh no no no no no no oh please you got no no shot but you can go like this you know something I is really nice I heard what you said but you see you said this two weeks ago that's not consistent with what I just

I mean, you saw this game right there. Now, I'm not you, but damn it, I got two eyes. Right. I saw that. Are you telling me what I saw was a lot? Really? You're sure about that? Well, didn't you say this a year ago?

You see, these are the kind of things. Like, you know, you obviously, you know, you love yourself some LeBron James. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, that's going to happen. He'd a go. He'd go. He's not. Say it with me. He's not.

He's not. I just got to perform with MJ last night. That's okay. Just to remind him. You should have hung up on him. He's hung up on that. Yeah. Say the goat.

The blast for me coming out of your mouth right now. It's okay. You can believe that. You can believe that. You can believe that. You may still go on 20. But we'll do. I'm sure.

You know what? Right. The first LeBron topic, don't need to be nobody. Here's what the deal. Don't need to be nobody there. Here's what's going to hurt you. Here's what's going to hurt you.

Because you see, when you're talking like that, people are like, but shit, but shit, that. No. I'm going to sit back and let you talk. Mm-hmm. And then I'm going to say, you finish?

Are you sure? No. And you're going to be like, no. And I'm going to say, you got to wait now because I waited. Here I come. And you have to deal with the tsunami that I'm going to bring, I'm going to rain down upon you when it comes, especially to that subject.

Especially to that subject. And that's what you're going to hear. Listen, LeBron, listen, I got this man. The game was started in 1947. I got LeBron James, the thousands of players. have played in the NBA. I got him number two all time.

Yeah, yeah. You got people walking around like that's disrespect. It is. I got him. See, see, that's emotion. That's emotion right there. That's emotion right there.

Listen, let me tell you that right now. I personally believe a legitimate argument could be made that I'm sitting in front of the greatest tight end in the history of football. Some people bring in Grunk, Tony Gonzalez, Travis Kel, of course.

But you're in the conversation, you know, and you know, because your brethren, I mean, they give you that love and respect, right? I can say that. But my point to you is that if somebody said you weren't number one, you don't feel insulted.

No. So why you got to be insulted about the problem? Because. That's emotion. No, that's my point. That's emotion. But the goal. Huh?

See, you told me the storm was coming. See, your storm happened for nine years, then took two years off. And it happened for three years and took another three years off. And then it kind of just was like drizzling. My thought storm being gone for 21 years raining. You could say that, that my retort to that would be six NBA finals losses.

So they'll... Hold on. There's six final losses. Six final losses. Let me ask you a question. Six. I just want you to tell me one thing. We're going to debate this.

Sure. Tell me the team that he faced that was the 2017 or the 2018 gold of state warriors. What do you mean? I don't understand your question. Michael Jordan. Tell me the team. You talk about Michael Jordan? I want you to tell me the team that Michael Jordan faced.

that was the equivalent of the 17 and 18. No one. Can I respond to that? Sure. Can I tell you why? No one. Do you know why? Because none of them had Jordan.

No. That's exactly why. Okay, let me explain. See, see, see, that's the ultimate equalizer or usurper. Pick whichever one you want to pick. Do you understand that Jordan is 6 and 0 in NBA finals? Yes. Do you understand that Jordan was MVP all 6 NBA finals?

Yes. Do you understand that Jordan never even allowed a final series to go seven games? You understand it? It never wins seven games. I also, I also know. I also know he just started going to finals because I had bird back with us. Excuse me.

10 time NBA scoring champion, nine time all defensive player, all defensive first team. You do know that, right? Yeah. So in other words, it was LeBron on both sides of the ball? Was he that dominant?

Oh, he was the matter, but you know he should have won it. You know he should have won it. Are you kidding me? Stephen 8. Are you kidding me? Stephen 8. Give me this.

Okay. You know good well, LeBron James should have one defensive player in the year. How does, how does Mark Gassau, who the second team all defensive, Be defensive player to be defensive player the year. I agree with that. I agree with that.

But the flip side to it is that as we watched LeBron James, even with his greatness at one point in time as a defensive player, we never looked at him and said, oh my God, that's that dude defensively. Yeah. You had, you had, no, LeBron is universally respected and revered. MJ was feared. You know the difference.

You know the difference. Because there are people who have feared you. You know the difference better than me. You know the difference between reverence and fear. Look, look. You know this? You like John Witt. I like James Bond.

Can I have James Bond? Can I have James Bond? You can be John Wick. I prefer James Bond. John Witt shot him the whole place, kill everybody. Okay. James Bond killed a few people and got the ladies. They do the same thing.

That's right. Remember when Hallie Berry was walking out. When he was walking out the ocean and he said, Magnificent View. Remember that? Remember that? It's small. And that was where, you know, that's, that's,

stuff is stuff like Pierce Brosnan but you know Daniel Craig of course Sean Connery the man okay I mean I'm trying to say the versatility of James Bond is where the versatility of Go James and it's and you could say that but at the end of the guy guard one through five you'll see him do it I'm not denying that shut down Tony Park on one end in the last five minutes say I got tim and I also saw him get checked when Jason Terry was guarding him in the post and his finals against Dallas you go ahead and deny that no Okay, then. Let me ask you a question.

Has there ever been a time when Michael Jordan showed up in an NBA finals? And you literally looked at him and said, yo, he didn't show up. He didn't play nobody. Come on. Let me ask you a question. I'm going to do you like this here. Sure. Tell me the guy that he faced up with the award, the equivalent of Kevin Durant in an NBA final.

Michael Jordan. Or Steph Curry. I wouldn't say the equivalent of Kevin DeRam, but let's go down the list. He beat Magic for his first title. Magic was 73. Okay. I find you. I'm going down the list. Okay.

I didn't hear you say that when Magic was here, but we're talking about the other. No, but you know Magic. You didn't say that when Magic was here. You didn't tell him that. The man that's going to nine final in 10 years. I feel you on that. And by the way, he took Vladay Divock in those guys. Wasn't Kareem and worthy of them.

But you saw what he did in the first game, right? Allow me. Put a triple double on him ahead and put Scottie Pippin on it. That's cool. Okay, I'm going to say he backed him. He made it look like Kareem and Talwell Jones. Okay, go ahead. That's fair.

Michael Joe. I'm sorry, Magic, Johnson in the first title, Clyde Drexler and the crew the second title, Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, don't ignore that,

Dan Marley and them the third title. Good thing. Okay, okay. Payton, the glove, with Sean Camp before he became Sean Club. That's one Hall of Fame. And then also you've got

Carl Malone, John Stockton, and you have an NBA game that was considerably tougher at that particular moment in time than today's NBA game is in terms of physicality and what's allowed. Yes. So you can appreciate this whole.

You can appreciate that where you can put When you can put your forearm on people, when you can hand check them, when you can do a lot of things you can't do now. Right now you get caught for passing gas. True, you will. It's a different game now. But here's the thing, Stephen. Okay.

What you and the old school guard have equated physicality with talent and skill. The guys in the day game are more skilled. I totally agree with that. I totally agree with that. But you would know this better than me because you were an all-world player. Even though the game of the NFL has evolved. significantly, you know good and damn well that if you were playing in this time, you would have adapted.

Yes. You played in that time. You adapted. The game in the 60s and 70s, you would have adapted to those times. So what I'm trying to say to you is this. Michael Jordan was what he needed to be. If he was playing today, he would be what he needed to be in order to be successful today. That's all I'm trying to say.

When you see greatness on that level, you have to concede that that's the case. But see, all that asked Michael do was the cook. LeBron had the cook. He had the clean. He had the wait tables. He had to take orders. Well, you could say that. But what I'm saying is...

If the brother's doing it on both sides of the floor, then obviously he's doing more than one thing. He's doing that too. Why is he doing more than one thing? How many guys you know that are top five scored and top five or six? How about this? How about one Shaquille O'Neill with Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, 3D, Dennis Scott and those boys were on Orlando, right?

Yeah. How about the fact that they couldn't even... even get the ball pass half court because Scotty Pippen and Michael Jordan had him on locking. Yeah, with Ron Harper. Full court press. We ain't never see LeBron do that. We never see LeBron do that.

You know, stop it. He never did it. You remember with D.A.? He never did it. You remember with D. Rose with the MVP? Y'all voted D. Rose's MVP. What he did the playoffs in the playoffs? Excuse me.

D. Rose, what kind of team did he have? You couldn't tell me, Yo Kim, knowing those boys was a support guy. There was a number. They did enough to get the number one scene, and you didn't say nothing. So what? You voted a MVP.

That's why I call him, Brian and told him. I voted him MVP and still picked Miami to win that series. I knew they won't go beat Miami in the best of seven. Players are different. All right? But that don't mean LeBron deserve the MVP. And oh, by the way, I don't even knock LeBron James for not getting the MVP because when you're that great, you're not going to put all your efforts in over 82 games.

You're playing for April, May and June. So this is entirely plausible. I'm very fair to LeBron James. Sometimes. Most times. Most times. Actually, I'd say all. It's just that I call it like I see it.

I'm not emotional like you. No, I mean, you're a bit. You are emotional about it. I've been doing homework on you. Yeah, you know what? I got a call today for one Maca Jordan. He rolled up on me in a black SUV and rolled a winter down. That's true.

That's true. Yeah. That was scary. I thought he was going to shoot. I thought it was a drive-by. It was a damn drive-by. I thought it was a damn drive-by. It scared to live a hell out of me.

You understand what I mean? That's an absolutely true story. But at the end of the day, all I'm trying to say is that LeBron is phenomenal. He's great. We should throw no shade on him. One of the greatest ever, top three. The top three. I don't see you saying one of it's the T.H.

He will never be greater than Jordan to me, but more importantly, let's go to Corrine, 19-time All-Star, six-time league MVP, champion on a high school level of Memorial. Champion in the NBA. Champion in the NBA. Six times. Good Lord of mercy. Six-N-Denny.

