The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 1 - The Ravens need Lamar Jackson

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

Joy Taylor is in for Colin Cowherd   What should we expect from Kevin Durant and the Suns? The Ravens should be doing whatever it takes to keep Lamar Jackson The Niners need to figure out who will be their QB of the future   Guest: Carmen VitaliSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The HARD podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the Hurt at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching Herd. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome to the herd. I'm Joy Taylor, filling in for Colin Cowherd. Today and tomorrow, as Colin and Jason are enjoying a much-needed vacation, after a long football season.

This is when we all kind of scurry off to our corners of the world to enjoy some time off. I'm joined by Alex Curry in studio, which you will be in with me tomorrow as well. It's been a nice week, a nice calm week in the sports world. It's all-star break, so there's not a whole lot going on in the NBA. We are gearing up for not the second half of the season. We call the second half of the season. But there's like 24, 23 regular season games left. 22, 23 games left, depending on who you're playing for.

And of course, we are now in the NFL offseason. So there's all kinds of news for the NFL off season, a lot of quarterback movement, which is an amazing development for the NFL and for us as we embark on the new NFL season. with the trades starting to come up. We will talk to Carmen Vitale in studio. She's a Fox Sports NFC North reporter about some of the action that will be happening around there.

She had a very interesting article on Fox Sports.com about Aaron Rogers and Patrick Mahomes, which I can't wait to talk to her about. And Rick Bueger will be in studio with us to talk about the not second half of the NBA season, but the rest of the NBA season and heading into the postseason. And he will also be with us later on speech.

as I will as well with Emmanuel Ocho, Dave Hellman, Rick Buecker, and Shady McCoy. So you can join us at 4.30 p.m. Eastern. Thanks for hanging out with us today, myself and Alex. And let's get started with Kevin Durant. So pretty massive news in the NBA that Kevin Durant would be joining the Phoenix Suns after, what's called an interesting time in Brooklyn. And the expectations, of course, immediately skyrocket, as they should. KD is on any given night, one of the best players in the NBA.

And the owner, the new owner of the Phoenix Suns, talked a little bit about the expectations that they should have. Matt Ishma said, Ishba said, I don't look at a risk at all. I look at it as a vision and a decision. And you go with your decisions and you run with it. It doesn't mean everything's going to work out or they're going to win multiple championships. And, you know, it was right. You have to play the games.

I don't need to come in and win in the first year. but at the same time there's nothing in my life that I don't want to win at. We're going to try to win at everything we do. And so I don't look at it as a risk at all. Obviously, when Kevin Durant moves, there's a conversation of expectations. And there is a conversation to be had about the risk of bringing in a superstar. Obviously, if you can bring in a superstar like Kevin Durant, you do it. But with that comes expectations. And if you don't reach expectations, there's going to be conversations about the success that you've had there. Now, as the owner of the sons, he's looking for the next 50 years. he's got plenty of time to write the legacy of his time there in Phoenix. But with Kevin Durant, I do find it very interesting, the conversations that we have about him. We often get very carried away with these trades and moves and the expectations of how quickly this should all come together. Kevin Durant is probably the easiest plug-and-play superstar that we have in the NBA. The Phoenix Suns are a well-run organization on the court. They have obviously a lot of talent. They've been there the past few years and been in contention. And the West is wide open.

So any team in the West with a healthy superstar or superstars should have a chance. And as I said, they don't have half a season left. They have around 22 games left. But how quickly will this come together? I often go back to the Miami Heat. Obviously, I spent a lot of time in Miami. And I remember when the big three came together and the expectations spiraled out of control. immediately. But they ended up going to four straight finals and winning two championships. So overall, I deem that as success. What I thought was interesting about Ishbia's quote was that he said they didn't have to win this year. I think that's something that we should consider when we're talking about this Kevin Durant move. Chris Paul and Evan Booker of both missed time this year. Kevin Durant,

by the way, is not back yet. He is coming off of an injury as well. And the conversation will quickly turn to it's a failure if they don't go far in the Western Conference Finals or go to the NBA Finals. I don't think that's a realistic conversation to have about the Phoenix Suns. Now, I will admit, at first I was like, this is championship or bust, and it's Kevin Durant. They're going straight to the finals. It sometimes takes a little time for it to come together, and as I mentioned, he is coming off of an injury. It's hard to manage expectations when it comes to Kevin Durant. And I think the conversation around Kevin Durant often turns to toxic and I've been discussing it the past couple days. It's always bothered me how Kevin Durant's

career has been viewed because we just erase the first nine years of his basketball career. We just ignore the time that he spent with the Sonics and the thunder. And it's very strange to me because it's always that he's a mercenary and everywhere he goes it should be championship expectations. And if he doesn't win, it's a failure. And Brooklyn was a disaster. He left the Golden State Warriors, and he wasn't responsible for the championships there. He walked into a ready-made situation. It's just not accurate. He spent nine seasons with the Supersonics in the Thunder.

