The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show - The Harden-Simmons Trade + a Fred VanVleet Interview

Episode Date: February 17, 2022

To start episode 13 of ‘The Draymond Green Show’ Draymond breaks down the James Harden for Ben Simmons and Seth Curry trade that the 76ers and Nets made. Then he discusses the Kristaps Porzingis trade as well as why he thinks Aaron Donald should’ve won Super Bowl MVP over Cooper Kupp. Then Draymond welcomes Toronto Raptors All-Star Fred VanVleet joins ‘The Draymond Green Show’ to discuss his mindset coming in as an undrafted player, the benefits of playing alongside Kyle Lowry, his angle of the Kawhi shot against the 76ers, the Finals against Draymond and the Warriors, and much more.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is our 13th. episode. And it's a week before the All-Star game, All-Star break for us, but obviously the All-Star game for all the fans that take part in that weekend is always a great weekend, a lot of fun, very exciting. But like I said, it's a week before the All-Star game. And in honor of that, we are having another All-Star, another first-time All-Star. Obviously, last week, we had Darius Garland, who's also a first-time All-Star from the Eastern Conference as well. And we will talk about all types of stuff. This will be a dead giveaway, but we're going to talk about the Raptors and the Warriors

in the 2019 finals and how I know that if Clay didn't get hurt, even with Kevin getting hurt, because if Kevin didn't get hurt, the reality is, as we all know the reality, if Clay didn't get hurt, even after Kevin got hurt, we still would have won. And it's not that we didn't need Kevin because we definitely. needed Kevin. As you can see, in that game five, Kevin, I think we may have had 40 points with six minutes to go in the first quarter when Kevin came out and played in that game. So, like, we all know, but Clay was having one of them game sixes like he told me he was going to have and he got hurt and we couldn't quite close it out. But it's all good. We're going to discuss

that. And I can't wait for you. you guys to hear Freya's taking what he feel about it, but also how things changed about him as well. So I think that'll be an exciting interview, a very fun interview, and just a different perspective from a guy who's now an All-Star and really got it out of the mud undrafted. So looking forward to having Fred Van Fleet on the show later today. But first, as you know, we got to go around the association and the NFL and talk all things. from those leagues. So, of course, we have not spoke,

or I haven't gotten a chance to share my thoughts with you guys since James Hardin and Ben Simmons' trade happened. Obviously, that was one. We were all wondering, like, man, is this really going to happen before the deadline? Then you kind of heard it would. Then you heard it wouldn't. Then you heard it would.

And then it's like, oh, yep, they broke off talks. And then boom, there it is. James Harden is traded. James Harden and Paul Millsap gets traded to the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond, and two first round picks. I was shocked by how much the 76ers gave up. And not that James Hardin isn't great,

because just what felt like to me was James Hardin no longer wanted to be in Brooklyn, and James Harden wanted to be in Philly. All things pointed towards that. And that's what the reports were. And that's what it felt like to me. It also felt to me as if, obviously, with all Ben's issues, he's dealt with as far as his disdain with the team

and how he was treated by Joel, by Doc Rivers. In the press conference, everybody spoke about that. And it's been a very public thing after the play, last year, how he felt he was treated by the fans. But more importantly, his mental health. And, you know, that goes beyond basketball when you're talking mental health. And so most importantly, his mental health, you knew he needed something fresh. He needed something new.

And you knew that was kind of what everybody had been expecting all year. When will Ben Simmons get traded? It's not if it's just a matter of time. When will Philadelphia 76th is finally accept a package? And the reality is, I think they ultimately got exactly what they wanted. Daryl Morey and James Hardin are close. Daryl Morey brought James Hardin to Houston. Daryl Morey believed in James Hardin as a cornerstone of a franchise.

before just about anybody else did. You know, they have that report. They have done some great things together. They could never get past us, but they were right there every year. And so to see them get back together, along with Joel, along with Doc Rivers, I think that's what they wanted.

And it's, you know, you had even heard about it when Houston, when James Hart was still in Houston, that he would possibly get traded for Ben Simmons then. And that was before we had heard about, the things that were going on with Ben, this was a whole year prior. And so to see him finally get to where he wanted to be or where it seemed as if he wanted to be before, and then the whole Nets thing kind of came up and out of nowhere.

To see Ben get back to a situation of where he could play, I mean, I'm always happy to see guys get what they want. Ultimately, if that's what you want, go after it. I'm always happy to see it. But I must say I was shocked. that Philly were willing to give up Seth Curry and two first round picks.

I was really shocked by that because, like, this first round pick may be nothing. You know, I mean, nothing. There's great players drafted, 27, 28, 29, 30, like, I was 35. So, I mean, the picks can still mean the picks can still mean something

depending on who's drafted and how they evaluate talent. but it won't be a top five pick, it won't be a top 10 pick, it won't be a top 15 pick. And so this year, okay. But in 2007, I mean, that's five years from now. At that point, James Hardin is 37. Joel Embed is 33, 34.

Like, you don't, you don't, it's a lot more uncertainty with that. than it is with the 2022 pick. And so I was a little shocked to see how much they gave up. And like I said, even bigger than the picks for me was Seth Curry. Like I just didn't think Philly would be trade in Seth Curry, especially the way James Hardin plays. You've seen shooters around him that can catch and knock the shot down.

