The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - Drafting in the NBA

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

Kevin Clark from The Ringer joins the show to discuss Colin's point about the NFL's most disappointing team and how they got to this point after dominance in the 90s The difficulty of the NBA draftSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's a Wednesday. I got a big dentist appointment today. Like one of those were in the chair for two and a half hours. Oh, I dread it. I love my dentist, but awful. What are you getting a crown or something? No, I got, you know, no, it's just, I mean, he's done a great job. Best dentist I ever had.

But, you know, he's got to get some stuff done. We've got to change a crown a little bit. Oh, two and a half hours in a chair. Numbing? It's just no. Oh, yeah, numbing. I hate that. So you know, in L.A., when you're in the dentist chair, they have TVs with, like, Netflix and stuff. Yeah.

You're going to watch anything? Anything lined up? Oh, yeah, they have it. A lot of times I just ask for, like, soothing music, like, put on a screen. Like, this guy's good, though. This guy has, my cleaning's last 15 minutes. He's got, like, uh... Maybe that just means you're good at brushing and flossing. Well, not really. I think I brush a lot. Flusing is, whatever. The point being is, uh, he's, they, use lasers on my cleaning. So they do a bunch of laser stuff and it's fantastic. I saw Lawrence Fishburn, famous guy and George Hamilton at my dentist. Very bougie. Wow, that's exciting.

Also, should I be prepared to jump into the chair tomorrow in case the dentist is? If I call you like for water's leaking out of the side of your mouth. By the way, can I ask you a quick question on flossing? Do you keep floss on the counter or in the cabinet? Because cabinet. Okay, so do you always remember to floss? No. Exactly. So you'd need to keep it on the counter. And this is an ongoing argument I have with, you know, the ball and chain. And I'm like, if it's in the cabinet, it's out of sight, it's out of sight, out of mind. So I like my stuff on the counter. The bed's going to be out of sight for you tonight after you called her a ball and chain. You'll be on the couch tonight. I don't think she is. I know. You can get away with a lot on this show because my wife's never listened to it. She texted you about the us go to a Laker game. What are you talking about? One time. She doesn't listen to it. know what city she's in today or no? I think so. I think she's in the Rocky Mountain region. Rocky Mountain. So I saw this. The Blazers are pursuing Bam at Abayu to get Damian Lillard.

Bam at Avivu can play high level, both ends of the floor, really good defensive player. I thought he had a nice playoff run. And a lot of people, I've said, I think it's kind of time to break up the Dame thing. But I understand Portland looking at Damon saying he's great now. Paul George and Bamadabayu are really good now. and there are rumors this morning about both of those players. And the Portland Trailblazers have three first round picks, including the third pick, and they also have two really talented kids.

So they could do a deal with two different teams and get a couple of different players. They've got, you know, this league is getting younger. I don't think Miami wants a bunch of kids, and I don't think they want to give up Bam out of Bayou, but I do think the Clippers would be willing to move off Paul George. He and Kauai, it's not working. It's not getting better. It's going to get worse because they're never healthy. But it is interesting.

the NBA draft is tomorrow, and it's a much tougher draft than the NFL draft. The NBA draft, you get one year of footage. That's it. I mean, in college, how many times will a college player play against an NBA player? Once or twice? It's also a global sport, so there's a big map to cover. I've talked to NFL GMs that say you could take 60 to 70% of your players from the SEC and be a playoff team. Like there's one part of America to really scout.

Basketball's the globe. So if you go back a decade to the Janus draft, he went 15th. He's easily the best player in that draft. The number one pick in that draft, Anthony Bennett was a total bust. Number seven, Ben McLemore didn't do much. Top 10s all rotational guys, mostly, mostly. If you go back a decade ago, only Anthony Edwards is the only number one pick. who is unquestionably the best player in his class.

The NBA draft is a really, really, really, really highly educated guessing and crossing your fingers that players solve their issues. Because since Magic Johnson in 79, there's only been 10 number one picks who didn't really come in with some red flag. So you have to go back in the NFL draft 15 years to find a number one bust, Jamarcus Russell. and Lane Kiffin told me after that pick that he begged Al Davis not to take him. Lane's like, this is going to be a huge step back for my career and your franchise.

So the coach didn't want to take him. You have so much footage. It's a domestic league. You have three and four and sometimes five years of footage. If you, I, you go back to these drafts. It is amazing that the number one pick is only. almost never the best player. So Janice was the best player in his draft 15th, Yokic 41st, Booker 13th, Jalen Brown and

Tateham both third, Luca third, John Morant second, Anthony Edwards won. And Anthony Edwards is a really, really talented kid. Now, Paulo Bancaro, last year, number one pick for Orlando, looks really, really good. But it's a year. Let's let it unfold for two or three years. So half the rookies on the all-NBA team last year, half of the all-rooky team last year was drafted outside of the top 10. It is a lot of, he's tall, he's athletic, he can't shoot.

