The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show - Kenny Smith

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Kenny Smith joins ‘The Draymond Green Show’ to discuss his experience as Michael Jordan’s college teammate, why being drafted by the Sacramento Kings was awful despite Bill Russell’s coaching, why Hakeem Olajuwon is so special, why the Rockets would’ve beaten the Bulls even with Jordan, the advice he gave LeBron James, the importance of roles on ‘Inside the NBA’ and much more.  Produced by: Jackson Safon #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. The Draymond Green Show is presented by Fandul. It's NFL playoff time. No better place to get in on the action than Fandul. Fandul app is safe. You get paid fast. A lot of ways to play. The spread, the money line, team totals, players, props.

A lot of stuff. Over unders. Jump into the action. Same game parlays are my favorite. Just use the promo code Colin and download the Fandul app today. Fandul now live in Ohio What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show

This next guest I'm honored to have A guy who I'm actually able to call a teammate now But two-time world champion Helen from Queens, New York Well, grew up in Queens, New York, New York City Point Guard Which we're going to talk some about New York City Point Guards In this interview

But I'm honored to have him Kenny to Jeff Smith, my brother, thank you for joining the show. I'm happy to be here, brother. I'm happy to be here. Absolutely, man, looking forward to it. I mean, let's get right into it. I mean, just speaking on growing up in New York, what did that do for you in your basketball career, but also just in life?

Like I think, you know, we grow up in the environments that we grow up in and they shape who you are as a person. What did growing up in New York City do for you? Well, you know, definitely, Dre, it's different era now. But what, you know, in terms of from a personal standpoint, you're your antennas of life are up quicker. So you're able to read situations by people's body language, by body movements, because there's such good people in New York and there's such bad people in New York.

And so you have to be able to really, at an early age, figure out who is whom. And for me, that was, that helped me as a person. It helped me stay focused because my dad could always point, or my mom could always point to say, oh, do you want to be like him? Or do you want to be like him? Or do you want to be like him? Like the people that they were talking about,

it's such a melting pot of people. Trade that everyone's right in your neighborhood. Like, the guy five blocks from you makes a million dollars. and the guys fly blocks back from you doesn't make a dollar. And you have all these melting box pots of cultures mixed in. The craziest

thing though was food. You know, we didn't even, like, when I went to the University of North Carolina, right, I was at breakfast, the first time we go to this team breakfast. I said, let me have some bagels and locks. And they were like, and what are you talking about? Bagels and locks.

I did not know that bagels and locks was a Jewish food because I just grew around. I didn't like I didn't really know pizza was ethnic. It was like Italian. I didn't know Jamaican food had Jamaican. But I did not know

it was just, oh, that's $1.50. That's $2.00. I never associated with ethnic groups. So like things like that growing up in New York, you have a like to me I had a good spread of wealth of like just being a rounded person.

That's a very interesting thing. I'll tell you something funny about me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. I didn't, and Jewish is a religion, but it's also, it acts almost as a race. Like, it is a religion, but it acts almost as a race. I know what you mean. I actually, I actually didn't know growing up in Saginaw, like, that there were Jewish people. Like, I just thought there were white people and, like, black people. Like, growing up in Saginaw. I never knew that was a thing until I got to college. And so you could see the drastic difference in, like, growing up in a place like New York City, tough as nails.

But bigger, more diverse, you're kind of exposed to everything. Me, growing up in Sagina on a place that's tough in a totally different way than New York City. Yet, I did not know anything. Yeah, I'll tell you what, Trane, like, even because the crazy part, like, you see all the the mafia stories. There are so many of their kids that were on my basketball teams that I didn't know that that's what their dads

did. And I was like, I just would not, I had no clue because Queens for some reason was a nesting ground for those guys in those eras. So all of their they sent all their kids to Catholic school, private schools. I went to

a Catholic high school. And people would be like, oh, don't mess with, don't mess with Billy. I'm like, why not? Like, no, just don't mess with Billy. Oh, don't mess with you. And then by my senior year, I understood who their dad's way and what they were doing. Because I started seeing them on the front page of New York papers.

I was like, oh, this is who Billy's dad is. That's crazy. So that was just like a normal thing. I had clocked lunch wanting through the city because of that. Because you think about this, like most of us, we grew up in the hood. Like, all the guys in our neighborhood were doing bad or doing dirt. so to speak. They're like, okay,

Dre, we're about to do something, get out the way. We know that you have a future in basketball, right? Or you have a future to go to college. I had the same thing. But then you compile that with, I had the Mafia's families,

the Jewish families that were in positive or negative. So everyone collectively in New York City was looking out for me. I could walk through New York City and skate through the city and I never felt threatened at all because of that.

that's what basketball did for me. Do you still feel like that today when you walk through New York City? Oh, without question. Like, New York, I joke around. I'm like, my name is not Kenny. It's Ken and why? So, like, I'm like, I could walk around

because literally the, I told you, we had those guys at our school. Absolutely. The head of the police chief came from my high school of New York City. So I had the chief police chief, who becomes ultimate police chief. The guy who are doing all the dirt,

I live in a neighborhood that's got all of the different things. We're 80s, 90s babies, so we crack babies and all of that, you know, people around us. So we got that going. So every single event, most of the guys from my high school, worked on Wall Street as well. So when I go, so you got Wall Street, you got drugs, you got money, you got every element.

And there's nowhere in New York City. I don't know anyone. It's impossible for me to walk anywhere and not know anyone. That's impressive, man. That's impressive. It's a great thing. It actually was fun. It was fun growing up in New York for me.

Even though it was danger, but it was fun. It was fun. And speaking of New York City and growing up there, St. Johns is there. You chose to go play at North Carolina for Dean Smith. Why North Carolina over St. John's? No, I would never play for St. John's. Only because my high school,

I had to take the bus by St. John's. So I was like, I'm not getting on the same bus to go to college. I was like, I am not, there was no way I had, I could fathom having a bus pass to go to college. I just couldn't. I was like, there's no way. And Luke Coniceco was there at the time, like he is a New York icon. Like, he still treated me like I was in New York,

like I was one of St. John's guy. when he saw me. He'd see me, hey, Kenny, how you doing? Hey, we got some sneakers. Give Kenny some sneakers if he were on a lot. And he just knew I wasn't ever going to transfer from North Carolina to St. John's. But he just was their epitome of the New York basketball grandfather. And St. Johns was our, I went to Malloy High School, which was the subsidiary of St.

John. So St. John's was the same diocese of pretexts. that went there to my private school. So, like, people taught at St. John's taught at my high school or vice versa. So we had a real close connection with St. John University. But I was never going to take a bus to that school, bro. Never. No. No chance.

No chance. I wanted to see what that look like, you know, the movies with the Brat houses. You know what Michigan was safe. Absolutely. I want it all that. I want it all that. The proper college experience. I always say, I'm not sure I would want, I would.

would have wanted to go to school in New York or go to school in L.A., like college in L.A., because the experience that I had at Michigan State in East Lansing, Michigan, you can't get that experience as a college player in New York. You can't get that experience as a college player in L.A. And that's always my thing is, like, even if you do great in L.A., UCLA can do great. UCLA has done great. USC can do great. They've done,

the Lakers are still there. Yeah. Like the New York Knicks are still in New York City. If you win a championship the same year that the New York Knicks won a championship,

they may not even have a parade for you. Yeah. Like that's how drastic of a difference is. But one thing that they sell for St. John's, you know, because I know Mark Jackson's my guy. That's my guy. And Chris Mullins is my guy.