They went to Western Conference Finals. They went to finals. He was rookie of the year. He was a league MVP. He did his time. He's allowed to have mobility. It's a very strange notion when it comes to Kevin Durant that he, He doesn't have the right to have control over his career.

He doesn't have the right to have movements. And that when he goes somewhere, immediately he should have a championship or its failure. It's always all on Kevin Durant, but then it's never on Kevin Durant. It's always Kevin Durant's job to win the championship, but when he won the championships, he wasn't responsible for them. I just think we should have a little more perspective on Kevin Durant, his expectations that he should have this year, what he's done throughout his career, what he's done throughout his career, what he did with the Thunder, what he did with the Warriors, what really happened in Brooklyn.

And I like Ishbia's mentality that it doesn't have to happen this year. I'm excited to see Kevin Durant in a situation with talent around him. Again, the Sun's competitive for the past few years and to be in a situation where they can actually build. I don't look at this as a mercenary move. I think Kevin Durant's earned the right to control his career and the mobility of it. And I I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in Phoenix, even if it doesn't have to happen this season. So someone else who might be moving around, I hope not, but is Lamar Jackson. There's going to be a conversation about Lamar Jackson on probably every show for the next six months when we're discussing what's going to happen with him and the Ravens. And the more I talk about Lamar Jackson and his contract situation, the more I'm on Lamar's side.

I don't have sympathy for teams who act funny when it's time to pay the quarterback. They're like confused. Oh my God. I didn't know I had to write a check to the franchise quarterback. How did this happen? Do we budget for this? I don't understand teams that act like they don't know what the market is. I know what the market is for the quarterback.

You should definitely know what the price is for a franchise quarterback. They always act funny. It's new. It's a shock that it's their turn to pay the quarterback. unless it's an organization that's planned for it, and then we find out when the check is signed with Patrick Mahomes. The conversation around the Ravens is, are they a team that can win without a franchise quarterback?

Because they've done it before. I did it with Trent Dilfer, and they did it with Joe Flacco. To me, that was a different time. That was a different era. We have no evidence in the last 10 years, specifically the last Ravens Super Bowl, that you can win without a franchise quarterback. Let's just take a look at the Super Bowl.

winners over the last 10 years. Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Nick Foles, Patrick Mahomes, Matthew Stafford. Now, you might be able to pitch me Peyton Manning was not the catalyst for that, but I'm not going to go as far as to say that Peyton Manning wasn't somewhat responsible for that Super Bowl, that Super Bowl run, and is not a franchise quarterback. The really only outlier that you have here is Nick Foles. And is that what you're going to plan for? You're going to plan to be the outlier. It just doesn't, it doesn't make sense to me. Those Ravens teams were built differently. Even if you have a defense that you can rely on, which, which they do. They had the number three scoring defense this year. When Rochon Swift was added around week nine, they gave 14.7 points

per game, second only to the Niners, who also, by the way, didn't win a championship because they don't have a franchise quarterback. The problem is your offense also has to score. So it's great so that you're holding opposing offenses to a very low number. But then your offense has to score more points than their offense. That's how it works. This is the modern NFL. Do you really feel comfortable going out there scoring 12.5 points per game? How great is your defense going to have to be every day?

With Lamar Jackson, they average 25 points per game without 12.5. He wins 74% of his regular season games. they're the second worst offense in the league without Lamar Jackson. I just don't, I don't get the concept of not keeping Lamar Jackson. Why would I consider you to be contenders without a franchise quarterback in the modern NFL? I understand if you've done it before. I understand the teams are trying to do it now. That's why I brought up the Niners.

The Niners don't have a franchise quarterback. They don't win a Super Bowl. Did they go to the Super Bowl? No. And why? because they didn't have a quarterback. I understand the quarterbacks were injured, but guess who did that to them?

