The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show - CJ McCollum

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

CJ McCollum joins ‘The Draymond Green Show’ to discuss his recruiting journey as an undersized guard, how journalism has played a part in his NBA career, being traded from the Portland Trail Blazers to the New Orleans Pelicans, what he’s been able to teach young players like Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram, being the NBA Player’s Association President, his mindset coming up in sports media, and more. Produced by: Jackson Safon #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. Our next guest is a guy who I actually had the opportunity to play against in college before the majority of you were basketball smart enough to even know his name because the name on the front of the jersey didn't quite match the talent in the name with the back of the jersey. And so because you can't look and see talent, it needs to be at Duke. It needs to be at Kentucky. It needs to be at Michigan State. You miss out on a talent like this. However, like I said, I had the opportunity to play against him.

And I saw firsthand how good he was from Ken, Ohio, just a guy who I've gotten to know, Mr. President himself for Players Association, soon to be All-Star, C.J. McCullough, welcome to the show, my brother. Appreciate you. Have me on the show, man. It's a pleasure. Absolutely. I mean, let's get right into it. You know, coming from Ken, Ohio, your freshman year, you five, too.

But I know at that point you had to wiggle because it's just in you. Like, that's how you play. That's how your older brother play, which a lot of people don't know. CJ's older brother, Eric McCollum, has played in EuroLeague for 10 years, bucket-getter. So that's just in you. But at 5-2, going into your freshman year, or your freshman year, were there

any worries that your future in basketball wouldn't be quite what is shaped out to be just because you were small or did you think? I'm going to hit my gross spur. There was times where I thought that my growth spurt might come too late. Once high school starts, you know,

everybody's taller than you. Girls is taller than you. It's hard to create separation in the games. The finishing around the basket is nearly impossible. You gotta have a crazy floater just because of the way they closed space. And I've seen that my dad, my dad actually graduated high school with 5-8. And my dad is 6-3 now and I thought to myself, like, I hope that it doesn't take that long, you know what I mean, for me to grow. Because 5-8 might be too late my senior year.

Like it'll be hard for me to get scholarships. So that was the only concern was that my growth part would take too long. And I was worried about that. But I started school early and I graduated high school with 17. So I knew my talent was there. I knew I had this skill set. I worked harder than most, and I just kind of refined my skills,

but I was just hoping that I would get tall early so that I could get a scholarship and then kind of settle into the hype. And at what point did you actually hit that gross firm? So I was 5-2, and I played three-quarters JV, two-quarters varsity, because that was when you could only play five-quarters in Ohio. And my brother, you talked about,

he was a starting point guard, so I wasn't better than him, and I wasn't going to play over him. So I kind of watched and played at the end of the game. my sophomore year, I was 5, 6, 108 pounds. And yeah, like 5, 6, 108 pounds. And I was taller. So, like, that was cool, right?

Like, being a little bit taller. Like, I didn't have to create as much space. But that's when I was really worried. Like, I was like, damn, I'm only 5, 6. I ain't got no scholarship offered. Nobody's really recruiting me. I'm coming off the bench on my varsity team, even though I probably should have been the starter.

I'm coming off the bench, not really contributing hitting threes every now and then, like, certified, like, high school role players. like think like I'm better than skip Bayliss but like but the points per game wasn't like where it should be right for my skill set so like that's where I was at and then my junior year I really dedicated myself to like shooting right because I could always shoot a little bit but I was like this is this is going to be the separator for me is you know I'm a good pastor but I'm not a great pastor right I can play defense but I'm not a great defender I got some athleticism but it's not

elite. So I was like, what can I do well to like get noticed? It's like, I got to be able to shoot and I got to be able to drill and I got to be able to create shots off the bounce because that was my like superpower, so to speak, where it's like I can do this better than everything else. So I really worked on that in the summer of my brother. And I grew at 511. And when I got to 511, it was like the game was easy. At 511, it was very easy because I had been so small for so long. I got used to having to do everything harder, you know, creating space harder. You know, step back's got to be harder. Floater's got to be more cris. You only get so many shot of tents because you're so short.

And I got taller and I made the game better. And actually, my first career start, I broke the school record. I hit eight threes and I had 54 points. And I got a letter from Lehigh to next day. And that's what I knew. It's like, okay, I'm good enough to go to school at this size, but hope that I can get bigger. And so you end up getting a letter from Lehigh. But why, like, ultimately, did you have more offers?

Why Lehigh in the end? Yeah. I mean, I went through this. Boulder Green was the first Ohio school to offer me. They offered me first after I played that year out. So I go from average and six points a game to 25. I was 25, like basically five and five as a junior at 511. And I go play for King James, shout out of Brun.

I go play for his AAU team that year. And that was my first time, like, really on the scene because I sat the bench for Aalha Red. Like at 5'7, I didn't really play. Like I was like the third stream point guard. Well, you know, second string point guard don't really play in AAU because. because I started to play the whole game. So I would come in and pick up full court and run the offense and then go sit down. So I play like seven to ten minutes a night, like not really impacted the game.

And that was my first year. And I started playing really well. I played against John, John Wall at a tournament at Bull Williams. And I played well. They had 25 and 5. And obviously John was killing us, but everybody is watching because it's John. And I started getting letters, started getting recruited. And I actually lied.

you know, after the games, you get an interview and I lied and said I had an offer from Boise State, and I didn't say it's just recruited me. And I got a few offers after that. I got a few offers. I said like the University of Affirmant offered me in Boise State. And then I got like, I had like at one point I had 11 offers. These are all small schools. So Eastern Michigan, Central Michigan, Bowling Green, Lehigh offered, University of Affirmat ended up offering St. Francis, PA,

a bunch of mid-majors, but I was getting recruited by, like, St. Louis, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State. And it's funny because I really wanted to go to, like, I called it like a bigger conference, but like a more academic-based school to where, like, I'm playing against these good schools, but like I can still play and still get playing time, right?

Like, this is when Notre Dame wasn't that good. This is when Penn State, this is like Taylor Battle Day. They was kind of becoming better, but they wasn't really like known for, football. You know what I'm saying? So they ended up not offering me. I wanted to go to Akron University, right? Because it was down the street from the crib. It was a small school. I'm like, bet I can plan them back. 15 minutes from the crib. My cousin played football there. Shaka trained me since I was a kid. And this is when Shaka was on staff. And Dan Brot looked me in my face and said,

I don't have any more scholarship offers. Zeke Marshall was our only scholarship for your class. Zeke was a seven foot blue chip center. I said, look, man, if you can give me a scholarship, I'll come, but I can't register. I won't make it. I won't make it. I won't make a through school. Like, I love basketball. And if I can't loop, I won't be able to be as locked in engaged. And I can't do a year without it. I gave him two days. They didn't offer me. Took a visit to Lehigh. And at that point, like, I started with 11 offers. Guys start committing. You know how it go. I go for 11 offers to 8 to 6 to 5. I got three offers left. Like, guys, is committing. I'm going into my senior season. And Lehigh was the school that was with me from the

beginning. They was, they was authentic. They was genuine. They kind of told me what my role would be. I knew I was going to be in a Patriot League, so it was a good education. It was a six-hour drive from home, and I didn't want to be too close to homes. And I was like, bet I can still drive home, but you got to really want to see me to come see me type of thing. And it ended up working out. And I always say that's the best decision I ever made in my life was going to Lehigh. I met my wife there. I got to play the game I love.

