The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Draymond Green w/Baron Davis - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Takeover & Pacers NBA Finals Collapse w/ guest Mo Williams

Episode Date: June 14, 2025

NBA Champion Mo Williams joins Draymond Green to break down the stunning Game 4 comeback in the NBA Finals, how OKC adjusted late to steal the win, and why Indiana let a championship-level moment slip away. Mo shares insight on Shea Gilgeous-Alexander’s evolving superstar game, how mismatches and coaching decisions defined the series, and why Rick Carlisle is outcoaching Mark Daigneault. The conversation also dives deep into the real challenges of building a winning program at an HBCU, from NIL limitations to brutal scheduling demands—and how more support could change everything. Plus, Mo reflects on the 2016 Cavs title run, mentoring Draymond through the original Grind Week, and the wildest team celebration story you’ve never heard. A must-watch for any true hoops fan. 3:18 How OKC Was Able To Comeback And Win  13:15 Breaking How SGA Got The Advantage in The 4th Quarter  19:33 OKC Change Their Lineup AGAIN 26:38 Why Indiana Has to Get Pascal Siakam The Ball In The Quarter  32:13 Most Important Headline For Game 5 For OKC & Pacers 36:20 Remembering Kyrie and Lebron's 41-point Game 5 41:23 Flip Saunders Story 47:23 How Hard It Is To Coach An HBCU Division I Basketball Team 1:07:58 What Defines an NBA Superstar 1:15:36 Crazy Allen Iverson Story 1:21:35 Playing with LeBron James #Volume #Herd #TheHerdFollow The Draymond Green Show on social media: https://www.instagram.com/draymondshow https://x.com/DraymondShow https://www.facebook.com/people/Draymond-Green-Show/61556083929818 https://www.tiktok.com/@draymondgreenshow Learn more about The Volume: https://www.thevolume.com Watch new episodes of ‘Sports Gone Wrong’, Wednesdays at 9PM ET – only on VICE TV. Find your channel here: https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/channel-finderSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis. B.D. is not here today. But we have a guest today, NBA champion. And so every year, I do this. I won't necessarily say I do this, but we put it together at Michigan State where we do grind week. And all the pros come back.

We hoop. We work out with the guys. We kick it. Like the next generation of guys. the guys that's on the team now, we do this whole thing. And I actually got that whole idea, the whole premise, forget the idea, the exact thing of what it is, I got it from our next guess. When I was first, second year in league, brought me down to Dallas.

He didn't play in Dallas at the time, but lived in Dallas, brought me down to Dallas, literally pay for flights, pay for hotels, showed us a great time. It kind of took me under his wing, and I've been forever grateful ever since this next guest. Now, I will go on and say, unfortunately, this man beat me in the 2016 finals. But if we were going to losing somebody in the 2016 finals,

it's my guy and an OG in this, been doing it for a long time. One of the grace to do it. None of the other. I'm happy to have this guest. None of the other. Mo Gotti. Mo Williams.

What's happening? Man, I appreciate them kind words, man. I'm forever grateful for your friendship. Always have. Always will be proud of you, man. I'm proud of you. I feel like an OG because you're an OG-O-G now. You came in.

You know, it's all love. Absolutely. bro, I still, like I just said, I go down to Michigan State. And, you know, Travis used to come down with me. And, like, we created Grind Week at Michigan State. Like, people don't know. Like, ground week, that, like, that belonged to Mo Williams. Like, you taught me that and, like, bring your class down there to work out to who.

It'll love. Over to your crib, barbecue. I had never seen a crib like that. Like, outside. of Joe Dumas crib. I had never seen a crib like that. And so I just want you to know, man, I'm forever grateful.

I hope you can appreciate that I took your idea and continued to move it forward. No doubt about it, man. That was huge for me in my career. No doubt about it, man. I appreciate it. Man, it was some good time. We had some good work. And that's the thing about it, man. People don't know. It wasn't, we weren't just hanging out, man.

We were working. We were working. We were grinding, man, we was getting better. You know, we was getting back in shape. You know, it was one of the more. That's what Grand League was about. It was about that moment where we needed to get back to work. So we came in, push each other, working out all day. And then we hung out at night.

You know, with fellowship, man. It was all love. It was perfect, bro. I appreciate it. I can't thank you enough. But obviously, as we know, a game for the finals just ended. Yeah. He tied it up two-two.

I got OKC. You can ask everybody at Ryan, I had OKC from day one. From day one. I had them. I said, listen, man, I'm both tough. I figured,

I figured before this series started, that it wouldn't go more than five, but Indiana snucked that snuck game one. They didn't suppose to win game one. No chance. They didn't supposed to win and they lost it. Exactly.

You know, and then they came and, you know, took care of business game two, then game three, Indiana came and took They gave them confidence. They gave them confidence. But this game right here, Drey, this, this was the game. And Indiana tricked this one all the way off.

They did. All the way off. They did. You know, it's crazy. So I put on, I put on my threads account at one point during the game. Like, this was during the third quarter, actually. OKC doesn't look like a team that believe. Like, like, final.

Like, they did not believe they can win. When I was watching, what it looked like to me was, you're watching a boxing match. We watching whoever, you call it, Bud Crawford versus, why am I drawing a blank right now, versus Earl Spence. When I went to that fight and I was there live in person, when they went into that fight in the first couple rounds, or the first round, it looked like Bud trying to figure it out, didn't really know what they expect. And obviously we know Earl got crazy power.

Like Earl has lived on, like his power is crazy. And you could see that in the fight. And then all of a sudden, Earl caught Bud with his best shot. And Bub was like this. And from that point on, but press forward because he knew you already caught me with the best shot you can catch me with

and it didn't even daze me it didn't stun me. Like it didn't stun me. So for the rest of the fight I can just press forward because even if you catch me with your best shot again, I can just walk through it.

It ain't going to fall back. Yeah. And for the first three quarters of that matchup, OKC looked like that where Indiana is just kind of doing whatever they wanted to do when they wanted.

It was, It's the page, Ray. It's the pace. I'm telling you, Indiana have a unbelievable pace. OKC was trying to play at their same pace. They can't play like that because it doesn't benefit Shay. He needs to play at his pace. It ain't slow.

It ain't fair. It's his pace. He need to have a flow more than a pace. It just needs to have a flow so he can get it, get in this spots, slow it down, and get to his elbows. But Indiana get that bitch out so quick. and they're gone, getting it up, up the court. Now, the other thing, OKC, they're in a lot of ISO situation.

Now, Indiana, you watch Indiana, they got a lot of action. That's a lot of movement. They're creating a lot of movement. Okay, see, defense is really good when Indiana gets stagnant. And they're able to load up. They're able to get in them gaps. They ain't able to get them gaps when they got all that movement and getting the ball up fad.

But what happened was late in the four quarter when every basketball game in America, could slow down, it benefits Shail. Now it goes into that guy, their guy, and that's when that guy came to work. So long as Indiana can keep that pace up, they had their advantage. But when the game's slow down, they're in trouble. Absolutely. By the way, I'm in Cabo, so for y'all, it's like, yo, he's sweating or he looked crazy. The sun's crazy.

And I am sweating. I'm watching the games outside. Having me a couple of drinks. You talk about it. You're hot. Yeah. Outside. You be inside in the act conditioning, man.

No, no, I watch the game outside, man, at the bar. You got to watch the game over here at the bar. More you got to come. Check it out, man. You go down. I'm going to come out there, man. I'm going to come out there. Get a little, get some dates and see what's going on.

I'm just telling you, come on down here, check it out. It's a good time, man. So I watch it at the bar, you know. So when I come in here sweating, I heard some of y'all saying crazy things last episode. Like, yeah, why is he sweating? So I'm telling y'all why I'm sweating. But I actually watched the game with PG. Me and PG was down there watching the game.

And when it was 87 to 80 or 89 to 87, one of those scrolls. 89, 82. And I said, either take the lead to 15 or it's going to zero. Really? What you saw that made you feel like that? Both teams was just hanging around. It was a passion, yeah, they were gone. So what I saw was Indiana really dominating them.