We don't know if he's a leader. Is he a good communicator? He's really thin. It's a lot of red flags and a lot of stuff to correct. So I look at Portland with Bamadabayu and Paul George rumors this morning. And I think to myself, I get it. I mean, I get it. Give away your number three pick.

You got a couple picks. Move them up. Get to 23. You have no idea. Draymond Green's arguably best defensive player ever, second round. Yokic, best player in the league, second round. Now, that's really unique. There's a lot of players in this league drafted like somewhere between 11 and 21 who end up being really elite players.

So I get what Portland's doing. I'd sniff around. They got a lot of draft picks. They got a couple young players. I'd move them. I get it. And I think they could. Depends. I think the Clippers is the team to watch with Portland.

All right, Kevin Clark, NFL writer, The Ringer, host of the Slow Newsday videocast. By the way, it should be noted. Drafting is hard, period. By the way, it's hard. General manage, I mean, Bill Belichick struggles to get offensive players. Like, it's really hard for everybody. But I do think the NBA is uniquely difficult, global sport, one year of video for kids, and everybody's a little squirley at 19, 20 years old.

So the Sean Payton stories are coming out with Russell Wilson. And I did think it was something, Kevin, that not only did he fix the offensive line, but that Russell Wilson is losing weight. Because I sat on these chairs with Sean and he kept saying, why isn't he running? I don't understand. That's his secret sauce. What are reasonable expectations?

Russell Wilson Bronco, Sean Payton, year one. Well, they'll run plays, which is an upgrade from Nate Hackett last year. I think that there was just, it just wasn't a scheme fit last year. They hired Nate Hackett in order to get Aaron Rogers. They didn't get him. Russell holds onto the ball too long for what Nate Hackett wanted to do with the sort of timing and quick game stuff. It just wasn't a fit. Sean Payton is one of the best coaches of his generation.

It's really incredible. I was doing some research about the best franchises in football over the past decade. And you see the Saints winning basically more games than all but one or two teams over a decade, over a 15-year period. That's all Sean Payton. We talk so much about ownership and GM and coaching and how it all us to work together. Sean Payton changed that franchise. We don't talk enough about the miracle that he worked there. And so offensively, I'm expecting a lot. I'm expecting credibility. I'm expecting him to be able to problem-solve better than basically anybody in football. I think there are very, very few people I think who could look at that situation and say,

I'm going to fix this in year one. Sean Payton is one of those guys. And so I think it's going to be a huge upgrade. I think they play in the wrong division to have a huge, huge turnaround. But I do think that they're going to be in the mix for playoffs, which relative to last year is a bit of a miracle. So the Stefan Diggs drama in Buffalo feels substantial. So I had a coach, Leslie Frazier, respected, just say, I'm going to take a year off. What? That doesn't really happen. The Ken Dorsey meltdown. The awful performance against Cincinnati. Stefan Diggs now unhappy. I mean, that's weird. Like, this is something, right?

I can't just blow this off, right? Didn't you have a sit down with Josh Allen? I did. I talked to Josh for a show that came out this morning, actually. I will say the breaking news is that Josh revealed that Aaron Rogers takes his FaceTime calls, which is not true of everybody. So that's some late breaking news that Aaron takes Josh's calls. But I think that, first of all, Josh called Stefan Diggs, the best receiver in the game.

I don't think that was unintentional. I think that he's trying to show him love right now. And I do think that there gets to be a problem sometimes, like the Pat Riley, disease of me, disease of more, whatever you want to call it. Normally that comes after you win titles. And people start saying, okay, I want more credit for this. I want more money. I want a bigger role, all that stuff.

The bill skipped the title part. And that's what's worrying to me is that there's a lot of pressure on a lot of people this year. Because the miracle that was in Buffalo over the past five years, like there's an expiration date on exceeding expectations. Shaw McDermott is a really good coach. Josh Allen exceeded all expectations that were placed on him even as a top five pick in the NFL draft. Nobody expected this sort of leap. But you're in this situation where you should be in the mix for a Super Bowl every single year,

and everybody's wondering when you're going to make that leap. Going from good to great in the NFL is really, really, really hard. And right now, the AFC quarterbacks are so stacked that I don't even know. It's like a golf major, right, where there's 15 people who should reasonably win every single week. John Rom or Colin Moracow or Justin Thomas or whomever. And so with the AFC quarterbacks right now, it's a bad time to be an AFC team with a lot of pressure on you. And that's what the bills are. And this could go south very quickly if they don't come out and start five and one, six and one. You don't know where the blame is going to go if things go south

this year. So I'm intrigued to see it. I think they'll figure it out. But I do think that there's a lot more pressure in Buffalo than maybe we anticipated relative to the last couple of years. So I read a story in the Atlantic. And I forget who. who wrote it, but it was about how our brains work. And we tend to remember only the good times from the past, but we're attracted to negativity in real time now. That's why we can't, you know, a lot of people say, I can't stop looking at my mentions, and you're like, it's horrible.

