The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Pacers-Thunder NBA Finals Game 2 reaction

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Draymond Green reacts to Shai Gilgeous-Alexander dropping 34 points in Game 2 of the NBA Finals to help the Oklahoma City Thunder bounce back against Tyrese Haliburton's Indiana Pacers. Dray breaks down OKC's all-around team effort, with solid contributions from Alex Caruso, Chet Holmgren, and Jalen Williams, and questions why Haliburton took his foot off the gas after stealing Game 1. After, Dray reacts to San Antonio Spurs center Victor Wembanyama being photographed with a shaved head at a Shaolin temple, the Phoenix Suns hiring Jordan Ott as head coach, and Los Angeles Lakers star LeBron James saying that youth basketball is being damaged by every player having trainers.2:30 - NBA Finals court controversy 4:30 - Thunder even series at 1-1 reaction 14:30 - Alex Caruso more important than Chet? 30:00 - Wemby the monk, Suns hire Ott, LeBron on youth basketball #Volume #Herd Follow The Draymond Green Show on social media:  https://www.instagram.com/draymondshow https://x.com/DraymondShow https://www.facebook.com/people/Draymond-Green-Show https://www.tiktok.com/@draymondgreenshow Watch BIG 3 Basketball, Saturday, June 14th at 6:30PM ET – only on VICE TV. Find your channel here: https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/channel-finderSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green show with Baron Davis. I'm on solo tonight. BD will be back Wednesday live after game three. Just jumping right in. Obviously, it's NBA final. That is the most important thing.

Although it's not feeling like the most important thing. There's this whole debacle with the court and like it. So I'm going to rewind a little bit. somewhere along the archives, you can see me talking about, like, the NBA course and how, like, it was so dope when at the center of the court was the logo, but the big Larry O'Brien trophy.

Like, that was so dope. It was fine. What happened to that? And, like, sure enough, we had went to, like, the size saying the finals or a trophy somewhere. And, like, what happened to that? You know? So we come into this year where,

by all intensive purposes, everybody's kind of been writing off this. NBA finals, you know, in large part because it's like A, two new cast of characters, OKC, and Indiana. But when I also cast new cast of characters, it's not Braun, it's not Steph, you know, it's not like Jason Tatum or, you know, guys who you've seen in it over and over and over again. It's not that. It's different.

It's young, it's young gossip. So I feel like a lot of people have been riding this spinos off. And so with that going on, the last thing I would have. expected it was like no trophy be on the court. Like, I'm a fan of the trophy being at center court, big as hell. And like, there's no trophy on the court. And, you know, I saw everybody going crazy about the flag waving. The flag was waving.

And then the trophy appeared on the court. I saw some funny memes on Instagram. One of them said, they gave us the herein where. Here, Trophy. I said, oh, my God. Here, get out of here. There you go. The internet is undefeated.

But, you know, I was really shocked by that. And so, you know, and saying that, getting back to the game, game two, we have a 1-1 NBA finals, OKC. evened it out winning the game 123 to 107 kind of getting back to their dominant ways. Although it's crazy, I don't know what to make of this series. You know, you watched this series,

and it's crazy because, okay, see, that's two times now where you see them build up that big leading, you think they're about to like, and it just kind of floats around 2019, 17, 11, 22, 17, 20. Like, it's kind of floating. You ain't necessarily seeing them put them away, how they've put teams away.

And to me, that's interesting because you always know, like, Indiana, what they've shown is that they're always in striking distance. Like, you get them a puncher's chance, they're taking the chance. And so they've shown that. And so this series is just a little weird to me. I think when I watch this series,

what I'm taking away after a couple of games is like, Like, who are the most important players in the series? Like, who, when you watch this series, who's like, oh, man, this guy has to play well in order for this team. Obviously, Holly has to play well. No, Holly had, I think, 12 points in the fourth quarter, end up finishing with 17. But I must tell you, the hot, and I said it last time, the Holly that I thought would come out. it wasn't that guy, right? Like, I think he came out like,

like you got to understand. See, this is where experience, you always hear people talk about experience in these moments. This is where the experience take over because I said after the last game, I was like, yo, highly going to come out, he's going to come out firing him, he don't have two bad games in a row.

