The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green Show w/Baron Davis: Tim Hardaway Sr. on Heat suspending Jimmy Butler, LeBron vs. MJ & Top 5 Warriors | Draymond & Baron

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

NBA Hall of Famer Tim Hardaway Sr. joins Draymond Green and Baron Davis to share iconic stories, including the memorable dunk by Baron Davis that "embarrassed" Tim Hardaway, as well as the creation of the UTEP Two-Step. He reflects on the legendary Run TMC years in Golden State and what made them special (26:00), relives how he told the Miami Heat to draft Draymond Green (36:45) and provides insights into Jimmy Butler’s suspension and Heat Culture (47:00). Tim also discusses the toughest players to guard, shares his Top 5 Warriors (30:00), recounts untold stories about Don Nelson (1:03:00), ranks all-time point guards (1:10:00), and explains why high school LeBron James was simply unguardable during runs in Chicago (1:14:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #Herd   Follow The Draymond Green Show on social media:  https://www.instagram.com/draymondshow https://x.com/DraymondShow https://www.facebook.com/people/Draym... https://www.tiktok.com/@draymondgreen...See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show with my brother, my dog, BD. What's happening? What's up, my dog? Follow the show on all social media platform, Dremont Show,

so you don't miss the show's announcements. Today's guest, we got created one of the coldest moves in basketball, and I'll give it the nickname after, I'll let y'all know the nicknames that at least in my, Like, it has a nickname, but in my area where I grew up at, it has a specific nickname. So I'll get into the nickname after I announced this.

But this guy, he's a Hall of Famer, five-time NBA All-Star, five-time all-NBA member. Olympic gold medalist, his number 10 jersey is retired in Miami. he is famous for the U-TEP 2-step, which in my parts, we just call it the Timmy. You hit somebody with the Timmy. That's what it is. It ain't no U-Teth Two-Step.

You hit him with the Timmy. That's what we called it, father of NBA vet, Tim Hardaway, Jr., Chicago's on. No, another. D. Tim Hardaway, senior. What's happening in OG? Nothing much, man.

None much. You know, I always listen to y'all's show and listen to both of you guys. I always wanted to come on and just be a guest on here because y'all, y'all be staying the realest stuff. Y'all always real, you know, and y'all, you know, that's what people need to hear. People don't need to hear all this fabrication.

That's what I like about you guys, man. I've been wanting to come on here for a long time, and I'm glad I'm able to make it tonight. Man, we appreciate you, O.G., the legend. you know, I remember I got a chance to tell you I used to wear the Tim Hardaway's with the X I wore a size Tim but the shoes was like eight and a half and I bust them for two years

you know, the Utah Two Step just to me you was the dude that I patterned my game after you was the dude you was that dog that when I watched you play I was like oh yeah like this is this is the fabric I need to come to the game with, you know what I mean? And then even get a chance to play against you. You know what I mean?

Like, you brought that dog out of me. You know what I mean? And, you know, yeah. And in honor you, bro, I have officially cut my hair and went bald hair. Yes, sir. Oh, wow. Look, I'm getting back to the essence. You know what I mean?

Look, we've got. Yeah. Oh, we've gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw him about a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, he wasn't born a couple of weeks ago. He wasn't a ball a few days ago. This man is full ball trying to make a comeback.

Let me tell you a story about Barron. So Barron, it was Barron's first year with Charlotte Hornets. Yeah. And him and Wesley. What's name? David Weston. David Weston. I used to play with them on the game.

He said, he said, I was going at Baron, and David said, man, why are you going at my Ricky like this? I said, man, I'm going to tell you this. I probably got another maybe four or five more years left. He got another probably 13, 14 years. I'm going to give it to him why I got it. Because when it's at my time, he's definitely. going to embarrass me.

And that's what he did in that playoff series. He embarrassed me. I couldn't even stick him. I was slow-footed. And I was like, damn, is it that bad? Is it that bad? You know, when he went out, I was like, ooh, we. I was like, oh, man, you know.

Wow. I mean, but, you know, they was ready for them. They was ready for us. They was ready for us. Charlie Kane and bust our butt. That was my first playoff start, right? And, man, you got to think, all I've been doing since I got tape in a VCR and watch basketball, I've been watching you.

So, hey, Tim Hardaway. Well, you gave it to me. You gave it to me. Like I gave it to you your rookie. You gave it to me after that. Oh, my rookie year you killed me. I was so nervous because I knew you cross half court

you liked to point and run the floppy and pull up. So I was like, I'm not letting him get in no brain. I don't care if he lipping, none of this shit. I'm about to stick to this dude like glue. And that was my job.

I was like, man, I was so nervous, bro, because I was like, yo, this is my dude. And then you pop me with an elbow. And that just woke me up. I was like, okay, okay, this is real. Like, he don't like me. I got to get right. It was nothing personal.

It was just bit. Yeah, it was. That's all it was. It was just business. That's all it was. Yeah, it was. Man, we had our team awareness meeting today in Dirk. Manyfield was there.

Dirk. Dirk was asking me. Dirk said, what's wrong with the game today? And it's funny to hear you say he hit you with the elbow because I was telling Dirk, Dirk's like, what's wrong? Like what you got for me? I said, I'm going to tell you one of the things that is really wrong and it's really bad.

And so I told Dirk, I said, everybody complained about the league being soft and too many foul calls and all, et cetera. I said, Dirk, the problem is there's no hierarchy in the league anymore. I said, so, for instance, you hitting BD with the elbow, like, when Porzingis came into the league and different young guys like that when I was on my way up and then, like, and, you know, in my space as an all-star, I want to, like, show them guys and try to instill a little fear in those guys just because I was saying, I know, like, it's going to come a time where in a few years,

that dude going to be unstoppable. And if I can instill a little bit of fear in him now, that'll help me down the line. So that was always my mindset. And I told Dirk today, I said, Dirk, the problem is there's no hierarchy. No one has to earn anything in this league anymore. So you hitting BD with the elbow is what we all went through, right?