And with Joel Embed, I mean, you always want to pair a big man with a shooter. Just in case they're trying to double team in, you can't help off Seth Curry. So that takes one guy out of the picture. And so with them putting that team together, I was really shocked that they gave up Seth Curry. But ultimately, you know, then it comes down to negotiating. And maybe the Brooklyn Nets knew they don't want to give up Seth Curry, but they really want James Harder.

So ultimately, I can hold them hostage by just saying, you have to give me Seth Curry. And if that gets the deal done and James Hardin is really your guy, which you know he's really Philly's guy, then maybe that's how that happened and that's how, you know, I think Brooklyn won that battle. And so I'm excited to see Ben play with Kevin Durant

and Kyrie Irvin, I think, and Seth Curry and Patty Mills. Like you give a player with Ben's playmaking ability with his speed, the way he can pass the ball, his court vision. You give a player all of those weapons with his skill set. I'm excited to see how this,

turns out for him. And then, you know, we play in a copycat league when someone has success, everyone tries to follow it, which is why the NBA is the way it is today, because the Warriors has success playing a certain way and everyone follows it. That's just the way this league works. And Philly is now back to your traditional great big man, great guard. And that's what the league used to be. You think Shaq Kobe, you think Penny and Shaq. And like, you think David Robinson and Tim Duncan was a little different story. They were two, two, two, Twin Towers. But you know, you can go around the NBA for years, Magic and Kareem.

Like, it goes back. Great guard, great big man. That's kind of where you started building your team and then you built out from there. And it's interesting to see the way James Harden has typically played over the last five, six years, especially with Darry at the helm making all the decisions. he's played a certain style of basketball. Joel has gotten a custom playing to a certain style of basketball, both great players, so I don't not think they can mesh.

Like, I definitely think they can mesh. But it'll be interesting to see them go back to a great guard and a great big man and see what type of success that they have because the league, you know, everything comes back around. You got small ball, you got two big men. Like, everything comes back around. You always hear in fashion. Like fashion never goes out of stuff.

It always come back around. And so I'm interested to see now with them back to a more traditional look how that works. If it ultimately works, does everyone start copying that again? Because, again, we do play in the copycat league. So that was kind of my take on the Harden and Simmons trade. In my opinion, the Brooklyn Ness definitely won the trade. And not because James Hardin isn't great because the Brooklyn Ness also got an all-star. and on top of that, they added probably the top three-point shooter in the NBA as far as

percentage goes. I'm not sure if he's leading the league in percentage this year. If he's not, he's probably right up there at the top, but as you can look back to the last four years, he's been one or two. And so that's what I thought really gave them the edge in that trade. And so we'll see how it plays out. But one thing for certain is both of those teams got way stronger through that trade and made the Eastern Conference a lot tough.

And so it's going to be interesting to see the Eastern Conference come playoff time with the Miami Heat with the Milwaukee. I'm sorry, Milwaukee Bucks should always be mentioned first. They're the defending champion. The Milwaukee Bucks, the Miami Heat, the Brooklyn Nets, the Philadelphia 76ers. You got the Toronto Raptors with championship DNA between Fred Van Fleet and Pascal Seaccom and O.G. Onobey. And so they have that championship DNA, so you can't just count them. out and you know they're not going to fear, they're going to come in, they're going to play

hard, and they're always a tough matchup. And so it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the Eastern Conference, because I think that trade, it really strengthened those two teams, which ultimately strengthened the conference, and not to forget the up-and-coming Cleveland Cavaliers, who our last week's guest, DG, said, y'all better watch out because they're not looking at the future. They're looking at now, you know, and so the Eastern Conference, man, there's going to be some great playoff series over there. And speaking of the Eastern Conference,

we also saw Porzengis traded to the Washington Wizards for Davis Bertans and Spencer Dinwiddie. That was a very interesting trade for me, and the reason that was an interesting trade, because, number one, they brought Spencer Denwitty in this summer as their starring point guard. And for someone that is coming off of an ACL injury, just now getting back to point.

and for the mission to be aborted in like the first three or four months of the partnership, that was shocking for me because early on in the season they were playing well. You know, then you had COVID stuff and, you know, we all face COVID, but then you had COVID stuff. You had people missing time due to injury. And then the mission was kind of aborted. So you never truly know what it could have become. Maybe they saw something that the rest of us didn't see.

But in that trade, Porzinger is going to Washington. I'm also interested to see how that work out because I think Kyle Kuzma is playing some of the best basketball of his career and all around basketball. He's rebounding great. He's passing the ball, great, he's scoring the bar great. And so the growth that Kyle Kuzma has had

in his career, and especially the next step that he's taken and playing for Washington this year, he's been playing the four spot. And so, you know, you bring Porzinius in, Prozinger has played some four, he has played some five, but then you also have some good young biz. I think Thomas Bryant just went down with the injury again,

not sure how significant the injury is. But then you also have Daniel Gaffert, who they signed to a contract. And so I'm just interested to see how that plays out. And you have Danny Avidja also there at the three spot. And so where does Kuzma fit in and that? because Kuzma is having an incredible year. Does Porzinger play the five?

