The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 1 - The Heat win game 2

Episode Date: June 5, 2023

Thoughts on the Heat winning game 2 of the NBA Finals The Eagles almost made a huge mistake when it comes to Jalen Hurts Ja Morant could possibly be suspended for half the season  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast.

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It's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. A lot of choices out there. Thanks for making us. Party your day. One hour from now where Colin was right. Where Colin was wrong. There was plenty of both.

J. Mack, you got back last week. I had a little delay in my flight. I am back. I am rested. I mostly caught up on my sleep. We have ourselves an NBA final now. Indeed. Good to have you back, big guy.

Six or seven games. Looks like a real. thing. Wow, no more sweep, huh? I don't buy into the sweet, Tom. It's great to be back. They watch a lot of basketball overseas. You find that out very quickly. They love their basketball. So let's start with this. Miami last night was the best team for the first five minutes.

Miami last night was the best team for the final five minutes, and Denver was better every second in between. And Miami won. Was it coaching? Was it fight? Was it focus? I don't know. But I think it is what a great culture provides, and Miami has that,

which is at your very best in these high leverage moments. For years and years, I lived out in Connecticut. I watched it up close and personal for a decade. It lasted 20 years. It always felt like the Patriots were better early on that first drive, would take a lead, and they were way better late. Often outplayed in the big chunks in the middle of the football game, not always the most talented team.

start with a lead, very good late. That was the Patriots way. And that was last night for Miami in these high-leveraged situations. But what is interesting to me is that we view football as not as dependent on stars. It's a community, right, playing together, choreography. But the minute Brady left, the culture died. And yet here are the Miami Heat in the NBA, a talent and star-dependent sport. Shaq left, they're fine.

LeBron left, pretty quick, they're fine. D. Wade left, they're fine. It's the basketball franchise in the star-driven sport. In the star-dependent sport, it's that culture, not the Patriots that survived the loss of great stars. And I think what's happening when I watch the series, it's becoming a little bit of an analytic series. Miami doesn't have the size. They're going to shoot more threes. And last night they hit them.

what's concerning if you're Denver is in both game one and game two, Miami got great open looks from outside. They just couldn't make any in the first game. Understandable. They didn't have their legs. They went up to 5,500 feet in Denver. They did not have their legs. Extra days rest on the road, get acclimated.

What did they do last night? Great from the outside. Now, Denver is a more length-driven team, more twos. So Denver's probably in this series going to be the more consistent offense with fewer peaks and valleys. Miami will have those, but it doesn't mean they're not the better team. So when I watched it yesterday, my takeaway was they still have a Tyler Hero advantage. Miami's doing this without arguably their best three-point shooter. He hadn't played yet.

So what you get from Denver is what you get. Miami stole home court advantage and they got a secret weapon. They can insert at any time. They will eventually when we don't know. So it's two very different styles of basketball. The bigger lean in on the twos, the dominant center score against the team on the perimeter that will have ebbs and peaks and valleys and ebbs and. But last night they hit them early.

and late. And at such a chess match, what was interesting to me is, whereas Spoe probably won three games on coaching alone against Joe Missoula. He may win one game as the best coach in the league in this series. Mike Malone knows what he's doing, though. And what was the first thing he did? He didn't wait until tomorrow's practice. He didn't wait until his team got to Miami. Mike Malone, his turn to make a chess move, and what did he do immediately after the game? He said this. Let's talk about effort. I mean, this is NBA finals, and we're talking about effort.

That's a huge concern of mine. You know, and you guys probably thought I was just making up some storyline after game one when I said we didn't play well. We didn't play well. We had guys out there that were just, whether feeling sorry for themselves or not making shots or thinking they can just turn it on or off. this is not the preseason. It's not the regular season. This is not the NBA finals.

And that to me is really, really perplexing, disappointing. He didn't even wait until they got to Miami. He wants the Denver Nuggets. Go home, think about it, get on that plane, realizing they were out fought. They didn't play as hard. The classic Phil Jackson, right after the game, send a message to either the officials or them or your own locker room. Great move by Mike Malone. Disappointed. I mean, what is the worst thing a boss can say to you?

