The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - AFC Tiers

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Where Jason was right and wrongUpdate on the Saquon Barkley-Giants contract dramaJason gives his AFC tier list Guest: Tom PelisseroSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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you get your podcasts. Our number two here on the herd, it's me, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherty is on vacation right now. He sent me a photo on a boat. It looks very luxurious and fun. And I think he's having a grand whole time, Alex. Yeah, and we're having a great time holding down the fort until Wednesday. Yes, indeed. So it should be a fun few days here. NFL insider Tom Pellasaro joining us shortly to talk about some injuries, the Naim Hinton injury. Not great, not great, Buffalo, the running back market and all that fun stuff. But I convinced the staff to do a segment.

I know every Monday Colin does where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. And I was like, you know, guys, I've been on the show several years now, seven. Colin seems to think it's like three. Been coming on the show for like seven years. You get a few things wrong and a lot of things right or vice versa. And so we're going to dust it off where Jason was right, where Jason was wrong. Here we go. Where Jemak was right.

Let's go with Jamal Murray. Woo! My guy, Jamal Murray, besides hanging out with Cowherd at UFC fights in Vegas, Jamal Murray was unbelievable in the playoffs. I hyped this guy. I said he was going to be incredible. In the postseason, 26, 7 and 5, shot 39% on threes. Just looked the part of a superstar, the perfect Robin to Yolka.

which is Batman, Denver wins the title, and man, I was all over this Jamal Murray love. We got to get him on the show, big fan of Jamal Murray. Where J-Mack was wrong. Let's go with the Mormon Mahomes, Zach Wilson. Listen, since he came in the league, I've been hyping this guy. Zach Wilson's our guy. He's the new franchise. Look at it.

He can fling it. And it's just been one disaster after another. I have a soft spot for the Jets, okay? This is a guy I used to like Christian Hackenberg back in the day, okay? I mean, that was maybe a worse call than Zach Wilson. But coming on here and calling him the Mormon Mahomes, minor mistake through two seasons, 22 games, he has 15 touchdowns, 18 interceptions, and a lot of futility. It was a whiff by your boy.

Where J-Mack was right? Let's go with last season in the NFL, man, very profitable if you followed us on the Giants and the Eagles. said they would both make the playoffs, really liked the Giants, convinced Colin. He had the Giants, I think, in the basement. I was like, look at the schedule, bro. It's very favorable. And then, of course, the Eagles,

I didn't have them going to the Super Bowl, but I did say it would be one of the best teams in the NFC. They were incredible with Jalen Hertz, who was basically an MVP candidate, should have won the award. Sorry, Patrick Mahomes. And that was a nice feather in my cap. Where J. Mack was wrong.

Oh, the Seattle Seahawks. You guys remember in the preseason? I said, oh, if the Seahawks are above 500, I'll shave a logo in the side of my head. You can see on the screen what happened. Not good. Not good. It was bad. I mean, the logo looked great.

And I got destroyed on the internet for it. But yeah, there it is, Alex. I'm sure you remember that day. Very, very fine moment in haircut history. Yes, yes. Sorry. Where J-Mack was right. The Los Angeles Rams, after winning the Super Bowl,

I was hosting The Hurt. It was a radio-only day. And I remember driving into the studio, talking with Ryan, our producer. And I was like, I got a hot take, guys. There's a world where the Rams missed the playoffs and they're not good. There was silence on the other end of the phone. And Ryan's like, oh, come on, you can't do that. And I was like, listen, and I laid out the case.

And the Rams, listen, I know the injuries and the offensive line. It went south. But that was probably my best spot on call last season. Where J. Mack was wrong. Oh, the Dallas Mavericks in my soft spot for Luca Donchich. That went very, very badly. I don't even like Kyrie Irving, but I tried to tell myself, oh, after they got Kyrie, they'll go to the finals.

They missed the playoffs. The stats are on the screen. It's bleak. It was horrible. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, America. It was bad. Where Jemak was right?

Let's go with DeAndre Hopkins to the Titans, huh? You guys know the headline segment. I mean, I did call this. We predicted Hopper. to the Titans. I don't, listen, I don't think it's a massive home run for them, but I did call it correctly, right? So that counts as a win.

Where J. Mack was wrong. Russell Wilson, damn it. So I go to Vegas every summer and sign up for a gambling contest that I make my season-long bets, and I bet a bunch of week-one games. My second biggest week-one bet. Oh, come on. Russell and the Broncos, they're going to kill Seattle.

What a whiff that was. It hurt watching. Nathaniel Hackett, Russell Will. It was all a disaster of the season. It was a train wreck. Big, big whiff for your boy. Where J. Mack was wrong. Right.

