The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 1 - Looking at the NFL Draft, Harbaugh is the king of NY, Dusty May

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

Colin Cowherd looks at the NFL Draft and why he has major questions about the Jets ability to make the right pick at #2 overall. He talks about John Harbaugh remaking the Giants in his first season their head coach and why it’s clear he’s running the show, not the general manager. Plus, Michigan head coach Dusty May joins the show fresh off their National Championship win over UConn to explain why he immediately turned to recruiting after celebrating their title.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I found out today that in the whole Fox Sports Radio Division, my guy Ryan, Martin back in L.A., myself, all top of the food chain for our brackets, So, Middilkoff, I know everybody, you're a football guy, but boy, some of this is going to seep over to you. By next year at this time, you're going to be winning your March badness bracket. Got a lot of Brainiacs here on the staff with Hoots. Mine did not go well. I had St. John's making a run in Petino. I didn't make it for.

Well, okay, one hour from now, Dane Bruegler comes on the show. He released today. It's called The Beast at the Athletic. A highly comprehensive look at the NFL draft, which as of tomorrow, is two weeks away. And I think the most interesting discussion is the edge rushers. It's a very good edge rusher draft. And there are three in particular.

Arvel Reese, Ohio State is the high ceiling guy, but doesn't yet have a position. And then there's David Bailey, who's the safe pick. He's a plug-and-play guy. That's my guy. And then Rubin Bain could be better than all of them. You know, they worry about his measurables. I don't. I think he's going to be a great NFL player.

but if I was the Jets, this is the position and this is the pick, the number two pick. This is the position and pick that's fascinating. If I was the Jets ownership or general manager, I would pick David Bailey. Because I don't think Aaron Glenn knows what he's doing, and I think he's going to be gone either midseason or next season. And people will say, well, you can't go with this safe pick at number two. Well, I invest in real estate and stocks. Many of you invest in Bitcoin. Sometimes I like just being comfortable.

Okay. Edge rushers, and I love them, do not win Super Bowls. Max Crosby, Miles Garrett, T.J. Watt. I think their playoff record is 1 and 6. You can look it up, but I'm committed to memory on that. I think it's 1 and 6. You've got to get three things right in this league to win Super Bowl. Super Bowls, head coach, quarterback, and above average left tackle.

If those are all really, really good, you go win Super Bowls without a great edge rusher. It's nice to have a nice situational pass rush, but how many great pass rushers did Belichick and Brady have? I mean, top of the food chain, Miles Garrett, that, no, they just got pressure situationally on the opposing quarterbacks. What the Jets can't do with number two is have another bust or somebody they can't figure out. Because they already had two of those with Zach Wilson and Mackay Bechton. And Mackay Bechton is really instructive. He was the tackle that had some weight issues, but everybody said, oh my God, he is. His ceiling is a hundred stories high.

He's mostly a bust. bounce around the league guy. You know who was picked two picks after him? Just another boring, strong Iowa guy, Tristan Worf's. John remembers that. He was a right tackle. He was viewed only as a right tackle. You know, he was a strong guy, but a Bechton.

Foo! Becton. Bechtin to have luggage will travel. Tristan Wirthes is a monster. Just another great Iowa NFL player. So here's the thing. If you have the head coach and quarterback right, and the Jets don't, but I think it's very possible in one year from today, they will.

What you want to do is have really good football players. And the Jets need about seven to eight really good football players. What they don't need is a guy that was great at the combine, is blows you away on YouTube, but he doesn't have a position. Now, it's the Jets. So who knows what they'll do? But I go back to Bitcoin, bros, right? Like, why don't you get stable before you try to get rich?

The average American millionaire gets there at 61. Even at 51, that's remarkable. Most people aren't millionaires. The Jets are always overswinging. The Browns are always overswinging. Just go get a really good football player. This idea that you can't hit doubles in life. why not?

I mean, again, there are times to be super aggressive. And then there are times, like when you're a bad football operation, dude, hit a bunch of doubles off the wall. Daniel Jeremiah used to work for the Ravens. And that was kind of the Ravens theory that you can win a lot of games without hitting a ton of home runs in the draft. Here's Daniel. We'll live with doubles off the wall all day long.