Turn that up. People can't. And I said, we look at Stafford with the Rams and Brady with the Bucks, and we remember the trophy. We don't remember that the Bucks got a huge break. They were seven and five. They couldn't get it together by week. and then they played like Atlanta, Detroit, interim coaches, and they got it right and got healthy.

We forget that Stafford in the middle of the year. That thing was Stars Everywhere. It was a mess. And then they got Von Miller and they got OBJ and they got right. And you're like, oh. So Aaron didn't pick his teams. He was traded to the Jets, a team that outside of a great corner and a pass rush, I got a defensive coach, I got a wonky O line.

I'm crossing my fingers on the running back. I think we're looking at Stafford and Brady and we're forgetting they got breaks with offensive coaches. It was turbulent. It was hard. Again, what do you expect from the Jets, Sala,

Rogers, and that team with mostly young, inexperienced stars? Yeah, and listen, there's a lot of comparisons you can make between the bucks then. and the Jets now. Young, fast defense, waiting for a quarterback at deep threats on the outside.

I mean, remember, they had Mike Evans in Tampa. I mean, it wasn't like it was a barren wasteland by any means. The Bucks were a quarterback away, and the Jets were a quarterback away from contending, not the Super Bowl, but from contending. And so I'm expecting a playoff spot. I mean, Dallas Gardner was on my show a couple weeks ago and said making the playoffs will be easy. You clarify later on Twitter means easier, but he meant easy. Let's be clear.

And so I think that you just, anybody but Zach Wilson could have made the playoffs last year. I mean, it was just a disaster last year. And so what I'm expecting is 10, 11 wins. And then as you said, a couple of breaks, a couple of breaks because the AFC is first of all stacked. Health is important. Aaron Rogers is the type of age where you get a lingering injury and it doesn't go away. By the way, the Brett Farthing, talking about veteran quarterback's going somewhere, the Brett Farthing in New York was working for half of the season.

Then he picks up an injury and the dolphins get a hindering. and then it's over in week 17. I know what with the do-or-die playoff game. So so much of this comes down to December luck, turnover stuff, one or two plays. So I'm assuming to be in the mix to sort of sort of the second tier of AFC contenders, I'm not expecting a huge leap, but you're totally right.

There's going to be turbulence in the first half of the season. And whether or not Rogers wants to overcome that, whether he's healthy enough to overcome that. He looked really bad on some of his deep throws last year. He did not look like himself. There's a reason that the Packers were eager to move off of him. And so I'm expecting certainly better than Zach because you or I or J-MAC could be better than Zach Wilson.

But I also think that there's, it's not a sure thing by any means. The floor is a lot lower than I think Jets fans are anticipating right now. Okay, I got to show you this. I hope you can see this. We brought this on earlier. I saw this on the internet when I got up this morning, and I just, my eyes couldn't, I didn't know what to make of it. It was since 2000, the number of playoff wins in the NFL.

And as you'd expect New England, it's a lot of really, really quality the organizations, New England, Philly, Baltimore, Steelers, Packers, and then you got Peyton Manning, Colts, Mahomes, and then you go to the bottom, and you see, yeah, kind of the dregs, right? Lyons, whatever, Washington. Dallas is it four, meaning DAC has the same number of playoff wins as Blake Bortles since 2000. And so I looked at this and I'm like, is that bad, Colin?

I'm like, that's with Romo and DAC, well-funded, free agents love Dallas. What do you make of that? Do I just blame Jerry? Well, there's one through line from the past 23 years, Colin. I mean, I couldn't wow.

