The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 1 - Steph Curry is making a case

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Steph Curry is making a case for being the greatest point guard in league history Lamar Jackson has a lot in common with Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson Thoughts on Shaquille O'Neal's comments on LeBron James breaking the career scoring recordSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule. of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black.

people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard.

Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome in. It's the herd, live in Los Angeles, rain-soaked, waterlogged, Los Angeles. Wherever you may be, however, you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mack, joining me as always, I had to take a detour to work, had to get off the freeway, multiple wrecks, no big deal. Those are my issues, not yours.

I drove through neighborhoods, pools, the Poseidon Adventure. It's crazy. What's happening to our city, our beautiful city, a blizzard in the winter, flooding everywhere. I don't know. I'm one day closer to getting a doggie raincoat for my guy, buddy. He hates it when it rains. I don't like walking him in run a rain. First world problems, though, right, Coward?

Yeah. So let's start with this. Steph Curry last night went Steph Curry. 39 points, eight three-pointers, eight rebounds, eight assists. And we know he's one of the all-time greats. but to be the all-time greatest at everything, like Muhammad Ali, you have to be able to transcend eras, right? Like Muhammad Ali's grace and footwork and power and IQ and speed,

devastating right hook, the greatest ever. I always thought the greatest point guard ever would, was Magic Johnson. In fact, if you look at the all-time greatest starting five, I would put magic at the point, Michael at the two, LeBron at the three, Bird at the four, and Kareem at the five. Now, there's been some pushback on Bird, maybe Duncan or Malone, but I always say this. Larry Bird, 10 years ago, it became a shooters league. And it will be for the rest of our lives.

Bird today would crush it. He was almost European in his skill set, his ball handling, his ability to shoot and pass. he is modern basketball. Tim Duncan would be great, so would Malone. They'd win a lot of games. But basketball is changing and it's moving away from Duncan. It's moving into Larry Bird. And I always thought four of those five and maybe now with Bird as the game changes,

they're really irreplaceable. They'll never be another Kareem, LeBron, Michael. But Steph Curry makes me wonder, 10 years ago, the world changed in basketball. From this point forward, actually that point forward, it will always look different. Passing, ball handling, shooting. Magic couldn't shoot like that. Now, both are below average defenders.

Magic was not a great defender. He had a hole in his game, and Steph's not a great defender. The difference is Magic wasn't a great shooter. He was flashy. He was a great finisher. And because of his sheer size, he could do things Steph never could, like play center in the finals against the Sixers. But Magic can't do this.

Magic couldn't drop 22 points in seven minutes. Magic, as great as he was, didn't have a lot of duplicators. High school, AAU, college pro, everybody's trying to rip off Steph Curry. He's had massive influence in the game. And I swear in the last year, on his best nights, he's never been this good. I just wonder, as we look, if you think about the all-time greats, best running back I've ever seen as Walter Payton of the Chicago Bears. Why? Because his speed and power and movement would be as good today as they were then. There are certain players we look at and they were good

for a time. A lot of centers in the NBA in the 60s and 70s and early 80s. But the game's now too skilled and too fast. Teams we romanticize like the Knicks and the Pacer series. Eight the 10 starters couldn't shoot. That's not basketball. It's not aging well. But I look at Steph Curry and that's starting all-time five. And if you put it in the context

of they would be playing together, it would be a real team. If you don't think Larry Bird should be on that, you've got nobody to shoot the three. That's ridiculous. That would be like having a quarterback in your all-time football team that doesn't really throw very well.

You've got to be able to shoot. Kareem's not going to do it. Michael was never a three-point shooter. LeBron is hot and cold. If you don't put bird on that team, who shoots? The all-time greatest team, starting 10 years ago, the world changed in basketball. You've got to have at least two great shooters on it. And so to me, magic was never a great shooter. I think today, if I was to rework it, I'd have to strongly consider Steph Curry as the point guard. if you're asking why Walter Payton's the best running back ever, or why Jim Brown would still, if he was 23 years old, be a dominant player today, or why Ali is the greatest?