All-time leader's score before Lebrons surpassed him. All of that stuff happened. I'm just saying, come on now. The resume is better, but I still don't believe he was the player that LeBron James is. All right. But what I hold, and I'll say this to you, I'll tell you something that I very really said. If you took LeBron James career from 2012 to now, and that was his history from his first title to what he is now, and you wanted to make an argument against Jordan, I'm listening.

The problem is we don't get to ignore those first seven or eight years where there were a couple of occasions where one he was accused of quitting. and I don't believe that by the way. No. They accuse Noah's drunk in this. No, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about this. God's still a game to all. I got you. But I feel you. But it's true, but it's still accused him with drunken. But the point is.

No, no, no, against Boston. I don't believe that. It was a lot of stuff going on with Ron. That's none of our business. That people, they were totally unfair to him, including his damn teammates. But that's a different story for another day. I never held that against them.

Right. But when you got four games against the Dallas Mavericks in which people looked at you and said, choke. If you're saying that, you know what? You cannot get past that. I can't, I can't argue out of that one. I can't argue out of that one.

And that to me, that to me, sealed the deal about the M.J. LeBron comparison. So what if he were to win a title this year? Don't matter. At 39 years of age. So, so that don't erase Jordan. Well, see, there you go. See, that's the argument that people have

when I was talking about Tom Brady not playing well. I'm not trying to take away with Jordan is accomplished. He got those rings. He got six finals MVP. He has six championships. He has five regular season MVP. If LeBron gets another title, Stephen A, I'm not going to erase what Jordan did,

but he already here for me. All he doing is just... But what I'm saying to you is I already talked about the Dallas thing, and I talked about moments, which you can appreciate. What I'm trying to say to you is that when you are that dude, that doesn't happen to you often. That happened to magic when they called them tragic because you get to

turn off of the Johnson, 84 and all of that. We get all of that, you understand what I'm saying. But for the most part, that doesn't happen. And this is the kind of thing that you also have to pay attention to as well. Not only do you not get to say that about Jordan, but when you look at LeBron, think about this. You want me to tell you what I

hold against him just as much as I held against the Dallas performance? What? The following year with the All-Star game. You got the ball in your hands. It's an Exhibition. Oh, he really passed it. It's an exhibition. It doesn't count.

Right. It's all in fun. Kobe clapped his hand, God rest of the soul. And he's like, yo, let's come on with it. You got Deweighed on the court. You got Mello in the corner. And he threw the pass. And all three of them, along with Kobe, descended on LeBron, and said,

yo, what's up? What you're doing? Because they knew he was psyched out. He was messed up. And what I'm saying to you is that Kobe wasn't like that. MJ wasn't like that D. Wade wasn't like that. And his first NBA final's appearance,

they down 0-2 to Dallas. D-Waid goes berserk, averages 37 in the last four games. I'm just saying it's stuff like that. It's not that you look at LeBron and you diminish him. It's just that you can't elevate him above somebody like MJ

when I got that evidence to support my argument. That's all. And that's why I got a number two alter and God strike me down. I mean, my lord, I mean, what an insult. I mean, the number two all time in the history of the game, and it's an insult.

Only you and Rich Paul and people like that feel that way. Most of us sane individuals know better. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conkie, his best friend

and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021. podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let me ask you this. Yeah. You and I have conversation and people like, how close you're Stephen there? I said, I met him in 2014 when I, would I, would I, I came on the show.

I said, we've talked over the year. We exchanged numbers and we've talked over the years. But I said over the last year and a half or so, I was going through some things. And he was the one guy that was in this business that I felt I could talk to. It would stay between us, but he would give me sound advice.

And so now you have your thing with first take. You are the voice. You are the face of First Take. You're the face of ESPN. What made you reach out? Say, bro, I want you. Because I got love for you, bro. And that's just me being a man and speaking as two brothers.

You know, you know our former boss at first take, Jamie Harwitz, who brought you over at Fis 1 and all of that. And he knows my history. He knows what I stand for. I remember when I first, you can ask him, I remember when I first arrived on first take, and I rolled up in there, and I saw a bunch of white folks. And I said, yo, where the brothers and the sisters at?

you don't think I'm going to be sitting here working with a bunch of white folks, do you? I don't mind white folks. I ain't got nothing against y'all. God bless you. You understand what I'm saying? We all brothers and sisters, the eyes of God when all is said and done, but you ain't going to just have me surrounded by a bunch of little white folks. You better sprinkle some... A little pepper in here.

A little pepper up in this mix. You know what I'm saying? And so, you know, he brought one, and then the next thing you know, I picked two or three others and made sure to diversify that staff. And then one of the things that I did, when I came in there, I knew Skip was going to want to debate me or whatever,

but I was talking about subject matters that we needed to broach because it was still his show, but he respected me enough to get my opinion. And I was like, look, we need all of these other people because I want voices. And I'm just, I'm built differently. What I mean by that is there's no shade on you or anybody else. But I don't believe anybody's knocking me off my perch.

I will knock me off my purse. You know, corporate stuff, bureaucratic stuff. That's stuff you can't, you know. But I'm talking about in terms of my on-air performance, my job performance. I don't worry about it. it. You know what I worry about? The day that I want to leave and I haven't done anything to create opportunities for us to continue. And so for me, it's like I look at you, I think

that you're smart, you're obviously incredibly accomplished, you ain't going to never hear me say, no disrespect to anybody not to bring up nothing. You're going to never hear me say three Super Bowl championships and Hall of Fame status don't mean nothing. I don't roll like that. That's not who I am. I'm the kind of person that I argue with you about football, but I want the audience to know, yo, you're the football expert. Right. Not me.

Right. I'm the reporter that walks in and I'm like, this is what I saw. Tell me I'm wrong. This is what I'm seeing. Tell me I'm wrong. This is where I'm covering it.

Just like me and you talk about. I know you, I don't give damn how much basketball you know. You don't know no more basketball than me. I've been covered. I learned from living legends and all this stuff. But I still want to hear what you have to say. If you can listen to me,

talk to football, why the hell can I listen to you talk about basketball? Right. And so all of that. And then your heart, being conscious, a conscientious brother, caring about the issues

that you caring about, speaking about the issues that you speak about. Nah, brother, iron sharpens iron. And yeah, I got Mad Dog Russo, that's white. I got Dan Olavski. That's a white dude. You see what I'm saying?

You know, Jeff Saturday at one time, he was on the show. That's a white man. But the bottom line is, I want it all. I want to make sure there's brothers, their sisters, black and white,

ethnic, you know, Hispanics, Asian, I don't give them who it is. I want to make sure we're representing. America and we make sure that everybody that looks at our show says I can identify with what they're saying. But in the end, when it comes to me personally, you know, whether it's Ryan Clark, it's Marcus Spears, all right, it's Damien Woody, it's Lewis Riddick, the list goes on and on.

My brother Michael Irvin that's now over at S.S.1, Kishan Johnson, he's are my boys. I go back decades with these. These are my brothers. Right. You see what I'm saying? They will tell you, you ask anybody that knows me. I'm about getting you paid I'm about helping you become successful

I'm about letting you shine I'm not threatened by anybody's appearance it's my obligation but you've heard it you've heard the comments yes man Stephen A man he's strong will he bragged blah blah blah right Shannon strong will

I'm blah blah blah blah how is that going to work they don't know you know what I tell people yeah I'm saying two people that's strong will can absolutely get along as long as there's respect. Absolutely. The moment one disrespects the other, the other loses respect for the one that

disrespected him. Right. So now it's just a matter of time. Exactly. And that's not going to happen. No. Because I don't roll like that. I don't roll like that.

It's like, yo, I'm going to argue with you about your points. But you know what? We're going to agree. We're going to disagree. But at the end of the day, we're brothers and we're going to sit up there and try to do what we can to make our product shine. Right. That's our responsibility because if we do otherwise, all we're doing is inhibiting the other success.

We're getting in the way of what we're trying to do. That makes no sense whatsoever. And not only that, it's setting a bad example for our community. Right. I really need to get deeper about it. Because what happens is that, oh, so they can't chill. They can't sit up there and do a show together. They can't get along.

You see that crabs in the barrel mentality, blah, blah, blah. Nah, man, we're showing something different. You know, first take, I've been blessed and fortunate enough throwing shade on nobody. we've been number one for 12 years we're gonna be number one for 13 it's just that simple and 14 and damn it if I do it for 15 it's gonna be 15 that's the way

that's gonna be that's how my mentality is and I don't root for anybody to fail I just root to be the best and there's a difference and as far as I'm concerned anybody that's with me we the best is what we're gonna do so now it's we it ain't Stephen it's we and when you come

to first take because you ain't start yet you're gonna see it's a thing You're going to see we get along. It ain't fake. We roll with one another. We vibe with one another. We watch one another's back. It has always been that way under my stewardship of the show.

And I can say my stewardship of the show because the show was handed to me. They ain't come to me and I just took the title and all. No. They came to me and said, it's yours. You're responsible for it. If I didn't want Shannon Sharp at first day, Shannon Sharp wouldn't be at first day. That's just how I rolled. No question.

But I had to come out that day because. because we're all that you were going for. Bro, when you're telling me this behind, see, what you're saying now is that you told me months in advance because you were telling me things that were going on that far. Hell, I didn't know. And I'm like, hold on. I got out of this building every day. How the hell you know what I don't know? And you're telling me, bro, it's going down like this.

It's happening like this. And I'm just scratching my head. I'm like, I'm at this building every day. And everybody chees and pleasing in my mother. Was I right? You was absolutely spot on. and say I was right and by the way

it wasn't because of Fox it's because I know the business I've been there for 30 years I can see it a mile away you know I can see the hand writing on the wall I knew when it was over for you bro

I'm gonna be real with you I knew when it was over and I was like I'm here you see what I'm saying because I knew what was going to happen what happens is when you got noise and we're gonna call it like

I'm gonna call it like I see it You don't want to do this. Let me do it. All right, because I've been in the business long enough. When you're black and you have the kind of evident, apparent, meaning public, situations like that, we don't win. Everybody's circling. The sharks are circling now. It's not one person.

