The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 1 - Jimmy Butler is that guy

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

Colin reacts to the Heat stealing game 1 of the Eastern Conference Finals from the Celtics The big difference between Jimmy Butler and Jayson Tatum The hype surrounding projected number 1 overall pick Victor WembanyamaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. A lot of choices out there. Appreciate you stopping by. Lakers Nuggets game two tonight. We kind of called it. Well, I said Miami being an eight and a half point underdog. That team doesn't need a reason to get into a fist fight.

That team is built, as they say, built forward tough. they are tough and you mocked them by making them an eight and a half point underdog. They went in at halftime, they came out in their street fighting clothes, and they just, they were not going to be denied in the second half with the best coach probably in the league. Yeah, Colin, you know sports analytics have taken over sports and there are just some things you cannot quantify. And Miami's grit, toughness, heart, the undrafted players, phenomenal stuff from them. One of the reasons to like Jimmy Butler, Jimmy Butler's had a hard life. I'll get into that in a second.

But when asked about his tough childhood, no victimization. And God, that stuff lives over the internet 24-7. Jimmy Butler said, there's nothing to feel sorry about with me. I love what happened to me. I'm grateful for the challenges I've faced. Don't make people feel sorry for me. God, I love Jimmy Butler. I said it yesterday.

If you give me the best player in this series, and I think it's Butler, and you give me a significantly better coach, Spoh, you give me another high-end player, Bamatabayu, against a team that sometimes lacks an identity late in games. You can't tell me they don't have a shot. I still think Boston wins. But as I predicted, I'm going to pat myself in the back. Tatum would not be as dominant. You got Tatum and Jimmy Butler, toe-to-to-to. Tatum didn't take a shot in the fourth quarter, a field goal. That's insane.

But sometimes it's who he is. He's not MJ. A different life. He's not Kobe. He's closer to Andrew Wiggins. He's kind of elegant. He's more talented than Andrew Wiggins. But Andrew Wiggins was a number one pick.

Andrew Wiggins is really talented. Tatum feels to me a bit more like him. Wiggins has great knights. And then he disappears when you need him most. Yes, Tatum had a great game seven against Philadelphia. The Sixers quit. They quit. What does Miami not do?

Quit. I like Tatum. I like him a lot. But when you juxtapose Butler and Tatum on the floor together, they're not only different players. They're different people. They've had different childhoods. They've had different journeys.

Jimmy Butler kicked out of his house by his mom. had to go to a junior college, abandoned by his father. The toughest people I've ever met in my life have often come from lives of turbulence and chaos, and they've had to fight through it, and they build these calluses. But Jimmy Butler says, don't feel sorry for me. It's who I am, and I love what it's made me. God, how do you not love him? By the way, I'm not saying Jason Tatum's life has been all rosy.

Mom was a lawyer, prep school, Duke, didn't have to move around. The Celtics have always had his back. They're different. They're different people. Sometimes Tatum defers. Jimmy takes games over. Doesn't mean he's selfish, but he is a street fighter. And when you make Miami an eight and a half point underdog,

you give a team with four undrafted players and the great Jimmy Butler, one of the only NBA stars in league history, who is significantly better in playoff games than the regular season. He's the anti-James Hardin. You get a game that looked like last night. That doesn't mean Tatum won't have more great games. It doesn't mean Tatum can't be tough. But if I said lock Tatum and Butler in a room,

turn the lights off. One comes out in five minutes. Who you taken? I know who I'm taken. And these playoff games for years in years, they're about men. They're about fight. They're about will.

That's what they're about. I know. Draymon punched a player. So did Michael. go read the Jeff Pearlman book on Kobe in check. Kobe was relentless at times unbelievably obnoxious. Will wins these games. Miami's got more talent.

But that thing felt it had a little, when I watched Tatum, I see Sugar Ray Leonard. I see refined and elegant. When I see Butler, I see Marvin Hagler. I mean, that guy is ready for a fight. And you make him an eight and a half point dog and you say he's got no shot in the series. And that's what it looks like. That line last night, we said it yesterday, was disrespectful. I love both these players.

But they're different guys. They're different personalities. They've had different journeys. Doesn't mean one's better than the other. Butler's like, don't feel sorry for me. Tatum's like, I'll be back. And I think he will. I wouldn't be shocked if in game two, Tatum didn't drop 40.