We will end up with another wrong. Geez, thanks, guys. So U.S. soccer, six and a half was a spread for USA and Vietnam. USA won 13. Nothing last year against their bad opponent. I'm like, oh, U.S. will roll. Shots on goal, USA Vietnam, 23 to nothing. And they end up with just three goals.

and they do not come close to sniffing the six and a half win total. Good celebrations. Thanks for the missed penalty kick, Alex Morgan. It was just unbelievable how they could not find the back of the net. Kudos to the Vietnam goalie, who was tremendous. USA let me down. All right, let's get to our guest, Tom Pellasaro, NFL insider for the NFL Network. Tom, how you doing, man?

Grape chasing. Glad to be back with you, man. Yeah, yeah, good to talk to you. Now, you know, I don't know if you were privy to the big Zoom call that happened over the weekend for NFL running backs. Austin Echler apparently spearheaded it. Can you just tell us what, like what was the idea behind this? I thought Christian McCaffrey involved, Derek Henry. Tell us everything you know.

This has been going on for a while, Jason, because all those running backs have been on a group text thread recently here talking about the fact that, you know, some of their highest profile guys aren't getting deal. or aren't getting deals to the level that they would like to think that they would inside the marketplace. So, I mean, I don't know how to set up a Zoom. I'm kind of impressed Austin Echler does. He does have his own podcast. So he's probably got some more technological skills than I might hear. But the discussion is ongoing here. When you look at the running back market right now and I know that I've seen all kinds of different suggestions about what the running backs should do and they should self-unionize.

The rules should change. There should be performance-based pay. Here's the bottom line. it is about individual contract precedent in the NFL. When you talk about moving marketplaces, there's a reason if you go back a decade ago, one of the most underpaid positions, one of the lowest paid positions in the NFL was defensive tackle. Now guys are making $25, $27, $30 million a year. And that was about Aaron Donald resetting the market and all that next tier of guys now suddenly want to get higher.

Chris Jones holding out because he wants to be in that tier as well. I'm not saying it's as simple as, well, nobody takes the deals, but the best leverage any player has in any situation is withholding their services. When Sequin Barclay, Josh Jacobs don't take deals at the franchise tag signing deadline, when Dalvin Cook is still sitting out there on the market, and he does have strong offers, strong interest, but isn't signing a deal yet. This is the best thing you can do, which is saying we're simply not going to take the offer just because it's the best offer we have now.

We want to try to shift this thing moving forward here. Will it actually work? We'll find out. Now, one of the tough things, Tom, is you just said strong offer for Dalvin Cook. Is there any way to quantify like what the Berkeley numbers were that he turned down? Or are both sides just withholding that information and it's not known? Because, you know, if he turned down 11 and the franchise tag is 10, you know, they're clearly apart. But if he turned down like 13 million a year, then it's a different story. I can tell you it wasn't 13 million a year.

certainly not in base pay. There were a lot of different structures that were discussed when it came to Saquan Barclay and the Giants. In the end, there was a strong base offer. It was upwards of $10 million per year for Saquan Barclay. And the guarantees got to a place that, I mean, I legitimately thought, me and Ian Rapporte are sitting on the set at NFL Network and we thought that and Josh Jacobs could go either way right up until minutes before the deadline. In the end, they both ended up saying no. This is certainly a bet by Saquan Barclay. You look around the, rest of the league. You know, you got Christian McCaffrey. He was making $16 million a year. Nick Chubb is up there. Alvin Camara, though, he's got this kind of backloaded type of deal

where his numbers probably aren't as high as they look like they are on paper. But again, getting paid a lot of money here, you know, you have to look at the risk that you would mitigate relative to the possibility of the market rebounding in 2024. Ultimately, Sequin got to a point where he wasn't going to take the deal. Now the question becomes for him and Josh Jacobs, do they show up come week one and make $10 million this season, or do they extend this into the regular season, start giving up around a $700,000 paycheck per week, knowing that because that deadline's already passed,

the only thing that the team can do, it's not a multi-year deal anymore. They can adjust a one-year contract, or either of these teams even willing to do that. Interesting. Yeah, adjusting the one-year contract. I looked at the giant schedule, Tom. There's a real chance that this team opens like one in five if Sequin doesn't show up.

I don't know how much leverage that would give him, and here it is on the screen. You know, if you assume losses to Dallas, San Fran, Seattle, Miami, Buffalo, you know, and you're looking at a one in five start, like without Sequin, does he then have leverage to get something done in the future? Can they do a handshake deal down the road? How do you...