And it's not, you know, collusion going on. instinctually people tend to believe this, believe, this, believe that, and the sharks are circling. And that's why I came out. You know the number one reason I came out, even before first take was even on my mind. No, the number one reason I came out, Shannon Sharp, and I said, I want Shannon Sharp on first take. Because I wanted the world to know that you were wanted. That was the most important thing to me. I wanted the world.

I didn't want you to be in a situation where the sports world looked at you and said, What do you do? He must have done something. Prostana Nogra. Blah, blah, blah, blah. So I said, I said if he ends up here, the honchos know I want him. But more importantly than that, this is a brother that I think has done a lot of good work on television that has helped our community.

And as a result, it's incumbent upon me because of the perch that I sit on to let them know he's wanted. Don't cut him off because that's what they did to me in 2009. They cut me off and left me for dead, bro. and I'm not talking about ESPN I'm talking about the industry. They cut me off and left me for dead. They thought I was done. They were right in my epitaph

and I knew it and I said I was blessed and fortunate enough to have enough connections and to do what I do to overcome it. I don't know if this brother does. So let me let the world know he has me and we'll go from there. That happened.

That absolutely happened like that because you and I was talking and you're like, bro, I got this, but soon as I get out of this meeting, I'll hit you back. And we were talking 20 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, and you took every last one of my calls. And I'm thinking to myself, and I remember getting on the phone calling my sister, and I said, like, maybe it's probably going to happen. I say because it's not coming from inside. It's coming from somebody that I know knows the business, and he wouldn't bull-jad me.

But he told me that it's a 95% chance that it's going to happen, and he wants me on his show. and I'm like, oh, I think I'm good at what I do. And for him, it did my heart good. Because I know what you represented in this industry to say, I want him on my show. Whatever these, I don't believe nothing. Look, you go back from when I was with the Broncos for 10 years, went to Baltimore for two, back to the Broncos for two. CBS for a decade, I was five for six years. Now one person never said anything bad about Sheldon.

He's difficult to work with. He did this, that. My greatest compliment from players is guys that were on my team, say, Shana Sharp is the greatest team I ever had. He's my favorite teammate, the way he approached it, the way he was. And so for you to come to me and to say what you said when you didn't have to do any of it. And nobody would have held that against you. Because like you said, that's what would have happened.

And I heard it. Man, he must have did something. No. Showed up every day on time. time and did a hell of a job. I remember when Jamie Horowitz, who we're talking about, came to recruit me in 2016 in April at the W Hotel.

He said, you're going to be a star. Yeah. I said, Jamie, I know what I said, trust me. He says, I have no talent. It goes deeper than that. Because you see, Jamie, whether he wants to tell you this or not, I knew back then Skip was auditioning you. Because whenever I took off, you would be there.

Yes. And what Jamie wouldn't tell anybody is that there were extra days that I would take off, just so Skip could bring you on. Because, again, if you're not creating opportunities for other people, what good are you? Right. My pastor says, and I'm not the most religious person in the world. I mean, as promiscuous as I've been in my lifetime, at least for the first. I mean, I am in no position. I'm a lot better now over the last decade.

But, Lord, I have my issues. No question about it. And, you know, my past would say all the time, there's no success without a successor. And so when I look at, you know, for me, all the brothers that are on the show, one of my proudest moments was when Michael Irving came last year. And the reason why it was proud,

because I loved the playmaker, he and I are very, very tight with brothers. And I know what his name brings and the stature that it holds. And so you're thinking, that he comes and others are going to feel alienated. But if you watched him

when he was on the show with us, it was a brotherhood. You see what I'm saying? He's a great man. It was a brotherhood. So you know him because you know how great he is. Exactly. He loved everybody. But it's like all of these, I mean, Olavski and RC and everybody, they wanted to be on the air with him.

And so my point is that that's how it's supposed to be. It's like, wait a minute, the NFL constantly talks about what a Brotherhood exists. Yeah. Well, guess what? First take is a platform for a brotherhood.

Right. So when Shannon... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle grace. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, CliverTaylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand-new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw. unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose,

and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast.

I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It comes on, yeah, you're going to be on the air with me.

But guess what? Them brothers are going to slide up in there. Yes. Y'all need to be with each other. You need to be next to each other. You need to be, you know, verbally knocking somebody like me upside the head. What I'm coming at y'all, like, yeah, I'm not. I'm not the little journalist.

I saw this. You know, you know, and you're like, look at this guy right here. You know what I'm saying? I mean, and we're laughing and having a blast. It's entertainment, bro, but it's information. Right. Okay, it's perspective. Yes.

It's serious stuff that needs to be addressed. It's the whole gamut. And think about it. We got the national airwaves for the worldwide leader available to us to disseminate and display our message, I believe, our culture, our perspectives, and put them all on display for everybody to see to come back or to embrace.

Right. But the point is, at the end of the day, you ain't going to feel alone. Right. You're going to be there and we're going to be together. Why? Because I'm going to have your back. That's why.

And they're going to have your back. And that's the way it's going to be. You know what people ask me. That's the way it's going to be. What people ask me, Stephen, they're just like, bro, how do you say what you say? Mm-hmm. And then, because, Shannon, you go to the game, you might be bump into some of these guys.

Say, how do you have that situation? I say, if I see them out, I'll know. They acknowledge me. I acknowledge them back. If they don't, I keep it moving. I don't make it personal because I don't know these guys well enough to make it personal. Right. I'm talking about a given situation.

You didn't play good in last night game. That's it. It doesn't diminish anything that you've accomplished before last night. Right. It doesn't diminish anything that you might accomplish moving forward. Right. I'm talking about a specific. of events that happened last night.

How do you handle that, Stephen? Because I know, see, most times they look at me, they do a double take. They're like, nah, I'm going to let that go. That's right. They don't want that smoke. They don't want that. They don't want to approach you for the way.

They're going to let them. I'm just going to pretend like I don't see it. But with you, I'm thinking it like, man, why you say that? Yeah. Well, first of all, I respect any of them who comes up to me man to man and man confronts you.

Yes. Because if you want to have a conversation, here's where I'm big on. If I said something publicly and I'm wrong, I'm going to correct it publicly. Thank you. I'm not going to do something publicly and then apologize privately. Right. Now, if I'm wrong, I'm going to do it publicly.

I'm going to man up because that's the kind of man that I am. That's how my mama raised me to be. The other thing that I'm going to do, but if I'm right, I'm not budging. You ain't going to scare me. You ain't going to intimidate me. You ain't going to faze me. Let's get it on. Like I tell people all the time, figuratively or otherwise, it's not about getting your ass kicked.

It's about what you're willing to take an ass. That's kicking four. You got to be principled. Right. And you got to be somebody that's willing to stand on something. Yes. And I'm the kind of person

that's willing to understand or something. I'm not trying to get personal. I'm talking about your game. Right. You ain't going to. Listen, I've seen players do some stuff behind the scenes.

Man, I'm walking out of a hotel room, whatever. I see whatever. And I'm like this. It ain't illegal, nothing like that. But I'm just going like this. I don't know what you're talking about. That keeps it moving.

Ain't none of my business. Ain't none of my business. You're not in my business. Right. But when you shoot two for 20, Oh, that's my business. When you lose and gay, that's my business. When you're sticking up the joint, that's my business.

When you're not showing up in practice, that's my business. When you sit in there bitching and whining and moaning about your money, but you ain't earning it, that's my business. Because that's your career that you've decided to put on public display. That's the difference. But your personal business, man, I always got you covered on that. As long as you know, don't ask me to assist in breaking any laws or anything like that because I ain't going to jail for your ass.

That ain't going to happen. But outside of that, I mean, it ain't none of my business. I keep it moving. Football. Yeah. You love your team. I'm thinking you like all things New York. Steelers.

You're the Steelers guy. I'm a die-hard Steelers fan because the first game I ever saw was the Immaculate Reception. Wow. When I was six years old, my dad, the Immaculate Reception, Frank O'Harris against the Raiders. And I fell in love with the black and gold ever since. Yeah, I've been a Steve. I still haven't given Neil O'Donnell for that interception. You threw the Larry Brown in Super Bowl.

I still am recovering from now. I still haven't given I've given Ike Taylor to give him a damn touchdown pass to the Marius Thomas that Tebow threw. Don't get me. That probably was the worst moment. That might have been the worst moment of your own air career. That might have been the worst one, Steve. You know, man, listen, man, I had, oh, my, oh, my God.

I was with a girl I was dating at the time. And, you know, her fine self and everything. And I had my mind on other things. Yeah. And Tebow connected that pass. I collapsed face first on her living room rug. and laid there for two hours. Didn't do nothing that night.

Totally ruined my night. Totally ruined the moon. I didn't want anything. I was so damn depressed. Of all people, and I love him deal with, he's my friend. But that non-throwing Tim Tebow

throw an 80-yard touchdown pad. I could not believe to save my life that that happened and I couldn't recover that night, bro. I was depressed. But those two moments are my worst. is the Steelers' fear. So obviously, if you're a Steelers fan,

you have to hate the Cowboys. Because when the 70s, they always met in the Super Bowl. And the Steelers always beat them down. Damn right, damn right. Roger Starbock and Drew, Drew Hill. Tony Dawson. Tony Dorset. Come in.

Steelers took them out. Yes. Brasho, Swan, Starwar, even Franco Harris. I really didn't like that much as a running back. You understand? I like Rocky Blah more than I liked Franco Harris. He was the fullback. But the Steelers,

and the Steel Curtain, Meadjo Green, Elsie Greenwood, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham, Mel Bluntney. I'm like, Lord, this is what it's all about. Yeah, steel curtains. Yes. I couldn't remove for no New York teams. They didn't win any damn thing. They were terrible.

