The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis - Pacers-Thunder NBA Finals Game 1 reaction w/ Shaun Livingston

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Draymond Green and Baron Davis are joined by Dray's former Golden State Warriors teammate Shaun Livingston to react to the THRILLING Game 1 of the NBA Finals between the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder. They break down everything from Tyrese Haliburton's heroics, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's big game in the loss, and Rick Carlisle showing why he's such a legendary coach. 7:00 - Reaction to Pacers STEALING Game 1 vs. Thunder 26:00 - Draymond’s biggest problem with Thunder’s game plan 34:00 - Analyzing Tyrese Haliburton’s game 38:30 - Can SGA’s midrange game compete with Indiana’s 3s? 49:00 - OKC drawing comparisons to ’14-’15 Warriors 1:00:00 - Give Rick Carlisle his flowers 1:10:30 - How important is a big market? 1:27:30 - Knicks firing Tom Thibodeau 1:42:00 - Draymond & Baron’s NBA Finals prediction (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #Herd Follow The Draymond Green Show on social media:  https://www.instagram.com/draymondshow https://x.com/DraymondShow https://www.facebook.com/people/Draymond-Green-Show https://www.tiktok.com/@draymondgreenshow New episodes of ‘The Grudge’ air every Wednesday at 10 PM ET — only on VICE TV. Find your channel here: https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/channel-finder Watch BIG 3 Basketball, Saturday, June 14th at 6:30PM ET – only on VICE TV. Find your channel here: https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/channel-finder See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green show with my dog, BD. With Aaron Davis. We live. What's good, bro. How are you doing? We live, bro.

It's a special one day. It's a special episode. Also, I got my brother here with me. It's crazy because I watch myself in the league every day. you know, I'm not watched myself, but like I just see the process that I'm going through on a daily basis. I lived that. And I think back to like what feels not that long ago. But every day I go to the facility now for practice for a game, I got to get in the hot tub.

And this, this, my brother that's, that's coming on the show yesterday, he used to be in the hot tub. And I used to be like, man, you're so damn old. Like you owe you in a hot tub, man. You owe every day you're in a hot tub. And he used to be like, it's right around the corner for you. It's going to happen to you too. But this dude means a lot to me. Three-time NBA champion, I got to share that experience with it,

an executive in the NBA. Number four pick in the 2004 NBA drive coming straight out of high. Wow. the mini god, the master the range, important part of our dynasty, none other than my brother. As Dodd, Sean Livingston, welcome to the-

young Ronnie. Fellas, fellas, appreciate you all have me on the platform today. Yes, sir. Yeah, man, I see that father time. Yeah, full circle. I tell you what. It's funny because I start

getting in the hot tub, like, on my own. You know what else? When I go in there, that lights off, it's also like the calm before the storm, too. You know, it's just like zing out. But I would go in and like see Rick and Danny, you know, so I started doing the body work and they would notice the difference. Like, yo, you ain't been in the hot tub. Like, now they're like, you got to go get in the hot tub.

Yeah. Yeah. All of them shots. All of them shots, y'all was shooting at me. I come in there with my green tea. You know, I'm coming in. You're trying to get right. That's all.

You know, that's all you know, that style. I'm just trying to last beat. They're teasing. They're teasing. You now look at it. It's crazy. The minutes pile up, baby, especially when you win it. Yes.

The minutes, they pile up. They're going to catch up faster than they would a normal do. I'm still a sprit-up, so they ain't caught up yet. I'm still, you know, I'm still a little sprouting. So, but. The process, you know, of, like, going through it, like, every day, learning the body, learning what you need in the off day, like, lifting more. Man, the process of being ready to take the court, though, is crazy.

Like, it's a, it requires so much more time than just, like, when you just had to work on your game, it's like a totally different type of discipline. And that's what you don't quite understand when you're watching guys go through it, you know? It's like the summers for me in my 30s was just straight weights and conditioning. But, you know, just to prepare my body. And then just, of course, the way I played the game, you know, obviously just getting to the spots off the dribble, it's a harder game. It wasn't a three-point shooter. It wasn't a spacer.

So just, I remember it was a game we were playing, and it might have been against the clippers. And one of the guys came up to me, and he was like, bro, this towards the end of my career, like the last year. And he's like, what do your workouts look like? Do you just get it to just shoot all 10 footers, bro? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, what else do you do? Like, you know, and I'm just like, damn, I had to think. about it like, damn.

That's the sauce, though. That's it. I get straight to it. To the point. That's it. That's it. Like, I want to hit on black. I know I'm hitting.

Yeah. So, but it's, it's definitely towards the latter part of your career. Like, yeah, man, you got to think about all the stretching, the yoga, the recovery, all that. So I'm glad you in that seat now. I'm glad to see. It's, uh, I'm, uh, I'm. I got a different appreciation for it for sure. Yes, sir.

Appreciation for sure. But, man, we just watched game one of the NBA finals. I know y'all watched it. I watched it. I mean, I think just initially getting into it. Hallie does it again, BD. What do you expect? He does it again?

What do you expect? Bro. I mean, cheese, Biddy, and I say, I say cheese, he ain't about to do it. He's not about to do it again, bro. Oh, my God. Man, it was crazy because they just keep fighting, man. And when Nemhart, I think he airballed the three, Pascal laid it up. It was like, uh-oh, they down one.

They just set themselves up. And, I mean, Halliburton, that's prime time. That's prime time. Halliburton, he knocking them down. He's Mr. Clutch. He's Mr. Clutch in the playoffs. But what's your thought on that, Sean? Do you watch that?

Yeah, man. I wanted to kick it to y'all because you've been in those precious situations. Like when you watch in Halliburton, do you feel like he needs to do more in that fourth quarter? Are you watching him and say, like, where is he at? And he just pop up. Like, you know, like, man, he just, and it's something about, too, hitting those shots in prior series that it's like, okay, I've been here before. Like, when it comes to me, I'm ready.

but I'm watching the game. I hear, you know, I'm listening to the broadcast. They're like, your best player has to be better. You know, they're ready to dig in and narrative on them. And then, boom. There you go. Right. Like, what do y'all see when you're watching, like, the last six minutes of that four-star player?

I think in an ideal world, you want to see your star player take over the game. Like, you want to see them. Yep. The reality is, Hallie not really that dude. Like, he's that dude as far as, like, the player that he is. But he's not, when I say he's not that dude, like, he's not going to go look to score every time. That's just not his mindset. He's looking to get everybody involved.

That's how they team playing. So I think when it comes to Hallie, everybody wants him to be something that he's not. And, like, I mean, I got the utmost love and respect for his game. but he not Shea. When I think of their team, I think the guy who that is for them is actually Siakum. Like Siakam is when in a high pressure moment

like meet at a game, eight minutes to go on the fourth quarter, how are he going to give you some games because he got the ball and he's making the plays and he just get it going. But Seacom is the guy that they go to to settle things down. You know, and that's the road that he plays for that team. So I think, yeah,

In an ideal world, you're always going to want to see the ball in your best player hands. And what I will say is, can highly go get the ball more and get them into more things and be more demonstrative during that window about getting them into things and making the plays? Yes, he could, but that's God, man, the ball move. But they don't rock like that. Yeah, they don't really rock like that. And, and Jay, me and Jay, we talked about this in the Milwaukee series. I said, Indiana not scared.

to nobody because everybody is green. Everybody got a green light. Nimhart got a green light. Needs got a green light. Miles Turner can shoot the ball. Obie Toppins can make plut. Like they all have a, they all got a

freedom that's different and they style of play. So for Halliburton, he's trying to unleash that freedom. So you forget about him. And I think that's a sign of a good point guard is you forget that he's controlling the game or trying to control the tempo or recreate a tempo.