We don't need to take a wild swing. we can't afford to miss in the first round. So with the Bailey Reese debate, which I think is a fascinating one, I think for 26, for sure, no question, it's Bailey, and that's how I have them stacked up. But if you're the Jets and everything's kind of pointing towards 27, where they have those three first round picks, and if they want to take a swing on somebody that does have more ceiling,

more upside, and they're not really going to be a competitive team here in 26, I could see them getting to Reese as their pick. For me personally, I would take Bailey. Yeah, I would take Bailey. By the way, my staff updated me. Garrett, Crosby, and T.J. Watt are one and eight in the playoffs. You know who's not one and eight in the playoffs? Teams with great O lines.

Like, this idea that you can't play it safe in the draft, if you're getting to a position, that's an important position, but it's not coach, it's not quarterback, it's not left tackle. In this day and age, it's not an, elite weapon. It's not an interior defensive lineman where there are just not many body types like that. I would go David Bailey first. Now, Rvel Reese at number four with Robert Sala. Oh, I like that. Because Robert Sala took smoke and mirrors, Bondo and Band-Aids and peanut brittal last year in San Francisco, and had very good defense. I trust Robert Sala to take an Rvel

Reese. I do not trust currently the New York Jets. I saw this story speaking to New York. Dexter Lawrence, good defensive lineman for the Giants, wants a new contract, made it public. And the headline in this story is the Dexter Lawrence situation becomes the first test of the Joe Shane John Harbaugh relationship. You could just put Harbaugh's name in that headline and not Joe Shane. The relationship, the The relationship is John Harbaugh calls the shots. Let me simplify it. Head coaches make between $9 and $15 million a year. GMs make between two and four.

The owner listens to the GM. Sean Payton wanted wide receiver Jalen Waddle. He got him. Spent a lot of money on him. GM probably pushed back. Sean wanted him. They got him. The Giants historically,

this has always been the book on the New York Giants and the Maras, is that it's the head coach. Top of the food chain, and then it goes, the construct of it is that, then the coach is down the list. The head coach ran it. But remember, Harbaugh, the jets were such a mess. Tennessee wanted John Harbaugh, and they were going to give him a lot of power. But he wanted the Giants, and he said, well, that I want to get power.

So John Harbaugh took the Giants job, and it's kind of understood in the building that Joe Shane is a highly compensated, very powerful scout, and Harbaugh's running the show. as good as Les Sneed is in Los Angeles and he's exceptional. Sean McVeigh, in the big moments, calls the shots. There are very few powerful GMs in this league. John Snyder in Seattle's got a lot of juice and momentum. Howie Roseman, probably the most powerful. Brett Veach, all the trophies.

But the Cleveland owner wanted Shindor Sanders drafted. They drafted him. I mean, Liam Cohen had never been a coach, high school, college, anywhere, ever. and Liam Cohen said he was a hot coaching prospect never been a coach head coach and he goes okay I'll go to Jacksonville you got to fire the GM they fired the gym that's the way the game works so I think I think Joe Douglas got housed with a jets I actually I didn't like the Zach Wilson pick at all or Mackay Beckton but I thought he had a lot of good picks do you think he wanted to fire Robert Sala in like week five of course not he would overridden the Minnesota

Vikings today do not have a general manager. You know who's going to run the draft? The coach, Kevin O'Connell. So John Harbaugh, the relationship is this. John's the boss and Joe nods his head, and if John wants something, John gets it. That doesn't mean they can't like discuss. It doesn't mean Joe Shane isn't capable with his staff of doing some really smart things, but it's John's organization. And that's the only way he was going to take that job because Tennessee was interested and was going to give them all sorts of power. And this is where I'll defend the NFL coaches. I think there's an order to things. But if college head coaches, if Kurt Signetti can run all his personnel, what the NFL guys are saying is college guys are doing it.