I mean, I don't want to advise the guy to sit out. Like, you know, we know the Levyon Bell story, but this is a Giants team that's heavily dependent on Seekwon Barkley. When you go back to the Levyon Bell situation, Jason, just think about this in the context of what we're talking about right now with the running back market. You can find my tweet that I had after this. This is the first time that Leveon got tagged where he didn't end up showing up until September before they tagged him the second time and he sat out. The first time, the deal that he turned down at the final hour, the final minutes, would have paid him $30 million over two and like $42 million over three. guys aren't getting that now at the running back position. But from Levyon's perspective at the time, he wanted to be paid like he was not only the starting running back, but also the number two receiver on that team.

Now, he ends up coming back. Still got a pretty strong deal from your guy, Mike McCagnan there with the Jets. It obviously did not go well for anybody involved in that. But LeBion did make a decent amount of money. Never could make back the money that he missed in that one year sitting out. And who knows where his career would have been. He probably wouldn't be boxing right now if he hadn't sat out that season.

So Sequin, Josh Jacobs, you got to take that history into account. So let's think about this. All right, let's not get six games into it. Because once six games are gone, you're talking about $3.5, $4 million being out the window. And if the Giants are, to use your words, not mine, your words, Jason, one and five at that point. There's not a lot of point in, you know, begging the guy to come back and doing something. But let's say you get a game or two into the season. What could they do?

Well, one would be the obvious financial one, which is we'll still pay you the full 10 point, whatever million, to come back just for 15 games. Maybe a more likely scenario would be, do you say, we'll give you a chunk of the money now to show up? This is something that potentially could happen before the season, not saying the Giants will do this, but just an option. We'll say, hey, we'll give you $5 million now and then pay the rest of the $5 million over the season,

or we'll give you an adjusted contract where we agree not to tag you in 2024. The teams are reluctant to do this because you set precedence when you make moves like that and you potentially set precedence for the rest of the league that, you know, players, if you just withhold your services, we're going to cave, we're going to give you all this other stuff. It's still early here. We're talking about July. There's no games won or lost the last week of July here. But, I mean, Josh Jacobs flew back to his hometown earlier today. He was on a 6 a.m. flight out of Vegas.

He's not expected to come back anytime soon. And with Sequin, I don't get the sense that he's going to show up in the near term either. So we may very well could be down to that final preseason. game and then to the 53 man cut down, which I want to say is around August 27th. After that's usually where sometimes those guys are going to come in. Will these guys do it? Will that continue to be a negotiation of any kind into the weekend? These are all problems that are going to be talked about down the line. But bottom line, teams don't want to make those types of adjustments of one-year deal just

because then everybody can use that against you. That's good intel. Naim Hines goes down for the Buffalo Bills, awful injury. Instantly, you got to wonder like, okay, Kareem Hunt, come on down. Zeke Elliott, you know, or does Buffalo, I don't have their cap situation off the top of my head, do they say, hey, we'd rather just plug in some guy on the super cheap in the backfield? Or does Buffalo say, no, no, no, we're a Super Bowl team. Give us Four Nett, Z, Kareem, Hunt.

I'm assuming no Dalvin Cook there? I would not anticipate Dalvin Cook ending up in Buffalo, even though his brother James is, of course, there too. Delvin Cook has going to have better offers elsewhere than what he's going to be able to get from Buffalo. Because you referenced their cap situation. And listen, the cap can be molded. You can do salary convergence and everything, but the bills have already done a lot of that. And they're relatively tight right now. They spent on an edge rusher later on in free agency.

I don't see them going out and spend in $6, $7, $8 million per year on a running back. Having said that, they certainly have at least explored the possibilities of bringing in one more. Remember, they signed Latavius Murray in the off season. They signed Damien Harris in the off season. They do still have James Cook. The difference with Naim Hines is he's this kind of check. piece, not only in the return game, but you can split him out. He's going to be, I think he had way more catches than carries last year for the bill.

So they would have some cool stuff in the offense for him instead. And it's a really scary and just awful situation all around. My understanding on Naim Hines is that, you know, he's an avid water sports guy. He's had a certification for a long time riding a jet ski. He's sitting there just filled up his tank or something and is sitting there. And then some moron who didn't know what they were doing crashes into a his leg. So he suffers a left ACL injury. You know, they'll do surgery probably later on on this week. They'll see what else is there. But he's not going to be around for 2023. And, you know,

if you know how NFL contracts work too, Jason, when you have an injury that suffered like that, and it's even if you're training on your own, but, you know, much less, you know, doing water sports or whatever, teams don't have to pay you. They can put you on the non-football injury list. It's up to the team to decide how to handle the contract situation. It's just unfortunate for everybody involved here and certainly I think that anybody who's met Naim Hines is wishing the best form. Wait a minute. They could just say, hey, you suffered an injury away from the facility. We're not paying you your salary of $3 million or whatever? Isn't that an awful precedent for future players, though? And forget about, well, that's, and that's what teams have to figure out here.