And I know they're going to be like, oh, he's killing. They say, what they sell is New York is your campus. They say your campus is New York City. And that's how they sell to people who aren't there. They're like, your campus is New York City. And for me, I was like, I lived there my whole life. It's always been my campus.

I'm gone. I'm gone. It's been my campus, my whole life. I don't need it no more. The restaurants in New York City, they still cost the same if you go to St. John's, right? No. I'm meaning this way

because you're on the front page back then before it's social media you're on the front page of the newspaper back page of the newspaper you're not paying for nothing if you go to St. John's and you're Walter Berry, you're Mark Jackson and you're Chris Mullin. You're not paying

with nothing in New York City. Yeah, but everybody that's three guys. Yeah, I mean, but no, I'm talking about the whole St. John's team, those guys have, they did have some really great privileges to be in a safe job. I would say that.

I would say to ask them to do privileges. Okay, well, that works then because if I'm a college student, and nowadays, NIL is different, and we'll talk a little bit about that, but if I'm a college student in New York City and I'm not getting those privileges, then you're essentially, like,

living a life of a peasant because we don't have any money. You're broke. You're broke. And even, you know what else? Drake, like, when you always want, is you want to feel, feel appreciated, even more than getting a dollar or NIL deal.

It's like you walk on campus and things stop because of what you're doing and how much work you're putting in on the campus and how much notoriety you bring it to the school. If you don't have that, it is a bad feeling. And I would never want that feeling. That's why I went to North Carolina and I'm walking around with Sam Perkins and Michael Jordan and I'm walking around and I'm seeing with these guys and how they being entertained just by just their presence, I was like, like, hey, Dre, when we used to go,

Duke is a Duke was our rival for that school in Durham. So North Carolina Central sits in the middle, HBCU. Absolutely. So if you want to get your haircut, you go into North Carolina Central. They got the best barbers. They got their whole student union. So this would show that we were better than them at this time.

When we came in there, Dre, they would shut down the barber shop and no one could come in the shop. And I never forget this. Johnny Dawkins comes and trying to get a haircut. And he's a Duke player at the time who's now to heck, you know, a basketball coaching college basketball. And they wouldn't let him in. Jordan was like, if you open that door, we will never come back to get a haircut. And they didn't let them in. I was like, yes.

Oh, that had to hurt. I had to hurt. Oh, that had to hurt. They didn't let them in because they used to shut it down for them or for us. So when we were in there first, they marched out, nah, we had here, don't open that door for them. So all the kids in North Carolina Central and they were come and just look at us getting haircuts. We were like, because there was no NBA teams. We were rock stars.

It was rock star status in North Carolina. Probably like East Lansing. It's got to be. Absolutely. Rock star status. That's incredible. Speaking of Michael Jordan and wanted to roll into your North Carolina. You go to North Carolina, Dean Smith's the coach, the legend Dean Smith RIP.

What was it like going to play for a coach like Dean Smith? And at that time, like, so now we all look at Dean Smith, like the legend. At that time, did it have that same feel of going to play for a legend as it has now, like we look at him as the legend? Or was he just kind of still going through making him, making his name? No, he was a legend for sure. Me being a New Yorker, I was a pro basketball fan before I was a college basketball fan. So I knew, but I didn't know until I got there. And there's so many things, which is interesting, Drake.

Like, I just finished writing a book. And it's called Talker Champions. And what it is, it's a tell-all book about everything. I learned great from people. Oh, wow. Okay. So, and each chapter is named after a Pacific person, and everything I learned great from them. And I wish I could, and I've bestowing that on to my kids in the world,

so you can have it early and get it all together. But if I knew it all that one time, man, it'd be crazy. So with Dean Smith, the most unique thing, there's a lot of great things about it, but one of the most unique things that he could have done to recruit me, and got me to sign instantly. I got down there. I had no idea.

I knew who Charlie Scott was because he played in the NBA. He was an NBA All-Star at the time. But I didn't know he was the first African-American player in the ACC. And I didn't know the first. And he played for North Carolina. And Dean Smith recruited him and said he's the first. if you walk into any African-American home and say, I recruit the first African-American basketball player

to ever play at the University of North Carolina or the ACC. Everyone would go, oh, I'm coming to your school. There's not even, there's no debate. And I asked him, I said, why didn't you ever tell me that? And he said, I didn't recruit African-American Charlie Scott. I recruited Charlie Scott.

Wow. And from then, he said, the second thing he says now that you're here this was when apartheid was going on with with all the things in Africa we had the shanties on the on the campus and it was protests about Mandela and he goes now the second thing now as an African American student what are you going to do

that is not related to basketball with this I didn't even know what apartheid was at that time I'm coming out of high school not really into politically smart. You know what I mean? And that was the first two things he said to me. I was like, that's a different individual without question. So yes.

It was, for me, it was an out of bodily experience. It was like playing for Mandelaus, playing for Mother Teresa, playing for all of the Martin Luther King. Like, it was like his knowledge and awareness of self was I had never experienced anything like that. And especially from someone, who was non-African American.

That was the first time that I ever had, a white man had ever asked me, what are you going to do for black people? That's the first white person that ever asked me that question. What did you then do? I found, I did research. I was like, damn, I don't even know

what a pottye really is. I just read about it on the headlines. So I researched it. Then they had the shanties on campus. So I helped build some of the shanties on campus, you know, like I just did small things, gave some time here and there,

but I wasn't aware. He just made me aware of something that I probably would have as an athlete didn't, could have skated by because, you know, because at this time, it wasn't like it is today, you know,

Muhammad Ali was the only one that people asked about, you know, what was going on other than his sport. And so for me to him, for him to say that, and it challenged me as an African-American young man and I don't even think I had a black coach

that ever challenged me like that. That's interesting. That's very interesting. You go on, and by the way, you said I gave a little bit of time for those listening to this. I don't think you understand what giving a little bit of time in college means.

Oh, you don't have time. Exactly. You don't have time. Your schedule is not your schedule. Your life is not. your life. Like, you don't have time. So number one, for Dean Smith to ask you that I think is incredible. Number two, for him to allow you to have the time to do that, like, you don't have time in college. You don't have time. I think that's honorable. You don't. It's very honorable.

Yeah. So it's a different experience. You join the team with Michael Jordan and Sam Perkins. when you arrive and you join those guys on that team, obviously looking at Michael Jordan, then no one's saying, oh man, I see him, this guy is going to be the greatest player ever to play. But did you see something in him different at that time, maybe work ethic, maybe athleticism,

something that made you think he was special? Or was it just like, no, like, that's Michael Jordan, that's my teammate, he's really good? I think it was after it was the summers that I noticed it. It was his work ethic in the summertime. During the season, we're all working the same amount. So no one's getting an edge on work ethic. Like we're all doing the same stuff.

