The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 1 - What is Belichick without Brady?

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

It seems like the Patriots are going out of their way to not help QB Mac Jones.  Thoughts on Chiefs TE Travis Kelces' comments on taking less pay.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Thanks for making us part of your day. Loaded today, Lane Johnson, Philadelphia Eagles, one of the great right tackles of all time. We'll be joining us. Jay Mack and I are going out tonight, knocking them down at an undisclosed location. So yesterday I tried to be glass, half full column with a Patriots. Then they signed Devante Parker, who's had one good year in nine seasons to a huge contract, and I shake my head. That's two bad wide receiver deals on the books. Two guys that can't separate.

And a fortune. It's unbelievable. But I was thinking about this to start. Listen, it's kind of the American way. Like we build people up and tear them down, but we worship in this country. We worship music stars, comedy stars, sports stars, and coaches. And, you know, I understand it. Nick Sabin, Mike Shishowski, for like four decades can dominate because you have an

endless supply of talent. And in college, Saban and Coach K or GM coach owner. I mean, they run the whole show. But in pro sports, everybody has a timeline. Greg Poffovich loses Duncan. He's only so good, right? And there's a lot of worship for Bill Belichick. But then we got new information.

Brady left and they're not very good. And I mean, do people realize, I saw a story this morning from Tom Curran saying, this is a really pivotal year for Bill Belichick. And maybe we should all just take a step back and go, what really is he without Tom Brady? He doesn't get along with his quarterback. He just made a defensive coordinator, a silly move that's toned deaf to offense. is he without Tom Brady?

And it's really funny. I don't think most people really talk about it. So in Cleveland, he was 36 and 44, ran through quarterbacks as a head coach. 36 and 44. Before Brady in New England, they were in big trouble. He and Eric Mangini before the kickoff were talking to Herm Edwards. They were talking about in New England putting their homes for sale if they didn't win that year. He was 5 and 11.

since Brady left, he's a 500 coach. Now, we went 11 and 5, Brady got hurt Matt Castle stepped in, but it should be duly noted they were undefeated the year before with Brady and a stacked roster. Castle won 11 and 5. They still couldn't make the playoffs with arguably the best roster and the best team, unquestionably in the sport, couldn't make the playoffs. Belichick has one career playoff win without Brady. 10 total seasons.

Seven of them, losing seasons. I mean, that's it, right? He's not a successful NFL head coach without Brady. Ten seasons, seven losing seasons. By the way, last year's draft where they needed speed, he drafted two kickers and three guards, first three picks defensive players. Totally toned off the offense. This is not the case with all coaches.

Andy Reid without Mahomes, 19 seasons, 14 winning seasons, and 13 playoffs. Andy Reid is one with multiple quarterbacks in multiple cities, multiple teams, multiple cultures, multiple assistance. Belichick's career is absolutely, inarguably tied to one player, Brady. otherwise 10 years, one playoff win, seven losing seasons. I mean, you had to give Pete Carroll credit last year. Got to the playoffs with Gino Smith. Got to a couple of Super Bowls with Russell Wilson. Dominant college coach with multiple quarterbacks.

Belichick's career is tied to one player. Brady's career isn't tied to Belichick anymore. he left to a wobbly, wanky franchise and won a championship first year. In a COVID year when they could have no preseason. So Mahomes has been great for Andy Reid. Nobody would dispute that. But 14 of 19 years, Annie Reid made the conference championship four straight years in the NFC.

I wouldn't know Mahomes. So this idea of worship, we have new information. Bill's never really won without, Tom Brady. Didn't win in Cleveland with all the quarterbacks. Didn't win pre-Braddy. Didn't win post-Braddy. And that's why it's so bizarre to me that instead of empowering the quarterback Mack Jones,

it's almost like he's suppressing him. Yesterday they resigned Devante Parker one good year in the league, last in the league and separating. Is it an ego thing? I don't know. I'm not doubting Belichick's brilliance on special teams and defense. I'm not doubting his understanding of football. But you can't deny what I'm saying.

It's not an opinion. It's just numbers. It's never one without Brady. And I'm not talking winning big. I'm just talking winning 10 years, 7 losing seasons. So why is he suppressing Mack Jones? From that I moved to this topic. Travis Kelsey yesterday, Jay Mack and I got into this discussion.