But to not have a field goal in the fourth for Tatum, to have two traveling calls in the last 90 seconds, it just was kind of predictable. By the way, since the start of the 2020 playoffs, Jimmy Butler has tied for third with the most wins, more than Steph, LeBron, Booker, and KD. An impossible player. Jimmy Butler is what we wish all of our favorite players were.

Better in the playoffs. Never back down from a fight. Life's not been perfect. Never a victim. Butler after. If you go back all the way to that night against Chicago in the play-end, did you think then that something like this would be possible? Damn right. I did. Damn right. We did.

And the best part about it is we still don't care what none of y'all think. Honestly speaking, we don't care if you pick us to win. We never have. We never will. We know the group of guys we have in his locker room. We pump constant confidence into everybody. And we go out and we hoop. We play basketball the right way, knowing. that we always got a chance. He plays hard, he gets hurt, Tatum will bounce back, you know he will. Jason's got some fighting him, but when you watch those two on the floor last night,

their facial expressions, how they played late, how they demanded the ball, those are two different dudes with two different styles. They're both great for basketball. That was one of my favorite playoff games I've watched. That was absolutely one of the best two and a half hours I've spent watching pro basketball in a long time. And my guess is Boston rallies and comes back very strong backed into a corner in game two and evens it up. All right.

So there was a story and I was reading a lot about this yesterday. I like to read in the afternoon and meditate. But Victor Wembenyama is going to the San Antonio Spurs. I believe the right place for him to go. San Antonio knows what they're doing. They've done this before. It's grownups. One coach.

The seven teams after them who wanted Victor Wembeñama have had 25 coaches. in 10 years, hard pass. But a lot of people don't know what to make of the fact he's called the best prospect ever. And people are uncomfortable with it. If the kid can't handle being called the best prospect ever, not going to be great. The truth is, there are people called scouts. They do it for a living. And they're right a lot. They were right with LeBron and Tiger Woods at 11, Shaq, Peyton Manning Elway, Bryce Harper, Sidney Crosby. Serena Williams, Mike Tyson at 19. They're right a lot.

What about Ben Simmons? What about him? All-Star year two. All-NBA, year four. Rookie of the year. Six, ten and a half could defend, handle, and distribute score at the rim. He just got weird. The two things that screw up these legacies, like child actors,

drugs and weird. and in the NBA or NFL or baseball, its injuries are weird. Ben Simmons got odd, but do not deny Ben Simmons was unbelievable. I talked to a scout. Many believed, not a few. He was the best out of high school, one year prospect, either a high school or college prospect for a year, best since LeBron. Six, ten and a half, a more athletic, stronger Magic Johnson.

People felt that. And he was really good, really good. Then he got odd. But scouts know what they're doing. And they mostly get these generational talents right. It's like tech startups. Yes, there's a lot of misses. Facebook bought Instagram when Instagram had 13 employees.

The smart people saw it. They saw Airbnb, PayPal, Uber. They're really smart money. The really, really, the billionaires. It's funny how they all collectively owe a sign up for the big best. That doesn't mean as angel investors they don't have misses, and it doesn't mean scouts sometimes can't predict that Ben Simmons suddenly won't like basketball or that Greg Oden will fall apart or Sam Bowie. It happens.

But I got a phone call from Brian Berger. I remember this. He worked at Nike. Brian Berger worked at Nike. He's probably listening today. He listens all the time. Dwight Howard was 14. I said, what are you doing?

Because I used to live in Portland with Brian. he goes, I'm in a Nike. They found the next great center. What's his name? Dwight Howard. I'm in Florida watching some tournament. Like, how old is he? 14. The basketball culture used to reward back to the basket centers. And so the sport, after about seven years in the league, moved away from Dwight Howard. But the Nikes, you know, the Adidas, the shoe companies, the scouts, they can spot great. barring weirdness or an injury, Victor Webbenyama is going to bring titles and be really, really special for Greg Popovich in the San Antonio Spurs.

This is what they do. Go to your Reddit board. You know more. But they were right on Tiger and Elway and Manning. They were right. The GMs that thought Brett Farve was amazing when he was drinking too much down with the Atlanta Falcons. Remember those stories? And Ron Wolfe, the best GM in the league said,

that's your next star. Nobody on a Reddit board back then. First of all, there was no Reddit. Second of all, everybody's great, knowing after something great happens. Scouts know it when these kids are 11, 12, 13. Go look at the LeBron story. Just read the book.