Not yell at you. The worst thing a boss can ever say is, I'm really disappointed in you. It's the worst thing my wife can say. You're better than that. You think about it all week. He just said, I'm really disappointed. I don't even know what to make of it. It's the finals.

My guys didn't really play hard. Another chess move. And now you've got, I suppose probably the best coach. in the league, but you've got closer to two equals in the Denver staff and the Miami staff. My guess is Denver goes back and wins game three in Miami. Miami then wins game four. We come back to Denver. All nodded up.

It's going to be a great series. All right. So I saw this. This is interesting. We consider the Philadelphia Eagles to be a well-run franchise. Won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles. Got there with Jalen Hertz. They wanted Russell Wilson.

and they had Jalen Hertz. According to two reporters, Doug Farrar of USA Today and Greg Bishop, sI.com, the Eagles wanted to trade for Russell Wilson, and Jalen Hertz was in-house. It was Russell Wilson who turned him down. Now, your first thought is,

for all the people that think Russell Wilson's washed, Russell Wilson is cringy, you could say, what a terrible decision by Russell Wilson. But both Philadelphia and Denver had all sorts of good players. He could have gone to either. But Russell.

Wilson turned it down. But what it really shows is the Eagles already had Jalen Hertz in house and were ready to bail on him. So in March of 2022, they made the move. Here was the season that Jalen Hertz was coming off of and here is the season in Seattle that Russell Wilson was coming off of and it wasn't close. Russell was significantly more accurate as a thrower, had a much better TD to interception ratio and a significantly higher passer rating. It wasn't close. Russell turn the Eagles down. And what it really provides is something I think about all the time in any industry. The difference between stardom and Sia is support.

Do you have somebody there to support you? Almost came down for the second time in Jalen Hertz's career, happened at Alabama, where, eh, we like that guy better. That guy over there is better. Now, he bounced back, went to Oklahoma, ended up being passed over by every team in the league went in the second round. But it also proves two things, that personnel evaluation is really hard. I mean, Brock Purdy went in the seventh round. Belichick can't draft a skill player to save his life, and I've talked to Hall of Fame executives that sheepishly acknowledged they have completely whiffed on picks.

All that film, all that scouting, total whiff, first, second, third round picks. That's the first thing. The second thing, the hardest position to figure out is quarterback. And the reason Jimmy Johnson once talked about it on this show is that quarterback is highly reliant on two factors that are really hard to quantify. Leadership. I once asked Jimmy Johnson, Troy Aitman, great leader. What is it?

He goes, I don't know. I don't really know. I don't really know how to explain Troy Aikman. He was just a really good A. He was a really good leader. I can't quantify it. And the other thing is, resilience, not to pout, not to go in a corner, you get beat up, you get benched, resilient, come back stronger than ever. So Howie Roseman, GM of the Eagles, one of the best GMs in the league, has gotten to two Super Bowls with quarterbacks nobody liked.

Nick Foles and Jalen Hertz. And we now discover not even Philadelphia, we're sure they like Jalen Hertz. The difference again in almost every industry between stardom and see you later is just support. Moments of support. My dad often said your career will be decided when you're not in the room. Lubricate don't agitate. In the end, they were ready to move off Jalen Hertz, and now the city loves him. Gets along with people, works hard, very resilient, resilient, leadership.

skills didn't pout probably knew about this by the way before the reporters did i'm sure his agent knew about it and he knew about it jalen hurts didn't pout jalen hurts didn't care jalen hurts didn't hold a grudge jalen hurts wanted to prove that he was worth the risk and he is all right right calling wrong top of next hour so as i was watching i was watching i'm I watched game one. I watched on YouTube. And I'm watching last night. And I'm not sure how to classify Jimmy Butler.

I think he's probably the most unique player in the NBA. And I'll talk about that on the other side. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me.

Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skisks. gets, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even mute. music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kine's, or when Kine's He said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. End to your first year. Discover credit cards automatically double all the cash pack you've earned. Turn doubled. Check it out for yourself. Discover.com slash match. So I've said this before about UFC, NFL, college football, hockey. You've got to play hard every play or you'll get hurt. Basketball is different. They have load management in the regular season.

