The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Favorites - QB Analysis with Jordan Palmer

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

Former NFL quarterback Jordan Palmer has become the go-to QB coach for prospective NFL starters, utilizing the knowledge he gained during his professional career to establish the elite training camp QB Summit, where his recent trainees have included Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and Trevor Lawrence, among many others. Palmer provides fascinating answers to Action hosts Chad Millman and Simon Hunter about players like Derek Carr and Russell Wilson, offers insight into why so many teams whiff at developing the position, and what it's like to be the greatest quarterback in the history of the UTEP Miners. #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hope-N-Y 467-369 in New York. Tennessee Redline is 1-800-889-9-9-8-8-8-9-9-8-8-2-4-70 in Wyoming or visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. Welcome to the favorites, the podcast from the Volume Podcast Network. I am Chad Milman, Chief Content Officer of the Action. network, there is no more important position in all of sports than quarterback in the NFL. My BFF, my companion, my compadre, Simon Hunter, professional better. How often are we talking about our belief in quarterbacks and whether or not we believe

we can win as betters on a particular quarterback? It's everything, right? We always talk all the time, Chad. It's either people undervaluing quarterbacks, overvaluing quarterbacks, and understanding quarterbacks get better depending on the system and the coach with them. So we talk all the time, brother. It's like if I'm looking for a big advantage, I can find it a lot of times in a quarterback that's underrated, which one of my favorite quarterbacks ever, Nick Foles, right quarterback, right situation, right system.

We saw what can happen. So I love talking QBs. Chad knows this. And especially NFL draft, I feel like me and you, especially because this show so main stream. That's what we talk about, right? Like that year with the five quarterbacks last year, that was everything. We talked about quarterbacks for about a month. So yeah, we get at NFL Pulse, people care about their football teams, but in the end, people care about the quarterbacks, like interchangeable because of fantasy football, maybe that's how it is. But like, why would I like

Tom Brady? Why would I like Aaron Rogers? I should hate those guys, but I like them. It's just, It's just different than other sports where we love the superstar quarterbacks. That's why I'm excited about today's guest. There is nobody more qualified to look into the mind, body, and soul of quarterbacks from the high school level to the college level to the pro level, former NFL player Jordan Palmer. He is an expert on the quarterback position, the man behind the elite training camp QB summit.

he's become the go-to coach for prospective NFL quarterbacks, including recently Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence, also unquestionably the greatest quarterback in the history of the U-TEP minors. U-TEP, of course, for everyone who listens to Big Bets on campus from the Action Network. Everyone knows how much we love the U-TEP minors. Jordan Palmer. Welcome to the show, brother. Thanks for having me.

Hey, man, I love when I hear some folks who are not within the border of El Paso who have some U-TEP love because that's few and far between. It's a, it's, we launched Action Network four years ago. And two of our most prominent college football analysts have been hosting a podcast this entire time that has gotten more and more popular. And it has a segment on there where people call in and leave voicemails, where they, where they complain about the picks they've made or they just complain about the bets that they've made themselves. And inevitably, there will be a string of voicemails from people who are really upset or really happy

or defending or feeling slighted because of their fandom or the best they've made on UTEP football. It is a constant theme every single season. We're talking Minor Nation. Out in the West Texas, town of El Paso, picks up. Oh, that is awesome. Well, they got a couple of, one, I like the direction that coach has it head,

and then they got a couple good young guys there. They're going to have to combat the whole NIL thing, because I don't know that U-TEPs ever going to be able to raise money to compete with any of these schools, so it might turn into a little bit of a, you know, a good player comes in, plays well in leaves, but doesn't mean they're not debtable. I have so many questions.

I know Simon has so many questions. because of your position as a QB guru, right? And you have worked with so many of these guys and seen how these guys develop over the years. But I want to go right off the bat. Like Simon and I did this exercise, I think it was in April, where we ranked our top 10 QBs to bet on.

And it wasn't necessarily based on stats. It wasn't based on sort of, of the record of a player. It was based on what we see in the final moments of a game when we're trying to make a decision. We did this with Colin Cowherd also. He was on the show talking about it. So for me, I thought about it from the perspective of who I do not want to be betting against in the fourth quarter. Simons was who can bounce back from a brutal pick six the best. And coward was emotional discipline on and off the field. So I'll put you on the spot right now. If you're thinking about a quarterback from a betting point of view, what is the characteristic

that you would like to see most as a better? Well, I just think in betting in general, right, if I could if I could predict the outcome of the game, I'd win money every time I place a bet, right? So if you back off of being able to predict things, okay we wouldn't be on here if you guys could literally predict what's going to happen um but you back out of being fully predictive um and like what's the level right before that and i just think that that it's somebody who's life and and that's honestly if colin said that i'd be shocked if our conversations hadn't somehow formed around that because i've always talked about how you live your life on the field and how you live your life off the field directly mirror each other uh with with

you know, notable quarterbacks. And I've had that conversation with him. And so for me, I look at like, who is, who's the same all the time? Who's the most predictable person on and off the field? And because there's really talented guys who are all over the map, right? Why do they throw that one, whether it was a touchdown or a pick, right? Like, where did you, how did you see that? And why did you throw that?