So Travis Kelsey is a great tight end for Kansas City. And he said, you know, he goes, you know, sometimes it makes you think you're being taken advantage of because my agents are always telling me. My managers and agents love to tell me how underpaid I am. And when I see Tyreek go and get 30 large in the back of my head, I was like, man, that's two, three times what I'm making. The free market looks fun until you go somewhere you don't win. I love winning. I love the situation we're in. So he gets it.

By the way, ask Tyreek Hill what it was like to catch passes from three different quarterbacks or watches personal life, Ravelling. Kansas City was good for Tyreek Hill. They went without him. But Travis Kelsey's agents care about making money. What you can't buy is legacy and happiness and winning. So the average team tight-end salary, meaning what a team pays all their tight ends, they carry four, all combined, 11.9 million. Travis Kelsey makes 14.3 million per year. In fact, the average NFL tied in makes $2 million a year. Travis Kelsey makes over seven times that. And due to Andy Reed and Mahomes, there's a reason Travis Kelsey hosted Saturday Night Live once. He wouldn't if Kirk Cousins was his quarterback. And there's a reason he's playing

on a televised golf match the night on TV. He wouldn't if Dak was his quarterback. Travis Kelsey makes over $5 to $10 to $15 million a year in endorsements. Nike, T-Mobile, Old Spice, Tied, Wall. Walgreens, McDonald's, Sleep Number, Dick Sporting Goods, Papa Johns. You're not getting those with 99% of the quarterbacks in this league. Bro? Maybe Mahomes, absolutely. And that's the thing.

Derek Jeter always understood the value of the Yankees. He would not have been able to buy the Marlins or a piece of them if he was a pirate, a royal, or a mariner. Kobe Bryant, to his credit, threatened ones, but he always understood the value of the Lakers brand and Jerry West and Jerry Buss and Phil Jackson's coaching. You could go get a Gasol, a shack, right? That's who you get to play with when you're a Laker. Jeter got it, Kobe got it, and Travis Kelsey gets it.

And it's okay to think two things simultaneously, that Travis Kelsey is great and he greatly benefits from his environment. He is not the same player. And I love him. Take out Reading Mahomes. Maybe the Hunt family, Brett Veach. They're very lucky. A, A, A, A, A, A.

In fact, A plus, A plus, A plus, A plus. Owner, GM, coach, quarterback. So, I mean, I love Don Hanley when he went solo. But he was better with Eagles. I mean, Don Henley had a number one hit. But look at the size of the venues he played when he was with the Eagles. compared to Don Henley solo. He came back, realized there is great value in being part of a collective, brilliant people around me.

So agents have one concern. Money. That's how they get paid. Kelsey Jeter Kobe always understood. You can't buy happiness. You can't buy wins. Ask the New York Mets. You can't buy legacy.

Travis Kelsey is now in the conversation of greatest place. player in the history of the league at his position. I'm not sure agents really care about that. Travis Kelsey, thankfully, smartly does. 14.3 million for a tight end. That is a lot of lettuce. I think that's the second lowest paid unit outside of safety in the league. It's like tight end safety guards.

They don't make money. Average tight end salary in the league is $2 million. Travis makes $14.3 salary. I would guess he's at $25 million a year with all his endorsements. That's good living. All right, Jay Mack, we're going out tonight. A lot of covert information will be shared. Hold on, can we back up to Don Henley for a moment?

I think that's the first Don Henley reference in the history of your show. I was a huge Eagles fan. Okay, so. I loved him. The Boys of Summer, was that Don Henley by himself? Yes, very good. That's an amazing song. That comes on the radio.

I'm like transported back to like being in the back of my mom's like. You want me to give you 27 Eagles hits? No, I don't. What about the end of the innocence? That's another great Don Henley song. Terrific. Yeah, I don't know many Eagles. I didn't say he was a bum.

Travis Kelsey would be very good with Kirk Cousins. He would be very good with Gino Smith. I'm not denying that. He's the greatest tight end ever with Andy Reed's designs and Mahalms' talent. Okay, should he say to the chiefs and their billionaire owner, hey, guys, I see other tight ends paid higher than me. Can I get a little bit of a bump up and you guys figure out what to do? linebacker and the offensive line.

Can you just figure that out so I get a big pay bump? I don't want to leave. I want to be with you guys. But I need more cheddar. Can he say that? Is that within his right to say that to a billionaire owner? Well, you have a right to say it. I have a right to say a lot of things to the Murdoch family.

