The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show - Dray's TNT Deal, All-Star Starters + a Charles Oakley Interview

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

To start episode 11 of ‘The Draymond Green Show’ Draymond answers the big question that fans have been asking since the news broke: how does his TNT deal work considering he’s still an active player? Then he explains why he’s so happy that Andrew Wiggins was named an All-Star starter, why Juan Toscano-Anderson doing the dunk contest is a great move, and his Super Bowl prediction. Then Charles Oakley joins the show to discuss his new book, his experience meeting a young Michael Jordan, kicking Dennis Rodman out of a steakhouse, and much more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Come seek the Royal Caribbean. Visit Royal Caribbean.com to learn more. Why is it that the oldest child grows up with the strict rules, but the younger ones get away with everything? Back then, it felt like your parents are playing favorites, right? But you know who doesn't play favorites? AT&T. They believe that everyone should get the same treatment.

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He's Uncle Oak to me. But Charles Oakley, to you. we all know him, The Enforcer. He also has a book that released today, actually, titled The Last Enforcer, which is embodying who he is. And not only who he was as a basketball player, Uncle Oak is still an enforcer. Like, that's never changing.

But obviously, you're talking raw, uncut stories about his time in the NBA, about things that happen on the court, off the court, and these are untold truths that you don't really get the opportunity to hear often because most guys just aren't comfortable doing that. Most guys just aren't comfortable ruffling any feathers, you know, but Uncle Oaks a little different. And, you know, he has a book out, the last enforcer,

make sure everybody check that out. We will be getting into the book and some of the things that he's speaking of in the book on the interview. So I'm looking forward to that. But as you know, we like to go around the association a little bit. And then, you know, we also like to go around other leagues as well. But just for starters, I know news broke that I had signed a deal with TNT and I am a part of the T&T team.

And what does that mean and what does that look like for me? I know everybody's been wondering just due to I'm still playing. I'm still playing at a high level. So what does that actually mean? I know some warrior fans freaked out a little bit. Let me get this out there now. I am not about to retire. I still think I have a lot left to give in this body.

I think I still have some more things that I want to accomplish. One of those being a championship, you know, obviously one of those being another defensive player at a year, All-Star. I still got a bunch of things I want to accomplish as a basketball player. so I am not retiring from basketball. Let's get that out there right away, just to clear that up. But what the TNT deal is, number one, just being a part of the family, most importantly. You know, you've seen me on there over the course of the last couple years,

starting with the bubble due to my team not being in the bubble, had an opportunity to go on and sit up there with the guys. And, well, number one, and it all started for me and going on the arena with the great host, Kerry Champion, who was incredible, who a lot like Ernie Johnson just kind of walked me to things that I wanted and needed to say. She was incredible. So that's kind of where it started for me with T&T. And then obviously with Charles Barkley and Dway, two Hall of Famers,

Legends, Dway is not a Hall of Famer yet, but it's only a matter of time. We just need kind of like the Warriors championships used to be. You just kind of need that date on the calendar to get there. And then, boom, it happened. So that's kind of DeWay it as a Hall of Famer. So two Hall of Famers, Kerry Champion, who will be a Hall of Fame journalist or analysts or, you know,

whatever way you want to go with it, she's incredible. So having the opportunity to share the stage with those three and do the – and we were doing the arena. And obviously at that time, we were highlighting things that was going on in America. in America around the world. And that was just kind of my first crack at it. And it's like, oh, man, like this is pretty fun. I enjoy this.

I like this. And then I, you know, we did that throughout the week. And then I had an opportunity also to go on inside the NBA. And for me, that was incredible. You know, number one, we always hear about Studio J, you know, and Studio J, all of these things. And it's kind of taken on a life of its own, which I think is incredible. So when I first arrived at Turner Studios, and that may not be the correct name,

but cut me a little slack there. But when I first arrived at the studio, the first thing I asked is, where's Studio J? Like, I want to see Studio J. Like, this place is historic. Like these, it's Emmys coming out of there. Like, it's greatness spewing out of there. I want to see Studio J. So they, it's right in front as soon as I walked in. So I'm like, oh, man, this is incredible. And then obviously, we didn't give Studio J stage. We went to another stage and I kind of had to work my way to Studio J, which was great. I'm all for putting the work in.

But just having those opportunities to showcase who I am, what I stand for, how I speak, how I fit in, but most importantly for me was having that opportunity to learn. And, you know, the thing, there's just things that you don't realize as a player. You know, I've always heard, like, you're a great interview, you're a great interview. you're going to be good at TV because you're a great interview.

And the reality is it does not necessarily mean that because there's so many other things that goes into doing that job that you don't even realize. You know, I want to speak, and I think I spoke about this before, but the mistake I made when doing the arena, we were interviewing Masay Ujuri from Toronto Raptors, and I completely butchered my question. And in part due to the producer in my ear,

telling me you got 10 seconds left to get your question out. You know, you got 10 seconds to get your question out because you have to give him enough time to talk. We have to get to the commercial break. And so he's telling me in my ear, I got 10 seconds. And now I'm trying to frame that question the right way with 10 seconds. You know, and so I asked Messiah, I said they have put Black Lives Matter on their bus. And when they put Black Lives Matter on their bus,

they're driving through the streets of Orlando with a Black Lives Matter bus, the team from Toronto. And now when all of this had happened, all of these things started to happen. And one of the reasons we actually did the arena, that was prime George Floyd just being murdered. God rest his soul, still sending my thoughts and prayers to the family as just because it's been a year or year and a half or whatever it's been, that pain don't go away. You know, so I still send my love to them. but I asked him because a real push for change came when we saw that. And that was like, you know, some people have been pushing for change for years.