Somebody hit you with an elbow. And you hit BD with the elbow. No question. And BD hit somebody else with the elbow. You know what I'm saying? And you just. just got to deal with it, right? And so getting a call in the NBA,

if you was a rookie, you couldn't touch nobody. And so you had to play the cleanest defense ever, because if you touch somebody, but if you're even remotely close, they call in a foul on you. And by the way, if they touch you, good luck.

A referee would actually tell you at that time, like, what you did to get a file. They told me to get up. They told me to get up. They'll play. And so, in our league today, I told

Dirt, I said, Dirk, the problem is not everybody get calls. I said, so if you're a rookie and you drive and I file you, they're giving you that file. I said, and the problem with that is all of us, well, we had to go through

to get a file call or to be able to file, it was treacherous. And you had to go through the ringer to get that. Nowadays, I was telling them, I said, Dirt, there was a play in the Laker game. I was telling him about when Dog Connect called me to B and I called

him a P and I got attack, right? And I said, I said, dirt, the problem is in that game, I said to the referee, there was a 50-50 car and not actually had all ball. And he gave Dogan Connect a foul. And I said,

you know, if it's remotely close to 50-50, I get the benefit of the dog. He don't get the benefit. I said, not actually hit ball, but if you thought it was 50-50, I get the benefit of the doubt. He said, no, that ain't how it work. Now, it is how it work.

Like that. And you just ain't been here long enough to know it worked like that. And I said all of that to say, just to hear you say, yo, you hit me with that elbow. It woke me up. We can't do that anymore. And if people wonder what's wrong with the game, there's no hierarchy in this game. And I just want to hear y'all thoughts on that. Well, you know what?

You're absolutely right. When I was rookie, I stepped in front of Charles Bar. and Jake O'Donnell Not Jake O'Donnell I forget his name Earl Earl

I forget his name but he I stepped in front of Barclay and I just went like this and passed he traveled and he said following you Tim

and I said I went to him and Chris Mullen said Tim Tim come here said, come here. He said, hey, man, leave him alone.

Earl, Dale Garrison. Okay, Dale Garrison. Okay, Dale Garrison. He said, Tim, leave him alone. Leave him alone. He said, don't say nothing to him. I said, okay. And I just played the game, and I left it alone.

And like two or three games, you know, we was on a road trip. We had Darryl Garrison again and everything. Gerald Garrison said, I like you. I said, why? He said, because you listen. You listen to Chris. Some, some, some, some, some, um, rookies would be like, oh, no, this, and then,

and that. Yeah. So you listen to Chris. And I like you. And, um, but he said, I feel a pop, you though. I still will kick your ass out. But just, just understand that you, you listen to Chris. And I, and I, and you, you're a good guy.

You understand, you understand what's going on. And I say, yeah. I say, yeah, I'm a rookie. And I understand that I got to be in my place and I'm going to stay in my place. I love that, man. That's real. And referees, back then, referees, tell you that. They have personality.

That's what I was going to say. To me, the referees, like, you got the power, right? And so today's referees, they're just reping the game. So they just call it a lot of times what they see. They're not creating that energy and a flow, you know what I mean, to let people, you know, like certain games, you know, Tim, you go into certain games, you see certain refs. it's like, oh, they're going to let us play tonight.

You know what I mean? Certain dudes, they're going to have an early whistle. But, like, today is really like, oh, it's an inconsistent whistle because you're repping every play and you're not a part of the fabric of the game. So there's no drama, right? There's no drama because, you know, ain't no mistakes made. So, like, even when you watch in the game, it's like, it's hard to make a lot. lot of mistakes when the goal is to shoot three-pointers.

You know what I mean? And to shoot 43. So you can't really make no mistake or, you know, try to cross somebody up, get somebody on the ISO and mess up because you don't have to. You know what I mean? And the rest don't either. Go ahead. But I'm going to tell you this, too.

A lot of these young guys, they don't pay attention to the referees. They don't know the referees. they don't understand the referees. They think that the referees supposed to adjust to them. No, you got to adjust to the referees. You know, like you said, Ben, you know which referees

that don't call a quick whistle. Right. You know which referees don't like you. Yep. Yep. You know. You know what's the referee that don't like you and it's not going to call a foul for you

and you know, leave him a lot. No matter what he does, you got to leave him alone because it's not going to get no better for you. And these guys, I see these guys today as I'm watching the game, they just don't adjust to the referees that don't like them. And you can tell the ones that don't like them because they don't call nothing for them. And they're trying to steady go at him, steady go at them, steady go at them. The ref is like, I'm not calling nothing for you.

I'm not, somebody else may call it, but I'm not going to call it. And they steady going to him talking to him, he don't like you. Leave him alone. He's not going to call nothing for you You know, don't stove there Say hey, how you doing? How your family doing? If you see him out, don't buy him nothing

Just leave him alone because he don't like it. Yeah, he ain't messing with you. Like, you know what I mean? But it used to be a referee and tell you. Like, hey, leave me alone. I don't like you. You know what I mean? They will tell you that.

Hey, come over here and talk to me. I'm going to get you a tech. You're like, man, he ain't messing with it. Hey, you ain't his type of player. Joey Crawford used to be. Joey Crawford. Joey Crawford used to tell you that in the heartbeat. Don't come over here.

Don't come over here. Then you steady walk. Yo, you want to get kicked out? Hey, Jay. He don't even play. Hey, Joey Crawford kicked me out of playoff game for clapping, bro. Hey, the Dallas series, Jay, I got kicked out. I think it was like game two or game five.

And all I was doing was going, come on, guys. Hold on. And then he go, hey, stop clapping. I'm like, what you mean? Stop clapping. Man, come on, God. Man, he said,

boo, you're out of here. What? Yeah. No play. Yeah. No explanation. I love Joe. You're one of my favorite referees.

Yeah, he was one of my favorite referees that he did not play. Just let him call a game. Yeah. And it's going to even out. It's going to even out. If you just let him call a game. game, it's going to even out. But if you don't let him call the game, you want him?

Oh, we. And he takes it personal. And he takes it to the next game he sees. But I love him. I love him because I know. You know how to play. It was going to be a fair game. Yep.

It was going to be fair. And he was going to call it right. He was going to call what he saw. It wasn't going to be like no fan of calls. He going to call what he sees. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I like about him.