You have a right to do a lot of things. But in order for Mahomes to have time to throw and not be injured, Joe Tuny's expensive. And Chris Jones is expensive. I mean, you have to pay for other players. I mean, they're doing an amazing job in Kansas City. The defense last year had nine rookies play. They gave up a top corner. They gave up D. Ford.

They have moved. The only two players, they're all in. Three. There's three. And they're right. Mahalms, Kelsey, Chris Jones. Everybody else, it's commentary. Opinion, day to day.

They have figured out, star quarterback, be at least good at left tackle, star front defender, great weapon. So I was cool, and I think you were, with Brady taking less in New England to help, because you keep that machine moving. He had a wife who was net worth of 250 mil, 500 mil, whatever it was. I don't think Travis Scott, I don't even know if Kelsey's married if his wife is like, well, but here's the other thing. Net worth of eight, nine figures.

During Brady's run, here's what Kelsey has that Brady didn't. Social. There was no third bar stool leg. So NBA players now always made money in the 60s, 70s playing. And then in the 80s, 90s, playing in shoes and apparel. And now LeBron, they add a third leg, Instagram, social media accounts. So there's a third leg to the bar stool now. So it's another revenue stream. Do you have to consider that? That is controlled by winning. True. Like winning men. You don't get the endorsements. Basketball players get shoes when or not.

Dame's going to get shoes, right? Your small electric players. But in the NFL, your endorsements are overwhelmingly tied to winning because the game doesn't have as much ad-libbing and freedom. You're part of a system. It's choreographed offensively, right? So Gronk's personality got him some money. But if Gronk had that personality in Jacksonville, he didn't get any endorsements. The only pushback about Kelsey is all that stuff you said, social media, podcast, all those other revenue streams, he's got to work for those. You've got to like do stuff. If he's just getting a pay bump with the chiefs, you know, from 14 to 18 mil, come on. Get, show the man a couple more million dollars for all that he's brought. By the way,

is Mahomes winning all those Super Bowls with Reed? If Travis Kelsey's not there and they've got, you know, Joe, Joe tight end there filling in, just a run of the mill guy? I've argued they would all be successful without each other. They're legends with each other. There's a big difference. Yeah. I would have a nice career. But to deny Jesus. Geter's involvement with the Yankees takes him to a new level. As great as Jeter is, when I think of Jeter, I think of four or five plays. They're all playoff moments against the A's, against the Red Sox, jumping into the stands. I don't think about Tuesday against the Blue Jays.

So the moments that make Jeter iconic are playoff moments. You're not getting there with the pirates. Same with Kobe. The great moments, Michael Jordan's greatest moments are switching hands against, I think, the Blazers, dunking over Ewing, their playoff moments. So in the NBA, and increasingly in pro football, as they've extended the regular season, well, you really make your money is January and February. That's when the endorsers have the new annual budget for the year, right?

January and February is when advertisers watch and go, okay, let's set our budget. Who are we giving money to? Tide, Dick Sporting Goods. It's not guys sitting on the beach December 28th. I mean, it's not. I mean, Aaron Rogers used to be all over commercials. I'm sure he will be again, but it feels like Mahomes has surpassed him. Mahomes is on more commercials because he's playing in January and February.

And that's when all the ad, that's when all the CEOs and the ad people, that's our guy. I would say the only guy who bucked that trend was O'Dell Beckham because of the catch. Couch was in the regular season. Everybody wants to get in bed with him. They make the playoffs, they lose. It's all downhill from there on the field. But off the field, he's just raking. in the cash. He's also been very good at monetizing social.

Yes. Like IG. So that's a new part of the... Well, he blocked me on IG, so I can't see what he's doing on there, but I don't go on it. You're missing out. A lot of fun. Well, I'm missing out a lot, I've been told. Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com, or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, Unterman.

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Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro

absolutely and that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. You're now entering the No Bull Zone, sponsored by credible great rates, none of the Bull. So we got into a debate yesterday, J. Mack and I did, about, I think the Philadelphia Eagles will pull back this year. I think they'll still win the division, but last year it was, you know, it was pretty remarkable. remarkable 13, 14 wins rolling over everybody.

