The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 2 - Defending Caleb Williams, the worst idea in sports, the Vikings will have success, Tom Verducci

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

Danny Parkins pushes back against the harsh criticisms Bears quarterback Caleb Williams has faced and why he's in prime position for a breakout season The Big Ten floating the idea for a 24 or 28 team CFP, which is the stupidest thing Danny has ever heard Why JJ McCarthy and the Vikings should have success this season   Guest: Tom VerducciSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for The Herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Hour number two, The Heard. I'm Danny Parkins in for Colin Cowherd. Tom Verducci will join us later on this hour to discuss Brewer's hottest team or best team in baseball? I gotta say, whenever I sit in this chair for Colin,

it's just a pinch me thing, it's a complete honor, it's a privilege, it's a little surreal. But I don't know if I've ever looked forward more to a segment than this one, because while I've been waiting for first things to, first to come back and me to join, which will be Monday, I'll be on from five to six. I've just had to kind of sit on the sidelines

and watch a lot of this show and a lot of things we said about Caleb Williams that I cannot believe that I'm hearing and seeing. So we're gonna take some time here and I'm gonna try to level set the conversation. And yes, listen, everyone has biases, the people who admit their biases are the ones you can trust. I am.

A Bears guy from Chicago. Consider it disclosed. Caleb Williams was good last year. Anyone who watched every pass of every game, which I did, would tell you that he was not good enough. He was not as great as we thought he was going to be. But Caleb Williams was good. Best rookie quarterback, by the way, in Bears franchise history,

which I agree, the bar is on the floor. That's an easy one to clear. but it is still true. And the situation that hand up, I got wrong, I said it was the best situation and number one overall pick had ever walked into. I was dead wrong about that because how much of a disaster

the Matt Iber flew Shane Waldron coaching situation was, and we'll get to more of that in a second. But Caleb Williams was good. He wasn't great, but people talk about Caleb Williams like it's still possible that he could be a bust. Bust is off the table. He's good.

Let's start, there's the good, the bad, and the narrative. And I'll be fair, we'll start with the bad. The obvious bad, the worst of it, and there were a few, was 68 sacks. 68 sacks is an absurd number. 68 sacks is way too many. He did not fully trust what NFL open was he held onto the ball. He was afraid to throw interceptions. And so he would eat a sack as opposed to trusting his arm talent, trusting the route, trusting the play, did not play on schedule

enough. Sixty-eight sacks is unacceptable. He will always be a higher than average sacked quarterback because of how much of a big game hunter he is, because of how mobile he is, because he has that wizardry to do the second option off-angle throws, the improvisation. stuff, but 68 is obviously not sustainable. And then I think there was a legit concern based on what I knew and people that I talked to around the team that Caleb was trying to get by a little bit too much on just his raw natural talent and didn't have a complete understanding of what it took Monday through Saturday to be ready for Sunday.

And he was young, he was a rookie, wasn't a bad guy, wasn't unprofessional, just there's an adjustment of what you need to do to get ready for a college game and what there's what you need to do to get ready for a pro game and that learning curve was there for Caleb it was also certainly impacted by the coaching turnover so i think there was professionalism but really the sacks 68 sacks you can't win the good was he survived he was tough as hell he played all 17 games despite being sacked 68 times. He had a three and a half to one touchdown interception ratio, 20 touchdowns against only six picks.

He threw for over 3,500 yards. And he dealt with, everyone talks about the bad coaching, and it was bad. They fired Shane Waldron, his play caller, nine games into the season, and the Bears are a founding charter franchise in the NFL who had never fired a head coach in season in their history. And let me tell you,

Mark Tressman deserved. it, guy kicked the field goal on second down. They finally fired a coach in season because they feared a mutiny from the team because it got so bad in season last year. But that wasn't it. The offensive line situation that Caleb was dealing with, Matt Pryor, Tevin Jenkins, and Coleman Shelton all started 14 plus games. And if you're out there watching or listening being like, who are those guys? It's a totally reasonable thing for you to think. Coleman Shelton's going to start at center this year for the Rams on maybe the worst part of their team. They're very concerned that they're not going to be able to keep Matt Stafford healthy.