I've been in the league 15 years. I want some say on this stuff. And in a lot of instances, McVeigh has a very good eye for talent. Sean Payton has a good eye for talent. I would rather have a GM make, I would rather it go in order ideally, but that's not what's happening with the New York Giants. And that's not what's happening right now in the NFL. There are times, have you noticed with Denver? And I think their GM's capable, more than capable, smart guy.

Every time you say they reached on a guy, it's always a skill player in Denver. Harvey shouldn't go second round. Sean wanted him. Jalen won. That's a lot. Sean wanted him. That's the way it works in Denver. So here was John Harbaugh last week on the Dexter Lawrence trade.

request out of New York. Speaking for the Giants, we want Dexter here, and I believe Dexter wants to be here. You know, that's a good formula. But there's business involved. It's a business proposition. We know it's pro football. These things happen every year, pretty much on every team, so not surprised by it. Saw it coming a few weeks back, probably, and good conversations with Dexter's agent,

Joel Siegel, and understood what they were thinking, and this is where we're at. So just try to work through it. And they put John Harbaugh on the mic for that. John Harbaugh on the Zoom call for that. John Harbaugh to speak for the Giants on that. That's the relationship. You know, I had to defend, it's unbelievable. Yesterday I had to fight off Yukon fans about, you know, the officials who really handed Michigan a national championship.

So I went last night. And I just started YouTube and look. up the Michigan-U-Con game. I got to six fouls on Yukon that weren't called. One of them is right before half when the Michigan guy gets knocked over, heaves it toward the basket, and they didn't call it. Now, I wasn't deeply bothered by it. I said going into the game, guys, whoever loses is going to blame the officials. The officials are going to let a lot of stuff go. So whoever is stronger and bigger has the advantage. And of the two teams, usually it's Yukon against Michigan. It was Michigan.

Dusty May is stopping by today, the Michigan coach. Also, you know, there's a bunch of interesting stuff today. Again, Dave Buegler tomorrow, top or today, top of the hour, 45 minutes. Tomorrow I'm going to give you my

probably final mock draft based on what I'm hearing, what I'm guessing, what I'm thinking, and who I would pick. David Bailey would be my number two pick. But it's interesting, you know, the NBA drafts going to be the best draft in the NBA, and I'm not a historian on drafts in the NBA. I think it's the best NBA draft I remember. I'll leave it at that.

I remember. I think there's like eight really good players. Like that could be, I mean, that could literally be all stars, eight guys, and it wouldn't take that long. But the one player, and you're starting to hear people chip away at him, I actually think in the new NBA, Not the old one, the new one. The things that people like about him really work. And somebody's going to steal him at about the 11th, 12th, or 13th picker thereabouts. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

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We created our own podcast called. Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genschen went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. It's going to be an incredible NBA draft, and I want to talk about this. Dusty May is coming on today. It's very interesting. Yaxel Lendaborg.

So he's a fascinating player. People are concerned for a couple of things. But when I looked his strengths up, they said, offensive versatility, defensive versatility, and improved shooting. The big question is, well, he's not really explosive. And that's what's interesting. I think in the old NBA, that mattered a lot more. But the best player in the NBA easily right now is Yokic. Would you describe him as explosive?

Luca and SGA. The SGA is more explosive than he gets credit for. I wouldn't term him explosive. You know who else has never been called explosive? Steph Curry. Here's explosive guys. J. Morant and Zion. Zach Levine, who just got the bag,

Stevie Francis, John Wall, Derek Rose. They all aged really quickly. That's what you get with explosive guy. Is that when I look at what the NBA is now, there's three or four things that jump out to me. Number one is the game is really fast. I need really good decision makers, high IQ decision makers.

games going warp speed. But what it really is now is a skill shooting scheme league. That's what it is. Skill shooting scheme. I'll give you an example. Aaron Gordon was in Orlando. He was an athletic freak. And he jumped his way right out of Orlando.

They traded him. When he became a better passer and shooter and a more refined offensive player, Aaron Gordon now is essential to Denver. He got smarter. He became a better. shooter, he refined his skills. Now Aaron Gordon is a must-have player, a great NBA player. In Orlando, man, look at those hops. And they're nothing wrong with that. But Vince Carter, no rings, never NBA all-first team is the definition of explosive. And I love Vince. Nice guy, great player.