And my point was, look at the quarterback's face. I mean, even against Brock Purdy in the playoff game. Christian McCaffrey scores. You're like, we got ourselves a real game in Philadelphia. Purdy gets hurt. I'm not saying they didn't create a lot of this or didn't deserve their wins, but they're going to pull back. And so you're going to be as, even great teams,

aren't going to beat the great quarterbacks consistently. They're not. I'll give you three examples in a second. What you have to do is beat the mediocre to good. quarterbacks every week. But you're going to lose most of the time when you face great quarterbacks. So if you look at the Eagles schedule this year, at Matt Stafford, followed by at Aaron Rogers, followed by two and Mike McDaniel. There's DAC at Mahalms, Josh Allen, at Dak, Kyler Murray's back end of year. I'm not going to count at Seattle, cross country,

and Gino. But that's eight games against what we would perceive as very good quarterbacks. So go back to the Chiefs last year. You're like, nobody could meet the Chiefs. Actually, Josh Allen and Burrow did. They lost two both. Year before, Rams won the Super Bowl. They were rolling. Lost to Kyler Murray, Rogers, and Garoppolo twice. Garapolo like Dak, it's a good quarterback. Three years ago, Tom Brady, they rolled people. Actually, he went 0 and 2 against Breeze, lost him a Holmes, and lost to golf. Those are Super Bowl winning teams. Eagles haven't been with Jalen Hertz. They're going to win a bunch of games this year.

But maybe Tony wins the exception. Most even Hall of Fame hitters don't get most of their hits off aces. They hit the two, three, and four starters. That's just the reality of it. So when I say I can, I believe Philadelphia is going to be good, but it's not going to look like last year where they got ahead of bad quarterbacks, bad quarterbacks who trail become awful quarterbacks. average quarterbacks who trail become bad quarterback. Solid quarterbacks who trail by two touchdowns become mediocre. So now they're going to face quarterbacks who are better from behind, better taking the lead.

Big trouble when they do lead, Philadelphia is going to be really good. I don't think they're going to be great just because of who they play. Go look at the last three Super Bowl teams. They lose Kansas City last year. Fatesboro and Allen. O and two. There you go. That's the way it works.

J. Mack with the news. No. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. And by the way, what is that? What's the translation on that? That means you're often playing road playoff games, which is harder to get to the Super Bowl. Philadelphia is going to make the playoffs.

But are you a number one seat if you've got five losses in seven games against really high-end quarterbacks? Probably not. Then you have to go to San Francisco. So, and again, we're not saying San Francisco has a layup. But when you start looking at, the first thing I look at every year with schedules is, how many times do you go into a game against a great quarterback? And that's going to give me your win total.

That's why Atlanta is no good. But the wise guys are taking them nine wins and over. They face almost no elite quarterbacks. And, you know, you said the first thing you look at his schedules, first thing I look at is the gambling markets. and San Francisco's win total has been bet down. So people are saying like, ooh, tough schedule, a little uncertainty of quarterback, new defensive coordinator.

Where's Philadelphia at wind total? I think they're 11.5. So by the way, last year there were 13, 14 Super Bowl. Could have won the Super Bowl. They were 11.5 and I bet you a lot of the sharps are betting. I would bet the under. Well, the schedule was easy last year. Really?

And by the way, when you take a lead, there were in so many blowout wins, when you take a lead in an average quarterback, and he trails by two touchdown, and the Eagles defense knows he has to throw, that's when you get blowouts. I will say the Eagles crush the draft. I love their offseason. No, I like what they do a lot.

I can't find a blemish that they made, a mistake they made this offseason. Like, that draft is sick. That seems good. Their defensive front is nasty, yeah, yeah. All right, let's start with one of the best teams in the AFC. The New York Jets. Yeah, we don't talk about them enough, clearly. Well, former Jet Joe Klecko, I don't know if you remember him on the defensive line.

He initially was like me, not on board with the Air. Rogers trade, but he is coming around and he thinks that Rogers has won him over since arriving in New York. My contention was how he was going to get along with the young guys, you know, and I made it a reference to it because growing up as a team, the one I was on, we grew together. And that was really a cool thing because we got along so well. That's what I was hoping, which he now has shown that, like you said, he's ingratiated the rest of the team. And he's, You know, he's out there teaching guys, and he's doing the things that you see a Tom Brady do, you know. And I think he's going to be a big surprise for everybody in New York.