And Kevin Jenkins and Matt Pryor are now backups in Cleveland and Philly, respectively. And they all started 14 or more games for the Bears last year. So they were starting backups on the offensive line. They fired the coach. They fired the play call. And again, if you watched, there were moments of undeniable upside. Like right now in FS1, we're showing highlights from the Bills game. And I heard reactions to the Bills game being like, ooh, Caleb, look at the arm talent, look at the mobility, look at the zip on the ball, look at the accuracy. He's like, yeah, we saw it last year.

We didn't see it enough. We didn't see it consistently enough, but he was a rookie. And that's where I think the narrative piece is getting forgotten about last season. Because last season went off the rails for the Bears. More so, though, for the Bears than Caleb Williams. They lost 10 games in a row. And how they lost those games started to become so comical that, understandably, the Bears became a punchline.

The Bears lost a game to Washington on a Hail Mary, and the receiver who caught the ball, his man, Tyreek Stevenson, was literally talking to the crowd when the ball was snapped. Wasn't even paying attention. That's not on Caleb. Washington ended up in the NFC championship game. The Bears lost a game to Green Bay by one point on a blocked field. field goal, a 46-yard attempt where they sent to the league office that the pass rush by the Packers was illegal because they hit the long snapper over the ball.

Wasn't called, whatever it happens, missed call, but like that's a thing that happened. Lost that game by one. They hit that 46-yard field goal as time expires. They would have swept the season series against Green Bay because they beat them at Lambo to end the year. Green Bay was an 11-win team. Was it on Caleb Williams when they lost to Minnesota? The 14-win Minnesota Vikings, when Caleb threw for 340 yards and two touchdowns

and scored 27 points against Brian Flores' defense? Is that game on Caleb Williams? Because it feels like, well, it was just another loss in the midst of a 10-game losing streak. Okay, he took a sack in the possession of overtime that was not good. No doubt about it, but again, Brian Flores' defense, 14-win team, pretty good. 340 passing yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions, scored 27 points,

lost in overtime to the Vikings. And then everyone remembers the Thanksgiving game against the Lions where Matt Iberfluse forgot that he's the head coach and that you're allowed to call timeouts. They're four yards away from field goal range, would have sent him to overtime, they've got one time out. There's a sack that puts them out of field goal range. So you got to gain the five yards, call the time out, kick the field goal. There was confusion.

You would like Caleb to be more situationally aware in that spot. Again, a rookie. You'd like your coach to help out the player. There were 32 seconds left when he got sacked. They only ran one play the rest of the game. It was like he was playing out there with no coaches. So I think if they win two of those four games, and all of a sudden they are 7 and 10 instead of 5 and 12 with wins over the Vikings and the commanders.

In addition to their win at the end over the Packers, you're like, okay, 7 and 10, ups and downs, missed the playoffs, took too many sacks, coach got fired. Instead, it's, I don't know, is Caleb Williams an NFL player? They upgraded it right guard, center, left guard, coach, play caller. they used a top 10 pick on Colston Loveland, a tight end, and they used the top 40 pick on Luther Burden, a receiver, both of whom looked good in the preseason opener where the starters played against the bills. So last year should be the floor for Caleb Williams.

And by the way, everything that I've heard about Caleb from this year at camp, him and Ben Johnson, intense relationship, really taking well to hard coaching, true professional knows 100% of what it takes, and he's working his ass off to be great. So if the floor is 3,500 passing yards and a 3.5 to 1 touchdown interception ratio, and he upgraded 60% of his offensive line,

his head coach, his play caller, his tight end position, and his wide receiver group, why are we surprised that he let a touchdown drive against the bills in the preseason? It just, the discourse has just gone completely in the same. completely insane with the, oh, they're sitting him out. They're hiding him. They're afraid.

