The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show - Tom Izzo

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

Tom Izzo joins ‘The Draymond Green Show’ to discuss his journey to Michigan State head coach, Draymond being one of the most important players in MSU program history, what it’s like being part of the elite group of NCAA basketball coaches, retirement rumors, how the NCAA NIL rules have changed college basketball, and much more. #Volume #Herd Produced by: Jackson SafonSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. The Draymond Green Show is presented by Fanduil Sportsbook. There's no better place to bet the action than on Fandual Sportsbook during the football season. It's easy to use. It's safe and secure. You get payouts in as fast as two hours. There's so many bet types. My favorite same game parlay bets.

There's live betting, player props, futures. If you're new, just download the Fandul Sportsbook app. To get started now, sign up. Please use the promo code Colin C-O-L-I-N. Fandul-S-Buil sportsbook makes it easy. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Dremont Green Show. As you can see, I'm in the same place that I was in last week.

This is part two of our Michigan State series. What brought me back here to Michigan State was obviously the Hall of Fame, but whether the Hall of Fame happened or not, I was coming back anyway. last year, Travis Walton and Austin Thornton started an incredible thing here at Michigan State. And it's our Michigan State Ground Week. And what that is, is, you know, we come in for a few days. We bring all the pros back.

We bring everybody back. It's a basketball reunion for not only the pros, but guys who played in this program. For men and women that worked in this program, it's an opportunity for all of us to come back. And so I would be here anyway. Nonetheless, the Hall of Fame did happen. And it's something that I'm so thankful for.

It's such an incredible honor. But I'm excited as hell about this next interview because without this guy, there is no Hall of Fame. Without this guy, there is no podcast that you care about because I would never have the platform that I have and been afforded with if it wasn't for this man's. sitting to my right. Hall of Famer. And if you, he was a Hall of Famer in my book before he became a Hall of Famer.

Nonetheless, he is national champion, guy who's led so many kids, young guys, young men like myself, to live out their dream. And it's one thing that would stick with me forever. And he would always say to me, I'm living my dream. my only thing that I want for you, I've been successful enough, I've been lucky enough to live my dream. I just want to see you live your dream.

And that's such a rare thing because people get ahead and they don't really look out for those behind them. They don't really care to see you grow. They always want to see you grow, but never bigger than them. And it's such the opposite with this guy to my right.

my coach, but more than the coach, he's a father figure to me. He's a friend to me. And, you know, I think that's one thing that stuck with me. As soon as I finished playing, he said, hey, man, I'm no longer your coach. I can not really, really be your friend. And he stood by that. At times that I would go through my shit with my team, I'll get in trouble. First person that Bob called, first person that Steve called is this man to my right. I'm honored, and it's a pleasure. Coachizzo, thank you for coming on the show. Well, Draymont, that's about as well said as you could say it, but it's kind of interesting.

I wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame without you. You know, it was you guys, it was Matine. Players, coaches get credit, coaches get blame, but players play the game. You know, and I've said it a million times. I'm so happy that you remember a couple of those things because it is important to me that you get to live your dream because you're going to find out with your own kids,

you found out with your own team, you found out with the players you followed here and helped us recruit, that sometimes it's almost more fun to watch other people following your footsteps and do get to live their dream. And I've said it, you quoted it, I believe it, I think you believe it. Now that you have kids and all the things,

you're going to even see it even more. No doubt. So take Let's go back a little bit Take me on this journey You come to Michigan State As a graduate assistant You work

What two or three years as a graduate assistant You leave for Tulsa That was short-lived Take me on that journey Well I was I First of all I came here As a grad assistant at 26 But you're supposed to do that at 22

But I was up in a UP A little different up there And I couldn't get out of there so I kept begging Judd and I said, I'll come as a GA. He said, you're overqualified. I said, I just want a chance. And so I was a three-year GA. As you know, they're two-year GA.