So there's a couple of things. Number one, I do think that Jerry does not appreciate the modern game. You see that in highly values running back sometimes and even some of his comments about how the offense should run, should run through Zeke in the past, all that stuff, not understanding sort of the Tony Pollard. situation. How he hires coaches, he gives bad coaches too long of a runway, guys who just

don't understand modern schemes. Jason Garrett was there forever. I, you know, I just think that even Kellan Moore, you think about a guy who's actually a pretty good offensive coordinator. He was still running a lot of Linnehan Garrett concepts last year. And we're talking about routes that don't lead to explosive plays. I think they were in the 20s in explosive plays last year with an offense that shouldn't be like that when you look at the personnel. They have the bones of a good team every year. They always have a good offensive line. They always have a quarterback and they always have at least talent and fast defenders. They should be better than they are. I think that it starts, obviously, with Jerry picking the wrong coaches year after year. Mike McCarthy, I honestly can't

even believe he's still there. Sometimes I feel I look at guys and they almost seem pre-fired to me, where it's like, okay, you're just hanging around to be fired. That's Mike McCarthy to me. It's not going to work there long term. And I just think that, unfortunately, Jerry's tendency is to hire a guy like Mike McCarthy when they fire Mike McCarthy. So it's frustrating that they haven't been able to sort of turn it over to one guy, in the co-a-a-jimmy Johnson and say, this is yours. And he's never going to do it again. We saw what happened 25 years ago with Jimmy Johnson. It's just the way Jerry operates. It's frustrating. But it's just, it's the way he wants to run it. And, you know, one thing somebody told me early on in my NFL career, NFL reporting career, I think about

a lot is the first step towards winning a Super Bowl is wanting to win a Super Bowl. And that sounds simplistic. But when you think about, you know, prioritizing winning, prioritizing, you know, getting rid of mistakes as soon as you possibly can, all of these things, I don't know if winning comes first in Dallas. And I go to the training camp sometimes in California, and you'd see the head coach, and he's got to go over and talk to some CSI actor afterwards. And it's just like, what is this? This is not happening in New England. England. This is not happening in Kansas City where it becomes so Hollywood and it becomes so corporate and all that stuff. It just seems like a different environment at the star during

these practices that maybe winning the Super Bowl was not the number one goal of the organization, even though they always have really good players and really good seasons. Yeah, I always feel about the Cowboys every year. They'll be pretty good. And those teams don't win the Super Bowl. Kevin Clark, the ringer, he's got an interview with Josh Allen, listen to it. You can smell football in the air. It's getting close. Great seeing you, man. By the way, you bet. I put something up early. It was kind of confusing to me and probably you.

Where I put up, I went back to the Yonis draft class. So I think J. Mack, it was confusing. I got confused by it. Forget the scoring part. What I'm saying about the draft in the NBA is how often the best or second best player in the draft is not the number one pick. You just don't have that much footage. You just don't know. They're developing their kids.

So if you go back to the Yannis class until the 2020 class, only once has the number one player, been the first pick, Anthony Edwards. Now, John Morant was the second pick, and I don't know if that thing is going to last. But Janus 15th, Yokic 41st, Booker 13th, Brown Tatum 3rd, Luca 3rd. Yeah, so I just think, now I'm not saying every time in the NFL, your number one picks the best player. But in the NFL, it's hard. I mean, Baker Mayfield was not a bust.

He got to the playoffs. He was not a bust. I wouldn't have drafted him number one. I wouldn't have drafted James Winston number one. They weren't busts. I mean, Marcus Russell was a bust, and nobody wanted him outside of Al Davis. But I think the NBA drafts really hard. I think Victor Weniama is a very, very, very rare.

About every six, seven years, you get a guy at Anthony Davis, a LeBron, an Akeem, whatever it is, Duncan, David Robinson. and you're like, yeah, no red flags. The fourth player in this draft, Amon Thompson, people like, is basically a guard that has bad mechanics, can't shoot. Super athletic, but he's a guard that can't shoot. Like, if you were a power forward that couldn't shoot or a center, but a guard that can't shoot, that's what they said about Ben Simmons, Markell Fultz,

and they never corrected it. By the way, Westbrook, the knock was coming in. He's an hyperathletic guard, can't really shoot. John Wall can't really shoot. Derek Rose, not a great shooter. They never became great shooters. So if a guard can't shoot, it's a concern. He's number four in the draft.

And by the way, if you watch his highlights on YouTube, hella talented, not even denying that. How about this? Jabari Smith went third to Houston. Did you hear his name once all season? He was irrelevant. Didn't do anything. But Keegan Murray goes forth to Sacramento. They're a playoff team, and he's a starter for a lot of games.

But he also joined good players. A good player. It's not like they had made the playoffs or anything. No, but they're good, good stable group of top players. Drafting fourth for a reason. And then Christian Brown, who goes to Denver late, is like integral in the playoffs, like, basically won a finals game for them with like a massive second half. You have a guy, you're big into this.

