The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 1 - The Cowboys keep shooting themselves in the foot, the relationship between Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson, Scott Pioli

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

Jason McIntyre fills in for Colin calling into question Jerry Jones and the Cowboys organization for how they’ve handled Micah Parsons’ contract situation and why it’s holding the team back We are hearing a lot of good things about Giants QB Jaxson Dart, which is the complete opposite of what we're hearing about Caleb WilliamsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. We are back. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. A beautiful Thursday here on the herd out in sunny Los Angeles. It's me. Jason McIntyre barely surviving. I mean, geez, they're coming for me online, Rachel, with picks and feathers. Whatever they say, they're coming after me, but I'm still surviving. And Rachel, we got a pretty damn show. I was going to say, there's a lot going on.

There is a lot. We are one week exactly, one week from today. NFL season. We get Packers. Not Packers, I'm sorry. We get Eagles. Yeah. And Cowboys.

Oh, it's interesting. Is there anything going on with the Cowboys? You know, let's just dive right into that, shall we? I can't remember. We are one week away from the start of the NFL season, and a week from today, it's Eagles Cowboys. And the Eagles are defending champs. They got the best roster in the league.

They're stacked, and nobody is talking about them. For some reason, it's all about that. the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry Jones likes it that way. He loves it that way. By the way, do you guys remember what happened last year in the Eagles Cowboys games? They met twice. Now, Dack missed both games, but let me just check here. Okay, 346 was the first one. That was Eagles winning. And then it was 41-7. Jalen Hurts had a concussion did not play. So it's a little early for math, but I'm 75 to 13. The Eagles smoked the Cowboys last year. It was not competitive in any way, shape, or form. Yet the remains obsessed with the wretched,

woebegone Dallas Cowboys. Why would that be? Well, wouldn't you know it? But yesterday, Micah Parsons, their star hold out, hold in, I don't know, showed up at an airport. Where's he going? Doesn't he have to go to practice?

Well, Micah Parsons is going to get a second opinion on his back. There's Micah at the, I believe it's a Dallas-Fort Worth airport. You know, tough to miss Michael Parsons, a large individual. Somebody snapped this photo. And next thing you know, it's, wait a minute. So he's not going to be at practice this weekend? Pivotal practices right before the season?

Well, that ain't good. Because we got everybody saying, ah, it's going to be fine. He's going to show up. But it didn't stop there. Folks, Michael filed a grievance against the Cowboys over his fifth-year option. And it continued. The news in Dallas.

Jerry Jones loves this, right? Jerry, we'll get to you a sec, buddy. There's more. Micah Parsons' older brother went on social media yesterday. And I want to make sure I quote him correctly, it's going to get ugly. Put your gloves on. This is going 12 rounds.

Now, I don't know if he's talking about like a Jake Paul fight coming up or what's happening. Maybe it's his brother who's going toe to toe with Jerry Jones. And folks, the more I look at this, the more I just get disappointed and sad for Cowboys fans. because without question, this is the most futile organization in the NFC. A staggering stat I'm sure you guys have seen. Since 2010, every team in the NFC has made the conference championship game.

Yes, the pathetic Panthers, the Sad Saks Saints, they've made a conference championship game since 2010. There's only one team in the entire conference that hasn't. And if you look at the bottom of the screen there, it's the Dallas Cowboys, 1995, was the last, time they made the conference championship game. 15 years behind everyone else in the conference. That to me is a very clear signal. Jerry Jones is not serious about actual football. The Eagles, who they're playing next Thursday,

they're crushing free agency every year. They're crushing the draft. Howie Roseman is building a juggernaut. And Jerry Jones is out here creating reality TV shows. You've heard of Love Island? Cowboys, they got Star Island, keeping up with the Kardashians? What about keeping up with the Joneses?