So it took me a little longer. That's why I believe in process. But I did, and I was about to get out of it. I was going to take a job at Michigan Tech University, Division II school up in the UP. I was out of money. I didn't make any money as a GA. And I got a chance to get a job at the University.

I went there for six weeks. And Mike Dean left here, the number one guy, and Judd hired me back. And that's where my journey really started, I guess. You know, I was 30 years old. I had the break of a lifetime. And at another break when Jed retired. And the rest is history.

History it is. History it is. For you, when you took over the program, Judd had had success. Judd had Magic. Obviously, you were a part of that. And then the success kind of tell, it went down a little bit.

Then Smitty came in. And Smitty brought the program back to relevance. Yes. But lost in Elite 8. And then you take over the program where it's not in the best space. What was it for you that helped you turn that question?

and ultimately build what we know Michigan State is today. Well, you know, it's funny because when I came back from Tulsa, I went down to Detroit. They didn't recruit the state very much. And here I'm from the UP, you know, and not a very diverse area. And yet basketball, as we know, is a higher percentage of African-American players

and kids from the inner city. So I went down at a look at a kid named Eric Wilson, who ended up with seven-footer, went to Minnesota, soda. And I saw this skinny little guy over there and it was Steve Smith. I came back. I told Judd, I said, hey, it's a guy down there, man. He's six, four, five. He's skinny, but he's got great skills. And Judd went down there. He fell in love with Steve. And we recruited Steve. And that was in 1986, right after we lost Scott, Skiles, Sam, Vincent, Kevin Willis. Really good players, all pros, but we didn't have great teams. And back when, you know, listening to you and Mateen talk, um,

Leadership is a big key, you know, and you don't have leadership. You don't have anything. You know, likership doesn't make it. It's leadership that makes it. It's not what everybody likes you. And that's why it's been so much fun to watch your career. Battle with a few teammates, battle with a few coaches. Me and you had some incredible halftimes, incredible timeouts.

And yet, man, I always knew the same thing you guys talked about when he was important to you. And so when I took the job over, got Steve Smith when I was an assistant. It just made me realize how important the state is. And then the Fab Five came a little while after that at Michigan. And I just said, when I get this job, I'm going to win with in-state players. You got to put a fence around your area. You know, and our area was that. I could get kids up as freshmen and sophomores.

I could get them the football games, you know. I could get to see them more often. So I thought being within this three, four hour radius was very important. And believe it or not, 90% of my career, that's what I've done. And then, you know, when I went to Flint to look at Morris Peterson, he wasn't ranked in the top 200. Antonio Smith, he had brothers that played football. He wasn't really ranked. But I thought I had to get my feet in.

And those guys, especially Antonio, brought toughness. Plus, I knew his best friend was Mateen. So I was recruiting for the future. not the present. And then when we landed him, you know, it really started to take off. And then Flint and then Saginaw,

you know, as you're a guy, Jay Rich and yourself, and we had other guys. And we missed in on a few guys, but it was special. And, and you know what?

I mean, think about Mo's mother. She was insane. Your mom, she was insane, you know, but they were like all in. I got a saying around here,

there's no such thing as being half pregnant. Yeah. Okay. Well, I love guys that are all in. And you guys were, your families were. It didn't mean that we didn't have problems. And that's what I've, you know, I listen to you guys talk about me, but I listen to you guys too. And I don't think anybody realizes that I wouldn't be half as good. I mean, I fought with Mateen morning, noon, and night. So it was easier dealing with you because I fought with him morning, noon, and night. And yet I did promise him we'd win a championship. And we stood on that floor. And we said we did it. And he's right. You know, nobody believed it. And you came along, you know, you think about leaders. You had Magic Johnson in the late 70s.