The LeBron book, Jeff Benedict, people knew it. Tiger Woods at 11 years old, IM, because he was so young, they had to do it privately. They'd sign him to a deal. So I think Victor's going to be amazing. barring weirdness or an injury.

All right. That's a lot to talk about. Very exciting. Woo! See, you were a cynic on that rant. I saw you go, yeah, right. Well, there was one part where I did roll my eyes. But overall, I liked it.

Like, Jimmy Butler, man, he has something else. I was just looking at the year he was drafted, 2011. He went 30th. Scouts totally missed on him. College scouts missed on him as well. Junior college. Yeah. So ask yourself, do you think, I mean, look at Brady.

When they talked about in year 18, when they talked about him being drafted in the six, he started crying on TV. That stuff never leaves you. People always wonder, why is this guy, it's why I always say when these GMs try to solve Rodman. You have to accept Rodman in his prime. You have to accept Raymond Greene. You have to accept young athletes. You want John Morant to be Steph Curry. different life, different dude.

He's going to make mistakes. He didn't grow up with an NBA dad. He didn't grow up in the back of a BMW going to golf courses. It's a different life. It's why you've got to be tolerant and accepting of young athletes. Everybody's trying to solve them. There is no solving them. Jaws what he is.

He needs a better support system. He's going to make mistakes. It's not a bad person. We are all products of our environment. I've got a chip in my shoulders. My wife always jokes. She says, you're balanced. I said, what do you mean?

She says you have a chip on. both shoulders. It's okay. We're products of our environment, of our upbringing, and Jimmy Butler's been doubted his entire life, and it has given him this amazing jet fuel. He wants none of our sympathy. Even his coffee brand, he made it in his hotel room in the bubble. He didn't go to Starbucks and say, I want to be, because I'm going to make my own coffee brand, big face coffee. It is so on brand for a guy that has no brand other than tough. Funny story. I don't mind admitting. I don't mind. this stuff, I bought one of his coffee t-shirts. It's a white t-shirt. It's a little too tight on me

because I've been lifting. And it just says big face coffee or whatever. And I don't wear it a lot, but I like Jimmy Butler. Everything about it and the chip on the shoulder. It's staggering. Now, listen, I didn't like when you went after Tatum a little bit mentioning prep school. Well, you went to a prep school.

I did not go to prep school. I absolutely It's not a knock on him. My point was, they lived different childhoods. Their journeys are totally different. So, don't be shocked if they're a little different people. Yeah, listen, Tatum is a killer. He just had the greatest game seven in the history of basketball.

Sometimes. Well, it's tough to not be a killer when you don't have the basketball. Stan Van Gundy was calling out the coach last night. How is Jason Tatum not touching the ball on every possession? That's not totally on Taylor. Never said, never said he wasn't tough. He had no shots in the fourth. I don't care how bad the coach was before Phil Jackson.

Michael Jordan never had a fourth quarter with no shots. I don't care if it was Stan Albrecht, Doug Collins. You grab the ball and take the game over. I'm not saying you have to take 10 straight. No shots. Well, it's kind of hard when Jalen Brown, who had 21 shots, did not get me the point total last time. It's just pounding the ball into oblivion, turning it over. Did you see Jimmy Butler had three steals in the final, like six minutes of the game?

He's just so clutch. The guy's money. Yeah. Yeah. Would Jordan let another guy pound the ball on the floor? Or would he confront him? Just go over there and punch him out like John? Or would he confront him?

in a huddle and say, get me the ball. I know my contract. We don't know Tateham did not do that. Listen, Marcus Smart, amazing first half, vanished his second half. That was a little letdown by Boston. But I'm just curious, who do you think wins a series? You didn't change to mine. I think Boston's more talented. I think over the course of time, I think they'll bounce back. I think Tatum, hearing this will be, you know, motivated. I think the coaching staff will try to get him very involved, very involved, very involved early. middle-late. I think the coaching staff of the Celtics is appropriately being crushed today. Did you know they didn't call a timeout during the third quarter? Hey, by the way, Grant Williams, remember at like 14 threes against Milwaukee in Game 7 last year?