Like, I have all of these questions, and I'm excited, you know, even the first couple games that's played. Like, it's impossible to figure out then. Like, those things will play out over the course of time. It won't happen in a week. And so I'm just excited to see what will come of that trade. Porzinger's tenure in Dallas wasn't the best.

It's kind of felt like he was going to be on the mood the last couple years and to finally see him traded. I hope to see him get back to the player that he once was. It felt like that poor Zingis was coming back to start of this year and then COVID happened for him and some injury stuff. And so I'm interested to see if he'll get back to the level that we saw him at at the New York Knicks, you know, when he earned a name the unicorn because he was playing some incredible basketball. And you always want to see guys at their best and being able to get back to that to what was the mountain top for them, you know, and their purpose.

peak form. So it'll be interesting to see. And Dallas obviously added another guard. I'm sure Spencer Dinwiddie will come off the bench for Dallas. But they added another quality guard off the bench. And then they added another shooting big in Bertans. And with the way Luca Donchus plays, Luca Donchus has the ball a lot. He's created for everyone. You can't help off David Bertrands. He has one of the purest jump shots in the league. And so I thought that was a great ad by Nico Harrison, new GM of the Dallas Mavericks. I thought that was an incredible trade. Trade of the guy who still has some value and didn't quite work out for them. He didn't, I think one thing that you see in great GMs around the league, and obviously

this is Nico's first tenure, but one thing you see in great GMs is they know when to move on. Like, you don't hold on to the problem and compound the problem, not that I'm saying Porzingis was a problem, but he was a problem in Dallas, not that he was a problem child. Like, it just wasn't working. Like, it wasn't working for him. It wasn't working for them. But yet, they still have a thing that can't works, and he still has a game that can't work.

And so to see the two officially part ways, I thought that was a great job by Nico. And like I said, you just see some people hold on to things way longer, and then they lose value. And so they got some pieces that they can add into an already good basketball. club. I thought that was a great move by them. And we'll see what comes of it for both of those teams. But I thought it was a pretty good move by both of them. And then finally, before we get to the Fred Van Fleet interview, as we spoke a little bit about briefly, the St. Louis, psych. The L.A. Rams won the Super Bowl was incredible. So first off, I want to talk about the champs, the Super Bowl,

to L.A. Rams. There's been a lot of talk that Aaron Donald should have won the MVP. Cooper Cup had one of the best seasons statistically that a wide receiver has ever had. And he had a great game. Can't take anything from him. But I personally thought, and especially as a defensive guy, I personally thought Aaron Donald should have won the MVP. He controlled the line of scrimmage, which if you know anything about football, controlling the trenches, it's just as important as a quarterback playing well. We've seen guys control games and only a select few of guys control games

from the defensive end spot. We've seen Vaughn Miller do it and win a Super Bowl with the Denver Broncos. And obviously they had one of the goats, Peyton Manning as quarterback, but that was also in Payton's later year. Von Miller really could control the game from the defensive end spot.

And he's starting to get back to that forum, as you can see, in the Super Bowl, and ending his time with the Rams this season. Reggie White obviously could control a game from the defensive end spot. Lawrence Taylor could obviously control the game from the defensive end spot. Aaron Donald is a defensive tackle,

and he can control a game from the defensive tackle spot as he did in that Super Bowl. I mean, he had three sacks. And, I mean, like, let's put that into some basketball numbers for those that don't understand football. him having three sacks in the Super Bowl is like, him having two sacks in the Super Bowl is like having 26 points. Him getting that third sack to close the game out

is like having 34 points and a game winner. If a guy have 34 points in the game seven of the NBA finals, now granted, it's a little skew because there's more games than NBA finals, but let's say that guy has had a pretty good NBA finals. and then he finished the game with 34 points and a game winner in game seven. That guy is going to walk away with finals MVP. That's what Aaron Donald just did. He finished the game with 34 points and he hit the game winner.

And he did not walk away with the MVP because it's so hard for defensive guys in any sport to get the recognition that they deserve. And so I, like I said, I can't take anything from Cooper Cup away. because he had an incredible year and an incredible game. So well deserved, but I definitely think Aaron Donald should have and could have gotten an MVP. And the reality is you're not going to see that often.

Like, the next time we'll see a defensive guy other than Aaron Donald control a game like that and actually be deserving of MVP, like, who knows when we'll see that again? Like, you got to reward guys when it's there. And so I don't know. I thought that there would be a high chance that he wouldn't get it because that's how people operate.

But, and it actually happens. So I will see. Another year goes by, another defensive guy, a defensive guy can't get the MVP at a Super Bowl. But they got the most important thing, which was a ring. I want to send a bunch of love to OBJ. I spoke about this before. like some guys need bright lights.

Like a lot of people you put them under the bright lights, they fold. There's a very select few of guys that you put them under the bright lights and they get better. And OBJ is one of those guys. You put him in the brightest of lights and he's shone like the brightest of stars. I mean, he had two receptions for 52 yards in a touchdown. Was about to have another 15 to 20 yards on the reception that he dropped where he tore his ACL. that right there, I think it was still the first quarter, would have been three catches 75 yards in a touchdown.