The officiating changes in pro basketball. In the postseason, referees swallow a whistle. The officiating changes, the coaching changes, the urgency changes. They're like two different seasons. So when I judge a basketball player, so much of it's why I was never a huge Hardin fan or a Carmelo fan is postseason success. It just matters more. It's a lot easier to score points in the regular season. Load management.

You're not facing all the great players. You often show up and you're the best player. The guy that was going to guard you's off. Playoffs are different. And so I was thinking about watching all these playoffs and who I would consider the 10 best basketball players in the world. All things considered. A lot of guys are close. I think there's four players.

And not all had postseason success this year. Luca didn't. But they're one of ones. They're not perfect players. I worry about Janus and free throws late. Can anybody get along with Luca Donchich? Yokic isn't a great defender or athlete. Curry, again, is small and sometimes gets hurt.

But they're all one of ones. There's nobody in the world that plays like them. They elevate themselves. They often elevate others. The Joker, Yonis, Curry, and Donchage. Then there's six other players. I like a lot. Five all have an issue that we all know. LeBron age, Durant Brittle, Davis consistency, Tatum can shrink in big spots, Embeded injuries. And then there's Jimmy Butler. What the hell do I do with him? Do I put him in Tier 1?

My knock is he's the anti-harden. He's like a B-plus player in the regular season. but he is so dominant in the postseason. Ask yourself this. It's a game seven. Seven minutes left. Who would you take over him? Steph? I mean, seriously, who would you take over him?

He's a very unique player. He didn't score over 40 points in the regular season, but he's already had a 50-plus game in the postseason. His intensity, his value, he's a culture setter, a table-setter. He's a playmaker. shotmaker. To me, he's got this Madison,

Baumgartner, Eli Manning quality where he's actually better in crisis, better on neutral fields or on the road, better when you doubt him, better against great players. He's a very unique NBA player. We have, I can name,

20 NBA players who shrink in the playoffs, who were all world in February, all nothing in June. And then there's Jimmy Butler, a completely unique player with a chip on his shoulder and an attitude to go along with it. Here's his thoughts on last night's win. At the end of the day, that's what we fall back on. Make or miss shots, we're going to be who we are because we're not worried about anybody else.

It's how it's been all year long, and that's not going to change. So that's what I think it is. I think it's the I don't give a damn factor. He's got plenty of that. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Do you know that Miami's the only eight seed in league history to win a finals game on the road? In the history of the NBA, an eight seed won a road finals game. Do you want to take a gander at the game three line in Miami? Denver by one and a half. Close. Denver by two and a half. I think I'd take Denver.

I like Denver in game three, Miami and game four. I think it's going to go back and four. Extra day off. Just remember of rest. That's big in this series. helps Miami, I think, way, way, we got a huge story coming up in like three minutes. All right, first up, Eagles, one of the best teams in the league last year, went to the Super Bowl. Jalen Hertz, nearly the MVP.

He's 24 years old, and the Eagles think he can take another jump and become an elite precision pocket passer. Is that kind of possible for him this year? Can he improve much more? I was going to say, I don't consider the pocket passing to be an issue. The only knock I have on Jalen Hertz is the coaching staff running him too much. I think he's fine from the pocket. New offensive coordinator? Well, it's like the undersized quarterback, Tua, Tua's fine from the pocket.

Russell Wilson, he's fine from the pocket. You don't have to be Mahomes. I never think Jalen Hertz can't throw it from the pocket. We've talked about this with Lamar. Lamar's fine from the pocket. He's not Joe Burrow. So do you remember that before last season, Jalen Hertz, coming into last season, this Russell stuff, he had that playoff game against Tampa.

He could not deliver from the pocket. He looked like he couldn't read a defense. It was a great defense, though. It was a great defense, and he didn't have AJ Brown. That's right. Fast forward a year, and he's like a top five quarterback. Is that too much of a jump in from a guy? Like, I think they were down 31-0 against Tampa in that playoff.

