The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show - Gilbert Arenas

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Gilbert Arenas joins 'The Draymond Green Show' to discuss how attending the University of Arizona shaped his career, his big break in the NBA, why he signed with the Washington Wizards, how he tried to get the team "out of the Michael Jordan era,” how the infamous gun incident with Javaris Crittenton changed his life, the importance of "vets" in the NBA for mentorship, the perception of European players in the league, and working in the media as players. Produced by: Jackson Safon #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. The Dremont Green Show is presented by Fandul. The NBA season, kicking into gear, baby, no better place to get in on the action than Fandul. Fandul app is safe. You get paid fast. A lot of ways to play. The spread, the money line, team totals, players, props, a lot of stuff. Over-Unders.

Jump into the action. Same game parlays are my favorite. Just use the promo code Colin and download the fan. dual app today. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. Our next guest I'm excited to have because you know this guy obviously is a great basketball player. Um, had a really good career. Actually, a lot of people who I've talked to has said it's the best player they've ever played with. Like, most talented guy they've ever played with like several people. I'm talking Andre Goddala, Richard Jefferson, like real NBA guys. Like, all.

All-Star. I have all said, best player they've played with No Chill, Gil, Gilbert Arena's my brother. Welcome to the show. I appreciate you coming to. Oh, man. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. You know, first off, you know, just getting into early life. You know, born in Tampa, Florida, at what age did you move to the Valley and, you know, out here in Los Angeles? Yeah, so my dad decided to become an inspiring actor, you know, wanted to do a whole thing. I wanted to do Hollywood life. So around seven is when we took the journey from Tampa to Cali. Didn't work out so well, you know.

Was homeless for a little bit, lived in the car for a little bit. And then because he didn't have his shit together, he shipped me back to Tampa until he got stable. He was working with Chuck Norris, Mike Tyson, bodyguarding for Mike Tyson, John Claude Van Dam and once he got situated I came back out around 10 Okay

What effect do you feel like It had on you moving on her Because like L.A. as you know Is a hotbed for talent And the basketball out here is different Florida is more of a football state What effect did that have on your life And moving out here?

That's the funny part I was a football player Really? Yes, I was a straight football player Baseball player So nothing about basketball and my dad was making ends meet coaching basketball. So he was coaching and refereeing, right?

So I'll just be sitting there or playing outside at the park. So I never really paid attention to basketball. And then what ended up happened is one of my friends in school lived next to the park. So I used to go watch him play. He was like, I'm trying out. So I was like, should I go try out too? And then whatever he said, I just copy, point guard, point art, right? You know, it was one of those things.

And then, you know, that's how I got started. Yeah, my boy Bobby Mitchell, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Going back to, that's nuts. You go through, finish school here, go through high school. You go to University of Arizona, you know, play for the great Lou Olson. What was that experience like as a freshman going into Arizona?

I know those legendary coaches like that can be really tough on freshmen. Now, you know what's funny. If it wasn't for Luke, I probably wouldn't have made it to the NBA. I probably would have been kicked out of school. You know, I was young. I was 17 going in, so I was real immature. Right. I was like, it was, I was 12 going into college.

You know what I was 12? As most of us are. Yeah. Like, the kid's side of me just want to do everything that I could possibly paintball shooting. Like, I did everything. Fire alarm ringing. stealing the go carts or the golf carts from the security.

So, Lou D Olson didn't penalize me on the basketball court for the immature stuff I was doing outside of the court. And he's like, you know what? If the school decides to penalize you, you won't be able to play this. So that's, if you mess up here, they're going to take it away from you.

I don't need to do that. And then from there, made me understand, like, what this can affect this. And then if I don't want this, back to this court, then I got to really calm down on this side of the lines. Absolutely. And your sophomore year, you go on, you win a pack 10 player a year. You carry squad to the national championship game where y'all eventually lose to Duke.

But what was that year like, you know, you have a decent freshman year, good freshman year, and then really taking that jump that next year? What was, like, what happened with you? Was it a confidence jump? Obviously, he's working on your game, but what helped you take that next step, that next, your sophomore year? You know, just like anything, you know,

like our rookie season, you know, we don't know what to expect when we get there, right? You know, we're watching on TV. It seems faster, seems slower, you know. You know, so that first year, it was like, I'm just playing just off-field. You know, then once, you know, once I got into my second year,

the game slowed down. I got smarter. I understood the rules, more understood players, understood concept and schemes. So, you know, when we all got into our second year,

it was we're going for the championship. You know, we thought our, my rookie season, my freshman season, that we were good enough to win it, but we was no Cincinnati.

You know what I mean? Absolutely. It was no Cincinnati. Absolutely. And that's Kenya Martin and those guys at the time, right? Yes.

Yes. Demar Johnson, Kenyon, Kenyon, Logan, Kenny Satterfield. So they were stacked. But they was rugged. There was a rugged group. We was, you know, we was all finessed and stuff. They was just, you know, they was rugged. You know, so going into, you know, the tournament that year, we was really, like, really

feeling ourselves. Hey, we blew y'all, we blew the Michigan State out of us. Relax, relax. No need to go there. They can look up the history if they want to. We're not doing no Michigan State. Slander here. However, I watched that.

I watched that gay. You know, like, you know, us, you guys, Duke, Illinois that year was good. I think Frank Robinson, no, Frank, some Frank was there. And Maryland was all right. Yes. You know, so it was five teams that could have won in all that year. Okay. And, you know, then you decide to take that next step after your sophomore year, drafted the 31st overall pick by the Go State Warriors. Number one, what, why do you think,

or maybe you know, why did you go second round? With the talent that you had, the year that you had, then you go in the second round, what was that about? You know, back then, they didn't, it was them tweeners. Tell me about that word. Yeah, right? I was a tweening group. I was a tweening. So I wasn't, I wasn't big enough to be a shooting guard and wasn't a point guard, right? So I was stuck in the middle. So my comparison was like a smaller Catina Mowgli. Yeah, so I was a smaller Ketino Mowgli.