That's a fun. And if he don't see it, he'll tell you, I ain't see that. I'm not calling anything. I don't see it. Yeah, I didn't see it. My bad. I was looking at this. I was looking at that place.

My bad. But that's a, you know, that's a part of the game. That's a part of the education. You know, I just always felt like everybody played a role in, like, your basketball development. So the referee, the relationship, the not relationship, understanding the refs, your coach, and the opponent. You know what I mean?

And so I think a lot of times, you know, when you look at the young dudes and, like, not respecting the hierarchy is because they ain't got no research. They're coming in the game, like,

they're the first ones to do it. You know what I mean? And so that's the problem. Like, you ain't coming in the league, like, yo, I want to be in this league because so and so in this, you know what I mean? It's like,

And you don't have no vet. And you don't have no vet on the end of the bench. Like at least one or two vets. When we came in, we had one or two vets. They knew they could still play. But they was like, all right, if they were called upon, they're going there and play. But they was in there to mentor everybody else. Yo, man, Nelly don't like this.

Nellie like this. You know, this is how you're going to get him to love you, just go out there and play and do the right play and do the right thing and this and that and everything to work out. Just go out there and play your heart. It's nearly going to like this. You know, don't be hanging out. Don't have them to see you drinking a beer after the game,

nothing like that, especially as a rookie, you know, a rookie, you know, take your butt inside and be in your room and have a be in your room or something like that, you know. But don't be out here in a hallway, you know, in a restaurant or something having a beer and stuff like that. So he, you know, the vet to tell you exactly what needs to be done. And, you know, and you just got to hear. to it. NFL playoffs. We're talking about NFL playoffs. You bet we are. Get in on the action at

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I tell everybody all the time, when I first came to the Warriors, they would do this for years at Oracle. think they stopped doing it when we got over here. But for years at Oracle, they would do this, what's your favorite warrior moment? And all the fans, their favorite warrior moment, their favorite moment as a warrior,

memories as a warrior would be either, we believe, Baron Davis' Donk on Andre Carrot Lincoln or Ron TMC. And so, you know, for me coming here, like,

that's what everybody would, like, that's whatever. Everybody loved. That's what everybody talked about it. So that's all I were here about. For you, Run TMC, you Mitch, Mully, what was the best thing on and off to court

from those run TMC years that y'all had together? Comratery. Comratery, friendship, wanting to do better as a team, always coming out. an example. We was, we, Chris Mullin always set the bar. I mean, nobody could touch that bar. He came out, worked on this game, an hour before practice, an hour after practice,

in the wait room, hour before the game, he still got out there, ready to go, ready to play, 82 games. Everybody set their bar for that. You know, everybody was, you know what? When y'all was winning a championship, the team was together. We knew that we wasn't no better than nobody else on the team. We knew that we needed a team to win. So we all was a team and we treated each other like a team.

I got to get no preferential, you know, treatment. And Chris or Mitch did, we just came out there and played and we love playing. you know the first time i went to um got signed went there and signed Chris like what you want to do i said man i want to play man i haven't played in five days man i want to play i'm fainting the play we went and it was me chris mitch wasn't there rod higgins and some other guys man we played for three hours we just played for three hours and i was on chris team and i just wanted to get the feel of chris i just wanted to see where he liked the ball how he liked the ball running up down the

just passing him doing my thing and doing this and that. And that's how I got acclimated with Chris knowing how he won the ball way he won the ball and Mitch too. You know, you got to know what they wanted to add in the pocket, you know, lobs, post stuff,

all that type of stuff. And it's about communication. Like you all, communication, communication. A lot of these guys don't communicate with one another. That's why they're not as good as, you know, the champion, you know, the finally getting to the ship.

So you got to communicate to one another. And that's what we did, man. We just love playing with one another, man. And we love hanging out with each other, man. Go to the movies, you know, go eat dinner together, you know, hang out as a team together. It was all about team to us, man. And that's what made us, you know, real good with run TMC.

And with the community, man. Went out in the community and done stuff in the community, man. We love the community. We went here, went to schools, went to, the centers, we went to park. You know, somebody, Chris Mullen, you might be driving down the street, Chris Mullen outside playing ball.

That's the way it was, man, that's where it was. That's fine. But yeah, man, that's why we, we blobs them, and that's why we were so good with each other. No, we love running TMC. I always say,

you're out of pioneers also of like when hip-hop and the NBA, happened, you know, so a lot of shoutouts to run to him, Stee, but you, you know, you are one of my top five warriors of all time. I want to ask you the question, who, what is your top five, or who are your top five warriors of all time? Well, you know, Chris Mull and Mitch Richman, of course.

Yeah. You know, you know, it was a lot of guys that came through there. that played and left and, you know, after one or two years and went somewhere else and played well.

Yeah. You know, you, Sleepy Floyd. Oh, you know. Sleepy was cold. Yeah,

sleepy was cold, man. Of course, you know, Rick Berry. You know, of course, Rick Berry. Yeah, yeah. You got, you got a, man, come on, man.

If you don't pick him, Rick Berry up there. Oh man, Rick Berry was cold, man. Rick Berry was cold. A lot of people don't know Rick Berry.

Man, Rick Berry was a cold motherfucker. He was nasty with it too. He was nasty with it too, man. He could put their ball in the basket.

Just like Chris Muller, he could put their ball in the basket, man, you know? And that's what's that? That's four. And I got to give you know, you can say Wilk.

You could say my man, he passed away too. I forget to all the boy. Nate Thurman. Nate Thurman. Woo! He was serious. He was serious. You know what?

When Nate Thurman walked in a room, everybody was like, that was his presence. Yeah, they showed up. Al Addle. Al Adels, he walked in the room. Straighten up. That was his presence. You know, and he's like, you know, Al, ha, ha, ha, ha, you know, y'all, y'all stop it.

Man, you're a legend, man. You're a legend. You're a pioneer. You were the pioneer. God, Westrest, all these folks. Man, you know, is, I put in about eight of them. That's the five I would do, man. But, man, I mean, it was some cold people coming out of, out of the Warriors.