They prefer Tyson Beijing. Caleb Williams is good. Can still be great. And I think his ceiling is still MVP of the league and a Super Bowl champion at some point in his career. And I think people, frankly, have really lost the plot with Caleb Williams. And I look forward to seeing him build on year one in year two with Ben Johnson. should be a very exciting season and a very exciting next decade for Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears. Coming up next, Tom Verducci, one of the top voices in baseball.

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We've created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers...

This is how you guys remember it going to be. going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad,

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Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. Back in on the herd. I'm Danny Parkins, in for Colin. In just a little bit, discuss something as it relates to college football that I'm pretty sure no one in the pre-show meeting. Not a single person agreed with me on.

But, you know, such is life. It's the cross-side bear. But joining us now, terrific baseball reporter, long-time analyst for Fox, Tom Verducci. With us, you can see him on Fox Sports and the Ambleb Network. Tom, thank you so much for the time. And yes, the author of the terrific book, The Cubs Way, after the greatest season in baseball history. I am biased on that, but that's okay, the 2016 Cubs.

Tom, we'll stay in that division. The Brewers, they had a lot of brain drain. They lose their GM. They lose their manager. They lose some of their best players. They have a small payroll, yet they are, by the record, the best team in the sport. How do they do it?

Yeah, and people have to get used to that. Danny. They are the best team in baseball. Even if you don't know the names, you can't rattle off their starting infield or their secondary relief pitchers, but it's because they do so many things well. The finer points of the game, they're the best defensive team in baseball.

They steal bases, they bun. Yeah, that's still allowed in the game today, by the way. They're the best team with runners in scoring position. Their pitching staff is third in Major League Baseball. So they have no weakness unless you want to count power. Now, they don't hit a lot of home run.

There's 18th in the Major League Baseball in home runs. And that's the only thing when I look at Milwaukee, I say, what could hold them back in the postseason? Because you need to hit home runs in the postseason. In the last decade, there's only been the last team to finish in the bottom half of home runs was the 2015 Kansas City Royals. It's been a long time. Last five world champions all been between first and fourth in home runs.

That being said, they will not beat themselves. You know, what happened to the Yankees of the World Series last year? That ain't happening to the Brewers in an October series. So I don't know how much you follow the gambling and the odds. I love it. The odds makers have them as the fourth best team, fourth best chance to win the World Series, which seems to just spit in the face of what I've watched over the last two months. What do you make of the fact that they're still fourth, according to the odds makers?

Yeah, again, a lot of people don't believe it. they're not familiar enough with this team this is not the little engine that could one of the things i look at danny and when it comes to pitching in the postseason can you out stuff teams so i look at how do hitters do against your stuff in the zone because you can't pitch around guys in the postseason it's about pure stuff and the brewers are the third best team in baseball as far as limiting damage in the strike zone so the way woodruff has come back brandon woodruff the kid jacob jacob jacob nominated a game. Freddie Peralta, 15 game winner, may get 20, and that bullpen at the back end is just lights out with stuff. I'm talking about 100 mile an hour stuff. I don't think people

are plugged into enough that the brewers have some high-end talent on the mound, and it's not just about playing small ball. So the brewers have passed the Cubs in the division and built themselves a comfortable lead, even though the Cubs have the second-best run differential in baseball and are a very talented team, but they've been slumping for a while. Kyle Tucker has been brutal. Now they're saying that there's been an injury. PCA, his power has really dwindled for the last month and a half or so. Do you think the Cubs are faltering or do you consider them to be still dangerous?

I still think they're dangerous with an asterisk. And that is Kyle Tucker. You mentioned that with the finger. It's been now a couple of months now where he has not hit. There seems to be, if not a direct cause, a lingering issue. with that hairline fracture in the finger. Now, if he gets better and he's back to being the MVP candidate we saw in the first half of the season, yes, they're dangerous.