Is there a guy in the draft that'll go below 10 or around 10 that you like? Like Kobe Buffkin at Michigan, a lot of people are into him. He's what, like, he's a teenager. I don't see it. So I just set my final mock draft to Fox Sports. Who is the player that you think will be the best player drafted a little later? Because you're good at this stuff. NBA draft, I don't follow as much.

I mean, because there's about three impactful guys. That's it. Well, impactful now, because like you said, young guys don't win in the league. Prime example. Our current dynasty is the Warriors, and they still made the playoffs. Draymond, Wiggins, Steph, Clay. It's all old guys. I mean, by the way, the Celtics and the bucks were really good.

Janus, Drew Holiday, Middleton, Tatum. Tatum's not young. He's been in the league six years. Yeah. I mean, he's 25, which is young. young in the championship. But he's been playing for six years. Like none of these kids have an impact.

I mean, Anthony Edwards, they're moving pieces all over in Minnesota. Year two, I think Joe Burrow got to. No, year three, Joe Burrow gets to the Super Bowl, right? Jacksonville gets Trevor Lawrence second year. They're a mess. They have to get a new coaching staff in the AFC. He wins a playoff game. So if you want the guy, I'm higher on than market.

Again, the way I look at these players is it's not what you were in college. it's what you can be. Okay. There's a kid on Yukon, Jordan Hawkins, who you could see in the NCAA tournament. Damn, anytime he got the ball, he could take someone and shoot. Yeah.

But in that system, they had limited his touches, similar to what happens in Kentucky. Yeah. This kid Jordan Hawkins can shoot the lights out. Yes. And there's some talk that maybe he falls to Golden State, in which case, he's coming off the bench and scoring.

I would take him in the lottery. A lot of other teams aren't because, you know, these guys who are 18 and 19, they're like, oh, they can be awesome in four years, whereas Hawkins is more of a finished product. he's been around for a minute. So I like Jordan Hawkins a lot. I think he can be a contributor instantly on like a good team.

Well, and that's interesting. So if you're Golden State with veteran players, they tried on Wiseman, who had a huge ceiling but not ready now. Didn't work, same with Cumminga. So if you're a Golden State, you want everything to be on Steph Curry's timeline. So for them, if I'm Golden State, where are they picking?

19th, I believe. If I'm Golden State at 19, would you rather take a kid like you're suggesting, who's got a lower ceiling, much more finished product, because he could come off the bench and play now. That's what Denver just did. Okay. That's Christian Brown from against.

And they said, this kid is athletic enough. He can play minutes now. He's never going to be a great player. There's people that we think project. So I do think the, like in the NFL, you generally just take best player. Who's the best available player?

You're not, you know, the ceiling stuff, maybe if a guy's really got a huge ceiling, he's probably not going in the seventh round. But in the NBA draft, I do think there's a real argument because these guys all come out as teenagers that if you're a good team, if you're the Celtics, a 19-year-old's not going to get on the floor. No. Go get a kid with a little less ceiling that can come in.

There's a player for Baylor. He's a guard for Baylor. He's not highly athletic, but he can shoot. Keante George? Yeah. Is that the guy you're talking about? Yeah, I went and looked last night, and it's like, you know, he's, I remember watching him play. He's not

super athletic, but he's smooth and he's got a beautiful shot. Like, I can see a veteran team saying he can play for us next year. You want a guy who can contribute now. You don't want to, like, the Golden State Warriors aren't babying somebody. They try that. Like you said, even with Kaminga. It's like, I mean, he couldn't, did he

get on the floor at all against the Lakers? No, I don't think so. He played against a king's, like, you know, small, but like. So it's a weird, there's a real dynamic in, like when you're Denver and rebuilding, you know, you may see the world differently, than you're Denver and good now. So what's the point of getting the kind

that's not going to get in the rotation? But he's got an amazing ceiling. This is all about, when you get good in the NBA, go for it. We've seen this in the NFL. The Rams did it. They were really good. Jalen Ramsey, Whitworth, Cop.

They were good with Jared Goff. They said, we want to win a Super Bowl. Because of the injuries in the NFL, when you're good, go for it. When the rookies on the rookie deal, go for it. There's a real aggressive nature to NFL acquisitions. Does that surprise you that nobody's going for it with Dalvin Cook? I'm shocked that he's still on the...

No, because he's a running back. I am surprised that DeAndre Hopkins, I think the New England thing is a perfect fit. Wait, that was last week, wasn't it? Or was it this week? It feels, they don't have a number one. So the Titans, he visited with them, he visited with the Patriots, and there's... Did you hear Tennessee made him fly on Southwest Airlines? No. That's what I read.