I got a degree. I majored in journalism. I want a couple championships. And that kind of that propelled me to learn how to carry a low differently, right? like the academic low, the course low was crazy, to be able to work out, to have to lead a team, to go through like being a freshman, to being a man, and like what comes with that, what comes with empowering and being a leader, how to lead by example, how to curse people out when I need to. Like it gave me the perfect balance on like what I felt like I was going to need when this

game is over, so I'm thankful for it. That's amazing. That's incredible. So you finish out of Lee, how you win Patriot League player the year twice. then you go on to be the 10th overall pick by the Trailblazers. At the time, the Trailblazer had just drafted Dane with the sixth pick a year before. What was your mindset going in? Like, I'm sure you were hearing you were too small to be a two guard at that time

because when we came in the lead, the league was really big. The league is small today. The league was really big. Two centers, essentially playing Power 4 in the center. You got Power 4 is playing a three spot. So I'm sure you're, were hearing you were too small to play the two, but what was your mindset coming in knowing that they had just drafted Dame with the six pick and now they're dropping you with the 10th

fit? Yeah, my mindset was to just go be a hooper. Dame and I had talked. We actually got connected by a mutual friend after I broke my foot my senior year. So we had just been talking just, I was asking about his rehab. Was it like in the league? Like you came from a small school. What should I be working on? Like, can I still play in the league after this broken foot? You know what I'm saying? This is the point in time where like you get hurt and you just start thinking like, damn, maybe this is it. maybe I'm going to have to go overseas. My brother was already over there.

So I was just kind of coming to terms with, if I got to go over to Europe, like I know what that looked like. I can go do that. And then was like, you're going to be in the league. You're going to be a lottery pick. And I'm like, bro,

I just broke my foot. Like, my senior season is over. Like, I'm not playing. And my body of work was there, obviously. But, you know, when we was coming out, it was like a crime to be in school that long. Like, they wanted you to get in and out. And they, even though I was younger

than a lot of the sophomores and freshmen, basically because I was 20, it just felt like I stayed too long and I missed my window and he was like you're going to be a lottery pick and then fast forward he's like if you're there we're going to take you and I'm like okay like this is the franchise saying that they're going to draft me if I'm there and we we got similar games you know what I'm saying like I played the two because Marquis Hall you know who works at Nike absolutely he was the point guard right when I was there so I just slated it to two because it made sense and I played a lot of one and I was just like look man I don't ball in my hands ball not in my hands

Like, I just want to hoop. I'll figure it out. I can beat a man. I can play off the man. Like, I'm not tripping. And I said that in my interviews when I did the draft process. And they like my demeanor. They like that dame has solidified himself as a guy who went to school for a long time.

Obviously, you play alongside Steph. That matter. And there was just a body of work from guys, Eric Maynard, guys who had been in the league for a while, George Hill, right, who went to school for a long time. So they knew they were mentally ready for different roles. And I just thought to myself, like, I got to get to it. And then I'll never forget the league is crazy, dog. So I get drafted.

My phone dies. And I don't get to talk for a while until like nobody because my phone is dead. We fast forward to rookie orientation. And I'm sitting there. I'm thinking to myself, I'm adding up the minutes in my head. Like, all right, let's say I don't start. I back up Wesley Mads to two. So let's call it 12 to 15 minutes.

And now back up Dane. Let's call it 11 12 minutes. I'm like, I'm going to play about 22 to 27 minutes a night in two different positions, right? Because it's 48 minutes. Dane played 36. That's 12. if West plays 34, that's 14. Like, I'll take those 26 minutes.

I'm cool. We trade for Mo Williams while I'm in Ricky transition. I love Mo, but I was just like, damn, look at my minutes. Like, that's what I thought right away. Like, 26 minutes, they're going to look the same. And then I end up breaking my foot to last day at training camp again. And the rest is kind of history. But it's a blessing the way that, like, kind of happened, right?

The mental anguish that I went through. the injury that I got my senior year kind of shifted my mentality of what's important, how to work, and how to do stuff outside of basketball. And that's kind of how I fell into the stuff that I do today

is because I couldn't hoop during the most pivotal time of my life. And I had to, I started meditate and I started going to high yoga. I started really becoming more in tune with myself, with nature, and with my mental side of things

because I was always focused and locked in, but I didn't really have a plan to keep it a buck. Like, it was hoop. And I majored journalism because I watched Stewart Scott and I was like, I want to work on TV one day and want to talk about sports. Then I started figuring out like,

how do I use this degree? Like, how do I leverage this? And that injury really is shifted my mentality. So you've led me to speaking of you about media. And what I've tried to learn in these interviews is like you allow the person that you're interview, you allow them to guide the interview. However, because you've done so much in media,

I'm just going to acknowledge for the listeners and for you who's an expert that has been doing this way longer than I have. I'm going to acknowledge that I'm not going to follow you right now because your media catalog is so deep that we got to speak about that in depth. And I really want to get to your time with the Blazers and your NBA career because I think it's been incredible

and quite frankly the fact that you haven't been an all-star is baffling to me to like, to average 20 points in this league year after year after year. And y'all team was having success. It wasn't like you were average of 20 points and y'all were 11 C, 12, C, C, C, y'all was in success. Y'all was having success. And quite frankly, probably be the reason y'all didn't have more success

just because y'all kept me nuts. Like, I think we met y'all, what, two or three times in the playoffs. Yeah, like two straight years a year off and then another year, basically, yeah. And so, I want to continue to talk a little bit about you and Dame, but also going to that. But in saying all of that, you said that that year was a blessing for you once you got hurt. And I'm assuming it was a blessing because Mo Williams ended up playing a lot that year, and then he ended up moving on.

So once you got healthy, there was a role for you to. to slide right into. Is that why you feel like it was a blessing? I think it was a combination of things like, right? Because that next year, we trade for Aaron to follow and we signed Steve Blake. So I played a little bit more, but not as much as I felt like I should have.

I mean, watching my peers, you know, watching my guy Michael Carter-Wiland was here to year, watching my friends get 25, 35 minutes a night. You had this envy and this jealousy in your heart, not at them, but at the fact that they got a role that you felt like you deserve. on your own merit and you didn't have it. And I think it taught me to slow down.

It taught me to be patient. I read more. I joke all the time. I said, I went to a school major journalism. I read more now than I did when I was in college. And when I got hurt, I started reading. I started really slowing things down because I couldn't think about you hurt. You can't really move.