The opposing defense. I just, I can't wrap my mind around the Ravens being a contender, a true contender without Lamar Jackson. And I understand that the market is outrageous because of Deshawn Watson, but that's not Lamar Jackson's responsibility. And if he's hellbent on matching that or getting an entirely guaranteed contract, perhaps it's a different conversation,

But I have to imagine that he wants a long-term deal with a lot of guaranteed money that you can structure in a way that keeps him in the building and keeps you as actual championship contenders. To me, if you don't have a franchise quarterback, I don't consider you to be a contender. And maybe that's good enough for the Ravens. Maybe that's good enough for some organizations to just be in the playoffs and just be in contention for the division. And that's enough.

But if you want to win a Super Bowl, you've got to have Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Matthew Stafford, Russell Wilson, Peyton Manning, or you can bet on Nick Foles. Which, look, worked out for the Eagles. But I don't know that I want to try to be the outlier. I want to try to be the rule, particularly if I want to build an organization that's going to be there year after year

and contention for the Super Bowl. So I say, try and figure it out with Lamar Jackson. You're going to need to score more than 12.5 points per game to win in today's NFL. Joy Taylor in for Colin Coward. I almost said Tom Brady. He would have really liked that. We got another year until he's like technically a co-worker.

Well, you know, Colin is the Tom Brady of us one. Ooh, there you go. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd on the herd today alongside Alex Curry. We'll talk to Carmen Vitale, Fox Sports NFL writer coming up in the show as well as Rick Buecker. And we will also discuss if the bears should. trade Justin Fields. Alex will talk about that next on the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports

Radio, FS1 and the IHeard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to The Herd, Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd, who will be back next week. What's up, Alex Curry? Alex Curry joining me for Jason McIntyre. well. We'll be in today and tomorrow. We're having a time. I feel like this is like the most time I get to hang out with you in the last couple of months because it's been so crazy. We've been some busy ladies the past the past couple weeks. Super Bowl was was amazing and very busy in Phoenix and a lot going on that week because you were at the waste management open as well. I was. I did a lot

of things. Super Bowl things, Super Bowl, I'll tell you, has become really, I was talking about it last night. It's really become one of the biggest events in just American culture. There's, there's concerts associated with the Super Bowl now. Obviously, major artists out there too. Yeah, corporate events. Pop up clubs everywhere. Meeting suites. Like there's just, there's endless things going on at the Super Bowl now. The whole world is there. And it's the whole week. It's like five events during the day. you try to make it to three different events at night. And then you're like, oh, yeah, you've got to work the next morning.

So it's a whole, it's a whole fun, wild whirlwind of a week. You know, it'd be really cool if they would invent those flying cars. So we can get around more easily. Yeah, I mean, it's a- Or teleport. Yes. Would you teleport? I will 100% would teleport.

Oh, hell yeah. People think I'm crazy. I'm like, listen, the quicker and easier I can get there, I'm down. We will get to Alex Curry with the news in just a few moments. and we'll have Carmen Vitale, NFC, Northwriter for Fox Sports.com in studio with us. Very excited to talk to her. So I teased a little earlier about what's going on with the Niners. I know Niners fans don't think I like them very much.

That is not true. I think the Niners are a great organization. And I love when the Niners are competitive. I think the NFL is better when teams like the Niners are competitive. They're always competitive, though, and they always lack a quarterback. That is the theme with the Niners. Even when they had a quarterback in Jimmy Garoppolo, they weren't sure about him. moved on to Trey Lance.

And Albert Breer talked about this particular year and how much it matters for Trey Lance. Here's Albert Breer. I think really, as much as anything else, this is a critical year for Trey because they've got to make a decision on a 50-year option after this year.

And what history tells us is if you get past that point, you pass year three and the 50-year option hasn't been picked up, and extension hasn't been done. Generally, those guys are on their last legs with the teams of their way. So, yeah, I mean, I think this is a critical year because of where he is in his contract.

You know, and I think this is a critical year in that if he doesn't deliver, if product doesn't deliver, then they have to look at other options outside, the organization because of how good their roster is. They never have a quarterback. I bang the drum about this all the time. I was just talking about the Ravens. It's really great design to have an awesome roster.

I think it's very important to have an awesome roster. Look at what happened in the Super Bowl. Almost everyone felt that the Philadelphia Eagles had the better roster. had the better team after the quarterback. And by the way, Jalen Hertz was all pro. They lost because of what? Patrick Mahomes.