If you look, in that draft, it said, I'm the best one-on-one player in this draft. Me doing some things, like, like, you know, through the draft, like I didn't want to do the treadmill test. Me, it was more of an ego thing, right? I trained my ass off. Like, I really, like, really ran miles. And then you put this test and say, 18 minutes, but nobody can win.

That didn't say, well, there has to be a winner. We just can't just all go to 18 and then, you know, like, nah, I want, you know, somebody sit on here three hours. I want that type of, you know what I mean? So I'm like, why do I need to prove that I'm in shape? And then what does this test got to do with drafting and what does this test got to do with training camp? So whatever you see here is meaningless, to be honest,

because me being in shape now doesn't have nothing to do with me being in shape with that season starts. So like little things like that, I just seen flaws and I attacked the flaws. No, that's interesting. That's interesting. And I agree and I understand.

I actually, I worked out for the Boston Celtics. They were one of my 20 workouts when I was coming out. And I worked out for the Boston Celtics, and they had us do like this Boston Celtics three-minute run or something at the end of the workout. And like I did the run, but like I'm not hauling ass. And it was a good learning experience for me, but I did the run.

And afterwards, Danny Aange asked me, who's the president GM at the time, Danny Aynxed me, he's like, yeah, so I expected you to do better in that run. Why didn't you get more lines than the run? And I was like, well, quite frankly, I feel like the run is kind of to say whether I'm in shape or not, but you just watch me work out for two hours and destroy everybody. So I'm not really sure like what the run is going to show you.

You know what I'm saying? Exactly. It's A is not basketball just running from line to line. And like, I mean, we just played a lot of basketball. We played ones, twos, threes, how to get out of a trap. I did everything well in this workout. So I'm just not sure, like, what I really needed to prove in this run. Like, that don't really work.

So I 100% understand that. Yes. Like, it's the draft process to me is so flawed. You let players dodge players. Like, if I'm a team, right, and I'm looking at a few guys, I want to put them together. Like, this player's dodging this player. If you're dodging this player, then why,

I want you. Yes. You're not going to take, you're not taking a challenge. I want the guy that's willing to take the challenge. He's willing to say, I'm testing my skill against everybody. Because when an NBA,

you can't sit games and be skis, you know, that's, you know what I mean? So it's like, it was one of those things where when you go through it and it doesn't work the way it should have, you'd be like,

this is flawed. Yeah. Like I did 17 workouts. Sacramento. I went, I went like 20. need three for 25 from a three. Their excuse was I couldn't shoot

because they said, oh, I had a set shot, you know, that's not realistic. It can get blocked. It's too slow. I was like, how am I going to get blocked if I can pump fake? It's like, it's like it just makes excuses, right? You just make up excuses not to draft. Just so you didn't want to drive me, bro. That's all I'd say.

Right? No, absolutely. It doesn't, it doesn't measure heart. Mm-hmm. It doesn't measure if you have heart, if you have a work ethic. And that's why a Hall of Famer like yourself can go in a second round. I appreciate it.

And they not, and they not, they miss it because this, this doesn't measure, this system doesn't measure who has it, who wants it. Facts. You know, and that's the problem with it. No, absolutely. I agree. You get drafted and you get the number zero. I've heard speculation of why you got the number zero.

But I think what's also impressive is, like, Like, I feel like you were really the first person to really go that route, like zero and kind of make that number of thing. You know what I'm saying? And I don't think people in sports or fans, I would say, really understand that. Like, the impact that you had on the game, like, zero was a shit number. Like, now zero is a very prominent number, you know? Yeah. But what was your reasoning for going with number zero once you was drafted?

Yeah, so actually it started in college. So I was 25 because I was a Penny Hardaway fan. So I'm, you know, I was Penny, Memphis, Penny, I'm Penny Hardaway. So going into Arizona, you know, looking at get 25, but that was Steve Kerr's number. Yeah. So they were saying they're going to retire it so you can't play in it. So I'm like, oh, I don't have any other number. So they said, all right, these two numbers are being released this year.

One and zero. The first thing I thought, oh, Penny. But when that zero, when I seen the zero, it was like, man, that's how many minutes they said I will play in Arizona. They said, I am not a Arizona type of player. And I'm going to play zero a minute. So I was like, I want to go with zero. So I can, like, no matter what I'm doing, I can always look at it. And this is what they said who's going to play zero minutes.

So, you know, so when I went to Golden State, drafted 31, mad, oh, I was hot. Pissed. You know, threw my cubits of conia out the window. Get all out. I don't know if they have the recording, but this is a recording that you should find. I was the cockiest person when I got drafted. Like, I was mad. Like, I don't care about this.

Hey, hey, by the middle of the season, I'm going to be starting. I don't care who's in front of me. I'm going to be starring. Click. Jeez. And you were? Yeah, it ended up happening. Those 40 games, it wasn't promising.

Like me started, me started happening overnight. It wasn't. I was just about saying, what was your break? Like, my break was David Lee got hurt. I started the season. We started like 16 and 1 or something. And then the rest was history. What was your break to kind of get you over that hump?

after those first 40 games. It was, it was, Mookie Baylock, basically getting kicked off the team because he wasn't being a veteran. Then Larry Hughes going down on an Acosperts. So I was on IR.

Like back then, we didn't have G-Leat. D-Leod, we didn't have that. So I was on IR. And I'm playing like, you know, two minutes, one minute, if there's a blowout of it, you know, there was no, me getting a little,

there was none of that. So it was zero to 100. like really fast. So Larry Hughes goes down and then they take me off IR. Bobby Sura didn't want to start. So he's like, I'm playing well at where I am right now. So put him in bed for a couple minutes. You know, let me see how the game's going, then set me in.

That sounds like a true vet who knows I got to go out here and deal with these starters. I'm going to keep coming off the bench so I can play against these guys coming off the bench. You go deal with them starters, young fellow. Yeah, and Dave Cowan's got fire. So Dave Cowan's got fired. And Brian Winters ended up being the coach. And Brian Winters was like, you know, I'm going to go with the guys, you know, who play hard, who work hard, who shows up every day for practice. And because I was coming in at 6 o'clock at the morning, you know, working on my game, Mark Jackson.