Then you had Steve Smith in the late 80s. Okay. And then you had the, you know, really the cleaves in the late 90s. And then you in the late, you know, Travis Walton and you, we always had a running mate guys did. It was you and Trav in the 2009, 10, last. you know and then then zell did a pretty good job so you know you you look at it but it's scary because of all those years i can only name four or five guys that's how special you guys are and how few there are of you that are good enough to be respected but strong enough to use your platform

no doubt no doubt i appreciate that um for you By the way, coach keeps saying a UP for you non-Michiganers, that's the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Yeah. For you, a Yuper, to become who you've become and be, like, there's Coach K, there's Roy Williams, there's Dean Smith, there's legends, and there's you with those legends. How does that feel?

Like, I haven't, I haven't researched. the pinnacle of what I do. So few people get to really reach the pinnacle, the top, the very top of what they do. And you've done that, Mr. March, all the magic that you've created in March. How does that feel? Like, to just be one of them guys? Well, it feels humbling, and it feels, I appreciate that it wouldn't have been done without, you guys, you know, I am not stupid. I mean, you last in this because you're not dumb. And better players make you a better coach. So I know Steve Kerr thinks that because we've had many talks about you.

And better players doesn't always mean the greatest player. It means the greatest winner. You know, when they came calling about you, oh, he's too small. Oh, he's too this. Oh, he doesn't shoot it well enough. Oh, you know what I hate to tell you this. I said, you're right. You're right.

You're right. You're right. You're right. Not a great defender with quickness. You're right. Well, then what does he do? Why should I draft him? He wins. I said as a freshman, he didn't play a ton. And by the end, he was leading us to a final four because in winning time, he played. And in winning time, he played. I'll never forget one of my favorite games with you. We went to Gonzaga. And Judd Heathcote lived there. And he said, why are you playing in the kennel? Why don't you play downtown? Nobody wins in the kennel. And you remember, it was crazy. Absolutely.

And I think you had 36. You hit about five threes. You did so many things. And we won by a couple. And you have always done what it takes to win. We make tapes of this guy on setting screens, on getting rebounds, on playing offside defense. Does all the little things, you know, not Steph Curry, shooting 100 threes, not Clay Thompson,

not Kevin Durant, not LeBron James, doing what they do. It's called the dirty work. But dirty work, if you're a coach, are the guys that win for you. And that's why so many great players haven't won four NBA championships, you know. And if a ref would have made a good call, you would have won a national championship. That is a fact. I got the fucking tape, and I don't say that much on TV. He's so sorry, but whatever.

But I do. And, you know, he hits you in the arm with six seconds left. We're down one. We lose the game. And we would have beat Duke that year. For sure. In the championship game. And you would have had your national championship there.

You would have had your one at the Warriors. You would have had the one in the Olympics. But yours is going to be complete when you get in the Hall of Fame, not Michigan States, but the national one. That's around the corner after a few more championships. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I appreciate it.

And obviously, that's the goal that I am chasing. Number one, you look, you look as great as I've seen you look in 10 years. Like, you just look like you're not stressed anymore. You look like you're rejuvenated. You look happy, which makes me happy. Because I worry about you sometimes. I know how much shit you take on. And there was a period four or five.

years ago, where they also tried to leave you for dead. And they tried to write you off and lump you into something that had absolutely nothing to do with you. And one of the things that I love and respect about you is no matter what, whether it's your shit, whether it's my shit, whether it's someone else's shit that they just try to throw on you because you are the big name, because your time is all. you stand 10 toes down and you stood 10 toes down and you're still here and you made it through that. But what did going through that do for you coming out on the other side?

I know it was hell going through it for you, but coming out on the other side of it, what did going through what you went through do for you and got you in the place that you're in today? Well, it's something I very seldom talk about, but with you, I'm talking about it. It was one of the hardest things I ever went through and it was hard for, some of the people that went through some of the things they had to go through. But never been in that position before. And I did what you guys. I hear you guys time.