Yeah, Warriors birth, legends. Warriors, Berks, Legends, Barron, Legends. I'm just talking about my erring before my... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about now, you know, it's you, it's Baron, it's Clay, Draymond, and Curry, you know, and those guys, I mean, Richardson. Yeah, yeah, Jay Rich.

Come on, man, come on, man. I mean, it's a lot of trails, free will. You know, a lot of people that came through there, man, that was cold-blooded. That was cold-blooded. For sure. Now, that's a fact. That's a tough list, man.

I don't think people realize how deep the Warriors' history go back. I think a lot of people get caught, obviously. The Bay Area do, though. The Bay Area does. For sure. The base support that they own like no other. Best fans in the world. Like, absolutely.

The way the base support they all. The world. Next to the Dodger fans, though. Look at you. You could have left out where it was at. Nobody need that. Nobody need that here. Dodgers.

I'm not even a Cub fan. Cubs fan. Cubs. Go Yankees. You love that. Let's go. Yeah. Pull up.

Hold up. You not. You're not. You're not on it. Tiger, Detroit Tigers? No. He ain't even a Detroit Lions fan. He's a Cowboys fan.

A Cowboys, that's disgusting. You're not a Lions fan from here? No, I'm not. I like to see the Lions win, though. I definitely like to see the Lions win. And I root for the Lions, but I'm not a Lions fan. And I'll tell you why I'm not a Lions fan or a Tigers fan. Or a Tigers fan.

The reason being, I wasn't, they didn't invite him to the game when he was a kid. Check this out. Check this out. I wasn't a Detroit Pistons fan until I got really closer to Dumas. And then like naturally, like, come on, like this man taking us to games, like opening his house. It's all about taking you to game, bro. Yeah. No, I'm just saying, like, you take, well, for a kid from Saginaw, are you right?

I ain't had access to games like that. Right. Just showing us a life that I never even imagine was possible for me. You know what I'm saying? Like, you could not support that. But I'll tell you why I wasn't a fan of the Detroit teams growing up. It's because growing up playing basketball. Now, as I've grown older, I cheer for them.

Like, I'm from there. And so I'm always going to want to see them win. But just the way that I am to my core, growing up as a kid, I never would allow myself to rule for the Detroit teams because when we were growing up and playing AAU basketball, Saginaw Pride, we go to these tournaments and the kids from Detroit would treat us like,

like we might as well be from Louisiana. Like, if you're not from Detroit, like, they don't care about you being from the state of Michigan. You're not from Detroit. Get out of our face. You know what I'm saying? So for me, I have a lot of pride in Saginaw. and trying to put a city like that as a young kid thinking like,

man, I want to put this place on the map. And then they're treating you like, yo, you ain't from Detroit. Get out my face. And so I'm like, well, I'm not rooting for anything in Detroit because y'all don't treat us like that, but then I'm supposed to be like, oh, that's my hometown team. But you treat me like I'm an outcast and I might as well be from 10 bucks too.

And so as a kid and just having that crazy chip on my shoulder, at that time I was like forget everything Detroit like I don't care for Detroit at all because y'all treat us like that and you know but as I've grown older and just being away from home I'll always rep because you know everybody like I'm gonna rep to crib

over anything but just you know what I'm saying but the world know I'm from Sagina on now you know what I'm saying and so it is what it is but I had a a crazy chip towards anything Detroit just because of the way the people would treat us coming from a small city like Sagina.

So, Dr. I'm going to tell you a story. I'm going to tell your story. So I'm with the Miami Heat. I'm a scout for the Miami Heat. I come and see, you know, I was always at the Big Ten games, especially because of Tim and all that. I'll write you up.

I'm like, this is Miami Heat culture right here. I say Draymond Green is Miami he coached. We need to draft him. We need to draft him. Dude, he's going to come in. He knows how to play. He's going to play his role. He's going to play defense.

He don't give everybody confidence. This dude can play the game of basketball. Yeah. And Pat was like, I don't want him. I said, why? He never gave me a reason. So every time you came to my. Miami,

go to state war and y'all y'all beat us there me and Pat look at each other and he said

he said he said he looked at me he said you bet not say that you know he's not saying it loud you bet not he kept looking at me

I was like I told you so right right he'd be like I said I said we would have had him

and just his presence in the game and knowing the game. I'm not saying it would have been like this, but we could have won three in a row. I'm talking about with LeBron, D. Wade and Chris Bosch. I felt comfortable with you being on that team coming in and doing what you're supposed to do because you was the type of heat player.

that we should have that we need it. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know what's crazy? OG, as I is Miami was one of the teams that I thought would be really high on me

during the draft and, you know, I'm sliding in the draft. Yeah. And I was in that green room. I was in a green room. I was like, you know, it really baffled me

to see the Miami Heat draft Arnette Montry. because I'm like, draft Arnett Motry, like, this dude had all type of character red flags when we was coming out in the draft. And, you know, the upside of him as a player was insane. But he had all the type of character issue, red flags. And I'm like, they're going to draft this guy,

but they talk about all of the character stuff and how you got to be a high character guy to play in Miami and leave me sitting right here. And I would watch those teams. those Miami teams with Brian and be like, yeah, and D. Wade and and Bosch and be like, I would have fit

right in there. Like I could have brought exactly what that team needed. Yeah. Low salary because I was low, I would have been a low pick in the first round. Energy. I could have brought with that team needed. I agree. I felt that way. And to see Arnette Motry get drafted there

and have character issues, I was immediately like, oh, they're not about what they say they're about. They say they're about. They say they're about this character and that and Heat guys. They're not about what they say they about. Yeah. My mindset after when I didn't, when I saw who y'all drafted and didn't draft me, I was like, they're not about what they say they about.

What is feet culture? No, no, no, no, no, no, heat culture. I'm going to say this. I mean, we are about that. Heat culture is what you bring, Drake. You go out there, you practice. You don't, you don't, you understand what it's about. See, a lot of people, I love Pat because pays attention to detail,

get you ready to play, made you understood what you need to do, made you understood how to get better, all right. I came in there knowing that I can still play, knowing what I can do and everything. So both of us needed each other. He needed me to come and run his team. He needed a point guard to come in and run his team. the way it needs to be ran like he wanted to be ran.