No first team all NBA. Blake, by the way, zero All-Star games after 30. Athletic guys. age quick. Blake Griffin, five of his six, All-Star teams, 25 years and younger. Again, once he started shooting, I started really liking

Blake Griffin. So, you know, when I look at Yax-Lenneborg, my take is 6-9, 240, really bright, runs the floor, one of those scheme-fit everywhere, guys.

Again, I'm not saying he's top seven pick. I have a hard time. believing he has any bust in him. I think he's a big dude who runs the floor and can hit a three. That's the new NBA. It's amazing. When you look at the most explosive guys in league history, obviously Jordan is one of them. He almost comes across as an outlier. A lot of the explosive guys, they don't end up with rings. They win slam dunk contests. They're our favorite players. And again, MJ and Kobe, absolutely. I'm not.

saying I'm not looking for some Twitch, you know, or some length. But I have a hard time. I remember when Zach Eadie came into the league. Well, you know, he doesn't move well enough. And I'm like, he was unstoppable in college. He's a smart kid. I think he's going to be able to play in the NBA. And I think I can't see Axel not working. I just can't see it. We'll ask Dusty May in 15, 20 minutes. John Middlough with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the heard-line news. Well, we know, you talked about GMs earlier. One guy we know who is in charge, and that's Jerry Jokes.

And he likes to stir some things up because he talks a lot. And speaking at the league meetings, Jerry said he won't shy away from making some moves on draft day. I've looked at that mirror a lot about how to go up and down and trade and do those kinds of things. And absolutely will entertain improving. or an end draft read on what gives us a better chance to get another player. Nothing, no amount of skill, no amount of knowledge can beat, having a lot of draft captain, having a lot of picks. That'll win most of the time.

Yeah, dolphins have a lot of picks. I still contend the dolphins have the most fascinating draft with four third-round picks. And after Malik Willis and their top running back, maybe chop run. Robinson, they got a lot of holes. You could do anything. They could literally do anything they wanted to, and I would approve of it in the first seven picks. I would say the difference, the Cowboys are actually closer to the Chiefs, because we all think

the Dolphins aren't going to be good. We think the Jets aren't going to be good. The Browns, the teams with multiple picks. We think the Chiefs, if Mahomes is healthy, could turn it around relatively quick and be in the playoffs, right? The Cowboys, to me, at 12 and 20, just stick and pick. They draft really well. I mean, Colin, look at Tyler Booker, Tyler,

Smith, Michael Parsons, C.D. Lamb, they've hit going back to Zach Martin. They have hit on a lot of first round picks, let alone the mid-rounds. One thing Jerry, he empowers the group around. It's not like Jerry's banging out the film. But they do pick, well, they could end up with Caleb Downs

and a good corner, a good pass rusher, and a good corner. Their defense, because we know their offense is good, Colin. You know what's really interesting, John, about Caleb Downs? I think he's really good. People like Caleb Downs. I was talking to somebody a couple nights ago about this, because this was a topic on the show. And he goes, people like Caleb Down. He goes, but the chiefs absolutely need

to right tackle. Yeah. And, you know, he goes, people just have needs. He goes, it's not an anti-Kaleb Downs draft. It is a, we can get a safety in the second, third round. There's also an Oregon safety, mid-round, late round. It's like Caleb, Caleb Downs is going to fall 10, 11, 12, 13, potentially. He goes, it's not an anti-Kaleb, but there are two or three teams in this league. The Giants are one of them. They need another weapon. They need a right tackle. The Chiefs Chiefs need a right tackle. The Saints and the Washington commanders' old lines could use improvement. He goes, sometimes, you know, if you may like a player a little more,

but if a guy grades just an inch behind him and you have a massive hole at tackle, tackle is simply more important and you've got to fill that or your young quarterback gets beat up. You just better be careful. That tackle better be a 10-year starter if Caleb Downs goes on to be an Ed Reed type player, right? Right. And I actually have a lot of – I kind of – if this draft goes well for the California,

