The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd-HOUR-1-Kawhi Leonard, Leonard Fournette

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

Doug Gottlieb in for ColinKawhi Leonard is the best & the future of the NBA Leonard Fournette was a bad teammateThe NBA is beginning to no longer be funGuest: John Hollinger Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieg, live in Los Angeles.

From the epicenter of IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, where you're listening on your radio station on Sirius XM and your IHeart radio app. In for Colin Cowherd on a Monday. So know when Colin was right where Colin was wrong, although we could have done. done that. Why don't we do that? We had this long meeting. It was like a two-hour meeting and never once if we go, hey, we should do when Colin was right and wrong. Because Colin was both right and wrong about the Lakers. Like, what do you mean? Well, pick the Blazers until he picked the Lakers to win the series. John Hollinger is going to join us. Former Executive with the Grizzlies. We'll get his take on last night's otherworldly performance by Jamal Murray. I mean, are you kidding me, Jamal Murray? Are you kidding me? Are you

hid me. Remarkable. And like, it wasn't like Donovan Mitchell was bad, just Jamal Murray was a little bit better. The two of them, I mean, uh, Jamal Murray's nine of 12 from three point range. It's a good shooting, ducks. More on Jamal Murray to come. Leonard Fournet was cut today. I'll tell you what I think of that in 15 minutes. In one hour, what everyone is missing about the LA Lakers, what everyone is missing and has missed about the L.A. Lakers. So we got a lot to get to. Albert Brewer, will join us. Rich Hornberger, of course, used to play for the Patriots.

We'll get his take on a big injury over the weekend in the NFL, and we're a week and a half away from the kickoff of the NFL season. But let's get to this. So I was watching Kauai Leonard play yesterday, and he was magnificent, as he should be, right? Here's a guy who's a two-time finals MVP, the defending finals MVP, and yeah, I mean, I guess we can make a story of the Marcus Morris flagrant foul, which caused him to get ejected. But I prefer to sit there and tell you that Kauai Leonard, 33 points, 14 rebounds,

seven assists. Remember, he's the guy who was criticized because he wasn't, he's not nearly the passer of LeBron or of Hardin or of Luca. His assist numbers have always been down, and now you give him the basketball, and you say, hey, go make a play. Guess what? He has, in fact, improved his. a passer.

What's not seen in these stats is he's a tremendous defensive player. He's versatile. He's good on the ball. He's good in the low post. He's got good, long hand, big hands, obviously long arms, gets his hands on basketballs. Like he's, he kind of has a game that doesn't have many flaws, if any flaws. And he's in the prime of his career. And I would say that it stands to reason because of the time off due to quarantine,

he might be in the best shape physically he's been in in a couple of years. So if we start with the premise that, in truth, Kauai Leonard is the best player in the NBA. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a second, Gowling. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You were on this show and you said LeBron should be the MVP.

You probably won't because Janice will be the MVP. How can you now flip it and just get all caught up in hyperbole and say Kauai Leonard is the best player? Well, the best player isn't necessarily the MVP. The MVP is the guy who has the best season. and his team reflects that season. That would probably be, has the greatest impact on his team during the regular season.

That's the regular season MVP. And my, the reason I like LeBron is not just because of what he's accomplished, but the way in which he's led, what he's gotten out of his teammates at the best defensive team in the Western Conference, the best record of the Western Conference, and while he may not be at the peak of his career, turning around an entire franchise, much because of his play and his leadership,

I would go LeBron. People would go Yonis because they had the best record and he's had an unbelievable year. But if you said in one game, who would you want to have most on your team? My answer is Kauai Leonard at this point based upon how old LeBron is right now. And I find it hard for many people to argue with me because he plays both ends.

He's become an efficient three-point shooter. He's a better free-throw shooter than LeBron. He's a better post-score than LeBron. And the flaw in his game in comparison to LeBron is he's not the passer of LeBron. That's true. That's fine. But it's not like he doesn't pass and he does everything else, by my estimation, better than at the brunt.

