The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 1 - Ben Johnson is missed in Detroit, the Broncos will be fine under Sean Payton

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Colin previews the Cowboys-Lions game tonight and explains why the Lions are having so many issues this season  Colin also defends the Denver Broncos’ string of narrow victories, arguing that their late-game formula is sustainable under head coach Sean PaytonSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey, Jonas, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.

And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are?

I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is,

getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcasts.

Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the Iheart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. We're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. Cowboys playing a night against the Detroit Lions.

Greg Coasell, one hour from now to break it all down. What's wrong with Detroit? What is right with Dallas? Maybe in L.A. next week in Chicago today. It's the herd, wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. I and J. Mack both like Dallas tonight. I think Dallas wins by a touchdown or more tonight.

I think a lot of the NFL is trends and which way you're headed. I think Dallas is headed in the right direction, playing with a ton of confidence. healthier than they've been all season. So you and I agree on that. Let's just start with it. So the Cowboys over under wind total to start the year was seven and a half. I said bet the under.

Detroit's was 10 and a half. 10 and a half, I said bet the under. And here we are week 14. They're pretty much the same. But I think I'd rather be Dallas. I do. I like where they're trending. And everybody's telling me it's

injuries. Or it's the Frank Ragnow retirement. Or it's Jared Goff. You want to know why Detroit's not as good? They lost Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator. Now he's the coach of the Bears, and the Bears are looking down at the Lions. That's it. It's almost impossible. It's not hard. It's really impossible to replace brilliance. I remember Nike 2004 Phil Knight steps down as CEO. Nike. one of one, a powerhouse, immediately starts losing market share to Adidas. Here comes Phil. He comes back. We all know the story of Steve Jobs.

Left Apple. Apple was a powerhouse. They begged to have him back 10 years later. It's hard to replace excellent people. I think Ben Johnson's different. I mean, what a shock. Suddenly the Bears are as good as any team in the league running the football. They weren't last year.

And suddenly now the lions are horrible on third. How with that offensive line? How would Jemir Gibbs with a veteran quarterback? How? They're good at tight end, wide receiver. How? Because they lost Ben Johnson. That's it.

I remember when Washington, you remember this, had Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, and Matt LaFlewer in the building with Washington. They were making the playoffs. Those guys left. I mean, it wasn't until last year. For one year that the regression stopped. Now they're bad again. You just can't replace McVeigh and Shanahan on a staff, arguably the two best coaches in a league after Andy Reid.

And I'll die on this hill. The greater the talent you lose, the wider the search has to be. You lose Jim Harbaugh, Michigan. You can't go in-house. You lose Ben Johnson. You can't go in-house. The bigger the shoes I have to fill, the more feet I need to see. and when I watch the Lions, it's not Frank Ragnow.

It's not Amaran St. Brown is banged up. It's not Jared Goff doesn't have mobility. He didn't have it the previous three years. They're just not quite as clever and not quite as unique. Even among really good people, Jerry Jones said, Dak is irreplaceable. Mike is great, but replaceable. And Mike is really good.

He leaves. Dallas is now second and need. NFL and pressures. It's like, we're actually better without Micah because we got some draft picks and made some deals. But, but, I mean, Miami still looking to find the next Marino. How many quarterbacks they had? 40?

I mean, literally Denver to replace Elway, had to go get an old Peyton Manning. So it's just, it's the Lions lost an all-time offensive coordinator, an all-time guy. And I love Dallas tonight. nothing quite feels the same when I watch them. The players are great. It's not injuries.

They've been injury plagued previous years. It's not the GM. He's great. They just lost an all-timer. Who's now with the Bears? So I saw a story this morning, and it said the Broncos are the second NFL team in history to win four straight games by three points or less.

People are basically saying what Denver is doing is not sustainable. You can't keep winning in the fourth quarter like Denver is doing. And I would say, no, that's absolutely sustainable. What's not sustainable is when the Patriots went 10 years without winning a Super Bowl and those Randy Moss years when you're scoring 50 and winning by three touchdowns. They didn't win a Super Bowl that year. Every other Super Bowl, Belichick and Brady were in in New England, all but one were one-possession games. For the record, Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback ever in one-possession games.