Yet somehow the media seems to think, wow, this happens every year. Here's Matt Mosley earlier this week talking about how, hey, Micah's going to be there, week one. Remember who Jerry is. And remember how much he loves the pageantry and the circus of all of this. And the last minute, get the deal signed,

is kind of a fun thing for him. Dak got one of his deals done the morning of the first game. CD and Zeke's were done four or five days. Every one of these holdouts end in the Cowboys capitulating, right? I mean, name me one that they've won, like, well, look at the Cowboys. They won this negotiation. Zeke, Zach, I mean, every CD, they all end in the deals getting done. So the worst part is Jerry thinks this is good business

because he's not serious about football. He's like, oh, our names are in the headlines. I mean, they play at a stadium called Jerry World. I mean, the guy's obsessed with himself. That's not going to translate to building a contender in the modern era. It's not going to happen. And on top of all this, there was a couple reports saying, well, wait a minute, the Green Bay Packers are interested in Micah Parsons.

and everybody gets all excited about that. I'm like, whoa, whoa, let's be, let's pause for a sec. That ain't happening. I mean, Jerry, there's no way he's trading, Michael. We all know and think, yeah, he's going to cave at the last minute because that's what he does. He chickens out, he talks a tough game and then chickens out and signs a deal. So here's Tyler Dunn talking about Jerry's history with his stars recently. This is headed toward opening night.

Jerry Jones is going to know all eyes are on. The NFL is NFL. He's the most powerful person in the NFL. And then that's when the news brings. They don't care about winning. They just don't. If the Dallas Cowboys prioritized winning, they wouldn't lock up DAC a year ahead of time,

C.D. Lamb a year out of time. Michael Parsons a year at a time. They just jerk around their best players because they can. They think they're the smartest people in the room. They don't modernize the franchise. And if you're a cowboy fan out there, I don't know. I guess the only,

what thing you can do is not show up to the stadium. And that's why I say, you know, Jerry's kind of unsurious about the actual football product. I don't think he cares. He says, well, I want to win a Super Bowl. I want to, but the actions are not backing that up, and it's got to be disapprolet pointing if you're a Cowboys fan. So let me address one of the points that Dunn made yesterday, because a lot of people out there are thinking, hey, you know, actually, Jay, Jerry Jones has a point. Micah's under contract for three more years. He's got to show up and play.

And that's just, that's not how it works. I'm going to turn back to 2021. Okay, that's what Michael Parsons was drafted. I remember that draft fondly because as a Jets fan, all season leading up to that, we were in position to get Trevor Lawrence. I was so geeked, all excited. And then the Jets like morons end up beating the Rams. I believe it was out here at SoFi in December,

cost themselves Trevor Lawrence and have to settle for Zavis. We know Zach Wilson. I mean, I think he's working at a coffee bean out here in Los Angeles. However, that draft had a lot of other good players who went the first round. And we just so happen to have a full screen of all that, those 21 draft picks. Take a look at the final column. Did they sign their extension? These are all guys drafted the exact same day as Micah Parsons.

Trevor Lawrence and Jacksonville got his extension. It's done. No drama. Jamar Chase, arguably the best receiver in the league, got it done. No drama, no holdouts, no headlines. Jalen Waddle, Miami, got his deal. Penae Sewell, the great offensive lineman in Detroit. J.C. Horn, who's been injured a ton?

And Carolina still got his extension done. Patrick Certean defensive player of the year. Devante Smith of the Eagles. Boy, Eagles Cowboys. Hey, Devante Smith, in Micah's draft class, got his extension. Guys, I had to look this up. 17 months ago. He got his extension.

He was drafted the same day as Michael Parsons. And we all say the Eagles are the worst run organization in the NFL right now. He got his deal done. And you look at the very end of that list. And there's a gentleman named Ray Sean Slater who went to the Chargers. Okay? July 27th this summer, Ray Sean Slater, four-year, $114 million deal. Chargers locked him up.

Great contract for an offer. offensive lineman. Less than two weeks later, he tears his Patel attendant out for the season. But guess what? Because he got extended, he doesn't have to worry about anything. Can you imagine the panic Ray Sean Slater would have right now if he were playing for the Cowboys and Jerry was jerking him around and then he tears his Patel attendant in practice and he's out for the year? But, bro, you didn't get your extension. You just cost yourself a ton of money. He got taken care of. No worries, Slater. Hey, man, get healthy. You don't have a damn thing to worry about.

We don't need you to rush back because you got paid. We want you to come back fully strong next season. Easy. Well, and are Michael Parsons? He doesn't have his extension. You really think? Michael Parsons wants to go out there and play and jeopardize an injury like Slater with no security. And don't tell me, well, he's got the fifth-year option where they can franchise tag him.