And, you know, why did you miss the meeting that we had the other day? And like, what bought that car to nowhere. And again, I'm a little more behind the scenes than the casual fan. But when I, I mean, I learned something a long time ago. I was playing with some receivers that you could classify as diva receivers. And a coach on the team, I threw a pick one time because it was on them. And the coach said, really important lesson, don't trust, untrust of these people. And it was like, oh, very simple.

And so when I think about it, whether it's betting, whether it's evaluating talent, like, who can I assume is going to be doing this? when I assume that he's going to be doing that. And so I think actually it's a combination of all three of your answers. It's somebody who's proven, whether it's the pick six analogy, somebody who's proven that adversity, they're unemotional about adversity. And if you're starting in the NFL, there's plenty of different examples we can look at whether you were or were not.

And then when it's somebody who's just the same all the time, like Russell Wilson, I don't know that I'd be best friends with them if we live next door to each other, but I can kind to tell you within pretty much certainty, like what he's doing this week. You know what I mean? I kind of know what he's going to do. I kind of know how he's going to handle being down at the end of the game. I kind of know how he's going to protect the lead up 10, right? Seven and a half point, like six and a half point line, whatever. So I just think I look at who's as predictable as possible. And to find that, you got to look at who they are on the field and off the field. I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad you said that because the,

The biggest discrepancy that Simon and I had in our top tens was Aaron Rogers and Russell Wilson. I had Russell Wilson ranked fifth. I had Rogers ranked eighth. Simon had Wilson eighth and Rogers ranked third. And my interpretation of what you just said fits having Wilson ranked higher. Yeah. I think Aaron, if you look at it off the field, is he going to show up to this thing? Is he not? I mean, and you can get tattoos if you want. It's all good.

But like that, poof out of nowhere, the love life. So it's just a lot of, you know, uncertainty surrounding him. The only consistency has really been the uniform from the start. Everything else has been a little different. And Russ has a new uniform too, but his routines the same. His approach is the same. approach is the same. His team around him is the same. I mean, this dude, I mean, I've heard all

sorts of numbers, but I've heard around a million bucks a year, what he invests on his body, his team, his full-time chef, his full-time everything. That just matters to me. I don't know if it matters to fans. I don't know if it matters to defenders, but when every single day is the same, when March is always the same and June is always the same, I just think you get similar results. And Russell just had his first bad year, you know, through it, for, through his, first eight seasons, nobody won more games. And also the lowest paid offensive line in the NFL, maybe an NFL history in the last two years, really, against the cap where it's right now. So he's just overcome so much. He's just kind of always the same thing. I actually think

Russ's best ball is ahead of him because he's never had control of the steering wheel or the puppet strings. And I think he has that right now. And so if you give him all that money, why not let, like this version of Russell Wilson go and then pull it back if you have to. But he always had a head coach GM who were way more established before he got there. I never had that. So with him, I think it's his best ball ahead of him. And with Aaron, I think this is his worst roster he's had around him offensively. And that division's getting better.

And then all I heard was that I'm right, you're wrong. I was just say, it's crazy, a guy who just won back-to-back MVP is just left for dead. That's why I just love this life we live, Chad. It's the best. I know. Awesome. I mean, he's MVP at 37 and 38. And I mean, so his best ball is not behind him.

If it's behind him, it's behind him the last two years, not like back in 96, you know. But, and I'm a huge Aaron Rogers fan. I think his best is as good as anybody that's ever played the game. And so, but in answering your question, I think in terms of predicting these things, that's why, like, all of a sudden, like, man, Aaron played bad in the, what was the NFC championship or whatever? You know what? It's like, you're like caught off guard when he has a bad game. Like Mahomes' AFC championship second half, you're like, what is happening right now?

Because we're just used to seeing a really consistent level of play out of the best ones. And even the MVP and top three, top four player or whatever in the league in Mahomes are like, are capable of having a bad half or a bad game. And my whole, our basically the whole point of that little exercise was just ATS. Like who's the best quarterback we trust ATS? So that's why I was giving Chad a hard time just because Rogers, I don't. what I'm getting. I bet him all regular season. He covers all regular season. And then I fade him at home in the playoffs. And every time Rogers chokes at home. So that's why I get what you guys are going with it. Chad, Chad, trying to trick you. Don't let him trick you. I had Rogers top five.

He didn't have him. I've been giving him shit about it because I think he's taking the vaccine thing too far. Don't hate him because he's a liar. Think about on field, Chad, on field Rogers. It's all part of it, Simon. It all speaks to what Jordan is talking about. It speaks to emotional consistency. But he's got back-to-back MVP's like he's doing it on the field. That's just that's my thing. It's like, yeah, if he was Johnny Johnny football over here,

I'd be like, yeah, Rogers got some shit going on lately getting this tattoo and changing new girlfriends every other week. But it seems like he's just a wild dude. He can keep his shit together on the field. Yeah, I think football has always made sense to him. I think that's home. for him, you know, those lights on, the bigger the moment. I just, I just don't think Devante Adams is an interchangeable piece.