Yeah, I mean, he led the NFL last year from the pocket. When I watch him play, I never, ever think, I don't trust him in the pocket. So outlier or? No, that's who. No, now, I don't think it's an outlier. I think this is who he is. Shane Steichen, great O.C., left Herbert and Jalen Hertz. Herbert wasn't quite as good without him.

So let's say he takes a dip, a 10% dip. Josh Allen took a 10% dip. He's still great. Like, I know everybody wants to bang on Josh Allen. He had 35 touchdowns last year. Like, Jalen hurts, it's official. He's legit. Do you want to hear the first five games the Eagles play next year?

I do. At New England. Win. It's probably a win. Versus Minnesota. Win. It's a terrible defense. At Tampa.

Win. Arguably the worst team in the league. Versus Washington. Win. At L.A. Good game. Oh, stop it. Hertz is probably going to start 5 and 0.

Yeah. And he's probably going to be an MVP camera. All right. Are you ready for this? This just broke here in the last 15 minutes. What? Whoa, whoa, whoa. So, and just take your time on this.

So Kyrie Irving is going to become a free agent this offseason. And according to two reporters who dropped the story almost at identical times, Shams and Chris Haynes, that Kyrie Irving has reached out to LeBron James about the potential of joining he and Luca Donchitz for a big three in Dallas. Both reporters dropped this at the exact same time on a Monday morning reports of a big three of Kyrie LeBron and Luca in Dallas. Now buried, I read the Chris Hayne story. This is like eight paragraphs in.

LeBron would have to take a pay cut for it to happen. Oh, God. Is that happening? Come on. Well, no, let's ask yourself. So you're LeBron James. Luca is better than Anthony Davis and plays 70 games younger in his prime. Don't have to worry about AD going crumpling down and you carry the team.

So what have I talked about, LeBron James? The problem with LeBron and AD's relationship now, they both need a Luca. They both need an Anthony Edwards. They both need a Jason Tatum. They need the guy who'll play 70 games. So when LeBron and AD first came together, we were like, this is perfect. but they have both aged very quickly. So I'm LeBron James, and I look at this and I think,

okay, this is what I need for the last three years. I have no, now, is Kyrie Kooky? Yeah. But again, if Luca and LeBron are there, Kyrie can flake out. Luca and LeBron on the floor. Hold him. I think LeBron has to take that call.

Well, yeah, he's got to take the call, but his son just is going to USC. His family is in L.A. It's called Gulf Stream. No, he's not leaving the Lakers for Dallas. So I've had some more time to process this than you. I just told it to you. So I instantly start thinking, like, why do these two reporters drop this right now?

What's going on? So one thing happened when you were gone is that Phoenix announced Frank Vogel as their head coach. And a lot of people around the NBA are like, ooh, Frank Vogel has a history with Roy Hibbert. He loved centers in L.A. with AD and Dwight Howard and Javelle McGee. He works well with centers. DeAndre Aiton probably not going to get traded now in Phoenix. Remember the speculation for Buechr and others was like Kyrie for DeAndre Aten? So I think Kyrie knows he don't have options anymore in Dallas.

And maybe Dallas knows we don't have to offer him a big contract. And so Kyrie's using LeBron's name to try to manufacture and get what he wants. Something feels fishy about this, Con, because we know LeBron's not going to the Dallas. Okay. He's going to say, get Kyrie to L.A. Do you think he'd pick the phone up? Of course. Do you think he would talk about it with his wife?

Do you think he'd talk about it with his wife? No, I don't think it would go that far. You think they would leave L.A.? I think it would warrant a half-hour conversation with his wife. You know what else would? Who do you trust more next season? Austin Reeves or Kyrie Irving? Luca Donchage.

Stop. I'm telling you, the idea that you could team up with Luca. Boy, that is. So the guy who missed like, 20 straight three-pointers in the Denver series? I can't wait to team up with Luca. And that's LeBron. LeBron, by the way, one of the issues that I think Denver has is they can't find somebody

that plays perfectly with him. Kyrie doesn't. Porzengis didn't. Jalen Brunson didn't. LeBron plays well with everybody. Jailen Brunson did. They made the Western Conference finals. They did get smoked by the Warriors, but still.