And to me, it didn't feel like he came out forcing the issue and not having the bad game. Like, because when you, when you're the guy and you in this situation, And so, for instance, they pulled out game one. Surprisingly, shockingly, shouldn't have, couldn't have, wouldn't have, whatever you may feel they pulled out game one. Putting them in the driver's seat.

And guess what? The reality is they're still in the driver's seat. They won't want to going back home. But that put them really in the driver's seat. Like, there's no better feeling than the NBA finals or any playoff series. You pull into town and you win game one. And you free-rolling for game two? There's no better feeling to having a free roll, free swing.

You got a free swing in game two. There's no better feeling. But when I say the experience comes in, I saw Holly complain for a foul call, like try to flop early in the game. And I said to my boys, I said he should understand they up one-off. You got to run through everybody just up one-all to get the win.

Like, you ain't getting a flop call. You ain't like when you are 1-0 in that situation, you got to like you got to do all that you can to take game to and you got to show everybody what you, that you mean business. And you have to, and even when you show them that you mean business,

you still got to go take game to and no call, no whistles going your way. That's just human nation. It's just not happening. And so when I saw that early on, I was like ha, I literally said to my boys, he got to he better understand what.

And so that's where I say the experience takes over because when you're the guy in that situation, you got to come out going for broke because you have to play incredible. You got the guys that's across from you pissed off. These guys even pissed off that they just feel like they gave one away. Their first ever NBA finals experience, they feel like they gave the game away. Not only are they pissed off that they feel like they gave them away, but naturally they're down 01. Like, you got to come out pissed off. can not go down 02.

And so you're up against that. And I just didn't think he came out with the oppressiveness that it would have required him to win. Like, in order to go take that game, too, he got to come out so aggressive to where his guys on his side, like, hey, that's what we own. Like, it's almost like an A-C-Land-like, all right, like, well, I can't leave him out there. So I got to do X, Y, and Z.

And I just didn't think I saw that. saying it's the first time all playoffs i'll say i ain't saw that we've seen them win game one after game one after game one and game two they came out fire like so it's the first time i'll say that i can recall them like not like coming out swinging and so i'll give them that but i think that's just something that you have to understand and experience can't change that you know so you got okay to see with five players with 15 plus first time in the NBA finals since we won't talk about the NBA finals. Who the fuck cares about that NBA finals?

You want to know when that NBA finals, unless you're going to look at it up this. So we want to talk about that NBA finals. And moving on. You know, I told y'all I get these rundowns and like just to help you stay on topic, you know, on there. So I know what topics I want to hit, boom, boom, boom. And then I roll.

And we got Charles over here, but it's the first time since the, finals versus, you know, whatever. Throw my whole aura off, man. Anyway, just throw my whole, you know what? Moving on. SGA had 34 points, 8 assists, 4 steals, and game two. While, you know, they have five players with,

I'm so thrown off right now. Like, y'all don't understand. This is, like, the fourth time he's done where he, like, throw a little jab. Like, and by the way, y'all should know this wasn't on my rundown. When I first looked through my rundown and it wasn't on there,

then you look back in their parentheses. It's their first time since 2019, NBA final in the body of Raptors. Like, that's a very soft spot for me, if anyone could guess why. And I'm not over. You can never get over these things. But anyway, Shea passed AI for the most points in the first two career finals game.

AI has 71, She has 72. The significance of that, shout out to AI. Happy birthday to the OG. Happy 50th of birthday. AI turned at 50 is crazy. Like, AI is our childhood. And he turned at 50. shout out to the OG

Bubba Chuck, man. We love you, AI. Nothing can change that. You are God forever. We appreciate you. Much love to AI. Happy birthday to the goat to the legend. Nothing beloved for AI.