They got them mentally, they got them physically, dominating them. But you look up, you up seven at the end of the third. Now, you should be up 13 at the end of the third, but let a couple of plays here and there get away. you let the J. Dub get to join at the end of the quarter, right? Like, those things change a game at this level. Regular season, even first round of the playoffs, you can get away with those things, but this is the NBA finals.

And those types of things change this. So right now, y'all are really dominating this game, but you only up seven points. And I think at that time, She got like 20 points. Mm-hmm. In 20 points or something like that. you have to push that lead at that time. OB Topp is the one hitting the threes, right?

Like, Obie Toppins hitting the shots. It ain't even Pascal or Tyree's hitting the shot. So you got your other guys hitting the shots at that time. You got to extend the lead at that time. And so for me, if you leave the game, and while I'm watching that and why I said that, if you lead a game within striking distance like that, then what is going to come down to at the end is who got the game slow down you know what I'm saying

who got the best score and we obviously all know who got the best score in this series and they allowed them to let it become their game if you push it to 13 push it to 15 they can't slow the game down exactly how to go go go and that's what it will will tell you I need to go because we ain't got that much time we down 13 we down 15 it's the fourth quarter of I got to go. We can't slow. You're absolutely right. If we down seven with nine minutes to go, you're like, there's plenty of time left one, one possession at a time.

Yes, sir. Let me get this thing at his elbow, top of the key, space it out. Let me get to the line, get to this free throw line jumper off in the cash is all day long. And the game's slow, man, the last four to five minutes. And it just slowed down. They just run in action, get him into his ISO, get him into his face. They stay home. He went to work.

that was the difference down the stretch. But Indiana, you think about the little stuff that they messed up on the free throws, obviously. Two-bone head-ass files. Yeah. The old thing, being in the finals, you understand every single possession matters. And I ain't just saying every single possession matters

like some of them you ain't got to worry about. I'm talking about every single possession, every single substitution, every single mistake that you make, how you make it, it means something to the bottom line. And down the stretch, they made every mistake possible to get their game away. 1,000 percent.

I agree with that wholeheartedly. You look at there's, so I thought for a majority of the game and the majority of the series, to be honest, Rick Carlisle has our coach, Mark Dagnall. But down of doubt. outcoach him, no questions asked. Like, when you look at, there were certain points in that game where J. Dub come down, I think it was like seven and a half minutes left.

And Chet Lee, the game limping, J. Dub come down. This actually started with J. Dub in the third quarter. Three minutes to go in the third quarter, three and a half minutes to go in third quarter. You take tough shots, right? Like, yeah. To the free throw line. I'm behind the back. Yeah, NL one.

No, but at that point, they were, it was like a 10-point game, and they couldn't get good shots at that point. And that was a time where you saw Mark Dagnall needed to take a, like, not take a time out because it is what it is, but you need to call something. You know what I'm saying? You don't have your best player on the floor. You need to call something.

And they had like three, four possessions in the room. row. And that's where Indiana needed to put the game away. And they didn't capitalize. They did not put the game away. So in turn, it ended up like being bad shot for bad shot, bad shot for bad shot. And the leads just kind of stayed away. Yeah, Nimhart missed a

big shot too. Yes, he did. Yes. That was a huge shot. That was a huge shot. Yep. He did. You know, and so I'm watching this and it's inevitable what's about to happen. But I'm going to tell. you something that I thought down the stretch that I noticed. And if I'm, if I'm the patience, I'm going to watch this film, and this is what I noticed. A, they took Shea off the ball. We all know

that. That's clear as they took Shea off the ball. They got J. Dub handling the ball more. But down the stretch, what did they go to? They went to a Shay, J-Dubb pick and roll. switch. Now you got knee-smith on Shea as opposed to Nimhar on Shea, and they kept switching it, and he just threw it to Shea. And now She got Knee-Smith on him. And if you watch the beginning, for anyone who watched the beginning of this series, She got what he wanted on knee-smith. I think he was a very good defender. For instance, he guarded Jay LeBrunsen better than anybody. But it's match-up to match-up when it comes to this point in the playoffs. The guy who, who guards one guy the best may not be the same guy to guard that guy the best in the next series.

And so what we've seen is Nimhard is the guy to guard Shea in this series. Every possession down the stretch, they went to the one-two pick and roll, get the switch. She got Nimhart, She got knee-smith on him now, and She goes to work and gets to all the buckets that he was getting to. And so as a guard defender, as just as a guard, as a coach, someone with pride or champion, at what point does the player, Nimhard just say, oh, I see they trying to get that switch. I ain't switching. I'm going to make him, if J. Dub want to shoot a pick and pop three. Yeah.

Different three than a catch and shoot three. Yeah. He ain't used to shooting pick and pop three. Like at what point do we expect the player to be like, yeah, I'm not switching. I'm getting through this. It is what it is because I think down the stretch, that's what cost them the game. And you know what's crazy? We go back to little stuff, everything, losing, all the little shit loses games.

Look at game three. Go look at their defense possession. Day one switching nothing. They weren't switching nothing. Game three, they didn't switch nothing. They got through everything. And they got beat at times because of that. They was able to get.

That's why it was such a high score in first half because they were staying with their matchups, getting through everything. Oh, Turner was in that short little drop. Then there's short drop. I call it short drop. He's right going on that short drop. And he's trying to stun a little bit,

get back in front of you a little bit late. That's when they was turning their corner and they was reading it. But they stuck with it. They stuck with game three. Yeah. Because it kept the pay. going. It kept OKC down here, make a miss. We're out anyway. So the game is going to be back

and forth. But tonight, they was in a lot of switches when they went in Switches game three. Exactly. And I think, I think OKC took full advantage of that. Like, so, so now when I'm going ahead in this series, I'm saying no matter how much we get hurt and not only am I saying that but also I'm matching Nim Har's minutes with Shea. The only time you get a break is when he come off the floor. And the rest of the

game, you're getting through every screen, you're fighting through everything. We get into them because, again, to your point, Moe, even if Shee turned the corner and he got a little advantage, but Nimhar is fighting through it. If he don't have a crazy advantage,

he's going to stop. Exactly. It's at his pace. You know, he want to get it at. And at his pace, Nimhard has shown that he can guard him at his pace. He's confident. He know him. Absolutely. They play on the Canadian national team. You know they're playing ones when they encamp. He knows all these things. And she respects him. Absolutely. He's not going to him. That's the problem. Say got too much respect for him. Yes. Yeah. So, so as a score,

Or say them hard don't, because I don't do this, this ain't my career, this is your career. If them hard, don't switch it. What happens next? If you shake,

you've been in that position. He got to get downhill. He got, and he got to get down here, and he got to get it in advance every single time. And he got to be ready to step because at some point he got to fight through it.

That may be over and under. If he armed, you got to have that trigger ready. if you knock a couple of screens down when you got space. I mean, shots down behind the screen where you got space. Now he's getting over the top every time and ain't switching. Now you got him on your hill. Now you got an advantage.

Now you get into the line more. Now, he didn't start getting to the line to it down the stretch when they were trying to keep the fucking game close. Yeah. You get what I'm saying. So that's the only time he started getting to the line. But throughout the game, he wasn't getting to the line like that because he wasn't really getting them on their hill. Everything was kind of getting to the elbow, kind of getting

his feet set, trying to get some separation, trying to get that pull-up off. And if I'm Indiana, I'm forcing them into that two, that mid-range pull-up at the free throw line, because he's willing to get there if you get it to him every time. Yeah. You know, if he's making, he making, he don't, he don't. It's still a two, and you can get it out real quick and go. Now he ain't getting into the line. So he gets to that line, and you start letting him get an angle, and he started to get an angle, you're unable to get them long, stretchy layups and them floaters. And now when he get those,

oh, yeah, he's going to knock a couple of threes down. And then if he get that three level going, you want to keep them at two levels. And you want majority of them to be at the second level. And I know they're trying to do that, but they really just playing off how he, how he's playing and how the defense said, wherever angle he's coming from.