I believed in myself. I knew what I had. I knew there were very few. Thank God for some of you that some of my best friends, some my best friends in the media. I mean, they throw me to the wolves. And I resented that. It's why I have a greater appreciation for what you guys. do every day. But I hung in there and I believed in what I thought was right and I did the best I

could and it wasn't easy. There was no blueprint for it. But I did hang in there and I went through even a tough time. You know, we won three Big Ten championships, it went to a final four, but even when you had your jersey retired, you remember your whole team came back, your coaches, your owner? And we embarrassed ourselves against Duke and you came into my office at about 1130 that night after my meeting and sat down and said, you know, you told me some things you didn't think I was doing right. And, you know, people will never appreciate that because I'm the old man, you're the young kid, and we're supposed to be able to tell you what you do wrong. But I think I don't, I'm not your coach no more. Definitely. I am your friend. You treat me like a friend. I hope I treat you like a

friend if I think you're doing something that's going to hurt you I think I got the courage to tell you that night in one of my toughest losses at home in the history of my program I mean you went at me a little bit and one of the things you know we're going to get younger we got to do this we got to do that and as you noticed I listened and um and I feel comfortable about that and I I listened and I you know, learn to listen. Listen to learn is what we use around here. And I think I did listen to learn. And I appreciate it. And that's why I know that the use, the cleaveses, the Smith, there's certain guys, not a million of them. A lot of good guys that I love. Not a million guys will tell me what I don't want to hear. I don't think there's a million guys anymore that tell players what they don't want to hear. And, but when you do it, that's real love. That is real love.

Absolutely. When I speak of rejuvenation, I think it's showing on your face. But where it's definitely showing is in the recruiting classes that you started to pull in again. And I think, to me, I think that's because you're just all, you're back all in. Like you've teetered with retirement for a few years. Now I don't hear you talk about it at all anymore. Do you think that's been the key into you getting back on the recruiting trail

and bringing in the classes now that we're bringing in, like we're starting to bring in top 10 classes again? Do you contribute some of that to your rejuvenation and just feeling like, no, I'm in this thing. Like, I don't even ask you anymore, coach, how much longer are you going to do it? Because I feel like at this point now, you're just going to do it until you die.

Don't you die on us? I need you. So, like, how has that really, did that play a part? I think it was the 18 season when we had Jaron and Miles, and we really had a good team. I mean, we were 31 and 4 or 5. I mean, we had a good team, and we're playing the first round in Detroit, but it was also the time of my darkest moments when I was going through those things that our whole university and everybody was going through.

And that game ended. we got beat by Syracuse by one and the game ended I thought that team was good enough to win a national championship and I kind of felt relieved I didn't have to go to another press conference I didn't have to answer things and I lived at that for a while then I thought what a wimp you know like what am I doing you know

and that started the process you know and then you know a lot of nights we had talks and you know Matina and I had talks and you just kind of realize. I love what you guys were talking about when I heard you is that only certain kind of people are built for certain kind of things. Absolutely. And I do think I'm one of those guys that want to take on problems and help out and make others better. You know, he said great players make other players better.

I don't think great players do. I think those are the elite players. Great players play great, but elite players make other guys that aren't that good. better. That's what I watch you do, you know, everybody, you know, how many times you score over 10 points? But the consistency and the

way you, you know, I always joke with people and I told step this at your wedding that you know, the linemen, the great running backs, they always buy the linemen a Rolex or something when they have a thousand yard season,

you know, those guys better buy you something. But a number of screens and the number of passes you set that lead to their baskets, they better buy, they better buy you a house because they make more money than those running backs. They do. A lot more money than the running backs. So now that I did say that, how much longer do you want to coach? You know, I know one thing I'm not going to do.

I've watched some guys stay a year or two too long, you know. I'm not into anything, but the day that I feel like I don't want to take red, guys, I don't want to go out recruiting. I don't want to have meetings in my office, like some of the ones we had. I'm gone. I mean, and if I'm not, I know you'll tell me, I know Mo will tell me, no, Steve, you know, I got some guys that'll tell me, it's time, you know. But you are right. I am rejuvenated.