So then when he do have the ball, you're like, oh, he cold. He ain't been in the moment. But he living, he almost like setting it up for the dramatic to live in that moment. And he got big, he like big lights. Right. It's only, I mean, it's just certain players that's like that over the history of the league. It's like, no matter how big the moment and the lights, especially when you, in a situation, you down one,

you got nothing to lose. Like the lights get bigger and your bravado get bigger. And I think that's, especially the type of shots he shoot. Right? The shot he shot against the Knicks where he went out, dribbled out to the three and shot of three and made it. And now you look at this one, he's just setting the table. And they freedom allow him to kind of be a.

disguise. So he don't need to, he don't need to push too much. He can, he can be a little bit more aggressive and looking for his office game. But the way he operate that offense and the way they play with freedom,

they got other people who make plays. And to your point, Siakum, he's another dude that plays with freedom that you're not really looking at and saying like, damn, man, we got to stop Siakam. because he he he gets a lot of intangibles, officer rebound pullbacks, uh,

leakouts, right? You know, uh, secondary trail one-on-one ISO pull-ups. So all these stuff is afloat. They're a tough team because they're not scared. And they got,

they got, uh, offensive firepower. And, and everybody eats, B. Yes. Yeah.

It's, and, And I like what you said about him being a disguise, right? Because it's like, this is who he is. I mean, that's honestly why I really liked his game coming out in the draft. Because he is a pass first. That's his personality. That is his mindset.

I just, you know, I look at him and I'm like, man, okay, Seacum won the MVP for the Western Conference finals. Is Seacum that effective without Halliburton, meaning those. hockey assists. We talk about that, right? We had a, when we play, right, that day, it was like, how many passes can we get? And it wasn't just like, just a pass it around the perimeter. It was more of just the feel, the energy to the ball. And it's like, when you kicking it ahead, you know this, BDU's a score. It's like, man, you kick it ahead. You get somebody going. Somebody kicking ahead to you. You're like, oh, oh, he rock it with me. Let's go. Like, and I just, I look at That team, one, they're never out of it.

The power of the three points shooting. Yeah. You know, you look at their bigs and Miles, Obey Topping, Siakum, space to four. And Thomas Bryan hit threes. Yeah. Thomas Brian hitting corner three. So I think the adjustments looking at this next game, you look at OKC, they had to take their bigs out because of the three balls that they, the threes that they were giving up.

Do they do at the next game? You know, like they already went smaller. But when Indy goes small, they are big. Yeah. Yeah. They got two offensive boards in the fourth quarter that were big. One he got on and then another one he scores, Shade and box them out. Right?

Yeah. And so you just looking at some of those plays, like they're winning on some of those different plays where they have, you know, a bigger lineup when they are small because Miles can stretch, Seacom can stretch. Top and hit five threes, right? He started out a little shaky, but he settled in.

Yes, he did. And I was watching him. I'm like, man, Indy, if they could settle into this game, slow down because they play fast, you know, they were still right in striking distance. Yeah, the whole time.

They were the whole time. Having 19 turnovers in the first half, which is insane. They were still only down 10 points. And I'm looking at them. like, yo, they turned the ball over like this. They got 47 points, and they've created 19 turnovers. That's not good.

Like, you're not capitalizing on none of that. I think they ended up with nine. Like, they had nine, they had nine, they had nine points off those turnovers in the first half. And so it never really affected OKC. I mean, Indiana the way it should have. And I think when I look at what they just did, Nis Smith, 10 points, Siakum, 19 points,

Miles Turner, 15 points, Nimhar, 14 points, Halliburton, 14 points. Obey Topping 17 points. Everybody eats. That game reminds me of game one, 2015, NBA finals. And Dot, you are our leader's score. You had 20 and all the rest of us, 17, 19, 17, 14, 15.

Steph ain't had a crazy game. Clay ain't had a crazy game. And we won the game that way. We set a tone for us in that series. And they just did that regardless of all the things that happened. And so, you know, when you speak on OKC taking their bigs out, My only thing with that would be they had an eight-point lead when they took their

bigs out of the game. Absolutely. Yeah. And like, you're not going to out three Indiana. That's not what OKC does. Like, and so,

you know, when I watched the end of that game, like, yes, players make plays, but, you know, Sean, and both me and Doc,

we had the pleasure of having, when you get in that moment, Steve coming through. And Steve is a magician in those moments. The bigger the moment, the better Steve gets. And, you know, this Mark Dagnos first NBA finals game, you're saying Rick Carlisle first rodeo. Rick Carlisle of a champion.

That's right. Rick Carlisle made the subs that he need to make. He pulled Miles Turner at 307 and put OB topping in. You know what I'm saying? That's right. He playing chess. And Mark Digno pulled his bigs out and thought that, and went super small, and, like, to your point,

you said even when they're small, they still pretty big. They bigger than you. Yes. You know, that ain't, their strength is checked. Their strength is hardest time, and you got to roll with that. You're not going to out beat, I'll do them at what they do. And so. Agreed.

And you know, you know what mess, mess, and this one messed the nix up, to your point, as that is, you get cross-match. So when you cross-match with Indiana, it creates crazy matchup problems. That's why the Knicks couldn't find no picket rolls when they had Carl Anthony Towns at the five. It's like they flying down the court now faster than you and the point guard is six, seven. So now, okay, see, you play as small, but like you said, Indiana is a bigger team. And so when you run in back and you cross-match, now that's how you, they didn't call the time, you got Wallace or Halliburton, no Lou Doer.

Right. And so they are, and credit to Rick Carlisle, because you got to know when to make that sub to kind of throw the game off to kind of to throw it in your favor. Absolutely. And they're going to win the small lineup because everybody on their team rebound. Pascal Seaghan, he gets garbage, dirty, rebounds, putbacks, Halliburton rebounds well from a point guard position.

Neesmith, he flying over. He's just flying everywhere, right? And so that's the big difference is you can't match up with them in transition as such a defense. And that's how they came back. That's a great callout. And honestly, that's how they got those threes because across match. And again, the power of the kick ahead, right?

It's like either you got somebody that can get it off the glass and he can push it. And Dayday, that's what you're coming in. You remember Steve? Like every time get it out of bounce. Push. Now you got a scrambling. Now we got to get matched up. Boom.

Open three. Right? Or you got a big trying to run down to get a block. No, you're on a three-point shooter. You need to. Oh, now OB-topping. Boom. Three.

but OKC did change their lineups to match up. Yes, they did. Sometimes there is, you know, you can outsmart yourself. Absolutely. Trump match up with the other team instead of making them play your way, right? Right. So it's going to be interesting in this chess match to see what they come back with in the starting lineup. You know what that?

Go ahead, BD. Right, no, go ahead. No, go ahead. No, because I was going to ask you out a question. My question is, to that point, are the three's high. hurting you enough where you stick into your big lineup, did the threes hurt you enough? Because you still, like, like, like, Jay said, you still got an eight point lead with three minutes to go. So is it really hurting you for you to make that adjustment when this is your

bread and butter? And that's, and BD, again, those are the questions that coaches that, they, that can't sleep in night. That's, that's, you know, back to the huddle because it's like, yo man, like we had a lead. We were right there. What were the errors that we made? Now we can end up making, we can over-adjust, right? We can over-adjust and start trying to do things that are outside our comfort zone when, you know, really, maybe it was a, you know, it was a loose ball. It was an offensive rebound.

We got to get this board. We have to win this possession. The ball is goal, right? They were winning the possession game. And then towards the end of the fourth, you know, again, Indiana was making all of the right plays. And then you watch Caruso foul, put Nimhart at the line, right? Up the clock. Little things like that where you have the lead, those are mental heirs.

And Caruso's a champion. He's a vet. Again, but it's like those are the things that you inch closer, you inch closer. now you give them a chance to win it at the buzzet. Probably shouldn't be in that position anyway. The NBA finals are almost here, and every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs,

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Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co slash audio. If you're Indiana, you didn't play well at all. I mean, you play pretty bad. This is the best way to win a game one in an NBA finals, in any playoffs, series of expression in NBA finals, and vice versa, if OK,

could have actually hung on. It would have been the best way they could win game one. And here's why. Steve would always tell us this. Steve would always say, I'm happy we didn't blow that team out. Because if you blow that team out, now you've got a face added steam

when they come out in game two. They come and naturally, naturally you relax a little bit because you feel like, oh, we good. you know, if you blow that team out. Indiana didn't play well at all. They steal this game.

And now they come back with a free swinging game too. That's a tough position. Like we saw, we saw the Knicks do this last series with Indiana. It was the last series, absolutely. Now, all of a sudden, Indiana come out in game two and they're on fire because we know they're capable of that. Like, we know they're capable of coming out in game two. and being on fire.

So now if that happens, now you're in trouble. But here's the thing, where I'm not, where I'm not happy with the substitution, the change of the lineup is, you made your adjustment before the series started.