But he is such an important part of their offense. Overall, I love this team because like Milwaukee, they're very athletic. They play really good defense. They steal bases and hit home runs. But to me, I think they absolutely need Kyle Tucker to make a run through the postseason. So I'm not down on the Cubs. All credit to the Brewers for the run they've had to pull away. and the Cubs are not catching the Brewers.

But I think in a postseason environment, give me a healthy Kyle Tucker, and I'll take my chances with the Cubs. Let's stay in the National League. The Dodgers have gotten back into first place in the very competitive NL West. Do you view them because of their payroll as anything short of a World Series as a failure?

I think you do look at that way because the expectations are so high. Yes. Now, there's less, I would say, pressure on the Dodgers, themselves because they did win the championship last year. But because of the payroll and this pure talent on this roster, yes, you know, they're the odds on favorite, put it that way, in a field where it's pretty wide open, right?

I'm looking at this weekend, Danny, as a real pivotal point for the Dodgers. Not that they have to prove anything, but they're going into San Diego. And they've got Blake Snell, Tyler Glassnow, and Yamamoto pitching. Now, two of those guys, Snell and Glassnow, extended they kind of massage their way through this season with some injuries to get to this very point to have those guys

available to dominate a big game so if you're playing for the Dodgers we know it's about what have you done in October right not in July and June they're at that point now where it's put up or shut up these guys should be now healthy take the ball

three times through a lineup and dominate a game big test this weekend in San Diego Yeah, you mentioned it, and the game tomorrow is right here on FS1. TV executives in history will always say Yankees Red Sox best rivalry. I will be partial to Cubs Cardinals just from where I'm from. But I've got to be objective here. Dodgers Padres has become the best rivalry in baseball.

Do you expect more fireworks between the teams this weekend? Yeah, I do. First of all, the atmosphere in that ballpark is on any night. I mean, for a weeknight this week against the Giants, it was crazy. For the weekend against the Dodgers, look out. It's one of the best venues in baseball in terms of pure vibe. And there have been enough fireworks between these two teams that there is dislike among the teams, not just the fans. That's when you're talking about great rivalries.

And I think they generally play very competitive games. Now, if the game is close, I'm not going against San Diego's bullpen above anybody in baseball. but the Dodgers to me have a little bit the edge in the starting pitching. They're very evenly matched. I mean, I know the Dodgers swept them last week in Los Angeles, and I expect this weekend could be a completely different story. I love some of the deadline moves the Padres made. They're a deeper lineup than they had before the deadline with O'Hern and Luriano in there.

But yes, I think this is must see in terms of rivalries in baseball. It's become a really, really, one of the best hottest rivalries in baseball. How much do you think the Dodgers are going to have to rely on Shohei Otani the pitcher in October? That's a great question because he's got the chance or the skill to actually go out there and win a game by himself on the mound. I mean, he's not there yet in terms of being stretched out enough. But I think by the time we get to October, he should be. We've seen him now take the ball into the fourth and maybe the fifth inning. Otani is a guy with Ace stuff, so he can dominate a game.

The issue here is you have to be very careful with his usage, almost a little bit like Yamamoto, where the Dodgers will not use Yamamoto on four days of rest. It has to be at least five and generally six. Shoah will be in that same position. So to dominate a series might be very tough. But to go out there for one game, pick your spots, make sure he's on the sixth or seventh day.

I think by the time we get to October, I think the governors are off. I think Shoah can go out there and pitch a game, seven innings, no runs, one run, 10 punchouts. He definitely has that inning, and that's a guy who can really turn a series in one start. A few more minutes with Tom Verducci. The A.L. Wildcard race is very tight. We have Yankees Red Sox this weekend. I've talked to enough managers to know, like, there's no such thing as a big game. It's all one of 162 and day at a time.