You know, right now, the campus, it's electric right now, you know. Mel has done an excellent job. We're putting 70 million into football. We just put a bunch into hockey. We got cranes in the sky again. We got students walking, you know, two years of COVID. Two and a half years, we had nobody walking around. I got an office with windows in it so I can watch people walk and there's nobody walking.

So I'm like energized by that, you know, I love the students. I love the place. And we have 650,000 living alums. And yet we have guys like you that bring pride, you know, heard Mo talk about Matt, you know, Matt calls. He says, I want to get all the guys from the championship team. We're going to go watch Draymont. You know, I came out, my wife and I, for the first two games and had fun out there. And then we went to Boston. And, you know, the Boston Garden, my first time there, all the things you hear about it. And I watched my guy win a championship on their floor.

Absolutely. That was special. And then he spent time with us after the next morning, you know. and we were with all of our guys. It was all your Michigan State guys, all my Michigan State guys. And that like revives you. I mean, that energizes you. You can keep winning championships. Time for us to win another one.

Spent a little bit of that next contract money when you get it. Fly out to that game that night. And that would be utopia for me. Absolutely. And before we get out of here, because we have a weekend to get back to. There's been a big change in college sports. Athletes are not being paying for their likeness.

I, being someone who was really pushing for that, I still don't think it's what it should be. Like, okay, we're allowing people to make money off their likeness now. I think it's still time to pay the athletes. You're providing a service. You're bringing millions of dollars into these places. and then the NCAA, they just grab it. And I want to know how have you had to adjust as a coach?

Like, these guys are making real money now. Like, I was talking to Travis yesterday. I walked in and I was just standing there looking at AJ. I said, Trave, this dude got money now. Like, I saw AJ took a vacation to Jamaica. That's incredible. Like, how have you had to change some of the way, that you coach now because when you add it to money, that's a different thing.

When you give someone money, it changes things. How have you seen things changed in the profession? Well, first of all, let me say this. I do agree with you. I wish they would have come up with some kind of stipend, some kind of better thing. I'm all in favor of the name, image, and likeness. So if you're worth something that you can do, the pay a player without contracts without you know the ability that i mean you can't be a free agent every

year these guys are free agents every semester and so that creates some problems so what i call it is this and someday me and you are going to sit down off the air and then we'll go back on the air but and just talk about it you know what are the unintended consequences of these things things. This year, there were over 450 college basketball players that put their name in the portal and don't have a place to go. Four hundred of those are probably African American kids now who are not going to get an education. So there are more things to this whole thing. Can we do a better job taking care of the players? 100%. Can we figure out ways that, like my thing, a coach leaves, okay, this and that. But to be a free agent every year, if there were

paying them, then there should be contracts. And contracts mean you don't get to leave every year. Absolutely. So there's got to be some work done on this, Dre. And maybe guys like you have a platform, but I think if you saw both sides, I just worry about are we really helping educate these kids? Four years, we've had guys go to four different schools now. They're not graduating.

You can't do that. I mean, you know when you transfer from one school or the other, a lot of credits don't transfer. Curriculum changes. changes and and and and then you know i'm going to hit you with this one because i really believe it you have the most unique team in basketball i think you're a big reason i remember the kevin durant thing i remember you almost recruiting them you know i know what you did but step clay draymont um iggy um even looney now steve bob bob You're talking seven, eight to 10, 12 years.

Where does that happen? It doesn't. Well, think about college and this reunion you're at this weekend. Where would most of those kids go? I brought back Corey Lucius, who left after two years. You helped me during his troubled times, and he didn't listen to us, and he'd be the first to tell you. But he's back, because I brought him back. How many coaches are going to be there long enough?

So where are these guys going to go when they leave and have three different schools? There's unintended consequences. And I think me and you would be great to sit down and talk, and you'd be great to talk to the NCAA. There's so many things we've got to do a better job with. But let's make sure that we understand that these kids are losing out too. Absolutely. You know, you after your freshman year now, you might have said goodbye.