Like, that's something you go to. You go into game one. You roll with what you know. You roll with what you do. You roll with what you. Like, you, You ride with that. You don't make your series adjust.

You don't lay your trump down, your trunk car before the series even start. So now your adjustment is to go back to, like, you make an adjustment after game one that, like, you go two games with your star lineup before you, like, that was 68 games. 67, 68 games. Yeah. Now you're scrambling to, you know, to figure it out because you've already made that adjustment and instead of maybe enforce your will first, right? Or see what the lay of the land is, you know, before you start showing the Trump, you know, before you start showing the different adjustments you have.

You know what that says to me? That tells me. It says y'all know your heels already. Already. But that's, but even a step further than that, that tells me that that coaching style is not confident in how they've looked in these playoffs because that means like something like Indiana thinking about changing their star line up because they are very comfortable with how they've gone through these playoffs they were

that's how they got four one four one four two right like they feel very confident in and what they're doing and how they got and what that says to me is okay see don't really feel confident in how they got here. And that's a very interesting thing to me, just to watch, I don't know about it. I don't like that at all. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to draw a reference to We Believe,

because before the series, Dallas changed their lineup. And the whole thing was, are they going to stay big? Are they going to go small? Like, the whole conversation was what they're going to do before the series even start to adjust to what we're doing. And I think part of it is being overconfident. Yeah. Because they start off and say, okay, we're going to go big. And then they immediately went small, right? And they got to plan our game and they can never get out of it. So when they tried to go big, like we had already figured that adjustment out. Yeah. Then when you go small,

we already got like that's our pace. And, and back to Indiana, Indiana going to win the small big line up. Absolutely. The big, big lineup, you already took yourself out. Because you're not weighing in on the positive of the Harkins thing. You're not weighing in on the positive of what chat is going to bring you. And so when you get to that moment, I'm up eight. Okay, we're going to spread the floor.

And SGA going to go to work. Williams going to go to work. The floor are going to be spread. But Indiana plays basketball. like that. Yeah. Okay, so you don't finish games like that. Right.

You don't finish games like that. So you're already off balance. And I think sometimes it can be overconfident to think that, all right, like, we can play, we can play any style. Yeah. For sure. And you come. Go ahead.

So let me ask you. Right. Like, if you see that, you go on the other side, you're Indiana. And now you're seeing the matchups. Does that give you confidence? like, oh, they already adjusting to us, right? Like when you went in Dallas made those

are you thinking like, okay, they can't, they're trying to play and catch us. So does that give you confidence as a player, right? Yeah. Yeah, because you, you've, you've figured out how to beat them.

Right. The way you play. So if you can play, you're more confidence than if I can, if I can control the pace, if I can control the style, then they can't beat us playing our style and our pace.

If we can stay with them or whatever they do, we prove that we can come back. If we can stay with them, then we got a chance to win it. So your confidence meter, it just go up. Like, you ain't even thinking about, Indiana not thinking about losing at all. Yeah.

They're not thinking about no, like whatever adjustments that they're making, it's an adjustment to win. Right. Okay, C, is trying to figure out how to win. Right, right. And they can play better, too.

Yeah, that's the thing. Indiana can play better. A lot better. Because, I mean, 20 turnedovers in the first half, like, that's not a lot of. Yeah. Like, I was, I was, throw that the trash.

Like, that's terrible. You know, but to be in striking distance, I mean, again, that's, it's confidence that we can come out and even, even play better. So. Jay, I was waiting for you to, say and Halliburton didn't have a good game.

I could hear your voice in the fourth quarter and he's like, man, they're coming back and Halliburton ain't even he ain't even visible in the game. That's a problem. I can hear you saying that that's a problem. When he don't have a good game, he usually don't have too bad ones in a row.

If I had to guess, he's going to come out game two so damn aggressive. He's going to come out. he going to come out downhill. Like, Halliburton is like, Halliburton is like,

Peyton Manning. Like, the last thing you want Peyton Manning doing is playing with the league. Like, Payton Manning gets to play with the league and he gets to dial up anything he wanted to dial up, good luck. Like, because you put him in these situations where he can run, he can pass, he could get to the line,

audible, watch what you are to do, audible again, You're trying to audible, he's gone. Like, the last thing you want to do with Peyton Manning is put him in that position to just be free-swinging and doing what he want to do. And that's now the position that Hallie is in. And he's going to come out five. And that's trouble. It's interesting to see that he came out the first half. I think he took like five shots.

Shea took like 19. Yes, he did. So, you know, I'm thinking of myself in that first half, man, like, one of them setting the tone for what this series is going to look like. And then the other one is just trying to fill it out, right? And that's the flow. But to your point, BD, the way that they play all year alone, right? Like sharing the basketball, trusting each other.

There's something about the energy in that, you know, in that system to where, when you can constantly sharing it, constantly sharing it, it's going to find you. And in those moments, who they give it to. Like, Emhart hit big shots. Like, Nih-Hare hit a big three. Yeah. Neesmith. Let's see a lot.

They just know. They just, and I was going to say this is, us is, when he has the rock in his hand, he's, you don't expect a turnover. You don't expect nothing bad. You're like, you figure you're going to get a really good shot. We're going to get some. And the whole team knows that.

So him had, like, like, like, like, Jay said the Paymanning analogy is, you know, him with the lead is like he gets to start picking his poison, like how he wants to serve up dishes. And going back to the turnovers, he's not turning the ball over down the stretch. He's solid. Yeah.

He's solid with that rock. Right. He's solid with his decision making. And I think that's what Shea needs to kind of pick up more for OKC. You got to be more of a playmaker. You got to be on your defense and growing. You can't just score the points on this team because they can all score points. Absolutely.

You don't have to like make plays for the, you don't have to make your big guys more valuable in this series in order for you on to win. SGA, to the point, he finished with 38, made 14 mid-range jumpers in game one. Damn. He led to league in mid-range jumpers. He shoot the mid-range jumpers. He shoot the mid-range at 51%.

Obviously, I watched you destroy guys with the midi, get filed every time. Every game, once a game, at least you're getting filed on the midi. Yeah. Do you think that ultimately it can still be as effective versus the threes in today's game? No. You need a diversity of play in today's game. And I say that because of just the way the game rules have changed.

And then the way that we prioritize the analytics in today's game. And so with that roster construction, you know, will be built around, you know, spacing the floor, taking the best shots, being more efficient. And, you know, again, we come from a different cloth a little bit from different eras of how we play inside out, right? And that train has left the station fellas. And it's not back, you know, I think until, you know, I think you had your kids, you got in B, you. you got guys that are dominant in the post. But again, these guys can shoot threes. Yep.

Right? And, you know, again, they can clay make out of the post. So you look at what SGA does. He had 38. How many threes did he take? He took six threes as well. Yeah. Right.

So, you know, he can also burn you off the dribble from the three. You got to respect it. So now he can get you on his hip. and for a MIDI guy, that's where you want to. Yeah. You know, on your hip, create space, get to your slot. And it was looking beautiful out there. But, no, I think you definitely need more diversity in play

because of how fast the game is now. And you've got to keep the defense guessing. Yeah. You know, to. Yeah. I think you speak about getting a guy on your hip for the MIDI. I actually think if I'm guarding, Shee.

I'm sending him left. I'm riding his right arm, and I'm not recovering on the drive. So if he, if he want to go to the rim every time and try to shoot a leg up, I'm going to have my help come over late. And when I had a help come over late,

because shake him past the ball, but he's not a passer like last second or, oh, you come help last second dish. Right. He ain't passing it like that. Like, once he gets his mind, on scoring and going to the rim, he'd get into the cup. And so I'll help late.

And anytime he started driving left, I'm not cutting him off. We used to do it to J.R. Smith dot because he wanted to step back. Obviously, She's a totally different player than J.R., but certain guys, Lou Will, where you don't cut him off because they look at the stop and shoot the step back. And Shay is like that. And if you get your body in front of him, he's going to shoulder you. and if he missed with that shoulder,

he's going to forearm you, and he'd get away with that. And so you can't get in front of him because you take your helper out of the picture and he just shooting a wide open middy every time. I think you actually should ride the hip on him. When we played Boston in the finals a few years back, I noticed something in playing against them,

and we put this rule in the series. I noticed that Jalen Brown could pass but if you help early on him he couldn't make the pass like he wasn't at that time he wasn't strong making the pass if you help up early

so with him we will help up as soon as he started driving we would help up early with JT we know he would make the pass early so we helped late like right at the rim we helped on on JT.