Because they work in every single era. Most great centers don't. That's not to say that magic wouldn't be good or Duncan wouldn't be good. But Bird is today's basketball. He's a better version of Dirk Novitsky who would also work in any era. and why he's probably historically a tad underrated and will appreciate Dirk Nevitsky more as the game ages. 50 years from now, we'll be like, remember that guy in Dallas who won a title, the seven-footer who could shoot? So I think Michael, LeBron, and Kareem feel irreplaceable in the all-time starting five.

But Janus, another five years like this, got to consider him somewhere. and Steph Curry over magic? I know. We all love magic. Even Bird love magic. Steph Curry's that good. So the Lamar Jackson story. I know everybody's getting tired of it, but it's like Aaron Rogers.

It's like Baker Mayfield. When a star quarterback is viewed as polarizing or controversial or in conflict, it's interesting. So Lamar Jackson yesterday, Stephen Ruiz came out, and it was very interesting. This is something J-Mack said yesterday, that Lamar Jackson's career. stats against the teams that aren't interested in him. The four or five are phenomenal. He completes 79% of his throws, 96% on target. His numbers against teams that have publicly said they're not interested. He's like the greatest quarterback of all time. But this is something

that I think we forget about, momentum, is that there's only five quarterbacks in the entire league right now. There is only five that if they were on the market, there would be bidding wars, at least 15 teams. Mahomes, Burrow, Lawrence, Herbert, Josh Allen, bidding war, multiple teams. Now, Kansas City wouldn't be in the bidding war because they have one of those teams. But almost everybody, even if you had a Kirk Cousins or a DAC, you'd kick the tires if Mahomes or Burrow were on the market. Then there's another group. where you'd have multiple suitors, but they all have a thing to worry about. Aaron Rogers, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hertz, Stafford.

Stafford's health, Aaron Rogers' age, Lamar Jackson's health, and Jalen Hertz has really only had one great year. People want to see you do it two, three, four years. Those are good to great, but there's something that limits the market. Lamar's in that group. Remember, a year ago, I would have had Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray in that second group. But of course, things change. And two years ago, I would have had Deshawn Watson in that second group. But, you know, things change. Fluidity. The world changes. Lamar Jackson's last 22 games,

he's missed 10, and he's getting incredibly noisy on social media. And on the heels of Kyler Murray and Aaron Rogers drama, teams are a little reticent to go all in. Remember, the more you run or the more you get hit, things change faster. I said this yesterday to somebody at Fox in the hallway going to lunch. If Lamar never been injured, I think you'd have a bidding war. Or at least a significantly larger group of teams interested. But Arthur Blank was quoted yesterday saying, or the Falcons, looking at it objectively.

There's some concern over how long he can play his style of game. Of course, there is now, based on things changing over the last 22 Raven games. Folks, all you Bitcoin bros thought you ruled the world. And then like six days later, we were all making fun of you. Some of you thought you were going to be millionaires selling fuzzy images of something NFTs. Now we're all making fun of you.

Things change. I had Deshawn Watson as multiple bidders a couple years ago. And Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray. And we'd all acknowledge the Packers now. Forget everybody else. The Packers are tired of Aaron Rogers' drama and he wins the

division every year. I don't think anybody's anti-Lamar, but I do think that list of teams that would never forget this. Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback of all time, when he left for Tampa three years ago, two teams, Chargers, bucks, were truly interested. Two of 32.

Well, he's old. Greatest of all time, never hurt, probably the best pre-snap quarterback in the day. history of the game, impeccable leadership skills, never in trouble, gets along with everybody, two teams. Aaron Rogers, the MVP of the league, two of the last three years, even the Packers aren't interested.

Folks, 5%, maybe 2% of any industry, any industry, radio, law, tax. football, 2% is going to create massive bidding wars. Everybody else falls into that second group, third group, and those groups change regularly. Okay. Nick Wright, one hour from now, Shaq was apparently a little bummed out. I like this. He's admitting it. When LeBron became the all-time leading score, kind of bummed Shaq out.