There have been other situations. You remember, this goes back to the COVID year when guys were working out on their own and teams could do different things where they could, I've got hundreds of pages of memos in my head, Jason. So for, forgive me if I don't remember the exact things here. But teams were allowed to like send somebody a Peloton or some weights or resistance bands and then like give them a program that they could follow. Well, if the guy still though, if he was working out on his own, if he wasn't following that program or whatever, they could still take their money away, even though no one was allowed

at the facility, they could still NFI guys and not pay them. So you saw there was a grievance on one player, Juan James, who was playing for the Broncos and then got hurt working out on his own, ends up with the Ravens a year later. But, yeah, I mean, that was a fight, and there were other situations. Teams ultimately don't have to pay unless you get injured doing football activities or working out at the team facility. They're not on the hook for it. Some teams, based on circumstances, will pay the guy. Other teams won't.

I would say more often than not, players do not get paid. And anybody you're seeing now, Jason, you're going to see you already have a half dozen guys go on NFI. There will be dozens more in the coming weeks here. Whenever you see that, remember, that means that potentially that guy not only is missing out on football if he doesn't get back. Because if I can also be a temporary designation, but that guy misses the season, he may not get a dime. All right, we'll get you out of here on this one, Tom. Cadarius, Tony goes down for the Chiefs. I saw some reports or he was supposed to be number one on the depth chart.

A receiver, they lose Juju Smith-Schuster. You also have MVS, a couple of young guys. Is this going to hurt the Chiefs significantly? I know Tony's had some injuries, but he's an electric player. Well, and that's the question is, you know, Andy Reid downplayed it and said that he tweaked his knee. We'll see what the situation ultimately ends up being. But Cadarius Tony's had a lot of injuries, a lot of soft tissue stuff. Through the course of his career, it was the hamstring that kept him off the field for a long time with the Giants.

You just wonder how quickly he's hitting it back on the field. I think what you saw with Cadarius Tony down the stretch last season was he is an electric player in space. He kind of reminds me, he's not built exactly like him, but it reminds me a little bit of Percy Hart. Well, Percy Harvin was never a fully dimensional receiver who'd run the whole route tree, but you'd create cool stuff for him. You put him in the back field or you get him out on a bubble or you give him an end around or easy routes. And he could do it. And he'd make things happen once you got the football into his hands.

That's the same thing. I believe they both went to Florida. Similar type of a deal with Cadarius Tony. I fully anticipate if he's able to get back, if this is a minor type of a deal like Andy Reid indicated that it was, that he's going to be a big-time player within that offense. But also, let's be honest, Jason. It's the Chiefs.

Everybody said, what's going to happen without Tyree Kale? Now it's what's going to happen without Jujus. Souser. What might happen without Cadarius, Tony? Wild guess. Patrick Mahomes is thrown for 5,000 yards and 40 touchdowns, no matter who is out there with them. Yeah, Tom Pellasaro, NFL Network, NFL Insider. Great stuff, Tom. Great, great stuff on Heinz, although it's depressing.

But thanks a lot and enjoy the camps. You got it, man. Good stuff, man. Alex, that Naim Hines. thing is disappointing. The more we find out about it too, like fueling up just sitting there, like fueling up his jet ski. They might not pay him?

I don't even want to look up his salary this year. What is like $3 million? That's heartbreaking. And again, it wasn't necessarily his fault because someone else hit him. Now he can't play. Now I might not get paid. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's heartbreaking. Brutal. All right. Coming up next, Alex has updates on Chris Jones and Josh Jacobs. Plus my AFC tears. How high up are the jets? Take a guess

people. Find out next on the herd. Thanks for listening to The HARD podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

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Well, Jay Mack, the United States open the 2023 Women's World Cup with a 3-0 win over Vietnam. Sophia Smith scored two of their three goals to become the second youngest U.S. women's national team player to school multiple goals in a World Cup game. Now, the team has now won 13 straight matches at the World Cup extending its own record for most consecutive wins in the competition. Now it was a win, J-Mack, but it wasn't pretty. There was a lot of missed shots, including Alex Morgan's PK. Vietnam came in with a strategy and it worked. They were extremely aggressive.

They were chippy and it almost felt like they took U.S. out of their game. They never felt like there was this consistent flow of chemistry. Starting in the first two minutes when Rodman got taken down and was on the floor for almost two minutes. So at this point, you get the win. obviously I think everyone expected it to be a lot more of a high scoring game. You talked about that and where J-Mac was wrong. But now we look ahead to their match on Wednesday, and it's a rematch from the 2019 World Cup final against the Netherlands.

