The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show - Jalen Rose

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Jalen Rose joins ‘The Draymond Green Show’ to discuss his experience being a pioneer of active NBA players doing media, what it’s like to open up a charter school, why finishing his college degree was important, why he and the Fab 5 feel under appreciated by Michigan, who he’s picking for NBA MVP and Finals matchup, and how his lack of a relationship with his father impacted him. Produced by: Jackson Safon #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. The Draymond Green Show is presented by Fandul. The NBA season, kicking into gear, baby, no better place to get in on the action than Fandul. Fandul app is safe. You get paid fast. A lot of ways to play. The spread, the money line, team totals, players, props, a lot of stuff. Over unders.

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Terms may apply. Again, create an account into the code green. That's G-R-E-E-N for $20 off. No matter where you live, get out and have some fun this week. Download Game Time today. Last minute tickets. lowest price guaranteed what's up everybody welcome back to the draymond green show i am excited to have this next guess um in my opinion the founding father of the fad five the leader um the person who

really embodied that spirit now as you know i can't really be too fond of that being that it's from the other school however you know you grow up in the state of michigan really you grow up anywhere and you watch basketball. If you know anything, you knew something about to five-five. And obviously growing up in the state of Michigan, it's all right there. From Detroit, Southwestern High School to 13th pick in the NBA draft by the Denver Nuggets, Jalen Rose, my brother, more like an uncle of mine. I appreciate you for coming on.

Welcome to the show. Appreciate the love. You killing it. Keep doing your thing. Absolutely. I appreciate you. I mean, just getting right into it. I get a lot of credit for being the first active player doing TV.

That's actually you. It's actually you. How did you go about way back, I think in 2006, you did the playoffs. You were still playing. How did you go about way back then saying, I'm going to start doing media right now as an active player? So the crazy thing is, Like growing up in the city, being a fan of the game, looking up to the bad boys, looking up to Magic Johnson, but also my favorite athletes have personality.

They were flamboyant. They not only dress loud like Dionne Sanders or Clive Frazier, but they also talk loud like Muhammad Ali. And those voices is something that I always appreciated following Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell and just how. they were athletes, but they were more than jocks. And so when I got to college, when it was time to pick a major, I wanted communications to be that. So radio TV film became my major. And I took those classes at Michigan, went there three years,

eventually went back and got my degree. So while I was playing in the league, and it's crazy how this works, I remember feeling like, like, you're a good point. player, but you ain't magic. You know what I'm saying? And that hit me one day. Like, you got a chance to do this for a while, but you need to find something else to do.

You know what I'm saying? And my first couple of years starting and coming off the bench and then getting trade to Indiana where Larry Brown gave me 15 DMPs, I was like, I don't know if I'm going to have a 13-year career. So I started to figure other things that I could do. the game that I love. And once I got traded from the Pacers to the Bulls, it was February this time of the year.

And the team had nine wins. And I'm like, we ain't going to the playoffs for show. So this was 2002. I reached out to a contact at BT Mad Sports because I had just done the show and I had just done 106 in part. And I pitched the idea for BET to let me cover the finals for them. at the time it was New Jersey Nets and the Lakers.

I was like, just send the camera. I'll get the access. I'll do all of that. So they trusted me, they did it. So they sent the cameras. We cut it, we spiced it, we edited it, they showed it on TV. And then I pitched that same idea

to the best damn sports show the next year. And they already had big bro John Sally who was doing TV. And at the time, Jason Williams from the Nets, I saw him doing some stuff with NBC while he was still playing. And Ahmad Rashad, I saw him kind of more from doing football to doing basketball. So those are guys. I was like, you know what?

I'm about to try to do this while I'm playing. So they hired me. So I was in the league 2003 to 2007 planned while I was still working for Best Dance Sports Show, MTV Movie Awards. I was doing halftime with Bill Walton and Snapper. was doing boxing for top rank. I was doing all of that stuff. And so when I retired in 2007,

and I was doing sideline for T&T. I worked for T&T for a couple of years. The famous video, Nick Van Naxe with my brother throwing the towel at me when I was standing on the sideline, and I just kept going. And so in 2007, when I retired, that's when I started working full-time for ESPN.

That's... I actually didn't even know about all the BET stuff, so I appreciate that. I think when I started this podcast last year, and maybe a little different because I was doing it after game, but I caught a lot of heat for actively doing a podcast and providing the content that I was providing during the finals, during the finals, I caught a lot of heat for it.