He was also very well on his way to MVP, but just sent a bunch of love, a speedy recovery to OBJ. You never want to see a guy get injured. And for a guy who's went through what he's going through and seems as if he's found his purpose, he's found himself, he's found a woman for him. He's about to welcome a child into his first child into this world with his woman.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

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you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so.

Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So many things going for him. And to see him even flourish in that moment and for it to abruptly end like that, it sucked. It definitely sucked. But he's a he's a Super Bowl champion. And I'm looking forward to him getting back out there next year. and reproving all over again who he is, why he is who he is, because he's just a special talent like that.

And like I said, when the lights get the brightest, he shone like the brightest of stars. And some guys just need that. And I respect guys that when that level raise up, their play go to another level because it's a very rare thing in sports. But in saying that, like I said before, we have another all-star, another first-time all-star, as we did last week. I am excited to welcome him to the show,

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I know most of y'all won't know that. And what you will know him as is a guy who absolutely destroyed us in the NBA finals, who I still don't appreciate that. I can't say that I do cost me a ring. But I definitely appreciate. his road to becoming who he's become. Undrafted out of Wichita State.

I wasn't undrafted, but I definitely understand the mindset that comes with being looked over. You're talking a guy who led his team to the Final Four as a freshman, which, if I'm not mistaken, I think they became the fifth team with the C hired in the A-C to actually play in the Final Four. and then the following year came back.

A sophomore year led his team to the first 31-on-old record in NCAA history. He finished college as a three-time AP honorable mention All-American, two-time MVC player the year, and three-time first team, all-MVC player. Fred Van Fleet of the Toronto Raptors, what's up, my brother? Man, thanks for having me. You do a good intro, bro. and take you on the road with me.

I appreciate it, man. No, and obviously we just spoke about you being undrafted, and you came out, you played Summer League with the Raptors. What was your mindset in coming out? Because I know for me, like, I won national player of the year, and then I got drafted in the 35th pick, and I know how that fuel me. What was your mindset coming out into that first Summer League with the Raptors?

Yeah, it was real similar. You know, always been a student of the game, and it's funny that you say that because I actually, actually remember you speaking on, like, having a list of the guys that went before you, you know, and you probably still remember those names, you know what I'm saying? So, like, it was the same for me. I just, I put the guys that, that went before me at my position. And I kind of looked and said, you know, who I got to be better than, who do I have to outperform? And I just went into it with that mindset. But from day one, after I didn't get drafted, it was just like, let's make the

team. Let's get the camp. Let's make the team. And I know that once I'm on the team, team. I know what I'm going to do in practice every day. I know that I'm going to continue to get better and I'm going to have a chance to grow. So I was just focused on like, what would it take to actually make the roster? And your rookie year, you played 31 games, but your second year, that's when you kind of started to break out. You shot over 40% from three. And you were nominated for six men of the year. How was that growth for you going from your first year to your second year and actually starting to come into your own? Yeah, well, making the team my rookie year, we had three point guards.

It was Kyle, Corey Joseph, and then the line right. So I was kind of stuck in that where, you know, I think I was good enough to play my rookie year. I just, I needed to get better. I needed some experience. I needed to become a better shooter. And those are the things that I did. And then my second year, we had a chance where we had a good bench.

And that bench unit got some, you know, sustainable minutes throughout the course of the year. I started picking up guys full court, made some. some shots. And Casey actually like having two point guards out there. So I started finishing some games, you know, my second year where I was playing in the fourth quarter, get an opportunity to make some of the shots. I get a chance to guard some of the better guys. So as my opportunity just kept growing, I just try to, you know, keep getting better along the way. And it allowed me to take advantage of some of those moments. Absolutely. And I want to continue to talk about

your pro career. But I have to ask you, and I know we just spoke on this, a little bit, but as someone that was overlooked, like, do you coming out of college, you're one of the most decorated college players ever. Like, you had one of the better careers ever. Do you feel like you

get enough credit for that? No, because it always gets twisted as the undrafted. So it's kind of like, once you say undrafted, people forget that, you know, kind of what I went through and what I put on the table about four years of school. And there's, you know, the narratives

in the perspective of how we look at pro players has changed so much. But, you know, once upon a time going to school for four years and going to the tournament every year, going to Final Fours and winning trophies and cutting down Nests, that meant something. And it definitely meant something to me. I think I'm better for it the way that, you know, I had to go through it. I was so mature and just ready to be a pro once I, you know, became an NBA player. But I definitely don't get that look or that nod because, one,

I was in a smaller conference, and two, once you put the stamp of undrafted, it's just like, okay, he must not have been very good before he got to this point. Absolutely. And in reality, some of these talent evaluators just not very good. No one wants to talk about that side of it. Yeah, they don't know everything. Absolutely. And, you know, you don't know what you don't know.