So what they need to do is they just need to play their game. They need to find that chemistry and do what they do best, which is win. I don't know what to take away from the Vietnam game, other than you made a good point that just the physical nature seemed to rattle the U.S. He took them down every opportunity they had. You know, you play sports.

I played soccer in college. When you come out and they're physical with you and the refs aren't going to the card and they're just saying foul, you just kind of look and you're like, what are we playing prison rules today? Is that what's going on here? Just anything goes? It was a strategy.

And it worked. Listen, yeah. I don't love, they didn't look great. They did not look particularly sharp. I mean, you have to remember, they're also missing a lot of core players, a lot of veteran core players that aren't on the team right now that got injured right before the World Cup. So you have young, exciting talent playing with veterans that haven't had a lot of time spent together yet. So you hope it gets better from here. I mean, this is going to be, Wednesday is going to be a tough one.

As I mentioned, it's a rematch of the 2019 World Cup final that the U.S. won. so you know the Netherlands is going to come out with, you know, a chip on their shoulder. Like, we're going to show you. So it's... I think I had seen over the weekend unders in the World Cup started out 11 and 1. A lot of low-scoring games. Yeah, a lot of low-scoring games. Again, that stuff changes quickly.

I'm not saying go bet unders. But just worth looking at going forward. A lot of low-scoring games, that's not great if you're the U.S. You know, you don't... This Netherlands team is solid. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And the U.S. is kind of...

I don't want to say they're in a... transition phase, but kind of. This is the young stars kind of coming in and slowly taking over for the veterans right now. So Wednesday should be an exciting one on Fox. All right, let's move on. Chiefs defensive tackle, Chris Jones did not report

to the start of camp as he looks for a new contract. He is entering the last year of the four-year, $80 million deal he signed in 2020, but the two sides are reportedly far apart in negotiations. He is also reportedly looking for a deal that will pay him $30 million annually. Now, Jones,

tied his career high last season with 15 and a half sacks, which ranked fourth in the league. Now, this is the Chief's best defensive player. He's a top five. Right now, he is the eighth highest paid defensive tackle. Okay. If he got $30 million a year, he would be the second highest paid behind Aaron Donald. Is he worth it? Well, that's the problem.

He saw the Quinn and Williams deal. He wants more. Yep. I don't think he's worth Aaron Donald. I mean, he's very good. He's on this team, obviously. 30 mil? That's a significant chunk.

Listen, it's going to get worked out. I know it's tough when you see T.J. Watts, like, an outside pass rusher. Jones does move to the outside sometimes. There was a couple moves in the Bengals game on the final drive where they had done a good job on Jones, so they moved him to the outside, and it totally opened things up. I don't know. I mean, is he definitely better than mine?

Miles Garrett, DJ Watt, and Bosa. Like, you know, Simmons got 23-mill at the same position. Quentin got 24. Yeah. Probably, I think the 25, 26, given his age, probably makes the most sense, but probably not to him. And Andy Reid even said he was surprised Jones wasn't there, but said they'll keep moving forward on without him.

So that's just... Plenty of time. No need to get worried. What's the line? Deadline. spur action. Well, the Jets had hard knocks. They didn't want the Quinn and Williams thing to drag out. So boom, let's get this done. No drama behind the seats. Well, what are the cheats rushing for? I'm sure Chris Jones doesn't mind missing a couple of practices. Nope. All right. Speaking of missing

practices, Josh Jacobs and the Raiders did not agree to a long-term extension and the running back is not expected to report to training camp. He was seen leaving Las Vegas and reportedly will not return anytime soon. Devante Adams was recently asked about the situation with his teammate and said he's still holding hope that things work out. Take a listen. Really valued position in the league that gets devalued by the way that the market goes. But, you know, I'm praying everything works out because if we really want to have a shot at winning Super Bowl and having all the, you know, the elite aspirations that we do, we're going to need that guy. So, you know, I'm praying that we can still figure something out.

But, you know, also understanding where Josh is coming from but trying to coach him through it at the same time. Now Raiders camp starts tomorrow for veterans. So that's when everyone is supposed to show up. But it's kind of a similar situation to Seyquan Bartley. Holding out to try to get the deal that you want because you believe that you deserve more. And we talked about this on Friday. We talked about it earlier in the show.

Like last time we saw this, Levyon Bell, holding out and missing a full season was never the same once you came back. And you're never going to get that money back that you don't receive when you don't play. And then the Raiders just got positive news that Jimmy G. Passed is physical. And then, of course, this news comes out that Jacobs isn't going to be there. They just can't buy a break right now.