68% of games. 68% in one score games. By the way, highest winning percentage when trailing in the fourth quarter the last two seasons, Andy Reed and Sean Payton. So don't tell me it's Mahomes

because none of you like Bo Nix. It's the coach. Football has always been a game of inches. I go back to the New England dynasty. Winning close is totally sustainable. The New England dynasty, the two things that always jump out, Belichick and Brady are, they never fumbled.

Honest to God, I was in New England at the time. They never fumbled, and they were always way above average on special teams. They didn't lead the league in sacks very often. They didn't lead the league in touchdowns very often. When I look at Denver, it's absolutely coaching and details. For instance, few as sacks allowed. That's coaching. How do I know that's coaching?

Because Caleb Williams last year was the most sack quarterback. This year he's one of the least sacks. They change coaches. Right? So, like, it is coaching and demanding, not pandering. Bow necks, not a big strong guy breaking tackles from defensive ends. He doesn't get sacked. His dad was a coach.

He takes to coaching, Sean Payton. They're also great on third down defense. Why? That's situational coaching. Red zone defense, situational coaching. And so, when I, I look at New England's dynasty. It was all about details.

I don't know how many times they led the NFL in total offense. I would wager it wasn't as many as you think. I don't know how many times they led the league in touchdowns by the Randy Moss years. They didn't win Super Bowles. So I've always thought like Andy Reid, Sean Payton. In fact, I looked this morning at the top five, last two years, the top five winning percentages, winning its coaches in one score games. it's all offensive coaches.

No Mike Tomlin up there. It's all offensive coaches. So to me, this idea that what Denver's doing is not sustainable. I love NBA teams and baseball teams

and pro football teams that win close. I think it builds character. It builds unity. Winning by blowouts, that's not sustainable. If you're doing that in the NFL, you're probably doing doing it because you have a really good rookie quarterback on a rookie deal, and then when you have to

eventually pay him and have to get rid of stars, you're not winning by that. That's not sustainable. You don't see NFL teams going four years blowing people out. You rarely get a year like that. But winning close, Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Tom Brady, totally sustainable to me. Being good on third down offensively. Not getting sacked a lot. That's coaching. That's sustainable. Here's Sean Payton on the way Denver's winning. I hate losing more than anything like in the world. And so I think fear of failure is a very significant motivating factor. From a detail standpoint, and, you know, there's nothing that's too small that's not significant.

and that has to exist outside the lines as well. Yeah, I mean, I think highly organized people don't need wide margins, right? Highly organized people don't need wide margins. I can read about a pro athlete that can't retire on $100 million, and I'm like, well, I know school teachers that have retired on one and live very comfortable great lives. if you need $100 million to retire comfortably, you're not great on the details.

You're not very efficient. It's a quality of life at $1 or $2 million in retirement. J-Mack, we both liked the Dallas Cowboys tonight. Greg CoSell in one hour. I was just looking at your Broncos, Colin. So not only do they struggle on the road this season, winning a bunch of close games, but they face four backup quarterbacks this season.

And guess who they got this week? The Raiders. And they are huge favorites and a dangerous game. But you know the last two years, who's led the NFL in point differential? Lions Ravens. How did they do in the playoffs? They're not ready for it.

Denver and Chicago were like, yeah, we've been in close games. Denver's trailed every game this year at one point. So the Lions, the Ravens, the last two years before this year, but last year and the year before, we saw this all the time. NFC teams that played Baltimore just got distrable. It does you no value in the playoffs. Winning close to me, it builds a confidence in close games.

I mean, if you go back to Michael Jordan's great highlights, the first one you think about that Cleveland series, it's a game-winning shot because they trailed. Or the Utah shot, game-winning shot, because they trailed. Michael Jordan's highlights against the Knicks, even Michael Jordan and the greatest team ever and the greatest player ever. Do you know how many, like, grueling six-game series they were? How many times they actually lost at home?

You got to win close, and I think it builds stuff beyond just a W. The only thing is they're beating bad teams in close games. Those Michael Jordan. Those were epic playoff games. This is like Davis Mills. This is the Raiders 10-7 at home. I will just caution you. After this Raiders game this week, Packers, Jags, Chiefs, Chargers.