I think you take the phone call. I think this is going to be a topic all week. It is a fun one. All right, final story to the USFL, the Birmingham Stallions, and the Philadelphia stars clashed at a rematch of last year's title game. Stallions won a 27-24 thriller after Alex McGough through a game-winning touchdown with 28 seconds left to improve to a league best six and two. Pretty impressive ending there, Cowher. Do you see that touchdown? I was in the building this weekend watching some USFL. You were here.

Well, I had to get some, you know, I'd been gone for a while. I had to get some stuff. I was supposed to be on the show Friday, long story, flight delay. You know, it's hard to get off the island. Blah, blah, blah. Hard to get off the, yeah, yeah. I had to last minute. They called me from the bullpen.

They were McIntyre. Come on out. Can you handle it solo three hours? But, you know, I've done that before. Do you do what you do? This is what I do. I deliver in the clutch like Jimmy Butler. That's right.

That's exactly how I would frame it. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. All sorts of stuff this morning. I saw this on John Morant. This was interesting.

So, he's facing a suspension. Now, he had an eight-game suspension during the season, but reportedly the commissioner, Sam Amico of Hoopswire, says that there's a belief inside the NBA that he is going to be suspended for the entire first half of the NBA season, John Morant. NBA has been able to accumulate more and more information

on the guns and some of their, you know, the stuff we all saw on social media apparently is worth. and it's layered and there's more of it. But as I watch these NBA playoffs, and I guess the NBA has always been like this, there's like highlight players who are stars and then franchise guys. And you watch the heat culture and the nuggets and the warriors.

And it makes John Morant seem small and juvenile and silly and kind of irrelevant. He's a highlight reel. That's now what he is. You're not going to build a franchise around him. You can't depend. him. He's a fireworks show. You can't build around him. He can't take him seriously. He's not about leadership. And you start looking around this league over the last 20 years. Steph and Janich and

LeBron and D. Wade, a big part of being the man is actually being a man and not a kid that I can build around you. And those guys have been superstars for 10, 20 years. No problems. John Morant was a star for an hour and a half and unraveled. He's a huge talent. He's a massive talent. But when you watch these playoffs, it becomes very clear. You win trophies beyond scoring. Dependability, consistency, being an adult, being dependable, showing up, not getting in trouble. And you can say, well, it's the one and done culture.

He was in college two years. Jason Tatum was only in it for a year. He's a grown-up. Deerrin Fox, who we love. I think he was in college for a year. He was a grown-up. So the John Morant story, I don't blame him for everything. I don't think he had a great support system, apparently from home league organization.

He's culpable. I feel bad for him because it's very hard when we insert 20-year-old players, social media, big pressure, big money, big fame. It's a star-driven league. But when you watch the playoffs and you look at what matters, doesn't it make it look John Morant's just not that guy. You can't build around him. You can enjoy watching him.

Go to YouTube. Great highlights. Fun. I pay to watch him play. I'm not saying you can't cheer him on. But to me, there's two kind of stars. The sense in the NBA has always been, you've got to get a star.

It's not true. You got to get the right star. He's not the right star. He's just talented. He's not the right star. Be sure to catch live editions of The HARD weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker.

Check out my weekly MLB podcast Inside the Parker for 22 minutes of piping hot baseball talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the eye test, we've got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, Untax. filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only

deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what you? went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the AIDS. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, I'll say this. Whenever you travel abroad, you find out how popular basketball is. Baseball, NFL, nobody ever asked me a question. Anytime I leave the country, everywhere you go, young people, basketball, have an opinion on basketball. And not because it's the finals. Basketball travels very, very well. It's the global game. Right now, the best players in the world are Yokic, Luca, Janice, Embed. It is clearly the international global game.