I agree. But, Jordan, I was thinking, like, who was the first person that hit you up to become a QB coach? Is that something you always know you wanted to do? Or did you just like kind of thing where it was like, you know, my kid is, you know, my kids is the number one recruit come out of high school. I know you from playing with you back a day. I reach out to you, like, hey, you come work with my kid here in Southern California. and you were like, holy shit, I kind of like doing this.

This is a cool gig improving these kids' dreams. No, I mean, for me, it actually started when I was really little. Have you guys read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? Yes, yes. So I feel like I'm a chapter out of there because a couple things happened that had nothing to do with me. One, I did not choose for my brother to be Carson Palmer. Now, fans and betters may have opinions around who Carson Palmer is, but I've worked with

a couple of number one picks, probably 25 first rounders. half the starters in the league one way or another. I kind of know everybody. He's the best example of how to do it. Remove bias. I mean, the people, the way you treated, the dudes in the locker room, the work ethic and the way he rehabbed his knee,

the talent, like they were going to start liner at his senior year. They were going to give him one or two games to go. And his response was, Heisman Trophy number one pick. Like the way he bounced back and not no, got very limited credit for what he actually did. So I can just go on and on.

So one, that dude's four and a half years older than me. So that was the example that I had. Okay. So one, that happened. Two, my high school coach, Bob Johnson, Rob Johnson, his father, trained Carson starting when Carson was in seventh grade. So I was sitting on my football watching him in third grade. And this is like the first guy to like charge money for private quarterback lessons.

Like that wasn't an industry. This is like mid early 90s. And so Bob Johnson then created with a few other. folks with Andy Bark and student sports created Elite 11, which Elite 11 is like, I think like 88% of the quarterbacks on NFL rosters last year went through Elite 11. There's like a bunch of crazy stats. I don't remember them, but Elite 11's been around 25 years. My dad read about that in a magazine and dropped me off as a sixth grader. Drew Breeze was going into his junior year. David Carr was going into his sophomore year, right? So, and I haven't missed one since. So I was a college counselor at

U-Tip when little Maddie Stafford and Timmy Tebow were the high school kids. So I've really actually seen everybody go through this. And again, I didn't pick that. So there's really two things where I've grown up, I think, around quarterback training. I just, I'd love to have a discussion with whoever thinks number two is or whoever thinks if anything is number one is because I'd love to, not to compare, but like, I just haven't met anybody who's been around it like me. And even Eli Manning, the younger brother of Peyton doesn't know what it's like to be.

be six round pick, cut right away, signed an arena deal, bounce around, like, you know what I mean? He kind of live the same life as paid. And so it's super unique to get both sides of the perspective of I know what it's like to win a highest could be the number one pick. When Carson retired, he was the highest paid player in NFL history. You can say what you want about his career, but it would pretty good. And then mine to bounce around and hang on and whatever. And so I've got this unique perspective. So I had always been around it. I'd always been working with guys. And then a, uh, uh, a, uh, a, um, a, um, a, um, a, a, Trevor Moad, who's one of my best buddies.

He passed away last year. He's a performance psychologist. He's the sports psychologist. He's been working with Russell Wilson for the last 10 years. He wrote a book called It Takes What It Takes. And another one called Getting to Neutral. And so at the time, Trevor was running exos, which was like the predominant place for guys to train for the draft.

And he said, I was playing for the bears at the time. And he said, Trent Dillfer, a couple of people told me that, you know, you're the guy. we want to have you come in and do draft training. And I was, I didn't even really remember what draft training was because I just did it with my high school coach with Bob Johnson. I don't know. I don't know what everybody else was doing.

And so they gave me a little bit of money. Let me eat there for free, train for free, which is expensive. When you're in the NFL, you don't watch college football because you're busy. The last thing I'm doing is watching some random college game in season. And so I had no idea who Blake Bortals was. UCF, like they have a quarterback who's good, right? And so they said, this kid's coming in today to meet with you. And I said, listen, I don't know a whole lot about the draft.

The running people are great. The lifting people were great. All that stuff. I just know what you're probably going to need to know. So once I figure out what you know already, I'll teach you the rest of it. And we became boys. He went third overall. We didn't see it coming.

And I'm in the green room in New York with him for the second time. I've been there as a little brother. And I'm like, this shit is awesome. I want to do this. And so it's really just been like a cute. you won January, February, March commitment, which is now turned into a real thing. This year, I think I'll have 10 receivers and past, or past catchers, because I'll take receivers running backs and tight ends and four to six quarterbacks.

And I don't, I'm not competing against other people that do what I do. I don't know how you score it and how to win. I'm not trying to be number one. I'm just in the service industry, and I figure out a way to really serve these guys. Sometimes it's helping them physically. Sometimes it's on the mental side more. And honestly, sometimes it's on the emotional side more. these kids need to grow up.

They need to, maybe they, there's been times when I've been the first, like, real man to say something like that to them in their life. And so whatever the role ends up being, I've been able to build an amazing team around me and can really serve these kids where they're at. I love how you talk about your brother, because so often that kind of relationship can become so poisonous because there is jealousy involved. and the way I've seen you talk about over the years has just been you've never gotten that sense at all. Your brother also has, I was editor-in-chief of ESP in the magazine for years before leaving to launch action.