That's the way I, that's how I came in, and that's what I did. Okay. You know, work ethic. Work ethic. Don't bitch about, you know this. Don't bitch about that. Just come in, do your job. And when it's time for you to play, come in and play.

And that's what he culture is. He culture is about team. He culture is about leaving all that bullshit out. And everybody in his plan for the heat. We're not playing for the name on that fucking back. We plan for the heat, and we know what we need to do, and we come in and doing it no matter what. And that's what heat culture is.

A lot of people want to do their own stuff, and that's not heat culture. You're not going to do your own shit. You're not going to do your old shit. You're going to do what you're supposed to do with the team. He never ravered. Nobody was special on that team. You knew who was the guy.

You knew who was this. You knew who was that. Everybody knew that. But it was about the team, and we always played as a team no matter what. So is that what's affected in the heat right now with Jimmy Butler? They're essentially saying that Jimmy wasn't being a part of heat culture anymore? Yeah, but that's pat-in fault to me.

All right, you let him fly on his own private jet different places. And he'll meet the team for shoot-around. you let that stuff get out of hand. You let Jimmy Buller come in and say this and that, you know, this and that. You let it get out of hand. And then when Jimmy Buller, now I'm going to tell you that. He deserves his money. He deserve his money.

Everybody deserved a month. All right. But you can't play 60% of the games and I'm in the playing game. and then we got to work just as hard to get to where we need to get to. I need to not be in a playing game. I need to be six. If he played 75, 73 playing. You're a four seed.

You're a four seed. Right. Easy. Easy. They're the fourth seed. They got a week off. They rested. But now they're in a playing game.

You know, now, you know, you know, enough was enough. Enough was enough. And I say this, Pat, you got to understand, Pat is in the driver's seat. Okay? We don't have to trade you. We don't have to trade you. And you still under contract. I understand you want to get traded, but you still got to go out there and not jeopardize games.

You shoot a one-legged shot in the corner. When have you seen Jimmy Bullets shoot a one-legged shot in the corner? Okay. Another thing. And you know, and you see him pass the ball when he's supposed to come off of kick and roll. He passed it to the defender. You know, it was just, and I say this. And I should have worded it differently.

People think that Pat sent in a 10-page letter or film. I'm saying that if you want to question what Pat did and suspended him, Pat has a 10-page letter or a 10-page whatever. he gonna have and film to send to you and show you what he's talking about and why he's suspending him. Okay? And

you go from there. Pat is always ready. Pat is always ready. That's why he didn't do nothing with that dame little trait. I'm not giving up, bam. I'm not giving up hero. I am not giving them young boys up. No matter what. Okay?

It got a benefit. it got to benefit the heat. And that's what they don't understand. If it don't benefit the heat, Pat is not going to do it. And Jimmy needs to just go out there and play. And his agent need to just be cool. And everybody needs to just go out there and play.

And if you want to trade, it will happen. But you got to go out there and obey your contract because you still under contract. That's what I say. he's playing tonight. Jimmy is back playing tonight. Yeah, he's back playing tonight. So say he do go out there and play.

And he go out there and play well. He looked like Jimmy that was taking the Miami Heat to the NBA finals. Is there a possibility that they could mend this or is it over? What Jimmy said to Pat in his face, he wants to get traded. He wants to get out of there. I think it's over. I don't think there's no patching up because he told him in his face. faith what he wants.

He wants to be traded. But Pat is like, I don't want Bradleyville. He came, they came out and said, I don't want Bradley Bill. I don't want to take on that contract, you know? So he's going to have to find something that benefits

him in the Miami Heat. And him and Mickey are on the same page. Now, if it gets out of hand, then they can sit him down and say, look, just stay at home. we'll pay you and I don't believe me personally I don't believe he's going to opt out of

$52 million. I don't know. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of bread. A lot of dough. I triple dog dare you to opt out of $52 million.

That's a lot of dough. That's a lot of dough. You know, and the problem is if you opt out of the $52, it's hard for another team to just come and outright pay you $52 million.

They got to have a max a super max slot. It's hard to find that, man. People don't be understanding these rules. Just because... That a collective bargaining. You know what I'm saying? Exactly.

Like, it's hard for a team to just come and be like, oh, yeah, we're going to give you $40 million. Like, it'd be hard to create that type of cap space, especially with this new second April. I don't think people understand that. It's tough. Even with the trade, like, everybody's saying like, yo, you know, he's going to get traded. It's like...

He's hard. hard to trade. It's hard to trade a guy that make $52 million a year. Like, you've got to give up. For instance, if you look at our roster, say you want to

trade, um, say you want to trade for Jimmy with the least, with the least amount of players that you could on our roster. That's for. That means either you got to trade Jimmy

straight up for stuff. Yep. Or you have to trade Jimmy for me and wigs. And it's like, right? So I don't think you're going to do that. So then now you start looking at, you got to trade like five guys to match that money.

One guy. Exactly. Then you start getting into, well, you need a third team because now you've got a clear roster. It's hard to trade. And then also another thing is, people don't understand in this league

when you start talking trades. It's great players don't get traded. Right. right like that just don't happen like great players in their prine you don't get traded you know that yeah i mean it's gonna be difficult man it's gonna be difficult difficult i it you know i like i said i wish everybody get their money wish everybody get their money and be happy but it's gonna be hard it's going to be hard well it's hard it's hard to find the team that needs you to get over the hump

don't have the cap space. That's it. So if they were to make a move for you, then they got to debunk everything that they build up towards to fit you in the puzzle. And so I don't see it happening either. I mean, I love to see him get his money. But, you know, it's a good thing.

Miami got a good squad, right? Them and Pat, they ain't going to really see eye to eye. Some don't have to go, but, you know, he's going to have to play his way back into who he is to get his value back, first and foremost. And you let your teammates down, man. You let your teammates down, man. Right. Your teammates, they need you. They want you.

They want you to play. They want you to be there. There's been a lot of disgruntled people that was upset with management. a lie Michael George, but he made it work. Yeah. You know? He made it work, you know? It's plain assistant.