But if they just falling on them into that mid-range, he's going to accept that every time. when you look at when you look at um what's happening with the lineups right you got a team that won 68 game yeah i ain't understand no with jay they came into the NBA finals and chain one i can't i can't i still can't believe that man you know what it is man you know that's when a coach just you know they just cocky you know they just you know feel like they you know what you're being i I am him. You know, it's this, that's their case.

Because if you, we can't understand why. We can sit there. Why would we do that? I can see Indiana doing that. As they should, you won 68 games. We know what this looked like. And we as players and obviously I'm a coach now, I would never adjust to the change.

In the minute I see, when I go into the locker room and we get our starters to come here from the poll team, 10 minutes before the game, and I get on that board, Coach Brangin'en in, all right, who they got starting. Is it who what we think? Then they come back and say, no, coach, they start and such. And they're trying to match up does. I don't want the game because that's what we do best.

I don't want the game. So by doing that, now you get more cocky. You felt like, well, that wasn't the reason we lost the game. Run it back. You know? did it again. Then obviously you have to gain three, you want to switch it back.

You know, so I don't know, man. You know, so, you know, what's your thoughts home then? I thought, number one, you never show your hand before you need to show your hand. That should have been an adjustment. That's an adjustment. When you're going into the series,

we're going with what has worked for us this whole time. If we get in game one, I'm not sure I'm adjusting to game one but if it's so bad and it's glaringly noticeable then yes I'll make the adjustment but for instance okay C

like they should have won game one they won game one they just trick it off but when I when I take a step back and I'm going into these series you never they showed their adjustment before the series restarted. Yeah.

And when you've been in these situations and you know how this go, in 2015, when we won our first championship, the deaf lineup was already born. We knew our small lineup was our best lineup.

We didn't start the series when our deaf lineup started with Andre Iguadala in the start lineup. We started the series. Starting our lineup, we happened. starting. We got the 2-1, down to 1.

They made the call. We started now, Dre. We're going with our deaf lineup to start. That's our first time in the NBA finals. That's also Steve Kerr's first time coaching the NBA Finals. It's also his first year ever as a coach. But

Steve's played and won five championships. Seeing Greg Popovich. He's seen Phil Jackson, make these adjustments when the adjustment need to be made, not starting the series. And so we're going into the series.

We're playing with, all right, boom, that ain't working. It's saying, boom, we got our adjustment. But to show your adjustment, like, there's no adjustment for OKC. Like, the adjustments they're making now is like, all right, we want to get Shay off the ball a little bit more. Although I think that didn't work either. Like if Indiana closed the game, when they should close the game and extend the league how they should,

that don't work either, right? Like, the adjustment is usually a matchup or lineup. Yeah. They already took that away. So if you know they've made their adjustment, what can they do now? Like, all right, so yes, they won game for, and okay, she's the best team,

so they should win the series, but they should. What? You've already made your Trump. And then I don't think we give it well that we're giving call out enough credit right now. Oh no, Carlisle crush you. I want I wanted to say credit more so respect. You get what I'm saying?

Just more so on like here far as coaching, he's a he's a he's a he's a legend. Yes, he you get what I mean? So when I when I'm talking about OKC Indiana right now, talent wise, team, team-wise, what they've done from a season standpoint, absolutely. But now we're talking about adjustment on top of adjustment, you know, how we're approaching the next game, how you even communicate with your team, getting them ready when we're talking about staff, putting all that together, not saying who's better, but what I'm talking about who been doing it longer.

You get what I'm saying? Just imagine Drea, year three and Dreya, year 12, and eight, Dreya, year four. grade year 40, whatever. It's a different level of mindset, even though Dre was good at year three. Yes. You get what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, I think

that it's almost like, you know, you're going to be all right, young fella. You should be back here soon or you may be back here another day, but, you know, let the grown folks handle this type of shit what's going on, how I feel. How are he coaching?

You know what I mean? So I just think Indiana from that standpoint has a chance. You know, look, OKC clearly the better team. 1,000 percent. And I've had, I've had, I know this thing is this, because I've had a coach, and he's a very prominent coach in the NBA. I won't say his name because I ain't that type of guy.

I ain't selling nobody. I got you. But what he did tell me is, and the way he said, the coaches who has won championship, It's like this little fraternity. And they don't want to see a new coach enter. So Rick Carlisle is holding it down for all the coaches that has won. Because they don't want them in there yet.

To not let Mark Magnol enter the conversation. And right, I know this to be factual. It's a very prominent coach. He's a player. He might have won a championship as a player. Listen. I know these things to be sure, but listen. And saying that, though, and I think Rick has outcoached him.

Yeah, for sure. You've outcoached me, y'all too, too. Do you think Rick made a mistake? Because down the stretch, I think we had like three highly cross, cross, cross, cross, step back airball threes. Down the stretch was Rick. at fought for not making sure Pascal get the ball because absolutely.

I think Pascal is the guy when you need to get a great look. Pascal is the guy to get you to look. Was he bad down the stretch and not Pascal got to touch? I think so, you know, but I do think, too, is the kind of let your team play too because you got to think about, they often, you know it better not do.

It's just free flow. Like, they ain't really geared. It's the less house guy they're giving it to him on that chopper wing area right there. I call it chopper wing in between the slot and the wing in that area right there. If he getting it there where he's able to maneuver top of the key in the trail position or right there in the mid block, if you get in the ball of them three spots, get out the way, let them go to work, make sure we're spacing. But outside of that, it's spacing the floor.

We hid, we cutting off here. We're in our open action. We're in our rip action. It's a lot of movement, and that's the base of the offense. So I think he's smart enough and don't give a damn enough to say I'm going to let my team play. You know, if I have to go to that to, you know, them dirt spots, I go to it if I have to, meaning well, okay, C going to those dirt spots before they have to run action, which they ain't running. They ain't running no action.

Okay, C's just getting down here, putting the ball in the guy's hands, you know, looking for some overhelp kicking out, trying to make some threes and trying to get the spots. But Indiana more so, they're relying on their action and their movement because if you stand still on OKC and try to go to work, you're going to have some trouble.

Indiana don't have enough guys on an elite level that can just go get buckets. You know, so outside of Pasquette. Yeah. You know, so they got to rely on movement because if you, you know, if you let OKC, just load up and get back and be in position, oh, you're in trouble.

That's why they're getting it out. That's why he had five steals last game because they don't care. We're getting it out. We're not letting y'all get back and setting up. We're getting that ball down the court. We'll live with those steals. But we're getting that ball out.

Point one second. Touched out of there. We're gone. And they're getting that ball across half a quarter at three seconds. Every single possession. every single and the more they do that,

the more often they get their ball across the head quarter than three seconds. Now it's creating a flow in the shipping defense. You already created your bench. But if you get that ball up more than five seconds with a defense every single one under the touch the three-point line, you're in trouble.

Facts. What it also does is it create natural mismatches because we're all taught in transition you don't have a man. And the NBA, the first rule in transition is you don't have a man. Like, I think that you're just going to run to your man in transition. The other team, if your rules in the NBA are, you go get your man every time in training. You're in trouble.

The team will get a layup every possession. So that's the number one rule in the NBA. You don't have a man in transition. And so what is doing also is it's naturally creating these mismatch. It's naturally creating cross matches to where you, you know. Topping, topping going to have a guard on because he's running. Exactly. And topping out there like he on the track, man.

Exactly. He's running. And they say, you know, they're pushing it down. He already in the seal because he, because the only person can get back with him is a guard. Yep. Exactly. And you look at, you look at like, Hallie got maybe three layups in the third quarter going to his right hand, stretch out layups. none of them were on Lou Dork.

I think one of them was on the... Chet was behind him. She was on them. And that's because they're pushing the ball so fast. You just got to get matched up with who's ever the closest man. And that is to their advantage. And they take that advantage. Unfortunately, when the game slowed down,

you have to ask that we got to get that ball to Pascal. He's the only person on Indiana's team that can create a double team. That's it. Create the double team, you kick it out, and now you got the first domino to fall and everything else can just roll. Yep. Exactly.