That will be the true serum for the Broncos. They'll probably go one in three or two and two down the stretch. What are you laughing at? Come on. These are all playoff teams. I have been hearing this now for weeks about the Chicago Bears. Oh, this game's true serum. Yeah, they just went to Philly.

That was a great win. And knocked the barn door over. You know, like, guys, they keep winning. Like Denver. Well, this one, this next one, I saw them play Kansas City, and I was told, oh, this game against the Chiefs will be true serum. They won that one. Not by me.

I was on the Broncos in that one. But, by the way, do you have Broncos Super Bowl futures? Are you going to put down some bucks? I don't divulge all my Super Bowl future. But put your money where your mouth is, big guy. I pick Denver to win the division. I think their roster's great. I like Bo Nix and Sean Payton's history is bumpy September, better every month.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from the odd couple on Fox Sports Radio. And in addition to hearing us live weeknights from 7 to 10 p.m. Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show. That's right. You can now watch the Odd Couple live on YouTube every day. All you got to do, search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube again. YouTube. Just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out on YouTube and subscribe.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We create. created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say,

Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcast presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne.

This is my best friend Janet. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later. We're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. Wider. This is a podcast we're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.

With all the snacks and drink. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here? Just hit it. What are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a wrap? Alba. Oh, I would.

Come on. Could you move? I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic.

You are. I'm lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team. And I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows, without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening.

on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard.

Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it unfiltered and unbothered and ask, How hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country.

From IHeart Podcast, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire.

Do you rate me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. For free time. Let's get out. Freedom from Vietnam. Run!

Saigon. starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're now entering the no bull zone, sponsored by credible great rates, none of the bull. So when I got a job in Vegas out of college, I love boxing, and boxing was really exploding.

Thomas Hitman Hearn, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, and I would go to these boxing events and was amazing these fights, and there'd be three judges, each sitting in a different part of the ring. And that's because you can all see a different fight based on the angle. And so I'm reading a story this morning that Ole Miss players and Ole Miss Athletic Director dispute Lane Kiffin's version of what was said as he left. Folks, different angles. Where are you sitting?

I mean, movie critics. Gene Siskel, one of the great movie critics of all time, didn't like Silence of the Lambs. Sorry. You know, they rarely agreed on movies. I mean, he and Ebert. So the bottom line is there's three sides to every story, your side, my side, and the truth, as they say.

So, Old Miss AD, old misses players, they're bitter, they're angry, they got dumped, they're emotional, they're scorned. they're going to hear things one way. Lane Kiffin, leaving Old Miss to LSU, is hyped, optimistic, energized, can't wait. Maybe, maybe a little guilt, but he's hungry, and aggressive, and thinks he did his job the right way at Old Miss. And there's a reason we need divorce attorneys. Somebody, somebody to come in without a motion and make a decision.

old miss got dumped and they're angry and you could argue they have a right to be angry but i don't suddenly believe everything old miss players and the athletic director and the boosters and the donors are saying all of us when dumped are overly emotional or at least emotional so i've argued from the beginning you knew what you were getting when you hired him and old miss maybe not for all programs but for Ole Miss, it was better to have had Lane Kiffin and lost him than to have not had Lane Kiffin at all. And Old Miss, the college football playoffs starts in two weeks. Everybody's betting against you. Why?

Because you go to the airport, flip people off, and scream ugly things, and you're not concentrating on your players and your game plan and your team. I understand being angry. but I'm less inclined to listen to people who are highly emotional. If you're highly emotional as a coach, a little league dad, a soccer or pageant mom, I'm not really interested in your opinion. Okay. So this idea that Lane is just, you know, he's just embellishing it. He's hungry.

He's excited. It's signing day. It's a new job. I've had four new jobs in my life. You can't see straight. You're so happy. Got a new challenge. You're putting together a staff at signing day.

You can't wait. I couldn't even get my hair right. The bottom line is the faster Ole Miss gets over it, the better chance they have to win in the college football player. Now, Joel Clatt and I, my blood just, here's Joel Clatt's opinion on Lane leaving the way Lane left. I don't begrudge this man his movement, and he's going to go and he thought LSU was going to be a better opportunity for he and his family, you know, more power to him. But that doesn't mean that there are not consequences to those decisions. And he did leave a team high and dry.