I forgot where I was going with my whole thing because that thing threw me all the way off. But we're going to move on. The NBA finals are here and every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs, where heroes rise,

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agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Before we do that, I have to remind you that, Ice Q's Big Three League tips office, new season on Vice TV,

and the opener is Stack with Talent. Saturday, June 14th, the Houston Rig Hands, led by NBA veterans, Gerald Green and Corey Brewer, and coached by Hall of Fame and Calvin Murphy, take on DMV trilogy, featuring Earl Clark, Isaiah Briscoe, and coached by former NBA champ, Stephen Jackson. Later, Boston Ballhogs with 2022 Big 3 MVP, Kevin Murphy, and coached by the great, the club.

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Fast, physical, and every possession matters. So don't miss the big three season opener, Saturday, June 14th at 603 p.m. Eastern. Only on VICE TV. Find your channel now at VICE TV. So going back to

OKC having five players with over 15 points, it makes it interesting for me because when you look at OKC, who are the most important players on that team? And for me, I feel like I struggle with that. Like, I don't think there's any question that J.W is the second most important player, the second best player. However, you want to script it. it's J Duh.

I don't think any of us have any doubt on that. But I think where it gets interesting for me is when I watch these things, I try to think about these things in terms of like if I was playing against them, like, what are you prioritizing, right? Because when you go in these series, it's an NBA team. It's the best NBA teams. And a lot of times in these series you have to pick, like, I'm willing to let that thing.

beat me because in the NBA like it's hard to stop everything like you got so much talent you got so many IQs and basketball smarts amongst these coaches tasks that that's just how I think about it like what what would I be willing to look at and say all right that's the thing that's going to be me well in turn that requires you to look into context like who's the most important people you know like who's the, and when I look at it, when I take a step back and look at this, I always feel like it's hard. Like, who's the most important person, right? Like, in theory, you want to say it's Chet.

Like, in theory, it looks like it's supposed to be Chet. But, like, when I take a step back, I look at this team. Hey, Chet was out this year, a large bulk of this year, and they were just fine. Even Hardinstein was out for quite a bit, and that team rolled. Like, I think they had. like J. Dub at the 5 or Lou at the 5. And they still continue to roll. Then they play Karin Williams at some 5.

Like, they just figured it out and continued the road. And so it brings you to the point of who's like the third most important player on the team. And also, who's the third most important player on the team may not be the third most important player in a series. And that's where it gets tricky when you start talking about third most important players, third option. Because like one and two is usually always one or two. That's what it is. And in the regular season, the third is usually third.

But when you get to the playoffs, third can be taken out of a series. And five or six can become more important than three. And I feel like when I look at this OKC team, I actually think the third most important player is Alex Caruso. And I find it very interesting because, hey, come off the bench. I think that's always interesting in itself.

like he's coming off the bench he's the third most important player sometimes you run into that in the regular season Lou Will for instance right like you got a coach that's agreeing like yo we want you to get this six man in war like but when they get to the playoffs he usually go out the window and I think Caruso is so important to what they do and I feel like you never game plan for him and so because you don't game plan for him

he come into these finals and he go crazy but the reality is he's a champion. So he actually knows what they expect. If I'm a bedding man and not even a bedding man, but if I am a coach, if I'm an opposing coach, I'm saying, man, I know this guy,

but see, and that's where I think playing makes a difference is like because you understand a little more. And I'd be like, Caruso's been in this moment. He's shown us over and over again he can deliver in this moment. I think I'm going to make the guy,

I'm going to make him so, important to our game plan, I'm going to make less of it importance than our game plan to the guy who hasn't done it. Can't do that to say? Yeah, he hasn't been there, but come on. Jay W. J. W., you try to if you want to. We once tried to let Jay Lambrown shoot threes in the game. We lost about 60. It's fine. It was just a throw something out there, cast it out there, see it where it didn't work. So don't go for number two. But for number three, I actually think Caruso is more important, especially for this series. And so place that bet on the guy that hasn't done it,

and Chet hasn't done it. I know Caruso can beat me. He's shown me he can beat me on several different points. Back then, when he won a championship, he showed you he can beat you. And so I'm just not sure that that would be the bet that I'd be making. And I think that's where it gets interested. And, like, I think Indiana's dive going to have to take a deep dive, but, like, importance.