It's interesting that Devante Adams, and I know he said a lot, it was balanced. You know, he understands the situation. But we need Josh to reach our elite aspirations. To win a Super Bowl. That's what he said. Xavier McKinney of the Giants is like, I totally understand. Now, maybe he said more of the quote and they just cut off part of it. But Adams, remember, he was unhappy early.

this off season. Yeah. I don't know. He came into a really... This really... This really seems to not be going great. McDaniels has a bad history too. He came into an unfortunate situation.

Carr was his guy. Like one of his good friends. Then the way they did him dirty towards the end of last season and he was gone. And now you get Jimmy G. Which seems like a bridge quarterback situation to see if they draft someone... That's a good...

You just said that coming up. How McDaniels treated Carr at the end of last season. Yeah, that's going to put a lot. a bitter taste in your mouth when that's a dear friend of yours. And now the way they're treating Josh Jacob. Yeah, it's action speak louder than words. And it's Daniels, when he had gone to Denver, like ruffle feathers instantly. First thing was like, Jay Cutler, you're not my guy, get out of here.

These Belichick disciples, they go places think they can act the way Belichick did and it just doesn't work. Uh-uh. Like, ooh, this is bleak. It's going to be an interesting energy. at that training camp. Yeah. Alex with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. So we're going to do AFC tiers next. After you heard what Alex just said about the Raiders, like they're not in one of the top tiers. As a matter of fact, they're near the bottom. Who's on the same levels of the Chiefs? Surprise teams and how much faith do I have in my guy?

Aaron Rogers. That's next on The Herd. Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every one. weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Two NBA Insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you right into the NBA great vibe. All happening in only one place. This league uncut. The new NBA podcast with me,

Chris Haines. And me, Mark Stein. Join us as we team up to expound on everything we're covering, hearing, and chasing. Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haynes and Mark Stein. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back here on the herd, Jason McIntyre in for Colin, joined by Alex Curry. I'm going to dive into the AFC, kind of a playoff outlook, not a rankings. It's a tiers system. Some people are fond of the bubble.

I think tiers works better because visually you guys are going to like what the staff here did. So I've broken the A – tomorrow we'll do NFC. Today we're going to do the AFC. We're going to go four tiers starting at the bottom. And what you're going to see is unlike this country right now, we lack of middle class. The middle class of the AFC stacked. Let's start at the bottom. These are the worst teams in the AFC.

No particular order, but we've got Raiders, Patriots, Titans, Colts, and Texans. They're in the bottom tier. They're the bottom feeders. They'll probably be fringe contenders for the USC quarterback. I think if anybody's a legit contender, it's the Raiders. I just looked up their win total. Look at the wind totals down here. Six and a half for the Raiders, six and a half for the Colts, six and a half for Houston.

Another theme here is young quarterbacks. Colts are starting a rookie quarterback if Richardson wins a job. Could be Gardner Minshu, who is Stuyken's guy from Philly. Houston is starting Stey-J-Straud. The Raiders have Jimmy Garoppolo. By the way, fun note on Garoppolo, sure look good in Kyle Shanahan's system. How's you going to look in Josh McDaniels' system? And I know they were together in New England.

Very curious. Garapolo coming off the foot injury. Poor offensive line, had a great offensive line. There is a world where these Raiders are like four. wins. New England's here. Their win total is seven and a half. Yeah, win total for New England seven and a half. I just, I don't like what they've got. Don't like their skill position, guys. I know the defense had great numbers last year. I think it was a little overinflated, facing a lot of bad quarterbacks, but that's the bottom tier for me in the AFC. Now you go

up to tier three, and now you're starting to cook a little bit. Now you've got a bunch of playoff teams, but this is the tough category because a lot of these guys are in the playoff mix, but they're in my third tier. Let's start with the Steelers. You know I'm bullish on them. Can I be driving the Kenny Pickett bandwagon? I mean, I've been pushing the Steelers. It's funny. I'll say this. When the herd social media staff, led by the Great West, puts out some video where I'm talking about NFL teams and it's positive, I get all these new followers and they're like all these fan groups and the Steelers are one of them. I got buddies texting me who I haven't talked to in years. Dude, I love that you love the Steelers this year.

Kenny Pickett for Life. And I'm like, settle down. It's July. I like the Steelers. I really do believe they're a team to watch. Watt and Highsmith, like I like the Steelers. Ravens are probably the only team in here that should be kicked up. Win total of 10 and a half.