Absolutely. But in the all season, when the pros were bad at that time, you know, we probably had 22 guys who were in the NBA from North Carolina. and they all would come back and play. And he would just dominate guys. And these are guys who are NBA All-Stars, and I want, like, I want to get their autograph. And he would just dominate, Dre,

in terms of, like, everyone has a day. Like, I'm sure that when East Lansing, you had a day or two or a week, you go. But it was every day that he did. And he was the first guy that I saw, because I'm a trash talker. I'm from New York. that's all we do.

Talk, talk, talk. So, but he was the first guy that I saw that could back up everything he said. He could back it up. And he was the, I always said to him, I'm like, yo, you're the perfect basketball body. He's like, what do you mean? I'm like, you're six foot six, you can play with the bigs, and you're six foot six and you can guard the smalls. And you have super athleticism.

And then in college, he had a perfect jump shot. So I used to be like, how do you miss? You're jump shot, your elbows always in. You should never miss. The one thing that I thought did it didn't have when I was a freshman was his ball handling. He was good at darting to the rim,

Trey, but he couldn't shake you. So I used to be like, oh, I got Mike. I got Mike. And he's like, oh, you're going to guard me. I'm like, yeah, because you can't trouble. You can't got a back day we used to handle. You ain't got no handle. So long story short, we play and pick up,

so next year comes. And he goes, you call to me? I'm like, yeah, I got my, you like, handles ridiculous. He's like, I got a handle now. So even like that, you know, the documentary says he thinks of things, even when he doesn't probably, he probably don't remember saying it. But he came back a year later. And the first thing, he says, oh, I got a handle now.

And he worked on. I'll say this about him, Dre. He's the only bad player in basketball history that the things. he came in, that was his weaknesses, were his strengths when he left the league. His ball handling, his shooting, his turnaround jump shot, his post game was probably some of his weaknesses.

Those were his strengths when he left the league. There's nobody else like that, right? Yeah, I'm telling you. Kobe? What did Kobe's body? What was Kobe's bad. Kobe's ball handler was good. He was a rookie as a rookie.

He was doing all the one stuff As a rookie It was fancy But I don't think it was like He was doing the long crossover and stuff But it wasn't a tight handle It was loose Mike couldn't do a long crossover

When he got in the league That pullback on Brian Russell He would have never been able to do that When he first got in the league There was like no way That I would imagine He's doing that move to win an NBA finals That's what I mean

Like, that move for Kobe, I was still like, okay, he likes to do all that and one. I would never imagine Mike that would be his signature move that, like, could define his career, could define his career. Like, I just think that, I mean, Kobe might be that guy, but I don't know any other, like, that every weakness was his strength at the end. That's impressive. That's, so, so Mike leaves the team, the team, once he leaves, the team kind of becomes yours. you become a consensus All-American, going to be the number six pick by the Sacramento Kings. What was your experience like

and getting drafted to Sacramento? Because I know for me, you went from New York to North Carolina, that's a big difference. I got drafted to the Go to State Warriors. I had never been out of the state of Michigan. So I was homesick going to California, and I don't think people would ask me like,

yo, what's it like out there? I was just say different. They were like, well, what's different? I don't really know how to explain different to you, but it's just different. And that was a big thing for me, my rookie year, that if I'm being honest, which it almost cost me my career

because I was so homesick, like I was just turned off by all of it. What was that experience like for you getting drafted to Sacramento? See these tears coming down my eye? I was ready to cry. First of all, I didn't even know Sacramento. Like, they didn't come on TV.

They had terrible management. and ownership at that time. But the one caveat was Bill Russell had just taken the job over. So Bill, I have the distinction of being the only player that Bill Russell has drafted. He drafted me into the NBA. And so the great thing about that experience

was every day, Bill had a rule that I had to sit next to him on all team planes and all team buses. And he said, and I had to hear, I heard every Boston Celtic story, I heard every civil rights story. I heard it because he never slept on any of the planes or the thing. So I had rookie, rookie, you didn't sleep last night.

So I heard every story. That was a great caveat of that relationship. I became very close with Bill Russell. Even till his day, I still speak to his wife. I mean, like really close with him in six months. The downfall of that is the team was terrible. And the organization wasn't a championship. mix. So meaning

like North Carolina has a rule, Dean Smith had a rule. If a player calls him in the office, he's going to pick up the phone. Roy Williams did it, and I'm sure Hubert Davis is doing it now. He's going to pick up the phone regardless if he's talking to the President of the United States unless he's talking to

another player. That's the only time he won't pick up for you. I get drafted. On draft night, Dre. Hey, you get drafted. You know how to give you the phone. and you talked to the team? I was at home, champ, so I don't know all that,

but you got a big dog. You know, I forgot you. I've seen it. A 35th pick. I don't get that experience, champ. I know you got the 32. Fable list in front of you. You can remember.

I forgot about that. So you pick up the phone and they go, I'm like, hey, this is Kenny Smith. The secretary goes, one second. I'm on the phone for like three minutes. This is all draft night. Right after I get, I come off the stage. She gets back.

She goes. hi Sacramento team Kings may I help you I go this is Kenny Smith I just got drafted by this is Kenny Smith I'm here to talk to Bill Russell I didn't say drafted yet and so she goes one second another four minutes come we'll go by hi this Sacramento Kings might help you who's calling I said this Kenny Smith I get drafted so right then I'm turned off like I'm like I just got drafted sixth and I'm going to a place that don't value. They don't value me.

They don't even, they don't value what's going on. Now, obviously, Coach Russell hadn't been there long enough to change the culture. He was new just like me. So the culture was so bad in Sacramento. We used to do our own laundry.

Guys would forget their jerseys, Dre, because they're doing their own laundry at home and they're packing their bags. You know how the team takes care of that? Every team, and even in the 90s, men, teams did that. they you're doing all of that and you're trying to play and concentrate

and they're like oh you want your laundry done you got to pay $100 a month which is nothing but the fact that they would make you pay to have someone do their laundry to show that they didn't care about you that's all it does because $100 doesn't hurt me it doesn't hurt the team

it just shows me that you don't care that's all right so I didn't like that experience going to Houston was like a godsend yeah it was like a breath of friends You go to Houston, you're then with Hakeem. What's something that people don't know about Hakeem that made him special?

Like obviously, we all know the footwork was incredible. But what was something that he did on the basketball court that was more of an underrated thing that people don't quite give credit for that was actually one of the things that really made him great? before I go to basketball, I've been blessed to play with great people and be around great mentors. That's why I wrote the book, honestly. He's the most honorable man I've ever met in my life.

Most horrible, Dre. Like, if Akeem, like right now, if I was stuck on a highway and they gave me a cell phone, they said, you've got three people to call to come get you. I'm calling Akeem. He's going to be one of the three. He's always going to do exactly what he's going to,

what he says, what he's going to do. He never variance from what he says. He's so honorable and what his word is. Like we all, we had a saying in New York, word is born, word is bond. Your word is bond. Like, no, his word is bond. Well, it is 100% of what it is.

He means it all the time. Always the most honorable dude I've ever been around. So on a basketball court, you're going to trust it. Yo, Kenny, I'm going to be there. I'm coming. Don't worry. If he, he's going to be there.

He said it. He's going to be there. He's going to be there. So the most underrated thing was his word. The second most underrated as a physical standpoint was he would be unbelievable in today's game because he could switch one to five. And so he could, guy come off the pick and you got the one. Oh, he's moving his feet.