Like, Mark Jackson saved my career. Wow. Mine, too, by the way. Mark, it's mine, too, by the way. Yeah, no, not that one. Philly Mark Jackson. Ah, okay, okay. Yeah, Philly Mark Jackson.

Okay. We were teammates, and he used to wake me up at 6 o'clock and say, man, listen, don't worry about where you are. He said, I made $25 million and I only played 25 games. The last 25 games, you know, made $25 million. And he was like, just, just focused. And he was just teaching me playing because I was in a funk, like, man, you know, I'm probably not good enough. And I was, you know, I was very quick. I was ready to quit.

I was ready to quit. And then all of a sudden, you know, when he said my name, I was actually ready. That's dope. I always tell people, your name, your name, your number is getting called in the NBA. And if you're not ready, it may never get called again. Yep, you're right. You're going to get called once. And it is so important that you're ready for that when they call your name.

I tell these young guys like, man, I used to, I used to. to get called in with 20 seconds to go to Gar Kobe because they got the game when the shot coming up. Like, that's how I got on the floor. So you have to be ready for that name getting called. But coming out, 31st pick, you signed a two-year, $800 million, excuse me, $800,000, $845,000 contract for two years. And something very interesting happens with you.

And, you know, for those of you out there that don't quite, understand the CBA, which is the collective bargaining agreement. You see all these contracts and different things. It is the agreement that is the rule book, the law book, or whatever you want to call it, for the NBA. It's what we have to go by. That's what the NBA functions on is the CBA. It is, they have something in there called the Gilbert Arena's rule. For those of you that don't understand, the Gilbert Arena's rule, I'll let Gilbert

Arrinis explained the Gilbert Arrana's rule to you, but you're going to sign a six-year, $64 million contract after your second year in the NBA. Can you explain us to Gilbert Aranis Rule and what you went through during that period and your contract ending in and assigning that new deal as a restrictive preation?

Okay, so, you know, like they had the burn rights, meaning like after four years, you know, you get some type of rights, right? So with a second-year player, no second year player basically played over the mid-level exception, right? So, you know, the best second rounder within two years you're going to sign mid-level. So what end up happening is I played above that. So, like, I think it was $49 million, right?

That was the cap of Golden State. Okay. And midway through the season, I was already being, Like, I remember Kiki Vanderway from Denver was like, we're offering them 51. Whatever, whatever they can't go, we're going to go above that. So it was already being said that you're not going to be able to afford them. So during that season with Coach Musselman, that second season, they were trying to try to hold the contract down by putting me in three minutes, putting, you know, that was going on. Oh, yeah, that was going on.

Wow. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, because the first part of the season, I was averaging about 18, 6, and 6. Wow. You know, I became the second option at that point. I'm the last five-minute guy. Second option to who?

Antoine Jameson. Okay, okay. Yeah, so Antoine Jameson. So he was being told to keep him down, you know, so they was trying to play me three minutes and then, you know, think my man, Earl Boykins, Earl Boykins and and Coach Musselman had a great relationship

and Earl Bullkins is like, like, if you want him next year, you don't think he's going to remember this? Yeah. Right? If you're losing games, you don't think you're going to fire you, play him. Play him, right?

And then, you know, that's when coach was like, yeah, my bad, I'm just, and then so he put me out there and I ran with it. So when we went to free agency market, you know, the door, already opened up. I think I was either number two behind Lamar Odom in the free agency market. So because of because of I only played two years, I didn't have my bird rights, meaning that Golden State can only offer me a certain amount, which was 49. It was a, it was basically

seven years, 49 million. Oh, wow. Yeah, so seven year 49 was the was the max that they could offer for me. Denver already came out with six years, 51. So, I went to go, I went, listened to everyone, and Golden State was the last one. And I ain't go a lot. They had a hell of a pitch. They had a hell of a pitch.

You know what I mean? We were all young. We were young. You know, they had like a Viper Ferrari, the Lambo downstairs, the Corvette. You know what I mean? And so what we were trying to do is we were trying to sign under the table deal, you know, one year, 4.9, and then have the contract already signed seven years, 79 million. Okay.

So that was the deal that I was going to sign now, and then we was both going to hold it in a vote. And by the time I got to them, go to, Wizards already offered me the max that they can offer me. So the owner's like, whatever, whatever I have, you know, 58, 61, 65, 75, whatever I have, whatever I have, it's yours. Just come. So, you know, the number was the number from Washington was coming around 60 to 64. It was somewhere around there. So when we did the calculations, you know, you take the 4.9 plus the 79, came over about 83 million.

By the time the match, I would have already been out of my Washington deal. Yeah. You have Jason Richardson. You have me. You have Troy Murphy, right? Yeah. Have Yerey Wilson next year. You have Dunleavy.

someone was going to get screwed. All of us was going to get our money. And, you know, it was basically like, the only one that can get screwed who don't have a name is you. And I had to really take that in consideration. Like, if I got hurt that next year and didn't perform, you know what? So I was like, you know what?

As much as I want to love to stay here, I need to go and branch off myself. That's very interesting. Like I said, for those of you that don't understand, as a second round pick, I actually benefited off the Gilbert Arena's rule. Because you're, you're, if you're a second, so if you are a first round pick for those of you out there,

you have two years guaranteed. Then you have two years of player option. And the team controls everything. I mean, it's not player option. I'm sorry, it's two years team options. So the team controls everything. As a second round pick, you can get back to the money, But prior to Gilbert Arena's rule, you could only get the mid-level.

And then that rule changed with you, which was huge. It changed a lot for myself. It changed. I think Jay Crowder was able to take it. There's so many guys now. So what happened was after me, who benefited first from it was Carlos Boozer. Yes. With Utah, right?

Yeah. Yes. So which, which, so what happened. was they did they did the they did you can match it then they added another year so they so you know back then it was one year deals one one order max two that was it for the second round there was no option three and there was none of that yes so after the rule they added an option three right like okay just in case so with carlos booser boozer after his second year it's the team's option.