But I feel like we're at the point in the calendar where they can't even get away with those cliches. How big of a series do you consider this weekend to be? Yeah, I think it's big, Danny, because I personally think that seating matters a lot, right? I know a lot of people say just get in. But to me, if I'm a manager, that first round wild card where I have to play entirely on the road, it's a scary proposition. And for me, Boston is such a really good home team. There's a different vibe there.

They just seem to play better. I mean, it seems like every other game at Fenway is a walk-off win for the Red Sox. There's something they've built there about playing at home that I think they would love to have in October. So I don't really buy the argument that just get us in. You know, if you're the third wild card and you're on the edge of maybe getting that last spot, sure, that's true. But I think you play for seating here. I really do. And there's not a lot of separation between these two teams.

I don't think there will be. the game last night, let's face it, the Yankees did not play a clean game. If you keep the Yankees in the ballpark as far as defending the home run, you've got a really good chance of beating them. And that's what the Red Sox did last night.

And by the way, I mean, if you haven't seen Roman Anthony play, you've got to watch this kid play for the Red Sox, man. 21 years old and he's playing like he's been in the big leagues for 10 years, walks in the Yankee Stadium, the Bleacher creatures are just killing them out there and right field, right? And like nothing, he goes out there, base hit the other way,

home run in ninth inning to the pole side, a little bit of a bat flip. I mean, that was just a cool moment. That was a welcome to the rivalry moment if I've ever seen one. So there's some big picture stuff too. Rob Manfred talking about both expansion and geographical realignment. What do you think in terms of like the macroeconomics, like the tectonic shifting of baseball, What do you think is fiction versus reality here? Well, this has been in the works for a while, Danny. Generally on the whiteboard is more opposed to really hard and fast ideas about how to realign. But they definitely want to get the 32 teams that make scheduling easier.

You're probably looking at four divisions of four teams. The question for me is, does this mean that the kind of traditional setup of American and National League either goes away or is extremely diminished. In other words, if you do want to realign geographically, would you put, say, the Yankees, the Mets, the Phillies, and the Red Sox in one division and just kind of throw away American and National League history? That's a big, bold step to make.

Now, it makes sense logistically, but as you know, one of the great things about baseball is its history. And I understand we're moving farther and farther away from those kinds of things in the game. and younger fans especially get used to it. But I'm curious as to whether that's the road Major League Baseball wants to go down, or they still want to keep a bit of the history and realign geographically,

but keep sort of the integrity of the leagues intact. That's a bold step. Let's face it, though, Danny, we're not talking about anything on the immediate horizon. This would be sometime in the early 2030s probably by the time two cities are picked, and things get realigned. But it's definitely in the discussion phase. how would it work though to use that example Yankees, Matt's, Phillies, Redstocks, big market teams, big spending teams

and then another division proposal that I saw was like Tampa, the Marlins, an expanded Nashville team and the Braves. Like one division would probably have what, four, five X the payroll of another division in that scenario? Yeah, that's where the devil the details are in. Like, what's your postseason format? What are the qualifications? If you win your division, are you automatically seated at all or even high? I don't know, but it would seem to me that you'd have to seat a straight, like, you know, one through six kind of seating regardless of where you finish in your division.

You could have a fourth place team being the fourth seat, if that is possible. I'd love to know what the idea is there. I get the, what Rob Manfred has talked about for years is that his classic example, if the Red Sox play the Angels in the postseason, right? You're going to have one fan base that's disadvantaged. Either Red Sox fans are watching a game at 10 o'clock at night, or you're still at work on the West Coast watching a 7 o'clock game from Fenway Park. So he wants to work against that and schedule more even playoff games around geographical lines.