When you first started doing that, did you catch a lot of heat? And I know it was different, but it wasn't social media and all of that stuff, but did you catch heat for that when you first started doing it? Absolutely. Because as you know, in order to be colorful and or good at this job, that mean you've got to say something. There's a lot of people that's vanilla and don't say nothing. But you and I are strong will, strong opinion,

and we ain't scared to stand on it. And what ends up happening is why you still plan, I'm still running into these players, into these coaches, into the managers, into the agents, and the fans also. And so guys used to sometimes take it personal. Oh, man, how are you going to call me out like that or whatever? I'm like, dog, you had six points and eight turnovers. Like, what you expect me to say?

You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. And what ends up happening is people start to earn your, you started to earn the respect of the players and of the coaches and of everybody. When they know when you speak, not only are you knowledgeable, but it ain't personal. Like, I ain't got nothing personal against you. I'm just saying what I see,

giving my opinion. When you do poor, I'm going to say it. When you do great, I'm going to big you up. And I know you notice this quick. You can big up people all day and they never shout you. They never say thank you. They never give love.

But soon as you criticize them or call them out for some BS that they did, then they want to add you. Then they want to get butt hurt. And so that's when I learned at that time, I'm going to just stay authentic, be authentic to myself. And when I started to do that, I started to see me get results. You know, one of the things that I wanted to do, especially that I'm actively playing,

is I felt like I needed to find a balance of, like, authenticity and telling the truth and being very critical. But doing it in a way where, like, I still got to play these guys. I still have to play possibly with some of these guys. Right. And I felt like that was one of the biggest things that I, adjustments that I had to make and go on in the TV right now. And I spoke about this before.

One instant that made me really happy because it was actually my first time doing T&T. I was doing the segment and we were doing the Denver Nuggets game. They were in the playoffs. It was during the bubble. and Joker and I pointed out his defense that he's the low man, he's the back,

he's the center, he has to be everybody eyes, he has to be the communication, he has to cover up everybody mistakes if somebody breaks down the defense and he was missing his rotations and so I pointed it out on TV and I tried to do it in a way of like not bashing him

but letting the world know like this is an issue and when I'm, I saw him the following year. He said to me, said, hey, I saw your comments about my defense. I've gotten better and I appreciate it. It gave me so much confidence in TV, like in doing TV. Like, oh, so I can do it. It gave me so much confidence.

That was a very huge moment for me. That is huge. That is huge. But here's what you also know, and you know this balance. Anytime you see a player doing this job, we only really say, like 40% of what we really know. Facts. You know, like, we know everything.

So it's like if I'm on TV and I'm talking about somebody had a bad game, I know what they was at last night. I know who they was with. I know what time they got out. As a matter of fact, I probably was with them. You see what I'm saying? So now when I'm on TV,

if I'm speaking on what happened in the game, they know it ain't personal, but they know I ain't saying, everything that I could say. And that's what the Joker felt about you. He saw you breaking it down and giving knowledge, but it wasn't like you was trying to clown him or disrespect him. And so that to me is when I started to draw the line

because I don't like media members that name call. And so I remember when I was making my bones and I was doing first take and I was doing the show with Skip Bayless. I used to sit back and take notes and it's a debate show so I'm like, wait a minute, he's calling Chris Bosch Spice? Like, this is really happening?

Like, that bugged me out. You know what I'm saying? And so I'm like, all right, I'm going to have some material ready for this dude because if he come at me like that, I got the jab, I got the head shot, I got the body blow, I got whatever he's going to need

because I don't like the name. calling. I think that went too far. Like I seen him do this recently with Dak Prescott when he had just lost a family member, I believe, and he was dealing with some issues. And homie was like basically saying, I don't care about his mental wellness. And so those are

the examples for me that give us a different level of credibility that can never be matched because we can be authentic and say a portion of what we know without saying too much, but yet know what not to say to make it personal. And speaking of that, I always talk about this term, new media and old media. And quite frankly, people has always assumed that when I say new media, I'm talking about basketball players, current players, or like, it's this actual thing of new media.

And the reality is, when I speak of new media, I'd be speaking of a way of going about the job. because I think the way people used to go about the job and the way people go about it today, it's totally different. And so I speak of new media, and I always say, like, it's truth-telling. It's being up front and honest. You know, it's actually analyzing the game

and not just going with this stat sheet and saying, oh, man, this guy played bad because he missed shots. Like, no, he could have played an incredible game and missed those shots, you know? And so when I speak about new media, but there is also this new way of doing things, and then there are the Skip Baylaces of the world

that are old media. Like, it's tired, it's all of it. What do you make of new media and also, but player-driven media as opposed to the old-fashioned way of media and kind of how we're seeing a change of the guard, not in a sense because there's still a space for that, but there's a space for both.