You know, but you just... Kobe was upset with management in L.A.? Yeah, Kobe. He made it work. He made it work. You know, so, yeah, I mean, I mean, you can make it work. It's up to Jimmy. I still think it can work, man.

I still think it can work if, you know, your team, the team, I think, you know, hero, bam and those guys have to come to Jimmy and be like, yo Jimmy, man, we need you, man. Just come out here and just play and let the chips fall where they're going to fall. Because if you do what you say you capable of doing and if you play...

You got a chance. You got a chance. You know, I'm going to tell you this. Boston is scared of Jimmy. They don't want to see Jimmy play. They scared of him. They don't like that. to see Jimmy coming.

Milwaukee is scared of Jimmy. That's the fact I don't like to see him coming either. See Jimmy coming. I watch the games all the time. He'd be out there abusing folks. Yeah.

They scared of his defense. They scared of his offense. They scare him making plays. They just scared of him. So, I mean, if he plays and if he right, everything is cool with them. Yeah.

And you got a young hero that's healthy now. That's healthy. That's looking at itself. He's a balling. Yeah, he's balling right now. He could be an all-star this year. Yeah. You know?

It could be. So, I mean, they got some pieces and they, you know, they eight, nine. And if Jimmy comes in place, they go, if they win six in a row, they write there five, four. Yeah. Easy. And that's exactly where you want to be. Before, I want to, we want to talk to you. just about being an NBA father.

But before we do, just speaking of the heat years, I'm sorry to do this. But do you remember when BD dunked on you? Yeah, everybody gets dumped on. I tell everybody. Everybody gets dunked on you. I remember that.

Shot blockers get dunked on. Not point cars. Shot blockers get dunked on. I went forward. I thought I could get it. You know, I thought I could jump a little bit higher. You know, you, you know, you're in the game. Hey, baby, you're in the game.

You know, you're doing this phone. You know? Hey, hey. Yeah, yeah. My father, O.J. No, it happens, man. It happened. You know, it happened.

You know, that was the elbow. He remembered the elbow. He got you back. He walked away like, I was going to get any black for that elbow. How are you slipping? You didn't catch me slipping. You didn't catch me slipping. I thought I could get it.

You know, hey. My leaps wasn't as high as yours. Oh, I'm crying. I happen to the best of them, man. I got some bad ones, too. I got some real bad one. James Hartman dunked on me so bad. I pushed them down now.

I tell everybody. Everybody going to get dunked on. Everybody going to shoot an air ball. Everybody going to shoot a brick. Everybody going to turn a ball over. And that's basketball. Everybody going to get shook. Everybody's going to get shook.

That's a fine. The thing is people nowadays are afraid of that. So you don't have, you know, moments where it's, you know, a change in other guards, right? To that hierarchy. Like, damn, this dude has been bullying me. We ain't got past the playoffs because I got to overcome J.Mond and whatever he think he got psychologically against me.

That's always been the thanking order and the pedigree of the NBA. And nowadays, guys are running away from the real fate. Like, you don't see superstars challenging each other, right? They guard the other dude on the team, right? So they're running from the charge. You know, they're coming in and take a charge seven foot. I used to hate when big dudes take charges. I used to cuss big dudes out.

Yeah. She's taking a charge for. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm going to tell you a guy that don't get a lot of recognition that was a bad motherfucker. Kevin John. Oh, my gosh.

All right. Me and Kevin Johnson, we played against each other. I guarantee you neither one of us got a full night's sleep. Because we knew what was going to go down. down the next day. Mm-hmm. We was going to go out there and we stuck each other. I'm not, you switch off on Dan.

No, I'm getting over picks. I'm staying in front of him. Yeah. I'm going to try to stay, I'm going to try to stay in front of him. All right. I'm going to try not to get crossed over, you know, left and right. I'm trying not to get dumped on. Right.

Because he will dumps on you. You know, I know he couldn't make three. You know, he started making threes at the end of his career and stuff like that. But I'm going to tell you this, man, that was a bad motherfucker. that was a bad motherfucker A lot of people don't know

how bad Kevin Johnson was that motherfucker man he was he was fucking Terry Payton yeah Gary Payton

shit we used to go at each other shit Rod Strickland don't get enough credit yeah man we

Terry Porter yes some motherfuck some motherfuck yeah some dogs Yeah, some dogs. Straight dogs, man.

A lot of people don't understand that, and we had to come with it every night, every fucking night. Yeah. You know, now you probably take day off while, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm just going, it's going to be a cruise here. It's going to be a cruise. Yeah, shit. Not in the West, not back then.

Right. Yeah, right. Every night it was. The only night off was really like the Clippers. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm not going to do that to my man, Mar Jack. No, my, Mark was there. Mark was there when I was with the warrior, so he was there. Okay.

You know. Okay. They was competitive. They was competitive. It just nobody was there. Yeah, nobody was there. They had no crowd to get them over there. Over the eggs. No.

No, no. They did. And they were playing that you. USC. They're saying to you stuff. I'm going to tell you stuff. I'm going to tell you stuff. USC back then,

their car was so bad, man. So you had to, you only have to have a slip knot. You had to have a wet towel. Yeah, a wet towel. So you get some grip on there.

Every time I want you to run past and get they, on their foot on a wet towel, so they can get some grip. And nothing, you know how you, like now, if you pass the ball, Boston, Celtics, and watch them Wizards back then

a wizard wizard but when you throw the ball and you know if you throw it a bounce pass that motherfucker skid like rock so you got to know how to bounce fast and I'm going to tell you this

I played in the Boston Guard the first I was really playing in Boston Guard so Nellie said yo dribble the ball we used to go to you know what it was bad by it from Boston Guard just dribble the ball, dribble the ball. And it was a dead spot right up under the rim. It was like two or three dead spots, right up under the rim.

And D. Brown was sticking me. And he followed me right to that fucking dead spot. And I was dribbling the ball. And the ball stayed down. I thought I was still dribbling. And he was laying a ball up. Melly called a timeout. And he said, didn't we go over that this morning?