Obviously us as an African American culture, but not just of the African American culture, but been pushing for change for years. And then once we saw that, that's when you just felt like so many people came on board and was like, oh, yeah, I see what they're talking about. definitely needs to be changed, and so on and so forth. So what I was intending to act him was, there's 29 other teams in the NBA, you being the one that's out of the country,

from an event that just really sparked this push for change that happened in America. None of these other 29 teams decided to put Black Lives Matter on their bus. But you did, the one team that is, out of the country and was not in the country that really sparked that movement. And of course, people like, you idiot, their black lives matter everywhere. This, that and the other. I'm not saying black lives doesn't matter everywhere.

I'm specifically asking about this because there was one particular incident that happened in America that really sparked and pushed, or sparked this push for change. And I caught a lot of flag for that, but it was the best thing to have. happened to me because it was an incredible learning experience. And so that was kind of the beginning for me. And then, you know, I've gone on to do other things with the TNT team. And it just felt like home for me. You know, it felt like the place that I wanted to be. It felt like a family. You know, one of the main reasons I went to Michigan State. When it came down to my final three schools, it came down to Michigan State, Michigan in Indiana. And I was actually going to go to

Michigan. And they invited me up and all of that stuff. But it just didn't feel like a family to me. And Michigan State felt like a family. And that's why I chose to go to Michigan State. Turner and the T&T team, it just feels like a family to me. Like everyone's family. I mean, even, you know, you're talking other analysts, you know, everyone who's a part of that family reaching out to me when I sound like you're a part of a family. Welcome. This is exciting. and it's super dope. Like, you just don't get that energy from everywhere. And I know how important that is to success.

Everywhere I've gone, the Golden State Warriors, like, we all operate as family. Like, we're all one. You know, we're all pushing for the same goal. We take care of each other. That's important to success. At least it's always been important to success for me and my life. And so I have a huge appreciation for that.

And I'm extremely thankful for the Turner team. Obviously, starting at top with Jeff Zucker, Lenny, Craig, Tara. They've been incredible to me. And so it was a no-brainer for me once they made the offer. Like, absolutely. I'd love to be officially a part of their family. And so that's kind of that. How will it work out?

I'll do things when I can. We're going to win a championship this year. But say, for instance, in a year that we don't win the finals, And, you know, there's an early exit because those do happen. You know, I'll go to work and I'll possibly be on your TV screen and sharing some of my thoughts on the games, you know, some things that I think a team can do better, you know, all of those things. So that's kind of how it will work.

It's not like I'm going to be flying from San Francisco to Atlanta with one day off in between games to go to studio. Like, no, but there will be. definitely be a bunch of time that I'll have and I can go on and you know pretty much fulfill my duties and that's what I'm looking forward to

I absolutely love doing it so it's a no-brainer for me. I am extremely excited about Andrew Wiggins being named an all-star starter like you're talking a guy who was written off trade it he actually got traded as the number one

pick before he ever played a game he got traded in Summer League which is very unusual. So his career started off Rocky. His career started off like going through something that I've never been traded. Like I've never been through that. So here I am

10 years in and he starts his career off 10 days in with that. So that's already an adjustment. He goes to Minnesota which at that time wasn't a very good organization had been losing. You know it's obviously they've improved

now and new ownership group and all things but at that time wasn't a good organization and then he's left to figure things out on his own and you know he played well you know but not to the level of the number one pick and what most people want to see and so then he obviously gets traded to the warriors and it was kind of just like they didn't want them like they just gave him away the moment he got here I'm like oh man this guy, he competes, he defends. Like, he does things that I did not expect from him. And it was at that time where I'm like, oh, no, like, we really have something serious here. And now, now it's about teaching him how to play winning basketball because he hadn't done that for six years or whatever,

whatever that time was. It's about instilling that confidence back in him because somewhere along the way that's been snatched away. But if you can do those two things, this guy is number one, super talented. Number two, he can really help us win. And so that was the task. Now, you don't complete that task without him wanting to do those things

and him wanted to be that. And so he put the work in with his trainer, Chris Johnson, with the coaching staff here. He's put that work in, and you just, as a teammate, you try to assist and help where you can, most importantly, being with your play on the court. And so we're having a good year.

He's having an incredible year. But I want to point out one thing. What it shows. I'm not sure Wiggins is averaging more points this year than he's averaging the other year, especially since maybe his second or third year in the league. But what it shows you, and for young kids out there, how important winning is.

Like, winning is extremely important. And when you win, you get your view. differently. You get different recognition, you know, and so now here we have it. Andrew Wiggins is an all-star starter. Well deserved. I couldn't be happier for him. It's funny because the day all-star starters were announced, I had gave him like this little speech earlier that day like, hey man, start has come out today. I think you will be announced as a starter. But if not, you will be an all-star, so don't. And that wait till that following Thursday is long and it's tedious and you want it to happen, but no matter what,

if you're not named an all-star starter tonight, you're going to be an all-star, rest assured. I appreciate your work that you've done, but continue to grind, continue to do what you're doing for the team. But just know that weight, that week-long wait is long, and it goes by very slow. And we were just joking and laughing about it, but it was incredible to see him named an all-star star star star.

I'll tell you a funny story. Steph also is named an All-Star starter Hence the fact I just didn't say Congratulations to Steph For being an All-Star starter too And I did that purposely But I didn't do that purposely in our team group chat The moment they announced Wiggins

In All-Star Star Starter I hit the group chat like Wiggs Congratulations man that's incredible blah blah blah Other guys came in Wigs that's dope congratulations Steph's in this group chat It's our team group chat And Andre comes in, you know, the elder steaksman.