And he left those players high and dry. That's going to hurt his credibility moving forward. And he also went to a place that, let's face it, is not as sound foundationally. They might have more resources, but it's certainly a lot more crazy at LSU. It's like, listen, you know, you can go with it. the six to prom and that six is going to be committed to you you take the nine she might be crazy i think ls u and lane kiffin both are a little crazy it's not a 30-year marriage it's going to be like a three or four-year relationship and i can't wait to watch hollywood divorces are far more

interesting than stable 30-year marriages not saying they're better for society or better for the kids Yeah, Lane's a little crazy. LSU's a little crazy. Okay. There is a reason. Eyewitness testimony is the least reliable evidence. People are highly emotional. Take a deep breath, Ole Miss.

Concentrate on you. Keep the thing the thing. Bitterness doesn't win playoff games. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, let's bust.

right into it. Shadur Sanders versus Cam Ward on Sunday. Feel the excitement, Colin. Two big names from the 2025 NFL Draft Ward went one. Shadour kind of tumble down draft boards. Shadur obviously said there's no added motivation here saying he just wants to win the game and play well. Your thoughts, Colin, on these hugely important matchup. Well, I think Cam Ward's a much greater talent. I think Shadur Sanders is a more fascinating story. I think Cleveland at home is going to win this football game. I have strongly considered it for the Blazing Five inclusion. I've got to get back in my winning ways.

You're backing Shedur-Sanders laying four and a half? My take is anything between four and five points. I generally like the favorites, because Vegas doesn't want to make anybody minus four or minus five. They want to make you minus three. And I think it tells you that Cleveland's a much better football team. There are things Cleveland does every single week, that they're exceptional in.

Tennessee doesn't do anything consistently at an exceptional level, and I get the home team with the significantly better defense. I like Cleveland. Yeah, if you play fantasy, you have to start the Browns defense this week. They probably could score 20 points on their own. I just can't fundamentally put my after-tax dollars on the Browns with Scheduer Sanders needed to cover a spread. I mean, come on.

Like, that's a bridge too far for me. I will say Cleveland now is interesting to watch. I find myself turning into Cleveland. You got to watch Miles Garrett. Is he going to set the record? He may do it this week. Honestly, he may break the sack record this week. He might have another five bagger.

All right, let's move on to Josh Allen and actually good quarterback. Sorry, rookies. How about this wacky stat that our guys found? This is crazy. So he scored a rushing touchdown Sunday. He's 76th. He's now the number one rushing touchdowns for quarterbacks. But here's what's crazy.

He's scored more rushing touchdowns than a lot of Hall of Fame running backs. Allen's total ranks 25th in NFL history among all players. That's crazy. That's crazy. I mean, so our guy had a list here. Okay, Gail Sayers or Josh Allen, who do you think has more rushing? Oh, Josh Allen. Gail Sayers had a short career.

Okay, let's go. O.J. Simpson or Josh Allen? I don't know whatever happened to O.J., but I'd say a Josh Allen. Thurman Thomas or Josh Allen? Now, that's closer. I would say Thurman Thomas. Josh Allen. Earl Campbell.

or Josh Allen. I mean, you can sense a theme here. Yeah, yeah. No, I would say Josh Allen. Thurmond Thomas, was it close? It was close, yeah, Thurman Thomas had 65, and Josh Allen's at 76. But Thurman Thomas was integral in all those Super Bowl rights. It just goes to show.

Josh Allen is the man. I won't ask the question. Sometimes they put questions here for me to ask, Colin, are the bills wasting Josh Allen? They're not wasting it, but he is now moving toward the middle of his prime. The early years of it are done. Now he's in the middle of it, and you're getting

to a point in three years. He could be like moving out of the prime. When you run and get hit, you get about eight years. He's still good in the pocket. No, yeah, but Cam and Big Ben got old really fast. I mean, Stafford's age, quick. Stafford now is healthier than it felt

like when he first got to L.A. And, I mean, I feel like Stafford's getting great protection this year. Stafford all of a sudden is not getting hit. It's He's releasing the ball quickly. But, like, yeah, Cam Newton couldn't win from the pocket like Josh Allen. No way. Now, Cam did take a bunch of hits, but he also had some off-field stuff that didn't endear teams.