And that's what they're missing. And, all, they got it. He just didn't go to us. So to go back to what you said, you know, I bet he had the career right now or probably in the office right now thinking about that stuff. My God, dog. Yep.

You know, they understand that. You know, man, it's real. You know, it's real. We've been in the moments, you know what I mean? So you live with some, you know, you go back to the room and you say, man, you start kicking yourself. No sleep. You're just playing it all back, playing it all back, which you can do it all over again, but you can't. You got to move on to the next.

Our twos. It's two, too, too. Yes, it is. It's two, too, man. So, speaking of moving on to the next one, we had in the game five, and going into game five, what do you think is the most important thing going into game five for OKC, who's heading back home? But then also for Indiana who got to go back on the road, you've given up home court again.

You've got to go get it back. What is it heading into game five for these guys? Well, I think game five for OKC is more so going back home with some confidence, you know. Even though they was losing. the entire single game and came back and won the end. That little bit gave them the confidence they needed to go win game five.

You know, they just knew that, oh, we got out of here with one. It's all. You know, so now they can go home and they can regroup. They're going to get their energy from their fans. So now when they, you know,

what did the media been talking about the latter today? Oh, they look tired. It is, oh, they ain't going to look tired on game five. I promise you they ain't going to be tired in game five. Very spry. what are energy that's going to be,

they're just going to be pulling energy from the crowd. So I expect, you know, OKC to have one of those high-scoring games, though, that 125, 135 type of game, game five, my opinion, I feel like the defense is going to create, you know,

a lot of tough shots. Like, Indiana, he's getting a lot of good looks. And now it's going to be game five on the road. And a lot of them looks that they make, and even some tough ones, they better shoot a high percentage. And like game two, they was in the 30s.

And so I think it's one of them games, but OKC got to make shots. The more of that ball going to basket, even though they're getting it out quick, the more you can get your defense set. The more you score, the more you have energy on the defensive end for getting stops because everybody's feeling good.

You know, everybody's pumping their chest. We're scoring the ball. they bring energy on the defensive end also. So now we got confidence on the offensive end. Now we're running more. Now other guys, I just think it's going to be one of those games for OKC. My opinion, I think it's going to be a game with OKC dominate. Now, then it's going to be a domination game.

Now, Indiana, I had to go back home as far as regrouped and send it to game seven. That's my, you know, kind of perception of what's going to happen going forward. I just think, OK, C, got away with one. You know, I think this was the game, and they, and Indiana did what they had to do to get them. Yes, they did. You know, how hard it was to get these two games they could have got. Ooh.

That would have won them. That would have won them. I'm talking about national, NBA championship, man. There one game that they had. They had the game. They had the game. Listen, this puts them up 3-1, which moves us on. Oh, my goodness, man.

Speaking to Game 5, today in NBA history, LeBron and Kyrie scored 41 points. They go out of their mind, and y'all beat us, excuse me, because game 5 is, I'm suspended. So both guys go for 41, and we are headed back to Cleveland for game 6. Like, what's the conversation like now, right? Like, so game five, that was the year before, you was thinking about this, this 16.

Yeah. Yeah. So 16. So game five, obviously that happened between you and bra and game four. You did as a favorite. Like, if you did it today. Adam did you all the same. I didn't do y'all.

Yeah. I did what I'm supposed to. Adam did you. But we, yeah. That's the whole not. That ain't got something to do with me. They got some do with y'all. y'all are the ones that there's up there talking to Adam and stuff,

handling that. That's who handled all that. So listen, you did us a favor because by you not being a game five, that really gave us confident that we got past game five. There was the game y'all could have put us away. Like if you play a game five, y'all could have put us away because we just needed something. And the motivation we got going back for game six was the whole time going back home, we remember Christmas.

Y'all remember y'all, we played on Christmas. Yeah, no, beat us. But y'all came in there talking about, oh, it still smell like champagne up here. Champagne in there. We never forgot that. We never forgot it. Oh, it's still smell like champagne.

We like, damn, that's how they feel. So coming back for game six, all we're saying, hey, man, they ain't celebrating it. the queue. That was all we were saying, and you already know, all you need is something. You get what I'm saying? So, like, that was the biggest thing. So fast forward, we win game six, going back for game seven. Now we're in the mold like, anything can happen type stuff. But what really got our head right was we started talking about how we're going to be,

what we're going to do during the parade. This is before game seven. That's why you start like J.R. with the shirt off. You saw a lot of us with a shirt off, but J.R. the one that they talk about. But that's what we say. We say something, man. I ain't wearing a shirt for a week. I ain't doing it. Like, it's just things that we're kind of putting out in the atmosphere, like when we win it, when we win it, when we win it. So it was just that mindset once we got past game six. And game seven, and obviously, man, I tell people this story all the time. And you can, now you're hearing it from, someone opposing team perspective.

And just to be in their game for every possession, understanding how much every single possession matters. I played 12 minutes at game. Every possession I had in that game matters. My matchup was Sean Liverston. I have to understand his spots. I got to know exactly what's on the scound report, where I need to send them,

what shot I want him taking. You get what I mean? And every single minute that carry on the bench and I'm in the game, like my minute's important. And I can make a break-us in need 12 minutes. Absolutely. So I just remember just every single possession and just the moment the block happened, the shot happened,

just this clock going zero, zero, just all those moments when you win, And obviously you have the experience of doing it multiple times, but just the feeling of when the clock, just imagine your first one how that felt. Yeah. That's how mine felt. You get what I'm saying? You know, so at the end of the day, then you're going back to Cleveland, we lead you guys. I don't know if you know this story. I'm sorry, I'm assuming you do.

Oh, yeah. We were debate. But this is a crazy thing, though, Dray. This is a crazy thing. We had two planes. It was two planes. one plane for the family, one plane for the team, right? They put the family on the plane.

They went on to Cleveland. We got in the air for an hour and boom, boom, boom. We're in Vegas. We're like, what the hell? We're in Vegas. Family home, man. We in Vegas to 8, 9 in the morning. Then we fought in Cleveland, man.

This, shit, 100,000 people like at the airport is crazy. 1.5 million people downtown at the parade. 1.5 million. Man, it was experienced like, no other. I bet it was. I remember our first parade in Oakland. Oakland never expected to see a parade. And there was over a million people out there. And it was one of the best days in my life. So I can only imagine what that was like from you, especially being in the position, where it's like, you're supposed to lose the series. Exactly. Right. It's over.

Exactly. I can only imagine what that was like. But in speaking of that, that ended up being the last year of your career. Two part question. Number one, how did you end up back in Cleveland for the last year of your career, where you became an all-star, where you, like, Moe Williams always had a great career and was putting together a good career. But, like, you really became one of the ones, in my opinion, like, in Cleveland. Like, you had 50 before and, like, all of the things.

But, like, we've seen other guys have 50, like, that you think, all right, like, that guy had 50. but like I felt like you really became like one of them dudes in Cleveland and then to go there for that last year. What was that whole process like for you? It was good, man, because there was, I was in, I was in Minnesota. We was bad that year.

That was the year that flipped pass away, unfortunately, right after that. And me, you were Rick and Rubio, we just drafted Zach Levine. And I signed there. as a free agent. I was coming off surgery with my thumb, leaving Utah, and I went to Minnesota, and I started playing, you know, toward the first half of the season. They were trying to bring Zach along. Rubio got hurt, so I started playing a lot of minutes starting playing 35, 37, and

it always works itself out. So I'm hoping, and then all of a sudden, you know, we're sorry as hell. So, you know, they're trying to break back up, which was a good decision. And Flip came to me. It was crazy because I was supposed to go to Cleveland. I was supposed to get bought out and go to Cleveland midseason and play against y'all in the 15th. I would have been against y'all that year. So Flip come to me, he said, Mo, you know, he said, I'm going to trade you, man. So, you know, I'm going to play.

This is how real Flip's on the world. He came and he said, Mom, I'm going to trade you. No, he said, hey, he said, hey. I'm a Zach Gavine, young fellow. We, you know, we're going to bring him up. He's going to play more than me. You ain't going to play. But I'm a, I'm a trade you.