That's the highest of anybody in this group. A lot of newness, though. New wide receivers, new OC, new contract for Lamar. Defense is going to drop down a little bit. Justin Tucker, the kicker's still back. The head coach is very good. Just a lot of questions on defense. dolphins here. Cowherd is much higher on Miami. I just, I got to see it with Tua. Like their range

of outcomes, Miami could be a seven-win team. If two is hurt, he's healthy all season long. Why can't they win 12 games? The schedule is very challenging. I got the chargers in here, Herbert, another new OC and Kellyn Moore. Jacksonville Jaguars are very interesting, folks. Nine and a half is their win total. The division, you see three of their teams are in tier four. but I just want to remind people their left tackle's been suspended for the first four games. They lost their right tackle in free agency

and this is a team that started last season three and seven before luck boxing into the playoffs thanks to having to face Josh Dobbs who I think was like giving out Halloween candy a few months prior and then had to start week 18 for the Tennessee Titans

and the Jags were trailing in that game before they came back in one. So a lot of luck involved late. Remember that Dallas game? Oh my gosh. Are you kidding me? The comeback, Jack Prescott throwing picks. Like a lot of luck involved to get to the playoffs last year. So Jacksonville don't automatically think they're leaping up. Denver Broncos. They just got great news. I was just seeing this this morning. Giovante Williams, their talented running back who was awesome last year as a rookie. He had a gruesome injury. They were worried he wouldn't be able to start the season. It looks like he's going to be ready to go for week one. That's big for Peyton

and Russ. I like Denver. I just, again, I can't make a case for them in Tier 1 or Team 2. And then Cleveland is the team that's a bit confounding. Nine and a half is their Vegas win total. So Vegas is something that I don't. They feel a little Ramsey from the year the Rams won the Super Bowl when the Rams were very top heavy and they had no injuries. Great offensive line, quarterback, skill position guys.

If you look at the Rams, sorry, the Brown's depth chart, not a lot of depth. They just have top end talent that's good. but if they suffer any injuries, there's like not a lot of room where they'll be good. So that's Tier 3. Let's kick it up to Tier 2. What did you know it? The New York Football Jets.

Folks, you guys can mock me all you want for being a homer. I'm just saying, have you seen the throws? Aaron Rogers has been delivering at camp. Have you seen Garrett Wilson? Go up and get it. In the end, I mean, it looks so good. There is so much excitement around this New York Jets team. Remember, there's reporters covering this team who are like,

I've covered this team for eight years. They've never had competent quarterback play. They've got it now with Aaron Rogers. As long as things go okay early. People are saying two and four, some are saying three and three. I think they're starting four and two, and I'm insufferable, more insufferable than usual in September. I really think the Jets are right there.

Buffalo Bills, I have them here. I've been wishy-washy on Buffalo. they're a tough read for me. I'm not a huge fan of their head coach McDermott. I know Mr. Dawkins came here on the set and tried to make a bet with me a few weeks ago. It's not an official bet. It's not official people, just so you know,

that season opener between the Jets and the Bills. I've got the Jets in that one, obviously. And finally, let's go up to our top tier in the AFC. This should surprise absolutely nobody, but it's the Kansas City Chiefs and the Cincinnati Bengals. The class of the AFC, and folks, they're the class. pretty much of the league right now.

The Bengals, nobody saw this coming. Nobody saw January Joe Burrow going from Ohio State to LSU, setting every record possible in college football. Then coming to the NFL, people are comparing him to Montana. We're like, come on, can we slow down? He had one great season in college. Joe Burroughs been unbelievable in the NFL. Looks the part as a leader.

Everything he says just sounds like a great leader. The defense is very good. A most underrated defensive coordinator in the league. The offense is stacked. Like, I mean, come on. I watched enough Andy Dalton over the years. I didn't think this was even possible. For most of my lifetime as a Jets fan,

the Bengals were like a laughing stock. And now they're set to be one of the great teams in the league for a while here. I think it's a decent bet to put money on Burrow to win the MVP. I mean, I'm betting it when I get to Vegas here in a couple of weeks. It's like Casey and Cincinnati, there should be no debate. Now, Alex, do you see anything on that list that I might have messed up other than obviously the Jets being in tier two? And I can understand if people weren't. I saw that.

I was like, of course he went. I would possibly move the dolphins from tier three to tier two. Okay. They've got a decent amount of offensive weapons. Yeah. Which I think a lot's going to ride on Tua and if he can say healthy. and if we have another crazy head injury this season. But I think they have a lot of potential

and could be a sneaky team, which isn't really sneaky when you have as big as names as they do on their roster. And just for people who think I'm being super homerish, which is like, you are. You know, 93% of the audience. The Bengals and Chiefs stand out in Vegas. 11 and a half is a win total.