But you also, you just spoke about having four point guards on the roster when you made the team with the Raptors. And I want to talk about one of them, and specifically a guy who I've had the opportunity to play with and win a gold medal with Kyle Lari. What benefit they're playing next to a guy like Carl Lari have on you? Well, we're so similar in so many different ways that without even knowing each other, you know what I mean? Just obviously I studied this guy as a kid. Like, you know, I'm 10, you know, Kyle got a few years on me, y'all, y'all a little bit older than me. So I was watching him in college. I was watching them study in the game.

and guys around my size and stature. And so for me to get next to him, I kind of already knew, like, how he played, and he learned how I played, and I'm watching him every day. We're working out together. He's let me shoot with him in the morning and joining his workouts and just staying next to him,

talking to him in timeouts. I'm sitting next to him in the locker room. Like, I'm just a sponge. I'm trying to learn as much as I can from him. And then once I was able to get out there on a court with him, I think we just made our lives easier for each other, and we kind of could read each other without even thinking. especially after we had some time in.

So defensively, offensively, like I knew what he was going to do. He knew what I was going to do. And it was just a huge bonus and just a benefit to be able to play with that guy. Absolutely. And I want to talk about this, this daunted 2019 playoff run that she was a part of. Before we get into the NBA finals, your first two series of that playoffs run, you couldn't throw the ball in the ocean. Not at all.

You then have a son. You have your son, and I don't think you've missed the shot since. And it seemed like everything flipped for you. Like, if you just, and I knew about the timing of it then, but for anybody who don't know, like, if you go back,

and you can follow it along in the articles, If you go back to that run and then you go and look at the date of Fred just had a son and you see what happened from there. Do you feel like that changed from you? Was it coincidental? Was it just the energy that little friend brought?

What was it? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely all of the above. Like, I'm not that proud to say that, you know, it definitely is all of the day above because I have an explanation for why it wasn't going that way. You know, as we can always explain why we're struggling and, you know, coach ain't calling the right plays and the rotation short. And, you know, again, it's matchups.

That Philly series was not a good series for me to be in. That was a big, nasty physical team. You know, we wasn't running a lot of ball screens. But I had some pressure on me. You know what I'm saying? My girl's pregnant. I'm out here trying to play in the playoffs. And I can't be with my family.

And they was home. I was in Toronto. So it was a lot of stuff going on. But once, you know, everything clicked at the right time. And him being born was like the. catalyst. It was like the start of it. My son being born, I went home. I got to hold them. I got to see my daughter. I got to be around my family for a second. Fresh mind, new series. We started playing different. Like, we got better throughout the playoffs. And, you know, we, once we clicked,

it was like, we were pretty much playing, like, excellent basketball for the rest of those, what, three, four weeks that was left. So it was a perfect storm for sure. Absolutely. And speaking of Philly and that team, I've watched that shot over a million times in part due to, I feel like if that shot didn't go in, it was what it is. So I've gone back and watched that shot. And you were actually on the bench when that shot happened, which is crazy. Because if you think about that finals run and the run that y'all had to go on and win a championship, one wouldn't be able to see you not being in the game at the end of the game at any point in that run,

but it kind of just goes to show what you're saying about your rotations. But you're like right in the corner of Kauai shot. What were you thinking on that play? Because I didn't think it was a chance it was going in. No, it looked off left. It looked off left because I'm looking at it and you can see it go and look off like it was going to go off to the left towards the middle of the lane.

And once we saw a bounce, bounce twice, it was like, oh, this shit going in. It's going in. You know what I mean? It was just like, bro, that was the craziest amount of emotion because for me, personally, I'm like, yes, I get another series. Like, I get another chance to play better. I didn't want my season to end, you know what I mean, with that performance on the table. So I think we was all just relieved just to get out of that series and move on to the next one

because that was a really tough series. I mean, we blew them out. They blew us out. we had to go there and play. Like, that was a hard for a series. Absolutely. And talk to me a little more about, like, the pressure that you're feeling. Like you just said, I don't want this to end on that series.

And I know what most people don't understand is this ain't, this is not Fred Van Fleet the $100 million player. No, not at all right. And Vleet trying to make it, worrying about what that next contract is going to be. Like, talk to me a little more about that pressure that you was feeling and playing and having those first two series that you had and then get another opportunity. Yeah, well, just back then,

I knew what I could do. You know what I mean? We always know what we can do as players and our confidence and, you know, you're thinking about who you can be, but you still have to show that. And at that point in time, I hadn't really shown that I could be a starting point guard.

I hadn't shown all of these different moments. So I was just frustrated that this is the performance that I was putting out, you know, nobody's harder on myself than I am. Toronto is one of them cities where if you play a bad, you're going to know about it. You know what I mean? We definitely have those type of fans where they will cherish you

and worship you forever, but they're going to let you know when you're not playing well. And so I was caught up in that for the first time in my professional career, like reading comments, and I had to go through all of that type of stuff. So all of that was just a learning experience for me, but I was lucky enough to come out on the other side of it. Absolutely.

No, that's incredible. And speaking of those playoffs, NBA finals, you're going to win the next series, NBA finals roll around. We're coming into that series without Kevin Durant. And we then go on to play the first four games without him. You guys take a 3-1 lead. Then Kevin comes back for game five.

When Kevin comes back for game five, what's going through your head? I just remember being in the locker room. I remember being in the locker room before game five and it was like a little buzz, you know what I mean? Like was he coming back? It was it was whispers that he was going to play. You know what I'm saying? I felt like he was going to play.