I'll just say this about Josh Allen, Colin. He can stay healthy, unlike Lamar Jackson and unlike Joe Burrow. I mean, like, I'm sorry. I know those guys are all going to be lumped together, but Mahomes and Allen don't get hurt. I've said this about Caleb Williams and Bo Nicks. They don't take a lot of sacks now, and they're durable. And, I mean, durability is a huge thing. Eli Manning.

Brett Farve, Tom Brady. Durability is a huge thing. All right. Final story, Collins, Marcus Freeman, one of the best coaches in college football. He's a little upset that Alabama leapt ahead of the Irish in the latest college football playoff rankings. Freeman said he disagreed.

We have sound of Marcus Freeman a little ticked off about Alabama. Obviously, you're disappointed, but more so because a little bit of confusion. You're confused. in terms of what we could have done differently, right? And why we fell when we won 49 to 20. I mean, we were up 42 to 6 going in the fourth quarter. You always look for calls and effect.

You look for a reason in why, you know, you go up or you fall. This is one of the problems, Colin. Bruce Feldman, I'm sure you read his column. I think he's coming on the show later. Like, there's no rhyme or reason to what they're doing. It's goofy. It's embarrassing. Well, you know, the print media,

certainly not talk radio, but print media has always had a soft spot for the little guy. I do not. I would take Miami and Notre Dame and Texas and put them in. I think when you get to the final 12 teams, nobody wins a national championship that doesn't recruit at an elite level. So why are we trying to fool ourselves,

including like the second best team here or the third bet? Like last year we had SMU in. Good program shouldn't be in a playoff. But if we're going to do this and kind of make exceptions so the little guy can play along, all right, that's fine. But we don't have the 12 best teams in. We just don't. What we should do, I think the better way to do it is do the 4-4-2 thing they talked about,

which is SEC gets four, Big Ten gets four, Big 12 gets four, ACC gets two. That way at least you take the committee out of it. I would have no problem doing the 552. But wait, well, hold on, hold on. 4-4-2 is goofy because the fifth-best team in the Big Ten could be better than the fourth-best team in the SEC, which would, you know, or vice versa. I think you've got to toss that out. I don't understand why they can't use logic and data and numbers, which I'll show Notre Dame is a playoff team.

Every, everything you want to look at. Strength of Schedule, Sagarin, some of these SP Plus, some of these advanced stats. Like, why can't they just do that? Well, they did. We used to have computers do it. Nobody liked it. Well, that was only two teams, right? Well, I mean, you went from the media to the computers, and now it's a committee.

I mean, I don't think any of those aren't necessary. I don't think the NFL used computers. I don't think the NFL uses an arbitrary committee. Well, that's a pro league. Come on. Well, college football now has never been more pro. You have a free agency period. Coaches make $10 million plus.

Yeah, there's a salary cap. Come on. In college basketball, there's beef about who makes the NCAA tournament. The problem is it seemed like 68. Right. And nobody cares. But when it's like big brands, listen, if Notre Dame, Miami, and Alabama all happen to miss,

that's terrible for college football. You got to admit that. Oh, again, I don't have this soft spot for the little guy. I'm not saying that Utah shouldn't get in. I don't consider them a little guy. Or like BYU. I don't consider BYU with their huge NIL money to be a little guy. They're a very solid program.

And if they go undefeated or only have one. close loss. I watched BYU play Texas Tech. It wasn't competitive. To me that was their moment and it was not competent. Couldn't move the ball. All right, you're not a playoff team. And I don't lose any sleep over that. So, Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's

the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. So there is this story. Shams is reporting that Janus, Milwaukee Buckstar and his agent are now having conversations about his future. And we'll know

more in the next couple of weeks. So, I mean, listen, Milwaukee's not even a legitimate team, a big-time threat to win the East, to win the East, not the West, which may have like seven of the top eight teams, the East. One of the reasons I have so much respect for the Green Bay Packers, they have moved off icons, Brett Farv, Aaron Rogers, Farrs still had a lot in the tank. So Milwaukee's five times as big as Green Bay.