Couldn't walk, right? I'm on crutches. Everything had to be slower and more methodical. And then my appreciation of life shifted more, not just sport, but life. Like the things I took for granted. stop taking up for granted right away. And it shifted that part of me. The game was my game, right?

Like, I got, like, when I could get back to it, I got to it. I tighten my diet up. I start to be with nutritionists. I started figuring out, like, all right, man, if you're going to do this, you got to be all the way in. Like, your career is only this long. If you're going to get hurt, it's going to be some stuff that you can't control. Everything else is going to be how it's supposed to be.

And I think that's what I did. But I was still pissed off because the next year, I only played like 15 minutes a night. And I was behind Steve Blake. We ended up signing Aaron to follow. and the Aaron ends up Wesley Matthews, Terris his Achilles, Aaron Afalo hurts his shoulder, and they had to play me. They didn't have a choice.

And then I always said, I'll be ready when I get a chance. You know what I'm saying? I won't blow a chance by not playing. I'll blow a chance by not being ready to play. So I just got ready. And when the opportunity came, I said, I'm never going to look back. And speaking or not, looking back, you and Dame go on and have an incredible partnership, make the playoffs, y'all first playoff win.

We had Dame on the show. And he talked about that first playoff series win that y'all won versus the Clippers and how much that did for y'all partnership. What did you feel like in that moment that, or even looking back on it, that winning that series against the Clippers, what did that do for you and Dan's partnership and moving forward the Blazers? It did a lot for our partnership. And I think it solidified the fact that we could play together as two small guards, right?

two guards who are ball dominant, two guards who, you know, control a lot of the offense, control a lot of the usage, have similar styles in terms of running pick and roll, can run the ISO, can catch and shoot. We kind of, I don't want to say we revolutionize games. That's too big of an adjective, but I would say that we made it more popular and more common for two guards to be able to play together and it'd be more accepted, I would say, for sure, because of the success. Because if you don't have team success, none of this matters, right?

And I probably don't get an extension. I probably don't get the state air and so on and so forth. But I will say that Dame always seen the vision. I didn't always see it. There was times where he would be like, we're going to be starting together one day. And I'm like, bro, I don't play at all. Like, I am watching.

My game starts at 3 o'clock. Like, I work out before the game. I run the stairs. Me and Will Barton play one-on-one. And I take a shower. And that's basically my day. Like, I come at 7 o'clock. Like, I already shower.

Like, I'm just watching being a good teammate. He's like, we're going to play one day. I'm like, bro, I don't see it. I don't see it. And he always seen it. And sure enough, it ended up happening. series was just, you know, for me, it was more about taking advantage of the opportunity, being the, like, I love big moments. I love big games. And I think it brings out the best of me,

because I went to a school where we didn't have a lot of fans of games, right? So when I got a chance to play out of Michigan State at Iowa State when Royce O'Neill was there, or not Royce O'Neill. What's his name? Royce White. Royce White, when he was there, like, that was my moments where it was like, okay, people may never ever be able to see you play again. They're only going to judge you on this one moment. If I get a chance to play in front of $10,000, 20,000, whatever it was, I was like, this is what I was built for.

This is what I trained for. And being in the playoffs, is when everybody's watching your games, right? It's not like you get the late T&T slot or, you know, you got a random Wednesday night in Portland. Like, it's everybody that loves basketball is watching basketball. And I wanted to make sure that I rose to the occasion. And, you know, after a slow start, I did.

For a couple years there, which you're still being with the Blazers, your name or, Not necessarily your name, but it kept coming up that. Like, they got to break it up. They got to break it up. They got to break it to them and CJF. It's not going to work.

It's not going to work. And I think those maybe started three years before you eventually got traded. Yeah. When those things first start coming out that they needed to break it up and you get traded, was there ever a point in that before it was inevitable? Like I think that last year was inevitable where you're like, yo, I think I may be, and spoke to you before and you're like, yeah, I'm just waiting. Like, I know it's happening.

But was there ever a point like during those years where, hey, y'all were still playing well and competing, but everybody's saying it's not going to work, they need to break it up? Was there ever a point for you during that where you felt like this is the year I'm going to get traded and it still didn't happen? Or did you always know that, no, it's not happening. And then that's just noise on the outside? I was in trade rumors for about six straight years.

I would say Bill Simmons used to always, I don't know, I joke about Bill all the time. He used to put me in trades all the time. He had me going to the cast. He had me going to Detroit. He had me going to go to Boston. He had some trades that I thought, I'm a realist. I look at it and I'd be like, that could work. Or like, that makes sense financially. Or if they try to do this, like, that could work. And I don't really read into too much besides the fact that

I think there's only a few players in league that are untradable. The rest of us are just pawns in this game. And it was just a number. And they got to figure out to make the numbers work. But I felt like it was good to be. wanted by more than one team because at some point, you know, the only person left in my draft classes on the same team they was drafted by is Janice. It's me and Janice and now it's just Janice. Like, that's the way it works. So I always looked and I thought to myself, first, you used to be mad. Like, you're mad at the fan base. You're angry. You're like, why don't they

want me? And you kind of feel that way, right? When you're younger, as you get older, I went through that for about a week. Like, dang, that's messed up. Like, I worked so hard for them, like, whatever. Then I thought about it. I was like, you're realistic, CJ. Like, every team's goals is to win a championship, right? Fans are irrational at times. I'm an irrational Browns fan, first of all, so I get it. That's just, I'm an irrational Browns. I feel like we're supposed to compete for a championship,

even when we're not. And I think our fans and the fans that were there at the time, they were like thinking about it. They were like, we're paying these guys too much money. And we keep being honest, we kept running to the Warriors, right? We kept running to y'all. And it was like our team and our roster wasn't built to beat you guys.

We were built to compete, but we weren't built to beat you guys. And how else were we going to be? be built to compete or beat you guys than to get get rid of the guy who makes the second most money on the team. So it was like financially, I started thinking about it. I was like, well, if they, if their plan is to try to find more assets and they're not going to trade Dame, then like, it's obviously going to be me. And I think for me, it was just more so, all right, just keep working in your game, do things the right way, be a leader, and set the example and understand that

this is the way the cars may fall for you. And I think that's the approach that I kind of had going forward. And I just always told my agent, like, be honest, me, be transparent, let me know what's going on. And before Neil was let go, I always had conversation with him. Like, you know, just be honest with me. Like, that's all I ever want is honesty. Man, I can take it. I can take honesty. I don't want to be lied to. I don't want to be betrayed. And at the very least, I don't want to find out things on Twitter. Like, just keep it a buck with me. When I'm playing well, keep it a buck when I'm not, keep it a buck. And Neil was always like that. He was always very quite frank. Like, things weren't going well. He would tell me. Things were going well. He would tell me. And when Joe was in that