What do you make of that whole thing? The thing I make of it, first off, is I love the term, and it reminded me, like, this is my 20th year covering the finals, right? And so what ends up happening is when you come onto the scene and you say the term new media, it reminded me of like an old school rapper, for example, or somebody that had been out for a while and then somebody else coming to the game and people try to put us against each other. I saw that happen when LeBron started his school.

And if I'll be on TV and I'm like, yo, LeBron did this, they lost a game or whatever, whatever. People be like, oh, he's just jealous because LeBron started a school. I'm like, I want all people to give back to their community and start a school. I'm not quote unquote jealous because his school got more hype. Like he's one of the most famous people to ever walk to earth. Like, I'm happy that he did it because now it's almost like this. Michael Jackson wasn't the first person to do to Moonwalk.

He popularized it. And that's what LeBron now can do for people like me when he starts to school. It's the same thing when you say new media. People's coming to me like, what Trayman talking about? You was doing that 20 years ago. I'm like, first off, that's family. We ain't even doing that. Second off, he's right.

And what you're talking about is the ability, A, to articulate the game and be unapologetic. See, at first when we got into this gig, kind of had to walk on eggshells. There was times where, fam, I stopped wearing earrings because they was frowned upon. I always wore long sleeves because tattoos wasn't necessarily welcome. I wore my hair a certain way. I always wore a tie in the blazer because the game was different then. Now, for me, new media is saying what you feel, dressing how you feel, driving how you want to whip,

and then having a way to articulate yourself that you're speaking the language of the people that you play with. See, when you see me, I'm rocking what y'all rocking. I'm listening to the music that you're listening to. And so for me is it's up to the guys that's been doing it a long time to stay current, not the other words. way around. And so when I saw CJ get eliminated with Portland and he was covering y'all, I pulled nephew to the side. We got numbers. We exchanged. I remember when he got drafted,

I said that he was going to be that. Same with JJ Reddick, saying whatever. And so the more of us they get into it and the more we support one another, that now changes the entire narrative when we're all pulling together and we're all saying it. Absolutely. I agree 100%. You just spoke about school. I got a couple questions about school. Number one, the Jalen Rose Charter Academy. How did you get into starting that? And what do you need to continue to make that the success has been,

but also continue to take it to new heights because you've continued to get it better and better and make it better and improving it. But what do you need to continue to take that to new heights to get these kids the opportunities that you've been afforded? So you and I from the hood hood. And like when you be out there balling, there's a reason why I be singing Saginaw Pride

since the day you got drafted because I remember you in high school and in college and I know where you're from. And when you come from what we come from, you know the difference is money. The quality of your education, unfortunately in the United States is defined by your zip code. And it ain't just education.

It's the protection from the police. If you make a 911 call, it's fire, it's deserts where you can't get a quality supermarket. When you're in the hood, it's fast food, funeral homes, flower shops, gas stations, party stores. That's what we see. We see depression. We see poverty. And so I was like, how can I give back to my community? And I'm going to be frank with you.

in the way where mass media and people who don't look like me can't block me. Even if they don't want me to do what I'm doing, when I say I'm doing it for the sake of education, even if they're not going to give me a dime, and even if they don't want to see me educating the kids that I'm educating, they can't say it out loud. It's almost like when white people listen to rap music,

At some point, when you say in the lyrics, you're going to say all of the lyrics. That's a fact. You're going to say all of the lyrics. You just got to watch where you're saying them, right? And so I realized that inner city students in Detroit were getting like $8,000 a year while their suburban counterparts were getting double that. And then the families who are fortunate enough to put their kids in private school, that costs like $40,000 a year.

Absolutely. And you can start doing that K through two or three years, K through one or two. So now that's like a $500,000 investment in that student or the suburban student that's like a $250,000 investment where the students from my community were only getting like $96,000. So how do I put them in position to compete for the same jobs, for the same careers, for the same opportunities and put themselves in position to be successful? I'm going to start a school. Open enrollment, tuition-free, public charter. I'm not a part of a network. I don't test students in before ninth grade.

I don't test students in after ninth grade. And here's the kicker. United States don't look at us like we're cute and cuddly when we're high school anymore. A lot of times when people want to influence us, they want to do it when we small. Because you still got parental involvement. is you acting out in class, I could call your parents. But when you get in ninth grade,

these young people have been exposed to life. Sex, drugs, violence, gangs, poverty. And so these relationships are a lot different when they're on social media now. They know what WWW is and they can go anywhere in the world. So we're influencing 400 high school students and I'm influencing another 600

in what we call secondary education. So I'm influencing them in a model called 9 through 16. Because after 12th grade, just think about it. What does your high school do for you? Nothing. Nothing. But the job ain't done. If I just came from poverty and I just graduated from high school,

I'm throwing my hat in the air, but I can't put my resume nowhere and get a gig. Absolutely. So now I'm helping those students in community college, trade school, military, four-year college, and now we're helping them be in position to be successful in life. So the thing that we need is money and awareness. And I'm continuing to try to do that.