At this point, maybe not in totality at peak LeBron, but we're not at peak of LeBron. Nobody would argue that. But I was thinking about this. History has a tendency to repeat itself. Those of us who study history know that we study it so that we don't make the same mistakes, yet people do make the same mistakes more than once. famously, Hitler made the same mistakes as Napoleon. Attack Russia in the winter, fought a war on two fronts, and lost.

There should be a lesson there, but apparently they didn't learn it. We continue to repeat ourselves in terms of government, the things that we do. We're in our country, in terms of our social issues. Yes, we've gotten far better than we used to be, but there still are some fallbacks that we go back to. We're like, man, we've actually seen this before. And the NBA is just like that. I don't know how much longer LeBron James plays. If you compare this age to Jordan's age,

Jordan was still the best player in the league, but he did a lot of it with his might, with his mind, with his guts, with his competitiveness. And then he retired only to come back later when he was an executive with the Wizards. LeBron feels like he's going to try and continue to play, maybe until Brani is potentially ready to be in the NBA, Although that, you know, it's hard for me to judge because I did see Brony play his last high school game of the season.

He barely got in. This is his team won the championship against modern day. But, you know, he's 14 years old. He's only going to get better. And he continues to improve and leaps and bounds. But if we would admit that LeBron is at the tail end of a magnificent career. And he has been overall the most or second most popular player throughout his run. say Steph Curry is the only other one that comes into comparison

in his stratosphere in terms of popularity. I'm wondering if the NBA is going to in fact repeat itself. I want you to stick with me for a second, right? Like I'm watching Kauai Leonard, and he dominates the game as they eliminate the Dallas Mavericks four games to two. Luca is amazing to watch. He's a tremendous player. He's just not as good at both ends

as Kauai Leonard is, even if shot making, passing, He might actually be better in those two aspects in comparison to Kauai. But if Kauai becomes the best player in the league and the clippers become the best team in the league, while they're not as milk toast as the spurs were with the best player being a guy who we got to drag a quote out of, there are some similarities. And then you factor in the rest of the league and how it's viewed by the mainstream public. If you look back on the 90s, the mid-90s and late 90s. 90s, when Michael Jordan retired, his last game with Chicago Bulls was the biggest,

there has not been a viewing audience as big since he retired. That was peak of popularity for the last 20 years in the NBA. But when he left, oh, that's 30 years, I guess. When he left, there was a void. And what was it replaced by? What was it replaced by? Remember, Michael Jordan used to wear a suit and tie to every, every game to every press conference.

Now, after he left, guys were a lot more casual. Guys wore whatever they wanted. And it kind of spiraled out of control. David Stern stepped in, put down a dress code. He was called a racist. Still is called a racist because of it, or that it has racial undertones because of it, when the truth is that the league went from the most popular

professional sports league in the country to the second or maybe even third best. Remember, steroids, home run, chase, baseball went through a run. of being very, very popular, especially 2000 through 2004 or five Yankees, Red Sox, unbelievable for the sport. So basketball was at its peak with Jordan. He retires. Who was he replaced by? Well, arguably the best player in the league was Tim Duncan, who was great at both ends

of the floor, who was efficient, who had no issues, who simply played and played to win and was not quotable, even if he was incredibly likable. Doesn't that sound a little bit like Kauai Leonard? Right? And then the rest of the league and how it was viewed in terms of pushing the envelope. And if you didn't like the way in which they dressed or they acted or the things they said,

you were called a racist or be racially insensitive. It became a little bit divisive. Look, I don't think David Stern was a racist for trying to make guys more acceptable to the mainstream public to the, to the, and I do think that some of our views on that have changed, right? Like you go back to 2000 and now very few people wear suit and tie to work. Very few people even wear, you know, you wear jeans with a sport coat. What is some of the most expensive shoes you can buy and that men,

are in fact sneakers. Sneakers have become very acceptable in the workplace. But instead of being viewed based upon how we dress now, sometimes now it's our political affiliation, or it's just a way in which we purport ourselves in terms of what's important to us. Again, I'm not sitting here attacking NBA players for their views or their outspokenness on their views. What I'm simply telling you is, if you think all the customers take it the same way, you're wrong, which is the exact same thing as when guys were dressing in whatever gear they wanted to. Look, I was in and then out of college at the time, and the clothes they wore were the clothes that many of them I wanted to wear. But it was how it landed with Middle America.