It's the big city right next to Green Bay. I mean, they even have in Milwaukee, they even have a Costco, and yet they act like Green Bay. Like the Packers act like a big city team. You know, they move off guys. They move off icons. They're run like a big city team. And Milwaukee now, it's like, come on, man.

They're terrified to acknowledge that, listen, they don't control any of their first round picks until I think it's 2031 and they're going to be paying Damian Lillard 20 million a year for the next four or five years they're in a bad spot in Milwaukee they're not relevant in the east

the west has OKC and Denver and I mean go look at the west go look at the standings in the west I mean look how good the Lakers are and we're like yeah they couldn't win the West.

So OKC, the Green Bay Packers of the NBA, OKC Sam Presti, moved off James Hardin, moved off Paul George, traded Russell Westbrook. Those were wildly popular players. So it's just interesting to me. I think the Milwaukee Bucks need to kind of reset their draft picks. I mean, they don't control any of their first round picks. And the other thing that's scary about that is that for a long time,

for about a 20-year period, first round NBA draft picks weren't that valuable? Because, you know, you were getting guys that were 19 years old. What's happened because of the NIL, college basketball now, the next three picks next year are superstar-level players. And then the following 10 after that could be all-stars. Over the last two to three years, have you noticed how good the NBA drafts getting? Why? because guys like Zach Eadie are staying one more year in college because of NIL

and the American colleges are poaching the top 12 to 15 European young guys. So college basketball is now incredibly watchable, packed with talent, the best teams have multiple NBA players. You want your draft picks. Yeah, Milwaukee didn't control any of them for like 2031. So right now, Janus is out for a couple of weeks. five of the top six teams records are in the west and Milwaukee's not viable in the east

make a move I mean the last three seasons with Janice there's an argument he's been the first or second best player in the league last three years in the east first round exits so they're acting the Packers down the road or up the road I mean they're moving off Farv

it's hard to explain how below Farve was in Green Bay more I mean Janus is amazing Farv was more beloved moved off him moved off him and he was still really good. Remember that Minnesota year or two? He was still a pro bowler. So I think the smartest people I've ever met in any industry, they have one thing in common.

It's not where they went to college. It's not, it really isn't. Flexibility. They crave flexibility. That's what Jerry Jones did. Like, cowboy fans did not want Jerry Jones to trade Micah. And Jerry's like, I have to get flexibility. The bucks are bad in the East. They have no flexibility. Don't control their draft picks. Pan Damian Lillard, they got to take a big swing.

They are stuck. You've got to get out of being stuck. That's why Jerry Jones didn't sign Micah. He's like, I got to get unstuck. So it's almost like I'm telling Milwaukee, like, diversify your portfolio. And I love Janus. But this is, it's not working. And I'm not being a hypocrite. I said this three years ago, when they got really old, really fast. Like, guys, you got a title out of it,

restock the cupboard, get five. I mean, I think with Janus, and Jemak, you may disagree, I think with Janus, you could get four first round picks.

And in an improved draft, I would give up four first round picks. The problem is nobody really has that except really OKC, which is scary and I don't think it'll happen. That's the problem. So, Colin, Let's say there's nobody with four first round picks.

Would you want to clean up the books and just get like salary dumps and a good player? You go to OKC. Give us Chet Hongren. We'll give you Yonis four first round picks and like a Lou Dort or another really good. You give me, I'll give you Yonis. I get, because O.C. can do it. Four first round picks. I need a big.

Give me Chet Hongren, who's younger. It may be a more natural and diversified offensive player. can shoot threes, can handle the ball well. You give me, Holmgren, you give me another starter. I need another good starter and a bench player. Well, they might want to move off Caruso or one of these guys that they got to pay again in a year or two. But that's interesting.

Con, let me ask you, the Thunder just won the title. They are, I believe, 21 and 1, on pace to win 74 games. And you're going to break that up and bring on Janus? I'm not giving up SGA. I'm not giving up Jalen Williams. I'm not giving up Sam Presti. I'm not giving up the GM. I'd be giving up a starter who's not as good as Janice,

another starter and four picks. Well, it might take more than just one. Let me ask you this. What is OKC going to do with all these first round picks? Well, that's the thing. They can move off. Like, there's players like 5, 6, 7, 8 are good. They're going to have to pay them.