I think they can be pretty competitive, Colin, because their defensive line is revamped. Yep, agree. New defensive coordinator. We know their offense is good. I know you like lists and I know you like NFL coaches. NBC sports put out their head coaching rankings headed into the season. And the Wonderboy, Sean McVeigh, is currently at 1 and Andy Reed is at 2. And your guy, Ben Johnson is all the way at 13. Colin, if we're doing long-term resumes, which clearly they are on this,

To me, Andy's kind of cemented at one for a couple of years. I mean, he went to six Super Bowl. He won three or four. I mean, this guy, I don't know. I have a hard time moving Andy to two just off one bad season. Well, I do think as you age, I think Sean, his energy is so good that I don't think Andy can duplicate the energy. I'm looking at the list.

I know their resumes aren't as thick, but if you're telling me Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen are the 13th and 14th best coaches, and I watched what they did in year one. This is the greatest group of coaches in league history because Ben Johnson is outstanding. It's like when McVeigh went to the Rams, first year they go from unwatchable to like double-digit wins. You're like, is McVey a top four or five coach?

I think Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen today are top 10 coaches. I think they're unbelievable coaches. If you did, you know, you kind of got to, there's two tiers, right? There's kind of the older group, the guys in their 60s, Andy, the Harbaugh Bros. You would have Sean Payton. You know, if you factored in age, the younger guys that maybe you thought you could get for 20 years, I think it's pretty clear. In some order, McVeigh, Kyle, McDonald, Ben Johnson.

I think Liam Cohen, I mean, the Jags, I think they drafted in the top five for basically a decade straight. That's why it actually was an interesting job. They had some talent on the roster. No, I think Cohen is last year, it's Baby Step League. not going to walk into the playoffs and beat Buffalo, even if the game's in Jacksonville. I love Trevor Lawrence. I was going to sell all my stock. And then last year, I'm like, look what a good coach can do.

I mean, go to Caleb last year and Caleb first year. It was like a different player. That's what a great coach can do. I think one guy on this list is a little underrated because he's not a huge personality. He's a little understated, but I don't know. He played in the league for a while. Is D'Amico? I mean, his defense looks like the mid-2000s Ravens.

If I ask you this, every GM in the league, privately, Dan Campbell or Ben Johnson, who do you think they take? I think every Lions fan would make that trade right now. I like Campbell. Same. Yeah. Okay, to the NBA, we're Jason Tatum and the Celtics. They got a great win over the Hornets. Next up for Boston is a matchup with the Knicks, Colin.

And Tatum is prepping a return to MSG for the first time since that Achilles' tear. Here's what Tatum had to say on the matchup. Yeah, I thought about it. You know, I'm not like thrilled to go back and play there. You know, last time I played there, obviously, it was a traumatic, you know, experience for me. Obviously, I knew at some point I would have to, you know, get over that hurdle and, you know, play there again. I decided to come back and play, so just another game on the schedule. Yeah, well, it is.

How did they go from, once he tore his Achilles, everyone thought they were going to be like the Sacramento Kings this year. And now there's, now it feels like, I mean, are you betting against them to win the East? It feels like Boston has a pretty good shot to be representing the NBA finals. Brad Stevens is smart. So they, you know, Horford and Porzingis were really, I really like those guys. And unlike Milwaukee, they get ahead of stuff. Like they could, they could, and they said, let's go younger in our front line. They just do a really good job on timing.