He's not even playing for this team. He could maybe defend Jimmy Butler, not Peyton Bridget. A lot of questions about the Boston coach. He's been shaky, Missoula. Shaky. No time out in the third quarter. They scored 46 points. No time out. By the way, do you remember in the fourth quarter when Boston cut the lead. Spow immediately. He's like, time out, time out, time out. Stop this. We're on the road. Stop the momentum. So we said yesterday, I thought Spow was worth one and probably two wins. You think he's got a chip on his shoulder, video coordinator in the back room? I don't think Missoula was ever doing that. Missoula is like younger than Al Horford. I don't know. All I know,

Jimmy Butler and Tatum. I love them both. But those are different dudes. Those are different, totally different personality. One guy is elegant. The other is a street. Heat Fighter, love them both. But last night when you juxtapose him and you looked at him, you're like, Tatum was nervous. Tatum's traveling. Hey, by the way, if I'm Dame Liller watching that, can you get me to South Beach, please? I want to play with that guy.

Yes. I want to play with Jimmy Butler, Bam out of bio, and Heat Culture. If I'm Damien Liller, that's my takeaway from last night's game. I didn't think about that, but that is a great point. Get to South Beach, Dame. What are they given Portland? We'll figure it out later. Tyler Hero, draft picks, Duncan Robinson.

Tyler, by. buy his play ticket myself. Hey, all these undrafted guys, you can take them. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite

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follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

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So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You're now entering the No Bull Zone spot turned by credible great rates, none of the bull. J-Max ticking off people in San Antonio. This show is very, very controversial now. Please tell all your friends. It's very, very controversial. All I'm saying about Tatum is if you're going to give them all this love and credit and call him a legend because of a 51-point game against the team that quit in a blowout, don't we judge players in close games? No shots in the fourth quarter? None. Come on, man. Two traveling calls in 90 seconds. I said this a couple days ago. Every Celtic fan in the world in that game seven was crossing their fingers that Philly would quit and it wouldn't come down to Tatum. I don't give, for years and years, we used to bang on Matt Stafford and Matt Ryan. They used to call him stat, stat,

Hadford because Matt would get all his stats and blowout losses or blowout wins, but in close games, not so much. That's my thing. What are you in close games? Jimmy Butler in close games. That's what I care about. I don't give a rip about your 40, 50 point games. I mean, it's amazing, but it's like, so what?

It's a blowout. Do something. We are all judged, right? All these pro athletes, Mahomes is great in close games. Mahomes is great playing from behind. Burroughs great in close games. I don't care what you're doing in a blowout. There's no pressure in a ballout.

What are you doing in a close game in the fourth quarter? That's Steph Curry's legend. That's LeBron's legend. That's Michael's legend. Not blowout games. There's no pressure in those. Everybody's good. You know, at the Hartford Open, you lead by nine shots on Sunday going in.

No, it's the Masters. You lead by four shots, and the guy behind you is six under through five holes. That's pressure. Do you hit the put then? That defines iconic to me. not 51 in a blowout win at home against the team that quit, although he is a remarkable player. So there's a story out yesterday we discussed that the Portland Trailblazers are expected to shop the number three pick to get Damian Lillard help. I think it's the right move, and here's why.

If Victor Wembeyanama is a star and he projects as a five-star, A-plus-plus star, and Scoot Henderson is at least an all-star, and that's what the scouts are saying, then you've got two super high-end players in the first couple of picks. That's about what a draft gives you. One of the greatest drafts of all time is 2003. It gave you LeBron and D. Wade and Mello. And Mello, let's be honest, kind of underachieved. You never won enough. That's the all-time best.

LeBron and D. Wade, who eventually played together. All right. Chris Bosch was good, but would have done nothing in. Canada, if not joining LeBron and D. Wade. Okay. So if you know that you've got two stars and you're probably not going to get them, a star big and a star guard, we're probably not going to have a third star who won't be on Damien Lillard's timeline, so don't waste Damien's next three great years. Another great draft, a great one was 2009 that gave you James Harden, Flaky, Blake Griffin, no titles, Demar Dorosen, very good, not great. And Steph Curry. That was considered

a great draft. Go get a player for Damian Lillard. Let's somebody else chase hope. And I've said this before because these players come in at 19 years old. John Morant's a great example of it, Zion Williamson. It takes a long time to get him right emotionally and physically. I mean, Jason Tatum's gone about as well as you could hope for Jason Tatum. I mean, the Celtics, no chaos.