And I'm really proud of what we've accomplished over 12 years. We're fundraising right now to expand our facility. I took over a middle school, converted it into a high school. And sadly, our basketball team has never played a home game because I took over an elementary school. And when you look at our budget, I'm the founder, I'm the president of the board, I'm the chief fundraiser, and shout to my co-founder, Michael Carter, shout to all of my board members, the founding team. Our students, our staff is amazing. Our school leader, Principal Lewis, our parents, they all believe in my vision.

And so now for me, it's to expand the facility so I can get three more classrooms. I want to create a health and wellness space for mental health. I want to create a space for yoga where young people can be stretching and getting exposed to things while they're in the building. And I want to have a gym so that now when people come play college games

or high school tournaments or pro teams or whatever, we have the kind of facility that they can come enjoy. So you took over in elementary school. There's been 30 high schools in Detroit clothes. Correct. Are you not able to get actually?

access to those buildings that they've closed down? I'm about to give you some game that people don't know about education. First off, I remember trying to open the school, and this was a political cycle that people were going back and forth about public school, charter school, magnet school. I'm like, first off, I don't care what kind of school they go to. You can homeschool them. I'm just trying to put them in position to have a quality school to go to. And then there were people like, well, charter schools are still students from the public schools.

News flash, a charter school is a public school. That's just cap. And why do people say that? Because one of the largest donors of the Democratic Party is the teachers union. And so why is that so important to both of those things? because if you're part of the union, you get something called tenure as a teacher. That means you could go to school for two or three years

and basically never get fired. And that has nothing to do with your results. But when you go to a charter school, you give up your tenure opportunity. And so that's what they're fighting against. And then they're also fighting against the numbers of students that are in a public school building, that you're talking about.

You ready for this? Because a public school building is gifted. A charter school building, we get zero state funding for the facility. Zero. Not for improvements. Not for expansion. Nothing.

If something happens with the boiler at the school right now, if something happens with a light bulb at the school right now, my phone ringing. Wow. You see what I'm saying? And so that's one of the dirty secrets about education is that we get zero state funding for our facility. And so therefore, that's why writing and raising

and me creating awareness for the school is so very important. That's incredible. I'm going to see y'all a $25,000 check in these next couple weeks. That's low. I'll give with my financial team and get that out. Thank you. I think it's absolutely amazing.

Like the amount of, like me, you personally the amount of time that you give to that like I've seen you at times where you're front rate and you hustling like yo I need to go raise this money for these kids like you really hustling yeah going to do that I got so much respect for you thank you appreciate it because I think that's absolutely amazing but continuing on along the lines of school you said you ended up going back to finish your degree why was this so important for you to go back you're jalen rose you're the 13th pick you're going into TV like why was it? Was it so important for you to go back and finish your degree?

Because school was actually always important to me. I never wanted to be considered a dumb jock. I hated that term. I used to see people get called that. And I was like, I'm going to make sure nobody ever called me that. And then you know the whole stigma, like, oh, you play athlete, you're an athlete, you talented. So now people hooking you up with your grades or people doing your work for you. that type of stuff. So then I was like, you know, I started to take pride. And one of the funny

things that happened in high school is I got a chance to take some accelerated classes because I was an honor roll student. And I heard that if you got a certain GPA and your attendance was this, that you got a chance to meet a special guest that was going to come to the school at the end of the year for a seminar. And then I found out that guest was a guest was a special guest. And then I found out, that guest was Irvin Magic Johnson. Oh, wow. Right? So I couldn't be on the basketball team,

an All-American, and Magic come to the school, and I can't go to the gym and see him. That part. You know what I'm saying? That would not have been a good look. So I really started to buckle down on my academics. Same when I was in Michigan,

was a dean's list student at Michigan. And so at that point, I don't went to school for three years. in the middle of winter, you know it's cold outside. I might as well finish. Absolutely. I might as well finish at that point. I'm in the league taking correspondence courses.

I'm like, I'm going to finish. And Michigan at the time, in this show on my age, wasn't even offering the classes I needed to allow me to graduate unless I went on campus. I'm like, I can't go on campus. So I eventually took my courses online at the University of Maryland University college. And that's actually where I got my degree from. Wait, so your degree today is not from the University of Michigan.

