The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Penny Hardaway on Michael Jordan & Steph Curry, Shaq-Magic split, coaching Memphis

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

  In today’s episode, we have Penny Hardaway, a four-time NBA All-Star, Olympic Gold Medalist, and head coach at the University of Memphis. He joins Draymond Green and Baron Davis to discuss playing against Michael Jordan, his top five point guards, and how he found out Shaq was leaving the Magic. They compare the 1996 Olympic team to the legendary 1992 Dream Team and talk about the best ball handlers in the league, including Steph Curry’s impact. Penny shares his insights on college recruiting and overcoming injuries. He aims to coach in the NBA, particularly with Memphis and hopes to leave a lasting legacy. Finally, they talk about his alter-ego, Lil Penny, and his desire to become an NBA head coach. 4:00 -  Start 16:45 - NBA Draft workout w/ Warriors & Magic 20:15 - Facing Michael Jordan 23:15 -  GOAT Conversation 27:00 -  Penny’s Signature Move 32:00 - 1996 Olympic Team 35:00 -  Coaching NIL Era 50:00 -  Shaq Leaving the Magic 53:00 -  Biggest What if 57:30 -  Baron vs Penny 1:00:15 - Magic Jersey Retired  1:03:00 - Is Steph Curry a Point Guard? 1:13:00 -  Current Orlando Magic Upside 1:17:00 - Coaching in the NBA in the Future 1:19:30 - 1-cent logo 1:21:00 -  Creation of Lil Penny  1:23:30 Top 5 Point Guards Ever (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #Herd  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use code Green for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code G-R-E-E-N for $20 off. Download Game Time today. What time is it? Game Time. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Dremont Green Show with B-D, my dog.

What's happening? Follow the show. Jemont Show on Twitter so you don't miss out on all the announcements. We got a special episode for y'all today. I am OD excited about this episode because... My guys. I grew up an Orlando Magic fan as a kid, and I was an Orlando Magic fan because of two people Shack and Penny Hardaway.

And my first jersey in my life was Shack with the... Stripes. I had an Orlando Magic Zip up Wansy. I had an Orlando Magic Nightlife. And for me, this is a dream come true. We have a 14-year NBA veteran, four-time NBA All-Star, two-time NBA All-NBA First Team, Olympic gold medalists and the University of Memphis, legend,

and head basketball coach. No, another. than the one and only, Penny Hardaway. What's happening, O.G? What's having it, fellas, man. Hey, it's an honor, man, because I'm a fan of both. Obviously, I've been knowing BD longer, but D. D.K., but D., huge fan, man. The way you approach the game, the way you play the game,

your mental, not even your physical part of the game, but your mental is O.D., bro. Just a huge fan, huge fan. Man, I appreciate that. That means a lot for me, like I said, just for me being a fan of yours. And we're going to get into that this episode. But when I heard,

opportunity. They're like, yo, what about I have an opinion on the show? I'm like, what? Like, it's crazy to me. So I just want you to understand, man, my love that I have for you, my appreciation for your career for who you are as a person. I can't, I can't state that enough before we get. No, I appreciate that. It's the same here, man. It's just one of those situations where just watching you just grow through the game, man, just from day one, honestly. And again, like I said, I've known BD way longer, but as far as what you said about me, it's the same, bro. I just, every championship, every game,

when I'm watching with my bigs, when I'm watching any player, it's just pointing you out. You know, we love Steph. We love Clay being there when KD came or all of that, but I'm like, Dre, man, you just got to watch a man. You are the type of player that I enjoy playing with. I had Bo Outlaw. I had these guys that just would run through a wall

and do whatever took and just never really got the full credit. You're getting the credit you deserve, maybe more. You need more. But at the end of the day, what you bring every day, man, to pure basketball people is what we love to see. Thank you. Man, and I have to echo,

you know, obviously my, my, uh, looking up to you, bro, I got an opportunity, you know, uh, I would say as a young kid when I was at UCLA,

to see you walk in the gym, uh, and I would say just throughout my career, you always been a guide. You know what I mean? And, you know, from what we saw in Orlando to the entertainment to just always how you carry yourself.

And then for me being a young dude in the gym, you know, like the way you baptized me in the game, that was a cold move. You know what I mean? I was cold because I picked you up full court. You know what I mean? You had the ball. We was at UCLA. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm about to pick him up.

And, bro, when you looked at me, you was like, are you kidding me? You was like. And then you hit me with like. like eight moves and you know UCLA court short, Dre. You feel, him? Yeah. He went in and out, cross, boom. Then he did the Smitty.

Then he did that. And I was like, man, I was sliding. I was like, man, hold on, dude. Like, I'm about to be tired as hell fucking with him. No, right. Hey, I remember that day, bro. BD, you were different, man. I ain't going to lie from the very beginning, bro.

You were mature way beyond your years in the game. Your change of speed, your athleticism, your knowledge of the game, your IQ, your toughness. Because you had that toughness as well to go along with that game. I mean, to change your heights, the change of speeds, everything, bro. You just, you know, I watched you. Remember I went to Miami when we was both coming back from rehab, man. I got a chance, you know, when we had our back, you had had some knee issues.

Like, we was both trying to make our way back, man. And they just soak up that gang from you. You know what I mean? And learn how to be, like, BD, if you want to get to that. next level. You know what I mean? Like it's all the fine details. And I never forget that because that kind of took my

career to my confidence to a whole another level, man. So you just, you are my guy. You know what I mean? You are my guy. There is nobody touching you, bro, as far as like game, the ism. You know what I mean? Just, I mean, it was almost

like you are one of the pioneers of hip, pop and who? How to rap music start, how to rap music start really translating into, oh, there he is. You know what I mean, the story. There he is.

You wanted the realest dudes to ever touch a basketball, bro, and to play this league and, you know, salute. Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man. I feel the same way about your game, bro. You were just elite. When I left UCLA, I called everybody. It was like, yo, Baron Davis, look out. And when you came into the league,

you did the same thing, bro. It was crazy how you did it at all levels. You did the same exact thing that you're saying that I did, man. And the illest dude that I've ever seen with a rock in his hands for sure, no doubt about it. Thank you, bro. That's, oh, man. Drey. How many are you averaging today? And today?

I don't want to make nobody mad, Drey, but I'm taking at least 30 for sure. Easy. Easy 30. In my prime, I'm not disrespecting anything. But in this day and age, this game fits me. It's not crowded in the paint. You ain't playing your matchup every possession. You know, back in the day.

played our matchup every possession. So you really had to bring it. Now, having the five-man switch out? No, I mean, yeah, that would be crazy. Like, what was, what, you get dirty on the doves? Huh? No, that's an easy 30. You get 30 on the dove. I just know, man, at six, seven. I was a student of the game, bro. It wasn't just about my athleticism and the style of, I studied so hard, bro, so I was going to figure it out, no doubt. Talk about the difference in, you know, like your mentality coming into the league, you know, as a rookie, a rookie sensation. Like, in that era, like, you had to be a dog. You know what I mean?

Like, talk about, you know, when you got there, like, what was your mentality knowing that, okay, you got Mike, you got Reggie Miller, you may have Ross Strickling. You know what I mean? It's a fight every night. What was that like? Yeah, it was kill or be killed, bro. That was my mentality. You got to go out there and kill or be killed. And those guys weren't sparing you back in the day.