It's a great organization. He's been surrounded by good players. He's been surrounded by the same players. I mean, it's like a really great, great place to play professional basketball in Boston. Six years, number three pick, no titles. Last night got dogged. It's hard. It takes years.

Damien Lillard doesn't have those years. And the Blazers historically have always done very well in the draft, finding lottery picks. They always get hurt or finding guys in the middle of the first round, Germain O'Neill, or finding guys later. Portland will be fine. But the history tells you, if Scoot Henderson, and Victor are as good as the scouter saying, one's all-time great and one's an all-star great, you're probably not getting a third superstar player.

Dame needs help now. I think Portland's making the right move, J-Mack, with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. That Dame Lillard situation is staggering. Like, Portland is just delusional. Like, what?

It's just going to. You're not going to keep him and go anywhere. You've got to trade him. Just start over. I know it's tough. Oh, we love him. Like, you know, it's not personal. It's just business. Well, I think it's better. I think it's better for him. Yeah. This idea that you can stay there and win, it's not happening. Anyways, all right, let's move on. Miami is very, very interesting. I just don't know if they have anything to give up. Now, would they give up Bam out of bayou? Because you lose a lot of, Bam was very active last night. Bam's a very good player. He kind of lets you down in big spots, but his length, he's so aggressive. He's all,

Dude, he's diving on the floor for loose balls, the 6-11 guy. I don't think you can give him up. You do one of those packages, not quite the Kevin Durant package. Third team. But, like, look, you go like three future first-round picks, Tyler Hero, whatever else you want for my roster. Pick it, it's yours, you know? I don't know if they'll love that.

I think that's a really good fit. That's really interesting. Yeah, Portland's going to need more than that. But at any rate, let's go to the Warriors. They got some problems, coward. Questions loom over the dynasty, and one of the bigger question marks is GM-B. Bob Myers.

Here's the latest from Shams Sharania, reporter. The Warriors and Bob Myers have had no substantial contract extension talks in months. The sides could be bracing for the likelihood he could walk away from the franchise. Listen, we need to be clear. Myers, best I could tell, did not draft Curry and Clay. He did, of course, you know, hire Steve Kerr, which was, it took some foresight. Brought Wiggins in. Brought Wiggins in.

He did. He also, let's be real. He whiffed badly on James Wyman. Well, come on. What do you mean, come on? They already traded him. Cuminga's looking like, and he gave Jordan Poole that massive extension,

which is causing a lot of fissures. I don't know if that's the right word. I think it's a vocabulary word. So Myers kind of a rough end here. It never ends pretty. It's tough. Now, they wouldn't have won without Wiggins. That title without Wiggins was very important.

Iggy was an MVP. Draymond probably doesn't punch Poole if Poole doesn't get the contract. Oh, boy. I don't know. What do you do with Myers? So it's not that this story it's out. It's why is the story out? I'm just, I don't know this for sure, but is it out because somebody wants a raise and if this is out?

I mean, how did that information get out? Somebody printed, somebody gave it to Shams. He didn't go into the offices at night, sneak into a door and a file and find it. Somebody gave Shams the info. So you think Myers wants to stay and he wants money. I think Myers wants to stay. Everybody else has been paid. Kerr's been paid.

Jordan Poole's been paid. Steph's been paid. Draymond's been paid. Everybody's been paid. Bob said, I built this puppy, too. I want to get paid. So here's the interesting thing. If they go out, if they just say, Bob, thanks for your service, we're out.

And they hire a new guy. I think you increase the likelihood dramatically that Clay or Draymond could be on the outs. Like if you keep Myers. Huh? Draymond's coming back. Come on. I'm not ready to go to a steak dinner on that one. Steph and Draymond are coming back and Curves coming back.

Clay Thompson. Now, I did think about this last night when I saw that story. Now, this is really conspiracy theorist, and I hate this. We have your tinfoil hat over there somewhere. No, no, no. I make fun of conspiracy theorists. But is this one where the owner's like, I'm not paying clay? And Bob is like, I can't not pay him.

I've made promises. And so what they do is they move Bob out of a decision-making role for a year. They move clay, then Bob comes back in, and the owner takes the hit. Wow. Again, that's a conspiracy theory, but when I saw it, I thought they love Bob Myers up there. I know everybody up there that love, they love Bob Myers. The owner loves Bob Myers. I think it's out there.