position and I told Joe the same thing. I had to keep it, keep it a buck with me. Like, I'm a professional. The whispers are louder than they've ever been before. I can feel the tension. I feel the vibe shifting. I feel it. Like, that's what I think I told you. I was like, yeah, this is, this is inevitable. Like, it's about to happen. I just don't know where and I don't know when. I kind of got my family ready. I got everything kind of lined up and I took my agent. It's like, it's time. Like, my time here is up. Like, start having, like, not just inquiring conversations, but productive conversations where, like, we're not asking, we're kind of telling like this is what it's looking like for us. And, uh, and thankfully, you know, Portland was

great about the dialogue, the back and force and they handled everything first class. And I'm thankful that we were able to put something together where it was mutually beneficial, right? They get off my money. They're able to go pay aunt. They're able to go pay NERC, pay some other guys and get Josh they get some great, you know, assets. And then I think because of my trade, they were able to sign grant, which was a huge pickup for them as well. And I always say like, divorces don't always have to be messy, right? Like, my parents got divorced and they get along better now than they did when they was married. Like, divorces can end well and cordial if you handled it properly.

And I think we handled that divorce really well. It's great. Did you have any say-so or know that it was going to be New Orleans? Yeah, I knew. I knew. I knew I was going New Orleans. We had a lot of conversations about teams behind close-up. I kind of told my agent.

What I felt like was the best fit for me, my career. where I wanted to go for my wife, my son who had just been born. He was, I left after his four-week appointment. And I just felt like with the young talent, obviously you got a planet in Zion, you got Bia, who's a mega star, you got great pieces, young players. You got Willie, who you know Willie really well, great guy, with human, motivator.

You got Griff, you got Trajan, you got Swin. So I'm talking, and I'm having all these conversations, all these conversations. I'm like, this is perfect. We've got a young up-incumphant team. They need a player like me who can play different roles. I can score. I can lead. I can get off the ball and chill and watch you go to work. Like, I'm not, I'm not going to force my way into stuff. Like, I know how to play whatever way we need to play. And most importantly, I got a winner's DNA to where like I won at every level. I ain't won a championship, but I won in high school, I want in college, and I've consistently gone to the playoffs nine years

in a row. This will be 10 straight. So it's like, I know what to do. to kind of figure it out. And thankfully, we pulled a trigger, and I'm thankful to be in New Orleans. I love it. I think we're changing the culture. Fan base is shifting. What we want to accomplish is shifting,

and I'm a big part of that, and his team is a big part of that. Well, when you went to New Orleans, did you expect to be full-time point guard? Because that's something different for you and your career than you had ever done those first, what, nine years? That was a part of the reason why I wanted to be there is because I wanted to play a day.

different role. I wanted to really tap into all my tools, on my resources, all my work. And I think it was like I was in training, right, you know, in Portland, right? I got to train alongside one of the greatest players ever, right? Top 75. He just had 60 the other night, like a certified killer. I got to see what that was like, right? What is the mentality? What is the work ethic? What time is he working out? Like, how does he get ready for every game every night? Like, I got to see, I got to work alongside and we work out together, vacation together, but still my home to this day. And then, then I got to go play a certified score role, like just score, go get buckets, catch and shoot, run a pick and roll when he goes out the game, run the offense. And I got to see what that was like.

And I was like, okay, that was a really cool experience for me. It changed my outlook on basketball. It helped me grow. This is a role where some nights I got to score, some nights I don't. Some nights I might take the shot at the end of the game. Some nights I might not. But I've been prepared for this role and nurtured for this role and capable of being a full-time point I'm capable of being in a full-time shooting girl. I'm capable of playing both. I think my skill set complements on the ball, off the ball, and the ability to shoot and have a basketball IQ

makes the game so much easier when you play alongside guys who know how to have space properly. I think the game is just really easy. Coming in as a leader of this team, when you're traded to the team, Zion, I think at that time, it's hurt missing the entire season last year. And struggling with weight, you know,

the reports are concerned. coming out, did he struggle on weight? You know, they, can somebody catch a picture every now and then he looked a little heavier. And, you know, he's having knee injuries, foot injuries, which I'm not necessarily going to say being overweight at that time was what did it, but it definitely didn't help it. And, you know, coming in there and understanding that, number one, this is number one pick. Number two, generational talent, but can possibly struggle with weight issues. Did you take on that challenge and coming in there to say,

I have to do what I need to do to teach this second year guy who's a superstar making hundreds of millions of dollars already. But I need to teach him about diet. I need to teach him about taking care of his body. I need to teach him these things so that he can be available on the floor. Was that something that you had to take on and go on in New Orleans with such a young team, especially with a young guy like Zion? That was something that I was surely going to take on, but I didn't force it, right?

Like I didn't want to be the old head that preaches because I know what that looks like, right? You know how it's like when every time you see somebody telling you about what it was like back in their day. And it's like, I didn't want to be that guy. I was more like show first, then I tell. So it's like, I ain't going to say nothing. I'm going to read the room. I don't really know these guys like that. I know I'm from afar.

But I'm going to just work how I work, do what I do, eat what I eat. I show up at the same time. I work out at these times. I get my body working on at these times. And they're going to see what a real professional looks like. And then once they see that like, okay, this is how CJ is. He's very blunt. He's just very honest.

He's himself yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He sees something he don't like. He speaks on it. Sometimes he don't say nothing. Sometimes I say too much. It's like they was going to be able to get to know me better. We're going to go out to eat first. We did all that stuff before I started trying to preach.

It's like, no, I came here. I said it from day one. I said, look, man, I've been in the playoffs a straight year. It's going to be nine. And we're not in no position to make the playoffs at this point, right? Like I said, look, I work a certain type of way. I love this game. I'm going to give everything I got to this game.

And then I'm going to walk away from it. I want y'all to challenge me. I want you to coach me. I don't care if you start or if you're the last going on the bench. If you see I'm not doing something right, you tell me. I'm not running the play right because I don't go to the plays. You tell me, you help me. And that's kind of how I get down.

I'm going to challenge you all. And I want you all to challenge me. And I sat down. And I think that changed the perception of what they thought about me because I'm sure they had this idea what I was like as the president, all that stuff. And then it was like, okay, like CJ, first of all, he got real game.

But second of all, like, he talks when he needs to talk. Do you. Yeah, he keep it 100 with me. He's not going to sugarcoat nothing. If I see something I don't like, I'm telling him. I'm changing stuff within the organization that I may not like or may not think is what we should have. And I'm saying stuff and then I'm delivering. It's not like I don't just make up stuff like Z's gone on record saying like,

CJ got somebody for everything. Like I do. And I'm not, I don't just make it up. Like I really look out for people and make sure that they're smoothed. In this case, our lockers right beside each other, sit beside each other on the bus. He comes back to the team. We start talking and I'm just getting it on

on like a surface level, right? Like I broke my foot three times. What surgeon did you use? Like just general stuff, like how's your rehab going? What you're doing? What phase you in now? Did you do this? Did you do that?