Again, you had to play your matchup, and it wasn't much help. You're on the island by yourself. And I say, well, they have to be on the island with me by themselves, too. So at the end of the day, I was 6-7, I posted them up. I was like, I'm not going to play with these dudes. I'm going right to the block. I'm going around them. I'm jumping over them.

And for whatever deal, like back in the day, guards couldn't play post-D. I guess they weren't used to being posted. And I took guards to the post and just ate off that. And then obviously the floor game, you know, I had the floor game as well, but I wasn't about playing with people. I was about just getting the job done trying to get the dub. And I wasn't trying to be cute, fadeaways and all that shit, because I ain't really with that. I'm with getting it done. And back and then when I came in, it was kill and be killed.

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On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire, 168. hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash B-ball. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to report a trade. Orlando has traded the draft rights to Chris Weber,

Golden State, in exchange for the draft rights to Anthony Hardaway and three future first-round draft picks. All right, you were traded to the Orlando Magics for Chris Weber on draft night. One, how did you feel about the trade? But the biggest question, if you were not traded, you would have had a career at Golden State.

What do you think? Would have unfolded as a Golden State warrior? Yeah, first I'll talk about being traded for my man, C-Web. Shout out to C-Web. It was something that I auditioned for because I was doing the movie Blue Chips in LA with Shaq.

And I was with him every single day. And the blessing behind that movie is that we play real basketball. I don't think I took five shots the whole summer. I threw him to the ball every time like, Big fella, this is what I'm going to do for you the whole year. I was being smart about it because I wanted to be in Orlando. You know, and I went to work out for Orlando,

I skirmish with the team and took care of business. So I did really well there. And I kind of Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson were there. And I'm doing the same thing, getting them shots, giving them shots. And then whenever I had to kind of take over, I kind of took over, but really I wanted to let them know if I come here, you know, I'm going to be that guy to find y'all and get y'all the ball.

Now, the Golden State side of it with Nellie and Tim Hardaway would have been vicious as well because of being the bad quarter. Man, in Texas, too set. Tim Hardaway was unreal, bro. So we played one-on-one inside the arena with Nelly in the crowd watching me and Tim played one-on-one on my video. Wow. And I worked out for them.

And we played like five games. It was just knocked down and drag-out. So he said, I'm going to bring the goal. on in on you, and he gonna tell me if you can hoop with us or not. And Tim came. Now, Nelly put Tim on me. He was like, you got to go get him. Like, basically he brought Tim, like, I'm calling him up.

So we played one-on-one, and it was nobody in there, but me, Nellie and Tim. Oh. Straight one-on-one in front of Nelly. Nelly's sitting in the crowd just chilling, and me and Timmy are going at it. And I knew I had to go at him, but Tim, man, much respect to Tim. Oh, my gosh. Did you cook him? You know what?

I can't remember what the scores was, honestly. I got to ask Tim about that. But I know, hey, if we play five games, I ain't lose all five games. He was a murderer in the league at the time, too, man. Yes, you know. Man, that's just crazy, though. I think about, like, my draft process.

And, like, for you to say, my draft workout, I played against the team. Like, with all these rules and shit today, you can never do that. But that's, but, like, What better audition didn't see you get out. Exactly. What better audition did to see you get out there with the guys and play?

Like, it's crazy. They had their best defender on me. He was Anthony Bowie at the time. That's the guy that they put on Mitch Richie, MJ, all these guys, Reggie. He was cooking him. Yeah. That's my dog. That's my dog, said out to Bowie.

But he was in the machine. He was in the Washington. That's hilarious. So you entered the league in the East, obviously, going in with Shatt, and Michael Jordan is dominating the league. What comes to mind for you about that first matchup? Like, BD, his first matchup with you is in UCLA, J. Right?

Like, what was your first matchup with MJ? And what comes to mind for you from that matchup? Yeah, what was so crazy is he was retired at first. He came back, we're in the 45. That year, yeah. So we was the dudes in the league. So when MJ came back, I said, oh, okay. All right, I know what I got to do because at this point, this is my second year.

I'm ready. I'm rolling. And he came back and he came back with Avengers. But that first match that was I had to let him know right away because he was that dude. Come on now. He was the dude. So I was like, all right, I took him right to the post, did what I normally did. I was trying to put fear in him guarding me because I knew.

what he was going to try to do to me on the other end, so I was trying to hit first. That's amazing, man. That was a battle. I mean, you know what I mean? Mike coming back 45, like when you saw Mike in 45, was he like, oh, he ain't in the 23. You know what I mean? So I didn't recognize the 45. I knew who that was.

I was like he's going to be a little rusty early. But this is MJ to just be able to come back midseason, bro. That's crazy. He had 55 against the Nick. He had double nickels against the Knicks in the Guard. Second game, right? Right. So I'm like, dog, all right, cool.

So when he got into the building, it was 45, we was like, you know, it's MJ. But it's 45. But, man, we played them in the playoffs right after that. And, man, Nick Anderson stole his ball and we won the game off of steel. He came back the next game in the 23. I was like, oh. Oh, he switched. Oh, wow.

He switched his jersey. He said, I'm out of the 45 and work. When he took his jersey off, everybody saw 23, and he looked in the crowd. Uh-huh. That's crazy. That's legendary. He beat us that game.

Game two. To even have the NBA approved that, it's crazy in itself, man. There wasn't no rules like that. And that's MJ. He didn't care what David Stern, rest of the peace with saying, bro. He was like, I'm rocking this. Oh, my God. Like, y'all got all these rules today?

That's savage. None of that was going on back in the day, bro. Hey, that's savage. In mid-series, he changed his number. Let me give back. That's insane. Yeah, y'all wind up getting them now. They won game two, and we went to Chicago and won games three and four.

Yeah, y'all wind up getting them. That was an epic moment. You know what I mean? I felt like that kind of put you in a whole other stratosphere. Oh, no, it did. Big Mike is what they call them in Chicago. When you beat Big Mike, then you know you're doing something. Big Mike.

Big Mike. You play. you played against MJ, you played against Cole, and I think you played against Brown, right? I guess who? Brian, y'all played Bron and I played against Magic. Yep. Wow.

Yeah, yep. He came back for a couple games and then he went right back out. He didn't even stay. He came back during that season, so I got a chance to play against all those things, man. So tell me, like, those guys, a lot of people talk about those guys being in the goat conversation. How do you look at it? How do you look at that?

Like, what do you, if you say, ah, this guy's the best or that guy's the best, how do you look at the whole goal conversation? Because I view it differently, right? Because LeBron got the numbers. You got MJ who had this innate way of just hitting 50 whenever he wanted and was crazy with it and winning championships undefeated in finals.

And then you had Kobe who mimicked MJ, who had IQ, who had toughness, and who had shot-making ability and won championships himself. So I put them in those. categories. So LeBron is the numbers guy. He's got the numbers. Like, that's the guy. He's got to give him that. M.J. being a guy undefeated in the finals, I got it was, you know, first team all defense. I can't remember how many times. I mean, come on, man. That's, that's the goat. Yeah, for sure. And then Kobe being a fearless, fearless warrior and champion

who mimicked his game after MJ, it's like, you got to, you got to have all of them one-a, one-a-one, but in their own different, in their own different ways to me. And I'm not being political on that because LeBron is the power forward pretty much. You know, Kobe's two guard, MJ's two guard. But Kobe mimicked his game after MJ and Kobe did a hell of a job. Hell he did.