For sure. And you turned out okay. Absolutely. And you did a lot for this university, and this university does some things for you. But you did a lot for this place. And you got to admit, giving makes you feel good. 100%. That's why I do.

So I just worry about where it's headed. And that's something that maybe that would be you and I. That would be a good thing for you and I. Because I've got enough power in the, not that we have any power as coaches. You have as a player. maybe we can get the two sides together and really do what you and Moe talked about helping other kids get to where they want to go the right way.

100%. I love and appreciate that answer because I think when speaking of a transfer reporter, I worry about that. And I don't worry about it because I do think, I do think, you know, there are situations where kids should be able to transfer. You have the hardship thing that you just have.

If a coach leads, I think kids should be able to transfer. I'm for that too. But the portal thing is a little tricky because like you said, when you can throw your name in there every year, I talked about in my press conference yesterday before the Hall of Fame ceremony.

We won a game at Ohio State my freshman year. It's a big deal. good. We were going on a row. We were destroying everybody that year. We won the most games in the road games in the Big Ten. We won the Big Ten by the largest margin in Big Ten history that year. I'm not sure if that still stands, but it was

at that time. And I got on a bus after that game. I didn't play. I'm pissed off at you about that because I just heard something last night that said, I'm tied for the most games playing. If you played me that game, I'd be ahead. But I didn't play that game.

And I called my mom, crying. And I said, Ma, I gotta get the fuck out of here. I didn't say that because my mom would slap me. I said, Ma, I gotta get out of here. And she told me, yeah, what's going on? It's like, I didn't play. Like, what you mean what's going on? We just had a game. I didn't play. She's like, oh, okay. So how you feel? Ma, I didn't play. Like, okay. I need to get out of here. She said, well, you made your bed. You got to lay in it. It clicked. Whoa. Yeah, but that doesn't happen anymore, Dre.

And that, but when I think about that, I think about how different my life would be. If I did leave right then, like, all the things that's happened for me in my life, how great you've been in my life, how great this university has been in my life, I still think this is the best decision I ever made in my life was to come here because it set me up for the rest of my life. I met my wife here. And I think about if I had transfer,

how that would have turned out for me, it wouldn't have turned out to say. So I do worry about that portal a little bit for sure. Yeah, and then the portal turns into, they just free age in it and look for the best deals. And you know what? When you're 18, 19, the best deals, I mean, you've got to get to.

get nurtured yet. You're a grown man now. You, you've made decisions. You can make decisions. At 18, I made bad decisions. I mean, we all made bad decisions. Absolutely. And that's why you either got to have great parents or parents hand their kids off to the coach. If you've had three or four different coach, and I agree with you, by the way, 100%. The coach leaves. The players should be able to leave and be eligible immediately. But I think of how many guys were unhappiest friends? I think how many guys were unhappiest freshman. Hell, I was a division two player was unhappy. I was a freshman because you all scored a bunch of points. That's why you got recruited by schools. And almost nobody does that in college. Yeah, I'm going to average 22 points a game in college. Absolutely not. Nobody does that. So they're all

unhappy. And now you got more people pecking on them to leave and this and that. It's really hard on the kids. I think Mel told me, I think there's like 800 football players don't have a home. And that doesn't include the people, Dre, that put their name in the portal. They don't even have to talk to the coach anymore. And then they end up going to a school that's less than the one they thought they'd go to because nobody was really recruiting them, you know? Or they go to a school and then don't play hardly at all. And they were playing 35 minutes a game at the other.

You know, I just worry about it. I mean, I'm going to stick with this. I'm going to try to stay out of the portal. It's going to probably get me because I'm going to believe in the guys that. I recruit and I'm going to be homegrown and I'm going to stick with them and you know what? You weren't a start when you got to the warriors. Some people stuck with you and they're damn happy they did. And whenever you have one of your bad times and they call, it always ends up with, yeah, but boy, we wouldn't win without them.