So, you know, talk to your agents. Y'all get back with me. He said, man, I can't look down there at that bench. You know, you should be playing. And I can't play. I said, man, that's real. So we had our team. It was obviously L.A.

And it was Cleveland. So we went to him with those options. you know, me and Rich talk and Rich, you know, talking through, talking for Brun. And he's just like, yeah, man, let's figure out how we can get bought out over there and the deal done. So we were trying to work and through that. The flip came to him and said, hey, I can't get you away for nothing. That ain't going to happen. So I ended up going to Charlotte.

And Kimball was down a little bit and they were right in that ninth spot. So they was fighting for a playoff spot. And let me tell you something crazy about that season. I was in Minnesota. We were sorry as head. I won Western Conference Player the Year. I'm not a Player of the Week. West Conference Player the Week.

I get traded mid-seasoned to the East of Conference of Charlotte. Second week there, we're going to East Carolina Player the Week. That's fine. You look up the record. I only only player that ever did that. That's fine. When a player the week in both conferences in the same year, obviously you've got to get traded.

but I'm the only player that's ever been done. I looked it up. Now, you tell me if I'm wrong, but that's something I could take to my grade right there that I ain't seen having too often. You know, so obviously. So obviously. Because guys that good to win those awards don't get traded.

Exactly. Exactly. So I want to play at a week in both conference in the same year. So I was a free agent this summer, and you remember Kyle Reeve was hurt. Remember he came back on Christmas against y'all?

Yes he did. You know the next year. So I was a free agent and I had some option to go some team and get a little money, but it was none playoff teams or teams that ain't have a chance.

And then I started talking to Cleveland and reached out, being Griffith was talking. Dave was over there. Griffin was over there at the time. So we started talking. They ain't had no money. So basically, you know,

they like, you know, we come over here, Kyle Rie going to be out. We need somebody to come in and start and play heavy minutes. You know, Deli is a backup and we want to keep them in that role. And when Calri come back, you know,

he's going to play, Delis going to play, you just got to stay ready, you know, so they kind of sold me on that. And just like, man, you know,

we compete for a championship and, you know, when things open up, we'll be, you know, money, we'll be willing to pay you. Obviously,

you have an opportunity to go get it wherever you want to go. So, I took that option, you know, because I wanted to win a championship, because at the moment, at the time, I was even debating being done anyway, not even worried about another contract because actually my knee was messed up. And I had another year left on the deal. I just got the surgery and shut it down. And I played through that season.

My last season, I played through it with a messed up knee and got surgery after the season and decided to hang it up. But the championship aspect of it really, really made the decision for me. It made the decision easy for me. And then, you know, at that time, you know, I had the gym in Dallas. I had the youth team going on and I was coaching. I had got that bug. And, you know, at that point, I got, you know, obviously I got seven boys and all my boys

coming up playing. And I wanted to start my second half of my career. I knew I wanted to coach. And eventually I want to, you know, obviously get to a level where I can compete for national championship. But, you know, I got to grind. I got to pay my dues. You know what I mean? And I'm obviously at Jackson State, HBCU, where we don't have all the resources. You know, people don't really understand, like, the things I got to do, you know, as far as like non-conference schedule. You know, I got to play, you know, the Houston, the Michigan States, the, you know,

the dude, the Gonzagas, you know, to get $100,000 a game to raise my budget, which is now $100,000. So, you know, I can pay my Saturday guys can travel the way. way we need to travel and get the thing we got to get. But what they do is it puts us on the road with 13 straight game. We don't have a schedule to compete like, you know, other teams. And then you look at my record and you say, you know, he's just a 500 coat. But I'm 41 and 15 in conference play. You get what I'm saying?

Absolutely. You know, but I didn't play 39 straight on the road by games. You know what I mean? So for me is like people don't understand that story. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I reach out to people to just try to get people to kind of understand if we can just get some support. Like, man, we get somebody together because we are 501C3.

You can get all your right outs. Because we're a school. We're educational school. So now when we're talking about hip and our kind of hip and our institution, that's how we can help us. You know, it ain't about talking about it or putting on the whatever. It's the financial part. is the difference in the Dukes, not even the Dukes. I'm talking about like the Sam Houston and Louisiana's.

You know, that type of level, like they don't have to go out and play by games. They have home games. They can, you know, they can do that because they got a million dollars coming in. The difference between those schools, I have to go raise that money by playing games. Now we can function like any other Division I team. but if you can go out, say, I'm just giving this example. I say, Dre, you are our GM.

Because that's what he's got, right? You are a GM. All you doing is, you're going to go to 10 people that you know and say, match my 100,000. And they're going to say, all right, Dre, I'm going to match your 100,000. And you're going to create an entity.

Y'all going to put that, you're going to get that money. You're going to send it to the Jackson State. That is going to get a right off from a donation every single year. That creates. side budget. You know what I mean? So now I can go play 13-9 conference game where I'm playing North Carolina Central.

You know what I'm saying? Where I'm playing. You get what I'm saying where I'm playing Savannah State, right? Those are games I should be playing. Why should I, I don't, me playing Michigan State that don't make sense. It's just a practice game for us. But I got to do it. You get what I'm saying?

I got to go raise $100,000. but that ain't the type of environment you're giving your kid. Because now you've got to think about this. Imagine you want to see you have a son and you want to send your son to HBCU. You play at Michigan State. You want him to have some of the same things that you had, you know, all the things that that's cool. It can be created at HBCU, but you don't have the capacity to get it done.

You get what I mean. So if you can get deep. to get involved in a way of getting the money here. Now you can go raise money and have a meal plan and have certain things. The little things you can't go get because you're spending all your money just on raiding for a by game and getting through your salaries and everything like that. So you're just rob and Peter to pay Paul every year instead of building things around. So that's the biggest thing that I want you to know when you are around people.

It ain't got to be just Jackson State, but just understand HBCU is a job. general, if they have a group, and that's something that you can be an initiative for fund and make that initiative where get groups together and get that's tied to HBCU and as far as financially, put something toward them, you know what I mean, and put some toward the men's basketball program or whatever program that they tied to because that's the between, you know, those universities and APCU, because we all operate the same. No, and I think, I think let's also take it a step further,

because I am a college basketball fan, and obviously I watch Michigan State faithfully, but you talk to selection Sunday and all these things. Let's take it a step further. Say, y'all do win your conference, but you've lost 13 games to Michigan State, Duke, North Carolina, Gonzaga, blah, blah, blah, because you've had to play these games from a budget standpoint.

Now you get the 16-16 playing game, as opposed to if you didn't have to play those games and y'all are Jackson State but are 29 and 4. Exactly. You may get the 13th seed that don't have to play in. And it's just a totally different ball game than, the 16-16, you win the 16-16, great, good luck, you play Aubrey. Exactly.

And you got no chance. That as well, right? You have no chance. And that's one thing, and we're all fighting for just that one spot you're talking about. And even going further with that is, you take me, for example, last year. I finished second in the league last year, one game out of first place, right? One game out of tournament. So just think about this.

I got 13 non-conference. I'll go 0 and 13 in non-conference. From that point on when conference play started, I won 16 out of 20 games. You get what I'm saying? So imagine if I play a non-conference schedule like anybody else and just say I go 8 and 5. Yeah.

That's 24. That's 24 and 9. Now I lose that championship game. I'm in the NIT. I'm in some kind of other tournament. I don't even get the opportunity to go into another tournament because I'm 18, I'm 16 to 17. I'm below 500.

But I don't want 16 out of 20 games when conference play start. So that's what I'm trying to change. And the only way I can change that is getting money to the money that I got to go get to buy money, that $900,000. If I can raise that and give that to the school, now I can create the schedule where it can be balanced, where I can get home games. And you get good competitive games,

just like anybody else's play that go, you go look at the UABs, you know, the two lines, like the FAUs, those schools, they can, we're on the same level as them. But the difference is, they coach only going to have to go play one of those. games to go get a hundred thousand i got to go get now that's the difference you know because the school the school aspect the actual school the the athletic department is the department of the school

the school is funding all departments right at those schools i'm talking about at jackson state athletic we create our own budget really that's what's what I'm trying to tell you. Like, the school does, if I don't go out and play $900,000, we do not operate. So I'm not only helping men's basketball, but I'm helping women's basketball. I'm helping volleyball. Football go out and play one game. They don't have to play one game.