Saw that story yesterday. Talk about that coming up. and Green Bay is now talking about Jordan Love. I don't know if I love what they're saying. That's around the corner. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics

from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back.

Nick Wright, top of next hour. So Shaq has parlayed his basketball gifts. into a remarkable endorsement career very early on. But when you're distracted very early on, you have to, you know, there are consequences, maybe the wrong word. You have some, you know, debits, some things that won't be as good as they could have been. Shaq had an amazing career, as everybody knows, four NBA championships, multiple-time MVP, what he scored, 28,596 points, three straight final MVP's.

Nobody disputes any of that. But he did acknowledge when LeBron became the all-time scoring king, he was a little jealous. I said this all the time. It was a professional jealousy at that moment. I wish that was me. I know what the fuck I would have did. Me. I'm the greatest.

The truth is LeBron isn't more talented than Shaq. He's just more focused. Focus matters. Shack got heavy, played his way into shape some years. By year two, in his prime, he was doing a movie Blue Chips. A couple years later, he's doing Kazam. He's in his prime. LeBron, Brady, Kobe, and their prime were all ball.

Now, later, LeBron, the Laker move, a lot about commerce. Brady, Tampa, a lot about commerce. Kobe in retirement, same thing. Kareem is the greatest center of all time. That's indisputable. Russell has the most titles, best defensive center arguable. I think Shaq has always been wilt. He's the most talented.

The two of them are the most talented. Wilt didn't win as much as he could. He was distracted, a little flaky. And let's be honest about Shaq. He was always a little distracted. Now, I do think there's about seven or eight players, maybe more, off the top of my head, that fall into a category of uniquely, physically gifted. I think Wilts in that, LeBron's in that, M.J. is in that.

Magic for his size is in that. Shack is in that. I think Janice is probably in that. Look different, play different. Michael Jordan's ability to play on the ground is the greatest player. Play in the air is hand size. Michael just did things. Other great players couldn't do.

But to me, Shaq has always been wilt. Probably the greatest physical talent in the history of the sport at his position. But I think he would also admit movies, DJing, video. They were part of the package. Basketball was a part. It was a part of Shaq's life. In his prime. That was not the case for Kobe,

Brady, or LeBron. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. I almost forgot just how dominant Shaq was. I went and looked at his stats. So he enters the league.

Remember out of LSU? His first year as a rookie, 23 13.9 rebounds, 3.5 blocks as a rookie. So I covered him in Orlando. I was in Tampa and I was the only guy in the sports department that loved the NBA. So whenever the magic had Penny Hardaway, Dennis, Scott Shack. And so I think Horace Grant, I could be wrong. So I'd be like, oh, I'll go cover him tonight in Orlando and I'd go do features.

That was the Skinny Shack. So the Laker fans and a lot of people remember, now Big Shack. But when he came into the league, He was much thinner and ran the court. I remember being the late Jerry Tarkanian. We were at something called the Shark Club. It was a bar nightclub that Tark let them put his name on it, Tark the Shark, and he got a percentage of it.

So I am there one night, and I am with a sports writer, me and Tark. And Tark said, I remember that night, said, Shaquille O'Neal, there's this kid at LSU, is going to be the greatest basketball player of all time. He's like, it's insane. What he can do and run the floor, Tark's like there's never been anything that looks like that. And if you go back to the early Shaq days.

Unstoppable. Oh, it was the force. I mean, he would dunk it, and there were times he pulled the whole basket down. There's video of that. The last team to knock Michael Jordan out of the playoffs, Shack's magic when Michael came back like halfway through the season

and Orlando ousted them because Jordan never made the playoffs with the Wizards. But that Shack team, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, Penny Hardaway, they were awesome. It's a short list of the greatest teams Utah Jazz that never won a championship. New York Knicks, Patrick Ewing, John Starks. Stop, come on. Those guys couldn't

Oh my gosh, game seven. I don't even want to rehash it. Let's move on to the NFL. Dak Prescott has played every game during his first four seasons with the Cowboys. But over the last three, you know, you bang on Lamar, Colin. Dak Prescott has missed 17 games over the last three seasons. At the owner's meetings, Mike McCarthy discussing what he is hoping to see from DAC in 2023. My goal is for Dak to play 20 games next year.