and that that combined with essentially a mute superstar in Tim Duncan combined with other factors, baseball and home runs and steroids and football suddenly gaining a popularity because of fantasy football and gambling, etc. And of course, the Red Zone, I think, change football and how it's viewed forever. What I can watch all the games and never change the channel? Yes, please.

And here we are again where basketball is not at the same level of popularity as it was back with Jordan, but still very popular. We're a week away from it competing with the NFL during their playoffs and the NFL's kickoffs to their season at the exact same time. Look, I'm not sitting here predicting gloom and doom, but if there is gloom and doom, I think you can see the parallel as to why. And that's no disrespect to Kauai Leonard, who is magnificent, much like Tim Duncan was magnificent.

Kauai has to do a lot. He's their best player. Paul George is up and down. Something's going on there with his mental health. Lou Williams has never truly understood how to win, and so there's some flaws there, even though he's a great score. They don't have great interior play. Maybe that matchup hurts them against the Lakers.

I can't tell you. But what I can tell you is, if you ask people, hey, who's the best player in the league? One, you have to play both ends, and Luca and some of those others do not. He does. He's a tremendous score who's learning to be a pastor. He's a great rebounder. He's your best player. But I don't know how it lands with the American public if that's the way we go.

Coming up next. It doesn't matter how talented you are. If you are not a good teammate or if you're a bad teammate, the NFL isn't for you. Just another case in that. I'll prove it to you. I'm coming next. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

This is The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of The HARD. days in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered, competition.

conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at a podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what?

went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. They're finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app,

search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Doug Al-Lean for Colin, this is The Herd. John Hollinger will join us. We'll get to John Gullet with the news upcoming. I guess Prince of Macamuro just got cut as well from the Raiders. They're like, I remember him. Yeah, I remember the Prince.

Here's a blast from the not so distant past. Leonard Fournett was released today. Leonard Fournett was released today. Which I guess we're supposed to be surprised by, but we really shouldn't. Right? I mean, look, the Jaguars general manager is a guy named David Caldwell. He's in his eighth year. That's kind of remarkable, right?

Considering the ups and downs of the Jacksonville Jaguars, we'll get to that later in the show. But David Caldwell said, hey, look, we tried to trade him. We tried to trade him for basically anything, anything anybody would give us. And we couldn't get anything for him this offseason. Nothing. Fifth round pick, sixth round pick, seven round pick. Now, part of it is he makes $4 million before being waived. And if he's signed off waivers, he'll make that $4 million. If not, clears waivers, then, you know, all bets are off. What's interesting about Fournet is if I told you, or maybe I asked you, how many catches did you think Leonard Fournet had?

Leonard Fournet had. Last year, he had 76 receptions. Like, he has a reputation of a guy who, well, you know, he really can't catch it out of the backfield. Now, I don't know about his blocking. guessing it's not great because if he catched 76 times out of the backfield, that would stand a reason, stand a reason that you'd be pretty effective.

In 15 games last year, he ran for over 1,000 yards. In 15 games last year, he had 76 catches. Granted only 522 yards. So why would Jacksonville, and by the way, they traded Ingokwe around to the Minnesota Vikings earlier yesterday

and now they outright release Leonard Fournet. So they are cleaning house. But why would you get rid of Ingaquay who was on a franchise tag and he took $6 million less to be a Viking? And then why would you cut Leonard Fortin?