Like, if he was close enough to play, we knew he was going to try it out. And I just remember like the conversation being like, all right, like he coming back. We're going to go at him. Like, you know what I mean? We're going to see what he got. And he came out and hit them first four shots. And I remember like, ooh. I was just remember being like, damn.

Like, oh, my God, this dude is special. And I had a move on him one time, and I seen him. He was a little gimpy. And then the next time, I think Serge went by him is when he went down. And then, man, it was just sad as a basketball fan. But we was like, all right, bro, we can't get no better gift than this. We got to, if we don't win this, we're going to have to live with this for the rest of our life. And I think that kind of gave us a little extra motivation to get it done.

Absolutely. And that happens in game five. Game six, Clay is catching fire. And it's funny because Clay came to me right before that game, and he's like, Dre, I'm going to have one of them game six. It's just make sure you get me the ball, Dre. I'm having one of them game six is. I feel it.

Game Six Clay, Dre. Like, he's totally bought into this game six Clay thing. Like, that everybody's, he's totally bought into it like Game Six Clay. I'm telling you, Dre, like, just give me the ball. And then he's catching fire. I don't know. A lot of people say Clay don't get hurt right there. y'all don't go on to win that that NBA championship.

I don't know how true that is. How do you feel about that? I mean, I know what I think, but I do want to hear you thought so. I mean, I don't agree with that. But at the same time, I could see that argument. You know what I'm saying? I could see that argument. He, like, him in those game sixes,

he got a super catalog of, like, those crazy games where it's hard to beat them. I felt like we were a much better team than y'all without Kevin because, you know, we had the depth and there were just certain matchups that we could pick on. And like some of the guys that y'all was playing in those moments wasn't like what we was used to seeing from the Warriors dynasty. Like y'all was bringing some of those guys up to speed,

whether it was like Alfonso McKinney Quinkgoogie. Like those were new guys to which I was doing. So we had specific things that we was hunting for in some of those situations. But yeah, who knows? Nobody will ever know. Okay, y'all can argue that. Y'all can argue that for this to your life. You know, you know, Gemma came over to our staff.

I always talk junk to him about it. Like, man, if we ain't get hurt. But the reality is this, if we win that game six, which what I do believe is if Clay doesn't get hurt, we do win that game six. Right. I don't think there's no questions asked we win the game six. But you go to game seven and it's just a coin flip.

Like, you just kind of know that from the history. game sevens, you get to game seven it's a coin flip. So the reality is I don't necessarily think oh man, we won game six, we were for sure winning the championship. Because game seven, I don't care what happened the rest of the series. Game seven, you flipped a coin

and whatever happens. Game seven, anything could happen. I just felt like at the time we was winning most of the quarters. Game five, I felt like we should have won and we was up. Kwa-star going crazy and then y'all made a comeback late. So, you know, we're going to feel this way. Y'all going to feel that way. It was what it is.

No doubt. No, and you spoke about my intro to the show. I purposely wanted to talk about your college resume because I do think it get overlooked. I think I always talk about the basketball minds and how a lot of them don't really know what the hell they're talking about. And you're another example of that. I'm an example of that. So I purposely did that and purposely did not mention first time all-star. Number one, I want to say congratulations on that. Well, well, fucking deserve. And number two, and I know you got to go, so I'm going to get you out of here on this one. But with the season that you've put together and becoming an all-star and carrying your team the way you've carried your team, there has been a lot of speculation coming up now whether Pascal will be traded at the deadline. And obviously we're recording this before the trade deadline happens. but how are you maintaining your focus with like Pascal is important to what y'all do

how are you maintaining your focus to continue doing what you're doing regardless of that talk that's going on around Pascal and what could happen at the deadline or not? Yeah, I mean, well, we all been through it, right? So I think for me, as I'm coming in, I'm in my sixth season now, I think the best feeling to have

is to be playing good around the trade deadline, be playing well, everybody's feeling well, feeling good, feeling excited about things. And then the pressure to make some of those drastic moves is not there. I think you got to look at the market and see what's out there. I don't know if any of those moves make sense for us right now in terms of something major. I think we like our core. We like our situation where we have and we're playing good basketball. So I think you just got to try to control what you can control. Me personally, listen, bro, you know, I'm from a place

just like where you're from and you got some of the similar backgrounds. All of this is, it is a blessing. And, you know, once you get into all of that extra stuff, you know, you kind of, you set your stuff up for disaster. So I just focus on leading this team, trying to win as much as we can and whatever is going to happen is going to happen. No doubt. No, man. Like I said, I know you got to get out of here. I appreciate you coming on the show. I must say, this guy was second in MVP voting when they beat us. So if you want to look anywhere past Kawhi and them beating us, you have to look no further than Fred Van Ville. I don't appreciate that. But I don't know. I love it.

I'm a big fan of yours, bro, and your journey. I love the whole bet on yourself mentality and how you own that. Like, you didn't just sit behind the scenes and say, I'm betting on myself from the very beginning. It's I'm betting on myself, and you've embodied that. Nothing but love and respect, bro, and I appreciate you coming on. Likewise, bro. Thank you.