That ain't security. Security is a four-year deal with $91 million guarantee. which is what Slater got. And Jerry, for some reason, is reluctant to give him that money. And at the bottom of that full-screen graphic, I don't know if we can get it again. Our guys put it in gold lettering, okay? Of all those guys that got their extensions,

Micah Parsons is the only player in this draft to have three all-pro seasons. So you could argue, you know, Jamar Chase has been great, Sewell's been awesome. Micah Parsons has been the best player from his draft. That's a legitimate credible argument. And I know, hey, Jay, what's he done in the playoffs? Okay, guys, what's Trevor Lawrence done in the playoffs?

You know? Penang Sewell. How did he do against Washington? Patrick Sertan. Like, you could play that game all day. But the reality is Jerry Jones is just unsurious about football. He doesn't truly care about winning because if he did, his actions would align with the smarter teams in the league, like the Philadelphia Eagles, who they're going to be playing next Thursday.

Now, the spread for that is seven. I would not be surprised if that ticked up to seven and a half as we get closer. It's increasingly looking like Micah Parsons is not going to play. His brother's on social media. He's at an airport. Micah's getting a second opinion on his back. This is headed toward disaster. If Jerry doesn't step in, say, hey, hey, hey, okay.

Just kidding. We had a lot of fun with that. Now, let's get down to football. got down to brass tacks. Because I'm just, it's, you got to be disappointed if you're a Dallas Cowboys fan with how Jerry has handled this. So we have a good show today. Let's upgrade to great actually. I know Bears fans are unhappy with me. Somehow Rachel was able to escape any enmity from the Bears, former bears coming after me online, even though we're in alignment on what's happening with the Chicago team and Ben Johnson and his quarterback. Well, I think it's more of a

stylistic issue, right? Whereas you maybe think of it's more of, is he good enough issue? In my mind, Ben Johnson is a very precise coach, right? I mean, everything he did with the lions, the mad scientists. To be a mad scientist, you have to have pretty concise ingredients on exactly what you want to do, when you want to do it, how you want to do it. And Caleb Williams has always been more of a freelancer. And by the way, that's not a bad quality. Some of the best quarterbacks we have going right now can freelance out there. But it's not necessarily what. but Ben is used to when you're coming from Jared Gough because he's not like that. So for me, the question throughout this camp and now going into the season is how do those two styles merge and can they live together?

So we'll be talking a little bit about the Bears coming up next. And listen, if you compare what's being said in Chicago with what's being said about another rookie quarterback in the league right now, I know Caleb's second year, but one of them's very positive. And the other is Ben Johnson. So that's next year on the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis.

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Bears, I don't know. We will see. So, you know, I like Caleb Williams. I liked him coming out of USC. I like the potential that I saw from him. I didn't quite think face of the NFL like some folks did. But clearly, the guy has some skills, the escapeability, the, the improvisation throwing on the run.

Like, there's a lot to like about Caleb Wood. So he comes into his rookie year. We know Iber Fluse and company were really gassing him up. Almost too positive and upbeat, and then it quickly went downhill. And Caleb was kind of on an island by himself. The new regime is Ben Johnson. And this is interesting. I don't know that much about Ben Johnson.

He was kind of a quiet, behind-the-scenes guy, really was in demand for his offensive creativity. But, you know, with some of the great coaches, you learn that Belichick, okay, his dad, you know, a hardcore football guy, assistant coach all his life, was, you know, grew up in Annapolis, Maryland. Belichick was breathing football the whole time. We know about Nick Sabin and West Virginia and all the coal mining stuff. Like, we know the hard scrabble upbringing of some of these all-time coaches.

We even know a little bit about Brian Dable's background in New York. I don't know anything. about Ben Johnson. There just isn't a ton about his entire life. So I don't know what he is like as a coach, as a person. I just don't. I don't think many people do. This is first go-round.

But I'm listening to the messaging coming out of New York about their young quarterback, Jackson Dart. And I can't help but think it's the entire opposite of what we're hearing the messaging from Ben Johnson regarding his guy, Caleb Williams. And I know Bears fans got upset with me yesterday, oh, you're a hater and all this nonsense. But forget about what I'm saying. Listen to Joe Shane, the GM of the Giants,

talking about his rookie quarterback, Jackson Dart, who ain't even going to start. Okay? He's maybe the backup. I don't know, third string, but this is the messaging on their rookie quarterback, Jackson Dart. I think Dave just said it a million times. Russ is our quarterback, so that's what we're rolling with,

and the timeline will be the timeline. it works out. With rookie quarterbacks, I would always say how long it's going to take them to get up to speed and be able to go out and execute it. It's one thing to be able to learn in the classroom and regurgitate it, but to go out and actually execute it and do it quickly and correctly, I would say Jackson, you know, impressed me in terms of, not that he couldn't do it or we didn't think he could, but impress me in terms of how quick he was able to pick it up and actually go execute and play fast. Jackson Dart, okay? somebody who covers the draft or puts together Montdrafts had Jackson Dart as the second quarterback take.