Well, Yannick Ingaqwe was seen as a pain in the butt. right, it was. He wanted a huge contract. He complained openly on social media. He wasn't happy in Jacksonville. Then you got Fournette. They declined his fifth year option, which means he would have been a free agent at the end of this year. He had complained openly about the team. And now he gets cut. What does it mean? He's a thousand yard back entering his fourth year in the league. He had 76 catches last year. And I know that you think of him and you're like, well, he's Adrian Peterson in that he doesn't really catch it out of the backfield.

But last year, obviously, statistically, says otherwise. Now, he doesn't have the burst of Christian McCaffrey. He's not a matchup, mismatch out if you line him up out wide. He's generally a typical downhill, one-cut, old-school running back who's added the ability to at least catch the football out of the backfield to his game. Why is he gone? They don't like him. Or he doesn't like being there.

And if you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, and you know, this is a rebuilding year, you're the Jacksonville Jaguars and you said to yourself, hey, if we're going to be bad, at least we're going to enjoy going to work. Whether it's the players voting you off the island as they did with Earl Thomas, or whether it's the team just saying it's going to be a tough year, we don't need a guy who doesn't or two guys who don't want to be here, let's just vote them off the island kind of quickly. That man, how telling you are. You're not seen as a great team. teammate in the NFL these days, culture wins. It absolutely wins. You have to be so incredibly good or have such a ridiculously untradable, uncutable contract that they won't move on from you.

Otherwise, culture wins. That's what the Leonard Ford net thing. He's not hurt. He can catch. He can run. He's not making a ton of money. What is it? Got to be personality.

Let's get you to John Gullet with the news. This is the herd line news. Doug, during the Clippers game 6 win over the Mavs yesterday, huge surprise, Marcus Morris committed a flagrant foul on Luca Danschich. Towards the end of the first quarter, Morris hit him in the head, going to the basket. He received a flagrant two foul and was ejected. Here was Luca Donschitz after the game talking about the foul.

I mean, it's terrible fault, you know. I'm going to say it's two games in a row if he did something like that. And I really didn't. I hope so the first game, it wasn't a purpose. But looking back at the fall of this game, you know what I think. So I don't want to deal with that kind of players. Just move on. What was your reaction to Morris going after Luca again?

Well, I do think that in that particular play, Luca initiated contact, right? Which is part of the thing with offense is that if you initiate it, if you initiate it and there's no offensive foul called again, against you. Oftentimes, there'll be an overreaction from the defense and that's what happened. But I don't know, my read on it is what I think most basketball people's read on it was they're trying to get him to back down. It's almost, it's almost out of respect for what he does, right? It's almost out of respect for how good Luca is that they're going to try and rough him up.

Because that's what older guys do to young stars all the time in baseball. Remember Cole Hamils came out and said he was going to throw at Bryce Harper, just for no other reason other than it kind of, just didn't like him. Just didn't like him and just, you know, easy, easy young fella. That feels like what Marcus Morris did. And, you know, I don't love the fake tough guy act. I do know what he brings to the table. But, you know, do I think the NBA has gone soft in comparison to how playoff fouls used to be?

Sure. But you go after somebody's head. Remember, for a flagrant two to stick all the. the officials have to agree. They all agreed. So it wasn't that hard to call. Well, plus the previous incidents, he's clearly going after one specific player, like you said. So on Saturday, the Blazers entertaining bubble run came to an end, losing 131, 122 to the Lakers in game five. One of the big surprises of the bubble was a skinny version of Carmelo Anthony showing up and being an offensive contributor for the Blazers.