And we had a writer at ESPN named David Fleming who did a lot of stories with your brother, a lot of feature stories in the magazine over the years. And he had, Carson had one of my favorite quotes we ever had in the magazine. He was so accurate with his ball and knew he was so accurate. that when he was working with a receiver, it might have been Ocho Cinco. Ocho Cinco said he was going to be running a certain pattern. And your brother asked him, which nipple do you want the ball on? Like that's how pinpoint accurate he could be.

That's Mac Jones right now. He's a which nipple quarterback. That was the first time I'd ever seen. And now it's happening more. I'm sure it's happening in other places too. but you go weeks and practicing games about missing weeks weeks I mean I'm going like eight throws in a row without missing 10 throws in a row it's going to go weeks and I just so it was funny the reason I've never had any jealousy I can can honestly say that is um with him I didn't know

growing up playing catch I just thought that's what everyone's older brother through it like right so it actually messed with my confidence because there was such a gap could I, between what I could do, between what I could do and he could do. And I just assumed what he was doing was normal. And so it wasn't until, and he was the top recruit in the country and all that stuff, but it wasn't really until I got to, like, high school and I'd go throw at the SC guys, and the other three quarterbacks would show up. No disrespect to John Fox, Mike Van Rapphorst, or some of these other guys.

And I go, oh, he's like twice as good as the guys on his team. And then all of a sudden somebody else would show up like somebody from UCLA, Kay McNown or somebody would show up to a workout. And I go, oh, he's like twice as good as everybody else. And I didn't have context for it. You know, I threw with him and I threw with my high school guys or whatever. And then Bob Johnson would have these workouts

and you'd get these other quarterbacks in from colleges who came in to work with Bob Johnson. And it was like, oh, he's four times better than Cody Pickett from Washington. Oh, okay. And that guy's, or Marcus Tuias de Sosopo. Oh, okay, that makes more sense now. So I didn't really have context for it. And then by the time I did, I was just so proud of all the stuff he'd overcome and what he was doing,

I was legitimately such a big fan that just jealousy never came into the mix. I've been jealous of plenty of other people, but just never him. And also, once I found out that, like, that's what he was born to do. And I was actually, like, born to do other things, then I got really comfortable with that gap. And our relationship, I mean, I'm in Lake Tahoe, we're on Lake all day yesterday. our relationship's been incredible and now I train his 13 year old Fletch who's kind of might be a real one. How much of a QB success is being drafted into the right situation? I ask that, A, because you see it all the time.

B, specifically I think about the Bears, we've talked about Mitch Trubisky and like in retrospect, if he's not with the Bears at that time, is he a different player? So how much of that makes the quarterback? I actually think it's everything. Because if you want to figure out if he's a real one or not, right? Because if you put a really good quarterback in a terrible situation, I still don't know. Right. So let's let's throw some names down here.

Okay. So in full transparency, I know all these guys, but I spend, but I really, it's hard for me to really remove bias. So even if you, even if you go, Jordan's biased towards Sam Darnold because I've known him since he was 14. There's still some facts here. Okay. Like I don't know about Sam. I still believe he's a great and if not a starter, a high level starter in this league. Because if you look at the entry point, okay, in his situation, so he goes to New York, right?

There's Josh McCown, but that's about it. It's the staff on their last, you know, the GM of the head coach are on their way out. Okay. and the new staff comes in. And I couldn't think of a worse setup. Adam Gase, the offense that he runs, the way that he does it. I'm not saying a worse person. I'm just, I don't even know Adam Gase.

I'm just saying how he's had success with quarterbacks versus what Sam, I think, needs to be able to succeed. Like, those are opposites. Okay. So however that played out, like, we're going to win with confusion pre-snap and have all these different things. I don't know if that's the way, right? Plus the personnel on those teams.

okay like the wide receiver room i mean it's it's as bad as it gets okay so then you go to carolina last year you go okay cool fresh start and they start off three and o and mcalfrey goes down they fire the OC week five but and then at that point when they bench sam last year they were at on a pace to shatter the NFL record for drop passes no one talked about that they were robbie auntie was number one rhodson was number one DJ was like number four and chuba hubber was like number one non-receivers and drops. Right? So you just go like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,

like one after another after another in this situation. And actually in the game when Sam Donald got benched, they were down 11 at New York. They're down 11 and there's like a handful of minutes left. The week before, when they were down 11, he drove 90 yards versus Minnesota. DJ drops a touchdown. They kick a field goal.

He drives 90 yards as three fourth down conversions on that play. And the scene that he threw to the middle of the tumble was one of the top five throws of the year, in my opinion. Okay. Scores a touchdown goes for two, gets it, goes to overtime, Minnesota drives on the field and scores the touchdown wins a game.

And the next week, they're down 11 and they pull him. Same setup. Dude, you know, so, like, I look at a guy like Sam Narnold, and I go, I mean, put him in any of these others, you know what I mean?