He's thinking big time. You know, Colin, should we talk about Dallas and potentially getting to like an NFC championship or Super Bowl? in the NFC? I don't understand Cowboy fans. I've given up. They are over the moon on Brandon Cook's a nice 900-yard receiver. They lose

one of the top two or three play callers in Kellynne Moore in the league. Nobody would dispute how valuable great coordinators are. I mean, Kyle Shanahan, the coordinator, Matt Ryan, becomes MVP and goes to a Super Bowl. Nobody, you know, Buddy Ryan for years

as a great, you know, defensive mind in Baltimore. Nobody would dispute that. They lose one of the top play callers and a highly productive tight end as tight ends are emerging in the league and you think to yourself, we'll go get a tied end. But by the time the Cowboys draft in the first round, it's very possible the top two tight ends are gone. We know the chargers want a tied in. The Jets may want to tie in. The lions may want to tie in. Washington commanders. Yeah. So it's like the idea that Dalton Schultz leaves, look at, he was a security blanket, especially for a team that doesn't have a second great wide receiver.

Brandon Cooks is not a great wide receiver. C.D. Lamb on certain nights is. Don't forget about Stefan Gilmore in that secondary, Colin. I mean, God of goodness, that's a huge pickup. Cowboys fans really think their defense is one of the best in the league. I mean, they are over the moon. They have some of the best. Trayvon Diggs and Micah Parsons are two of the better players at their position in the league.

That is true. Okay, yeah. The Niners have like six players at that level. Just want to remind people, they beat up on a lot of bad teams last year, you know, stomping the best. bears by like 50, like, just settle down. Next up, Matt Stafford. This is interesting.

Matt Stafford ended last season on the IR. Spinal cord contusion. He had the elbow issue. Stafford was one of many injuries the Rams had during their extremely disappointing year. McVeigh was asked about Stafford at the owner's meetings and said, Stafford will be ready to roll with no limitations. Colin, I'm trying to find the last time Matt Stafford has spoke publicly about the Rams and football and injuries. I can't find anything. You've been on this for a while. You hear stuff out there,

and it's like, they're saying all the right things. We'll see what happens. You optimistic about the Rams this year? Well, they don't have a first round pick. I believe they have a second, a couple of thirds. I'm not sure if they have a fourth. They have a fifth, bunch of fifth, bunch of six, bunch of sevens. They've got, I think, 11 draft picks. And as Seattle proved, if you hit on them, you know, if you go hit on a running back like Seattle did in the second, and then you hit on a couple of tackles, it's amazing how things change. Their biggest issue is Stafford's not mobile and comes with, you know, a warning label. He's been banged up.

So job one is to solve the offensive line. So you would think the early picks will be part of that. You know, and they're up against the cap. My takeaway is if you have an elite coach, McVey is. and you have an elite quarterback, Stafford is. I think we're overstating how bad the Rams are. I don't know. I mean, by the way, they lost Jalen Ramsey.

It should be noted that the Jets and the Broncos had great corners last year. Go look at the great corners. Latimore. I mean, Patrick Sertan, Soss Gardner. I don't know if it's just about losing wins. Tell me a team in the NFL right now with a great offensive coach and a really great quarterback who stink. Because Stafford didn't play most of last year.

It's just hard the way the rules are. It would be like saying in the NBA, we've got two great wing shooters. You're going to win some games. So the idea the Rams are going to plow when you get into trouble is where the Jets are, where you've got a defensive coach that's kind of unproven and you're not set at quarterback. That's when you get bad. Remember, the NFL on average has four lousy teams a year. I have a hard time believing McVeigh and Stafford if they're upright.

are going to be lousy. All right. You know, I'm not going to break down the offensive line, but it's not very good. Here are their skill position players. They're starting running back on the Deptart right now is Cam Acres who they do not like. That's right. The backup is Kyron Williams who barely played. They're wide receivers.