It's like, I can relate. I've been there. I did it three times, dog. Like I know what you're going through mentally. Do you got a therapist? Like, how's your day to day? Like, how you struck? your days, not that you're not playing. Like, do you have a routine? So I'm just hitting him

with just like generals. I'm not, I'm not telling them what to do. I'm seeing what you're doing. And then as it progresses, then I get more comfortable. We get more comfortable. Now I'm, I'm like, this is what I think you should be doing. It's your life. Like, I always tell them, like, I don't need nothing for none of y'all. I'm not bragging. I'll assign three deals. Like, I make good money. I make good money off the court. Like, I don't, I do this because I want to, not because I have to. I want to get the best out of you. I want to get the best out of you. I want all you ought to make as much money as y'all supposed to. I'm maximizing what C.J. McCollum is supposed to be in all phases of life.

I want you to maximize what you're supposed to be. And your ceiling is a lot higher than a lot of ours. So I just want you to get there. This is all I'm saying. And I don't need no bread from you. I don't need nothing. I just want you to be able to say that when you're done, CJ kept in the buck with me.

He gave me a lot of gyms. I took him with me. And I took my talent and I ran with it. And I think now he's doing that. Obviously, he's got a little injury right now. But they all work. And that's what I love to see. Like, win or lose, whatever.

Do you work? Do you care? Do you apply to yourself? Are you maximizing your days? And this is one of the best organizations in terms of fun. Like, they make the game fun. Like, and that's what I love to be around. The locker room is fun.

The flights is fun. Like, you really, really get down with these guys. And we're not really faking the fun. Like, we really mess with each other. Turn every Thursday into payday with TNT Thursdays on Fandall Sportsbook. Doesn't matter if you win or lose. Fan Duel's given all customers $10 in bonus bets every Thursday. Just bet a $10 bill or more same game parlay on any NBA TNT game.

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an official sports betting partner of the NBA. And speaking of Zion and your team with the Pelicans in your role, guys got out to an incredible start. What, three weeks ago, three, four weeks ago was number one, number two in the West. and now currently in the midst of losing street.

How is the mood around the team and what has to be done? Obviously, health is important, and you guys have been deemed up. We kind of went through our injury spot as well. And you guys been dinged up, finally got BIA back after missing 33 games. But how is the mood around the team now with such a young team, you're riding that high, you're number one, number two in the West, everybody's feeling good. And now you've lost six in a row. I think maybe one or two games above 500.

What's the move like now, especially with trying to push young guys who hasn't been there and get them to understand what it needs to be? I think the move definitely shifted when we start losing games because we're not used to that, right? Like, we was winning. Things are going well. You know, we number one, number two in the West. Like, we're rolling. Then we start getting some injuries.

we start dropping some closed games, guys that ain't normally used to playing 30 minutes, it's playing 30 minutes, guys that ain't used to playing 20, it's playing 20. And I think it changed the rotation and the body started to kind of feel this season, right? 40-something games in, 11-day road trip, come back, lose more games than you think you're supposed to, drop a game in Orlando, like it starts the domino. And I think it was mentally exhausting but also physically exhausting from the season. but we had conversations and I think the message is the same

like when everything is going well I don't judge people on that I judge them by how they act when everything is going wrong like when everything is hitting the fan that's true true testimony that's the true character that's a true character traits

of what you really what you really made of and I think this is great for us I was like when we was winning games they was like oh this is this championship contenders and I was like man six months ago y'all said we barely they're going to finish over 500.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like, y'all are victims of the moment. I said, we can't be victims of the moment. This is a season. The season has ebbs and flows, good days, bad days, losing streets, winning streaks, just as quick as we win seven, we lose seven. So you got to stay locked in on the goal,

stay locked in on the task of each day, just getting better, stacking you good days. Some days you've got to rest. Some days you've got to chill. Some days we've got to celebrate our victories, right? Privately. Absolutely. We're at that stage now where we've dropped a couple games,

but now we understand like, all right, B.I's back, Naji's back, Z's getting closer. Like, we just lost our rook dice into an injury, but it'll be back soon. It's like, we're going to be whole and we need to be home. Right now we just stay afloat. Stay afloat. Get a home seat and we go figure it out.

We're healthy and we got one out there. We got 14 out there. We got three out there. I like our chances, you know what I'm saying? So it's just like, let's just learn from this season, right? Everybody adjust to new roles. You used to playing outside your role, and then you get back used to playing your role.

And when we come together collectively, we're going to be fine. But you got to remember what this felt like because losing, losing can continue to see in and you start to have a loser's mentality. And we can't have that. Like, it's hard to win an NBA. And when you start falling in the wins, like you think it's normal. It's not. It's really hard.

Like, it's hard to close the team out. It's hard to be up for the entire game and close them out down the stretch. Like, it takes real talent and execution and focus. And now I think we're getting to that point where it's all coming together, even though we lost that game the other night against the Nuggets by one point. I think I missed the game winner. I miss the game winning against the heat. And then we come back, you know, we're up against Minnesota.

They're going like a 17 to 2 run in a quarter. And we end up coming back and losing my 4 or 5. I think it's shown them. It's like, look, like that line of error is very thin. Like, God, that margin of victory is very thin. You've got to lock in. That's a fact. I think that's something that we've been figuring out this season as well.

It's like, you know, every year it's a different team, man. You know, yes, we still have that first five. six guys that won a championship last year that's won several championships or seven guys. But then we got a bunch of guys who haven't really played much, who we haven't really played much together and also youth. And the mistakes that you make as a young team, it takes a while to grow through those. And I feel like right now y'all are starting to see a little bit of that.

Is that accurate? Yeah, I think we're starting to see. see it for sure. And I wouldn't even compare it to the, we don't got the championship DNA, right? But we got a little taste of success, not on that level, a small taste, turning the table, went into playing games, taking the sun. So I think it should have been seven games. We should have win seven games and had to play a seven game series on their court. But we got a taste of success, right? And then we got to see, like, start the season off. We beat Brooklyn in Brooklyn by like 20. And we start playing well as a whole. And we look at like, we could really play

with some of the best teams in the league. And you started to get a taste of what's successful, it looks like, and then you get humble. And it's like, okay, like, we got a chance to be really good, but we got to do these things consistently. And like you said before, we can't have small mistakes linger, right? Like, if you're supposed to be low man, you've got to be the low man with Anthony Edwards coming down the lane because if you get there too late,

you're getting punched on, right? Absolutely. And if you don't meet a good passing role man early, he's going to pick you apart. Joker. You got a medium early or he going to hit the lob to Aaron Gordon or he going throw it right to the corner and it's a three. And if you get put in a series against these teams, the whole point of a series is to figure out the weakness and exploit it. And it's like if you're not going to lock in the way you're supposed to lock in regular season where you just playing a team on a random Tuesday, then how I'm going to trust you to lock in, you know,

in a playoff series when, you know, we might have to go back to Phoenix and we got nights off in Scottsdale. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, y'all got to have this level of focus and be willing to sacrifice at a different level. And that doesn't just mean going out or not going out because that's not even what I'm talking about. You got to be willing to sacrifice and say, today I'm not going to work out because I'm playing more minutes than I ever played before in my career and I don't want my body to be hurt tomorrow. So I'm just going to shoot free throws. Or I'm really focusing on film and I'm going to get better at film today. And I think that's the next step that we've got to take from a growth standpoint. And I think we're getting there. Absolutely. I respect that.