He did. He was a tall. Rest and peace of Kobe. It's crazy. Hell of a job carving copy and MJ. It's like that it's almost like you're trying to carve and copy the impossible.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And to actually do it. So yeah. Yeah. And to do it. So what Kobe had, what MJ had over Kobe,

was so different, or I should say Kobe's approach versus MJ's approach. MJ was like, I'm giving all y'all at 70. Like if I go to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, he did that 50, 50, 50, I don't know how, two or three times in his career. Think about going 50, 50, 50, 50, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas. What Kobe did when he had problems was, I'm marking Penny Hardway down on my list. I'm marking Barry Davis down on my list. I'm putting Gary Payton on my list.

I'm putting all these top dudes on my list, and I'm going to knock him off one by one. MJ never sees. I ain't doing nothing. of that. I'm just coming in and I'm killing y'all. So Kobe had to start off a little slower. Rookie year, he kind of struggled a little bit, beat in you're in L.A. And then he just, you knew he was coming, though. But he made this list of names, and boy, did he scratch off.

He scratched all the names off that list. And then, man, I want you to talk about, because to me, like, you see Magic Johnson and then the next iteration of somebody that's 6-8, 6-7 with dimes, offense, of talent, leadership, like the next version was Penny Hardaway. How much of it influenced it, like, magic have, you know what I mean? Who are some of the people that you pattern your game after, you know, coming up?

Yeah, it was strictly magic for me because how he approached the game. You're talking about a fierce competitor. Talking about somebody that was happy to make everybody else better. You talked about somebody that was going to win at all costs, champion, did whatever it took, played five. spots in the NBA. Who can say one guy played five spots like that throughout his career. And he was a PG, six nine PG. He wasn't the most athletic. He wasn't the most, the fastest dude. He was getting picked up 94 feet by guys. He understood IQ on how to get the ball into a position

when somebody bigger played him. He had all the shots. He developed a sky hook. He posted up. I mean, it was just ridiculous for him. So for me, it was magic all the way, man, just watching him. A lot of, and you just mentioned him, Tim Hardaway. the Texas two-step. But for us growing up, we called a Timmy, you know, the Twain Cross. Yeah.

That's the Timmy. Yes. Like for us growing up. Yeah. Andrew Wiggins does this move. I knew exactly where it came from the first time I did it when I seen it. And I was like, oh my God, he just hit him with the penny. How did you come up with that movement?

You was doing it from three, which I think is absolutely insane. Like, people don't. understand how far away the NBA three-point line is from the ramp. To have the strain to do that move from three is insane to me. Like, how did you come up with that move? And why do you think it is that more guys don't use it? Because you create so much separation with it. Yeah, I think for me, you know, shout out to Keith Askins,

who was one of the best defenders in the league. He was kind of overreactive. any little flinch I made, he went for it. So me, I'm studying them every game. I'm like, in that moment, because I only use that move. You'll never see any of that move ever in my career again. I was all about getting space and shifting you, right? So I knew if he was going to go for the half spin.

I had already planned it out in my head, and it just happened in the moment. I said, if I have spin this dude, he's going to be there because he was just that type of defender. And I'm just going to separate with a step back. And when I hit the half spin and saw him there, I just hop back. He didn't know I was going to do that. Obviously, I did. And when I did it and shot it, I was in such a rhythm, man. It was deep check time at that point.

Everything was going in. But that was one time I did that move, and I never tried it again because my mind just worked to try to shift you. And I knew what type of defender he was. And the reason why, to go to the second part of that question, guys don't do it anymore. Guys ain't playing D that hard in the league no more for them to actually have to try to do that.

You know, they're feeling. And you're a great defender, so you know what I mean by that. I'm not knocking. Absolutely. They're not playing D that hard to have to make you shift them like that. For sure. No, you only got a couple guys that's like really picking a guy up in their chest like that. Yeah.

That's hawking the guy. But then also, another thing is, though, you can't touch players today. Like, you impede any movement. But those, they call it a follow. But dudes ain't afraid to, like, dudes are afraid to get embarrassed. Right. That's true. It's more of, like, being afraid to get dropped.

or dunked on or in the highlights where it was more so like, I feel like, you know, your era and then a little bit of, and then my era was more so you're trying to get on sports center, right? Yeah. So, you know, I just feel like it's just a difference.

Like, dudes are nervous. Like, man, I ain't about to go hard on defense and then be sitting on the floor. You know what I mean? Nobody wants that. I look at the approach like Jay-Z said in his line, y'all respect the one who got shot. I respect the shooter.

Remember that first? I respect the defender that gets up. But if he gets dropped, he gets back up and come at you again, I respect that more so than a shot. 1,000 percent. So that's me, you know. When you look at the NBA, like you said, you've seen magic on to, I'm sure you still watch the NBA some today.

When you look at it, who do you have your top three guys as far as handle that came through the league? Oh, they came through the league? Paul Crawford is one of them for sure. Okay. And, Cross-Ope. Karee. Cross-over, Kyrie.

And, man, it's a lot of guys that had BD. had crazy handles, but he wasn't, he was freakish with it as well. But you're talking about guys that displayed it every move. B-D. was about blowing around you, but these guys are like, Kyrie, he'll hit you, beat you pull back, get you again pull back. But we're talking about them type of guys. You're all with the same thing.

So you're talking about, and then Steph has handles. He could do whatever he wants with that thing, too, man. And then to be able to get that out from three with that same handles. So right now, I can put step in that category because, man, he works at it, and he gets separation better than no other. He don't need, you know this, this much room. But the big guys with the handle to me were J.C. and, uh, and, uh, Kyrie.

Kyrie. And I'll put Stefan. Rod Strickland, too. I always put Rob. Oh, no. Oh, gee, right? Oh, don't even stop me with him, bro. That dude was ridiculous, bro.

He was ridiculous. He was the Kyrie before Tyree. I'm talking about just recently. But you're talking about handles? Yeah, Rod Strickland, was crazy with it, bro. Yeah, his handle was crazy. played against some greats, dude. I did.

I did. Go ahead, Jay. Kenny Anderson. Kenny Anderson. B.D. was just out about Kenny Anderson before you got. He was. He was.

He used to make me so mad in practice because he would be killing. And you know how he is. You're like, come on, yo. We're just playing ball, yo. Come on, BD, check up, yo. And I would be in practice, like, trying to file him.

You know what I mean? And he'd just be killing. I was like, I'm going to lose my spot. It is, dude. Yeah, no. Shout out to Kenny. Speaking of the grace, though, that one debate that comes up all the time is the 96th Olympic team was better than the 92 dream team.

Where do you stand as far as those teams go? Obviously, you were a part of the 96 team. But, you know, and seeing how those two teams went about. Yeah, no, all our idols are on 92, bro. We bound out to 92. You got to, bro. You got to show love and respect to 92. But we ain't bound out to nobody else, though.

Oh, okay. Whoa. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go through the match. Let's go through the match.

Let's go through the match. Come on. We can talk about that all day, right? Drake, go. What's the far? Hey, no, I'll be 100% honest. I want to flex my muscle a little bit. I got two of them things.