Cooper Cup, Alan Robinson, who they're trying to dump actively. Van Jefferson, who can't stay healthy is never really a factor. Yeah. And their fourth wide receiver, Ben Skoronik, 2-2-Atwell, Colin. If I said to you, the 11th, starters on defense for the Rams. You probably would not have heard of like six of the guys. But they have a second and two-thirds.

What if they go out in the second round? It is again, second-third first round. A lot of receivers. And they go find a T. Higgins in round two. Then suddenly you're like, Cooper Cup, T. Higgins, Matt Stamford, John McVeigh. Again, in this league, if you can

hit on draft picks. We thought Seattle was a disaster. They hit on their first five picks. By the way, the Jets, a bit of a disaster. Joe Douglas hits on the first four picks last year. But Joe Douglas is not the same guy as the Rams GM. You said second round pick. Twenty-two. Their second round pick was two, two, Atwell. Bust. 2020, their second round picks were Cam Acres and Van Jefferson.

2019, their second round pick was Taylor Rap. Like, I'm not bagging on the GM, but those guys all play. Barely. They're not really factors. You just mentioned the Jets. Other guys are starting on a good defense. Listen, I have my concerns about the Rams. But, We need to get to the third story, which is huge. I dropped my latest mock draft for Fox Sports. Yes, and we got the top 10 guys here. A lot of people are going to be angry. I don't want to hear it.

Don't come at me on social. Now, are you predicting? Yes. Now, I'm predicting what I think is going to happen, and everybody's going to hate it. I think I'm the only man in America that has Anthony Richardson going first. I still maintain, I don't think they trade it up for Tiny Bryce Young. I could be wrong.

It's fine. I have no issues being wrong. I do think Bryce Young to Houston would be very good. Houston, you've talked me into some good things there. Now, here's where it gets interesting. Number six, Detroit Lions. I've been saying this for a little while. A quarterback's going to be in play.

Do you like the idea of Will Levis sitting behind Jared Goff? No. Being a cheap first-round pick, the contract, and you move off Goff after this year. My takeaway on this mock draft, if the Colts can get C.J. Stroud at 4, they should bathe in crystal. That would be a... Let's just remember. And again, I like C.J.

Trout. Before the playoff game against Georgia, there was a lot of questions whether he was even a top 10 pick. So a lot of the CJ Stroud hype is based on one playoff game with a month to prepare for Georgia. We would agree with that, right? CJ Stroud's regular season was good, but they're

beaten up on bad big 10 teams. Jalen Carter, I have slipping to 10. Filly drafted two Georgia guys last year. I think Chicago Bears would be absolutely overjoyed if they got all those picks, DJ Moore, moved to and get Paris Johnson, who's going to be a monster NFL tackle.

Seven win team? Well, I mean, I'm telling you, if I'm Chicago, I get DJ more in all those picks, and one of my two to three really big needs is an offensive tackle, and I get the best one on the board. Yeah. If your mock draft is going to make the Indianapolis Colts and the Chicago Bears, that you would be getting, whether those guys are great or not, it does appear you'd be getting value.

Paris Johnson, some of his video is, I mean, what do I know? I know people that, you know, they're not sure about Paris Johnson. But that to me right there. So the Gonzalez kid going to the Raiders. I was looking to the Raiders. He fit. They need a corner. Like, when you look at quarterback rating aloud and some of these numbers, the Raiders were really, really bad.

And they have to go defensive back. And Gonzalez is talented. He would start from day one. Yeah, there's a lot of good football players there. Yeah. The draft is getting, what are we a month out? Yeah. here's the team that's really guaranteed.

The team that's the luckiest is Seattle, because they're not going to take a quarterback, I would guess. They could. But if the first two teams are taking a quarterback, and the Colts are taking one at four, so Pete Carroll's a defensive guy. They could use another interior defensive lineman. Jalen Carter could fall to them,

who's probably the best pure talent in the draft, or Will Anderson potentially, or the second best. So Pete Carroll's sitting there thinking, I got one or two needs defensively. because they don't need a quarterback, Seattle is going to get arguably Will Anderson or Jalen Carter. And a lot of people think those are the two best players in the draft. Seattle is going to get their pick, potentially, at five of the two best players in the draft. Jalen Carter's interesting because he could go, like you said, around four or five, well, not four, but five.