Somebody wants a raise, and this is the last swing to get one. I'm trying to think of a similar situation with Clay where he's beloved by the city, by the team, by the players, and you move off of them. And like, you don't know what the ripple effects are going to be from losing Clay. If I'm San Antonio, by the way, I love to bring on Clay Thompson. winning DNA, smart player, high IQ guy. I want everyone. I want Fumman Yama, I want those kind of players around me.

Clay Thompson's, Fred Van Vleet, who's been chatted about Chris Paul. Like, I want that. And I think there's a market for Clay. I don't think anybody out there is like, oh, I got to get my hands on Jordan Poole. I just don't think that's happening. I don't know. I think he's got a little bigger market than you think. He does average 26 a game when Steph doesn't play.

He's an automatic. How many guys in this league give you 25 a night? Did they win a lot of games with Poole in there? Well, that means Steph is out, and Steph's one of the great players of all time. How many games the Lakers win without LeBron over the last several years? It's hard. It's hard when a great play. Jimmy Butler takes the night off.

Miami's not as good. What a shock. Okay. All right, let's go to Michael Jordan, who is the second greatest player in the history of basketball. He had an amazing career. Six and O in title games. Obviously, a lot of people think LeBron has passed him or will pass him. according to Chandler Parsons,

LeBron James could jump ahead of Jordan by the end of this season. Here's what he had to say. Do not let the Lakers win this championship. Because if he wins this after everything they've been through this season, tell me he's not the best player of all the time. I'll tell you. Scoring record? This wasn't even his team two months ago.

And if he takes this team, so, man, I know they got better. I know other guys you're playing well. I know Austin Reeves is playing brave well. I know Anthony Davis. But my God, put an end on the whole debate because if LeBron James was the championship this year, after everything this team, they were the laughing stock for four months. They made a couple moves. This hurts.

And they win the championship this year? Where's the lie? The lie is that he's a few years late and this was the bubble. The bubble championship did that. LeBron, anywhere he goes to wins and dominates. And that's why I, when he won the bubble title, I said that he's a dog. You know, bloggers will make that controversial. They make everything controversial.

That's not controversial. Not at all. That's absolutely accurate that I think historically this would be LeBron's crowning achievement from an AD that can't give you consistent performances. I hope that's not framed as controversial. It's absolutely realistic. Listen, Michael, not that he had a stacked deck, but you're playing with Hall of Famers. This team was a circus at the trade deadline.

And don't tell me that Rui and Austin Reeves and Dennis Schrooter are all-stars surrounding him. Like, this is still a great. Anthony Davis, every other game, and a bunch of guys that bounce around the league. That's what this team is. And an undrafted kid we like who would be the fourth to fifth best player in a title team. This is going to be the crowning achievement, not going back to Cleatley. You're going to look at this and go, 30 years from now, you'll look at this roster and go, the hell did that happen? It's going to be insane. That's why they can't. This team, I, you don't see them winning the titles? It's insane. Boston's got like six players I like. They've been together forever.

Denver's the number one seed. Yokic is the best player arguably in the league. Their guys are all available. I mean, I just look at all these teams, and it's like you've got the heat culture. I mean, this is a team that was basically a new team. They were two in ten to start the season. I think they had a three percent chance or less than maybe three, a tiny percent chance. They were a hazmat spill at the trade deadline.

You had to put caution tape around them. It's amazing what they've done. And, you know, year 20, LeBron, it hasn't left basketball for a year and a half to recharge the batteries. the way Jordan did. Like, the consistency is just unbelievable for LeBron. All right, let's wrap up with some NFL. Cowboys have to perform some salary cap gymnastics to keep their stars.

Trayvon Diggs is set to become a free agent after the season. C.D. Lamb and Dack Prescott are both only signed through 24. And Micah Parsons wants a long-term deal. Stephen Jones, though, isn't worried about keeping these stars in Dallas. I feel like as we move forward, it will all be about timing. but we feel like we can work within the parameters of the cap and make those type of things happen. You can't dictate when things happen and timing.

It takes two sides. For them to want to sign up, they got to be happy where it is and vice versa. But I wouldn't say just because we don't get it done by the start of the season doesn't mean we're not going to ultimately sign them. I certainly think it's doable. Who you bring him back in that crew? Trayvon Diggs, a bit of an overrated corner.