They were terrible. They were terrible. They were terrible. So now, you basketball, that's your thing. What's Stephen A's favorite sport? It's basketball, but I've grown to really, really love football because football has been established as an event. So that's Sundays. You know what I'm saying

When you come to New York One of the time I'm bringing you by the crib I'm bringing you by you show you crib You know what I got I got the man cave It's set up Okay

It's set up now You know so we're going to watch the game together Then right They can do that We can do that Ryan Clark Markers Spitz all that They talk about

One time I was just Invite you all over I'm making sure I got some cated food Yeah yeah okay I know you can't cook Hell no Hell no I cook some lasagna

Cuc some steak Man I don't anybody eat those Yeah Hell yes we do Who they think I am Garfield You might not eat the lasagna. You know what I'm saying? Knowing you,

you're watching your carbs and stuff like that. But some of us going to eat it. But I will tell you this, I ain't cooking for a bunch of men. They ain't happening. But I'll tell you this, right here. I tell you this right here right now. You know, you're going to go. Football has established itself as an event. Yeah. But really,

the two things I love most is basketball and nothing beats a big time boxing event. Oh, yeah. Like when I was at Errol Spent. I was out. I was out of it. You know you.

Right. It broke my, I picked Corford to win. I ain't know he won like that. Yeah. It broke my heart to see Errol Spence get whipped like that. Yeah, he really, really did. I didn't see that coming. I might be at Canelo versus Charlo.

Chalo. But see, my problem is that Chalo's moving up to weight classes. I'm scared for him. Now, he got mad skills and he got hard, and he walks around looking like the bigger guy. But he ain't been in the ring with somebody. that's punching him from 168 pounds. Right. In a real fight.

Right. And so that's my concern. His brother got some issues that he got to resolve. That's what they say. But he's the natural super middleweight. Right. So he was the one who, in my opinion, should have been fighting. Right.

Charlo, I'm sorry, Canello, rather than this guy. But those big time boxing events in Vegas, I mean, nothing beats it. I mean, the suspense fight was really big, but it's been a while since you had those. I remember going to Mike Tyson and the Mayweather Where it was an event Mayweather Packia Mayweather Canelo Mayweather Daylor

Yes that was a big event too But I will tell you Nothing was really bigger than Mayweather Packia We had waited so long Yeah And probably even more it was five years too late But we didn't know until after the fight That it was five years too late

You know what I'm saying So leading up to the event Oh my God It didn't get any bigger than that But you know the thing is Everybody that Mayweather fall he made him look like it was five years too late. Right.

And that's how the great, that's the greatness of him. Yes. Everybody that he fought, they're like, what? He beat sugar, he beat sugar, or sugar, or sugar, Shane Mosley. He'd beat Sugar Shane Mosley. Shane caught him. Yeah.

Almost heard him. Almost dropped him. But you look at, you look at the champions that this man beat. Yep. And made them look mundane and beating them. Right. You're talking about Mayweather, right? Mayweather.

I would say the same about Jordan, but that's a different time. Oh, there you go. No, no, no. I'm glad that you heard that. No, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm saying, you know, because Jordan will make you look like you're less than what you are. Like, before Scottie?

LeBron would beat you. I know he ain't. But MJ would make you look like less than what you are. I know Scott is. You see his difference? Scottie is on this. Don't call this and don't invite because what's transpired and everything, you know. But that isn't Scottie's fault.

Scottie was wrong. Scottie was wrong. Oh, yeah, Scott, Scott. But no, no, no, no, no, let me tell you. Let me tell you how it started. Okay. You know it started in the last dance. Okay.

Because the last dance was supposed to be about Jordan's last dance. Why are you putting Scotty Pippen in there for an event that you weren't even on the team on? Let the journalist and me correct you. Go ahead. The last dance was about the last season for the Chicago Bulls. Okay. The last season. Yes.

So what happened is, is that they all on their way out. So you're telling different stories about them and their careers with the Bulls, while they're fading into the twilight. Yeah. So that kind of stuff does make it relevant. But you know you're going to make Scottie look bad. Well, Scotty deserved to look bad.

But you don't have to tell it. There are a lot of times, Stephen 8. Well, wait a minute now. It ain't like he said, yo, man, this is the woman he was messing with or something. No. He said, yo, you passed up this contract. You wanted more money.

I mean, damn, there's public information. Ryan Storpe, don't sign this deal. Because if you sign this deal, you can't come back to me because I'm not going to renegotiate your deal. I mean, damn. Michael Jordan's gone. You want to be that dude

and then you're going to sit up there and refuse to enter the game because of Tony Kookech. I mean, that happened in front of millions of people watching. It did. You don't got to tell the story, though. Why not?

It's a part of the story. But Jordan wasn't there. Let me ask you question. You tell the information that we wasn't around. Excuse me, excuse me. Jordan was still around. He was coming to visit the team. Scotty Pippen wearing the sneak

kicking his feet up. Look at the bottom of the soles of the shoes. Jordan, come on back, come on back, all that other stuff. Hell, your Jordan wasn't dead end. You didn't say nothing about that. By the way, where did you play? Did you play in Denver? Yes.

Did you play in Baltimore? Yes. So we shouldn't talk about that. Yeah. We should talk about it. So whatever happened in Baltimore, we need to be, we need to keep that quiet. No. Whatever happened in Denver, we need to keep that quiet.

But here's the thing. It's a part of your story. But here's the thing. The way I look at it, I'm not going to tell an event that I wasn't a part of. So anything that happened in Baltimore from, 2000 and 2001. If I tell it in my story, I can tell it to my story.

Because I was there when Ray went through what he went through in Atlanta. I was there. I was picking him up from the courthouse. He was living with me in my basement. So if I want to tell my story, I should be able to include that. But that's a far, that's a far different angle.

The man was accused of a crime. It was off the field. Yes. It was very personal. And even though you were involved, that's his personal business. There's nothing about Scottie Pippen turning down a contract or Scottie Pippen refusing to enter

a playoff game that's personal. No, but he's saying... That's life! But he said when Scottie was talking about having the back surgery and he wanted a contract and Jordan said he's being selfish, even though I might agree, I ain't saying nobody's going to be selfish because I want everybody to get as much money as they can't.

So I'm not going to say that, but I'm just saying I'm not saying George, I just think that Scottie was surprised that Jordan took the stance that he took and said what he said. That's fair, but I would tell you this, Jordan wasn't only the star to show he was also an executive. Yeah, he had a final say. So we all know that. That's number one. Yeah, you know, here.

There's an important component to bring up. Number two and more importantly, you got to remember that was in the aftermath of him turning down the contract and then being bitter about it. You're right. I'm sorry, taking the money rather. Retail money. bit about it, right? And so you took the money that Jordan and Rinesdorf essentially advised you not to take. Right.

You ended up being bitter about it and then was willing to let the team suffer because you got to remember where it's personal with Jordan. If you're a tight end, which you are, and your quarterback, you say, yo bro, don't take this money because you don't be bitter about the contract. He doesn't listen to you.

He takes the money anyway. Then he's bitter about it later on and refuse to step on the field. with you, leaves you out there hanging by yourself, you're gonna have something to say. Whoa, you mean to tell me, joining with all them championships by himself? No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm talking about this

at the time he complained. Oh, I know, yeah. You know what I'm saying? At the time he complained, yes. At the time he was complaining about Scotty being selfish, he was on the court without him. But that's what, but he was like, come on, you're leaving me out here because of the decision,

I told you not to make, but you didn't listen to you made it anyway. But I think you will agree. That hurt Scotty more than anything. to hear Jordan say that. Okay. Fair enough. Are we sure that that's all this hurting, Scott? No, there's some other thing that's going on behind this.

There you go back. I just. You and you're saying what? There's never just. There's always a reason. I didn't say what, and I ain't going to say what. I just asked you a relatively rhetorical question that I know you know the answer to.

I think it's safe to say that we all know. Yes. There's other things Scottie's a little upset about. Yes. Okay. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

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A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you'll say. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. What is it with you? Like every time you say something, you say my sources say this. Right. And it seems like players go out of their way to try to refute what you said on there.

Well, first of all, when your voice is potent and it's going to go viral and it's going to resonate and they think it's going to compromise their brand, that's what they're going to do. I understand that. I remember, I tell you a story one time. I had a coach.

Go up in front of reporters. Stephen A's wrong. He'll know what the hell he's talking about. I can't believe they even let him report on the team. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then walked by me and winked. Because he did it because he didn't want people to know he was the one who gave me the story. I've been a journalist for 30 years.

I got sources all over the story. sports world. Right. Every single segment of every single show, I get text messages. It's a player, it's a coach, it's an executive, it's a player personnel director. In my case, sometimes it's owners, because I know quite a few. Right. Okay. And so I have sources all over the place. Does that mean I'm always right? Absolutely not. What happens, though, is I never said I was. I said, this is what I was told. And when you make that judgment call, what are you making the judgment call about?

I ain't making a call about your personal life. I ain't making a call about something ultra-invasive or whatever. You know, the other day when I made the news about Lonzo, I'm like this. They say, yo, Stephen A. They said, sometimes it's like it's hard for him to stand up from a sit position in the chair. All right?

I'd heard the same thing on several occasions. Well, two years ago, you missed 42 games due to the injury. The next season, you didn't miss the entire season. This season's coming up. The team announced, think about this. The team announced in June that he would be available before the new year. Think about that. Right.

So I'm going like this. You're going to literally sit poolside and hop up and down on the chair from a seating position when you don't missed 48% of your games in just your fourth or fifth year in your career. brother, you clearly are not healthy. Okay, you want to get literal with it. Right. Maybe I shouldn't have said or whatever. That's what they said.

But that ain't playing basketball. But you ain't, exactly. So I'm like, really, that's what you want to refute? And I like Lonzo. Not nothing against them. I have nothing against his daddy, whatever the case may be. But I would say to you,

go back to the days when I've covered, I was a beat writer for the Philadelphia 76ers, and I'm covering Alan Iverson and beyond. I've been a journalist for 30 years. I was a beat writer for 10. I was a general sports columnist for another seven or eight. I've been around.

And so there's been plenty of times when people have refuted what I've said and then years later come to find out I was telling the truth all along. You go ahead and you denied that. I remember one time I had a player. I'm in St. Thomas where my family's from. And if you go to St. Thomas, this is a spot called Red Hook. And Red Hook is where you go and you take the boat from St. Thomas to St. John. It's only a 15-minute boat ride.