It just wasn't a thing. If you had odds on that in Vegas, congratulations. You are wealthy right now. Not Powerball wealthy, but you did good for yourself. So now you go to Ben Johnson. And I know he's not dealing with a rookie, but you could argue he's dealing with a rookie because it was such a bad rookie year for him. Here's Ben Johnson on Caleb. Remember what you just heard about Joe Shea and the GM on Jackson Dart. the standard has been set, the bar has been set high, he has said that he wants to be not just one of the best top five quarterbacks in this league, but he wants to have a legacy that lasts for a long time. And so we're coaching him that way. We're approaching it that way. That's not going to change.

Is he going to be a finished product here year two? No, he's going to continue to get better year in and year out, and it's a process. And so we're very clear on that. You know, there is a little bit of grace here as we go through it. We know he's learning. He's going to take his bumps. But at the same time, as long as we're not making the same mistake twice, we're going to be right on track and we'll be just fine. Again, I'm not like analyzing every sentence, but there's a lot of negativity.

Hey, there's going to be a grace period. He's going to take his bumps. Like just a lot of not positive stuff. Meanwhile, in New York, hey, we love Jackson Dart. Oh, my gosh, he's ahead of schedule, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know Caleb and his family, they pay attention. attention to the media, okay? Caleb's family was very close with a writer leading up to the draft where they told the writer, yeah, we don't want to be here.

Like, I think you've got to be careful with what you're saying, Ben Johnson, and I know that even former Bears players right now are like, we good, we're fine, he's going to be the best quarterback. That's maybe possible, but I just don't like what I'm hearing in Chicago. Now, Rachel had a good point yesterday or two days ago about how Ben Johnson held him out of, we, week one in the preseason. Obviously, he played in other games. I don't think he looked great. And yeah, there's a learning curve. But you know who did look great is Jackson Dart in New York.

And again, I don't think Jackson Dart's like going to be some pro bowler or Hall of Famer. Caleb Williams supposed to be big time, Rachel. Maybe I'm on an island here, but I don't love this early vibes on Caleb Williams. I mean, look, clearly at the beginning of the preseason, he didn't. think that Caleb going out there was in Caleb's best interest, right? Even though there was all this controversy, why isn't he playing? What does that really mean? Is Caleb in trouble? You know, is he really not that good? That talk was preferable in Ben Johnson's eyes to him going out there

and screwing the pooch in a way that would make the talk even more substantive about whether he was good or bad. So we don't know if actually that's what would have happened, but that was clearly Johnson's opinion about what would have happened because he sat him. So he said he said he needs to more time to get ready. So it's hard to tell whether this is just sort of a bumpy start of two styles coming together and Johnson coming in and having all these ideas. It's the first time as a head coach, right? So you sit back for 20 years and think, these are all the things I'm going to do when I finally get my shot. And Caleb's kind of on the other end of that, right? So it's hard to tell if this is just the way it's beginning because you've got someone with a bunch of ideas

and a quarterback who, frankly, didn't have much coaching prior to this. So it's sort of hard to get all the pieces to fit together. And once they've got it, it's going to be great. Or if it's an indication on Caleb Williams. We don't know yet. The most recent example, and it's not apples to apples, but Sean Payton goes to Denver. He's got his veteran quarterback in Russell Wilson.

Russ had the run of the place the year prior. He's got an office. He's got a great parking spot. Peyton comes in. Yeah, that's all squashed. And they butted heads. And listen, people won't admit it. But I'm pretty sure Ben and Caleb are budding heads a little bit.

Caleb is, I mean, this guy was a five-star recruit. He goes to Oklahoma supplant Spencer Rattler. Hey, you're going to USC Lincoln. I'm coming with you. Wins a superstar winning everything. Number one pick. Coddle last year. I just, I'm very curious to see how this shakes out first month.