Speaking of basketball, you recently, well, last, what, year and a half now, you became the president of the Players Association. Number one, how has it been sitting in that role? And number two, how long do you plan on staying in that role? That's the two-first. I don't know how long I plan on staying in this role. I'm unsure. Obviously, I like to mold whoever is going to be next to kind of spend some time with them and allow them to kind of understand how it works,

similar to how the NBA has done things with the deputy commissioner. I think that's important that your change of hand should be smooth and they should be well equipped. I think I want to get to that point first before I do that. So I don't know what the timeline is on that. But the first part of your question is it's been an honor to serve, you know, on behalf of the players. There's been some great moments and some not so great moments,

obviously when you're in a position of power and have to make decisions. Your decisions are for the betterment of the group, but the group isn't always going to be happy, right? in having to deal with COVID, having to deal with a lot of different situations that we've had to deal with, hasn't been ideal, but it's been a lot of tough learning moments that I've enjoyed going through. I've enjoyed the dialogue, the conversation that I have to have on behalf of the players and alongside the NBA. I think we're working on developing more of a partnership, more of a collaboration that's group decision-making. I think the dialogue has improved tremendously since my rookie year or now, 10 years ago.

and I think obviously we're in CBA talks going through negotiations now, but we're in a much better state than I would say a lot of other major sports in terms of how we speak to each other in terms of relationships a lot of players have with Adam, a lot of relationships the players have with Mark Tatum. I think we're in a much, much better space, and I think Tamika's done a fantastic job of organization and allowing us to continue to make strides on the great work that Michelle has done. I think Michelle was incredible, by the way.

I thought she did an amazing job. And, you know, and stepping in that role, I think CP did a really good job in the role of a president for, I think, man, what was he the president for, like eight years or something like that? A long time. Yeah, he did it. He did two bids. And I thought he did a really good job.

But there's a topic that never comes. up in discussions. And I quite frankly don't understand it. So I want to ask you about it, which is, the player is not being able to participate in ownership with these teams. Like, you see the valuation

these teams. And you can look at the Warriors first. Take the Warriors, for example, $7 billion valuation. When the ownership group bought this team in 2011, which was a year before, I was drafted,

Clay's first year, Steph's 30, year. It's a $500 million team. It's now $7 billion. Players aren't allowed to participate at all. Not say, not now. You can't structure something to be part on or after or anything. What do you make of that conversation and players not being able to participate in ownership and it also never really coming up? Yeah, I will say that it's coming up. The conversations have been occurring. I was elected in this role in 2020, during COVID, maybe August, 2020 or 2020. We're in 2023.

So I'm going on two years, I think. So these are things that I think about constantly as a person who believes in equity and empowerment and ownership and ways to create generation of wealth, but also the fact that a lot of these teams are owned by funds or a portion of it is owned by funds. I think where it's indirectly ownership. I think those are all discussions that we're currently having. I think it's more so like you talked about how do you structure it. Like for instance, this Steph Curry situation, right? I don't know, like the valuation of what it was compared to what it is now based on him being there and all that stuff is crazy.

And I think, you know, you guys, your owner would argue that, you know, he's paid well and he is paid well. He's paid extremely well and he performs and he does his job. but a lot of that success off the court for the Warriors is due to him. Merchandise sales, those restaurants that I got around that arena. I think y'all have your own media. Now, if I'm not mistaken, they're basically chronicling this season for y'all behind closed doors. I think wake up might be the owner of the media company. I was like, there's a lot of ways to generate income that you guys aren't able to take part in.

And we're not able to take part in as a union. And I think for us, it's about strategically trying to figure out what that looks like. And we're not trying to take advantage of anybody. We're just trying to be able to figure out what's considered a fair share. And how does that share paid out in the event that Steph Curry does have enough money, right, to potentially partake in an ownership play. What does that look like for him? And can he do it?

Like you talked about before, can you do it down the road? Like, what does that look like strategically if you structure it? And I think I don't have the answer. Obviously, if I did, then it would be done. already, but just the dialogue is what's important because you need to understand both sides issues and why both sides feel like change is necessary. And I think for us, as players, that's the next step for us. Like Michael Jordan being the only player to own a team and arguably the greatest player of all time, if not the greatest, it's kind of a problem because there's plenty

of other athletes from other sports, there's plenty of other African Americans, minorities, who have money, but they don't have the access. They don't have the power, mainly because many of these organizations and franchises are owned and they're passed down from generation to generation. So if we don't get one person of color in one of these positions, how do we get the next person of color in the position? I mean, I think not to just bring race into it in general, but for us as black athletes, over 80% of the league, like, that's important.

We make a lot of money and we want to figure out ways to make money for our kids and the generations that come after us, especially if we're helping boost these franchises the way Steph Curry is boosting a franchise. Yeah, no, definitely. Like you said, I think Joe has, he's paid a lot of money. Like there's ownership group they've paid. And so you respect that. But then I'll look at it and say, yes, they have paid.

But they're also able to cover that. They're also able to cover those expenses from revenue. They're not covering those expenses by going to take a loan out against that $7 billion valuation as if it's a threat. No, that's still just sitting there. And you're able to cover salaries and X, Y, and Z. the revenue. And so there's still that long-term play that you're just not able to participate in it. And I'll take it even a step further. If an owner is in an investment and, you know, they're either leading the investment or they're high up on the cap table, we can't invest in that same

investment. And so that right there already essentially limits the great investments that you can take part in because they're going to get access to the best investments. Why? Well, number one, a lot of them these days come from tech backgrounds, venture backgrounds, etc. But also number two, if I am a CEO of a company and if I'm a CEO of a company and I want to do something with the Warriors or I want to something, I'm going to make, I'm going to open my round up to Joe Leco. I'm going to open my round up to Peter Guber. Why? For the relationship. And so then that limits what players can do as well. And so are we making any progress as far as that rule? Like I think that's an old rule that was put in way back in the day. And it's like one of those things where it's just lazy to leave it there because the times have changed. And players are making more money to where you can sit on those same cap tables that owner sits on. Is that something that we're making progress in? Because I think that's something that definitely needs to go.