He averaged 15 a game in the series, although it's a little bit off because he actually had one bad. game. He only scored two points. He scored much more as a series went along. And he talked about not only wanting to continue playing, but continue playing where he is. Honestly, think that I found a home in Portland. You know, I got comfortable with the organization. I got comfortable with the guys on the team. They got comfortable with me. And at this point in my career, I do think that that's the best fit for me, the best situation, especially having this experience now. Would you like to see Mello stick with the Blazers,

or do you think he showed enough where maybe a team that's more of a title contender will want to add him for offense off the bench? This is going to hurt a lot of people's feelings. Who good? Okay. It is. But the Portland Trailblazers were in the Western Conference finals last year. They had to fight, scratch, claw to get into the playoffs

based upon the heroics of Damien Lillard. And then they're beating four games to won the first round. Granted by a very good Lakers team. I think he got exposed. I don't think he can play at a high level as a starter anymore. Yes, his last two games, he shot the ball well. But it's not necessarily how many. You can't be a zero-sum or a negative-sum player.

Right. Like, I don't know if you saw this article that was out earlier today, but when he was on the floor for the series, they were like a minus 74. When he was off the floor, they were a minus 14. That's a big difference. He didn't shoot the ball well at all, the first three games of the series.

I think he's shooting 35% from the field, 33% from three point range. So he's a high volume guy, a low efficiency guy, but more than anything, can't really guard anybody. Do I think he fits in Portland? Yeah.

But remember, you've got to play at like 1.25% of your salary is what they can pay him. And that would be, you know, basically the league minimum. If he's willing to take that role or maybe have an lesser role, then yeah, he can still play. He can still shoot. He just, he has to play more against backups than against starters

because that's the way he can score and that's the way he can stop people. And finally, Chargers Safety, Derwin James, is likely to miss significant time with a meniscus injury. He suffered yesterday in practice. He's awaiting a second opinion on the injury. He missed 11 games last season after being an all pro in his rookie year in 2018. Chargers have a crazy talented defense, but they seem to always have problems with injuries. Doug, you are the lone national media member who identifies as a Chargers fan.

How concerned are you? I identify as a male. I identify as a Charger fan. How concerned are you? He's a great player. He's their best player. He's arguably the best defense player in the league. He's a game changer.

And he was hurt half of last year, more than half of last year as well. And it was a preseason injury. Yes. It's Groundhog Day for the Chargers. You know, Bosa, then him, that him, very concerned. Because the whole plan was like, hey, Tyrod Taylor can run around, be athletic, got a bunch of weapons. Won't lose you a game. Won't lose you a game.

Won't turn it over. Last year what killed them was Philip Rivers throwing it to the other team and then play to the strength of the defense. And now the best defensive player you have is out for a significant amount of time. That's a devastating injury. This is why other people aren't Charger fans. This is true. That's John Gulley with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. John Hollinger is our guest. He's a former NBA executive with the Grizzlies. Of course, you can read his work in The Athletic. I know that we love the idea that the whole league missed on Mello. The whole league missed. But I felt like he got exposed in the playoffs for what he is.

A guy who can still score, but mostly in a football. efficiently and he can't score enough to make up for the fact that before he didn't want to guard anybody. Now I don't know how much he wants to, but he just can't guard anybody. I think, John, he's a guy who, you know, mainstream fans look at and they look at the final box score and they don't realize the things he gives up at the other end. Where are you on Mello and where he stands now in his career? So I think I kind of go from both polls. like he was pretty bad in Houston and Oklahoma City.

He was definitely better in Portland. He got in better shape, put in more of an effort on defense, but he was never an amazing defensive player even in his prime, and now he's no longer in his prime, clearly. Now what he has done is he shot the three more willingly and effectively, and I think that's given him a little more of a role offensively, especially when he plays the four. But, I mean, the biggest thing with just him going to Portland

was their power forwards were killing them with Zach Collins being out and some other guys that signed in the off season were ineffective. So that was the best option available to him. And, you know, he helped him get into the playoffs. But at the end of the day, like, what is his role on a good team? Certainly not as a starter. I mean, is he like another guy who can be useful as a bench guy? Yeah, I think he's still probably that.

But that's all he is at this point. I tend to agree with you. And then the playoffs do expose you, right? Like it's a higher level of basketball. And you might be able to hide one guy defensively, but it has to be your best player that you got to hide. Well, I mean, in Portland, I mean, they had to hide the whole team. It was the problem they had.