Andre comes in and he says, Hey, Steph, congratulations. Don't let these MFs act like this. What you're doing, not elite. That shit is elite. Congratulations, Steph. And I go back to the chat. I'm like, wow,

my 430. I truly apologize. I was about to congratulations. And it's funny because Steph had already started, wigs, congrats. I didn't think. anything of it.

Like, he made nothing of it. We're all excited for wigs. It's not that we're not excited for Steph. We are just more accustomed to Steph making, being an all-star starter, and we knew it was happening. And so I felt extremely bad about it. I spent, like, the rest of that day apologizing through text, and then I went to the gym the next day.

I saw him. I apologized again. Because I ran into Tyrese and Shia LaBchiaeuf. at a party for Grammys, Grammy Vanity Fair Party. And my wife and I, we were sitting there, we were talking to Tyrese.

She's in the acting business. And so it's always good to make those different connections. And Shia LaBevue came up. And he's like, what's up, man? Da-da-da-da-da. And he congratulated Tyrese on maybe his recent movie or the movie had gotten a new... Yeah, like maybe it's...

And Tyrese was like, thank you. Why you didn't call me and tell me that? And he's like, I don't know. Like, I don't know why I didn't call you and tell you that. And Tyrese's point that he made was, you know, we all get so caught up in what we're doing. We get so caught up in the successes that people has had. And getting caught up in those successes and seeing people have constant success,

we forget to congratulate them on. the successes that they are currently having. And the reality is it's wrong because that congratulations may be what pushes that guy that wants to have success or lady or woman or female to chase that success again. And also to feel appreciated because sometimes we all need to feel appreciated. And when he made that point, it really stuck with me. I was like, wow. And so like even today to the, like, I'll still text Drake, like when all 10 of his sons,

hit the billboard or nine out of ten like yo congratulations that's amazing like because i'm sure most people or i still text brine when brine do's like yo congrats because most people you you just you you almost become numb to the wins and it's so unfair because winning is hard to continue winning is even tougher and so it's so unfair to them and so i wanted to share that story about step but also in everybody who's listening, when you have people doing great things, congratulate them. It means a lot, regardless of how much success they've had.

It means a lot. It goes a long way. I, too, am a corporate of that and not doing it as much as it should be done, but I try to make sure I do that. So make sure you're doing it. And speaking of All-Star Weekend, we got my boy, Juan T. Juan, T. Juan, T. Juan, T.

in the dunk contest. And it's funny because a couple days ago, he was like, yo, should I do the done contest? I said they'll let you do it. He's like, yeah, I think I'm going to do it. I said, you'd be a fool not to do it because the stage doesn't get bigger than that. You know, the only way the stage gets bigger than that is the NBA finals. And there's no guarantee you'll ever play in the NBA finals.

Why not? Everybody's watching All-Star Week, and everybody's watching you. Even if you go bomb it. Like, I remember seeing some guys bomb the dunk contest. No one speaks on it. No one cares. You know why? Because no one ever talks about the person who loses.

They're only going to talk about the person who win in their dunks. Maybe you win, you know? You need to come up with three or four great dunks. Maybe a guy misses a dunk and it don't even take a hard dunk to win it. You know, like you just don't know. So why not put yourself on that stage? On the flip side, we have Andrew Wiggins who jumps out of the gym that won't do it,

and I talked to him about it, and kind of threw shade at him, and, you know, Wiggs is a young, old man. Like, ah, no, no, I, Detroit, my body ain't right for this. Like, nah, I can't. I should have been did it, though. You're right. I should have been did it, but my body's not right for that, man.

I'm like, Wiggs, come on, man. Like, I just watched you put your head above the top of the square, brother, like a few weeks ago. Come on, man, getting a dunk contest, but no chance Wiggs is doing it. Gary paid in a second. I talked to GP. Like, GP, why wouldn't you do the dunk contest?

Oh, man, you know, I just got the bounce in my regular dunks. GP, if you dunk or if you do something with Senior, that's a 40 or 50 or 50, whatever it is. So there's 150 right there. If Senior toss you a lob off the glass or something, that's a 50 right there. Maybe you do some with Steph Curry who's going to be there. That's a 50 right there. Now you need to come up with two months. more dunks that gets you good scores.

Do it, GP. Of course, GP want to do it. And then I text Kaminga, like, yo, you're a rookie. Why wouldn't you do the dunk contest? Again, talking to him about the stage. He's like, man, I don't do fancy dunks. I just, I can jump high, but I don't really got all the fancy dunks. And I'm like, do the dunk contest.

You can get a dunk coach to walk you through some dunks you can do and you don't even know you can do them. like, do the dunk contest. He didn't want to do it. So I hope those three guys listen to this episode, because I am pissed off that they didn't put themselves in that dunk contest. We could have four dubs in there. But nonetheless, man, good luck to Wantee.

I hope he can bring it home. I am extremely proud of him of even putting himself in that position. You know, that's just you. Like, there's no one that was going out there to do that with you. You're on the stage all by yourself. But he's earned that. He got it out the mud, straight from 95th Street in Oakland. Like 95th ad.

You know, he's put the work in to be in this position. I'm happy he's doing it. And I would be remiss if we didn't talk about Joe Burrow and Matthew Stafford and the Rams, or Joe Burrow and the Bengals and Matthew Stafford and the Rams in the Super Bowl in L.A. Number one, I think it's insane that it never had. And then two years in a row, we got the home team in the Super Bowl.