Appreciate it. Absolutely. Yes, sir. So for all of you that say you love the game of basketball, you love the basketball, conversations that we have on the show. Obviously, we're only here once a week. I wish we could do more, but the NBA is a little too bit taxing and it requires just a little amount of time that, you know, kind of got to stick to that in four games

in a week. But if you are looking for more basketball conversations, then you must check out the Jenkins and Jones podcast. Also on the volume podcast networks, ironically enough, it's like a hilarious mix of basketball and comedy and like some of the most random internet topics you can imagine. So definitely check that out.

From all your favorite NBA Twitter personalities, Legerethro Jenkins, Dragon Fly Jones. So make sure y'all download the Jenkins and Jones podcast wherever you get your podcast only on the volume podcast network. Man, that was an incredible interview. As you see, Fred had had a different take on the 2019 finals than I had, but that was to be expected. And to be quite frankly,

as much as I feel like we would have one if our guys didn't get hurt, the reality is that's just how it works. Hell, it's just as important, if not more important than anything else when trying to win an NBA championship. And sometimes you have the good luck. Sometimes you don't. And, you know, in that situation, we didn't. But it happens. They were a great team. They have been through a lot to get to that point. And the cars fell how they should have. They won, and that was that. And, you know, got to get them a lot of credit, you know, but I'm still a little upset about that. I can't even lie. No, but, you know, obviously you can see the interview was a little shorter than normal. Fred didn't have a ton of time, but we had an opportunity to catch out with him

for 20 minutes. I wouldn't pass up on that opportunity. Number one, you don't know when it comes back around. And I always think that it's important for the fans. of this show to hear from the people that they want to hear from, the people that are doing great things, champions for Evan if he's a champion, he's an all-star, and so it would have been remiss to pass up on the opportunity to even have it for 20 minutes. And I thought it was an incredible 20 minutes. I truly enjoyed it, and I hope you enjoyed it.

And because the interview wasn't that long, this week, we will add a few mail-back questions to the show. So my producer, Jackson, will ask me a few questions. I'll give you guys a few answers of what I think, and then that'll be a wrap for episode 13. All right, let's start it off in honor of All-Star Weekend. You have the dunk contest and the three-point contest. You have a teammate in the dunk contest.

So let's get your predictions on who is going to win the dunk contest between Juan T, Jalen Green, Cole Anthony, and Obie Toppin. All right, so check this out. The sexiest pick, the guy who everyone's going to, expect to win is obviously Jalen Green. Kid has crazy bounce. You see him flying all over the place in the game. Probably should be the expected win.

The reality is, is that guy never wins. The guy who everyone expects to win, because he has to do stuff so crazy to beat the expectation that everyone has already set for him. The only guy we've really seen be successful at that is Zach Levine, who we've also had. as a guest on the Draymond Green show. But that guy never really wins.

So as much as I think Jalen Green is capable of winning and probably should win, I don't think he's going to win for that reason. Obie Topping is too tall. You know, you just don't really see tall guys win the dunk contest. Now, we saw Dwight Howard. As much as Dwight Howard could fly, it was also the Superman Cape,

and it was also like, you know, a little different situation for Dwight to win. But guys that tall don't really win because they're so tall that you're dunk. Like, if Obie Topping goes out there and do the same dunk that Cole Anthony does, Cole Anthony's is going to look better because he's smaller. And so it just looks better. And so for Obie Topping, he's fighting against his dunks may not look as crazy bounces he has because he's probably just as bouncy, if not more bouncy than anybody in the dunk contest.

As crazy as his bounce is, his dunks aren't going to look as cool as there just because he's taller. So he's fighting against that. And so for that reason, I don't think Obie Topping wins, although, like I said, his bounce is insane. So now moving. Cole Anthony, who we all know is bouncy,

You've even seen more of that like through social media over the years than you haven't necessarily in games but you know how creative he is in Duncan and so the reality is I think he's the dark horse well he's not the dark horse but I have Cole Anthony in the final versus Juan Tuscano Anderson

and Juan is the dark horse from 95th Avenue in Oakland Golden State Warrior I think this is his second year in the NBA second or third year in the NBA. Having an opportunity to go out there on the biggest stage, number one, regardless if he do great and win it, or he bomb it, he already won.

Guys undrafted, played in overseas, played in Mexico, played in the G-League, paid for a trial, worked his way until they go and stay where he's. He on that stage, he already won. But I do think the final two will come down to Juan Tuscano, Anderson and Cole Anthony. And then I think Cole Anthony is going to try to get way too freaking on his last dunk. He's going to miss.

Juan's going to give us a good dunk. He's going to take it home, and he's going to bring the dunk contest back to Golden State. First dunk contest champion in Golden State since the great Jason Richardson from Saginaw, Michigan, from Michigan State University. So that's who I got winning in the dunk contest. The three-point contest. It's Patty Mills, Luke Kinnar, Zach Levine, Trey Young, Desmond Bain, C.J. McCullough, and Carl Anthony Towns. Two guests of the Dremont Green Show, by the way.

Fred Van Vlead and Zach Levine. Absolutely. Two guests of the Dremont Green Show. Two all-stars, as we know. Carl Anthony Towns is another all-star, not a guest of the Dremont Green Show, but another all-star. This field is interesting because obviously all these guys can shoot. I'm actually tell y'all who I think is going to win, and why?