And then there's a chance he falls out of the top ten if teams start doing their homework. And they're like, I don't know. Remember, you were the one who said, what was it, McShay, had some reports. on behind the scenes and now you've got some stuff coming out. I think Jalen Carter is such a unique body type. You get a player like Jalen Carter like every other year. Like I think he's going to go to Arizona. I think Arizona is going to say, we're a mess.

We don't care. Nobody likes us anyway. I mean, literally the media is crushing us anyway. They'll just crush us more. We're going to take Jalen Carter. He's not going to be available. So I could see Arizona. And by the way, then Seattle probably gets Will Anderson,

who a month ago is targeted as the number one player in the draft. Well, Arizona is the biggest trade-down candidate because they have, like, they might have the weakest roster in the NFC. It's very devoid of talent. I think they want to trade down. I'm not sure if there's any takers. Well, does somebody want to move up? If C.J. Stroud is there after the first two picks,

if Stroud is available, do you want to go up to three and get Stroud? Because he's not going to get past India for it. It is interesting. The Jets had a great draft. And literally, we look at their roster today and go, wow, two years ago, we thought it was a complete rebuild. Seattle had a great draft last year, five starters, five or six. And we look at Seattle now, we're like, oh, my God.

Like now they've got two first, two seconds, two fourths. You know, as much as we talk about free agency and stars, if you just have one great draft where you get four starters, a sauce gardener, a star, it is amazing. Seattle solved their running back issue, their tackle issue, and their corner issue, one draft. And they're not paying those guys mostly anything for, four years.

The draft still matters. Where to go? That's J-Mack's mock draft. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. So I'm driving to work today, and I had to take early exits. And, you know, I drive to work very early.

It's dark. And you can't see anything. So I take Wilshire. I go down. I don't take it much. I'm figuring out how to get across. I go into a back neighborhood. It's not well lit.

I'm lost. I'm on GPS. It's amazing. Rain in Los Angeles, everything implodes. It's crazy, right? Just nuts. Why I'll always defend people and teams

taking big swings. That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hi, this is Jay Glazer, and you may know me for the world of football or fighting or even shows like HBO's ballers. What you don't know is for my entire life, I have lived in something I refer to as the gray.

Depression, anxiety. So now I'm coming out with a new podcast. Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer, where each week, while we talk about mental health, I hope to describe it. Give it words. Listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you'll say. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast.

Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your problem.

podcast. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday on Fox, baseball is back as the Giants battle-raining MVP, Aaron Judge, and the Yankees, or the Phillies take on Corey Seeger and the Rangers. It all begins Saturday at 3.30 Eastern on Fox and the Fox Sports app. Nick Wright, top of the hour. So it's good to have the end. So it's the NFL, like, owner meetings and the coaches are there and stuff's all over the internet. pictures of GMs and coaches and quarterback, not quarterbacks, coaches, GMs. Yeah, a lot of executive stuff.

Boring mostly. OBJ was there yesterday. So Matt LaFleur obviously is going to have a large crowd around him, considering what's going on with Aaron Rogers. So he talked about Jordan Love. I want to play you three separate bites. This is Matt LaFleur, Green Bay Packer coach on Jordan Love. Just listen to the words replacing.

Aaron Rogers. Certainly, I think we're fooling ourselves if we think he's going to go out there and perform at a level of, to the likes of what Aaron Rogers, I mean, this guy is a once in a lifetime, a generational talent. Like, so, and I don't think it necessarily started that way when he first started, you know, but he progressed into that. So, you know, it's, it's, like I said, it's going to be a progression. All right, he's been there three. years, I'd like a better word than progression. Let's be fair, though. Let's go to a second by Matt Lafleur

on how they won't have the highest expectations for Jordan Love. It's going to be a different role for him, certainly, and I think we all have to kind of temper our expectations with, you know, for him. It's just, it's different when you're going into a game versus when you're starting a game. wasn't great. Temper expectations. Nobody really has great expectations. Here's the third by LaFleuron. How it's going to take some time for Jordan Love?