Remember, Tyson Bejant got a surprising little contract there. Yeah. What, like a week ago, two weeks ago? A couple weeks ago, yeah. It's a great story on its own, by the way. Yes, indeed. All right, let's go to Rachel with the news. No, no, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Arch Banning will make his highly, highly anticipated debut as the Longhern's unquestioned starter on Saturday at Ohio State, right here on Fox. Obviously, he's had relatively little experience at the college level, but that hasn't stopped Buckeyes coach Ryan Day from talking him up. And with Arch, man, athletic, big, strong arm, smart, quick release, accurate, you know, all the, above. I mean, he checks every box. I think they had their mind set up that they wanted to play down south. And we a little bit here and there for sure with his dad, Cooper, but not a whole bunch. He kind of had his mindset. But yeah, heck of a player.

Ryan Day, referring to the fact that he also tried to recruit Arch Manning. Jason, I'm not sure if any other highly touted college quarterback has ever had their sort of debut as the official QV-1 against such tough competition, right? I mean, normally you get that parade of cupcakes when you start, especially when they're trying to get easy the guy in. And this time around, we've got the college football committee saying strength of schedule, strength of schedule, and we have this kind of matchup. Do you think, are you going to take into account who he's playing against when you evaluate him

week one or are you just going to say, how does he do? Yeah, even if he's terrible, let's say he's 14 of 28, 150 yards, they lose by 20. Like, this is against Ohio State. Now the opposite, Rachel, let's be positive. If he goes in there, throws for 300 yards and they win, I think this hype machine is going to get out of control, next level stuff. It's just such a fascinating matchup. It's very exciting.

Listen, we usually don't have to wait this long for a guy to make his big splashy debut. If he had played against Georgia or who they fit, Clemson, I don't think we would be as excited, but he's kind of still a mystery, right? And most guys who are this highly touted go on to have great careers. You, I know, have been a little skeptical about what do we even know about this guy already? I don't want to be too scared. We've got some Texas guys on staff who are very confident. But we'll see.

Arch Banning noon on Fox Saturday. Cannot wait. This isn't a great game. I'm super pumped about this. All right, let's talk about the 49ers. We know they love Brock Purdy. They just gave him a five-year, $265 million contract extension. but former Niner Pro Bowl of Vernon Davis going a step further.

He said, pretty, quote, makes great decisions. He's very accurate. His attitude toward the game is amazing. I'd compare him to Drew Breeze. Jamack, what do you think of that? Hall of Fame Drew Breeze? Is that same Drew Brees? That would be that, Drew Breed.

Make sure he didn't have a brother. Brother Breeze? Sometimes, you know this. You've been in sports long enough forage. Like, you just pick somebody and you're like, I like this guy. I like the cut of his jib. I want to rock with this guy. I'm going to be a fan.

I'm going to follow him. And for some reason, I saw that with Purdy early. And I was like, I like this guy. Underdog, seventh round pick. He was good at Iowa State. And then, but stuck around for four years, kind of picked apart in the draft process. He's just been so good. And I know he's got Shannon.

Yeah. Which certainly helps. But Trey Lance was the number two pick and could not work with Shanahan. You know? So I like Purdy. I mean, listen, Drew Breeze is, that's high brace. Well, look, if you compare, just stay within the Niners organization. Joe Montana and Steve Yon, right?

I mean, the icons. The icons are the icons, right? So we don't know what Brock Birdie's going to turn into. I'm not in any way saying that he's Joe Montana or Steve Yon. However, if you look at their first two seasons and you match up against his first two seasons. Uh-oh. What do we have? Bertie comes out ahead, right?

Stat-wise completely. in the first 26 games, more wins, more accurate, more yards, more and better yards per attempt, better TD to pick margin, higher pass a rating than Joe or Steve. Very interesting. Wow. So he's above breeze?

And this is Bernie and Breeze. Joe and Steve Young? Just for those first 26 games. And then listen, Steve Young, I'm trying to think Bill Walsh was certainly with Montana. I don't know if it was for his first three, but like Bill Walsh, obviously a genius. Yeah.

I forgot who Drew Brees had early. Was it Peyton that early in his first three years? Well, he is at the Chargers first. That's right. He started with the Chargers, yeah. Listen, I'm a Brock Purdy guy. I'm a truther. What could I?