And I'm literally docking away from Red Hook going into the ocean. I get a call of one out and they're saying I'm lying. I'm like, what the hell do you care? You already told them you leaving. It's hurting my brain. And you realize how a lot of cats are thinking. They're thinking about their social media following. They're thinking about the connections that they have.

They're thinking about how that's going to be parlayed in the monetary value for themselves down the line and how I could be compromised. And so when you see these denials, let's say, all right, it makes sense. I got it. I leave it alone. But my attitude is I'm not giving you a death sentence and I'm not talking about your personal business

I'm talking about relatively obvious stuff calm the hell down and stop making it bigger than what it is. Right. And you'll be fine. Right. The conversation that I saw, I saw a little bit of it about where Steph Curry, I think on Gil, Gilbert Arena's age of zero's podcast, said he's the greatest point guard. Yeah. You agreed or disagreed? I agreed, but I was mistaken.

And the reason why I say I was mistaken is because what I wanted to elaborate on is when you're talking about a typical quintessential point guard, you're talking about a facilitator. Right. Magic Johnson's greatest ever. Yeah. There's no question. Right. What I was talking about was impact from the position. Right.

And to me, Steph Curry's marksmanship combined with his ability to move without the ball, puts a defense's head on a swivel. And as a result of that, because of the panic. he creates because of his extraordinary marksmanship, you have to pay rapt attention to him. You can't afford to barely pay attention to anybody else. And that to me is a similar impact

to Magic Johnson's ability to get to the basket, throw no look passes, and especially Magic Johnson in the open court on the fast break. But if you put Magic Johnson in the half court setting, he backs you down. Right. He throws the ball of Kareem Abduljabbar. Right. Open court is worthy.

It's Byron Scott. It's Cooper. You know what I'm saying? stuff like that. Pick your poison. I was talking about impact. I wasn't talking about a quintessential facilitator as a point guard. Because Steph Curry is clearly not that.

Because that's what I'm saying. I don't really look at Steph as a two. Right. I understand that. Because all these got new age guys. Fame Lillard, Steph Curry, all these guys are two guards masquerading.

They're not the point guard. I'm looking to point guard like magic. John Stockton, Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson. When I think point guard, that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking. Do we agree? We agree. We agree. I mean, listen, Magic Johnson is so phenomenal and Michael Jordan's been arguing on me about this forever because Magic Johnson is the greatest in his eyes as well. So, you know what I'm saying? It's one of those. And ain't no changing that dude's mind.

And ain't no changing Michael George's mind. You ain't got no snowball chance in hell of pulling that all. But he's right. And Eddie Johnson does NBA radio. He's absolutely right. He was talking about a mad dog Russo in historian. He was talking about he was absolutely right. We know that as a pure past that Magic Johnson is the greatest facilitator the game has ever seen. But I'm saying as an impact, you could talk about Steph Curry being a two guard, but I would tell you he has the ball in the hands enough. The offense runs through him and the impact his marksmanship creates just as much havoc as Magic Johnson created. And that's all I was trying to say, which is why even though if you're talking about a prototypical point guard, you would pick others before him. If you're talking about impact, it's him and Magic Johnson. Yeah. Oh, we're doing no question. It's him and imagine.

There's no denying that. Exactly. When you look at LeBron, let's take LeBron, and you were covering the NBA when LeBron got in. Yep. I said LeBron is overachieved, because no matter what you thought he might be, ain't no way in hell.

You thought he would be this good, Stephen A. No, I didn't. That's why I got him number two all time. LeBron James is one of the greatest ever do it. And listen, we're going to miss him when he's going. I can sit up there and I can have my basketball decisions as Michael Jordan won, him two. But I got to tell you, man, I got so much love and respect for LeBron. And a lot of people, they misconstrue, you know, what I mean by that.

When I say I got love for a brother that I barely know, because it's not like I talk to him every day or whatever, even though we accord you to one another in the whole nine. I'm saying I appreciate who you are and what you've meant. Yes. To our community. to basketball to young men,

particularly young black men everywhere. This dude is phenomenal, man. And to be a guy that was on a cover of Sports Illustrated and the only blemish in his entire career is that I'm taking my talents to South Beach. That is literally the only stain on his career. And he raised money for the boys and glory. I mean, it's ridiculous.

A businessman, extraordinary, actor. He did a great job. I'm joking when I put the ticker of him, great actor, great, because, you know, we're so sensitive about LeBron Jay. Actually, he had a ticket creator for first take. Great actor, great, great, great, great. You had like 17th, thank you.

Oh, it's going to be there for you. It's going to be there when you bring him out. I say, can we get it out the way? Because I want to make sure he knows. I recognize all the greatness about him. Listen, the movie train wreck. Did you see what he did his trade record? He was great.

He was great. He did a great job, you know? When Amy Schum, I believe him, he was fantastic. You know, I got it. But the point is, is that the dude phenomenal on a multitude of levels and what he has done for us as black

people in this nation in terms of his business acumen his commitment to excellence you know this brother takes care of his body he's always in shape I mean I look at he's the reason that I got mad at Anthony Davis last year because I'm looking at

Anthony Davis you know this brother vouch for you right you know this brother he put his name on a line for you right I know you got him the ring in the bubble, but you understand it don't stop there, right? How is he in better shape than you? How is he more focused and dedicated than

you? Could you take your ass over his house and mimic his workout? Use his trainer. Use his nutritionist. Do something. You understand what I'm like, it's like, come on now. Look, man, I'm the star at first day.

You tell you something, Shenzhou. I'm going to do some more push-ups, bro. You know what I'm going to change my diet even more. You know what I'm saying? I ain't going to let you down, bro. You know what I'm not going to be there? I got Shannon and R.C. sitting across from me with him with his fitness facility in Louisiana and all of this other stuff. And I'm going around with a belly and looking all shit.

Oh, no, no, no, it ain't going down like that. It ain't going down like that. I'm going down like that. I'm going to be in shape, bro. I've been getting this shape. I already lost some pounds. I reduced my potty fat in half. I did all that. But what I'm, I'll never be there.

The black hump that you are. I ain't trying to do that. But you ain't going to look at me and go like this. Damn, he need to get in the gym. He ain't in shape. I ain't going to do that. I ain't going to do that. How I'm going to bring that day?

You got Molly sitting in the middle and stuff like that. You sitting across from me. I'm like, and I'm looking shabby? No, it ain't going down like that. And I'm looking at Anthony Davis. Like, ain't there nothing inside of you that said? Yeah. You know, I need to be in shape.

Right. You're going to drop 41 game and 11 in next. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. You know, it's like you're looking at LeBron and I literally, I almost went on the air and was like, you know, LeBron, I'm sorry. I felt that bad for him because I'm like, in his 20th year, in the league, he's in better shape and he's the best player and he actually don't want to be. He actually wishes you were in better shape. He actually wishes you were the better player, which you are when you bring your A game.

But it's sporadic because of a lack of dedication. In my opinion, I don't know that. Right. But I'm like, wouldn't you think that? Yeah. If you, LeBron, you're like, wait a minute. Instead of missing, you ain't doing something right. Bro, I'm almost 10 years more in the league with more wearing terror.

Come on, man. Come on, man. And you're in L.A. And you know this, because you've been out here, you live out here now. L.A. a different flavor. You know, you got to be disciplined to be out here. Yeah. You can't.

you can't easily locate the distract. I mean, they are easy to find. Yeah. There's distractions. Well, that's the thing with discipline. It requires you to do your best when you think no one is watching. There you go.

There you go. You know what I'm saying? Listen, when I'm in L.A., bro, I don't come outside until I finish my workout. Other than first take, I don't come outside until I finish my workout. Because I know once I get outside, there's going to be a while before I get back. You know what I'm just not going to.

Without you here, you're going to be without. There we go, I'm just not going to want, I'm just not, you know what? You know, my girl, my girls with me in a home business. That's right. We're going to be, hey, we're going to be in the gym together. I'm not going to be getting in a gym with you, Shannon. I'm not doing that. I'm not, listen, you want to, you want a meme that people will be laughing at me for the next two decades,

have me in the gym with Shannon Sharp. Come on, man. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know, that's like the rock standing next to Snoop dog. We ain't doing that. We ain't doing that. You know, you know, I love you, baby.

You know, I love you know what I mean, come on now. I ain't doing that. I'm not getting in the gym with you. Just won't work out. Huh? Just won't work out. I'm going to work out every, listen. I work out.

You know what? I might do that. See? I might. I'm going to wait a few months, though. I'm going to wait a few months. I'm not going to do that just yet. Okay.

Dane. Yeah, man. In James Hardin's situation. Yes, sir. Dame is, you know, he, look, he saw James Hardin get fined 100,000 for calling Darry a liar. He's like, I ain't trying to, you know, lose any of my money. So.

what's your take on those situations? Well, when I think about Dane, it's more sensitive for me because Dane could have demanded out on several occasions, and he never did. And it's Portland. It ain't like he didn't demand out of L.A. on my end. Right.

He didn't demand out of Portland. Okay? And he was never going to get anybody to come to Portland. He was never going to get anybody going to come to Portland. So now that he's been there a decade and he's like, it's time. Look out for the brother

Now, now, should he have handled it a tad bit differently In terms of, all right, I shouldn't have said Just Miami try to work behind the scenes to get this done? Get to Miami, right? Maybe. He shouldn't have done that, right? But the bottom line is he's giving Portland everything he's had. Right. And you know you're moving in a different direction. You draft your number of the third overall pick

is your brother's school, school Henderson, play your position. Come on, y'all. Get it done, you know? And so that's how I feel. feel I support Dame on that. James Hart is a different animal. And I like James. But James got to be more accountable. You got everything you want.

They gave you everything but a pacifying a bib in Houston. Whatever you wanted, they gave you. They did. Everything. Money, helicopter rides, massage therapists, masseuse, hang out of the strip club, whenever you want. Did everything. Go to Vegas, whatever you want. I mean, they gave you everything.

And Darryor Mory took care of you. Right. To the point where Mike D'Antoni didn't even show negative plays James Harder when James Harder was in the film room. He showed about everybody else. Wouldn't even show him in the film room. This is me covering the NBA. I'll tell you what I know.