It's the quarterback. It's always the quarterback. All season long, everyone was telling me about the San Francisco 49ers. And I love the Niners, but they don't have a quarterback. And I don't want to hear about how they got knocked out in the playoffs. They got knocked out. It's not like they missed the flights. They were removed from the game by the other teams.

defense. You need to have a healthy quarterback. It's just what it is. I'm right. I'm right about this. You have to have a franchise quarterback and they've got to be healthy. It's just the way it goes. If you want to win a Super Bowl, which is what the San Francisco 49ers are attempting to do, that's what has to happen. And life comes at you fast because for a brief shining moment, we thought that they were going to get away with the Trey Lance, possibly not being the guy thing. And then Brock Purdy gets injured and he still hasn't had surgery. Tom Pelliserro of NFL media said that Pardy had a pre-op visit, and because of inflammation, they can't have a surgery right now. He has to have surgery on his elbow, and that's getting pushed back, and that delays his return.

So as great as he played, he might not be available to start the season. As Albert Rear just mentioned, this is a very critical time for Trey Lance, and Jimmy Garoppolo is probably not going to be there next year. So once again, you're in the exact same situation that you were at the beginning of this season. you just have less backups available to you. The Niners have an injury problem as well. They have the most games missed to injury and illness since 2017 in the league. 1,485. They have a lot of things that have to go their way.

They're a constantly injured team. That's the number. I didn't make that up. I'm not imagining that they are constantly injured. They are an always injured team. They don't have a franchise quarterback. And despite how great the roster is and how great the coaching is every single year, they fall short, and in my opinion, it's because they have not solved the quarterback position.

We constantly talk about the Niners. They're the team that it's not a quarterback-driven team. All the teams are quarterback-driven teams. All of them, every team, all the teams that you can name in the NFL are quarterback-driven teams. All of it. Stop saying that. Please. Please stop saying it.

It's just factually inaccurate. If you are talking about being a Super Bowl contender, you've got to have a quarterback. You have to have one. If you want to make the playoffs, if you want to win a playoff game, if you want to be competitive and cute, that's fine. You don't need a quarterback. But you've got to have a franchise quarterback who is healthy and available if you want to win a Super Bowl. I feel like I'm saying something that's very obvious, but I'm constantly getting pushback on this when it comes to the Niners, and it's just not true. And now you're in a situation with Trey Lance, as Albert

Beer mentioned, that you really have to find out if he's the guy and you've got to find out immediately. And while we moved off of the conversation of whether this was a huge mistake that set the team back because of all the picks that they used on him, because of how Brock Party he was playing, now Brock Purdy is injured, and he's not going to be out there for a while. He hasn't even had surgery yet to begin the rehab to get back out there. It's just, it's concerning, and it's why when we talk about these Super Bowl windows with teams with great rosters and great situations, they never last as long as you think they do for any number of reasons.

It's just, I'm going to be watching this team very closely this offseason. I think Trey Lance can do it. but we haven't seen or heard anything that positive about the situation to be sure about it. We'll talk to Carmen Vitale of Fox Sports.com in a few moments, but let's get to Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, boy, let's stay on this quarterback topic because it is the most important position on every single team.

Okay, the Panthers are entering their first season under new head coach, Frank Reich. and one glaring hole on the roster is at the quarterback position. And you would think that Derek Carr would be a great fit with an already established defense. But Reich isn't ready to commit to bring Carr in for a visit just yet. And here's what he had to say. Derek Carr is available. Will you guys bring him in on a visit? You know, interesting question.

You know, we're really literally sitting down with the guys today. First staff meeting will be tomorrow. But I've kind of met with guys individually saying, okay, here's what we're doing. First step one, that's a value. our roster. You know, so we're really just starting that process. So step two, evaluate the free agents. You know, everybody got their list, okay? Step three. Now, you know, going to the college guys. So that process has literally begun, so really not ready to address the specifics of that because we're really just beginning. I know he's a new coach and he's saying

the things that he's supposed to say. We're looking at the roster. We're figuring everything out. but you desperately need a quarterback right now. And as a new coach and as a former quarterback, you could make an immediate impact with this team. And why wouldn't you bring in Derek Carr? A, we already know that he's meeting with a bunch of other teams. So what if he falls in love with one of the other teams before you get to meet with him?

We did hear his brother say it's going to be a long process and he is going to do his due diligence as he should. But it just makes sense. He brings leadership. he commands a locker room. We obviously know he can bring a team together in the midst of chaos, as we saw him with six different head coaches in nine seasons. He still kind of kept it together.

But also, it would be a very desirable division for him in the NFC South. You could immediately be atop the division. You have a lot going for you. Why not shoot your shot right away and get in the mix? Yeah, I don't. I don't love it. I like Frank Mike a lot, and I didn't like that he was fired, and I think he's going to do a nice job there.