I'm definitely of the business mindset, as you can attest to, that I think it's important that we have the right exposure, right? You know, one of the things we've seen historically is that, you know, athletes and people who have money but not necessarily the right education behind it, invest in the wrong things. And I think for us, it's not just about deal vetting. It's about making sure that you have the right deal flow, constructive, productive deal flow. And by potentially being able to invest alongside owners, it gives you. another layer of due diligence that we may not always have or may not always use. And I think that's an important part of the structure that we're working towards is it's not just about investing alongside your owner. It's about them kind of explaining deals to you,

why this is a good deal, why this is not a good deal, the stage of the deal. Capital calls. What's a capital call? How often they're going to come back? What serious is this? Is this a safe round? Do I get a discount? What's my discount? You know what I mean? I think being able to explain the lingo, similar to how we would explain a play. One of the things I think is most fascinating about other sports is when I watch a football player break down a play. I played football, but I can't speak to football the way that a professional athlete can when they break down a play. I think that's so great. But I think we have that same mindset when it comes to finance and be able to speak to lingo with somebody else who can empower us and encourage us and teach us.

And I think we're working towards a lot of stuff that I can't really speak to because I'm president of the PA. But the conversation and dialogue is going strong. it's it's definitely business focused you know I knew about the the basketball Africa League you know when it was coming out and I tried to invest in that obviously I wasn't allowed and that's not even the NBA and I couldn't invest in that and partake in the upside the upside so it's like there's a lot of issues that I have personally as a as a player and personally on behalf of all the players that we're trying to resolve and I think we will be able to resolve because

like you said before it just makes sense right it just makes sense for us to be able to partake in some of the upside, be able to invest in things that are have a higher likelihood of being successful. Like we should want our players too. And the owners, obviously, and the governors, they definitely want their players to be a part of it. But they're just trying to figure out structurally what that will look like going forward. Absolutely.

And like I said, I think you're doing an incredible job as the president. I appreciate that. So, you know, as a player, I thank you because it's a very, um, for a very, um, forgiving job. It's a thankless job, and I tell CPA all the time. This is a very thankless job, and I'm thankful for your eight years in service because now I know what you went through. I didn't understand it before.

Now I truly know. And on another note, who's your team rep? Kavanaugh-Lone. Make sure Kavanaugh is at Utah for at least, tell me just at least a day. I need them for a day. Okay. Yeah, we need a rep from the Warriors there. Please tell him to fly hotel.

whatever he needs, dinner on me. If you want it, dinner in Park City, I don't care. I need them there. I'll definitely let him know. And like I said, a man who were many hats, I'm going to get you out of here. I know a little man probably getting up in a minute, and you've got to eat.

You're on Central Times, so I appreciate you coming on. But before you get out of here, I just wanted to ask you about media. Like, I remember when you first started doing media and you came to the NBA finals. We actually had a conversation. You remember the conversation. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And we were, you were covering the NBA finals. And I was like, hey, CJ, like, that's cool, that's dope. But it's a respecting that you got to give to. You sitting here talking to players about the finals, you haven't, you haven't quite gotten to the level that you need to get to to have those conversations. And he was like, oh, this is something I want to do. And then you kind of step back a little bit.

Became C.J. McCullum, respected around the league where everybody respected and then got back into it. But what's been your mindset from near to where you are now in the media aspects of things? Yeah, I think my understanding of media has definitely shifted, have been involved, like you said before. And it's funny because, you know, I broke my foot in my rookie year and I got pitched a lot of stuff. And I had to decline a lot of it because I was becoming more known as a journalist than I was as an NBA player. And I thought, like, that's a bad look. And the fact that I had to debate that is crazy, right?

in society in which I'm doing things that better myself. I'm actually using my degree. I enjoy this craft. I get paid for it. And it gives fans a different side. I mean, I had to question whether or not I should be doing it because I was hurt and I couldn't play my sport. And I thought the perception would be that I'm not taking my craft seriously,

even though I take my craft more seriously than 99% of this league as I do all these other things. Right. So I took a step back, like you said before. And even when I was doing the finals and stuff like that, I was only covering certain stuff that I felt like I wanted to be a part of from an exposure standpoint, but also, to be honest, I wanted to know what it was like to be in the finals. Like, I had never played in it. I never watched it as a kid. And I wanted to see what it was like to like the vibe, the aura,

like what goes into it. And obviously, playing and covering it is different. But, I mean, it's a shame to say it. I've covered more finals than I've been in, right? Like, I've been covering finals for years through ESPN and other different partnerships. But I think what I've learned most is that it's okay to not know everything about the sport that you play and it's okay to have an opinion on things and to be

quite frank in your judgment and the way you assess the game but what I've tried to do as a player is I never attack players right like you'll see me go on first take like I stand up for whoever I'm standing up for Katie I'm standing up for Kai whatever because I know them know them personally I know how they work

I know how they think about the game of basketball I know what it means to them and I can be I can be critical, right, of, let's say, I'm used Tadam, for example, because I know Jason, right? Jason has some turnovers in the finals. I can say, like, look, Jason had a lot of turnovers in the night way or whatever, whatever, but I'm not going to say he played poorly or that he wasn't ready to play because I know him. I know how he prepares. I know how much this means to him.

And I think far too often, one of the things I don't like about sports is how players will play this game, they'll retire and they'll go talk about it. And they'll talk about it in a way that's demoralized into the player. And I don't like to do that. I hate that. I hate to make it more than what it is. I like to be quite frank. Like, if he can't shoot, he know he can't shoot, right?

Like, we know who can shoot in league who can't shoot. I'll talk about a lot, whatever, whatever. Like, I'll say in a way that's like, motherfucker can't shoot, right? But I'm not going to go out to say that. But I think when you do it that way, you're handling it as a professional. These are my peers, right? I still got to see these guys on a day basis.

I know what the game means to them. But we all know what our weaknesses are, right? Like, we all know what they are. I think there's a way to criticize the game and critique a player in a way in which you're educating the fan. You're pointing out facts, but you're not bashing. You're talking about facts of the matter. Like, I said it on my podcast beginning of the season. Like, I was shooting the ball very poorly, the worst I've shot the ball in my entire career.

I didn't talk about how, you know, I had messed up my finger on my index finger and my middle, my middle finger on my shooting hand. But I didn't make excuses. I just said, I'm shooting the ball the worst I've ever shot in my career. And if somebody want to talk about me on TV, they would be able to say that, frankly, but it wouldn't be because I wasn't prepared and I wasn't working hard because shit just wasn't going in. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's one of the things I've learned about the sport and one of the approaches I've tried to take. And I know there's no right answer for everything that I do.