Absolutely mind-blowing. But it's incredible. See, it's great for the city of Los Angeles. It's great for the Kronky family. It's great for the Rams organization as a whole. So I'm looking forward to seeing it. Also looking forward to being there. But how about Joe Burrow and, like,

Joey Burrow is just unfazed by everything. Like, he's going out there, he's playing as if he's a 10-year vet. And just, like, going out there and unfazed. and leading his guys. Like, I mean, you watched that first half. He had no time to make decisions, but he made enough decisions and created enough plays with his legs

and extended enough plays with his legs to where they were only down 21 to 10 at halftime. And if you follow football, they were also down 11 points in week 17 when they played against the Chiefs. And it was kind of like deja vu all over again. But kudos to take. him and how he stayed the course and how he continued to lead his guys.

And Jamar Chase is a generational talent. Joey Burrow is great and he's incredible. But I do understand you are only as great as the guys next to you allow you to be. And Jamar Chase, what he's doing to opposing defenses that's opening up everything else. And then sure enough, he comes open after a while is incredible. Like that guy there, he's already in the conversation for the best ride receiver in the NFL, and he's in year one. So what they got going there in Cincinnati, I think, is incredible. Huge shout out to Matthew Stafford.

Obviously, I'm from the state of Michigan. I am a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, but I do like to see the Detroit Lions win, and that rarely happens. And so Matthew Stafford has caught a lot of heat over the years of just being a stat guy. Well, the first year he leaves the Lions and go to the Rams, all of a sudden. he's in the Super Bowl, and he's showing what he's capable of and how good of a player he is. So I'm very happy for Stafford. I'm looking forward to this game. I think it's going to be a great game.

I do have the Rams winning. I think the Rams will take it at home for the second year in a row, the home team taking the Super Bowl. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college.

football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-taped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it,

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. I personally, the Rams defense.

incredible. Like you're talking Jalen Ramsey at the corner. You got Aaron Donald and Vaughn Miller on the defensive line, controlling everything. Like it's going to be hard against that defense, but not only is their defense incredible, but they actually had an offense to match. Shout out to OBJ, the game he had. I think he had nine receptions for 113 yards or something. Everybody wrote him off. And I was happy he went to L.A. And the reason I was happy he went LA. I personally just think a guy like that needs to be in a big city. Like he thrived in New York. He thrives in those settings. You know, he, like, maybe that's what motivates him. Like, maybe that's what pushes him. And to see him go from New York and thrive to Cleveland, we all know my

relationship with Cleveland, so I don't even, I don't even need to go further into that, especially with Uncle Oak being for Cleveland. I'm going to leave that alone today. Um, and struggle, and then to L.A. does not miss a beat right back looking like the Odell we saw in New York. Some guys need those bright lights. Maybe the lights weren't bright enough for him in Cleveland. And that is okay. That's okay. Everybody want to down that man and talk about him. He thrives when the lights are on. And I'd much rather have a guy who thrive when the lights are on than a guy who thrives when they're off. he thrive when the lights are on so big up to Odell

man I'm happy to see him back playing at the level that he's playing at it's incredible to see and like I said as you know I was going to leave the city of Cleveland on because we're bringing on the last enforcer Uncle Oak Charles Oakley Imagine fighting climate change

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Not because of what he was as a basketball player, but more so what he means to me personally. Uncle Oak, Charles Oakley, the enforcer of the NBA. We all throw this enforcer around. We try to throw that tag on me. We throw that tag on other guys. The reality is this is the ultimate enforcer. This is who started that.

This is who made that what it is. Uncle Oak, welcome to the show, my brother. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm sorry about the other day we couldn't do it, but hey, it's the better day the book came out today. So we got a lot to talk about. Absolutely. Number one, congratulations on the book. That's such an incredible thing. It's one thing that I've always, I've always said I want to do at some point, but it takes a lot. And so can you talk to me about that process and how you got into one to actually do the book and then what was your process going through and actually completing it?

You know, this, you know, since I got the league, you know, you go to ups and down to find what you want to do. I did a lot of different things. And I always said, I want to do a book. And that was about 10 years ago. And then, you know, the pandemic and this and that, we got it in right in the middle of the pandemic, some kind of way. But it just wanted to show people something about me, my ears and out, 18 years on the court,

stuff I've done to help people. Just family growing up. I won't get people the real inside about me. There's been a lot of people talking about stirs. And the book is full of stirs. And you're going to go crazy when you start reading the book. If you haven't read the book yet, just a lot about me. It's like me and you talk before.

You can see this in the book. Frank Azola, you know, he wrote the book. They did a great job. And, you know, he was a beat writer when I played. So he really had inside school. so many. It was great combo. It's like two guys, two males, singers come together

and make them a song. That's how this book is. Absolutely. And getting deeper off into the book because I have checked out some of the things coming out. And for those of you that don't know, Uncle Oak, to me, Charles Oakley, to you, is recently just dropped

a book, The Last Enforcer. Well, actually came out today. So make sure you all get that. However you get your books, whether that's on Amazon, whether that's, you're listening to the audio books, however it is that you get your books, make sure you go out and buy that. We need that on the New York Times bestseller list, so let's make sure we get that there. But, and going deeper into the book, I think what I love most and why I'm excited to really get all the way through it is, you talked about what I love most. You talked about slapping the hell out of some guys.

So, you know, talk to me about that. And you actually- In this book, like I say, you know, you have some run-ins on the court, off the court. I kept a consistent. So, yeah, I did slap some guys. And in this book, you know, the details, you know, back in the early 80s when you came in the league, you know, people, they were trying to test you. So I had the man up and let them know. You can't pass my test because I'm going to let you know. But, yeah, I have some run-ins.