But I'll be 100. I'm always keeping real. I'm not a part of some of the greatest Olympic teams of all times. I got on my first Olympic team because of some guys didn't want to go because of the Zika virus in Brazil. So a lot of the guys ain't want to go. I'm like, oh, you're going to have to stay me with me. I'm going.

I'm going. So I'm not going to sit here and even act like one of my Olympic teams. could compete because I'm sitting here looking at this team list and no, I'm not going to do that. I'm always keeping real. No chance. We would have probably, we had a good team, like a really good team,

but I'm just not sure our team could compete with this team. So I'm not even going to do it. How do you think y'all match up with this past Olympic team though? Yeah, no, they were really good, you know? And it's just, to me, I mean, we had that, we had the big. You know what I mean?

We had all the big. We had dreams. Charles Barkley, Greenhill, Anthony Hardaway, David Roberts, and Scotty Pippin, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Carl Malone, John Stockton, Shaquille O'Neill, Gary Payne, Hakeem O'Neillajwin. I'm sorry, I can't make that. That's crazy. That's a hell of a team, bro.

That's crazy. That's crazy. And shout out the GP. GP is my dog. GP got closer during that Olympics in 96 because we was, we would go. Every time you went to Seattle, had a problem. You had to go to bed, though. Talking about GP, that dude was real. So we

never, listen. Everybody can debate their own Olympic team. Like Dre said, man, it was an honor to represent the country. Like you said, people didn't want to go. He went, come on, bro. That was a blessing. But ours was in the States, in Atlanta, which to me was even more special because my family could come. That's crazy. Even if it would have been out of the country, it would have been

cool. But just to represent the country, it was cool. That's amazing. Yeah, I want to ask you a couple of questions. And obviously, your Memphis team is playing. incredible. I appreciate it. When you get into like the game today and obviously when you first got into it,

had an issue with you and James Wiseman and past relationships and all this stuff. And now you look at the NIL. How in your view and being in it has that changed the college game as a whole? Yeah, the whole entire James Wiseman situation. was by the judge saw how I saw. You know, when we were retired from the NBA, bro, we go back and we do for our communities, right? Even when we're in the league.

And when I retired, I came home and I did for the community. I didn't do anything for James Wiseman on my high school team that I didn't do for anyone else over all the years from, you know, 93 all the way up. So that was my thing. And it just got Michigan screwed because of some hate and jealousy from some people. And they turned it into the NCAA, which became an investigation. And thank God that the judge saw it how it really was. But fast forward and until now,

Now, NIL has changed the whole demographics in a major way because now it's not just about the athletes getting paid. Some are getting paid millions. And it's like now there's no rules to the game. Like you don't get fine. Like in the league, you get fine if you show up late. I think that's what it's going to turn into because we need some guardrails on this thing because a player can get as much money as he wants, get all the time, get all the shots, get all he wants or whatever. and I'm speaking from what the coaches say around the country, but he can come to practice and go,

yo, I'm not feeling practice today. And you can't find them and go, well, we're fine to you because you're not practicing. They still get their money, you know, and, you know, it's a beautiful thing for these young men to get paid. But it also, it's being taken out of hand. It's getting a little out of hand, and we've just got to get some guardrails around.

Yeah, I was going to ask you, what is, you know, whatever gift there's a curse, you know what I mean? And so, you know, you kind of NIL is. sitting in this middle ground of it can be great for families and things like that. But there's also, you know, they are getting millions of dollars. You know, when we got millions of dollars, nobody gave us an instruction box how to manage a million dollars. Right, for sure.

And then, you know, being hard to manage. You know what I mean? And so, you know, I look at it is it's a fine balance of helping people become successful and then enabling people to become, you know, ultimate, ultimately, like, failures to themselves if they don't make it. It makes sense. Yeah, I think it gives them an excuse as well of not to work hard to get to the lead because they're making so much money.

They can physically retire and say, well, if I don't make the league, I got this to fall back on. So the hunger to me, and Dre knows this, and you know this, the hunger you got to have to make it, you know, and a lot of these young men, they just to understand, obviously the world has caught up and surpassed in some areas where they're being drafted. So American players, man, we got it even harder. So most guys are using the NIL for almost a backup plan. And it's helping families, which is a beautiful thing.

But it's not driving them for more. You know, it's not driving them to be like, okay, I got this NIL, but I still got to go play. I still want to make it to my dream. That's interesting. Because I felt like, you know, a part of one to make it. for me was the struggle, like not having food when I was in college. And I am totally on board with players getting paid because, you know, I think you create value in anything, you should make money. Like, that's just the world we live in.

And so I'm completely on board for that. But I do think NIL in a sense by the NCAA is a setup. And I think it's a setup because to me it felt like they were just like, all right, here you go. Let it blow up in your face. You know what I'm saying? Everything else, they want to put garral rails around and help guide it. But then the one thing that they finally give is like, hey, here's everything with nothing to follow,

know anything. And then, you know, there's an ugly side of it as well where you're starting to see these kids coming out and saying they didn't get paid the money they were supposed to get paid, you know, but yeah, again, who are you going to when that happens? Because there's no one government. It's just what it is. Yeah, I think that when it happened, a lot of coaches already had, you know, foreseen that this was going to happen.

What you're saying, like the NCAA just took their hands off and go, all right, go to work, you know, and we don't have anything to do with it, you know. That's just you guys. And I think they're going backwards to come back. forwards by now by saying, all right, we're going to do the guard rails because it's just, it's out of hand. And like you said, you should profit from things that you're associated with or using your name, image, and likeness.

I mean, it's just a part of it. But it's gotten to a point to where it's, like you said, some coaches aren't paying players or they're saying they're not being paid. We don't know. But they're saying that. And it's not incentive based. It's just basically like it's yours. If you're making a million dollars, you're going to get your entire million dollars.

and if you average seven points and three rebounds, you're still going to get your million dollars. Talk about, like, coaching in this era, because you started without the NIL, now in NIL. Just talk about, you know, coming up in the league, the coaches you had, and then, you know, coaching philosophy. How is that, you know, have you evolved, you know, I would say from a player coach, you know, now in this new NIO.

Yeah, I'm still the same, you know, because the way that I recruit these guys is we play out of concepts. We try to do everything Golden State does. Anybody in the league does that play out of concepts, man. We don't have like a set system. You know, there are systems, and I don't knock those coaches. Coaches to Ben and Coach Isso has a great system, you know, and they play, they just have to play tough, but it works. It's a system that's work for years. But for me, to stay in the know with the younger guys, for me, I just play out of concepts.

You know, you pay, give the ball to Draymond, and we're going into split screens. We're screening for each other. We're getting the ball. We're getting downhill. We're kicking it, making one more. And then on defense, we're locking in and packing the paint or just pack line defense. So for me, I think it works for those guys because they can see through our system, they can look at Golden State Play and go. Wow, look at how they play, and then watch our film.

But we can show the exact same things that we're doing in practice, the terminologies and everything that they're using. So I think that gives me an edge as well. I love that. When you first got into the college game, and this could be just me because I'm big of a fan I am. But when you first got into the college game and you're walking into these living rooms

as the Penny Hardaway. Was that to a benefit or to a detriment? Because I think the first thing that people would think is it's Penny. Of course people want to be around you Of course, but you also run into a lot of people that want to use that against you. You know, like they want to use your success, your success, your name against you. Like, did you find that to be helpful or hurtful?