And it gets that detail at this warrant. And okay, and I think Indiana, that's something that they need to figure out. Like, do not get in front of Shay, get him left. Don't get in front of him, just ride the right arm and force him all the way to the rim.

You got Miles Turner at the room, you got Thomas Ryan at the rim, you got Obie topping at the rim. Is he going to hit enough layups to beat you? And another thing with those layups, when he go and take those tough layups, he fall down. Well, guess what, Indiana? That's their advantage because they get not running. So you get the ball. It's gross minutes. Boom.

He getting up on the floor. You're running. And so I think you know, when I look at, when I look at that and I hear you say like you want to get that guy on your hip, that your jump shot was like this. So you, man, I'm sorry. Yeah, my elbow might be a little ashy. I was scared of that. I was scared of that man. You get your shot up here. and a guy get on your side, it really don't matter

because your shot was way up here. She shot got way up there like that. And so that guy ride his hip like that, it could bother him a little bit, I think. But go ahead, Biddy. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Fill that in. I was going to say just real quick, he does like to get to that spot.

I honestly think he likes to go left with the midi because his right shoulder. Yeah. Right? Me to the spot. However, when you bring the help, now you give them something to think about. And as we know, so you get me back, I feel like I'm in the fox all over again. So I'm going to get on the sweat a little bit.

When you, we know it's only a couple of guys that can make that type of pass, you know, on time, on target. Because when you bring in the double, it's only a few guys, one, that they get double teamed often. so they have to read it. They know it's coming. They know where to... But the bronze, the Lucas, the guys that can really, you know, make that drive and then hit the open, man, right?

Because if we know that we're doubling, the back line is already... We already thinking, okay, I'm in rotation. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? I'm sinking. I'm ready to shoot out. I'm ready to fill.

So that's interesting because he does want to get to that baseline and he will pull up. Yeah. But if you bring him... can help now what is what is this next move? Exactly. You know, or just to play devil's advocate,

if you're a coach to OKC, right, to your point about the mini, it's hard to get to the mini because everybody's on the perimeter. That's right. You play your bigs and you get your big sitting down in the block. You're going to have space to ICE up.

And so it creates a different dynamic. dynamic because you got people now you got a couple people below the free throw line in the ghost area. And now for SGA, he can operate in that elbow, that 15, 16 foot. Because I say for you as now with the Warriors, which I was so good at, y'all will push the break, kick ahead to you. And you already had the, you already had 10 feet. He was already had 10 feet. Right.

with a one-on-one with action on the backside. And so for OKC, they got to play these big dudes down the stretch because if you play five out, you play small, She can't get to his, he can't get to the mini. He got to go all the way to the middle. You can get to the mini because everybody is hovering around the perimeter. Absolutely. That's a good point.

That's a good point. Lastly, just to follow that up, Drey, I don't know if you remember this. We played, obviously, the 2016, and I hate that, I hate talking about, you know, 20 points in that game one, because we lost, so who cares? The series, but

we lost 2016 to Cleveland. We come 2017, and, you know, the Cavs, they're playing kind of the same way, but they're actually a better team. And I remember at the time we got

Katie and Kyrie, the way that he plays, The way that he burnt us really in those, that game five, game seven, getting to his spots. And if you watch, you know, being able to, you know, like, I mean, he comes from Kobe school in that way, footwork, spin, fade, right? Like, getting two spots. And I feel like I remember Steve talking about we were watching film and it's like,

you guys that are at the nail, if you could get in and contest from the behind, from the back. Yeah. A rear view contest. And I remember Kay getting a couple of those, Drake in those and just, so that's something to think about with Indiana, right? Just being those kind of in those pockets.

It's, you know, it's hard because you don't want to file and the guys or whatnot. But it's just something to think about. And to me, that's where OKC, I'm watching them in the first half. I'm like, damn, these boys everywhere. Yeah, they're sitting and they're rotating. If you turn your back, they own, you, you know, they biting down, you know what I'm saying?

And they got hands. And so I'm just, you know, that's just kind of the game within the game where you go back, you watch the film, you see how you can, you know, how you can improve on those thoughts. Absolutely. No, I agree with that 100%. Like, in Indiana, I think they get an opportunity to watch this film, too. I think they'll pick up on some of those little nuances, you know, and that, those little things. Like, you make She think about an extra shot of two like this,

that can change an entire game, which one game can change an entire series. So you have to pick up on those little nuances. 100%. 100%. 100%. Man, OKC been drawn close similarities to the 2014-2015-Go-Dstate Warriors

because won the playoff record, the offense, the defensive rating, average age of team in the regular season record. Sean, Jay, do you think this OKT, OKC team is similar to the 2014-2015 Warrior Squad that child was up? Where I think they're similar is the age, young guys, you know, with a few vets like Hardinstein, not Chet and those guys' age. Sean,

Andre, they weren't our age, you know what I'm saying? So we kind of had that balance. And Bogot, you know, Deely, they were older. So Caruso's been there before, right? So, like, I think they got a few vets, like we had that kind of

settles things down for them. And they got young guys, Shea, and, you know, J. Dub, I just kind of out there running wild, doing their thing, relying on their talent. You know, obviously thinking the game, but not to the level of the vets, because they've just seen more, you know. And so the vets see more, they help you more. They see these things, they're seeing these things develop. And so I think they are in that aspect.

Obviously, I've seen the playoff record very similar offensive rated. and I think, you know, we were number one. They're like three. Defensive rating were both number one. I saw those things. The end of season record, I think they're 68, we're 67. And so I see all of that stuff, and I see a young team that's gone through their lumps,

like they lost in the second round last year, which was seems now to be poised to take that final step. I can see those similarities, but the style of play, couldn't be further from the same. I think it's a completely different style of play. All those other things I see for sure. And I, you know, that can be great.

You got to close it out. You got to finish the deal in order for those comparisons to really mean something. If you don't finish the deal, those comparisons don't mean anything. But the style of the style of play is what I would say is drastic and different. similarities similarities similarities it's definitely it's definitely similar i mean he nailed all the points i mean we you know he really nailed it like listen they were the best team by far this season

by far and and honestly watching them too they did not take games off um oh like that was one thing if they were supposed to be a team that was that they were a lot better than they'd be the dog shit out of that team. Right. Right. And so the habits that they were building, that's what I watch and I see. I'm like, okay, you know, the steps, I think when I came to this team, 2015, I had come from playing with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Darren Williams. These guys were kind of already cemented in their careers, former champions, veterans.

they had a mindset about winning where they expected to win. When I came to Golden State, they had already tasted winning and I felt like they wanted to win. And I had never been further than the semi-conference finals. Dre might have been to the conference finals, but none of us had been to the finals.

Similar to this team with OKC. So watching some of, you know, again, I was interested to see who is going to settle into this game tonight and then where, you know, is the light going to be too big? You know, which team is the lights going to be too bright for? But watching OKC towards the end,

it does remind me a little bit of our first year going, you know, when Kyrie and Kevin Love went down and they went up to one, right? And it's like, we're not, you know, like, again, they should, they probably should have won this game. Okay, C. That was a fear, for sure. And so watching the paces come back,

you start to see a little bit of that experience, you know, even maybe on the coaching side. Not the shots, but again, this is new. This is the, and this is now you filling it out, and you can only get this by going through it, right? So that part, absolutely. So like that part now, you know, reminds me, and those are the similarities to where,

okay, now we got to figure it out. Now we got to figure out how to win, right? Like we, you know, in these moments, too, when it matters. And I think watching them, they have all the ingredients. Obviously, you know, they're the favorites. But like you said, you got to walk to walk now. And it's one thing to do it. And just last point on that, when we came in, again, none of us had any experience.

Brown had went to the finals, what, six, seven years in a row? And also 15, he went in 11, 12, 13, 14, then 15, that was his fifth year in a row. Fifth year in a row. And I just remember, I'm coming off the bench, so I'm trying to catch the flow of the game. I'm watching everybody's energy. And I'm just seeing just the difference in how he, you know, how he's approaching, orchestrating, just the calmness, the poise, right? And it's contagious. It kind of trickles down, if you will.