And they just fund themselves. But I got a fun because the other sports are not generate income-generates sports. I'm the only sport on campus that can go out and raise a million dollars just playing games and get my ass kick. Wow. And then they take some of that money and give it to other programs.

Yes. How do you win? My point is that. I just told you, I am 41 and 15 in conference playing three years. But I played 39 straight games on the road. I'm talking about I ain't playing. I'm playing mid-Mazzo.

I'm playing Memphis. That's what I'm playing. I went to Missouri and beat them. I went to SMU and I beat them. I went to Georgetown. It's a four-point game with two minutes to go. And George Kula said, Hey, Ma, it ain't'll be long for you get somewhere,

but don't call me no more. I'm not playing. So the difference is now when you talk about me knowing what I'm doing, trying to move up and get other jobs, they look at, man, why he ain't winning game? Because those A-Ds ain't on this. they don't understand what I got to go through.

So that's why I tell this story. You don't know this. You get what I'm saying? So when I call people and I'm like, yo, I need this. I need that. It's hard. Two people have done something for me that I know in a league. Damn, sent me 50.

CJ sent me 10. You know what I mean? They understand what's going on. But if I can get the smallest shoes. Exactly. You know, so I'm trying to get the work. Because I didn't know this until. I got here.

We don't, because we got our own lives. We don't understand this. We just know when we see non-conference game and it's so sweats, HBCU playing a B school, they lose them by 60. That's all we know. That's all we know. They have no business playing them. We have no, we have no business.

Why do you think, why you think football has the NCAA and the LCS? They're not playing them. Yeah. We shouldn't play Duke. We shouldn't play Alabama. Like, they shouldn't be on our schedule. Like, how, how am I skipping, you know, Louisiana Monroe? You know what I'm saying?

And going to play them because Louisiana Monroe can't pay $100,000. So I have to go play Yukon, Gonzaga, because all they doing is to try to feed, all of them schools are trying to fill three games on their schedule. So they're just going to go give us $100,000 come up there and get their butt work. We ain't got a chance to win the game. That ain't making you no better. You spend the time keeping your team together. You give what I'm saying because you ain't going to win the game.

The refs ain't going to let you. It's so much against you. So when I go to Missouri, the SEC team and beat them on their floor, man, we celebrate. Why are we celebrating because we weren't supposed to win this game? That part. That part. You know, so, man, if you can, if you can understand that and say, man, you know what, more, I'm going to figure out some way to help you. That'll change our life down here.

I respect. So, so from an NIL standpoint, right, like the actual NIL, did that affect you? Or because of the problems you're already dealing with, that didn't necessarily come to, you see what I'm trying to say? like it didn't necessarily come to that level because of the problems you're already dealing with. Or did NIL screw y'all even more? No, I think one of both. I think when I say one of both, I mean, it didn't screw us, but in some cases it did. When I say it didn't, because there's so many kids out there, it's so many kids.

And everybody think they're going to get $100,000, $200,000, $300,000 so far gone up. You know, if you want to talk to a million, we talk about a select few. But the norm is then the three, four hundred, you know, like 500, 600, depends on what level, you know, high major, you know, seven on up, mid-major going to be kind of two up to seven. And then when you get down our level, lower level, you know, anything under 100, you know, is good, you know. So, you know, my guys is, you know, they're getting good money, you know.

And that's another way that, you know, that I, that's part that I have to do. So I can't do nothing for to buy money because I won't have a team if I don't have no money to even get kids, no money. So from that aspect, you've got to be able to have money. On my level, you have to pay guys. And guys are getting paid on our level if you want to be good, you know. Or is it, for example, Michigan, they got players when they take. making $2 million. You know what I mean?

We don't have that. You get what I mean? So you come here and get you a nice little number under 100, under 50, you know, you're in that rain. You're living good. You know what I mean? And on our level, you really at the upper echelon, you're doing it big, you know,

because you have some cases down here where they don't have nothing. You know, so the beauty of it is, is there's a lot of guys that get in the portal looking for the money. And on our level, you got to be smart about it. And we're at a point where we have to wait.

You know, so when recruiting open up, I can't just go out and recruit you right away. You know, I got to wait until that, that domino just keeps falling down, you know, because money going to dry up. Mm-hmm. Of course. And then when, you know,

when that 50,000, 60,000 was, was like disrespectful, now it's almost like dude that ear's four grand money okay all right I'm like and deal you know it's different when you don't have nothing so you kind of just sit on it sometime and get

the right kid you know just get the right kid you know do I have kids you know that can go to Duke one day possibly you know but they're young you know they're freshmen you know I recruit young and I recruit kids you know they've got an opportunity to play

a bigger school and I sit Tell them, I'm different. I get good kids because I sell them on the fact that I want to get you to that level. I want to get you at Bama. I want to get you a state. Give me one or two years, you know, and I got a kid like that last year that was freshman of the year. He'll be a sophomore this year, and I expect them to have a big year and get in the

pool and go get some money. I got a kid, a guard man, coming back. There was a McNam that's All-American. I mean, got a chance, we got a real chance to be a pro, real chain point guard transferred from me from old miss um man the kid the kid is electric he got hurt missed last season came back this this season second in the league and scored first in the league and assists so i got talent you know what i mean so like with the team i got safest i play you know a respectable schedule man i'm i'm 24 wins you know you know it's just a different ball game so

I'm fighting real hard to kind of change that aspect of because me person, man, I don't want, I don't want to lead. You get what I'm saying? I like the space that I mean. I'm at the career, man. I want to build this thing and I, and I just want to be able to do that for,

for my city. You know what I'm saying? So if I, if I can get hold of you guys and get some people just to understand, and support it, man, watch this thing blow up and be a part of it. And I think it would be something special. No doubt, man. Now, that's good.

That's good to hear because I never had any clue that that was the case. And so just, like, just knowing that, I think it makes a difference for all of us. Just having the knowledge, right? For sure. You don't got the knowledge, you just don't know, right? Like, you think all these schools, like, it's a college. Mm-hmm. It won't work like that.

And that's just kind of what you think. So I think, but I also think, you know, and we'll move on before we get out of here. But I hope in all these rules that they're changing, because they're figuring it out, right? Like the NIA or four or five years old or something like that, the transfer reporter. Like I feel like they're throwing shit out of the wall and seeing what sticks. Exactly. I hope that it ultimately can become a system. like Europe where, and when I say Europe, I mean European football in particular, where you come

get a guy from the lower league, you got to pay that program $2 million to get that player. Yeah. Or maybe it's not $2 million like that's professional sports. It's PSG. It's reality. Like that's a different, but maybe it's not. But to your point, them having to pay you $200,000, $300,000, that makes a big difference. Big difference.

I hope to see that. And I think it's only fair that as this thing continues to come into effect and rules continue to change that when you're getting these kids from these smaller schools, you got to pay that smaller school. I don't get that school a chance. You're going to come. You shouldn't just be able to free-for-all every year. Up, that player had a good year and that.

Come here. Like, because I know you. And so I hope it gets to a point to where there's like a transfer fee because this is no longer amateur sports. is no longer, you know, you, uh, what is it, what they, they call college. I, I, it's so fake. I forgive it. Hey, hey, you want, you want to hear something, you want to hear something crazy.

So you want to hear something crazy, Dre? So I would talk to the coach. I don't want to say the name because he told me this is confident. Between you talking about NIL. So imagine if this happened to you. So in schools, some schools now, the schools, are able to pay the kids right now, most of the schools now.

But in some schools, you got a certain date. Like, say the date is like June 30, right? That date is the only, like, if you don't spend that money, then we give you for NIR, and it goes away. So, listen to this.