And if you throw the law, he's going back to still try to contest the law. I have never seen a player that could double in the pick and roll and get back to his man on the roll and still block the shot. He was the most unique athlete in terms of instinct. Like he just knew when to leave. He knew when to stay. He knew when to come. I know you're a great defensive player, and that's why I kind of watch certain things that you do on the pick and roll. And it's very, okay, imagine if you were 6'10 and you're at.

athleticism was Blake Griffin. That was Akeen. Now, how many people were scoring you? How many, that's him? Jesus. He's you on a defensive end at 610 with Blake Griffin's young athleticism.

That's who he is. That's impressive. You know, I heard something about Hakeem that I think is even more impressive than anything he's done about. I heard Hakeem owns like half of Houston. I heard he's a real estate. and I don't know if that's true or not,

but if that is true and he's a real estate guru like that, the fact that he is that you don't hear anything from him, you don't see anything. And so the fact I've heard that, and then you speak about how- Elijah Wong Corporation is real, and the crazy thing is he started it in college. Really?

He was living in a townhome in college. He gets drafted by Houston. Yes. And his first purchase, he bought the condo that he was in. And then it just so on and so on. Then he moved, got out, kept it just, but he is, he is the most underrated, wealthy man in the NBA, underrated his wealth of not only that, but just his business savvy.

And, you know, to have that kind of mindset, he's always had, I've never walked in a room or to his house or to anything. and said, man, what is this dude doing around the key? Never that. His company that he keeps, you're like, man, can I know you? Can I get to know who you are? Can I figure out how to be next to you? His company was impeccable.

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Gambling problem, 1-800 next step or text next step to 5334-2-Ari-8-8-8-8-7-7-7. or visit chtitccccdbloger or visit Fandul. com slash RG and Colorado, Indiana, Jersey, and Virginia. 7777-7-0-0-N-1-7 for confidential help in Michigan. 1877-H-H-O-P-E-N-Y, or text H-O-P-E-N-Y-4-6-7-369 in New York, Tennessee. Redline, 1-800-9-9-N-Septyset-N-N-E-N-E-HBless-B that's impressive. And speaking of Hakein, obviously, dominated with his back to the basket.

Do you think that style will ever come back into the NBA with the way the NBA has transitioned to more, like, 80% of centers in the NBA, maybe even more, can't play with their back to the basket today. Yeah, he would kill us era only because, Dre, he was actually the king of the mid-range shot, too. So, like, his whole thing

was, I'm going to face you. And, like, do inside pivots and do guard moves as a big. So he and I, Vernon, Maxwell, and all of it. We, sometimes we shoot after practice. And we, he would just do all card moves. He's like, oh, Kenny, it's the same moves on the box. Up and unders.

It's step-throughs out front. you know, crossover, head fake. It's the same stuff. I'm going to do all your moves. Let's go. Let's go. But then with underrated, he never would take him. But, you know, I shot a lot of threes.

So he would always get into three shooting contests. And he made five out of eight threes from each spot, like easily. But in the game, he's like, I said, dream, why don't you shoot threes? Because, you know, he's like, why are we going to shoot threes? I only have to play three times a year. Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, and O'L and Shaq.

That's it. Everyone else I killed. He's like, so he's like, no one else can call me here. The rest of them, that's it. I move out. He said the only time I move off the block is against those three guys

because no one else could guard me. But he could shoot the three. He led the league and steals one year. So defensively was incredible. Defensive player the year, MVP. His mid-range game was crazy. His picking roll lob to the rim would have been Blake Griffin-like. And he would have shot the three.

He would have been like, I'm trying to think of a, he would have been able to finish like Clint Catella, Capella on the, on the logs. Because he read the, he knows when to leave. He would have been defensively 610 U. And he would have probably been, who takes that mid-range jumper now at the five.

On the picking pot. Who takes the man range, Jay? She, Joel. He's an athletic Joel NB. Me and Sam,

because Sam, you know, that's my guy. He always puts me on the phone when he's on the bus with all his 76s. And they have this argument

about how Dream couldn't guard Joel. Come on, Kitty. Come on. Now, tell him, Kitty. He's an athletic Joel to be.

Like, Joel is athletic, but he's not, He's more brute strength. Yeah. But they play a lot of like, a lot of like that mid-range shot. He kind of backs you in. But I just think he's a much better defender than Joelle. That's it.

He's just a much better defender. And strong enough. He had to be strong enough, right? He got a shack. Yeah, yeah. Shack, I've never seen anyone not be outpowered by Shack but him. And I don't know if it was because. Is his footwork, his strength, or just his tenacity.

Like, Dre, like, you'd like him. He's got a lot of that. Like, before he went to devout Muslim, like, it was like teams were fearful not only of him as a defender, but they were a little bit scared of his physicality, you know, and how he would treat you if you showed any type of weakness. So I had dog, I had him, Bernie Maxwell. I was talking so much.

I was so happy that I had them dogs around me, man. Those two dudes, oh, my God, unbelievable, unbelievable. My favorite teammate of all time is probably Chuckie Brown just because we fall from New York. But Vernon Maxwell and Sam Cousel and Mario Ellie, we should just sit on the bus and do this all day, Dre. Just what we're doing. So when I'm on TV, when I first got on, they used to be like,

man, you should pay us. You're just saying stuff we said in the back of the bus. All of them years. All of years. So those are my guys, man. That's incredible. That's incredible. Speaking of y'all time with the Houston Rockets,

I hate it because I've heard similar stuff like that with our championships. Not exactly the same, but along the lines. People say, if Michael Jordan didn't leave for those two years, do y'all still win those two championships? friendships. Quite frankly, it don't matter. You're a champion. No, it matters. It matters. It does.

It matters. So what do you feel about that? What do you think happens if MJ does not leave those two years? I'm going to say this. Michael Jordan is, to me, the greatest play that ever touched the basketball. And I'm actually glad that we didn't play them because I love the resume

that he has that he's never lost in the finals. Because as a fan, a basketball fan, I think that's a great resume. But they wouldn't beat us. They would not have beaten us, Dre, because of two things. Not because he wasn't the greatest player because Akeem was

also the number, he would have been number one or two player in the world at that time, too. And those championship runs. But they were, the bulls were too little then. People forget they had, the reason they lost to Orlando wasn't Shaq. It was Horace Grant was gone.

And Horace Grant was there. And they lifted Horace Grant up after the series because he dominated the series more than he's ever done offensively because they were too little. So all of those guys and they were just too little for Dream.

Weddington and Phil Jackson didn't double team. The next year we wanted, he comes back. They hadn't had Rodman. Robin wasn't there yet. They're still too little. So they just would have not been able to dominate us

because in those, that first championship years, when they won, I think three in a row, you know, we're in the East and West, you only play them twice. We went six and two in a regular season against them. Now, it's not the playoffs. Like, it's different.

But that just shows that like, like, you know, in three years, you only beat them twice? Like, wait a minute. Like, that's saying a lot that they had trouble with us. Even when they were winning championships, they used to come to Houston and get out.