They let Marcus Smart go at the perfect. time. I mean, Horford, they could have let go, but they kept him. Poor Zingas. A lot of this league is upstairs. I mean, I love OKC. A lot of that, Sam Presti, nothing against the coach. I think Boston is just, when you have that much intelligence, I mean, they go with Missoulet, coach. What was going to lead you to believe he would get this good this fast? He was a little over his skis, like all of us, first year on any job, we're all a little over our skis. But Missoula's become a very, very very good coach, and it's much like the similar culture. I don't know. I just look at the, if the Red Sox were as well run as the Patriots and the Celtics, people would be much happier

in Fenway. I think Boston's smart. Well, because you talked about the Red Sox that, you know, in high school and in college, Theo turned them into an absolute power. It does feel like the Red Sox. Now, you know, the Patriots had a good season. We'll see if they can maintain it. Or really now, from Danny, the transition to Brad Stevens, have to be a top 10 or organization in all of sports right now right yep uh john middlkoff of the news well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news so as many of you know i regularly visit l.a there next week but i live now in chicago and uh when i came when i came to chicago uh i told my wife i said let's let's you know let's do stuff and uh so we got bull season tickets and black hawks and we go to the united center a lot

And so I follow the Bulls. You know, when I'm in a town, I tend to follow the teams more closely because I see him on TV more. So the Bulls blew out their GM and they blew out their basketball operations people and they needed to. There was no plan. It was just what are they doing? And they kept Billy Donovan, the coach, who I like a lot. And so Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner said yesterday came out and he got a lot of pushback on this. He said, we're keeping Billy Donovan.

If the GM doesn't understand how good he is, then we're not hiring him. And that got a lot of pushback. So there is this belief in, you know, the NBA and pro sports, that there has to be in order to everything. And you hire the general manager. He hires the coach. He hires the staff. But I would remind people that when the Lakers dominated this league, you had Pat Riley, Jerry West, and Phil Jackson, often at odds. I don't know any of them truly get along.

And they all had egos. and none remain Lakers for life. And it was, you know, there was, everybody was kind of, it was a, it was a, a lot of grabbing for headlines. And I, you know, I know each of them, no, I don't know Phil. Met Riley, talked to Jerry West multiple times. It worked because they were all great at their job. Phil, Riley, and West, great at their job. Billy Donovan, I know everybody wants to fire everyone.

everybody. Billy Donovan took Florida at the time was a football school and built the closest thing we have now to Yukon, a dominant suffocating defensive dynasty. He then goes to Oklahoma City and 160 plus percent of his games, first year got to the Western Conference finals in Oklahoma City. and his troubles, you know, when KD leaves you, that can create a little hole in your offense. Every time he's had good players and he has a say in choosing them, he wins a lot quickly. And by the way, what Jerry Reinsdorf did in his press conference is the opposite. He pivoted because he favored the GM, Jerry Krause over Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan. and that did not work out.

So what he's saying is, no, I got the coach. And maybe one of my, after this draft and a couple of the young players, I like some players and I like the coach is going to get a say. And I know it's supposed to be an order to everything. I get that. But I'm always back to, like if you took a company over, let's say you bought a small company, and you interviewed, it was a small company, 12 people. And you didn't love the CEO.

So you can the CEO, but you love two of the vice presidents. Do I got to flush them out? What if you're like, yeah, the CEO is the problem? The GM was the problem. The vice president of marketing, the vice president of distribution are great. But in the end, they were vice presidents. They didn't run basketball ops or GM. So I think Billy Donovan was trapped.

I told you a couple days ago, I had a theory on what happened. Carolina offered Billy Donovan the job. and then Billy Donovan told the Bulls is, listen, we're going to make some changes upstairs or I'm out of here. And Jerry Reinsdorf, who loves Donovan, said, okay, and tilted the United Center on its side and flush those guys out. That's my working theory right now is that he didn't want to lose Donovan, and Donovan's like, you know, I don't think Donovan's a power hungry guy, but I think he's a super smart guy. And I just don't think there's the idea that if you just think about this structurally, foundationally for every company in the country. Why do I have to go always in order?

What if I love the number two, three, and four guy the company and didn't like the CEO? I'll just go hire a new CEO and keep the people under him. A lot of the decisions may, every time Billy Donovan either selects the players, has say, or builds something, he wins. In Chicago, I don't think he had the leverage. You know, I think he was a good employee. You know, we'll do this, we'll do that. there were just too many mistakes in Chicago upstairs.