And some people, you know, they got smacked around a little bit. And in this book, you talk about Tyrone Hill holding you $20,000. And what did you do when he owed you $20,000, Uncle Oak? So, basically, you know, we was in Atlanta one week, one summer. And, you know, I know he played for Cleveland. You know, he went to school in Ohio. And, you know, just, I know this guy, he played in the league.

He wasn't going. So he was doing something. And I was in the same place. He was in the same place. He said, he lived the money. I lived the money. and one thing led to another one. He said when the seats started,

when he seemed to him, he'll give it to me. He didn't. It was training camp, season. It went away a whole year into the next playoff. And then people started wondering. In the middle of that story was, we went to Philly and, you know,

shoot around, then you come back for the game on 5, 30, quarter to 5. So I got to my locker in Philly and somebody had seen me some flowers. And I looked at the flowers and it said to Charles Oakwood, that.

out. So I told my name off it and put from Charles over to Tyrone Hill. So I gave the ball boy $100 to put in his locker. So he put in his locker. I said, give me a reaction once he come in the locker room. So the ball boy, I'm standing there when he came in the locker room. He said he walked in the

locker to turn the corner. He started smiling because he sees him flower in his locker, right? He said when he started reading the notes and he started coughing and told him he had no, he was under the weather, he went back home. What? Yes. True's turn.

Next time you go to Philly, ask the head of the trainer, the last guy got with the curling hair, I forgot his name, but he's still there. Wow. That's insane. So he didn't play that night? No, he didn't. No, he played sick. Wow.

There it is, the last in force, the running guys off the court, literally. I know, but obviously, you know, I wanted to start off with that just because I think it's interesting. And quite frankly, you can't slap the hell out of a guy nowadays in the NBA. You get thrown none in jail. Yeah, they'll get you two or three games back then. I mean, they did a lot of stuff, but like I said, the rules and change and you try to play clean. I mean, I don't think too many guys are really going to go there. So like I say, it's like a fight. You know who you fight, know who you fight against. So when they get to that now, it won't be in the court. It'll be somewhere in another place. So, yeah, it's a different.

face now, like you said. Guys don't, they list, it's no, you know, nobody going to get into on the court. You know, they might come in their face and walk away. That's about that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What do you think about the league today? Because I know a lot of guys get mad when guys like yourself, the guys who came before us, say the league is soft.

And the reality is, well, I would love to hear your opinion because I know I have my opinion on the league soft. And I don't quite get mad when that said. But a lot of guys do. What do you think, what do you make of that, of the league being soft today? I said, I sense a different time. They don't play the same. It's not a lot of body-on-body.

I think that you got to play what's going on. You know, the music change, NFL has changed. All, everything changes. It's 20 years later. And everything's going to keep on changing. You know, it might come back to big guys in the post. You go through the post, in and out. But right now, it's a three-point shooting game.

It's a transition game. So I think the guys should be able to play longer because it's not that much contact. But I think that you got to take care of your body no matter when you play, whatever you still have to take care of your body. So I think it's, hey, it's the young guys' time, you know, let them play. I mean, people still coming to watch.

People still, you know, the numbers are going up. So somebody watching. Absolutely. You know, I think one interesting thing for me and what I look at, you know, like we talked about the last enforcer, but enforcers. And I think my two top enforcers ever happen to come from the same school. And that's you and Ben Wallace, who's also, you know, like Big Brother to me kind of took me

under his wing and coming up in Michigan. What was you and Ben's relationship like? Because I know he came after you, but does y'all have a relationship coming out with him coming through Virginia Union and you going through Virginia Union as well? Number one, I'm the one I'm the one who had camp in Alabama. My aunt and my sister asked me to have a camp. And a bed came to my camp.

You know, he was like 30 miles away. And the camp was only $25. And, you know, down south, there's a lot of people, low-income families. And I was, then the first year, I was charging $25. It was like 150 kids, maybe only about 40 kids could pay. So after that, I cut out, I just made it free. for the rest of the time.

So Ben came and he said he was going, you know, he was senior, you know, he was going to go to Arbor, to LSU, some type of way. He ended up going to, we took him to Tri-C in Cleveland, community college for a year. My friend Jeff Warren, he was my assistant with my camp because he came down with Cleveland with me because he had family Alabama too. But he came to Tri-C for a year. And after that, he went to Virginia Union. Jeff, you know, Jeff was the coach at Tri-C,

and I told Jeff I would take care if you get him up there. So he took Ben, Tri-C, and he went for a whole year. He just got to my mother's house. I just gave him clothes. He went to the Virginia Union. Same thing. But when he got the union, he found himself. And, you know, he was undersized.

He didn't get drafts. He was a free agent. He just kept working. That's one thing about, you know, people in the South, they work hard. And they don't let nothing get in their way. I guess he's seen that he might get a chance to go overseas. And then he went overseas. He came back to Boston, then he went to Washington.

The next thing you go, Atlanta, end up in Detroit. And, you know, he put a lot of work in. And he just got put in the Hall of Fame. Did great for itself. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we're kind of working backwards here in your life. And obviously starting with the book and, you know, talking through college.

But I also want to get into some of your plan. career. Obviously, that was being drafted the ninth overall pick by the Chicago Bulls, which means you then cross over with a very young Michael Jordan. What was your first impressions of Michael Jordan at that time when you first saw him? Obviously, we know what he became. What was your thoughts then? You know, coming from a history of black college and getting drafted in top 10, like you said, my eye was just, hey, come in, work, work, work. You know, and then when I got a chance to meet him, we was playing pickup, and it was August right before training camp.