Correct. They didn't even offer the classes that I needed. And I love Michigan. And I hope somebody hear this. They should be getting at me to give me some sort of honorary degree and putting the banners back up. Like, I go to games, ma'am. I go ahead. Right. They didn't offer the classes that I needed. Just so you know. Just so we're clear, mistake you made in life,

that would have never happened at Michigan State. I'm just saying, it would never happen at State. That's ridiculous. You know what? I know. And let me just be real with you. You know I love is.

Absolutely. And I took a visit to Michigan State. I looked up to Magic. I looked up to Steve Smith, six, eight big guards. Motor City Smithy. No doubt. I idolized them. But I couldn't turn down the chance to be the fifth member of the FAB 5.

That part. That's why I changed my number. I didn't wear 5 in high school. I wore 42. I changed my number because I was the fifth member of the FavFIA to sign. That's why I changed my number. That's interesting. Because like I said, it's almost like you took it over, though.

Like the 5-5, it became your thing. But it would make sense because you essentially made it the 5-5. Yes. But that's, I find that very interesting. So a lot of laws have changed in United States of America. Drug laws have changed. We've seen people that you and I know who had life in prison, and get out because laws changed

and they're no longer subject to that time. The things that y'all got in trouble for, kids can now do. No problem. They can make money off their likeness. They got endorsement deals. There's kids in college making a million dollars a year, which I'm happy about, like, get your money.

It's great. I want to talk to you about the NIL too. But now that making money is legal in college, why hasn't those banners gone back up if you're being punished as I was thinking about this about you guys 5 5 I was thinking about this about Reggie Bush like these

are y'all work to become the 55 and accomplish which y'all accomplished reggie bush worked and it got snatched away because some poor kids needed some money now that those laws have changed why haven't all of those banners going back up

so and by the way that's a Michigan thing at that point not an NCAA thing, because they can do it right now. Just like UMass did it for Coach Cal and Memphis did, just like Maurice Claret at Ohio State. They could do it right now. For whatever reason, it just hasn't happened. And now that Joanne's leading the program,

I have faith that it will happen. But to be honest, I probably shouldn't say this, but it's true. Since we didn't win it, I don't really care about those banners. I feel like it should be one banner with all of our numbers on it. Or like retire our numbers or like give us a statue or something. Like truly immortalized what we've done. And when you talk about what we got disciplined for, let me tell you it was crazy. it was a thing that's happened in sports

because it's a remnant of slavery and I know as soon as I say this, people that don't look like us sometimes shoulder shrug and like, oh, here we go. But here's what happens. The black sports predominantly football and basketball, you're put in a position as an athlete where they can profit off of you longer

and you get paid less. if you notice in tennis, in golf, in NASCAR, in hockey, and gymnastics, whatever, golf, whatever other sports, it ain't no restrictions after high school. Ain't no restrictions. They can have sponsors, they can go play, they can do what they love, and they can earn money. And by the way, you've been on a college campus. Just because you wasn't getting paid, guess what? The people from the student council was.

Absolutely. They was getting paid. Other students could have jobs. So the remnants of those sports make it to where they can profit off of us as long as possible while paying us the lease. And so when you have a high profile team like UNLV or John Thompson's teams at Georgetown that all of a sudden play with an attitude, oh man, we got to muzzle them. we got we got to allow them to perform but we don't want our kids dressing and looking like them like I remember being one of the most hated athletes

now Jalen is a common name like literally and so what happens is it's one thing for Ray it's one thing for Jalen Chris and Jawan to go on and play long careers in the NBA and make the kind of coins that we did it break my heart when I look at UNLV and Anderson Hunt, the Final Four MVP didn't profit off of his likeness.

Or Jimmy King and Ray Jackson, members of the Fab Five, Haratchis were a shoe that we popularized. We popularized black socks. They didn't even sell black socks at the mall. Imagine if we had the trademark for long shorts. Yeah. Imagine if we had the trademark for four.

Fab five did. You see what I'm saying? And so with all of that taking place, it just hurts me that those gentlemen ain't able to profit off of what blood, sweat, and tears that they've been able to do. But I know, it makes me smile that the young people now can

because I remember being a champion for that for like 30 years. And people looking at me like, oh, you should just be happy. You got a scholarship. If I had a scholarship, I would da-la-da-la. No, but you ain't talented and making the school money and therefore they're profiting off of you and selling your jersey and selling tickets and doing all of that

and making money off the shoe company. You know this. You sign a letter of intent. You might as well sign a shoe deal. You can't go to Michigan State and wear whatever, wear whatever. You got to wear whatever. You can't. And here's the dirty secret about the NIL. It ain't true market value. Here's why. none of your sponsors can compete with the ones that the school already have. And they got the best ones.