But as I just ranted and raved, you got to have a quarterback. There's not that many out there. And you also know you're going to get this question. You know, you're going to have to talk about Derek Carr. He's going to be the conversation for any team. He's one of the top guys on the market right now. Right. And so there's more teams that need quarterbacks than there are quarterbacks available.

The market is slim. So he's being honest. Sometimes it's best to just, sometimes it's best to lie to us. We'll talk about this a little bit later. I'm a massive Derek Carr fan. Same. I think he's going to,

I think he's going to bounce back in a big way. I don't trust the Raiders at all. And I don't think that what happened this year is solely on him, even though he didn't have a great year. No. He didn't have as bad of the year as you think he did. He didn't. Well, I'm teasing this hard because it's true.

He really didn't. If you start looking at the comps around the league for, how awful and atrocious his season is being labeled as. Keep in mind, they also had a terrible defense that he had to overcome. But, yeah, I mean, look, I would want him if I was any of these teams that need a quarterback. And, you know, we've known that he's going to come available for a little while. So it's, it's a bit odd that they wouldn't be, you don't have to reveal if you've talked to him. No, we're exploring all options.

Yes. We're keeping our options open. We need a quarterback. need a quarterback. Okay. Well, let's stick with quarterbacks because rumors have been swirling this offseason of a potential Justin Fields trade with the Bears holding the first overall pick in this year's NFL draft, but RG3 believes it would be a mistake to trade their young quarterback saying

the Bears shouldn't trade Justin Fields to draft Bryce Young. Not because Bryce isn't worth it. He's definitely that dude. But because they need draft picks from trading the number one pick to add a much needed talent to the roster and protection so Fields isn't running for his life. The Bears have a lot of holes to fill here, okay? One, you have the worst defensive line in the league. Two, the worst scoring defense in the league.

Three, Justin Fields was the most sat quarterback in the league. And you only had one receiver, your tight end, record over 500 receiving yards last season. So why not give the man some weapons and some pretext? and some protection to see what he can do before you decide to just swap him out and you're going to have the exact same issue with a younger quarterback running for his life

without protection and weapons. Yeah, I agree. I would trade back from that spot and get a hall of picks. As we just mentioned, there's a lot of teams that need quarterbacks. Get a hall of picks, build up the team around him, and, you know, improve the roster. It's not just the quarterback that you need help with.

I don't think that Justin Fields has done anything to guarantee that they don't move off of him. And keep in mind, this is a new GM. This is a new coach. If they are going to go down, they're going to want to go down with their guys. But I also think this is the type of stuff that can set organizations back. And the Bears haven't had a franchise quarterback in a very, very long time. If ever, if you really want to, you know, be honest about it. So it's, I would move back.

Yeah. I would move back. I would get more picks. I would build up around him and not that it's about giving him another opportunity or whatever. As I said, people are going to protect their own interests first. But I think Justin Fields has shown enough

and he is certainly able to use his legs. So if you give him some protection, we've seen what he can do in college, he can throw the ball. I feel like moving back in the draft from that position, keeping Justin Fields and building around him is the way to go. Because, as we just said, another young quarterback is going to deal with this same roster. And it's going to be even worse without the NFL experience.

You would have to be someone who could transcend this roster, these skill positions, this defensive situation in order to be successful if you're going to draft someone in that position. So if that's how you feel, then go for it. And, you know, we'll sit back and be wrong. I feel like this would be a difficult situation for any young quarterback to overcome. So you need to build up the roster, particularly the offensive line. And again, I understand it's not that simple to just go build an offensive line and just get skill positions. But if you know you're in a situation to take a rookie quarterback, your priority outside of that should be offensive line skill positions.

If you're building your organization, you have some time because you've taken a rookie quarterback, do the things that help him develop and do the things that can help him protect him and keep him upright. Yes, exactly. Protection. weapons make it easier and make it better for them. Yes. All right. Switching gears. The Cowboys will have to make some decisions regarding their roster this offseason.