It's interesting. So, LeBron, I tend to defend LeBron. He's got a lot of haters. He's the most loved player in the league, maybe Steph Curry, and he's the most dislike player in the league. And a lot of the people that criticize LeBron think he's a media hog. he needs to be the center of attention. So remember after the Lakers got swept by Denver, LeBron just sort of casually brings up retirement,

and that takes away the attention from the finals. I thought it was very organic. I thought it was authentic. I didn't think he was trying to steal anything. I'm probably in the minority. So when the story comes out today that was broken by two reporters simultaneously, was it LeBron and Clutch Sports just looking to get attention that Kyrie Irving is interested?

and bringing LeBron James to the Dallas Mavericks? I don't know. Is it LeBron trying to get attention? Is it Clutch sports? Is Clutch sports mad at the league? There's a lot of gamesmanship in the NBA a lot. And LeBron's people have a lot of power and will exert it from time to time. I have no idea.

But I will say this. I don't think players in LeBron certainly is loyal to a city like Los Angeles. He's not going to sell his house. He can go watch his son. it's called a Gulfstream. Just get on a private jet. It doesn't matter if you're Mark Cuban, LeBron James, Elon Musk.

Your hometown is wherever you want it to be. You're on a plane. You get stuff done. So Dallas and Los Angeles, two, two and a half hour flights, not that far. I think absolutely he would take a call from the Dallas Mavericks.

If you look at LeBron James' career, what has he left? Okay, so in Cleveland the first time, what did he leave? They didn't have a star. In Miami, they did, but what did he leave? Age. In Cleveland, when he came back the second time, what did he leave?

Kind of the roster. The erratic kiree. Well, if you look at this Laker roster, do I believe LeBron James looks at it? Austin Reeves, Anthony Davis against Yokic, the gap was the Grand Canyon. Yokic is in his prime. AD is now slowly pivoted. out of his prime because he's aged very quickly. LeBron James has been nothing, if not an opportunist, and capitalizing on opportunities.

Luca is in his prime for 10 years. It also serves Dallas is they're trying to find somebody that plays with him. LeBron plays well with everybody. LeBron also has been, I think this is fair to say, LeBron's been dying for AD to take over the number one guy role. LeBron doesn't want to play 70 games. He wants to play 50. He wants to be available in spots to dominate. That's what you get with Luca.

Luca can carry it. Luca can play 42 minutes. Luca play 70 games. And LeBron will be great in spots. He can be a mentor. He can distribute. He can be great in spots. Also, what is LeBron?

Fantastic at getting shooters the ball in the right spot. What is Kyrie? What is Luca? Great, great shooters. They are built for LeBron. So I don't know if you're LeBron James. The story's out now that, you know, they're trying to get Kyrie is interested, LeBron the Mavs. I don't know how you don't take that call.

Even if you weren't thinking about it. Two shooters, one in his prime, you can play 50 games, you can be great in moments. It's perfect. The knock LeBron had this year early in the season, AD got hurt, and LeBron had to play 30. five minutes. He had to carry the franchise until the trading deadline. So I don't know. And by the way, there's a former Nike exec. LeBron's close to that group. Now, running the Dallas Mavericks, that's got to be attractive. A former player, Jason, kid. That doesn't seem crazy to me. That's not a wacko idea.

What about three dominant ball handlers? I mean, Luca needs the ball. LeBron needs the ball. Kyrie Irving wants to be a point card and have the ball all the time. How does that possibly work? It's almost like when KD, Steph, and Clay, you had three great shooters, all need shots, and the guys just figured it out. I think when you have three great talents, it's like the dream teams. It's the Olympic teams. Guys figured out.

If you respect your teammate, you'll give up shots. Luca respects LeBron. He'd give up shots. LeBron respects Luca and Kari. He'd give up shots and handling the ball. I think both, listen, Kyrie can play off the ball. Luca could. He just never does.

By the way, he played off the ball sometimes with Jalen Brunson, and they got to the Western Conference finals. You don't think Luca thinks to himself, you know, I played off the ball sometimes, and we were much better. You can't tell me Luca, who likes to enjoy the spirits of Europe, would not love to have another big body on the floor that could eat minutes? How about the idea everywhere LeBron is gone? He has been the central focus.

I'm going to bring in Chris Bosch. I'm going to bring Kevin Love to Cleveland. I'm going to bring Anthony Davis. Now he's joining Kyrie and Luca. Does that, I don't know that that jives for LeBron. That's a fair argument. I think LeBron, since the bubble, has been praying that AD would take this puppy over. And he didn't.