Correct. Correct. So they are already getting top dollar from the radio, from TV, from the advertising, from the shoe company. And so now you can get like, all right, you know,

we'll get you something at the local gym. You know what I'm saying? We'll get you a, we're going to get you a membership for the next 12 months, that type of stuff. But we've seen some quarterbacks you know, get paid, and the young lady

page buckets from Connecticut get paid. There's been some individuals, but for the most part, if you notice in totality, it ain't become the mushroom effect for players getting paid to then want to go play in college. Like the headline is because you're really getting the secondary market for the sponsors. Turn every Thursday into payday with TNT Thursdays

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Win or lose with TNT Thursdays. Exclusively on Fandall Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. I think when I look at the NIL, like I said, it's great that these kids are making money. But that, for instance, I think it's a huge thing that will probably have learned long-term effects that guys don't realize or not even guys, just students in general, guys, girls. And that is this. If, which they are,

you're not allowed to partner with the premium brands essentially because they're going to be. In East Lansing, the top brands are going to be a sponsor of Michigan State. Correct. Of the school, before and after you. Absolutely.

So in most of these college towns, I mean, where most of these, colleges are college towns. So it's in East Lansing. It's in Ann Arbor. It's a blah, blah, blah, blah. You endorse these

second tier, third tier brands for a year, or two, three or four years. Your name becomes synonymous with that brand. Say you then go on to the NFL, you go on to the NBA. Your name

is synonymous with second tier brands. If I'm Mercedes-Benz, I'm not coming to give you a deal. You don't have a premium brand. So why would I come give you, why would I come give you a deal? And you, you, you haven't been in line with premium brands. And I think that's something that, that's one of the effects of, of the NIL that we've yet to really see because it's so fresh. But I'm interested in seeing if people will find if that will happen. And that's a great point. And that's why like, imagine the revenue

streams that the coaches get. They get money from TV. from radio, from the school, from the shoe company, endorsements, and appearances. Just give us that. Absolutely. Right? Imagine if these schools had a shoe brand that was sponsoring them. It's X amount of football players on the team, say 100.

Is X amount of players on the basketball team say 15, if the school getting $150,000, $200 million, why each player can't get a million? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I agree. 100%.

The school can do that. They're choosing not to. They're not sharing their revenue stream from their premium endorser with their student athletes. And also, they can't say it out loud, but they're still coaches. don't even want the players to get that.

It's still coaches in college football, basketball, all of these sports that still don't want the players to profit off of their name, image and likeness. And that's crazy. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. And like, you talk to those coaches, you know, they'll speak on the challenges that it presents. But a challenge that's presented, if you don't have that,

is how are these kids eating? how are these kids families eat and all of those things so I think you know no matter what you can look at it from both sides but in speaking

of you know these schools or the NCAA in general I think it's time that we get rid of this amateurism work so it's no longer amateurism these guys are now

they're making money off their name image and likeness which is great like you're getting some money. And for majority of these kids, and like you just talked about Anderson Hunt, like you just talked about Ray and Jimmy, for majority of these kids,

they won't be in a position that will be in. That'll be the most money they'll ever make. Correct. From basketball. Now, whether you go on and do something down the road, that's a totally different thing. But from basketball, that'll be the most money that they'll ever make.

And for these schools and the NCAA, not like I felt like the NIL for the NCAA was just a cop out for everybody to shut up and say it's just for everyone to stop saying let's pay these athletes and guess what I am guilty of this too because I was very outspoken about athletes getting paid and sure enough they did the NIL and I shut up too I shut up too I remember being on TV the day the ruling got paid and I literally stood on the table like I am not about to bust my arm patting myself on the back for being a champion of the NIL happening because of my voice because all that is is a band-aid. Yeah. That's all that is. The true money is if I can make money off my name, image, and likeness, or I can make money with the school.

Absolutely. The school got the money. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? I can't use their logo. At all. At all. But the block M is very synonymous with Jaylon Rose for Fad 5.

Correct. No question. Very synonymous. If you took the Block M right now and sold 5Five gear, it's sell out like that. Yes, absolutely. Or they'll sue me so fast I wouldn't get a job. chance to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's what the athletes are kind of realizing, which is why people aren't lining up to necessarily go playing college no more. They go into the G league. They're going overseas. It's players just like, I'd rather just work out for a year and enter the draft versus going to college and be a part of that system. That's what this has become.

Absolutely. Jay, I know you've got to get out of here. We haven't spoke NBA at all. Just a couple NBA questions. Number one, who is your MVP this year? Who will walk with the MVP? And number two, who do you think the finals come down to when it's all set and done this year? So a couple of things.

And I'm really fortunate to be an actual voter. And I vote for all of the NBA awards. I just recently did an all-star ballot. And as somebody whose biological father played in the league, and, you know, being from Michigan, we played whatever sport it is that season. We played football, baseball, basketball, ran cross-country, whatever. Like, I take it serious.