It's going to be a process, but it's going to be, you know, it's going to be exciting for him, for us. And, you know, I don't think any quarterback can truly do it on their own in this league. So it's going to be everybody rallying around him. and trying to play at their best of their ability so that he can go out there and perform as good as he possibly can. As good as he possibly can. Doesn't exactly sound like they have Herbert, Trevor Lawrence, or Mahomes on their hands.

Two things I think the Packers are telling you with all these bites and all this sound and all the leaks and all the reports. He's not Mahomes. He's not Burrough. If he was, they wouldn't have signed Aaron to an extension. Right? Alex Smith was a pro bowler. They moved off him.

As a pro bowl quarterback who was getting the team into the playoffs moved off him from a Holmes. He's not going to be that. He's not going to be upper cross top five or six. We also know they would keep Aaron and deal with his drama if he was awful. If it was like Zach Wilson, you know, or frankly early Darnold, too many interceptions. It's not going to be that.

So he's probably somewhere, I would guess, between the 13th best quarterback and the 23rd. That's Daniel Jones, Mack Jones, Ryan Tannehill. And that tells me the Packers are in the 9 and 8, 8, and 9 category. Now, before you freak out, that's where they finished last year. If I had to predict the NFC North, I did get three divisions perfect this year. It should be noted. If I had to predict the NFC North, and I think the NFC is harder to predict,

than the AFC, because in the AFC, you have much better quarterbacks, dominating, ascending star quarterbacks. I would pick it to be a very even-looking division. Nobody's great. There's no proven great head coach. Lefleur's won a lot of regular season games. I'd probably have the Lions if they have another solid draft, and they've been very good the last several years drafting.

I like how hard they play. I like their offensive pieces. They solved their cornerback issue in free agency, their primary issue. I'd have them with good coordinator play 10 and 7. Minnesota will still be good. They can't possibly win every single close game and go 11 and 0 in those type of games. They pull back to 9 and 8. Green Bay in the same area, Jordan Love, not quite as efficient, perhaps, as a Kirk Cousins.

Maybe they get swept by the Vikings. That's the difference. they're 8 and 9. Bears, I think, have solved a lot of issues if they can hit a couple of home runs on the defensive side with Matt Eberf loses head coach. Justin Fields gets better. He should more time and other offseason, better weapons. They'll be much more dynamic offensively. That's indisputable. And if they could get Paris Johnson like McIntyre's mock draft, they will have solved their tackle issue. I think they're kind of in an 8 and 9 space. Green Bay's issue is Detroit and Chicago.

Detroit is good and Chicago should be considerably better. So that's where I land today. Remember, Aaron was 6 and 10 in his first year. So Lefleur's first bite is accurate. There's a difference coming into games and being the guy. Green Bay's roster is good. It's a very good roster. They need pressure on the quarterback.

They were 27th in sacks. They've got to get better on the edge defensively, and they need to be more productive at wide receiver and tied in. So I think this morning, that's kind of where I land on the Packers. J. Mack, your thoughts, the division. Detroit barely over Minnesota Green Bay. Chicago still makes too many mistakes to be a playoff team, but they look different, much more viable, couple upset wins, and they can take a punch. So just to recap, LaFleur won, I believe with Rogers, 13 games.

12, 13 for like three years. Yeah. And then last year they cratered a little bit. Yeah. And you think they're not going to crater any further with Jordan Love in that quarterback? Well, if they get a second, they tend to draft and develop well. So the O line, which they attacked a couple of years ago, Bactiari read that his deal. So I was very worried about the O line before last year.

It's better. They've solved some of those issues. They have to, what they need is readily available in the draft early. tight end receiver, edge rusher. And if they get a second round pick from the Jets, they have a history of hitting on their early picks. They tend to do a good job of draft and development. They can solve.