So, and it was because they wouldn't double and then when they and then they were too slow on the perimeter because myself burning and and sam at that time we were i was a jet for a reason i could get by people burning get by people easily sam could dribble by people they were just too slow with bj steve and they on the perimeter so we got we got baskets a little bit more frequently too so now i don't think they would beat us man i don't i think they were too little now if they had robin they would be this probably. I would have been like,

I didn't know about it. But no Robin, no, no grant, we smack at none. Why do they beat y'all of Hay High Robin? Do you think Robin would have guarded dream well? It's just the second shot opportunities. Like, we were getting second shot opportunities. You know, you don't have to, like,

dream is going to be efficient, but he might not be a dominant in one game in the series. Like, so you have it easy. You can even it out. It's like every series, like, okay, when y'all played Cleveland, who would you guard? Kevin Love. Okay. Take you out of there.

How many rebounds is Kevin Love can get? Hell of a rebounder. It is a hell of a rebounder. In that era, he was top three power forward in the game. 12 to 15 rebounds, you can book it. You can book it. Now not only rebound, offensive rebounds. Putbacks.

You're like, no, no, no, no. You're going to do a little bit of that. But we're shutting some of that down. That's what they could have done. They could have shut it down. Without them, no. We're wild on the boards. He's all over the rim.

He's an animal over the... It's too much. And we're shooting threes. And we're the first team to shoot threes, Dre. It's too much. We created the four-out, one-in offense. Nobody was doing that before us. We were all...

Everybody else was doing two guard fronts. We're the first team to win an NBA championship playing four out and one-in. too much. It was too much for them. So what happens, I think a lot of people don't understand from year to year, championship teams are different. Even if you go back to back, it's a different team.

Like, very seldomly does an NBA team come back the exact same from one year to the next. And it could be one or two pieces that the public may not see and they leave and you know on that team, like, man, we missed this guy. We missed that guy. Was there someone that y'all lost after the second championship

that changed the whole dynamic for y'all team? I think it was management. The belief was that Dream and Clyde got it done. Uh-huh. You know, in the moment, no one's believing that. Oh, it's a team. Oh, kumbaya, everybody's did they part? Kenny, you broke the NBA record for threes that game.

Sam, you. came and they got 30 in game two of the NBA. Mario, you get the kiss of death. Like everybody, oh, everybody remembers that in the moment. Then about a year and a half removed, they don't remember that. And they go, oh, we can get a guy, we can get a guy to do it. I'm going to go here with you. We can get a guy to do what Gary Payton, your third does.

Oh, no, you can't. Oh, no, you can't. Now, somebody might run into that role, but you're going to miss it. You're like, you're going to miss GP. his role is big was big which you all in certain name. GP2. Right.

GP2, you're going to miss GP2. Like, you're going to miss this guy. So, like, I thought that they thought we were a three-point shooting team. And they forgot the fact that we were three, we were able to get threes off because if you ran out of us, we went by you.

Yeah. Where then they bought another guys around Dream and Clyde that they were just three-point shootings. And so, They really couldn't create offense for themselves if they ran at them. Like, you know, you run out step. He's going to go by you.

You run that clay. You got the two-per-dribble pull-up. Those guys are like, no, we stand in this spot. We're not moving. And we shoot. Or we got to get off. Yeah. And I thought they just, management didn't really, they took, didn't take what Sam

Cousel did. They didn't take what Robert Orie did. They didn't take what myself did. O'Mario, they kept. but I don't think they thought that the value that the three of us brought was just the spacing of the floor. Absolutely. And speaking of management, a question I actually had that I wanted to ask you.

A few years back, your name will constantly come up when head coaching jobs were open up, your name will come up that you wanted to get into coaching. Is that something you still want to do? and, well, let's just start there. Is that something that you still want to do? Do you want to be a head coach in the NBA? Well, interesting, in love, I've only once told some,

I never had an agent initially that would even look for those things. I was just getting called. So like, just like you said, I'd be on the set. Literally, my phone would ring. And they were like, Kenny, what you just said made sense. Would you want to interview for the job as coaching? So I did like three of those And I was like, yo, I might need an agent

So I never pursued the first three So I had no idea what even an interview would look like I didn't know what you're supposed to come in Thinking or anything like that I think I've gotten past the stage Where now the phone rings and they go, Would you be interested in running our team? And so

Because of Dre, I think the Now I know most of the guys who are presidents of teams. I know a bunch of general managers. I know a bunch of agents. So it's like my relationships, I know a bunch of players. I'm in the gym in the summertime in L.A.

watching dudes and hanging out with dudes and watching dudes play because I have younger sons. So I take them to the pickup games where KD. and Kyrie and Trey Young and all those dudes are going. I'm like, yo, let's go. Let's go watch. I'm a who person.

So my relationships are, a real enough way I think they're starting to say that and I've gotten one last year and I said no I'm not ready I just didn't want to I just didn't think that they were ready and so now I think I'm getting those calls about

you help put a team together because I got my ear to the street so to speak you know absolutely absolutely and at Turner I know all you guys just signed new deals like how much longer do you see yourself doing that it's been 25 years, which is absolutely insane.

Insane. Like, I could do this forever, honestly, because, I could watch y'all game, and in the first six minutes of the game, I could say it's an eight-point game. I can't say it before the game, but once I see the first, like, six, seven minutes

in the trend of the game, I'm probably 90% right. Like, 90% of the time. I'm like, if they don't do this, it's going to not going to happen. Because as Golden State, you're looking, I always tell, Like, I talk to even Bob sometimes, you know, you got Bob minds.

I'm like, I says there teams, a lot of times, you guys as a general manager president, you're looking at it like this. So you only see your hand. My job is to pay attention to the 27 teams that are, oh, the 12th, they're not 27, like the 20 teams that have a chance to win it, right? Yeah. That's going to make the playoffs and have a chance to win it. I got to pay attention to those.

So I'm seeing all of their trends. I'm seeing what they're doing over here before you even play them. You might play the Knicks once, but I'm watching the Knicks 20 times. So I just know all the trends in the league that I'm not looking at it like this. Yes. Yes.

And do you feel comfortable like with the way players have changed? because it's been a long time since you've had to deal with players. And I'm telling you, I'm in year 11. These young dudes different, man. Do you feel comfortable with having to deal with young talents coming in? Because it's just a totally different generation in these young dudes different, man.

And there's a saying that you know already. Like, has Draymond Green changed when he's gotten, you know, these big contract? No, it's usually the people around you change. That's a fact. I ain't changing. Like, the one thing I know about you, just because you come into the studio, you know, guys come in on a regular to our studio, the honesty wins. Like, that's a fact. Honesty.

You ain't got to be brutal and be, you know, like, you don't have to be condescending. But no, like, bro, this is really what I see, you know? And I knew it was different And I know if this guy took criticism Then anybody could Two guys honestly But LeBron Was the first guy

I went on tour with him When he was When he, that movie came out about his life So they asked me to have to see In all of his different cities And He had They had won the MVP

They didn't win the championship that year But now he's got a movie made about his life so he's talking we're in the back you know how we're everybody in the back you start talking it's like man what do you know Kenny what do you see and I said LeBron like I don't know if you're going to hear what I'm saying

he's like what do you mean I'm not going to hear what you're saying Kenny he's like because I said because you're the greatest player in the world right now you got a movie made about your life that I'm emceeing and you still got holes in your game And sometimes I said, and I said, there's a saying that my dad used always tell me.