And some people might not be mad. Like, I had the Boston Celtics beating y'all. And I know you personally. But what I wasn't going to do is talk about you behind your back and I tell you to your face. So if I'm going to go on TV and talk about how I think the word is going to lose and why, I'm going to tell you when I see you like, I did. say that. I think y'all are going to lose. And when you win, you're supposed to say, like, what you said to me. Like, that's what you're supposed to do. Because as you know, I always keep it

real. And I love sports. I love talking about sports. I love the way it's play. I love the way guys prepare. I think it's art. And for me to be able to get compensated to do stuff I would do for free anyway, I think it's a blessing. And to be able to use my degree, right, to go to school, major journalism, minor, mass comm, to cover Lehigh sports. Like, I cover, field hockey. I cover tennis championships. I cover a tracking field football. Name a sport. That's not men's basketball. I covered it to be able to do it now. It's like it's a blessing, honor, and privilege. And I just want people to know it because they don't understand like they see me work for ESPN. They see me doing this stuff. And then like, oh, he's just doing this because he hoop.

It's like, no, I did this to get a degree. Like I got accredited hours. I did an internship unpaid. It's like a lot of these journalists. I just got to the top a little bit faster because I'm an expert that I play. But I think it's cool that I'm in this spot. And I think it's cool to other players like yourself are doing it because it's fun. But I think the fan appreciates our knowledge of the game and the way we can kind of reiterate that to them. No, I definitely agree with you, you know, in a sense, it's, you know, what you're saying, like how, like, it's baffling to me how former players get up there at times and talk about

players. It's almost like, like, bro, you are one of us and you get up there and talk. Like, you weren't that same player in the locker room that hated what someone was talking about you like that, that talking. that talked about those very people that were talking about you or us like that when you were sitting in the locker room and now you go on TV and do that same thing. Like, to me, it says a couple things when people analyze or lack thereof. One, you're just lazy. Like, you're taking an easy way out and it's very easy to just go bash somebody.

Like, because you just say reckless shit and you get, you know, nowadays people are chasing click. and, you know, they're chasing the online traffic. And so I think, number one, it's just lazy. But number two, I don't think people are, like, these people are very capable of analyzing the game of basketball. Like, you know, some of these guys that go up there and they were players, wasn't, you weren't a smart player. Like, it wasn't like you benefited off really knowing the game of basketball.

And so you go up there and, like, do lazy, to me, lazy analyzing because you can't break down the X's and O's. You can't break down C.J's mindset or why C.J. would rather bring this guy into the pick and roll and not that guy. Although in your mind, that guy's a better defender. No, but I like the way he guards this pick and rolling, so I'm trying to get to this.

You know, I don't think they're capable of doing that. And to me, I never want to see anyone lose their job, like, or lose their livelihood. but a part, but one of my goals in this is to make that type of shit extinct. And if that means you lose your, if that means you're going to lose your job, but then you better get to learn and how to analyze and study and to build a relationship. Because I think, like, that stuff is getting tired in our game, man. Like, nobody want to hear you just go bash somebody and you really can't even break down why.

And so I think that's important for us moving forward in this craft. And like I said, that's one of my motivations in this, is to make that style of reporting, analyzing journalism, is to make it extinct. Because there is a way, like you said, there's a way of being very critical and not bashing someone. Like, these people start, these people have started bashing, like,

people as human beings. Like, because of how you play the game of basketball, that's insane to me. Like, it never used to be that way. Or was it? I don't think so. I think now it's gotten worse because we see it everywhere. Like, you got to Twitter, you got to Instagram.

Like, it's instantly in our phones, right? It's instantly accessible. And now we see it more often. And it's just like the Russell Westbrook situation. That stuff used to piss me off because we don't like Russ the way he plays. Just say you don't like the way he plays. But to talk about him as a person is just disrespectful because I know Russ. Russ is a good dude.

Russ. You could beat his team. And he'll take a picture with your grandma after the game. There's not a lot of guys that will do that. Not a lot of guys that will stop and take a picture after a loss or whatever the case may be. Like take a picture of my little cousin. That's a good human being. He does things the right way off the court.

Good father, good husband, all those things. So when people attack like the character, like if you don't like the way he played, just say that. Just say that. You don't like the way they play and say why you don't like the way they play and throw some stats out there. But when they start challenging people's character and saying they're not a good teammate or whatever, it's like, how do you know what a good teammate looks like? if you're not in that locker room.

Did you ask his teammates? Did his teammates say he wasn't good teammate? Do you got a source that's like out there? That's the stuff that I didn't. I didn't like that I've seen historically. But outside of that, like I respect the craft. And I think, you know, the same way I approach basketball, right? Like, you're going to go on TV.

Like, you need to be prepared. Like, do your work. Do your work and understand what you're breaking down. And I think that's what was cool about covering the finals is because, like, I had played against y'all. I guard his stuff. I'm chasing Clay. I'm getting hit by screens from you.

Like, I know what it's like. So when they say, like, I don't understand how he's getting open. It's like, no, these are some of the best players in the world. They're trying to stop this. It's just hard to because there's so many reads. There's so many ways in which the game flows. Hit the pitch post. And they're like, well, why is he on the top side?

And it's like, well, maybe that's the coverage. Maybe he's supposed to be on the top side. Maybe you're supposed to force him down. Maybe you don't want Steph shooting threes. And you would rather him finish around the basket. It's like, why are they switching? It's like, well, you can sit and drop it if you want to. you're going to eat that up.

Oh, you go on hard hedge with a seven-footer and think that they're going to not turn the corner. It's like people don't really think the game. And it's like, that's why I was like, if I'm going to do this, like, I'm going to go on TV and talk about it. But I only want to talk about the stuff that I know. And it's like I don't want to talk about, like I want to break down the game and get out of there.

Absolutely. That's my approach. Man, before we get out of here, like I said, I know you got to go. My teammate, your teammate, just named All-Star Stars, Steph. It's an obvious one. Zion, just named an All-Star Star Star. How does that make you feel?

Like, how big is that for him? How big is that for New Orleans? How big is that for your organization? That's really, really dope, man. I'm excited about it. I'm happy for him. I know the work that he put in to overcome what he went through last year. And I'm not just talking about the physical aspects of it.

I'm talking about the mental aspects of the injury and the way people kind of critiqued him and scrutinized him. I'm happy for the progress. our team is making it in the city, and I think it'll be great for him. Hopefully he's healthy, you know, ASAP and back out here with us. But I'm happy he's going to be representing us in New Orleans for sure. Man, it's a blessing to be his teammate. And this is a gamer, man.

He's a gamer. Shows up any hoops, gamer. That's dope, man. CJ, my brother, I appreciate you for coming on. Mr. President himself, looking forward to coming back on your pie whenever we got time to do it, bro. But thank you so much to come. on the Draymond Greeny show, incredible interview, your insight on the Players Association and being the president, your insight on media, and then also just sharing your story.

Like, for me, as an under, you're an underdog, man. And for me, as an underdog myself, I can always respect and appreciate hearing that journey. So thank you for coming on and sharing it with myself, with our listeners and subscribers. See you soon, bro. Thanks for everything, my dog. Yes, sir. I appreciate you having me on. I tap in about my podcast.

too.