Yes. So he already got a deal from Utah. He got a deal from Utah. So basically he went into the office and convinced them that, you know, let me out of the deal. And I just signed right now for the 24 million. All right, I'll sign right now for the 24 million. This is where I want to stay, you know.

And it was dumb enough to do it. There was dumb enough to do it. And he took off. And he left and went and signed where? He went to Utah, like 80, it was like 87 million. Okay, so who was he with prior to Utah? He was with Cleveland. He was with LeBron.

Oh, okay. Yeah, so he was, he was bawling. So he was basically saying, like, like, if you sign me this year, then I go to next year, I'm going to be worth all of this. So right now, you know, you know, 24 million. I signed a 24, 5 year or whatever. And it's like, oh, shit, okay, we'll get them for the 24 so they let him out and he took off that's crazy yeah that's crazy yeah here with the okie

don't i wonder who his agent was i know cleveland forever hate him yeah yeah that was yeah that was the bad one like that's what you cheer like yeah all right somebody got their ass absolutely it happens they come fewer and far in between so you got to appreciate the ones that do have so you but you leave go to state and you you go sign that deal with washington um how was it Adjusting, number one, that's the whole life change moving from the west coast to the east coast after all of those years. How was that adjustment, different organizations? How was that adjustment for you moving to Washington? You know, just, you know, I had the relationship with the owner, you know, Mr. A. Pollard, rest of peace.

That was my backing. That's who I talked to. That's who me and him, you know, had the conversation that, you know, and him. All he asked for is get me out of the Jordan era. Everyone's killing me about Jordan. I need you to make them stop talking about Jordan and, you know, what happened with us. And I'm indebted to you.

And I said, all right, I got you. And that was it. That's a tall task. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make people forget about Michael Jordan. That's a tall task. Yeah, because, you know, it's like, You know, think about it, it's MJ and you were supposed to be an owner,

and you didn't hire him as an owner. He was getting killed in the media. You know, so he was like, you know, make them forget about this, you know, and focused on, you know, the team. And I was all right, hey, I'm going to go out there and do my best. And he was like, as long as you're, you know, doing what you're doing, I'm going to push for you. Because, you know, he was one of the original four owners.

Ah, okay. Yeah, so he has pool pool. Yeah, cool. For sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, it makes a ton of sense. You become a three-time All-Star, which is huge.

Career going great. Then you run into the unfortunate incident with Javar's Critin. How do you think, or do you think, that situation really changed the way Gilbert Arenas was treated in the NBA, the way Gilbert Arenas was looked at? Do you think that really end up changing the outcome of your career? No, before that, I had three knee surgeons in 14 months. Yeah. You had microfractures, right?

Yeah, I had the microchractors that just ruined everyone's career. Absolutely. You know, so I was part of that experiment. So, truth be told, I wasn't the same player. When I got into the trouble, I was. wasn't the same player. There's my owner just passed. Them being loyal to me wasn't.

It was more business at that point. You know, Mr. A. Poland signed his guide to Max D. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Because Mr. And this was this was a, this was what happened the year before. When I opted out of my contract, I'm hurt. Didn't only play two games.

Mr. Poland said, I don't care what they're saying. You did your job. whatever you want, I'm going to sign it. Whatever you want, I don't care what you want. I'm going to cite it. I don't care what the doctor said. I don't care what the general manager saying. So you're my guy.

You lived up to yours. I'm going to live up to mine and sign me to the 111. Right? So he didn't listen to experts. He didn't listen to the general manager. He didn't listen to no doctor. He didn't care. So once he passed, I remember, I remember we're at the ceremony.

And Brendan Haywood was like, he looked at me and said, yeah, they're going to come. You better be on your best behavior. They're going to come after that contract. Man, I'm untouchable, man. He ain't doing nothing to me, right? No, he was right. I was wrong, right?

So, you know, going through that situation with Javaris, it was real shocking because it's like my whole thing was like, man, you can do a hundred things right. You make one mistake. It erases your whole. whole legacy. Absolutely. Your whole legacy, like, my whole legacy is, is cleared out for one bad decision,

one bad judgment. You know what I mean? And that's what didn't sit well with me. Like, the Wizards part, you know, that's expected. You know, that's business. I get it. I understand that. I would have did the same thing, you know, especially now when you're older.

You know, it's business. It's this, you know, I gave them a chance to do it, you know, and they have to make. their decisions. So, you know, but my thing was just worldwide over is like, you know, this one thing is what you're judging me off of now. And that's, that's that, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't sleep at night with that. Like, that's where I just lost the love. Like, it's like, I was batting 100%. I missed one shot. I'm the sorry as my fuck on the planet. Like, I can't live with that, And then that's where, you know, I really kind of had lost the love at that moment. And right there, I was just moving through the motions.

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Win or lose? You're guaranteed to get $10 added to your account. Get $10 back every Thursday. Win or lose with TNT Thursdays. Exclusively on Fandul's sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. So you lose love for that. you're also battling the micro fracture stuff and injuries from that. And I know towards the end of your career where the last year you end up playing,

you went over to Shanghai and played with the Shanghai Sharks. Do you ever look back at your time in Shanghai, or do you feel like you weren't just quite the player that you were anymore to do that? But do you ever look back at your time in Shanghai and wonder, wish you would have stayed over there longer after looking at the business that Stefan Marbury end up building and going over to China and kind of making a career out of it after the NBA? Not see, so when I, when, so I was the, before I went to Shanghai, I was working out with

the clippers. So I was playing with the clippers that summer. You know, they had open gym. Bella was there. Everybody was there. So I'm playing well. And then the Lakers open up their practice facility two weeks before training camp start. So that's when like Steve Nash was there.

That's when that team was coming in. So I'm playing well. Like, you know, Eddie Jordan, my head coach, he's the assistant coach over the Mike Brown came over. So I'm tearing their asses up. Right. So I'm talking to Eddie. And he's like, what are you going to do? He said, because they really like you.

So they're trying to see if you want to go to the, at the time, I think it still was the D. And you play on the Dili team, get all the understanding of the offense. That's like, what offense? The one I created, the Princeton. Like, I don't have to worry about that. I know that's the back of my head. And he was like, you know, that's what they're saying, just to stay in shape. Because, you know, they don't want to, the season starts and you're just in limbo mode.