He's good, but... Well, Michael, I'm going to bring back my stars. Obviously. C.D. Lamb. Micah Parsons. When do you wonder about rebooting the quarterback position? They're not doing that. They're not winning Super Bowls, but they're not doing that.

That's fine. He's Kirk Cousins. That's fine. He might even be Damian Lillard. Like, you know, you just keep them. You maybe win. Maybe you're in the lottery. Good guy. Wins games.

Can win a playoff game. Good guy in the community. Everybody likes Dak. It's a good player. There's nothing wrong with good players. If I said to you when you were 12 years old, you can go be a pro and be a very good player. You'd be like, I'll take it.

Oh, wait a minute. Wait a bit. What sport? It doesn't matter. Good player gets paid everywhere. Good player has a great life everywhere. A good MLS player is not a good NFL player, but you also don't get tackled for 10 years and end up wobbling when you're 52 years old.

So give me a good player. Give me a good player. Well, you couldn't have been any of them. You couldn't have been any of them. I'm saying. What if you were Bradley Beal? Oh, I would take that in a heartbeat. He's making $50 million in like two years.

Oh, yeah, he's really good player. Oh, yeah, he's really good. Of course. Anybody to take that. Okay, okay. He's really good. I love Bradley Beal. I love him. Tatum's great. We worry about some things late in games, and we have to prove. No, everybody does.

I have such a great comp coming up next. My favorite segment maybe ever next. For Tatum? I think you're going to love it. Don't give it away. I don't even know what it is. Oh, I love it. J. Mack with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. All right, something you didn't probably know or maybe don't know much about because I certainly didn't. Turf, AstroTurf, turf, all turf football fields. It's not AstroTurf anymore, but it can't be recycled. It's an enormous amount of landfill each year. It's bad for the environment, bad for the earth.

It also increases the risk of player injury, much more than grass fields. Well, we knew that too. How about this? Did you know this? 69% more non-contact foot and ankle injuries. That is brutal. Listen, all of us, we know this. Half the fields are turf.

It's bad for the kid. It's bad for the athlete. It's bad for the player. It's bad for the franchise. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlie. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made

these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches. We talk to players. We tell you stories. You download it. You listen to it. I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Alib on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday on Fox, Muky Betts and the Dodgers take on Nolan Aeronado and the Cardinals or Julio Rodriguez lead the Mariners against Ronald Acuna Jr.

and the Braves. Saturday at 7 Eastern 4 Pacific on Fox and the Fox Sports app. So he loves Jason Tatum. Jason McIntyre loves Jason Tatum. I like him a lot too. But I do think you can't deny the reality. Now, I'm not saying he's Kirk Cousins, who is what they call in the league a teeth clencher.

He gets really tight. He's 2 and 10 on Monday Night football. Like we have literally proof that Kirk Cousin shrinks in big spots. Andy Dalton did this. Doesn't mean they're bad guys. It's their reality. Nobody's saying Jason Tatum is that. But what I think he is, and the comp is pretty interesting, is a guy that we all love, but we're not quite honest about it yet, is Josh Allen quarterback for the bills. We think both Tatum and Josh Allen will win titles. Both could be this year, but it's silly to deny it. If you look at Josh Allen's playoff passer ratings, it is a roller coaster, 69, 121, 86, ugh, 80, 157, 136, 93, 68. That's Tatum. Tatum had no shots in the fourth quarter last night, at home, in a close game. That's insane.

He had two traveling calls and three turnovers in 90 seconds. He looked scared. That's insane. He's a star. At this point, it is silly to deny it. I think they'll both win titles. It both could be this year. They're both young and growing,

but they kind of are at this point what they are. Josh Allen is inconsistent and can be wild and make really bad decisions. Jason Tatum is refined and elegant and wonderfully talented. but can go hide in big spots. Josh Allen in 2022 playoffs, first round against New England, five touchdowns. He was amazing. Next round, he threw for 360 yards against Kansas City and lost just because he lost a coin flip. We thought he had moved to a new level.