And one of the big ones is what to do with Ezekiel Elliott. Zeke is scheduled to make $10.9 million this upcoming season, but the biggest concern comes from Bob Sturm, who reports, scouts believe Elliot has little left in his leg and the word is out. I think we've kind of seen this over the last. couple of seasons. I mean, he ran for 1,631 yards as a rookie, and then 1,434 yards in his third season in 2018, and he posted a career worse 3.8 yards per carry during the 2022 season. So, yeah, the word has been out. We've all seen it. We've all been watching the decline of Ezekiel Elliott. And at what point do you just cut your losses and admit that he might not be your guy anymore. You have a young guy in Tony Pollard who's also coming back from injury,

but you have options. The only thing for Zique, I don't know if there's going to be much of a market for him if he's not with the Cowboys. No, there really, there really is not going to be a market, not above, you know, the minimum around the league. So it really makes sense for both parties, I think, for him to stay at a reasonable number. You do have Tony Pollard, who's done a great job for them. You have a very expensive backfield at this point. So figure it out with the Zecchio Elliott. He's not going to get a better deal on the market anywhere else. I mean, it's unfortunate because Zeeke was such a dynamic player, but this is what happens when you, you know, you wear down a running back. Like there's a hard position. It's a hard position. You take a lot of hits. It's a lot

of carries. And Zeeke has had to carry a lot, no pun intended, for the Dallas Cowboys. So it's not surprising. And we've seen this decline for a while now. It's, it's more about an emotional thing with the Dallas Cowboys, as it always comes down to because that's how Dallas Cowboys do business, which is a whole other conversation in itself. It's, you know, I think, I think Zeke still has some value, particularly to the Cowboys in, you know, short-yarded situations, goal-line situations, things like that, just have to structure it in a way that doesn't, you know,

handicap the team financially. And they have a lot of moves that they need to make to figure that out, especially with Dak Prescott's contract as well. So it's, it'll come down to what Jerry wants, as it always does. And hopefully he makes the right decision football-wise. It's one of his guys. He's emotionally connected to Zeke. He's one of his guys.

But 3.8 yards per carry is not getting it done. And you're going to have to find a solution that works both financially and on the field when it comes to that position because that's part of how that offense works. That's how it's successful as having a strong running game. That's Alex Curry with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. Joy Taylor, in for Colin Cowherd. When we come back, we'll talk to Carmen. Vatali, writer for foxports.com, Joy Taylor and for Colin and Alex Curry. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Paulie Fusco here with Tony Fuscoe. Yo, of course you know us as the host of the number one rated Pauly and Tony Fuscoe show. World renown. We all know you're sick and tired of these stupid sports shows where the host say stupid things like Tom Brady's the goat. Or LeBron James is good at basketball,

which he is clearly not. See, we give you smart takes. Yeah. And we also bring on so-called famous guests from across the sports world and show them why we know much more than they do. You're off the show! Are you serious?

Listen to the Bali and Tony Fusco show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to The Herd. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd, Alex in for Jason McIntyre. They are enjoying some vacation. They'll be back next week. week. We're very excited to be joined by Carmen Vitalee Fox Sports, NFC North Reporter, and was previously a staff writer for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. You can follow her on social media at Carmi V. Thank you for joining us, Carmen. I am so excited to be here. This is so much fun. We love having you here. I love your stuff. And I got to quote one of your pieces, which we'll talk about in just a moment the other day on speak, which I really loved. So that's a little tease. for just a few minutes. But we were just talking about Justin Fields.

And I find the Justin Fields conversation very interesting because I feel I am a little more pro Justin Fields than most people. I think he has a lot of potential. I think he was a great college player. And he wasn't just a runner in college. He's been in my opinion forced to be just a runner in the NFL. But now the Bears have the number one overall pick. And there are some quarterbacks available.

What do they do? with the number one overall pick. I mean, the right answer is trading out. That has to be the right answer at this point. Very rarely do you have the number one overall pick and you don't need a quarterback. And I'm also very pro-justin-field. The reason he ran for over 1,000 yards this year is because he had to. He had absolutely no protection.

He had no offensive line. And if you don't trade out, you're not going to get an offensive line for him. So, I mean, even if you decide that you're in love with Bryce Young, I mean, what, he's like 510, 1905 on a good day when he's soaking wet? You need an offensive line to protect him. But if you take that and you don't get more capital, it's going to be very hard to build a protection bubble around him. So I think, A, Fields is started in the system,

and the system is starting to be tailored towards him. And he's the future. The player that he is is the future of the league in general. These dual threat quarterbacks, the ones that can really hurt you with your legs, those are being taken into account when it comes to the run scheme now. And you know how hard it is for defenses to have to account for a quarterback that can run on top of backs that running backs in the backfield? And the bears have a couple good ones if they hang on to David Montgomery.