So I was like, you know, I'm thinking about going to China, you know, if I go to China, get my little swag back over there, shoot the shit, you know, shoot every shot. And I'm thinking about passing the ball. It's like, that'd be a good thing. I didn't know Doc Rivers was inviting me to training camp for the Clippers. But, you know, it was when I heard about it, I'm like, nah, because they just signed JJ Redick. They got Jamal Crawford, Chris Paul.

So I'm like, I'm not going to play. I mean, I'm not going to put myself in a situation where I can get some time and show I still got it. So I end up going to, you know, I end up, you know, going to China, make the team, the coach there. I'm glad I don't even remember this motherfucker name for him. I'm glad I don't remember his name. He made me train 10 days straight, two a days. What? Right?

Yeah, to see if I was in shape, if I had it, like, you know what I mean? And just whirl my body. So by the time we got to the first game, we're playing against Stefan Marbury. Came down, hit a three on them, came back down, pulled my groin. Cool three muscles in my groin. Yeah.

So pulled three muscles on my groin. And that's what kind of hurt my situation there. So I had to come back to the States. You know, I finished this season, like, you know, hobbling here and there. Came back to the States, rehabbed all summer. And then I was playing with Boogie. I was playing with Boogie.

and me and Boogie was playing well. He said he was going to give me an invite to play for sack. So it's going to go, you know, sack or go back to China. And I played in the Drew League. And poor the guy again. Tour my meniscus. Jesus. Yeah, so it was one of those things like, all right, I give it up.

That's it. I get it, I get it. I understand. I gave it up. So that was really how it kind of ended that, you know, every time I put so much work in it, a little knack, let me know, let it go. Yeah.

Let it go. Yeah. You quickly start, like, moving into the podcast space and, like, different media opportunity. What made you branch into that space so fast? Because guys weren't doing that. Like, I have a podcast now in the NBA, Patrick Bradley. But you started moving into that space really fast.

What was it that took you into that space so fast? And obviously, you've got No Chill Gild now. For those of you out there, Gil's Arena is premiering soon. You could tell us more about that. But what really took you into that space so fast? Okay, so the NBA was doing this experiment called, like, Players' Diary, right? Okay. So they was looking for players that can be like the Diary Players.

It was like me, Dunleady, a bunch of non-Nor. other, you know, they didn't have no personalities, right? So what ended up happening is, you know, just like you, you put a mic, you know what to do with you. You put the bike in my mouth. Absolutely. So what happened was I blew up. Like, you know, my diary was the hottest thing moving on NBA.com, right? Like, I would, it was, you know, like, it really helped me sell my brand.

to, you know, to everyone. So when I was done playing, and people started talking about podcasting. See, podcasting wasn't how we're doing it now. Yeah. It was just audio. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And I'm like, I have not no radio dude, man. Like, you know what I mean? So I was like, man, just reported video-wise, and then we'll go from there. So it was like, then it became video podcasting. Yeah. My first three episodes, I was like, oh, I ain't like it. It didn't sound right.

And then they put it out anyway. And then everyone started liking it. And what I decided was like, this is like new media. Yeah. This is new media because players get to talk to players. We both understand each other. We both understand how to protect each other. You know what I mean?

So this is the lane. We're different from the big, media who has no, they don't care about the person themselves. You know what I mean? They don't have to interview one of us. They can just talk about us. Yeah. With the podcast.

We need each other. And if I say something about a bear, it's not a grudge. I can say something bad about him a day. I can say something good about him tomorrow. You know what I mean? This is not, you know, I don't, I don't hold no grudges against a player, you know. And when players see that, okay, okay, he gave him my credit here. Okay, cool.

They don't take it personal. you know with ESPN or them they go they go they hold it like you did something personally to them well I think with a lot of this media man you start you start like these guys they're no longer just dissecting basketball game no they're like taking shots at people character you know like I had like I had an issue last week uh and I spoke about it on the podcast or a week maybe two weeks ago or whatever it was, when Russ got traded away from the Lakers. Now, like I said,

I'm not in the Lakers locker room, so I can't speak on how Russ was, how anyone was towards Russ, what his attitude was. I can't speak on any of that. But the entitlement in media today is what really, like, I would speak, like you just said, the new media.

Like, I speak on this new media thing. And initially when I started speaking on it, everyone think I'm talking about like, oh, athletes doing media. Like, athletes been doing media. Like, I'm not the first athlete to do media. I have a podcast. But when I first started speaking to new media, the new media to me was, or is, like, going about media a certain way.

You know, like there used to be a term, as you know, called a homer in media. That term is non-existent anymore. Like, you see people on TV actually cheering for a team that they're critiquing against another team as if you're not a human being and you don't feel away about this person like that just doesn't come into play. Like, you can just push all lawyers' motions.

And so, like, the term Homer is no more, which I think is ridiculous because it doesn't allow you, it doesn't allow you to do unbiased journalism. Like, you can't give an unbiased opinion. You're giving me your boss. biased opinion, which, like, all right, it's one thing if your biased opinion is on basketball, but now these biased opinions are turning into character, characterized opinions.

And I don't like that. And so Dave McMinneman, who I don't really know from a can of paint, he says Russell Westbrook was a vampire in a locker room. Now, I'm sitting there listening to it, and I'm like, okay, that's strong. And then he just stopped. Now, I'm like, if you're going to say someone's a vampire in a locker room, A, that's something that someone has said to you. And I know how this business worked. They probably said it in past and like, man, I can see it.

Like somebody like, man, that vampire out of here. And then you run on TV and you say, they got rid of a vampire in the locker room. That's a character hit. That can affect his livelihood and his next job. So if you're going to say something like that, you better have example, A, B, C, D, and E to validate you calling that man a vampire in the locker room, right? And so that's been my whole thing like with media. Like, it's not what it used to be. It's not what it's intended to be.