You know, guys come in early, whatever. And, you know, he was always about business. And I was, like I said, they are doing my craft and working on my game and showing them I wanted to be there. And some type of way training camp started, we just seem to get closer and closer. And the next thing you know, you know, we started just hanging, hanging. He took me the All-Star and Dallas,

he took me on his wings. and we've been tight ever since. And you look at the book, you know, he did the forward. You know, so, hey, we still jiggling. Absolutely, which is incredible. Not many people can say they get a forward from Michael Jordan, man. That's insane. Yeah, that's like winning a Grammy and me,

winning a award, an Emmy or something. So, hey, it's good to have a friend like that. And I know you got a lot of them. I know when you do write your book, you can have a great person through the forward. I already know. You're in good space with a lot of good players. Thank you.

I appreciate that. And I said we're working backwards, and I skipped over something I actually wanted to ask about. And the reason I want to ask this, I was actually very outspoken about one person in particular, and that was James Dolan. I already know what you just talking about. When the situation which you happened in New York at the Knicks game,

I didn't appreciate it. Number one, I think there's a way legends should be treated. And not only legends, people should be treated. People should be treated. But when you are a legend, let's not fake it here. You know, there are different levels to things in this world, and there are totem poles and hierarchies, and that's just the way life is.

Certain things should not happen. And obviously, we all know what happened, but has that been righted? And obviously, you can never take the situation back. Like, you can never change it. But do you feel like that situation, has been righted by you. I said, first of all, I want to thank you for standing up,

and I know, you know, you do a lot for a lot of people, but when you did that, LeBron, Wave, a lot of other guys, you know, guys who know one another who know what should be right. Y'all, y'all stood up for me. I really appreciate that. But in the light of that, it's still a shaken situation because we haven't came to a conclusion. It's still in the,

court of law. This man, you know, it was bad what he did in front of that many of the people. It didn't care. It was a hit in front of, you know, money, money was involved. He felt like he got a billion dollars that can do what he won't. But it's just sad to see someone doing something like this day and time that we're going through so much. And it's just ain't right.

And we're going to see it going to play out. It's going to come out right because, like I said, I didn't do nothing wrong, you know. Because if I did, I would have been. and may enough to have a press conference and speak and say, hey, all y'all who had my back, I'm sorry I was wrong, but trust me, he was wrong. Absolutely, and I

don't doubt that. I look forward to that day coming because I think everybody should get what they're doing. So I look forward to that day happening. Yes. For you, for African Americans as a whole, for legends like yourself who

are mistreated in some of these organizations, you go around some of these organizations, guys put their bodies on the line. You know, you give up time with your children. You give up time with your family. And like, yeah, the money is great, but money isn't everything. You know, how you're treated as a human being goes way further than money. So I want to continue to watch this play out, but hopefully see you get what you do.

So it can set a precedent for guys who's done all of these things for these organizations. But speaking of James Dolan and the New York Knicks, you then, you get traded from the Chicago Bulls to the New York Knicks. Now, whereas you've built this relationship with Michael Jordan, y'all are like this. As an enforcer and the type and the way you play, how was that then playing against Mike?

You got to lay Mike out when he comes to the hole. He's not stopping. No, well, you know, I tell everybody, you know, once I got traded in New York, man, too, was the change to matter who I was playing against, I had to do the same thing. Played defense, Paul and Miller, and let them know that it's still, you can't come down

the lane. I'm still here. So we didn't have no problem. We took that as business. He took us every day, you know, I'm going to war. And when we play against the Bulls, I didn't see him that much. He shot a lot of jump shots. So my game was the same. You come to paint, Mike, no. You know, he's practicing against sometime. No matter. If Georgia, if Georgia's the opposite color to come, I got to step up. And that's my job. Take charges. And, you know, defense. And my defense, So I was the anchor in New York. And we had a, we had a good defense. So always in the top five and everything.

So Michael worked on his jump shot once I got traded because he knew that. He had to pull up. He had to pull up. So in his book, yeah, he talked a lot of trash about, yeah, I was born the wrong time. But, yeah, you know, hey, he knew if he came out of that lane, he was going to have to pay a toll. I like to think a guy who I have a similar relationship with, who's a big brother of mine, who's taking me on this win. and not only on the court but in business and life off the court,

also a nephew of yours, LeBron James. I think he had to work on his goddamn jump shot when I came in this league too now. No, but I think, you know, there's always been, I totally understand that because there's always been this theme made of me and LeBron and, I mean, even before I signed with Clutch, you know, like, and then I signed with Clutch, like,

how can Drayman sign with Clutch? They hate each other and this, that, and other, and the reality is we've never hated each other. Maybe when I first came into the league, like my first year or two. Because you're fighting for respect, but it was never a lack of respecting. It was just more of a, I don't know you, you don't really know me. But we quickly got to know each other and we've been building a relationship since. And people, they can't wrap their head around it.

Like, how does these guys play or LeBron drives, Dreemont, files them hard, me getting suspended from a game with a situation with LeBron, all of these things. and people can't really wrap their head around it. And I always say... But sometimes it ain't for people, you know. You know the deal, LeBron knows the deal. Like I said, with me and Mike, I mean, it's the business. You know, you're trying to win, just like LeBron is trying to win.

Mike want to win, I want to win. So at the end of the day, shake your hand, go separate ways. Absolutely. Absolutely. And speaking of yourself, those next teams, you obviously had a great big man with you. and Patrick Ewing, and just looking at the shift in the big man today, like our, I would say our two most dominant centers in the league,

and I don't think anyone would argue it. And if they should, if they would, they're crazy. Our two most dominant centers in the league are Joel and B and Nicola Yolkish. And they play a totally different way than Patrick Ewing, then a Shaquille O'Neal, then even, I mean, Hakeem a little bit, Joel got some Hakeem in them, but even Joel is shooting the three and doing a lot more off the dribble. what do you make of the shift for the big man?