It's not a great division, those picks. Again, I think Jordan Love is going to be somewhere in the Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, Ryan Tannahill space. Ryan Tannahill was a number one seed two years ago. So I don't think Mack Jones made the playoffs. Daniel Jones made the playoffs. So I think they will be, my guess is, if they were watching him and they thought he can't play. Okay, they would have just, they'd live with Aaron Rogers' drama.

Wouldn't move off Aaron to can't play. Or they realize we've got to play him or we're going to lose him. We have to go. Well, again. Even if he's okay, well, we got to play. But if you didn't think he could play, I mean, by the way, San Francisco, John Lynch says, hey, we're going to play Brock Purdy. They may just have to move on.

Like, if you think a guy can't play, don't play them. I guess my only disagreement would be, I don't think the Bears finish in the basement in the division next season. I think it'll be Minnesota or Green Bay. And I'm with you. I like the Lions. Minnesota, offensive coach and a top 12 quarterback. Hard to finish last in the NFL with that. Go look at the last place teams last year.

Defensive coach, defensive coach, bad at quarterback. Okay. So the GM and the coach did not pick, Kurt. cousins. They inherited him. Well, but he's still good. And next year, after next season, there's an out in his contract. There's a lot of speculation that they maybe like what

they saw in Kirk, but they're ready to, let's build on, let's get on a rookie quarterback. We would not dispute he's more than capable. Yes, certainly. So look at the last place teams in 2022. Not very many bright offensive coaches top 12 quarterbacks.

There's not a lot of that in there. It's defensive coaches or off a quarterback. I will also remind you, the last two years, the team that spent the most money in free agency. Usually it's like, oh, you win the offseason, it doesn't mean anything. The last two years, they have jumped up and made the playoffs. The Patriots, I know they got smoked by the bills, and the Jaguars last year. As of right now, I believe the bears have spent the most money in free agency.

It's not a guarantee, but I would not be shocked if it's mid-December and the bears are like in wild card contention and a really bad NFC. Well, they spent some of that money on a couple of linebackers. Iber Fluse, a defensive guy. I know you have an issue with defensive people, but he has been a pretty damn good defensive coordinator back in Indy. If he can translate some of it onto the field with the Bears, if I was Chicago, I would take a tackle with my first pick.

There's an argument to go defense for a lot of the rest of the way. Harris Johnson or the kids from Northwestern. I would go get the tackle. But I think they're good enough at running back. They added Robert Tonin. They're absolutely good enough at tight end. they have three now capable pros, Mooney, Claypool, and DJ Moore. Now, they'll probably draft another receiver, but they're fine there.

There's an argument, get the best tackle at nine, and then just flush it out and get, remember, sometimes offensive players, even gifted ones, it takes a year. Offense is choreography. Defense, dude can play, can play. A young defensive player is about blowing stuff up and wrecking stuff, right? It's not choreography as much. So there is a sense that if you draft, really, you know, really good defensive play. I mean, Darius Leonard came in for the Colts. An hour later, he was

productive. It is harder sometimes because a receiver and a quarterback is a timing relationship. Offensive line, it's, you know, that's a cohesion unit. Young defensive guys can make an impact first time they're on the field. And the guy we haven't talked about is Justin Fields, Colin, because he basically, his first two years had different offensive systems, right? They got out of the old one, then they got the new guy. This will be the first time with some continuity. I just keep flashing back to that Bears Patriots. Remember that Monday night football game? I took a bath on that one. I had them in Survivor Patriots totally got killed. And I saw Justin Fields destroy, destroy the New England Patriots. I think there's a lot of upside

in fields. I personally like him a lot. I know you're not as bullish. I'm 60, 40. It's going to work. But to this point, he's been a great highlight player. His highlights are great. But that's not really I think they're in the mix for a wild card spot and they're not a last place. Yeah. By the way, I have them an 8 and 9. Yeah. So that means in December, you will be in the NFC in the hunt for a wildcard spot. Yeah, I think Chicago to the very end is going to be viable.

Better record. Bears or Rams next year. I got a better quarterback, offensive coach Rams. Bears. I heard. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford. and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.