So again, devil in the details. I'd love to see what the postseason format is because that could be a real game changer of the game. Like we think it's a little complicated now in terms of getting in. I'd love to know what the format would be in the postseason, not just, hey, we're going to rely on geographical boundaries. Best selling author, terrific reporter, and a baseball analyst here for us at Fox. Tom Verducci. Thank you so much, Tom.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Danny. Thank you. That's Tom Verduci with us talking baseball. We'll get back into the Micah Parsons situation as we move Danny Parkins in for Colin. But coming up next, truly one of the worst ideas I've ever heard was proposed. I think I have a better one, though it would involve going back in time. That's coming up, The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the ihard radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, oh, we were thinking, I'm a, or, Originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you do.

hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night,

a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind

the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls,

we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsLice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelive

12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win.

I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat. to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. ...first starts on Monday when I'll be on FS1 every day from 5 to 6, and we'll talk more Micah Parsons and Jerry Jones and the stalemate that apparently won't end, although there is a game coming up on September 7th and sneaking suspicion that it'll be over by then. But we'll see. I saw an idea that was floated, not by a message board, not by a blog, not by a random person in my mentions on YouTube or Instagram or Twitter, but apparently by a Big Ten official was the sourcing behind it. And it was apparently the same type of idea that had been reportedly suggested at SEC coaches meetings, which was that, you know,

we got to think of big ideas, college football season, week zero, it's this week, that the college football playoff should maybe be expanded to 24 or 28 teams. And I thought to myself about that scene and office space, about the jump to conclusions, Matt, is the worst idea I've ever heard. Yes, it's a truly awful, terrible idea. You ever hear an idea that's so bad that it scares you a little bit? Because you're like, these people, they walk among us. A 2018 college football playoff with the Big Ten and the SEC both getting six, seven automatic bids, is a truly awful, terrible, no good, very bad idea.

Let's just hypothetically for a moment think about what that would potentially mean last year. That means Colorado with four losses as him. Oh, yeah, well, that would have been interesting for television networks, right? Shador, Sanders, Travis, on her. Okay, maybe you're fine with that. That would have meant that Alabama with four losses would have been in. Okay, Alabama, roll damn died. LSU with four losses would have been in.

And maybe you're just sitting there nodding. like, yeah, it would been great. Put them in. You guys wanted Iowa? You wanted eight and five Iowa to make the college football playoff last year? Because they would have been in under this hypothetical scenario. And listen, I fully admit that I am addicted to football and I will watch football and I cannot wait for Texas and Ohio State.

And I think that Clemson's defense is going to be like those title defenses under Dobbo. and I think that they are going to be at least making the semifinal, if not the national championship. And I cannot wait to, you know, see Nussmeyer and Aller and Archmanning and see who emerges as the top quarterback. And I'm addicted to it. More of a pro guy than college, but I love college too. It's all great. If football's on, I will be watching. And I know that's why more, more, more, bigger, bigger, more games, more games, more games.

We're going to watch it. Feed us our addiction. I get it. I just want the regular season to matter. That was what, to me, was so special about college football. The regular season really mattering. Last year, Ohio State as the eighth seed wins the national championship. All right.

Lose to Michigan, lose to Oregon, still make the playoff as the eighth seed, run the table, win the title. In my world, Ohio State should have not gotten that chance. And I know we cannot put this toothpaste back in the tube. But for me, four was enough. There was not a team that had presented an argument outside of the top four that had ever said, we deserve a shot at the belt. We deserved a shot at the national championship. Back in the BCS era, when it was just two, while I thought the debate was compared to,

compelling and it made college football like this weird combination of the NFL and the Olympics where it was like they got to play the games but then there's also judging and it's arbitrary and there's an eye test and it was messy and weird like it wasn't perfect but it was kind of charming in a way um you know oh four auburn had a legit gripe in the bcs era uh i thought oh one oregon had a legit gripe in the bc s era but for the most part i thought we got the teams that ultimately deserved it, but expanded out to four, that Auburn situation would have been taken care of, the Oregon situation would have been taken care of. I never saw a terribly compelling case for a team 5, 6, 7, 8. And now people are going to keep pointing to Ohio State