And I think we were searching for that, right? Because, I mean, it's deaf first time. It's Clay first time. They were, what, 26, 27. You know, like, so nobody had that experience. And but I think, you know, again, this is character building for OKC. So we'll see what they do with it. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world

of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. Catch action-packed, live events, and exclusive sports documentaries and profiles only on Vice TV. You just mentioned OKC being the favorite to win. Do you think people are underestimating how good of a coach Rick Carlisle is? You know, he obviously coached Dallas, which we just spoke on Brian, who beat Miami, upset Miami and the NBA finals. Do you think people are looking past that?

And not that Mark Dagenot is a great. I think Mark Dageno is a great coach. But there's always something to say for the guy that's been there. And here's what I will say. Rick Carlisle is coaching for every coach that has won a championship because I'm going to let you all hit on a little secret folks. None of the coaches that has won a championship want to have new coaches intern in Tennessee.

that fraternity. They like to keep that small. You know, maybe they don't win it, but maybe a guy who's won it has won it. They don't like new applicants, new entries. Timbers old. And to that fraternity. So Rick Carlis, I understand Rick Carlis,

for every coach that has won a championship right now. But do you all think people are underestimated his experience and what he's been through in these different playoffs situations? Shit, I know more. You can't, man. If you don't, you know, if you don't think Rick Carlisle is a great coach for me, look what he did with Indiana. You take them to the finals.

You know, look what he did with Dallas. And that run, right? You know, like reconstructed, like a reconstructed Dallas team or older team, like Rick Carlisle can coach, man. Rick Carlisle been in the game. He knows a game. He loved a game. Yeah.

and you can see he's not afraid to make adjustments. There's a confidence that I think, you know, Jay, we talked about it when we was in New York in the Knicks series. There was just a confidence of, man, what is he doing? Why is this person? Why? And it just worked. Yeah.

He plays 10. He may play 11. He has so much confidence and his players have so much freedom that they over index. Obie topping the night, five threes. Right. Is it a genius move?

It's the move he made. Right? And he's not afraid to make those moves. And I think everything he does is calculated and being in that moment. He has scripts that he can pull from. Yeah. Right. He has an old playbook that he can pull from and say,

maybe this will work as opposed to OKC. where, hey, we had this in the playbook, and we had this before the game. If this happens, we can go small. Yeah. Right. And you still win this yet. Right.

Now, that's the fact. I think when I look at this Indiana team where Rick Karloff, Doc spoke about our first time doing it. Like, and how none of us had done it. And he spoke on the levels that we had played on. the one person that had been through it out of all of us was Steve Kerr. And he was the one that was kind of telling us,

hey, fellas, this is going to be a little different. On this day, you're going to have to practice at the arena. We don't really practice at the arenas. That's going to be different. He's like, you know, when you go out to shoot, there's going to be a million people around the court. Like, it just kind of throws off your routine a little bit. You have to, you will have the hunch

to start going to talk to people you know, stay locked into your routine. You know, there was, what was, well, oh, the opening practice the day before where the media coming to your practice, like, he's kind of telling us all these things, preparing us for this moment,

whereas I don't know if OKC has it, Alex Caruso, but having that in the coach, like, it's extremely calming. Like, Steve would just be like, all right, we're cool. Oh, that happened. All right, no problem.

Like, we'll do this now. And the confidence he would have trickle down to us. You know what I'm saying? And so they got Rick Carlisle, who I can see is doing that. He's cool. The other side of the pillow. Seacom's obviously doing it. You know, and that team is feeding off that.

And I think that's a dangerous thing to have and the experience that Rick Carlisle can pull from. And that playoff run alone, he went through the Lakers with Kobe. He went through Katie, Russ, James Hardin, O.K.C. Thunder. And then they played Bronwynne, Wade, and Bosch. And in all of those series, they were a combined 12 and 3. Like Rick Carlisle know what he's doing.

He showed that with some of the chess moves he made tonight, and I'm looking forward to watching that match up amongst the two coaches, the chess moves that they've made throughout the course of this. series because I think that's going to be fun. Absolutely. And don't forget, I mean, I'm taking away back now, but this man was with Indiana when Mary Bird took the Pacers to the finals. Yes, he was.

I mean, we taught 2000, but again, just that experience is invaluable. And hitting on that with Steve, it's like there's nothing like going through it and then having someone give you kind of the blueprint or snapshot of what to expect, you know, from a leadership standpoint. So, um, I felt like Carlisle was in Detroit, too.

Wasn't he in Detroit when they made their run there? Conference finals. They went to a couple conference finals with, we're in Colorado in Detroit. He's seasoned. He fired him and let him go and brought Larry Bird and, I mean, Larry Brown.

That's right. Larry Brown is. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. He's seasoned though.

That's the thing is, you know, he has. Yeah, he got a lot to draw from. Right, he got a lot to draw from. And I like watching him coach because he make in-game adjustments. And he's not afraid to make those adjustments, to switch those adjustments up.

Because a lot of times coaches don't have counters for counters. Yeah. Right? They have scripts and they have game plans and they go off their script. They go off their game plan. and sometimes you don't have a feel for the actual game or not paying attention to the actual game if it's not going to your plan.

And Rick Carlyle was like, you know what? Hold on, this is not going to our plan. Let's switch it up and see if we can find tempo. Maybe we can control tempo and give ourselves a chance. Maybe we can shoot more threes or pick up the pace, right? You got to have a coach like that, especially in the finals. And Steve Kerr does that too. He did that a lot.

I watch y'all make adjustments. I watch y'all make line-up changes, not so much line-up changes, but match-up changes, start working through other people, working through other matchups just to get the Steph, Clay, Katie, back in script, right? Just to get the three points hitting again. And so you have to have these counters and counters for the counter to be able to keep your flow. and it's just hard to bet against Rick Carlisle because he battle tested. There's something to say too about being poised.

And I don't, you know, again, I think this is very underrated from just a human component. You and that head coach and seat in a finals, there's a lot of pressure. But again, this is where that experience comes in to empower and stay with the guy when he messing up. When the Pacers came out again, they, they, would turn the ball over. And I seen it was a couple guys that was a little shaky, you know, and again, just throwing the ball around and that's okay, it happens. But just hearing him from the sideline, hey, sorry, next play mentality,

it gets you out of your own head, right, to where now, okay, I'm in the game. And some of those guys you see, like, they're in the game in the fourth quarter making big shots now, right? because they didn't let the first quarter, the first half dictate how they finished the game. And a lot of that is coaching. And your coach is pulling you when you throw it away right away, you know, telling you next shot mentality or, you know, next play. Come on, fellas, we got it. And those are the little things in that environment. And we all play with all three of us, you know, we played in OKC.

We know how loud that arena is. Like, you know, it's pressure. We're in the finals. Everybody watching. You want to perform. Your whole family watching. You want to put on for your city. Put on for your family.

Every, all of that. But you got to just, it's still basketball. Still. Yeah. That's a fact. That'll be locked. That's a fact. And also not to be,

uh, not to be forgotten. Rick Carl, I also won a championship as an NBA player. So. With the Celtics, right? So, you know, he's a champion through and through. And he's showing that poise.

But before we continue with more basketball talk, we have to mention that if you care about NBA history, you need to check this out. One move changed everything. The all-new series, The Grudge from Vice Sports, is a must watch. This week's episode takes us back to 1995, when Pat Riley from the Knicks,

when Pat Riley left the Knicks, not in a press conference, but a fax. Then he joined the Miami Heat and created the franchise we know today. That one move lit the fuse on a rivalry that would define both teams for years. Relive these twists and turns

and looked behind the curtain of what was really going on. The finale of the grudge unpacks every angle, the betrayal, bad blood and the battles on the court that followed. Watch the grudge finale Wednesday at 10 p.m. Eastern only on VICE TV. Find your channel at viztv.com. Move around the league a little bit. Conversations have been going around the league about big name players like Yonis.

And like does that player need to go to a bigger market? No, does the player need to go to a bigger market? No, does the player need to go to a bigger market to become a superstar? Guys like Shaq say a bigger market doesn't matter. However, Stephen A believes that market size doesn't matter to only transcend the players like Shaq. Do y'all think market size matters when it comes to becoming the face of the NBA? Championships matter.