And you hit on it a little bit earlier, but what do you make of the shift and how the big man operates? I mean, you got to play with what the team scheme is. Your team skill allows you to flow around the three-point line. Like, you know, in Joccov, the offense goes through him. A lead, the offense goes through him, but he do go to the post.

Both of him end up in the post sometime, probably 40%, but the offense go through both of the big guys. And like you said, it's a spread offense game now. And when your big guys can dribble like, you know, a small forward, it's better for your team. So if I was playing the game today, I'll play a zone because they're going to come to you anyway. So, but I mean, like you say, these guys,

got some skills for big guys, probably more than the guys when we play, except for Keeney and La Juan, can do a lot, you know, free throw line and stand. So, yeah, give them the question. I mean, they can still play with the small forwards, being a center, anchor center playing small forward. That's what I look at it.

And the way you play, it's just like, you know, you, like a Scotty, you know, you do everything for your team. You set the picks, you do the role, you get to triple doubles. I mean, you bring energy. And, you know, same thing you did for Michigan State, you know. Thank you. And, you know, I mean, I went to see y'all play. Several times when you know, we was in school,

doing your game would travel to the NBA because what you can do, a point forward like. And that's what the game is right now. Absolutely. And for you, who was the toughest person when you were playing that you had to guard? Well, I mean, I didn't look at none of them tough.

I just feel like when the guy getting 20, 25 times in the post like a shack, a calm alone, you know, Barclay. McCale was more of an in-between post and mid-range jump shooter. But, I mean, my job, when you get a guy who average 30-point, hold them to half of their points that night, and, you know, just play with force. Absolutely.

And I'm sure you watch at least a little bit of the game today, if not a lot. Yeah. But when you're watching the game today, who's that guy that you're seeing you, like, I would fucking love your guard him? I mean, A, D, even if he's so crafted, he can do so much, that's a challenge. He can, you know, put the ball on the floor. He can shoot the three.

I would like to check a B because he's big and he's mobile. I mean, I like checking big guys, you know, just to see where I'm at, you know. So probably them two guys would love to, you know, check them in this day and age. I would like to play LeBron because we're the same side. You know, just to see the shrimp against him. I mean, like you said, you like LeBron, like LeBron. You know, I just like what he do on the court and all the court. You know, he carries himself in style up.

No, 100%. And actually, in your book, you said you knew LeBron was going to leave Cleveland the first time. Why is that? Well, why was that? That's something, you know, I was around them. But when the season start, you know, they played back-to-back. So they played that Friday and Saturday. but they played in Orlando first

and I came down there and just hang out with them like the East Steaks and hang out and drinking a little weird wine and then after the game he said you know I knew that was going to Miami and I told him I was coming down there but at night he was just

I said you know I said y'all play after the game tomorrow you're going to Miami and said yeah I said you know I'm coming down there I said I like Miami I'm gonna go there yeah I said really I'm gonna go to Miami and it was just like the first game into the season

oh wow yeah Yeah, and in this book, we talked about other things, too, but when I got to Miami that night at halftime, because Pat Rada had it almost sleep. I said, somebody said, it's coming out here. I said, okay. I said, you might be playing against him. He just said, ha, ha, ha, you know.

So I told me, yeah, it's LeBron. He said, oh, okay. And do you think Pat believes you when you said that? I'm on his guy. I mean, he might not say, you know, but he probably not never said, but I think he did. That's interesting.

I know they had to do the numbers, this and that. But I might have made him really go put the numbers in the computer and see how they come out. He probably went and did that. Oh, wow, that makes sense. That's interesting. That's interesting. LeBron tells somebody that at the day and sources will be all over the place talking about.

Yeah, but, you know, when somebody's a good friend, you know, like you said, people are probably like, it didn't get out a whole year. I mean, no. I mean, you know how good them guys are. And, you know, you know, they tell you something for anybody else to know, you know. 100%. And that's why we, you know, I've been cool with all of them

from day one, you know. So when he invited me to his way and, you know, it's sure he trusted me. Absolutely. That's one of the ultimate things you can do for someone. Invite them to your wedding, invite them into your home, welcome up your home to someone.

That's the ultimate respect. Yeah, you know how they do it. They do it big. Absolutely. I'm not even going to say what Malva always say because I know people will take. because I know people will take it and they'll run with it. Oh, yeah, you ain't going to twist it.

I don't care. Mav always tell me, Drey, many have done it, but not many has done it better. And I agree 100% with what they've done as young African-American man paving away for the next generation. And not only the next generation for the guys like myself who's coming up, I'm not very far behind LeBron and age. You know, it's not like I'm some totally different generation for what he's done.

and Mav and Rich and Randy, PR, the whole crew and just what they've done for us as African Americans, which goes way further than just us as athletes. I'm extremely appreciative. And one thing I hate most is when people say,

I'm a be just like them or, you know, with my guy, I'm a beach, and it goes so much further than that. You know, you're talking some of these smartest guys around, you know, so many hardest working guys around. So I have a huge appreciation for those guys. Well, I think in the book, when I talk about him and Michael at towards the end of my book, it's so much like love. It's a love, it's a love fest really, you know, because I know both them so well. And LeBron is probably the owner athlete playing a sport and being a billionaire

and why he's still playing. I mean, that's going to show you what he's doing. It's incredible. Absolutely. And like I said, that whole crew, and he held them accountable, put all of them in the space. You do this, you do this. And they're working it. Like, you know, like I said, Bab is running an empire, you know, he was rich in a position with the agent and Randy. And they all holding their stuff up. And you can give them a lot of credit.