I mean, it always ends up with that. So I'm giving it away to those guys that call me because you are special. And I don't say that. You have toughness. You have leadership. You're not afraid of your voice. And maybe the most important thing in anything you do in your life, winning is important to you.

When you're transferring around, when you're looking at just money, and especially your 18, winning is not the most important thing. You're making decisions because I get a little more NIL money there. I'm making a decision because somebody promised me something there. it's not the same man i worry about i said this i'm going to survive i worry about the guys and some people have said you know you really do i really do and i can say that honestly so i don't like everything about it i think we've got to make some adjustments but i think it's going to take people like you and me a player that maybe doesn't see it exactly like i do to talk about it instead

of these people at the NCAA and people that aren't involved in the basement stuff that are making the decision. That's what I struggle with government, whether it be administrators, come on down to the basement with me and then make the same decision. I don't think they'd make it. Absolutely. I agree 100%. Coach, I can sit here and ask you a million questions.

I can sit here and talk to you for hours as we do often. But the reality is we got a program to continue to get better. So we're going to get back out here with our recruits, with our family, enjoy this weekend. But I want to thank you, and not for sitting down and doing this. I want to thank you for everything that you've done in my life, for taking an 18-year-old kid from Saginaw that thought I had the answers and showing me how to become a man.

And then once I thought I was a man, still continuing to show me, hey man, just because you're 22 years old now and you're making a little money, you're still not a man and continuing to guide me in my life. Being a father figure to myself, so many other guys, being a close friend that I can call when everything is going wrong. And I feel like my life is erupting in everything. It's just chaos. Being the guy I can call for getting on a flight to come see me six hours away for four

hours and coming back, that stuff doesn't go on notice. I appreciate it. I turn around and I look at this. Like, none of this happens for me without you. And I'm so thankful to have you in my life. It's one of my biggest bragging points in the NBA. Your coach ain't fucking like my coach. Your coach will never be like my coach. I love telling guys that. But the reason I love saying is because I know I can say it I can make every argument, every valid point to show a guy that is true. And the reality is most guys don't argue because there are many guys like you. You're so different. I thank you.

I love you. I will do anything for you. I'll give my right arm for you. Well, let me close this part for me by not just saying ditto, but it's not a love fest. It's not like we've had more arguments than love fest. respect and appreciation and I know I wouldn't be here without some of you guys there's four or five of you and let's face it smitty started some of it from me then mo and then you and trav and and you know and the beat goes on and a lot of other great players but you know as coaches we look for

difference makers you're a difference maker you're a difference maker you're a difference maker in the you're a difference maker when when you argue with Charles and and and what you do there and I call him and I laugh and it always ends up the same whether I talk to Steve or Bob or Charles or somebody else. Everybody can have one opinion and at the end of the comment it is God you got to love that kid huh. God that guy's done so much for you right. I said so I'm in my 60s and you were in your 20s or you're in your 30s now but I still learn from me. you. I want to learn more from you. I do want to talk to you about how we can make college basketball better. I do want to talk to you about what we can do around here to make it better. We got some years left, both of us. So I love you. I love your family. I appreciate you. And even your mom, remember now, she said that freshman year, she was mad at me all the time. And I came in and told

you, you're going to get your mom off Twitter, man. She's killing me. And yet on senior night, night she gave me a plaque like keeping my office in my house that was the most endearing plaque and i love your mom you know i mean it just it's it's a family affair and i appreciate you brother and i uh i wouldn't still be here if it wasn't for you i mean that i i i'm always done a lot for me and but you kind of carry this torch and you carry it because how you are in the NBA everybody laughs that i want to coach guys that are tough and it's a football team on Hardwood, they used to call my teams. You're still doing it, man. You're in your 30s.

You're still doing it. And you're winning championships. Yes, sir. And you got some more to win. Absolutely. But I got another one to win. So let's do it together. No doubt.

I love you, coach. Appreciate you. That's a wrap. Michigan State. This is Raymond Green Show. Peace.