25 picks, that's way lower than Breeze. He's good. He's an easy guy to root for. You know, no drama. There was the stories about how he was making so little money. He had like a roommate. He was driving some old car. Like, I like that stuff.

And his teammates really like him. I think that, to me, that's one of the first things. I find out about a guy when I'm going to do a profile on him or something like that. What does everyone around him say about? Because that's how you know. Yeah. If anybody writes a profile about me, they should just ask the staff. The staff here loves me. Oh my, we hang out all the time. Constantly. I don't hang out with anybody. I don't have a life. Sorry. Let's talk about another universally beloved figure. No controversy about him. Bill Belichick. He in North Carolina, the group says they are ready to go for their opening game. He's giving some

credit for being ready to the program at the University of Washington. Remember when Bill had his year off, right, after the NFL, his son, Steve, was the defensive coordinator at UW. Belchek was a frequent visitor, practices, games, actually spoke to the team a bunch, met with certain players to give them advice, and he called Washington a, quote, template to his program. He said the style of sort of their mixing of college and pro is what really convinced him he could do the same thing at North Carolina. Of course, I personally would like to note that that all sounds very nice.

Belchick, at the end of this time, being a guest of their program, poached four of their players in the transfer portal, and took the top two assistants. But, you know, that's fine. He's giving them a lot of credit now. What do you think, sort of of this idea that he didn't go to Alabama, right? He didn't go to OSU to say, how do you guys do it? He went to this smaller program because he felt like this is,

more of what I want to do. Do we know if Jordan Hudson had any saying? Oh, wow. I'm sorry. Wow. Why he was going to North Carolina. But that's interesting because Kailin DeBoer was at Washington. He's now out of Alabama. And

because they had a good team. Michael Penix, Roma, Junze. Yeah, they were pretty damn good and they aired it out. That is interesting. I'm excited for there's so much good stuff happening in college football. between Arch Manning and Belichick, those storylines, they rival a lot of the NFL stuff. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So what's your guess on UNC this year?

Eight wins, ten? Nine, you said nine yesterday. I feel like that might. I'm more in the eight camp, maybe. I think it's seven and a half in Vegas. Yeah, I think eight. Let's give them the half game, right? Well, they ain't losing to Richmond or Charlotte.

Yeah, exactly. Just that TCU game, I think it's Monday, is going to be a big one. Because if you win that, I think the hype machine gets excited. and we're like, all right, it's all about, can we take down Clemson? You know, if Clemson happens to lose to LSU, then you get excited. I mean, there's coaches of the teams on the schedule who have an enormous amount of experience. But there are also coaches on the teams of the schedule who do not. And there is no situation in the game of football that Bill Belchick has not been in,

where he will not know exactly what to do in exactly the right moment with the exactly right stringed pole. And in addition to everything about the program and the players and the transfers and all the stuff, but in second split decision making, I think is going to be a factor to his success. I'm with you. Rachel, with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Herd Lie News. All right, coming up next, we're going to talk to a former NFL GM. What is the end game in Dallas with Micah and Jerry? That's next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in Dever. tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many. incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Back here on the herd. Oh, boy, this next guest, he is one of the most accomplished front office guys in recent NFL history. He's worked at, he's currently working with UVA, Iowa.

and Utah, Scott Piole. Let's bring him in, work with the Falcons Chiefs, Patriots, briefly, my Jets. Scott, how you doing, man? J. Mack, I'm doing great. I know Rachel's over there, so what's up, Rachel, how are you? Hey, Scott, how you been? Yeah, we are.

Doing well, thanks, doing well. Thanks for having me. I really, really appreciate it. Great to be here. Yeah, it's been an awesome week. We're having a lot of fun. Now, we're not having as much fun as Charlottesville, Virginia, a town I know well. No one ever does. By the way, how are things looking for the, for the calves? this year. Hey, this is, it's, you know, I'm not good of predicting things and I was always,

you know, I never predict, but I'll tell you what, being around Tony Elliott, being around their athletic director, Carla Williams, there is some special stuff going on here. Now, we never know, right, if all the great stuff that's happening translates to wins, but I'll tell you what, the way that Tony's doing things, the way that this athletic department is doing things, it's going to be a lot of fun. A lot of fun. They just do things the right, and they work on the right stuff. College football is going through like a big transformational period with all this NIL. Are you, I mean, as someone who worked in the NFL and you're now seeing this,

and I mean, it's like a totally different game, sport almost. Yeah. Yeah, J. Mack, it's fascinating. You know, I started, when I left the Falcons after the 2019 draft, Nick Saban hired me to come to do some work for him at the University of Alabama as a consultant. And then Coach Kirby, you know, Kirby Smart brought me in there. And then I work for a number of different schools and for Marcus up at Notre Dame. Anyway, they had me doing this one thing.