That's what the inner web said. I don't believe it. Wow. So I didn't. In the NBA, they'll fly you in a town car to the facility for a workout. Then the leak to the media. Yeah, he worked out for us a second time. And everybody's like, oh, he's going there.

You could do that for a smoke screen. It costs you a couple hundred bucks. You're telling me an NFL team's flying DeAndre Hopkins. No, I'm telling you, I saw it on the inner web. And it could have been one of those new blue checks with like seven followers. Oh, right, right, right. But I went down a rabbit hole and I saw it. And I was like...

By the way, do you ever fly Southwest? Yes. Oh, really? What's wrong with Southwest? A fine airline. Ryan, do you fly? I need structure. I need like, hey, it's your turn to board.

Well, I'm a Delta flyer mostly because our family has like miles and stuff. Right, right, right. But yeah, if I've... It just feels like a bit of a mob scene. Everybody's just crushing to get in. I don't love it. Well, it is a little bit of that. You know, I once sat next to an ex-con on a Southwest flight.

Was he wearing handcuffs? I was sitting in the seat here and he was staring at me. Like, you know, those. seats at the beginning of the plane they used to have, like benches, and you would sit and stare at somebody. Wait, what was this? Like the 70s? I was flying out of Sacramento and he just got out of prison and he wouldn't stop drinking and I couldn't wait to land. Wait, how did you know he got out of prison? Because he told me. And he was quite proud of it. And I wanted to get off the flight immediately. And he kept yelling at the way the stewardess, get me another beer. And I'm like,

yeah. I didn't ask why he was in prison. I just left it at he had been in prison. Like just got out. Were they, they were allowing smoking on planes back then? No, that was 1989, no. 19. You remember when you flew in. No, I remember looking it up once. In 1989, you could bring out a, you know, a stick and knock it out on a plane.

Can you imagine that? On a plane, I'm reading the paper, and you got a rocket over there, catches fire. It's a crazy what we allowed in the 80s. It's nuts. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week. within the IHeart Radio app. Search Her to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest

moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what we? went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. And, yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you own the day in sports? You make incredible plays. How do you own the rest of your day with Irish Spring? When the spring hit you, be ready to own the day. Look for Irish Spring or local retailer today. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. It's funny we were just talking about D'Andre Hopkins, and the first story here is he's still a free agent after the visits with Titans and Patriots yesterday. Hopkins, perhaps, I don't know,

feeling like a little like I need to go somewhere, tweeted out a message for his potential new teammates. Whoever's in my future wide receiver group, I promise I will make your job easy. What do you make of that? Sounds like a guy who is not really wanted and he is not feeling the love and he's trying to sell himself to prospective employers.

You know, there was some questions about he didn't want to practice a lot in Arizona because of the injury history. I don't know, maybe it sounds like he, nobody's really, there's not really a huge market for him. I'm stunned, Colin. DeAndre Hopkins, this guy was like a top 10 receiver for, what, the last three years before last year? Like, he was a really good receiver and nobody wants him.

I contacted an NFL team when the news came out. He was leaving. And I contacted the general manager. And I said, what do you make of him? And he said, the GM said to me, his personality doesn't fit our guys. So I don't know, D. Hop. I've seen him once the UFC fight. It was very nice, very engaging.

Is he viewed? Do you view him as high maintenance? I don't know well enough, but pretty clearly, there's some rumors about something. that he's saying, I'll make your job easy, that he's trying to, like, sell himself. I don't know. That's not great. I think he's really good. I don't, he's an interesting player.

He's more of a playmaker than he is a burner. Like, he's just, but Jerry Rice was, you know. He's a possession guy at this stage in his career. But I think he's a big play guy. Good catch radius, you know? Like, like, he's a playmaker. I mean, he'll make plays. He's not going to run past people.

But there's like, there's not that many guys that can do that. You've got two good receivers. And DeAndrere Hopkins is your number three guy. I think you're in great shape. Oh, he's not a three. he's a two or a one. He's a one on New England. If he's a one or a two,

he is. Somebody would have offered him a contract. I mean, now there's also a chatter that he wants O'Dell Beckham money. Beckham got overpaid. There's not that many teams. There's about seven teams, I think, in the league right now, who have maybe $15 million cap space. I mean, there's a couple.