Like, put him in a situation where they build it around him. I think he's on his second deal, right? And then there's guys that go to the perfect. spot. Like Mahomes, they built it right around him right away. Josh, what Brandon Bean and co did around Josh Allen and Buffalo. And by the way, not right away. Kelvin Benjamin was Josh Allen's number one target, his rookie year. They were not good. Brandy Bean did not take over an awesome franchise that was on the way up. They built it. But the balls to go and take Josh and go

about that process the way they did and then to build it around him and go get Mitch Morse, the center who was with Mahomes, and then go get these pieces. And we can, you know, we can talk about trading for Stefan Diggs, but that was, that was just an example of a belief system they had to build it around the quarterback to go get stepped in. Right. And so I just look at, I look at guys like, if you take this quarterback who succeeded and you put him in this bad situation, is he picking up his option? And then you put this quarterback who everyone thinks is a bust, and you put him in a great situation, and it's like, did he get paid two years ago? And I just don't know. And so we know we can trust our eye. When we see Patrick Mahomes, a great player, go to a great

organization that builds around him, poof, we know what that looks like. We're not confused by it. But where people get confused is when a quarterback who's really good goes and really struggles in a bad situation, and we automatically assume that that's that player. So my last thing I'll say is overwhelmingly, completely opposite sides of the spectrum here, teams whiff on developing the quarterback way more than that quarterback is just a bust. And it's not even close in my opinion. This baseball season turned K's into cash and big hits into big wins with Fandul's sportsbook. Right now, new customers can step up to the plate with a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000. So just sign up, place your first bet, and Fanduil will give you up to $1,000 back in free bets if you don't win.

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Jordan, I think you're going to back me up here. This is a gambling show at its core. And to me, I'm always looking for edges. I'm looking for long shots.

And me and chat on the show have talked many times about the second, third year quarterback. That is the biggest edge a better will get in football. Mahomes MVP year, 50 to 1, open the season. Lamar MVP season. Again, second year, 50 to 1. We saw last year, huge leap for Joe Burrow, took 150 to 1 team to the Super Bowl. This year, my team is the Jaguar. Simple fact, Trevor Lawrence.

I have a guy, everyone's out on Trevor Lawrence. After just one year, the number one pick, just because he had such bad coaching last year, they're sitting at 125 to 1 to win the NFL championship. He's at 75 to 1 to get MVP, Trevor Lawrence. Am I not, I'm in the right line of thinking here, right? Thinking Doug Peterson, whole new offensive scheme, would you back this kind of view with Trevor Lawrence where you could see him taking a huge leap year, too, just the right coaching and the right scheme built around him because the town's there?

100%. I mean, I don't know that a rookie has dealt with more, you know, than he dealt with. Because we've all heard the stories, but you know how it is. That's what? 30% of the stuff that actually happened, 20%. I, you know what I mean? I'm not even coming from an insider. I'm just saying, that's just how the league works. So very few people have dealt with more. And on top of that, dealt with more negativity off of the amount of positivity he's dealt with. This guy's never really lost. He played for a high school coach that he loved and respected. He played for Davoswini, who he loved and respected. He stepped into a winning culture in high school.

He stepped into a winning culture in college, and he added to that winning culture. And then he went to an absolute dunkster fire. And so it's not just how bad the situation was. It's the lack of experience that he had dealing with a bad situation. Like, Trevor, how do you deal with a coach that you don't trust? Don't know, never done it. Right. So, like, when you look at it from that perspective, he had to overcome the most.

I was impressed with how he played. I mean, again, I coach the guy or whatever. I'm impressed with how he's played because what he's managed, the talent around him, that team, you know, I just, I thought it was impressive. And I think they're definitely poised to turn this thing down around a lot quicker than people think. Now, that roster is not necessarily where the chiefs were his second year. And that roster is not where the Ravens were in Lamar's second year. But this roster is not where it was last year either. And I think Christian Kirk, people can ooh and awe about the money and say what they want.

But he's, to talk about predictable. I know, I've known him since high school as Kyle Allen, a guy I've worked with forever. It's his best friend since he was little. Been around Christian since he was four foot six. And that guy's the same thing every single day. All he's trying to do is get open and the way he approaches the game. So I like that, like, but that's the right, like, that's the right guy to pay to bring into that room as you bring in young receivers moving forward. And they go, okay, that's how I'm supposed to train.