Just let them walk. Don't pay them and bring on. As of right now, OKC has two top 10 picks in the draft next year. That's terrifying. for the league. Now, Janus makes, what is it, 50 a year, Chet Holmgren makes 13, so you have to get the salaries to match. You may need a third, you may need a third team like Houston. Fine.

But yeah, salaries could max. Now, that would be one of the best dynasties in NBA history. If you bring Janus to O'KC, that'll rival the Warriors and Durant and Curry. That'll rival Jordan's Bulls. Would it not? It'll be a great... This idea, ooh, you can't break stuff up. Remember when the... I always say, you need to break stuff up. Like, you

Every couple years, because, like, maybe you don't, but at the trade deadline, because O.K.C. is the best team in the league. And you're like, why should we take a chance on it? To get Janice, Luz Holmgren, Lou Dort, four picks, you can't just say, Howie Roseman can win a Super Bowl. You know what, how he does in the offseason? Trades people. Yeah, but he's not trading Jalen Hertz, Sequin Barclay, A.J. Brown. He's not trading his core guys. You could do stuff around the edges. I mean, Chech's their third best player. He was their second best player. he was their second best player in certain games last year. I would trade my third best player for Janus. Third and four picks and two other guys?

Yeah, that's a whole. I mean, if you're the bucks, that's a good, it's a great get if you get four picks. Well, they're trying to get unstuck. You've got to take a big swing on us. I'm just throwing it out there. You've got to get salaries to match. I'm curious with the OKC fan.

We have a lot of OKC fans, at least a dozen listen to this show. So I'm really curious. Well, what their thoughts. Sorry, guys, I had to. Greg CoSell, top of next hour, it's The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, big news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called,

Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the fly. Man, he running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a paramed apocal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be with the Adamani Arriva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be.

Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be getting naked at 50? with the new guy. That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try.

So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcasts presents

soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. This is my best friend Janet. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later. We're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider.

This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drink. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Well, they had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here?

Just take it. What are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap? Alba. I would buy it. Cut through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious.

Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You are. I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Oh.

Listen to soccer moms on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From My Heart Podcasts, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much.

I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you rate me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine.

Or free time. Let's get out. Freedom, Mom, Vietnam! Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything.

Listen to Saigon on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get Podcasts. Saturday for the first time in conference history, number one and number two collide in the Big Ten title game. Heisman front runners collide as Julian San leads number one Ohio State against Fernando Mendoza and number two Indiana. Coverage begins Saturday at 6.30 Eastern on Fox. I'll take Ohio State by a touchdown-ish.

I think Georgia struggles with Bama. I would probably take Georgia to beat Alabama. Yeah, Texas Tech, Big 12, and nobody cares too much about the ACC, although I think it's ridiculous that if Duke wins over Virginia, then nobody from the ACC goes. Bruce Feldman later on the show. So football's got a salary cap.

Hockey's got one. NBA has one. MLS has, you know, tight screws on their salaries. Baseball does not have a salary cap. I'm pretty okay with it. I think there should be a floor where a billionaire should have to spend a certain amount of money to be viable.

But I don't like taking money from the richest owners and the smartest GMs and owners and giving it to the guys that aren't as well run. Dave Roberts was asked this week about a major league baseball salary cap, the Dodgers manager said this. You know what? I'm all right with that.

I think the NBA has done a nice job of kind of revenue sharing with the players and the owners. But if you're going to kind of suppress spending at the top, I think that you've got to raise the floor to make those bottom feet or spend money too. So far, the Dylan Seas just made $210 million.

He was acquired by a team. It was not the Yankees or the Dodgers or the Cubs or the Mets or the Phillies. It was a team in Canada. Toronto's like, we got a rich owner, we're going to spend money. By the way, richest owner in baseball is Steve Cohen. How the Mets do? They've missed the playoffs three times. By the way, the Washington Nationals owner, third or fourth richest,

they were the third worst team in baseball. Major League Baseball is on fire. The TV ratings, the attendance, the vibe. and there's two reasons it's on fire. Number one, they've done a really smart job to speed the game up. Rob Manfred deserves a lot of credit. And it also helps that the big brands are on fire.