So I think the answer is to trade out with you mentioned all the holes that the bears have to fill. You don't really have a choice. And I want to look at this kind of as a two-year process. I don't want Bears fans to think, oh, you know, we have all this capital now. We can turn this team around in one year. That's not going to happen. But if you think of this as more of a two-year process, now you're going to trade back. could potentially get more capital for 2024,

along with the lines of another first round pick. So it makes way too much sense. I think most of this is a smokescreen by Ryan Poles. I think he's very, I mean, this is, it may be, you know, his first GM job, but he came from Kansas City. This is nothing new to him. He's manipulating that rumor mill as much as possible, because if you think that you,

you're already going to get a haul for the number one overall pick, right? If now teams think that they have to persuade the bears not to take Bryce Young or whatever quarterback that they're in love with, I could drive the price up even more. Well, yeah, it doesn't really benefit them to say right now that we're going to stick with Justin Fields. Now, that's sort of where I usually get caught up because I do think a young quarterback needs confidence

and needs to know the team is behind him. And I don't know that Justin Fields has done anything on the field to guarantee that he not be in this conversation. Right. So that's, I'm able to apply reason to it. Because normally I would say, okay, I guess. it, but you're also crushing the confidence of your young quarterback. But in this situation, I do think Justin Fields has a little bit more developing to do before he can, you know,

demand that they not have this conversation and play the smokescreen game. But most overall, I'm hoping that I, that you're right, which is why I would agree with you. Like, I'm so, like, let's speak this into existence because it just makes more sense for them to trade out of that spot when you have someone like Justin Fields. Okay, so you have an amazing article on Fox Sports.com. Go look it up. Carmen Vitale is joining us. And you talked about, Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rogers. And I mean, I have lots of thoughts about Aaron Rogers as all of us do. Thanks to Aaron Rogers inviting us into his life every week.

This is the monster of his own making. Yes, absolutely, his responsibility. I didn't ask for this. I didn't ask for the foot. I didn't ask for all this information. I love it. I love the crazy. I love the chaos.

I love having something to talk about and laugh about. And it's so weird. We love the content. It's so weird. I just didn't ask for it. No. I didn't ask for it. But you have a very interesting.

perspective on how the season went for Patrick Mahomes and how we praise and look at Patrick Mahomes and what happened with Aaron Rogers. So obviously you have to go read it, but talk a little bit about where you were going with that. Well, yeah, I mean, I think actually it kind of caused quite a stir. Not not thanks to the fact that you retweeted it twice. So thank you very much. But it was one of those things where they started in very similar spots. They were dealt very similar cards at beginning the season. I know Patrick Mahomes still had Travis Kelsey. But when you think about the fact that Devante Adams was responsible for the biggest production share of any one player to his team. You lost that, but you didn't change your scheme at all. And the thing is, if Patrick

Mahomes had Travis Kelsey, Aaron Rogers had a two-headed monster in the backfield with Aaron Jones and A.J. Dillon. And they didn't adapt. They didn't evolve their scheme at all. They didn't become, I think we all thought they were going to be a run first team. And they had seven first round picks to start the season on that defense. That defense severely underperformed, too. So it's not necessarily all in Aaron Rogers. But A, the offense didn't evolve. B, Aaron couldn't be bothered to work with some of these younger guys that he was now going to have to work with. And Patrick Mahomes did. And in the Super Bowl, look at the guys that caught touchdown passes for him. They're guys that are younger players. I don't think we're thinking that, you know, Cadarius Tony is a

world beater. I mean, he was a first round pick, but he's had a career research. at this point. And then Skymore, a rookie. So it can be done, but it's because Mahomes was like, he took the first phase of OTAs and he made it all his own. He went down to Texas with these guys. He was working out with them, did all that. Aaron Rogers was nowhere to be found at OTAs. And when you have new guys coming in, especially young ones, you have to be able to get comfortable with them, especially in a system like Rogers, who, I mean, the amount of, some of the players said that he probably changed maybe a third of the plays this year, like on the offense. and if you don't know his tendencies, his ticks,

exactly where he wants you to be, the cadences he has, if you're not comfortable with that yet, and he's not comfortable with you, it's not going to work, and that's what we saw for most of the season. I love it so much. I love it because it's such a, it just got washed over.