Well, I think he also got, he got ripped for not doing that last year. Do we think that was about the young guys or about the front office stuff and whatever other crap was going on with them? Probably a lot of both. Probably he wasn't going to cave to all the asks by the front office, so he wanted to exert some power. But, I mean, he got hammered for it. Justifiably, the team got really good. Thanksgiving. We hammered him on the show.

Yeah, because Thanksgiving on when Aaron had now worked with young guys that were very, very good at the end of the year. So he got hammered. And so Aaron's like smart enough to go, okay, I'm going to correct, course correct on that and practice with, as you should, practice with the kids. Yeah. Klekko, for those who don't know, I think he was part of the famed New York Sack Exchange. Remember in the 80s, Gastineau?

Yeah, I mean number 73, right? Probably. Jets also had Kenny O'Brien. I mean, I could name off all the 80s Jets because that was a big, that was my team, you know. I was born in New York. grew up in northern Virginia outside D.C. Did they win a lot of Super Bowls back then? No, no, a couple playoff games. But they also had some like one in 15 seasons.

I know. It was bleak. All right, let's go to the Denver Broncos. Their receivers have struggled to stay healthy in recent years. Jerry Judy, Cortland Sutton, Tim Patrick, K. Jay Hamler have played in the same game just twice in the last three years. That's incredible. But they're expected to be ready to go this season.

Judy thinks it could be a very dangerous group. We haven't been all on the same field since my working year. So, you know, it's been a tough few years. But having everybody on the field at the same time, it's going to be big because, you know, I know what we're capable of love and they know what we're capable of love. So having everybody on the same field, it's going to be a hard group of guys to stop. Can't wait to watch them. Judy's one of the 10 best route runners in the league.

He is so nice. Jets and Broncos, two most interesting teams in the league. Not the best, two most interesting. If you could watch two teams opening week. Now, you're a Jets fan. Jets Bills is the best game opening week. If you told me, you get only two games to watch. I'm watching the Broncos now with Sean Payton and Russell,

and I'm watching the Jets with Aaron Rogers. If you have had to select two teams, not saying they're the best teams. I cannot wait. because I think I know. Well, Chargers, Broncos are close. This Kellyn Moore, Herbert, Union. But he's not going to change the way it looks. Their offense is going to be totally different.

Like Herbert didn't throw it out the ball down the field last year. It's all dink and dunk to Echler, five-yard passes. Like, when you've got one of the best arms in the league, Moore's going to open it up. Chargers are going to look totally different next year. Totally. You're not feeling it? Well, it's the same coach. I know.

You like Sean Payton. Is he coming to our hangout tonight? No, but the point being, the Jets and Broncos were awful. The Chargers were okay. The Jets were 7 and 10 and in the mix for a playoff spot in December. They were bad. At the end of the year, they could not score. At times.

They were unwatchable, but I think they were 7 and 3, 6 and 3 at some point. Come on. Would the seasons finish after nine weeks? I forget. Final story, your favorite point guard in the league, Kyrie Irving. He's about to enter NBA free agency. He's expected to re-sign with the Mavs. After a lack of interest around the league, he reportedly wants the team he signs

where a place where he feels like he can finish his career with. I don't know, man. All signs pointing to Kyrie just begging for that four-year deal, which is what he wants. Yeah, he wants guaranteed years, and then he'll eventually flip it to eventually hold out, get more money. Like, he's a... Or who knows what? He could go AWOL. It doesn't matter.

He's guaranteed paychecks. Like, I mean, I don't know. Can you imagine a professional football league team after all this drama, all these years? He'd be out of the league. He'd be out of the NFL. No owner would probably. Antonio Brown was amazing. Out of the league. No nonsense. The reality of the NBA is you can treat the league, teammates, coaches, owners so poorly. And people are paralyzed.

I mean, Dallas has the leverage. He has no market. You would think that. But again, who's the market? There is a scenario. where he says, oh, Mavs, you can offer me four years and you won't? Well, screw you, I'm going to go to the hypothetical. The Lakers, they're only offering me two, but that's, you know, like, I'm willing to go there just to shove it in your face because you wouldn't offer me four.

And the Lakers would then have to, you know, change things up and add. Lakers are not adding to me. I don't think they would, but I'm not ruling out anything with this. If that happened, so, go blow up their roster. I mean, what's the big so? That's like if I work with somebody, they're dramatic, I'm leaving. leaving you and going to ESPN. All right, go blow up their rooms.