Then you force your way out. You want to go to Philly because you want to go with Darryl Moore. You want to follow him there. But they say no. So you want to go to Brooklyn. They tell you, you know initially you show up to camp out of shape. You make it very, very clear that you ain't trying to do anything because you're trying to get the hell out of town.

So they ultimately trade you to Brooklyn. You get in Brooklyn. You force your way out of there because you want to go with Darry, and Philly, which is where you want to go all along. Now, although we can't absolve Darry, if you lied to the man, you lied to the man. Right. Ain't nobody giving, ain't nobody blaming James Carter for that. No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, seriously, I'm going to get this back. That's right. You know, if you told him that, you owe him that. Correct. Period. But why is anybody going to be sympathetic to James Harden with what James Hardin is done on three separate occasions? Right.

And now you're doing it a fourth. And you got to remember when he was in Houston, I want Dwight Howard I don't want Dwight Howard I want Carmelo Anthony Don't want Camillo Anthony Wanted Russ I want CP3

I don't want CP3 I want Russ I don't want Russ And not one single championship to show for it It ain't like you are champion Making these demands You're getting paid

You're a show stopper We get it But you have no championships to show For any of your efforts At some point in time somebody got to be willing to say to you, yo, can you give me a little bit more?

Oh, by the way, don't get me started with close-out games in the playoffs. We just saw what you did in the game 7, 9 points, 3-4-11 shooting, and a game 7 close-out game against Boston, you had them for game 6, you were up 3-2 on your home turf in Philadelphia, and look what happened. Those are the kind of things that I'm talking about.

And so when something like that happens, man, I can't support that. I can like him and be cool with him, but I can't support those actions. Some of the decisions that he's. Can't do it. What's Katie's legacy going to be? What's Kevin Durant's legacy going to be? I think Stephen A, he was up 3-1 on the Golden State Warriors.

He's up 3-1 on a 73-win team. Lose game 5, lose game 6, lose game 7. And in games 5 and 6, he shot the ball terrible. Yeah, I would tell you this. I think that Kevin Durant is one of the greatest players that I've ever seen. But when I saw how things materialized in Brooklyn, and then he went to Phoenix and got bounced out in the second round in Denver, what I said was, I can't put him above LeBron.

I used to look at him in his offensive arsenal and think that. But what I realize is that I'm not sure. showing enough respect and appreciation to the leadership that LeBron has exerted and exhibited. LeBron has been the face of every franchise he's been on, even though D. Wade was that leader in Miami. And when you look at LeBron, what he had to deal with with Kyrie, you know, what he had to deal with when he arrived in L.A., what he had to deal with all the vitriol aimed in his direction and in Miami and stuff like that. mental toughness, ultimately leadership, accountability. You know, of course, as years in Cleveland, of course,

when you look at all of these things, he showed an ability to deal with things, Kevin Durant did not. Right. Kevin Durant is a phenomenal player, a good brother, really authentic in a lot of ways. I got a lot of love for him. He is a two-time champion, a two-time NBA finals MVP. We can't tell.

I don't care that he's playing with the Golden State Warriors. He averaged 35. He was the MVP. Yes. balled out. You know, he showed his greatness. But the problem that I would tell you that was really put on display in Brooklyn, he needed to be a leader. But he doesn't want that. He's already told you that. And that's the difference. LeBron wants it. LeBron wants to be the leader. Right.

LeBron accepts it. You know, you know, Kyrie is Kyrie. And, you know, I'm not here to, I'm not going to throw no shame. Me and Kyrie have had our issues. That stuff has been resolved. But the point is, is that at the end of the. the day, Kyrie, that is somebody that Kevin Durant, if he were that leader, had to reel in. Right. By simply saying, man, I'll bump all this. We try to win the chip. Right. Kaii doesn't hurt his ankle against Milwaukee in the playoffs. Brooklyn might have won it all. Right.

Because I think they win that series against Milwaukee. I do too. And I think they could have beaten Phoenix. Right. I mean, it's just that simple to me. And so when I'm looking at it from that perspective, I'm just saying to myself, you Kevin Durant, it's about living and let live and I'll do my job

now it's about making sure that the ultimate job is to try to win the chip and letting nothing stand in the way of that if you're on a football field Ray Lewis might have been the leader you ain't going to be quiet

if you see cats blowing your opportunity to win the Super Bowl championship you're going to be like yo and I remember when Isaiah Thomas the great Isaiah Thomas two-time champion Hall of Fame Isaiah Thomas was arguing will be one time about Kyrie

and I said to him it was over the vaccine thing and I said I'm gonna end this conversation right now Zee by one simple question if a member of the Detroit Pistons that was such an integral part of your championship hopes

took that position what would you have done Isaiah started laughing he said as a team we had to snatch his ass up we had sat him down tied him up and we had ejected the shit into myself He said, now he might have been mad at us. He might have been mad at us.

But we would have done it. I said, I rest my case. All I'm saying is that at the end of the day, we're trying to win. And anything that gets in a way of that is secondary. Right. To that actually being a priority. That's all I'm saying. And I think Kevin Durant should have had that attitude, and I don't think he did.

You look at the West, the Nuggets won the championship. I like Nicola Yokic. I think he's one of the two best players in all of basketball. You got Phoenix. This is a year book and Katie together. Bradley Bill joined. You got the Warriors.

CP3. What's it going to be his role in that situation? The Lakers, if Anthony Davis is healthy, I like that they have depth. Austin Reeves? I like them. I like them.

How is the West going to shake out? First of all, we always root for the Lakers because they're in Southern California. I mean, if you ask me, do I want to go to San Francisco, L.A. It's L.A. all day, every day. twice or Sundays. So just for my own personal preferences, it's always L.A.

L.A. Miami is my dream scenario. That's why I was so miserable doing COVID, because the one time I wanted to get my dream. Oh, you can just go close to COVID. It was in the bubble. It was in the bubble. I was so depressed. I was so depressed.

But I'll tell you this. I don't believe in Anthony Davis in terms of his availability. I'm not talking about his skill set. I'm not talking about whether he cares or not. I'm talking about injury prone. sporadic, there's something going on with him where instead of talking about me getting in the gym, you need to be talking to him to get in the gym. Because he's up and down.

It's like this brother sat up there and ate a healthy meal one day and then ate a bag of skittles the next and it's the, just plummet. You know what I'm saying? I don't understand it. And I can't have faith in that. I think they'll make the playoffs, I think they'll be formidable. I dismissed the Clippers because I just don't believe that Kaua Linder will ever be healthy. I just don't believe it. Well, Paul George, if there's much time.

I agree with you. That's totally, totally true. I remember I just saw the numbers recently. I think Paul George misses about 38% of his games and Guise at 48%. So I think it's around that. Paul George talking about he's going to play bully ball and all that. So we'll see. You understand what I'm saying?

Especially he was talking to him and Devin Booker was going back and forth. I got to see that. Because I know Devin Book is coming. He did that dude. Yeah, he's real. Devin Book is for it. And I'm talking about his mentality. He ain't scared of nothing.

He's coming for you. So I definitely respect that. we're going to see what Bill and KD do together as well. Phoenix, to me, should be the favorites. You look at Denver. They're obviously formidable, and you've got that cohesiveness. So I would tell you a rematch between Denver and Phoenix and all likelihood to conference finals,

as opposed to the divisional playoff round, semifinals, rather. We'll see that. But that's what comes to my mind. I don't expect much from Dallas. Even though Anthony Edwards is on the rise, I don't expect much from Minnesota. I don't expect much from Minnesota. Dallas, to me, they don't have the personnel.

Do you think Minnesota should not run the team through Anthony Edwards as opposed to can't? Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. Totally. I think that Anthony Edwards is one of those dudes. He's one of those dudes. He's coming. And I feel that way. But I definitely think that when you look at the two teams, I

would look at Phoenix and Denver and then I would look at the Lakers and Clippers on the outside on the come up. That's how I view the West. You didn't mention the Grizzlies. Obviously the job situation. Hopefully, I think there I should have mentioned the Grizzlies. They're

they're appealing his 25 game suspension. So I'm under the assumption that it's going to stick. Let's just say for this argument, it's going to stick. It's going to stick. You've been outspoken.

Yep. I've been very outspoken. And I don't know Jha, but if I could sit down, I just thought he was moving in a direction that wasn't conducive to accomplish what he really, really wanted to accomplish.

That's been an outstanding basketball player, be a brand, the Jha brand being one of the faces of the NBA. I agree with you. What if there's some advice you could give him, I don't know how well you know his dad. I don't, I don't. I've met him both a once. Jaya's a great player. Jaws phenomenal.

And I think that Jha is going to come back with a vengeance. You know, I really, really believe he's going to come back with a vengeance. He's going to wreak havoc. And I love the acquisition of Marcus Smart. I got Boston, by the way, is my favorite overall. Really? Yes, I do. Wow.

I think Porzingis at 7-3 with the ability to step away in the basket and shoot combined with Tatum and Brown still keeping Al Hawford okay and Robert Williams in the mix with a Derek where with a Derek White with a Malcolm Brogden the reigning sixth man of the year I think when you look at their depth their athleticism their perimeter shooting their ability to defend the fact that Missoula has a year under his belt coaching the team I think all of those things bode well for Boston they've been knocking on the door long enough you Jalen Brown you just sign for $300 million you damn well better show up and if you and you and you're any of you and you If you Jason Tatum, who's in line for about 360 million, you damn well better to show up.

And so I'm going to assume that they will. But I think Mark is smart. Losing him, it'll be felt to some degree. But I definitely think it's going to help Memphis immensely. And I think that, you know, and I think that. And you get big Stephen Adams back and Clark. And people don't realize Adams and Clark being gone, Lakers don't beat them like that if Adams and Clark are healthy. That just doesn't happen because Adams and Clark are no joke.

And so I take that into consideration as well. Having said all of that, I'm not sure in their shooting collectively. Right. Okay, so that concerns me. I think they're sporadic defensively. That concerns me. I think their coaching concerns me to some degree. So I look at Memphis.