It's two ways, though, Dre. The first way is the good way because the parents were fans of mine. Most of those parents, they love the game. They got a kid that can play ball. They're like, man, I watched you. You were my favorite player. And from that side, it was great. But then there's so many coaches that bond together.

there's a lot of haters. They go, don't go play there. It's not organized. It's all NBA stuff. And then I didn't only walk into the, to the room by myself. I walked in with Mike Miller. And then I walked in with Coach Larry Brown.

Then I'm going to walk in with Rashid Wallace. I mean, I had these guys on my staff. So look at what I'm walking with, right? So I'm walking in with these guys. They're like, I could you say no. But from the flip side of that, though, there comes a lot of hate because when we come from the league and I didn't quote-unquote pay my dues

and was an assistant coach for five, six, seven years, and then get the job. I just came right in. That makes a lot of people mad. So while these parents are oohing and eye and man, we love you, they've got 20 phone calls from someone going, don't go there, go here. Just don't go there.

So there's so many people hating for young men not to come to me because they know the success that I'm going to have and that they're going to have. 1,000 percent. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

That's it, though. Well, back to the Olympics. right? Because I always wanted to ask this. Right? You come off an Olympic goal, right? Summertime, celebrating the goal, and then Shaq leaves the magic

for the Lakers. Bro. Worst day in my life right there. I ain't going to lie. I knew the magnitude of that, bro. But here's the thing, though, that was so crazy. Shack never told me he was leaving. Ouch. Wow. You know how you get into the, Dre knows this. Like, all of the international media

was in our interview with the entire team. We're on a panel, and they're asking each one of us questions, and one guy goes, how does it feel not to have Shaq as a teammate? Wow. Grand Hill right here, Gary Payton, I was like,

looked at Charles Barkley. I'm looking like, if that happens, then that will be devastating. That's exactly what I said. And they was like, no, like, he's about to sign a multi-year deal with the Lakers. I was like, well, if that's the case,

And, you know, I wish him well. And then Shaq came to my room either that day or the next day, knocked on my door, bro, I was like, bro, I'm sorry. I should have told you. Bro, I was done. It killed me, bro. It killed me. But I'm going to tell you what happened.

All of like the entertainers in L.A. Jerry West, rest in peace, was so smart. He knew Shaq wanted to be in movies. He knew Shaq wanted to. He brought him to L.A. is beautiful. Even though Orlando is a family town, L.A. is different. Yes, yes. When Jack went there and they, man, they did everything,

they threw everything at him. He forgot my name. He was like, what about Penny? He was like, who? Oh, no, he's talking about COVID and Nick Van Nexel and Eddie Jones. Oh, yeah, I know them cats. But, yeah, no, I was happy for him,

but I knew what that meant to our franchise, bro. You can't lose that. You can't. No, no. But the thing that was so bad about that was the local media would always like poke the bear, meaning like Shaq can't shoot free throws will never win a championship.

The fans say Shaq doesn't deserve all the money he's getting because he can't make free throw. They were doing that to him. And I was like, what are y'all doing? Like, dude, come on, y'all crazy. And I think Shaq got a little bit of that in there along with going to L.A. But I didn't know, BD.

I was in the conference like, I didn't know. That's crazy. Wow. Damn, Shaq. But he came to the Lakers out. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's my dude, though, man. Man, that dude, I love that dude to death.

But he knew, he apologized a thousand times after that, like, if I had known now what I knew back then. But at the time, I felt like he made the right decision for his career, monetarily and for championships because he went to a team that was willing to. And Orlando was going to do exactly what we needed to do to go out and get pieces as well. But Lakers, Orlando, new franchise versus the history. But he could have stayed in. Orlando for two years because when he got to LA, it took him a while to get there.

Yep. So, you know, I always, and I love when he's saying like, damn, I should have stayed with Penny, got us one and then bounce. That would have been all right with me. Right. But, you know, it's like, you know, basketball has so many storylines and everybody's story is, you know, interweed with everybody else is just, you know, it's great to see like, you know, when things come full circle, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And for him, you know, the big up you to say, like, you're one of the greatest players he's ever play with, you know what I mean? And like you're getting your flowers now, especially. Yeah. You know, I know you're coaching. And so how them players are, you know what I mean? Yeah.

But like, they need to hear from us, like, how special and how important you are to us because you know, I appreciate it. You open the floodgates to like, oh, I can get out here and wiggle. Oh, basketball is entertainment, you know what I mean? But it's there's a style to this killer. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. That just, I mean, that motivated me.

That motivated the whole generation of people, man. So, you know, I just always look at like your storyline, even with the knee injuries, with my knee injuries. And I say, man, there's so many parallels. But to be able to like share that moment with you, you know what I mean? Like, for me, I know it was hard. But, you know, for you, like, just share a little bit about, you know, overcoming injuries, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. What would have been? Because I always think about that shit, too. Like, yeah, come on. You know, like, tell me what would have been, man? Like, yeah, it's crazy, man. Me healthy, I just, you know, I just know I could have did, like, way more damage. I wasn't a selfish player, but I just got it done, you know, at my way.

And I wanted to win. And I would have not having any injuries, it would have been. crazy. It definitely would have been crazy. And the same thing with you, bro, and the same thing with Dre. Dre didn't have the injuries we had. He's been, like you were just talking about people looking up to us. You know, back in the day, guys didn't really look up to defenders like that. But when Golden State was rolling and Dre was a huge part of it, I'm hearing guys in the gym going, I want to be Dreyman coach. I don't need to shoot. And he set a standard outside of defenders and guys that hustling and scrap. And then this year, the three-point shooting and just

working on his game and Conzi going, okay, I don't have to shoot threes. I'm still going to win, but now I'm going to show you all I can add something else to my game. So for all of us in our own way, touching lives, man, when people see Dre and see UBD and see me, they light up because they can identify success to us. They can identify hard work to us. They can identify being a great teammate, being somebody that respected the game and just wanted to ultimately win. And it didn't matter what it took. So for me, not being injured, man, I would have been the best teammate, I feel like I would have been one of the best winners because I would have did whatever it took to take the backseat to anybody that I played with to go and get

that wing, man. It wouldn't have been no ego with me. If we would have brought in younger players and I was in my prime wonder winner championship, you had no fuss out of me, bro. It would have just been, let's win and I wanted to win. And I hate that I didn't because watching the guys that have won, man, it's like watching them celebrate, bro. It just takes you back to be like, man, I just wish I had that moment.

I wish I had that moment all the time. I wish y'all had that moment too. Man. Over and over again. It's an incredible feeling. It's hard to put it into words. It's crazy, though, because when I did it the first time, it was like incredible.

And it was like, wow. And then, like, after like a couple weeks of living on this cloud, I kind of went through this little small depression and, like, fear of like, man. What if I'll never feel that feeling again? And then we did it when we did it again, what I've gotten every time since is that you get the most joy out of seeing the guys on the team that's now doing it for the first time.

Yeah, for sure. Because it can always take you back to that moment. I'm like, wow. Like I remember when I felt like that. Like not that I'm not happy, like it's the best feeling. But I know that that joy right. there is different, you know, because when you do it for that first time, it's nothing like it.