But as this has evolved, you're right. It's becoming in a lot of ways very similar to professional sports. And not just for football programs, but for entire athletic departments, right? Each athletic department that's in these power four conferences, they have $20.5 million to spend, not on football, but on all sports. So they're trying to figure out their revenue sharing. how are they going to build their model of how they're going to pay student athletes not only in football but in every sport so I'm spending some time and I tell you it's a lot of fun and there's so many similarities and you know I'm down for players being paid I absolutely think that they should be I just hope that they start to build in some things that make some of the crazy a little bit more certain so and what do you think in like building in like can't transfer out to multiple times? or what kind of things do you think? You know, the transfer thing is always so touchy, right?

Because people always go after the players when they transfer. But let's remember, coaches change jobs too, right? So I get the transfer portal, yet I'm not smart enough to figure out those answers, but there are people out there a lot smarter than me that can figure out some of the constructs that we can put in place to help young people. And I'm going to sound like an old man here, but to help focus on being able to chase your dream,

chase something, chase something better, but also have a degree of commitment and accountability. And when I say that, that doesn't mean that kids shouldn't be able to transfer, but we need to put things in that make it more sensible and easier for them to understand why they're doing, not just that life's gotten too tough and I'm not starting, so I got to go somewhere else.

There's a lot to it, but I really hope that they continue to build things out the right way. But I'm down for so much that, so many of the changes they have made. And it's funny you use that phrasing. I'm not playing. I want to go somewhere else. A guy you were part of draft. Tom Brady famously sat for a long time at Michigan, got his chance. But yeah, anyways. Yeah. But you talk to money. He has said publicly the fact that he was pushed to go through the grind and to be uncomfortable and to have to work and do more and suffer a little bit, it also made him less entitled when he got there.

Certainly, yeah. Let's talk money. And a gentleman in Dallas, Micah Parsons, I kind of opened the show saying, listen, I don't think Jerry Jones is serious about football and putting together a good product. He cares about his name and the headlines and the valuation of the Cowboys because otherwise he wouldn't wait for the last minute to sign Dak and Lamb

and now Micah Parsons. And it's getting ugly. Michael Parsons getting a second opinion on his back. His brother is tweeting out this is going 12. rounds. You've been in some ugly standoffs, I assume. But what's your takeaway here? Yeah. Unfortunately, I have been a part of those

things. And I've always felt that the best thing to do is to say nothing publicly on either side. You don't want to try to leverage people publicly. And I think once one side says something, then the other side feels like they have to say something and

becomes this unnecessary competitiveness. And the bottom line is Michael wants to get paid. Micah should get paid, he should get paid a lot of money. And Jerry wants to pay him. They just have to figure this thing out. I don't know Jerry's reasons for making things and doing things and doing business the way he does. But my instincts tell me that he's going to make sure that he gets business done at some point in time.

I can't believe that he or Stephen would ever let a player of Micah's ability get out of that building. And the toughest thing as you bring up, J-Mac, is you just hope during these kind of, you know, these controversial negotiations, you just need to work as hard as possible to keep family business, family business, because inevitably, if you talk publicly, someone's going to say something that hurts the other side and you hope that you can reel that stuff in later on. So I'm obsessed with team building. I really love talking about this stuff. and we have a graphic I hope they could pull it that we used earlier in the show about that 2021 draft class that Micah Parsons was in

and listen Scott all the best guys Trevor Lawrence Jamar Chase Patrick Surton they all were paid early right you get that out of the way listen you worked in front offices there's one guy of all the stars from this draft class in the first round who has

not been paid there's also one who's been the all pro three times only one and it's Michael Parsons So you know this. I can't say I agree with the way that business is getting done. And here's the thing, if you pay someone early, it's going to be at a discount. Because wherever the tide is right now, however high it is right now, it's going to be less next year. And that's with every position because every year we read every single position, every year has a new record setting contract done at its position.