And he used to say, it's hard to work hard when you're sleeping in silk robes. And I don't know if you're sleeping in silk robes. So he's like, no, no, tell me. I said, the one thing I see is like, your back to the basket game is just average. I said, and at times you pass up an open shot for a greatest shot, but the greatest shot is your open shot. Yeah. Now, I don't know if he went out to other

and he just did that naturally, but I'm able to tell him that and he was able to respond to it. This is the MVP of the league at that time. So I'm like, I can tell him that. I'm going to tell anybody, anybody. Like, it's not, guys record is real.

They know what it is. And they know when you're faking it. Dre, you know when a general manager or president of team walks to you and he's faking his speech. facts. You know for us to read right through it. You can see right through it.

You can see right through it. And you're like, I'm not, and we're from, we're from neighborhoods that we have to read people fast. You have to, because it's life or death.

If you got to read. That's the difference, right? Like, other people's decisions have consequences. I always had life with death consequences. So you got to read fast. I know I'm in a room with Dre. I'm like, I'm not faking anything I see or hear.

And I don't, but that even, that's not even my nature. So yeah. And then do I know damn basketball? I know it better than me. I don't think there's nobody knowing more than me that do what I do. So, of course, like, I'm coming to Dre. I'm going to be like, yo, Dre. Listen, this altercation you had, like, there's no.

in the NBA that's not how to fight, bro. There's nobody in the league. I'm not bringing you guys together. You bring y'all together. And I'll see you tomorrow. And I'm walking out the room. That's it. What am I going to bring you in a room?

Have you talked? Like, now you're looking at me like, oh, he's trying to be some fake police cop and trying to know. Dre, you know how to have, you don't have many, we've been in areas where we've had many of this, where you've got to do, have something like,

that happened and that dude ride on the bus next to you in school. That happens every day in our neighborhood's growing up. That's not unusual. It's just unusual it was on camera. Yeah. Now I'm going to go, you know what? Drake, you handle him. I'm going to handle the media.

See you later. How are you going to feel with that? You're going to be like, okay, that's real. I'm not faking it. You got to handle it because number one, it's been, the ball's just been thrown back into your court. what you're going to do with it. You can't fail in that moment.

Right. It's your job to do that. Because I can bring y'all in all day. But if y'all don't like each other, y'all don't get it resolved anyway. So what am I doing? I'm just, yeah. But I'm telling who's got to handle it, and I'm out.

But I'm going to, I know how to handle Charles, Stephen A. Smith, Shaq. I know how to handle Ernie. I know how to handle everybody on TV. I know how to talk to them. I got this. I got that. Speaking of Shaq, Charles, Ernie, do, and I've been up there on the set, I've had the pleasure and honor of being on the set with you guys.

But this is something that I truly wonder. Do y'all view that as a team and there's roles within that team when y'all step up on their stage? Because it's an entire production. Like that show, that show has gotten bigger than anybody, like, than any one person. and it's an entire production, and I feel like everyone makes it work in their own way. Do y'all feel like it's a team and you have roles in what you do up there?

100%. And the one thing that I've learned that, and you've learned being on a championship team, I'm sure, is that everyone's role is really valuable. Like, it's by, I'm not running into a Christmas tree, bro, but we need that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Charles is not running to the board and breaking down and putting X's nose and going in the street but we need that Charles is going to come with an unfiltered filter coffee machine of black coffee and you're going to taste it

but we need that Ernie is going to just be the ability to understand when to move on to the next segment we need that so like at no point do we ever look at here it is

And I don't know if you felt like this and you can agree. When you're on a championship team, I never feel in competition with the guy next to me. Never. Never. Never. I don't feel competition with them anymore. I've gone past that.

You know, initially, and then you get, now you get, we've gone past that, you know. I'm never sitting on a bench hoping Sam Kassel misses the shot so I can get back in a damn game. I'm like, yo, kill this dude. Sam. You know what I mean?

Like, I never feel in competition. Like, and that's how I feel on our show. I'm never feeling competition with those guys. Have you ever felt like Shaq, Shaq and Chuck will really get into it?

Because I don't think people realize, like, some of those moments you have up there, like, you're still a human being, you're still having a pen. And at the end of the day, we're all competitive as hell. Yeah. That's my job.

So that's my job. Like, I'm going to throw gasoline on the fire, but I also, I know I'm in charge of the extinguisher too. So when it gets that point, and their egos are here. Absolutely. Absolutely. I know my job at time is to take the pressure off of it being about Chuck and him

and make it about me and him or making it about me and Chuck. at times too. So it's not where he's just like, it's them because they are here and they're ready to come. And then five minutes later, that's what I'm saying. Five minutes later, we're in the back. They're picking each other up.

Jack is like, I bet I can lift you up. I bet I can binge press you. Five minutes after they were ready to just, that's what we know. We grew up in that. We understand that that is not long-lasting. But it's real. Israel.

And speaking of TV, you've done something on TV, and I have an opinion about it. Well, not necessarily an opinion, but thoughts. Okay. And so I guess it is an opinion of what I think I see, person. You and your ex-wife, y'all had a reality TV show. Did you feel like having a reality TV show ultimately affect you? your marriage in a negative way? No, I don't think that was it at all

because, Dre, I was never all in. Because, and I produced it. So I was the executive producer and produced it. I went to Turner. Because at the time in my household, my daughter, who's now on NCILS in L.A., and she's L.L.K.J.'s daughter on the show. So she's done like 10, 12 episodes.

My other daughter just finished a Disney movie, and my ex was, she wanted to be in television. So I was like, as a man, whenever all of those things are in your household, you're like, how can I help? You know? And I was like, absolutely. I was like, look, I don't want to do this.

I'm doing this for you guys. So I'm just going to shine light on you guys so it can possibly help propel your career. And through that, that show got my daughter a record, You got my other daughter managing. So it did move in the right directions. Because I was never, I was never going to hear like, I'm like Biggie. I'm old school.

I'm like, problem with my wife, don't discuss them. Leah Jess, I lost him. You know what I mean? So you're never going to see any of that. And that's why we only did one season because you're never going to see any of that. I think that if there was one reason or anyone, if you have a girlfriend, an ex, a wife, ex-wife, ex-wife, there's one reason why y'all not together, you would still be together.

There's never one reason. It's got to be a multiple multitude of things to end something so big with families involved and, you know, friends are involved, her friends and your friends, the other, like, it's got to be a multitude of things. They could be a multitude of small things, but there's a multitude.

But yeah, I don't think that. Actually, that was fun. And I'll hit you on this because my kids were going to college, my older kids. So it was the first time that they were back, everybody was back in the house for the first time. So we were playing board games. So we were telling stories that we had forgotten.