Like, who hurts us more? Because J. Dub had a pretty average, not great, but decent, like, decently productive game one. And they should have won a game. Like, they blew the game. But they should have won the game. But Chet was bad. Like, Chet did not have a good game. And you fast forward, J. Dube played better tonight.

Also, Chet played better tonight. Also, everybody played better tonight. But I'm just not sure that, especially in this series, that if I'm not the opposing coach on Indiana, I'm not making the bet that our game playing need to be focused on these three guys. What we can do to take these three guys out of it. And what can I do to take Alex Caruso completely at the game? How can I scheme against Alex Caruso to possibly take him completely out to game?

Because he's so important to everything they do. Like, defensively, he's so important to everything they do. Offensively, he could be another guy that can handle the ball. That's smart to make decisions. That's going to shoot the right shots and not take the wrong shots. So if you can put him in a situation where you can figure out how to make him uncomfortable, how to make him, how to make the coach second gas plan. Because he's clearly not all the way bought in on him.

he'd be starting him, like you understand the importance of that. So how can I put him in a position of where he have to think, I mean, and Mark Dagno, how do you think, and he may go the wrong way? I think that's what the Indiana Patriots has to be figuring out. Like, this has to be a matchup game for them, like, they got to get so diabolical down to each matchup, each person on the floor, how can we exploit any weakness that O'KC has? because obviously O KC is the better team,

but they don't have the experience. And because they don't have the experience, you have to exploit those things why they don't have the experience. And that's where this series gets really interested for me. Is can Rick Carlisle and his staff exploit OKC's youth? Exploiting their youth means a multitude of things. But simply put, put it in a situation that they have not seen that they can be on comfortable

and that it's going to take a little while to figure out. Because you already stole one game. So all of a sudden, you get to a certain point in NBA finals where you still won't get enough. You put doubt anything you need to creep in for you to win their series is what has to happen. So it'll be interesting to see if they make some of those adjustments to, to make them more uncomfortable. Because ultimately right now, I think even with OKC losing game, one, they were comfortable.

Like, they felt like they should have won. They came out. They played hard. They got it done. And that's that. So what can you do to make this group uncomfortable as I think what? And obviously, that's everybody's, like, thought, right? But, like, them more so than other, like,

how do you make them uncomfortable to where you can play at their knee? because the only way you can play at their youth is to make them uncomfortable and then play at it. Right now, if you just leave them comfortable, it's irrelevant. But if you can make them uncomfortable and then pull their youth streets, I think that's how you ultimately got to beat this scene. And I think that's what Indiana has to do.

But going back to Holly, like I said, Holly got to be more aggressive. And you got to come out swinging because the guy's going to follow you. That's just what it boils down to. So we'll see. OKC's bench was great. You had Caruso with 20 off the bench.

You had Aaron Wiggins with 18 points, 5-3s off the bench. And now the show goes on the road. And it gets more interesting. You know why? Because role players play better at home. And on the road. And all the role players stepping up is what won for OKC today.

But I can see what Indiana's theory is. We're going to try to take everyone else out, make it tough on everyone else, and make She beat us one-on-one. Problem is Shay had 34 and 8, and everybody else got off. So if that's going to be the theory, you guys actually stop everybody else, and they did not do that tonight. So, you know, I think if I'm Indiana, I think you got to throw more zone. Okay, C, packed a pain a little more.