But, no, I'm sorry. Speaking of the first time, you remember the first time you play Penny? And I don't want to, don't get me to UCLA, Jim that we can't see. Do you remember the first time he played Penny? He had 24 points that game. I was coming off the bench for the Charlotte Hornets, I believe. and Penny was with the sons by then. Yeah, he was in the Phoenix Suns.

Yeah. Eddie Jones was the shooting guard. And, you know, Eddie was my dog, too. Oh, yeah. Eddie was my dog. And, yeah, this goes to show, like, you know, Penny came in there. It was you and Jay Keat. Yeah, no doubt.

That was, come on, dude. I don't even think I played in that game. Did I play? I play, like, they wouldn't let me in the mix, bro. That's so crazy. That's so crazy, no, BD. Talk about, I want to ask that question because as great as you are, we're coming out.

You had to sit to these veterans and you were like this young go to work and you just had to sit and wait your turn. Talk about how you understand how you did that. I don't know. I was just out. When I got in, I think I was so hyped up, I would make mistakes.

You know what I mean? And like, you know, our margin for error was very minimal. You know what I mean? And the way Paul's silent, this coach, like, you had this spot-up jumpers, going to post. And when I got to Charlotte, I was like, damn, like,

when I first got there, we was moving, you know, picking raw, I was showing what I can do. When they start putting them plays in, it was like, oh, we don't fast break down here. You know what I mean? Right. There was really no way to change the tempo. So I was like, damn, I'm not going to get a chance.

But I stayed in Charlotte after the season. And they said I couldn't shoot. So I worked on my shot. And then that's when I came back to LA, playing the real run. Drew, I just started, I started chasing every fade and every dude that had a good year. I was trying to pull up on them. I don't know. Celebrity game, all that.

And then that's, you know, it was almost like it was a good thing, but I still don't think it was. Because I felt like if I would have started, like I could have been a game changer. But, you know, back then, Penny, you know how there's a hierarchy. No, no doubt. You know what I mean? And sometimes you've got to have one game or two games where you start to break through that mode. And I never got to start my rookie year.

But that's your testimony, bro. But guess what you're still that dude? Yeah, yeah. When I came back, I started, you know, every game after that. David Wesley called me in the summer. He was like, hey, bro, just tell him don't trade me. I was like, bro, when I see you in training camp, bro, you better find a new position. I am not playing.

And he wound up playing to starting shooting guard for us. And David Wesley was tough. Penny, and just speaking on, you know, obviously you were with Orlando Magic, then you went to Phoenix. But again, I go back to the Orlando Magic Times. Shack Jersey just became the first Jersey to get retired in Orlando Magic history. Do you think you will and should get that call soon? Personally, before you speak, I think so.

I think so, man. But you know what was so crazy is T. Mac came behind me, and he wore number one too. So I think both number ones, but Grady and Hardaway need to be up in there. And I know you're talking about me because Mac is my dog. But I think that number one needs to go down Hardaway and Matt, and we need to do it on the same night because that's my dog.

I don't need it on my own. I mean, we need to do that. Because people make your own, bro. Y'all can get both number ones. But you definitely need your own night, man. You got way too many highlights. way too many accomplishments. Like, we got to have, you know what I mean?

Like, as far as, like, the ones, yeah. Yeah, you're one of the ones, man. You know, you, you, you, you, without barring any injuries, you're on that goat level. You know what I mean? No doubt. No doubt. I was on the way.

You was on your way. And there's always a debate, obviously, on, who's Mount Rushmore? I want to know, what is your Mount Rushmore look? like who are your four players? I go old school so much, so I'm having to read. I go old school so much, man, but it's so much greatness in today's game and that's played over the last 10 years.

But if I'm going old school, old school, it's Shaq, it's MJ, it's Kobe, and it's Ron. That's, that will be my list. If you want, that there will be the list besides, besides me if I'm going that route. It's just, you know, I have so much love for Steph. I have so much love for so many people, bro. It's just, it's crazy, man, because they talk about the best point guard. Is he a shooting guard? What are we talking about?

I'm just saying. What is he a point guard? That's what I'm saying. So when we talk about great point guards, bro, how can you leave the little? He's a, I remember saying a long time ago, that dude is an assassin, bro. He got the baby face with you. That dude is an assassin, man. What he's done to the game, you cannot leave him out of any conversation.

that's the fact he a point guard you know why step's a point guard and i think i think people asking you know you you have the whole theory of is the glass have has half empty is the glass half full yeah i think people asking is step for point guard or a shooting guard as a compliment to step because the reason they asked the question is because of how well he shoots the basketball yes and so you shoot the basketball so well that everyone wants to make him a shooting guard. But the reality is, a lot of his shots are off the dribble, number one.

Most shooting guards didn't shoot off the dribble. When you talk about prototypical shooting guards, most prototypical shooting guards was one or two bounces, get the day spotted pulling up, one or two bounces to the cup. That was a two guard. And so I think it's such a compliment to him when people say that because you shoot the ball that well.

But here's the thing. When you talk about why he's a point guard is if you've ever watched them, and I've seen all of them, I'm blessed to say that, the amount of coverages that he's seen and had to read, like quarterback's re-coverses, point guards read coverages. The amount of coverages that Steph has had to read, and being guarded. Brian has not seen.

Kobe has not seen. MJ has not seen. There is not a person in NBA history that has seen the amount of defenses and different type of coverages that Steph Curry has seen. And to navigate that, still average almost seven assists

per game on a career, plus his points. And to get, get those reads. So, for instance, step is averaging six and a half, six assists. I'm averaging seven and a half,

eight. I'm averaging those assists of him making a quick read and getting me the ball and then allowing me to do what I do. But the quarterback still had to hit me on the route, right? Yep, for sure. And that's why I say,

like, no question he's a point guard, but it's the ultimate compliment because you're so great at a thing that they want to make you that other thing. You know what? You know what it is. He's a point guard who scores the way a shooting guard was traditionally supposed to score.

Like point guards don't really, you know, like over the history of the league, put up 50s and 40s and things like that. So when you see somebody, like even you, Penny, like I asked you, are you a point guard? Of course. You know what I mean? When you play with Jason Kidd, you still a point guard. You're a combo guard.

And so now Steph has been called a hybrid guard. I say Penny Hardaway, point guard, point God. Steph Curry, point God. Because he just revolutionized the way we play. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like nobody in, you know, I've never seen somebody score shooting guard points at the point guard position night in and night out.

You know what I mean? I feel like Marbury was. maybe one of the most potent point guard scores. Iverson was a shooting guard. You know what I mean? And so, like, Steph is doing what Iverson is doing from the point guard position. And so it messes people's equilibrium up because that's not what you traditionally see. Yeah.

And it's like, it's like Dre said, Iverson saw man-to-man coverage. He saw double teams. But it's like he said, Steph has seen every coverage imaginable. but his IQ, along with Dre's IQ, and the way that Steve has the offense flowing, if we can give him that credit. Absolutely. That marries everything together in the perfect form

for how he plays the game. And then most of his shots are coming from him screening, him slipping a screen, him getting a dribble handoff, him throwing it and zooming it and chasing and getting a shot and being able to make those shots while making those decisions. Yeah, absolutely.