And he doesn't. And I also think LeBron's very good. Like guys are usually good at starting things. were bad at ending stuff. It could be wars. It could be relationships. Guys are bad at ending stuff. LeBron has a very good sense of timing.

He has always gotten out at the perfect time. He's always understood and he's always had an exit strategy. Miami was a mess when he left. De Wade was falling apart physically. Bosch had the personal physical issues. They didn't have much of a bench. They were getting old. Perfect time.

Same with Cleveland. Kyrie was erratic. Tristan Tom. Thompson in this league now was less important, less viable. Kevin Love was aging. Like LeBron's always understood timing. The time to leave the Lakers is if you were going to leave, now Austin Reeves gets expensive.

That means you got to get rid of guys. Rui's a nice player. He's not a star. LeBron wants to be with stars. Okay, fine. Another counter argument. Remember, the Lakers, after getting Rui Hachimura and Malik. Beasley, DeAngelo Russell. They were the number one ranked defense in the league. You could

argue, wait, how does this team look with a full season of Austin Reeves emerging, Rui Hachimura? Like, maybe they're better than they were last year. They're not like a seven-seat. Maybe they're like a three or four seed in the West with these guys having a full season together, AD healthy, LeBron healthy. Maybe they're ascending as opposed to have maxed out. You don't think Phoenix with Frank Vogel gets DeAndre eight and right? Vogue's... Vogue's... Vos has a lot of stuff to figure out there.

I don't know. If you can get DeAndre Aiton right upstairs, you got KD, you got Devin Booker. When's Chris Paul get hurt? February or March? Or is it April yet? Do we know? Do you want to be cynical?

I'm just saying the Lakers exceeded all expectations in these playoffs. You had Anthony Davis, I'll never forget. First among playoff performers. And now you're like, LeBron, we got a bail on this guy. I'm not saying, but I have been, I have been from day one on AD,

A, you got to consider moving him. You have to consider it. This was the longest stretch of AD being healthy. And by the way, you also got a look at what AD does against the best player in the West, Yokic. Okay. Mismatch. You got a lot of these things that were presented to you. Here he is against Yokic.

He disappeared in half the games. Yokic did whatever he wanted to. I'm just saying you got to take the phone call. It makes Dallas better. And I think privately they'd never admit it. But when LeBron, when Miami, Dan Gilbert felt like he got his franchise back when LeBron left. Pat Riley felt like he got his franchise back when LeBron left.

Jeannie Buss and Rob Polinka, you say what you want. It's kind of LeBron's franchise. You get it back. And it's not like you wouldn't get, you had a third team to this, you get six draft picks. Lakers are going to lose a lot of those primetime TV games with no LeBron James. 80 and Austin Reeds and Ruiz. They're a tough ticket.

this season. Like, it was, the state crypto was popping off. It was like, oh, geez, Lakers, come on. Lakers all of a sudden become worse than the clippers if LeBron leaves town. And by the way, we even haven't discussed, what are they getting from the Mavericks in return?

Tim Hardaway? This poo-poo platter of a bunch of mediocre guys like Josh Green is an okay player. Okay, okay, but Tim Hardaway, Josh Green, four picks, a third team, another player. You are well, Mavs are giving up four picks for a 38-year-old LeBron?

Wow. Oh, boy. Okay. Porzingis didn't work. Brunson didn't work. Fair. This doesn't work. How long before Luke is like, time out? Get me a guy. Yeah. By the way, there's always in the LeBron trios, there's been a third guy who's the fall guy. Right? We know it was Kevin Love. It was Chris Bosch. By the way, LeBron. Kyrie? The guy who orchestrated the deal?

I wonder if it's going to be Luca. Hey, Kyrie bailed on LeBron. LeBron have a history together. Kyrie did bail on him in embarrassing fashion in Cleveland. it would be very spicy. The Mavs would have to be, every game would have to be televised. We would need to see every game. Honestly, that's like what, you know, we say the season's too long.

Yeah. I'm watching all those. Every game. Kyrie LeBron and Luca? No, it would be fantastic. There's a potential for a spectacular explosion on that team. Okay, I got to let you listen to this. So I thought this was interesting.