That's the way it happened. And so the earlier that you get a deal done, the more potential savings. Is it cash out the door right now? Yes, it is. But there's more potential savings. And, you know, I don't know too many teams that have signed really good players that maintain playing well where it ends up being a bad deal. The only bad deals is when the player stinks it up or the player gets injured and then it doesn't work out. So I'm all about the – and that's how we were most every place I ever worked.

You tried to get the contracts done. You brought Tom Brady before. We got that deal done early. And because we did, he was, not only did he give us a discount, but because of the market that we negotiated the contract in, it was a discount just naturally. Yeah, again, I don't want to call out Jerry Jones too much. He's kind of powerful.

But Scott, when you just think about that, what you just said, everywhere I've worked for the last 20 years and you work with a lot of champs, that's how they do business. He seems to be the only one not doing it that way. Is there any guess as to why other than he likes seeing his name in the headlines? No, but here's the other thing I'll say. Here's the other thing.

He's a billionaire for a reason. So he knows how to do business, right? He has done something right or a bunch of something's right when it comes to business to make money. He didn't just fall off the turnip truck. He's done some smart things in his life to make money. Why he does it this way? I don't know. And I'm also not very good at speculating as why people make certain decisions.

So to do business a certain way. But, you know, Jerry has clearly done business that I have because I'm not looking at the bank account that he is. Well, you know, okay, we won't get it as billionaire status. I totally forgot about this. So we talked about Brock Purdy yesterday. And I am a Brock Purdy guy. I don't mind gassing him up. I feel like I can rock with this guy.

I love his story. you were with Brady in the early years when he took over for Bloodsoe. And I keep trying to tell people, like, I'm a nerdy sports fan. I was following the league. Tom Brady, despite winning that first Super Bowl, was thought of as a game manager for several years. Isn't that what the storyline was with Brady? Like, hey, Bloodso, that's the guy. It was.

Yeah. But, again, revision's history on things is very interesting. And with Tommy, you know, it was interesting. He was, and again, a game manager. isn't a bad thing. When you're called a game manager, that generally means you're doing a lot of really smart stuff. You're making a lot of really good decisions, and you're winning football games, usually. And with Brady, he was still developing. And I think there's different kind of game managers. Is it a game manager that's developing? And again, I've never, I don't know why people

get insulted by game managing, you know, being called gay managers, because that's part of the job of being the quarterback that's part of what you have to do when we started things early on tommy was still developing he was developing his skills he was developing his accuracy he was developing his foot movement his movement in the pocket and we had a really good defense people forget that we had a 1200 yard rusher in antoine smith we had a really really good defense and he was surrounded by good people and good players therefore that made his development better and and the other thing about player development, particularly the quarterback position, I still believe it's very much circumstantial. And Tommy was in the right program for him, and he was the right guy for us. So it wasn't

one or the other. And it wasn't just Tommy and Bill. I mean, Dick Raybond did an incredible job working with him his first year. Charlie Weiss did an incredible job. He also did a super job of play calling to the strengths of Tom Brady. And that's what Kyle Shanahan is doing with Brock Purdy. You know, I think quarterbacks need to end up in the right situations and the right people. It has to be the right marriage. And it gives them a chance to develop. And there's a lot of things that are really right for Brock Purdy. You know, between Kyle and Bobby Turner, their running back coach and what Kyle learned from his dad, Mike,

they know the running game. They are incredible in the running game, which allows them to play action pass, which really helps Purdy in terms of his protection and how much time he has. So it all kind of works together, J. Mac. I love that. What a great answer. And I don't want to act like game managers derogatory. But when these quarterback lists come out, Scott, it's always like, oh, yeah, Brock Purdy's like 10, 18.

And I'm like, guys, he's been dominant for three years. And Jemak, you're 100% right. Here's the other thing is look at how many games he's won. And more importantly, one of our sayings was always, you know, you end up losing more games than you win. Yeah. Right? And when you look at those quarterbacks, how many games have they lost? I'm not talking about wins and losses, but did they lose you games? Are they doing dumb things in order for you to lose games?

That's not what you're looking for. And Brock doesn't do that. Hope people are listening to Scott Piole, longtime NFL fixture in front offices. Great stuff. And enjoy the college seasons, buddy. Jay Mack, thanks very much. Rachel, take care. See you, Scott. Coming up next, college football, tears. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the... the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house,

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

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