So your deal is $2 million a year. They've got to give you the $2 million, June 30th when you get on campus. So you can leave. My point exactly. Now, you sign, but you're on campus. They got to give you all.

They ain't giving it to you monthly, first and $15, $2 million in your hand. June. This is a true story. What? Man, a coach told me that I was about. I don't even give my money like that. My point is exactly. Said they had to use it because it would have went away on that date,

so they had to give it to them where they wouldn't have. Imagine that. you, man, I think college 18, 19, 20 years old, you just give me $2 million. Come on, man. That's what I say. Good for the years. Now, that's when you say they're going to have to make something,

you know, but from the changes they just made, created that, though. Think about it. So really, you didn't happen. You created another issue. Oh, yeah, you created more. Because of the new rule. that's what that school had to do.

But I actually think the NCAA did that on purpose. Like I think the NCAA wanted to throw his whole thing and everyone face like, boom, there you go, got it, let it blow up in everybody. Yeah, that's what y'all want here. That's what I believe happened. But a couple of questions before we get out of here. Just talking about the NBA.

Number one, and I would love to know your answer to this question because of who you were in your career and that line he walked, right, of like being an all-star, being a guy who got it. But for the past few weeks, it's been this constant conversation about players that's a superstar or not. Yeah, yeah. And so I think my question of you is, how would you describe a superstar in NBA? We all saw Magic the other day say a person who can go on the road and sell the building out. How do you describe it? That's just marketing.

You know what I mean? You know, I feel like, you know, superstar is, I'm talking about pure on the court. You know, that's marketing and that's just selling stuff. And you don't have to be a superstar to sell stuff. You got to just be marketable. But when you talk about a superstar, I'm talking about somebody that can gavinize a whole franchise. You get what I mean. Like, Steph is a superstar.

You know what I'm saying? Just as oral, just off when that moment, and let's take step out of just what I'm just talking about a superstar now, just in any moment, understanding on how big their stage is and always able to step up into that spot of whatever it is that they do best on how they are a superstar. I feel like a superstar is someone that no matter what the opponent has in front of them, they can overcome it, no matter if they might get knocked down. They may got stopped in this series or this game, you know.

But at the end of the day, he's going to figure that out. That's a superstar, you know, I'm a role star. You know what I'm saying? And so at the end of the day, it's moments where, shit, I can't do nothing tonight. I mean, they only, first of all, I'm on the, I've had three good games. They got a scheme on me. They, they, they ain't really worried about Brown tonight. They feel like if we take Mo out, then, you know, let Bron get his 40 tonight.

He ain't in real aggressive night anyway. Then I'm just going to struggle a little bit. It ain't nothing I can do. You know what I mean? They scheme got me. But a superstar, it ain't nothing you can do. You just got to just hope that they don't figure out their game and they don't figure out their series.

And, you know, they just, whatever you created, you know, it just, you know, obviously just kept them in a font. You know, just I take 16 for his natural. Just that was kind of the first season where we just kind of just, our scound report was anytime Steph is around, you better not go by and what I touch him. Like every time you see him touch him, boom. And J.R. just happened to be in the screen with him the whole time.

He's just taking advantage. He leaning into it. You know what I'm saying? So, like, that was something that we did. You know what I'm saying? That was in the scout report. That's something that we talked about, you know, making sure we're physical, making sure we hitting him, making sure we hitting him.

Because he never wanted to switch. You know, so we was make them switch, hit him. You know, so when you're understanding that, you look at Steph now, You can't do that to step to date. They're not. You know what I'm saying? That does not work. It doesn't work.

So how many superstars do you say are actually in the NBA? Because I think people get the superstar tagging. They're not superstars. Hey, listen, man, that's a small room, dog. Very small. It ain't even no key to their room. Like, you got to, like, you got to, like, get it stamped on you and it just automatically

open when you get there. You get what I'm saying? Like, you talk about Superstar. I mean, let's, you know, obviously, broad, you got, obviously, like that ain't even to talk about. I put step in that category, obviously. Yonest.

And when I say Yonest, in my opinion, because I don't give a damn, man. Man, you can't, listen, man, that's Yonis. You understand exactly what I'm saying. It ain't no guarding him. It's just scheming for them and what we're going to give him, what we're forcing them into.

Like, that's a sign of a superstar, too. It's like, man, we're going to go out here and guard him. We're going to shut him down. No, man, we're forcing them to this right here all night long. And if he go get forwarded it right here, it is what it is. You know, I got to pause, man, because I can't just get it out like that. You know, I don't just want to be saying names. I mean, quai.

I mean, oh, that's that. I mean, yeah, but you, but you straddling when you get to, you know, like he's a star. Like, Jay's hunting a star. He's like a really good star, you know, like, man, superstar, like, that's almost, when you talk about superstar, you always talk about, man, it's tricky, man. legend stuff, man, you're talking about AIs. And like, that's almost disrespectful to the AIs. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, man, I remember my second year in the league, man. Don't forget this. Third year, might be my third year. Man, this is the year after because he won the championship, he won the MVP in 04, there's got to be 2005. Man, we playing Philly in Milwaukee, AI scoring champion,

the previous season, MVP, my first year's start, and on my second year's start, we playing in Milwaukee. He first half 15 points, make a long, so short, first half 15 points. We go ahead of time to your party to hype me up. A-mo's going to help a job, man, over there, keep it up, you know, so.

So you're coming out. So you come by the tunnel I got to walk Come by a tunnel They tell us though He got to go to this goal We got to go We got to walk by each other

So you know I'm walking by I remember what Coach said And I'm young It's my third year So walking by AI AY A walk around and said

See a young fellow out And sweated to look out That's all That's all he said That's all he said But we never stop he said it as he walking by A young fella

I never swear to look out And we just left I just act like he ain't here But I heard He finished the gate 54 That's a strong Into you to have

Man we walked by each other and said A young fella I swear to that look out It's over May 54 Jesus That's a true story That's a super strong

That's a super star. That's a true story, man. That's a superstar. That's a superstar. That's Sterk Curry in the front of Boston bench in 2020 saying, it's your last win in this finals and that actually being your last win. Obviously, that's a different thing. It's the NBA finals.

But only superstars can do that. We once heard. I don't know if the story's true, but we once heard a story of Patrick Bradley saying, you had the last five years, I got the next five years. Superstars can say that. But you have to be a superstar because you have to be able to control so much.

And only superstars, and by the way, when I say only superstars, like four to five of them, there's not... That's it. That's it. Like, man, as much as I love KD, like much as I love KD. Like, he's, he's looking. a star like

I'm not like Katie or Superstar No I'm not I'm not disrespecting you I know I know but but

but okay I'm with you I'm with you I'm with you I'm going to you why I'm going to tell you why

I'm going to say like superstar right here and like Katie like like to me like he like he like man

they're ready to open the dough for him you want to tell you why Katie is but you play but you play with him

though you play I'm gonna tell you why Katie is a superstar no matter where you place him, he can do the same exact thing. Okay. If he's on my team, your team, LeBron James team,

Nicola Yolkish team, Step Curry team. All right. He can do the same exact thing on no matter where he is. All right. So now you open it up a little bit now. So James Hart. Has he done the same exact? acting anywhere

else outside of Houston? KG. See? Okay. That's what I'm saying. That's a superstar. That's what I'm saying. When you say, when you,

when we locked in on KD like a no-brainer superstar, then that's when the KG, when you started talking KG, the, because KG is a super, you get what I'm saying? Now it's like, there are no-brainers.

You get what I'm saying? When we were talking about like superstars, like transcended like four or five bronze step yeah yeah yeah yeah i get what you're like now now now that now that list get get a little bit bigger i see what you're saying you know what i'm saying it'll get bigger now well we ain't really you know locked in on just kind of two qualities and we just open it up it's just kind of like the bag then then you can start you know not not a paul pierce's coming question all right i like what i'm saying We go back.

You get what I'm saying? Another Paul Pierce coming question. You know, he like borderline almost now. You get what I'm saying? And we started to broaden it up a little bit. Definitely not in the category. No disrespect to the truth. I think he is the truth.