Like, Devante leaves, and they're like, yeah, we're going to be fine. We're going to do the same thing. How are you going to be fine? Fine how? What is fine? It's Devonte Adams. Do you know how much volume he gets?

you're not replacing the volume and then Aaron Rogers is not putting in the time to develop these young wide receivers. And then it was their fault. Like actually, no, it is Aaron Rogers fault. If we're going to put Aaron Rogers on that pedestal that we put a Patrick Mahomes on, it can be done, which is the most important line of what you just said. It can be done. It can be done at the highest level in the biggest game of the season in the Super Bowl. You said something on Speak that I loved. And it was that the, God, now I'm cold to.

totally blank on what it was. It was the fact that Aaron Rogers, that first pass of the season to Christian Watson, 87-yard bomb, Christian Watson, you know, drops it. And everybody else in the desk was like, well, that was Christian Watson's fault. No, it wasn't. He's not used to Aaron Rogers. Aaron Rogers isn't used to him. He doesn't know exactly where to place that ball or Christian Watson doesn't know exactly where to be. I mean, yes, it went through his arms. But like, if you have reps with that, that's not happening. Why would it be Christian Watson's fault? It's the Hall of Famer's fault. Yes. It's the back-to-back league MVP's fault. It's not his fault. Like, is it literally his fault? He dropped the ball? Yes. But the actions, the prep, what favors the prepared. That's why you practice. That's what practice is

for. We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. Yes. And in this situation, it matters. All right. So let's talk a little bit about Lamar Jackson. That's the other major story this offseason. I think the Ravens are crazy. I, I, I don't have any sympathy for organizations who get shocked when it's time to pay. This is like getting your mortgage payment comes to your house. What do you mean? I'm paying his house. Yeah, that's what things cost money, like franchise quarterbacks.

Now, obviously, I understand the Browns are terrible at business. They blew the market up for Deshawn Watson. But that's not Lamar Jackson's fault. I do, however, think they can come to a reasonable, however expensive, check for Lamar Jackson that would keep him there. And I don't think that they should even be mentioned in the comment. conversation of contenders if he's not there. Oh, yeah.

The thing about all of this is, why weren't you already prepared, we're talking about locked favors the prepared. Yeah. Why weren't you already prepared for this day? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why they never, I don't know. I never know.

They're always like, oh, look, what? We have to pay our franchise quarterback, all of this money, our franchise, our former MVP franchise quarterback. I mean, if there's any doubt that Lamar Jackson, I mean, he's the one that really started the ball rolling on this really dual. threat quarterback that can hurt you with his legs that runs really well, all that other stuff. He's the one that really got that ball rolling in the modern era right now. And the fact that you've tailored the entire system for him, you tailored your offense.

How in the world are you going to get rid of this guy? But now, he doesn't seem so happy. He saw his Instagram post. He was like, he seems to be very, feeling very undervalued. But this is the other thing, too. He's not working with an agent. And agents, I mean, I want you to get all your money. I want you to get all the money.

I don't want you to have to give 10%. But I mean, we all kind of have to do that in our perspective professions, and that's just kind of how it is. But at the same time, that agent is so valuable in, like, setting your expectations correctly and being the go between the team and you, like, you don't want to be in that room when people are trying to assign a dollar value to you. So, of course, Lamar doesn't feel very valued. And of course, the Ravens don't want to give him a Deshaun Watson-type deal,

because no one wants to. Well, he's working with his mother as his mother is working as his agent. So he's not directly negotiated. It is going through her. He's just not using one of the bigger agencies. I get the guaranteed money issue. I don't think that any team is going to give any team is not just the Ravens. Right.

No, for sure. Particularly the one team where the owner came out and said, I don't like that deal. I don't think any organization is going to do that. I think the owners were, I don't think we know the owners were not happy. with that deal. They weren't happy with the Brown's ownership for doing that. And I do believe that they all got together and we're like, yeah, nobody else do this. This is not how we're going to do business. And also, I don't think from a business perspective, if I can remove the, you know, humans working in this space, I don't think we're a business perspective. It makes sense. You do

reach a point of diminished return with all contracts. That's why you negotiate. At one point, this is too much money for one person. And this is as much as I want to be paid. And then that's when you sign the contract. Like, that's how this works. I think if you put that much guaranteed money into one player and they don't perform or they get injured, which is a 100% chance in this league at some point, then you are in an impossible situation, which is why I get it. But I also understand from Lamar Jackson's perspective, you got to pay me more money than everybody else got than who's not named to Sean Watson. And that's completely fair. And I don't think they're contenders without him. Carmen, thank you so much for jumping on with us.

We've got to have you on again. This was wonderful. This was great. Make sure you go and read her article and she has another article coming out tomorrow. Should I tease what it is? I mean, it has to do with what we talked about today. So, you know.

Justin Fields, draft stuff. Go check it out. Fox Sports.com. Carmen Vitale. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Care Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere,

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