I don't think Donovan's the problem. Here was Michael Reinsdorf, Jerry's son. He's the one that controls the Bulls on Billy Donovan's future. Billy wants to be our coach, and someone's not interested in that, then they're probably not the right candidate for us. If he came to me and said, hey, I may want to do a Brad Stevens situation, I would sit down and listen to Billy. I don't think that's where his head's at.

Right, right. But no, so I don't think, I don't think Billy cares about. titles. Billy cares about being a head coach and he cares about the players and cares about the organization. That's what I've heard for years on Billy Donovan. He's not a power grab guy. That's not it. He wants to be surrounded by smart people.

You give him good players. He'll develop him, make him better players. That's my take. Dusty May, boy, you talk about good coach. National Championship for Michigan. Dane Brugler, top of the hour. Good show coming up. The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd.

weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to our... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with the name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where

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Dusty May now, the coach of Michigan National Champs is joining us. And we've got a couple of interesting topics. So I set on the air the day before the title. I said, whoever loses is going to blame the officials, it's going to because Yukon can only beat you one way. they're going to have to hit jumpers and make it ugly. I want you to take, and right before half, one of your guys gets kind of banged into, and they don't call it a foul. And I'm like, well, they're kind of being consistent because there's a lot of hammering here.

How did you look at the game? I'm sure you knew going into it, it was going to be physical. Your takeaway in the officiating in the game. Yeah, the best teams in college basketball, they know how to foul legally, meaning they know how to get away with it. And even our guys, you know, I'm not playing higher ground here. They just do such a good job at being physical while showing their hands. It's kind of like the old Bel Ryan Wisconsin defenses.

And so that's exhausting. It's tough to shoot and finish and score. So I think both teams were playing with great physicality. And I thought their game plan was an A-plus for knocking us off with our speed, athleticism and ability to score and transition. So kudos to those guys. coach hurley i mean there's a reason he's at the top of our sport he's brilliant hurley said the officiating crew is great do you share that it's it was a great crew yeah and

those guys would communicate with you the their fair they would let you vent when you're frustrated i thought they did a great job um and and even if they came out on top you know that game was won because we made just a few more plays than them yeah so i got into this conversation i said in the old days explosive NBA players. It felt like it was more of an explosive league in the Jordan era. And I said the pacing now is so fast. It's about shooting and scheme and skill. And I want guys that make really quick decisions because the pacing of the NBA is ridiculous. It's 100 miles an hour. I need cognitive guys who can make quick, smart decisions. So when people look at Yaxel Lenniborg, people, I read the scouting report and are like, well, he's,

okay, he's smart and can shoot. But, you know, he's not really. explosive and I'm like, I don't think of SGA Yokic and Luca as explosive. I like smart guys to get up the floor. Do you think he transitions to the NBA? And if so, why? I do, Colin, I think you're ahead of the game with that evaluation. The processing power is his strength. I don't know if I've ever been around someone that can learn things on the fly and be able to change his move or body contortion based on something that he saw a month ago. And so that processing, his passing ability, his ability to see the floor, I think those are all really unique now.

And he's a different athlete where when you watch him, he doesn't seem like a plus athlete. And then you see him make these athletic plays where it go underneath and dunk on three guys. And I just think he's so untapped because he's so new to the game. So Mark Fuse, a friend, that he was funny. He said, can you imagine being in the NFL, the season ends, the Super Bowl, the next day, everybody's a free agent. He goes, that's what college basketball coaches feel like with this ridiculous portal. It is absurd. You've got a couple of guys to replace.

So are you basically on Zoom calls for the next several days? You're right in the middle of it, right? Have you already landed anybody? What are you doing for the next three days? No, we actually just finished a Zoom before I jumped on, Colin. Literally, we finished the game the other night. We get back to hotel at 2 a.m. There's a reception for friends and family and those that are associated with the program.

And so we have a couple pops and some food. And I think I slept an hour and got up and did the whole morning show circuit. We flew back. And as we landed, my wife looked at me and said, are you coming home? And I gave her the side eye and said, no. These next two weeks are, they are our Super Bowl. And if we want to have a chance, a chance to play in Detroit 365 days from now, then we've got to hit these next two weeks and fill some holes.