I mean, that's not a threat. If you're blowing up my locker room and I'm going to go to the other locker room, let me make the call for you. Like, that's not a threat. That's a promise. I'm begging you to. Oh, discombobulate one of my rivals. Yeah, it's weird.

He has this passionate fan base who back him through whatever happens. Like anything he does, they love Gary Irving. I think it's Twitter. I think it's Twitter fools gold. I think it's tiny. I don't know, dude. They had people in Brooklyn. Remember marching in unison?

Yeah. After the stuff that he was saying. 26 losers. No, it was more than that. I mean, again, I don't think. Listen. Don't be fooled by Twitter. Twitter likes a lot of things passionately.

And then when you go find out what real Americans, independent, Democrat, Republican vote, nobody cares. It's a vocal minority. But it's more than that. He has hit a nerve. pushing back. Yeah, he's hit a nerve with Luca. He's hit a nerve with a lot of weirdos out there,

and they really back this guy. It's a strange phenomenon. I don't get why. All he's done is just basically like the Heath Ledger Joker, you know how he's just going around, just blowing up everything. I don't care. Like, that's what he's done to franchises.

Left the Cavs and LeBron. Went to Boston. I'm staying here. You have to remember. There's a lot, and this is very different than any other fan base. Baseball fans, soccer fans, NFL fans, every other fan base is about winning. There's a part of the NBA fan base that's just about the star and the shoe because you,

young kids wear their NBA stars. So there's an emotional, visceral connection to a basketball fan that doesn't exist with other sports. You wear their shoes. You wear their jerseys. NBA, we wear baseball hats. If you go around in Los Angeles, you don't see Laker hats. You see Dodger hats everywhere. go to Detroit. It's not pistons. It's not lines. You see Tiger's hats. You go to New York, as you know. It's not Giants hats. It's Yankee hats or Mets hats. We wear hats of baseball teams. We wear

shoes, kids do, of NBA players. And so there's a connection. You are forever loyal. That's why the M.J. LeBron argument is what it is. Because guys have been wearing Michael's shoes for 25 years, and that's part of who they are. They take pride in those. They are connected to M.J. beyond mid-range jumpers. And so Kyrie's got his shoe crowd, Westbrook, shoe crowd. And it, it, they can't see straight. It's all emotion. Do you remember those viral videos he did early in his career?

Kyrie had some interesting viral videos. They had the Uncle Drew commercial that was really disguised as like a Pepsi commercial or whatever it was. And he got this rabid popularity. And he was winning, like, 24 games a year in Cleveland. That's when he was doing those videos. He was not, he was not a winning basketball player. He still isn't. Well, I've always compared international soccer stars to NBA stars. It's more about the star than the team.

People will follow Messi wherever he goes. They'll follow Ronaldo wherever he goes. It's not about the team. It really isn't. And so it's part of international soccer. It's part of the NBA. That's okay. I'm all for different cultures.

But trying to explain why the baseball team would never resign. So Will Packers fans follow Rogers to New York or will they just say, bye, see ya, we're rooting for Jordan Love and the Packers. Jordan Love and the Packers. I mean, don't get me wrong. They may not be rooting against Aaron because he's in the AFC. But if the Jets and Packers met in the Super Bowl, they're rooting for the Packers. Yes, 100%.

J. Mack with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. All sorts of good sports arguments out there. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to three. Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific.

Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Pauli Fuscoe here with Tony Fuscoe. Of course you know us as the host of the number one rated show in all the sports talk, the Pauley and Tony Fusco show. If you're hearing this promo right now, it means you're listening to some other show. Well, why the hell you're doing that? Yeah.

Get your priorities straight. Well, maybe Tony, they listen to this week's episode already. I don't care. Listen to it again. Yeah, great point that, Tony. Anyway, so you're listening out there. Make sure and go do that and listen to the Paulian Tony Fusco show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college. football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Saturday is Baseball Night in America on Fox. as the club with the best record in the American lead, the Tampa Bay Rays, take on the Mariners, or the Guardians take on the Cubs.

The action begins at 7 Eastern on Fox. Check for the game in your area. How about that, Diamondbacks and Giants, giving the Dodgers all sorts of troubles. So I saw this move. You and I are into this. Warren Sharp is an analytical guy. So baseball, basketball have a lot of analytics.