Rams have 10. And are you spending it on DeAndre? That's what I'm saying is it's more of a money issue. I think people like him, but... You would have to sell your owner and head coach. Hey, he's going to be. put us from like six, seven wins to maybe nine, ten. And I don't know that you can make an argument that Hopkins is putting you into the playoffs. Isn't it interesting though? Like Stefan Diggs is all

getting all worked up and I like him. But it is, it is interesting. All these years later, the most outspoken player is often the wide receiver. And I think they're the divas. Well, I think it's the first player to break the huddle. It's the basketball player in a football league. A lot of it is based on you beating somebody. You know, whereas a quarterback needs a left tackle, needs support, needs a run game, needs protection. You know, wide receiver, you break the huddle

first, and a lot of times, it's just like, it's mono-o-mano, throw me the ball. Beat your guy. Get open. And, you know, Odell Beckham got a shoe deal like a NBA player. So it's a unique position where individual talent, you don't necessarily need support from a lot of other

players, go make a play guy. You know, running backs as good as his own line. A quarterback's as good as his protection. I'll say, though, all the good receivers coming out of college now, kind of make these guys who are turning 28, 29, 30. Like, you know, Wilson and Olavé both were awesome as rookies out of Ohio State. I mean, we saw Justin Jefferson a couple years ago. I was told next year's draft.

You know, this year's draft was seen as there was literally like eight great players. I'm told next year's draft is the best draft in half a decade. It is completely stacked. So the two quarterbacks, Marvin Harrison, obviously. A lot of people think there's two more quarterbacks to get at Washington. Penix? He's got an injury history. I know, but he's good. That arm is live, yeah.

All right, next story, the NBA. Phoenix Suns obviously completed their deal for Bradley Beale, but according to SNY's Ian Beggley, Phoenix contacted the Mavs, the Mavs, about a sign and trade for Kyrie Irving before the Bradley Beale deal. It's unclear why negotiations fell apart. Where did this leak from? This is S-N-Y's Ian Begley.

He's been around a while. I don't know. I mean, what has reached out mean? You know, maybe that DeAndre Adenbiel. Everybody reaches out all the time to people. Hey, what's your latest? But you got to, Kyrie Irving's not coming as cheap as Bradley Beal was. Who would you take Bradley Beal or Kyrie Irving?

Well, time out. It's the trade. They gave up Landry Shamit, Chris Paul, who they were going to wave, remember? Do you know what? And like second round picks. That's nothing. That is one. And that's Washington made a mistake.

The previous GMs. Well, the previous GMs. Now let's just be nice. But it was they gave up, basically Beale had veto power. Because I don't want to go there. So they were trapped. If you look at teams that end up overachieving or winning titles, if you go back to their history, I wonder if there's a deal or two.

Remember when the Celtics took the Brooklyn Nets for a total ride, on the KG stuff. That's right. By the way, you could argue Oklahoma City took the Clippers for a ride to get SGA. If you go back and look what they got. Clippers have struggled. People keep putting out the trade, the Paul George, like what the return was. And it's like Paul George, and that's like 14 players and future picks.

And Oklahoma City is perceived as keep your eye on him. I think we're going to look at Phoenix, getting Bradley Beale, and getting out of Chris Paul. Who they were going to get out of anyway? I think this is going to end up all the questions about Phoenix. They're going to be able, if they move DeAndre Aidan and get two players, this team's going to end up being sensational next year. The problem is there's a clear hierarchy. The Nuggets and the Suns are very far ahead of whoever you want to put three in the West. You and I agree on that.

Whether it's the Warriors or LeBron's Lakers. So now it's like those teams, they've got to do something. I don't think the Warriors could just try to run a back column. You can't. But what can you do? I don't know how I'm getting sad for Steph Curry. They have to make a big play.

I don't know what it is right now. I think they're going to draft somebody who can play. A three-year college guy who can play. And is that putting them in the stratosphere of Denver? No, but I think Mike Dunley, I think you have. Hold on. Denver swept the Lakers and the Lakers humbled the Warriors.

Yeah, it wasn't. They blew them out. Disappointing. Final story, the Miami Heat, they had that Cinderella run to the NBA Finals as the East 8 seed. Ended up losing in the finals in five. Some believe Miami would be making big changes this offseason. Pat Riley says, not so fast, my friend.

We're not going to take a wrecking ball to this thing. Hitting the home run, as I said, it's addition by subtraction. And I plan on hitting big again, but I'm not just swinging for the fences right now because it could be reckless. We're working now on our fifth iteration, if I can use that word, of building another championship team. And that's my goal. I have no other plans other than to do that.