That's how I'm supposed to approach the game. So between Doug, between some of the off-season moves that they made, and, you know, whichever, he knows how to build it. And he knows how to, he knows what success looks like. I think it's a better way to say that. And so I think they have the leadership that they need and they have no expectations. And I think that when you put people who've been there and done, that. Doug's won a Super Bowl. Trevor's won a national title. A couple other guys have won at a high level. When you put them in there with no expectations and they get to operate in secrecy out in

Jacksonville, I've played there. Nobody, nobody's paying attention. Then you can turn things around really quickly. What about a guy like Jalen Hertz? It's another team. Everyone is talking about this team as having higher expectations. This is a year that he has to prove it. He's been given weapons around him, do you look at a guy like that and say, okay, he's got the skill set if he's, if the right people are around him to take the leap? Yeah, I do. But at the same time, I'll say this, like we're going to be able to, I think, come to a conclusion on Jalen Hertz at the end of this year. You give him this, it's kind of like Baker last, you know, you look at Baker, whose Baker's played with. His whole line went to the Pro Bowl. There's like

seven out of nine guys have gone to the pro, you know, like you look around it, you go, he's had talent around him. Jalen's got that now, right? Offense and defense. Secondary is a little questionable, but for Jalen, for me, the weapons around him, this is, I don't know if it's make or break, but we're going to be able to come to a consensus at the end of this season. And he's shown that he's a playmaker. And let's just, I'll talk about this for a second. The difference between putting the ball in play and being a playmaker in high school football, right?

Do the elite 11, all these elite camps, all this stuff. You can become a five-star and get offers and all that stuff off of your playmaking ability. in college to have success, you've got to make plays, and you also have to put the ball in play and kind of take what they give you. The NFL is about putting the ball in play. And I haven't seen Tom Brady make a play in a decade. Now, dropping dimes is not making a play, right? Run, jump over this guy, whip one 60 yards across your body.

That's making a play. Brady doesn't do it. Doesn't need to do it because he puts the ball in play so consistently that he doesn't need to do that. And so my thing that I'm excited to watch on Jalen is, is he evolved, is, has he evolved into a guy who's going to build his game off of putting the ball in play? And you'd think that that's easier than making a play. And it's not because I think quarterbacks, they get really good at what they need to do to survive. And if you've survived by being a playmaker, stop, start, cut back, drop a dime in there, make an amazing throw.

I just think if that's the foundation of your game, and you and you would you're more likely to make a play than just go through your progression with timing and accuracy and consistent footwork. If that's the case, I think you're going to lose in the playoffs to somebody who does. And I think that's like Lamar Jackson is another example of that.

Josh, that's where he evolved. Josh, I was a playmaker who has learned Brian Daible, Ken Dorsey, all these people who've been in the room with him. Josh has gone from a playmaker who's learned how to put the ball in play and make a play when he needs to. That's where this this game is at right now.

And my question on Jalen Hertz is, is can he, can the foundation of his game be putting the ball in play and making plays when he needs to? If not, then I think that we're going to continue to, we're going to continue to question Jalen. So two guys, you mentioned making a play and putting the ball in play. Nobody exemplifies that more than Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen. And you said, you've said in the past, you've worked with Josh Allen, that he is the best. athlete to play the quarterback position. Explain that. Well, I mean, it's not, it's not like, here's my personal opinion. I just, if you look at the strongest arms, he's at the top of the list or he's whatever. I don't know how you rank him anyways, right? So he's top, top couple arms ever.

Older guys who know what they're talking about would agree, right? And then, you know, I don't care about 40 times much, but he's clearly one of the best runners in the league. There's something that nobody's talked about this whole offseason. I got to look up the guy's name. He trucked a linebacker from the Chiefs. He knocked him out of the game. And then three plays later, he's running down the sideline. And Sorensen, the safety, who's the hard-hitting safety from the Chiefs, turned him down.

On the sideline, three plays later. Nobody talks about that, right? We've seen hurdle people, truck people. We've seen the stiff arm. He's cut back a million times. He's got a spin move. He can use his blockers. He's a runner.

He's a dynamic run threat. nobody's saying let's just not let him beat us with his arm let's make him beat us with his legs no because he's going to beat you with your legs so from a runner from his from an explosiveness standpoint the stop the start and he's 250 he's not 206 and people say well michael vicks faster michael vick was six foot 190 whatever he was you know what i mean these guys some of these guys are little Josh is massive Josh is the biggest quarterback in the league probably i'd have to you'd have to like give me a name right here But anybody who's remotely as close to the size of him does not run like him. And so I just look at the arm, the explosiveness, and not just being fast.

There's fast guys who aren't great runners. There's guys that aren't that fast that are great runners. Blake Vortals ran 4-9 at the Combine. He led all NFL quarterbacks in rushing two years in a row because he knows how to run, knows when to cut back. He sees the field. And I've been around fast guys. Another quarterback I played with in Jacksonville, Blaine Gabbard, is super fast,

but we just never really saw him rip off 60-yarders. And so I just look at Josh and the whole piece. I go, yeah, I mean, it's an open conversation, you know, with whoever the other names are. But I said this to the Atlanta podcast, but like, but you can't compare him and Cam Newton. That's what people want to do. And I go, as a thrower, you just, I don't,

I don't want to sit here and beat up on Cam, but you're, you're not, those aren't the two, those two aren't the same thing. Yeah, couldn't agree more. I was being Chad to talk to. this off season about who is the best quarterback in football. And I got a little heat from it for saying it was Josh Allen. People were like, what is he done? And I just took it from the standpoint of I'm just talking about the pure position.