Sometimes you got to dare them to shoot. But I think just like with any NBA team, like, especially at this level, you got to switch it up. Like sometimes you got to be daring them to shoot. Sometimes you got to be flying at the close. And like, you just got to keep these guys off down. Once again, playing at that youth. I think if you can do that, that's ultimately what wins you the game. I saw something that Mark Dagnos said after the game.

He said, Indiana is an acquired taste. We haven't played them a lot. They play a distinct style on both ends. I just thought the guys did a good job of just improving, which is important going from game one and game two. I see what he's getting at. Like they're a little unconventional for sure. But when their balls down to it,

you got to go out there and beat me. And tonight, OKC just did that. So I think this series is interesting. OKC could very much so go win the next two games. Indiana, as we know, could very much so go on to win these next two games. and I think it's going to be like, ultimately, Rick Kyleow has to undoubtedly outcoach Mark Dano in order for the spaces to win this series.

I think Rich Carlisle is a great coach. I think he's capable of outcoach for someone. So we'll see if you do it. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. Catch action-packed, live events, and exciting. exclusive sports documentaries and profiles only on VICE TV. We're going to move around this league a little bit before we get out of here.

What is your reaction to Wimby the Monk? I saw a meme that said, oh, Wimby went bald already. It's over for the league now. Much respect to anybody who's following their religion, who's following their beliefs, whatever it is that they believe. Much respect to anybody. I didn't know.

It was a little surprised by the fuck. But I guess in 2025, you can't be surprised by any photo op. But yeah, when I saw, the first thing I thought was like, is he in San Antonio? Like, I hope he's doing well. Obviously, we remember he left with a blood call. So I've been keeping my fingers crossed and sending up my prayers to the big man just, you know, for everybody to be healthy. So I hope that means he's healthy. Moving forward to my God, Spartan Daw, Michigan State of the lawn.

He went to grad school at Michigan State. He's a Penn State underbrack. It's my guy. Actually trained me for the NBA drive. So a little quick story for y'all. I signed with Ron Shade coming out of college. Ron Shade is my age of Ron. That's my brother still to this day.

Ron is with Octagon Sports now, but Ron is my brother. That's my guy. And I signed with Ron coming out of college. And I went to Chicago where Ron lived. for like three or four days and I was training. And it wasn't that the trainer wasn't great because I actually thought the training was great. Like when I go to Chicago,

I still train with him. Like, he's incredible. His name is Basil. Bays'est incredible trainer. But I trained there for a few days and I told him like, you're going to go back to Michigan State. And the reason I went back was more so

it wasn't about the train or anything. It was about, I felt like I had grinded and became who I became at Michigan State. So literally my first three summers in the NBA. Every summer I went back to Michigan State because I felt like that was the place where I go and when I go there,

I lock in like no other. I grind, I get to it. And so that's where I felt comfortable like going through my pre-drive grind at. So I went back there and who trained me for the draft? Literally trained me for my pre-drive workout was Jordan.

Jordan was a video guy, our video coordinator at Michigan State. He had been to GA before, and he left and took a video job at Penn State, came back and took it at Michigan State and trained me for the NBA draft. Jordan Ott becomes the head coach of the Phoenix Suns. Shout out to Jay Ott.

Jay Ott came into the NBA with the hops, worked under Bud, super tight with Kenny, went to Brooklyn with Kenny, worked on the staff with Darverham, to Lakers, when it's Kenny's top assistant, Kenny Ackinson at Cleveland and yesterday

or two days ago was named head coach of the Phoenix Sun. And man, to watch somebody like come from a video coordinator at Michigan State, GA, to like becoming a head coach in the NBA, so special.

So I'm happy as hell for Jordan. Matt, HBM, Brian Greger, all Spartans, Paul Rivers, Spartan. Happy as hell for them. So congratulations, Jordan. Shout out to Jordan. I think Phoenix got a great one. Shout out to George's wife, Jordan. They are the best.