Football doesn't feel like they have as many, but Warren Sharp does provide those. So there's a new deal. The Patriots re-signed old 31-year-old Devonte Parker, and they gave him 33 million potentially for three years. So Ju-Jew Smith-Schuster, they just spent three years on, and he can't really separate. He's a good two or three, but he can't separate. You want your number one receiver to be able to get open a lot and separate. Devante Parker can't.

So they signed an old guy who in eight NFL years has had one good one. Last year he caught 31 balls. and they just give him $33 million bucks potentially for three years. So Warren Sharp, who again, does Warren work at this company sometimes does some stuff for us here? He does some stuff for Fox Sports.com last season.

I don't know if he has this. So he does some stuff. He kind of illuminates the reality of players. And so in wide receiver separation, do you separate from your corner? Are you more open? Devante Parker is last in the league three years in a row.

No receiver in the league. separates less, makes it harder for your quarterback. Remember Brady screaming, can you guys get open? So Juju Smith-Schuster, more of a slot guy, can get open, but he's not a great separator. In fact, Warren Sharp goes even one step further. He said, Mack Jones only targeted Parker 34 times last year. Four were picked. That's the number one highest pick rate for any receiver in the league plus 20 targets.

Parker can't separate. And it's very much a challenge. So I'll throw this at you, J. Mac, and you tell me if you buy into my argument. So Belichick has always controlled the Patriots. And then there was the moment. Brady said, get Garoppolo out of here. And Belichick, like Garapolo, is a second round pick. It was the first time Bill's power was usurped.

To that point, Brady had been a team guy, a Bill guy, whatever Bill says. We learned later in Tom's documentary, his wife said it'd be nice just to have more input and get respect. So Tom always played nice. Then on Garoppolo, he went above Bill to Robert Kraft. Craft supported Brady, pissed off Bill, and Garopolo got sent out the door to the NFC. They gave him away, essentially, gave him away for nothing, a starting quarterback that went to the Super Bowl eventually. And so here comes Mack Jones, right? And Brady left because he didn't have a say.

Tom Brady the goat didn't ever say. So here comes Mac Jones. Cucky McEnroe Jones has an attitude outspoken. Bill says, I'm not doing this again. I'm not doing this again. I'm not relinquishing control of the franchise again. So I want to win, but we're going to win my way. So he hires last year a DC, a defensive coordinator to OC,

suppress Mac Jones. Stop talking or I'll do this. right? Like everybody in football know, this is dumb. Bill's not dumb. That was to suppress Mack Jones. You want to talk trash? Welcome to my world. I run the franchise. I ran it before Brady took it. We're not doing that again. So what does he do? He goes out and signs, they don't have any tight ends that separate. So he goes out and signs Devonte Parker for three years and Juju Smith-Schuster for three years. Parker separates less than any receiver in the league, and Juju doesn't really separate. So what is it saying?

Bill is saying, we're going to win my way. Defense, special teams, run game. No ad-libbing, no superstar quarterback, scheme dependent. Even the last two drafts have been illuminating. The Patriots have one clear essential need, and everybody in Patriotland knows it. I lived there for 10 years. They're slow. They have no playmakers.

In the last two drafts, in the first five rounds, that's where you get most of your good players. They have drafted one wide receiver, no tight ends, no speed guys. They have in that time drafted four offensive linemen, multiple five defensive backs, two kickers, or one kicker. look at, they didn't go after, and by the way, they drafted a backup quarterback. So they drafted somebody behind Mac Jones to put pressure on him, one wide receiver when it's their number one need. Again, it is Belichick saying we're going to be scheme dependent, coach dependent, run game dependent, defense dependent. I'm not relinquishing control of this franchise to a young kid with an attitude. Now, you can say what you want, but right now Vegas has them as the fourth play.

team. So this constant Belichick worship, which he earned a lot of it until Brady left and we figured, oh, Tom now can win without Bill and Bill can't win without Tom. So Mac Jones at Bama, how do we know Mac Jones? He had two first round wide receivers and a second round round receiver. Right? Like guys that can make plays, guys that elevated Bama and Mac Jones. That's why he got drafted so high. He didn't get drafted that high because of his arm, his size, his mobility. He was elevated. It became a bit of a college star. So when I look at this New England, Devante Parker, Judeo, Smith, Schuster, those are scheme-dependent players.