So that actually helped. It goes longer than it probably should have. It probably, it helped go longer because of that. we became a little bit more of a unit again. And so there it is. Do you have any regrets as far as your marriage goes? I mean, not really, honestly, because I really believe,

for me, when I hear people, from where we come from, when you hear about the voice, you hear like, oh, he was cheating, she was cheating, somebody was fighting, somebody beat somebody else. When none of those things happen, I'm always in the mindset of like, oh, we still going to work

because none of those things were at play. So now I'm like, I had to get out of my Queens Lefract City mode and say, what? This is why? This is not like, you know what I mean? Because

Lefract City, kitty is different from the kitty that was here, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, what? There's none of this, none of that, none of this. We're not feeling good about each other? that was a that was I had to get into like another space of intellect that I probably will help me in the future because where I come from those are the only three things that you get you know you don't you don't that's not your girl no more forget why that ain't my girl because I cheated on we or she's fight she cheated on me or fight or we just argue it all day that's the only reason so for me that that level of of intelligence to kind of come to and have more of an emotional intelligence about it. But what I always realize, Dre, is in life, when you, when you, this is when I feel good

about myself. And it wasn't really just her, but just in general, when I realized, like, I'm great for me, I'm good enough for me. But I don't have to be good enough for Drema. And when you can, like, it's easy set to none, but when you can. accept that? You're like, oh, life is good. Like, you walk around smiling all the time and people like, man, yo, you still, how you look so young? And that I'm like, yo, because I'll smile a lot, bro. Because I know I'm okay with not being good enough or just being good enough for me. I'm okay with that. I respect. I got a few more questions. We've been going for an hour. Be conscious of your time.

No, we're good. Yeah. And two of them are advice and then one, I want your opinion on something. because it's something that's very close to me and then very close to you. But that's going to be the last one. Number one is, what would your advice be to me? Someone that's... Actually, I got four more questions. What would your advice be to me?

Someone that's looking to go into television when I'm done playing. What is something that... What would your advice be? And what's something that you would have done differently than you actually did? For you, I would say my advice for you, is the more you win now on your way out in the last five, six years of this career,

the more longer your television career will be. So now you've established yourself as the guy who we can talk to, not just about the game, but about politics, about social issues. Everyone else has already established that, you know. So now the more you win is the more insight you have on everything else, because you're going to have one as a young player, you're going to be one of young as a great player, you're going to learn as the best player,

you're going to love as the best defender, then you're going to learn, you're going to be as a minimum role how to win. So you're going to be able to talk to about everybody and how they feel in a locker room and nobody else will be able to do what you do. So the more you win now, so now my focus would be, let me lock in,

or how do we win more championships? because my role is so different from when I was, like when you first got there, it's like, yo, if Drain don't get 12 rebounds and 16 points, they might not win. Now it's like if he don't like, then it became, if he don't lock down the guy and get 12. Now every, your role just,

so you're going to know what every player feels. And to me, win more. And the more you win, when you be doing this for 30 years, you'll be like, oh, Kenney said 20, I did it 30. Like, because you'll have a, the insight when everybody's talking about something, they go, no, I think that's one of the values that I have right now. I was in high school, McDonnell-American, voted top 35 player ever

in high school basketball. You get a ball for that. I looked on that ball. I was like Shaq and KG and Kyrie. I'm like, damn, I'm on a crazy ball, right? College, I was a college player to year. McDonald's, I mean, player to year in college. and playing out a story program. One, two NBA championships. And then also at the end of the career, I was like, oh, damn, my role is so diminished. So now I know, I had never had a D&P

until my 10th year in the league. Wow. I had never, Drake, I had never not started on a team ever until my ninth year in the league. I had never come off the bench. High school, college, or pro? Until my ninth year in the league. So I used to, I got a different appreciation in my last year and a half about guys,

how they come off the bench, how they might not play that night. Like, I was like, holy shit, this is it. I was like, oh, my God, I used to laugh at these dudes and ask them, why they're not ready. How'd you come in the game and you're not excited? I understood it. You're going to understand what champion's thing. So did that, did it, did it really? affect you in a negative way in that ninth season once you realize you were coming off the bench?

Like, what was your attitude? What was your mindset initially? I thought I could always contribute until it was one. You know, they say there's one play. It was one play for me. Dre, when I used to get a steal, right? I get the steal. You know, you take a picture to see who's tracing you. And I would see guys like, and about my ninth year in the league, I saw guys doing that. this. I'm like, damn, they think they could catch me. And then they were catching me. Like, make it lay up. I have to do where before I was just going and I'm dunking, I couldn't.

I'm like, damn, I can't dunk it. I can't, I can't break it. I'm like, it's time to give it up. Because no matter how much money you make, the feeling of feeling inferior, yes, there's no value on that. And I was starting to feel inferior. And whenever I feel inferior in anything, I'm like, I cannot be part of this. And I had another deal. The Spurs called me and were like, oh, you want to come beat back up for A.B. Johnson? I was like, no, I do not want to feel inferior.

And there was the best decision I made because I stayed at T&T. So in your mind, what Russell Westbrook is doing is honorable. But I don't know if he's feeling inferior yet. But he's playing well, and he's taking on that role. No, but he's playing really well. And in terms of, you know, getting to the rim,

he still gets there. I don't know if he's at that point. I think Alan Iverson got there where he was probably like, yo, I can't get by people like I used to with the crossover. You know, Russ is about another year away from that. But what he's doing and his mental fortitude to live in Los Angeles, be from Los Angeles, and they make every game like it's a playoff game, every play is like a playoff play,

and still have the energy and the excitement to play, I've never seen that. No. I don't think I could do that. I would be like trade me. I just couldn't do that in that environment, knowing that. And see, knowing that the guy in front of me,

I'm better than him. Like, he really knows he's better than the guy in front of him. Absolutely. And the guy in front of him knows he's better than him. 100%. And I commend him for that. I don't think. And that's why I asked that.

I don't think people are speaking enough about what he's doing. The way people were beating him down about not wanting to come off the bench. Now he's accepted and he's playing well and all of a sudden it's not even a story anymore. Not even story. That be my problem when I speak of new media.

That be my problem with media. It's like, that's bullshit. This man was getting destroyed. And I'm being destroyed by everybody taking hits at his character. which I think he's a very high character individual, getting destroyed. And then he does exactly what everyone says he needs to do,

take on that role, playing as good as any six-man in the NBA right now, and it's not a story. That's bullshit. Yeah, 100%. Because he's a guy at one time, he couldn't even yawn on the bench. Yes.

Now, you know how when you're on the bench, this happens to every player, and what I realized when about 50 in the league, the yawning is from you needing oxygen. It's not from you being tired sometime. And so, you know, you're like, you're sitting on the bench, you know,

if he did that, it would have been all over, Russell Grasswood board with the game. Like, no, if you keep a camera and every NBA player has done that and does that all the time. You're playing four games at five night. You need oxygen and you're going to yawn

and the excitement and the energy of the arena makes you yon. on. They, like, that happens. It's not only because you're tired, but he couldn't do it. And I commend him. It is bullshit.

I think what do you make of player-driven media? I've gotten the media, Patrick Bramley, C.J. McCullough. But a lot of guys are starting to do podcasts. A lot of guys are starting to do different things. What do you make of the player-driven media side? Obviously, you still have traditional media. But what do you make of the player-driven media movement that's been taking place over the last two years.