But in terms of my advice to Jai, it's this, man, some people you've got to leave behind. And I don't mean cut them off like you don't know them. Right. I don't mean cut them off like you can't be with them. them. But I'll give you a perfect example. I got brothers that I grew up with in Queens, New York. Half of them are dead. Because, you know, the drug game was real prevalent. And I was blessed that I was never a part of it. Um, but most of my friends were. And, you know, I got a couple of brothers that, you know, did some time. And I'll always look out for them. I'll always have

love for them. Shannon, they can't hang with me. No. They can't hang with me. You're not coming to work with me. You're not coming to a game with me. That's not happening. Now, I see in neighborhood. What's up how you doing? You need me for anything. What's so what you need. I can help you're more happy to do that. So I'm not talking about ostracizing you. But the NBA is your business. What happened with John Moran cost him about $60 million. $60 million. You ain't getting that back. No. No matter how much money you get, you ain't getting that back. And so for me, you know, with his dad, look, I'm a father. You're a father. Here's the deal. I know you can't tell your son literally tell him what to do. He's a grown up.

Right. But certain things he don't need to be doing right in front of you. Correct. You're a grown up. You're dead. And you are not supposed to be trying to live the life. He living. You know what I'm saying?

Y'all made it. And you're going to make it even more. And so it's not to cast dispersions, insult them, denigrate them in any way. Who wouldn't root for John Moran? Who ain't rooting for him to succeed? I don't know anybody that ain't rooting for him.

I know I'm rooting for him. I know you're rooting for him. But how are we helping you if we see you doing stuff that we know could potentially lead to your downfall and we say nothing? Are we really trying to help you if we say nothing?

No. We're not trying to help you. And that's why we say something because we want you to correct the errors so you could rise and prosper and live your life. I don't know what you feel about this, but I said this at the time, the 75th anniversary. I said Anthony Davis shouldn't have made it over Dwight Howard. Stan Van Gundy said you can't make a case to say as Anthony Davis career has been better than the white Howard. What's your take on that?

I kind of agree. Anthony Davis was a prolific scorer. but at the end of the day he wasn't relevant until he arrived to the Lakers with LeBron. Correct. Dwight Howard was a three-time defensive player

of the year, extraordinary shot blocker and eraser, was never the offensive player that Anthony Davis was, but certainly was just as impactful. Yes. And more successful because he was on a squad

that Anthony Davis won a championship with as a reserve. Right. Which means he's got a ring too. Right. And so you offset that and now look at their careers. Even though the talent that is Anthony Davis, I consider to be better than the White Howard. The impact of your career is not greater than that of the White Howard.

Dwight Howard took the team to the NBA finals. Yes, he did. In his prime, he was one of the five best players in the NBA. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I can't disagree with that. I can't disagree. I can say Anthony Davis is a better talent.

Yes. But it also highlights what you must not be doing. Right. Because a lesser talent that is Dwight Howard was more impactful than you were. Right. Players under 25. You got Luca, J.T. Tray Young, Zion, Anthony Edwards.

You know what? Zion. Because you've been very, I've been very outspoken. Stephen that you know I'm a nutritional guy. I'm in the body. And I said that he's just too big. Right. I say, y'all keep all sheddy.

You don't know what's going on. I say, bro, the man is three. I can tell he's not eating the way he should in order to maximize the many burgers. But you know you in New Orleans, you know in New Orleans eating gumbo and et tufei and jambalaya. Everything. Yeah. So what, how do we get Zion to understand?

Because I think the greatest person that he needs to sit down and have an hour long conversation with is Charles Barkley. He's a more athletic, Charles Barkley. I just got to be honest. I don't think he cares enough. Wow. I don't think he cares enough. I'm not saying he doesn't care. I'm not talking about Karen. I'm talking about that fire.

That passion. That is the end all beyond. Because I believe he's in a market he don't want to be in. I said that. I believe if he was in New York or someplace where he really, really wanted to be, we see a more dedicated Zion to his physicality. And the point is that I don't know that to be sure, but you can't walk around as big as he is. No. And tell me you dedicated.

Right. You can't. You can't. Because even when you're restricted in terms of your mobility, you know what you'll do? You'll eat less and you'll eat better because you'll fear bloating. No. You'll fear blowing up and not being ready when called upon once you hear. Right.

That hasn't been the case. Because if you eat too many games. If you eating bad while you're active in running up and down the court, what the hell you think you're going to eat when you can't run up and down the court? That's right. So now the 30 pounds that you took off because you was healthy and athletic and running up and down the court, you've got to put 50 back on? Exactly.

And that's exactly how I feel. And because of that, again, I love Zion's game. I believe he's a potential superstar in this league. He's something to behold. But I think it's fair to question. his commitment to his conditioning. Right. And if you're questioning somebody's commitment to conditioning,

you're questioning, you're questioning whether or not they care. And that's really what it comes down to. Right. We've talked about players under 25. Luca, Jason Tatum, Tray Young, Zion, Anthony Edwards, Lamello, Shea Gilges, D. Fox, or Jordan Poole. I'm going to give you one guy of those guys I mentioned.

Who you take it? A lot of people would say, Luca. I'm going to say Jason Taylor. Jason Tatum 6-9. Jason Statenham could shoot the three. I saw Jason Tatum drop 46 in a close-out playoff game 6 in Milwaukee. I saw Jason Tatum handle his business in the game 7. I've seen a young Jason Tatum who ain't even 27 years of age yet be a primary option on a team that's going to five conference championship games,

championship series, and an NBA finals. I just look at him and I say And not only that, we just talked about conditioning There have been times when we've looked at Luker And we've said, he ain't in shape He's getting in shape As the season progresses. We look at Jason Tatum from day one

And say he's in shape Right That matters to me I would go with Jason Tatum Andre Agar Adela says The player with the mentality As closest to Kobe Bryant is Jimmy Butler You agree with that?

closest to Kobe Bryant is Jimmy Butler. As far as mentality. You could say that, I would beg to differ. Who you like? Devin Booker. Jimmy Butler works. But the difference between Jimmy Butler and Devin Booker is Jimmy Butler doesn't care that much about offense

until the postseason arrived. Kobe cared about it all the time. Yeah. And Devin Booker cares about it all the time. Right. They coming out looking for their shot from opening to off. Jimmy Butler, sometimes you literally feel like you got to throw something at him just to make him shoot the basketball. Right.

It's not a priority for him. And that is why I would say no on that Kobe comparison. Not much is known about Stephen A's private life. Yep. You like myself, are very, very private. Yep. How have you been able to maintain that level of privacy? Number one.

I'm quick to sell somebody to mind their damn business. You know, and that's a kind way of putting it. And I will cancel a woman in the heartbeat that talks about my business. She utters my name. What? Publicly about us. She's gone. I wouldn't hesitate.

She's happy for us. I don't care. I don't care. You know why? Because I want you to know who my woman is when she's missing. Smith. I'm talking about publicly. I'm not talking about, you know, Shannon going to beat my girl.

You know, Jamie's met my girl. You know what I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about announcing it, you see us, and people talk. Oh, no. Let them talk. You better not talk. I will cancel you quicker than you. So she can't post nothing on IG. Never. She wouldn't

make it to my crib. I'm not joking. She wouldn't make it to my credit. She can live five She'd be going by five five minutes. I don't play that because here's the thing. I'm in the public eye. Let me tell you what I detest, what I detest. And I've never done this to another man.

It makes me cringe when this happens to a man. I can't get over how these stars be messing with somebody and then you with somebody else. Well, that's who he used to mess with. Yeah, they do. Nah, no, no. I mean, look, who you're talking about? It could be an ex.

I'd be like, who you're talking about? That's a friend. I don't know what you're talking about. Steve, you just messed with her. Who? I ain't you just mess with her. No, no, you're talking about. Ain't none of your business.

Right. I'm not doing that. Okay. You know, when she missed it, you'll know who she is. Right. Until that time, I might have messed with her. I might not have messed with her. You'll never know.

Right. I don't do that. And I can't stand when we see people out here, like sharing their information and, you know, it's on Instagram and Twitter. Right. Right. Right. And grown ass men and women.

When did everybody, when did your business become everybody? else's business. I don't, I don't vibe with that. I have no, no patience with that. And anybody who knows me, and I mean, anybody who knows me, they'll tell you right now, I live in LA five minutes from where we are, they wouldn't make it to my cred being my woman if I saw something on social media that was initiated by them about me. They out. I wouldn't hesitate. I have been that way, my entire adult life, and I will never change. change when in that regard. I could be getting ready getting married, getting married, wedding called off.

So it was always... I'm playing the game with me. So it was always your... It was always as once you got into the public eye was to be private. Absolutely. It's not everybody's business. It's not everybody's business. Look, I know people's business. You see me. I'm on TV. I'm a professional journalist.

I challenge anybody to talk about Stephen A talking about their personal private business. Yeah. Now, if you're walking out public and putting everything on display and all of that. All right, that's fine. You know what I'm saying? I just talking about Megan Gooden to find that stuff the other day. Okay, I get it.

You understand what I'm saying? She's been fine for you. You know what I mean? I got it. You know, stuff like that. But you don't hear me talking about people's private business. I don't do it. I don't, and I never, ever will. I read what your daughters don't like when people come up to you and ask for autographs when

they're in your presence. Oh, they, oh my Lord. Listen, man. You did they have a social media presence? A little bit, but I try to monitor it. You know, I lead that to their mom, but I will tell you this for me. Oh, my God. Being a dad for daughters is the greatest blessing and the worst curse.

Because the blessing is you didn't know what love is until late. You thought you knew what love was. And then they came along. Yeah, man. The curse is you didn't know what love is until they came along. So you're never at peace. You're always worried about everything. You worry about everything.

And they did daddy's daughters. So they like me from the standpoint, like, first of all, I'm not that special. I'm just, dad, what is so big about you? I mean, please. Why? All you do is talk on television. I mean, who cares? Oh, Lord.

Can we hurry up, please? What do they want your order to grab for? I mean, but then they get attitude because it's like they're taking our time. Right. Hurry up. Right.