They're not going to get open on their own. They don't have a tight end that gets open on their own. It becomes very coach-driven, scheme-dependent. Mac is suppressed. And I believe some of that is, yeah, when we control this thing, remember Brady said a few years ago, I'm going to coach the guys I want to coach. He's also going to coach the way he wants to coach, where the organization runs through Bill,

it started running through Tom. They won Super Bowls with it, but he didn't like it. Well, you remember early Tom Brady, just when he started in four Bloodsoe, Bloodsoe got injured. Brady was a game manager. It was Belichick's way.

We're going to move with defense as special teams, and I'm looking at Brady's numbers. You know, it's the fewest touchdowns of his career were in like the first five years. Interceptions were high, young quarterback making mistakes. In his 30s, Brady's throwing tons of touchdowns far fewer interceptions, throwing more passes, he's a better quarterback.

Belichick's just saying, hey, man, you've got a bright upside, Mac, but I don't trust you now. You're what, a third-year quarterback? Sorry, we're going to get with you. You know, they picked up Gaseki in free agency. So now they got Hunter Henry Gaseki, probably a lot of two tight-end sets, a lot of running the football. A lot. And like, you know, except wide receivers that don't separate. I don't know.

I don't see Max throwing it a lot. If he's frustrated, you know what, Mac, hey, you can go try to make another team in the league. So your positive spin is this is what they're. personnel is. I would argue the world's changed. Yeah, I would, I would agree. You cannot be the slowest team in the league and win. Belichick's what, 70 years old? Can you just tell a 70 year old guy, hey, the world is changing, you've got to adapt. I don't think he's 70s. He's younger. Isn't he younger than that? Am I wrong on that? I think he's in a seven. Whatever, he's old. And bottom line is like, you've got to adapt or die, and Belichick doesn't seem to be adapting with the pieces he's got

right now. Is Belichick 71? He's age well. You'd think these NFL coaches would age poorly. He Actually, he and Peter both 70. Andy Reed is consistently adapted to what the league is. Like, he is one of the four. I know we love Belcher. Your take is. Reed has been incredible. Your take is, this is what they are.

They don't see Mack Jones as special. Surround him with receivers that can't separate, two tight end sets, old school football. Yeah. The league is zinging to a passing league. We're going to go ahead and zag to running defense and special teams. My argument is this is a way to make Mac Jones very coach and scheme dependent. You're going to do it my way.

This is not going to be an aerial circus. We are going to win one way. I don't think Mac Jones can win an aerial attack. He could at Alabama when he's got like the best receivers in the country and they're destroying people. You and I disagree on Mac Jones. I think Mac is a little better. If you go look at Mac's rookie numbers, they're really good.

Oh, come on. We've been over this. He faced garbage defenses, man. And they beat a bunch of bad quarterbacks. What happened when they got in the playoffs against Buffalo? They lost 47-17 or something like that. Bloodbath. Well, yeah, that's how you win games in the NFL.

You face average quarterbacks. For the record, where would you put... We should do a steak dinner on the Patriots this year. All right, let's do it. Will they finish ahead of the Jets? Of course not. Come on. I am so torn on them because you literally can't win.

There is an argument to me made that what they're doing is a little bit sinister and genius. They've said to the league, we're going to do the up. We're not going to out-shoot me. Mahomes. The only way to beat Alan and Mahomes is keep them off the field. So we're going to draft guards. We're going to win close with kickers. We're going to do defense. We can't outscore them.

Yeah, so by the way, their defense has changed a lot of players. Remember, they don't want to pay guys once they get really good. So their cornerbacks, Jonathan Jones, a young guy who was excellent last year. And they're going to be starting a rookie, the kid, Christian Gonzalez, from Oregon. Like, does their defensive front get enough pressure? Judon is awesome. Well, last year they were third in

generating sacks. Their defensive numbers were skewed last year because they beat as we talked about, bad quarterbacks. We'll see what happens this year. I'm not optimistic. They're over under seven and a half. What are you having? Six or seven wins.

Oh, come on. Belichick's going to go six and eleven? No, Mac Jones is going to go six and eleven. No, I'll bet a steak dinner. I'll bet a steak dinner. Can I get seven two? Six or seven? There's no way they only win six.

They'll win six on defense and no turnovers. That's possible. That's Belichick's normal. Our two. next. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious

guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for

banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get, your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway

with your favorite therapist and host, Kare Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app,

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