I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, it's really hard to say. I think the face of the league is swag. Listen, I'll tell you why I don't think it matters. Being in the market, being in the big market and becoming a face of the NBA. I'll tell you why I know for sure it don't matter. Because LeBron James became the face of the NBA in Cleveland, Ohio. And that's not a big market by any stretch of the imagination.

Different. So I think you have to be that great. And I think what more so this brings up is because Stephen A. was saying like the pressure you get when you plan in New York or the pressure you get when you plan in L.A. I'm going to tell you the same pressure those guys get when they're planning those cities. LeBron Jays got that pressure in Cleveland, California.

in Cleveland. If he didn't win, like, there's noise, there's this, he can't do it no more. Steph Curry get that same pressure

in San Francisco, California. But if you don't win, it's a failure. Can they still do it? Is the dynasty over? When you are that great, the greatness creates the pressure.

Every year, Yon is, you know, Yonis be having these press conferences at the end of the year and be super philosophical. You know, it'd be getting deep in them

press conferences. But it'd be because people are asking questions. Like, why you ain't when, you know, like, those guys are under pressure no matter where they are. For sure. Now, is the media, from the media standpoint, are they going to talk a little more? Of course, the New York Post is going to get more eyes, you know, the New York Times.

Like, when you're in markets like that, when you're in L.A., like, yes, the Los Angeles Times and, like, different, like, those things are bigger. So I'm not saying the thing don't get bigger, but LeBron James was LeBron James without Los Angeles. and Janus Becalfe become Janus in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Like, Joker has become Joker in Denver, Colorado. Luca Donchish didn't become this Luca Donchis when he went to L.A. Luca Dantzsche became that in Dallas. Why did LeBron go to the Lakers? I ain't going to get it.

I'm not going to start. I think that's much bigger than just going to the Lakers, right? That's a chess move that you're making about the game of life. that's way bigger than just going to play basketball somewhere. So I don't think, I disagree. Like, I think Yonis, what the, I think what this brings up is, is how many true superstars are there. Because Janus is actually a true superstar.

Whether Yonis is in New York or Yonis is in Milwaukee, like, yeah, they may have more, a few more national TV games because he's in New York City. but Janus is going to be honest no matter where the hell he at. Right. I agree with that. I agree. I agree.

No, I agree with that. I think your question is, do you have to go to a big market to be the face of the NBA? I say no. But to elaborate on where you were going with pressure, I think we all understand there are more pressure. You have more pressure in those bigger markets.

And I can see why Stephen A says that because you are the media, right? So, you know, and we know what the media is like in L.A., New York, you know, Boston, in Chicago. Yeah, there is cutthroat, right? They seen Mike. They seen magic, right? They seen bird. Like, so, yes, and you will constantly be compared to some of those great players.

But to be the face of the NBA, no, it matters what you do on the floor. the end of the day. If you win, they will period. Period. They will come. And that's the point with Janus, right? Like he's been able to establish himself consistently. Every night he goes out, he performs at a high level, and he gives what he gives, and he separates himself, right, from kind of the rest, maybe from, you know,

from the rest of the All-Stars, you know, to be in a score. So it's still about production. It's still plenty. It's still about winning. And it's still about that at the highest moments. They go. Like, you know, to do it on the stage, right? Like, when it really matters, can you put your team in a position to win because of you, right?

Can you carry your team, right? Because it's, we all know that you're the guy. And so I think, again, those to me are the true superstars. And I don't think whether it's Memphis, whether it's, you know, BDU says swag, appeal matters, right? Because media, the social media, the culture, right? This is the story, yeah. Absolutely. The narrative.

So that matters too, but it still comes down to production in my eyes. It does 100%. But check this out, though. Check this out, though, BD&D. I think back in the day, the media in New York and L.A. was done. different back in the day. Yeah. But today we are under that same scrutiny.

Like, you're going to, first they're going to come on in the morning. Stephen ain't going to be on there crushing you. Kendrick Perkins is going to be on there crushing you if you are one of the guys. Like that, that's what they're going to do. And so, yes, it used to be like, man, in New York, the media, they would crush you. In L.A., the media they would crush you. But that was before the media culture of what? it is became what it is today.

And I think now, like, most guys are under that same scrutiny. Like, no matter the market you in, if you are a star and a, like, you under that same scrutiny, I end up getting discussed on, on first tape all the time, regardless of what it's about, they're discussing me on that show quite a bit. and I'm not in New York. I'm not in Los Angeles. And by all accounts, I'm not a superstar. But yet, I'm always being discussed on that show.

So I don't think that necessarily backs up. You know, like, I think it's the teams that matter. I think it's the guys that matter. Like, and how do you make a team matter? The Golden State Warriors never matter. We made that team matter. And so they're always discussing the Warriors now. I think you have to make those things matter.

I don't think it's the city anymore. Like, because media is nationwide, no. Like, it's worldwide. Like, basketball is a global game. Like, there's someone in Serbia talking about the games. And so I don't think it's specific to only certain markets. I think it's specific to certain teams and certain guys. Yeah.

They put, they put this era, they put Ms. Ducks on Sports Center. Yeah. In the highlights. You know? Like, so that goes to show you. Like, you got Miss Dunks making Sports Center. Well, we used to have to, you know, you got to dunk on somebody, do something, be something. But I think for Yonis, what it is is it's also like he's tasted gold, right?

And for, let's say, the three years that Milwaukee was number one and couldn't do it, he had a story, a journey. It was a hero's journey. when he won his title, it was like, damn, boy, do that man deserve that. Boy, do that man, like, has he reached a whole other echelon and level, right, of legacy

that he's carving out for itself in the NBA? And then the next year, and the next year, you're not getting close. You're getting further and further away from that championship. So I think for, for Giannis, is really they're not a contender. They're not really contended. And so for him being the finals MVP,

the finals MVP, like being able to taste that, like he had a great run, back-to-back MVP's. Everybody was talking about Milwaukee. Milwaukee was the talk of town. But when you're not winning, when you're not winning,

then in these small markets, it's hard. to be seen and discovered. Like, it's hard to to be a face of the league. But to your point, Jay, everybody got media. It's just, now it's like, for yonis, he got to

be on a winning team. Does that team in New York City or Los Angeles, though? Like, does it have to be there? Because that's kind of what they were getting at. No, he just got to be on a team that wins. Yeah, he just got to be on a team that wins,

right? Because, I mean, you can say playing in New York going to make you a bigger star. It's going to get you more endorsements. You're going to have more shit to do. But if you're not winning and you're a superstar at a goddess level, it don't matter where you go.

You go to Lakers. You go to New York. And you don't win and you do the same thing you did in Milwaukee is 10 times worse. Yeah. Absolutely. It's 10 times worse.

It's because of what he's accomplished too. Right. Right. We know who, you know, we know who he is at this stage in his career, right? Like what he's capable of. But, I mean, I don't mind what's happening with OKC. I don't mind what's happening with Indiana in this matchup. And, again, the best team, you know, Shea was in L.A., right?

And to go through the rebuild, now he was young. He also won with the Lakers. That's the different. I know you played with just a little bit. I know you got a soft spot. I know you got a soft spot. I know you got a soft spot. Hold that down.

It's just a little different. BD. BD, I know y'all got the clippers, but, you know, BD, you from L.A. Y'all know it's a little different. Jeremiah, why did LeBron go to the Lakers?

I'm just saying, if he was already a superstar. Well, of course he was. LeBron James. If he was already to face to the league. Why don't know. You're not about to try to go to L.A. Come on.

Because he was getting in the Hollywood. That's crazy. You're going to act like in 2007, when we was playing in the NBA finals over and over and over again, LeBron wasn't LeBron, you're going to really act like that? Yes, I'm agreeing with you, bro. I'm just saying, why did he have to go to Haleigh?

Because it was about more than basketball. Oh, God. So, you know, I think. So he still needed a, he felt like, like he needed a bigger platform. I think that's about more than basketball. Like, that's also. Also, at that point, he's in, what, year 16?

Hey, who wants to live in Cleveland? I love my folks in Cleveland, but, like, I want to live in Los Angeles. It's great living in Los Angeles. So, yeah, I mean, so relate that to Janus for me. That ain't got nothing to do with me. The biggest news outside of the NBA finals is obviously, Tom Tillew though being fired after leading the Knicks to their first Eastern Conference Finals in 25 years.