last year winning the title. And that's fine, but I just worry that if the inevitability of this is bigger, bigger, bigger, more, more, more. Because no one thinks we're stopping with 12, it'll go to 16, and then when it goes to 16, is it going to go to 20? Is it going to go to 24? Is it going to go to 28? We're going to reach a point where the regular season,

it will always matter to the fans of the teams, because they're your biggest thing, right? like Michigan is the biggest thing in Ann Arbor. So it's always going to matter to Michigan fans. But if every year I watch the Iron Bowl, I know that both Auburn and Alabama are going to make the college football playoff for a non-Auburn or Alabama fan,

that would inherently take away some of the value of watching Auburn and Alabama. Now, it would not for an Auburn fan or an Alabama fan, but for the casual fan, if you water down the meaning of the result of the regular season, I think you're running into a situation where at some point bigger is not going to be better. And Michigan, Ohio State last year is an unbelievable game,

and Michigan wins. And then Ohio State gets to go on and win. the national championship, when it was their second loss, there's something too. Like, huh, man, back in the day, not that long ago, sorry Ohio State, you're out. Now that clearly is not going to be the case. And Ohio State fans should be thrilled that it wasn't the case for them last year, obviously, and they were a deserving champion for how they ran through the playoff. And I understand these are the rules that are out there. But there is something to the greed is good mantra and the bigger and bigger this thing gets, I worry that at some point

you're going to hit a tipping point, not that people are going to stop watching. That's clearly not going to happen. We're going to watch however you give it to us. But that you're going to take what made college football real special in the interest of trying to recreate March Madness. If you have a 2018 playoff, how many regular season games do we even have? If each conference, the big ones have six, seven, eight automatic

bids, and then the, you know, the ACC and the Big 12 have three or four automatic bids. Why do those games matter? Now conference championships don't matter. You just run the risk of watering down a product. Like, in my America, I'm the czar of everything, which, you know, maybe I'll run for it. Who knows?

Sorry, Notre Dame. I know you ended up in the national championship game last year, you lost in Northern Illinois. Sorry. Play in a big bowl game. But clearly, I'm in the minority. Clearly no one who works with these conferences agrees with me. And I understand, more games on football will watch. But I just, when I see that the idea is the end result could be a 2018 playoff and no conference championship games and damn near over. a third of your conference will get automatic bids into the playoffs, then what does the week four game even mean if that's where we're going?

We're not there yet, but 24 or 28 teams, I do think there should be big flashing red lights like caution, caution, but you do not get too greedy for the playoff and then you're ultimately going to devalue your product in the regular season. But I'll be there. K-State, Iowa State, week zero, let's go. Texas, Ohio stayed in a week, let's go. I'll be there. NFL starts up a couple of weeks from now,

and I was thinking about it because, you know, I've been monitoring how these teams have been handling their preseason. And J.J. McCarthy, you know, national champion in college, right? He is not going to play, it doesn't sound like, in the final preseason game for the Minnesota Vikings. and I have no problem with it. I would much rather my team do the Sean McVeigh route than the Andy Reid route. Andy Reid plays his guys.

He risks the injury. They start fresh. Sean McVeigh doesn't play his guys. He rests. I'd sit everybody because football is just a game of injury. You saw Derek Harmon get injured for the Steelers, their first round pick. Massive loss to the Steelers run defense. But J.J. McCarthy is going to basically have thrown seven passes,

and then we're going to see him start for a team that won 14 games last year with a team that absolutely rightfully believes, despite what prognosticators, talking heads, and odds makers suggest, they believe that they can win the Super Bowl. With Kevin O'Connell as the head coach and Brian Flores and the defensive coordinator and their offensive line and their skill position group, they absolutely believe that they can win the Super Bowl. and while I do not believe that they can win the Super Bowl this year,

I do believe that J.J. McCarthy is the answer for them at quarterback, which sets up a very interesting potential, like called like a secondary storyline for this NFL year, which is the 2024 draft class, I believe, is going to be looked at as a historically successful one. it might not be the best draft class ever like it might not be the L.A. Marino Cali the 83 draft class and we'll see how it ends up stacking up to the 2020 draft class but where I think it will make history is that they are going to go they being the NFL it feels like they are going to go six for six

on first round picks signing second contracts with their teams. I believe that every team that drafted a quarterback in the first round last year is happy with their selection. Now they might redo the order, right?