Who I think is going to win this three-point contest is Carl Anthony Towns. Why I think Carl Anthony Towns is going to win a three-point contest? Because he has the least amount of movement in his shot than anyone else on this list. I mean, he literally, he doesn't jump on his shot. So him picking that ball up and just launch him, it's a normal shot for him. He don't jump. So it's target practice for him. And so I could see Carl Anthony Towns winning the three-point,

because that's who I have win in the three-point contest, just because it's such little motion and it's shot. And so obviously all great shooters. And as you can see, I'm trying to pick this winner on, like, some technicality type stuff because, I mean, this is a tough kind. Like, all these guys shoot the lights out of the ball. So I got Kat. I think Kat wins it because he does not.

move much when he shoots the three ball. It'll just be target practice. Yeah, I got cat as well, but I think I'm going to go with Jalen Green for dunk going Jalen Green. I hear you. I hear you. See, I told y'all. Everybody going to think Jalen Green, and that guy doesn't usually win it because he got to get so freaky to get the 50. And then they miss. It's a good point. All right. Next one, who is a player or a couple of players in the NBA outside of John Moramp? I'm not going to let you pick John Moran because we've talked a lot about John Moran already on the show. But who's a guy outside of John Moran that you think has made a leap this season? Guys who I think made a leap this season, I think I'm going to pick two guys.

And for very different reasons. The first one has been a guest on the Draymond Green Show, which is Darius Garland. I think the leap that he's made from last year to this year, and due to his leap, his personal leap, the leap that their team has made from last year to this year, he's been incredible. And it's been beautiful to watch. And, like, I can go around the list.

But I'm going to stick to what I said. I'm going to pick two guys. And although there's a long list, I mean, you got Miles Bridges. You can go all of those guys. I'm going to go DeMar de Rosen. A guy who's already been an all-star several times, a guy who's been a household name for years in this league, was written off for the last two, three years

since he was traded from Toronto to San Antonio. Everybody picked apart his game on how the mid-range is dead and he don't shoot threes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, look at the amount of suitors he had in free agency this year. Yeah, if everybody knew he would play like this, I mean, everybody would have been not beating down his door. He's playing at MVP level. He should be top three in MVP bowed right now for sure.

I think his last six games, he's averaging almost 40. And so I have to go to Martin Rosen because of his resurgence, regardless of what the naysayers has said, he's stuck with his situation. He's gone through things in his personal life that no one knew about until it came out that his father had passed away, you know, and recently just saying, like, man, I was flying home after games and spent time with my dad in the hospital and then flying meeting the team

and playing the gayed day of, like all of those things. You never know where the guy is going through, and yet he's right back in a better spot than he was when they actually thought he was on his way. And so I have an appreciation for the way guys bounce back. Like, you can get to the top, but when you get to the top, it's hard to stay there. If you lead the top, it's almost impossible to get back. And yet that's what DeMarre has done.

And so for that reason, I got to give it to DeMar de Rosen. Love that. Demar has been unbelievable this year. Let's do one more. Who's a player in the league that you think most fans don't appreciate how good they are? Player in the lead that I think most fans don't appreciate how good they are. Other than me? Other than you, other than you.

Let's see. Player in the league that fans do not appreciate how good they actually are. That's a good one. That's a really good one. And I'm going to have to go with... I stumped you. That's a good one.

I'm going to have to go with Clay Thompson. And the reason I go with Clay Thompson is obviously he's just back from injury. So I'm dating back past these 15 games he's played. I'm just talking total body of work. Clay Thompson not being on the top 75 team is ridiculous. Like, obviously that wasn't the fans that voted on that. But it's utter ridiculous. It's disgusting to basketball.

It's disgusting to winning. It's disgusting to a player being the absolute or one of the absolute best at their craft and at performing a certain thing within that craft. When I say that, I'm talking one of the best shooters we've ever seen, a guy who would go take the opposing best guard on the team out of the game, guy who's won three championships, a five-time All-Star, and not on the top 75 list, the fans has that same appreciation.

Now, their appreciation has changed for Clay a bit due to the injury. And so it's also more from a sympathetic standpoint than how great Clay Thompson is. And that pisses me off. And so if there's one guy that I think the fans don't understand truly how good he is, it's Clay Thompson.

No, but Jackson, I appreciate the questions, my brother. Those were definitely some fun questions that asked, and you definitely had me stump for a little bit there. And stumped from the standpoint of I could have went so many different directions with that. But in saying that it was very hard to come up with one guy, and kind of roll with that guy, which is why I roll with my guy, Clay Thompson. No, but until next week, don't forget to subscribe to the show. to the volume YouTube page.

And next week, we have another amazing guest, one of the best guards in the NBA. Obviously, we've been around this whole All-Star thing. That'll be post-Aastar, but he is an all-star. Not this year due to the injury, but we'll have one of the best guards in NBA, one of the most clutched players, not in just the NBA, but in NBA history.

And so tweet the volume, and you guess who it is, and we may have a signed jersey or Draymond Green Shoe or something. for the first person to get it right. So that's it for this week. See y'all next week from the Draymond Green Show. That's a wrap piece. We just can't seem to catch a break, huh?

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