What was your reaction? Both of y'all, reaction to the Knicks letting them go, I've been lucky enough to have two coaches in my career. Have y'all, and honestly, I would say for myself, I was shocked as hell when Mark got fired because we had just went to two playoff appearances back-to-back years and the war. Warriors hadn't seen that type of success. So I was shocked by that. Right.

But in saying that, y'all have probably experienced it a little bit more than I have. What's it like when you feel like a coach should or shouldn't be fired? And do you think it was right that Tom Tipano was fired? Yeah, I go first because I play probably on more losing teams than y'all too. So I've seen more coaches get fired. It's tough, man. Man, you play all right. You got three championships

BD played on We believe. Come on. Hey, slow down. Slow down. I'm talking with me as long time else. Yeah,

we're here. Dot, yeah, I told him he'd be caught on here messing with it. And then I started to you back and now it's my thought. Right.

And people wake up lucky, Dot. You know what I mean? Hey, Dot. Some people wake up lucky. You know what I mean? So some people wake up lucky and shit.

You know what I mean? Some people wake up in the fucking, you know, on the nice, cedar side nods. So people wake up here in the clinic, bro. You know what I mean? And you got to, you know, it's the same baby. Right, right.

There's a certain baby's just handled with care. Hey, man, it'd be like that. It's like that. I'm not a separate. I'm looking at the situation with the Knicks in New York. I'm like, he's taking you to the playoffs, right? One, he was a coach of the year that obviously doesn't matter anymore. We see, you know, guys that get fired the next year after being coach of the year.

But, you know, again, after what they've been through, probably since I've been in the league, they haven't really been relevant, you know, as far as really believing that they can have a chance to win a championship. I think this is the closest that they have been. And I think you attribute that to Tom Tibido, right? You know, obviously Jalen Brunson, you get him. I think he goes to the Knicks because of Tom Tibido. And I look at these teams and I played for coaches in similar fashion that because of the way they coach, they will turn a team around. Tom Tibido is known in Chicago when he was in New York, Minnesota. of turning a team around and they play playoff basketball in the regular season.

And that's because of the habits and how he coaches, you know, his teams. Like, they practice, right? Like, we all know that, you know, like, he practiced, you know, pretty much probably, you know, I'm not going to say every day, but this man, like, you know, again, he's from the old school. So in that he doesn't, he's not really a coach that's a coach that's a. going to make a lot of adjustments, he's probably a coach that's going to make you play his style and his brand of basketball. Right.

Now, does that lead to, right, maybe, you know, the organization thinking that he should do things differently? Can, you know, can you not be on the same page with the organization? Because now, you know, like, are you, you know, is he too stubborn in his ways, right? With some of the ways that he operates. Those are the questions, you know, like over the course of each, you know, each organization he's at. They're getting to the conference finals. They're winning 50 plus games every season.

You know, these teams have been successful under his watch. And again, you know, sometimes you overcorrect. I think you look at Phoenix Suns when they had Nash and those guys. And they kept getting to the conference finals and kind of. conference finals and now you go and you trade for Shaq and you go and you do all these different things and try to switch up and you're right there and sometimes you know sometimes it takes a little luck sometimes I'm not like ball knees the bound like look at the shot Halliburton hit the first game of that series if he doesn't hit that shot against the Knicks is a different

story is it a different series like so all those little things that you question you say okay well it's the coach. And that's the hard part about the NBA because the gavel will fall on the head coach. He's the first to go. We know that. And now who do you bring in to say, this person, whoever they are,

we expect them to take us not to the conference finals, to the finals, right? I think that's kind of the expectation that you're setting as an organization by firing Tom Tibado right now. Yeah, I would say you will, there always regrets when Thidivode leaves because you need, there's a, there's a huge part of him

and his DNA that got you to that. Right. But at the same time, there's also maybe a personality, like there's a teen personality disorder or as dysfunctioned that as, that as you continue to go, you start to see like, oh, like, they just play hard.

And they're talented, right? And you start realizing that in order to get over that next up, you got to have that pivotal personality in that DNA, but you also got to have somebody who is paying attention to the guy. Mm-hmm. And when we watch the Knicks, you know, the reason why, you know, I'm looking at it.

And I said at the beginning of the season, Jane, that you can't play seven guys the whole year. Yeah. And so at some point, you know, this is year five for Tibbs. O.G. Ananobe, McKell Bridges, Josh Hart, playing all them goddamn minutes. Next year, they're going to be hurt. Yeah. Kat, hurt. And so you run the risk of, I mean, it's just a fine line because, like, you run the risk.

They're like, damn, we was right there. Tiv's got us right there. We bring a new voice in. Maybe he a little bit lenient, but maybe that ain't what they need. That's a fact. You feel what I'm saying? We talk about the Knicks type all year. Maybe that ain't what they need or maybe they're one or two players away.

I remember when Houston let go Trevor a reason, and, you know, people didn't pay much attention to it. But to me, I said, Houston is not going to be the same because sometimes it's the dude in the locker room, right, that hold everybody down. That's a fact. No, that's a fact. I agree 1,000%. I think what just happened to Tibbs is this. and you see it quite a bit in the NBA these days. Due to, in part to, I think, the success that we had

and on that run with Cleveland and the dominance that was going to NBA at that time, all the conversations nowadays, such as a championship, championship. And in turn, people try to ignore the process in getting to a championship. that shit is hard and it takes time. And the time is different for me. People, now, if you're firing tips, if you're firing tips, because you just think ultimately like,

he ain't a guy to get us there. That's one thing. But if you're blaming him for not winning a championship with this team, that's not the right thing because that's not a championship roster. I don't believe that the New York Knicks as currently constructed today. I don't think that that team can win a championship. I don't give a damn how many players team to play all year. I don't think that team can win a championship.

I think what Tom Tubino did and getting that team to their first conference finals in 25 years, I think that steps in the right direction to move it towards the right direction. I think that's a step in the right direction that say, hey, front office, we may be, to BD's point, a guy or two away, and really making this. thing go and like really getting over that hump. Me personally, I don't think the guy or two is some small guy. I think they need like one of the ones. I personally think like that team needs that.

And so no, I don't agree that tips should have been fired based off of this team not winning a championship as if they were championship of us and underachieve. their payrolls may say that, but the odd test coming from somebody who I believe I know what that looks like. Now, that,

that ain't, it's hard too because you end up measuring yourself against what the Golden State Warriors was able to accomplish or the Cavaliers have it, you know, like you start looking at the teams and how they built Denver,

Milwaukee got, you know, You start looking at these teams how they were put together and you say, okay, we've, we've had some success. We are right there. And again, is this the guy that can get us there? I don't, you know, again, they have to answer that question. But we're in this era of instant gratification because of what the media and, you know, the business. And, you know, again, we all benefit.

Yes, we all benefit. So, you know, it is a beautiful thing. The game has grown. You know, we have giants, you know, people have contributed to that over time that we have to thank. You know, and obviously the NBA has done a great job. But because of that, now the pressure cooker is a lot higher. You know, the temperature is a lot higher, you know, as far as I need to win right now, right? Like because, again, you know, the process, what it takes, can you go through what O KC went through?

You know, get to where they are now. Yeah. And the top that it takes to get there, can you make it through that time? In New York at that, right? Where, you know, they calling for heads out there, right? They're fans or the Lakers, you know, because let's be honest, the fans can be spoiled sometimes, you know? Especially when you taste success, you think it's easy in this world. So it will be interesting to see what happens.

But I would agree. I think they could benefit from adding a couple other pieces. But we'll see. 1,000%, man, we appreciate you, my brother coming on the show. It means a lot. I know it means a lot to be deep, but just. It means a lot to me. She's having an opportunity to share the time that I share it with you

and come on chop it up after the finals before you get out of here. Who you got winning this championship, my dog. Oh, man, I don't do that to me. Who you got? Get your pick him. Do that to me. Man, we out here in the West, man.

So I'm going to go ahead and stay local. Respect. Respect. Right. There it is. Stay local. Okay, so you're going to clean it up. Man, young money.

I appreciate you all. My brother. Yes, sir. My daughter. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. Appreciate you, sir.