And they came back last year and struggled at home against Miami and Cincinnati. And y'all were telling me that Jason Tatum dropping 51 against the quitters in Philadelphia, he's a new man until the next game when he didn't take a shot in the fourth quarter at home. That's who he is. Nobody's saying he's Kirk Cousins. He's Josh Allen. And at this point, it is ridiculous to deny what both are. Josh is wildly talented, but he's not as consistently and situationally excellent as Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes.

Period. Full stop. he's not he's wild he was wild in college he was wild early he was wild this year it's who josh allen is i think he'll win a super bowl i'd love to have him as my quarterback but he's not mahomes he's not burrow that way he's not as good situationally he's not as consistent he's not as accurate and he can be more wild than both with burrow and mahomes you get the greatness without the huge swings consistency. Tatum, he is fantastic. But he's not, he's not Curry consistently for eight years, big shot guy. Doesn't mean Curry didn't have bad games, but he's not a Michael. He's not

that aggressive. It's not what he is. And it doesn't shrink a lot. But I don't want to hear about guys having great games. Josh Allen can throw for 7,000 yards against the Houston Texans. what is he against the Chiefs? What is he against the Bengals? Jason Tatum needs to be judged on last night, more than a team that quit. That is not to take away Josh Allen's great 2022 playoffs. But if Tatum loses this series,

like Josh Allen lost to the Bengals at home, and they lose to Miami who they should beat, like the bills should have done Cincinnati at home, we changed our opinion, didn't we, on Josh Allen? A lot of Baylor's on that now. You tell me in a week, if this team loses this season, theories. What are you going to say? You're going to say the same thing you said about Josh

Allen. I love him, but that's all I'm saying with Tatum. Right now, Alan and Tatum, there's a big butt. We love him, probably going to win a title very soon. But there's a roller coaster in big spots that it's intellectually dishonest to deny it. Jason Tatum on their struggles last night. We got probably more pace. You know, I'm thinking the third quarter we kind of played too slow, mainly because we weren't getting stops. You know, in the fourth quarter, we made a couple of runs, got to push the ball. You know, and those go hand-to-hand with getting stops and getting out in transition.

So it starts on the defensive end. Just play with, you know, some more pace, play a little bit faster. Just saying. Oh, I saw this real quick. I love this. My favorite NFL article since the draft, Vic Tafer, the Athletic, wrote an article on over-unders. He took every team, they're over-under win total. He had about four teams that he called his best bet, and then Vic Tafer went down it.

So we agreed on a lot. His best bets, the jets under, the Broncos over, the Giants under, Buccaneers under. I agree with that. He has the Packers over, so he thinks they're going to win at least eight games. I don't think it's a strong bet. I kind of feel like that's true. By the way, he's also got things.

Now, J. Mack loves the Lions. He says, hold on, under nine and a half. He does love, we both love the Vikings under. So does he. He likes the Chargers over. So do we. I'm going to read you what he said about the Jets, though. He likes the under 9 and a half.

He says, we're not down in the Jets as much as we are down in the entire AFC East. It's a competitive bunch. Factor in that those teams get to play the AFC West and NFC East. Two are the tougher divisions. Rogers is now 40. Plenty left in the tank. The Jets have a nice roster, a sharp coach. But the first seven games of the year, while Rogers is still getting adjusted,

bills at Cowboys, Patriots, Chiefs at Broncos, Eagles, and Giants, You better have them at least four and three if you're taking the over. And Vic Tafers says, I don't. I don't think it's a strong bet either way because I have them nine or ten. I think it's going to go either way. I think if they're healthy, they'll win 10. If they get beat up in a key spot in the O line like last year, it's an eight, nine win team. But he also, by the way, you and I like the Broncos over eight and a half.

I think that's one of my stronger plays than one of yours. I like it. I don't love it. Listen, this guy taking shots at the jets. Come on, bro. Listen, that's cool. What's the saying? Opinions are like, everybody has one, right? By the way, time out.

Let's not freak out. That's not taking shots. That's called journalism and hard work. Journalism is straight opinion. Yeah, anyways. It's a small, Jay. Tatum is Josh Allen, huh? That's one of the better comps I've ever had.

Can I pass? Says who you? Yes. Listen, I don't hate it. I need to let it marinate for a minute. I'll just soak it in. Okay. Boy, that was like the worst 30-point game

anyone's ever had last night. We're crapping all over him for an hour. Guy had 30 points on 50% shooting. No shots, fourth quarter. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey, Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert

Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way,

the podcast's Superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.