I don't know how you do it. I didn't have the mental fortitude to do what you do, honestly, because I took things to heart. So when I used to go on talk radio and, you know, and I call in, they'd be like, hey, we want you to have you on. I'd be like, I'm not taking callers. Like, why? Because I don't want John from Indiana who's sitting in his basement

to ask me a question and affects my psyche of the game, who has no idea. I'm like, you're supposed to be an expert. I like your show. I'll come on. You allow yourself to be open to guys who do not know basketball. Like, they have no clue. And you answer questions or answer their comments. I just, I don't have thick enough skin.

I'm not going to lie. I just would, it would affect me in a negative way to where it would affect my play. Like, for you, I don't know how you and CJ do it because neither one. and CJ is still getting 25, 30, like, you're doing it. I couldn't do that because I just felt that people just don't know enough. I agree. I mean, people don't know enough, and I speak on that all the time, just how everyone thinks they know basketball.

Like a basketball. But the question after you, Dre, is, like, why, my question is you is you, is why would you allow? Miles Davis, Jay-Z. We are that. We are your most unique people in the world. Jay-Z's not letting somebody come in a session and tell him how to run.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you're a rap fan, but you don't know cadence. You don't know how to get there. You don't know beats. You don't know the percussion, how it makes. You have no clue. How do you do that every day and allow that to happen?

I don't even do that at T&T. Like, how do you do that? that? I think for me, number one is, I think for me, it's about what you get out of it, right? Like, for the most part, I get a laugh out of it. Like, I think, like, what I take from it is different lessons of how dumb people are. I feel like it allows me to operate in my everyday life, because you are very dumb if you think, you know basketball as well as me. If you know basketball as well as you, as you know basketball. It shows me how dumb you are because you think you can watch this maybe two games a day

or, you know, and no one really watched two games a day, but you think you can consume basketball the little amount that you do and your understanding of what's going on is as good as my understanding. I feel like it helps me in a lot of different areas in life because it gives me a perspective. Because the thing is like what most people to understand is I don't care who's one of the greatest basketball fans In three hours you've consumed more basketball

Than they will in three months Because you've gone to practice You've watched film You've watched the other team You've watched your game You've lifted You've getting prepared You're doing like nine things

Consumed about basketball And they're watching one game So in three hours You've done more than most people done in three months. I can't talk to people like that. I just don't have the patience for that. I just don't. I can answer like a barbershop called, you know,

LeBron or Jordan, but I'm not talking about how do you think Draymond Green affects the... No, we're not getting into that. We're not getting into that. We're not getting to. Facts, facts. No doubt. Before we get out of here, man, I got one last question I want to ask you. Like I said, it's one that obviously affected me in my life, but, you know, in the relationship that I still have with him, but also you hold a relationship with him as well. What do you make that here we are 11 years later,

Mark Jackson took a franchise that had no success, goes to two straight playoffs, and gets fired. Now, you can make what you want of him getting fired. Everyone can. That's neither here nor there. You got fired, teams move on, And quite frankly, it's hard to say they made the wrong decision.

We went a championship the next year. Now, you can make the argument that, hey, they would have won if Mark was there next year, too. All right, maybe you believe it. Maybe you don't. Who cares? But what do you make of him not getting a job as an NBA head coach? It's been 11 years now. He's still not a head coach.

Or, well, nine since he's been out. So it's nine years since he's been out. He's still not a head coach. And if I'm looking at this, I'm like, well, I watch him go with a young Steph Curry, young Clay Thompson, young Draymond Green. And if he did nothing else, he gave those guys confidence. Well, guess what? Half the teams in the league need someone who can go give their guys confidence,

who can show them the way young guys, you look at all these teams of super young guys, and he hasn't gotten that opportunity. What do you make of that? I just think that. There were facts that were lied upon, and there were lies that now became facts. So there's a, the message of now each year the lie gets bigger and the facts get smaller. So there are lies about Mark Jackson right now that I hear and they go, yo, hey, your boy did this and what? Your boy said that and I'm like, no, that's a lie.

I speak to the dude every day. I speak to Mark at least once a week. Like, no, Mike Mock doesn't think like that. He didn't say, oh, he didn't do that. Oh, this was a fact. And then it gets lied on. So now as an owner or general manager, they're hearing the lies.

And they're not doing the research to find the truth. Because the truth would say exactly what you said. Are there coaches that have done things that you would say, man, why'd you do it that way? Of course, every coach. You probably could do that with Steve. But then when you add lies to it, there's no one to defend the lie.

And that's the problem. There's no one there to defend the lie on his behalf. And Mark is choosing not to defend the lie. And I would defend the lie all day. I'd be on, you see me on every stage. I'm like, yo, he's lying. He did this. And this is actually what happened.

And so, but in terms of coaching and basketball knowledge and seeing what he, I saw him got out of you and Steph. And Steph Curry before he got there, did not play in the fourth quarters of games. They used to play Monte Ellis. And they would say Steph could not play in the fourth quarters because defensively he could not handle that. I used to watch the Golden State Warriors,

and they used to say that. And he was going to be traded. Yeah. No. He was definitely going to. to be traded. He was going to be traded until Mar Jackson got there. He saved not only the

franchise, he saved the league. Like you think of Steph Curry is not, he saved basketball by making this dude what he is and allow him to be who he was. He saved basketball and changed the culture of the way we play today based on way Steph plays.

But someone had to have the vision to allow that to happen. He was the vision. He He was not doing that before he got there. Neither were you. There was no undersized, power forwards, doing what you do. Clay Thompson didn't have the free reign they do. It's a travesty that he's not coaching basketball.

I mean, I agree. I know what he did. I always tell people, you can look around the league. You have coaches that give guys confidence, and you have coaches that takes confidence. And he is somebody that gave us, if nothing else, the ultimate confidence. Everybody thought he was crazy.

Check this out. I came to you guys' game, and he bought me in a locker room, right? I definitely remember. When he was coaching. And he's speaking to the team, and he goes, Kenny, I just want you to see the team

that's going to be standing in the White House. I definitely remember that. And here y'all are, the other last week, again, standing in the White House. Yesterday. And I said, I said, Mark, when you gave that problem,

officer, you should have said, standing in the White House with me. You didn't add me to it. That's why it still happened. You didn't add to me because when he said it, I walked out of you and I was like, these dudes ain't going to know. NBA final. I honestly said that in my mind. I was like, these dudes, Clay and Steph don't shoot like that.

That's dude, Draymond, don't defend like that. All this stuff he's telling me, I'm like, and here we are. Five with him. Maybe she's later. I remember he said and everybody went crazy and he said I have the greatest shooting back court

of all the time. Everybody like, why would he say that? Blah, blah, blah. And he's like, no, I'm telling you, I got the greatest shooting back court of all time for someone to say that. When it wasn't even if somebody went on TV.

If nobody at work to prove that. No, not at all. If someone did that now, just in a TV position and said, this is going to be the greatest back cornerball time. And then four years later, you're looking at it. You're like, wow, they have a job like that.

Just by saying it on TV. Just by saying it on TV. 100%. It's actually coaching that. It's actually coaching that. So, nah, man, you know, I got mad love for coach Mark Jackson. That's my first coach in this league. But my brother, I appreciate you for coming on the show.

Man, this was fun, man. Hour and 20 minutes, bro. And I can go on and on. We can do this again. I appreciate you. And we most definitely will. All right. All right.

I appreciate you, brother.