No, no sense. 16 years old and to see him become a head coach in this league and just grind his way up. It's absolutely incredible. but I know Phoenix got a great one. When you're talking X's and O is one of the best of the business, not a guy who's afraid to hear his own voice. Absolutely incredible to see. So I'm happy as hell for Jordan I.

And like I said, shout out to him. Shout out to Matt. Shout out to the Phoenix Suns. Locking in a great coach that I think will be there for the next 20 years if we want to be. Speaking of trainers, Brian discusses how the next generation I relying more on basketball trainers instead of just playing the game. I heard what Brian said.

I know he said like, yeah, I just went to hoop. And I agree with that. Like, growing up, I actually didn't know, I didn't learn how to do a proper individual workout so I got to college. It's growing up. Like, I'm going to hoop.

Like, where's the nearest run drop me off? I'll play all day. Like, that's what we did. We hooped all day. So I think there's a huge benefit to that because you just learn to see the game. Like, you learn to see the game. I talked on Kimmel the other night about my son

and just, like, watching him play and, like, how he knew how to play. And he, like, some of the stuff I know he'd pick up on naturally just because he's always around basketball. He watched it. And so you imagine growing up, like, you did. Like, we did. You playing basketball all day.

The nuances and things you figure out about the game, it's different when somebody just putting you in a position to tell you to do this move. Like, how do you use your, creativity. How do you learn like, oh man, I can do this if somebody just say, do this? How do you know what you're about? How do you know what your game is if you never tap into it and just figure it out? And so I understand like I think, you know, there's a time and place for a trainer. And I think, you know, where the game is gone. Like, you need those

resources in order to be successful. I feel like basketball used to be a poor man's game. Like we all played it. Poor kids played it. We were poor. We had nothing. And it was our way out. Basketball is not a poor kids game no more. Basketball is a rich kid game. Like the days of seeing LeBron James from Akin, Ohio from a single mom, those days are number. Like, they're not, because if you don't have the resources these days, like, you can't make it. Like, it's become a rich kids game. And basketball, it didn't used to be that. And so I think all of that goes into, like, with the trainers and stuff like, but that's, I also feel like that's why, like, you don't see as great of basketball as you did before.

Because there's no imagination. Everybody's doing the same thing playing the same way. And I think a lot of that is do sometimes too, having trained. Not that having a train is a bad thing, but again, if you never get to use your imagination, then you just become a carbon copy of somebody else to train and create it. And so I agree with Braun to a certain extent. I think, you know, you do got to get out there and play,

and you got to get out there and just figure it out. Because when you get out there on that court, ain't nobody to put you in a position. You got to put yourself in the position. Ain't nobody there to place you. You got to get there. So I think there needs to be a healthy balance, and I don't think that balance is near being found.

I did not watch the last Stevenson, Michael Beasley, one-on-one. This is a fan question, by the way. I did not watch it. I didn't know what time it came on, number one, but I did see like the back and forth before and after and saw some of the highlights that look very entertaining. One thing is for certain.

We all know Michael Beazer is one of the best guys to ever dribble of basketball and, like, shoot the ball and put the ball in the hoop. Michael Beazer is one of the best has ever done. I don't think, you won't get many basketball players to disagree with that. And so I heard it was super entertaining. I think it was dope.

I saw some people say it should be at. All-Star gang. I think King of the Hill would be fun, but it kind of becomes a dunk contest. A lot of people don't want to get embarrassed or how many people really do it. I don't know. We'll see.

Before we get out of here, who wins game three? You got Indiana going home? I'm taking Indiana game three. I'm going to take Indiana game three. Crowd going to be electric. They haven't played well. So they got to have a good game coming at some point. They're just going to keep playing bad.

And I'm going to think, I think they saved it for game three, first one at home. So I'm going to take Indiana game three. We shall see how it turns out. But however it turned out, me and B.D. will be right here live after game three. Check us out. Tune in. Don't miss out until next time.

That's a wrap in this episode of the Draymond Green Show with BD. But he's not here today. Peace.