Like, I'm literally trying to make sure that I'm a student of the game and I'm rewarding people that deserve it. And as I look at this year, there's some amazing candidates. But you can't ignore what the Joker's job. doing. Incredible, man. And I know Bill Russell and Larry Burr are the only people to win the MVP three times in a row.

And so what ends up happening is it becomes an award about storyline. It becomes an award about a perception of doing the most with the least and or having a historic year to go with your numbers. And so after he's won it twice, it's like, all right, we should be trying to give it to somebody else in theory. That's what the lazy, prevailing thinking becomes. And so I love what Lucas doing.

He putting up historic numbers, flirting with leading the league and scoring, giving supersized triple doubles. But I just don't know if his team's record is going to be, you know, top four in the West. I love what Jaws doing. He's spectacular.

You know how explosive he is. and he'll eventually win it one day. You got to always talk about Steph in the conversation. I know he's dealt with some injuries and y'all didn't get off to the start that y'all wanted to get off to, but he's still out here flames. LeBron is out here killing this year.

Yes, he is. You know what I? Yes, he is. Like, LeBron is out. The first time I've ever watched LeBron be down by 20 and be mesmerized was the other night against the clippers. Like, I was, watching that game, like, yo,

he is really killing. June threes, off the catch, off the dribble, dunking, spinning. Like, he got to be in the conversation. And then Jason Tatum, how he's elevated. And the Celtics are a number one seed. Absolutely. Yonis is going to make sure that the bucks are flirting with

a top tier C in the east. and then in BE also. So, like, there's all of these great candidates. So now what's going to separate them? Team record. Right now, Denver's number one in the West. Historic stats. This dude about to average a triple double.

As a center. Jesus Christ. That's a center. That's just mind-blowing. And so right now, if I had to select a betting choice, it has to be the Joker. He's getting 25, 12, and 10 assists on the nightly basis shooting 60% and like 30-some 40% from 3.

And they got the number one seed. It's a lot of ball to be played, but right now I will have to say him as it relates to the finals, I still feel like y'all got a running y'all. Yeah, we do. You know, I just saw Kamenga float to the left the other night like Connie Hawkins. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, all right, young fella, that's what I'm talking about.

That's what they need. And the beautiful thing about the West race, in the East, I feel like Boston. Let me just say that. Boston is the best team in the East. They're the deepest team in the East. They got two-wing scores that could get you 25 or 30. They got great guard play, multiple guards with White and Brogden and Marcus Smart. Like, they got multiple bigs and Robert Williams and Horford.

Like, they just loaded. So I'll say Boston, if healthy, should win. Here's why the West is intriguing. The people that's been there and done that are lower in the standings today as we speak. The Warriors, as you know, LeBron, the Clippers, the Sons. Like, these are all people that have done it recently. So now it's New Jacks at the top.

Denver, Memphis, Sacramento is third. In the West. Sacramento. Shout out to Mike Brown. No doubt. He balling, he got him doing his thing. But here's the thing. When the Kings play against one of the teams I just mentioned in the first round,

like the Warriors or the Lakers, they ain't going to be favorite. Yeah, they're not. You haven't been there before. Yeah, they ain't going to be favorite. And so that's going to catapult you veteran-laden teams into position to do it. So I'm just excited about the web. I'm excited about covering the West because we have the West this year

and I ain't ruling out being in the Golden State for at least the conference finals. Yeah, part. I respect that. Actually, this is the last question. We're going to get out of here. It's a very personal question. Jimmy Walker.

Number one pick. Yep. Your biological father, you never met him. The number one pick in 1967. What impact did that have on you growing up as a kid? Growing up as a kid that played basketball to know my father, it's the number one pick. But I never had a chance to know him yet I'm essentially walking in these footsteps. Like it's just in me.

Like what impact? Because that's like having dad issues is one thing not meeting your father. There's a totally different thing. We know the traumas that come with that. But to actually walk in. that light and say, no, I'm a basketball player. I'm from Detroit basketball is a big thing. I'm chasing this dream.

Oh, and by the way, my father was a number one pick, and I don't even have a chance to talk to him, meet him. What impact did that have him? A lot of pain, a lot of hurt, a lot of anger, a lot of disappointment, because a lot of times you start to think, he don't want to meet me. You see what I'm saying? And then it's when I'm at St. Cecilia and people are referencing him and showing him love. But I'm standing next to my mother who just brought me there and we're poor.

And they're talking about him. I resented that. You see what I'm saying? Absolutely. It became where I never talked about him. When I was very young, I used to carry his basketball card. and I should take it to the park and be like, oh, this is my dad or whatever.