So you, I said this the other day, and this is not a criticism. I said, you know, you guys are telling me this is an all-time great team. And I said, I saw a team with a Keem and Drexler not win a title. I saw a team with Chris Mullin, Mark Jackson, Bill Wennington, and Walter Barry not when a title. I said what Michigan is, a reminder of how great college basketball is when guys stick around for a second, third, and fourth year. You get grown men playing. I said, so is Michigan all time? I said, I don't know, but they remind me of an 80s and 90s team. You took a freshman, you took a couple of guys who were on the team before you got there that

weren't great, a couple of transfers. The really the player for me, Adymarra is the one I look at and I go, man, I never saw that coming. When did you realize with him? Because, you know, Lenneper was already a good player. But when did you realize with Mara? You know what, guys? This is going to be, he's going to be a really high-end play. I just saw a tall Spaniard.

You know, I didn't see it. Did you know, I mean, was it a week into practice? Was it mid-season? When did you know, wow, with him and the Axel and our size, this is different. Well, it wasn't when we played UCLA last year because Vlad Golden had his way with a die. And he didn't look very good. And then he had a couple games throughout the season.

And you watch these big 10 teams. And he had a couple games throughout the season where he showed glimpses. So after the year was over, we went in and went back and like we did with Vlad and Danny, looked at all of his old footage. And we saw him as there goes in playing in the ACB. And we saw him on the national team. and his passing and footwork were elite. Now, he didn't have the physicality.

I don't know that he, if you put him in the right schemes where there's cutting to the rim, there's floor spacing. He looked even better than if he was playing with non-shooter. So we thought situationally, he had a big, big upside. And the first exhibition early on in the year, he wasn't playing very well. So it just took him some time of us playing him through mistakes, us being frustrated with each other for a couple weeks. and then he just gradually got better throughout the season.

And he's such a beautiful person. That's the thing about our team. These are such great guys to be around. They all wanted to do this for each other, which is rare. Minute and a half left. Big Ten is rolling. I would think it would be very easy to go to your boosters and say, guys, this isn't going to last. This is the Big Ten.

Like, you guys are the Power Conference. Do you think this dominance continues? I think the Big Ten is positioned to do this. type of thing every year. Now, the thing with basketball, it's a one game series, and you could have nine of the ten best teams and not win a national championship as a conference. So it's incredibly difficult to do as we've seen, you know, these teams are smaller conferences that even be able to win it or Baylor from the Big 12. It's been spread out. But yes, I think the Big Ten is going to be in position because of the care for athletics. When you look at how much sports and

athletics mean on Big Ten campuses and the resources available, everyone in the Big Ten, is, you know, the West Coast schools, everyone has the ability to generate revenue for their players, significant revenue for their players. And so there's no reason why the Big Ten doesn't do what we've been able to do in football, in my opinion. Does breakfast taste different when you're a national champion? Is it a little different when you wake up? No, not at all, Colin. Because of the current climate, we can't even enjoy it because we're driven to do this again. And we are processed oriented. I'm not, I don't really want to do the parade and all the other stuff that comes with it. I want to recruit, get a roster for next year that we feel that we would love to work with every

single day and would have a chance to do this and then take some time to enjoy it when our players go home for the summer. The one thing about winning, you get to do a lot of really cool things when time permits. So that's when I'll celebrate the championship, whatever, we get to do some real cool experiences. Dusty, great. I got to be honest, I'm a good luck charm. I keep putting you on and you keep winning. Yeah, yeah, I won my bracket amongst my friends. So congrats to you and the Wolverines. Well, I appreciate that, Colin. Big fan of the show. All right, thank you. Yeah, we're pretty good here on Fox Sports Radio. Our staff, we just found out today. Our staff sort of cleaned up Fox Sports Radio. We're kind of the envy. All our guys crushed in the brackets

because we all took Michigan. That was the secret. Take Michigan. Greg Tooie, way to go, buddy, back in L.A. He crushed as well. Martin, way to go. All right, Dane Bruegler. The Beast next. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager.

And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the Bucing biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the

possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.