100%. In your book, you also spoke about kicking Dennis Ross. robin out of a steakhouse in South Beach. Walk me through that. Because I got a lot of respect for Dennis Robman. Yeah. And he went at me a couple of times. I didn't quite understand it, but I still have respect and love for it.

But I definitely got to hear about this one. So basically, you know, in the book, I'm going to tell you this one, but many more in the book about him. But this one was like, wow. So we in South Beach at the Gansborough on Collins. We did appearance together from like two to four. And we finish up, you know, has time to keep. He was like, what you're doing in Iowa?

So I'm going to my steakhouse, red steakhouse in South Beach in Washington. He said, okay. He said, I would meet you around 7.30 quarter eight. You know, time go past. 7 o'clock, I'm getting ready to go to the steakhouse. So I stop at Prime 112 because it's right with two blocks apart. So I'm in there talking to miles about 715, that I just, that 720, the manager at the red Steakhouse called me, oh, get here.

I said, what's going on? You won't believe what dead is doing. I said, what are he doing? He's eating out of people plates. I said, what? So I tell, Miles, I'll be back. So I walk around there. So I get around and I look through the shade.

I look through the window. And he was just like, next thing. Like, oh, shit. Really? I'm walking in there. I need a beat. I went straight to him. I like, Dennis, what is you doing?

Something just relax and try to, you know, entertain? I said, oh. And I walked him outside and thought, that you never come around me again in life. Wow. And where did your relationship go from there? Like, don't come around again life. And he ain't came around since. During the book, another thing, they ain't come up, but, you know, you got the book.

So the next thing is crazy, too. So it's crazy, though. I got to finish the book. The manager's like, oh, I'm so glad you came over here, man. Because he was just, you know, I guess he was just trying to be funny. But, no, this is a high stab, you know, business. You don't do that, Dennis. Absolutely.

And that was my name on it. Absolutely. No, 100% I respect that. Great playout. He changed the game in a way, but off the court, he's a different guy. I get him on the court. Off the court, no, not no more. I gave him respect because we played the same position.

We know how hard to play that position. And when you're not, you know, demanding the ball every game, you got to stop the other team to get the ball. Absolutely. One of the best to do that. But all the core is this different story. No, 100%. I think we all know.

I mean, we've just seen the stories. Obviously, we don't know like you know, but we've seen the stories all over the place, but obviously in the last dance as well. But Uncle Oak, I know you got to get out of here. I don't want to take much more of your time as much as I'm enjoying this. But I do have to ask you one last thing

because I think the world need to know this. And, you know, maybe some people do, but I don't know if everyone knows. But I need you to talk to them about you cooking, Uncle. And I still have not had the opportunity to have that cooking yet. I told you several times, even in the finals, when y'all beat my Cavaliers that year, we was in there at the bar, at the steakhouse.

What's steakhouse? We were at more than the steakhouse. They went from a hotel. And I told you at Rich House, we got to, I keep telling you, whenever you want me to come on and cook, whatever you want. You know I did that I'm chopping up with the guy green now for Flint.

But whatever you want this, oh, real real dessert, main, you know, fine dining, whatever you want, hey, I'll be in L.A. Super Bowl, so let me know. Oh, okay. I come down there.

I know you're going to be down at home, your home game or something. I come by there. I'll be in L.A. at that time because we play the Clippers a day after the Super Bowl. Okay. In L.A.

We got time. We can do this. Yes, sir. Appreciate this. Thanks for breaking me on the show. Thank you, Uncle Oak. I appreciate you coming on. And for those of y'all that don't know,

Uncle Oak said he cooked better than your grandma. So I definitely need to experience that because I personally know my grandmother's cooking is incredible, and I'm not sure I take anyone meals over my grandmother's self. But Uncle Oaks said, I cook better than your grandma or your auntie. And we all know, I can only speak for myself and I know

a black grandmother and a black auntie they throw down in that kitchen. So I'm looking forward to that but it's definitely great having Uncle Charles Oakley on the show and I enjoy that. I hope everyone else enjoyed it but most importantly make sure you go get the last enforcer.

I need to hear some more of these stories. I mean I've only come across a couple of them and I'm really looking into deeper, driving into that book because it's, you know, it's stories that you don't get from the NBA. Like, it's stories that, uh, that, that never truly comes out. And you know, the thing is, the thing about Charles Oakley and when it says the last enforcer, like I'm rolling with that, you know, as someone, like I said, as someone who gets the enforcer tag and, and all of those things, like, that's a different, that's a different thing.

Charles Oakley was a different, different, different beast. And I have the utmost respect for him. So I'm looking forward to hear some of them stories because the reason you won't get a lot of stories like that is because, number one, most people aren't comfortable enough bringing those things back up because of what could happen after the fact. You know, what Tyrone Hill may think. There's another one in there about Jeff McGinnis. What he may think, you know, with Charles Oakley putting these stories into a book, you know, quite frankly, Uncle Oak don't give a damn.

And that's why you're getting the last enforcer. That's why you're getting these raw untold stories. So for all NBA fans out there, make sure you check out the last enforcer. However it is that you get your books, like I said, whether you're ordering them, whether it's an audio book, make sure you check that out because these are raw, uncut stories, and you're getting them right from the horse's mouth. So definitely check that out, enjoy it, because it does not get like this. and I'm not sure you'll see it again

because people just, like I said, they're just not comfortable doing it. So appreciate it, love it, enjoy it, but most importantly, go cop it. And I'm looking forward to, like I said, taking that deeper dive, and I hope you are too. But that's a wrap from the Dremont Green Show this week. See y'all back here next week.

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