And then as I started to get like in middle school, and you know, kids say mean things. And so having his name, the first thing a kid would do when they try to joke on me was act like JJ from good times was my father. Wow. You know what I'm saying? To try to disrespect me.

You see what I'm saying? Like, you don't know your father. He, Jimmy Walker. No, no, he's JJ from good. So that used to, that he's, to be fist fight right off. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying?

And as I started to get older, I was like, he was my inspiration to following his footsteps, but he was also my motivation that he was going to learn my name one day. And when I got to high school and he wore 24 when he played with the Pistons, I purposely picked number 42 because I'm like, I'm going to be the opposite of how he was with me. Wow. And so that was my number in high school out of spite, literally. And so once I got to college and I'm not mad at Mitch Album now,

but as I look back at it, I'm disappointed. And he literally gave me a letter as he was writing a FavFive book the night before we played the National Championship game. and I had never met my father. He gave me this letter because he had just talked to him for his book. And so I remember just sitting there staring at this letter. Ain't no excuse, by the way.

We got waxed. I ain't got no problems talking about bad games or whatever. But I just remember, like, thinking about this years later and understanding that this has such a profound impact on me that I kept that letter for like seven years with me and never even opened. it.

Like Linus in the blanket on Charlie Brown, like I just kept it with me, just always in my bag, always with me, always with me. After we made the finals when I was in the league, and after I got paid and I won most improved, I was like, now I'm ready. And I remember being at Dale Davis crib. They was in the front playing poker.

And I went in the back in his bathroom, and I opened the letter and I read it. and it was a number on there, and I called him. I'm like, I'm about to call him right now. And the first number he wasn't there. They gave me a second number. Second number wasn't there. I ended up talking to, like, his sister,

and she was giving me some game about him, some good game, some bad game. Good game. He's a great man. He would love to meet you. It's all, you know, he, whatever. Then there was some dubious things like he had 13 kids by 11 women and da-da-da-da. So it was all tight.

And so I finally got to, them on the phone. First thing I told them is I loved them. I thanked them for the jeans. I thanked them for the inspiration. And I told them I ain't got no hard feelings. I made it. And however the journey took us, this is how God meant it to be. And so I want to meet you. I want to celebrate you. I want us to be able to start a relationship. And the crazy thing about this day, day, a couple of years go by. I'm playing in the league. I'm working in the media.

I'm talking to him on the phone in like 2007. And I'm like, I'm coming to see you this summer. He died before the playoffs ended, and I got a chance to see him. I believe he died. Like, I was working the finals, as you know, and I was going to go see him like in July. And I believe he died before I got a chance to actually go see him. But I did go to his funeral.

with Dave Bing. And for all you youngsters out there that's having a lot of babies and choosing not to be in their lives, let me tell you some. His funeral was the coldest thing you ever want to see. It was like, I'm not making this up.

It was like in a cafeteria and it was like 30 people there. It was so chilling. I was like, yo, whoa. I was like, I'm just dropped to my name. needs and just like ask for forgiveness to any of my sins because I whatever this is, I don't want this. You know what I'm saying?

Like you can have an infant have a funeral and it could be hundreds of people there. You see what I'm saying? And so that experience did teach me a lot, but being a part of the NBA family and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar coming up to me talking to me about, hey, I went to your grandmother's house, she cooked real good. likes to hang out with your dad or whatever. You know, Clyde Frazier telling me stories and Jerry West telling me stories and stuff like that, I appreciated how they still treated me those OGs like I was in the family then, even though I wasn't.

Because I was blood. That's deep, man. That's deep. Wow. You know, I have, I've had my little spare share of dad. issues. And when you're going through it, nobody talks to anyone. And so until you start talking to someone, you realize, yo, it's so many more people

going through this same thing. But when you're going through it by yourself, it feel like you're the only person got that issue. Correct. And I applaud you for your approach to have, to be mad enough to call him and say, man, I ain't mad at you. I love you. Like, and I appreciate you. That's so powerful. What I will say to people out there is, if you having those issues, talk to somebody.

You'll be very shocked on the guy that you talk to next to you. Got the same issues. Yep. And also, here's the other thing I want to say. You don't realize how much anxiety and pain and hurt that you have from that. So if you can fix it, do it. That's the other thing.

Like, there's certain relationships that for whatever reason that just you can't repair. But if you can fix it, do it. Mm-hmm. Jay Rose, I appreciate you, my brother. Thank you for coming on the show. Always. I love you, my brother.

One call away. I see you in the playoffs. Yes, sir. I love you too, bro. Thank you. Yes, sir.