Jade and Daniels would probably go first based on how he went last year. I understand that. Bo Nix would maybe go in front of Michael Pennix based on how he went last year. But the Bears are happy with Caleb. Obviously the commanders are thrilled with Jaden. The Patriots are happy with Drake May, who passes the eye test in a number of ways.

Bo Nix looked like he couldn't play football the first four games of last year. By the end of it, he has the second most passing touchdowns for a rookie in NFL history and is in the postseason. Michael Pennix plays three games for the Falcons and unlocks the offense in a way that while his numbers were not spectacular, only three passing touchdowns, like Bejohn Robinson, Drake London, downfield passing, yards per play. It looked a lot more potentially explosive. They used those first-round picks on Pitts and Bejohn and London, and then they finally get a quarterback who's willing to throw the ball down the field. And then there's J.J. McCarthy, who I know that there is some doubt and some skepticism over because he suffered the injury. He didn't throw a ton in college,

and we haven't seen him do it in the NFL, but there's a group of coaches that get the benefit of the doubt. Andy Reed gets the benefit of the doubt. Mike McVeigh gets the benefit of the doubt. Mike Tomlin from a lot of people gets the benefit of the doubt. Sean McVeigh, obviously.

I think Matt LeFleur with how Jordan Love has looked has entered into that conversation. But Kevin O'Connell should be right there also. if Kevin O'Connell can get Kirk Cousins to throw for nearly 5,000 yards, and then they can move on from him. And then he can get Sam Darnold to throw for 4,500 yards and 30 touchdowns and win 14 games and have Sam Darnold in a position to get a $100 million contract. And then they can move on from him. And they trade it up.

I know they just traded up one spot, but still, they trade it up to drive it up to drive. draft J.J. McCarthy. Kevin O'Connell, through his actions, is telling you that I believe that J.J. McCarthy is better than both Sam Darnold and Kirk Cousins. And even though I have not seen him play in the NFL other than the seven preseason passes, I'm inclined to believe him. And so there has been no draft class in NFL history that has ever had six guys signed a second contract with the team that drafted him.

The class of Burrow and Herbert and Tua and Love and Hertz is the record, the 2020 class that had five guys sign second contracts with the team that drafted him. Who's the one that you would doubt the most to get a second contract out of that class? Jaden a lock Bo Nix playoffs year one a lock we're going to talk to Robert Mays next hour smart of an NFL guy as there is

Chicago based Bears fan I know he's got some doubts on Caleb and I know second but I think he would still even say that Caleb is a lock to get it because listen second contract doesn't mean that you're great Daniel Jones got a second contract with the Giants Trevor Lawrence got a second contract

with the Jaguars but we talk so much about it's so hard to scout the position and there's such a high bust rate. I think the NFL in these teams, Falcons, Patriots, Bears, Broncos, commanders, and Patriots, I think they're going to go six for six with no busts, six for six with quarterbacks who get second contracts. And it's a thing we've never seen before. And I know the doubt is on McCarthy, but Kevin O'Connell deserves more benefit of the doubt than any of the guys leading any of those other quarterbacks. Coming up, our number three of the herd. The aforementioned Robert Mays. The bear, Chris Felica will be here. We'll try

to make some money together. But there's a ton of nonsense coming out of Dallas. I try to translate. What does it mean? Next, the herd. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being an ask question. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring you. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is. Getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is. Getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akila Hughes. And Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about. both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant

that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit season two on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.