I mean, they were just even in the seeding games, I mean, they were getting cooked defensively. It was just Lillard was so awesome offensively that they were able to overcome it. Did you see the Jamal Murray outburst coming? Like, has he been close to this good? previously in his NBA career? No, I mean, he's had nights where he's done this, but never consistently over a period of games like this.

I mean, this has been, him and Mitchell both, I mean, the back and forth between those two has been spectacular. And it's funny because coming in, you thought, here's the matchup of what are arguably the two best centers in the league, and that would really be the focus. And Yokic versus Gobert is completely, we've been the side show and instead it's Mitchell versus Murray just putting on these incredible fireworks. It's the first time in any postseason, not in any postseason series in any postseason

at all where there's been two players with multiple 50-point games and it's been in these six games in this series that it's happened. Two of them by each Mitchell and Murray. And I don't think the defense has been bad. Like the shots. Exactly. It hasn't been great. Both these teams are better at offense, the defense. But it hasn't been terrible. It's a shot making. I've never said, like, listen, John, you and I have watched and you've evaluated. I've watched and played and evaluated some basketball for a long time.

I cannot believe the level of skill that we've seen from those two specifically. I mean, look, the entire league, you know, there's, you know, from Lillard's range and obviously what Steph does when he's healthy. But the shot making of, like, Jamal Murray last night. I mean, he steps back at good six feet for a step back three there at the end. Then shot clock's running. The ball deflected. He won dribble left, pull up three. I mean, it is really remarkable to see how well these guys shoot the basketball, the shots they make.

Yeah, they're both shooting over 55 percent from three for the series. And virtually all the shots have been off the dribble, a lot of them with a contest. I mean, these are not lick your fingers, catch and shoot threes from the corner. these are difficult shots and they're making all of them. John Hollinger joining us, former NBA executive. He writes for the athletic. He joins us here in the herd, Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin. All right, let's get to the Lakers.

Before the series, I thought, as you pointed out, Portland doesn't stop anybody and they really don't have anybody to stop LeBron or Anthony Davis. But five games, it takes them five games to eliminate the trailblazers. What's your takeaway watching the Lakers play? I don't think they were seriously tested. I mean, they lost game one because they missed every single outside shot. And that felt a little fluky to me. But the shooting is the biggest concern without a question is, can they get enough space on the floor for LeBron and Davis to operate?

So it's going to be on as these series get harder. They're probably going to play Houston next round. And then if they get by them, the clippers, they need guys like Danny Green, Contagius, Caldwell Pope, Alex Caruso, to make enough three-point shots that the floor stays open for LeBron and Davis to do their thing. Same question for the Clippers. I thought that obviously Luca had some superhuman effort, but they're not a very good defensive team. Of course, you don't have Prozingis for half that series.

It really hurts their chance to win it. But I watched, and as much as I'm blown away by Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell, even LeBron and Anthony Davis, the efficiency and suddenly the passing of Kauai Leonard combined with what he does at the defensive end. Granted, they weren't great at times in terms of paying attention defensively in the series, but I feel like Kauai being healthy now seems to try to be maybe solidifying himself as actually the best overall player in league.

I know Yannis or LeBron takes home the MVP, but just in watching, especially last night, I'm watching Kauai feel like he's the best part in the league. He was just a killer yesterday, wasn't he? And I mean, he's such a good two-way player. Like his defense is as imposing as his offense. And then the clippers have a lot of weapons around him. So you can't just lock in everything on Kauai because they have shooters, they have guys you can finish at the rim.