He's got more backdoor cuts in his career in the last two or three years that I've ever seen because now he's reading them over playing them. he's getting the back doors. And Dre's leading them before he moves, like throwing them open. So I'm watching all this like, man, it's unreal. He's been blessed to have Dre

because everybody couldn't have been in the position Dre is in. Throwing somebody open versus throwing somebody a pass. It's two totally different things. He has to see him open and see the vision of where that ball needs to bounce for step to just get into that ball and just lay that ball up.

So that's the beauty of the whole thing at Golden State that I marveled over, man. And I imagine myself planning that in that system with those two dudes, that would be stupid, bro. And you beat him. That's for her, baby. Let's go.

Come on, man. I come off the bench. I ain't tripping. Hey, bro. Hey, bro. I am not tripping. Let me come off the bench. You know what I mean?

Yes, sir. No, that's fire. You've been at Memphis since 2018. What would? Yeah. What? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, bet. I'll go there. Okay. Okay, bet. Okay, bet. I'll go there.

All right. So I'm a big fan of the current Orlando Magic Team. It's crazy because if you go back and date these podcasts, early, well, during the draft year of Paulo Ben-Caro, everybody was saying Jabari Smith, Jr. should be the number one pick. And I actually love Jabari Smith game, so this ain't a slight at all.

But I said on this podcast, I said, you everybody talking about Jabari Smith being a number one pick. To me, Paolo Ben Carroll is the number one pick. And they end up taking the intel from the Draymond Green Show and they did the right thing and they drafted Paolo. But, you know, they also did a great thing. They drafted Franz Wagner.

Yes. You just said, you know, if you were with us, you know, how that would have been? How would you have foreseen playing with those two young guns? They both would be all-stars this year if they were playing. Paulo's been hurt for a while and Fran, I don't know if his games is going to end up being enough

to ultimately make it, but how could you saw yourself fitting in with those young guys that you got over in Orlando right now? Yeah, no, first of all, shout out to Jamal Mosley, man. Orlando Magic, they did a great job on choosing him because he paid his dudes, bro, so I'm happy for him. It's not a phenomenal job with his staff of knowing who's who. He knew Paulo was that guy.

And for me to play in that system, And like I said, with Franz, he's hurt, he's injured as well. He might be out for weeks. So he's injured as well. But with those guys healthy, all I would have done is just fed off those guys. And whenever I needed to take over the game, I would. But I would let them know, hey, I got y'all back. And no matter what, let's go win.

And I would have been the ultimate teammate. That's just who I was. I just wanted to win. And you use that youth and that talent. And you just get with them in the gym. We would have gotten a gym a lot so that they could learn who I was and who they were. Then we would have watched film a lot just to try to get them to understand what the league was all about.

about and how they could get an advantage on being young guys against veteran guys or guys in the league already. And Paolo came in just destroying from the beginning anyway. So that's what I would have done, man. It would have been fun to play with that group. What do you think is next? Like, obviously they got to get healthy. And although I think they're having a great year, I don't quite think they're at that

contender level yet. What do you think needs to happen for that team? Obviously, those two guys are Staples, not going anywhere to be there for the next. next 10 years if they want to be. But what do you think that team needs to do in order to continue to take that next jump and take advantage of these young guys? Like, you want to take advantage of these guys while they own low salaries, because once the salaries get too big, you start having to pluck pieces.

Yeah. And Franz just got paid Paulo Will. Yeah. I think what you have to do is you got to get smart vets. The guys, like, back in the day was like a James Posey or Tony Allen or, or David West. David West, God, you know, like that,

that are true professionals that know how to win, that still have enough game that can get in the game and kind of help manage them, kind of help understand that I'm going to take the best forward in the game if I'm a forward.

You take the second level forward and watch how I do this. If I'm a guard that comes in, let me take the high level guard. You take that and just kind of teach them how to win. And I think that's the next level for Orlando. And it's beautiful.

A city as Orlando is made with all to offer, they don't get vets they want to go there. And I understand, but in another way I don't. because this team is up and coming, but they're going to need somebody that can get down there and kind of recruit vets in there. When I was in Orlando,

the Orlando Maddoch hired Dr. Jay, Julius Urban to come in. Yes, sir. To try to help recruit some vets in there, man, and Dr. Jay did a great job. So they need some guys that can get some bets in there to go. You can't go all young. They need some blue guys.

Yeah, they need some blue guys. I agree with that. I definitely agree with that. That's a problem around the league, a lot of places. People start getting rid of vets. because the tax, you know, penalties are so big and that $3 million that event will make as opposed to the million dollars

ends up costing $14 million as opposed to $2.5. And people start getting rid of vets, but I think the effect that it has on these organizations, like you can say that $14 million if you want to, and don't get me wrong, $14 million is a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of these teams, you can try to say that $14 million if you want to, But your young guys end up turning into guys that never learn how to do it on their own.

They have to then go get with somebody else because they didn't have a vet to show them how to do it. Right. So then they go get the game. And then it's like, oh, I got the game now. All right. But you kind of miss your window. You know what I'm saying? Like Steph is Steph because he was able to push through that window when he got the opportunity.

year five, you know, and like you start looking at guys who did it and pushed through their windows. They probably have some great vests around. Like, we had incredible vests. When I speak of stuff, we had, Bogit was great, you know, D. Lee, but we had Jared Jack come through there. We had Jermaine O'Neill come through there. We had Richard Jefferson come. Like, we had great vets come through there. Then David West came in, and even though we had won championships.

We were still young. would still get wild. D. West, Andre, coming to game. They settled the game down. Like, we needed that. Although we had won championship before, it was like, yeah, we know how to win and we got the skill.

But we needed those young, we come out there, me and stuff be fucking throwing it out of bounds. I throw it over here, and he's going that way. He didn't run the other way. Like, but, you know, to your point of passing them up, but sometimes that happens, you know?

And like, they come in and it's like, all right, now, here we go. You know, and these teams don't have that. And it's a problem. Yeah, that hurts me deeply, man, watching. I was at an Aces game this summer, and I was sitting next to John Wall. That just doesn't sit well with me, bro. I know what happened in Washington, bro, but this man can help a team just for that main reason.

Long as the veterans understand, when you come in there what it's all about, I think that he deserved. What if he was in Orlando to try to help out those young guards? I'm just saying, I'm just giving names, man. It's just to me, they're just not the veterans. It's a lot of guys. It's a lot of knowledge, man. And it's like, you need the knowledge, man. Yeah, when you got the knowledge, the story is relatable.

Sometimes you just can't relate to that young coach who just got out of college. It's just want to, you know, watch film and get rebounds for you. You need somebody that got stories or can watch the film and tell you what's coming or how you fit in or no, you ain't that. You are more like this. You know what I mean? And so having that insight, you kind of lose that, you know, with the vet. with not having a vet in the room. And so that young dude,

he don't develop. He wind up going to get training, get traded, get traded. And then it's, you know, luck at a jaw for some of these really young, talented kids to find that team at some point in stick. And, you know, it's just not having veterans who can identify if they're going to be good or not. You know what I mean? Like sometimes, hey, coach, chill out, man, he's going to be all right.

I got him. You know what I mean? And you need that personal care. and that's not being exemplified, I don't think, hardly any of these rosters, but that's the difference between, you know, the teams that want to win championships and develop young talent

than the teams that want to stay in the middle of time. Yeah, for sure. For sure. No doubt. You know, and we, uh, and just speaking of vets, obviously,

um, like you said, been at Memphis since 2018, team is a dream of your still to coach in the NBA at some point. Yeah, for sure. I definitely want to coach an NBA, man. I get my juices flowing when I sit in the arena.