So I agree 100% on the conversations that you're saying about like players interview and players because that's my number one goal. with this show. It's like, it's a safe space. If you say something in this interview and like, people, you're hearing now, but if you say something in this interview that's going to get you in truck, we're taking that shit out. Like, we're protecting each other. Like, I'm not about to put that out there just to get you, like, to get some clicks and get some people. Like, no, we're taking that out. Like, protect the guy. Because I look at it like this. If you protect someone, they'll always come back. I don't need to get some clicks on somebody else. Listen, I'm that, and I think that's what people started realizing too with me.

Like, you know, I'll have the T-O's, you know, he's a personality. Nick Young's, um, Fisdale, right? And, you know, they'll say some things and, you know, and then we get to really, like, gauge it. Like, what I want, what I want that clip to be out about me? Nah, he's, you know, he's trying to get a job, this and this. You know what? hey, the last 20 minutes cut it, right? Yeah.

There was a point where, you know, my man T.O., that's my man, and as a friend, you know, just not as a friend, like when Golden State was trying to get me back, I was on a private jet with T.O., right? So as a friend, you know, some of the comments he was making, I said, as a friend, I'm taking it out. And if you want to sit on your platform, okay, that's, you know what I mean?

But I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to. I'm not going to, it goes against our friendship. And if I allow this to go out just to go viral to get some clickings. So that's going out. We keep our friendship. I come on your show, you come on my show. And that's what athletes are doing.

And I think that's what the media, the old media is not really understanding. The athletes, we don't fuck with y'all like that. Yeah. Like we rock with each other. No matter what we say, we know we can call each other say, oh, my bad, you know, I was, I was just, I hooked up.

You know what I mean? We could do that. We could do that all the whole thing. Like, sometimes I'll say some, and I DM, hey, I would just, you know what I'll be? Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's respected. Yeah, I want to, I want you to understand where I was thinking. They might have came out wrong, but this is what I was thinking.

And, you know, and that's the space that athletes are starting to move in where they can trust, you know, the podcast is knowing that I have editing, you know, editing control. And whatever you don't like, hit me up. we'll remove it. Yeah, I think it's incredible. I think that's dope. I think that's what's made this space. Like, for me, it's what made, it's what made the space one that I really want to live in.

You know, because, and, you know, someone just said something to me yesterday. I practiced. He's an assistant GM of ours. He said, yo, I appreciate the way you're going about doing media because you're creating a lane for guys. because like guys don't see it anymore and be like oh you have to sell out like you have to say things that you really don't want to say you have to attack guys like you don't want to like

I know I can I can be very critical of Steph's game and not attack him like I can be very critical of Anthony Edwards the game Anthony Edwards have or the weak he's I can be very critical of that and not attack him And that's what we see a lot in media today.

And I just totally disagree with it. And so my goal is to change that. My goal is to make that style of journalism obsolete. Because media is becoming more and more prevalent. It's as accessible as it's ever been. And that will only continue to grow and become more and more accessible. And you just can't have people out here doing a lazy job. Like just attacking people, man, that's your tired.

Like, nobody want to hear that no more. Like, all the stuff we got going in the world, and you think I want to sit here and listen to you, attack someone character because they missed the jump shot. Like, we're not doing that. It was so funny. That's why, you know, with my new show, Gills Arena, I signed with Underdog Fantasy, right?

And my whole thing is, I wanted ESPN style, right, where it can be a bunch of us. We don't have to be in a suit. I don't have to tell you about the game wearing a suit and tie, okay? And I mean, we have the same format. So you can see I'm creating the same format, the same layout, talking sports without attacking character.

Yeah. Right. So even with Kyrie, I remember I was watching someone, and they were like, you know, I'm not going to attack the character. We're talking about the basketball play. So I'm, you know, I don't know. Let me see if he can actually know the difference. Right.

I want to see if he knows the difference. Absolutely. The person he's talking about character. You're talking about the man. You didn't say nothing about his, the basketball part of the player is, how does he come to practice? Is he practicing hard?

How does he get along with his teammates? When he gets on that court, is he performing, right? Like, you know, what's his practice habits? What is his eating habits? If you're going to say basketball, critique that part. Yeah.

Like when you start talking about, oh, he missed, you know, this because of, you know, COVID and that's personal. That's the man.

Yeah. That's the man. I want to know when he's between those lines, when you're talking about basketball, what is he doing? That's all I care about. I don't need the man part. That can figure itself out.

I'm judging this man part right here. And right here, I'm cool with it. You know, the rest of the stuff, that's not my problem. That's not my problem. He gets on the court.

How does he get along with his teammates? All right. He's at the end of the bench. Okay, he's shaking hands. Okay, he's cheering. I'm good. Yeah, absolutely. We understand that whole element.

We play. These guys haven't played. That's true. So they don't really know the difference between the two. Yes. They do, but they're just going to attack the character himself. Yes. They're not going to talk nothing about his skills or what he brings to the game itself.

Absolutely. Before we get out of here, I know I've taken a lot of your time, and I appreciate you. You mentioned Nick Young, who I had as a teammate won a championship with. I know y'all relationship, y'all super tight. I mean, swag fat as hell now. But initially getting out of the – like him being out of the league, you look at Dwight Howard now who's playing overseas. I think – and I just want to get your take on this,

someone who's done it at the highest level. Vets, the dying breed that is vets in the NBA, the effect that you, yourself thinks, has on the NBA. It's like I'll give you my opinion after, but just do you think the lack of vets in the NBA now is problematic for the league moving forward?

Yes, I really do think so because just like your vet, he was once young, right? So with this older guy, he's been there. He's understood, right? He's been a star. He had to sit the bench. He got booed at a serena. You know, he got fired. He's done, did every single thing where when a young player comes in,

like when I had John Wall, you know, and I, you know, me and Washington wasn't seeing an eye to hide. But that had nothing to do with me and John Wall relationship. You know, like John Wall, here, come to the closet, give you $100,000 worth of stuff. Don't spend your money. You don't need to spend your money, right? Don't try to, you know, match player for player on clothes and stuff like that, right? Right before I was leaving, you know, I'm telling them how to, you know, take the bus early, you know, go to sleep early.