So, I mean, they've just put a really good team. around him. But for them to be able to survive Paul George not being able to make a shot the first four games. And then obviously once George got going, Dallas had no answers at that point. I still think the Clippers are the favorites to come out of the West just because I think Kauai at a high level can play as well as anyone. And then the rest of their team is better than, say, the Lakers or Houston or whoever

they might face in a conference finals. Yeah. I like Boston coming out of the Toronto series anyway, but of course, I loved watching Toronto play up until this point. I know it's just one game in. Obviously, the Celtics end up beaten Toronto. But what are your thoughts on that matchup and how it plays out? Yeah, see, I liked Boston in that series too. I think the matchup is a bad one for Toronto.

Boston is very good in transition defense where Toronto tends to be most effective in transition offense. If you make Toronto play in half court, they're not nearly as effective. And then Boston's big weakness is their lack of size. Toronto doesn't really have the personnel to take advantage of that. And so I just think it's not, even with Hayward being out, it's just not a great matchup for Toronto. And that was why I had picked Boston coming into the series. And when they played earlier in the bubble, it played out exactly the same way that Toronto had to score on the half court on them and they couldn't. I'm sure they'll shoot a little better than they did yesterday and Siakum won't get 3,000 in the first half and whatever.

Yesterday was like the disaster version of what you would normally expect. But I still think it's a matchup where they're on the negative side most nights. Do you think Miami can legitimately take down Milwaukee? I don't think they can beat them. No. I don't think they have enough, like, high-level talent to do that. I think they can scare them. I think they can do enough things matching up against Giannis to make his life sort of difficult.

They can put them out of bio on him. They have enough guys who are in, like, that 6-7, 6-8 range that they can have a crowd his vision a little bit and make things a little harder for him. But at the end of the day, I don't think they can score enough against Milwaukee's defense. The Bucks are an awesome awesome defensive team. Miami gets a lot of mileage out of Jimmy Butler getting himself to the foul line. I don't know how effective that will be against Milwaukee. So it's going to be interesting, I think. I could definitely see it getting to six games, but I just can't see Miami prevailing over a seven-game series.

Help me out with something. John Hollander joined us from the NBA executive, right through the athletic, an analytics expert for all. long time evaluating the league. This is not a numbers thing, right? We agree that the defense hadn't been great in the bubble, the offense has been spectacular. But I listened to Paul George last week after he finally broke out of his kind of malaise,

and he basically talked about his mental health. And then I listened to Jamal Murray, and look, I respect the fact that the cause, the social justice cause that the league is focused on is a motivator for him. but I didn't get the sense of happiness or joy. Like, I'm not sure all of these guys. And remember, whoever wins this thing is going to be in the bubble for another month and a half. Yeah. Are we, like, I did think this, and I had some other people in the league tell me they didn't know how guys' mental health would be.

I feel like we're starting to see some kind of frayed edges here, especially with everything that took place last week. Yeah, I think you're right about that. Now, what's going to help these guys once I get to the. second round, they will have their families with them or at least a couple of family members. Teams that get past the first round, get to have, I think it's between one and three loved ones join them in the bubble. So I think that will help somewhat. But yeah, I mean, it's weird, man. Like, it's a contrived environment a little bit. And I got to give, you know, these teams credit that when you get down 3-0 or 3-1, it's the easy.

thing to say, okay, one three Cancun, you know, especially when you, you know, you can get out of the bubble. And so for a team like the Nuggets to rally back from that, I think it's pretty impressive. Yeah, really speaks to their team, really speaks, frankly, to the leadership of that team as well. I could not agree with you more. John, great stuff. Look forward to reading more in the athletic. Thanks for being our guest in the herd. All right, thanks, Doug. All right, that's John Hollinger. Does an excellent job. Read his stuff in the athletic, follow him on social media as well. Something I noticed in the NBA last night, I think, it's significant. It's a little bit of what I was talking about with John. I'll get to you

next in The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was, having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. We pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more. important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. This is The Herd, wherever you may be listening, however you may be making this part of your day.

My thanks to John Hollinger, Albert Breer will join us from the MMQB. Get his thoughts on Leonard Fournett. Does he have an immediate future? What about Earl Thomas? also out on the street. I had an interesting discussion with a GM this week about Earl Thomas and the viability of bringing him into a locker room. You'll be interested to hear what I learned.