I said, yeah. I said, but I wasn't. He said, why wouldn't you? you think he was following you right there. I told you that that's why we was dribbling the ball so you know the dead spot. Yeah. I said, okay, my bad. He said, I'm tired of him.

My fucking bad. And I say, okay, what you want me to say? I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to do it no more. And I didn't do it anymore. But Nelly was mad because, you know, he played with balls with one championship. And he had all this people there and all this and all that. He cussed me out so bad when I hit that dead spot.

I was like, wow. I won't go that. I won't go that way no more. And Nellie was spontaneous, man. He'd be your best friend, man. Then he cuss you out. And you know, Nellie was always trying to change the rules. That's why the rules are changed now.

You know, the rules, I'm going to tell you why the rules are changed. Nellie knew Dirkner-Winsky couldn't stick nobody. So he got the rules changed so they could play. on. If you think about it, if you think about it, he always tried to get the rules. Hey, he left.

We used to practice how to finesse the rules. The out of bounds play, where you could have two dudes out of bounds on the sideline. Oh, yeah. He finessed every rule that we could to get our advantage. Every day, we went over there. We used to go over it. Y'all think we could do this?

I don't know, let's try. Let's try it. Let's try it one time. Yeah, let's try it one time. We go over that and shoot around. We tried it and shoot around. And, you know, he said, you know what? We're going to try that.

After the time out, we're going to try it. And teams will be like, what are y'all doing? What are y'all doing? Nellie do finesse. Nellie de finesse. Nellie de finesse. Hey, Jay, he'll be able to walk by the dude in front of, like, you're taking the ball out of bounds, and I'll be walking towards you, and I act like somebody pushed me out of bounds.

Nellie, I like to go to, Nellie said, every time you go to the basket, just yell. They give you a call. And I was like, I'm from Chicago. I don't yell. We just go to the basket. We take the hit, you know. And that's why I got to yelling and stuff. Oh, wow.

Wow. Oh, that shit works. That works. Yeah, it really had all the trees. Speaking to all the guys you was just talking about, you got to, we had Penny on. Penny gave a top five point guard, a top, penny gave a top five, yeah, point guard list.

You got, you got your top five PG list? Man, shoot. I'm going to tell you this, man. it's hard to just pick five guys. You know, I'm going to tell you this, the person that just, a guy that just passed away yesterday that nobody knows about. The wizard.

The wizard. The wizard. Man, I'm going to tell you this. One man fast break. Hey, one man fast break. You talk about Dennis Johnson. You're talking about Nate the skate archieball. It's a lot of motherfuckshops out here, man.

I mean, that could really hoop, man. But, you know, grew up watching this guy and Isaiah Thomas. We're watching them pattering in my game after him. Isaiah Thomas, that's number one. You know, I'm going to say this. What is Alan Irish? Was he a two? Was he a one?

He was a two. Two. Right. See, that's the thing, you know. You know, that's the thing. So do we rate him as a point guard? Do we rate him as a off guard? Two.

You know, yeah, he's a two. Okay. So, you know, definitely, I, there magic. No question. No question. Right.

Right. That, that motherfucker, God, damn. God, the shit that he used to do and all, it was ridiculous

that six, nine. Right, right. Who else is? Myself. Yeah. All right. Absolutely. Okay.

Steph, no question. step. Yeah. That's four? That's four. And I'm going to say this. Was the Wayne Wade or one or two? Two.

He came in as the one now. He came in as a point for sure. He came in as a one for sure. Yes, he did. But he, like, after that, too. Okay. Who else? Got four.

Oh, things. Doctor. You know, I got to go with my man, Naked Escape. Yeah. I got to go with. I like that. I got to go with skate.

Skate was, man, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,

to, to, lead to lead and scoring, and assing, and a six in a row, it's crazy.

It's crazy. Skate, man. You spoke about being from Chicago. We all heard about the, the Chicago runs. I,

I had the opportunity to go to a couple of them in my day, which is, after the heyday of him but Brian recently was talking the other day about getting on the court with MJ being there

and he was guardable and I know you were there I was there so I want to know what he really as unguaritable as he say he was the other day in the clip that he was talking about being unguaritable in that pickup game you're talking about Mike unguarable

no was Brian as unguarable as he's Brian said he was unguarded that day he got out there. Yes. Yes. I was listening to Maverick. He was talking about LeBron

being there. We wanted to see what he had and what he could do. He didn't do it all the time because he had broke his wrist and it was like it was like a week after his

he took the cast off. He came. in. He was playing and he came down on a fast break and we thought he was going to pass. The motherfucker took off from a free throw line. He just took off. He missed.

He missed. But the motherfucker just said, ooh! I mean, just like that. We thought he was going to pass. It was a three on two. We thought he was going to pass. And it was like in slow motion, the motherfucker just took off. And I was like, damn. And he just missed.

And the ball took out of his hand. He missed. But I said, you know, that's incredible. That's incredible. I mean, for a 16, 17-year-old kid to come in and do some shit like that. And he was making shots, playing defense, passing the ball. You could feel his presence. Yeah. You could feel his presence.

You knew that he was going to be that motherfucker in the NBA. Yeah. You knew that. Wow. That's incredible. Wow. So for everybody out there who say Brian be lying about all these stories he told, you just one to OG.

And you know the OG right here, he ain't whole nobody knows. No, no, nobody's going to keep it 2000. Yeah. He's going to keep it real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was real. He was real that 16, 17, that thing was 17, 18, whatever. He was real.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about, you know, Isaiah, being your favorite player, where you got a clip where you hit them

with the U-TEP two-step. I need to know, one, that moment, but also the origination of the U-TEP two-step. How did that come about?

Well, it came about because everybody would be like, you know, we had gang in Chicago. And I didn't like going out because that's when people

started shooting up places. and backyards and all that type of stuff and games. You know, my folks following you in cars and, you know, all this type. It was crazy. It was wild.

So I'm still in high school. And so I just used to work on my game. I had an unfinished basement downstairs. We didn't have computers. We had three channels on the TV. Yeah, we had three channels on the TV. And it got stalled. So I used to go downstairs and I had two beans.