Nobody else in the AFC's that high. They are a cut above the bills. They have surpassed Buffalo, that being Cincinnati, of course. So I'm sorry, Bill's fans that you're not higher. The Homer and me has the Jets high. I'm already seeing my phone. I'm trying not to look at it, but my friends are like, Ravens need to be up one.

So sorry, but that's my AFC tiers. We'll do NFC tomorrow. I need to pivot here because there is some news coming in, Alex, on the Otani front. John Morosi, who's covered Major League Baseball Forever here at Fox and other places, he is saying that the Angels have communicated about Shohei Otani trade scenarios with other teams in recent days. Now, Alex, this stunned me right here. The Angels, despite winning 6 of 8, are at 9.6 percent baseball playoff odds predict. That's it?

They haven't made the playoffs since 2014, J-MAC. 9 percent. They haven't played a playoff game since 2014. I know, but aren't they only four games out? Of a wild card spot. there's like 60 games left and they have a 9% chance. But they don't have Mike Trout. They still don't have Mike Trout.

We don't know what's going to happen with Shohei Otani. And the past decade shows you like, okay, they've had guys. They've had big names and they still haven't been able to get the job done or win a playoff game. It's, I mean, already said it was funny because I think last week it was, no, we won't make a trade to the Dodgers. and then it came out, you know, if it's a great offer, maybe we will. It's going to have to be an offer that the angels cannot refuse for Shohei Otani. So that's, the NFL does this smart thing, Alex, where in like the offseason, like, March and April, every Monday they have like a news drop that is like crafted to drop it to reporters.

It pops. It dominates the headlines. Keeps the NFL on top. Yeah. So here we are on a Monday, middle of the day. We have a respected longtime reporter dropping news about Otani trade scenarios with eight days to go. Yeah. Listen, I'm not doubting Morosi.

He's very good. I've had him on my podcast, a radio show that I had. I wonder if this is the angels sending up a flag, a flare, if you will. Hey, everybody, eight days to go. We're in business. Talk to us. And the league has to love this. The mere fact that the best player in the sport could be on the move equals a lot more baseball.

talk. There's so many crazy scenarios that could happen here. Also, what if he gets traded to the National League from the American League? He is the clear MVP favorite in the American League. What happens if he goes over to the National League? I hadn't thought about that. Obviously, it becomes a lot harder. Ronald Cunia Jr.

right now in the National League is the favorite on the Braves to win MVP. But there's not much competition on the American League side. If he gets traded to the National League side, how does that affect his odds in that whole situation? Also, where are the angels willing to trade him? There's a lot of indivision that it could happen. Do you deplete someone's farm system knowing that he's not going to sign there and just kind of take him for all their worth knowing you're not going to get him, knowing he's not going to re-sign there?

There's a lot of different mind games that this situation could go. But at the end of the day, we don't even know if they're going to trade him. They might try to keep them. So this news that they've communicated trade scenarios. Not to get too conspiracy theorists, but what does that mean? They have communicated trade scenarios. Is that them talking? This is what we want. We want a major league player. We want top prospects.

It has to be number one, two, three prospects if you're going to make it happen. I mentioned it in the herd line earlier, but our MLB staff writers here at Fox Sports put together 12 possible mock trades for Shohei Otani and what each team would have to get up, give up just to get Shohei Otani. And it's like four to five to six guys. Big league players, prospects, who's willing to do that, who has the farm system and the depth in order to do that and still be able to be competitive. And a good thing for a couple of these teams, I would say maybe like a Yankees or like a Seattle if someone like that could get Otani

on loan right now as a rental, you can kind of court him and show him, hey, this is where we would like you to be. This is, again, think about it. You're going into a new organization with a new coach, new pitching coach, new chemistry, new vibe in the clubhouse and the dugout, and you want to feel comfortable.

So there's a lot of interesting scenarios I could have. The fam was able to secure Dodgers tickets for this coming weekend. Oh, good for you. It would be really nice if we could get Otani on board out here with the Dodgers. I think that it's top destination once he's a free agent. Well, wait, what about now, though? What about a good dog? If the angels are willing to trade for him, trade to the Dodgers.

If you were the Dodgers and, you know, everybody's showing interest, do you panic a little and say, you know, we don't want to risk it? let's just bring him on board. He's going to sign with us. Once we get him in the building, it's over. Game over, we got him. Let's just get him in the building now. Let's give up the prospects. Dodgers?

I think that's where he ends up, ultimately. Yeah. But I don't know about it in the trade. All right, coming up in hour three, why Sequin Barclay is the most important player on the Giants. Plus, T.J. Hushman Zata in studio. Probably loving the Bengals talk. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. guaranteed human.