Love. Love. Love to the fam, too, my brother. Always. You know it. Yeah. All right. It's our first live one, man.

Congratulations. Joe. You did it. Appreciate you, brother. We got through it, that was great. That was cool. Well, you know,

we, you know, I do got a couple more questions that I want to run by you before we get off. But before we do that, I have to remind you that Ice Q's Big Three League Tips Office, new season on Vice TV, and the opener is Stack with Talent, Saturday, June 14th, the Houston Rig Hands, led by NBA veterans, Gerald Green and Corey Brewer, and coached by Hall of Fame with Calvin Murphy, take on DMV trilogy, featuring Earl Clark, Isaiah Briscoe and coached by former NBA champ, Stephen Jackson. So check that out. Later, the Boston Bonhawks with 2022 Big Three MVP, Kevin Murphy.

Coach by the glove, my dog, Gary Payton. Town business. They go against Dallas Power, headlined by Glenn Rice Jr. and Royce White with Hall of Famer, Nancy Lieberman calling the shots. This isn't a warm-up. It's real competition, fast, physical, and every possession matters. So don't miss the big three season opener.

Saturday, June 14th at 603 p.m. Eastern, only on Vice TV. Find your channel now at Vice TV.com. All right, man. I got a question for you. Talk to me. After watching Game One, who do you have one in the series? I'm worried. I'm worried for OKC, man.

You cost you cost 21st, 19 first half turnovers. And you couldn't score to pull away at least to get up 20 points. Like 20 turnovers, like 19 turnovers and a half. That's insane. And all the guys are not playing well. Like nobody scored over 20 points or maybe even 17. Like that's, that to me is scary because you held the Pacers to 111 and their M.O. is defense. You held them to 1.11 and you lost.

Yeah. That's a problem because they're going to get, they don't get one. Like they, they don't get one. You know, and so to me, that signal is a big, big, big, big, big problem. And I have to say, if that's going to be the. the case, man. I got to roll with the Pacers. And I think the Thunder's supposed to win.

But between that and Rick Carlisle, you just, any close game, I'm siding with the Pacers. OKC has been manhandling them all in the regular season, all up until that eight minute, that three-minute mark or a six-minute mark in the fourth. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, shit. Okay, see, they should be the superior team.

They reflected that. Maybe this is just the game that slaps them up and wakes them up. And then I don't know if you know this, but y'all got the Pittsburgh Steelers, y'all wanted to sign at Aaron Rogers. And what the fuck y'all? What the fuck y'all think y'all want to do with that, dude? K. McKay.

We're about to trade for John News Smith. We're probably going to trade for another receiver. Super Bowl, Pittsburgh. Watch out. I like Mike Turner. Shout out to Mike Toler. Absolutely. But I don't think, I think Mike Tallinn and Aaron Rogers ain't going to get in law.

And that's my prediction. Aaron Rogers. Don't come in here. Don't come in here with that guy. There's going to be some drama. It's going to be some drama in Pittsburgh, baby. There's a way we go about things in Pittsburgh. And you coming into this culture, you must go about things.

things that way. And he will. That's Aaron Rogers, man. You can't tell her what to do. Man, stop it. Listen here. Aaron Rogers coming to piss my heart. You come in here, brother.

On one year deal, we're not putting up with no nonsense. You come here to play. You come in here to win. And at the end of the season last year, last couple games, he started to see Aaron Roger start stepping up in that pocket, man.

He's coming back from that Achilles injury. He wasn't stepping up in the pocket all year. And he started stepping up. him back up in that pocket like Aaron Rogers. So watch out. So you're excited about her. Watch out. You're excited.

Still Curtis. Let's go. Still, there's go. Still, you predicted. Last thing. You predicted Super.

I'm up on. Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. So you predict Super Bowl. It's happened. It's happening. Book it.

Okay. Book it. It's happening. All right. Yeah. You can book that. Last thing before we get out of here, I was very vocal at the All-Star

game time about it being trash. I thought it was awful. And it made no sense that. that G-League guys got to play in the NBA All-Star games crazy to me. You made no sense. Adam Silver came out a couple days ago and said it will be USA versus the world.

I like the idea. I think that was dope in hockey this year. It was a little different. But in saying that, do you like the idea and what do you see is possibly being the biggest concerns with the idea? Look, man.

The problem is, is the style. It's like you're not going, it's hard to get the competitive style in an all-star game when the style you play is very similar to what you're trying to reproduce in an all-star game. Right? So like the style that they play now is very similar to like, the most magical all-star games that you could see, right? Threes, dugs, highlights, things like that. So now when those dudes go to like dump down the floss, right,

or show you something else, they're showing you like, man, we can hit half-course shots all day. And so I think personally, like we've gotten away from, I am an all-star. I represent my team. It makes you feel good. It makes you feel good for the players on your team, the organization, you put it off for your city.

I say, man, just go back to the jerseys, let everybody rock their jersey in the All-Star Game, East West. But, you know, we'll see what happens. USA versus the world. I just think that it fucks up the voting. It does. I think that's what I think the biggest concern to be. It changes the voting for sure.

I think competing on a world versus USA level is going to create something, although I don't know if they'll have the same pride that will have because it's not necessarily Canada or Serbia. But maybe they will. I don't know. But, you know, I see that they're trying to do. There's just a lot to ask in the middle of the city. They're moving the game to the daytime.

And I think that that'll make a little bit of a difference. Guys want to get out of there and get the vacation. You get in there earlier. Like, I think that can help a bit. But ultimately, I think if they look at the game, that open and practice that they do, they need to mix it and go with a real practice. So guys can actually put in some sets and, like,

actually like talking about making it serious and like have some time to get a workout out there. Exactly. Yeah, get some shout out. If they want to do that, I think they should do that. But, you know, you sell tickets to the opening fraction of sponsorships. So, you know, you got to give a little to get a little sometimes. But I think from the entertainment perspective, you got U.S. versus the world in the middle

of the season, I start thinking from a media perspective, just the coverage around the world is going to actually make it, you know, uh, a media spectacle. For sure. Yeah, I was like, all right, man, we know All-Star weekend coming up in LA, what kind of entertainment we're going to have? Is it going to be Fugazi?

You know, are we going to have a culture involved? All-Star weekend used to be a celebration like a homecoming. Yes, it was. Where all the players felt like coming. Yes. All the players felt like, hey, man, I got to show up at All-Star weekend to see my former teammates,

to see my nephew, And Gassah, you really start to seem like, you know, we are like a big family. And we start getting away with, we start getting away from that because now everybody kind of like, oh, you got the corporate party over here, the corporate party over here. But it's like, and everybody's busy. So players don't get a chance to hang out in the lobby and it'd be third. And, you know, like how we was in New York. Like, that's what All Star Weekend used to be like.

Like we all go on a dinner. You know what I mean? Like when you was an All-Star, everybody's going to the same places. We all hanging out. We're happy to be around each other, this old, young, new, and next to come, you know. And I think that's where we got to get back to.

I want to see Legends on the sideline of the All-Star game. I don't want to see John Legend. I do not want to see John Legend sitting nowhere on the floor, bro. They don't fuck with basketball. They don't even matter to the game. Right? We don't care that they're watching. Put some

legends in those seats and let's tell their story. Right. Man, do not put John legend on the floor, okay? That's funny. Listen, I think I'm going to go kick it. I'm going to spill his drink on her.

That's hilarious. I think I think it can get better. But I've always said this, it just has to be more about the game. So we'll see. You got to be about the player. Yeah, we'll see.

Maybe they can get it right. Hopefully, hopefully. Do not put John Ledger. But you know, BD? All-Star weekend is the last thing I'll say. All-Star weekend used to be like a cultural, like, phenomenon. Like culturally, like, it's lit.

Like, you got to go to All-Star Weekend. All-Star Weekend today is just a corporate. It's just a corporate. Corporate Tea Party. Yeah. And, you know, those aren't always the most fun. So, you know, we'll see. We'll see how I go.

But we appreciate y'all for tuning in our first live episode, Indiana takes game one. We want to thank Sean Livingston for coming on the show. Thank y'all for tuning in. next time. That's a wrap. From the Draymond Green Show with the legend Baron Davis, my brother. Appreciate y'all.

Peace. Great snake, channel. Like, subscribe, comment. Send us shout-offs. We out. Volume.