But you get what I'm saying. But you're giving me too much space. All right. Exactly. I can't argue that one. Say no more. I can't argue that one. I respect.

But that's why that's, so touchy, that's why they haven't been a topic for a month or so now. Yes, sir. Because we respect people so much where I feel like KG, I feel like AIs and all them guys are superstar, but everybody, like, how do you,

it's all depends on how you categorize superstars. You know, some people is like, nah, bro, it ain't number two up. Mike and, Mike and Braun, that's it. You know what I'm saying? Kobe 8. even there. I didn't hurt that.

That's idiotic. You get what I'm saying? Listen, I follow you on. Oh, that's just a broad. I just a broad. And I'll take that back about KD, because now the more I think about it, I just felt like I disrespected them. You feel me? So it's like, you know, you get what I'm saying? You don't know. When you think

about it, you know, it's like, okay, if you brought it up, KD or no brain. You know what I'm saying? He's on the same level as AI, KG. Yes. Because if they superstar, this is a no brain for KD. But if you're saying, Hey, man, they got to be on Mike and bro 11. I'm like, real shit.

Ain't number two of them, three of them? From a basketball perspective, KD and Alan Iverson are definitely on, and Katie's a two-time champion, right? And by the way, I'm the biggest Allen Iverson fan. Shout out to the OG, just had a birthday, happy birthday to him again, happy fifth of you. But from a basketball perspective, I feel like what KD bring to the kids,

game and what AI brought to the game is very similar. Where it differs is AI changed the whole culture. And he changed the whole way of how we all look at the game, how we felt like we can act, how we thought we could dress, but he changed so many different things. And I think that's what makes AI a little different. But, no, no. I mean, KD got this same effect, though. He does.

KD got everybody who's over six, seven, thinking we should dribble a show. And how authentic he is. You get what I'm saying? Absolutely. He's one of the guys. Yeah, so I think he has an AI kind of feel, you know, from a superstar standpoint.

You get what I mean? So the superstar that was in the league at that time with AI had their own persona. Now the superstars in the league along with KD, the bronze and the stealth. They got a whole different persona than KD. KD counted the AI of this group. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. No, 1,000% I agree. My last question before we get out of here, and I think this is an interesting question for me. You play with Braun before he went to Miami. Mm-hmm. You also played with Bronn after he left Miami. Mm-hmm.

What was the, what was any difference that you've seen? And maturity maturity All the little things Maturity Just older You know Just doing things

Just you know Maturity You know When the first time I was there He did all the things He was doing When he got back But he was doing it better

And he was doing it You know more precise You know He had it He had it dialed in You know When they talk about You know

Him taking care of his body You know He was doing that the first time, but when I got with him the second time, it was like clockwork. You know what I'm saying? I knew what times he was going to be down there, it's going to be early in the morning when he's doing this. You know what time, how early he gets to the game. You know when he's going to be there, shoot around when we get there. You know he's going to be at the gym before the first bus get there.

You know he getting the massage. Like, I still remember that routine because I saw it so much every single day. And that was the difference I saw. And obviously that translates to the court just off him just playing games, getting older and just being better and being, you know, one of the greatest players than his game just matured.

He just, everything got better. And obviously, as he, the second time around, he shot the ball a whole lot better. I think that's one of the biggest thing that, you know, that part of his game kept going on and obviously got to the point where he had. But just the maturity in this game, I'll say, just out of the decision-making,

just being more sharper, just understanding spots. on how to go get a bucket when he wanted to. I think he's always been a great feel for the game. And I think just the development on the just going to get a bucket, you know, understand. You know, you understand the game. You know, you know guys that I can go get a bucket when I want to go get a bucket.

And, you know, some guys ain't really about that life. So it just depends on how they feel, on how they're going their day, on how aggressive they don't be. You know, I thought, you know, so I thought that part of the game, well, he needed to go get a bucket. He knew how to get to his spots and get an efficient shot that he knew he could make. No, that's fire, man. Man, I appreciate you for coming on the show, bro.

Obviously, want to wish you happy Father's Day. Absolutely. The same to you, that's crazy. I was laying down a day of my wife was a house. I saw that on the ground. I said, man, Father's Day, Sunday. She said, yeah, fool. And I got seven kids.

I should know that. Hey. By the way, I saw Mace got a few offers, huh? Yeah, he did, man. He's bawling. Yeah, he's bawling, man. Nah, he bawling, man, about 6, 3, 6, 4. You know, point goal, handling that thing.

He's got a good body. No, he's going to be straight. And my other son is a freshman with me. So I got, yeah, yeah. But, you know, my other one, the one you're talking about, I ain't going to see him. He's getting some offers. So DePaul just called about him today.

So he got Washington. He got Louisiana. He probably, domestic state. About 10 offers now. So I've been proud of, man. Hey, man, I'm a proud dad, man. That's a bad. Just got back from the NBA top one at 100 camp with him.

Man, man, it's a blessing, man. I got one of my son that's on my staff. My oldest son is one of my assistant coaches. You know, a coach of my son. He's a freshman. Then I got those one about to be a senior in high school. They're going to be able to pick wherever he want to go. Man, I bet I was in the NBA top 100 camp.

My one that's assistant coach was in the camp. my freshman that was in the camp last year. So, man, I'm blessed, man. Like, I don't have no complaints, dog. I got seven boys, man. So I get to, you know, do this thing over and over again. That's why I'm in coaching, man, just to, I love what I do, man. I love what I do.

I love where I'm at. I appreciate you guys like yourself, man, that, you know, the friendships that I created over my life, man. And I just sit back, man. I don't do much, man. You know, I just love what I do. I coach, be around my kids, and sit on my acres, you know, in Mississippi, post it up, man.

I love it, man. That's incredible, bro. I'm happy for you. I was rooting like hell for y'all to get that one last game and get in that tournament. But it's coming this year. No doubt. Godspeed, man.

Everything, you know, everything happens for a reason. It's a reason I ain't winning. I part, but it's coming. It's definitely a doubt. I appreciate you, brother. Thank you. I appreciate you. I just want to mention again showing me how to take care of guys that come after me.

You know what I'm saying? Like, what you did for me, I could never thank you enough. It showed me, it just showed me more, you know what I'm saying? It showed me what it could become from me. And then it also showed me what it need to look like for the guys that come after me. And you ain't know me from a can of paint. You know what I'm saying? Like I ain't grow up with somebody you brought up or.

In your neighborhood, you ain't know me from a can of pain. You just saw a young dude in the NBA trying to make it. And to take me in like that, I'll never forget it. And I appreciate it. And we're going to have some more conversations about Jackson State because, you know, I'm a proud Michigan State donor. No doubt. You're already known I'm a roll-tied all day.

We're a proud Michigan State donor, but, you know, I got a lot of respect for what you're doing. And hearing that meant a lot to me. So I hope someone out there heard what I heard and feel how I feel and want to bring or help. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. It's hard to carry it all, but just to offer a helping hand.

So we'll be chopping it up about that for sure. I appreciate that. I appreciate it, I appreciate it, I appreciate it. I love, man. Love you, man. Appreciate you, man. Keep doing what you doing, dog.

Appreciate you coming on. All right, boy. Yes, sir. To the rest of y'all out there, that's a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green Show. We just had a legend on here, but like I said, even more than legend,

somebody who cared about the next guys, because that's what keep this thing going. It's, you know, you see the finished product, but you don't see the people going through it and the people that's offering to help a hand of vets. Like, Vets is a missing thing

in this league today. And I am a product of great vets, Jermaine O'Neill, David Lee, Andrew Bogart, Carl Landry, Richard Jefferson, Moe Williams, the guy who took me on this wing

I ain't played with. I'm a product of that, so I always had the utmost appreciation for guys like that, and I'll always try to be that guy to the guys that come after me. And hopefully, I can help.

Like, Mo helped me, and we can continue this day road and so the fans give what they want. Until next time, that's a wrap. this episode of the Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis. We'll see him next time. Peace.