Like this guy is the best athlete to play the position. Like you just said, he can outrun people. And if he needs to, you can run through him. The guy he knocked down that game was actually Honey Badger for the Chiefs. So that's, he's just a freak. And I'm looking at the business just now. And I'm actually just thinking about what your view is on Derek Carr. Like me and chat are kind of not the big.

fan boys. We love Derek Carr. We gave him out last year 40 to 1 to lead the league in passing. Sounded crazy. He almost got there. I think he finished fourth. This year, you know, being chatting at either of us have him in our top 10, but we have him right outside of it. Like, we think Derek Carr is right there. Do you think what the weapons he has this year? He's going to be back to that MVP form he was all those years ago with Amory Cooper? I do. I do. I'm a big Derek Car fan. And this is the thing. Who has dealt, which quarterback has dealt with more BS outside of their control. Like I'm asking me, who else has dealt with in the last three years more BS? Think about it like this too. When you have AB, when you sign AB in the

Aussies, it's not even that you're counting on a great player, whatever. It's that everything that you've talked about and designed is around that, whether he's opening up this guy, whether he's going to get it. Like your whole philosophy of what you believe is going to work for this year was taken away from them in training camp in a, I mean, just unbelievable fashion. Burn the house down on your way out and you're on hard knocks and all the, I mean, who is, like, that's, that's your, whether you, whether Derek even liked A.V. Doesn't matter. Like, that's what you scheme the whole offense around, right? Like, all of your meetings have been about this. And then poof, it's gone and it's irreparable.

And it's way too late to get anybody else in here. It's freaking August. So, like, to deal with that. And then nonstop, now I have a lot of quarterbacks deal with this, but like the whole narrative for five years has been one of the Raiders is going to draft their quarterback, right? Now, a lot of people deal with that. So I'm not, that's not specific to Derek. But, and then, so then, then you have the Gruden stuff. Then you have the rugs stuff.

Then you have, like, it's just been one thing after another. And like, he barely lost Joe Burrow on the playoffs. You know what I mean? On the road and just strung it together in the last game versus the charger. So I just, I'm just a fan kind of like waiting for like, when's he going to catch a break? And boy, is it certainly look like this could be the year between Renfro being locked up, Devante coming in. So I think Derek Carr has a breakout year.

And what's crazy is the first year that he went off, when he broke his leg in Mexico City versus I think Houston, the stats that season, he had arrived, right? He signed a hundred plus million dollar deal. Everyone was on the Derek car chain. And then they were off of it. The next two seasons, he had better stats. he was better the following two seasons than he was the year that we were all excited about. But it's just like that's the narrative, right?

And so maybe it's because he's kind of dorky. Maybe it's because he wears his religion on his swing or on his sleeve or maybe it's because he doesn't wear sleeves, right? He's all gunned up. I don't know, but people just find it really easy to hate on this guy. But I'll tell you what, man, I got a lot of friends in Raider Nation. And a lot of them, they ask me that question. And I give the answer and they go, good, because that's what I think too. You know what I mean?

Like I think that's like the sentiment at Raider Nation. And boy, do I hope he has an awesome year. And I'll tell you what, if he, if this year, if they win that division or come in second in that division and go to the playoffs, everybody needs to shut up coming out of that division. He beat, if he ends up first or second in that division this year, it ain't going to be because the run game because of the defense. And they've whiffed on defensive picks too. I forgot about that.

They've completely botched picks. So he's, you know what I mean? Like empty handed here. And so, yeah, I think Derek. car, you know, I would put him ahead at guys like Murray. If Murray's on your list, Derek wouldn't be number three, but he'd be on my list for sure. Yeah, there's 7 to 1 right now in Las Vegas to win the AFC West, so pretty good odds there.

I like that. That AFC West is so interesting because, and I'd like to get your opinion on this, the Chiefs let Tyree hit Tyreek, he'll go in a trade. people are still favoring the chiefs to win the division based on Mahomes, based on Andy Reid, based on the other weapons they have. You look at this. You just mentioned, you know, three seasons ago, Antonio Brown, that's the plan. He disappears in training camp.

When you lose a weapon like Tyree Kill, the chiefs don't win that AFC title game last year against the bills. I mean, the AFC playoff game against the bills without Tyree Kill making the plays from Patrick Mahomes, how much just something like that impact the team that isn't being accounted for in these odds in the AFC West? I think it's massive. I think the two plays in the AFC West are the Broncos and the Raiders. I haven't, the Chargers haven't proven me that they're winners yet.

And I know you got, you can, because we look, we look at rosters, right? Chargers might be a top three roster, right? Especially if Derman Healthy, he hasn't even played yet, right? He might be one of the best. I'll tell you what NFL guys think German James is one of the best defensive. of players in the league. That's what NFL players think, right? He didn't even played yet, right? So you look at that roster, but they had that roster last year for the most part. They haven't really shown, I don't know, I just, I don't, I haven't seen that. I don't

know how to say it, like they're not winners because they've won a bunch of games, but I just haven't seen that yet, right? Even in Herbert in college, I haven't seen that yet, right? That like, killer instinct, win by all. I've seen it out of my homes already. I've seen it a ton out of Russell Wilson. I've seen it out of Derek Carr with a lesser roster figured out and be there in the end. I just haven't seen it with the Chargers. And to your point, Terry Kill is not a receiver.