You know, if you're going to party, you know, you're going to have to do this, this, this, you know, get into a routine. You know, practice is practice, but get yourself an in-season routine, learn how to be a pro, and do not accept winning. Winning is not something you accept, except, right? You let it affect you. Like, when you lose, like, if you start accepting it, you become a loser, right? Yeah, absolutely. What ends up happening, if you don't have a veteran telling the young stars how to be stars,

then what ends up happened, they're learning on the same, They're learning the same thing I learned when if you have a veteran, he takes away some of those pitfalls. Absolutely. They take away some of them pitfalls. So without that leadership to help the new generation, you just have the same cycle of things going on. No, I agree 100%.

I think, you know, when I look back like on my career, the value of vets that I had, Jared Jack, Jermaine O'Neill, Carl and Richard Jefferson, your ex-teamate. Yeah, yeah. Like, David Lee, like, Logan. Them my vets, David West. Yeah, oh, damn, dang, yeah, yeah, you got some good ones. Like, them, my first few years in the league, then my vets.

Mm-hmm. Those are the guys that taught me, Zazaa Pachia, my fifth year, fourth, four. Like, those are the guys that taught me how to take care of your body, how to act, what time you should be showing up. Mm-hmm. Fight this battle, don't fight that. battle. And like at the end of the day, I'm a grown man. I'm still pick and choose my own battles, but to have that guidance, like you look around some of these teams now, like, Houston don't have a vet. No. But they got these promise, all this promising young talent with no veteran

leadership. Or you look at a OKC, they don't have a vet. No one to teach him. No one to teach him. So they're all learning. They're all learning. And that's the, they're all learning on the fly, learning bad habits, you know, losing, laughing, thinking it's going, like, that's, you know, a veteran, you know, like somebody like, uh, uh, uh, uh, UD, right? Absolutely. You know, you know, UD has been there so long that, you know, when he speaks, when he does speak, you, you're going to listen.

Absolutely. Right? You're, you're going to listen no matter what. So, you know, I think, like, having, you know, two vets on your team, even on a bench. Like, it's like, you know, there's 52 people on benches now. You know, they got as many assistant coaches that they got players, you know, start bringing some of these stars back. Yeah.

Because you got to remember. I think somehow they think a star player hasn't grown up. So if I take Eileen I put him around my young guy, he's still going to be. the 20-year-old Alan Iverson. Like, no, he's learned. He's seen where his career, what happened to his career. He's going to guide this man. Like, hey, no, no, no, no, we're not going to do it.

That's what I was the, like, you know what I mean? You have those guys that they had pitfalls. Let them teach these guys where not to have that pitfall at. You know what I mean? And, you know, like, you know, I can talk to a John Moran and be like, hey, man, you know, to move up in this world. we have to pick our friends wisely. Right?

We can't take everybody to the picnic. Absolutely. You know what I mean? So you pick the guys that can handle themselves in this picnic in these rooms. You know what I mean? There's friends you hang out with at home.

There's friends you hang out with in the room rooms. Pick them. Yeah. Accordingly. Yeah. Like, I mean, because your company, you show me your company, I can show you where you're going to end up

facts you know what there's some point you don't want to be getting your name ring because of something one of your friends did so you know what I mean you know you still got to be young but still be mindful of you know the things they have to be as professional as you they have to protect your brand also they're going to hang with you they need to pretend their youth and protect the brand also they need to protect your brand almost more than you protect it yes because they also have to protect you from yourself. Yeah, from you. Yeah, exactly. In this position. Good friends, good friends, yeah. Good friends are like, you're trying to go to the club and I'm like, no, man, you're not, no, not the night, man.

Like, let's get on out of here. You know what I mean? You know what I'm trying to drive, take my keys. They don't care about, they don't care about ruffling your feathers. Yes. You know what, that's just going to be yes, man. Yeah, absolutely. Man, before we get out of here, I know you watch a bunch of NBA basketball,

who you got taking home to MVP this year. who you got winning in the championship. And I got, you know, you know, right now, I think Yolkich is leading because they're number one, playing, having that triple double season. You know, Embed is doing what M.B. does.

I mean, he's most likely going to be runner up. If Jason Taneum's not runner up, Greek the Freak is always somewhere in the mist. Absolutely. It's always something there. But, you know, I think Yolkitch, they finished off strong and he continues to, you know, have this triple double year. It's going to be a great, great storyline, you know.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. When it comes to the championship, it's no different than how you guys came into the playoffs, right? Mm-hmm. Whoever clicks the best when time comes. I don't know if anyone has put themselves in a situation yet where they're, dominant. Denver's good.

No one's afraid of it. No. No one is like, oh, Denver first round. No one's, you know, so right now there's no real team that says, all right, that is a for sure, you know, dark horse take home. Yeah. You know, Katie changes things over in Sons. It's like when he came to you guys. You guys already had the infrastructure. You're just adding another piece.

versus, you know, what Brooklyn happened, all three new pieces trying to figure out how they're going to do it. So I want to see how the first week of, you know, him and the sons look. But for the most part, it doesn't seem like there's a real dominant. So it's basically whoever clicks at the right time, you know, coming into the playoffs is, you know,

you know, it's all seeding too. Yeah. Yeah. It's all seating. You know what I mean? It's, you know, that team that when they get into the playoffs and everybody's healthy, everybody's clicking,

you're looking at a sixth seed that was the champion's last year. That's like, hey, we back. We back, you know what I mean? So it's, it's, it's, it's, you always got to be mindful, look at the, like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, just watch it. You know what I mean?

I just watch and see, all right, who matches up. All right. Okay. Like, hey, okay, if this is their role, this might be, you know, you know, you start watching like that. So it's like, we still have about two weeks

before we can start seeing what's playing out. Absolutely. Oh, man, one more question. I'm sorry. Why, why does European players not get the same flag for winning championships or not than U.S. American-born guys? For instance, I saw a list today, Stephen A. put out.

And it was like, players under the most pressure to win a championship. I think James Hard was one, C.P. was two. Jason Tatum was three. Joker was four. Joker has two MVPs. Joker has two MVP, more than likely about to be a third MVP. And he's older than JT.