I don't love Riles. I mean, how good is he? Just the fifth time since he's been there, they're building a championship level team. They've lost Shaq, they've lost Wade, they've lost LeBron, and he keeps doing it. Like there's, again, the gap between your Sean Payton's and Andy Reid's and your gap between your Pat Riley's,

I mean, it's really remarkable what he has done. love the story about Riley. Anytime he walks into a prospective free agent, first thing he does, puts the rings on the table. Just puts them on the table. It's all it's about. I've got rings. A lot of them. All it's about. And continuity matters. Have you ever seen him in

person? No. He is in I don't know how old Pat Riley is. Good shape. They just don't. That, he is the model of what you should look like. He is living the good life in South Florida. He looks, I guess he's 70, 72. He looks

Unbelievable. He also has a house out here at Malibu. Okay, time out. He's 78. I've never seen a guy look that good at 78. I'm dead serious. I saw him when he was 75 or 76. My wife and I were like, man, he looks good.

All those guys, if you're old in South Beach, you've got to be in shape, right? Well, it's just a great life. I'm going to be sitting out there shoveling snow. Oh, hell, shoveling snow. When was the last time you shoveled snow? I did it. Well, I was out of, in college I did. Well, I mean, I lived in warm.

Oh, yeah, Park City two winters ago or so. No, I mean, but I lived in Vegas out of college, then Florida. And Portland didn't really get snow. So I basically lived in warm weather. I would say shoveled snow. There was one weekend in Portland where we got a storm and I had to shovel snow. That's no fun. It's not good.

I know it puts hair on your chest and makes you tough, but. You know, in Pennsylvania, we owned a snowblower and a generator. Like, looking back on that time, I was like, what, that just, it just was not fun. I'm sorry. I don't have right now. I don't have a coat. I don't have a winter jacket either. That's like my flex to my friends who are like, how's California?

I'm like, I don't own a winter jacket. I don't need one. I do like gloves. I like wear gloves if it's like 40, you know? Didn't need to know that, but I do appreciate the intel. I like a good winter hat. You like a beanie too, right? Yeah, yeah, of course.

Look. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. What do you get when you combine a three-time manager of the year at a three-time national sports writer of the year? It's The Book of Joe podcast. Hey, this is Tom Verducci from Fox Sports, MLB Network, and Sports Illustrated.

And I'm Joe Madden, and we're going to be around to talk a little bit about managerial decisions, playoff games, and what may have occurred in the dugout, maybe in the 1980s. I can't wait for this, Joe. We're going to dive into what goes on in the dugout and behind the scenes in Major League Baseball. Cars, whined, whatever else we want to talk about. Listen to the Booker Joe podcast on the Iheart radio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that, George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So just to show you how hard the NBA draft is, of the last 10 number. number one picks. Anthony Bennett bust. Mark L. Fultz bust. Zion pending. Ben Simmons, at this point, it's a bust. So three busts and Zion Williamson trending toward really

discouraging. Andrew Wiggins has been a good player, finally. DeAndre Aiton is the fourth best player on his team. But like, if you go back to that Markle Fultz pick, sure, he hasn't done much. What makes it even worse is Jason Tatum went third. And he's like an all-N-NBA guy, a franchise guy, like a top seven player in the league. And then even, you know, in that draft, Lonzo Ball went second. But Lonzo Ball didn't do anything. How about this? Fourth, Josh Jackson. He's not, I don't even think he's in the league. Deere and Fox was fifth. Like, NBA draft is a major crapshoot. So this is the number one pick. The last NFL bust, number one was Jamarcus Russell, and the coach didn't want him. The scouts didn't want him. Al Davis did.

Baker Mayfield's not a bust, but he wasn't very, he wasn't very bad. We got to the play. He won a playoff game. Not a bust, but he was, you know, he, in a tough division, he won a playoff game. Can't be a bust. But Anthony Bennett's a total bust. Fultz is a bust. Ben Simmons, I don't know what you say about him.

He made all NBA once, but he's a disaster. He'd screwed teams up. Yeah. Zion Williamson's not a bust, but. Well, okay, fine. For NFL. And this is the number one. Okay. Kyler Murray went number one. Doesn't have a playoff win.

bust. No, he's not. Oh my goodness. We're already talking about his team drafting a quarterback number one next year. He's her best player. That ain't saying much. They were the worst, one of the worst teams in the league. They made the playoffs. Two years ago and got smoked by the Rams. Hold up. I can't say Jared Goff. Jared Goff said well. James Winston. It's not a bust. James Winston was a, won a ton of games. He won a bunch of games.

Is that the barometer for bust? Well, James Winston was through picks. but he threw for a race. Has he appeared in a playoff game? He's not a bust. You can't start in the NFL for six years at quarterback and be a bust. We call Christian Leitner a bust in the NBA. He played like 10 years. Avers like a double double for seven years. No, I don't think Christian Leitner's a bust. That's wrong. Christian Leitner was not as good as we thought he's not.

This is a good discussion. How do you quantify a bust? Jamarcus Russell's how I quantify it. It's good. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.