So Aaron Rogers went on the record recently with The Athletic.com. And, you know, I'm not going to criticize a guy who's willing to put it out. there. So he was talking about the ending in Green Bay with Brian Gudenkoons, who runs the franchise. And he said on his relationship with the Packer GM, which has been testy, he said, did Brian text me more than I texted him? Yeah, but did I ghost him? No. There was back and forths. We had. And so this story you want to go with, right? You're going to stand on this hill of austerity and say that arguably in the conversation of the best player in your franchise history, I couldn't get a hold of him and that's why we had to move on.

Just tell the truth. You wanted to move on. You didn't like the fact that we didn't communicate all the time. Like, listen, I talk to the people that I like. Well, well, well, there it is. Aaron did not like his GM. But I will say this in fairness to Aaron. Belichick and Brady, we discovered 20 years.

Never had dinner. One time. The difference was when they had disagreements, Jimmy Garoppolo who stepped in. Robert Kraft. I've always said there's no reason Brett Farve and Aaron Rogers have almost nothing in common personally.

But their careers mirror each other in Green Bay. They even leave for the same team, the Jets. Why? They have no owner. It's a huge disadvantage. This is where I side with Aaron Rogers. If Elon Musk doesn't have a boss, he's a smart guy, Twitter's now an S show.

It's a mess. He didn't have a boss. What happens when you don't have a boss? You kind of want to do what you want to do. And so I think Aaron Rogers is laying it out there. He didn't like the GM. There's earlier reports. He tried to get rid of him.

He couldn't. But what I do think is funny about this is Brian Gudenkoontz kind of put it out there. We couldn't get a hold of Aaron. Aaron also has talked about this bad self-fews. phone coverage thing, and he's doubled down on that. So Aaron couldn't get along with him. But let's be honest about this whole situation. Nobody going into that darkness retreat thought it was going well.

Like for Aaron to claim going into that darkness retreat, when Aaron said, when I come out, I should be closer to an answer, that's not what a boss wants to hear. Honey, I don't know about our marriage. I'm going to go have a boys weekend in Vegas. When I get back, I should be closer to an answer. That's not the answer. The answer is you get back and have an answer. So Aaron knew he was in trouble, and Green Bay knew they were tired of as you know what.

But I will give it to Aaron. He's just putting it out there. I call the people I like. I don't like my boss. I give him, he is one of the, I will say this about Aaron. Never any filter. They just put it right out there. I didn't like my boss.

I respect that. Artificial turf on football fields causing 32% more non-contact knee injury. American grass seed company, Pennington, ban the turf. There is a movement. It's a Flip the Turf movement. Go to Pennington.com slash flip the turf now. Sign up. Let's get our players on grass and off of turf.

So did you enjoy your vacation, by the way, over in France? Did you enjoy it? Paris was spectacular. We were in the Picasso Museum. Yeah. And this guy walks by and then he doubles back and goes, hey, are you J. Mack? And my wife just starts cracking up.

Yeah. Because, you know, I'm not a big deal. Yeah. You are. I'm not a huge deal. You're an international star. It was just an outstanding time. I highly recommend Paris.

Now, next year I think the Olympics are going to be there or something like that. I wouldn't go then. But it's an awesome city. Just for me, second to New York City, of all the cities I've been to in the world. I loved it. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I kind of want to go there like every couple years now.

The food? Food was great. It's just a walking city. Just stop by, have drinks in the middle of the day. It's just so laid back and chill. It was awesome time. What's it like at night? The City of Lights. What's it like at night? Oh my gosh. Everywhere. You have a view everywhere. It's incredible. The rooftop bars are popping. Are they? Streets are packed. It was just like, geez, this is like, I felt young again. No kids on the trip, obviously.

Oh, yeah. Keep the young ones at home. Yes, indeed. Always a great recommendation for vacations. Says the guy who just traveled with his son. Yeah. Diceland, yeah. Well, when they get older, they're a lot more fun. Yes. All right. Colin right. Colin wrong. Hour to in L.A. next. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are

starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

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