And I just used to work on. Behind them, bad dribbles, spin moves, in and out moves, cross over playing like I'm, it was like an eight foot, um, um, ceiling. I used to make layups coming down, doing some stuff and just, just working on my game downstairs for about an hour. And it was snow, you know, it's cold outside. You didn't go outside either. So I'm just out there working on.

like just working on ball hand. So that's what my ball handling came in. And I used to go outside during the summer and play against the guys outside. And we used to have this, on the sidewalk, it was like if you could steal a ball from a person, it was like four,

four people. And I used to go between four and five people and this guy off. And if you go on the grass, that's out of the bottom. It's out of the ball up. Yeah. Yeah, it's out of the ball up. I used to control motherfuckers, push motherfuckers off, and just do all

that type of stuff. I used to go back and forth for about three or four times. And then I'd, like, I get a stole just so, you know, game gone and shit like that. So you have some friends. Yeah, I have some friends that I could, you know, work on my shit. Yeah, yeah. Got calling test dummies. Right.

Yeah. If you want to do with that. Yeah. Yeah. So I went to go to Isaiah. My coach took me out. I was in sixth grade. No, seventh grade.

Coach took me out at school. He said, we went to the amphitheater. He said, I want you to check out number 11. I said, I, ooh, say, Joe, so I'm checking him out. Like, wow, that motherfucker cold and my mind and stuff. He said, what you think? I said, he's cold bloody. He's nice.

And he said, you play like him. I said, get the fuck out of it. I said, oh, you know what? My bad. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I said, my bad, I'm sorry. No, I don't play like him.

He said, he said, he said, I'm going to tell you something. You play just like him. You got the confidence like him. You control the team like him. You make shots like him. You do all the things that he's doing right now. Just and seventh grade. And at that particular time, when he told me that I started watching Isaiah

pattern in my game. When he went to Indiana, I steady watched him, steady watched him. and this patterned in my game after he came back for Summer League watched him. I knew they schedule, knew when he was going to play. I'm there an hour ahead of time. I'm in the front row watching him play.

You know? And so he kept in touch with me. Somebody told him about me and we was at a high school summer league game and we're playing and they said yeah, we got a surprise to y'all. Whoever make the final four, you know,

the teams, come in and we got a special guest player. And somebody told me, and I told my team, I said, I don't know what y'all going to do. But I'm going to be here every game. And I'm making the final four. I'm making the final four. And Isaiah came and then talked. And after he talked, everybody's like, you know, everybody's about to Lee.

He said, hey, Tim Hardaway, let me talk to you. He wants to talk to me. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He talked to me, said, yeah, somebody told me that you've been pantering your game after me. I've been checking you out. I've been keeping tabs on you and stuff like that. And I was just blown away. He just said, keep doing what you're doing, go to school, get your education.

You know, I don't know if you're going to make it or nothing like that. But he said, just use basketball, get your education. But you're playing well, man, and keep up good work and keep your confidence and keep playing. said okay and and so we came to Detroit

my rookie year he came to pick me up at the hotel and went to his house had pre-game meal and on a

drive back to the hotel I'm like hi I'm going to tell this man I appreciate you taking me to your house

and feed me but I'm still going to bust your ass really and so before I got it out

he said Now, you know because, you know, you know, took you out for free game meals to the house and everything and talk to you. I hope you don't take it easy. I was like, you know what? I was going, I was going to, I've been trying to figure out how I was going to take it. Yeah, I'm not going to take it easy. He said, that's what I want to hear.

And we played, we've beat him here too in Detroit. And, yeah, man, I always wanted to play against him, man. And it's like the highlight of your whole career when you play against your item. Yes, that dude. That's how I was, bro. Man, man, it is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was one those moments. It was one of those moments.

Yeah. Absolutely. It was become rivals. Man, we can't thank you enough. O.G., that was incredible just hearing the stories. Bob. You always welcome on here. here. You ever need somewhere to pop your shit?

You can always come here. Tell the truth. I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. I love being y'all. Y'all keep it as real as it. I love hearing y'all, watching y'all. And both of y'all, both of y'all, they need to listen to you all more.

You know, people be like, yeah, Draymond, he needs to be quiet, this and that, blah, blah, this and that. But I'm like, he's telling the truth, though. Yeah. I hate that. I said, Barron tell the truth. I mean, what,

what, I don't understand. Y'all, I want people to tell the truth, but y'all mad that they tell them the truth. Yeah. I don't understand.

Yeah. I don't understand that. But, but y'all keep doing what y'all doing, man, and yeah, and keep, inspiring,

inspiring these kids. They, they only listen to me so much. Dre, they listen to you because you out there doing it. Barron, they listen to you because you just remove

and so they can relate to you. And plus you got an AAU team and you're out there doing your thing with. So y'all keep inspiring these kids, man. And I tell these kids, with the NIL money now, what is the rush going to the NBA? Yeah. Any one. No, get all you can.

Why don't you work on your game to perfection? So when you come in, you don't have to play in the G-Leat. Yep, exactly. You come in, you could be ready right away. Yep, exactly. You know, listen to a lot of these kids don't want to listen to their college coach. No. Listen to college coach.

That's what we did. We listened to our coaches. We respect our coaches. We listen to our coaches. That's why we made. That's why it was easy for us. Yes. Because we listened and we understood what they were saying.

They think that you hate knowing. on me. It's criticism. You don't like me and this and that. That's why they transfer. Stay there, take adversity, looking in the eye, and say you're going to get better. That's what y'all doing with these kids today. That I can mean y'all say.

Appreciate you. It's amazing. Much love. Thank you. I love you. Much love. And don't let Baron Davis tell you about two weeks ago.

Oh, man. Hey, it's coming out on tape. They did it as dirty in the commercial. Oh, did they? You saw it already? No, I can just imagine. Louis Brickett. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Drake. Drake. It wasn't nice. It wasn't nice. It wasn't cool. It wasn't cool.

Yes, sir. We appreciate you, O.G. I'll be looking for that. That's a lot of. Yes, sir. See y'all at All-Star. Yes, sir. They're healthy, Drake.

Yes, sir. Thank you. I appreciate it. I see you at All-Star. No doubt. The volume.