When you gave me those seats, I'm just watching y'all going, man, I could, because I feel like I can help a lot of young guys, Dre, because I know the game. I played the game. They still respect my brand and who I am. I feel like my game is, my coaching is really built more for the NBA than college. I'm happy to be here because I'm home. It's come full circle.

I love my city. I love my school. but ultimately I've mentioned this before I want to be in the NBA I don't know where that's going to be but I want to help somebody win I want to help players get better I want to be a part of something

whether it's just starting or whether it's on the Cups with winning a championship I'm fine either way man because I'm a grinder so definitely want to coach an NBA I definitely want to see you in the league man I feel like your knowledge with the pros you know what I mean and just your insight with the pros

and you know even watching in Memphis, just your concepts. Like all of those are pro schemes, pro concepts, and you need professionals. You know what I mean? And so, man, if you can work with the talent, you know, professional, high-level talent and get into their psyche

and give them what you got, like, that's what the league needs. You know what I mean? And these coaches that have been there, coaches who have played, you know, and coaches who have paid their dues that's been around these young kids. Yeah.

Someone like you who got endless, amount of stories and you lived it. You know what I'm saying? You're like, you are really about this life. I would love to see that, you know, with top tier talent. You know what I mean? I just think it's about building a relationship with the guys. Because when I get there, because I'm going to be there,

it's just about building a relationship with the young studs, like Apollo and those guys, you know, and it's something that I enjoy, man. I'm a ball. I'm a gym rat. I'm a ball guy. I live in a gym. I love the gym. I told that to the Orlando Magic a couple years ago.

I am a gym rat, bro. I love it. Like a comminga. You know, those guys, man, it's just to watch film, to talk to them every day, to be a part of their lives. All these guys, they have the ability to go to that next level that a franchise is waiting on. I said this to a gym a couple years ago,

that's a good friend of mine. I was like, man, whenever I come, I'm coming hard because I'll be excited. It'll be like being a rookie to me all over again because I would be as coaching, but I'll bring so much to the table with those guys. So I'm from Saginaw, Michigan, and I've always heard stories about, I don't know, the history, but I know at one point, your agent was from Saginawish. Yeah, you're posting brothers.

Absolutely. And so I've always heard these stories about, and then I try to incorporate it with my own knowledge and my own experiences. I know in signing with Nike for most guys, Nike owns the logo that. then goes on your shoe. I was always told that you, through your agent, y'all came up with the idea of the one-cent logo and that you owned your own logo. And I want to say, is that true?

And if so, what was the idea behind that? Because that one-cent penny logo is legendary. I'm going to be very honest. Nike owns 1% more than me. They own the logo, but it's like I'm right there. So it's not like I own my own logo. I wish, and I was talking about this to my ages, some years ago, because MJ, the way he gets it done,

I was like, man, I should have tried to get my own logo and own El-low. But Nike's so smart, they've been a blessing of me, bro. You know how Nike is, man. It's the first class. First class all the way, still making my shoes. But I wish I own my own logo, but I own a lot of it, a large percentage of it. But it's just a marriage that to me that's just bitch, man,

because they put me on the map. you know, along with my game, and they pumped me out there, and they did what they had to do. So that, I wish your story was true. It's still, you know, I own a large majority. I don't own the entire logo. That's incredible. I love Nike, man.

I got to ask about Little Pity since we're on the one-sixth. Oh, would you not to go here? Little Penny was crazy, man. It was just, it was his advertising agency that worked for Nike called Widen and Kennedy. and man, they came up, Stacey Wall is the guy's name. They came up with the alter ego because I was just a silent assassin. And little Penny was, he was the shit-talker.

He was the guy who was on the pinny about to bust your ass tonight. He ain't going to say it, but I'm going to tell you. My man's about to bust you up. So that worked out, man. And to me it was comedy because it was Chris Rock. And I heard that they went after Martin Lawrence back in the day. I heard that they went after Damon Wayans, maybe even Will Smith, maybe, you know,

those guys, but when Chris Rock wasn't the Chris Rock at the time, he took it. I think it's not a better voice for that character, man, he took it to another level.

Oh, man. He made it feel like that was like your real homeboy. You know what I mean? Like, we felt like Lil Penny was like, hey, man, that got to be his partner.

He got to be made out for like one of your best friends. And like, hey, shut up, honey. Hey, be quiet. That character is, I mean,

utterly iconic. You know, me as a, you know, entertainer, a writer, a creator, man, I look at that little penny as a reference for, you know, a lot of things that, you know, I do creatively. But, I mean, as far as, like, the dynamic, that shit was crazy. Oh, man, they did a phenomenal job, bro. Phenomenal, man. The pool party, dog.

Oh, it was a Super Bowl party, the pool party, Tyra Banks, the whole deal. The Tyra Banks, that was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy, bro. Cut out to Nike, man. Phil Knight, my guy. That's legendary, man. Top five point guards ever. We like a good list.

Top five point guards ever. We'll write this one down. Bro. I'm starting with magic because that's my guy. I'm putting Steph in there for sure. It's tough for me, man. It's so many dudes. It gets tough.

I'm going to throw my boy GP in there because he played both sides of it. I'm going GP. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. You got to put Jay Kid in there Jay Kid

Jay Kid It gets tough man It get real tough And I got so many guys man Like Yeah You got CP You got John Stockton

You got Steve Nash Steve Nash You got I'm thinking about All the dream teams here Man I might

I might go Steph Magic Gary Payton Jason Keeley I know I'm in that five but I'm just saying my other person

I'll just say in me that's where I'm leaving Okay, done There you go That way we can leave it there But I'm not slighting anybody else Because I'm a huge fan of a lot of people bro All those guys stocking and all those guys But you gotta have someone that

You know you like more than other And those are my guys those guys that I named so And they were all legends They're all legends Yeah for sure 1,000% It's I mean the reality is those, it's hard to make a list, man.

It's the NBA. It's the greatest players ever. It's hard. It's never going to be easy to make a list. And someone's always going to be left off of somebody else's list. That's just the way it is. Yeah, because I know I'm off a lot of guys list. They're naming their guys.

So it is what it is. But I know they still respected my game. So it's all good. Last one, before we get out of here, what do you see for your Memphis basketball team achieving this year? you're off to an incredible start starting up conference play yeah what do you foresee for this group that you currently have yeah i got a special group of guys man obviously making the NCAA tournament is the number one thing and when you get into tournament you know that anything can

happen i'm the guy in my seventh year now i've gotten so much more wiser about how i see things i want to be the best team playing in march you know i've never really said that i've said i want to make the nca tournament we want to win a championship but i've learned to continue to grow every single day. And once you get in, you have as great a chance to beat anybody on any given night. So I give us a chance to get anybody on any given night when you have one day in between, you know. So for me, making the tournament, staying healthy, and then begin to growing every single day and being the best team in March, we can make some noise. Amazing.

O.G, we appreciate you, man. I appreciate y'all too, man. Appreciate you, man. Appreciate you, man. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. boys, man. Appreciate it. Love you, bro.

Love you, man. We've been so much. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. The volume.