But you know what else made the playoffs really great? The underdog stories, the well-run Cleveland Guardians, the well-run Seattle Mariners, the really well-run Milwaukee Brewers. So you had a lot of David and Goliath. Now, Goliath may win those in the end, but it made for fascinating storytelling.

So again, Steve Cohen, Illich's family in Detroit, I think second richest, the nationals owners. So I don't think those guys should have to give money to the Pittsburgh Pirates billionaire. The pirates are bad, not because of Major League Baseball or because of revenue sharing. The Pirates owner's cheap. Because small market Seattle, small market Milwaukee is doing just fine. Milwaukee is really well run. Does Milwaukee have that much more money than Pittsburgh?

Aren't they kind of the same size as a market? So I think baseball's on fire because of Rob Bannford's changes, because the big markets are crushing, and because it's not as lob sighted as you want to believe it is. There's a lot of small market stories doing really well. At one point, I don't know what it ended up being in the regular season. Didn't the Brewer sweep the Dodgers 6-0 in the regular season? Now by the time the postseason came around,

and the Dodgers solved their bullpen, it was a different story. But, I mean, to me, the sports in an incredible spot, an absolutely incredible spot. We do have ourselves a dynasty going on because the Dodgers have done one thing that is available to other owners, but they haven't done it. They have deferred payments. And so by getting Yoshi and Otani, these are unbelievable transcendent players. I mean, Yoshi was unbelievable. And the Dodgers outbid everybody, and no question. But I've said this before about the Dodgers, is they have so many guys.

Max Muncie, the A's got rid of him. I mean, you look at Tommy Edmund. He was a 260 hitter, a good defensive player for the Cardinals. They moved off him. The Dodgers are not just about Otani. Otani mostly could not hit in the postseason. Mookie Betts struggled hitting. A lot of their stars struggled.

It was a lot of other guys in the bull. bullpen, starting, finally getting healthy. So I think baseball is in an incredible place. If you're going to put anything in, force teams at the bottom to have to spend, their billionaire owner to have to spend. Because I do think the bottom of baseball right now, I mean, the A's feel like a AAA team. And I think that's bad for the sport. But the NFL's got nine, ten unwatchable teams.

NBA always does. So the bottom of these leagues has never been great. All right. Greg CoSell is showing up. I want to throw this out there. I mean, maybe you noticed, but I predicted when the NIL happened in college football, I said the SEC will still be very good, but it won't be as dominant. There's a lot more money at Notre Dame, Phil Knight and Oregon, USC, California's economy, Michigan. Michigan and Notre Dame have top ten endowments in the country. The other eight are mostly Ivy League schools.

And did you notice, now that you can pay players, did you notice who had the best recruiting class? USC in Los Angeles. Number two, Oregon, Phil Knight, Notre Dame, depending on the service, number three. First time in 18 years wasn't an SEC team. Now, Georgia's got money, but, you know, we were joking around this morning. In SEC, and this is true, in the SEC, Alabama, territory, your number two or three booster can be a car dealer. In the big ten, it's a car maker.

And that's, there is a difference. And that doesn't mean Georgia can't be really good. But when the NIL got created and college football went from purely college football to about 30, 35 percent NFL. Free agency. Scheduling was going to be more even. Pay all your players. They can transfer at any time. So, you know, when I watched, did you notice who signed a five-star quarterback in the South? Vandy. Why would that be? Well, probably had to pay him, right?

The New York Times in 2017 did a study on economic outcomes, economic outcomes. How much do people that go to all the SEC schools make? Vandy, over $200,000, the median family income. Banna closer to 90. That's still pretty good, right? But in the end, NIL didn't squish the little guy. Indiana's now a power. Vanderbilt is outbidding everywhere.

Bandy is the Hedy School in the South. Tulane, by the way, another heady school. They're pretty good. Everybody thought the NIL would squish the little guy. It's hurt the big guy. It seems to me if Bandy's rolling. That wasn't happening 10 years ago. Hey guys, it's us.

The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. Don't care where you hear it.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to him. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.

And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man.

Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of those things.

As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city, in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.