He's not a good receiver. He's one of three people in the NFL who can score from any place on the field at any time. Those guys are not interchangeable, right? I just don't like, in my opinion, it's Jamar Chasin and Alvin Camara. And it's like, those guys aren't regular players, right? when a guy can at any point score a touchdown. And there's just, I think there's only three.

Like can make six people miss and score a touchdown. Then that's not an interchangeable piece. I know I watched a video of you talking about Josh Allen, in which you would text him things like, you know, congrats on being a Pro Bowl alternate and try to goad him a little bit because you know that's what motivates him. of the quarterbacks you've coached, who manages and responds to that kind of trash talk and feedback the best?

Well, I think it's case by case. And I don't know if it's more like, I think that got turned into, here's how I motivate him. And really it was just like, here's how I talk trash from my friend. And I know the response it's going to get. But, I mean, probably my brother in that case. yeah just over the years because it's not like a coat i mean i you train with me for a couple years at the end i wouldn't say coach my brother but um

but just knowing that the right little things to because we grew up golfing and doing stuff you know and so like kind of knew what could get under each other's skin but also knew if you get the other guy going you know what i mean and so i'd have to really think about some examples but um but yeah definitely my brother just because that that was the rapport and nobody talks more trash to my brother. Sometimes it's funny. Sometimes it's sarcastic. Sometimes it's like if it's a big time put and it's for the win, sometimes it's really true shit that he said. You know what I mean? So he knows how to, you know, strum those strings. And so I think I learned from him and I've given it back to him over the years. Quickly, before we let you go, I want to talk about college

football for a second because you're obviously looking at a lot of college football quarterbacks. already a lot of talk about what this class looks like. Do you have thoughts on not who the best quarterbacks are that we're already talking about, but who are some of the quarterbacks that we should be thinking about as betters, running teams that maybe aren't as sort of in the public eye, but their quarterbacks are good enough to keep games close. Yeah. I mean, obviously there's the three guys at the top, you know, C.J. Stroud,

look, you're going to bet Ohio State, however you bet. state. Same thing with Bama, with Bryce. Kentucky's a little different because Will Levis, I think, is going to have a chance to be a really high pick, maybe the top pick, we'll see. But losses OC, losses wide out, it's in the SEC. So that's one of those, you know, superstar player. We'll see how the team ends up being and how much they can carry them. If it's in a lesser conference, then a great quarterback can just carry that team all the way through. In the SEC, that's not necessarily the case. If you can't stop somebody, you can't stop somebody kind of thing.

But a couple other names that, I think those three guys would be great pros. A couple other names that come to mind. One is Cameron Rising from Utah. People got finally got a chance to see him play last year versus Ohio State in that shootout. Cam Rising is a baller. He's a great playmaker.

As I talked about earlier, putting the ball in play and making plays. And I think he's really accurate with deep balls, which in college football is a lot, big part of the game. Another guy is, Devin Leary from NC State, North Carolina State, fifth year senior, highly recruited kid, and boy, it's just all clicking for him. He's got a stud wide receiver. He's got a really good coach.

He can rip it as good as anybody in the country. And he's been at Manning, and he's been at Manning. I was out of Manning with him and like 40 college guys. I was at the Elite 11 with him and a couple with Bryce and C.J. And some of these guys, and he can spend as good as anybody in the country. And so there's a not a long. shot, but there's a good, like, follow the wolf pack here this year. And then the third one is, this is who I love, is University of Houston, Clayton Toon. So Houston is kind of like Cincinnati.

They've kind of won like nine or ten games a few years in a row. Dana Holgerson has had some really good quarterbacks. He's had some really good receivers. This might be his best quarterback and his best receiver he's had. Tank Dell, a little tiny whiteout, who's, I mean, just electric. He might be one of the best playmakers in college football this year that nobody knows about. Little guy number one. And so Houston is another team to watch. And I like, you know, when I look at it from the betting landscape, I like the school that nobody cares about outside of that fan base that like should be way better than people

think largely because of quarterback play. Like I said with Will Levis, sometimes no matter how good the quarterback is when you're on an SEC team, if you're not, if it's not close on special teams and D-line and secondary, then it can get it ugly. But at a lower level, you can win 11 games just off good quarterback play, right? Because you can outscore people. That's what I think of. It's Houston.

They're going to pick off where Cincinnati left off. I've worked with a dozen minutes the last few years, so I've got a chance to kind of see that, learn that conference better. And Houston has all the writing on the wall to have one of those teams where people don't really pay attention to Houston and all of a sudden, you know, they don't lose so they don't lose or they don't lose

until a big-time bowl game. Jordan, I feel like the biggest takeaway from this will probably be, I was right about Russell Wilson and Simon was wrong. So for that alone, I appreciate you coming on the favorites podcast from the volume podcast network, Jordan Palmer, QB Summit, QB Guru, Extraordinaire. Thank you so much for Simon Hunter, for Matt Mitchell. I am Chad Millman. download us from Apple Podcasts from Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Rate, review, subscribe, leave us five stars,

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