Like literally. And it's like, and I knew, I knew from the time my daughters was like seven, eight years old. I came home and I had to do, I had to get to Dallas. I was supposed to go from L.A. straight to Dallas.

I literally flew home on the red eye just to take them to school and to give them a hug and the kiss. And I took them to school. They were all happy and bouncing around and all that stuff. And I drove them to school. And I said, okay, Daddy got to go.

They're like, what? And I was like this. I probably, they got to go to work. In Dallas, I cry. And the teacher's like, just go. Just go. Right? And I get on the road.

I'm going to the airport. And I call the school to speak to him. And they're like, could you call back later? They don't want to talk to you. And I'm like, this is 70 years old. And I knew then my life's over. It belongs to them. They run my life.

So I squeeze in things for me. Right. But they're the generals. That's how it goes. Do your kids watch? Your kids, they're at the age now. They understand what you do. 15 and 14.

Yeah. So they understand what you do. Yes. They know who they know who dad is. That's right. That's right. And they see me lied on a lot because a lot of times I've been accused of saying something or doing something and they know better. Well, I was accused of being in some places.

They were like, Daddy, you was with us. You know, but it's like it is what it is. They understand it. And I tell them it's about tough skin. You can't, you can't overreact to everything you have to understand. When you're in the public eye, people are going to lie on you all the time. They're going to invade your privacy. They're going instigate stuff.

They're willing, they're looking to provoke a reaction. And I can't give it to them because if I do, then I take debate and it can jeopardy. for Dodger, what I'm trying to build. And so you explain those things to them and you hope that they understand. What advice would you give a young journalist? Because, you know, the newspaper business is not what it was when you got into it.

Everybody gets their, you know, because it's so instantaneous now, Stephen A. You've got social media. So now ain't nobody just sitting there watching the 6 o'clock news. And there's nobody just reading the newspaper. So what advice would you give young journalists? First of all, understand that

everything feeds off of information. You've got to be about the business of acquiring intel and information because that means you have something to talk about. You have something to write about. You have something to express opinions about. Whether it be via radio, television, podcast, newspaper, magazines,com, whatever, whatever. Content is king. Right.

Content will never go anywhere. How people are receiving that content is what has changed. Linear television was once he. Now it's dissipating before our very eyes. There are some people that are projecting within the next decade, YouTube will be more popular than some of the networks, if not already. And so you have to take that into consideration as point number one. Point number two is that you're trying to build something, build a brand, know who you are, know what you stand for, recognize what gravitates folks towards you and what doesn't. And that's how you go about the business of building something.

Number three, master your business. You got to know what you're talking about. You gotta know what you want to do. A lot of people want a podcast. Well, do you know what comes with a podcast? It ain't just a microphone and a camera. There's a production team that's behind the scenes. There's a sales and marketing angle.

There's a sales angle that comes with it, a marketing angle that comes with it. A technological angle that comes with it. There's people operating these cameras, you know, these microphones, making sure the audio is right, et cetera, so how much is that going to cost? Okay, what level of course comes with it, okay? One of the things that I will give advice

to a lot of students want to come up. No matter what major you take, minor in business, because everything comes down to business now. You've got to be about the business of knowing what your business entails. That way you know how to do business. You know what you're negotiating. You have an idea what it entails. You know when you've made mistakes and how to pick up on that. I started my own podcast months ago.

I've made a lot of mistakes. Why? Because I never had a podcast before. I had to learn through osmosis. But I put myself through that fire initially on purpose. So when it grew as it's been growing, then I'm in a position to now make the proper decisions because I use that, you know, that infancy period to really learn and gain knowledge about the industry. How much is going to cost, what my losses and my profits look like, et cetera, et cetera. All of those things are things that you have to know because the business itself that used to exist is no longer.

Now they're looking for you to bring your business to them. Shannon Sharp, you own your own podcast, club Shay Shay, over a million followers doing your thing. Proud of you, my brother, keep doing your thing. No doubt. You got to keep doing that. You own and operate your business, and there's people around you that's working for you. So you're going to be attractive because you're bringing a business to a potential network to buy, to lease to, et cetera, et cetera. They don't want to just employ people anymore.

They don't want to deal with that overhead. They don't want to deal with the expenses that come with the overhead. want you to deal with that now. Pat McAfee. Pat McAfee, the deal he just signed with he has been you got so many people hating on him. Shut up. All of y'all shut up. Yes. The man had his own business. He spent years developing his own business betting on himself just like you bet on yourself just like I'm betting on myself. I just started betting on myself because I was hindered contractually and I had a lot of obstacles to overcome in my career before I could get to this point. Although this was always the vision, I had to start late. This is what comes with it.

know those things, you become a business. And as Jay-Z would say, I'm not a business man, I'm a business man. And that's what people want to see. I'm going to get you out of here on this one. We both work with Skip. You work with him, I think, a little longer than I have. And we both have given him

credit for opening up his platform and allowing us to be who we are. And we could grow our own platforms become, as you mentioned earlier, businesses of ourselves. What's, for the people, I don't know how many people have heard and I'm gonna follow up after you.

Sure. Skip, what's he really like? Because I think the thing is, if you've never met him, you just see him on television, you say, okay, that's him with who he is. Skip's a different beast. I don't know if you can just describe him in one simple way.

You can. You can. This dude's definition of advice is Diet Mountain Dew. This dude was in the 60s and in the 70s running anywhere for five to eight miles a day. Eating the same meals for breakfast, lunch, dinner. introducing himself to his now wife and their first date

you will never be more important than my job get over that from now or don't bother I mean that's his definition of turning her on I guess so I'm like I'm just like that's he's a different animal you know and there are highs and lows

and lows that come with him correct he knows that it's highs and lows that come with me there's highs and lows that come with you and everybody else And that's the way it goes. But, you know, I'm a man first. And it's about a core decency of appreciation. The reality is, is that no matter how problematic, and he can be problematic at times,

no matter how problematic he can be, the reality is that I wouldn't be where I am today if he didn't give me that opportunity on first take. And so for me, to be where I am and to know that it's, spring boards off of something that he was directly involved in making happen for me to insult him

in any way is just disrespectful it's wrong and it's something that I would never do now that don't mean I can't disagree with him absolutely that doesn't mean that I can't feel that he's wrong and anybody like a Jamie Harwood yourself and others who know me have gotten to know me in your case

you know I would tell him he's wrong to his face right you know knows where I stand, but it doesn't take away my love and appreciation for him and the fact that he will always be a brother from another mother to me. So I've always made that clear with everybody. Yeah, it's not often that someone can give you that opportunity. And I've said this several times, for me, I cannot let six months ruin six and a half good years.

Right. Because sometimes people are willing to throw everything away for one mistake, but one bad comment or one something like this. And even though that was all we were supposed to get, my sister tells me this all the time. Say Shannon, this was all we're supposed to get. If I, about five, four months ago, I had Tabitha Brown.

She's great. I've interviewed her before. She's fantastic. Stephen A. She had no idea of this was going on. So we wrapped the interview and I'm going to end it on this one. And I'm taking off my microphone. She says, is the mics off? I said, well I'm taking my mic off, you can take yours off. We took our mics off and she leans in close

to me. She said, I had a dream last night. God told me it's going to be okay and for you to go ahead and do what you need to do. She says it's going to be different, but you need to go on your own. Now, God told me that. She said, now you do what you want to do with it. But God just, she said, and when I get dreams like this and I'm ever in the person's presence, it's my duty to tell them a month later. Yeah. and I'm like

when she's telling me to Stephen A. You see how you're looking at me I'm looking at her How you know what's going on? She said God told me this last night And it's funny that I'm sitting here

doing this interview with you And I needed to tell you this Once she told me that I was at peace Because I'm racking my brain I'm like what did I do? Did I say something? Did I offend somebody?

I mean I just I think I'm doing a great job She said be at peace with it Yeah And that's what I told you. You did. That's what I told you. Because the reality of the situation is that, you know, I'm not going to apologize.

Listen, I got a lot of friends over there. All right. We all know that. I know a lot of people. But that don't mean that what happened to you is fair. Plain and simple. Okay. That ain't the end of the world.

Nope. But it is what it is. So, you know, to me, it was just important for us in this industry to stand up and say, yo, he's one of us. he can't let him go out like this. And that was it for me. It was like, it was just that simple. You go wherever you want. You want to come first take fine.

You want to go somewhere else, fine. Because I got my crew here first take and I'm not trying to get rid of anybody. You understand what I'm saying? Because I'm not going to do this forever. And when it's my time to go, it's my time to go. Right. And it's time for somebody else to step up.

But as long as I'm here, my attitude was going to be, listen, the people that have been a treasure and a tribute to this industry are the people that I'm going to do all that I can to remind folks. This is what they do. I don't want to be one of those dudes that I got these platforms first take and I got my podcast and I'm doing an NBA countdown and I got more stuff coming down the line and everything like that. And all I'm talking about is what I'm doing.

It's my job to highlight where everybody else is doing. You wanted a few, Stephen A. Because I know a lot of people that could have opportunities to help somebody, but they want to be the only ninja with money. No. I don't want that. And I told you this, and I'll tell the audience that I told you this. I said, you might be a first take for one year. You might be a first take for years to come.

It's my responsibility, and I'm dead serious. It's a heart attack. It's my responsibility to make sure that you are more successful with me than you were before you arrived. That's what you told me. That's my responsibility. And I'm going to make sure it happens come hell of high water. We ain't going down, brother. We only don't know.

You know what I do. You know. That's just the way it's going to be. Goatman coming. That's right. You know what it is? You know. Oh man.

You know. You know. I ain't trying to lose. No, we don't know. I'm never about that. Anybody that knows me and about that. I don't mean no disrespect to nobody. All right.

Y'all heard it. That's him. As good as it gets right here, Stephen A. Smith. On Monday, September 4. No doubt. All my life. They're grinding all my life.

sacrifice hustle paid the price want to slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life i've been grinding all my life all my life sacrifice hustle paid the price want a slice got the roll of dice that's why all my life i've been grinding all my life another podcast from some snl late night comedy guy not quite unhumor me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network, on TikTok.