Top of the hour, I'll tell you what everyone missed from the Lakers, four to one series win over the Portland Trailblazers. Let me go back to last night where you had an unbelievable performance from Jamal Murray. And look, if you didn't watch that, that's okay. Like, we can't do, I know that Colin and I, we have a tendency to do. And what rates the best? What do people watch the most? Those are the most relevant topics of the day.

And I don't expect you to fall in love with Denver and Utah and watch that series. I will point out that, like, Donovan Mitchell had 44 points, and it feels like he didn't even play in the game because Jamal Murray had 50 on 24 shots. about that for a second. Nine of 12 from three. The only odd part was he actually missed a couple free throws. How can he be 17 of 24, 9 of 12 from 3

have 50, 6 assists, and five rebounds, and missed a couple of free throws. But he was remarkable. But I want you to listen to his really emotional post-game discussion. When you fight for something, you know, it means a whole lot more.

And, you know, we've been fighting this fight for a long of time and we're tired of being tired and like I said I go out there and I fight for something when I lose I go out there and fight for something look I'm not in any way diminishing

the fight for social justice the way that many of these players want to continue to make this front and center and I do think this flies directly in the face of those players who said we shouldn't go it takes away from the cause like how

you have two networks solely dedicated to your games and then your post game press conference you can say whatever you'd like but what I will point out is what is the point of what we're doing right like we do this with radio all the time like we could do the serious political show you know in terms of sports and politics and owners and what they can do but how fun would that be

wouldn't be fun I understand that players want to be more than just seen as a guy who puts a ball through a hoop. Got it. Like, you're a real human being. But your skill, your gift, your talents that you have clearly worked at and refined and honed to be among the best. There's 450 NBA players on Earth. 8 billion people, 450 NBA players. you are the select few who can do this.

And Jamal Murray, you're talking about one of the 20, 25 best human beings on the planet to play basketball. Pretty powerful stuff. You just had 50. An elimination game. How about it being a little bit of fun? Look, I struggle with this. There's a clandestine AAU tournament. and I had a group that was supposed to play up.

I put both of my teams up a grade, but then I end up like, you know, it's still kind of summer. And I didn't have even half of my kids. I got one on a trip here, one on a trip there, one's doing something else, one's playing baseball, etc. And so we, Saturday we took a pummeling, lost all four games. It was, that's hard to do. And then yesterday we managed to win a couple of games.

And I walked out and I was like, you know, I got to do a better job of it being more fun. It's supposed to be fun. Winning is fun. Playing is fun. It is a, like, we lose track of this thing. Well, I don't want to be just some guy to give you entertainment. Hey dude.

Hey, Bub, that's your job. It's a really, really well-paying job. It gives you a huge platform to share your thoughts or whatever. But just one thing that's missing. There wasn't one mention. of that was fun. I'm hitting jumpers in Rudy Gobert's eye. Like the defensive player of the year.

He's seven feet tall, long arms, big hands, and he has the ability to guard guards, except Jamal Murray. Couldn't guard Jamal Murray. Nobody could guard Jamal Murray. Like, you come out of the, however you want to characterize the zone that a guy's in, just honed in,

locked in. And there wasn't one, you know, look, and we're here for a cause, but man, that was fun. Nothing. And so as we try to keep politics sort of in, sort of out of sport, the one thing that it's done is kind of taking the fun out of it. Kind of taking the fun out. There's something something everybody's missing

about the Likers. We'll get back to the Jamal Murray stuff a little bit later on the show. I have thoughts for you on now the late, great John Thompson, of course, the coach of Georgetown, he passed away. We also lost Lute Olson as well. I mean, just 2020 can kiss my hind end. But the Lakers get rid of the Portland Trailblazers. The thing that everybody's missing about the Lakers.

I'll share with you next. I'm Doug Gottlie, but this is the hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived this. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.