Mm-hmm. Why is it that he's fourth, but JT's third? And Luca wasn't even on the list, right? Like, now, obviously, Lucas, a little younger than JT. But I feel like over the years, European players has not had the same, caught the same flat. I went in a championship as U.S. players, and I don't understand that. And I wanted to know if you feel the same way about that. It's really a knock, to be honest.

do they think that they're even capable of winning it by themselves? Do they hold them to the greatness of what they hold the American players to? Right? So when you have a Luca, when you have Yokic, at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, they're good European players are coming over, they're dominating. but do we hold them to the same standard? So it's like they get a free, they get a free easy pass.

Right? They get a free easy pass versus, you know, someone, you know, you know, you know what I'm about. It's the, it might be the color of the skin a little bit, you know what I mean? You know, I got to remember, the American white boy is gone.

They adapted the black side of the game, right? They adopted the athletic part of the game, so they don't have the same fundamentals that they used to have. You know what I mean? So when you name, when I see, oh, the white players, and then you put Luke in there, like, that's European. Stop. I'm on to you.

You can't say, you know, he's competing with Larry Bird. No, no, no, no, no. That's Hayward, that's Caruso. That's that group. Yeah, absolutely. You know, so I think, you know, trying to find a way to ease the Europeans in to make it a broader game. And I don't think they want to really give them that, that umph yet.

But we're mentally built for it right now. You know, the jury is still out on the Europeans. You know, I mean, you know, we see Luca amazing, dirt, amazing, Asia, amazing. The ones that came over have been amazing. Right. But they need to start understanding that there's a lot from everywhere. There's a lot now.

I mean, you can really put an All-Star game together the overseas versus the American. Yeah. You can really do that now. You know what I mean? Because you'd be surprised who's from who's not American. Absolutely. Like, so, like Shea is not American. Yeah.

Yeah. You can really have an all-star game where it's so, you know what I mean? You need to play it down the middle now, you know, give the same respect to them as you do us, which means you have to put the same type of responsibility on them. Just like, there's no way JT's supposed to be in this conversation right now. No, that, wah, why? Yeah. You know, he's 24 and 25 years old.

Absolutely. It's like Jalen Brown is older than him, but you put more. It's like, shut out. But that's, you know, but that's what media does. Yeah. You know, they're trying to sit through up so you can fail. No, 100%. 100%.

And like I said, I can agree with you 100%. Like these Europeans today, Luca, Joker, Janus, although Janus accomplished defeat, Joel, like, and Joel's African, but just, you know, from another continent. Like these, these guys, they're real guys. And they like, These guys are top 10 guys in our league.

Like, majority of the top five, but they top 10 guys in our league. And I think, I didn't even think about it from the perspective of you saying, like, it's a knock. Like, I didn't even think about that, but what I will say is whoever is knocking them, at some point you got to stop.

Like, these guys are as good as anyone in the league, if not better. and if the thing is, oh, it's a knot and we don't hold them to that standard, that got to go. Because... And by the way, I think Luca wants to be held to that standard.

I think... Greatest does. We know Yonis wants to be held. So I think these guys want to be held to that standard. And I also think, again, talking about it from a journalism standpoint, but honesty, we need that back in this business. Not a narrative.

Not a narrative of we don't, no, we're not going to put, no, no, no, we need honesty. We need the truth back in this business because that is what ultimately helps grow this game. And that helps you. It helps myself. It helps everybody involved and who is touched by the game with basketball. So that's something that I hope to see. I appreciate your perspective on that because it definitely.

gave me a different, a totally different perspective that I haven't thought about. But, uh, man, like, like, as, as a, as a, as a, as a player, like, like, you're, you're more like, like, you're more controlled in your media space as a player. People don't realize that with someone who has their own, I would have, oh, I would have been, I would have been, I would have been, I would have been fired my ass. I would, I would, I would win live. I would doing live playing. Just like, you know, like NBA mic you up. I'm liking myself up.

Absolutely. I'm liking myself up and I'm doing it, you know, myself. Like, I would have tried that. You know what I mean? I would have tried that. I would have tried some goofy shit like that. You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, I don't need to play the footage now.

Yeah. That's true. I can hold it. I can hold it. It's my footage. I can be in the game doing my thing and hold that footage. Right? So I would have tried that.

So, you know, watching you, like, you know, you're responsible. I appreciate that. Thank you. You're responsible. And, you know, me, with, hey, underdog fantasy, we talked about it. You know what I mean? Like, he's an active player that he has real-time information. He has real access right now.

So he has a better, you got to remember, we're dealing with secondary information. He has A1 information. Right now, real time can tell you the game to tell you how he's feeling. That's more important. So I've already tried to send him your way. I've already to send him your way because I'm like, it's, it's, it, it, when he's done, they're going to, they're going to buy the podcast, they're going to do whatever. Someone's coming because he's just too good at what he does. I appreciate that. You know what I mean? Absolutely. you, man. I've been, obviously, I've been a big fan since, you know, watching you play the game at Arizona, then to the Golden State Warriors with Jay Rich, you know, Jay Rich from Saginaw, so I was always watching the Warriors and just follows your career. Then also, you in the media space, I think very admirable how you speak your mind. And from a very intelligent place, like, you know, people can say what they want to feel what they want about what you have to

say, but they can't call you dumb. And that's the first thing people try to do when you speak your mind. You know, it's try to discredit your knowledge, discredit how smart you are. And so I have a huge appreciation for who you are, for what you've done. Like I said, how you went right into that space and showed other guys how to navigate that. I appreciate it. I thank you for coming on the show.

Much love, bro. And if nobody else ain't giving you your flowers, like I said at the very beginning, And I watched you play, but also just hearing from several people that I respect their basketball at mine. Like one of the best players they ever seen, bro. Oh, thank you, man. Appreciate it. Hey, man, when you, uh, when you're free in the summer and you ain't got shit to do, come on down. I come chop it up for show for show.

Hey, you see the golden state colors. Absolutely. I'm coming to chop it up for sure. Uh, thank you, man. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you, bro.